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Birther math (part 3)

Here we continue the analysis of a A Catalog of Evidence – Concerned Americans Have Good Reason to Doubt that Putative President Obama Was Born in Hawaii by attorney Mario Apuzzo. We’re adding up the value of the items in his catalog picking up from Birther math Part 2.

So far our total is zero, summing a compendium of vague statements from people who had no reason to know what Apuzzo would lead us to think they said. Nothing thing he has presented so far would be admissible as evidence in court, since at best it is hearsay, and at worst outright misrepresentation.

Let’s move on to item 11.

(11) Obama has refused to give consent to Kapi’olani Medical Center for it to release minimal documents confirming he was born there as he claims;

As I like to say, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. The release of any information would do nothing but increase the buzz of misinformation. The hospital has, however, published in its newsletter a statement from the President that he was born at Kapi’olani.

Score: 0.

(12) No witness with any personal information has come forward to confirm he was born in Honolulu;

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Why would someone remember a nobody born almost 50 years ago?

Score: 0.

(13) New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson publicly stated during the 2008 campaign that Obama was an immigrant;

While one may argue about what Richardson meant, the point is that he has no knowledge of where Obama was born and so his testimony, whatever it is, carries no weight.

Score: 0.

(14) Obama has refused to release to the public his education, work, and travel documents (including passports he used for international travel);

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. The release of any information would do nothing but increase the buzz of misinformation.

Score: 0.

(15) Obama’s kindergarten records have allegedly disappeared;

That’s probably true of must all 49-year-old people in the United  States. Is this supposed to be a matter of concern?

Score: 0.

I think Mario Apuzzo should be paying royalties to WorldNetDaily, who along with Phil Berg wrote most everything here. Talk about “shop floor sweepings!” What a total waste of time. Stay tuned for Part 4.

29 Responses to Birther math (part 3)

  1. avatar
    Reality Check June 26, 2010 at 5:19 pm #

    RE: #12

    We have account of Babara Nelson, one of Barack Obama’s elementary school teachers of her conversation with Dr. Rodney West on the evening of Obama’s birth. While this would be hearsay if taken in isolation it is compelling evidence in light of the contemporary newspaper accounts. However, if we apply the birther rules of evidence it is devastating.

  2. avatar
    James June 26, 2010 at 5:24 pm #

    11) Obama has refused to give consent to Kapi’olani Medical Center for it to release minimal documents confirming he was born there as he claims;

    Absolutely true. The letter that apparently was released is a fabricated letter that that White House refuses to acknowledge.

    “While you and the president were overseas on July the 7th, there was on the Internet a copy of a letter on White House letterhead dated January the 24th, 2009, with the signature “Barack Obama,” which stated, “The place of my birth was Honolulu’s Kapi’olani Medical Center.” And my question is, can you verify this letter? Or if not, would you tell us which Hawaiian hospital he was born in, since Kapi’olani, which used to publicize this, now refuses to confirm?

    Gibbs said, without responding directly to the question about the veracity of the letter, “Goodness gracious. I’m going to be, like, in year four describing where it is the president was born. I don’t have the letter at my fingertips, obviously, and I don’t know the name of the exact hospital.”

    Addition, Tim Adams ha said that he was told as well as by others by the hospital that there is long-form BC for Obama.

    Score: 50

  3. avatar
    James June 26, 2010 at 5:28 pm #

    (12) No witness with any personal information has come forward to confirm he was born in Honolulu;

    This is a big one. No credible witness has ever come forward. No doc, nurse or staff work. The lady who gave birth to twins does remember seeing Stanely or baby Obama even though that should be right there. The lady’s husband was apparently a doctor but knew nothing about Obama’s birth that day.

    Ordinarly I would think someone would remember nonfamous Joe Blow. But someone would remember a black baby named Barack Hussein Obama being born who has become the 44th POTUS.

    Score: 80

  4. avatar
    nbC June 26, 2010 at 5:40 pm #

    Funny how James continues to show why Mario’s vacuous ‘arguments’ still ‘make sense’ to some, allowing themselves to be enslaved by falsehoods and innuendos.

    Fascinating

  5. avatar
    AnotherBird June 26, 2010 at 9:13 pm #

    Hearsay isn’t evidence. The absence of unrelated documentation isn’t evidence. So we have 15 arguments so far and none disprove a Hawaiian birth. Why do birthers bother continue, all they are doing is showing how wrong they are.

  6. avatar
    euphgeek June 27, 2010 at 9:03 am #

    James, you can continue to assign points to these arguments as much as you like, but you have to remember that hearsay and speculation are not admissible evidence in a court of law. The score remains at 0.

  7. avatar
    Reality Check June 27, 2010 at 9:30 am #

    James: (12) No witness with any personal information has come forward to confirm he was born in Honolulu;

    James
    How about Barbara Nelson? Also, let’s not forget Barack Obama himself, the President of the Untied States.

  8. avatar
    Reality Check June 27, 2010 at 10:04 am #

    PS: This claim is particularly stupid. How many people close to 50 years old with no living parents can say there are folks still alive who have personal knowledge of their birth?

    On the now defunct Plains Radio Joe Saebi interviewed Eleanor Nordyke and read something sinister into the fact that Dr. West and all 5 physicians on his staff had died since 1961. He said that it was certainly convenient that they had all died. Mrs. Nordyke reminded him that it had been almost 50 years since 1961.

  9. avatar
    Ellid June 27, 2010 at 10:23 am #

    I’m exactly one year older than the President, and not only are both my parents dead, they were dead by the time I was in my mid-30s. ALL my close blood relatives are dead, as are my pediatrician and the doctor who delivered me. If an obstreperous and intransigent fool like NC started pressing, I couldn’t produce anything other than my birth certificate (abstract/short form/state-issued) to prove that I was born in Pittsburgh since every possible witness except possibly a delivery nurse is dead. And I’m a seventh generation DAR-eligible WASP.

    The whole conspiracy thing is ridiculous.

  10. avatar
    Passerby June 27, 2010 at 10:33 am #

    James, I can’t help but wonder how old you are. Could you come up with a witness who would remember your birth, other than your parents?

    I’m a few years younger than Obama, and I’m almost certain I couldn’t. Keep in mind that someone who was 40 years old in 1961 would be almost 90 years old now, if they were still alive. A 30 year old in 1960 would be almost 80. So already, the pool of possible people would be pretty small, just because of natural mortality.

    And then there’s just the issue of remembering it. If anyone then had known he would grow up to be president, of course they would have taken note of it, but unfortunately they wouldn’t have known that. Granted that his circumstances were a little unusual, being biracial (not sure how unusual that was in Hawaii at that time, it would have been unusual when I was born), foreign father, foreign name. But still. It was 50 years ago!

    The kindergarten records one just makes me laugh. Kindergarten? Again, I’m close to Obama’s age, and I’d be willing to bet a pretty large amount that my kindergarten records no longer exist. It was a church kindergarten (at that time kindergarten was not only not at a state school, it was entirely optional, at least where I was.) Why on earth would they have kept those records?

    On HIPAA–I’m trying to remember. I could look it up. But IIRC, if a patient signs a waiver for release of information, it’s not a waiver for a general release. It has to be for release to a specific person. If I’m right, then every time some reporter or someone made a request, they’d have to get a separate waiver from the president to release the info to that person. That would be a little impractical, to say the least.

  11. avatar
    Scientist June 27, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    Passerby: James, I can’t help but wonder how old you are.

    Based on his credulity for every birther scam on the internets, James is probably 3.

  12. avatar
    Greg June 27, 2010 at 12:39 pm #

    James: This is a big one. No credible witness has ever come forward.

    The hospital my two children were born at is pretty large, at least 4 floors of recovery rooms. It might as well have been empty as far as the number of people I remember seeing.

    Here’s a clue, my children were being born. I had better things to do than to check the names of the people next to me.

    As for the people who worked there – two things:

    1. 49 years ago. That’s thousands, if not tens of thousands, of births.
    2. Doctor/patient confidentiality. You assume that if someone remembered Obama’s birth, they would be so cavalier about their professional duties as to share that information with people like you. People who have proven their ability to disbelieve even direct statements by the government and to slander everyone involved in their effort to set aside credible evidence.

  13. avatar
    Bob Weber June 27, 2010 at 3:05 pm #

    Ellid: I’m exactly one year older than the President, and not only are both my parents dead, they were dead by the time I was in my mid-30s.ALL my close blood relatives are dead, as are my pediatrician and the doctor who delivered me.If an obstreperous and intransigent fool like NC started pressing, I couldn’t produce anything other than my birth certificate (abstract/short form/state-issued) to prove that I was born in Pittsburgh since every possible witness except possibly a delivery nurse is dead.And I’m a seventh generation DAR-eligible WASP.The whole conspiracy thing is ridiculous.


    I can top that, easily. Since I was my parents’ first born, and my dad’s parents, all 7 of my dad’s siblings, my mom’s mother, and two of my mom’s siblings, lived in the city where I was born, I’m pretty sure that there must have been lots of visitor traffic to my mom’s room in the hospital. And yet in all these years, not one of my relatives has ever mentioned coming to visit the hospital after I was born. It’s not that important! For that matter, if I were asked in what hospital my own siblings were born, I could do no better than hazard a guess. We’ve never discussed it!

  14. avatar
    misha June 27, 2010 at 4:04 pm #

    Ellid, Bob Weber: The only reason I know the hospital, is because my mother told me. The only thing my mother told me about the physician, is she chose him because he was skilled at circumcision. She did not want it done at home by a mohel.

  15. avatar
    Ellid June 27, 2010 at 6:35 pm #

    The only reason I know the hospital name is because my great-grandfather had practiced there, and my mother thought it was an interesting coincidence.

    Misha – suddenly I’m reminded of the old fake commercial on Saturday Night Live for the Royal Deluxe II, a car with a ride so smooth that a mohel (played by John Belushi) performs a bris at 40 mph…..

  16. avatar
    jamese777 June 27, 2010 at 7:34 pm #

    James: (12) No witness with any personal information has come forward to confirm he was born in Honolulu;This is a big one. No credible witness has ever come forward. No doc, nurse or staff work. The lady who gave birth to twins does remember seeing Stanely or baby Obama even though that should be right there. The lady’s husband was apparently a doctor but knew nothing about Obama’s birth that day. Ordinarly I would think someone would remember nonfamous Joe Blow. But someone would remember a black baby named Barack Hussein Obama being born who has become the 44th POTUS.Score: 80

    Well there is the article quoting the lady in Buffalo, New York who later went on to become one of Obama’s school teachers who named Dr. Rodney T. West as Obama’s birth doctor. The reason that the lady remembered the event is that Dr. West had said that something unusual had happened that week (first week of August, 1961). He had delivered a baby to somone named “Stanley” and the father was the first black student at the University of Hawaii. Dr. West had also remembered the child’s unusual name.
    The original newspaper article was entitled “Teacher From Kenmore Recalls Obama was a Focused Student”. It appeared in the Buffalo News on January 20, 2009.
    snopes.com has an article on Obama’s COLB that quotes from the above article.

  17. avatar
    misha June 27, 2010 at 9:15 pm #

    jamese777: Well there is the article quoting the lady in Buffalo, New York who later went on to become one of Obama’s school teachers who named Dr. Rodney T. West as Obama’s birth doctor. The reason that the lady remembered the event is that Dr. West had said that something unusual had happened that week (first week of August, 1961). He had delivered a baby to somone named “Stanley” and the father was the first black student at the University of Hawaii. Dr. West had also remembered the child’s unusual name.The original newspaper article was entitled “Teacher From Kenmore Recalls Obama was a Focused Student”. It appeared in the Buffalo News on January 20, 2009.snopes.com has an article on Obama’s COLB that quotes from the above article.

    I read that article with interest, because I went to college in Buffalo. Of course, what she said is hearsay. But what is interesting to note, is that Denialists dismiss her story, but latch onto every other BS hearsay, uncritically.

    Just like when people here claim Linda Lingle is part of the conspiracy. I always respond that Lingle is Jewish, and was an ardent McCain supporter. Plus Lingle believed that McCain was better for Israel. If she could have found any dirt, the GOP would have used it with glee.

    It has zero effect.

  18. avatar
    misha June 27, 2010 at 9:24 pm #

    Ellid: Misha – suddenly I’m reminded of the old fake commercial on Saturday Night Live for the Royal Deluxe II, a car with a ride so smooth that a mohel (played by John Belushi) performs a bris at 40 mph…..

    I saw it when it was first broadcast; it had Gilda Radner as the mother. It was a send-up of the Ford LTD commercials. Their ride was sooo smooth, a diamond cutter could split a gem riding on the highway.

    Do you know why so many urologists are Jewish? They get good tips.

  19. avatar
    SluggoJD June 27, 2010 at 11:43 pm #

    LOLOL

  20. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- June 27, 2010 at 11:54 pm #

    I’d make a link to Rick’s Reynolds Wrap Thinking Cap but its just too easy of a joke.

  21. avatar
    misha June 28, 2010 at 12:31 am #

    The Sheriff’s A Ni-: I’d make a link to Rick’s Reynolds Wrap Thinking Cap but its just too easy of a joke.

    You mean, like this?

  22. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 28, 2010 at 8:56 am #

    misha: You mean, like this?

    I always liked this one better.

    Its a conspiracy!

  23. avatar
    misha June 28, 2010 at 9:06 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I always liked this one better.Its a conspiracy!

    Yeah, but does he have a cat wrapped in tinfoil?

  24. avatar
    Bob Ross June 28, 2010 at 9:36 am #

    misha:
    Yeah, but does he have a cat wrapped in tinfoil?

    who knows what else could be hiding under that cap.

  25. avatar
    Jax June 28, 2010 at 1:04 pm #

    Belushi wasn’t in that one. It was just some random guy playing the mohel. Akroyd played the announcer and Radner played the mom, though.

  26. avatar
    Majority Will June 28, 2010 at 1:48 pm #

    Jax: Belushi wasn’t in that one.It was just some random guy playing the mohel. Akroyd played the announcer and Radner played the mom, though.

    And Garrett Morris was the driver.

    Season 3, Episode 1: Steve Martin/Jackson Browne (Original Air Date: 24 September 1977)
    The host for the episode is Steve Martin (his third appearance), and the musical guest is Jackson Browne. The skits for this episode are as follows: Burt Lance, President Carter’s budget management director, pitches the National Express charge card after being asked to resign. During his opening monologue, Steve Martin promotes his new album and confesses that his cat has been embezzling from him. An ad introduces a watch so complex that it requires two people to operate it. The wild and crazy Festrunk brothers try to pick up two girls in their apartment rec room. A defense attorney berates a rape victim on the witness stand, then chuckles about it afterward. A great moment in rock history is commemorated: Roy Orbison standing completely still while singing in sunglasses. An ad promotes the Royale Deluxe II, a sedan that rides smoothly enough for a rabbi to perform a circumcision in the back seat at 40mph. Jackson Browne performs “Runnin’ on Empty” and “The Pretender”.

    http://www.addic7ed.com/imdb/imdb.php?mid=0072562

  27. avatar
    Majority Will June 28, 2010 at 1:58 pm #

    Jax: Belushi wasn’t in that one. It was just some random guy playing the mohel. Akroyd played the announcer and Radner played the mom, though.

    “Royal Deluxe II”

    And here is the video link of this SNL skit courtesy of IMDB and Hulu.

    http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi3907977241/

  28. avatar
    misha June 28, 2010 at 4:29 pm #

    Majority Will: “Royal Deluxe II”And here is the video link of this SNL skit courtesy of IMDB and Hulu.http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi3907977241/

    Thanks for the link. I saw it when first broadcast. They were doing a send-up of the Ford LTD commercial. Their ride was so smooth, a diamond cutter could split a gem at 40.

    An American woman is in Israel, and hears that wallets are a great souvenir. She goes to a shop, and the clerk shows a wallet, and says it is 1,000 shekels. He shows her a second, and says it is 2,000 shekels. He shows a third, and says it is 3,000 shekels. He finally shows a fourth, and says it is 10,000 shekels.

    She asks, “what are the differences?” The clerk says, “the one for 1,000 is made of cowhide. The one for 2,000 is made of calfskin, and the one for 3,000 is made of lambskin.”

    She then asks, “what is the one for 10,000 made from, that makes it so expensive?”

    The clerk says, “the wallet that costs 10,000 shekels is made from foreskins. When you rub it, it turns into a suitcase.”

  29. avatar
    Majority Will June 28, 2010 at 5:32 pm #

    misha:
    Thanks for the link. I saw it when first broadcast. They were doing a send-up of the Ford LTD commercial. Their ride was so smooth, a diamond cutter could split a gem at 40.An American woman is in Israel, and hears that wallets are a great souvenir. She goes to a shop, and the clerk shows a wallet, and says it is 1,000 shekels. He shows her a second, and says it is 2,000 shekels. He shows a third, and says it is 3,000 shekels. He finally shows a fourth, and says it is 10,000 shekels.She asks, “what are the differences?” The clerk says, “the one for 1,000 is made of cowhide. The one for 2,000 is made of calfskin, and the one for 3,000 is made of lambskin.”She then asks, “what is the one for 10,000 made from, that makes it so expensive?”The clerk says, “the wallet that costs 10,000 shekels is made from foreskins. When you rub it, it turns into a suitcase.”

    ROFL!