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Birther lie of the year

Orly Taitz’s claim that she had birth certificate showing Barack Obama was born in Kenya earned a respectable third place in this year’s Politifact.com Lie of the Year contest. (Politifact.com is the fact checking group from the St. Petersburg Times newspaper.)

The winner was Sarah Palin’s Facebook comment:

“[Seniors and the disabled] will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care.”

In light of that zinger, Orly Taitz’s 8.7% is pretty remarkable, and indicative of just how many are aware of the birther movement. [Note: this award is for the first fake birth certificate, the Bomford clone.]

106 Responses to Birther lie of the year

  1. avatar
    misha December 20, 2009 at 5:09 pm #

    Related, because it comes from the same crowd. This is my favorite lie: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries

    And “Ten Appalling Lies We Were Told About Iraq”: http://www.alternet.org/story/16274

    I lived in Anchorage. Evangelicals are consistently the worst bigots I have met. And they are uniformly anti-Semites. I am not surprised by anything that comes out of Palin’s mouth: http://www.newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/

  2. avatar
    Black Lion December 22, 2009 at 2:52 pm #

    Speaking of birthers, you have to see this poll at WND. It is scary stuff….

    http://forums.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=645&pollShowResults=1

    What would you like to give Obama for Christmas? (6891 votes)

    A court ruling booting his ineligible self from office 25% (1746)

    A one-way ticket back to Kenya 20% (1400)

    An ultimatum: Show me your long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate, or get out of the White House 12% (811)

    An arrest warrant 9% (644)

    An impeachment hearing 9% (599)

    A new spirit that doesn’t hate America and all the positive principles that have made it the greatest nation on Earth 6% (412)

    A different country to destroy 4% (288)

    I have nothing left to give him. He’s taken everything 4% (247)

    A pink slip 4% (243)

    Other 2% (104)

    The U.S. Constitution on CD or DVD, since he obviously hasn’t read it 1% (99)

    A Bible 1% (90)

    A whole new set of advisers who actually like America 1% (64)

    A taste of his own health “reform” 1% (36)

    A big, fat lump of coal 0% (30)

    A video of candidate Obama so he can be reminded of all the unkept promises that brought him to office 0% (20)

    Concern for human life 0% (20)

    A big hug for making this nation so much better than it was under George W. Bush 0% (12)

    His photograph on the U.S. food stamp 0% (9)

    I have no gift to bring, pa rum pum pum pum 0% (6)

    A hearty handshake and “thank you” for saving America 0% (4)

    My complete trust 0% (3)

    A national monument in Obama’s honor 0% (2)

    He’s doing such a great job, I would give him a blank check 0% (1)

    The Presidential Medal of Freedom or Congressional Gold Medal

    Even more scary are some of the comments on the WND site…A site that claims to monitor for threats or any kinds of negative behavior…Look at the articles regarding this from the ConWebWatch site…

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

    RE: RE: RE: Chuck Norris Doesn
    Posted by ca101939 on Dec 22, 2009 10:59

    I like the one-way ticket back to Kenya idea, but only after the proper sentence for treason is carried out. It’s way past time to return to public hangings in this country.

    RE: Christmas gift for Obama
    Posted by isthatfunny on Dec 21, 2009 23:46

    I think you nailed this one, hanging ain’t good enough. That was a joke ,but a lot of truth is told in jokes !This goes all the way ,including the Harry the Horse thief ,and Nancy the Nose ,and even Barney and the Bozo’s all guilty of not calling him out before the “selection”… Talk to the Hand mentality in this great country, I know the spirits of Christmas battles of the past are stirring. God Bless America we need all the help we can get…..
    Reply to: patriot53
    I personally think a hanging gallows with a sentence for treason parked outside the White House is a good idea. Sentence the crook for treason and go back to our hanging sentence, then give it to him. Get him out now! No one seems to get that everything Obama does makes absolutely perfect sense if he intends to turn himself into a dictator and never leave. That’s why he feels no necessity to listen to any American who isn’t muslim. He has no intention of ever leaving his power roost.

    RE: RE: My gift for Odammit
    Posted by Hammond Hank on Dec 21, 2009 22:21

    We could get him a fifth of top shelf Ted Kennedy Memorial booze. Scratch that idea, Muslims don’t drink. Okay, so we get him a bong or hookah and a pound of weed or qat. We know he likes that. And a little candy for his nose as well, cuz’
    he’d like to teach the world to sing
    to him in harmony…

    RE: My Gift…
    Posted by misterMick on Dec 21, 2009 18:57

    In order to PROVE the total supremacy of Hussein Obama’s superior healthcare plan, I would like to give him, in isolation of course, the plague. Maybe with a side of cancer of the tongue, too. Tired of his ceaseless lies, you know. Because of the utter fantasticness of his socialist healthcare, I have no doubt he would be back to normal, acting like Hitler Jr. and spewing all manner of anti-American lies and propaganda, within days! Let the magic of his Obamacare be demonstrated on HIM first, and certainly without any special consideration for his office, which he defiles all the time anyway. Show us the way, Hussein Obama!

    What I give to Obama
    Posted by z1queenie on Dec 21, 2009 17:56

    I would give Obama a one-way ticket back to his grass-roofed, dirt-floored hut in Kenya because his village is missing its idiot

    Reply to: Outlaw
    A Trial For WAR CRIMES and a ROPE !

  3. avatar
    msdaisy December 22, 2009 at 4:29 pm #

    They only want to hang him because he’s black. They don’t give a rats butt if he’s American or not, it’s the color of his skin that is the real offence to their KKKkind. Such a bunch of racists twits. BTW, what’s qat?

    On a lighter note just for fun, a little birther variation of The Night Before Christmas. And a challenge to all to add a verse, I’m quite sure you couldn’t do any worse!

    http://crazyinternetpeople.blogspot.com/2009/12/twas-night-before-christmas.html

  4. avatar
    John December 23, 2009 at 9:37 pm #

    Obama is a British Citizen!
    THE FACTS, THE LAW, THE INESCAPABLE CONCLUSION
    A Legal Analysis of Obama’s Citizenship status by Jane Menta

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/12/23/obama-is-a-british-citizen/

  5. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 23, 2009 at 10:17 pm #

    From the article John cited: According to the official British Consular Registry Stipulations, the British Nationality Act of 1948 and of 1981, Kenya Constitution, and the Kenya Independence Act of 1963 Barack Hussein Obama was born a British subject, and is a British Citizen to this day.

    This faux legal analysis fails to take into account that the section of the British Nationality Act of 1948 that would make Barack Obama a British national today was repealed.

    If you want the truth, read this web site and not the Post & Email. We don’t repeat long-discredited stories. See:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/09/donofrio-v-factcheck-org/
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/04/is-president-obama-a-british-citizen/

    and the uncensored comments there following.

  6. avatar
    Rickey December 23, 2009 at 11:49 pm #

    How is this for a consistent argument?

    Q. 6. Did Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., after the age of 18 and of sound mind fill out a declaration to revoke his British Citizenship?

    A. — There is no record or statement to the effect that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. ever revoked his British Citizenship at any time at or after the age of 18. Therefore in law, we must presume he has not.

    So the absence of proof leads to a legal presumption that the act in question never happened. Next question:

    Q. 7. Did Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya between the ages of 21 to 23?

    A. — Unknown. Obama states on factcheck.org and fightthesmears.com that he never swore an oath of allegiance to Kenya. However, Obama did visit Kenya in 1982 at the age of 21, after his father died. During such a visit he could have sworn such an oath.

    So what happened to the legal presumption regarding absence of proof? She claims that there is no proof that Obama ever revoked his British citizenship, so it must be presumed that he did not; but when there is no proof that Obama ever swore an oath of allegiance to Kenya, she declares that he could have done it, lack of proof notwithstanding.

    This is typical birther talk. They simply assert any argument which supports their preconceived notions, intellectual consistency be damned.

  7. avatar
    NbC December 23, 2009 at 11:56 pm #

    Logic has never been much of a characteristic of the birthers.
    Showing once again that the presumption of innocence is dead when it comes to our first black President.

  8. avatar
    misha December 24, 2009 at 4:22 am #

    I repeat:

    Conservatives: guilty until proven innocent.
    Liberals: innocent until proven guilty, beyond a resonable doubt.

    See Obama.

  9. avatar
    misha December 24, 2009 at 4:36 am #

    “Logic has never been much of a characteristic of the birthers.”

    Ha – logic has never been much to conservatives. See Limbaugh, Coulter, Hagee…

    Limbaugh: “The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies.”

    “Take that bone out of your nose and call me back.” And “Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?”

    Coulter: “We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens’ creme brulee.”

  10. avatar
    Mary Brown December 24, 2009 at 8:21 am #

    Certain kinds of Conservatives Misha, not all. Just like so-called progressives who make deals with Grover Norquist. I won’t even give her name space here. What we need to look for, on both sides, are people willing to think out of the box about others. I talk to Conservatives all the time. I find many wonderful human beings. There are many people willing to listen and change. But, Misha, you have to give up stereotypes and Misha that includes progressive sterotypes as well.

  11. avatar
    dunstvangeet December 24, 2009 at 1:50 pm #

    John,

    Frankly speaking, John Charleton’s legal analysis is wrong on many points. John Charleton even acknowledges it in the point of this.

    By the way, I think you’re referring to this article: http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/12/24/british-law-declares-obama-a-british-citizen/

    It was written by John Charleton, not Jane Menta (which was apparently pulled).

    1. Obama did not become a British Subject, or Commonwelth Subject. He became a “Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies” (CUKC). This is completely different from British Subject, or Commonwealth Subject in British Law. The fact that the Author doesn’t know this, means that she/he doesn’t actually know British Law. The analysis of the initial citizenship, though, is correct.

    2. Obama was eligible under the Constitution of Kenya to become a Kenyan Citizen, through his father.

    3. Read the entire cited section of the Kenyan Independence Act. Specifically read Section 3(1) of the Kenyan Independence Act.

    (1) Any reference in subsection (2) or subsection (3) of this section to a colony, protectorate or protected state shall, subject to subsection (7) of this section, be construed as a reference to a territory which is a colony, protectorate or protected state (within the meaning of the British Nationality Act 1948) on the appointed day, and, accordingly, shall not include a reference to Kenya or any part thereof.

    This means that Kenya is not referenced under the Kenyan Independence Act. Therefore, Obama would not be eligible to keep CUKC if he became a Kenyan Citizen under the cited paragraph.

    The author doesn’t read everything, and then goes on a false conclusion.

    The fact is that Obama lost his CUKC in 1963, at the age of 18 months when Kenya became an independent nation. There is no evidence otherwise.

    Actually read the article, instead of just parroting it. The article is shoddy work that directly contradicts itself, and even John Charleton knows that, when he references down in the comments that “If both my grandfather and father were born inside Kenya, and became Kenyan citizens, but I am illigitimate, and residing outside of kenya, under the legal guardianship of an American citizen, do I become a Kenyan or not; do I cease beign a British citizen by descent or not?”

    His shoddy work shows through to the even him. You’ll just never get him to directly acknowledge it.

  12. avatar
    Mike December 24, 2009 at 9:39 pm #

    They mean khat. It’s a plant stimulant popular in some parts of the Middle East.

  13. avatar
    thebabbster December 25, 2009 at 3:29 pm #

    I have many Conservatives in my family, and until the subject of politics comes up, they are really decent people. But bring up Barack Obama, and they want to form a lynch mob. Oh, and eliminationist rhetoric isn’t out of the question for all “libruls” everywhere, either.

  14. avatar
    thebabbster December 25, 2009 at 3:58 pm #

    At one time, I naively thought that we, as a country, had largely gotten past the issue of race. The election of a bi-racial president has soundly proven that wrong. I don’t think I have seen white, evangelical fear raised to this point, ever.
    The World Nut Daily has a frighteningly high number of fans and subscribers, any one of whom would be glad to be the leader of the lynch mob!

  15. avatar
    thebabbster December 25, 2009 at 4:03 pm #

    I’m pretty sure there’s this little thing called a “background check” performed on people who see sensitive intelligence information, such as our President. Whatever the birthers claim to know would have been discovered well before any of those kooks would have known about it. But, it’s fun to watch them cook up new theories all the time!

  16. avatar
    AuBricker December 25, 2009 at 6:16 pm #

    I know exactly what you are talking about. I have conservative family members whom I love and care for deeply. They are normally rational, concerned, and intelligent individuals. However, they instantly attach to almost any inane rumor that comes out about the president or liberals in general however dubious the source. They sometimes send me emails detailing Obama’s alleged misdeeds. I can only politely respond with evidence that refutes the false claims. So far, however, none of them have gone over the edge of insanity with the Teabaggers or the Birthers.

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 26, 2009 at 8:21 am #

    Change is always difficult, but we got past this particular hurdle, and that can never be undone.

  18. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 5:00 pm #

    Obama is still a British Citizen because his ability to choose Kenyan citizenship expired AFTER he was already made a British Citizen by the BNA of 1981.
    Compare the dates: KIA63 expired his Kenyan citizenship by his 23rd birthday, Aug 4, 1983
    but the BNA 1981 had already made him a full British Citizen by January 1 1983 made him a full British Citizen.
    SO OBAMACONSPIRACY.ORG IS WRONG, YET AGAIN!!

    You guys go about criticizing and you don’t even know what you’re talking about.

    Please, go back to remedial school.

  19. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    Well since OBAMACONSPIRACY.ORG DOES NOT BOTHER TO READ THE ACTUAL LAWS AND JUST BLATHERS NONSENSE they can sit and gloat as to their righteousness, based on only their psychiatric mental assessment of things.

    Try reading you idiots, then dither amongst yourselves after you’ve got something called THE FACTS on hand, eh?

    http://www.parliament.go.ke/parliament/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=24&Itemid=

    James Orengo, Presidential Cabinet level Land Minister and Attorney states that Obama was born in Kenya and is not a native of the USA.

  20. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 5:05 pm #

    http://www.parliament.go.ke/parliament/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=24&Itemid=

    James Orengo, Presidential Cabinet level Land Minister and Attorney states that Obama was born in Kenya and is not a native of the USA.

  21. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 5:07 pm #

    Many persons born in Kenya are black.

    http://www.parliament.go.ke/parliament/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=24&Itemid=

    James Orengo, Presidential Cabinet level Land Minister and Attorney states that Obama was born in Kenya and is not a native of the USA.

    Now is it because they’re black, or that they’re Kenyan, that they would be ineligible to be president?

  22. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 5:08 pm #

    Indeed, BNA81 made him a full Brit before KIA63 expired,
    You, Obamaconspiracy.ORG = PWND

  23. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 5:09 pm #

    Not. If Obama had proven himself innocent, nobody would find him guilty.
    As it is, he has no proof of innocence and only that of guilt.

    http://www.parliament.go.ke/parliament/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=24&Itemid=

    James Orengo, Presidential Cabinet level Land Minister and Attorney states that Obama was born in Kenya and is not a native of the USA.

  24. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett April 15, 2010 at 5:43 pm #

    EEK! Thread Necromancy! : O

  25. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 6:51 pm #

    Democrats started the KKK as their terror arm to end by murder and torture, Republican reconstructionists.

    Own it, baby.

  26. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 6:55 pm #

    If it’s so dead, then why do you comment now?
    Please note to all who read; THEY CANNOT DISPUTE THE TRUTH only use Alinsky Rulebook for Anencephalics #5

  27. avatar
    BatGuano April 15, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    If it’s so dead, then why do you comment now?
    Please note to all who read; THEY CANNOT DISPUTE THE TRUTH ….

    there’s a whole different thread dedicated to the orengo statement. that’s the truth.

  28. avatar
    SFJeff April 15, 2010 at 8:53 pm #

    Natives of Kenya- unless both parents are American Citizens- aren’t considered Natural born citizens and therefore aren’t eligible.

    The President of the United States, and the State of Hawaii however say he was born in Hawaii- and thats is why he was elected and confirmed as President.

    However, one thing is correct. If Obama was not black, this whole smear about him being born in Kenya wouldn’t have existed.

  29. avatar
    SFJeff April 15, 2010 at 8:56 pm #

    Relevant exactly how? I really don’t know- or don’t care- whether the Democratic party of the second half of the 19th century started the KKK.

    Neither the Republicans or the Democrats are exactly the party they were in 1870, or even in 1958.

  30. avatar
    SFJeff April 15, 2010 at 8:59 pm #

    Yep- we don’t read laws or nutton- we just rely upon what WND and Orly and Kenyan politicians feed us….

    Oh wait thats the Birthers…

  31. avatar
    SFJeff April 15, 2010 at 9:03 pm #

    What country do you come from ttb?

    Here in the United States, one of our essential principals is that the accussed is assumed innocent and the accusers have the burden of proving guilt.

    Hint: President Obama was legally elected and is our legal President. If our voters don’t like him, they can vote him out, or their representatives can find some excuse to impeach him. Thats how things are done in our country, probably not in yours.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 15, 2010 at 9:57 pm #

    SFJeff: Neither the Republicans or the Democrats are exactly the party they were in 1870, or even in 1958.

    That puts it mildly. In 1958 they talked about the “solid South” referring to the monopoly the Democratic party held in the southern United States. That has been replaced today by a solid band of red (Republican states). The populist sentiments of the South haven’t changed; the political parties have changed radically.

  33. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- April 15, 2010 at 10:28 pm #

    You’re upset there’s an uppity negro in the White House.

    Those bedsheets in your closet with the eyeholes cut out? You own them, ‘baby’.

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 15, 2010 at 10:32 pm #

    tfb: James Orengo, Presidential Cabinet level Land Minister and Attorney states that Obama was born in Kenya and is not a native of the USA.

    So does Orly Taitz, but neither of them has reason to know.

  35. avatar
    Greg April 15, 2010 at 10:38 pm #

    Here’s an interesting factoid:

    The concepts of “taxation without representation” and “innocent until proven guilty” were inspired by Lord Coke. The first, for example, came directly out of Calvin’s Case.

    Calvin’s Case defines natural born subject as born within the nation, regardless of parental citizenship.

  36. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 15, 2010 at 10:40 pm #

    tfb: Indeed, BNA81 made him a full Brit before KIA63 expired,
    You, Obamaconspiracy.ORG = PWND

    BNA 1981 also repealed all of Section 1 of the BNA 1948 which created citizenship in the UK and Colonies in the first place.

    You should read all the material before committing yourself to a position.

    The long version is in these two articles:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/04/is-president-obama-a-british-citizen/
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/09/donofrio-v-factcheck-org/

  37. avatar
    Greg April 15, 2010 at 10:47 pm #

    Yes, the KKK was formed by the Democrats.

    However, more recently, Nixon adopted what he called the “Southern Strategy,” which played to the fears of whites throughout the South. Here’s how his political advisor described the Southern Strategy:

    From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don’t need any more than that… but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That’s where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.

    The strategy was, then, explicitly about getting racists to quit the Democratic Party and become Republicans.

    Own that, tfb!

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 15, 2010 at 10:50 pm #

    tfb, please do not make essentially the same comment in multiple threads. Once is OK. Twice is littering.

  39. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 15, 2010 at 10:54 pm #

    tfb: Well since OBAMACONSPIRACY.ORG DOES NOT BOTHER TO READ THE ACTUAL LAWS AND JUST BLATHERS NONSENSE they can sit and gloat as to their righteousness, based on only their psychiatric mental assessment of things.

    Apparently tfb never learned how to behave as a guest. Besides the insult above, the Orengo link has been posted at least three times. I’ve put tfb in moderation until I see more civility and less disruption. Moderation means that comments will not appear until approved by me; and I will not approve repetitive comments, nor insulting remarks.

    You’re entitled to your opinions, but this is not your blog, and you are not welcome to trash it.

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 15, 2010 at 10:59 pm #

    tfb: Compare the dates: KIA63 expired his Kenyan citizenship by his 23rd birthday, Aug 4, 1983
    but the BNA 1981 had already made him a full British Citizen by January 1 1983 made him a full British Citizen.

    While you accuse me of not reading the law, it is your knowledge of the details that is faulty. The section of BNA 1948 that created citizenship in the UK and Colonies was repealed by BNA 1981. The citizenship you claim BNA 1981 made full was contingent on a citizenship that it destroyed in another section. Before digging yourself deeper into a hole, read these:

    British Nationality Act 1948
    Kenya Independence Act 1963
    British Nationality Act 1981 (Especially Schedule 9)
    The Constitution of Kenya

  41. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 11:51 pm #

    Nope, be careful about your statement. Only one person in the entire Hawaii government, Fukino, ever said Obama was born there. Everyone else, from Lingle to the Attorney General, have refused to corroborate her statement.
    Further, in Hawaii divulging ANY information from a vital document without the party of interest’s specific permission to disclose is a misdemeanor crime. If we assume Fukino is not guilty of misconduct, then Obama had to have given her permission to make a statement, and once he allowed her to make his vital document information public, it is no longer protected by privacy laws and must be disclosed. So no matter which way you spin it, Fukino is a shill at best and a criminal at worst, breaking at least one or more Hawaii laws.
    Hawaii AG refuses to corroborate. Everyone knows he was not born there. Anyone could get a Hawaii COLB; it was built into their laws to grant citizenship to their slave pool to build their welfare rolls.
    Further, his COLB is a total forgery and has been presented in nonredacted form, so that Hawaii information laws also require that a duplicate be produced, which of course they cannot do since it does not exist.

    Nope, nobody says he was born in Hawaii, obviously. Duh.

  42. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 11:54 pm #

    A natural born citizen requires both parents be US citizens and the child born on US soil.

    No statutory US citizen is eligible to be president, says so in Article II. Even if Obama was born in Hawaii, which he wasn’t, he would only be a 14th amendment statutory US citizen, and the last time such a citizen was eligible to be president was for those alive in 1787.

  43. avatar
    tfb April 15, 2010 at 11:57 pm #

    Eisenhower put forth more civil rights than any US president. It was Demokkkrats who started Jim Crow laws. MLK was a Republican!

    Look, the whole GIST of the Demokkkrat party was to empower and profit themselves off the backs of their chosen “oppressed” persons. Now they will replace black Americans with Mexicans, their new “Mexislaves”. The Republican party was started for one thing only: To End Slavery. Lincoln was a Republican.

    Today, the Demokkkrats are really the Demarkkksists and the Republicans are RINOs. The Dem JFK would be a Republican today, the watered-down version.

  44. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 15, 2010 at 11:59 pm #

    tfb: So no matter which way you spin it, Fukino is a shill at best and a criminal at worst, breaking at least one or more Hawaii laws.

    Perhaps you should read those “Hawaii laws” before you go discrediting yourself further.

    First, Fukino is the one person who is the ultimate custodian of vital records for Hawaii. It is she and she alone who is in a position to state on behalf of Hawaii what is in the vital records and what is not. You make a big deal that other officials have “refused to corroborate”, but they simply are not in a position to, not having access to the records.

    Second, you accuse Dr. Fukino of a “misdemeanor crime” by saying that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, and here your ignorance of the law betrays you. The Health department is authorized to publish “index data” which is just a list of who was born and when. Dr. Fukino’s statement discloses nothing beyond the legally publishable index data. I would point out that when Obama was born in 1961 that exact same index data was sent to the newspapers, resulting in the two announcements of Obama’s birth that appeared in 1961.

    HRS §338-18 (d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.

    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm

    tfb, you are out of your depth here. This isn’t a birther blog; we know our business.

    The rest of your comment is unsupported fantasy.

  45. avatar
    tfb April 16, 2010 at 12:00 am #

    factcheck is totally bogus, Obama worked for Annenberg, give us a break, holy crap!

    factcheck my asz, pffft

    Obama did not go stateless, he was a British Citizen by DESCENT as his father and grandfather were both British Citizens by BIRTH.

    Now we know he was born in Kenya, he’s just an illegal alien criminal.

  46. avatar
    tfb April 16, 2010 at 12:04 am #

    It’s littering with GOLD.
    The fact is Obama’s father was not a US citizen, making him at best a statutory US citizen, thus ineligible.

    Now we know he was born in Kenya with FOUR official parliament statements, one by his grandmother, one by the Ambassador of Kenya, one by his wife, multiple by Obama himself, one by Bill Richardson, ETC.

    Now ask yourself, how many foreign parliaments said any other president was born in their country? ZERO. Let alone four times. Jeez, get real!!

    Obama is an illegal alien, a criminal, and there’s no law that says Americans have to abide Kenyan criminals.

  47. avatar
    tfb April 16, 2010 at 12:08 am #

    He cannot be president, since he’s an illegal alien.
    And anyone who follows an illegal leader is guilty of treason.
    That is why Lakin is putting his life, fortune, and family on the line: He will not commit fraud to perpetuate this fraud.

    Watch they squirm out of a court martial, Obama CANNOT afford discovery, he’s a fraud on every level, from Columbia to Harvard to being a lawyer and so-called professor, he’s an EMPTY SUIT and worse, an illegal alien usurper.

  48. avatar
    tfb April 16, 2010 at 12:09 am #

    KENYA is specifically included.

  49. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 16, 2010 at 12:13 am #

    tfb: KENYA is specifically included.

    What’s that supposed to mean? Is that some last gasp attempt to say something that sounds like it means something when you haven’t read any of the background material and haven’t a clue what you’re fallen into but are afraid to say something specific ’cause you know you screwed up? It’s too late to save face. You came in all arrogant ’cause you read somebody’s blog and they sounded like they knew what they were talking about. Now all the sudden I point out that your precious law was repealed, and you didn’t know that because folks who make these Obama denialist web sites are not honest about the facts, but select what sounds good and hope folks like you are too stupid to look under the hood. Well you came to the WRONG PLACE. We don’t suffer fools kindly. There are nearly 36,000 comments on this blog and I may fairly say that we’ve heard it all.

    So you say “KENYA is specifically included.” Included as a what? In what? By what? I’m sure you don’t know.

    Read Schedule 9 to see the specific sections of legislation repealed by BNA 1981. It’s on Page 15 page of BNA 1981. Then go leave some of your insulting comments on the web sites that set you up.

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 16, 2010 at 12:14 am #

    So, we may conclude from your comment if the Lakin court martial proceeds, then you agree that Obama is the legitimate president of the United States?

  51. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 16, 2010 at 12:16 am #

    tfb: A natural born citizen requires both parents be US citizens and the child born on US soil.

    The entire Congress of the United States seems to disagree with you. But then what is Congress compared with your monumental sense of your own worth?

  52. avatar
    Greg April 16, 2010 at 12:45 am #

    says so in Article II.

    There’s nothing in Article II about “statutory citizens.”

    Basically, you’ve substituted your birther fantasies for legal analysis.

    I’m just curious, have you read any article about this subject that wasn’t written since 2008 and by a birther?

  53. avatar
    Greg April 16, 2010 at 12:58 am #

    Nope, be careful about your statement. Only one person in the entire Hawaii government, Fukino, ever said Obama was born there

    Not true. Alvin Onaka, registrar of the state of Hawaii signed the back of the COLB, attesting that it was a true and accurate copy or abstract of the records in the DOH’s possession. It could not be a true and accurate copy or abstract if Obama was born anywhere else.

    And Mr. Onaka has never taken any issue with his signature on the COLB.

    Additionally, no one in the government of Hawaii has taken any issue with Fukino’s statement. Thus, it is the official stance of the state of Hawaii.

    You want each and every government official to state that they agree with the statement? Down to dog-catcher?

    Here’s a thought. The governor is a Republican. Presumably, everyone she has appointed is a Republican. Not one of these highly placed Republicans has been moved to raise a single complaint about Fukino’s (a Republican appointee) statement.

  54. avatar
    Greg April 16, 2010 at 12:59 am #

    Mark Bennett, Hawaii’s AG, is also a Republican. He hasn’t taken issue with Fukino’s statement. He hasn’t raised a single problem with it.

  55. avatar
    misha April 16, 2010 at 1:37 am #

    tfb: Even if Obama was born in Hawaii, which he wasn’t

    Excellent point! I found a Kenya (Obama’s?) BC that’s right here.

    Keep up the fight!

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 16, 2010 at 2:49 am #

    tfb: factcheck is totally bogus, Obama worked for Annenberg, give us a break, holy crap!

    Obama worked for a community group called the Annenberg Chicago Challenge that was funded by the Annenberg Foundation. Obama was on the board of that group. He never worked directly for the Annenberg Foundation, one of the very most credible charities in the country. Annenberg Political FactCheck was recommended by Vice President Cheney during his VP debate. The Annenbergs are Republicans and gave significant funds to John McCain during the last election (look it up on the FEC web site). You can say “factcheck my asz” but you would be talking out of your asz when you said it. You should learn the difference between evidence and yelling.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 16, 2010 at 2:56 am #

    tfb: The fact is Obama’s father was not a US citizen, making him at best a statutory US citizen, thus ineligible.

    It was held by various courts that citizenship based on birth in the country was foundational to our government (Lynch v Clarke, Re: in Look Tin Sing, US v. Wong Kim Ark). It is not “statutory.” And certainly the 14th Amendment is not a “statute” and that makes everyone born in the US under US jurisdiction (which is everybody but certain persons we grant partial jurisdiction such as ambassadors and their families).

    Of all the remarks you refer to, only one actually says Obama was born in Kenya and that was by someone who has no special information (Orengo). Obama’s step grandmother (and his uncle Sayid Obama) said he was not born in Kenya. Listen to the whole grandmother tape, not the sliced up part used to make it sound otherwise.

    tfb: Now ask yourself, how many foreign parliaments said any other president was born in their country?

    I know how many American congresses voted unanimously to approve the qualifications and the election of Barack Obama. I’ll take 535 US Congressman over one Kenyan minister of lands any day. Jeez, get real!

    Perhaps you should move to Kenya and become a Kenyan citizen, since you respect their government so much more than ours.

  58. avatar
    SFJeff April 16, 2010 at 3:01 am #

    I always love it when Birthers say this about Factcheck, which shows they have never read Factcheck. Easy enough to find Factcheck articles critical of President Obama- they call him out on his misrepresentations just as they do the Republicans.

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 16, 2010 at 3:06 am #

    tfb: Eisenhower put forth more civil rights than any US president. It was Demokkkrats who started Jim Crow laws. MLK was a Republican!

    Lincoln was a Republican, but he wouldn’t be a Republican today (a fair number of Republicans today are in favor of their state seceding from the union!). There has been a massive shift to the right in the Republican party since the time of Nixon. Eisenhower would be called a RINO today. Supreme Court Justice Stevens, a Republican, is now considered a liberal. He said this week that he hadn’t changed during his 30 years on the court, but that the court had shifted to the right.

    But your whole rant is an ad hominem argument, and is formally invalid.

  60. avatar
    Greg April 16, 2010 at 11:39 am #

    Yes, in the past, Democrats were racists and Republicans fought slavery.

    Then, in the 60s, the Republicans followed a “Southern Strategy.”

    Encourage blacks to join the Democratic party and then the racist whites would join the Republican party.

    Here’s Nixon’s advisor explaining the policy:

    The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans.

    There’s a reason why Democrats win 95% of the black population in elections, tfb, and it’s not because the Republicans were against slavery when they were founded! It’s because the Republicans consciously and deliberately became the party of white racists in the 60s and haven’t shaken that image or completely abandoned that philosophy, since.

    By the way, Martin Luther King Sr. officially and publicly changed his party affiliation from Republican to Democrat in 1960. King Jr. voted for Kennedy in 1960 and for LBJ in 1964. He publicly denounced the Republican candidate Barry Goldwater. Exactly what evidence do you have that King Jr. was ever a Republican?

  61. avatar
    SFJeff April 16, 2010 at 12:38 pm #

    “And anyone who follows an illegal leader is guilty of treason.”

    I love how Birthers just make up the law. They profess this grand support for the Constitution, and beat their chests and pull their hair about how the Constitution is being torn down- and then they just make stuff up about the law.

    Hint: The Constitution spells out Treason.

    Again- what country do you come from tfb? Maybe North Korea? The way I figure it- you don’t seem to grasp the American concept of justice, and you seem to be working to disrupt the U.S. government- so I can only assume you come from a country that isn’t familiar with the U.S. concept of ‘innocent until proven guilty’.

    Of course if you aren’t an American- then you wouldn’t be committing treason.

  62. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:05 pm #

    Doc Conspiracy:
    Even you say “Who” and “When” not “Who” and “Where”
    We will know what the underlying evidence is only if we can examine Obama’s contemporaneous birth certificate from 1961 which is readily available since Obama claims he was born in Kapi’olani Medical Center in 1961. That root document will tell us the name of the hospital in which he was born and the name of the doctor who delivered him. Those pieces of information are highly corroborative of the place and time of birth, for they provide a whole other dimension of contemporaneous facts that would support Hawaii’s or anybody else’s bare statement as to the place and time of Obama’s birth.
    What’s obvious to all but fraudsters, is that Obama has no root birth certificate. All he has is a COLB which was filed but never accepted (this is the critical part, anyone can file any piece of garbage, and that generates a file)–a COLB which is a proven forgery.
    You guys are just enemies of the USA. You all know he is an illegal alien, which suits your ends too. Stop beating around the bush, it’s all out in the open now. Just ask Clarence Thomas!

  63. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:09 pm #

    D.C.
    Go read Minor v. Happersett, it spells out what a natural born citizen is.
    Article II says no statutory citizen can be NBC, and with an alien parent, that makes one only a statutory citizen.
    Even Congress does not officially recognize duals either, go read 1401.
    Also go read the Civil Rights Act of 1866 never overturned; that would make Obama not even a US citizen even if he was born in Hawaii.

    C’mon, you are just the enemy and you hate America, and that’s why you love bankrupting disarming ruining racist divisive anti-American fascist marxist Obama. Bet you work for GE too.

  64. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:13 pm #

    Greg: Article II clearly differentiates between a natural born Citizen and a Citizen, the latter defined by the 14th amendment/US Code 1401.

    You see, there’s no need for a statute to define a natural born citizen, since they have no other option but being American.

    EVERY STATUTORY US CITIZEN IS BORN WITH SOME OTHER NATION-TIE. IN NO CASE ARE ANY NATURAL BORN CITIZENS EVER BORN WITH ANY OTHER NATION TIE THAN AMERICAN.

    Pretty simple. Enemies of America hate that.

  65. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:23 pm #

    If they have the balls to court martial Lakin and he gets discovery as is his due to defend himself, then we shall all see what Obama coughs up.
    Maybe Obama just likes paying Perkins Coie $2.2million for no reason.
    Come on admit it, you are just the enemy of the USA and you love that Obama is an illegal alien destroying this country. It’d be a breath of fresh air. Pelosi already admits it, why not you?

  66. avatar
    Scientist April 17, 2010 at 8:23 pm #

    EVERY STATUTORY US CITIZEN IS BORN WITH SOME OTHER NATION-TIE. IN NO CASE ARE ANY NATURAL BORN CITIZENS EVER BORN WITH ANY OTHER NATION TIE THAN AMERICAN.

    Babies are born naked, not with ties.

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2010 at 8:25 pm #

    Of course I have read Minor v Happersett, and know it well enough that I don’t have to go back and read it again.

    Minor does not define natural born citizen, but rather gives a sufficient condition for one to be a citizen (e.g., born in the United States to citizen parents) something we all agree is a sufficient condition. It does not, however, make this a requirement and commented that some folks have doubts on this point. It is also reasonably certain that the court in Minor was of the opinion that “natural born citizen” and “born a citizen” are equivalent phrases (as courts have throughout our history freely intermingled these terms, as they do “native born” and “natural born”). Later on, the Supreme Court in US v Wong resolved that doubt and stated that the children of aliens born in the United States are born citizens, and used natural born citizen language in the argument.

    George Washington’s own appointed US District Attorney to Pennsylvania wrote in his influential book A View of the Constitution that the children of aliens born in the United States are “natural born citizens.” This is the way it has always been.

    I don’t work for GE, whatever that means.

  68. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:26 pm #

    That’s one presidential cabinet member, attorney, land minister from Kenya, plus three other ministers, so that’s four, plus the Kenyan Ambassador, Michelle (you calling Michelle a liar too?), Obama himself, Bill Richardson, 13 credible publications, his grandmother…

    Congress allowed this destruction to happen to the USA.
    Come on admit it DC, you love the dismantling of this country, by no less than an illegal alien. Pretty funny stuff isn’t it?

  69. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:27 pm #

    I myself was born in a birthday suit, thank you very much.

  70. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:29 pm #

    Wong says that children of aliens are not natural born citizens, but they are as much a CITIZEN as are children of citizens.

    Obama if born in Hawaii, which he wasn’t would only have been a Citizen.

    No statutory US citizen can ever be a natural born citizen.

    DUH! Because NBCs can ONLY be American, they do not need any statute to define their citizenship.

    So very duh. Now admit it, you love that Obama is an illegal alien destroying the USA.

  71. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:37 pm #

    Say what’s the fraudster spin on Clarence Thomas joking sarcastically that SCOTUS is evading the eligibility issue?
    We always await the ridiculous Obot twist on obvious points.
    Why not just admit you all hate America and love it’s being brought down to destruction by an illegal alien?

  72. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2010 at 8:41 pm #

    The name of the hospital, the major maternity hospital in Honolulu, would tell you next to nothing. The doctor is most likely dead by now. (The leading contender, Dr. Rodney West, died a few years back.) I think the Certificate of Live Birth, the statement of the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health who inspected the records and two contemporary newspaper announcements are infinitely more corroborative than what you’re asking for. I fully believe that if the hospital document ever surfaces, the tune of all the birthers will switch to say “it means nothing”.

    Your filed/accepted objection is nonsense. Birth certificates are never printed unless the record meets all the requirements for registration. The fact that it says on its face that the document is “prima facie evidence” proves it was accepted. I work in this field. If a record has anything wrong with it, it is flagged for “no print.” It says “filed” on the COLB because the date filed is the information required by the US Department of State for a passport. (Records must be filed within one year of the date of birth.)

    I really don’t appreciate the insults: “you guys are just enemies of the USA.” You know no more about me or the others here than you do about Constitutional Law, Vital Records, or pretty much anything else you’ve said on this blog. Truth is never the enemy and that’s all you’ll find in my articles and comments. If you can’t handle the truth, go read WorldNetDaily.

  73. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2010 at 8:54 pm #

    tfb: Say what’s the fraudster spin on Clarence Thomas joking sarcastically that SCOTUS is evading the eligibility issue?

    Well if he was “joking” then my spin would be that he “was joking.” Duh.

    But he wasn’t joking. He was good-naturedly evading the question of whether a person born in Puerto Rico could run for president in answer to a question by Rep. Jose Serrano (born in Puerto Rico). Watch the video. This has nothing to do with Obama’s eligibility but that of Rep. Serrano.

    See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7qEH-tKoXA&feature=player_embedded

    tfb, it’s TFB, but you have been PWND yet again.

  74. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2010 at 9:05 pm #

    tfb: Wong says that children of aliens are not natural born citizens, but they are as much a CITIZEN as are children of citizens.

    The full citation is:

    The amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born within the territory of the United States of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States. Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States. His allegiance to the United States is direct and immediate, and, although but local and temporary, continuing only so long as he remains within our territory, is yet, in the words of Lord Coke in Calvin’s Case, 7 Coke, 6a, ‘strong enough to make a natural subject, for, if he hath issue here, that issue is a natural-born subject’; and his child, as said by Mr. Binney in his essay before quoted, ‘If born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle.’

    So far from saying such are “not” natural born citizens, it says they are. You are guilty of taking a quote out of context. As a last gasp defense, you might plead that natural born citizen is completely different than natural born subject, but I wouldn’t recommend it because the Wong opinion also said:

    “Subject’ and citizen’ are, in a degree, convertible terms as applied to natives; and though the term citizen’ seems to be appropriate to republican freemen, yet we are, equally with the inhabitants of all other countries, ’subjects,’ for we are equally bound by allegiance and subjection to the government and law of the land.’

    tfb, TFB, PWND again.

  75. avatar
    Scientist April 17, 2010 at 9:08 pm #

    How do you know?

  76. avatar
    misha April 17, 2010 at 9:13 pm #

    “Babies are born naked, not with ties.”

    They’re not even born with a diaper.

  77. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2010 at 9:15 pm #

    None of 13 the people you cite (12 of them out of context) has any reason to know where Obama was born. You said: “Congress allowed this destruction to happen to the USA.”

    How can you explain no Democrat or Republican objecting to the certification of Obama’s election? Your world view is logically inconsistent.

  78. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2010 at 9:17 pm #

    Lakin, unless he backs down, will have his court martial and he will not get discovery (for reasons adequately explained by the attorneys who comment here), and then I will tell you that you have been PWND once more.

  79. avatar
    misha April 17, 2010 at 9:20 pm #

    “Now admit it, you love that Obama is an illegal alien destroying the USA.”

    You are correct. Here is my tribute to Lenin.

  80. avatar
    misha April 17, 2010 at 9:25 pm #

    “Now admit it, you love that Obama is an illegal alien destroying the USA.”

    Guilty! I am a communist!

    товарищ – ´а!

  81. avatar
    misha April 17, 2010 at 9:35 pm #

    tfb: your hero, Orly Taitz, is actually a KGB agent!

    Better be careful!

  82. avatar
    Expelliarmus April 17, 2010 at 10:10 pm #

    I’d point out that a Puerto Rican birth would present a different question as to “natural born” because of the unique status of Puerto Rico as a commonwealth. Individuals born in Puerto Rico are deemed US Citizens by statute (the Jones-Shafroth Act) – but they are not allowed to vote in federal elections unless they reside in one of the 50 states or D.C.

    The Congressional Research Office issued a report in 2001 that said the following:

    Citizens born in Guam, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands are legally defined as“natural born” citizens, and are, therefore, also eligible to be elected President, provided they meet qualifications of age and 14 years residence within the United States. Residence in Puerto Rico and U.S. territories and possessions does not qualify as residence within the United States for these purposes.

    Source: Presidential Elections in the United States: A
    Primer
    , part I, fn. 2.

    In other words, birth in Puerto Rico meets the “natural born” test, but life in Puerto Rico doesn’t meet the 14-year residency test.

    Jose Serrano, however, has lived in the US since the age of 7 (in 1950), when his family moved to the Bronx in NY. He has represented his Bronx district in the US Congress since 1990. So clearly he would also meet the residency requirement. However, he is also a tireless advocate for Puerto Rican citizenship rights, including giving Puerto Rican’s the opportunity to vote for statehood — this is probably the source and context of Clarence Thomas’ light hearted remark.

  83. avatar
    Expelliarmus April 17, 2010 at 10:15 pm #

    Say what’s the fraudster spin on Clarence Thomas joking sarcastically that SCOTUS is evading the eligibility issue?

    Thomas was probably referring to the US Supreme Court’s refusing to rule on the issue of Puerto Rican citizenship rights in the cases reported in this article:
    http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/vol3n48/SCDeniesReview-en.html

  84. avatar
    G April 17, 2010 at 11:18 pm #

    tfb – all your crap is just weak, long debunked birther talking points that are such dead-horse issues that the only response worthy of your idiocy is to tell you to educate yourself and read the articles on this site.

    Every lame point you’ve regurgitated here has been covered, debated and thoroughly debunked so many times its not even funny.

    You are nothing but a bitter and angry fool stuck in the past and unable to get past the tantrum stage.

  85. avatar
    G April 17, 2010 at 11:28 pm #

    Well, Lakin will be court martialed, just as we predicted here. Just as all these frivolous birther cases have been dismissed, just as we predicted here.

    Which leaves most of us here as living in the real world and being right, while you are just a pathetic bitter loser with nothing but EPIC FAIL on your side and nothing but BS and hateful nonsense to spew, because you are a just a pathetic sore loser that can’t handle the truth.

  86. avatar
    Rickey April 18, 2010 at 12:04 am #

    tfb says:

    Wong says that children of aliens are not natural born citizens, but they are as much a CITIZEN as are children of citizens.

    Wrong.

    In addition to what Doc C. told you, the District Court ruled that Wong Kim Ark was a natural-born citizen. The government acknowledged this fact in its SCOTUS appeal (which, incidentally, is one of the most racist legal filings I have ever seen). The Supreme Court upheld the District Court ruling without exception, so Wong Kim Ark was in fact a natural-born citizen and he was eligible to be President of the United States.

    Legal research requires doing more than merely parroting the arguments you have seen on birther websites.

  87. avatar
    G April 18, 2010 at 1:27 am #

    Wow, tfb, are you proud of your ignorance? Do you come from some Bizarro world where everything is the opposite of reality in this world? Are you intentionally trying to be as wrong as possible as often as possible, or are you just that dumb?

    You have no clue what you are talking about.

    In the simplest terms that even an elementary kid can understand, there are only 2 types of citizens in the us – those born as citizens (NBC) and those who go through the process of naturalization to become US citizens. The 14th amendment isn’t that hard to read or understand.

    I can’t fathom how you can be so obtuse that you can’t even grasp such a simple concept with only TWO options!

  88. avatar
    tfb April 18, 2010 at 6:03 am #

    quid
    pro
    quo

    Demokkkrats didn’t arrest Bush,
    Reps and RINOs kept their mouths shut

  89. avatar
    tfb April 18, 2010 at 6:11 am #

    The two types are statutory and natural born citizens.
    All statutory citizens are born with a tie to another nation.
    This is NEVER the case with a natural born citizen. Natural Born Citizens are 100% American, parents, birthplace, there are no other ties to any other nation at all.

    Your argument is a contrived conflation and omits huge categories. For example, you omitted all of US Code 1401.

  90. avatar
    tfb April 18, 2010 at 6:14 am #

    DC is PWND using Wong, which proves you wrong.
    “Subject” comes from British Common Law not Natural Law as does the Constitution.

    But I admire your being so “green”; you keep recycling all the old Obot arguments.

    Meanwhile Obama is taking over Wallstreet, and moving for Cap and Tax while a huge volcanic ash plume from NWO bankrupted Iceland will cause global cooling for years.
    Your marxist destroyer is a foreigner and illegal alien, which you obviously love, like misha.

  91. avatar
    tfb April 18, 2010 at 6:16 am #

    Why take offense to the term enemy? If you promote a fellow enemy, why not enjoy it? FDIC closed another 8 banks today; some “recovery” eh?
    Obama’s at negative 17 approval index on Rasmussen. That resilient 29% keep giving him thumbs up even after he has gutted the treasury and accomplished one fascist takeover after another. Insatiable path of destruction.

  92. avatar
    tfb April 18, 2010 at 6:17 am #

    No clicking.

  93. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 18, 2010 at 9:25 am #

    The Rasmussen poll consistently places Obama lower than all other polls, as it has since before the election.

  94. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 18, 2010 at 9:28 am #

    tfb: DC is PWND using Wong, which proves you wrong.

    So you are saying that you know more than the Supreme Court. I’m sure you think that way, as evidenced by many of your remarks, but you might as well be farting in the wind for all the good it will do you. The Supreme Court in Smith v. Alabama made it clear that the terms in the Constitution are defined according to the English Common law. Some of the States (such as South Carolina) even have the English Common Law explicitly written into them.

    So you do not have leg to stand on. TFB, PWND.

  95. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 18, 2010 at 9:32 am #

    tfb: The two types are statutory and natural born citizens. All statutory citizens are born with a tie to another nation.

    That’s a pretty stupid remark. Statutory are citizens by “statute”. The US Constitution (including the 14th amendment) is not a statute. People born in the United States are citizens by the Constitution.

  96. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 18, 2010 at 9:35 am #

    All 535 of them? Your delusions are pitiful.

  97. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 18, 2010 at 9:39 am #

    tfb, if you had actually read any history of the Constitution, you would know that terms used in the US Constitution come from British Common Law. See Smith v. Alabama. The following from US v Wong.

    The Constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words, either by way of inclusion or of exclusion, except insofar as this is done by the affirmative declaration that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.” In this as in other respects, it must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the Constitution. Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. 162; Ex parte Wilson, 114 U.S. 417, 422; Boyd v. United States, 116 U.S. 616, 624, 625; Smith v. Alabama, 124 U.S. 465. The language of the Constitution, as has been well said, could not be understood without reference to the common law. Kent Com. 336; Bradley, J., in Moore v. United States, 91 U.S. 270, 274. [p655]

    In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said: “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.” And he proceeded to resort to the common law as an aid in the construction of this provision. 21 Wall. 167.

    In Smith v. Alabama, Mr. Justice Matthews, delivering the judgment of the court, said:

    There is no common law of the United States, in the sense of a national customary law, distinct from the common law of England as adopted by the several States each for itself, applied as its local law, and subject to such alteration as may be provided by its own statutes. . . . There is, however, one clear exception to the statement that there is no national common law. The interpretation of the Constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history.

    Why did Judge Waite write: “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens”? The case at hand was not about presidential eligibility, but about whether Minor (a woman) could vote. He then proceeded to determine that Minor was a citizen from birth. It is clear from the context that the judge considered “natural-born citizen” to refer to those who are citizens at birth.

  98. avatar
    BatGuano April 18, 2010 at 9:50 am #

    ….. and accomplished one fascist takeover after another.Insatiable path of destruction.

    you do realize that obama just proposed taking a large chunk of the space program away from nasa and turning it over to private companies. if he’s fascist he’s doing it wrong.

  99. avatar
    Scientist April 18, 2010 at 9:54 am #

    FDIC closed another 8 banks today; some “recovery” eh?

    48 with the year more than 1/4 gone. Works out to around 180 for the year.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SmNKVjMJ7-I/AAAAAAAAF2g/GJzmKvwUREQ/s1600-h/FDICBankFailures2.jpg

    There were 534 in 1989. Who was President then (Bush Sr)? Was he an NBC? Have you seen his BC? Perhaps he was really a Saudi citizen?? After all, he used to call the Saudi ambassador, Bandar bin Sultan, “Bandar Bush”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan

  100. avatar
    Mike April 18, 2010 at 3:27 pm #

    By the way, Martin Luther King Sr. officially and publicly changed his party affiliation from Republican to Democrat in 1960. King Jr. voted for Kennedy in 1960 and for LBJ in 1964. He publicly denounced the Republican candidate Barry Goldwater. Exactly what evidence do you have that King Jr. was ever a Republican?

    He claimed privately, according to several sources, and in at least one public speech, to be a democratic socialist.

  101. avatar
    Mike April 18, 2010 at 3:30 pm #

    They’re called reception statues, and are pretty common amongst former British overseas possessions; even Hong Kong still uses the common law.

  102. avatar
    SFJeff April 18, 2010 at 4:03 pm #

    TTB, you ignorant slut.(my apologies to SNL)

    Really- if President Obama ended all conflict in the world, ended all unemployment you would still be crying that it was all a plot.

    You are ignorant of American ideals of justice, you are ignorant about the constitution, and you are ignorant about economics.

    You are and your birther fellow travellers are the true enemies of the Constitution- willing to bend or destroy it to satisfy your own political ideals.

    You slander the President without shame. You weep crocodile tears about how he is destroying the country, yet you would be willing to rip apart the fabric the United States just to see the destruction of a President you fear.

    You hate the fact that this liberal black man was overwhelmingly elected by American voters. You hate the fact that the economy is recovering despite the valient efforts of the Republicans and their ‘just say no’ policy.

    So I ask again- what country are you from, and why are you working to destroy America?

  103. avatar
    Arthur April 18, 2010 at 8:18 pm #

    Misha:

    I think I understand.

    “´а! ´а!”
    Tristan Tzara, 1916

  104. avatar
    Mike April 18, 2010 at 8:26 pm #

    I don’t know, Doc; I think it might be a distinction without difference to say that the COTUS isn’t statute, tfb’s nonsense notwithstanding.

  105. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny April 19, 2010 at 9:06 am #

    Wong says that children of aliens are not natural born citizens, but they are as much a CITIZEN as are children of citizens.

    You do know that Eisenhower was a citizen of the German Empire when born, right? And he was because his father was one.

    From Wikipedia on Wong Kim Ark (which was decided after Eisenhower was born, but when he still had German nationality):

    “The dissenters acknowledged that other children of foreigners — including freed slaves — had, through the years, acquired U.S. citizenship through birth on U.S. soil. But they still saw a difference between those people and U.S.-born individuals of Chinese ancestry, because of (1) strong cultural traditions discouraging Chinese immigrants from assimilating into mainstream American society, (2) Chinese laws of the time which made acquiring a new citizenship or renouncing allegiance to the Chinese emperor a capital crime and (3) the provisions of the Chinese Exclusion Act making Chinese immigrants already in the United States ineligible for citizenship.”

    1) and 2) also applied to Americans of German ancestry.

    Oh, and like Obama, Eisenhower lost his German nationality at age 23.

  106. avatar
    Greg April 19, 2010 at 11:41 am #

    Wong says that children of aliens are not natural born citizen

    You won’t find anything in Wong that says the children of aliens are not natural born citizens.

    Why don’t you take the day and read Wong, instead of simply cutting and pasting from Donofrio’s site? Tell me, how did Gray conclude that Wong was a citizen? As far as I can tell, it was because “natural born citizen” meant the exact same as “natural born subject.”

    Why did the dissent think that Gray had made Wong eligible for the Presidency?

    IN NO CASE ARE ANY NATURAL BORN CITIZENS EVER BORN WITH ANY OTHER NATION TIE THAN AMERICAN.

    Actually, since some nations operate on jus soli and others on jus sanguinis, there are instances where someone born here to naturalized aliens (U.S. citizens, in other words) could be a citizen of another nation as well.

    Poland, for example, considered everyone of Polish descent to be Polish citizens, regardless of whether their ancestors had ever naturalized in the United States. If you went to Poland, and had a Polish last name, they required you to get a Polish exit Visa. You can check the State Department website for a travel advisory about this.

    Greece and Italy had similar policies. Here’s the State Department’s warning about Greece:

    In addition to being subject to all Greek laws affecting U.S. citizens, dual nationals may also be subject to other laws that impose special obligations on Greek citizens. Greek males between the ages of 20 and 45 are required by Greek law to perform military service. This applies to any individual whom the Greek authorities consider to be Greek, regardless of whether or not the individual considers himself Greek, has a foreign citizenship and passport, or was born or lives outside of Greece. If remaining in Greece for more than the 90-day period permitted for tourism or business, men of Greek descent may be prevented from leaving Greece until they complete their military obligations. Generally, obligatory non-voluntary military service in Greece will not affect US citizenship. Specific questions on this subject should be addressed to the citizenship section of the US Embassy in Athens. For additional information, see our information on Citizenship and Nationality. For additional information regarding military service requirements, contact the nearest Greek embassy or consulate as listed above.

    Spiro Agnew, therefore, if he had traveled back to Greece before his 45th birthday and stayed more than 3 months, could have been seized and forced to serve in the Greek Army and the US Embassy could do nothing about it!