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Arpaio: perjury?

imageStephen Lemons of the Phoenix New Times used the “p” word in his article yesterday, “Judge Snow Rips the Lid Off an MCSO Riddled With Corruption, Confirming My Reporting in the Process.”

Lemons reported last June that Arpaio was paying a confidential informant big bucks to investigate an alleged conspiracy involving the Justice Department and federal judge G. Murray Snow. In testimony last week Sheriff Arpaio and Chief Deputy Sheridan confirmed the payments and the investigation. Sheridan further admitted that they got nothing useful from the informant, Dennis Montgomery, and that Montgomery was just stringing them along.

What Arpaio and Sheridan said in court was that he was investigating an allegation that the CIA had accessed 50,000 individual bank records in Maricopa County and that there was some wrongdoing involving the Justice Department and federal judges, but that Judge Snow’s inclusion in the investigation was incidental. So was the investigation of Snow central or tangential—targeted or coincidental? Lemons wrote:

My information always has been that Arpaio was up to his old tricks, attempting to conflict the judge, find dirt on him, and retaliate for adverse rulings.

A second point of conflict between Arpaio’s testimony and Lemon’s information is about who investigated the Judge’s wife. According to testimony, Arpaio attorney Tim Casey hired the investigator. Casey issued a statement that seems to contradict that. Lemons reported that the County Attorney’s Office was somehow involved.

So far Lemons has proven to be the more reliable source for what’s going on. I hope we’ll know a lot more when court hearings resume next June.

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71 Responses to Arpaio: perjury?

  1. scott e April 30, 2015 at 7:04 pm  (Quote) #

    that “newspaper” has always been tainted. super libs

  2. CarlOrcas April 30, 2015 at 10:47 pm  (Quote) #

    scott e:
    that “newspaper” has always been tainted. super libs

    How have Lemons and the New Times been wrong about Arpaio?

    Specifics, please.

  3. Matt April 30, 2015 at 11:38 pm  (Quote) #

    Doc,

    Is that last link at the bottom of the article supposed to go to a WordPress log in page?

  4. John Reilly May 1, 2015 at 12:13 am  (Quote) #

    I’m guessing the Scott’s structured debate is simply to call people names and not point out any actual errors.

  5. alg May 1, 2015 at 3:33 am  (Quote) #

    Well, I do think it’s fair to say that the Phoenix New Times has a particular political slant it’s advancing and can’t be regarded as unbiased and objective reporting.

    That said, the jewels of facts Mr. Lemons has managed to obtain and publish have really upset the Arpaio apple cart. The whole thing has proven to be a major embarrassment to the MCSO.

    Consequently, I think we can all agree that Phoenix New Times is more “fair and balanced” than FOX News.

  6. The Magic M (not logged in) May 1, 2015 at 4:06 am  (Quote) #

    scott e: that “newspaper” has always been tainted. super libs

    That’s the textbook definition of “insulating yourself from facts”.
    “‘1+1=2’? Oh noes, it’s a liberal source, it must be a lie, so from now on 1+1=3 for every true patriot!”

    If Jesus himself had his Second Coming today, you right-wingers would call him a Communist, a liberal and a “community organizer” (and probably some racist slurs to boot).

  7. Maverick May 1, 2015 at 4:09 am  (Quote) #

    BREAKING NEWS, BREAKING NEWS! (as you know who would say):

    OMG, is it true — after so many years of fantasies and delusions . . .

    Will Sheriff Scooby-Doo and his gang (including Zullo and Gullible-Gallups, Arpaio’s enablers and co-conspirators) be going to jail?

    What will Pastor Gullible say today on Fact-Free Friday?

    Of course, I’m sure he will discuss this universes-shattering development in the investigation, NOT.

    Someone call in today and ask him to comment.

  8. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2015 at 7:56 am  (Quote) #

    scott e:
    that “newspaper” has always been tainted. super libs

    Wow you really refuted the piece, not. Are you always this super lazy scotty?

  9. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2015 at 7:57 am  (Quote) #

    John Reilly:
    I’m guessing the Scott’s structured debate is simply to call people names and not point out any actual errors.

    Yep that’s all he does. He can’t actually refute anything because he’s a coward

  10. bovril May 1, 2015 at 8:19 am  (Quote) #

    Purely as a matter of interest, what is the defining characteristic of this “sooper lib” that differentiates then from a ‘lib’ and how does such a label somehow invalidate fact based reporting….?

    I don’t expect a real answer, nor do I particularly care as I wallow in decadent luxury in the Emirates Lounge in London.

    Single malt in one hand, a rather pleasant Prawn Go’ an curry sitting comfortably below my belt, waiting to spend the next 27 hours in pampered comfort on the way to Melbourne… Best of all 50-50 chance of an upgrade to 1st class all the way down to the ‘lucky country’.

    If that is being a ‘lib’, shoot, bring on more…. >8-) Waaaaaaaay better than pretty much any life the Birfoon tendency will or ever could have.

    Of course the downside is I have to also spend a 2 week period in Bangalore on the return leg beating our consult division with a large and pointy stick for selling vaporware…. Then again I get great food, a great hotel, gratuitous pleasure from disciplining a swathe of entitled MBA’s and excellent retail therapy to placate ‘She Who Must Be Obeyed’.

    Sorry, what if any life is it Birthers have again…….?

    Oh and Doc C can confirm my IP addressing these next 3 weeks if Snotty thinks one is fibbing….

  11. Curious George May 1, 2015 at 9:07 am  (Quote) #

    scott e
    April 30, 2015

    “that “newspaper” has always been tainted. super libs”

    The judge was reported to have read the Phoenix New Times article to Arpaio while he was under oath. Arpaio confirmed the accuracy of the story. An accurate newspaper story exposed Arpaio and sunk his boat.

  12. scott e May 1, 2015 at 9:44 am  (Quote) #

    The Magic M (not logged in): That’s the textbook definition of “insulating yourself from facts”.
    “‘1+1=2’? Oh noes, it’s a liberal source, it must be a lie, so from now on 1+1=3 for every true patriot!”

    If Jesus himself had his Second Coming today, you right-wingers would call him a Communist, a liberal and a “community organizer” (and probably some racist slurs to boot).

    it’s a two way street. i know this paper has an agenda. the libs say that about foxnews (hannity for sure), to an extent, it’s true. the same is true for the relationship some liberal media have with our politicians. i maintain my stance that some of the media is tainted, biased, and without objective purview. there are exceptions, this paper is a good example. i can provide examples. i remember researching their background (phoenix times), i’ll check my notes.
    jesus was a wonderful community organiser, i wish he was mayor of chicago, detroit and now baltimore.

  13. scott e May 1, 2015 at 9:53 am  (Quote) #

    Curious George:
    scott e
    April 30, 2015

    “that “newspaper” has always been tainted. super libs”

    The judge was reported to have read the Phoenix New Times article to Arpaio while he was under oath. Arpaio confirmed the accuracy of the story.An accurate newspaper story exposed Arpaio and sunk his boat.

    that’s a good place to start, source/video please ?? you are suggesting that he will be forced out of office ? that this will lead to criminal ramifications ? i also contend that this sheriff also received more than average response/attention from the whitehouse. i believe politics are at play here.

  14. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2015 at 9:59 am  (Quote) #

    bovril: If that is being a ‘lib’, shoot, bring on more…. >8-) Waaaaaaaay better than pretty much any life the Birfoon tendency will or ever could have.

    You’re English of course that makes you a sooper lib

  15. scott e May 1, 2015 at 10:00 am  (Quote) #

    bovril:
    Purely as a matter of interest, what is the defining characteristic of this “sooper lib” that differentiates then from a ‘lib’ and how does such a label somehow invalidate fact based reporting….?

    I don’t expect a real answer, nor do I particularly care as I wallow in decadent luxury in the Emirates Lounge in London.

    Single malt in one hand, a rather pleasant Prawn Go’ an curry sitting comfortably below my belt, waiting to spend the next 27 hours in pampered comfort on the way to Melbourne… Best of all 50-50 chance of an upgrade to 1st class all the way down to the ‘lucky country’.

    If that is being a ‘lib’, shoot, bring on more…. >8-) Waaaaaaaay better than pretty much any life the Birfoon tendency will or ever could have.

    Of course the downside is I have to also spend a 2 week period in Bangalore on the return leg beating our consult division with a large and pointy stick for selling vaporware…. Then again I get great food, a great hotel, gratuitous pleasure fromdisciplining a swathe of entitled MBA’s and excellent retail therapy to placate ‘She Who Must Be Obeyed’.

    Sorry, what if any life is it Birthers have again…….?

    Oh and Doc C can confirm my IP addressing these next 3 weeks if Snotty thinks one is fibbing….

    i’m not clear whether or not i should answer. i believe you are in uae, lot’s of people are.

  16. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2015 at 10:00 am  (Quote) #

    Curious George: The judge was reported to have read the Phoenix New Times article to Arpaio while he was under oath. Arpaio confirmed the accuracy of the story. An accurate newspaper story exposed Arpaio and sunk his boat.

    Don’t you know, reading is for liberals. Those things called newspapers have words in them that are just too large for Scotty to comprehend.

  17. scott e May 1, 2015 at 10:21 am  (Quote) #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Don’t you know, reading is for liberals.Those things called newspapers have words in them that are just too large for Scotty to comprehend.

    all i’m saying is that they are less than objective, with a bent toward liberal agenda.

    http://sonoranalliance.com/2014/09/26/the-loathsome-phoenix-new-times-6690-hate-filled-articles-against-russell-pearce/

    i could have been a doctor too, wasn’t in the cards. i read the village voice when i lived in manhattan forty years ago, i was pretty young and idealistic. mother jones and rolling stone too.

  18. Dr. Conspiracy May 1, 2015 at 10:25 am  (Quote) #

    You are asking for a source supporting Lemons article saying that Snow handed Arpaio a copy of a Lemons Phoenix New Times article and questioned him on it?

    Let me show you a little trick. Go to google.com and type this in the search bar:

    arpaio snow “phoenix new times” questioned

    The first link is to an article at the Arizona Republic newspaper web site (azcentral.com) that said:

    “On Thursday, Arpaio’s testimony took a dramatic turn when Snow handed the sheriff an article from the Phoenix New Times, which alleged shadowy investigations into federal officials, including Snow.

    Arpaio reluctantly admitted to two investigations: one involving allegations that the Department of Justice was tapping e-mails (including those of Arpaio and Snow), and another that centered on Snow’s wife.”

    scott e: that’s a good place to start, source/video please ??

  19. Dr. Conspiracy May 1, 2015 at 10:28 am  (Quote) #

    That’s not all you said. “Bent” and “tainted” are not the same thing.

    scott e: all i’m saying is that they are less than objective, with a bent toward liberal agenda

  20. Sluffy1 May 1, 2015 at 10:32 am  (Quote) #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Let me show you a little trick. Go to google.com and type this in the search bar:

    Doc is the one with “Mad Skills”… huh Rob?

  21. CarlOrcas May 1, 2015 at 10:54 am  (Quote) #

    scott e: i can provide examples. i remember researching their background (phoenix times), i’ll check my notes.

    The clock is ticking.

  22. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2015 at 10:57 am  (Quote) #

    scott e: i’ll check my notes.
    jesus was a wonderful community organiser, i wish he was mayor of chicago, detroit and now baltimore.

    No you don’t. Because if he was you’d think he had some liberal agenda you know with feeding the poor, telling people they should pay their taxes and helping out the downtrodden.

  23. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2015 at 10:58 am  (Quote) #

    scott e: i’m not clear whether or not i should answer. i believe you are in uae, lot’s of people are.

    Ummm that’s not what he said. Is reading comprehension something that eludes you? He said he was in the Emirates lounge in London. Last time I checked London wasn’t in the UAE

  24. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2015 at 10:59 am  (Quote) #

    scott e: all i’m saying is that they are less than objective, with a bent toward liberal agenda.

    Would you like to tell us what part of their article they got wrong? Is there some other reason you’re not going to read the article? There’s a difference between claiming one is tainted as you have and saying they have a bent.

  25. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2015 at 11:00 am  (Quote) #

    CarlOrcas: The clock is ticking.

    I hope you have a pretty comfortable chair…. you might want to grab a snickers.

  26. CarlOrcas May 1, 2015 at 11:05 am  (Quote) #

    scott e: all i’m saying is that they are less than objective, with a bent toward liberal agenda.

    Are you at all concerned by (aware of?) the “bent” of SonoraAlliance or the original source of what you posted, Gilbert Watch?

    What exactly in that piece do you think provides factual support for your assertions about the New Times?

  27. Rickey May 1, 2015 at 11:22 am  (Quote) #

    scott e: that’s a good place to start, source/video please ?? you are suggesting that he will be forced out of office ? that this will lead to criminal ramifications ? i also contend that this sheriff also received more than average response/attention from the whitehouse. i believe politics are at play here.

    So what you’re saying is that you’ve been paying so little attention to the Arpaio contempt hearing that you completely missed the multiple stories published by the Arizona Republic (where Arpaio’s son-in-law is an editor) and the various Phoenix TV stations about Arpaio admitting that Lemons’ article is accurate. In spite of your ignorance of the facts, you feel qualified to weigh in on the subject.

    As for politics being at play, Judge Snow was nominated to the Federal bench by George W. Bush in 2007. The contempt hearing has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with Arpaio willfully refusing to comply with Judge Snow’s orders.

  28. Curious George May 1, 2015 at 11:28 am  (Quote) #

    scott e
    May 1, 2015
    Curious George:
    scott e
    April 30, 2015

    “that’s a good place to start, source/video please ?? you are suggesting that he will be forced out of office ? that this will lead to criminal ramifications ? i also contend that this sheriff also received more than average response/attention from the whitehouse. i believe politics are at play here.'”

    I could have provided links, but if you were really interested, you could have found them on your own. And while you’re at it, look up “Arpaio admits to contempt of court.” It’s up to the judge to determine Arpaio’s fate. Eventually putting the MCSO into receivership might be a good place to start.

  29. bgansel9 May 1, 2015 at 12:34 pm  (Quote) #

    scott e:
    that “newspaper” has always been tainted. super libs

    Yeah, keep telling yourself that, even though all the evidence points otherwise: http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20131218maricopa-county-supervisors-settle-lawsuit-new-times-founders.html

  30. Curious George May 1, 2015 at 12:40 pm  (Quote) #

    “As he did a month ago, Klayman asked the court to question a witness in secret.

    The witness, Dennis Montgomery, can testify “about the unconstitutional and illegal surveillance conducted by the National Security Agency and the Central Intelligence Agency that is highly relevant and of crucial important … as he worked closely with these agencies following the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001,” said Klayman.”

    With testimony being given in court by Arpaio and Sheridan that the information produced by Montgomery amounted to nothing, shouldn’t Klayman check with his client Arpaio before he goes forward relying on Montgomery as a witness in his Florida case?

    Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/04/u-s-gathering-dirt-on-supreme-court-justices/#1ILb8oFyKBQJbCsr.99

  31. Notorial Dissent May 1, 2015 at 12:52 pm  (Quote) #

    Since when has KKKlayman paid any real attention to facts? I doubt if he’s really even talked with Montgomery for fear he’d hear something that would make his case go away.

  32. bgansel9 May 1, 2015 at 12:53 pm  (Quote) #

    scott e: all i’m saying is that they are less than objective, with a bent toward liberal agenda.

    http://sonoranalliance.com/2014/09/26/the-loathsome-phoenix-new-times-6690-hate-filled-articles-against-russell-pearce/

    Ahhh, yes. Russell Pearce, that man who is so full of Republican goodwill and support that he got kicked out of the state Senate (he was President of the Arizona State Senate before his recall) and then got kicked out of the the Arizona GOP (First Vice Chairman of the Arizona GOP – he officially resigned, under pressure). LMAO Yeah, I can see that you have no clue who or what you’re talking about:

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/arizona/politics/2014/09/16/russell-pearce-welfare-remarks-cost-republican-job/15703701/

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2011/1109/Russell-Pearce-architect-of-illegal-immigration-law-in-Arizona-loses-election
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/09/politics/arizona-recall-vote/

    When Arizona voters do that (many of the same voters who keep voting for Arpaio) there is something wrong!

  33. bgansel9 May 1, 2015 at 1:15 pm  (Quote) #

    Oh yeah, after he was recalled in the Senate, he tried to gain another seat and lost in the Republican primary: http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20120828mesa-gop-legislative-primary-worsley-leads-pearce.html

    He was also discharged from his position as the Director of the Arizona Motor Vehicle Division after the discovery of an ethics violation.

  34. HistorianDude May 1, 2015 at 1:49 pm  (Quote) #

    John Reilly:
    I’m guessing the Scott’s structured debate is simply to call people names and not point out any actual errors.

    Actually, his “structured debate” is to simply not show up.

  35. HistorianDude May 1, 2015 at 1:54 pm  (Quote) #

    scott e: all i’m saying is that they are less than objective, with a bent toward liberal agenda.

    Reality leans left. Any news source that actually is objective will necessarily lean the same direction.

  36. scott e May 1, 2015 at 1:54 pm  (Quote) #

    HistorianDude: Actually, his “structured debate” is to simply not show up.

    you got to make a very nice speech, which i totally enjoyed. i’m sorry if i hurt your feelings, and i did pull a jablonski a little bit, not too bad.

    i had to find out how you (anti Bers) would react, and in what time frame. after all this time i’m ok w/it. i just wonder if fogbow engaged in some pranks from time to time, i’ll have to check my notes.

    anyway we’re all here on one happy page after all, as long as the good doctor is game, and tolerant.

  37. Rickey May 1, 2015 at 1:56 pm  (Quote) #

    CarlOrcas: Are you at all concerned by (aware of?) the “bent” of SonoraAlliance or the original source of what you posted, Gilbert Watch?

    Scott doesn’t appreciate the irony of claiming that the New Times is biased while supporting his position by citing a far-right website.

    Not that bias automatically means that a story is incorrect. Even Fox News reports some news stories correctly.

  38. scott e May 1, 2015 at 2:24 pm  (Quote) #

    Curious George:
    scott e
    May 1, 2015
    Curious George:
    scott e
    April 30, 2015

    “that’s a good place to start, source/video please ?? you are suggesting that he will be forced out of office ? that this will lead to criminal ramifications ? i also contend that this sheriff also received more than average response/attention from the whitehouse. i believe politics are at play here.’”

    I could have provided links, but if you were really interested, you could have found them on your own. And while you’re at it, look up “Arpaio admits to contempt of court.” It’s up to the judge to determine Arpaio’s fate. Eventually putting the MCSO into receivership might be a good place to start.

    it’s ok, i have internet. now, could this case climb the judicial ladder ? or does this judge have final say.

  39. Curious George May 1, 2015 at 3:30 pm  (Quote) #

    It’s really funny how one of imbeciles over at Birther Report is now attacking the artist who drew a picture of Arpaio while testifying under oath. The artists rendering shows Arpaio in almost a fetal position while being questioned by Judge Snow. There have been several articles that have mentioned Arpaio’s slumped posture while on the stand. But, the artist must be biased in her depiction of Arpaio, because Arpaio is a tall, stand up guy, according to the BR faithful. There is no help for these people.

  40. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2015 at 3:44 pm  (Quote) #

    Curious George:
    It’s really funny how one of imbeciles over at Birther Report is now attacking the artist who drew a picture of Arpaio while testifying under oath.The artists rendering shows Arpaio in almost a fetal position while being questioned by Judge Snow. There have been several articles that have mentioned Arpaio’s slumped posture while on the stand. But, the artist must be biased in her depiction of Arpaio, because Arpaio is a tall, stand up guy, according to the BR faithful. There is no help for these people.

    The stupid thing is these people think he’s the most famous lawman ever in American history and his reputation is amazing. Outside of their small circle he’s a nobody. Just some corrupt lawman from Arizona.

  41. Curious George May 1, 2015 at 7:41 pm  (Quote) #

    Speaking about Joe’s confidential witness, Dennis Montgomery, Karl Giddyap was up to his usual nonsense on Fact Free Friday today. He mentioned Dennis Montgomery’s name being revealed by Arpaio at his contempt of court hearing. He acted as though he had never heard Montgomery’s name prior to the hearing. However, this is the same fellow who was critical of the Stephen Lemons’ article that was published by the Phoenix New Times almost a year ago that mentioned Dennis Montgomery. I didn’t think his comment was sincere.

    Two hours out of my life. What a waste of time. Three announcements that the phone lines were open and no calls were taken on the air. Apparently there were no callers.

    Giddyap mentioned the same BS. The investigation is still ongoing. There are legal hurdles. There are connections and interconnections. It’s so deep. He said, “I know very little at this point.” But then went on to say that ZooLow has no intention of “dropping the investigation.”

    Mike Shoe-string came on and there was a discussion about a hate campaign against Arpaio and ZooLow to release all their documents. It was said that it ‘s the job of Congress to do something about the bc. And, A&Z are not the saviors of America. Things are “deep and dark and wicked.”

    During the beginning of the show Giddyap made the comment, while speaking in general terms about alleged police abuse in various cities, “I despise bad cops.”

    Time will tell whether Giddyap’s statement was sincere.

  42. Dr. Conspiracy May 1, 2015 at 8:21 pm  (Quote) #

    Note the Quote of the Day today.

    Curious George: Two hours out of my life. What a waste of time.

  43. Rickey May 1, 2015 at 8:30 pm  (Quote) #

    scott e:
    example: MLK’s
    ‘The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.’

    MLK said that, but it wasn’t an original thought. When he first used it, he put it in quotation marks. The sentiment dates back to 1857 and the exact quotation dates back to 1918.

    http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/11/15/arc-of-universe/

    i say they aren’t the final/only source in this story that’s all.

    The story isn’t over yet, so no one is the final source. And no one ever claimed that the Phoenix New Times is the only source.

  44. Curious George May 1, 2015 at 8:42 pm  (Quote) #

    Dr. Conspiracy
    May 1, 2015

    “Note the Quote of the Day today.

    Curious George: Two hours out of my life. What a waste of time.”

    Thank you, thank you very much. (In my best Elvis drawl.)

  45. Curious George May 1, 2015 at 8:55 pm  (Quote) #

    I spent a few minutes over at BR for giggles. I wanted to read the most recent reactions to Karl Giddyap’s Fact Free Friday program. Not surprisingly, *FALCON* (aka RBG) seems to be having a moment of clarity in his apparent realization that he’s been had by A&Z. I would encourage *FALCON* to continue questioning the lack of information being released by Arpaio and his sidekick, Zero. *FALCON* is too smart to continue to being suckered for more than three and a half years. I may be wrong. We’ll see.

  46. RanTalbott May 1, 2015 at 11:41 pm  (Quote) #

    Curious George: However, this is the same fellow who was critical of the Stephen Lemons’ article

    Did he actually criticize the article? My vague, possibly incorrect, recollection is that he didn’t address the contents at all, but just did the usual birfer “It’s a liberal source” song and dance about the New Times.

    Gallups tried to spin the events by saying now people have some idea of why Zullo can’t simply have his “conferences”, but didn’t explain just what that idea is supposed to be.

    So we have to guess. Mine is that Arpaio can’t have his (which was supposed to come first) because he didn’t get the dirt that Montgomery promised, and revealing what he had done after coming up empty would be suicidal.

    Zullo can’t have his, even with Arpaio’s no longer standing ahead of his in line, because he also got a load of worse-than-useless horse manure from Montgomery, and hasn’t found any replacement that he could spin as being worth the wait and the hype, even by birthers’ abysmal standards.

    And, iirc, Gallups didn’t include his trademark “very soon” or “sooner than later” in this latest non-updating update. Could be he’s started the letdown…

  47. Notorial Dissent May 2, 2015 at 12:21 am  (Quote) #

    I don’t have any doubts about what Montgomery promised the Shurf to hook him, but I’m really curious as to what he promised the Korporal to get him on board. It was probably all bright and shiny and so didn’t take much, but I really would like to know what it was.

  48. The Magic M (not logged in) May 2, 2015 at 5:33 am  (Quote) #

    Curious George: *FALCON* is too smart to continue to being suckered for more than three and a half years.

    Since crazy conservatives tend to become crazier over the years, the question is whether the facts will be able to keep up with his crazy or if he’s going to go the “everybody in the world except me is in on it” route eventually.

  49. Dr. Conspiracy May 2, 2015 at 8:41 am  (Quote) #

    Falcon has invested a lot of emotional capital in these conspiracy theories and it is very difficult to change beliefs after that (I read that in a book).Confirmation bias is a powerful impediment to getting at the truth.

    He gets frustrated and goes negative on Zullo, but some new promise is enough to get him back on the hook. Falcon wants to believe what he does.

    Curious George: Zero. *FALCON* is too smart to continue to being suckered for more than three and a half years.

  50. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater May 2, 2015 at 9:07 am  (Quote) #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Falcon has invested a lot of emotional capital in these conspiracy theories and it is very difficult to change beliefs after that (I read that in a book).Confirmation bias is a powerful impediment to getting at the truth.

    He gets frustrated and goes negative on Zullo, but some new promise is enough toget him back on the hook. Falcon wants to believe what he does.

    Gee it’s the same thing we see time and again from our birther friend “john”

  51. Notorial Dissent May 2, 2015 at 11:08 am  (Quote) #

    You can call it confirmation bias or emotional investment, I just call it native stupidity and ignorance showing itself. Much simpler and to the point.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Falcon has invested a lot of emotional capital in these conspiracy theories and it is very difficult to change beliefs after that (I read that in a book).Confirmation bias is a powerful impediment to getting at the truth.

    He gets frustrated and goes negative on Zullo, but some new promise is enough toget him back on the hook. Falcon wants to believe what he does.

  52. Dr. Conspiracy May 2, 2015 at 11:47 am  (Quote) #

    Actually, I think he’s just an asshole–a confirmed, willful, and fully-committed asshole.

    Notorial Dissent: You can call it confirmation bias or emotional investment, I just call it native stupidity and ignorance showing itself. Much simpler and to the point.

  53. Notorial Dissent May 2, 2015 at 12:30 pm  (Quote) #

    Yeah, that too, also!!!!

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Actually, I think he’s just an asshole–a confirmed, willful, and fully-committed asshole.

  54. The Magic M May 3, 2015 at 4:58 am  (Quote) #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Falcon has invested a lot of emotional capital in these conspiracy theories and it is very difficult to change beliefs after that (I read that in a book).

    The key being the emotional capital investment combined with the time investment.
    I knew a guy back at university who had been working on his master’s thesis for 5 years. He regularly threw out everything he had and started from scratch because of some “revolutionary new idea” that “changed his whole perspective” (now sounds eerily familiar to “universe-shattering” and “turning very dark”).
    Back then, I thought he was just procrastinating like everyone else, but deep down he must’ve known that he had nothing that would allow him to pass but was unwilling to openly admit it to himself.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if he still thinks “I can get that degree if only I come up with one more good idea”.

  55. RanTalbott May 3, 2015 at 5:12 am  (Quote) #

    Notorial Dissent: but I’m really curious as to what he promised the Korporal to get him on board.

    I think it was the “NSA Document” and some Amazing New Technology That No One’s Heard Of&trade for analyzing electronic images. Gallups and Zullo touted the former as “refuting the Xerox claim”, and Zullo mentioned the latter last summer as a tease to convince the suckers that his investimagination of the BC wasn’t over yet.

  56. Notorial Dissent May 3, 2015 at 6:53 am  (Quote) #

    I hadn’t thought about it, but you could be right. Zullo had too much invested in the copy of a copy of a copy of the birth certificate being a fraud, and the workstation explanation really bit him, so I can see that being the magic Montgomery used to get to the Shurf through Zullo. Zullo was certainly gullible enough to believe him since it was what he wanted to hear.

    RanTalbott: I think it was the “NSA Document” and some Amazing New Technology That No One’s Heard Of&trade for analyzing electronic images. Gallups and Zullo touted the former as “refuting the Xerox claim”, and Zullo mentioned the latter last summer as a tease to convince the suckers that his investimagination of the BC wasn’t over yet.

  57. Dr. Conspiracy May 3, 2015 at 2:02 pm  (Quote) #

    The thread hijack has been moved to the Open Thread.

  58. bgansel9 May 4, 2015 at 4:18 pm  (Quote) #
  59. Arthur May 4, 2015 at 7:19 pm  (Quote) #

    bgansel9: Joe Arpaio’s donations are NOT slowing down at all. His crazy supporters are still throwing money in the till:

    One wonders if Arpaio missed his true calling by not going into fundraising instead of law enforcement.

  60. Benji Franklin May 5, 2015 at 3:40 pm  (Quote) #

    Notorial Dissent: I hadn’t thought about it, but you could be right. Zullo had too much invested in the copy of a copy of a copy of the birth certificate being a fraud, and the workstation explanation really bit him, so I can see that being the magic Montgomery used to get to the Shurf through Zullo.

    Karl Gall Oops!: “We’re back Listeners, hereon Free Dumb Friday and I’ve got some BLOCK BUSTER BREAKING NEWS ON the Share If Our Pie-Hole document fraud case against Resident Obama! After all the years of tortuous waiting, – Mike Zoo Low is live on the phone with us to confirm that – get ready Listeners – hold on to your hats – THERE’S A SMOKING GUN! Go ahead, Mike!”

    Mike Zoo Low:”Okay, Karl! Yeah, okay, – the smoking gun. We got it from Mount Gummery – he’s the real deal – secret agent type – but not cheap – no – but he’s got e-mails that – I gotta be careful what I say here – well, stop me right there. That’s all I can say right now, except my lawyer said to add that, everything we have previously announced about the investigations? – well, we TAKE IT ALL BACK!”

    Karl Gall Oops!: “WOW! I mean…….. STARTING OVER! WOW! So we’re not going NOWHERE, ANYMORE! This really is big! ”

    Mike Zoo Low: ”It can’t get any bigger, Karl! Never could! Well…………….now……okay, Congressman Steve Stockman was bigger in getting EVERY Senator and Congress Person behind a Congressional investigation bringing down the whole administration. Until he didn’t. An’ , an’, who could ever forget all the Washington DC VIP’s joining in with major, major, major, Major, Major, MAJOR MEDIA to bust this document fraud thing WIDE OPEN, or, at the very least, to not do anything at all.”

    Karl Gall Oops!: “..and you’re leaving out the Billion Birther March on the White House!”

    Mike Zoo Low:”On that, we’re still counting. Could be between One billion and TWO billion….. could be one hundred and twenty-nine !

    Karl Gall Oops!:” WOW! WOW! Oh,WOW! And can we add, Mike, that all the investigations are going full-speed ahead, no matter what prison or crematorium Our Pie Hole ends up in?”

    Mike Zoo Low:”Yeah, those are matters of no concern, Karl! The investigations will continue at least until Our Pie Hole finds out what ‘Probable Cause’ means. “

    Karl Gall Oops!:”Great developments, Mike! I tell you, I’m shakin’ here and I’ve lost my cool – for those who tuned in late, could you repeat these block busting announcements to honor the listeners for their years of patience in waiting for this Obama-ruining news – go ahead Mike Zoom Low! “

    Mike Zoo Low:”Okay, sure, so just to repeat, and you can take this to the bank – the new developments are so big that I can’t breathe a word of them at this time. In fact, I can’t now, or ever! It’s THAT big! “

    Karl Gall Oops!:”WOW! There’s the DETAIL the Listeners have kept asking for! WOW! I’m SHAKING here listeners – did you – DID YOU-, the LISTENERS – GET WHAT I GOT OUT OF THAT? Of course, I was in law enforcement – so maybe you didn’t get it – but what I THINK I HEARD him saying there was, ‘Folks, we could be releasing this Universe-shattering information about Obama in as soon as, oh say, THIRTY-SIX YEARS FROM NOW! Wow! It’s finally happened! Let’s take a caller! Go ahead caller! Can’t wait to hear your reaction to Mike Zoo Low’s announcement!”

    Mike Zoo Low: ”Karl, while we’re off the air, you need to know, Our Pie Hole is not picking up or returning my calls. I’m getting’ nervous. Where did all that money -? “

    Karl Gall Oops! (shouting):”Hey! Batta-batta-batta-batta-batta- Damn! – Ignore what you just heard, listeners! Obots just hacked into our audio feed to try to make us sound nefarious! Didn’t work, OBOTS! Didn’t work! But, hey! We’re out of time. Keep those donations coming directly to me to protect the Constitution! So long!”

  61. The Magic M (not logged in) May 6, 2015 at 4:07 am  (Quote) #

    Notorial Dissent: and the workstation explanation really bit him

    “It is of no concern.”

    I’m having a hard time believing Zullo would care about a highly technical refutation (the same reason Vattelism never came up in public the way “Kenyan birth” did – the argument required to get the point across is just too long).
    He knows he can brush it off for his birther audience (who wouldn’t accept the Xerox explanation if it was as obvious as “it’s dark at night”) and even the general propaganda value of “it’s forged!” would not suffer if the target audience is required to read dozens of pages about how the Xerox workflow explains everything.
    People tend to go for “we found him next to the body with the smoking gun in his hand” and don’t care for a convoluted medical analysis proving the guy was physically unable to fire the gun.

    Unless of course Zullo is really a true believer who actually believes his “evidence” will go to court one day and needs to be unimpeachable.

  62. RanTalbott May 6, 2015 at 4:46 am  (Quote) #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Unless of course Zullo is really a true believer

    There was a time when I thought that was possible, and he had simply been fooled by his crackpot “experts”. But he’s done too many obviously-dishonest things (like the race code scam, and the “criminal background check for all informants” bluff*) to believe that now.

    * It occurs to me now that he never said that you had to pass the check. Maybe he was looking for additional con artists 😉

  63. Krosis May 6, 2015 at 4:50 am  (Quote) #

    I think that Zullo is a mixture of scamming and true believing.

  64. Notorial Dissent May 6, 2015 at 5:07 am  (Quote) #

    At this juncture, I can’t honestly say that I know or believe that Zullo is either a true believer or a not very good scam artist, or both. I do know he is a gullible fool and idiot, that there is incontrovertible evidence of. That being said, I don’t know if the rest really matters. I do think he was and is an inconsequential non-entity who found his excuse for 15 minutes of fame, and who is now long past his sell by date.

  65. Dr. Conspiracy May 6, 2015 at 3:26 pm  (Quote) #

    I lean towards “both.”

    I believe that there is a better than even chance that Zullo will appear in court in the Melendres case next month. Perhaps we’ll learn something that will help settle your question.

    Notorial Dissent: At this juncture, I can’t honestly say that I know or believe that Zullo is either a true believer or a not very good scam artist, or both.

  66. Notorial Dissent May 6, 2015 at 5:07 pm  (Quote) #

    Not that I have any problems at all with Zullo getting put on the hot seat, but I’m not sure what information he could possibly have regarding Melendres.

  67. Benji Franklin May 6, 2015 at 6:05 pm  (Quote) #

    Krosis: I think that Zullo is a mixture of scamming and true believing.

    I think that Zullo is a mixture of Zoo and Low, and that’s as self-actualizing as he’s likely to get in making a name for himself.

  68. gorefan May 6, 2015 at 11:32 pm  (Quote) #

    Notorial Dissent:
    Not that I have any problems at all with Zullo getting put on the hot seat, but I’m not sure what information he could possibly have regarding Melendres.

    If he appears it will be in relation to the Dennis Montgomery fiasco and the purpose of the trips to Washington.

  69. Notorial Dissent May 7, 2015 at 12:15 am  (Quote) #

    I can see that in relation to the Shurf’s contempt hearings, but I don’t see what that would have to do with Melendres, which is the profiling suit, that as far as I can tell he would have had neither knowledge or involvement in.

    gorefan: If he appears it will be in relation to the Dennis Montgomery fiasco and the purpose of the trips to Washington.

  70. Dr. Conspiracy May 7, 2015 at 12:28 am  (Quote) #

    It is related only because the contempt of court proceeding is within the Melendres case. Zullo would only be a possible witness when describing the scope of the Montgomery connection. However, since it seems apparent that the Montgomery investigation and the “universe-shattering” investigation are one in the same, we might learn something interesting to us. If Zullo testifies, I’d want to get a transcript.

    Notorial Dissent: I can see that in relation to the Shurf’s contempt hearings, but I don’t see what that would have to do with Melendres

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