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Obama a Muslim, Egyptian official says?

Flash traffic received on the Birther network!

As reported on the Israel Today web site today,

The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim,” said Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit on Nile TV.

Normally one views diplomats as the soul of discretion. However, this article claims that the Egyptian Foreign Minister repeated on TV something President Obama told him in confidence. That is a very strange claim. Israel Yahom (Israel Today), is a free daily supporting Prime Minister Netanyahu and has carried extensive “Where’s the Birth Certificate” advertising and a consistently anti-Obama editorial position such as this from last January:

In addition to bolstering Republican opposition to US President Barack Obama’s more liberal policies in the Senate, Brown will increase support for Israel in Congress, thereby making it even harder for Obama to ram through his wayward Middle East policies by using economic pressure.

You will remember that it was another right-wing pro-Israel web site, the Israel Insider, that was in the forefront of reporting that Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery.

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101 Responses to Obama a Muslim, Egyptian official says?

  1. avatar
    BatGuano June 15, 2010 at 5:04 pm #

    thanks doc.

  2. avatar
    Mary Brown June 15, 2010 at 5:10 pm #

    And it hasn’t hit the airwaves yet?

  3. avatar
    Bovril June 15, 2010 at 5:17 pm #

    There are rumblings in Birferstan but teh Ebil Lame Stream Media Obots are hiding it ….they have all been paid of and treatened by MOOSLEMS. not like us PATRIOTS!!!!

    Sorry….side chanelling a little Oaf Keeper for a moment

  4. avatar
    Greg June 15, 2010 at 5:44 pm #

    I wonder if they’ve confirmed that this was actually said by the Egyptian foreign minister. Earlier reports had an Israeli birther claiming that his wife saw the Egyptian minister say it on TV.

  5. avatar
    Jules June 15, 2010 at 6:29 pm #

    I disapprove of the use of the term “pro-Israel” to refer to being in favour of particular right-wing Israeli policies. People who love Israel may oppose the policies of the current Israeli government just as someone who loves the USA may oppose the policies of the administration of the day. I regard myself as pro-Israel and it is precisely because I want Israel to survive and thrive that I oppose the policies of the current Israeli government that I view as harmful to Israel and its long-term security.

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 15, 2010 at 7:57 pm #

    Jules: I disapprove of the use of the term “pro-Israel”

    What would you suggest? I was thinking about “Zionist.” I don’t know enough about Israeli politics to chose an appropriate label.

  7. avatar
    Bovril June 15, 2010 at 8:19 pm #

    I will admit to a certain nasty humour when I view the rather rabid support our right wing, right on, “Constitutional expert” Birfer friends have for Israel.

    This compares with an Israel which was founded on and maintains staunch Socialist principles as well as a rather nasty theological failure to seperate state and religion….

    But hey, no-one every accused Birfer land of consistency or rationality

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 15, 2010 at 8:26 pm #

    When I was writing this article, given all the talk about racism in the discussions here yesterday, I kept remembering that UN Resolution from long ago (1975): “Zionism is a form of racism.”

  9. avatar
    richCares June 15, 2010 at 10:39 pm #

    Someone is Lying!
    yes, to you!

  10. avatar
    Dave June 15, 2010 at 10:41 pm #

    James:
    Someone is Lying!

    Since I can bring myself to listen to that, let me guess — is that Peter Boyles rehashing the Tim Adams stormfront thing, which even Tim Adams has already retracted, and which has already been extensively discussed here?

  11. avatar
    Ellid June 15, 2010 at 11:45 pm #

    Of course someone is lying. My money’s on the author of this ridiculous “article,” not the President or anyone connected to the government of Hawaii.

  12. avatar
    d June 16, 2010 at 12:20 am #

    Someone lying?

    Now who would that be–a sitting governor and the extant bureaucratic professionals of a state government.?

    Or some temp lunatic who announced on Nazi radio that he thought something his position gave him no ability to know and got the mouth breathers all excited.

    I’ll leave the answer to you and your gene pool.

  13. avatar
    Black Lion June 16, 2010 at 9:59 am #

    Non-Shocker: WND Treats Unverified Claim As Real
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Facts, schmacts — WorldNetDaily don’t need no stinkin’ facts to do a story. (See Sinclair, Larry, and birth certificate, Kenyan.)

    So WND was incredibly eager to jump on a claim that some Egyptian official is claiming that President Obama told him that he is a Muslim, with Bob Unruh — WND’s king of biased reporting — pounding out a story treating the claim as if it was real.

    It’s not until the 15th paragraph that Unruh hints there may be a problem: “There was no independent verification of the statement.”

    Even the right-wing Hot Air proceded with caution on the story, pointing out that the video supplied “will not confirm that Barack Obama made the statements claimed.”

    WND and Unruh don’t need no stinkin’ verification. They hate Obama so much, they no longer care about the truth (if they ever did).They will spread every smear and lie about him because they can.

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog?entry_id=2029288

  14. avatar
    richCares June 16, 2010 at 10:31 am #

    How many fake stories does it take for James to get reality?
    let me rephrase that:
    How many birthers does it take to change a light bulb?

  15. avatar
    BatGuano June 16, 2010 at 10:36 am #

    richCares: How many fake storiesdoes it take for James to get reality?

    about the same amount as it takes licks to get to the tootsie-roll center of a tootsie-pop.

  16. avatar
    Sef June 16, 2010 at 10:59 am #

    BatGuano:
    about the same amount as it takes licks to get to the tootsie-roll center of a tootsie-pop.

    But that is not a denumerable infinitude.

  17. avatar
    Bovril June 16, 2010 at 11:02 am #

    What actually happens with James is he gets his ass handed to him here, he then goes and posts the same crap on AGJ.

    Exhibit A

    Comment 15

    http://americangrandjury.org/stuck-on-stupid#comment-29999

    He receives a variety of “Atta Boys” from the rest of his dysfunctional family and then returns to the fray refreshed and re-validated to re-post the same cack again.

    Rinse and Repeat

  18. avatar
    thisoldhippie June 16, 2010 at 11:09 am #

    I thought it took 3 licks – 1, 2, thrrrr(roll)eee, CRUNCH! Oh, yeah – just like the owl birthers forego the investigation and go straight to publishing banners that the latest rumor is TRUE and that all they need is for Orly to contact the rumor bearer and be given the discovery she is entitled to and then President Obama will come tumbling down.

  19. avatar
    thisoldhippie June 16, 2010 at 11:25 am #

    Wow, went to the AGJ site and saw this:

    ledbythnose Says:
    June 16th, 2010 at 6:22 am
    19 germak
    Thanks and Howdy.
    I am glad someone is calling for the American People to storm Washington. Its way past time for this to happen. I have been calling for months now for the American People to send an ultimatum to Washington demanding Soetoros removal and arrest. As well as the arrest of most of Congress. We must now follow the Bill of Rights and abolish this present criminal Government and hold special elections to replace and repair the damage inflicted by this one. There is nothing I would like to see any more than thousands of Bus loads of armed Patriots surrounding the Capitol with the intent of taking this Government back at this time.There are millions of us ready. We are just patiently waiting for the call to arms.May God bless and save the Republic for which we stand.
    Godspeed.

  20. avatar
    Daniel June 16, 2010 at 11:46 am #

    Hmmmm what was I saying before about Conspiracy nuts turning into terrorists?

  21. avatar
    Sef June 16, 2010 at 11:52 am #

    thisoldhippie: Wow, went to the AGJ site and saw this:ledbythnose Says:
    June 16th, 2010 at 6:22 am
    19 germak
    Thanks and Howdy.
    I am glad someone is calling for the American People to storm Washington. Its way past time for this to happen. I have been calling for months now for the American People to send an ultimatum to Washington demanding Soetoros removal and arrest. As well as the arrest of most of Congress. We must now follow the Bill of Rights and abolish this present criminal Government and hold special elections to replace and repair the damage inflicted by this one. There is nothing I would like to see any more than thousands of Bus loads of armed Patriots surrounding the Capitol with the intent of taking this Government back at this time.There are millions of us ready. We are just patiently waiting for the call to arms.May God bless and save the Republic for which we stand.
    Godspeed.

    Well, they gotta use those FEMA camps for something. And according to MichaelN they & their progeny would no longer be citizens. LOL!

  22. avatar
    Black Lion June 16, 2010 at 12:02 pm #

    The AGJ folks are just some delusional individuals…

    Another post…

    germak Says:
    June 15th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
    Well hello Patriots. I haven’t been on this site in quite a while, but got on tonight and see your blogging, and I just wanted to let you know about General Vallely (Retired) calling for Obama’s resignation. Also for the whole administration and most of congress. I heard him speak on blog-talk radio on June 9 and he is calling on millions of us storming the white house, and for those that can’t go to DC, then storm all the state capitols all on the same day. I do believe he is organizing for that. He said our country couldn’t wait for the November elections, we need to do this asap. I have given you the link to his site. Please read his address in Montana. Also, please sign up on his site. He said this would remove him from office, as it will show that the people have lost confidence in this administration. It will have to last longer than a day. Also, he said on the radio that he was calling for all veterans and oath keepers to attend with their arms. He has had a big backlash on his stance. All of us need to support him. I really believe this would work, but we have all got to be involved. It is certainly worth the effort to try. What say you?

    http://standupamericaus.com/lincoln-reagan-dinner:33318

    And from this comment we can see that James has really gone down the rabbit hole…

    James Says:
    June 15th, 2010 at 7:35 pm
    Tune into the Obama Eligiblity Radio Network: http://www.khow.com/pages/boyles.html
    Peter Boyles discusses Obama’s eligiblity on his radio nearly every day. Peter often brings important figures in the Obama eligiblity issue. Guests include: Margaret Hemenway, Jerry Corsi, WND reporters, Susan Daniels, and many others. Tune each morning if want to listen to Obama eligiblity stuff nonstop.

    Possibly James is a shill for the Post and Fail or other birther site?

  23. avatar
    richCares June 16, 2010 at 12:31 pm #

    We shouldn’t hear from James anymore. I found his photo so I tore it up and then burned it. According to James’ own theory that means no more James, that’s the end of James, good riddance.

  24. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 16, 2010 at 1:30 pm #

    richCares: We shouldn’t hear from James anymore. I found his photo so I tore it up and then burned it. According to James’ own theory that means no more James, that’s the end of James, good riddance.

    If we don’t hear from Richcares anymore know that it is because the police are after him for murdering james

  25. avatar
    Daniel June 16, 2010 at 2:04 pm #

    richCares: We shouldn’t hear from James anymore. I found his photo so I tore it up and then burned it. According to James’ own theory that means no more James, that’s the end of James, good riddance.

    Photocide

  26. avatar
    Jules June 16, 2010 at 2:19 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What would you suggest? I was thinking about “Zionist.” I don’t know enough about Israeli politics to chose an appropriate label.

    There are many different kinds of Zionists, including members of Meretz who believe that a strong Israel means an Israel existing within its pre-1967 borders.

    I think that the word that you were looking for is “Likudnik”. Of course, there are right-wing Israeli parties other than Likud, but Likud has become sufficiently prominent and right-wing for its name to be generally associated with the Israeli right wing.

    Part of the oddity of Israeli society and politics is that government coalitions often include Shas and United Torah Judaism, parties of non-Zionist religious extremists.

  27. avatar
    nc1 July 10, 2010 at 4:42 pm #

    NASA’s new direction: Outreach to Muslims
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/NASA_s-Muslim-outreach_-Al-Jazeera-told-first-98058674.html

    How many examples do you need before recognizing Obama’s true colors?

  28. avatar
    bob July 10, 2010 at 4:48 pm #

    nc1: How many examples do you need before recognizing Obama’s true colors?

    Yawn.

  29. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 4:51 pm #

    And who knew that the roots of algebra can be traced to the ancient Babylonians?

    Or that birthers are xenophobic, paranoid bigots?

  30. avatar
    sfjeff July 10, 2010 at 4:53 pm #

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/07/white-house-nasa-defend-comments-about-nasa-outreach-to-muslim-world-criticized-by-conservatives.html

    “Another response was offered by the liberal media monitoring group Media Matters, which wrote a story titled “Yet again, an Obama official says ‘Muslim,’ right-wing media freak-out follows.””

    Thank you for bringing this to my attention NC1. I didn’t realize that the Administration was looking to include the Muslim world as well as Russia and other nations in our national space effort.

  31. avatar
    sfjeff July 10, 2010 at 4:56 pm #

    Another take on it

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/08/jon-stewart-rips-fox-news_n_639103.html

  32. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 10, 2010 at 5:07 pm #

    nc1: NASA’s new direction: Outreach to Muslims
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/NASA_s-Muslim-outreach_-Al-Jazeera-told-first-98058674.htmlHow many examples do you need before recognizing Obama’s true colors?

    Yeah and Reagan used the NASA program to reach out to the soviets. Give it a rest already

  33. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 5:15 pm #

    No more arabic numerals!

  34. avatar
    Sef July 10, 2010 at 5:19 pm #

    Majority Will: Quote

    Or coffee.

  35. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 5:29 pm #

    Why would a U.S. President embrace a Muslim?

  36. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 10, 2010 at 7:01 pm #

    nc1: How many examples do you need before recognizing Obama’s true colors?

    I think it has been clear from the beginning that Barack Obama tries to open dialog with people that he has differences with. His strategy is engagement over confrontation when confrontation isn’t likely to solve anything. Engagement is a reasonable strategy. The Conservative definition of evil, “anything Obama does”, is not constructive. The very fact that NC1 just cites the article and expects everyone to think it proves something bad demonstrates the lack of rational connection between “Obama did it” and “it’s bad.”

  37. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 8:22 pm #

    Bombing for peace works so much better?

  38. avatar
    nc1 July 10, 2010 at 9:01 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Yeah and Reagan used the NASA program to reach out to the soviets. Give it a rest already

    Soviet Union already had an advanced space program – that is not the case with any Muslim country. You can’t even pretend that there could be a meaningful partnership with Muslim countries in exploring the space.

    I understand that the community-organizer-in-chief is doing what he knows best – wasting money on feel good programs.

  39. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 10, 2010 at 9:08 pm #

    nc1:
    Soviet Union already had an advanced space program – that is not the case with any Muslim country. You can’t even pretend that there could be a meaningful partnership with Muslim countries in exploring the space.I understand that the community-organizer-in-chief is doing what he knows best – wasting money on feel good programs.

    I doubt you even know what capabilities any muslim country may even have.

  40. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 9:09 pm #

    nc1:
    Soviet Union already had an advanced space program – that is not the case with any Muslim country. You can’t even pretend that there could be a meaningful partnership with Muslim countries in exploring the space.I understand that the community-organizer-in-chief is doing what he knows best – wasting money on feel good programs.

    “The” space? Aren’t you a woman from central Europe?

  41. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 9:16 pm #

    nc1:
    Soviet Union already had an advanced space program – that is not the case with any Muslim country. You can’t even pretend that there could be a meaningful partnership with Muslim countries in exploring the space.I understand that the community-organizer-in-chief is doing what he knows best – wasting money on feel good programs.

    So, is your solution to eliminate everyone that is not just like you?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

    Hypocrisy is strong with this one, Padawan.

  42. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 9:16 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    I doubt you even know what capabilities any muslim country may even have.

    I doubt she has a job.

  43. avatar
    nc1 July 10, 2010 at 9:36 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I doubt you even know what capabilities any muslim country may even have.

    For example?

  44. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 9:42 pm #

    nc1:
    Bow to the Saudi King:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WlqW6UCeaY&feature=related

    We know you, naturalized citizen. Your attempts are still funny and rank as a 3 as punk stupidity.

    Keep it up, please. It’s still bizarre enough.

    http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2009/04/image690875x.jpg

  45. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 9:43 pm #

    nc1:
    For example?

    Do you understand English?

  46. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 10, 2010 at 9:44 pm #

    nc1:
    For example?

    Malaysia has a space program
    http://searchwarp.com/swa61113.htm

    http://www.dailymuslims.com/News-Articles/48.html

    as well as Pakistan, Iran so again don’t make assumptions without knowing the facts

  47. avatar
    sfjeff July 11, 2010 at 3:42 am #

    Silly Conservatives….so willing to cut off all of our noses to spite Obama.

    A space program to Mars would be hyper expensive. We could either ignore the vast wealth of countries like Saudi Arabia or engage in dialogue with them and seek to ally our program with their wealth.

  48. avatar
    Dave July 11, 2010 at 7:17 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Malaysia has a space program
    http://searchwarp.com/swa61113.htmhttp://www.dailymuslims.com/News-Articles/48.htmlas well as Pakistan, Iran so again don’t make assumptions without knowing the facts

    Other examples are Egypt, Indonesia, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia.

    These may not make the news much, but most countries that do stuff in space do so through international cooperation. For example, all the countries in Europe. I think our birther friends need to understand that international cooperation is not a bad thing. And that most Americans do not share their anti-Muslim bigotry.

  49. avatar
    nc1 July 11, 2010 at 9:51 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Malaysia has a space programhttp://searchwarp.com/swa61113.htmhttp://www.dailymuslims.com/News-Articles/48.htmlas well as Pakistan, Iran so again don’t make assumptions without knowing the facts

    I would not call it a space program:
    “…The programme was conceived in 2003 when Russia agreed to send a Malaysian to the ISS as part of Malaysia’s RM3.42-billion purchase of 18 Russian-made Sukhoi-30MKM fighter jets. The Russian government is bearing the cost of the programme…”
    The programme was conceived in 2003 when Russia agreed to send a Malaysian to the ISS as part of Malaysia’s RM3.42-billion purchase of 18 Russian-made Sukhoi-30MKM fighter jets. The Russian government is bearing the cost of the programme…”

    Several wealthy people did the same (bought a seat from Russians on a flight to ISS).

  50. avatar
    Dave July 11, 2010 at 10:03 am #

    nc1:
    I would not call it a space program…

    I am struggling to understand your point. You think NASA should not be collaborating with the space agencies of Muslim countries, because you are unimpressed with one particular program of the Malaysian space agency?

  51. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 12:35 pm #

    nc1:
    I would not call it a space program:
    “…The programme was conceived in 2003 when Russia agreed to send a Malaysian to the ISS as part of Malaysia’s RM3.42-billion purchase of 18 Russian-made Sukhoi-30MKM fighter jets. The Russian government is bearing the cost of the programme…”
    The programme was conceived in 2003 when Russia agreed to send a Malaysian to the ISS as part of Malaysia’s RM3.42-billion purchase of 18 Russian-made Sukhoi-30MKM fighter jets. The Russian government is bearing the cost of the programme…”Several wealthy people did the same (bought a seat from Russians on a flight to ISS).

    You missed the point. You acted like Muslim countries have no space programs and we shouldn’t be reaching out to them. The fact is they do. Many of them have launch capability.

  52. avatar
    nc1 July 11, 2010 at 12:56 pm #

    Dave: I am struggling to understand your point. You think NASA should not be collaborating with the space agencies of Muslim countries, because you are unimpressed with one particular program of the Malaysian space agency?

    Collaboration with Muslim countries is OK. However it should not be the top priority for NASA.
    It indicates where Obama’s heart is. What do you expect from a person who is on record mentioning that Islamic call to prayer is one of the sweetest sounds on earth and can recite it in Arabic.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 1:00 pm #

    nc1:
    Collaboration with Muslim countries is OK. However it should not be the top priority for NASA.
    It indicates where Obama’s heart is. What do you expect from a person who is on record mentioning that Islamic call to prayer is one of the sweetest sounds on earth and can recite it in Arabic.

    Why shouldn’t we reach out to them? No one else has made the first step. Wow Obama is culturally diverse yeah he must be a muslim I’m not catholic but I think Gregorian Chants are beautiful.

  54. avatar
    Majority Will July 11, 2010 at 1:01 pm #

    More xenophobic B.S. and bigotry. Disgusting.

  55. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 1:06 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Why shouldn’t we reach out to them?No one else has made the first step.Wow Obama is culturally diverse yeah he must be a muslimI’m not catholic but I think Gregorian Chants are beautiful.

    ah I forgot i can’t do my end sarcasm block quote

  56. avatar
    nc1 July 11, 2010 at 1:22 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Why shouldn’t we reach out to them? No one else has made the first step. Wow Obama is culturally diverse yeah he must be a muslim I’m not catholic but I think Gregorian Chants are beautiful.

    Outreach is fine, it should be low on the priority list – it should not be NASA’s top priority.

    Can you recite any catholic prayer in Latin?

  57. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 1:45 pm #

    nc1:
    Outreach is fine, it should be low on the priority list – it should not be NASA’s top priority.Can you recite any catholic prayer in Latin?

    Yeah, can you not come off as a xenophobic racist?

  58. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 11, 2010 at 2:17 pm #

    nc1: Collaboration with Muslim countries is OK. However it should not be the top priority for NASA.

    OK what is the top problem the US faces? In any poll, relations with the Islamic world is in the top 3 (under the label of “terrorism”). So I think your criticism of Obama’s policy is not well thought out.

    [Lead by example, Doc. Lead by example.]

  59. avatar
    Rickey July 11, 2010 at 3:45 pm #

    nc1:
    Can you recite any catholic prayer in Latin?

    I can.

    Suscipiat Dominus sacrificium de manibus tuis, ad laudem et gloriam nominis sui, ad utilitatem quoque nostram, totiusque ecclesiae suae sanctae.

    What’s your point?

  60. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 4:19 pm #

    Rickey:
    I can.Suscipiat Dominus sacrificium de manibus tuis, ad laudem et gloriam nominis sui, ad utilitatem quoque nostram, totiusque ecclesiae suae sanctae.What’s your point?

    V. Kyrie, eléison.
    R. Christe, eléison.
    V. Kyrie, eléison.

    V. Christe, audi nos.
    R. Christe, exáudi nos.

    V. Pater de c¦lis, Deus.
    R. Miserére nobis.

    V. Fili, Redémptor mundi, Deus.
    R. Miserére nobis.

    I think that the point is because Obama is cultured that somehow he is a closet muslim. Its back to the old smear from the campaigns with NC1. Who from my research and other posts we think he’s done is a naturalized citizen born in one of the Russian territories.

    I think gregorian chants are beautiful without being catholic. I think some of the hebrew songs are beautiful without being jewish. And yes even some of the islamic prayers are beautiful without being muslim. People can appreciate the work and art involved in these without being a member of the religion themselves. This is something NC1 doesn’t understand.

  61. avatar
    Northland10 July 11, 2010 at 5:51 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): V. Kyrie, eléison.
    R. Christe, eléison.
    V. Kyrie, eléison.

    People and things can have a different background or ancestry and yet still be considered an equal and valuable part of their current community (or usage). Case in point, Kyrie Eleison is actually Greek (but, considered an integral part of a Latin mass).

  62. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:04 pm #

    Northland10:
    People and things can have a different background or ancestry and yet still be considered an equal and valuable part of their current community (or usage).Case in point, Kyrie Eleison is actually Greek (but, considered an integral part of a Latin mass).

    Oh then that means I must be a closet greek orthodox according to NC1 :P

  63. avatar
    Dave July 11, 2010 at 9:19 pm #

    nc1:
    What do you expect from a person who is on record mentioning that Islamic call to prayer is one of the sweetest sounds on earth and can recite it in Arabic.

    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    OK what is the top problem the US faces? In any poll, relations with the Islamic world is in the top3 (under the label of “terrorism”). So I think your criticism of Obama’s policy is not well thought out.

    Your words have given me the insight that NASA should also be collaborating with the American right-wing crazies, since they are also under the label “terrorism.”

  64. avatar
    Majority Will July 11, 2010 at 9:42 pm #

    “Can you recite any catholic prayer in Latin?”

    No. I can’t. Another pointless comment from the hate filled xenophobe?

  65. avatar
    sfjeff July 12, 2010 at 12:07 am #

    Certainly NC1 has a point. The Obama administration should avoid communication with Muslim nations because that was the strategy Bush used so successfully.

  66. avatar
    misha July 12, 2010 at 12:10 am #

    nc1: What do you expect from a person who is on record mentioning that Islamic call to prayer is one of the sweetest sounds on earth and can recite it in Arabic.

    So? I’m Jewish, and graduated from a Jesuit college. I am one of the few Jews who can recite the Lord’s Prayer.

    I remember visiting my Alma Mater, and hearing church bells during the day. You know, I actually missed hearing them. When I heard them, it was a comfort.

  67. avatar
    misha July 12, 2010 at 12:14 am #

    sfjeff: The Obama administration should avoid communication with Muslim nations because that was the strategy Bush used so successfully.

    Yes, exactly. Just like the people who lecture me about the lack of civil rights in Egypt, Jordan and the rest.

    Because there aren’t civil rights in those places, it somehow justifies denying civil rights to Arabs in Israel. Brilliant logic.

  68. avatar
    nc1 July 12, 2010 at 2:44 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: OK what is the top problem the US faces? In any poll, relations with the Islamic world is in the top 3 (under the label of “terrorism”). So I think your criticism of Obama’s policy is not well thought out.[Lead by example, Doc. Lead by example.]

    You forgot that the word “terrorism” should not be used in the same sentence with words Islam or Muslim. Another policy of Obama regime – we must not hurt their feelings.

    NASA should not be engaged in an affirmative-action-like program for Muslim countries. Do you really think that jihadists care whether we help their governments’ space programs?

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 12, 2010 at 8:08 am #

    nc1: NASA should not be engaged in an affirmative-action-like program for Muslim countries.

    Now that’s a code word if I ever saw one.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 12, 2010 at 8:51 am #

    nc1: You forgot that the word “terrorism” should not be used in the same sentence with words Islam or Muslim. Another policy of Obama regime – we must not hurt their feelings. NASA should not be engaged in an affirmative-action-like program for Muslim countries. Do you really think that jihadists care whether we help their governments’ space programs?

    In other words you hate people who are different than you. Jihadists may not care but the people themselves in those countries would. Support for jihadists may change in those countries. You seem to forget that the majority of muslims are peaceful and good people. This would be like other countries not reaching out to us because of people like Timothy McVeigh

  71. avatar
    Dave July 12, 2010 at 9:24 am #

    nc1:
    Do you really think that jihadists care whether we help their governments’ space programs?

    Now you’ve really got me baffled — you now want us to guide our policy to be what jihadists want? Not a policy I would have expected of you, and certainly not one I would agree with.

  72. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 12, 2010 at 10:07 am #

    Dave: Now you’ve really got me baffled — you now want us to guide our policy to be what jihadists want? Not a policy I would have expected of you, and certainly not one I would agree with.

    There goes the whole Iraq/Afghanistan war policy. NC1 do you really think the jihadists care if we try to win the hearts and minds of the people of Iraq and Afghanistan?

  73. avatar
    Majority Will July 12, 2010 at 11:03 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    In other words you hate people who are different than you.Jihadists may not care but the people themselves in those countries would.Support for jihadists may change in those countries.You seem to forget that the majority of muslims are peaceful and good people.This would be like other countries not reaching out to us because of people like Timothy McVeigh

    And who knows how many Muslim aerospace engineers and astrophysicists with multiple doctorates are secretly plotting the first suicide bomber on Mars? [end sarcasm]

    Astronaut 1: “Which way is Mecca?”
    Astronaut 2: (Points to a tiny blue dot in the night sky.)

  74. avatar
    Majority Will July 12, 2010 at 11:11 am #

    “Another policy of Obama regime”

    It’s an administration. Not a regime.

    A regime would be an authoritarian government familiar to xenophobes from eastern Europe.

  75. avatar
    sfjeff July 12, 2010 at 12:06 pm #

    “You forgot that the word “terrorism” should not be used in the same sentence with words Islam or Muslim”

    Another silly Conservative semantics reference.

    I don’t recall the IRA being called Catholic Terrorists. We don’t label the KKK Christian Terrorists.

    I have no problem with calling a terrorist who commits violence against citizens in the name of Islam a jihadist or a Muslim terrorist. But at the same time, I have no problem with just calling them terrorists. Because that is the operative word here- cowardly despicable murdering terrorists. But just as the IRA did not represent all Catholics or all Irish, neither does any or all Muslim terrorist groups represent all Muslims.

    The guy who tried to car bomb Times Square doesn’t represent my friend who grew up a Muslim in Fiji.

  76. avatar
    misha July 12, 2010 at 2:05 pm #

    sfjeff: The guy who tried to car bomb Times Square doesn’t represent my friend who grew up a Muslim in Fiji.

    No one calls McVeigh a Christian terrorist, even though he was inspired by Christian Identity. No one calls James Kopp a Christian terrorist, even though he was a fanatical Catholic.

    I have a cousin who is Afro-Judeo, like Reuben Greenberg. She married a fellow from Senegal, who asked her to become a Sufi Muslim. It’s called the 1st Amendment.

  77. avatar
    Jules July 13, 2010 at 6:34 am #

    With all this discussion about Obama and Islam, I would like to quote a statement by Colin Powell that reflected my views exactly:

    “Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.” Well, the correct answer is he is not a Muslim. He’s a Christian; has always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, “What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?”

  78. avatar
    nc1 July 13, 2010 at 9:49 am #

    Jules: With all this discussion about Obama and Islam, I would like to quote a statement by Colin Powell that reflected my views exactly:

    Mr. Powel never found those WMDs in Iraq.

    How does he know whether Obama is a Christian or not? Have they been attending the same church or did he rely on Obama’s word about being one?

  79. avatar
    nc1 July 13, 2010 at 9:57 am #

    sfjeff: “You forgot that the word “terrorism” should not be used in the same sentence with words Islam or Muslim”Another silly Conservative semantics reference. I don’t recall the IRA being called Catholic Terrorists. We don’t label the KKK Christian Terrorists. I have no problem with calling a terrorist who commits violence against citizens in the name of Islam a jihadist or a Muslim terrorist. But at the same time, I have no problem with just calling them terrorists. Because that is the operative word here- cowardly despicable murdering terrorists. But just as the IRA did not represent all Catholics or all Irish, neither does any or all Muslim terrorist groups represent all Muslims. The guy who tried to car bomb Times Square doesn’t represent my friend who grew up a Muslim in Fiji.

    Neither example you used is correct. Muslim terrorists kill in the name of their religion. Their goal is to spread Islam to the rest of the world by any means necessary.

    IRA and KKK have a different motivation – I don’t see either of them being a global force.

  80. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 13, 2010 at 10:05 am #

    nc1: Mr. Powel never found those WMDs in Iraq. How does he know whether Obama is a Christian or not? Have they been attending the same church or did he rely on Obama’s word about being one?

    Mr Powell worked for the state department it wasn’t his duty to find them. He apologized for going along with the flimsy evidence which was contrary to what he said at a conference in february of that year stating Iraq did not have WMDs nor the capability to make them.

  81. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 13, 2010 at 10:06 am #

    nc1: Neither example you used is correct. Muslim terrorists kill in the name of their religion. Their goal is to spread Islam to the rest of the world by any means necessary. IRA and KKK have a different motivation – I don’t see either of them being a global force.

    So do christians. Crusades, abortion clinics, gays. Christian’s goal is to spread christianity around the world and convert everyone.

  82. avatar
    Dave July 13, 2010 at 10:25 am #

    nc1:
    Mr. Powel never found those WMDs in Iraq.How does he know whether Obama is a Christian or not?Have they been attending the same church or did he rely on Obama’s word about being one?

    How do we know Pat Robertson is a Christian? How do we know the Pope is Catholic? This game is fun.

    Maybe instead of this kind of “look, I can disbelieve anything” quibbling, you could address the actual point Powell was making: there is nothing wrong with Muslims.

  83. avatar
    Jules July 13, 2010 at 10:36 am #

    nc1:
    Have they been attending the same church or did he rely on Obama’s word about being one?

    You rather missed the point.

    Powell was not trying to prove the fact of Obama’s Christian faith, but rather was arguing that there should not be any need for Obama or any other candidate to do so. He was stating that whether or not a politician happens to be a Muslim is irrelevant. The very notion of calling someone a Muslim as a smear or responding as if it were a smear suggests wrongly that there is something wrong with being a Muslim. (For this reason, it was not appropriate for Obama to respond to the claims on his “Fight the Smears” web site.)

  84. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 10:37 am #

    nc1: Muslim terrorists kill in the name of their religion. Their goal is to spread Islam to the rest of the world by any means necessary.

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): So do christians. Crusades, abortion clinics, gays. Christian’s goal is to spread christianity around the world and convert everyone.

    NC1: I am Jewish. Jews were better off in the Ottoman Empire, than in Europe: they did not live in fear. I suggest you learn history, before you bang away at your keyboard.

    Here’s something to chew on: if Europeans had lost the Crusades, there would have not been the Holocaust. I tried living in Anchorage. I had so much anti-semitism flung in my face, most of it from Palin’s crowd, I actually called my former employer and asked for my job back, which she graciously did. I packed the car, and drove home to Philly.

    There is no anti-semitism in Taiwan or China; I know, because I’ve been there. Know why? They are Buddhist. No Christianity, no anti-semitism.

    Turkey is in NATO, and they are a Muslim nation. When Jews were expelled from Spain, they were offered refuge in Istanbul.

    Read more.

  85. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 13, 2010 at 10:49 am #

    misha: NC1: I am Jewish. Jews were better off in the Ottoman Empire, than in Europe: they did not live in fear. I suggest you learn history, before you bang away at your keyboard.Here’s something to chew on: if Europeans had lost the Crusades, there would have not been the Holocaust. I tried living in Anchorage. I had so much anti-semitism flung in my face, most of it from Palin’s crowd, I actually called my former employer and asked for my job back, which she graciously did. I packed the car, and drove home to Philly.There is no anti-semitism in Taiwan or China; I know, because I’ve been there. Know why? They are Buddhist. No Christianity, no anti-semitism.Turkey is in NATO, and they are a Muslim nation. When Jews were expelled from Spain, they were offered refuge in Istanbul.Read more.

    NC is low information. During the crusades when the muslims captured the holy city they allowed free worship including the christians. When the christians took over they restricted religion did not give refuge. Muslims were pretty enlightened scienfically. It’s only been during the last 50 years or so that the radical element has taken hold.

  86. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 10:59 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Muslims were pretty enlightened scienfically. It’s only been during the last 50 years or so that the radical element has taken hold.

    The big change came with Khomeini. He ruined Iran, and pulled Islam into the 8th century. He had a willing audience, since the CIA’s actions in 1953.

  87. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 13, 2010 at 11:03 am #

    misha: NC1: I am Jewish. Jews were better off in the Ottoman Empire, than in Europe: they did not live in fear. I suggest you learn history, before you bang away at your keyboard.Here’s something to chew on: if Europeans had lost the Crusades, there would have not been the Holocaust. I tried living in Anchorage. I had so much anti-semitism flung in my face, most of it from Palin’s crowd, I actually called my former employer and asked for my job back, which she graciously did. I packed the car, and drove home to Philly.There is no anti-semitism in Taiwan or China; I know, because I’ve been there. Know why? They are Buddhist. No Christianity, no anti-semitism.Turkey is in NATO, and they are a Muslim nation. When Jews were expelled from Spain, they were offered refuge in Istanbul.Read more.

    I remember reading in college transcripts from various government officials in the US, Britain, including Chamberlain’s cabinet about what to do with the jews, where to send them. No one seemed to want them anywhere and history has been whitewashed with how various european countries treated them before finding out about the holocaust.

  88. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 11:03 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): So do christians. Crusades, abortion clinics, gays. Christian’s goal is to spread christianity around the world and convert everyone.

    When I had a stroke, I was in a coma for a month. I heard everything, but of course could not react.

    I heard, and my wife confirmed this: a missionary came to my bedside, and wanted to baptise me in case I did not wake up. She asked him to leave.

    Jews NEVER do that.

  89. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 11:07 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I remember reading in college transcripts from various government officials in the US, Britain, including Chamberlain’s cabinet about what to do with the jews, where to send them. No one seemed to want them anywhere and history has been whitewashed with how various european countries treated them before finding out about the holocaust.

    The Balfour Declaration was not an act of benevolence. It was an early attempt to rid Europe of those pesky Jews. The British even talked of making Uganda the Jewish homeland.

    It was basically, just go away.

  90. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 13, 2010 at 11:18 am #

    misha: When I had a stroke, I was in a coma for a month. I heard everything, but of course could not react. I heard, and my wife confirmed this: a missionary came to my bedside, and wanted to baptise me in case I did not wake up. She asked him to leave. Jews NEVER do that.

    Was the person morman?

  91. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 13, 2010 at 11:21 am #

    misha: The Balfour Declaration was not an act of benevolence. It was an early attempt to rid Europe of those pesky Jews. The British even talked of making Uganda the Jewish homeland.It was basically, just go away.

    In the end no one was really clean in their sentiments towards Jews at the time. A lot of people nowadays don’t really pay attention or know about the Balfour Declaration. They also seemingly forget the catholic church was complicit. Hitler for the most part was carrying out what the church did to the extreme. His early laws towards jews was reminicient of previous catholic decrees.

  92. avatar
    Sef July 13, 2010 at 11:28 am #

    misha: When I had a stroke, I was in a coma for a month. I heard everything, but of course could not react.

    I heard, and my wife confirmed this: a missionary came to my bedside, and wanted to baptise me in case I did not wake up. She asked him to leave.

    I think that would be enough to make me wake up.

  93. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 13, 2010 at 11:29 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) Muslims were pretty enlightened scienfically. It’s only been during the last 50 years or so that the radical element has taken hold.

    Islam was ruined when the fundamentalists took over. In their golden age Islam stretched from Atlantic to Pacific. They were tolerant and enlightened. Many Muslims to day believe that their lowered economic state is the result of Western imperialism, but the fundamentalism was the real cause. Fundamentalism is the great evil in the world, whether it be Islamic, Christian or Republican.

  94. avatar
    sfjeff July 13, 2010 at 1:28 pm #

    “Neither example you used is correct. Muslim terrorists kill in the name of their religion. Their goal is to spread Islam to the rest of the world by any means necessary. ”

    You have a very limited, and very brief memory of terrorism then. The first memory I have of ‘Muslim Terrorists” was the Munich Olympics. The terrorists there were Muslim, but their objective wasn’t spreading Islam but with the Israel Palestine conflict. Likewise most of the subsequent terrorist instances involved Palestinean terrorists.

    Al Qaeda started in Afghanistan as part of the resistance to the Soviet occupation. I would say that from what i have read, Al Qaeda has much less interest in spreading Islam to the rest of the world than it does with countering Western culture, and intimidating moderate Muslims into following the more radical- and in my opinion- oppressively conservative Sharia doctrine.

    Personally, I think that Obama’s point about not emphasizing the “Muslim” terrorist aspect is that it detracts from properly dealing with terrorist murderers. Are Basque seperatists any less murderers than Al-Qaeda terrorists if they both kill civilians? Identify the seperate terrorist groups and deal with them as specific entities- each with often conflicting aims and goals- rather than lumping them all together as Islamic terrorists and assuming that the Taliban shares the same goals as Al-Qaeda.

  95. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 7:05 pm #

    sfjeff: Al Qaeda started in Afghanistan as part of the resistance to the Soviet occupation. I would say that from what i have read, Al Qaeda has much less interest in spreading Islam to the rest of the world than it does with countering Western culture, and intimidating moderate Muslims into following the more radical- and in my opinion- oppressively conservative Sharia doctrine.

    Don’t forget the Taliban was created and armed by Reagan and the CIA, to drive the Russians out. When the US was bombing the Tora Bora redoubt, they were able to with accuracy, because the CIA built it.

    When I read Reagan approved Stingers for the Afghans, I thought he lost his mind.

  96. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 13, 2010 at 7:18 pm #

    misha: When I read Reagan approved Stingers for the Afghans, I thought he lost his mind.

    Have you watched the movie, Charlie Wilson’s War?

  97. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 13, 2010 at 7:47 pm #

    sfjeff: You have a very limited, and very brief memory of terrorism then. The first memory I have of ‘Muslim Terrorists” was the Munich Olympics.

    I highly commend to your attention the book Fundamentalisms Observed from the Fundamental Project of the University of Chicago, Edited by Martin Marty and Scott Appleby. (Univ. Chicago Press, 1991). Chapters 6-8 cover Islamic fundamentalism.

  98. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 8:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Have you watched the movie, Charlie Wilson’s War?

    Yes, but the president is captain of the ship. When Truman was president, he would not approve CIA action in Iran. When Eisenhower was elected, he gave approval.

    We’re still suffering the results.

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/heroin-addicts-pressure-president-to-stay-course-i,6987/

    and

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/opinion/05iht-edgorbachev.html

  99. avatar
    sfjeff July 13, 2010 at 9:16 pm #

    “Fundamentalisms Observed”

    I will check it out- if I can just get the library page of my local library to open