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Biggest birther story of the year

It is possible, I suppose, that the rotting corpse of Bob Nelson lies undiscovered somewhere in the forests of North Carolina and that is the explanation of why the Birther Report web site has had no new articles since September 16. Perhaps there’s just no money in the birther Internet anymore. Here’s a poll here as to what you think is the biggest birther story of the year, but whichever you select, BR has ignored it:

What is the biggest birther story of 2016?

  • Former birther Donald Trump elected president (48%, 46 Votes)
  • Donald Trump states categorically that Barack Obama was born in the US (19%, 18 Votes)
  • Birther Sheriff Joe Arpaio defeated in re-election bid (17%, 16 Votes)
  • Zullo announces final news conference and proof that Obama's birth certificate is a forgery (17%, 16 Votes)

Total Voters: 96

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Each of those stories has a significant impact on the birthers. On the negative side Donald Trump’s renunciation of birtherism (and his claim that he personally finished the controversy) removes one great hope of the birthers—that the federal government under a Trump administration will make the investigation of the former president’s birth certificate a high priority. Likewise the defeat of Joe Arpaio in his re-election bid and the statement from the sheriff-elect that the birth certificate investigation in Maricopa County will be shut down, ends the last quasi-official inquiry into the matter.

While Donald Trump has renounced birtherism, he still promises to achieve something that the birthers crave, the dismantling of what the Obama administration did. This is as close to the magic reset button as the birthers will get. It looks pretty certain that ObamaCare will be replaced by Trump[I don’t]Care and executive policy on immigration is likely to be reversed.  The big hope, however, still comes from Mike Zullo who has promised “gut-wrenching” revelations (words Zullo used in 2014) and the culmination of all the Cold Case Posse’s work. Sheriff Arpaio himself says that the results of the investigation will be packaged and presented to the new administration.

172 Responses to Biggest birther story of the year

  1. avatar
    Scientist December 2, 2016 at 1:21 pm #

    I voted Trump’s election because its historical importance dwarfs anything birther, which will be a footnote in history. Nevertheless I recognize the importance of Trump’s pretending to be a birther in mobilizing the people he needed to win the Republican nomination.

  2. avatar
    Loren December 2, 2016 at 2:32 pm #

    I would contend that Zullo “announcing” a press conference isn’t news at all. Only after such a presentation actually HAPPENS will it even qualify as remotely newsworthy.

  3. avatar
    bob December 2, 2016 at 3:19 pm #

    Loren:
    I would contend that Zullo “announcing” a press conference isn’t news at all. Only after such a presentation actually HAPPENS will it even qualify as remotely newsworthy.

    I would countercontend that birtherism is so dead that Zullo merely announcing a news conference is one the more noteworthy events that happened in birtherstan this year.

  4. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich December 2, 2016 at 3:19 pm #

    I’m with Scientist, Trump’s election is the birther story of the year because it means the birthers won in the end. Most of the good that has been done by Obama over 8 years will be undone by Trump in 4. One step forward, two steps back.

  5. avatar
    Scientist December 2, 2016 at 3:27 pm #

    Comrade Fogovich:
    I’m with Scientist, Trump’s election is the birther story of the year because it means the birthers won in the end. Most of the good that has been done by Obama over 8 years will be undone by Trump in 4. One step forward, two steps back.

    I think it will prove harder than all that to undo Obama’s accomplishments. The Republicans can’t just repeal the ACA and throw 20 million off health insurance until they have a replacement, which they will never be able to come up with. The Iran deal can’t be undone, because the other countries will never re-impose sanctions. The Paris climate accords can’t be abrogated so easily when 200 countries have signed it-it would lead to boycotts of US companies, who would put pressure on Trump.

    DACA can be cancelled, but realistically Trump’s immigration policy will not be that different from Obama’s-focus deportations on criminal aliens. I suspect the numbers that Trump deports will be similar to Obama’s.

  6. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG. December 2, 2016 at 4:27 pm #

    I’m wondering if Trump is gonna finish his first term. This is speculative on my part, but he’s not going to enjoy a job where he can’t get his way all the time.

  7. avatar
    Curious George December 2, 2016 at 7:08 pm #

    The news event of the year was Donald Trump announcing that President Obama is a U.S. citizen. No matter how Zullo tried to spin Trump’s announcement, it became the wooden T driven deep into the heart of birtherism. Now prepare for the last gasp of life for birtherism on December 15, 2016. I hope Miki wears black to the event.

  8. avatar
    Rickey December 2, 2016 at 7:36 pm #

    Scientist: I think it will prove harder than all that to undo Obama’s accomplishments.The Republicans can’t just repeal the ACA and throw 20 million off health insurance until they have a replacement, which they will never be able to come up with.

    There are already reports of vulnerable Republican Senators who fear a backlash at the polls in 2018 if they take away insurance from millions of voters. House Republicans, most of whom have safe seats because of gerrymandering, will likely pass a repeal, but it getting it past a Democratic filibuster will be difficult even if there are 50 Republican Senators willing to vote for it.

  9. avatar
    Northland10 December 2, 2016 at 8:26 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG.:
    I’m wondering if Trump is gonna finish his first term. This is speculative on my part, but he’s not going to enjoy a job where he can’t get his way all the time.

    I have wondered about that. I think it was FDR who once referred to Federal Government as a giant beast. You kick it in the ass and the head doesn’t feel it for another 2 years.

    I suspect his appointees will also be very short term. High level government service is rough even in the best of times, as reflected in the high level of turnover in White House and cabinet posts. I don’t know if some of these folks understand what awaits them.

    At minimum, I would be rather surprised if he ran for a second term.

  10. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 2, 2016 at 8:45 pm #

    Northland10: At minimum, I would be rather surprised if he ran for a second term.

    His diet, combined with his age and the stress of the job are also factors I’m looking at.

  11. avatar
    Keith December 2, 2016 at 9:22 pm #

    Yeah, I go with the election too.

    A more useful poll, IMHO, would be placing bets on the under/over for an impeachment conviction.

    Over or under 28 months?

  12. avatar
    vladimir putin December 3, 2016 at 7:35 am #

    Trump jui jitsued the untrusted msm to make the birther issue go *poof* and pretty much disappear during the campaign. Once Trump is sworn in he will have vast federal power, and joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

    It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

  13. avatar
    Cody Judy December 3, 2016 at 10:18 am #

    SNL might have nailed it at 4m14s Mike Pence walks in

    https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=oRD03w6cBxI

    Illegal Immigration Act – scrap it
    Obamacare Repeal- Scrap it -Obamacare-Keep it
    Hillary in Jail- Scrap it
    ” oh and Mike, you’re going to do everything right?”

    Politico ran an Article saying
    [ Congressional Republicans are setting up their own, self-imposed deadline to make good on their vow to replace the Affordable Care Act. With buy-in from Donald Trump’s transition team, GOP leaders on both sides of the Capitol are coalescing around a plan to vote to repeal the law in early 2017 — but delay the effective date for that repeal for as long as three years]

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/obamacare-republicans-repeal-replace-232025

    3 years to Repeal it? It took less than 2 years to build it. They didn’t even have time to read it, remember? Nancy Pelosi “we have to pass it so you can find out what is in it”

    https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=-y_ee68SklE

    https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=tqBl0lpLUp8

    Either two things will happen. Trump will provide an Executive Order delaying companies from actually paying into it as Obama did in his 2014 waiver favors for 50(-)(+) employee companies

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/oct/03/news/la-ol-obamacare-waivers-exemptions-hyperbole-20131002

    25% Hike 2016 as waivers wear off?
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-24/obamacare-benchmark-premiums-to-rise-25-in-sharpest-jump-yet

    OR, Trump will throw down in Ineligibility gauntlet and declare Obama’s Signiture Moot with his Bully Pulpit sending cold chills down Congresses back.

    Three years to phase it out won’t cut it with The Base that Elected him., especially with Dems passing it so quickly.

    Trump’s a Builder. I’m not sure he’s wired for a 3 year meltdown. , but if he throws his hands up and says “Keep it” , he’ll be the one Termer Obama never was.

    Leverage is KEY and it will be interesting to see which way this goes.

    So far the SNL and Liberal Progressive Crowd is seen out-of-touch with reality in 2016.

    It was interesting Doc called the first choice Trump’s denial of Birtherism -“former Birther Donald Trump” , I wonder what is the label for the whole qualification going to be?

    Born in the U.S. to Citizen Parents- ie. Natural Born Citizen

    I guess anti- Birthers now have separated the soil and parental heritage as well as the tack to Birtherism so many insinuated just a month ago as Islamophobia?

    Hope you sent the Memo Doc to all the MSM!

    Oh yeah, now Trump’s anot official “Former Birther” here, he’s not Racist anymore either in the minds of all here right?

    😊 Gosh, Islamophobia and Racism conquered in a single 2 min press conference amazing. It’s almost like there wasn’t enough evidence to support Birthers as any of those in the first place.

    I tell you this last CCP National Presser could be good, especially if Trump hops on board to scare the willies out of Congress.

    I say it could eclipse anything we’ve seen yet!

  14. avatar
    JD Reed December 3, 2016 at 3:00 pm #

    Still living in your own alternate reality, eh, Vodu?

  15. avatar
    JD Reed December 3, 2016 at 3:41 pm #

    I thought I had corrected this to Cody, from Vodu. I don’t know what happened.

  16. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG. December 3, 2016 at 4:27 pm #

    Trump Regrets is my new favorite thing on Tumblr!
    https://trumpgrets.tumblr.com/

    Schadenfreude, sweet sweet schadenfreude.

  17. avatar
    bob December 3, 2016 at 4:47 pm #

    Always a chuckle when ex-con Judy hectors on about who is out of touch with reality.

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 3, 2016 at 5:29 pm #

    So was Trump lying when he said that he had doubts about where Obama was born, or when he said he had no doubts about where Obama was born, or neither, or both?

    In any case, given Trump’s total lack of honesty across the board, predicting what he will do doesn’t make a lot of sense at this point.

    vladimir putin: Once Trump is sworn in he will have vast federal power, and joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

  19. avatar
    Arthur B. December 3, 2016 at 5:42 pm #

    vladimir putin: joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

    Yeah, he’s a regular Geraldo.

  20. avatar
    Northland10 December 3, 2016 at 9:56 pm #

    vladimir putin:
    Once Trump is sworn in he will have vast federal power, and joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

    And there goes the 10th Amendment.

    States’ rights are great, until their not.

  21. avatar
    JD Reed December 3, 2016 at 10:04 pm #

    vladimir putin:
    Trump jui jitsued the untrusted msm to make the birther issue go *poof* and pretty much disappear during the campaign. Once Trump is sworn in he will have vast federal power, and joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

    It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

    Vlad, so patriotic of you to adopt as your screen name the autocratic ruler of a country historically unfriendly to America.
    But putting aside your man-crush, your fond hope that Trump can and will send Arpaio into the Hawaiian record vaults is about as realistic as hoping the Cleveland Browns win the Super Bowl, this season. You and other birthers have been used; you’re the equivalent of a one-night stand. Even if he were so inclined, which he is not, Trump will not have the vast power to send someone into the Hawaii vaults; the courts would see to that.

    vladimir putin:
    Trump jui jitsued the untrusted msm to make the birther issue go *poof* and pretty much disappear during the campaign. Once Trump is sworn in he will have vast federal power, and joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

    It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

    vladimir putin:
    Trump jui jitsued the untrusted msm to make the birther issue go *poof* and pretty much disappear during the campaign. Once Trump is sworn in he will have vast federal power, and joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

    It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

    vladimir putin:
    Trump jui jitsued the untrusted msm to make the birther issue go *poof* and pretty much disappear during the campaign. Once Trump is sworn in he will have vast federal power, and joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

    It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

  22. avatar
    trader jack December 4, 2016 at 4:30 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    So was Trump lying when he said that he had doubts about where Obama was born, or when he said he had no doubts about where Obama was born, or neither, or both?

    In any case, given Trump’s total lack of honesty across the board, predicting what he will do doesn’t make a lot of sense at this point.

    All things will remain the same if we have the same type of liars in the whitehouse.

    If you believe Trump has a total lack of honesty then you must know that when he said that BHO was born Forthe USA he was lying and yet you agreed with him.

    they all lie and we believe the lies that we want to believe, and don’t believe anything that conflicts with what we believe.

    How anyone can believe a politician running for office amazes me.

    I never believed that Obamacare would save the people money, it would save some people some money, cause others to pay more , and result in poorer medical service for most.

    For instance a big pension fund like CalPers could take the insurance charges and set up something like Kaiser for their employee and make money at it.

  23. avatar
    Curious George December 4, 2016 at 12:33 pm #

    vladimir putin:
    Trump jui jitsued the untrusted msm to make the birther issue go *poof* and pretty much disappear during the campaign. Once Trump is sworn in he will have vast federal power, and joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

    It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

    You’re in for a rude awakening on December 15, 2016. It will be over when Miki cries when she hears the results of the investimagination. It’s tough being suckered.

  24. avatar
    J.D. Sue December 4, 2016 at 12:55 pm #

    vladimir putin: carte blanche


    i gotta say, years ago I never thought I’d see the day when johnny birchers would be making love to a better-dead-than-red kgb agent like Putin.

    Now, I like to imagine Roy Cohn’s anguished ghost tormenting Trump’s otherwise fantastic dreams.

  25. avatar
    Joey December 4, 2016 at 2:51 pm #

    vladimir putin:
    Trump jui jitsued the untrusted msm to make the birther issue go *poof* and pretty much disappear during the campaign. Once Trump is sworn in he will have vast federal power, and joe arpaio will be given carte blanche to take his investigation into the hawaii vaults.

    It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

    The fat lady sang in 2013 when the five year federal Statute of Limitations ran out.

  26. avatar
    Joey December 4, 2016 at 2:54 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —
    i gotta say, years ago I never thought I’d see the day when johnny birchers would be making love to a better-dead-than-red kgb agent like Putin.

    Now, I like to imagine Roy Cohn’s anguished ghost tormenting Trump’s otherwise fantastic dreams.

    There’s really very little distinction between extreme leftists and extreme rightists. Putin was a Soviet KGB officer and his namesake posting here probably admired the KGB for keeping “order” in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 4, 2016 at 2:56 pm #

    I have never decided whether I think that Trump was never a birther, stopped being a birther or still is a birther.

    trader jack: If you believe Trump has a total lack of honesty then you must know that when he said that BHO was born Forthe USA he was lying and yet you agreed with him.

  28. avatar
    Joey December 4, 2016 at 3:22 pm #

    trader jack: All things will remain the same if we have the same type of liars in the whitehouse.

    If you believe Trump has a total lack of honesty then you must know that when he said that BHO was born Forthe USA he was lying and yet you agreed with him.

    they all lie and we believe the lies that we want to believe, and don’t believe anything that conflicts with what we believe.

    How anyone can believe apolitician running for office amazes me.

    I never believed that Obamacare would save the people money, it would save some people some money, cause others to pay more , and result in poorer medical service for most.

    For instance a big pension fund like CalPerscouldtake the insurance charges and set up something like Kaiserfor their employee and make money at it.

    The only difference between politicians and every other human being is that politicians who are running for national offices have every statement they make being broadcast, cablecast, published and analyzed.
    One person’s “lie” is another person’s “misstatement” is another person’s “mis-remembrance” (as George W. Bush said).
    The examples that Traitor Jack provides are not examples of lies but rather examples of political opinions and beliefs where others have different political opinions and different beliefs.
    Beng a birther, Traitor Jack isn’t intelligent enough to have figured that out.

  29. avatar
    Arthur B. December 4, 2016 at 4:33 pm #

    trader jack: If you believe Trump has a total lack of honesty then you must know that when he said that BHO was born Forthe USA he was lying and yet you agreed with him.

    A “total lack of honesty”? Now you’re just being silly. Situations in which someone can be assumed to be either 100% truthful or 100% mendacious occur only in logic puzzles. It’s not how the real world works.

    Trump’s lying can be tracked on sites like PolitiFact, which reports that 70% of his claims rate as “Mostly False,” “False”, or “Pants on Fire.” (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/)

    That’s a pathetic record, but it does not mean that the truth is invariably the opposite of what he says.

  30. avatar
    Scientist December 4, 2016 at 6:24 pm #

    trader jack: I never believed that Obamacare would save the people money, it would save some people some money, cause others to pay more , and result in poorer medical service for most.

    It’s made no difference in medical service to anyone. Period. The doctors I go to have the same 3 year old magazines in their waiting rooms that they had before. How do they manage that? Do they contract with publishers to always be 3 years behind the current issue.

  31. avatar
    Rickey December 4, 2016 at 6:38 pm #

    trader jack:

    I never believed that Obamacare would save the people money, it would save some people some money, cause others to pay more , and result in poorer medical service for most.

    Actually, it has saved people money.

    In 2008, the average employer-sponsored family plan cost a total of $12,680, with employees footing $3,354 of the bill, according to Kaiser data. By 2016, the cost of the average employer family plan was up to $18,142 for the year, with workers picking up $5,277 of the tab.

    These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006).

    http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/

    Poorer medical service for most? What evidence do you have for that?

  32. avatar
    vladimir putin December 4, 2016 at 8:11 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So was Trump lying when

    Since you pass on judging whether obama is honest or not it’s hardly appropriate to judge Trump.

    Joey: The fat lady sang in 2013 when the five year federal Statute of Limitations ran out.

    If the PDF is a forgery, it’s on the federal servers today so the five year clock on the use of federal property to perpetrate a forgery refreshes. Ditto for tomorrow. You don’t get to perpetuate criminal conduct because you started five years ago.

    JD Reed: Trump will not have the vast power to send someone into the Hawaii vaults; the courts would see to that

    Federal crimes are under federal jurisdiction, and the DOJ and FBI can get into that vault any time they see fit to get a grand jury to issue subpoenas and search warrants. We can agree that Trump’s DOJ and FBI will probably have different enthusiasms and commitments than Obama’s DOJ and FBI, hmmm?

    vladimir putin: It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

    I ain’t saying that Arpaio will prove forgery or not. All I’m saying is that Trump will let him investigate the matter to his heart’s content because Trump has a political debt to pay for Arpaio’s support, and the thin-skinned Trump will want to get the last laugh on obama, who saw fit to mock Trump’s “birtherism” at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner.

    That’s all I’m sayin’.

  33. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 4, 2016 at 8:16 pm #

    Arpaio can investigate to his heart’s content because America is a free country; however, when he does it, he will not be sheriff of Maricopa County, and even Trump couldn’t get an Arpaio nomination to some official position through the Senate.

    vladimir putin: All I’m saying is that Trump will let him investigate the matter to his heart’s content because Trump has a political debt to pay for Arpaio’s support,

  34. avatar
    vladimir putin December 4, 2016 at 8:18 pm #

    J.D. Sue: i gotta say, years ago I never thought I’d see the day when johnny birchers would be making love to a better-dead-than-red kgb agent like Putin

    What, only one person in the world gets to be named vladimir putin?! You’re very insensitive.

  35. avatar
    vladimir putin December 4, 2016 at 8:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: he will not be sheriff of Maricopa County, and even Trump couldn’t get an Arpaio nomination

    Arpaio won’t be Sheriff, and Arpaio won’t be nominated for anything. He’ll just get the starring role in the investigation he’s been seeking for years.

    You, Doc, should be happiest of all. An honest investigation by the FBI/DOJ will surely prove all the points you’ve been making all these years, regardless of how the birthers react.

    Congratulations in advance.

  36. avatar
    roadburner December 4, 2016 at 8:24 pm #

    vladimir putin:

    If the PDF is a forgery, it’s on the federal servers today so the five year clock on the use of federal property to perpetrate a forgery refreshes. Ditto for tomorrow. You don’t get to perpetuate criminal conduct because you started five years ago.

    you mean to say that after all this time you don’t know the difference between an online image and a signed and sealed hard copy document, and the fact that the state of Hawaii does not issue BC’s in PDF format?

    *facepalms

  37. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 4, 2016 at 8:43 pm #

    vladimir putin: If the PDF is a forgery, it’s on the federal servers today so the five year clock on the use of federal property to perpetrate a forgery refreshes. Ditto for tomorrow. You don’t get to perpetuate criminal conduct because you started five years ago.

    You’re an idiot. The PDF is a digital document. It’s not the birth certificate. It’s a scan. That’s like claiming because someone has a picture of a 5 dollar bill that them posting a picture online was them forging a 5 dollar bill. Seriously return your computer.

  38. avatar
    trader jack December 4, 2016 at 8:51 pm #

    Rickey: Actually, it has saved people money.

    In 2008, the average employer-sponsored family plan cost a total of $12,680, with employees footing $3,354 of the bill, according to Kaiser data. By 2016, the cost of the average employer family plan was up to $18,142 for the year, with workers picking up $5,277 of the tab.

    These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006).

    http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/

    Poorer medical service for most? What evidence do you have for that

    If everyone who did not have to have insurance had to buy insurance, did not their spendable income go down?

    when they went to the er , there was not a deductible either, was there?

    You think that because the employer had to pay the premium , that the employee did not lose money?

    posting by anon”
    AnonymousMay 23, 2016
    As if we could not see this coming. Government (corrupt idiots) shakes hands with insurance companies (corrupt administridiots) on behalf of providers (sacrificial lambs) opens the floodgates for people that have not received routine care and preventative services for – oh on average (not evidence based) 30-40 years – then wonders why it all falls apart because the Government under financed the entire plan to the Insurance companies (who were all to happy to sign on to get the free government money – until it all back fired and the flood of people actually utilized their “benefits”). All the while providers who thought this might actually be something more than government diverting money that should go to provide care — to the big business insurance companies. We would love to provide care to these people, but ahem — may need to actually pay their employees in order to stay in practice. But oops forgot that part – providers might actually have to fund their own existence. Alas — did anyone see this coming — aside from me – a poor pitiful independent provider getting shafted by the “big business” of medicine that seems to include paying out to everything and everyone EXCEPT those that actually do the work of providing care.. Just a few thoughts.

    http://medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/medical-economics/news/insurers-leave-obamacare-exchanges-doctors-pay-price.

    Did you also consider the before the got the treatment paid for they had to pay the first $2,500 deductible or higher?

  39. avatar
    Northland10 December 4, 2016 at 8:56 pm #

    roadburner: you mean to say that after all this time you don’t know the difference between an online image and a signed and sealed hard copy document, and the fact that the state of Hawaii does not issue BC’s in PDF format?

    He did manage to get one thing right.

    vladimir putin: and the thin-skinned Trump

    He does appear to recognize that Trumps actions are, in part, caused by his really thin-skin.

    Unfortunately, elected office is not kind to those with thin skin.

  40. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG. December 4, 2016 at 9:16 pm #

    I’m done arguing with idiots like vlad. The lot of them can eat static, or better yet, whatever is under the sink.

  41. avatar
    JD Reed December 4, 2016 at 9:53 pm #

    vladimir putin: Since you pass on judging whether obama is honest or not it’s hardly appropriate to judge Trump.

    If the PDF is a forgery, it’s on the federal servers today so the five year clock on the use of federal property to perpetrate a forgery refreshes. Ditto for tomorrow. You don’t get to perpetuate criminal conduct because you started five years ago.

    Federal crimes are under federal jurisdiction, and the DOJ and FBI can get into that vault any time they see fit to get a grand jury to issue subpoenas and search warrants. We can agree that Trump’s DOJ and FBI will probably have different enthusiasms and commitments than Obama’s DOJ and FBI, hmmm?

    I ain’t saying that Arpaio will prove forgery or not. All I’m saying is that Trump will let him investigate the matter to his heart’s content because Trump has a political debt to pay for Arpaio’s support, and the thin-skinned Trump will want to get the last laugh on obama, who saw fit to mock Trump’s “birtherism” at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner.

    That’s all I’m sayin’.

    No, they cannot just waltz into the Hawaiian vaults any time they please. A court would block such a hare-brained attempt, and that would be that. But Trump’s through with all that; birthers have served their purpose.
    As for the notion that someone has no right to judge Trump, there’s no need to, he’s already been accurately judged by the Washington Post’s Fact Checker, among others. At last count to my knowledge, Trump had 60 pants-on-fire awards,

  42. avatar
    JD Reed December 4, 2016 at 9:58 pm #

    Rickey: Actually, it has saved people money.

    In 2008, the average employer-sponsored family plan cost a total of $12,680, with employees footing $3,354 of the bill, according to Kaiser data. By 2016, the cost of the average employer family plan was up to $18,142 for the year, with workers picking up $5,277 of the tab.

    These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006).

    http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/

    Poorer medical service for most? What evidence do you have for that?

    Trader don’t need no stinkin’ evidence!

  43. avatar
    JD Reed December 4, 2016 at 10:26 pm #

    JD Reed: “If the PDF is a forgery …” — Vladimer Putin.

    Playing the devil’s advocate for a moment, let’s assume (against all credible evidence) that the PDF is a fake, it wasn’t used to falsely certify Obama’s eligibility to be listed on any state’s ballot. Its only
    use would have been to convey false information to the voters. If presenting false information to the public is a crime, I don’t have the higher math skills to calculate how many years in jail Mr. Trmp’s 60 pants-on-fire falsehoods would warrant!

  44. avatar
    Joey December 4, 2016 at 10:55 pm #

    vladimir putin: Since you pass on judging whether obama is honest or not it’s hardly appropriate to judge Trump.

    If the PDF is a forgery, it’s on the federal servers today so the five year clock on the use of federal property to perpetrate a forgery refreshes. Ditto for tomorrow. You don’t get to perpetuate criminal conduct because you started five years ago.

    Federal crimes are under federal jurisdiction, and the DOJ and FBI can get into that vault any time they see fit to get a grand jury to issue subpoenas and search warrants. We can agree that Trump’s DOJ and FBI will probably have different enthusiasms and commitments than Obama’s DOJ and FBI, hmmm?

    I ain’t saying that Arpaio will prove forgery or not. All I’m saying is that Trump will let him investigate the matter to his heart’s content because Trump has a political debt to pay for Arpaio’s support, and the thin-skinned Trump will want to get the last laugh on obama, who saw fit to mock Trump’s “birtherism” at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner.

    That’s all I’m sayin’.

    The five year Statute of Limitations begins from when the crime was alleged to have been committed.
    It is not a crime to digitally reproduce and copy a certified document that the state of Hawaii says is authentic.

  45. avatar
    Rickey December 4, 2016 at 11:37 pm #

    vladimir putin:

    Federal crimes are under federal jurisdiction, and the DOJ and FBI can get into that vault any time they see fit to get a grand jury to issue subpoenas and search warrants.

    What, specifically, is the Federal crime which you believe has been committed? Citing the relevant Federal statute would help.

    Contrary to what you seem to believe, the FBI and DOJ cannot get “into that vault” any time they please. Grand juries do not issue subpoenas (which are issued by prosecutors and have to be signed by a judge), and grand juries do not issue search warrants (which are issued by a judge or magistrate). And subpoenas can be quashed.

    I ain’t saying that Arpaio will prove forgery or not. All I’m saying is that Trump will let him investigate the matter to his heart’s content because Trump has a political debt to pay for Arpaio’s support

    In a few weeks Arpaio will be a private citizen, and by this time next year he may be in prison. He will have no authority to conduct an investigation on behalf of the Federal government or anyone else.

  46. avatar
    Pete December 5, 2016 at 1:01 am #

    Rickey: In a few weeks Arpaio will be a private citizen, and by this time next year he may be in prison. He will have no authority to conduct an investigation on behalf of the Federal government or anyone else.

    “Ex-sheriff Joe Arpaio.”

    Let those words sink in a bit.

  47. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 5, 2016 at 1:11 am #

    First off, if Arpaio has a “starring role” as you say, then the investigation wouldn’t be either honest or competent. Been there, seen that. Joe’s presence would taint any investigation.

    Despite the unconscionably public investigation of Hillary Clinton by the FBI, normal FBI investigations are private, low key, and their findings are only minimally public. A honest FBI investigation would not give much on details, but only a result, which would undoubtedly be the same conclusion I reached on this blog. It wouldn’t satisfy a single birther, and so it doesn’t do me any good.

    Even a very public Congressional investigation wouldn’t convince a single hard-core birther. It’s a waste of resources, and I do not believe it will ever happen.

    vladimir putin: You, Doc, should be happiest of all. An honest investigation by the FBI/DOJ will surely prove all the points you’ve been making all these years, regardless of how the birthers react.

  48. avatar
    Pete December 5, 2016 at 1:12 am #

    vladimir putin: If the PDF is a forgery, it’s on the federal servers today so the five year clock on the use of federal property to perpetrate a forgery refreshes. Ditto for tomorrow. You don’t get to perpetuate criminal conduct because you started five years ago.

    The PDF isn’t a d*mn forgery.

    In spite of what birther grifters and self-serving old politician grifters and used car salesmen grifters with cereal-box badges might allege, there’s not the slightest real evidence to even suggest that it is.

    There’s no more credible evidence of the White House PDF being a forgery than there is of Phyllis Diller having danced a jig on the grassy knoll after shooting JFK.

    MOST people, and that even includes quite a few of the stupid ones, have come to realize this by now.

  49. avatar
    trader jack December 5, 2016 at 3:42 am #

    Well, one way to know that it is a forgery, is to see how many people will defend it regardless of any evidence that it is true or false,
    the second way to know it is a forgery is to find that all of the comments against it are accompanied by insults about the posters who dare to state that they think it is a forgery.
    the third way to know it is a forgery is when people try to duplicate the forgery to demonstrate that it could only have been done on one specific type of computer, and then claim that the HDOH had that in their office before it was bought by HDOH
    The fourth way to know it is a forgery is to accept the blatantly false statement that the document has been authenticated by anyone at all.

    BHO is a citizen if he was born there and his mother was genetically determined to be his mother and his father, putative, is determined to be his genetic father, and he was not born out of wedlock, as there has never been a marriage certificate shown

    But that will never be done, will it?

  50. avatar
    Scientist December 5, 2016 at 6:44 am #

    trader jack: If everyone who did not have to have insurance had to buy insurance, did not their spendable income go down?

    when they went to the er , there was not a deductible either, was there?

    You think that because the employer had to pay the premium , that the employee did not lose money?

    Yes there are deductibles. If your $5,000 ER visit has a $500 deductible you saved $ 4,500 over what it would have been if you were uninsured.

    The facts are the following: Insurance only works if everyone is in the pool-that’s true whether it’s health, life, auto or home. Those who refuse to carry the appropriate insurance are moochers who pass the costs on to the rest of us when they get sick, which inevitably will happen. The same as the uninsured idiot who smashes into you on the street. Moochers…

  51. avatar
    Scientist December 5, 2016 at 6:47 am #

    So how come all the “constitutional conservatives” here who scrutinized Obama’s every move want to give Drumpf a free pass?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/trumps-threat-to-the-constitution.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

    Article XII? Seriously?

  52. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 5, 2016 at 9:36 am #

    A law was signed by Ronald Reagan that says basically that an emergency room has to treat you whether you can pay or not. The other huge disruption in the health care cost system is the negotiated rate. Insurance companies get massive discounts, which push costs of the insured onto the uninsured. If all were insured, these distortions would be solved. Of course, the uninsured just declare bankruptcy, further distorting the system and creating misery.

    Scientist: Those who refuse to carry the appropriate insurance are moochers who pass the costs on to the rest of us when they get sick, which inevitably will happen.

  53. avatar
    roadburner December 5, 2016 at 10:19 am #

    trader jack:
    Well, one way to know that it is a forgery, is to see how many people will defend it regardless of any evidence that it is true or false,

    so if someone accuses you of being a pedophile, the more you deny it, the more true it becomes?…..interesting theory.

    trader jack: the second way to know it is a forgery is to find that all of the comments against it are accompanied by insults about the posters who dare to state that they think it is a forgery.

    that would be because the people here are so exsasperated by idiots – yes, i said idiots – who after all this time cannot tell the difference between an online image (which actual forensics experts have publicly stated show nothing of the evidence of forgery that the birfoons claim), and a hard copy document of the state.

    trader jack: the third way to know it is a forgery is when people try to duplicate the forgery to demonstrate that it could only have been done on one specific type of computer, and then claim that the HDOH had that in their office before it was bought by HDOH

    no, the people following the charade that is birtherism showed that what the birthers call `anomolies’ can be reproduced easily under the same circumstances. and it has been proven that the White house (not the hawaii DOH, but obviously keeping track of so many contradictory conspiracy theories has confused you) used the type of scanner that was later used to prove the point.

    trader jack: The fourth way to know it is a forgery is to accept the blatantly false statement that the document has been authenticated by anyone at all.

    it was verified as being in the archives by chiyome fukino, and the contents were verified as matching the online image in writing to 3 secretaries of state – i suppose you missed that somehow.

    trader jack: BHO is a citizen if he was born there and his mother was genetically determined tobe his mother and his father, putative, is determined tobe his genetic father, and he was not born out of wedlock, as there has never been a marriage certificate shown

    have you asked to see proof that trump was born in Queens yet, and asked for genetic proof his (scottish) mother actually was his mother?

    and being born out of wedlock is irrelevent to presidential eligability, so stop clutching at straws.

    trader jack: But that will never be done, will it?

    no, because documentation of the state accordance with the united states constitution has declared that it is not neccessary – basically you don’t get your rainbow unicorn for christmas!

  54. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) December 5, 2016 at 10:46 am #

    Northland10: At minimum, I would be rather surprised if he ran for a second term.

    I’m holding off any speculation, lest it starts to sound like birthers (“Obama is so unpopular, he will never run for a second term”).

    trader jack: one way to know that it is a forgery, is to see how many people will defend it regardless of any evidence that it is true or false

    No, that’s just another Catch-22 game.
    It goes:

    Rule 1: “If you attack my forgery claims, it means there is something to it because you’d just ignore me if I were a crank.”

    Rule 2: “If you ignore my forgery claims, it means there is something to it because you’d easily refute me if I were a crank.”

    Rule 3: “I always win, even if you disregard all the rules”.

  55. avatar
    Curious George December 5, 2016 at 11:33 am #

    Trader Jack is just another braindead individual who has been misled by Arpaio & Zullo with all of their dishonest, biased, phony information that they have claimed is evidence of a forgery. Their sham investigation continues to implode under the tremendous weight of its deception. Zullo and Arpaio have continued to contribute to the mental illness of their delusional followers. What a legacy.

  56. avatar
    Reality Check December 5, 2016 at 11:38 am #

    I suppose that by using moron Trader Jack’s arguments the moon landings were all faked because people actually wrote books refuting the idiotic faked moon landing conspiracies.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 5, 2016 at 12:02 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Rule 1: “If you attack my forgery claims, it means there is something to it because you’d just ignore me if I were a crank.”

    Rule 2: “If you ignore my forgery claims, it means there is something to it because you’d easily refute me if I were a crank.”

    Rule 3: “I always win, even if you disregard all the rules”.

    That’s the argument Scotty E uses. It’s stupid. Heads I win, Tails you lose.

  58. avatar
    J.D. Sue December 5, 2016 at 12:11 pm #

    trader jack: BHO is a citizen if he was born there and his mother was genetically determined to be his mother and his father, putative, is determined to be his genetic father, and he was not born out of wedlock, as there has never been a marriage certificate shown

    But that will never be done, will it?

    No, Jack, that will not be done. So you can stop wasting time pretending you care about the birth certificate. I think you’ve been reading too much Mein Kampf.

  59. avatar
    vladimir putin December 5, 2016 at 1:07 pm #

    Mark your calendars, anti-birthers:

    arpaio birth certificate forgery press conference on december 15th

    trump inauguration on january 20th

    federal investigation of obama’s identity documents starts on january 23rd

    fat lady sings on (to be determined).

  60. avatar
    bob December 5, 2016 at 2:36 pm #

    Birthers often say that everyone should welcome an investigation that clears Obama. The Clintons are the obvious counterexamples.

    The Clintons have been repeatedly investigated over the last 30 years, and no criminal wrongdoing has ever been found. Those who wish to believe they are criminals still do, the lack of evidence notwithstanding.

    And then there’s the cost: Tens of millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on these wild-goose chases. With absolutely nothing to show.

    So there’s no need to waste money attempting to convince the inconvincible. About something that almost no one cares about.

  61. avatar
    Rickey December 5, 2016 at 3:11 pm #

    trader jack:

    posting by anon”
    AnonymousMay 23, 2016

    Because what could be more convincing than a post by an anonymous blogger?

    Did you also consider the before the got the treatment paid for they had to pay the first $2,500 deductible or higher?

    Before they had insurance they couldn’t get treatment, except in an emergency room.

  62. avatar
    Rickey December 5, 2016 at 3:20 pm #

    trader jack:

    BHO is a citizen if he was born there and his mother was genetically determined to be his mother and his father, putative, is determined to be his genetic father, and he was not born out of wedlock, as there has never been a marriage certificate shown

    What does being born out of wedlock have to do with citizenship?

    And if Obama’s parents were never married, how did his mother to obtain a divorce?

  63. avatar
    Rickey December 5, 2016 at 3:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    A law was signed by Ronald Reagan that says basically that an emergency room has to treat you whether you can pay or not. The other huge disruption in the health care cost system is the negotiated rate. Insurance companies get massive discounts, which push costs of the insured onto the uninsured. If all were insured, these distortions would be solved. Of course, the uninsured just declare bankruptcy, further distorting the system and creating misery.

    And emergency room treatment doesn’t include filling prescriptions. An E.R. will give a patient medication while the patient is in the E.R., but leaving the E.R. with a prescription isn’t much help if the patient can’t afford to have it filled.

    The inability to get medicine and follow-up care undoubtedly leads to return visits to the E.R. An NCBI study in 2009 found that 48% of the patients who had to return to the E.R. ended up being admitted to the hospital.

  64. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 5, 2016 at 4:04 pm #

    Bet you 6,380 ₽ that you’re wrong.

    vladimir putin: federal investigation of obama’s identity documents starts on january 23rd

  65. avatar
    Dave B. December 5, 2016 at 4:18 pm #

    Maybe he’ll get a special secret agent badge like Elvis was pestering Nixon for.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Arpaio can investigate to his heart’s content because America is a free country; however, when he does it, he will not be sheriff of Maricopa County, and even Trump couldn’t get an Arpaio nomination to some official position through the Senate.

  66. avatar
    Dave B. December 5, 2016 at 4:20 pm #

    He wasn’t seeking any investigation, he was seeking publicity and campaign donations. Got plenty of both. Kind of fell short on the votes, though.

    vladimir putin: Arpaio won’t be Sheriff, and Arpaio won’t be nominated for anything. He’ll just get the starring role in the investigation he’s been seeking for years.

  67. avatar
    Joey December 5, 2016 at 4:21 pm #

    In the meadow we can build a snowman
    And pretend that he is Trader Jack.
    He’ll say “that Obama is a fraud, man.”
    But that just because Jack’s on crack.

  68. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG. December 5, 2016 at 4:23 pm #

    Dave B.: Maybe he’ll get a special secret agent badge like Elvis was pestering Nixon for.

    Maybe an honorary title too!
    “Official Human Shield” has a nice ring to it.

  69. avatar
    Joey December 5, 2016 at 4:55 pm #

    vladimir putin:
    Mark your calendars, anti-birthers:

    arpaio birth certificate forgery press conference on december 15th

    trump inauguration on january 20th

    federal investigation of obama’s identity documents starts on january 23rd

    fat lady sings on (to be determined).

    Nah, I’ll pass on marking any calenders.
    Barack Obama first announced his candidacy for the presidency on February 10, 2007. He then placed a scanned image of his official state of Hawaii birth certificate on the Internet for the whole wide world to see on June 7, 2008.
    If there was even the slightest chance that there was a problem with his eligibility as a natural born U.S. Citizen, I can guarantee you that Congress would have held at least one hearing on the topic over the last nine years or at least one city, county, state or federal prosecuting attorney would have looked into the issue, to at least convene a grand jury.
    There have been zero congressional hearings and zero grand jury investigations.
    No one but a few really, really stupid extreme right wing idiots take this “birther” thing seriously.

  70. avatar
    trader jack December 5, 2016 at 4:57 pm #

    Reality Check:
    I suppose that by using moron Trader Jack’s arguments the moon landings were all faked because people actually wrote books refuting the idiotic faked moon landing conspiracies.

    and some people believed that there was no voting fraud, and no birth certificate fraud, and that you can believe that the certified copy that you see on your computer is true and accurate. And that you can always believe what the government tells you as the government never tells lies.

  71. avatar
    Joey December 5, 2016 at 5:40 pm #

    trader jack:
    Well, one way to know that it is a forgery, is to see how many people will defend it regardless of any evidence that it is true or false,
    the second way to know it is a forgery is to find that all of the comments against it are accompanied by insults about the posters who dare to state that they think it is a forgery.
    the third way to know it is a forgery is when people try to duplicate the forgery to demonstrate that it could only have been done on one specific type of computer, and then claim that the HDOH had that in their office before it was bought by HDOH
    The fourth way to know it is a forgery is to accept the blatantly false statement that the document has been authenticated by anyone at all.

    BHO is a citizen if he was born there and his mother was genetically determined tobe his mother and his father, putative, is determined tobe his genetic father, and he was not born out of wedlock, as there has never been a marriage certificate shown

    But that will never be done, will it?

    In America we don’t determine the validity of official state documents by how many people will defend them.
    The Constitution and the Federal Rules of Evidence say that if the issuing governmental authority verifies a vital record by certification stamp and seal, the vital record is self authenticated. The state of Hawaii took the additional step of issuing official verifications for the copies of the Vital Birth record of Barack Obama.
    The Obama birth record was defended and verified as authentic by two Governors of Hawaii, two Directors of the state Department of Health and by the state Registrar of Vital Statistics.

    Trader Jack accuses politicians of being liars and then he posts blatant lies about Barack Obama being born out of wedlock and he further lies by claiming that matters in presidential eligibility. Trader Jack demonstrates his hypocrisy for all to see.
    The Obama-Dunham marriage was officially documented in the 1960-1965 Index of Public Marriages in Hawaii.
    We have never seen the marriage certficate for the parents of any president nor has DNA testing ever been done to establish paternity and/or maternity for any U.S. President.

  72. avatar
    Northland10 December 5, 2016 at 6:21 pm #

    trader jack: and some people believed that there was no voting fraud, and no birth certificate fraud, and that you can believe that the certified copy that you see on your computer is true and accurate. And that you can always believe what the government tells you as the government never tells lies.

    And yet, you believe everything that politicians and government officials, like a Sheriff, tell you, without any evidence, as long as it supports what you want to believe.

    How much voter fraud has actually happened? If there is large amounts, why are their few convictions, especially in border states that have Republican controlled governments? Where’s the data that supports the claim? Do you just believe what the politicians claim?

  73. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 5, 2016 at 7:29 pm #

    Right. What’s your point?

    trader jack: and some people believed that there was no voting fraud, and no birth certificate fraud, and that you can believe that the certified copy that you see on your computer is true and accurate.

  74. avatar
    Rickey December 5, 2016 at 8:08 pm #

    Joey: Nah, I’ll pass on marking any calenders.

    If Arpaio does hold a press conference on December 15, it will be overshadowed, if not ignored altogether.Trump has announced that he will hold a press conference on the 15th to announce how he is going to “divest” himself of his business interests. I wonder which one the media will focus on?

    Here’s how irrelevant Arpaio has become – as far as I can determine, World Net Daily hasn’t published a single word about the December 15 press conference.

  75. avatar
    Keith December 5, 2016 at 9:24 pm #

    Rickey: In a few weeks Arpaio will be a private citizen, and by this time next year he may be in prison. He will have no authority to conduct an investigation on behalf of the Federal government or anyone else.

    I have a big suspicion that he is already rehearsing his post-Shurf life as an “Evil Demonic Possessor”.

    And I think he’s practicing on my wife.

    Every time I buy a nice new pair of white underwear to wear under my white Croquet uniform she figures out a way to die them pink in the washing machine.

  76. avatar
    Pete December 6, 2016 at 2:48 am #

    trader jack:
    Well, one way to know that it is a forgery, is to see how many people will defend it regardless of any evidence that it is true or false,

    Wow. Are you just a jacky-come-lately?

    The evidence has been discussed EXHAUSTIVELY, LITERALLY EXHAUSTIVELY, for the past 8 years.

    It’s a discussion that people have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours on.

    And when I say “exhaustively,” I mean that every single aspect of every single claim has been beaten to death over and over again.

    And every single aspect of every single claim made by birthers has repeatedly been shown to be utter bullsh*t.

    So either you’re a jacky-come-lately, or you’re a troll, or you’re a willful ignoramus, or you’re an idiot.

    Which one is it?

    the second way to know it is a forgery is to find that all of the comments against it are accompanied by insults about the posters who dare to state that they think it is a forgery.

    Forgive us for thinking, nay, knowing, that if you’re still making these bullsh*t claims, you must fall into one of the 4 categories above.

    There are no others.

    By the way, be grateful that you, like all other birthers for the past 8 years, are allowed to speak freely here. That was never the case on birther web sites for anyone who disagreed with their bullsh*t or had evidence to the contrary.

    The fourth way to know it is a forgery is to accept the blatantly false statement that the document has been authenticated by anyone at all.

    O.M.G.

    It’s been repeatedly authenticated by the HDOH.

    BHO is a citizen if he was born there and his mother was genetically determined tobe his mother and his father, putative, is determined tobe his genetic father, and he was not born out of wedlock, as there has never been a marriage certificate shown

    But that will never be done, will it?

    Hell no, it won’t be done. Tell me when in American history a genetic test or the presentation of a marriage certificate was required to determine the paternity of a US President. Was it required for any President in history? Will it be required for Trump?

    Hell, no.

    There’s a thing called common sense. Common sense says that if little Jimmy was raised from birth by parents Joe and Jane, and there was never any question that Jimmy was adopted after birth from overseas, then little Jimmy is there son born in the good old USA.

    But you wouldn’t know anything about common sense, would you?

  77. avatar
    Pete December 6, 2016 at 2:55 am #

    trader jack: and some people believed that there was no voting fraud, and no birth certificate fraud, and that you can believe that the certified copy that you see on your computer is true and accurate. And that you can always believe what the government tells you as the government never tells lies.

    And some people believed that George Washington was once President of the United States, and that you should brush your teeth, and drive on the right side of the road, and that the earth is round and not flat, because they were taught that in the government school, by government functionaries.

    Then there are the reeeeeeeeelly smart people, like you.

  78. avatar
    vladimir putin December 6, 2016 at 5:49 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Bet you 6,380 ₽ that you’re wrong.

    Careful, there Doc. I predicted Trump would win the nomination and I predicted Trump would win the Presidency.

    What are the odds?

    BTW, have you heard the rumors about pizzagate and the rumor that obama’s kids were borrowed from his best friend and his best friend’s doctor wife?

    I don’t know whether to believe the rumors, but you gotta admit the one kid looks like the doctor wife and the other looks like obama’s best friend. Nesbitt.

  79. avatar
    vladimir putin December 6, 2016 at 5:52 am #

    Plus I’d be interested to know whether Chelsea Hubbell rumors and Danney Williams’ claims are eligible to be categorized as “birther” conspiracy theories.

  80. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 6, 2016 at 7:56 am #

    I take it that you are refusing the bet.

    vladimir putin: Careful, there Doc. I predicted Trump would win the nomination and I predicted Trump would win the Presidency.

  81. avatar
    Bob December 6, 2016 at 8:58 am #

    Trump is still a Birther but he’s learned to control it — kind of like a “former alcoholic.”

  82. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 6, 2016 at 9:16 am #

    vladimir putin: BTW, have you heard the rumors about pizzagate and the rumor that obama’s kids were borrowed from his best friend and his best friend’s doctor wife?

    Pizzagate? You mean that discredited nonsense? You guys just believe anything.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 6, 2016 at 9:16 am #

    vladimir putin: I don’t know whether to believe the rumors, but you gotta admit the one kid looks like the doctor wife and the other looks like obama’s best friend. Nesbitt.

    Are you saying all black people look alike?

  84. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 6, 2016 at 9:18 am #

    trader jack: Well, one way to know that it is a forgery, is to see how many people will defend it regardless of any evidence that it is true or false,

    Hmm you mean like the birther movement? That birthers like yourself still believe their false claims despite evidence to the contrary? You’re arguing against your own position.

  85. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 6, 2016 at 9:23 am #

    trader jack: BHO is a citizen if he was born there and his mother was genetically determined to be his mother and his father, putative, is determined to be his genetic father, and he was not born out of wedlock, as there has never been a marriage certificate shown

    You could just have saved all the nonsense and just stated that in Jack’s mind a black man can never legitimately be the President. You would have saved yourself the years of trolling. If this is what it’s come to requiring DNA tests in order to be president, you’ve clearly lost your mind. Nothing you’ve stated proves it’s a forgery.

  86. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 6, 2016 at 9:25 am #

    vladimir putin: arpaio birth certificate forgery press conference on december 15th

    Are you sure? Gallups keeps moving it around first it was the 5th.

  87. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) December 6, 2016 at 11:24 am #

    Reality Check: I suppose that by using moron Trader Jack’s arguments the moon landings were all faked because people actually wrote books refuting the idiotic faked moon landing conspiracies.

    One consequence of Catch-22 arguments is that it’s basically Schroedinger’s Cat – the moon landings were both faked and not faked, and Obama’s birth certificate is both real and a forgery.
    To which final state the superposition collapses depends on the sanity of the observer.
    In mathematical terms:
    p_ + Δp <= λ(birther)

  88. avatar
    Lupin December 6, 2016 at 11:52 am #

    vladimir putin: I predicted Trump would win the Presidency.

    Actually I predicted Trump would win too (not entirely convinced myself, but with that sinking feeling in one’s stomach) mostly because i think there are way too many people like you in the asylum.

  89. avatar
    Rickey December 6, 2016 at 12:23 pm #

    vladimir putin

    BTW, have you heard the rumors about pizzagate

    Didn’t your mother teach you not to spread false rumors?

    All you need to know about pizzagate:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/fever-swamp-election?utm_term=.pjWz1Ob1r#.lcwWzqNzA

  90. avatar
    Curious George December 6, 2016 at 2:15 pm #

    Now that Old Joe Arpaio is going to lose his security detail, who is going to drive him around? Shortly after old Joe wrecked his county car, others began to drive him around. A sheriff who can’t drive a car safely and a sheriff who doesn’t carry a firearm. It really was time for Joe to go. (Notice how he blames the car for the wreck.)

    http://archive.azcentral.com/news/columns/articles/0530ruelas30.html

  91. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 3:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Right. What’s your point?

    My point is that , with today technology, it is difficult to not believe that anything that has been processed through a computer, could not be altered by the user of the computer to duplicate a document.

    Not one of us has seen the hard copy of the birth certificate.

    Now, theoretically, the evidence of the birth is truly on the web, as disclosed by the government, and yet the document is, apparently, sealed from public view, and kept in special storage.

    As the term of the president is almost over, what would be the reason for keeping it out of sight of the public?

    Simply releasing a photograph of the document, en situ, would resolve any question about the original document.

    I do not think it will be further exposed , until some retired clerk of the HDOH, comes forth with their copy of the document, or relates the circumstances of the handling of the document.

    I don’t believe the LFBC simply because I have never seen a routine printer print words in different dpi in the word such as shown on the LFBC, and the only place I have seen it is on that document

    But, hell, the problems are almost over. and one or the other group will be trumped. (no capital letter)

  92. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 3:29 pm #

    Curious George:
    Now that Old Joe Arpaio is going to lose his security detail, who is going to drive him around?Shortly after old Joe wrecked his county car, others began to drive him around.A sheriff who can’t drive a car safely and a sheriff who doesn’t carry a firearm.It really was time for Joe to go.(Notice how he blames the car for the wreck.)

    http://archive.azcentral.com/news/columns/articles/0530ruelas30.html

    the same people who drive old people around when they lose their license.

    Most sheriffs do not carry guns in big cities, as they spend their time in offices, not in your neighborhood.

    You must believe that cars never cause accidents.

  93. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 6, 2016 at 3:31 pm #

    That is why the statements of the custodians of records are so important, and why you shouldn’t pay attention to birther web sites.

    trader jack: My point is that , with today technology, it is difficult to not believe that anything that has been processed through a computer, could not be altered by the user of the computer to duplicate a document.

    Not one of us has seen the hard copy of the birth certificate.

  94. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 3:33 pm #

    Rickey: Didn’t your mother teach you not to spread false rumors?

    All you need to know about pizzagate:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/fever-swamp-election?utm_term=.pjWz1Ob1r#.lcwWzqNzA

    How can you confirm that site is not a source of fake news?

  95. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 3:40 pm #

    Rickey: Didn’t your mother teach you not to spread false rumors?

    All you need to know about pizzagate:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/fever-swamp-election?utm_term=.pjWz1Ob1r#.lcwWzqNzA

    How can you confirm that site is not a source of fake news?

    The Magic M (not logged in): One consequence of Catch-22 arguments is that it’s basically Schroedinger’s Cat – the moon landings were both faked and not faked, and Obama’s birth certificate is both real and a forgery.
    To which final state the superposition collapses depends on the sanity of the observer.
    In mathematical terms:
    p_ + Δp <= λ(birther)

    Simple, I have a real fake $100 bill! It is a real $100 bill , until I try to spend it.

    It is possible that there is a real fake birth certificate in the files, that they do not want to show it to the people who might not accept it as real.

  96. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 3:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    That is why the statements of the custodians of records are so important, and why you shouldn’t pay attention to birther web sites.

    If you take the words of custodian of records, you will lose your money.

    That is why they have title companies to provide insurance that the words on the record are true.

    I was a real estate broker and appraiser, and had to verify some records by inspection in the hall of records

    Just consider the words of the reporting of the votes in this election.

  97. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 3:52 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: You could just have saved all the nonsense and just stated that in Jack’s mind a black man can never legitimately be the President.You would have saved youNotherself the years of trolling.If this is what it’s come to requiring DNA tests in order to be president, you’ve clearly lost your mind.Nothing you’ve stated proves it’s a forgery.

    No copy of a document can be proven without access to the original can it?

    So, how did you prove the LFBC?

  98. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 3:56 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Hmm you mean like the birther movement?That birthers like yourself still believe their false claims despite evidence to the contrary?You’re arguing against your own position.

    Very simply, it is the same thing that you do, any evidence that is against my position must be fake, as I can not accept anything that disputes my position.

    You think evidence is fake, but you won’t allow me to thin evidence is fake.

    My position is more accurate than yours as you have little evidence to prove it is true!

  99. avatar
    Rickey December 6, 2016 at 4:00 pm #

    trader jack:

    Not one of us has seen the hard copy of the birth certificate.

    Now, theoretically, the evidence of the birth is truly on the web, as disclosed by the government, and yet the document is, apparently, sealed from public view, and kept in special storage.

    As the term of the president is almost over, whatwould be the reason for keeping it out of sight of the public?

    Have you ever seen the hard copy of your birth certificate? I’ve never seen mine, yet I am confident about when and where I was born, and who my parents were.

    All birth certificates in Hawaii are “sealed from public view,” as you have been told at least 100 times. No government agency is going to let members of the public come in and handle original vital documents. That is why they issue certified copies to people who are eligible under law to receive them.

  100. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 4:01 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Are you saying all black people look alike?

    Well, I guess you can not tell a black person from a brown, red , white , or yellow person, can you?

    they are all alike if you can discern a difference from other categories of humans. so in that reference they are all alike.

  101. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 4:12 pm #

    Rickey: All birth certificates in Hawaii are “sealed from public view,” as you have been told at least 100 times. No government agency is going to let members of the public come in and handle original vital documents. That is why they issue certified copies to people who are eligible under law to receive them.

    Oh, for heavens sake, they issue certified copies of a document on file in the department. Any citizen used to be able to go in an look at the documents, and if you scrutinize the law more closely you will see that there are numerous exceptions.

    Besides , almost any one in the office can go look at a document that is in the binder. Kind of like the records in the archives.

    You look at the law and you will find that the director can authorize almost anything he wants to about access to the files.

    Remember the birth records are on file with the federal government !

  102. avatar
    Joey December 6, 2016 at 4:13 pm #

    Rickey: Have you ever seen the hard copy of your birth certificate? I’ve never seen mine, yet I am confident about when and where I was born, and who my parents were.

    All birth certificates in Hawaii are “sealed from public view,” as you have been told at least 100 times. No government agency is going to let members of the public come in and handle original vital documents. That is why they issue certified copies to people who are eligible under law to receive them.

    The law in Hawaii permits 13 different classes of indviduals to inspect or receive a copy of an original birth certificate. The one that birthers could have used is “a person with an order from a court of competent jurisdiction.”

  103. avatar
    Rickey December 6, 2016 at 4:15 pm #

    trader jack:

    You must believe that cars never cause accidents.

    Defective cars sometimes cause accidents, but sudden acceleration is almost never caused by a mechanical problem. It invariably occurs when a driver mistakenly hits the gas pedal instead of the brake pedal.

    On the other hand, it is very common for people who suddenly accelerate and cause an accident to falsely blame it on a mechanical problem.

    As the article points out, the mechanic who repaired Arpaio’s car found no evidence of a problem with the acceleration mechanism.

  104. avatar
    Joey December 6, 2016 at 4:23 pm #

    trader jack: My point is that , with today technology, it is difficult to not believe that anything that has been processed through a computer, could not be altered by the user of the computer to duplicate a document.

    Not one of us has seen the hard copy of the birth certificate.

    Now, theoretically, the evidence of the birth is truly on the web, as disclosed by the government, and yet the document is, apparently, sealed from public view, and kept in special storage.

    As the term of the president is almost over, whatwould be the reason for keeping it out of sight of the public?

    Simply releasing a photograph of the document, en situ, would resolve any question about the original document.

    I do not think it will be further exposed , until some retired clerk of the HDOH, comes forth with their copy of the document, or relates the circumstances of the handling of the document.

    I don’tbelieve the LFBC simply because I have never seen a routine printer print words in different dpi in the word such as shown on the LFBC, and the only place I have seen it is on that document

    But, hell, the problems are almost over. and one or the other group will be trumped.(no capital letter)

    Hard copies of the birth certificate (non-computerized) were provided to every member of the Washington Press Corps on April 27, 2011. Several members of the press corps took photographs of those copies and the photos were published in newspapers around the country.
    Additionally the Registrar of Vital Statistics for the state of Hawaii has verified in writing on multiple occasions that the data on the original document, which he has inspected, matches the data on the pdf that is on the whitehouse.gov web site.
    Any official who doubts the veracity of the Hawaii Registrar could have deposed or subpoenaed him and any congressional committee could issue a subpoena for inspection of the original birth vital record.

  105. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 4:25 pm #

    Pete: It’s been repeatedly authenticated by the HDOH.

    And I have posted the requirement for a documental authentication, and no one has shown that any birth certificate has been authenticated by HDOH, and they are unable to do so.

    https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/judicial/authentication-of-documents/authentication-certificate-requirements.html#State

    “Requirements for State and Local documents include:
    Must submit the original document that contains the raised and/or stamped seal of the court or Department of vital records.
    Certified original.
    Certified by the Secretary of State from the state in which the documents were recorded. The Secretary of State will certify to the official signing the document under the Seal of the State.

    Now that has never been shown to have been done by anyone who claims the document was authenticated by the HDOH

  106. avatar
    Curious George December 6, 2016 at 4:44 pm #

    trader jack: the same people who drive old people around when they lose their license.

    Most sheriffs do not carry guns in big cities, as they spend their time in offices, not in your neighborhood.

    You must believe thatcars never cause accidents.

    As has already been pointed out, the mechanic said there was nothing wrong with the car. The only other option is driver error. As far as sheriff’s not carrying firearms, show us your source for your comment that most sheriff’s don’t carry a firearm while on duty.

  107. avatar
    Keith December 6, 2016 at 6:52 pm #

    Curious George:
    Now that Old Joe Arpaio is going to lose his security detail, who is going to drive him around?Shortly after old Joe wrecked his county car, others began to drive him around.A sheriff who can’t drive a car safely and a sheriff who doesn’t carry a firearm.It really was time for Joe to go.(Notice how he blames the car for the wreck.)

    http://archive.azcentral.com/news/columns/articles/0530ruelas30.html

    I reckon he’ll have to rely on an undocumented the Honduran Uber driver who voted 6 times in Arizona and 10 times in California.

  108. avatar
    Northland10 December 6, 2016 at 7:51 pm #

    trader jack: Simply releasing a photograph of the document, en situ, would resolve any question about the original document.

    Basically, the PDF on the White House website is a pictue, ie photograph, of the certified copy sent to Obama from Hawaii.

    In addition some press members also took pictures of certified copy. The certifies copy is the only thing amy state sends out

    He did what you are asking but you denied and ignored it. Why should he do anything for people like you who would deny it anyway.

  109. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 8:13 pm #

    Curious George: As has already been pointed out, the mechanic said there was nothing wrong with the car. The only other option is driver error. As far as sheriff’s not carrying firearms, show us your source for your comment that most sheriff’s don’t carry a firearm while on duty.

    You must be a uber user. a good condition car can be in a lot of accidents that are not due to driver error. I was driving a car , stopped at a stop sign, and a car turned into the street and hit my car door. I was driving a car and a car backed out of a driveway in front of me, and I hit, in front of a cop too.

    Just google car accidents and see how many cars get hit without driver error

  110. avatar
    Dave B. December 6, 2016 at 8:13 pm #

    I hear he’s going to go back to trying to sell rides on rocket ships. That whole Challenger thing has kind of cooled off now.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Arpaio can investigate to his heart’s content because America is a free country; however, when he does it, he will not be sheriff of Maricopa County, and even Trump couldn’t get an Arpaio nomination to some official position through the Senate.

  111. avatar
    trader jack December 6, 2016 at 8:17 pm #

    Northland10: Basically, the PDF on the White House website is a pictue, ie photograph, of the certified copy sent to Obama from Hawaii.

    In addition some press members also took pictures of certified copy.The certifies copy is the only thing amy state sends out

    He did what you are asking but you denied and ignored it.Why should he do anything for people like you who would deny it anyway.

    And you think pdf’s are true copies of documents, when it is possible to edit the pdf’s

    Nothing that goes through a computer is immune for alteration.

  112. avatar
    bob December 6, 2016 at 10:05 pm #

    My point is that , with today technology, it is difficult to not believe that anything that has been processed through a computer, could not be altered by the user of the computer to duplicate a document.

    “Could” is doing all the work there.

  113. avatar
    gorefan December 6, 2016 at 10:47 pm #

    Trader Jack – “I don’t believe the LFBC simply because I have never seen a routine printer print words in different dpi in the word such as shown on the LFBC, and the only place I have seen it is on that document.”

    That is an incredibly ignorant statement. The multiple DPI only exists in the PDF. They do not exist in the certified copy. Look at the AP copy of the LFBC. No multiple DPIs.

    Remember just because you have never seen something doesn’t mean that it is unusual or unique.

    There are dozens of PDFs on the internet that show exactly the same thing. This one from an elementary school has check boxes at different dots per inch. But that doesn’t mean the original document had multiple DPI check boxes.

    http://www.murrieta.k12.ca.us/cms/lib5/CA01000508/Centricity/Domain/2315/asthmaauthorization.pdf

  114. avatar
    Joey December 6, 2016 at 11:19 pm #

    Here is Associated Press Photographer J. Scott Applewhite’s PHOTOGRAPH of the HARD COPY of Barack Obama’s long form birth certificate:
    https://lasvegassun.com/photos/2011/apr/27/114345/

    This photo was in newspapers all across the country that use the Associated Press news wire.

  115. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 6, 2016 at 11:51 pm #

    You guys are wasting your time, arguing with that stolen valor case.

  116. avatar
    Pete December 7, 2016 at 12:26 am #

    Northland10: He did what you are asking but you denied and ignored it. Why should he do anything for people like you who would deny it anyway.

    And that’s the bottom line, jack.

    HE ALREADY DID WHAT YOU’RE ASKING, AND YOU DENIED AND IGNORED IT.

  117. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund December 7, 2016 at 12:34 am #

    trader jack: I don’t believe the LFBC simply because I have never seen a routine printer print words in different dpi in the word such as shown on the LFBC, and the only place I have seen it is on that document

    This failure to have seen “printers” [scanners] “print” [scan] words in different “dpi” [ppi] in the word is entirely because you refuse to look, even when linked to examples dozens of times. And that’s just counting the times I’ve linked to such examples. Every three months, like a demented cuckoo clock, Traitor Jack posts the same lie about never seeing a printer that prints words in multiple dpi, is corrected on it actually being a scanner that scans in multiple ppi, and is given links to online examples. Links which, of course, being the coward that he is, he refuses to follow.

    Here’s yet another link showing a scanner that scanned words in multiple ppi

    Follow the link and describe the content so that you can demonstrate that you have indeed seen the link, Jack. Or are you too chicken?

    So what is it Jack? Are you lying about all the examples you’ve been given? Or are you too cowardly to even look at these examples?

    Or maybe you’re just too stupid to even figure out how to follow a hyperlink…

  118. avatar
    Rickey December 7, 2016 at 12:39 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    You guys are wasting your time, arguing with that stolen valor case.

    If you look up the word “obstinate” in the dictionary you’ll see pictures of Trader Jack and Cody Robert Judy.

  119. avatar
    Rickey December 7, 2016 at 1:07 am #

    W. Kevin Vicklund:
    So what is it Jack?Are you lying about all the examples you’ve been given?Or are you too cowardly to even look at these examples?

    If Jack is willing to let Doc send me his e-mail address, I’ll send him a certified PDF copy of a Police Accident Report which I received from New York DMV on Tuesday.
    Among the compression “anomalies”:

    The pre-printed words BICYCLIST and PEDESTRIAN do not have level letters on the PDF copy. Each letter after the first letter is slightly higher than the one preceding it.

    Two rectangular boxes at the top of the report have broken lines. They are perfectly formed rectangles on an original form.

    There is a square box on the second page which bends slightly to the right.

    How about it, Jack? Would you like to see it?

    Yet this is an official certified record which will be accepted into evidence in court.

  120. avatar
    Dave B. December 7, 2016 at 3:51 am #

    Oh for crying out loud.

    trader jack: And I have posted the requirement for a documental authentication, and no one has shown that any birth certificate has been authenticated by HDOH, and they are unable to do so.

  121. avatar
    roadburner December 7, 2016 at 4:11 am #

    trader jack: And I have posted the requirement for a documental authentication, and no one has shown that any birth certificate has been authenticated by HDOH, and they are unable to do so.

    https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/judicial/authentication-of-documents/authentication-certificate-requirements.html#State

    “Requirements for State and Local documents include:
    Must submit the original document that contains the raised and/or stamped seal of the court or Department of vital records.
    Certified original.
    Certified by the Secretary of State from the state in which the documents were recorded. The Secretary of State will certify to the official signing the document under the Seal of the State.

    Now that has never been shown to have been done by anyone who claims the document was authenticated by the HDOH

    unfortunately for you Jack, the copies handed around at the WH presser were both sealed by the head of vital records, and had his signature attesting to them being a true copies.

    and according to the united states constitution, that is good enough, and also good enough for any other government authority.

    but obviously not good enough for constitution-hating Jack.

  122. avatar
    Lupin December 7, 2016 at 4:38 am #

    trader jack: My position is more accurate than yours as you have little evidence to prove it is true!

    You’re a nazi. Shut up.

  123. avatar
    Scientist December 7, 2016 at 7:42 am #

    trader jack: And you think pdf’s are true copies of documents, when it is possible to edit the pdf’s

    Nothing that goes through a computer is immune for alteration.

    Forget about the pdf. Try dealing with the hard copy seen and touched and photographed by dozens of press members. That is what would be presented in any court proceeding, not the pdf.

    The pdf is irrelevant.

  124. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) December 7, 2016 at 9:54 am #

    trader jack: Simply releasing a photograph of the document, en situ, would resolve any question about the original document.

    BS. You and other birthers would just claim the photo is a forgery, or that a forgery was photographed and that they need to see the original to be sure.
    The last part is them being closest to sanity as nobody can truly declare a document valid unless they inspected the actual document.
    However your personal doubt still does entitle you to your own set of facts (given you’ve seen no other President’s BC in the flesh either, you cannot honestly give them the benefit of the doubt but demand Obama “prove he’s innocent”).

    I also will watch closely whether you will publically hold Trump to the same standards once he’s been sworn in. He has released significantly less on the BC scale than Obama. If “released nothing” is a 0 and “showed the vault document to you personally” is a 10, Obama gets an 8 whereas Trump gets a 1.

    Or compare them like this:

    * Declared “born in the US” by Congress – Obama 1, Trump 0.
    * Released certified copies of BC – Obama 1, Trump 0.
    * Secretaries of state declaring they’ve personally seen the original BC – Obama 2, Trump 0.
    * State SOS’ declaring satisfaction with candidate’s birth info as verified by birth state – Obama 2, Trump 0.
    * Department of Health of birth state declaring the candidate was born there – Obama 1, Trump 0.

    That’s already 7-0 in Obama’s favour (and he’d beat *any* other candidate in history by a similar score, only McCain would score 1 point). Yet you still doubt where he was born while not having any issues with Trump.

  125. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) December 7, 2016 at 10:12 am #

    trader jack: Nothing that goes through a computer is immune for alteration.

    Nothing is immune from (!) anything anyway.
    Witnesses can lie or misremember. Officials can deliberately record false information. Remember the birthers’ last line of defense – the claim that even assuming the vault record has not been tampered with, there is “no proof” the information entered into the original was correct in the first place.
    Which moves the goalposts further to “we need witnesses” (“here you are” – “but they’re lying!”) and “we need hospital documentation” (“here you are” – “but it’s forged” – “no it’s not” – “then those recording it were recording false information, so we need more documents from …” – “here you go” – “it’s forged” and so on ad infinitum).
    As you see, the chain of evidence never ends – you are never willing to reach a point where you will concede the information is correct because you are not willing to accept the consequences thereof.
    You’re like a cult member (and I include nearly every religion) who will never accept there is no supernatural deity, no matter how much scientific evidence to the contrary there is.

  126. avatar
    roadburner December 7, 2016 at 12:32 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in):
    You’re like a cult member (and I include nearly every religion) who will never accept there is no supernatural deity, no matter how much scientific evidence to the contrary there is.

    i find the birthers more like people who have been sucked into nigerian scams, and continue to send money to the conmen because they hold a glimmering hope that eventually they will get all the millions promised to them even though everyone around them are telling them they are being conned.

  127. avatar
    Joey December 7, 2016 at 12:49 pm #

    Scientist: Forget about the pdf.Try dealing with the hard copy seen and touched and photographed by dozens of press members.That is what would be presented in any court proceeding, not the pdf.

    The pdf is irrelevant.

    Even photocopies of the pdf have been introduced as evidence in Obama eligibility lawsuits in Mississippi federal court and before the Alabama state Supreme Court. The Mississippi federal judge ( a Reagan appointee) and the nine Justices (all elected Republicans) of the Alabama Supreme Court had no problem with the photocopied images of the pdf taken from whitehouse.gov.
    So while the pdf is indeed “irrelevant,” it is also “good to go” in federal and state court under the requirements of Federal Rule of Evidence 1005: “Copies of Public Records to Prove Content”

  128. avatar
    Rickey December 7, 2016 at 1:40 pm #

    trader jack: You must be a uber user. agood condition car can be in a lot of accidents that are not due to driver error.I was driving a car , stopped at a stop sign, and a car turned into the street and hit my car door.I was driving a car and a car backed out of a driveway in front of me, and I hit, in front ofa cop too.

    Just google car accidents and see how many cars get hit without driver error

    You’re being obstinate again.

    The accident you described was caused by driver error. Maybe not your error, but certainly by the driver who backed out in front of you. In fact, almost all auto accidents involve driver error by at least one person. That’s why there are so many personal injury lawsuits – the blameless driver sues the at-fault driver.

    Nearly 100% of accidents caused by vehicle defect are attributed either to worn tires or worn brakes. Though technically not considered to be “driver error,” they are considered to be owner negligence for failure to properly maintain a vehicle.

    The chance that Arpaio’s accident was caused by a mechanical problem with his car is extremely remote. As I mentioned before, sudden acceleration is almost always caused by a driver hitting the accelerator instead of the brake. Are you familiar with Occam’s razor?

  129. avatar
    bob December 7, 2016 at 3:37 pm #

    trader jack: It is possible that there is a real fake birth certificate in the files, that they do not want to show it to the people who might not accept it as real.

    And you think pdf’s are true copies of documents, when it is possible to edit the pdf’s

    An infinite amount of things are possible; your speculation is evidence only of a vivid imagination.

    * * *

    trader jack: If you take the words of custodian of records, you will lose your money.

    The laws of United States require birth certificates to be presumed valid unless proven otherwise. Why do you hate America?

    * * *

    trader jack: And I have posted the requirement for a documental authentication

    For apostilles, which have nothing to do with U.S. birth certificates used within the United States.

  130. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG. December 7, 2016 at 3:58 pm #

    Lupin: You’re a nazi. Shut up.

    Well he did say he served in WWII, but did not specify which side.

  131. avatar
    Joey December 7, 2016 at 5:01 pm #

    It is really diificult to discuss issues rationally with Trader Jack because he is ignorant of the historical facts of the official releases of both Barack Obama’s short form abstracted birth certificate in 2008 and his original long form birth certificate, released in 2011.
    Trader Jack doesn’t understand that everything he complains about and questions was resolved years ago.
    When confronted with undeniable evidence, Trader’s fall back position is that you can’t trust government officials (Trader Jack doesn’t undersand the difference between politicians and civil servants). So anyone issuing an official statement that conflicts with Trader Jack’s viewpoint is automatically a liar.
    Trader Jack ignores the fact that a government official or civil servant who might be stating untruths can be called to testify before Congress under oath, can be deposed, and can be subpoenaed with the threat of perjury hanging over their head.
    The first official written confirmation of the authenticity of Barack Obama’s birth vital record was issued by the Hawaii Director of Health (not a politician) on October 30, 2008. The second written confirmation was issued on July 27, 2009, the third confirmation, a press release was issued on April 27, 2011. The fourth, a certified Letter of Verification for the birth certificate issued by the Registrar of Vital Statistics (not a politician) on May 22, 2012. The fifth official confirmation, also a Certified Letter of Verfication was submitted to U.S. District Court Judge Henry T. Wingate in Jackson, Mississippi on June 6, 2012 and the sixth official confirmation, another Certified Letter of Verification was submitted to the Kansas Secretary of State on September 22, 2012.
    In addition to the above, the 2002 to 2010 Hawaii Director of Health Dr. Fukino was interviewed by CNN on April 26, 2011. Dr. Fukino stated unequivocably that she had inspected the birth certificate and it is 100% authentic.
    Finally 2002-2010 Hawaii Governor Linda Lingle (a Republican politician) was interviewed on a Jewish rabbi’s (Shmuley Boteach) radio program in May, 2010. The Governor stated that “Its been established, he (Obama) was born here and that’s just a fact.”
    And as I already posted, the general public has had the opportunity to see non-computer created photos of the hard copy Obama long form birth certificate that were taken by J. Scott Applewhite of the Associated Press and by Savannah Guthrie of NBC News at the White House Press Corps press conference that announced President Obama’s receipt of two certified copies of his long form birth certificate from the Hawaii Registrar, Alvin T. Onaka.

  132. avatar
    Joey December 7, 2016 at 5:46 pm #

    From five years ago.
    NBC News’ Savannah Guthrie: “I felt the raised seal,”
    http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/42789377

  133. avatar
    Rickey December 7, 2016 at 6:33 pm #

    Joey:
    From five years ago.
    NBC News’ Savannah Guthrie: “I felt the raised seal,”
    http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/42789377

    And the raised seal on Obama’s COLB, taken by factcheck.org in August, 2008:

    http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2013/07/birth_certificate_1.jpg

  134. avatar
    Pete December 7, 2016 at 7:07 pm #

    trader jack: It is possible that there is a real fake birth certificate in the files, that they do not want to show it to the people who might not accept it as real.

    It’s possible that Adolph Hitler is your daddy.

    Even if you were born after he died, it’s possible that someone used his frozen sperm to impregnate your mother.

    It’s possible that Justin Bieber was born with no genitalia.

    It’s possible that you murdered and ate Jimmy Hoffa.

    Even if you were too young in 1975, it’s possible that you’ve faked your age.

    Even if we can establish that you were too young, it’s still possible that a time traveler from the year 2247 came back, grabbed you, and took you to the 1970’s to do the deed.

    “Possible” is speculation. “Possible” is imagination. “Possible” is not proof of any d*mn thing.

  135. avatar
    trader jack December 7, 2016 at 9:11 pm #

    gorefan: That is an incredibly ignorant statement. The multiple DPI only exists in the PDF. They do not exist in the certified copy. Look at the AP copy of the LFBC. No multiple DPIs.

    As it may be possible, mayn’t it, that you have never seen the original certified copy, and you do not know if it had multiple dpis in words.

    And, if the AP copy has none, then it is not a copy provided to them, but a copy they my have been made from a different source

    But , believe as you wish, for I have no control over your wishes.

  136. avatar
    trader jack December 7, 2016 at 9:23 pm #

    Rickey: The chance that Arpaio’s accident was caused by a mechanical problem with his car is extremely remote. As I mentioned before, sudden acceleration is almost always caused by a driver hitting the accelerator instead of the brake. Are you familiar with Occam’s razor?

    Actually, my 1928Chevrolet in 1938 had a sudden acceleration problem when the throttle linkage to the carb came loose and the car sped up with full acceleration until I shut off the engine.

    Further , it appears that the modern cars are susceptible to outside control through the electronic system.

    Looks like Occam’s razor is a five bladed one.

    But do as you wish, you may believe whatever pleases you best.

  137. avatar
    Reality Check December 7, 2016 at 9:24 pm #

    Or you may be a complete idiot. I think that is the likeliest explanation.

    trader jack: And, if the AP copy has none, then it is not a copy provided to them, but a copy they my have been made from a different source

  138. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2016 at 9:31 pm #

    Jack, you seem to enjoy being ignorant, remaining in doubt on purpose, when you could resolve the questions. For example, there were some questions as to exactly what the AP photo was, so the blogger RC contacted the photographer, Scott Applewhite, and asked him what it was.

    You can read about that here:

    https://rcradioblog.wordpress.com/2014/04/11/how-did-ap-photographer-j-scott-applewhite-photograph-the-copy-of-the-obama-lfbc/

    The thing about the differing DPI regions in the long form PDF proves that it came from the Xerox WorkCentre because when a real paper form was scanned that that machine, different DPI regions were created. the same ones.

    trader jack: As it may be possible, mayn’t it, that you have never seen the original certified copy, and you do not know if it had multiple dpis in words.

    And, if the AP copy has none, then it is not a copy provided to them, but a copy they my have been made from a different source

  139. avatar
    Keith December 7, 2016 at 9:41 pm #

    Rickey: The chance that Arpaio’s accident was caused by a mechanical problem with his car is extremely remote. As I mentioned before, sudden acceleration is almost always caused by a driver hitting the accelerator instead of the brake. Are you familiar with Occam’s razor?

    You must be new here.

    What have you done with the old Rickey?

  140. avatar
    trader jack December 7, 2016 at 9:45 pm #

    vick, I looked at the Sedona monthly, and I can see that different fonts are used, but I can not see where any one word had a different dpi in the word.

    Perhaps you can point it out to me.

    And, I do believe , a monthly is printed from type set, or the other way, which this old man has forgotten.

    And there will be no pixel or dpi shown in the printed page. Show me one word ,printed using a digital printer, that will show a different pixel ,or dpi, in the letters of that word.

    that is where one letter has a different dpi, or pixel count, in one letter of the word

    Now, perhaps, you are referring to non-digital printers. I don’t know what you think.

  141. avatar
    trader jack December 7, 2016 at 10:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The thing about the differing DPI regions in the long form PDF proves that it came from the Xerox WorkCentre because when a real paper form was scanned that that machine, different DPI regions were created. the same ones.

    Nice phrasing Dr, C. using the term “differing dpi regions” instead of what I was asking about the different dpi within a word., unless you believe that every letter is a different dpi region

  142. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2016 at 10:35 pm #

    When I said regions, I was generally referring to the registrar’s stamp and the date stamp. The main body of the form is separated into a foreground and a background layer, each with a different DPI and a different compression method. This is exactly what we saw when we scanned a real paper replica of the Obama certificate, and what I saw when I scanned my own birth certificate in earlier experiments.

    No birther has ever provided any rationale for how the foregrounds and backgrounds are separated; however, their opponents have — it’s way the machine works.

    trader jack: Nice phrasing Dr, C. using the term “differing dpi regions” instead of what I was asking about the different dpi within a word., unless you believe that every letter is a different dpi region

  143. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2016 at 10:42 pm #

    You could see part of an image “pixelated” as an indicator of a lot DPI, but that’s really going down what I think is a non-productive path. You can have a very high DPI image of a pixelated original. It really makes no sense to look at an image and talk about its resolution EXCEPT you can’t create detail. That’s why one knows that the Applewhite AP image is not derived from the White House PDF file–because it contains more detail.

    You could stop wasting folks time if you got more familiar with the layers, and the MRC compression process. We wouldn’t have to do all this remedial education.

    trader jack: And there will be no pixel or dpi shown in the printed page. Show me one word ,printed using a digital printer, that will show a different pixel ,or dpi, in the letters of that word.

  144. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund December 7, 2016 at 11:32 pm #

    trader jack:
    vick, I looked at the Sedona monthly, and I can see that different fonts are used,but I can not see where any one word had a different dpi in the word.

    Perhaps you can point it out to me.

    In the top left, the ‘I’ in “GALLERIES” and part of the ‘A’ in “ART.”

    In the bottom left, a bunch of the dots and ‘i’s and ‘l’s in the second-to-last paragraph, the dot of the ‘i’ in “Erika,” and scattered liberally through the bottom three lines of text.

    In the upper right, a number of the individual letters in the text following “ABOUT THIS GUIDE”, including an ‘o’, a ‘y’, parts of several ‘e’s, part of a ‘w’, and some punctuation. Also, parts of several letters in “UPTOWN SEDONA”.

    In the middle right, the text under “UPTOWN SEDONA” has a large number of dots and punctuation marks, as well as a handful of letters at the right edge near the top, and some letters and numbers in the last two entries.

    In the bottom right, parts of several letters in “WEST SEDONA,” some of the dots and punctuation, a couple of ‘y’s at the edge, and a ‘7’.

    This is not an exhaustive list of multiple ppi appearing in words and individual letters in that document.

    And, I do believe , a monthly is printed from type set, or the other way, which this old man has forgotten.

    Irrelevant. This exercise shows that scanning creates multiple ppi in the pdf, irrespective of what dpi is on the original.

    And there will be no pixel or dpi shown in the printed page.Show me one word ,printed using a digital printer, that will show a different pixel ,or dpi, in the letters of that word.

    that is where one letter has a different dpi, or pixel count, in one letter of the word

    Now, perhaps,you are referring to non-digital printers.I don’t know what you think.

    No, I’m referring to scanners and digital documents. I don’t know why you keep talking about printers and printed pages when we are looking at a digital file. A pdf is not a piece of paper, stop treating it like one. There are many scanners that scan pages printed in a specific dpi and produce images with words containing multiple ppi.

    Notice how I keep pointing out there’s a difference between dpi and ppi?

  145. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund December 7, 2016 at 11:56 pm #

    trader jack: As it may be possible, mayn’t it,that you have never seen the original certified copy, and you do not know if it had multiple dpis in words.

    But we have seen pictures of the original certified copy, and the pictures show that there is not multiple dpi in individual words and letters. Didn’t you just announce that a picture of the original should suffice for determining the provenance of the copies?

    And, if the AP copy has none, then it is not a copy provided to them, but a copy they my have been made from a different source

    Unless, of course, the original doesn’t have multiple dpi, but the scanning process created a pdf with multiple ppi (just like the Sedona Monthly example). Then the AP copy, which is a digital photograph (not a scan) of a black and white copy of the original, would not have multiple ppi, because the original didn’t have multiple dpi and digital photographs don’t use MRC (at least until being further processed). MRC is the process by which multiple ppi gets introduced to a digital image (for the purpose of making the file size smaller). Many scanners do MRC automatically, but digital cameras don’t.

    And how ironic that you essentially declare that you know the original has multiple dpi, when you admit that you haven’t seen the original.

    But , believe as you wish, for I have no control over your wishes.

    Indeed, we can’t control your wish the evidence didn’t exist, but we can point out that the evidence does in fact exist, with corroboration from multiple sources.

  146. avatar
    gorefan December 8, 2016 at 12:03 am #

    trader jack:
    Show me one word ,printed using a digital printer, that will show a different pixel ,or dpi

    Here is on like the White House PDF with multiple DPI in the same word.

    At bottom of page the word “printed” in “printed on recycled paper”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140807152604/http://www.newport.gov.uk/stellent/groups/public/documents/planningdocument/cont513447.pdf

    And for good measure here is one with halos around the letters.

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391995/scanned-from-a-xerox-multifunction-device001.pdf

  147. avatar
    gorefan December 8, 2016 at 12:18 am #

    trader jack:

    Perhaps you can point it out to me.

    Here is one where they took a picture of a newspaper clipping. The clipping has multiple DPIs in words in the map of the eastern US.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20131205003144/http://atmuseum.org/1983_exhibit_pdfs/Scanned%20from%20a%20Xerox%20multifunction%20device001.pdf

  148. avatar
    Rickey December 8, 2016 at 2:08 am #

    trader jack: Actually, my 1928Chevrolet in 1938 had a sudden acceleration problem when the throttle linkage to the carb came loose and the carsped upwith full acceleration until I shut off the engine.

    It seems that you have a reading comprehension deficit.

    I didn’t say that it never happens. I said that it “almost always” is caused by stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake pedal. “Almost always” is not an antonym of “never.”

    Further , it appears that the modern cars are susceptible to outside control through the electronic system.

    You believe that people are hacking into car computers and causing accidents? Do you have any evidence of that?

    But do as you wish, you may believe whatever pleases you best.

    Now you owe me a new irony meter.

    According to NHTSA. only 3% of auto accidents are caused by vehicle defects, and the vast majority of those are bald tires or worn brakes. There are exceptions, such as the ignition switch problem with Chevy Cobalts, but they are rare.

  149. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund December 8, 2016 at 2:24 am #

    I once had a foreign object get stuck in the throttle(?) of my dad’s minivan, and was extremely surprised to find myself roaring along an exit ramp at 80 miles an hour with my foot of the accelerator. I stepped on the brake with all my might for about a mile before I brought it nearly to a stop (I was on an exit ramp, so couldn’t take a hand off the wheel to turn the engine off until I reached a straightaway). And because the throttle was partially stuck, I burned through 5 gallons of gas on a 25 mile trip (in fact, I had coasted into a gas station when I unexpectedly ran out of fuel earlier that day, so the object had been in there for longer than that). So when I tried to start it up again, it roared to life and ran out of gas before I could turn it back off.

    At 2:00 in the morning, back before cell phones were a thing.

    Freaky. And a freak occurrence (the mechanic said that he’d never even heard of this happening before).

  150. avatar
    Scientist December 8, 2016 at 6:52 am #

    trader jack:
    vick, I looked at the Sedona monthly, and I can see that different fonts are used,but I can not see where any one word had a different dpi in the word.

    Perhaps you can point it out to me.

    And, I do believe , a monthly is printed from type set, or the other way, which this old man has forgotten.

    And there will be no pixel or dpi shown in the printed page.Show me one word ,printed using a digital printer, that will show a different pixel ,or dpi, in the letters of that word.

    that is where one letter has a different dpi, or pixel count, in one letter of the word

    Now, perhaps,you are referring to non-digital printers.I don’t know what you think.

    Wouldn’t the supposed “forger” know all this? Wouldn’t a real “forgery” therefore be perfect and without such flaws? In fact, I take the supposed flaws as evidence that the document is real.

  151. avatar
    Northland10 December 8, 2016 at 7:37 am #

    Scientist: Wouldn’t the supposed “forger” know all this?Wouldn’t a real “forgery” thereforebe perfect and without such flaws?In fact, I take the supposed flaws as evidence that the document is real.

    Silly. All of the flaws in the document were added by the forger to match what normally happens. Since it has ‘flaws’ that happen in a normal process, we know it is forged.

    Simple.

  152. avatar
    Reality Check December 8, 2016 at 9:45 am #

    Trader Jack

    There is a simple explanation for the different PPI (pixels per inch is the correct terminology) on objects in the LFBC PDF file. It is caused by the application of the MRC compression algorithm used in the Xerox WorkCentre that was used to scan the original document. MRC stands for mixed raster content compression. It was invented to compress documents that are a mixture of geometric shapes like letters and numbers and graphics.

    MRC extracts what it identifies to be graphics and compresses it as a JPG layer. This becomes the background layer of the PDF. It is stored at a lower resolution to save bits because the higher resolution isn’t needed for graphics. In the case of the WH LFBC the background layer is stored at 75 PPI using 8 bit color. .

    What MRC identifies as letters, numbers and similar objects that are the same color are stored at 150 PPI and one color. These masking layers are extracted from the background later leaving “holes” in the background layer. This algorithm allows a fairly complex document to be compressed to an extremely small PDF file that can be emailed or downloaded efficiently.

    On my blog I provide examples of such documents. One of the images is a scan I made on a Xerox Workcentre of a document I made by printing the AP LFBC on a sheet of Simpson green security paper that DOC sent me. Feel free to download it and open it your pirated copy of Adobe Illustrator.

    I am fed up with Birthers making arguments from ignorance, i. e., you are too lazy or stupid to investigate so what you don’t understand is evidence of a forgery. Just because you are biased and can’t understand how modern office equipment works is no excuse for making reckless and stupid claims of forgery.

    This article contains links to PDF files you can download.

    https://rcradioblog.wordpress.com/2013/08/11/xerox-for-dummies/

  153. avatar
    Joey December 8, 2016 at 1:32 pm #

    trader jack: As it may be possible, mayn’t it,that you have never seen the original certified copy, and you do not know if it had multiple dpis in words.

    And, if the AP copy has none, then it is not a copy provided to them, but a copy they my have been made from a different source

    But , believe as you wish, for I have no control over your wishes.

    The data that can be found on any birth certificate that is relevant to being eligible to be president is the individual’s date of birth and their place of birth.
    There is no image of Barack Obama’s Hawaii birth certificate that has ever been seen that offers different data from what was reported in the Honolulu newspaper birth notices for Obama from August, 1961, from the 1964 Obama-Dunham divorce decree, from what was noted in the 1961 student visa extension interview with Barack Obama Senior conducted by INS agent William Wood or from the birth date listed in the Hawaii Birth Index for 1960-1964.
    Since the Article II section 1-relevant data has remained identical whether it was from 1961 Hawaii Health Bureau statistics, from the1964 divorce decree or from the 2008 & 2011 birth certificate copies, discussions of dots per inch and pixels per inch are irrelevant. The data has always remained the same.

  154. avatar
    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger December 8, 2016 at 3:14 pm #

    Could you clarify what you are saying here?

    roadburner: you mean to say that after all this time you don’t know the difference between an online image and a signed and sealed hard copy document, and the fact that the state of Hawaii does not issue BC’s in PDF format?

    *facepalms

  155. avatar
    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger December 8, 2016 at 3:23 pm #

    RE: Jan. 23, 2017. That’s quite specific. Where does this info originate from?

    vladimir putin:
    Mark your calendars, anti-birthers:

    arpaio birth certificate forgery press conference on december 15th

    trump inauguration on january 20th

    federal investigation of obama’s identity documents starts on JANUARY 23

    fat lady sings on (to be determined).

  156. avatar
    Keith December 8, 2016 at 5:27 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Freaky. And a freak occurrence (the mechanic said that he’d never even heard of this happening before).

    I had something similar happen with my 1959 Austin-Healey ‘Bug Eye
    Sprite.

    It had ‘SU’ Carburetors that had an oil reservoir that had to be kept topped up or the needle valve would stick open. Darn good thing it was a manual shift or I’d have been in trouble several times due to my own damn negligence. Yeah, that’s right: driver error.

  157. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 8, 2016 at 5:35 pm #

    It’s the first Monday after the Inauguration. Putin is just showing the standard birther braggadocio. [Lifetime first use of word in a sentence.]

    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger: RE: Jan. 23, 2017. That’s quite specific. Where does this info originate from?

  158. avatar
    Keith December 8, 2016 at 5:44 pm #

    Reality Check: I am fed up with Birthers making arguments from ignorance, i. e., you are too lazy or stupid to investigate so what you don’t understand is evidence of a forgery. Just because you are biased and can’t understand how modern office equipment works is no excuse for making reckless and stupid claims of forgery.

    The only mistake you make in your post is identifying Jack with “the birthers”. He is not a birther – or at least that is not his most significant identifying attribute.

    He is a troll. Pure and simple.

    And like all trolls, he just likes keeping the ants stirred up responding to his nonsensical stick poking. Probably didn’t get enough hugs as a kid or something.

    There was an old story we used to tell about a guy that got a flat tire near the corner of 24th and Van Buren in Phoenix; that is the (former?) site of the Arizona State Mental Hospital. So the guy gets out and changes the tire, but when he goes to put the nuts back on he can’t find them – he’s kicked them into the little irrigation channel that runs along the fence line next to the road. As the driver gets more and more agitated trying to find those nuts, the patient that has been watching him through the fence suggests that he take one nut from each of the other three wheels and that should get him to a tire shop where he can get them replaced properly.

    Jack is much like that inmate – he may be crazy, but he ain’t stupid. He knows there is nothing wrong with the BC and has every claim rebutted over and over and over and over. He just likes to pretend that it hasn’t happened in order to further his trolling “career”.

  159. avatar
    roadburner December 8, 2016 at 8:42 pm #

    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger:
    Could you clarify what you are saying here?

    i’m saying that I am amazed that traitor jack seems to be unable to understand that what one can do to an online PDF image does not happen to the hard copy document, and still hasn’t grasped this simple fact after all this time..

    trying to say what one can do with an online image is proof of forgery is like trying to test drive a car by looking at pictures of it.

  160. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 9, 2016 at 8:08 am #

    I spent a considerable time having to explain to a birther that the pdf wasn’t made in 1961. I had to hold his hand and explain the certified copy process to him. Then he finally asks why can’t they scan the original after explaining to him that no one ever gets their original. Was so enjoyable

  161. avatar
    Rickey December 9, 2016 at 12:41 pm #

    roadburner: i’m saying that I am amazed that traitor jack seems to be unable to understand that what one can do to an online PDF image does not happen to the hard copy document, and still hasn’t grasped this simple fact after all this time..

    It reminds me of the birthers who insisted that Obama’s COLB was void because the campaign had redacted the certificate number by blacking it out. Of course, it was only blacked out on the image of the COLB which the campaign released, as the photos taken by factcheck.org proved.

  162. avatar
    Rickey December 9, 2016 at 12:44 pm #

    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger:
    RE: Jan. 23, 2017. That’s quite specific. Where does this info originate from?

    On the subject of specifics, I’m still waiting for you to tell us when and where you gave your “Monica Lewinsky” testimony to Mike Volin and Sharon Rondeau.

  163. avatar
    Pete December 11, 2016 at 2:06 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: I spent a considerable time having to explain to a birther that the pdf wasn’t made in 1961. I had to hold his hand and explain the certified copy process to him. Then he finally asks why can’t they scan the original after explaining to him that no one ever gets their original. Was so enjoyable

    The amazing thing is that these morons think they’re geniuses, and you’re an idiot.

  164. avatar
    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger December 11, 2016 at 2:11 pm #

    I gave you an answer. Unfortunately, it was censored by Doc.

    Rickey: On the subject of specifics, I’m still waiting for you to tell us when and where you gave your “Monica Lewinsky” testimony to Mike Volin and Sharon Rondeau.

  165. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 11, 2016 at 5:15 pm #

    Any comment accusing a private individual of a crime will be deleted. Otherwise not.

    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger: I gave you an answer. Unfortunately, it was censored by Doc.