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Doubters Poll

Please read all the choices bef0re making your selection.

If the State of Hawaii were to provide a certified copy of President Obama's long form birth certificate that showed that he was born in a hospital, and was fully consistent with the COLB

  • I didn't have any doubts to start with and I don't need to see further documentation. (77%, 134 Votes)
  • I would feel confident that President Obama was a natural born citizen and eligible to be president. (17%, 29 Votes)
  • Even if born in Hawaii, I have doubts that anyone with a non-citizen parent is eligible to be president . (7%, 13 Votes)
  • No amount of evidence will convince me that Barack Obama is eligible to be president (5%, 8 Votes)
  • I would still have doubts about Obama being born in Hawaii. (1%, 2 Votes)
  • I would still have concerns that Obama lost his citizenship later on. (1%, 2 Votes)

Total Voters: 188

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73 Responses to Doubters Poll

  1. avatar
    SvenMagnussen August 18, 2009 at 1:38 pm #

    How about a more reasonable question for the survey?

    For example, if you asked a candidate for President of the United States if he was a Natural Born Citizen and he responded with a statement saying he was Native Born citizen of the United States whose citizenship was also governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 at the time of his birth, then would you think he was qualified?

    _ yes
    _ no
    _ not sure

  2. avatar
    Welsh Dragon August 18, 2009 at 1:47 pm #

    AARGH! pressed the wrong button!

  3. avatar
    Heavy August 18, 2009 at 1:47 pm #

    You’re just saying that because he’s BLACK! Or is he?

  4. avatar
    Heavy August 18, 2009 at 1:49 pm #

    A whole 2 voters!

  5. avatar
    Greg August 18, 2009 at 2:20 pm #

    Yes.

    Supremacy clause of the Constitution doesn’t say a word about how British Nationality Laws trump our Constitution.

  6. avatar
    Catbit August 18, 2009 at 2:35 pm #

    Yes – because I understand that no other nation has sovereignty over US law, and that regardless of his dual citizenship at birth, he is a US citizen by birth and never lost such. There are only two types of citizens – those BORN into citizenship, and those who are not born citezens but choose to acquire it.

  7. avatar
    Bob August 18, 2009 at 2:52 pm #

    Yes – Native born and natural born are synonymous, and dual citizenship and natural born citizenship are not mutually exclusive

  8. avatar
    Heavy August 18, 2009 at 2:59 pm #

    Well said!

    http://ann4324.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/the-death-of-america/

  9. avatar
    Ragout August 18, 2009 at 3:17 pm #

    Indeed, very well said. Thanks for the link. It’s worth repeating some of article here, so that everyone can know about the Obama/Bilderberg/Antichrist connection.

    “Obama is a Bilderberg Group puppet protected by all the money in the world and chosen to bring this country down and establish the New World Order. He may even be, as many suspect, the Antichrist.”

    I wonder why these aspects of the conspiracy aren’t getting more attention?

  10. avatar
    Heavy August 18, 2009 at 3:23 pm #

    Just a little truth about your boy.

    http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/08/thirty-degrees-below-zero.html

  11. avatar
    Low Rider August 18, 2009 at 3:24 pm #

    Um, because they’re bat-shite crazy?

  12. avatar
    BlackLion August 18, 2009 at 3:41 pm #

    Yes…Because the US Constitution and US Law does not recognize any other countries laws in regards to citizenship…

  13. avatar
    BlackLion August 18, 2009 at 3:45 pm #

    Wow…An article by Michelle Malkin…Of course it is factual and without bias…Either way so you are implying that President Obama is somehow responsible for what this developer did? So in other words john McCain should be responsible for the acts of Charles Keating then. Right?

  14. avatar
    Heavy August 18, 2009 at 3:51 pm #

    Wow Blackie. Even YOU can’t argue with facts. McCain lost. Your boy is squatting in the White (There’s that BAD word again!) House.

  15. avatar
    BlackLion August 18, 2009 at 3:52 pm #

    The doubters will never be satisfied. Because of sites that produce dreck like WND. In their more recent column, they make the assertion that because in NJ in 2004 their was some sort of fraud, then it is likely that the President’s COLB is fraudlent. These people will never give up…

    “According to a Department of Justice news release, Anderson was paid to insert phony birth records for illegal aliens into the files at her county office. The immigrants, in turn, approached county window clerks and requested copies of their birth certificates, after which the clerks looked to the files and, upon seeing the records Anderson had inserted, issued fraudulent birth certificates unknowingly.”

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=107200

  16. avatar
    kimba August 18, 2009 at 4:02 pm #

    You know they’ve got nothing left. They’re recycling the derailed crazy cars to keep their crazy conspiracy train going. Rezco and the apts, then it will Rezco and the Obama home, then it’ll be there’s connections to Blago. Recycled anti-Obama poo.

  17. avatar
    Heavy August 18, 2009 at 4:05 pm #

    You are wrong, Blackie! We WILL be satisfied as soon as proof is rendered. Until then, your boy is just a pretender.

  18. avatar
    Heavy August 18, 2009 at 4:08 pm #

    Kimba, hon, don’t forget Ayers, Wright, Alinsky, et al because we won’t. We won’t let anyone else forget either. These are anchors your messiah put around his neck.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 18, 2009 at 4:14 pm #

    I guess that’s my fault.

  20. avatar
    BlackLion August 18, 2009 at 4:14 pm #

    Proof has been rendered heavster…You are just too blind to see it…I wonder how long it will take until you figure out that the President is not going to be removed…My guess, 2012 when he is running for reelection…

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 18, 2009 at 4:17 pm #

    I can correct your entry. What did you want it to be.

  22. avatar
    kimba August 18, 2009 at 4:18 pm #

    Derailed long ago off your crazy train. Your birther madness car has been pushed over the rails by the Kenya BC fiasco. Can’t find anything new can you? You have to scramble to re-hash old poo? The post-birthers: Poo-hashers. Yawn.

  23. avatar
    Welsh Dragon August 18, 2009 at 4:39 pm #

    I didn’t have any doubts to start with…

    Thanks

  24. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion August 18, 2009 at 5:21 pm #

    Yes. Other countries nationality laws do not trump the United States’ laws for purposes of identify who is a US citizen. Under US law someone with “dual citizenship” from birth is exactly the same as any other US citizen from birth in terms of how that US citizenship is seen.

  25. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion August 18, 2009 at 5:22 pm #

    Because they’re so completely nuts that not even Art Bell would touch it?

  26. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion August 18, 2009 at 5:24 pm #

    Longer. They’ll be rocking back and forth in 2016 going “…any day now. He’ll be arrested any day now….”

  27. avatar
    Epectitus August 18, 2009 at 6:37 pm #

    Yes.

  28. avatar
    Epectitus August 18, 2009 at 6:40 pm #

    My guess, 2017 when they are inaugurating his successor.

  29. avatar
    Catbit August 18, 2009 at 6:42 pm #

    Mars is AMAZING!! Mars is Amazing! Marsss isss a-ma-zing…

  30. avatar
    SvenMagnussen August 18, 2009 at 7:06 pm #

    That’s ridiculous. Some of my best friends are Indonesian citizens living and working as an undocumented guests of the United States of America.

  31. avatar
    jtx August 18, 2009 at 7:15 pm #

    Greg:

    You’re all messed up in clauses. Try Article II, Section 1, clause 5 where it says a Prez “shall be” a “natural born citizen”.

    Being born a Brit as the Oborter himself has told everyone does not qualify on that basis.

  32. avatar
    jtx August 18, 2009 at 7:18 pm #

    Catbit:

    There are clearly more than the two types you mention … but we’ll let the courts straighten that out, shall we.

    Dual citizenship is a non-starter for the office in question.

  33. avatar
    jtx August 18, 2009 at 7:20 pm #

    Bob:

    Not so – native born and natural born are actuslly different things and NOT synonomous.

    If it pleases you to think so, go right ahead and you can argue with the court later on. In the meantime Obama has never shown that he is legally eligible to hold the office he now occupies.

  34. avatar
    jtx August 18, 2009 at 7:23 pm #

    BlackLion:

    So – let’s see – you’re saying that that the US can remove, say British citizenship from a British citizen unilaterally and unequivocally and, presumably, then the reverse is also true???

    Interesting!!

  35. avatar
    Bob August 18, 2009 at 7:30 pm #

    For the next poll:

    Is jtx?:

    a) a child playing on the Internet;
    b) a comment ‘bot programmed with random anti-Obama talking points;
    c) obviously touched in the head;
    d) all of the above.

  36. avatar
    SFJeff August 18, 2009 at 7:50 pm #

    Since JTX likes speculation- what if British law was changed to make everyone in the United States a British Citizen? Say as of August 18, 2009, everyone living in the United States was proclaimed by Britain as a British citizen.

    According to JTX’s theory, if that happened, no one could be eligible for the U.S. Presidency- the Brits could overturn our entire system of government by passing one little law.

    Of course Britain wouldn’t do that but what about a less friendly country? If thats all it would take….

  37. avatar
    Ragout August 18, 2009 at 8:19 pm #

    I wouldn’t count on the courts, given their record so far. They’ll just keep enforcing every picayune little procedural rule and tossing out the lawsuits on technicalities. It’s obvious the judges are intimidated. And who can blame them? You can be the Death Panels won’t be approving any health care for the judge who demands to see Obama’s birth certificate. That’s if FEMA hasn’t already sent them to the camps…

  38. avatar
    Greg August 18, 2009 at 8:40 pm #

    British law doesn’t trump the Constitution. Sorry, I know your an US-hating Anglophile (Had any good crumpets recently? Burned any US flags?), but the order of supremacy is:

    US Constitution
    Federal Statutes/Treaties
    State Laws
    Municipal Laws
    School board Laws
    Trash schedules
    Fan club by-laws

    Then, and only then, British laws.

    Here’s a clue, where in EITHER the Supremacy clause OR the natural born citizenship clause does it say anything about another country’s laws?

  39. avatar
    Adrianinflorida August 18, 2009 at 8:42 pm #

    Oooh, “pallin’ around with terra’ists” that worked sooooo well when former half term governor Sarah Palin tried it last. Please, bring her on in 2012, we need another 4 years to finish what has been started.

  40. avatar
    Greg August 18, 2009 at 8:44 pm #

    I wouldn’t count on the courts, since they’ll keep enforcing such bedrock principles as standing. You actually have to have a concrete, cognizable injury to sue in court.

  41. avatar
    Greg August 18, 2009 at 8:47 pm #

    You’re saying that Britain can, unilaterally and unequivocally make someone ineligible to become president by foisting their citizenship on them.

  42. avatar
    Nullifidian August 18, 2009 at 8:57 pm #

    I wouldn’t count on the courts, given their record so far. They’ll just keep enforcing every picayune little procedural rule and tossing out the lawsuits on technicalities. It’s obvious the judges are intimidated. And who can blame them? You can be the Death Panels won’t be approving any health care for the judge who demands to see Obama’s birth certificate. That’s if FEMA hasn’t already sent them to the camps…

    It’s a sad comment on the political landscape of the U.S. that I can’t tell if this parody or not.

    I’m leaning towards parody, but I’ve seen lots of stuff more ridiculous than this written in apparent earnest.

  43. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 18, 2009 at 9:01 pm #

    Ragout, how do you explain why so many courts, all over the country, with judges appointed by Democrats and Republicans, all act the same way?

  44. avatar
    Nullifidian August 18, 2009 at 9:06 pm #

    Kimba, hon, don’t forget Ayers, Wright, Alinsky, et al because we won’t. We won’t let anyone else forget either. These are anchors your messiah put around his neck.

    I’m not sure I even understand to this day what the alleged connection between Saul Alinsky and Obama was. Alinsky died when Obama was ten years old.

    It seems to me like this was just recycled Republican playbook stuff that they were intending to use against Hillary Clinton (who did her thesis on Alinsky), and they trusted that nobody on the ideological right would be intelligent enough to spot the flaw.

    As Heavy demonstrates, they were right.

  45. avatar
    Ragout August 18, 2009 at 9:31 pm #

    “Bedrock principles such as standing”

    According to the judge, American Hero Major Stefan Cook lacked standing to sue Simtech and “President” Obama. Apparently, losing his opportunity to serve his country, and his job, didn’t amount to a “concrete, cognizable injury.” If getting fired isn’t enough to establish a concrete injury, what does it take?

    Obviously, the judge didn’t want to end up like Cook. In the face of FEMA, death panels, and enemies lists, he made his decision based on terror, not the law.

  46. avatar
    Greg August 18, 2009 at 9:58 pm #

    And you’re basing your conclusion on the emanations from your nether regions rather than on facts.

    Here’s a clue, in a 67 page motion for TRO in an employment matter, why don’t you spend more than 2 pages discussing the employment matter?

    The court saw through Orly’s transparent attempt to piggyback her claims about Obama’s eligibility onto an employment suit that didn’t need any of that resolved.

    Here’s clue 2: If Cook was retaliated against, it doesn’t matter if Obama was legitimate or not; and if he was not retaliated against, it doesn’t matter if Obama was legitimate or not.

    They say bad facts make bad law, well, sometimes, bad lawyering makes for bad results. If Cook did have a claim for retaliation, Orly screwed him out of it. He now has a concrete claim of injury against her.

  47. avatar
    misha August 18, 2009 at 10:27 pm #

    “He may even be, as many suspect, the Antichrist.”

    Excuse me: I’M the Anti-Christ, for chrissake. Falwell and Hagee say so.

    Get this stuff straight, will ya?

  48. avatar
    misha August 18, 2009 at 10:30 pm #

    …who will be Booker.

  49. avatar
    Shreiking Wombat August 18, 2009 at 10:45 pm #

    @ Carl Swensson:

    “(The call will be going out at the end of the week for those of you who got your confirmed receipt of delivery to start calling on your local FBI office and the U.S. Marshall’s Service {Fed. employees must be arrested by Fed. agencies} to affect arrest warrants against those who have received but not acted on those Complaints. On your mark, get set..,):”

    http://riseupforamerica.com/

  50. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 18, 2009 at 10:48 pm #

    If getting fired isn’t enough to establish a concrete injury, what does it take?

    But he didn’t bring a lawsuit for wrongful termination; he brought a lawsuit to challenge Obama’s qualifications to be President.

    He WOULD have standing to sue Simtech for wrongful termination (probably in state court, not federal), because Simtech was his employer. (He’d lose, but he’d lose on the merits, not for lack of standing).

    But getting fired doesn’t give him standing to sue everybody for everything — it just give him standing to bring the a specific cause of action against the specific people who he claims caused him injury.

  51. avatar
    misha August 18, 2009 at 10:53 pm #

    Orly Taitz is a lawyer for the Russian-Israeli mob.

  52. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 18, 2009 at 10:54 pm #

    Name one Supreme Court ruling that has said this, jtx.

    Name just one Supreme Court ruling. Please do this. I have yet to find one that has the Opinion of the Court (which is the binding precedent in this case) which has said that there are more than these two types of citizens.

  53. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 18, 2009 at 10:59 pm #

    And please name the Supreme Court ruling that says this. Please show me where the ruling that discusses the differences between native born and natural born is. So far, I can’t find it.

  54. avatar
    Ragout August 18, 2009 at 10:59 pm #

    American Hero Stefan Cook was retaliated against because he questioned his Commander-in-Chief’s legitimacy. In his anti-retaliation lawsuit, it seems reasonable to me to demonstrate that Cook was obligated to raise these questions, and that his doubts were based on evidence. He wants to show that he’s not just some nutjob! Instead, he’s someone who’s seriously inquired into his C-in-C’s lack of birth certificate, his dual (or triple) citizenship, his dozens of social security numbers. If it takes a 50-page complaint to describe his doubts about Obama, what’s wrong with that?

    A long discussion of trivialities like employment law would have been superfluous. The judge knows the law. Why waste his time?

  55. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 18, 2009 at 11:02 pm #

    I’m going to say D!

  56. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 18, 2009 at 11:03 pm #

    I’m waiting for them to do a citizens arrest, and see if they do any better than Von Braun.

  57. avatar
    Shreiking Wombat August 18, 2009 at 11:04 pm #

    I’ll bring the popcorn.

  58. avatar
    Greg August 18, 2009 at 11:08 pm #

    LOL! Why waste the judge’s time by telling him how the employment law applies to the facts of your case.

    I’ll have to remember that next time a partner kicks back a brief I write!

  59. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 18, 2009 at 11:47 pm #

    Ragout, Stephen Cook was fired because he was an idiot. He probably was in a job that required a DOD Security Clearance. One of the ways that a security clearance is denied is if you have ever applied for Conscientious Objector Status.

    In his lawsuit (in Georgia), he asked to be declared a Conscientious Objector. That would mean that he would have gotten his security clearance revoked. He therefore would have gotten fired, since he no longer meets the requirements of the job.

  60. avatar
    myson August 19, 2009 at 1:14 am #

    ‘D’ also

  61. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 19, 2009 at 3:33 am #

    Ragout wrote:

    Stefan Cook was retaliated against because he questioned his Commander-in-Chief’s legitimacy.

    Then he needed to bring a lawsuit in state court against his employer.

    In his anti-retaliation lawsuit, it seems reasonable to me to demonstrate that Cook was obligated to raise these questions, and that his doubts were based on evidence.

    A civil complaint is not the place to “demonstrate” the evidence in support of a case- the complaint is supposed to be a concise and direct statement of the harm the plaintiff claims to have suffered, and the legal basis for his lawsuit.

    A long discussion of trivialities like employment law would have been superfluous. The judge knows the law.

    A long discussion wasn’t needed. A short, direct statement of his claim was required.

    It’s an easy case to bring in state court. It’s also probably a losing case under Florida law, but its possible that Cook has an employment contract that would give him legal recourse.

    But there are basic rules of pleading a case that have to be followed. So I think that if Cook wants to pursue legal action to get his job back, or to get money damages because of the loss of his job, then the first thing he should do is find himself a competent lawyer who is admitted to practice law in his state.

  62. avatar
    Gordon August 19, 2009 at 4:44 am #

    C Any child playing on the Internet has better sense.

  63. avatar
    Gordon August 19, 2009 at 4:48 am #

    Since infants cannot renounce citizenship, and since Obama didn’t renounce his U.S citizenship upon reaching adulthood, then your test is a goof.

  64. avatar
    Gordon August 19, 2009 at 4:52 am #

    And I had stopped coming here, because I knew all those upcoming court decisions were on tap. I keep wondering which one will make you realize your hopes on a court treating this with any more than amusement would be frustrating. By the way, which one of the next round of suits would you say holds real promise?

  65. avatar
    Gordon August 19, 2009 at 4:58 am #

    Heavy you’re going off the rails. Your prejudices about Obama are clouding your judgment about his birth and it’s showing. Free Republic gladly explores all those other avenues you haters love so much, you know the ones that didn’t work during the campaign.

  66. avatar
    kimba August 19, 2009 at 8:58 am #

    Looks to me like another faction is emerging: The “nothing you could show me would prove it”-ers. Or are these really the proofers? It also appears that “two-fers” are becoming the dominant nobama faction. Have “birthers” evolved into “twofers” as the evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii has become undeniable?

  67. avatar
    aarrgghh August 19, 2009 at 9:40 am #

    kimba says:

    looks to me like another faction is emerging: the “nothing you could show me would prove it”-ers.

    i’m labling these folks with the only term that best describes them: “crybabies”

  68. avatar
    kimba August 19, 2009 at 12:08 pm #

    I fear one of them is going to do worse than a VonBrunn. I predict the first victim of this is going to be a Republican, either a Rep or Senator or innocent bystander, at one of their townhalls, in a state where open carry is legal, where a couple of these a$$-clowns attempt to “serve” an arrest warrant.Don’t forget, when McVeigh was arrested he was wearing a tshirt with the famous “refresh the tree of liberty” quote. And these MF’s throw that line around like it’s clever. I may truly detest some of those Repugs, but I wish them no harm, just defeat next election. Remember those halcyon days of the Bush administration when people were arrested for having a weapon within a mile of Bush? Like when he went jogging and they arrested a guy in the park with a handgun? Or even better, when marchers in Bush’s 2nd Innaug parade were told to not look at or try to make eye contact with Pres or Mrs Bush when passing the reviewing stand. Their 2nd amendment rights are safer under Obama! HA!

  69. avatar
    Lupin August 19, 2009 at 12:13 pm #

    I’d go for b. The inhumanity… The inhumanity..

  70. avatar
    Bob August 19, 2009 at 12:23 pm #

    I think Swensson will succeed in stirring law enforcement’s interest.

    I think he may be surprised by who is the focus of this interest.

  71. avatar
    SFJeff August 19, 2009 at 1:53 pm #

    Ragout left such a trail of falsehoods, I just can’t resist addressing them:

    “You can be the Death Panels won’t be approving any health care for the judge”

    The whole Death Panel thing has been throughly debunked. Just because Palin says it exists doesn’t make it exist. However, there are already panels within your insurance companies deciding on whether you get treatment for your life-threatening disease. No one calls these death panels though- they are just compassionate reviews to increase insurance company profits.

    “That’s if FEMA hasn’t already sent them to the camps”
    Ditto on the so called FEMA detention camps. However, hopefully FEMA will be better prepared for the next disaster.

    “American Hero Major Stefan Cook”
    American Hero? You mean the type that volunteers for active service then reneges on it? Quote from the Stars and Stripes:

    “…said the Army couldn’t let Cook’s critical engineer billet be hijacked by further legal wrangling. Cook was scheduled to deploy on July 15, and his position cannot sit empty.

    The officer Cook was supposed to replace “is going to have to remain in Afghanistan a while longer,” Silkman said, noting the Army is seeking a replacement. “No one has been identified yet, but it is a priority fill, so we’re working on it and expect to fill it soon. Engineers are in high demand.”

    So this “Hero” is sitting comfortably here in the U.S., while the person who he was supposed to replace gets to stay in action longer. To me, the “Hero” is the one who got stuck in Afghanistan, not Mr. Cook who merely lost his cushy $120,000 contractor job through his own stupidity.

  72. avatar
    misha August 19, 2009 at 3:37 pm #

    He already got a visit from the Secret Service.

    But he’s in good hands: Orly is his attorney.

  73. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 22, 2009 at 8:29 pm #

    As of today’s results in the poll, if the long form birth certificate were produced, exactly half of the doubters would be satisfied, and the other half would still have doubts.