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Birther math (part 6)

Here we continue the analysis of a A Catalog of Evidence – Concerned Americans Have Good Reason to Doubt that Putative President Obama Was Born in Hawaii by attorney Mario Apuzzo. We’re adding up the value of the items in his catalog picking up from Birther math Part 5.

This is the next to last (HOORAY!) installment of “Birther math.” So far in parts 1-5, we have seen an attorney do what attorneys are trained to do: create doubt. Unfortunately the doubt is build on unsupported claims, outright false statements, and clever tricks of rhetoric that my High School English teacher taught us were wrong to use. So far, it’s nothing that hasn’t been hashed and rehashed on the Internet and been debunked on this web site, the mainstream press and fact checking and debunking web sites. The score entering part 6 remains a goose egg.

Let’s move on to item 26.

(26) Nancy Pelosi, in her capacity as the Chair of the Democratic National Convention, signed an affidavit to 50 states certifying that Obama was nominated for the Office of President. In many of the 50 states, Pelosi did not address the issue of Obama’s Article II “natural born citizenship” qualifications….

This is a good example of misdirection. The fact is that Nancy Peolsi signed a statement under oath that Barack Obama was eligible and sent it to one or more states (the copy for Hawaii is on this web site). Apuzzo is asking his readers to believe that Obama is not eligible because Pelosi didn’t swear it 50 times.

Score: 0.

(27) Attorney Phil Berg has filed with a Federal Court an affidavit in which an investigator recounts how he went to the hospital in Mombasa, Kenya and was told by officials there that Obama was born in that hospital;

And like Apuzzo’s document expert, the investigator has no name. Apuzzo would be laughed out of court if he tried to slip in this hearsay of an anonymous person. He might as well say that “a dog that I have never seen before or since ate my evidence.” And hey, why would they tell the investigator this if Berg’s other claim that the birth certificate was “TOP SECRET” is true. Berg can’t have it both ways. Apuzzo is impeached by his own source!

Score: 0.

(28) [Summary by Dr. Conspiracy: Twin children named Nordyke were born the day after infant Obama. The date filed on their birth certificate (available on the Internet) is later than the date filed on the Obama COLB, but the Obama certificate has a slightly (3) higher state file number. One would expect the numbers to increase on order of the date of filing.]

We’ve spent quite some time on the Obama Conspiracy Theories blog discussing this question. Several possible scenarios have been offered. Apuzzo spins some fantasy history of what went on in the hospital — mothers hanging out in imaginary lounges, something else lawyers are good at, creating alternate versions of things. The fact remains that the Obama and Nordyke certificate numbers are very close (10638 and 10641) and the births were very close, August 4 and August 5. The forms should have been relatively close together in batches and they may have been physically fed into the number stamping machine in most any order. Certainly there is no fraud scenario indicated by the slightly out of order state file numbers.

Score: 0.

(29) … The Minister for Lands, Mr. Orengo [stated in a parliamentary debate that] …”If America was living in a situation where they feared ethnicity and did not see itself as a multiparty state or nation, how could a young man born here in Kenya, who is not even a native American, become the President of America? …”

Since Mr. Orengo has no reason to know where President Obama was born (assuming he is correctly interpreted as saying Obama was born in Kenya), his remark carries no evidentiary weight. The Minister of Lands oversees property and deeds in Kenya, not birth registration.

Score: 0.

(30) Another Kenyan Minister on April 14, 2010, made a statement about Obama’s origins and says that Obama should repatriate himself to Kenya. “What commitment did they make about compensation and more importantly, the biggest artefact [sic] in the USA today that belongs to this country is one Barrack Obama. How does he intend to repatriate himself or part of the money that is realized from all the royalties that he is attracting across the whole world?”

Somewhat confusing, this statement again is put forward with no explanation of how the person who made it has knowledge of where Barack Obama was born. The testimony of someone without specific knowledge of what they are saying carries no weight.

Score: 0.

Same old stale stuff, and we’re reaching the end. Stay tuned for Part 7.

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33 Responses to Birther math (part 6)

  1. avatar
    James June 26, 2010 at 11:20 pm #

    Of course, with all the evidence, you consider the totality of the evidence that’s out there. Based on the totality of the evidence, Mario’s Catalog of Evidence scores nearly a 100% that there is a severe question to Obama’s birth in Hawaii. While much of the evidence is questionable on whether it could be used in court, it is more than enough to win in the court of public opinion. In any event, DISCOVERY will the piece of evidence that will spell the end of Obama. Of course, Obama has privacy rights behind him which in the only thing that is keeping him in the White House.

    So far, I have seen little or no evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    It appears that one can make the following based on the evidence provided by Mario….

    Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Hawaii as a matter of record.

    But as a matter of coorborated fact, Barack Hussein Obama was NOT born in Hawaii.

  2. avatar
    Majority Will June 26, 2010 at 11:33 pm #

    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH News Release
    GOVERNOR

    CHIYOME LEINAALA FUKINO M.D. DIRECTOR Phone: (808) xxx-xxxx Fax: (808) xxx-xxxx

    For Immediate Release: July 27, 2009 09-063

    STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai’i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

    ###

    That’s good enough for all but the criminally insane.

  3. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 26, 2010 at 11:37 pm #

    James: Of course, with all the evidence, you consider the totality of the evidence that’s out there.Based on the totality of the evidence, Mario’s Catalog of Evidence scores nearly a 100% that there is a severe question to Obama’s birth in Hawaii.While much of the evidence is questionable on whether it could be used in court, it is more than enough to win in the court of public opinion.In any event, DISCOVERY will the piece of evidence that will spell the end of Obama.Of course, Obama has privacy rights behind him which in the only thing that is keeping him in the White House.So far,I have seen little or no evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.It appears that one can make the following based on the evidence provided by Mario….Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Hawaii as a matter of record.But as a matter of coorborated fact, Barack Hussein Obama was NOT born in Hawaii.

    Nice try James but everything Apuzzo has ever presented never has amounted to “evidence”. Apuzzo is a coward and idiot who continues pushing the same tired old conspiracy theories as if they are fact. He doesn’t even have the courage to come here anymore and back up what he says. The Court of Public Opinion thinks you and your ilk are batshit insane James

  4. avatar
    Dave June 26, 2010 at 11:38 pm #

    James: While much of the evidence is questionable on whether it could be used in court, it is more than enough to win in the court of public opinion.In any event, DISCOVERY will the piece of evidence that will spell the end of Obama.

    When do you expect this win in the court of public opinion? And are you sure the court of public opinion can order discovery?

  5. avatar
    misha June 26, 2010 at 11:42 pm #

    Majority Will: That’s good enough for all but the criminally insane.

    Which is what Manning and his coterie are.

    Manning has a criminal record as long as his arm, both felonies and misdemeanors.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_David_Manning

  6. avatar
    Whatever4 June 26, 2010 at 11:48 pm #

    (26)… The fact is that Nancy Peolsi signed a statement under oath that Barack Obama was eligible and sent it to one or more states (the copy for Hawaii is on this web site). Apuzzo is asking his readers to believe that Obama is not eligible because Pelosi didn’t swear it 50 times.

    NBC once had a nifty collection of requirements for some of the states, but the images no longer show. http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/pelosi-the-dnc-and-the-story-of-the-two-letters-of-certification/ Each state had different requirements so basing anything on a document one state had or didn’t have is insufficient. Some states have the party attest to the qualifications, some have the candidate attest, some both. In every state, SOMEONE swore that Obama was eligible.

  7. avatar
    Majority Will June 26, 2010 at 11:52 pm #

    misha:
    Which is what Manning and his coterie are.Manning has a criminal record as long as his arm, both felonies and misdemeanors.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_David_Manning

    Insanity like this?

    “It is common knowledge that African men, coming from the continent of Africa—especially for the first time—do diligently seek out white women to have sexual intercourse with. Generally the most noble of white society choose not to intercourse sexually with these men. So it’s usually the trashier ones who make their determinations that they’re going to have sex.”
    - James David Manning

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2010 at 12:17 am #

    James: While much of the evidence is questionable on whether it could be used in court, it is more than enough to win in the court of public opinion.

    The rules of evidence are there to help filter out the bullshit.

  9. avatar
    AnotherBird June 27, 2010 at 12:20 am #

    James: Of course, with all the evidence, you consider the totality of the evidence that’s out there.Based on the totality of the evidence, Mario’s Catalog of Evidence scores nearly a 100% that there is a severe question to Obama’s birth in Hawaii.

    Mario’s Catalog? Is this something that someone pays for as part of a scam. I don’t know what this 100% is all about. However, as evidence that Obama is president is proof that he is a natural born citizen. So, put your money back in your pocket or invest it.

  10. avatar
    misha June 27, 2010 at 2:26 am #

    Majority Will:>“It is common knowledge that African men, coming from the continent of Africa—especially for the first time—do diligently seek out white women to have sexual intercourse with. Generally the most noble of white society choose not to intercourse sexually with these men. So it’s usually the trashier ones who make their determinations that they’re going to have sex.”- James David Manning

    When I married my wife, who is from China, my mother literally said “how come none of them have been Jewish?” (bada-bing)

  11. avatar
    Greg June 27, 2010 at 6:28 am #

    James: While much of the evidence is questionable on whether it could be used in court, it is more than enough to win in the court of public opinion.

    Which proves HL Mencken’s maxim:

    No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.

    So far, I have seen little or no evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Because you refuse to look.

    But as a matter of coorborated fact, Barack Hussein Obama was NOT born in Hawaii.

    Evidence with zero credibility doesn’t corroborate a piece of evidence with zero credibility.

  12. avatar
    Hektor June 27, 2010 at 8:53 am #

    Oh but it is easy to say that there is no evidence that the President was born in Hawaii. Any document that corroborates a Hawaiian birth has simply been forged. Any testimony by any reputable source that says so is simply in on the conspiracy. Thus only hearsay and conjecture become the only kinds of evidence allowed. And it’s pretty poor excuses for either in both categories.

  13. avatar
    katahdin June 27, 2010 at 9:04 am #

    No birther has ever come up with anything that successfully counteracts the simple fact of a valid birth certificate on file with the State of Hawaii.

  14. avatar
    Keith June 28, 2010 at 8:15 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The fact remains that the Obama and Nordyke certificate numbers are very close (10638 and 10641) and the births were very close, August 4 and August 5. The forms should have been relatively close together in batches and they may have been physically fed into the number stamping machine in most any order. Certainly there is no fraud scenario indicated by the slightly out of order state file numbers.

    Personally, I doubt it was a ‘stamping machine’. More likely a preprinted multi-part form with pre-printed numbers. In my IT days at a municipal government (early 70′s) these things were used for EVERYTHING from Parking Tickets to Inspection Notices to employee absence reports (for a time). The end users had to sign for each pad and account for each number in controlled documents like Parking Tickets or whatever.

    If, for example, the Birth Certificate pads had 20 forms each, then 10620 to 10639 could have been in one pad and 10640 to 10659 in another and both could have been validly available for use at the same time. The sequence is then totally dependent on the pad that is picked up, perhaps the pads were assigned to different doctors or duty nurses or perhaps they were just there on the maternity registration desk.

    ON the 4th ‘they’ picked up the almost new pad and used it for Obama, but the next day they picked up the almost finished pad and used it for the Nordyke Twins. I can’t see anything mysterious in this at all.

  15. avatar
    sfjeff June 28, 2010 at 12:33 pm #

    “it is more than enough to win in the court of public opinion.”

    President Obama already won in the court of public opinion- it was called the general election.

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 28, 2010 at 1:13 pm #

    Keith: Personally, I doubt it was a stamping machine’. More likely a preprinted multi-part form with pre-printed numbers.

    Janice Okubo, spokesperson for the Department of Health, has confirmed that the records were numbered centrally at the time they were filed. I suggested that a “machine” is used because of the uneven registration (vertical alignment) of the digits on the sample we’ve seen, and because this is how other vital statistics agencies I know about used to do it. Nowadays, numbering is all done in computer software since nearly all births (95% in 2005) registered today are done electronically.

  17. avatar
    Keith June 28, 2010 at 5:53 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Janice Okubo, spokesperson for the Department of Health, has confirmed that the records were numbered centrally at the time they were filed. I suggested that a “machine” is used because …

    OK. My hypothesis is shot down then.

  18. avatar
    Plutodog June 29, 2010 at 4:07 am #

    Hey Doc C — excellent work! As to #30, I did some looking and it is really quite funny — and frivolous. From a Kenyan National Assembly Report of a hearing of some sort on Kenya’s efforts to retrieve artifacts from around the world, came Apuzzo’s bogus “proof” #30:

    Here’s an excerpt. Link at the end:

    “Mr. ole Ntimama: Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I have said in my answer, we are trying our best and the good team from my Ministry has been visiting some of these countries to try and identify all the artefacts that are there and negotiate their return. So, we are not asleep but doing our best.

    Dr. Khalwale: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister has told us that the office of the then Senator Obama gave him a lot of assistance. That is very good to hear. Could he tell us what commitment the same office made by way of compensation to this country because those artefacts in those museums have been attracting visitors who were paying to view them? What commitment did they make about compensation and more importantly, the biggest artefact in the USA today that belongs to this country is one Barrack Obama. How does he intend to repatriate himself or part of the money that is realized from all the royalties that he is attracting across the whole world?

    The Assistant Minister for Roads (Dr. Machage): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Member right to refer to the President of the USA as an artefact?

    Mr. Speaker: Dr. Khalwale, you are out of order! The President of the USA cannot be classified as an artefact. You should withdraw and apologize.

    Dr. Khalwale: Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I withdraw and apologize, may I clarify that this was not mischief. In one of the museums in USA—

    Mr. Speaker: Order, Dr. Khalwale! I have given directions. If you wish, you can quote to the House, perhaps a medical dictionary, but I am certain that the English dictionary will not define the word “artifact” as including any human being, let alone President Obama.

    Dr. Khalwale: Mr. Speaker, Sir, most obliged. My withdrawal and apology still stands but I just wanted to clarify that the artefacts that I am referring to indeed exist. It was not the hon. Obama. If you go to the museum in Washington, there is a huge statue not just of Obama alone but also his wife and all the previous presidents of the USA.

    Mr. Speaker: Order, Dr. Khalwale! If you are referring to a statue then you should have said so but that is not what you said. Please, Dr. Khalwale, do not be vexatious and neither should you be frivolous. As a medical practitioner, I expect much more out of you. Even as a Member of Parliament. And you must stop there, I am afraid! I rule you out of order.

    Dr. Khalwale: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the matter rests but then it brings me to the issue of compensation. What commitment has the USA made in the need to compensate this country for all the money that they have earned over the years from our artefacts in their museums?

    Mr. ole Ntimama: Mr. Speaker, Sir, do not forget that we are dealing with independent nations just like Kenya. Do not also forget that we were colonies of other people for a long time and they had the opportunity to collect those artefacts from private people and other institutions and take them to their land. What we are trying to do now is to negotiate and bring those artefacts back. We are not talking of compensation yet because that is also a complicated affair which has to be calculated in many ways.

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you just for one thing: controlling frivolity because some people talk so freely in this Parliament that they do not consider that some of the things they talk about are frivolous.”

    from http://www.scribd.com/doc/30297501/Member-of-Kenyan-National-Assembly-asks-When-is-Obama-Going-to-Repatriate-Himself-to-Kenya-See-pg-8

  19. avatar
    Passerby June 29, 2010 at 10:57 am #

    James: Of course, with all the evidence, you consider the totality of the evidence that’s out there. Based on the totality of the evidence, Mario’s Catalog of Evidence scores nearly a 100% that there is a severe question to Obama’s birth in Hawaii. While much of the evidence is questionable on whether it could be used in court, it is more than enough to win in the court of public opinion.

    Wait. What you’re saying here is that it doesn’t matter if any of it is true or not. As long as you can raise a sufficient volume of questions that it would raise doubt in people’s minds (valid or not), that’s what’s important. Is that about right? Because it sounds like that’s what you’re saying.

  20. avatar
    Black Lion June 29, 2010 at 12:18 pm #

    Interesting article on the birthers…

    “Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) will headline September’s Taking America Back conference, an event that includes notable “birthers” Jerome Corsi, Aaron Klein, Joseph Farah and Alan Keyes. In fact, of the 15 speakers, at least nine have expressed doubt that President Obama was born in the United States.

    The event, to be held in Miami from Sept. 16 to 18, offers attendees a choice between “the world of standards and morality, self-government and accountability to God or the world of tyranny and ever-changing moral codes enforced by government.” The 15 speakers include a who’s who of the “birther” movement, and many have ties to the conservative website WorldNetDaily, which is the event’s sponsor. That site’s managing editor and a conference speaker, David Kupelian, penned the piece, “Why I care about Obama eligibility issue.”

    Kupelian’s boss, WND founder Farah, is also outspoken in his belief that Obama might not have been born in the United States. Farah has been instrumental in plugging Corsi’s book, Obama Nation, which questions the legality of an Obama presidency.

    Also speaking alongside Bachmann is former Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.), who shares similar views with birthers, having once said, “Send Obama back to Kenya.”

    http://washingtonindependent.com/90339/bachmann-to-lead-birther-filled-lineup-at-taking-america-back-conference

  21. avatar
    Majority Will June 29, 2010 at 1:43 pm #

    Black Lion: Interesting article on the birthers…“Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) will headline September’s Taking America Back conference, an event that includes notable “birthers” Jerome Corsi, Aaron Klein, Joseph Farah and Alan Keyes. In fact, of the 15 speakers, at least nine have expressed doubt that President Obama was born in the United States.The event, to be held in Miami from Sept. 16 to 18, offers attendees a choice between “the world of standards and morality, self-government and accountability to God or the world of tyranny and ever-changing moral codes enforced by government.” The 15 speakers include a who’s who of the “birther” movement, and many have ties to the conservative website WorldNetDaily, which is the event’s sponsor. That site’s managing editor and a conference speaker, David Kupelian, penned the piece, “Why I care about Obama eligibility issue.”Kupelian’s boss, WND founder Farah, is also outspoken in his belief that Obama might not have been born in the United States. Farah has been instrumental in plugging Corsi’s book, Obama Nation, which questions the legality of an Obama presidency.Also speaking alongside Bachmann is former Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.), who shares similar views with birthers, having once said, “Send Obama back to Kenya.”http://washingtonindependent.com/90339/bachmann-to-lead-birther-filled-lineup-at-taking-america-back-conference

    It must be a typo. It should read, “Taking America Aback.”

  22. avatar
    Black Lion June 29, 2010 at 1:59 pm #

    Majority Will: It must be a typo. It should read, “Taking America Aback.”

    Good one….Bachmann is a loon. I wonder when the people of MN are going to wise up and vote her out of office….

  23. avatar
    G June 29, 2010 at 2:29 pm #

    Passerby: Wait. What you’re saying here is that it doesn’t matter if any of it is true or not. As long as you can raise a sufficient volume of questions that it would raise doubt in people’s minds (valid or not), that’s what’s important. Is that about right? Because it sounds like that’s what you’re saying.

    That sure seems to be the whole Birther strategy in a nutshell.

  24. avatar
    notsure July 9, 2010 at 3:28 pm #

    I am about convinsed that Obama was born in Hawaii,but.one question.
    Why will he not release his birth certificate to the press?
    In his campaign,he promised, this administration would be OPEN!

  25. avatar
    misha July 9, 2010 at 3:50 pm #

    notsure: Why will he not release his birth certificate to the press?

    Excellent question, and I’m happy you brought this up. I found an authentic Kenya BC (Obama’s?) that addresses your exact concern.

    Thanks for posting.

  26. avatar
    sfjeff July 9, 2010 at 3:55 pm #

    “Why will he not release his birth certificate to the press?”

    He did, in 2008.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 9, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    notsure: I am about convinsed that Obama was born in Hawaii,but.one question.Why will he not release his birth certificate to the press?In his campaign,he promised, this administration would be OPEN!

    TROLL. You didn’t vote for him. I love how all the birthers now say “I’m about convinced but there’s one question”

  28. avatar
    Majority Will July 9, 2010 at 4:07 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    TROLL.You didn’t vote for him.I love how all the birthers now say “I’m about convinced but there’s one question”

    I wonder if the good Doc can tell us how many drive-by birthers are the same poster(s) but with different names?

  29. avatar
    Majority Will July 9, 2010 at 4:12 pm #

    Transparency was a reference to policy and the administration and not personal information that’s NOAFBB.

  30. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 9, 2010 at 4:36 pm #

    Majority Will: I wonder if the good Doc can tell us how many drive-by birthers are the same poster(s) but with different names?

    You know I’m staring to think that too. Every day we have a new birther who comes in claims they’re not a birther that they only have “reasonable” questions.

  31. avatar
    Majority Will July 9, 2010 at 4:49 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    You know I’m staring to think that too.Every day we have a new birther who comes in claims they’re not a birther that they only have “reasonable” questions.

    I’ve seen birthers and a few fright wingers busted for this on other forums. They are coddling their fragile and painful dissonance by inventing a crowd of concerned people or just people with identical agendas. I saw one lonely poster congratulating and backing up a fellow birther when it was more than obvious it was the same person. Same misspellings. Same style. Same cliches. Same pathetic delusions as well.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 9, 2010 at 5:06 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross)</strong>: You know I’m staring to think that too. Every day we have a new birther who comes in claims they’re not a birther that they only have “reasonable” questions.

    I look at this from time to time and the drive by’s seem to be different people unless they are taking the trouble of using different IP addresses.

  33. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 9, 2010 at 5:08 pm #

    Majority Will: I’ve seen birthers and a few fright wingers busted for this on other forums. They are coddling their fragile and painful dissonance by inventing a crowd of concerned people or just people with identical agendas. I saw one lonely poster congratulating and backing up a fellow birther when it was more than obvious it was the same person. Same misspellings. Same style. Same cliches. Same pathetic delusions as well.

    Its the army of the schitzophrenics. Then there’s those like Sven who have MPD and create their own swelling of believers