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Birther math (part 4)

Here we continue the analysis of a A Catalog of Evidence – Concerned Americans Have Good Reason to Doubt that Putative President Obama Was Born in Hawaii by attorney Mario Apuzzo. We’re adding up the value of the items in his catalog picking up from Birther math Part 3.

So far our total is zero. Parts 1 and 2 summed a compendium of non-specific statements from people who had no reason to know what Apuzzo would lead us to think they said. Part 3 covered primarily innuendo based on the lack of evidence. Nothing thing he has presented so far would be admissible as evidence in court, since at best it is hearsay, and at worst outright misrepresentation. Apuzzo continues to rely on the tabloid web site WorldNetDaily for his research.

Let’s move on to item 16.

(16) Obama’s application to the Franciscus Assisi Primary School in Indonesia states he was an Indonesian citizen;

This is probably the closest thing to evidence the birthers have. At least it is a document that describes Obama’s “nationality” (I think the better translation) as Indonesian. However, the information comes from an unspecified source (probably Obama’s step father) with unspecified documentation. The reason, however, that I will give it a zero is that such citizenship/nationality is contrary to Indonesian law as discussed by an article by me on this subject. In no wise would such citizenship, should it have happened, effect Obama’s presidential eligibility (US Supreme Court, Perkins v Elg).

Score: 0.

(17) Obama has only produced for public viewing a 2008 computer image of an alleged computer generated June 6, 2007 Certification of Live Birth (COLB) which contains no independently verifiable information to corroborate his alleged birth in Honolulu as would be found on a Certificate of Live Birth (Birth Certificate)….

Since the document produced by candidate Obama is the legal form of a birth certificate from Hawaii, I see no reason to call it defective. The reason we register  births in this country is so that one does not have to go back nearly 50 years to re-investigate the facts of birth. The COLB is prima facie evidence in any court in the country that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961. The rest of Apuzzo’s entry is an attempt to muddy the water and obscure these facts.

Score: 0. (this one deserves a minus score)

(18) Various experts on documents and digital images state the digital image of the alleged 2007 computer generated Certification of Live Birth (COLB)…  is a forgery.

Mr. Apuzzo fails to give the names of these “various experts.” No one gives the names of these “experts.” Certainly the complaint without this important information, cannot be considered to have any value, being the vaguest form of hearsay.

Score: 0.

(19) Obama refuses to produce a contemporaneous birth certificate created in 1961. This is the most important piece of evidence which would conclusively prove that he was born in Hawaii because it would tell us exactly where in Hawaii Obama was born (e.g. in which hospital) and who was present at the moment of his birth in that exact location (e.g. the delivering doctor or a midwife)….

While the State of Hawaii no longer issues the old form, we might generously concede that one might be obtained somehow. However, the information requested is irrelevant to a question of presidential eligibility. The reason we register  births in this country is so that one does not have to go back nearly 50 years to re-investigate the facts of birth.

Score: 0.

(20) Hawaii Health Department has publicly released incomplete and inconclusive information which Obama supporters claim shows that Obama was born in Honolulu. During the 2008 election, Hawaii’s Director of Health, Chiyome Fukino, said:

Exactly what is inconclusive about:

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American.

Again Apuzzo attempts to muddy the water with a long bit of text trying to divert attention from the essential facts.

Score: 0.

Apuzzo continues to display disdain for the intelligence of his readers (perhaps a reasonable position). Stay tuned for Part 5. Perhaps we will see something next that hasn’t been debunked a year or more ago.

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24 Responses to Birther math (part 4)

  1. avatar
    James June 26, 2010 at 6:46 pm #

    **Obama Bombshell** Blue Hawaii: Health Department falsified Obama’s birth records!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc5JE0JAqlk

  2. avatar
    JoZeppy June 26, 2010 at 7:02 pm #

    James: **Obama Bombshell** Blue Hawaii: Health Department falsified Obama’s birth records!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc5JE0JAqlk

    Poor, poor, James….you are so desparate to latch on to anything. Sure, hitch your wagon to an already discredited nutter. This is even more pathetic than his first attempt to discredit the COLB. But then again, you fell for that poorly editied splice job of Obama speech, so why am I not suprised.

    It’s sad, really.

  3. avatar
    Scientist June 26, 2010 at 7:08 pm #

    I can’t wait for the birthers to tell us that it’s Obama’s fault the US lost to Ghana (even though they lost to Ghana in 2006).

  4. avatar
    BatGuano June 26, 2010 at 7:55 pm #

    James: **Obama Bombshell** Blue Hawaii:

    ouch.

    it’s one thing to place all your money to win on a long-shot horse.

    it’s quite another thing to place all your money to win on a long-shot horse……. that died in the race before.

  5. avatar
    BatGuano June 26, 2010 at 8:04 pm #

    Scientist: I can’t wait for the birthers to tell us that it’s Obama’s fault the US lost to Ghana (even though they lost to Ghana in 2006).

    football= NFL = american president.

  6. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 26, 2010 at 8:05 pm #

    BatGuano:
    ouch.
    it’s one thing to place all your money to win on a long-shot horse.it’s quite another thing to place all your money to win on a long-shot horse……. that died in the race before.

    Haha true to form James is. We discussed this earlier and then James jumps on this

  7. avatar
    misha June 26, 2010 at 8:54 pm #

    Scientist: I can’t wait for the birthers to tell us that it’s Obama’s fault the US lost to Ghana (even though they lost to Ghana in 2006).

    But it’s true. It’s part of the Obama/Kenya/East Africa/West Africa conspiracy. Obama’s Chicago thugs got the American team to throw the game.

    Do I have to spell out everything for you?

  8. avatar
    AnotherBird June 26, 2010 at 9:39 pm #

    The only proof of citizenship is an official birth certificate or nationalization certificate. School records or registration papers are not proof as schools don’t decide a person’s citizenship.

    Birth certificates and nationalization certificates are checked for authenticity against the records held by the departments responsible for approving and maintaining those documents. The state of Hawaii confirming that they have the presidents birth certificate is proof of Obama obtained his citizenship by birth. A person can get a new copy of their birth records every 5 years, and this will not change the fact that the state government still has their original birth records.

  9. avatar
    nc1 June 26, 2010 at 10:43 pm #

    Dr Conspiracy,

    Do you have an explanation for different date format shown on Obama’s COLB:
    http://theobamafile.com/_images/COLBNotAccepted.jpg

    At the bottom of the page there is no space between the date and the year on Obama’s COLB. All three documents show the same revision number:
    OHSM 1.1 (Rev. 11/01) LASER

    In addition, both folding creases are easily visible in other documents – not so in Obama’s case. On Decosta COLB Onaka’s signature is easily visible even though it was applied on the back page.

  10. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- June 26, 2010 at 10:46 pm #

    nc1: Do you have an explanation for different date format shown on Obama’s COLB:

    Do you have an explanation for arguing via technicality? Do you have an explanation for why every official document ever printed must look exactly the same?

    Do you have an explanation for why you’re still arguing this after having yet to win a court case?

  11. avatar
    nc1 June 26, 2010 at 10:55 pm #

    The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Do you have an explanation for arguing via technicality? Do you have an explanation for why every official document ever printed must look exactly the same?Do you have an explanation for why you’re still arguing this after having yet to win a court case?

    It looks like an anomaly on Obama’s COLB. Could be an indication of a typo / forgery.

    No court has examined the actual evidence of Obama’s birthplace.

  12. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2010 at 12:21 am #

    nc1: No court has examined the actual evidence of Obama’s birthplace.

    And why, pray tell, do you think that is?

    [Doc hands rope to nc1 and waits.]

  13. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2010 at 12:26 am #

    nc1: Do you have an explanation for different date format shown on Obama’s COLB

    Yes. Authentic Hawaiian COLB’s have that characteristic. It means that either Obama’s form is authentic or the forger was incredibly accurate at not only copying the authentic form, but also its mistakes.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/file0015-cropped-300×292.jpg (from the Ron Polarik collection).

  14. avatar
    Ellid June 27, 2010 at 12:29 am #

    Hi, NC! Why are you belaboring this point? Weren’t the explanations you got on the Independent last year good enough? And why do you think the answers will change?

  15. avatar
    nc1 June 27, 2010 at 2:31 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Yes. Authentic Hawaiian COLB’s have that characteristic. It means that either Obama’s form is authentic or the forger was incredibly accurate at not only copying the authentic form, but also its mistakes.http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/file0015-cropped-300—292.jpg (from the Ron Polarik collection).

    1. I do find it strange that some Hawaii COLBs have two slightly different date formats shown on the document while other COLBs show the same date format, while both groups of documents have the same revision number. Perhaps you are aware of a comment made by Okubo or somebody else explaining this.

    2. So far, of all Hawaii COLBs circulated on the web only Obama’s image does not clearly show the State Seal and both folding creases. Perhaps you can post a link to another COLB that is similar to Obama’s?

  16. avatar
    misha June 27, 2010 at 2:35 am #

    nc1: 2. So far, of all Hawaii COLBs circulated on the web only Obama’s image does not clearly show the State Seal and both folding creases. Perhaps you can post a link to another COLB that is similar to Obama’s?

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

  17. avatar
    SluggoJD June 27, 2010 at 5:10 am #

    nc1:
    1. I do find it strange that some Hawaii COLBs have two slightly different date formats shown on the document while other COLBs show the same date format, while both groups of documents have the same revision number.Perhaps you are aware of a comment made by Okubo or somebody else explaining this.
    2. So far, of all Hawaii COLBs circulated on the web only Obama’s image does not clearly showthe State Seal and both foldingcreases. Perhaps you can post a link to another COLB that is similar to Obama’s?

    There are two types of people in this world:

    Folks who bang their head against a brick wall, over and over, and complain that their head hurts, and then they bang their head against the wall some more, and complain that their headache won’t go away, and they just keep banging that head against the wall, and complain about pain.

    And folks who bang their head against a wall, get a headache, and realize that banging their head against a wall causes pain.

    I wonder what group you belong to. Hmmm.

  18. avatar
    euphgeek June 27, 2010 at 9:17 am #

    nc1, perhaps you could point to any evidence you have that does not fall under the category of speculation or hearsay that Obama was not born in Hawaii.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2010 at 12:47 pm #

    nc1: I do find it strange that some Hawaii COLBs have two slightly different date formats shown on the document while other COLBs show the same date format, while both groups of documents have the same revision number. Perhaps you are aware of a comment made by Okubo or somebody else explaining this.

    To someone like me who writes software for a living, this is not in the least bit strange. Someone noticed the extra space and complained and the programmer fixed it. It’s not a revision, just a bug fix. Talking about birth certificates, I’ve seen a dozen iterations trying to get something exactly right. You have it right and the someone with a really long names comes along and it won’t fit the space and you have to change the font size or you’ve made some assumption of what’s in the historical database and it’s not true 100% of the time. This sort of thing happens all the time.

  20. avatar
    Rick A Hyatt June 27, 2010 at 7:39 pm #

    Oh, forgot to mention, Wolf is white, and Obama’s true mother a black Indonesian, or so was told.

  21. avatar
    G June 28, 2010 at 12:32 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: To someone like me who writes software for a living, this is not in the least bit strange. Someone noticed the extra space and complained and the programmer fixed it. It’s not a revision, just a bug fix. Talking about birth certificates, I’ve seen a dozen iterations trying to get something exactly right. You have it right and the someone with a really long names comes along and it won’t fit the space and you have to change the font size or you’ve made some assumption of what’s in the historical database and it’s not true 100% of the time. This sort of thing happens all the time.

    As another person with a career background in IT, I concur completely.

  22. avatar
    ellid June 28, 2010 at 10:10 am #

    Rick A Hyatt: Oh, forgot to mention, Wolf is white, and Obama’s true mother a black Indonesian, or so was told.

    Someone needs to take their anti-psychotics today, it seems.

  23. avatar
    Majority Will June 28, 2010 at 11:40 am #

    ellid:
    Someone needs to take their anti-psychotics today, it seems.

    Or get the dosage increased.

  24. avatar
    Bovril June 28, 2010 at 12:50 pm #

    G: Dr. Conspiracy: To someone like me who writes software for a living, this is not in the least bit strange. Someone noticed the extra space and complained and the programmer fixed it. It’s not a revision, just a bug fix. Talking about birth certificates, I’ve seen a dozen iterations trying to get something exactly right. You have it right and the someone with a really long names comes along and it won’t fit the space and you have to change the font size or you’ve made some assumption of what’s in the historical database and it’s not true 100% of the time. This sort of thing happens all the time.
    As another person with a career background in IT, I concur completely.

    I might add on many occasions you end up having to change the fields and the underlying database schema as you find out that bounds checking doesn’t and buffer overflows do……..(techie IS geek humour)