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Getting back inside the box

There is a virtue to being able to “think outside of the box,” to come up with innovative solutions to problems. What makes thinking outside the box a good thing is when it is accompanied by a feasibility filter. An innovative solution that doesn’t work isn’t a solution. In the extreme case, thinking outside the box all of the time sounds like a mental illness.

Mike Zullo has never laid out in a neat and organized way how he believes Barack Obama’s birth certificate was forged. He seems now to have admitted that creation of the document released by the White House somehow involved scanning a piece of paper with a Xerox machine (whereas before he said it was wholly computer-generated file). Zullo seems to be saying now that Obama’s birth certificate was assembled from some large number of other birth certificates, one letter from one, one word from another, for some little more than an angle was copied. It seems like a hugely time-consuming task fraught with painstaking alignment and selection. It also requires collusion from someone with a large number of birth certificates at their disposal (i.e., the Hawaii Department of Health). Positing a nearly-impossible document creation process and a big conspiracy is certainly thinking outside the box, but I think that the boundaries of that box are the limits between normal and crazy.

If the job of forging the president’s birth certificate were given to you, how would you do it? It’s relatively straightforward. The hard part, something that even Mike Zullo stumbled over, is getting the form contextually right, knowing all those little penciled codes, and the name of a physician at Kapi’olani Hospital and a clerk at the Hawaii Department of Health.1 Once you know what to put on the certificate, then you get a blank birth certificate form. If you’re the Hawaii Department of Health, maybe you have one in the archives, and if not you can just take any existing certificate and clean it up in its entirety. (Remember that the certificates in the archives are not on security paper.) Next you buy an old typewriter and type the information in. Forge some signatures, photocopy it onto readily available security paper, add a rubber stamp,  seal, and you’re done. I mean, that’s how the guy who forged Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate did it. It makes no sense to get letters from dozens of birth certificates when a typewriter will make a perfect imitation of typewriter.

Indeed before Mike Zullo, the scenario I offered was posited by birthers. This appeared at the RepubX forum on or before April 2009:

They have already prepared the forgery with special paper and ink. The document was printed on a fully functional 1960 Heidelberger printing press located at a print museum in Toronto. Access was arranged by a trustee of the museum who is connected to a large Canadian banking/investment firm with major US interests.

The blanks in the forged form were filled in with an old Underwood Manual typewriter bought at an estate sale in Skokie, IL. The raised seal was the easiest piece to fake, since you can by [sic] a special order corporate seal from just about any online office supply store.

The only reason they haven’t rolled out the foregery [sic] yet is that it is “seasoning” under mild UV light and a back and forth rotation between between a humidifier and a sauna. Get ready….one to two months tops.


1One of the great unsolved problems of the birther movement is that if Obama’s birth certificate is a fabrication, whose certificate has Obama’s number? The one thing that the birthers got right is that birth certificate number are sequential. Some birthers think that the certificate is that of Virginia Sunahara, but if that is so, then who owns the number shown on Sunahara’s certificate? It’s the same problem birthers have with Obama’s social-security number—if it’s not his, then whose is it?

34 Responses to Getting back inside the box

  1. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 13, 2017 at 11:33 pm #

    Did someone ever figure out what model typewriter typed Obama’s birth certificate?

    It looks like the same typewriter model used for the Obama certificate was also used for the Ah’nee, the Coats, Nordyke and 1959 redacted Territory of Hawaii certificate. The numbers are quite distinct. Also the Kaaihue certificate from March 61 looks like the same typewriter. This is the certificate that has a street address, rather than the name of a hospital.

    The Glover certificate from 1960 is distinctly different, and from a different hospital.

  2. avatar
    Reality Check January 13, 2017 at 11:42 pm #

    I seem to recall someone suggested it was an Underwood using Pica typeface.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Did someone ever figure out what model typewriter typed Obama’s birth certificate?

  3. avatar
    gorefan January 14, 2017 at 2:04 am #

    IMO, Iit was an Underwood. This is based on the typed number “8”. Many Underwood models put a small serif on the upper loop. Looks like a cocked hat.

    Here is an example.

    http://typewriterdatabase.com/img/tUnderwood%20_2469_1398740477.jpg

  4. avatar
    bob January 14, 2017 at 2:51 am #

    It’s the same problem birthers have with Obama’s social-security number—if it’s not his, then whose is it?
    Taitz has convinced herself (and other birthers) that it was Bounel’s.

  5. avatar
    trader jack January 14, 2017 at 3:08 am #

    “Forge some signatures, photocopy it onto readily available security paper, add a rubber stamp, seal, and you’re done. I mean, that’s how the guy who forged Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate did it.”

    ! really wish you would not make such a positive statement as it is one that you can not prove. I agree it could have been done that way, but as there is no way that you can know how it was done (unless you did it!) it is surmise and should be so indicated.

  6. avatar
    trader jack January 14, 2017 at 3:23 am #

    the how and why of the poor LFBC, Trump was going to have a speech and mention his candidacy and Obama’s bc problems. Obama and his minions decided they would need to come up with a bc and present it at the same time as Trump’s speech, and were prepared, then they discovered that the bc that they were prepared to show would not meet the new requirements of apr 1 2011 that required the full name of parents to be on the document As the current one had the signature of Ann Dunham Obama, they had to ad the Stanley to the document which required an hurried redo of the LFBC and resulted in the small errors in the document which resulted in the printing changes in her signature as shown by the pixilation of Stanley and Ann.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2017 at 7:07 am #

    Trader Jack is very much thinking outside the box.

    trader jack: Trump was going to have a speech and mention his candidacy and Obama’s bc problems

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2017 at 7:27 am #

    Thanks. The specific sample you gave doesn’t quite match, in particular the letter “M.” The center V is much deeper in the sample than in the Obama certificate. This one looks closer to me:

    http://typewriterdatabase.com/img/tUnderwood%20_1510_1383723373.jpg

    Remarkably, Birthers predicted that it would be an Underwood typewriter back in 2009;

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/04/the-long-form-coming-to-a-theater-near-you/

    gorefan:
    IMO, Iit was an Underwood.This is based on the typed number “8”.Many Underwood models put a small serif on the upper loop.Looks like a cocked hat.

    Here is an example.

    http://typewriterdatabase.com/img/tUnderwood%20_2469_1398740477.jpg

  9. avatar
    Reality Check January 14, 2017 at 8:56 am #

    Doc

    I agree. If you look at the letter spacing on the Kapi’olani certificates certain letters seem to always be shifted left or right. I wrote an article on that but I never published it.

    I am sure with better images an expert could figure it out. (I don’t mean Paul Irey either). The Nordyke certificates are really of poor quality.

    You seem to have quite a collection of Hawaii certificates. Are you going to post them (or links) together somewhere? Are some not allowed to be published? I would like to see the best possible images gathered in one place. I know there are lower quality versions of the Applewhite AP image out there.

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2017 at 9:35 am #

    Randy, I think all of these, except the one I got from ancestry,com, are out there in the wild, and I could link them up. The one from ancestry I think I’ll keep private just because of, well something.

    Reality Check: You seem to have quite a collection of Hawaii certificates. Are you going to post them (or links) together somewhere?

  11. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2017 at 9:41 am #

    You have no way of knowing what I know.

    trader jack: I agree it could have been done that way, but as there is no way that you can know how it was done

  12. avatar
    gorefan January 14, 2017 at 10:51 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Randy, I think all of these, except the one I got from ancestry,com, are out there in the wild, and I could link them up. The one from ancestry I think I’ll keep private just because of, well something.

    Here is the other 1959 State of Hawaii birth certificate

    http://www.brianhoekstra.com/resources/BirthCertificate.jpg

    It was typed on the same model typewriter. There are two typed “8”s on the certificate. One in box 7d and the other at the bottom of the certificate between the Registrar’s signatures. Both “8”s have the serif on the upper loop.

    Both of the available Tripler U.S. Army Hospital birth certificates have different dates for the date accepted by the local Registrar and the Registrar General.

    http://snarkybytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg

  13. avatar
    gorefan January 14, 2017 at 11:03 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The specific sample you gave doesn’t quite match

    Right, I use that sample because it has three examples of “8” with the serif on the upper loop. Not all Underwoods did that.

    IMO, DOH used a Underwood Standard with an extended carriage like this one.

    http://www.venneburg.com/uploads/9/0/4/7/9047524/pic_311.jpg

  14. avatar
    gorefan January 14, 2017 at 11:17 am #

    Reality Check:
    I seem to recall someone suggested it was an Underwood using Pica typeface.

    On the June, 1961 certificate there is a typed correction in box 16 in which they used an elite typewriter.

  15. avatar
    bob January 14, 2017 at 11:40 am #

    trader jack: the bc that they were prepared to show would not meet the new requirements of apr 1 2011

    I get that you can’t help but lie, but why must they be so stupid: a 1961 birth certificate would not be concerned with (mysterious) “requirements” established in 2011.

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2017 at 8:07 pm #

    These things always get weird. It appears that the authentic part of the fake John McCain Panamanian birth certificate was typed on the same machine as Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/McCainMarkup-1.jpg

    gorefan: IMO, DOH used a Underwood Standard with an extended carriage like this one.

    http://www.venneburg.com/uploads/9/0/4/7/9047524/pic_311.jpg

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 15, 2017 at 3:57 pm #

    I’m sure that RC would appreciate the diligence and concern expressed by the three readers who contacted me about the use of the name “Randy” in a reply to RC.

    “Randy Daniels” is an alias RC used when booking birthers on his BlogTalk Radio show, and some birthers thought it was a real name. I intentionally used it in homage to that little birther mistake.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Randy

  18. avatar
    Rickey January 15, 2017 at 4:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I’m sure that RC would appreciate the diligence and concern expressed by the three readers who contacted me about the use of the name “Randy” in a reply to RC.

    “Randy Daniels” is an alias RC used when booking birthers on his BlogTalk Radio show, and some birthers thought it was a real name. I intentionally used it in homage to that little birther mistake.

    RC e-mailed me last March and signed it with what I assume is his real first name. As you say, it is not “Randy.”

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 27, 2017 at 2:04 pm #

    – Polland: No qualifications whatever as an image analysis expert.
    – Zebest: No qualifications whatever as an image analysis expert. Her reports have been found to be incompetent and wrong.
    -Zatkovich: Expert, but doesn’t doubt the certificate. WND twisted his words.
    – Denninger: No qualifications whatever as an image analysis expert.
    – Harrison: No qualifications whatever as an image analysis expert.
    – Irey: No qualifications whatever as an image analysis expert.
    – Hanukoglu: No qualifications whatever as an image analysis expert. The guy is a chemist
    – Vogt: No qualifications whatever as an image analysis expert. His work has been shown incompetent.
    – Adams: Not an expert on anything.
    – Mike Zullo and Sheriff Joe Arpaio: No qualifications whatever as an image analysis expert. Former sheriff Arpaio can’t even use email. Zullo conned multiple times.

    What is extremely curious is that WND failed to mention Reed Hayes.

    Jan: http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/12/10-experts-and-analysts-who-doubt-obamas-birth-certificate/

  20. avatar
    Jan January 27, 2017 at 7:54 pm #

    Dr. Taitz has this comment re: your post as far as Irey is concerned:
    I might add that all of Arpaio’s ‘research’ was originally done by investigative reporters for Dr.
    Taitz. They were well-qualified and even their testimonies did not sway corrupt judges.

    I have read that the Obama’s certificate for being
    born, is in Kenya; that according to the Kenya
    government.

    This is from Dr. Taitz:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “That is absolutely not true. As a matter of fact, in my case in Indiana the Judge qualified Irey as an expert and let him testify. It is in the court records and in an audio which was posted on my web site.”

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 27, 2017 at 10:49 pm #

    Technically, in Indiana Irey was qualified as an expert in typesetting, but his analysis has nothing to do with typesetting.

    Also the Defense had several objections to Irey testifying pending that the judge had not ruled on, so it is a stretch to say that Irey testified as an expert witness. The cross-examination of Irey was not completed. The entire trial was vacated and all evidence stricken.

    Jan: “That is absolutely not true. As a matter of fact, in my case in Indiana the Judge qualified Irey as an expert and let him testify. It is in the court records and in an audio which was posted on my web site.”

  22. avatar
    Rickey January 27, 2017 at 11:37 pm #

    Jan:

    I have read that the Obama’s certificate for being
    born,is in Kenya;that according to the Kenya
    government.

    The government of Kenya has never said that Obama was born there.

  23. avatar
    gorefan January 28, 2017 at 12:27 am #

    Jan:
    This is from Dr. Taitz:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “That is absolutely not true. As a matter of fact, in my case in Indiana the Judge qualified Irey as an expert and let him testify. It is in the court records and in an audio which was posted on my web site.”

    Apparently Taitz did not understand Judge Reid’s opinion.

    Here is what she said about Paul Irey,

    “Mr. Irey, over the objections of the State Defendants, was found to be an expert in type-setting only and was accepted as an expert on that topic only. See also Hannan v. Pest Control Services, Inc. 734 N.E. 2d. 674, 679 (Ind. Ct. App. 2000) (an expert in one field of expertise cannot offer opinion in other fields absent a requisite showing of competency in that field”). Further, plaintiffs offered no evidence that the principles upon which he was testifying are reliable or used by others in the field or peer reviewed in any way, shape, or form. See Ind. R. Evid. 702(b) (expert testimony only admissible where the proponent demonstrates that the scientific principles upon which the expert testimony rest are reliable”); Steward v. State, 652 N. E. 2d 490, 498 (Ind. 1995).”

    Judge Reid also wrote,

    “Plaintiffs provided no competent expert opinions as to the authenticity of President Obama’s Certificate of Live Birth. See Ind. R. Evid. 702(b) (expert testimony only admissible where the proponent demonstrates that the scientific principles upon which the expert testimony rest are reliable”); Steward v. State, 652 N. E. 2d 490, 498 (Ind. 1995).7”

    Here is Footnote 7:

    “At most, Mr. Irey’s admissible testimony is that he reviewed a copy of what had been downloaded from the White House site and that within that single document he noticed differences between the sizes of some of the letters, difference of spacing between some of the letters, and a while “haloing” around certain letters. It is unclear whether “expert” testimony was needed for such observations. All other testimony provided by Mr. Irey, however, is hearsay, irrelevant, not based on personal knowledge, and not scientifically reliable; thus it is inadmissible. Ind. R. Evid. 401, 402, 602, 702(b), 802, 805. As for the demonstrative summaries he presented, again, these were admitted for a limited purpose and do not prove that the Certificate of Live Birth is a forgery or that President Obama is not constitutionally qualified for office.”

  24. avatar
    Reality Check January 28, 2017 at 4:06 am #

    That claim by Taitz really makes me chuckle. Orly had finally found a somewhat sympathetic judge in Indiana. Judge Reid was an awful conservative judge who was near retirement. She decided to give Taitz a hearing. Orly had asked for a full day and Reid gave her two hours. She tried without success to subpoena Zullo. He ignored her. Taitz hauled Paul Irey, Chito Papa, Chris Strunk and her enlarged “zibits” into the court room.

    As a matter of expediency Reid allowed Irey, Chris Strunk, and Papa testify without any procedure to qualify them as experts such as a voir dire hearing, which they would have undoubtedly not survived.

    As Doc also said Judge Sherry Reid decided to rule against Taitz and vacate the entire hearing. We had a boots on the ground legal reporter at the hearing who appeared on a special edition of RC Radio that night.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Technically, in Indiana Irey was qualified as an expert in typesetting, but his analysis has nothing to do with typesetting.

  25. avatar
    Jan January 28, 2017 at 10:52 am #

    http://thepowerhour.com/news4/obama_kenyan_birth_certificate.htm

    Denial is not always
    reality.

    The grandmother, now conveniently
    deceased, concurred re: a Kenyan
    birth.

    This is proof;
    but there are always those
    who deny facts and prefer fiction.

    One can say that the Kenyan government
    lies. And the reason is………………..

  26. avatar
    Reality Check January 28, 2017 at 11:11 am #

    The Bomford birth certificate? Really? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    Jan: http://thepowerhour.com/news4/obama_kenyan_birth_certificate.htm

  27. avatar
    gorefan January 28, 2017 at 12:35 pm #

    Jan: The grandmother, now conveniently
    deceased, concurred re: a Kenyan
    birth.

    Here is a transcript of the call in which a translator says the grandmother was present at the birth of Obama and the grandmother then corrects him.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE (to McRae): No! Obama was not born in
    Mombasa! He was born in America!

    MCRAE: Wh-whereabouts, whereabouts was he born? I, I thought he was
    born in Kenya.

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: No he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

    MCRAE: OK. Do you know whereabouts he was born?

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: (Pause.) Huh?

    MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was gonna go by and see where he was born.

    VOICE (background): It was Hawaii.

    VOICE OF MRS. OBAMA OR ANOTHER WOMAN (background):
    Hawaii.

    BROTHER TOM (background): Hawaii, yeah?

    VOICE OF MRS. OBAMA OR ANOTHER WOMAN (background): Yeah.

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE (background): Yes.

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE (to McRae): Sir, she says he was born in
    Hawaii.

    MCRAE: OK.
    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: Yeah, in 1960 this was Hawaii, where his
    father, his father was also marrying there. This was Hawaii.

    MCRAE: OK.

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: Yeah.

    MCRAE: Was, was, was Mrs. Obama, was sh–was she present? Was, was
    Mrs. Obama, see I thought you said she was present. Was she, was, was she,
    was she able to see him being, being born in, in Hawaii?

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: (pause, silence) Huh? (pause) Uh, yeah would
    you please pronounce?

    MCRAE: OK I’m sorry. I, I thought she said she was present when he was
    born. I was—

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE (sounding exasperated): No, no! The, the
    woman was not present. She was uh not, a what–you see, she was here in
    Kenya, and Obama was born in America. That is, that’s obvious.

    MCRAE: OK.

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: Because, because the grandmother was married
    here in Kenya, and Obama was born in America, oh yeah, so his son, the
    little Obama, was marrying, was marrying, in America, in United States.

    MCRAE: Oh, OK, fine. I mean, I–I just, I misunderstood what she was
    saying. I thought you said she was present when he was born.

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: No, not present there. The present with me here
    was tonight. Not present so she can leave. No she was here in Kenya while
    he, uh, her son, the little Obama, was marrying in America. And, uh, he be
    present if it–

    WOMAN’S VOICE (background): It was in Hawaii.

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: –was in America there, why are they for, they
    go, they go, they go to some place, then the present isn’t here sir, he was
    born there in America.

    But thanks for going down memory lane with these previously debunked claims.

    BTW, just to save time Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital has used that name since the 1930s.

  28. avatar
    Northland10 January 28, 2017 at 12:43 pm #

    Jan: The grandmother, now conveniently deceased, concurred re: a Kenyan
    birth.

    The heavily doctored recording that birthers claim is proof of a Kenyan birth was an interview with Sarah Onyango Obama, Obama’s paternal grandfather’s third wife, not his grandmother. She is still alive and did not state Obama was born in Kenya, despite the interviewer’s attempt to make it appear so.

    Brack Obama’s paternal grandmother died in 2006, before there was such thing as a claim of Kenyan birth.

    Me thinks you are confused about which grandmother said what and when she died or didn’t die.

    The Bomford certificate as proof gave me a good laugh. You really do need to catch up. Not even dedicated birthers would bring up that one anymore.

  29. avatar
    J.D. Sue January 28, 2017 at 1:51 pm #

    Jan: The grandmother, now conveniently deceased

    —-

    Have you no shame?

  30. avatar
    Northland10 January 28, 2017 at 2:06 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —-
    Have you no shame?

    You’re being rhetorical, right? I think most Birthers and RWNJs had a shamectomy at birth.

  31. avatar
    J.D. Sue January 28, 2017 at 3:00 pm #

    Northland10: You’re being rhetorical, right? I think most Birthers and RWNJs had a shamectomy at birth.

    —-

    I’m just wondering when we finally will see some evidence to prove that Orly Taitz is not actually a KGB/FSB agent, de-shamed at birth, in preparation for “operation lady liberty”.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 29, 2017 at 11:09 am #

    Jan: The grandmother, now conveniently
    deceased, concurred re: a Kenyan
    birth.

    Say what? Sarah Obama is still alive in Kenya. She concurred that she was present in Kenya when he was born in Hawaii. She has since given interviews. http://www.salon.com/2012/06/22/barack_obama_wasnt_born_in_kenya/

    You’ve been had

  33. avatar
    Pete January 29, 2017 at 4:34 pm #

    Jan:

    I’m going to make this easy for you.

    Every single thing you’ve heard to the effect of Barack Obama having been born in Kenya, or of his birth certificate being a “forgery,” or of him being “ineligible” because his father was not a US citizen when Mr. Obama was born, is total, absolute, uncut, prime-grade, full-on, 100%, USDA-approved BULLSH*T.

    How do I know this?

    I know it because every single claim ever made to that effect – EVERY SINGLE ONE – has been gone over with a fine-toothed comb, a magnifying glass, a microscope, and x-rays, and EVERY SINGLE ONE has been shown to be nonsense.

    Every single one.

    As in, there’s not anything you can possibly think up to make Obama ineligible – as shown by the fact that thousands of people like you have been thinking up literally hundreds of different accusations for the past 8 years – that hasn’t already been thoroughly – and I mean THOROUGHLY AND COMPLETELY – debunked.

    It’s all nonsense. It’s all bullsh*t for the gullible and those blinded by their hatred of the man. (And that would be you, my dear.)

    No one has ever produced one single shred – not one – of actual, real, credible evidence that Obama was ineligible in any way.

    And it’s all in the archives of this site.

    Open discussions (with free participation from birthers, by the way) of 1961 flight schedules to and from Kenya, historical visa documentation, family photographs, Stanley Ann Dunham class schedules and known movements, PDF layers, MRC image optimization, 1960s typewriters, Xerox image-compression algorithms, hospital construction dates, birth certificates of other people, tape recordings, Hawaii birth record procedures, ship movements, natural law, colonial law, legal precedent, children of Chinese immigrants, contemporary court cases, US Supreme Court cases you’ve never heard of, and far, far, FAR more.

    Every conceivable aspect of history, law, family records, public records, birth certificates, and technology that has the slightest possible bearing on the issue has been analyzed and reanalyzed to death.

    And every claim ever made by birthers – again, EVERY SINGLE ONE – has been shown to be absolute bullsh*t.

    I suggest, therefore, that you might spend your time more profitably (and be less of an annoyance) by educating yourself through a few hundred hours of reading the archives.

    Because whatever you’re going to say next – believe me, it’s in there. And it’s already been completely debunked MANY TIMES OVER.

    [Was that clear? I was trying to make it clear.]