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More from Tim Adams

This interesting email interview with Tim Adams was provided by one of the visitors here.

1. How do you know Obama has no long form birth certificate if nobody in your organization (elections) has access to vital records? Who makes that claim, you? While no one has direct access to birth records, we have the replies given us by the Hawaii Dept of Health which stated they have no certificate, which contradicts directly the answer Governor Lingle gave in her story about having the HHD go look to verify the record exists. Strange story, ” I sent someone and they say it’s there and of course we can’t show it.” Sounds believable huh?

2. You seem to be conflicted over whether Obama was born inside or outside Hawaii. Which is it? I’m not conflicted at all about my statements on Pres. Obama. Perhaps you confuse the idea of born in Kenya and not born in Hawaii. Pres. Obama possesses a COLB, which in 1961 wasn’t given to children born at hospital. Hence either he was born at home, which he has himself stated otherwise, or he was born outside the state. Once again, could have verified his claim at any time in the last three years, but no certificate.

3. Why did you wait so long?

I’ve said the same thing for the last three years, no one in the media paid any attention until now.

4. Why did you fist go on a White Supremacist radio show to make your announcement?

I’ll forego your obvious attempt to insult me, if TPC is white supremacist, then why do other ethnic based political groups get a free pass? I happened to be an observer at the CoCC national convention, and was asked by James Edwards to come on his show. My information of course caught their attention, but my conclusions, including the citizenship of Pres. Obama, and his legitimacy to hold office, are not very welcome to them. But, unlike the mainstream media, they at least were fair enough to give me a little airtime. That initial exposure allowed me to get the real conversation out into the national media, despite the “spin” of various media outlets and the wild YouTuber explosion of videos; most of which had nothing to do with what I was saying, but instead showed the depths to which this anti-government sentiment has entrenched itself in the far right.

So why do I go on TPC to make the announcement? Because they were the only media outlet that had ever asked me too. TPC had the additional benefit of allowing me to address the very people I wanted to engage in this dialogue, the anti-Washington, right-wing. Since the initial explosion and interest gave me the ear of a least a couple of million people, most of whom were from the right, I was able to get my answers out where they could hear someone who was on the scene during the election tell them what went on there. That there is no great conspiracy, that the government isn’t scheming to overthrow the country, and that instead of attacking our President, or vilifying the government, they could be working on reasonable answers to our nation’s problems. If you’ve seen my interview on FoxNews, then you’ve heard what I set out to say to the extreme right wing, the question was; “How do I get them to listen, and how do I get access to a media outlet large enough to get heard?”

I wasn’t shocked but I was disappointed by the media on several occasions the past couple of weeks. I knew talking to right wing people would paint me as well, (most likely) and it just about did. But, I am pushing for people to start talking again. We need to get back to talking with each other, even with the people we don’t agree with, even with folks we don’t like. If an entire segment of our population has been marginalized and poached by exploitive forces, can we really allow them to sit off, isolated from the rest of the political process? I have no happy illusions about the results of my attempts to get a national conversation going on citizenship, eligibility for public office, or race and politics, but we have to start somewhere. Perhaps a national referendum on who is allowed to hold high public office, the presuppositions of dual nationality, or family ties where one parent is not a U.S. citizen, versus the more “traditional” view of citizenship and loyalty and jus

t why we should or should not allow someone to run for and hold high public office is exactly the kind of cross the aisle, bi-partisan discussion we should be having right now.

With the national demographic shifting to ever greater diversity, and the reality of international families and families with mixed heritage becoming far more commonplace then in the past; we need to ask if we still want to restrict political participation solely on the nationality of someone’s birth parent. Is someone who has a parent who’s a U.S. citizen and a parent who is not a citizen somehow less loyal to America? Isn’t that what the strict constructionist’ interpretation used by the birthers says? Can we actually say to the child of a resident or immigrant parent, who is born here in America that their loyalty is suspect their entire lives?

I’m hoping for a published definition of Natural Born Citizenship by Congress, one that doesn’t exclude people on the outdated notion that because of “mixed blood” their loyalty is compromised.

Thanks for the questions.

Update! The Oh, for Goodness Sake blog has an almost encyclopedic article on Adams and his colorful history. Check it out.

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84 Responses to More from Tim Adams

  1. avatar
    richCares June 23, 2010 at 10:03 pm #

    1. Dept of Health statesd that they no longer issue “long forms”, is that your confusion.
    2. Obama’s COLB was issued in 2007, (not 1961). Where do you get you info, craker jacks?

  2. avatar
    racosta June 23, 2010 at 10:08 pm #

    the hero of birferstan is a total flake, who would have guessed. Good luck with your new hero birthers.

  3. avatar
    richCares June 23, 2010 at 10:13 pm #

    doc, please forward these answers to Hawaii Electiosn, I’m sure they will respond. And get a good laugh!

  4. avatar
    James June 23, 2010 at 10:14 pm #

    That is true. Obama would have received the long-form BC if born in the hospital and he even stated he found it. Of course the $1,000,000.00 question is what happen that long-form BC. It would be strange that Obama someone lost it.

  5. avatar
    James June 23, 2010 at 10:18 pm #

    “Hence either he was born at home, which he has himself stated otherwise, or he was born outside the state. Once again, could have verified his claim at any time in the last three years, but no certificate.”

    Yes, it is pretty safe to assume Obama wasn’t born in the hospital. This leaves being born at home or outside a hospital the only alternative. But we havn’t even seen this information. Nonetheless, such information could have submitted fraudlently on behalf of the grandmother to make it appear as a matter of record that Obama was born in Hawaii when he was actually born somewhere else.

  6. avatar
    NbC June 23, 2010 at 10:33 pm #

    That is true. Obama would have received the long-form BC if born in the hospital and he even stated he found it. Of course the $1,000,000.00 question is what happen that long-form BC. It would be strange that Obama someone lost it.

    You may want to check your grammar. He did state that he saw a birth certificate but we do not know what happened to said certificate. And it does not matter, we do know that his birth certificate, as verified by the Department of Health of the State of Hawaii, shows him born on US soil.

  7. avatar
    NbC June 23, 2010 at 10:34 pm #

    James: Nonetheless, such information could have submitted fraudlently on behalf of the grandmother to make it appear as a matter of record that Obama was born in Hawaii when he was actually born somewhere else.

    Sure, anything is possible. But there is just no support for these scenarios.

    Ain’t that a bummer eh James? Nothing more than speculations that do not even rise to anything more than wishful thinking.

    Hilarious

  8. avatar
    JoZeppy June 23, 2010 at 10:36 pm #

    James: “Hence either he was born at home, which he has himself stated otherwise, or he was born outside the state. Once again, could have verified his claim at any time in the last three years, but no certificate.”Yes, it is pretty safe to assume Obama wasn’t born in the hospital. This leaves being born at home or outside a hospital the only alternative. But we havn’t even seen this information. Nonetheless, such information could have submitted fraudlently on behalf of the grandmother to make it appear as a matter of record that Obama was born in Hawaii when he was actually born somewhere else.

    It’s pretty safe to assume you still don’t have the slightest clue what you’re talking about, and will swallow any bit of birth b.s. that comes your way

  9. avatar
    G June 23, 2010 at 10:44 pm #

    James: Yes, it is pretty safe to assume Obama wasn’t born in the hospital.

    Based on what? There is no evidence to base such a conclusion on.

  10. avatar
    Ellid June 23, 2010 at 10:48 pm #

    The more he opens his mouth, the dumber Tim Adams looks. It’s quite clear he has no idea what he’s talking about, which is par for the course with a temp who only stayed long enough to think he knows more than he does.

  11. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 23, 2010 at 10:52 pm #

    Didn’t he originally say that they asked the hospital now he claims he asked the department of health? He just keeps spinning his claims

  12. avatar
    richCares June 23, 2010 at 10:52 pm #

    JoZeppy” “…and will swallow any bit of birth b.s. that comes your way”
    Spit or Swallow!

  13. avatar
    gwen June 23, 2010 at 11:28 pm #

    quote”Pres. Obama possesses a COLB, which in 1961 wasn’t given to children born at hospital.”
    Bullshit! I was born at Tripler in 1955. My COLB looks JUST LIKE Obama’s.

  14. avatar
    gwen June 23, 2010 at 11:33 pm #

    My ‘long form’ that was issued in 1955, is half the size of the COLB. My mother lost the ‘long form’ when her purse was stolen. I replaced it when I applied for a passport in 1980, and received a COLB. There is no reason to think Obama didn’t lose his the same way. How many people do you know that have the original certificate that was issued to them 40+ years ago. I don’t even have my son’s originals.

  15. avatar
    misha June 23, 2010 at 11:53 pm #

    As I wrote before, Adams is a pathological liar.

  16. avatar
    richCares June 23, 2010 at 11:59 pm #

    Misha: “As I wrote before, Adams is a pathological liar.”
    That is very obvious, his story has more holes than a fishing net. Only a birther, blinded by hate, can’t see the holes. Look how quicklty James fell for it, amazing!

  17. avatar
    Hawaiiborn June 24, 2010 at 1:34 am #

    James: That is true.Obama would have received the long-form BC if born in the hospital and he even stated he found it.Of course the $1,000,000.00 question is what happen that long-form BC.It would be strange that Obama someone lost it.

    No, Barack Obama II wouldn’t have received it; HIS PARENTS would have received it.

    When I was born, my parents filed and received my COLB . Then we moved to FL and moved back to Hawaii (when I was 2) and during that time, my parents LOST the COLB. They never needed a copy since 1) I was too young to need it and 2) filing taxes did not require it.

    It wasn’t until I turned 15 did I ask to get a copy and that was in 1989 when I received the famous Greeen COLB as seen all over the web. Hawaii has only issued the “short form” since at least the early 80’s (printed by a Dot matrix computer), then when they went completely digital, the printers were upgraded to laser printers.

    You show your ignorance with every post.

  18. avatar
    AnotherBird June 24, 2010 at 3:33 am #

    James: That is true.Obama would have received the long-form BC if born in the hospital and he even stated he found it.Of course the $1,000,000.00 question is what happen that long-form BC.It would be strange that Obama someone lost it.

    Head shake. In the context of citizenship by birth, it isn’t the hospitals responsibility. That responsibility is bestowed to a state control agency. In Hawaii that is the Department of Health. It isn’t the long-form BC that matters it is the records about the birth stored by the agency responsible for maintaining and granting birth certificates.

    The 5 cent question is why do some people refuse to take the time and learn some basic American law about citizen. Like it has been over 2 years now, 2 and half years if you include the nonsense by Ron Paul.

  19. avatar
    Greg June 24, 2010 at 8:55 am #

    James: It would be strange that Obama someone lost it.

    I have lost my birth certificate at least twice. My wife just replaced her birth certificate with the State of Minnesota and got a COLB. I don’t see why common human experience is “strange” when we’re talking about the President.

    Now, let’s compare Adams statement with the State of Hawaii:

    Adams: we have the replies given us by the Hawaii Dept of Health which stated they have no certificate,

    State of HawaiiTherefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures

    So, a friend of a friend told Adams that the Department of Health said they don’t have an Obama birth certificate. But, the Department of Health told the world they do have the birth certificate.

  20. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 24, 2010 at 11:22 am #

    Greg: So, a friend of a friend told Adams that the Department of Health said they don’t have an Obama birth certificate. But, the Department of Health told the world they do have the birth certificate.

    I would just ask Tim Adams how it was that Obama appeared in the “Vital Statistics” newspaper column in 1961 if there was no birth certificate. I mean, there was only one form, call it Certificate of Live Birth, or long form, or whatever, there’s only one kind of form.

    There is a fair amount of confusion over terms. The most frequently used term in the United States to describe a birth certificate for infants born alive in the jurisdiction and reported within the time required by regulation is “Certificate of Live Birth.” This is what is on the Nordyke certificates from Hawaii for children born in a hospital the day after President Obama. Children born outside the state will get a “Certificate of Foreign Birth” or a “Certificate of Out of State Birth” or a “Certificate of Fetal Death” or a “Certificate of Delayed Birth.” It stands to reason that “live birth” means the same thing on a “Certificate of Live Birth” as it does on a “Certification of Live Birth” (the Obama COLB).

    For Obama to have a COLB or a Vital Statistics newspaper announcement, there had to be a long form. One can go back and forth about who the informant was, and who the attendant was on that form, but there was a form. The State of Hawaii certified that there was a form (when Dr. Onaka’s stamp was placed the COLB) and the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health further certified it by signing a letter to that effect. The long form is the only possible form.

  21. avatar
    oldsalt79 June 24, 2010 at 11:27 am #

    The only question that I have is ” Why did Soetoro spend $1.3 million in legal fees to keep ALL of his records locked down, when $20.00 would have made ALL of the anger and suspicion evaporate into thin air? Either he is a real financial dumb ass or there is a much deeper reason. I personally stand with the latter.

  22. avatar
    richCares June 24, 2010 at 11:32 am #

    oldsalt79 “The only question that I have is ” Why did Soetoro spend $1.3 million”
    he didn’t, that’s birther bull, you are so gullible
    hate for Obama causes mental illnes!

  23. avatar
    BatGuano June 24, 2010 at 11:35 am #

    the records are private, not public . no different for you are me.

    there has been no evidence that obama has spent anything ( you wouldn’t have to to keep private records private ).

    $20 will get you a hawaiian COLB…….. which he did.

  24. avatar
    oldsalt79 June 24, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    The CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH that GIBBS posted on Fight the Smears was proven to have been forged. In addition it DID NOT bear the RAISED stamp of Hawaii,nor did it bear ONAKA’S signature stamp, in which case it is NOT CERTIFIED,and/or valid. It is only a CERTIFICATION when it BEARS THE RAISED STAMP( WITNESS). When these points were raised by everyone who examined the online document,it was hastily taken down an quickly reappeared bearing both the stamp and Onaka’s signature. This was a matter of only a few hours. NOT time enough for mail, or necessarily even a direct flight both ways. Quite a feat of magic.

  25. avatar
    Steve June 24, 2010 at 11:47 am #

    oldsalt79: The only question that I have is ” Why did Soetoro spend $1.3 million in legal fees to keep ALL of his records locked down, when $20.00 would have made ALL of the anger and suspicion evaporate into thin air? Either he is a real financial dumb ass or there is a much deeper reason. I personally stand with the latter.

    I think this answers your question:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNjRthxvSFg

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 24, 2010 at 11:56 am #

    oldsalt79: The CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH that GIBBS posted on Fight the Smears was proven to have been forged. In addition it DID NOT bear the RAISED stamp of Hawaii,nor did it bear ONAKA’S signature stamp, in which case it is NOT CERTIFIED,and/or valid. It is only a CERTIFICATION when it BEARS THE RAISED STAMP( WITNESS). When these points were raised by everyone who examined the online document,it was hastily taken down an quickly reappeared bearing both the stamp and Onaka’s signature. This was a matter of only a few hours. NOT time enough for mail, or necessarily even a direct flight both ways. Quite a feat of magic.

    The history of it is that the COLB image went to the Daily KOS web site before it went up on the Obama campaign web site. I have never seen any image (although faking one would be trivial) that lacks the faint image of the seal or the bleed through of the stamp.

    You can claim it was changed, but there’s no evidence I know of to indicate that it happened. And of course you have to answer the rather basic question, why would Obama forge a birth certificate when the State of Hawaii says he has a real one? The “forged certificate” myth might have had legs in June of 2008, but it’s dead since Dr. Fukino’s signed a statement that Obama was born in Hawaii.

  27. avatar
    richCares June 24, 2010 at 11:56 am #

    Quite a feat of magic.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    where do birthers get this stuff, mentally deranged!

  28. avatar
    Black Lion June 24, 2010 at 12:06 pm #

    oldsalt79 24. Jun, 2010 at 11:27 am oldsalt79(Quote) #
    The only question that I have is ” Why did Soetoro spend $1.3 million in legal fees to keep ALL of his records locked down, when $20.00 would have made ALL of the anger and suspicion evaporate into thin air? Either he is a real financial dumb ass or there is a much deeper reason. I personally stand with the latter

    You know that Doc. C is doing a good job when the hard core birthrs like oldsalt79, and ramjet767 are coming over here trying to incite things by repeating their nonsense and debunking theories. I guess oldsalt got tired of posting over at the ridiculous “Post and Fail” site and has decided to get some real answers.

    However I have a question for him. Who is Barry Soetero? I know of the President of the US, a Barack Obama. I am positive that he is the President because I saw him on TV yesterday from the White House and even on FOX they identified him as the President. I have no clue who this ficitional “Soetero” person is. Is he releated to the equally fictional “Steve Dunham”?

    And as far as the 1.3 million, it is amazing how this so called number changes. Sometimes it is 2 million, other times it is 1.7. Can you tell us what records the President is spending all of this money to hide? And can you tell us which lawsuits he used private lawyers to defend him? Because old buddy,. you have been paying for the defense of the President. We all have because he has been defended for the most part by the US Justice Department. So feel proud that your tax money is helping to defend our President against these ridiculous lawsuits.

    Let us see. We have the GOP governor of HI stating that Barack Obama was born in HI. We have the director of HI stated that Barack Obama was born in HI. We have the COLB, along with the vital statistic data that Leo Donofrio received which showed he was born in HI. We have contemporary newspaper accounts that stated that Barack Obama was born in HI. That is a lot of admissible concrete evidence of being born in HI.

    The birthers have 1 of 4 different fake Kenyan and Canadian Birth Certificates, one submitted by a convicted forger. A fake affidavit by a fictional bishop stating something that isn’t true. We have unsubstantiated statements by some Kenyan politicans. And we have Adams, a person who is repeating a story he “heard” and cannot provide any evidence to support his claims. The birther evidence is so ridiculous that it is laughable.

    But continue to believe and hope. Maybe that OMG moment, that your buddy Sam Swell the steady drip always claims is around the corner is here. Maybe you can take solace with JTX and his flying monkey squad. The only thing we know for sure is that Barack Obama is the President and will be until 2013 at least.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 24, 2010 at 12:17 pm #

    oldsalt79: The only question that I have is ” Why did Soetoro spend $1.3 million in legal fees to keep ALL of his records locked down, when $20.00 would have made ALL of the anger and suspicion evaporate into thin air? Either he is a real financial dumb ass or there is a much deeper reason. I personally stand with the latter.

    Only 1.3 million? I thought it was 2 million? or was it 2.5? $700,000? You birthers keep changing this number and have never been able to prove he even spent that. Just like the supposed 5 law firms you guys rattle on about without ever being able to name them.

  30. avatar
    JoZeppy June 24, 2010 at 12:34 pm #

    oldsalt79: The CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH that GIBBS posted on Fight the Smears was proven to have been forged. In addition it DID NOT bear the RAISED stamp of Hawaii,nor did it bear ONAKA’S signature stamp, in which case it is NOT CERTIFIED,and/or valid. It is only a CERTIFICATION when it BEARS THE RAISED STAMP( WITNESS). When these points were raised by everyone who examined the online document,it was hastily taken down an quickly reappeared bearing both the stamp and Onaka’s signature. This was a matter of only a few hours. NOT time enough for mail, or necessarily even a direct flight both ways. Quite a feat of magic.

    Why do birthers keep repeating long debunked myths? Can anyone be so far deep into their personal echo chamber that they really never come across the facts, or do they just think the rest of the world is so stupid that we haven’t noticed that they’re full of bunk?

  31. avatar
    misha June 24, 2010 at 12:58 pm #

    oldsalt79: The only question that I have is ” Why did Soetoro spend $1.3 million in legal fees to keep ALL of his records locked down, when $20.00 would have made ALL of the anger and suspicion evaporate into thin air?

    Because he wants to make people like you miserable.

  32. avatar
    Loren June 24, 2010 at 1:07 pm #

    My reaction:

    1) My, he’s a defensive fellow, isn’t he? We’ve seen this tone among Birthers all too often during the past two years; when confronted with problems with their story, their response is to be rude and sarcastic.

    2) His attempt at an explanation for that first question just raises more questions. He says “we have the replies given us by the Hawaii Dept of Health which stated they have no certificate.” In order for there to be replies, there had to first be inquiries. And why would the City of Honolulu Voter Registration office be making inquiries about Barack Obama’s birth records?

    3) Can someone please tell this guy what a COLB really is? That he keeps repeating this one incredibly inaccurate remark ought to automatically call into question any first-hand knowledge about Hawaiian vital records he claims to possess. Because he obviously doesn’t have a darn clue why/how Hawaii issues COLBs.

    4) “if TPC is white supremacist”? There’s no “if.” TPC is *very* upfront with its white supremacy on its website. It’s like saying “if” NAMBLA is pro-sex with little boys.

    5) He “was asked by James Edwards to come on his show.” Now how did that happen? How did he learn about Tim’s story when no media had covered it before? Was Tim spreading the story at the convention? How does a radio host just stumble across some supposedly random attendee with an outrageous story?

    6) TPC was the only media outlet willing to give him press? Obviously, he never attempted to contact WorldNetDaily. They’re so eager to promote Adams’ claims that they’re willing to hide the whole ‘white supremacist’ thing from their readers. Which they wouldn’t have to do if Adams had approached them first.

    7) Despite all this, Tim’s overall attitude should serve to remind us that not all Birthers have the same agenda. There’s a spectrum of conspiracism and denialism among the Birthers. Some, like Berg, believe every bit of the Kenyan conspiracy, but reject the two-citizen-parent stuff as legal nonsense. Others find the foreign birth idea silly, but have convinced themselves that there’s an arcane secret definition of “natural born citizen” that they’ve discovered. It looks like Tim may have managed to buy into the foreign birth part of the conspiracy theory without adopting any of the eligibility positions.

  33. avatar
    Loren June 24, 2010 at 1:24 pm #

    I have never seen any image (although faking one would be trivial) that lacks the faint image of the seal or the bleed through of the stamp.

    About nine months back, I had an extended exchange with “MHGinTN,” who claimed that Kos and/or FightTheSmears had posted seal-less COLBs.

    When I kept pointing out that every COLB he cited had a seal, he eventually resorted to claiming that he had saved a copy of the short-lived, seal-less COLB on his home computer. But then he refused to share the super-secret saved image that proved his claims.

    It’s true that on the smaller images of the COLB, there’s rather little indication of the embossed seal. But that’s simply because so much clarity is lost when you reduce the image down to an inch or two wide.

  34. avatar
    Black Lion June 24, 2010 at 2:16 pm #

    misha: Because he wants to make people like you miserable.

    I pointed out in an earlier post that oldsalt is a hardcore birther. You usally find him/her at moderated birther sites like the Post and Fail spewing the same nonsense….It seems like some of the real birthers have left their safe moderated birther world to try and mess with Dr. C. They must be getting worried…Maybe the donations in birtherland are starting to dry up?

  35. avatar
    G June 24, 2010 at 3:36 pm #

    Black Lion:
    I pointed out in an earlier post that oldsalt is a hardcore birther.You usally find him/her at moderated birther sites like the Post and Fail spewing the same nonsense….It seems like some of the real birthers have left their safe moderated birther world to try and mess with Dr. C.They must be getting worried…Maybe the donations in birtherland are starting to dry up?

    Yeah, and the timing of when they show up here is always interesting too.

    It is obvious from their actions that they consider sites like this & Politijab to be a threat to their little hate-based fantasies and that their only intentions here are either trolling or concern trolling.

    As soon as they get tired of being smacked down on here they seem to run off and get some of their buddies to take their place…or return with a different sock puppet.

    Rarely are there any truly just confused or concerned folks asking these questions out there these days – its mostly just hard-core, die-hard birthers pretending to be otherwise.

  36. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 24, 2010 at 3:46 pm #

    Loren: About nine months back, I had an extended exchange with “MHGinTN,” who claimed that Kos and/or FightTheSmears had posted seal-less COLBs.When I kept pointing out that every COLB he cited had a seal, he eventually resorted to claiming that he had saved a copy of the short-lived, seal-less COLB on his home computer. But then he refused to share the super-secret saved image that proved his claims.It’s true that on the smaller images of the COLB, there’s rather little indication of the embossed seal. But that’s simply because so much clarity is lost when you reduce the image down to an inch or two wide.

    Wow you had an exchange on freerepublic? I posted one comment on there and was instantly banned and had my post removed.

  37. avatar
    Dave June 24, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    oldsalt79: The only question that I have is ” Why did Soetoro spend $1.3 million in legal fees to keep ALL of his records locked down, when $20.00 would have made ALL of the anger and suspicion evaporate into thin air?

    Birthers ask this question a lot, though they never show any signs of listening to the answers.

    To the previous answers here, prominently that this $1.3 million figure is a baseless fabrication, I would add that the President has no motivation to release it. The already released COLB has already settled any question sensible people might have had. Birthers disbelieve the COLB already posted for reasons that are nonsense to everyone but them, and they will do the same to any other documentation the President provides. And the people who are asking for the original birth certificate are a numerically insignificant fringe. Less than 3% of registered voters in CA were motivated enough by this issue to get off their butts and vote for Taitz.

    So tell me this, if you think the President should provide his original birth certificate, why aren’t you demanding the same of all Congressmen? And Governors? How about future Presidential candidates? Tell me exactly, why is it only this President that you make these demands of, and nobody else?

  38. avatar
    Rickey June 24, 2010 at 5:21 pm #

    Steve:
    I think this answers your question:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNjRthxvSFg

    Thanks. That pretty much says it all!

  39. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett June 24, 2010 at 5:41 pm #

    “My information of course caught their attention, but my conclusions, including the citizenship of Pres. Obama, and his legitimacy to hold office, are not very welcome to them”

    So did he say them there and get cut off or shouted down? the youtube clip has the audio drop out towards the end and someone else pop on to gibber about how cool this “expose” is. Was he a victim of the thirty second delay?

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 24, 2010 at 6:19 pm #

    Black Lion: You know that Doc. C is doing a good job when the hard core birthers like oldsalt79, and ramjet767 are coming over here trying to incite things by repeating their nonsense and debunking theories.

    I found them below the quality of birthers we used to get. I think we’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I would make an analogy between these birthers and a non-swimmer. The birthers we used to get could make it half way across the pool before sinking. These just sink the moment they hit the water.

  41. avatar
    Scientist June 24, 2010 at 7:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The birthers we used to get could make it half way across the pool before sinking.

    Are you thinking of anyone in particular? They all just seem to repeat the same trite pseudo thoughts over and over again like a broken record. Only a novel perspective would have entertainment value at this point. For example, one of the supposed 1/3 of birthers who support Obama could be fun. None of them ever come here. Maybe Tim Adams will post. At least the “not born in Hawaii but eligible” has some novelty.

  42. avatar
    Bovril June 24, 2010 at 9:01 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I found them below the quality of birthers we used to get. I think we’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I would make an analogy between these birthers and a non-swimmer. The birthers we used to get could make it half way across the pool before sinking. These just sink the moment they hit the water.

    I believe the phrase is “Shallow end of the gene pool”

  43. avatar
    bob June 25, 2010 at 1:24 pm #

    I just noticed this gem in the Q&A:

    “I happened to be an observer at the CoCC national convention”

    How did Adam “happen” to be at CoCC convention? Did he stop by to use the restroom, and just happen to find himself at a racists’ convention?

    What does “observe” mean anyway? Is that like going to strip club and “observing” a stripper giving you a lap dance?

    (And Adams implication that CoCC (or TPC) isn’t racist is laughable.)

  44. avatar
    G June 25, 2010 at 2:30 pm #

    bob: I just noticed this gem in the Q&A:“I happened to be an observer at the CoCC national convention”How did Adam “happen” to be at CoCC convention?Did he stop by to use the restroom, and just happen to find himself at a racists’ convention?What does “observe” mean anyway?Is that like going to strip club and “observing” a stripper giving you a lap dance?(And Adams implication that CoCC (or TPC) isn’t racist is laughable.)

    Here is my theory on what happened and what Timothy Lee Adams is really trying to do – both get personal fame, while at the same time try to do “damage control” to cover up for being outed on his own racist views and past.

    I don’t think he was at the CoCC convention by accident at all.

    I think the damaging expose that was done here about his past history, which includes a number of prior racist statements was particularly damning in outing him:

    http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=10857

    Therefore, I think he’s merely trying to cover up his private past to protect his public image, his job and his future.

  45. avatar
    Black Lion June 25, 2010 at 2:39 pm #

    bob: I just noticed this gem in the Q&A:“I happened to be an observer at the CoCC national convention”How did Adam “happen” to be at CoCC convention? Did he stop by to use the restroom, and just happen to find himself at a racists’ convention?What does “observe” mean anyway? Is that like going to strip club and “observing” a stripper giving you a lap dance?(And Adams implication that CoCC (or TPC) isn’t racist is laughable.)

    Good points. If it wasn’t such a big deal then the Post and Fail and WND wouldn’t have neglected to mention that aspect of Timmy’s story. Believing that Timbo isn’t racist is like believing that Orly actually has a chance at becoming CA SoS…..

  46. avatar
    Black Lion June 25, 2010 at 2:46 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I found them below the quality of birthers we used to get. I think we’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I would make an analogy between these birthers and a non-swimmer. The birthers we used to get could make it half way across the pool before sinking. These just sink the moment they hit the water.

    These birthers are so hard core that they can’t create a coherent argument other than “I hate Obama”. These just parrot the same nonsense. At least Sven was creative with his ridiculous nonsense. These guys have no support for their opinions other than hatred of the President.

  47. avatar
    G June 25, 2010 at 3:26 pm #

    bob: I just noticed this gem in the Q&A:“I happened to be an observer at the CoCC national convention”How did Adam “happen” to be at CoCC convention?Did he stop by to use the restroom, and just happen to find himself at a racists’ convention?What does “observe” mean anyway?Is that like going to strip club and “observing” a stripper giving you a lap dance?(And Adams implication that CoCC (or TPC) isn’t racist is laughable.)

    Here is my theory on what happened and what Timothy Lee Adams is really trying to do – both get personal fame, while at the same time try to do “damage control” to cover up for being outed on his own racist views and past.

    I don’t think he was at the CoCC convention by accident at all.

    I think the damaging expose that was done at ohforgoodnessake.com about his past history, which includes a number of prior racist statements was particularly strong in outing him:

    http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=10857

    Therefore, I think he’s merely trying to cover up his private past to protect his public image, his current job and his future.

  48. avatar
    Sef June 27, 2010 at 8:42 am #

    NbC:
    You may want to check your grammar. He did state that he saw a birth certificate but we do not know what happened to said certificate. And it does not matter, we do know that his birth certificate, as verified by the Department of Health of the State of Hawaii, shows him born on US soil.

    Obama does say that he saw a “birth certificate”, but do we know that this was a “long form”? It could have been the one his mother used for his first passport when he left HI for Indonesia. What form of BC did HI give out in 196[4-7] to someone who requested one?

  49. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2010 at 9:03 am #

    Sef: Obama does say that he saw a “birth certificate”, but do we know that this was a “long form”?

    We don’t know that. Before Hawaii switched to paperless computer printed forms, they issued various forms of birth certificate. One is the familiar “long form” photocopied onto security paper such as the one we see from “Alan” and one is the photo negative copy from the Nordyke twins. They also typed short form information onto security paper (see Page 6).

    While we find photocopiers commonplace today, that was not the case in the 1960’s. I can remember being in college in 1968 where reproduction was being done by mimeograph. While I may be wrong, I would presume that if President Obama has a birth certificate that was issued in 1967, it is more than likely a typewritten short form.

  50. avatar
    Denverlady June 28, 2010 at 11:36 pm #

    Tim,

    Do you stand up for our Constitution? Then you will need to be very strong to deal with the fallout of the truth that you have exposed!!!!!

    The Chicago Mafia we have in the WH right now will do everything they can to discredit you from the truth. I hope that you were not clueless in thinking that the current “administration” would not come after you to and lie about the truth that you have exposed about them.

    As someone that has had the guts to finally tell the truth about BO, they will do everything they can to make you look like a liar.

    Thomas Jefferson said we would have to fight for our freedoms to maintain them.

    I will pray for you and your family and we WILL win in November and take their evil power away from them. Glenn Beck warn us today that they will pass everything they can between November and January. what does that tell you?

    Nancy Pelosi is so scared about what will happen after November that she is soliciting funds to keep her lame ass out of jail!!!

    Keep your head up as so many honest, hardworking folks are supporting you all over our country. I am proud of what you have done.

    Look at what Lieutent Lakey is doing. He is sacrificing his career to stand us for the truth. Keep up the good work and ask for support from all of us and we will do everything we can to expose the Muslim, Communistic, White House we have in office.

  51. avatar
    Denverlady June 28, 2010 at 11:43 pm #

    And….for those of you that are ignorant enough to think BO has proved his “natural born citizenship” I say open your eyes and read the Constitution!!!!!!

  52. avatar
    misha June 28, 2010 at 11:45 pm #

    Denverlady: is this parody, or have you been smoking pot?

    “Look at what Lieutent Lakey is doing.” Who is Lakey?
    “we will do everything we can to expose the Muslim, Communistic, White House we have in office.”

    The White House is Muslim and communist? I didn’t know buildings had feelings. Tell me more.

    “Glenn Beck warn us today” You mean the guy who is a heroin addict, and alcoholic?

  53. avatar
    misha June 28, 2010 at 11:51 pm #

    “those of you that are ignorant enough to think BO has proved his “natural born citizenship” I say open your eyes and read the Constitution!!!!!!”

    I have a paralegal certificate. I did read the 14th Amendment, the Wong Kim Ark decision, and the Ankeny decision!!!!!!!

    http://indianalawblog.com/archives/2009/11/ind_decisions_r_34.html

    How about you?

  54. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 29, 2010 at 12:00 am #

    Denverlady: And….for those of you that are ignorant enough to think BO has proved his “natural born citizenship” I say open your eyes and read the Constitution!!!!!!

    Oddly enough, I keep facsimile edition of the US Constitution on the desk here about 18 inches from the keyboard. It does talk about eligibility, but not about candidates “proving” it. Obama did, to my mind, prove that he was a natural born citizen when he released his birth certificate back in June of 2008 (not that I had doubts before that). If there had been any real problem with Obama’s eligibility, Fox News would have been covering nonstop before the election.

  55. avatar
    misha June 29, 2010 at 12:10 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It does talk about eligibility, but not about candidates “proving” it. Obama did, to my mind, prove that he was a natural born citizen when he released his birth certificate back in June of 2008 (not that I had doubts before that).

    No white man was ever asked to show his birth certificate.

  56. avatar
    mimi June 29, 2010 at 12:30 am #

    bob posted link to wnd’s latest post on Timmy. Poor Timmy. The victim of smears.

    Timmy says he had a private office, a secretary, and access to lots and lots of databases.

    Curious Blue researched and found that the data Timmy says was available to him was not.
    http://politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4164&start=250#p150763

  57. avatar
    nbC June 29, 2010 at 12:39 am #

    Denverlady: Look at what Lieutent Lakey is doing. He is sacrificing his career to stand us for the truth. Keep up the good work and ask for support from all of us and we will do everything we can to expose the Muslim, Communistic, White House we have in office.

    Hilarious, you cannot make this stuff up.

  58. avatar
    sfjeff June 29, 2010 at 1:07 am #

    I just know Denverlady thinks that all 69 million of us who voted for Obama are going to jail.

  59. avatar
    G June 29, 2010 at 1:46 am #

    Denverlady: And….for those of you that are ignorant enough to think BO has proved his “natural born citizenship” I say open your eyes and read the Constitution!!!!!!

    LMAO! Ah, more comedy gold! Two frothing posts by “Denverlady” out of the blue. Poor grammar in her first and mentions of Glenn Beck as one of her sources as well as the usual idle boasts & threats about the fall election and sprinkles of “scary” RW code words such as muslims and communists…LOL!

    If one wasn’t aware that the birthers are actually this mentally defective in their thinking, one would automatically assume that this was pure over-the-top parody.

    Big Pharma could make a killing if they could develop the right anti-psychotic meds for these types of birthers and their ilk!

  60. avatar
    SluggoJD June 29, 2010 at 2:05 am #

    Joy to the world, another fruit loop. Must be oxygen deprived up there in that mile high city.

  61. avatar
    nc1 June 29, 2010 at 3:27 am #

    Adams said that his position at the Hawaii elections office was at the GS-15 level.

    Obama supporters said that Adams was only a data entry clerk. How many of those would get a contract at the GS-15 level, have a secretary, two assistants and 50 temp workers under the supervision.

    According to him, both hospitals (Queen’s and the Kapiolani) were contacted by the elections office and the response was that they had no record of Obama being born in either facility.

    If he is lying Obama should sue him.
    I don’t think it will happen – instead the smear campaign against Adams will intensify.

  62. avatar
    Expelliarmus June 29, 2010 at 3:49 am #

    Adams is clearly lying because (a) there would be no reason for the election departments in Hawaii to call the hospitals, and (b) any idiot knows that you wouldn’t go about verify somebody’s birth 48 years previously by phoning hospitals, which don’t keep records that long.

    Since he is obviously lying about the phone calls, I assume he is lying about the GS level, assistants and secretary. He was a data entry clerk.

  63. avatar
    misha June 29, 2010 at 4:07 am #

    “He was a data entry clerk.”

    He was a seasonal flunkie. And a pathological liar.

  64. avatar
    nc1 June 29, 2010 at 4:32 am #

    Expelliarmus: Adams is clearly lying because (a) there would be no reason for the election departments in Hawaii to call the hospitals, and (b) any idiot knows that you wouldn’t go about verify somebody’s birth 48 years previously by phoning hospitals, which don’t keep records that long. Since he is obviously lying about the phone calls, I assume he is lying about the GS level, assistants and secretary. He was a data entry clerk.

    There was no reason for Gov. Lingle to say that they issued a press-release confirming that Obama was born in the Kapiolani Hospital.
    Does she fall under your definition of a pathological liar?

    Do you have a proof that Kapiolani and Queen’s hospitals do not have old birth records in their archives? Dr. Conspiracy told you few days ago that it is a wide spread practice for hospitals to retain the birth registration data indefinitely.

    GS-15, not a data entry clerk.

  65. avatar
    misha June 29, 2010 at 4:40 am #

    nc1: GS-15, not a data entry clerk.

    No, Tim Adams was a GS-420.

  66. avatar
    Expelliarmus June 29, 2010 at 6:04 am #

    GS-15 is a FEDERAL civil service job category. It also happens to be the highest category, and generally requires a Ph.D. or better in terms of education — as well as substantial experience.

    The Hawaii Office of Elections is a STATE OFFICE.. It does not categorize employees using the GS system — and it certainly wouldn’t hire a GS-15 equivalent category to do temporary, clerical work checking ballots and doing database entry.

    The fact that the guy claims to be GS-15 is essentially proof that he is a liar. It is patently ridiculous — the only thing that is more ridiculous is that anyone would be gullible enough to believe that claim.

    Hawaii uses an entirely different numbering system for its employees — it is likely that Adams had an “SR” pay grade, probably SR-10 at best.

    All you have to do is check the public employment web sites in Hawaii to know this.

  67. avatar
    Expelliarmus June 29, 2010 at 7:07 am #

    Actually, I don’t even think the temporary elections clerk job would have had a government civil service classification. It seems that Hawaii hires temps via Kelly Services — here’s a current listing:
    https://kellycareernetwork.tms.hrdepartment.com/cgi-bin/a/highlightjob.cgi?jobid=65596&referrer=&site_id=148&view_language=en-US

    They pay $10/hour. It’s listed as entry level, administrative/clerical – and requires the ability to type 40 wpm.

  68. avatar
    Greg June 29, 2010 at 8:40 am #

    Here’s the thing. Adams could be Pope Benedict and telling God’s honest truth and still be wrong. That’s the thing about hearsay. The person whose credibility is most important isn’t in the picture. How do we know this unnamed supervisor was telling the truth? Does he have a bias? Is he credible? Did he give an accurate description of what he was told by the hospitals?

    If it’s the same supervisor that has disputed Adams, then we have a clue. Either he’s telling the truth, which means that Adams is lying or Adams is telling the truth and the supervisor is a liar. Either way, the story is based on the words of a liar.

  69. avatar
    BatGuano June 29, 2010 at 9:47 am #

    nc1:
    GS-15

    highly unlikely.

    http://govcentral.monster.com/benefits/articles/1757

  70. avatar
    Passerby June 29, 2010 at 10:43 am #

    Why would an elections office be contacting hospitals? Seriously, that makes no sense. Especially for someone not even registered to vote in that state. I mean, what?

  71. avatar
    sfjeff June 29, 2010 at 12:11 pm #

    “If he is lying Obama should sue him.”

    For what? What would be the damage that Obama- a public figure- would be sueing Adams for? Adams is not causing Obama any personal damage. I would be surprised if Obama has even heard of him. The mere act of lieing by Adams about the President’s BC doesn’t mean that he can or should be sued. Surprisingly, lawsuits are not the answer to everything.

    “I don’t think it will happen – instead the smear campaign against Adams will intensify.”

    Ah yes, the smear campaign. i remember when Nixon complained about that too. If there is a smear campaign- people telliing lies about Adams- then Adams would have far more cause to sue those people. I don’t know that Adams would be even considered a public figure- maybe a few hundred thousand have heard of his claims- so the bar for libel would be far lower.

    Of course he won’t. He has nothing to gain by sueing anyone. As it is, he can make claims without providing any proof- and without anyone substantiating his claim and have fine organizations like WND support him.

  72. avatar
    sfjeff June 29, 2010 at 12:18 pm #

    Going back to Adams again- have any of his co-workers come out agreeing with anything Adams has said, other than confirming that he had worked in the elections office?

    What about his secretary? One of his staff of ’15’? Certainly its possible that he had a secretary or staff- but if so, where are their statements? Birthers are asking for witnesses to a birth 49 years ago, so finding someone who worked with Adams two years ago and could confirm the basic details of his statement- his staff, pay grade, access to data bases- should be a piece of cake.

  73. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 29, 2010 at 12:18 pm #

    nc1: If he is lying Obama should sue him.I don’t think it will happen – instead the smear campaign against Adams will intensify.

    Yeah because the president has all the time in his schedule to sue everyone who lies about him. I remember all those lawsuits that President Bush launched against the truthers don’t you?

    There is no smear campaign against Adams, Adams is being exposed for what he is.

  74. avatar
    G June 29, 2010 at 1:55 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Yeah because the president has all the time in his schedule to sue everyone who lies about him.I remember all those lawsuits that President Bush launched against the truthers don’t you?There is no smear campaign against Adams, Adams is being exposed for what he is.

    Exactly. Again, this is mere Birther projection in action, because they can only view other people’s actions through the lens of how they themselves operate.

    They dedicate their time to doing smear hit jobs on Obama, etc and make up whatever loathesome or silly story they can and try to spread it.

    That is just how birthers operate.

    Thus, when they hear bad things about anyone else, including their own, they automatically assume it must be a “smear”, because that is what they would do.

    Also, as they seem to be allergic to the truth and complain profusely when they themselves are found out, it is also easy to see how they have a negative view towards their own truth’s being exposed and would consider such to be “smears”.

    For example, look at how those that are actual racists and use racist statements wail and holler profuse denials and play the victim card when anyone calls them out and reveals them.

    So in summary, it comes down to these folks are starting with a very warped mindset and worldview and can only project their own ways and views onto others, because that is all they know. That is why they have a hard time with reality and can never seem to see their obvious failures and flaws in their efforts and approach and seem impervious/oblivious to how the outside world views them.

  75. avatar
    BrianB59 July 2, 2010 at 9:54 pm #

    Now that the idiots have figured out a ridiculous name to call those who are interested in the law being followed, it’s time we found a fitting name for them too. Since they rely on their total lack of intelligence when typing their stoopid ideas, I choose to call them ‘dopers’. Go ahead and continue to act like there is no conspiracy in DC, and that there is absolutely no evidence for concern on the subject of the great missing certificate. IT DOESN’T CHANGE THE FACTS. It just makes you look like the morons that you are.

    The fact remains: Oblahma has not proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that he has an original certificate. End of story.

    All the evidence points to a giant coverup…so there. Dopers….go find something to type about that you can actually understand.

  76. avatar
    G July 2, 2010 at 10:16 pm #

    BrianB59: All the evidence points to a giant coverup…so there. Dopers….go find something to type about that you can actually understand.

    LOL! Oh the irony! How hilarious and apropos that my posting explaining Birther projection is followed by a eager birther willing to provide an apt demonstration!

    I think BrianB59 needs to go do his homework and read the latest ruling in Third Circuit Court of Appeals decision in the appeal of Kerchner v Obama.

    Maybe then he can get some understanding of how the law works and what it means for it to be followed.

  77. avatar
    misha July 2, 2010 at 10:18 pm #

    BrianB59: All the evidence points to a giant coverup…so there. Dopers….go find something to type about that you can actually understand.

    Brian: I want to thank you for pointing this out. I found a Kenya BC (Obama’s?), that’s right here!

    Keep up the good fight!

  78. avatar
    SluggoJD July 3, 2010 at 12:43 am #

    BrianB59: Now that the idiots have figured out a ridiculous name to call those who are interested in the law being followed, it’s time we found a fitting name for them too.Since they rely on their total lack of intelligence when typing their stoopid ideas, I choose to call them dopers’.Go ahead and continue to act like there is no conspiracy in DC, and that there is absolutely no evidence for concern on the subject of the great missing certificate.IT DOESN’T CHANGE THE FACTS.It just makes you look like the morons that you are.The fact remains:Oblahma has not proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that he has an original certificate.End of story.All the evidence points to a giant coverup…so there.Dopers….go find something to type about that you can actually understand.

    Brian, I suggest you contact your hero, Lucas Smith, and ask him to ask the Virgin Mary to come visit you. Perhaps she can help you…because no one else can.

  79. avatar
    dunstvangeet July 3, 2010 at 12:44 am #

    BrianB59: The fact remains:Oblahma has not proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that he has an original certificate.

    1. Good thing he doesn’t need to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. Two things. The burden of proof is on those accusing Barack Obama of being a non-citizen. Barack Obama doesn’t have to prove his eligibility. You have to prove that he’s not eligible. And furthermore, there is no legal proof “beyond a shadow of a doubt” because it cannot legally be obtained. The legal proof that would apply here is a preponderance of the evidence (more likely than not), which he proved just by supplying his Certification of Live Birth.

    2. Obama doesn’t have to prove that he has an original certificate. He has to prove that he was born in the State of Hawaii. And he’s proven that by supplying a birth certificate certified by the State of Hawaii saying that he was born in the state of Hawaii.

    Now, imagine if you had to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were born in this country. What would you do? Provide a birth certificate that is supplied by the State that you were born? But wait, those won’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, because there are cases that birth certificates are fraudently registered. Would you call up your doctor and ask him? Do you expect a doctor at a hospital that has no relationship to you, who delivers 10 babies a day for the last 35+ years since you were born (approx. 91,000 babies) to remember you? Should he rely upon the medical records? But it’s possible that those medical records could have been forged. So, should we call up your mother? What if your mother died? But isn’t it possible that she’s in on the conspiracy?

    Isn’t it also within the realm of possibility that aliens have a time machine, and went back in time to plant the documents, so that you would appear absolutely legitimate? I cannot prove that it didn’t happen, so it is within the shadow of the doubt.

    Do you see why nothing legally can actually be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? Even to the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt, Obama has met this burden of proof.

  80. avatar
    Majority Will July 3, 2010 at 5:26 am #

    dunstvangeet:
    1. Good thing he doesn’t need to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt.Two things.The burden of proof is on those accusing Barack Obama of being a non-citizen.Barack Obama doesn’t have to prove his eligibility.You have to prove that he’s not eligible.And furthermore, there is no legal proof “beyond a shadow of a doubt” because it cannot legally be obtained.The legal proof that would apply here is a preponderance of the evidence (more likely than not), which he proved just by supplying his Certification of Live Birth.2. Obama doesn’t have to prove that he has an original certificate.He has to prove that he was born in the State of Hawaii.And he’s proven that by supplying a birth certificate certified by the State of Hawaii saying that he was born in the state of Hawaii.Now, imagine if you had to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were born in this country.What would you do?Provide a birth certificate that is supplied by the State that you were born?But wait, those won’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, because there are cases that birth certificates are fraudently registered.Would you call up your doctor and ask him?Do you expect a doctor at a hospital that has no relationship to you, who delivers 10 babies a day for the last 35+ years since you were born (approx. 91,000 babies) to remember you?Should he rely upon the medical records?But it’s possible that those medical records could have been forged.So, should we call up your mother?What if your mother died?But isn’t it possible that she’s in on the conspiracy?Isn’t it also within the realm of possibility that aliens have a time machine, and went back in time to plant the documents, so that you would appear absolutely legitimate?I cannot prove that it didn’t happen, so it is within the shadow of the doubt.Do you see why nothing legally can actually be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt?Even to the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt, Obama has met this burden of proof.

    Which is exactly why I respect and recommend Occam’s Razor for sane people.

  81. avatar
    Majority Will July 3, 2010 at 5:28 am #

    BrianB59: Now that the idiots have figured out a ridiculous name to call those who are interested in the law being followed, it’s time we found a fitting name for them too.Since they rely on their total lack of intelligence when typing their stoopid ideas, I choose to call them dopers’.Go ahead and continue to act like there is no conspiracy in DC, and that there is absolutely no evidence for concern on the subject of the great missing certificate.IT DOESN’T CHANGE THE FACTS.It just makes you look like the morons that you are.The fact remains:Oblahma has not proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that he has an original certificate.End of story.All the evidence points to a giant coverup…so there.Dopers….go find something to type about that you can actually understand.

    Classic paranoid stupidity.

  82. avatar
    BlackLion July 3, 2010 at 6:16 am #

    Anyone see this article? It seems that Jefferson and the founders were looking at English Common law in regards to the Constitution….If not he would not have used the word “subject” in the earlier draft…I think that cements that Jefferson and the other founders were thinking of “natural born subject” in determining the definition of what a natural born citizen meant….Definately not Vattel…

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38062085/ns/us_news/?gt1=43001

    WASHINGTON — Preservation scientists at the Library of Congress have discovered that Thomas Jefferson, even in the act of declaring independence from England, had trouble breaking free from monarchial rule.

    In an early draft of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson wrote the word “subjects,” when he referred to the American public. He then erased that word and replaced it with “citizens,” a term he used frequently throughout the final draft.

    The Library released news of the struck word for the first time on Friday.

    Fenalla France, a research chemist at the Library, said her lab made the discovery last year by using hyperspectral imaging, using a high resolution digital camera that compiles a series of images to highlight layers of a document. Some of those invisible layers — like erased text and even fingerprints — pop into view on a computer screen.

    In switching from “subjects” to “citizens,” France said it appears Jefferson used his hand to wipe the word out while the ink was still wet. A distinct brown smudge is apparent on the paper, although the word “subjects” is not legible without the help of the digital technology.

    “This has been a very exciting development,” France said, calling the findings “spine-tingling.”

    Historic, handwritten documents reveal clues about the past that word processors cannot illuminate, said James Billington, librarian of Congress.

    “It shows the progress of his mind. This was a decisive moment,” Billington said. “We recovered a magic moment that was otherwise lost to history.”

    Accompanied by police escort, the document was unveiled outside its protective case for the first time in 15 years on Friday morning for a demonstration of the hyperspectral imaging technology. It normally can only be viewed through a 130-poundb oxygen-free safe.

    Donning a pair of white researchers’ gloves, Maria Nugent, director of the Library of Congress’ top treasures collection, slowly lifted a piece of off-white corrugated cardboard to reveal the rough draft of the Declaration, which includes handwritten corrections by both John Adams and Benjamin Franklin.

    “That’s a pretty good editorial committee,” said Billington, who was present for the procedure.

    The rough draft was written on two sheets of white legal-sized paper, on both the back and front sides of the sheets.

    The document was returned to the library’s vault on Friday after the testing.

    _____

    Online: The text of Jefferson’s rough draft can be viewed at http://www.myloc.gov.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 3, 2010 at 11:23 am #

    BrianB59: Now that the idiots have figured out a ridiculous name to call those who are interested in the law being followed, it’s time we found a fitting name for them too.Since they rely on their total lack of intelligence when typing their stoopid ideas, I choose to call them dopers’.Go ahead and continue to act like there is no conspiracy in DC, and that there is absolutely no evidence for concern on the subject of the great missing certificate.IT DOESN’T CHANGE THE FACTS.It just makes you look like the morons that you are.The fact remains:Oblahma has not proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that he has an original certificate.End of story.All the evidence points to a giant coverup…so there.Dopers….go find something to type about that you can actually understand.

    Interested in the law? Really is that why the birthers base their arguments not on established law but something they pulled out of their backside? The law is being followed that’s why the birthers keep losing their cases. The certificate isn’t missing he’s shown it already but you guys don’t accept that because you’re schizophrenic. Obama has proved more than any president before him that he is a natural born citizen. There is no coverup that’s just the birthers giving themselves dutch ovens

  84. avatar
    Sef July 3, 2010 at 2:33 pm #

    BrianB59: The fact remains: Oblahma has not proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that he has an original certificate. End of story.

    Brian, if you are still around, please name one thing which is true “beyond a shadow of a doubt” i.e. “absolutely true”. Even the “law of gravity” is tentative.