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Museum guard slain by white supremacist birther

DHS warns of resurgence of rightwing extremism.

I offer my sympathy and condolences to the family, coworkers and friends of  the U. S. Holocaust Museum guard gunned down today by a white supremacist gunman who was also, it appears, a birther. He served 6 years in prison for trying to make a “citizens arrest” of Federal Reserve Board members in 1981 (something the government called “kidnapping”).

James W. von Brunn had strong ties to neo-nazi organizations, and posted links to Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke in some of his anti-Obama rants. As as “birther” , von Brunn was pretty mainstream, demanding a long list of irrelevant documents, and parroting standard birther claims. One such post is on FreeRepublic.com.

WHY DON’T WE SEE ONE WORD OF THIS IN ANY OF THE MEDIA?

…The same Media went to great lengths to scandalize & destroy Sarah Palin. She maintains a 91% approval rating among voters from all parties, thanks to the Internet and investigative journalists who don’t work for the mainstream media.

NOW ——- The Supreme Court has scheduled a Conference for Dec 5th about Obama’s U. S. Citizenship. STILL, not a word about any of this from the Media. If it were not for the Internet and talk radio, American citizens would become the servants of a dishonest & conspiratorial Media.

THINK ABOUT IT. IT DIDN’T USED TO BE THIS WAY! How much longer are we going to sit on our hands & say not a word?

AND DON’T THINK THE MEDIA SIMPLY DOESN’T KNOW – THEY ARE GETTING POUNDED WITH EMAILS ABOUT IT!!!

Obama could not get a simple security clearance with the information the government has on him —- NOBODY COULD!

NOW he is privy to every top secret America has!

What is going on??? WHERE ARE THE GOOD PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY – ARE YOU OUT THERE???

Submitted by: James W. von Brunn

Following is a news clip from Fox News discussing birther hate email in the context of the Museum shooting.

DHS Report

Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recru… by Teleprison.com

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95 Responses to Museum guard slain by white supremacist birther

  1. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2009 at 12:19 am #

    This is one article I would have preferred not to write.

  2. avatar
    richCares June 11, 2009 at 12:34 am #

    I agree, the tone of some of the Birthers that post here is almost the same as this babbling idiot birther placed on his web site. So besides being delusional, some Birhers are dangerous, Orly is definitely feeding these hateful types. Their ridiculous conspiracies drive the hate that leads to this. At least 2 or our babbling posters that want/demand a “war” on this should be closely watched. I don’t have to state their names, we all know who they are.

  3. avatar
    Mary Brown June 11, 2009 at 12:40 am #

    There are also people like Hannity, Limbaugh and others who use language similar to birthers but do not overtly bring up the issue of his birth. (Apparently Limbaugh did just that today.)

  4. avatar
    misha June 11, 2009 at 1:32 am #

    It’s going to get worse, I’m sorry to say.

    First Pittsburgh, then Wichita, now D.C.

    Oklahoma City was when Clinton was president. Some of Orly’s posters are worrisome, as well as here. Limbaugh has now given them legitimacy.

    The DHS report, denounced by the right, was accurate.

  5. avatar
    JM June 11, 2009 at 8:25 am #

    I was impressed to see a Fox News reporter denouncing some of the crazy people who send him emails. Unfortunately he forgot to mention that Fox News is one of the places that has perpetuated many of the false rumors about Obama in the past.

  6. avatar
    kimba June 11, 2009 at 8:33 am #

    Today the folks at FoxNation are calling Shepard ‘Fox’s token homosexual pretty boy’. Shepard needs to be preaching to those he passes in the hall every day, Hannity, O’Reilly, Beck, to tone down their rhetoric. So far it appears that the right and Fox, other than Shepard, are handling this by trying to ignore it. I just hope the birther connection to this guy is made clearly in the mainstream and the common perception becomes, “birthers are nut cases, lunatic fringe”.

  7. avatar
    misha June 11, 2009 at 9:49 am #

    Fox, Limbaugh and the rest of their coterie have blood on their hands.

    They are agitating, and they know exactly what they are doing. Coulter throws red meat to the rabble, and enjoys watching the frenzy.

  8. avatar
    Heavy June 11, 2009 at 11:18 am #

    The shooter was a Chrstian. I guess they are all deranged lunatics too.

    Doc, you have crossed the line with this garbage. I thought you were smarter than that. But, I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.

  9. avatar
    Heavy June 11, 2009 at 11:20 am #

    Your comparisons and accusations are irresponsible.

  10. avatar
    NBC June 11, 2009 at 11:45 am #

    Oh the irony my friend, the irony.

  11. avatar
    Black Lion June 11, 2009 at 11:46 am #

    It is kind of interesting how the birther movement is trying to distance themselves from this guy. It is very similar to the pro-life or anti-abortion movemetn trying to distance themselves from the killer of the abortion doctor, Tiller. In both instancet there has been documented proof that they were followers of the movement. When the birhters say things like “remove the usurper” and “drag him out of the White House” and get their rabble roused up, what did they expect to happen? They don’t think that some of their deranged followers would actual go through with their suggestions? When on Orly’s site, and you see the rantings of Martin Pinsky and Peter Francisco, what do you think? That people that think like them, that call for armed response, won’t follow through? All of the leaders of the birhter movement must take responsibility for what they have created. Just like you can’t yell fire in a crowded room, you can’t make unsubstantiated claims against the President of the US and think that it is OK. No matter how many people hated Bush, his opposition always said that change would come when he was defeated. No one ever advocated killing. This killer also at one time tried a “citizen’s arrest” of federal officials. Just like Orly and Carl Swanson. So when someone tries to act on these illegitmate indictments, what do they think will happen? Unfortunately you may see a repeat of yesterday, with an innocent person paying the ultimate price.

  12. avatar
    NBC June 11, 2009 at 11:47 am #

    Now that’s funny Heavy. You’re really a funny person. I really like how you refrain from presenting a logically, reasoned argument. Was that an oversight?

  13. avatar
    NBC June 11, 2009 at 11:56 am #

    Did the Free Republic realize that they may be destroying evidence?

    According to Daily Kos the thread went missing after the incident, only to be restored later.

    Interesting.

  14. avatar
    Heavy June 11, 2009 at 11:57 am #

    He also hated broccoli. Better watch out for THOSE loonies! I guess every kid under 12 is now suspect.

    You people WILL NOT be forgiven for what you have done to this country.

    Doc, you have gone off the deep end. Sad to see.

  15. avatar
    Heavy June 11, 2009 at 11:58 am #

    Watch out for those anti-Broccolites!

  16. avatar
    richCares June 11, 2009 at 12:06 pm #

    “Now that’s funny Heavy.”
    you can say that again (but add pathetic)!

  17. avatar
    NBC June 11, 2009 at 12:08 pm #

    You people WILL NOT be forgiven for what you have done to this country.

    Hahaha, and you still fail to see the similarities? Oh the irony my dear friend.

    So what did you have in mind?

  18. avatar
    richCares June 11, 2009 at 12:18 pm #

    “He also hated broccoli.”
    not true, as your hero was being charged for murder he said , “…I love broccoli”, so you are a liar!

  19. avatar
    Bob June 11, 2009 at 1:45 pm #

    tRSoL’s “not my fault.”

  20. avatar
    Gordon June 11, 2009 at 2:34 pm #

    Wearing a baseball cap with a C on it does not make one a Christian.

  21. avatar
    Heavy June 11, 2009 at 2:49 pm #

    Great deduction, “Detective”. Did you come to that conclusion all by yourself, Columbo?

  22. avatar
    richCares June 11, 2009 at 2:52 pm #

    heavy says “The shooter was a Christian. I guess they are all deranged lunatics too”

    here’s a quote from your hero Von Brunn:
    “The Big Lie technique, employed by Paul to create the CHRISTIAN RELIGION, also was used to create the HOLOCAUST RELIGION … CHRISTIANITY AND THE HOLOCAUST are HOAXES.”

    don’t you get tired of repeatedly being wrong?

    Then Heavy says “You people WILL NOT be forgiven for what you have done to this “country
    Your ranting about being at war with Obama’s administration, your rants against Americans supporting Obama, calling Americans traitors, All these noxious comments you have made make you a kindred spirit with your hero Von Brunn. More than likely your home page was Von Brunn’s site.

  23. avatar
    JeffSF June 11, 2009 at 3:19 pm #

    Irresponsible? When I heard the news report, I noted immediately about his 1981 attempt to make a Citizen’s arrest of the Federal Reserve Board- read his own explanation http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/06/10/vonbrunn_fed/
    Von Brunn: I attempted to place the FED Board of Governors under legal, non-violent, citizen’s arrest — supported by D.C. statutes, and by Misprision of Felony statute under U.S. Treason and Sedition Law. I charge the FED with Treason, operation of a Fraudulent Enterprise, and un-Constitutional Private Corporate Operations.”

    So I immediately pondered- which whacko’s always accuse President Obama and his supporters of Treason? Why Heavy and Orly of course. Isn’t Orly repeatedly suggesting that people make Citizen’s arrests of supporters of President Obama?

    Until Von Brunn murdered the guard at the Holocaust Museum, it would have been hard to find a substantial difference between him and Orly. Both believe in a citizen’s right to arrest government officials for Treason, without having to avail themselves of traditional, constitutional things like courts.

    I just hope no one gets hurt by Orly’s call for citizen’s to go make citizen’s arrests.

  24. avatar
    ballantine June 11, 2009 at 3:19 pm #

    Nothing wrong with debating these issues. However, even the tamest Birther sites are well aware that a most unhinged element has joined their ranks and it speaks volumes that such element is generally encouraged and seldom, if ever, revoked. When someone acts on these threats, these sites will come to understand the limits, both in a civil and criminal context, of free speech.

    Birthers, meet the U.S. Code, the U.S. Code, meet the Birthers.

    TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 115, § 2385.

    “Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

    Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so…

    Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both…”

  25. avatar
    Heavy June 11, 2009 at 4:01 pm #

    Yes, irresponsible! Watch out for those crazy anti-Broccolites!

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2009 at 4:39 pm #

    Crossed the line? Exactly what am I not allowed to say?

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2009 at 4:40 pm #

    What accusation exactly are you talking about?

  28. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2009 at 4:43 pm #

    Heavy, you can hardly expect that a web site such as this devoted to Obama Conspiracy Theory news, information and evidence would fail to report that an activist for birther causes was prominently featured in the news.

    If the guy had won the Nobel Peace Prize, I would have reported that equally.

    I’m sorry that you find the facts uncomfortable, but they are still the facts, and I think we need to talk about them.

  29. avatar
    JeffSF June 11, 2009 at 6:07 pm #

    Looking at some web comments, I realized that we have three killings recently with a common theme- the soldier killing at the recruitement center by a lone Muslim extremist, the abortion doctor killing by the anti-abortion extremist, and now the guard killed by the anti-government extremist. All three were on the extremes but responding to rhetoric intended to inflame the base. I don’t think you can condemn one without condemning all three, yet I suspect many will be splitting hairs, considering some of these more ‘rightious’ than others.

  30. avatar
    Mark June 11, 2009 at 6:11 pm #

    Officer Johns seemed like a good family guy. Murdered by a racist Birther.

    WTF is a citizen’s arrest anway?? What was he planning to do at the Fed? Slap cuffs on Alan Greenspan and drag him to a local police station so they could book him for treason?

    wnd.com is still at it, pushing the BC story and asking for $$$$. Surely KO’s mention last night brought them big traffic.

    A few months ago I emailed the grand jury guy Swennson and politely informed him that some of his sources of information might be innacurate. He referred me to Orly.

    “Birth Certificate” and “Usurper” are dog whistles, of course. I hope that law enforcement keeps these dogs on a short leash.

  31. avatar
    Bob June 11, 2009 at 6:43 pm #

    What was he planning to do at the Fed? Slap cuffs on Alan Greenspan and drag him to a local police station so they could book him for treason?

    More or less:

    “I intended to hold the Board prisoners in the Board Room, demand that their fellow conspirators at CBS provide national TV-hookup; then, over TV to figuratively hand over the felons to the American people with an explanation of my charges against the FED. I then intended to hand over the prisoners, unharmed, to the President of the United States. I expected to stand trial in a U.S. Federal District Court, and prove the FED’s culpability to a jury of my peers. I expected the jury to find the FED guilty and my citizens arrest of the felons upheld by statute. Thus, We the People would issue a mandate to the Congress of the United States to bring proceeding against the FED, a privately held corporation, under Federal Tort Law.”

    Putting CBS on trial, however, sounds like a great idea.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2009 at 7:33 pm #

    There’s that “We the People” phrase again used as a noun and referring to the speaker.

  33. avatar
    TRUTH June 11, 2009 at 8:20 pm #

    Doc, IF your going to tell the facts, how about ALL of them. Your quick to point out that Insane lunatic was a Birther, for WHATEVER that is worth, a senseless retarded argument over a piece of paper your pathetic POTUS has done so well in making sure it hasn’t been seen for reasons unknown.

    But as for you pointing out this killer was a birther, why did you fail to mention he is a registered Democrat in the State of Maryland? So if a birther is a killer lets also make sure it is said a Democrat is a Killer.

    Oh Yeah, The Killer was Antisemitic(that means Jew hater NBC). So are Rev. Wright and Louis Farrakhan. I almost forgot, James Von Brunn hates Both Bush’s and McCain also.

    But what gets posted, that he is a Birther. And Look DOc, you have others calling that killer a “Racist BIRTHER”. Hell, he’s a White man, why not point THAT out?

    WOW, the liberal media jumped FAST onto what they THOUGHT was Big news, that Brunn was a Right-Winger….WRONG!!! Yep, its Big news if its anti-Right, but “shhhhh…hush…don’t tell what is party is when the truth is found out” Charlie Gibson knew today and avoided it.

    I’ve never had one real issue with your points of view, although we differ, until this ridiculous post. You even added a Foxnews blurb that is PRO-your point of view, how Ironic is THAT?! You would be best deleting this entire post and just leaving a eulogy for the slain guard, God rest his soul.

  34. avatar
    TRUTH June 11, 2009 at 8:25 pm #

    WOW! I even overlooked that piece from the HomelandSecurity you added on RightWing Extremism. You added that to the WRONG POST DOC!!! This killer lunatic is a LEFTY! He’s on Your Team.

    Its really senseless pointing out WHAT the fool believes in, he is a Kook!! There are Nuts on BOTH sides. WHY take this opportunity, when a man is slain, to attempt to make the other side look bad? Poor Journalism. Or… Common Liberal media response.

  35. avatar
    TRUTH June 11, 2009 at 8:28 pm #

    My Mistake..it says “WHITE supremist” in the title. I was so floored over this birther issue I forgot what the title said.

  36. avatar
    Bob June 11, 2009 at 9:28 pm #

    Per the Sacramento County Superior Court (search for case no. 2008-80000096), petitioners in Keyes v. Bowen to pay respondents $1390 in costs.

  37. avatar
    richCares June 11, 2009 at 9:36 pm #

    Truth is telling us Von Brunn was a registered Democrat and a Lefty(offers no reliable proof- typical of right wingers)
    Here’s what we know so far about him.
    1. He hates the US government.
    2. He hates liberals.
    3. He said President Obama was “created by Jews.”
    4. He believes Obama wasn’t born in the United States.
    5. He holds conspiratorial views about the federal reserve.
    6. He feared the takeover of the country by “black governors.”
    7. He was active in the white separatist movement.
    8. He is an anti-Semite.
    9. He is a known associate of William Pierce, author of The Turner Diaries.
    10.He is a known associate of Stan Hess, formerly of David Duke’s European rights organization.
    11.His birther screed was posted approvingly at Free Republic.
    12.He idolized John G. Crommelin, a McCarthyite and segregationist who ran for Governor of Alabama for the ultra right-wing National States’ Rights Party.
    13.He calls himself a “White Christian.”
    Yep, sounds like a typical lefty to me.

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2009 at 10:39 pm #

    My my, we are a bit testy. This isn’t a news site. It’s an Obama conspiracy site. It’s the Obama conspiracy angle of interest here. And of course the anti-semitic, white racist, neo-nazi stuff is pretty well covered elsewhere.

  39. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2009 at 10:41 pm #

    Lefty? You have that wrong. Communists are left; fascists are right. Von Brunn was a neo-nazi.

  40. avatar
    TRUTH June 12, 2009 at 6:43 am #

    your an idiot Richcares. You make a statement I dont offer any proof, then you SPEW out a bunch of stuff you read in the news, SAME place I read mine. Where is YOUR proof genious? (Typical of right wingers? hahaha..and you show no proof, what a Class Act) Your also a fool for complaining on and on about this. The man was a nutcase, mental. He also hated Bush and McCain, but you fail to mention that, just as you do he is a registered Democrat. I don’t Care. IT DOESN”T MATTER what he believes because he is obviously CRAZY, as are you for trying to make it a Party thing.
    What do you think, the RNC ordered a Hit? You may as well say that because it’s not dumber than what your saying already. BIrthers have nothing on you whiners about this case. Your pathetic for using a situation where a man is killed in attempt to gain party points.

  41. avatar
    TRUTH June 12, 2009 at 6:46 am #

    Hey, there was a Car Wreck today, man ran HeadON into this car with a family of 5 blacks. He had a McCain bumper sticker. I guess them damn Birthers are out killing black families with their automobiles now. Thats the same theory this pathetic story leads one to believe at least.

  42. avatar
    richCares June 12, 2009 at 9:00 am #

    funny guy that TRUTH, his screeds suggest that he is “heavy”.

  43. avatar
    Black Lion June 12, 2009 at 9:13 am #

    Bob, has this been reported yet? I am sure Orly and Phil would have a cow if this case has been decided. I was looking to see if there have been any reports but have been unable to find any.

  44. avatar
    Black Lion June 12, 2009 at 9:52 am #

    I think what we are begining to see was is the culmative effect of the hate mongering of the people like Orly, channels like Fox, and websites like World Net Daily and repubx. Some of the more extreme of these followers are created by these individuals and sites. A perfect quote by Chip Berlet sums it up best:

    “Apocalyptic aggression is fueled by right-wing pundits who demonize scapegoated groups and individuals in our society, implying that it is urgent to stop them from wrecking the nation. Some angry people in their audience already believe conspiracy theories in which the same scapegoats are portrayed as subversive, destructive, or evil. Add in aggressive apocalyptic ideas that suggest time is running out and quick action mandatory and you have a perfect storm of mobilized resentment threatening to rain bigotry and violence across the United States.”

    And it is not only ideology but another reason or motive is profit. WND as usual blames everything on Obama, is now blaming him for the “Swine Flu”. They make the ridiculous claim that “The Globalists dug up frozen 1918 flu death cadavers in Siberia, extracted the DNA of the deadly Spanish flu and combined it with the very deadly Bird Flu (H5N1), mixed it with Swine Flu (H1N1) and merged it with a “carrier agent” of the highly contagious generic flu we all get to trigger certain and rapid human-to-human transmission.” http://www.wholecure.com/

    Of course for $29.95 you can purchase an agent that can protect you. This isn’t the first time WND has attempted to profit off President Obama:

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/1897317/wnds-obamahate-extends-to-ads/

    Not only do these sites and individuals incite violence and use every opportunity to smear Obama and claim that he is a facist or a nazi:

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2009/wndobamanazi.html

    If you put all of these things together you can begin to see why the more unhinged of these individuals like von Brunn will resort to violence. Whether they like it or not Fox, websites like WND, and individuals like Orly or Rush are partly responsible for what happens.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 12, 2009 at 10:11 am #

    It’s a relatively old case, decided a couple months ago. Keyes v. Obama is the more recent case.

  46. avatar
    Black Lion June 12, 2009 at 10:17 am #

    On the same note Jeff Schreiber who bloggs on AmericasRight.com, which seems to be an anti-Obama website, has the following to say:
    “The lesson here should be that characterizing people doesn’t work. This past fall, I spent a great deal of time analyzing one of the citizenship-related lawsuits in particular. While I said many times that I could by no means whatsoever attest to the veracity of the claims, I followed the suit nonetheless because I found the constitutional aspects interesting. I followed the suit because I work in the court in which everything was filed and therefore enjoyed better access than anyone else (it was because of that access that I was able to break the story on the suit in the first place). But as the process went along, what I thought was an interesting constitutional question and a justifiable desire to see public officials vetted became a virtual lynching, became for many less driven by the law and more driven by identity politics. Many e-mails I received had nothing to do with the Constitution or the presidency. Many of the comments I rejected from this site had nothing to do with any of the legal questions, regardless of how outlandish or lacking in anything but circumstantial evidence. At one point, it became too much and I tried my best to warn everyone of the dangers of Obama Derangement Syndrome. Soon thereafter, I abandoned the citizenship controversy for good. I don’t think I even mentioned it again until yesterday.

    But that’s also where the dangers of characterizing people comes into play. Throughout the e-mails, throughout the comments, never once did I feel as though any of the people sending them were on the verge of snapping or acting out violently. Yes, they were frustrated. Yes, they were at times obscene. Yes, the language they used offended me, someone who doesn’t easily become offended. But at no point whatsoever was there any worry on my part that violence would come from it. I was worried about political difficulties, that the people who had become consumed with perceived unanswered questions would become the right-leaning equivalent of the Code Pink crowd, that chants of “HE’S A USURPER” would replace “BUSH LIED AND PEOPLE DIED,” and that people like myself who spends so much time trying to point out specific policy-based problems with the Obama administration would be met with the same rolled eyes that conservatives displayed toward the Bush-hating left.”

    I find that interesting because at least some on the right are begining to see the effect their speech is having on some individuals. Sheppard Smith and Schreiber seem to want to take some responsibility and point out where some of the blame should lie. Of course you will never see Limbaugh or people of his ilk take any responsibility.

  47. avatar
    Black Lion June 12, 2009 at 10:21 am #

    Phil posted the following over at his TRSOL site. It was kind of a wrap up sent to him by a concerned follower which aggregated a number of statements and claims made by the Hawaiiian department of Health and some third party sites regarding President Obama’s COLB. (see below) Interesting stuff.

    “On June 13, 2008, Obama’s campaign finally released a copy, while launching a fact-check Web site of its own, Fightthesmears.com. The site is a direct response to allegations about Obama that won’t go away: He’s Muslim. He took the oath of office on a Koran. He refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance. PolitiFact has researched all of these accusations and none of them are true.

    When the birth certificate arrived from the Obama campaign it confirmed his name as the other documents already showed it. Still, we took an extra step: We e-mailed it to the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records, to ask if it was real.

    “It’s a valid Hawaii state birth certificate,” spokesman Janice Okubo told us.

    ============

    The Hawaii Department of Health receives about a dozen e-mail inquiries a day about Obama’s birth certificate, spokesman Okubo said.

    “I guess the big issue that’s being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature,” Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those things are on the back of the document. “Because they scanned the front … you wouldn’t see those things.”

    Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received.

    And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? “When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.”

    Still, she acknowledges: “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.”
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

    ==========================

    [interesting stuff and Janice Okubo communications]
    http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm
    Janice Okubo, Director of Communications of the State of Hawaii Department of Health, told Israel Insider: “At this time there are no circumstances in which the State of Hawaii Department of Health would issue a birth certification or certification of live birth only electronically.” And, she added, “In the State of Hawaii all certified copies of certificates of live birth have the embossed seal and registrar signature on the back of the document.”

    ===========================

    Chicago Tribune, October 30, 2008
    “The Swamp” November 3, 2008 [the Washington DC bureau of the Chicago Tribune]

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter154.htm
    http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/oct/30/nation/chi-birth-certificate-30-oct30
    Contacted Wednesday, Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo cited Hawaii state privacy laws and guidance from the state attorney general in saying she was not permitted to confirm the authenticity of the certificate released by the Obama campaign.
    But she said it appeared similar to other Hawaii birth certificates.
    “It looks exactly the same as my own birth certificate,” Okubo said.

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter155.htm

    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html
    Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

    “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.”

  48. avatar
    Black Lion June 12, 2009 at 10:23 am #

    OK…Thanks Dr. C…

  49. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 12, 2009 at 10:29 am #

    My reading of extreme white racist literature shows me that a central tenet of that belief system is that a black man should never be in authority over a white man. President Obama threatens white racists at a fundamental level, which can and does lead them to deny the fact that Barack Obama is president, and this leads them into the Birther and NBC arguments.

    My opinion based on what I know of white racist and birther mindsets informs me that extreme white racists have a predilection to become birthers. This is not in any way to say that birthers are necessarily racists, nor does it suggest that birthers are necessarily going to take their “we the people” attitude and become judge, jury and executioner. Nevertheless, any movement that is built on anger, fans anger and reinforces anger as a matter of course, whether racism or birtherism, bears the risk of inciting real violence.

    My article is presented primarily as as a news item and it is not intended to stereotype birthers. Nevertheless von Brun’s birther rhetoric is remarkably similar to Orly and her faction, and the fact that these two groups share views is something to be examined. For some reason Truth and Heavy express the view that this may not be discussed.

  50. avatar
    Heavy June 12, 2009 at 10:32 am #

    Do, you are “Allowed” to say anything you wish and usually do. Then line you crossed is evident. Don’t try playing dumb. Leave that to us “Birthers”.

    Associating this nutcase and his actions to your messiah’s eligbilty status is desperate at best. Stick to Orly and hating America. That suits you and your ilk much better.

  51. avatar
    Bob June 12, 2009 at 11:27 am #

    “Reported” how? Guess it is being reported here and now.

    The judgment with the costs bill is a publically filed document, so anyone can see it. I would guess Taitz, Berg, etc. don’t know about because it isn’t “their” case (despite Taitz being counsel).

  52. avatar
    Bob June 12, 2009 at 11:37 am #

    In other words: correlation and causation.

    There’s nothing particularly relevant to this crime about von Brunn allegedly being a Democrat, Mensa member, broccoli fanatic, etc.

    But some extremist groups and birthers use the same rhetoric and pseudolaw, and associate with the same people. Indicators of similar thought patterns.

  53. avatar
    NBC June 12, 2009 at 12:06 pm #

    Associating this nutcase and his actions to your messiah’s eligbilty status is desperate at best. Stick to Orly and hating America. That suits you and your ilk much better.

    It’s an obvious association, not lost on more reasonable people, but I guess anyone who believe that DrC or others who are pursuing the truth here are haters of America shows how out of touch with reality you really are.

    Sad really.

    PS: Rachel Maddow had an interesting segment on the certificationable (sic) actions of the “birthers”.
    That some people seem to hate their country so much that they are willing to claim, without much evidence, that their President is ineligible is something that is definitely worth exploring.

  54. avatar
    NBC June 12, 2009 at 12:06 pm #

    Hahaha… Irony dripping off posting once again

  55. avatar
    Heavy June 12, 2009 at 12:07 pm #

    Doc, your “Opinion” that those who question your messiahs’ eligibilty are racist is disgusting and intellectually dishonest and YOU KNOW IT!

    You can try to cover your tracks, but the truth is you think that we are all racists! YOU, sir are the racist. YOU are the one who, by casting your vote for this piece of garbage, think hat you are absolved of your racist past. You are NOT!

    Don’t try to pin your racist guilt on others who just want the truth.

  56. avatar
    richCares June 12, 2009 at 12:34 pm #

    “Don’t try to pin your racist guilt on others who just want the truth.”

    hey TRUTH (aka heavy), still a funny guy, your racist views are shining through, go on, give us more laughs!

  57. avatar
    NBC June 12, 2009 at 12:38 pm #

    You can try to cover your tracks, but the truth is you think that we are all racists! YOU, sir are the racist. YOU are the one who, by casting your vote for this piece of garbage, think hat you are absolved of your racist past. You are NOT!

    Oh the irony…
    In the mean time the US is moving forward to a better future, shaking of its brutal past which includes illegal torture, rendition and an illegal war.
    Time to restore this Countries Constitution once again

  58. avatar
    richCares June 12, 2009 at 12:47 pm #

    one of the most racist comments heard from heavy/truth

    “You can try to cover your tracks, but the truth is you think that we are all racists! YOU, sir are the racist. YOU are the one who, by casting your vote for this piece of garbage, think hat you are absolved of your racist past. You are NOT!”

    now sing this to the tune of “Frosty the Snowman”

    heavy the racist, what a hateful guy he is,
    he shouts the things that racists do and yet he says he’s not
    he says he’s got a friend that’s black (probably tied up in the shack)
    heavy the racist, what a hateful guy he is,
    like all of them he denies the truth and that’s his other name
    you can call him Dip or call him Dumb, they both mean the same

  59. avatar
    richCares June 12, 2009 at 1:15 pm #

    NBC reports:
    “Breaking news: Berg’s super-sekrit case unsealed and denied with prejudice”

    maybe this was the case that jtx kept touting, well the tout has ended! Sorry jtx!

  60. avatar
    TRUTH June 12, 2009 at 3:01 pm #

    richycareless, if your insinuating I am Heavy, your ignorance is shining through a little today. I have nothing against Heavy, he is much more pursuant of the BC issue than myself, which is his right and fine by me. Doc knows who I am, and I ain’t him.

    Write some more witty tunes now. Oh yeah, don’t forget to Show the Proof! That’s your personnel saying, “Where’s the Proof, Where’s the Proof?” then you go on to spew comments, WITHOUT ANY PROOF.

    Here’s some proof for you Einstein.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=35192

    Be careful, it requires reading, and it isn’t vomit from a liberal media source. It could require you to THINK.

  61. avatar
    TRUTH June 12, 2009 at 3:35 pm #

    Doc, if your happy with a posting such as this, Knock yourself out friend, post’em all day long. But your following right in the tracks of the mindless liberal media that are Quick to toss out their First impression, only to later find out it isn’t exactly accurate, or at least not complete…but then WHY tell the WHOLE Truth when half fits your agenda better? I’m disappointed actually, knowing how you NORMALLY keep up to quality research before you post. OH well, nobody is perfect, I’m sure you’d be the first to admit.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=35192

    http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-722-Conservative-Politics-Examiner~y2009m6d10-Holocaust-Museum-shooter-von-Brunn-a-911-truther-who-hated-neocons-Bush-McCain

  62. avatar
    Mary Brown June 12, 2009 at 3:51 pm #

    Go to a site called What’s Your Evidence.

  63. avatar
    richCares June 12, 2009 at 4:25 pm #

    “Be careful, it requires reading, and it isn’t vomit from a liberal media source. It could require you to THINK.”

    “Frontpage Magazine”,less credibilty than WND, thanks for the laugh!

  64. avatar
    richCares June 12, 2009 at 4:32 pm #

    Credibility:
    In 2006, Front Page Magazine accused a Brandeis University Professor of including anti-American bias in his classroom. The Justice, one of the University’s independent student newspapers, discovered that the article lacked significant evidence and questioned much of the writer’s sources. The Front Page article also failed to attribute quotes and information that it lifted from the Justice.

    Horowitz also claimed that a Pennsylvania State University biology professor showed his students the film Fahrenheit 9/11 just before the 2004 election in an attempt to influence their votes. Horowitz later acknowledged that he had not been able to confirm this story

    There’s a lot more!

  65. avatar
    Gordon June 12, 2009 at 4:49 pm #

    Rush came up with those nonsense talking points yesterday.

  66. avatar
    Gordon June 12, 2009 at 5:24 pm #

    Those kind of rags are the lifeblood of people like the TRUTH and Heavy. They look for garbage to confirm preexisting beliefs.

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 12, 2009 at 6:06 pm #

    I really don’t think all birthers are racists. I don’t even have an opinion on whether most birthers are racists. I would venture an opinion that nearly all birthers strongly dislike Obama for some other reason (whether it’s his race, his liberalism or his not being Hillary).

  68. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 12, 2009 at 6:08 pm #

    Truth ain’t Heavy.

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 12, 2009 at 6:51 pm #

    While not quite surprised at some of the negative reaction this article, I frankly do not understand its intensity.

    Since the very beginning Obama Conspiracy Theories has use exaggerated and sometimes misleading headlines. In a typically styled OCT headline, this story would be “Birther murders museum guard.” I spent a fair bit of time on the headline because the subject was sensitive, and I didn’t want to give TOO WRONG an impression, so the head line was lengthened to include the fact that von Brunn was a white supremacist.

    In the text of the article, you will note an even stronger de-emphasis of the birther angle when I used the phrase “white supremacist gunman who was also, it appears, a birther.”

    Later on the quotation from von Brunn had much of the birther material edited out, leaving only some of its flavor, and emphasizing the national security angle.

    Further I stated that von Brunn’s birther rhetoric wasn’t extreme (from which I thought people would understand that it was other areas where his extremism expressed itself).

    The fact is that this web site is about Obama Conspiracy Theories, and when a birther is in the news, whether for good or bad, I cover it.

    I think some of the visitors here are reading more into the article than is really there, and drawing from their prejudices about liberals as they try to read between the lines.

    Finally, I think it a bit unfair for someone who bases much of their understanding of Barack Obama from “guilt by association” (the book, The Case Against Barack Obama comes to mind) would be so upset at a hint of a negative association attached to the birther movement.

    If you find the way this article was written is unfair, then I suggest you think of it being 10 times worse, and then look in the mirror.

  70. avatar
    Ian Gould June 13, 2009 at 5:49 am #

    So let me see if I can summarise Heavy’s position:

    “This is just the sort of unconscionable slander I’d expect from a bunch of commie-fascist-Satanist-Baby-killer-Traitor-dole cheat-liar-con artist-America-haters who support an illegal alien-traitor-drug addict- former male prostitute- baby-killer-Satanist- Commie-Fascist-Nazi-con artist- welfare fraudster – forger- crypt-Muslim who sells secret governemnt info to Iran.

    But we’ll get ours soon – say isn’t that a direct quote from von Brinn.

  71. avatar
    Ian Gould June 13, 2009 at 5:59 am #

    “YOU, sir are the racist. YOU are the one who, by casting your vote for this piece of garbage, think hat you are absolved of your racist past. You are NOT!

    Don’t try to pin your racist guilt on others who just want the truth.”

    Did you ever pause to consider that some of the posters you’re abusing may be black?

    I’m white but I feel no guilt about the historical treatment of African-Americans since:

    a. I’m an Australian and

    b. At the time my ancestors were busy being chased around the Lodz Ghetto by Cossacks or chased around the Scottish highlands by the Duke of Clarence’s men.

  72. avatar
    Ian Gould June 13, 2009 at 6:10 am #

    Am I the only person who when they read Heavy or Truth’s “You’ll all be sorry soon” two-step (“This is not a threat but something bad will happen to you – soon. Real soon. But I’m not saying what or when.”)visualises Commandant Le Strade from the Police Academy?

    “He … did a bad thing. He …did a very bad thing.”

  73. avatar
    thisoldhippie June 13, 2009 at 10:38 am #

    It seems to me that anytime someone prefaces a statement, i.e. “you will get yours,” with “this isn’t a threat,” then the statement is exactly that – a threat. While many birthers may not be dangerous or violent, their mob mentality can easily be led in that direction by someone such as Orly Taitz because they fervently believe they are protecting their country and family.

  74. avatar
    Heidi June 13, 2009 at 12:05 pm #

    Talking about “scary emails Fox is receiving” take a look at Ytube comments about president Obama, specially on this preacher D. Manning all the horrendous things he said about president Obama and his family! He is suppose to be a man of “God”?? What kind of Bible does he reads?? He gives God a bad image. He is provoking hate and violence! Is there any way to stop the things he say? I hope the Fbi is watching him and the people posting in his videos.

  75. avatar
    Gordon June 13, 2009 at 12:38 pm #

    As a younger man, Dr. Manning burglarized homes, mostly on Long Island. He spent about three and a half years in prison in New York and Florida for burglary, robbery, larceny, criminal possession of a weapon, and other charges before his release in 1978. While in prison, he became a devout Christian.

    As the minister of ATALAH Baptist Church, he is widely quoted by Right Wing extremist, concerning his views on Obama. I guess because the good Rev. is A.A they feel that he lends credence to their views. Doesn’t matter that he states that the name of Harlem should be ATALAH, and that he advocates all non A.A business owners and residents should leave.

  76. avatar
    Gordon June 13, 2009 at 12:42 pm #

    I always think they are referring to some nut job like Brunn stepping up. I don’t think they really believe this has a real future in court.

  77. avatar
    TRUTH June 14, 2009 at 11:10 am #

    As long as it isn’t a democratic or liberal spun news media it isn’t credible in your eyes richless. That’s your loss for being in luv with MSNBC “the Obama Network” and their sister networks. The only laugh is you and who you believe in. $600 billion tax increase coming, surprise surprise. Info for another post.

  78. avatar
    TRUTH June 14, 2009 at 11:19 am #

    I can’t even get past your first paragraph. Anyone who whines about Fox News being a Hate network is just wrong, with No Clue what Fox has to provide.

    Fox is the boldest network that challenges questionable policies that the President and his Staff have so far produced. That’s what media is supposed to do, give the American People an alternative perspective. The other networks ‘sometimes’ put a slight bit of question into their stories, JUST Enough to hopefully say they were being fair, but then they fall back into their liberal loving way praising whatever particular subject it happens to be about. YOu can’t stand FOX because they don’t bow down to your President, but instead challenge him to prove what he is doing is right.

    Look at the very video in this post. Shepard Smith is very concerned about the anti-Obama garbage on the internet. He, as is other Fox Commentators, is not a Obama hater, they are not black haters, they just challenge issues that your in bed with, so you dislike them for that.

  79. avatar
    TRUTH June 14, 2009 at 11:28 am #

    And Rev. Wright wasn’t promoting hate? The man Obama sat in his pew for 20 years, and the man Obama said “I couldn’t disown him anymore than my white Grandmother.” That is until he absolutely had to throw him under the bus for campaign reasons. TWENTY YEARS and BHO never happened to set through sermons like the negative ones we hear in the news? hmmmmm.

  80. avatar
    TRUTH June 14, 2009 at 11:37 am #

    Dang, I overlooked your insane comments Kimba.

    KIMBA SAYS: “I just hope the birther connection to this guy is made clearly in the mainstream and the common perception becomes, “birthers are nut cases, lunatic fringe”.”

    Are you serious? You claim in one breath it is conservative media personnel to blame, then the next thing out of your mouth you WANT a connection between a Crazed Killer Lunatic and Birthers. WHO is the person that wants to see an uprise here? You must WANT to see some bloodfight with thinking like that. If your pointing a finger, look at your hand, there are 3 fingers pointing back towards you.

  81. avatar
    richCares June 14, 2009 at 12:14 pm #

    so rev wright shot the cop! thanks for telling us.

  82. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 14, 2009 at 5:35 pm #

    Fox is a spin network, and some of their commentators “mine outrage”. Calling it a hate network might be an exaggeration.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 14, 2009 at 5:35 pm #

    I never watch MSNBC.

  84. avatar
    Heavy June 15, 2009 at 12:14 pm #

    You mean you’re not me? DAMN!

  85. avatar
    Heavy June 15, 2009 at 12:14 pm #

    But the truth can be heavy!

  86. avatar
    Black Lion June 15, 2009 at 12:53 pm #

    Individuals are still trying to allign von Brunn with the left and saying that he not really a conservative or on the right because he was a Nazi and they were socialists and because he was against Christianity…Interesting…Either way he esposes the views of many birthers and people on Orly’s site. And commentators like Buchannan and other racists in the GOP and on the right…

    As I mentioned the right has Pat Buchannan, a man who wishes that segregation was still the law of the land…And I am sure no one believes that Buchannan is anywhere close to being a supporter of Obama or anyone on the so called left.

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=32264

    Or conservative preacher Wiley Drake that said “he’s using “imprecatory prayer” to pray for the death of the “usurper that is in the White House,” Barack Obama. He seems like a real socialist or lefty…

    http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4126&Itemid=53

    Or South Carolina GOP leader Rusty Depass comparing Michelle Obama to a gorilla…Nice stuff…These are who the birthers have alligned themselves with…

    http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-gop-activists-apologizes-obama,0,6082665.story

  87. avatar
    Heavy June 15, 2009 at 12:54 pm #

    Keep smoking that wacky weed!

  88. avatar
    TRUTH June 15, 2009 at 12:59 pm #

    I ain’t You, and we have the CEOs confirmation on that. 🙂 Somebody notify richycareless.

  89. avatar
    TRUTH June 15, 2009 at 1:03 pm #

    You’ll have a hard time convincing Bill Oriely of that, the “No-Spin Zone”. lol

    Your correct, calling it a hate network IS an exaggeration. NONE of the networks spread hate, just most of them hide truth if it diminishes the appearance of their history making news story person.

  90. avatar
    JeffSF June 15, 2009 at 1:15 pm #

    Fox = MSNBC as far as I am concerned. Both present a very slanted point of view of the news. Fox is not opposition to the administrations point of view, anymore than MSNBC was presenting a fair and balanced opposition to Pres. Bush. I think for both networks it is hard to distinguish between editorial opinion and actual reporting.

    Now that I think about it do either network actually do any reporting?

  91. avatar
    richCares June 15, 2009 at 1:21 pm #

    What brilliant commentary you offer, did you come up with that on your own? Are you always so brilliantly ignorant?

    Today Obama spoke to the AMA in Chicago on Health Care. Birthers wouldn’t have liked it, seeing the usurper being applauded and cheered on by AMA doctors, that would upset the idiot Birthers. The Birther’s dilemma is that too many people like Obama including all those AMA members.

  92. avatar
    Black Lion June 15, 2009 at 3:27 pm #

    Meaning what Heavy? That Buchannan is not racist? That a SC GOP leader did not relate the First Lady of the United States with a gorilla? That a well known conservative pastor did not call for our President to die? These are the people that are the core of the so called birther movement (of which at last check maybe had about 400,000 according to WND). These are the people that give the “push” or lights the fuse to a guy like von Brunn. Anyone here that has read the sites like Orly’s or repubx and others would agree. So if anyone is smoking something it is you, a person that see conspiracy theories everywhere.

  93. avatar
    Black Lion June 15, 2009 at 3:46 pm #

    Truth I guess you would say that World Net Daily is a legitimate news organization, right? Anyone that watches FOX knows the truth. They mislead and lie to suit their purposes. That is why I dislike them. Rupert Murdoch is so in the bag for the right and the GOP that it is hilarious. Hannity, Beck, and O’Reilly are the holy trinity of asshats on that station. And when Shepard Smith finally had the guts to speak up, the conservative nation and bloggers ridiculed him for making his comments. He is the only one on that station that has integrity.

  94. avatar
    Black Lion June 15, 2009 at 4:04 pm #

    The worst part is that these incidents are happen in greater frequency since President Obama has been elected. Below are eight episodes of right-wing extremist violence in four and a half months. I know some like Heavy and Truth may not agree but to anyone out there not clouded by the senseless birther nonsense, you are begining to see a pattern. And I am not entirely convinced that it is random “lone gunmen”, I think some of these guys has help in some way or are affliliated with larger groups.

    Wednesday, January 21 — the day after the inauguration — 22-year-old Keith Luke goes on a rape and killing spree in his Boston neighborhood. He rapes and kills one woman, and kills the sister who tries to help her. He then goes out onto the street and shoots a passing homeless man. Police intercept him on his way to a local synagogue, where he tells them he intended to “kill as many Jews as possible during bingo night.” He also tells investigators that he was fighting the extinction of the white race, and had stockpiled 200 round of ammunition to that end.

    Tuesday, February 10 — In Belfast, Maine, radioactive “dirty bomb” materials are found in home of James Cummings, who had been killed by his wife after years of domestic violence. Cummings was an admirer of Adolf Hitler; a large collection of Nazi memorabilia and a filled-out application for the National Socialist Movement were found on the scene.

    Thursday, February 26 — In Miramar Beach, FL, 60-year-old Dannie Baker walks into a neighboring townhouse where 14 Chilean students — all in the US legally — are gathered. He fires, killing two and wounding five. Those who know Baker describe him as a mentally ill man obsessed with the fear that immigrants are taking over the country.

    Sunday, April 5 — Budding white supremacist and recently discharged veteran Richard Popalowski shoots and kills three police officers following a standoff in Pittsburgh. They were responding to a domestic disturbance call. He believed they had been sent by the Obama Adminstration to take away his guns.

    Tuesday, April 28 — US Army Reservist Joshua Cartwright shoots and kills two sheriff’s deputies in Fort Walton Beach, FL. His wife called police from the emergency room after he beat her. In the incident report, his wife reported that her husband believed the U.S. Government was conspiring against him, and was severely disturbed that Barack Obama had been elected President.

    Wednesday, May 6 — Stephen P. Morgan of Middletown, CT kills former NYU classmate Johanna Justin-Jinich, whom he had been harassing since at least 2007. A diary found in his belongings included an entry: “I think it’s ok to kill Jews and go on a killing spree” and “Kill Johanna. She must Die.” Justin-Jinich was Jewish, and the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor.

    Sunday, May 31 — Dr. George Tiller is shot to death while ushering at his Lutheran church in Wichita, KS. His killer, Scott Roeder, is captured by police within hours. Roeder is found to have ties to several violent right-wing groups, including the Montana Freemen and the Sovereign Citizen movement. He had also been committing acts of vandalism against abortion clinics for years, most recently just days before the assassination.

    Wednesday, June 10 — Well-known anti-Semitic blogger James Wenneker von Brunn walks into the national Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC and opens fire, killing a security guard. Von Brunn had been prominent in Holocaust denier circles for several decades, and considered Holocaust museums to be a crime against white history.

  95. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 2, 2009 at 1:07 pm #

    This is a neat article (if your politics are like mine):

    With elected Republicans firmly in line, and the pragmatists having had their shot with John McCain (though he wound up being lured into the loony bin for much of the latter part of his campaign, once he brought Sarah Palin on board) the extreme right wing of the Republican Party’s “conservative movement” is firmly in charge. And while that may give moderate Republicans headaches, it is a reality. The Limbaugh-Beck-Palin-Bachman wing has long been held back, while what they see as a spineless Republican Party failed to implement “conservative principles.” They’ve stewed and steamed, as Judge Bork was kept off the Supreme Court. They’ve boiled as Roe v. Wade remained on the books for more than 30 years. They’ve had their hopes dashed as their beloved president George W. Bush, who talked like an evangelical, governed like the Methodist he really is when it came to domestic policy — pushing “abstinence only” programs in schools but declining in the end to use the same muscle he exerted to win tax cuts or to give the neocons their war in Iraq, to do away with legalized abortion and gay marriage. And then, adding insult to injury, Bush’s Christian crusade in the Middle East fell apart, and he slinked out of office hated and dismissed, adding a final disastrous act: the bail out of Wall Street. Even the right’s cherished ideas, like domestic spying and torture to root out and punish the Muslim idolaters were thrown out with Dubya’s dirty bath water.

    Well now, at last, the wingers get to try things their way….

    http://blog.reidreport.com/2009/09/the-crazies-get-their-turn-to-run-the-gop/