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Hawaii accedes to birther demands

Birthers have been vocal critics of Hawaii’s so-called “short form” Certification of Live Birth–that it was not a birth certificate but only a “certification.” Well, Hawaii has changed its tune. Birthers win. The computer generated “Certification of Live Birth” is gone. Now Hawaii issues a computer generated Certificate of Live Birth!

I think they also have changed the paper so that it shows folds more easily. Still has that pesky “Date Filed” though.

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102 Responses to Hawaii accedes to birther demands

  1. avatar
    Reality Check July 17, 2010 at 4:24 pm #

    I know this is off topic but DeeLite, a native Hawaiian, has just ordered a new COLB from the State of Hawaii and they have slightly changed the format. A copy is posted at Politijab and here:http://img138.imageshack.us/i/newhawaiicolbfull.jpg/ The most notable change is that the document is now titled “Certificate of Live Birth”. This should explode the myth that there was ever any difference between a birth certificate and a certification. The revision date on the new form is 10-08.

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 17, 2010 at 4:53 pm #

    Thanks, RC. I knew that there was a new form with a new title, adopting the nationally used wording, but I had not seen one.

  3. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 17, 2010 at 4:59 pm #

    Reality Check: This should explode the myth that there was ever any difference between a birth certificate and a certification.

    Why? Because birthers are known for their logic and reason?

  4. avatar
    Jules July 17, 2010 at 5:36 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    Why?Because birthers are known for their logic and reason?

    They will presumably cite the difference in the label of the new certificates and Obama’s 2007 certificate as some sort of evidence that those issued with the word “certification” are not valid proof of birth. Orly Taitz may include a request for a 2010 certificate in her future claims in addition to her request of a certified photocopy of the original long form.

    The heading does not mean all that much. In the UK, birth certificates are headed: “CERTIFIED COPY OF AN ENTRY OF BIRTH”. Someone using the birthers’ premises would argue that such a document is not a birth certificate and is not sufficient to prove any facts about the birth. (Thankfully, the UK does not need to deal with such nonsense in its political discourse, as there is not even a requirement that a Prime Minister be a natural born British citizen. In fact, it is possible for a lawfully resident Commonwealth or Irish citizen who does not hold British citizenship to be elected to Parliament and become Prime Minister.)

  5. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 17, 2010 at 5:51 pm #

    Jules: They will presumably cite the difference in the label of the new certificates and Obama’s 2007 certificate as some sort of evidence that those issued with the word “certification” are not valid proof of birth.

    I’m sure that in the birther narrative the change will somehow be evidence that the version posted on the web is invalid or that there is a coverup of some sort…

  6. avatar
    Reality Check July 17, 2010 at 6:51 pm #

    Doc

    No doubt this is a huge Birther win but horror of horrors if Obama should order another COLB and it should look just like this one.What would they do then?

  7. avatar
    Majority Will July 17, 2010 at 6:52 pm #

    Does this mean the scary dark man in the White House will go away?

  8. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 17, 2010 at 7:01 pm #

    Reality Check: I know this is off topic but DeeLite, a native Hawaiian, has just ordered a new COLB from the State of Hawaii .

    Be careful of the use of “native Hawaiian” – to people like me, who was born in Hawaii, native Hawaiian is used specifically to those who are of Hawaiian descent (we use Kamehameha Schools definition since you have to part Hawaiian to even be eligible to attend). Those born in Hawaii are just citizens of Hawaii or referred to “born in Hawaii”

    Kamehameha Schools Admission Policy FAQ:
    http://www.ksbe.edu/admissions/admissionsQ&A.php

  9. avatar
    AnotherBird July 17, 2010 at 7:49 pm #

    Jules:
    They will presumably cite the difference in the label of the new certificates and Obama’s 2007 certificate as some sort of evidence that those issued with the word “certification” are not valid proof of birth.

    Jules:

    In the UK, birth certificates are headed: “CERTIFIED COPY OF AN ENTRY OF BIRTH”. Someone using the birthers’ premises would argue that such a document is not a birth certificate and is not sufficient to prove any facts about the birth.

    There is no logic with the birthers arguments. They are more concerned with the “what if … maybe” arguments. Of course they will use this a new proof. As with the UK example show all a “birth certificate” is an copy of a birth record held by an agency to who has record the birth.

    I don’t even thing that the document issued in Japan has birth certificate on it, as it is in Japanese. The time a birther uses logic they will no longer be birthers, as they would have accepted that Obama has proved his natural born citizenship.

  10. avatar
    Majority Will July 17, 2010 at 7:53 pm #

    “CERTIFIED COPY OF AN ENTRY OF BIRTH”

    Everyone knows a birth is an exit.

  11. avatar
    nc1 July 17, 2010 at 7:59 pm #

    Hawaiiborn: Be careful of the use of “native Hawaiian” – to people like me, who was born in Hawaii, native Hawaiian is used specifically to those who are of Hawaiian descent (we use Kamehameha Schools definition since you have to part Hawaiian to even be eligible to attend). Those born in Hawaii are just citizens of Hawaii or referred to “born in Hawaii”Kamehameha Schools Admission Policy FAQ:http://www.ksbe.edu/admissions/admissionsQ&A.php

    Could someone help me understand this one – when considering whether someone is a native Hawaiian we must know who the parents are, yet Dr. Conspiracy keeps posting references that only the place of birth determines whether a person is a natural born citizen.

    I see double standards being applied here.

  12. avatar
    SluggoJD July 17, 2010 at 8:04 pm #

    nc1:
    Could someone help me understand this one – when considering whether someone is a native Hawaiian we must know who the parents are, yet Dr. Conspiracy keeps posting references that only the place of birth determines whether a person is a natural born citizen.I see double standards being applied here.

    Cataracts and brain damage don’t mix.

  13. avatar
    Sef July 17, 2010 at 8:06 pm #

    nc1:
    Could someone help me understand this one – when considering whether someone is a native Hawaiian we must know who the parents are, yet Dr. Conspiracy keeps posting references that only the place of birth determines whether a person is a natural born citizen.I see double standards being applied here.

    Native Hawaiian is something akin to “native American” or Amerind. Hawaii has set aside some land which only native Hawaiians are permitted to live on, so they have additional proof requirements for these people. It has NOTHING to do with natural born American Citizenship.

  14. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 17, 2010 at 8:07 pm #

    nc1: Could someone help me understand this one – when considering whether someone is a native Hawaiian we must know who the parents are, yet Dr. Conspiracy keeps posting references that only the place of birth determines whether a person is a natural born citizen.

    Do you really not understand that ‘native Hawaiian’ means the same thing as ‘native American’? You determine someone’s race by the race of their parents, but in determining if a person is a natural born citizen it is sufficient to know that they were born in the US. It’s not a double standard, it’s two different standards for two different groups.

  15. avatar
    Majority Will July 17, 2010 at 8:13 pm #

    SluggoJD:
    Cataracts and brain damage don’t mix.

    Or there are naturalized eastern Europeans trying to undermine U.S. law because of deep seated, destructive, xenophobic hatred. Some people only judge on race. Sad, really.

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 17, 2010 at 8:14 pm #

    nc1: I see double standards being applied here.

    I talk about this in my Birther Defects article, seeing connections when there are none.

  17. avatar
    nc1 July 17, 2010 at 8:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I talk about this in my Birther Defects article, seeing connections when there are none.

    Where did you get the information about different paper being used for COLBs? Has DoH changed a supplier or is it a convenient assumption on your part to justify the invisible fold line/state seal in the first published image of Obama’s COLB?

  18. avatar
    Majority Will July 17, 2010 at 8:37 pm #

    nc1:
    Where did you get the information about different paper being used for COLBs?Has DoH changed a supplier or is it a convenient assumption on your part to justify the invisible fold line/state seal in the first published image of Obama’s COLB?

    WTF cares? Why are you nitpicking such pedantic, inconsequential details? What is wrong with you?

    Your bizarre paranoia is not entertaining. You need help.

  19. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP July 17, 2010 at 8:38 pm #

    Off topic, but:

    No. 10A56
    Title:
    Orly Taitz, Applicant
    v.
    Thomas D. MacDonald, Colonel Garrison Commander, Fort Benning, et al.
    Docketed:
    Lower Ct: United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit
    Case Nos.: (09-15418)

    ~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Jul 8 2010 Application (10A56) for a stay, submitted to Justice Thomas.
    Jul 15 2010 Application (10A56) denied by Justice Thomas.

    ~~Name~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~Address~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~Phone~~~
    Attorneys for Petitioner:
    Orly Taitz 29839 Santa Margarita Pkwy (949) 683-5411
    Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688
    Party name: Orly Taitz

  20. avatar
    SluggoJD July 17, 2010 at 9:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I talk about this in my Birther Defects article, seeing connections when there are none.

    Birther defects – like I said, cataracts and brain damage don’t mix.

    nc1, I’m being nice here – I’m trying to nicely explain why you tell lots of fibs, and go off on irrelevant tangents just so you can post the same words over and over like an arsonist who just can’t get enough ego-stroking mischief.

  21. avatar
    Majority Will July 17, 2010 at 9:14 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Off topic, but:No. 10A56
    Title:
    Orly Taitz, Applicant
    v.
    Thomas D. MacDonald, Colonel Garrison Commander, Fort Benning, et al.
    Docketed:
    Lower Ct:United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit Case Nos.:(09-15418)~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~ProceedingsandOrders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Jul 8 2010 Application (10A56) for a stay, submitted to Justice Thomas.
    Jul 15 2010 Application (10A56) denied by Justice Thomas.~~Name~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Address~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~Phone~~~
    Attorneys for Petitioner:
    Orly Taitz29839 Santa Margarita Pkwy(949) 683-5411
    Rancho Santa Margarita, CA92688
    Party name: Orly Taitz

    I AM FINEEEESHED.

  22. avatar
    Majority Will July 17, 2010 at 9:17 pm #

    SluggoJD:
    Birther defects – like I said, cataracts and brain damage don’t mix.nc1, I’m being nice here – I’m trying to nicely explain why you tell lots of fibs, and go off on irrelevant tangents just so you can post the same words over and over like an arsonist who just can’t get enough ego-stroking mischief.

    Birthers, like other conspiracy idiots, tend to lie because the truth is too painful.

  23. avatar
    aarrgghh July 17, 2010 at 9:32 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Jul 15 2010 Application (10A56) denied by Justice Thomas.

    uh oh … couldn’t see that one coming.

    looks like it’s time to break out the crystal, again — there’s another round of birfer tears about to be served up, since we all know how much they were hoping that the supremes were finally ready to serve up some payback, chicago-style, to the usurper for dissin’ them in his state of the union address:


    “The time is right after all the public upbraiding lies that Obama gave to the Court during his last State of Confusion Address to the joint session of Congress.”


    “Obama definitely pissed in their corn flakes at the State of the Union speech. They aren’t likely to forget it. The recent announcement by Kennedy that he won’t retire while Obama is in office set the tone in that chamber. They aren’t happy.”

  24. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 17, 2010 at 9:42 pm #

    nc1: Where did you get the information about different paper being used for COLBs?

    Apparent there is another birther defect I failed to comment on: the lack of a sense of humor.

  25. avatar
    Rickey July 17, 2010 at 11:35 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Jul 15 2010 Application (10A56) denied by Justice Thomas.

    The fact that Orly can’t even get Clarence Thomas on board really has to hurt!

  26. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 17, 2010 at 11:58 pm #

    Rickey:
    The fact that Orly can’t even get Clarence Thomas on board really has to hurt!

    Maybe she should have given money to his wife’s PAC.

  27. avatar
    nc1 July 18, 2010 at 12:09 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Apparent there is another birther defect I failed to comment on: the lack of a sense of humor.

    The image you posted on top of the page is interesting. If it is a legitimate document it reveals that somebody is hard at work at Hawaii DoH trying to correct errors made last year when they made a decision to issue only COLBs and not the long form versions of the document.

    The most recent Hawaii COLB shows places of birth for both parents.

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/04/25/original-certificate-of-live-birth-from-hawaii-is-different-from-obamas-colb/

  28. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 18, 2010 at 12:39 am #

    nc1:
    The image you posted on top of the page is interesting.If it is a legitimate document

    It is a legitimate document. It’s mines. I stated way back on the newest Polland post that I would get a copy since my 2006 copy is different from the one used by Polland in his video.

    I confirmed that they did indeed change the form in 10/08. Before that, the form is the SAME form that Obama posted on his website that was approved in 11/01

    Here is my 2006 version:
    http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6818/hawaiicolbf.jpg

    — I got this copy 1 month prior moving from Hawaii to the US mainland, so that I could have a copy.

    The difference, now is that they call it a CERTIFICATE and not a CERTIFICATION and the Number and department name has moved places. EVERYTHING else below the SEAL is the same format and layout as the 11/01 form. The paper is still the same; the border is still the same; the stamp they use on the back is still the same. And Alvin T. Onaka still is the Registrar that validated the informatin.

    nc1:
    it reveals that somebody is hard at work at Hawaii DoH trying to correct errors made last year when they made a decision to issue only COLBs and not the long form versions of the document.

    How many times must this be repated to you? Hawaii has NEVER issued long form Certificates and if you try to use Nordyke, THAT isn’t a long form. That is still a short form.

    HAWAII stopped using long forms when they went completely digital in 2001.

    They stopped printing on a long form version in the 70’s. Went to a truncated form in the 80’s and have used the current format since the 90’s.

    nc1:
    The most recent Hawaii COLB shows places of birth for both parents.
    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/04/25/original-certificate-of-live-birth-from-hawaii-is-different-from-obamas-colb/

    Uh, that isn’t even from Hawaii. You’ve been away too long, but that is the FORGED version created by POLLAND. You need to keep up with all the forgeries.

  29. avatar
    richCares July 18, 2010 at 12:50 am #

    nc1, you shouldn’t give links to Post&Fail, it just makes people laught at your gullibility.
    {it is the least reliable news source on the net, slightly below WND)

  30. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 18, 2010 at 12:51 am #

    nc1: http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/04/25/original-certificate-of-live-birth-from-hawaii-is-different-from-obamas-colb/

    Well you also can tell its a forgery (i mistakenly said it was Polland’s one, but It looks to be the same type he was trying to forge for his video, though he could have used this obvious forgery as the basis for his forgery)

    1) father race – is suspect. Caucasian/ Hawaiian? Even my friends COLB doesn’t list caucasian hawaiian as a race (there is no “/” when choosing race. Hawaii doesn’t allow for dual race in that field ). . HIs entry is just Hawaiian. – His father is caucasian, his mother Hawaiian –

    2) the claim that the raised seal isn’t seen on Obama’s and on Fact check’s is ludicrous based on no evidence. and the date bleed is present on my 2006 version, but not on my 2010 version. Date bleed is simply caused by how much ink is used on the stamp. a stamp pad with a reloaded ink cartridge or brand new one, can allow more ink onto the stamp when used. A stamp pad that is often used or is drying out, will not cause as much ink to get on the stamp, so trying to use this reason is just grasping at straws.

    I scanned my 2006 COLB several times using various settings on my scanner to get the Seal to show up. I used my scanner at work which scans to PDf on my 2006 one and then used my home scanner, including setting the scanner to detect it as a photo and not a text document, which is what it was trying to do. That and saving it to a BMP file instead of the native PDF or JPG helped to get details that were hidden in my try to get the 2006’s seals noticed.

    Also, the seal on my 2006 wasn’t as “apparent” when compared to my 2010 one. Meaning that, the person who did my 2006 one, didn’t apply as much pressure with the embossing tool than the person who did on my 2010 version. The emboss is still a manual procedure, and is predicated on how much pressure the person uses to get it to show up.

    So that argument can hit the can.

    Also the SEAL on my 2010 version is in a different place than my 2006 version. The signature stampe on the back with the date is in a different place than my 2006 version.

    So in the end, the records are STILL being handled by human beings.

  31. avatar
    richCares July 18, 2010 at 1:00 am #

    like Hawaiiborn, I am from Hawaii, my alma mater is University of Hawaii, both my daughter’s Hawaiian Birth Certificates resemble Obamas as I am sure Hawaiiborn’s does. THe Post & Fail forgery is common occurance for them, but go ahead and believe if it makes you feel good. When you approach reality you will know the birther issue is over (a waste of time)

    There are others from Hawaii that post here and know this as well.

    Why do you trust those that lie to you?

  32. avatar
    BatGuano July 18, 2010 at 1:08 am #

    nc1:

    The most recent Hawaii COLB shows places of birth for both parents.

    that’s from 1981.

  33. avatar
    BatGuano July 18, 2010 at 1:11 am #

    BatGuano:
    that’s from 1981.

    woops. born in 1981. my mistake.

  34. avatar
    gwen July 18, 2010 at 1:25 am #

    Hmm, my 1955 Hawai’i Certificate of Live Birth lists both the race and place of birth of each of my parents,,,,

  35. avatar
    Lupin July 18, 2010 at 1:41 am #

    I know that you guys keep statistics and there’s no sinister meaning behind it, but in today’s world, I wish they’d get rid of the antiquated and unscientific notion of “race” in official documents like these.

    It really is rubbish — except of course to the birthers.

  36. avatar
    nc1 July 18, 2010 at 2:08 am #

    Hawaiiborn: Well you also can tell its a forgery (i mistakenly said it was Polland’s one, but It looks to be the same type he was trying to forge for his video, though he could have used this obvious forgery as the basis for his forgery)1) father race – is suspect. Caucasian/ Hawaiian? Even my friends COLB doesn’t list caucasian hawaiian as a race (there is no “/” when choosing race. Hawaii doesn’t allow for dual race in that field ). . HIs entry is just Hawaiian. – His father is caucasian, his mother Hawaiian -2) the claim that the raised seal isn’t seen on Obama’s and on Fact check’s is ludicrous based on no evidence. and the date bleed is present on my 2006 version, but not on my 2010 version…

    How do you know that “Caucasian/Hawaiian” is not a valid entry? You are merely speculating about it and using the speculation as a basis for the claim that the image shown at the Post and Email is a forgery.

  37. avatar
    sfjeff July 18, 2010 at 2:12 am #

    as a basis for the claim that the image shown at the Post and Email is a forgery.

    Well using Birther logic, an image of a birth certificate shown in the internet in meaningless. We need to see the original birth certificate…..

  38. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 18, 2010 at 2:57 am #

    nc1:
    How do you know that “Caucasian/Hawaiian” is not a valid entry?You are merely speculating about it and using the speculation as a basis for the claim that the image shown at the Post and Email is a forgery.

    The post and efail is a forgery because of the fact that it fails revision history notification.

    As demonstrated by my copy of the new COLB, the revision date noted on my version is 10/08. And the only changes made were what they called it (Certificate instead of Certification), the placement of the Govt Agency and state, and the Cettificate number. That is the format and layout for the version for the 10/08 form.

    Any new addition would get a new REVISION date, to trace back data correctly. Forms have to stay consistent so that states determine their authenticity. Revisions of forms includes the information and layout of that form, and what information will be provided by that form.

    There is no reason for Hawaii to add more information to a COLB when the 2001 version was adequate enough and met FEDERAL Guidelines and received approval by the Supreme Court.

    So, the post and efail’s version is a FORGERY.

    As with all automation, there would also be no reason why the agency would suddenly add in more information then take it away. That would have been a NIGHTMARE problem for the programmers who had to update the software to pull MORE information from the computer database in order include the “parents place of birth”. This is still a govt run state agency. Why would they in a span of 9 months, change the information provided on the COLB and then do away with the added information. It makes no sense

    The POSt and efail also neglected to post the back of THEIR COLB, noting time and date of when the certificate was created and validated. Something to hide? Only they mention in the article, but offer no proof of what its on the back of it.

    There is ALSO a very big clue as to why its a forgery that I won’t point out, so as to not give away what that is to whoever reads this blog and starts to use that information provided to try and dupe another one. The only thing I’ll say is that it has to do with the layout used by the POSt and efail version, that couldn’t be done unless a big modification was made to the template being used.

  39. avatar
    nc1 July 18, 2010 at 3:25 am #

    richCares: like Hawaiiborn, I am from Hawaii, my alma mater is University of Hawaii, both my daughter’s Hawaiian Birth Certificates resemble Obamas as I am sure Hawaiiborn’s does. THe Post & Fail forgery is common occurance for them, but go ahead and believe if it makes you feel good. When you approach reality you will know the birther issue is over (a waste of time)There are others from Hawaii that post here and know this as well.Why do you trust those that lie to you?

    It should be trivial for you to obtain the most recent version of the COLB and verify whether the DoH changed the form or not.

  40. avatar
    nc1 July 18, 2010 at 3:38 am #

    Hawaiiborn: The post and efail is a forgery because of the fact that it fails revision history notification.As demonstrated by my copy of the new COLB, the revision date noted on my version is 10/08. And the only changes made were what they called it (Certificate instead of Certification), the placement of the Govt Agency and state, and the Cettificate number. That is the format and layout for the version for the 10/08 form.Any new addition would get a new REVISION date, to trace back data correctly. Forms have to stay consistent so that states determine their authenticity. Revisions of forms includes the information and layout of that form, and what information will be provided by that form.There is no reason for Hawaii to add more information to a COLB when the 2001 version was adequate enough and met FEDERAL Guidelines and received approval by the Supreme Court.So, the post and efail’s version is a FORGERY…

    The same logic that you used to discredit the Post&Email can be used to discredit Obama’s COLB.

    Are you aware of the fact that Dr. C claimed that there have been several changes to the COLB form (the one from 2001) without official change of the document revision number. That is how he explained COLBs using different phrase (Filed by Registrar / Accepted by State Registrar) and different date formats on documents indicating the same revision number.

    The Post&Email copy was obtained in April 2010 – when did you obtain your copy of COLB?

  41. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 18, 2010 at 3:43 am #

    nc1 – that is the most recent version – 10/08 was the most recent version of the COLB

    Oh and I found more evidence of forgery on the Post and Efail. Its a combination of the 2006 version and the 2008 version. Polland’s forgery used that forgery in his video.

    Another clue that the P&E version is also a forgery is the line at the bottom (revision date “prima facie evidence” statement HR STatute) — that whole line of text is from the 2006 version. the P&E version of that line on the form, lines up perfectly with my 2006 version. But, the REVISION DATE, of 10/08 is actually an edited revision date from the 2006 version (someone just changed it to 10/08). It lines up with the 2006 revision date placement.

    the 2010 VERSION actually use a larger kerning (the letters are spaced out more) and 1 pixel font bigger than the 2006 version. Also, the numbers 1974438 has been added (not on my 2006 version ). the 2010 version also put the Revision date on the same line as the Prima facie statement, where in teh 2006 version, that date was actually place 2 pixels higher than the statement.

  42. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 18, 2010 at 3:53 am #

    nc1: The same logic that you used to discredit the Post&Email can be used to discredit Obama’s COLB.

    explain. his version is the exact version as my 2006 version. Save for bad scanning that couldn’t pick up the seal on his, (on my 2006 version it took me several tries at scanning to even MAKE the seal appear on the image), the only difference is his information.

    Everything on his version matches my 2006 version, which is the confirmed 2001 layout and format of the Hawaii COLB for years 2001 – 2008

    The Post&Email copy was obtained in April 2010 – when did you obtain your copy of COLB?

    Requested in June 2010 and received exactly 1 month later (July)

    So, you have to explain how a state would spend money to have their programmers change the layout to require the P&E forgery information (changing text is simple, changing the entire layout is a different matter) to include Parent place of birth information (which has nothing to do with NBC since ti doesn’t matter where a person parents are born) then do away with it 2 months later.

    We are talking about a State Agency that recently put the DOH on one of their forced furlough days, for most of 2009 and 2010 due to budget cuts and reduced their work force down to 6 office workers and a few clerks.

  43. avatar
    AnotherBird July 18, 2010 at 3:59 am #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Off topic, but:No. 10A56
    Title:
    Orly Taitz, Applicant
    v.
    Thomas D. MacDonald, Colonel Garrison Commander, Fort Benning, et al.
    Docketed:
    Lower Ct:United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit Case Nos.:(09-15418)~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~ProceedingsandOrders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Jul 8 2010 Application (10A56) for a stay, submitted to Justice Thomas.
    Jul 15 2010 Application (10A56) denied by Justice Thomas.~~Name~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Address~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~Phone~~~
    Attorneys for Petitioner:
    Orly Taitz29839 Santa Margarita Pkwy(949) 683-5411
    Rancho Santa Margarita, CA92688
    Party name: Orly Taitz

    There was never any doubt about this. Now what? Will she launch another appeal based on the recent events?

  44. avatar
    nc1 July 18, 2010 at 4:00 am #

    Hawaiiborn: nc1 – that is the most recent version – 10/08 was the most recent version of the COLBOh and I found more evidence of forgery on the Post and Efail. Its a combination of the 2006 version and the 2008 version. Polland’s forgery used that forgery in his video.Another clue that the P&E version is also a forgery is the line at the bottom (revision date “prima facie evidence” statement HR STatute) — that whole line of text is from the 2006 version. the P&E version of that line on the form, lines up perfectly with my 2006 version. But, the REVISION DATE, of 10/08 is actually an edited revision date from the 2006 version (someone just changed it to 10/08). It lines up with the 2006 revision date placement.the 2010 VERSION actually use a larger kerning (the letters are spaced out more) and 1 pixel font bigger than the 2006 version. Also, the numbers 1974438 has been added (not on my 2006 version ). the 2010 version also put the Revision date on the same line as the Prima facie statement, where in the 2006 version, that date was actually place 2 pixels higher than the statement.

    When did you obtain your latest copy of COLB?

    Is it your document posted on top of this page?

  45. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 18, 2010 at 4:11 am #

    I already stated, I requested it in June and received it just the other day. you can find the full version at Politijab

    BTW, The forgery on P&E made a critical error:

    Alan Paliko Booth was born at 7:55 AM not 7:56 AM as noted on the “p & e” one

  46. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 18, 2010 at 4:15 am #

    BTW, if anyone can produce at least 5 other HAWAII COLB from say November 2008 – January of this year, and after my request (june 2010), I will admit that the P&E one is not a forgery.

    It’s close to being “official”, however too many inconsistencies exist on the P&E one to say that its real.

  47. avatar
    nc1 July 18, 2010 at 4:32 am #

    Hawaiiborn: I already stated, I requested it in June and received it just the other day. you can find the full version at PolitijabBTW, The forgery on P&E made a critical error:Alan Paliko Booth was born at 7:55 AM not 7:56 AM as noted on the “p & e” one

    I could not tell the difference between the 7:55 and 7:56 by looking at the copy posted on p&e. None of the features you previously mentioned as indicators of a forged document can be easily seen on that copy.

    If you had posted a copy on Politijab, you should not have any problem posting it here as well. The comparison would be easier.

  48. avatar
    nc1 July 18, 2010 at 5:06 am #

    Pause the video at 1:47.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDrRJP#p/c/9/JKs5n9G9uGA

    It says that Poliltifact published an article in which they claimed that Okubo had mentioned June 2008 as the date when Obama’s certificate had been requested.

    Yet the date shown on COLB is June 6, 2007.

    The story does not add up.

  49. avatar
    Majority Will July 18, 2010 at 6:05 am #

    nc1: Pause the video at 1:47.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDrRJP#p/c/9/JKs5n9G9uGAIt says that Poliltifact published an article in which they claimed that Okubo had mentioned June 2008 as the date when Obama’s certificate had been requested.Yet the date shown on COLB is June 6, 2007.The story does not add up.

    Smoking gun? No. You don’t add up. You’re chasing shadows and it’s pathetic.

  50. avatar
    Majority Will July 18, 2010 at 6:09 am #

    nc1:
    I could not tell the difference between the 7:55 and 7:56 by looking at the copy posted on p&e. None of the features you previously mentioned as indicators of a forged document can be easily seen on that copy.If you had posted a copy on Politijab, you should not have any problem posting it here as well.The comparison would be easier.

    If you have actual evidence of fraud speak up. Otherwise, STFU. You are a gossipy, nervous nothing wasting people’s time.

  51. avatar
    misha July 18, 2010 at 6:49 am #

    Majority Will: Smoking gun? No. You don’t add up. You’re chasing shadows and it’s pathetic.

    Since when does anything from a conspiracy hobbyist, add up?

    There are people who thrive on garbage. The moon landing, Kennedy, 9/11, and this. Why do educated people, like Lakin, lap up this excrement? Because something went wrong.

    I remember reading about the Bermuda Triangle in a mainstream daily newspaper, while in middle school. So I wrote to the author, asking how I could confirm what he wrote, and had presented as actual events.

    He wrote back that it was meant as entertainment. I was probably the only one who wrote. The majority of readers probably lapped it up.

    John Hagee tells eveyone how much he loves Israel. He regularly tells his congregation that Jews control the world’s monetary supply, and sees no contradiction and is insulted when called an anti-semite.

    It’s a mental illness.

    My grandfather, in whose house I was raised, was a Talmudic scholar. Whenever I came home and repeated an old wive’s tale, or superstition, he and my mother would sharply say, “stop that. There’s a scientific explanation for everything.”

    When I met my wife, she was extremely superstitious – as is common in China. I got her to stop, simply by refusing to go along with her worries.

    I even heard it from an ER physician. My first cat bit me, and made two serious puncture wounds, and I had to go to the ER. The physician gave me a tetanus shot. He then asked me about the cat: “what color is it?” I said all black. He then said, “weren’t you afraid to adopt a black cat?”

    I looked at his name tag, and said “you’re a scientist, and you believe susperstitions?” I then said to him, “you know very well there’s a scientific explanation for everything.”

    “Yeah, I guess you’re right.”

  52. avatar
    Majority Will July 18, 2010 at 7:04 am #

    misha:
    Since when does anything from a conspiracy hobbyist, add up?There are people who thrive on garbage. The moon landing, Kennedy, 9/11, and this. Why do educated people, like Lakin, lap up this excrement? Because something went wrong.I remember reading about the Bermuda Triangle in a mainstream daily newspaper, while in middle school. So I wrote to the author, asking how I could confirm what he wrote, and had presented as actual events.He wrote back that it was meant as entertainment. I was probably the only one who wrote. The majority of readers probably lapped it up.John Hagee tells eveyone how much he loves Israel. He regularly tells his congregation that Jews control the world’s monetary supply, and sees no contradiction and is insulted when called an anti-semite.It’s a mental illness.My grandfather, in whose house I was raised, was a Talmudic scholar. Whenever I came home and repeated an old wive’s tale, or superstition, he and my mother would sharply say, “stop that. There’s a scientific explanation for everything.”When I met my wife, she was extremely superstitious – as is common in China. I got her to stop, simply by refusing to go along with her worries.
    I even heard it from an ER physician. My first cat bit me, and made two serious puncture wounds, and I had to go to the ER. The physician gave me a tetanus shot. He then asked me about the cat: “what color is it?” I said all black. He then said, “weren’t you afraid to adopt a black cat?”I looked at his name tag, and said “you’re a scientist, and you believe susperstitions?” I then said to him, “you know very well there’s a scientific explanation for everything.”“Yeah, I guess you’re right.”

    I’m more of a scientist.

    I then said to him, “you know very well there’s a scientific explanation for everything.”“Yeah, I guess you’re right.”

    That may be a scary moment but when it comes to belief, Occam’s Razor has always worked.

  53. avatar
    ellid July 18, 2010 at 8:47 am #

    nc1:
    Could someone help me understand this one – when considering whether someone is a native Hawaiian we must know who the parents are, yet Dr. Conspiracy keeps posting references that only the place of birth determines whether a person is a natural born citizen.I see double standards being applied here.

    *applauds*

    For once, an argument NC hasn’t recycled from the Washington Independent!

    Too bad it’s ridiculous.

  54. avatar
    ellid July 18, 2010 at 8:49 am #

    Slartibartfast:
    Do you really not understand that native Hawaiian’ means the same thing as native American’?You determine someone’s race by the race of their parents, but in determining if a person is a natural born citizen it is sufficient to know that they were born in the US.It’s not a double standard, it’s two different standards for two different groups.

    You need to understand that NC was not born in America and has trouble with English. Also, NC is a hard core birther who hates Obama down to his DNA and bone marrow, and that nothing, NOTHING anyone says or does will change her mind.

  55. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 18, 2010 at 8:50 am #

    Hawaiiborn: 1) father race – is suspect. Caucasian/ Hawaiian? Even my friends COLB doesn’t list caucasian hawaiian as a race (there is no “/” when choosing race. Hawaii doesn’t allow for dual race in that field ). . HIs entry is just Hawaiian. – His father is caucasian, his mother Hawaiian –

    I would disagree with you on this one point. The national standard birth certificate, which by law Hawaiian birth certificates must follow states that the parents’ race is self reported. While there are likely check boxes for “standard races” there must also an “other (specify)” line and the certificate should show whatever the informant fills in on the worksheet. So if this informant wrote “causasian / hawaiian” then that is what should appear on the certificate. This is the same issue as “African” on the Obama certificate, where African is not a standard race with a check box for it.

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 18, 2010 at 9:03 am #

    nc1: Pause the video at 1:47.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDrRJP#p/c/9/JKs5n9G9uGAIt says that Poliltifact published an article in which they claimed that Okubo had mentioned June 2008 as the date when Obama’s certificate had been requested.Yet the date shown on COLB is June 6, 2007.The story does not add up.

    Either the Politifact story is wrong (which I consider most likely) or Okubo was referring to a separate request for a certificate made in 2008 (which may or may not have been a valid request from Obama) unrelated to the published 2007 Certificate. Okubo would not have known what date was on the back of the form if she had to correlate multiple requests to the published COLB; she would have mentioned the most recent one.

    In either case, it is not a “smoking gun.”

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 18, 2010 at 9:14 am #

    Lupin: I know that you guys keep statistics and there’s no sinister meaning behind it, but in today’s world, I wish they’d get rid of the antiquated and unscientific notion of “race” in official documents like these.

    The reason we record race is to insure that we aren’t discriminating by race. 😉

    But I must agree that it doesn’t belong on a short form birth certificate.

  58. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 18, 2010 at 9:18 am #

    gwen: Hmm, my 1955 Hawai’i Certificate of Live Birth lists both the race and place of birth of each of my parents,,,,

    Does it have both your parents’ ages and/or date of birth? If so, this is probably a reflection of the Hawaii Homelands program needs.

  59. avatar
    misha July 18, 2010 at 9:21 am #

    ellid: Also, NC is a hard core birther who hates Obama down to his DNA and bone marrow, and that nothing, NOTHING anyone says or does will change her mind.

    NC1 and the rest of the Denialists should realize Obama will be re-elected, and Cory Booker will follow.

    Better get used to it.

  60. avatar
    Sef July 18, 2010 at 9:45 am #

    misha:
    NC1 and the rest of the Denialists should realize Obama will be re-elected, and Cory Booker will follow.Better get used to it.

    I wonder the number of brain aneurysms in birthers caused by their excess blood pressure & their ranting & raving. Probably greater than the number in the realist community during the shrub’s 8 years because we have the ability to accept reality.

  61. avatar
    misha July 18, 2010 at 10:00 am #

    Sef: I wonder the number of brain aneurysms in birthers caused by their excess blood pressure & their ranting & raving. Probably greater than the number in the realist community during the shrub’s 8 years because we have the ability to accept reality.

    Yeah, we put up with 8 years of Shrub, someone who was arguably stupid, and made the worst military blunder in US history. I would say Iraq will go down in history like the Light Brigade. When Kucinich agitated for impeachment, he didn’t find many takers. Pelosi said no.

    Remember during his first term, he appeared with bruises all over his face. He claimed he choked on a pretzel. Nonsense, he was drunk.

  62. avatar
    Reality Check July 18, 2010 at 10:11 am #

    Hawaiiborn:
    Be careful of the use of “native Hawaiian” – to people like me, who was born in Hawaii, native Hawaiian is used specifically to those who are of Hawaiian descent (we use Kamehameha Schools definition since you have to part Hawaiian to even be eligible to attend). Those born in Hawaii are just citizens of Hawaii or referred to “born in Hawaii”Kamehameha Schools Admission Policy FAQ:
    http://www.ksbe.edu/admissions/admissionsQ&A.php

    My apology for the inaccuracy. I should have known better since we all learned about the program from Phil Berg’s follies.

  63. avatar
    Mike July 18, 2010 at 10:17 am #

    In the UK, birth certificates are headed: “CERTIFIED COPY OF AN ENTRY OF BIRTH”. Someone using the birthers’ premises would argue that such a document is not a birth certificate and is not sufficient to prove any facts about the birth. (Thankfully, the UK does not need to deal with such nonsense in its political discourse, as there is not even a requirement that a Prime Minister be a natural born British citizen. In fact, it is possible for a lawfully resident Commonwealth or Irish citizen who does not hold British citizenship to be elected to Parliament and become Prime Minister.)

    Andrew Bonar Law was Canadian.

    I’ve recently sent a copy to the Doc for information purposes, but would anyone else be interested in seeing a “long form” UK birth certificate? it’s from a register entry, and the birthers would have a field day with it.

  64. avatar
    Lupin July 18, 2010 at 10:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The reason we record race is to insure that we aren’t discriminating by race. 😉

    But I must agree that it doesn’t belong on a short form birth certificate.

    Thanks to the Civil Rights Movement, nobody wants to be a racist anymore (which is good I suppose), but they deny it by making up their own definitions of racism that conveniently exclude them. Like “I’m not racist because I have a black friend” or “I’m not racist because I support Alan Keyes…” or like yguy, “I’m not racist because I also hate Slick Willie.”

    But since Obama emerged on the political scene, he’s been called a covert Muslim, a welfare thug, a “racist…with a deep-seated hatred of white people or the white culture,” “uppity”, “that boy…” Right wing nuts have sold Obama Waffles, distributed fake food stamps with Obama surrounded by ribs and chicken, depicted as a monkey, a Papuan witch doctor and South Carolina GOP activist Rusty DePass noted that an escaped gorilla was “probably just one of Michelle Obama’s ancestors.”

    Recently,Tom Tancredo opened the Tea Party convention by calling for “literacy tests” and asserted that, “people who could not even spell the word ‘vote’, or say it in English, put a committed socialist ideologue in the White House,”

    What you have here is an eruption of crazy old whitey resentment due to the emergence of the so-called “post-racial society.”

  65. avatar
    Majority Will July 18, 2010 at 10:59 am #

    Recently,Tom Tancredo opened the Tea Party convention by calling for “literacy tests” and asserted that, “people who could not even spell the word ‘vote’, or say it in English, put a committed socialist ideologue in the White House,”

    They must be a “moran.”

    http://fiveisenough.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/moran1.jpg

  66. avatar
    Domokun July 18, 2010 at 11:12 am #

    Majority Will:
    I AM FINEEEESHED.

    NO! Why won’t you let me fineesh! I take to world court now! They let me fineesh. If not there, then god court! Why won’t you let me fineesh???

  67. avatar
    Sef July 18, 2010 at 11:19 am #

    Domokun:
    NO! Why won’t you let me fineesh! I take to world court now! They let me fineesh. If not there, then god court! Why won’t you let me fineesh???

    She was finished before she ever started. She’s just too ignorant to recognize the fact.

  68. avatar
    BlackLion July 18, 2010 at 11:31 am #

    Lupin: Thanks to the Civil Rights Movement, nobody wants to be a racist anymore (which is good I suppose), but they deny it by making up their own definitions of racism that conveniently exclude them. Like “I’m not racist because I have a black friend” or “I’m not racist because I support Alan Keyes…” or like yguy, “I’m not racist because I also hate Slick Willie.”But since Obama emerged on the political scene, he’s been called a covert Muslim, a welfare thug, a “racist…with a deep-seated hatred of white people or the white culture,” “uppity”, “that boy…” Right wing nuts have sold Obama Waffles, distributed fake food stamps with Obama surrounded by ribs and chicken, depicted as a monkey, a Papuan witch doctor and South Carolina GOP activist Rusty DePass noted that an escaped gorilla was “probably just one of Michelle Obama’s ancestors.”Recently,Tom Tancredo opened the Tea Party convention by calling for “literacy tests” and asserted that, “people who could not even spell the word ‘vote’, or say it in English, put a committed socialist ideologue in the White House,” What you have here is an eruption of crazy old whitey resentment due to the emergence of the so-called “post-racial society.”

    Lupin, I couldn’t agree with you more…

  69. avatar
    Lupin July 18, 2010 at 11:44 am #

    BlackLion: Lupin, I couldn’t agree with you more…

    What I find scary or funny (depending on my mood) is this year’s Republican political platform, the short of it being: “You want whitey back in power because that n*** janitor can’t clean up the mess whitey made last time, fine, but it’s gonna cost you.”

    I swear that’s exactly what they’re saying.

  70. avatar
    Majority Will July 18, 2010 at 12:21 pm #

    Lupin:
    What I find scary or funny (depending on my mood) is this year’s Republican political platform, the short of it being: “You want whitey back in power because that n*** janitor can’t clean up the mess whitey made last time, fine, but it’s gonna cost you.”I swear that’s exactly what they’re saying.

    Well said.

  71. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 18, 2010 at 1:03 pm #

    Reality Check:
    My apology for the inaccuracy. I should have known better since we all learned about the program from Phil Berg’s follies.

    No problem. It happens, and unless you grew up in Hawaii, many wouldn’t know the distinction. Just wanted to be sure that there is no confusion, because when I read posts that say someone is a “native Hawaiian”, I immediately think of “I wonder how much percentage Hawaiian they are”.

  72. avatar
    richCares July 18, 2010 at 1:25 pm #

    What’s really amazing is that no matter how often we correct inaccurate or false WND or Post & Fail articles, our favorite trolls still trust and link to these rummies. They accept anything negative about Obama. It must be really accurate that hating Obama cause brain damage how else can you explain them repeatedly trusting fake info.
    .
    note: My niece’s husband is 50% native Hawaiin, her son is enrolled at Kamehameha School Kapālama Campus. His short form COLB was OK.

  73. avatar
    Steve July 18, 2010 at 1:41 pm #

    richCares: What’s really amazing is that no matter how often we correct inaccurate or false WND or Post & Fail articles, our favorite trolls still trust and link to these rummies. They accept anything negative about Obama. It must be really accurate that hating Obama cause brain damage how else can you explain them repeatedly trusting fake info..note: My niece’s husband is 50% native Hawaiin, her son is enrolled at Kamehameha School Kapālama Campus. His short form COLB was OK.

    And Michael Savage says liberalism is a mental disorder…

  74. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 18, 2010 at 1:45 pm #

    richCares: What’s really amazing is that no matter how often we correct inaccurate or false WND or Post & Fail articles, our favorite trolls still trust and link to these rummies. They accept anything negative about Obama. It must be really accurate that hating Obama cause brain damage how else can you explain them repeatedly trusting fake info.

    Just about all of the birthers have what may be the most serious case of confirmation bias I’ve ever seen regarding President Obama. Anything he does is a hate-filled part of his plan to destroy the US – even if it is a policy that the they supported in the past. Likewise, any source that suggests something bad about the president, no matter how inconsequential, irrelevant or ill-informed, is taken as unimpeachable, gospel truth. It’s sad, really.

  75. avatar
    nc1 July 18, 2010 at 3:24 pm #

    Hawaiiborn: No problem. It happens, and unless you grew up in Hawaii, many wouldn’t know the distinction. Just wanted to be sure that there is no confusion, because when I read posts that say someone is a “native Hawaiian”, I immediately think of “I wonder how much percentage Hawaiian they are”.

    Would a child, born in Hawaii to Pacific Islander parents (originally from Guam) be considered a native Hawaiian or not?

  76. avatar
    richCares July 18, 2010 at 3:30 pm #

    nc1 asks ‘Would a child, born in Hawaii to Pacific Islander parents (originally from Guam) be considered a native Hawaiian or not?’
    .
    NO!
    see Native Hawaiians link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Hawaiian
    with each little bit you ask, you can learn (or stay a birther), but don’t ask silly questions.

  77. avatar
    Hawaiiborn July 18, 2010 at 4:32 pm #

    nc1:
    Would a child, born in Hawaii to Pacific Islander parents (originally from Guam) be considered a native Hawaiian or not?

    Only if that one or both parents are part Hawaiian themselves; if not then they are not “native Hawaiians”.

    My good friend is Hawaiian and Chomorro and born on Guam. He was accepted by Kamehameha Schools where he attended from middle through high school

  78. avatar
    AnotherBird July 18, 2010 at 8:38 pm #

    nc1:
    The image you posted on top of the page is interesting.If it is a legitimate document it reveals that somebody is hard at work at Hawaii DoH trying to correct errors made last year when they made a decision to issue only COLBs and not the long form versions of the document.

    Even if the title was created in error, which is wasn’t, you seem to now to accept that the presidents birther certificate is authentic. However, ironic the facts are when people just don’t understand the implications of their statements.

  79. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP July 18, 2010 at 9:52 pm #

    AnotherBird:
    There was never any doubt about this. Now what?Will she launch another appeal based on the recent events?

    Not on my part, Another Bird, but you know how birthers are – they think every one is going to succeed even after two years of every one of them failing. Frankly, I don’t think any of them really think any of them are going to actually succeed at this point, but between the time of initial application and being denied, they realize they have a window of opportunity to spread even more lies and propaganda

  80. avatar
    Shreiking Wombat July 18, 2010 at 10:01 pm #

    I think Hawaii just likes messing with birthers heads.

  81. avatar
    misha July 19, 2010 at 2:00 am #

    nc1: Would a child, born in Hawaii to Pacific Islander parents (originally from Guam) be considered a native Hawaiian or not?

    NC1: you raised a valid point. See my example here.

    Thanks for commenting.

  82. avatar
    Lupin July 19, 2010 at 2:01 am #

    richCares: They accept anything negative about Obama.

    Racists need reaffirmation that their view of the world in which a n*** obviously can’t be president is correct. There has to be a fraud somewhere. (We know how shifty and laze “those people” are after all.) To them, it’s worth all the money they’re paying.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 19, 2010 at 12:18 pm #

    Lupin: Racists need reaffirmation that their view of the world in which a n*** obviously can’t be president is correct. There has to be a fraud somewhere. (We know how shifty and laze “those people” are after all.) To them, it’s worth all the money they’re paying.

    I have been commenting on the citizen site and one thing I noticed is the veiled racism. A person by the name of Qatmom keeps posting about how dumb and stupid she thinks Barrack and Michelle are. Over and over she talks about what she thinks is their stupidity. She then goes on about how a black man with “zero” accomplishments could be president. She also used the phrase token black then claims she’s not racist.

  84. avatar
    Black Lion July 19, 2010 at 12:29 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I have been commenting on the citizen site and one thing I noticed is the veiled racism. A person by the name of Qatmom keeps posting about how dumb and stupid she thinks Barrack and Michelle are. Over and over she talks about what she thinks is their stupidity. She then goes on about how a black man with “zero” accomplishments could be president. She also used the phrase token black then claims she’s not racist.

    Bob, that is definately the truth. As we see the subtle and veiled racism has come to the forefront. If it is not the commentary by the teabaggers, it is the FOX manipulation of the ridiculous “new black panther story” to try and make Obama and the Justice Department seem racist to defend their own racist views. To many Obama is just so sort of an affirmative action hire. They cant fathom that someone of color is intelligent and smart.

  85. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 19, 2010 at 12:43 pm #

    Black Lion: Bob, that is definately the truth. As we see the subtle and veiled racism has come to the forefront. If it is not the commentary by the teabaggers, it is the FOX manipulation of the ridiculous “new black panther story” to try and make Obama and the Justice Department seem racist to defend their own racist views. To many Obama is just so sort of an affirmative action hire. They cant fathom that someone of color is intelligent and smart.

    Yeah that is one of the things I’ve noticed many right wing extremists bring up. Like the ACORN story the NBP has no wings. One of the teabaggers was on face the nation the other night debating with the NAACP president why the NAACP condemns the teaparty racism and not the NBP. The NAACP president clearly points out that the NBP isn’t apart of them while the Tea Party Express and Mark Williams was apart of the Tea Party. I think its kinda racist of the right wing to ask the NAACP to condemn the NBP. It’s like saying hey these black guys are saying this you guys should police them. Nevermind that the NBP is a small fringe group. It was the Bush Justice department that handled the NBP case and recommended the injunction in the first place. The Bush Justice department failed to prosecute and make their case.

  86. avatar
    Black Lion July 19, 2010 at 12:47 pm #

    Good article regarding what we were just discussing…

    http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/60231

    “As I have discussed, and as others have observed, there is plenty of evidence to support the assertion that the Tea Party has nasty strains of bigotry and extremism running through its ranks. But the question of race and the right-wing is bigger than this–it’s not just a question of sign-waving loons at Tea Party rallies (or even some Tea Party leaders). Race baiting and outright racism are firmly ensconced in the American right wing. As Media Matters observes, race baiting is trumpeted by the right’s loudest voices in the media. Race baiting and even outright racism are no stranger to elected Republicans. This shouldn’t be a surprise–as Bob Herbert has put it, “the Republican party has spent the last 40 years insulting, disenfranchising, and otherwise stomping on the interests of black Americans.” The late Republican strategist Lee Atwater explained in 1981 how the Republicans exploited race for political gain: “You start out in 1954 shouting n—er, n—er, n—er…By 1968, you can’t say n—er anymore. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff.”

    Or, in 2010, you say stuff like “the nation’s first black President wasn’t really born in the U.S.–he isn’t “one of us”. Or, “it’s the NAACP and President Obama who are the real racists.”

    Given the Republican party’s history with race over the past 40 years, they have something to prove when it comes to demonstrating they have gotten past exploiting race for political gain. They aren’t meeting their burden of proof. It’s not just that Republicans are proudly standing side by side with the Tea Party. Republicans do a fine job, thanks very much, of exposing their own feelings about race. During the 2008 presidential campaign, Republican congressman Geoff Davis (KY) referred to the then 46 year old candidate Obama as “boy.” Last year, a Republican activist in South Carolina compared Michelle Obama to a gorilla. A Republican staffer to a Tennessee state senator sent around an email depicting President Obama as a “spook”–in a block of portraits of U.S. Presidents, Obama was depicted as a pair of disembodied eyes. A Republican newsletter in California showed candidate Obama surrounded by fried chicken, watermelon, and food stamps.

    These are some blatant examples of racism in the Republican ranks. Sometimes, Republicans are a bit subtler (at least arguably), as when Sen. Vitter or other Republican members of Congress lend credence to the outrageous birther accusations that Obama isn’t a “real” American (whatever could they mean by that? I guess it’s not really all that subtle). Right wing darlings like Rush Limbaugh don’t bother with niceties–Limbaugh has called President Obama an “affirmative action candidate”, and delighted in repeatedly playing the song “Barack the Magic Negro”–though these are just a small sample of Limbaugh’s race baiting, if not outright racism.

    Here are some questions that need to be asked: why does the American right attract so many racists and race baiters? Why don’t elected Republicans denounce racism on the right? Why are Tea Party rallies so non-diverse? Why is the Republican party itself so non-diverse: unless I’m overlooking something, the Republican party hasn’t had an African-American in Congress since J.C. Watts retired in 2002. Race and the Republican party has to be considered in this larger context, and the Republicans face a number of important questions that are begging for answers.”

  87. avatar
    Black Lion July 19, 2010 at 12:54 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Yeah that is one of the things I’ve noticed many right wing extremists bring up. Like the ACORN story the NBP has no wings. One of the teabaggers was on face the nation the other night debating with the NAACP president why the NAACP condemns the teaparty racism and not the NBP. The NAACP president clearly points out that the NBP isn’t apart of them while the Tea Party Express and Mark Williams was apart of the Tea Party. I think its kinda racist of the right wing to ask the NAACP to condemn the NBP. It’s like saying hey these black guys are saying this you guys should police them. Nevermind that the NBP is a small fringe group. It was the Bush Justice department that handled the NBP case and recommended the injunction in the first place. The Bush Justice department failed to prosecute and make their case.

    Agreed…This post from mediamatters sums up the reasoning why FOX and the right are continuing with this issue….

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201007130036

    “In a July 13 blog post, “King Samir Shabazz Should Be 2010’s Willie Horton,” CNN contributor and RedState.com editor-in-chief Erick Erickson wrote of the manufactured scandal over the Justice Department’s handling of the New Black Panther Party case: “Republican candidates nationwide should seize on this issue. The Democrats are giving a pass to radicals who advocate killing white kids in the name of racial justice and who try to block voters from the polls.” Erickson added: “The Democrats will scream racism. Let them. Republicans are not going to pick up significant black support anyway.”

    http://mediamatters.org/research/201007170012

    “Numerous media and political figures, including Fox News contributors and Republicans, have dismissed the Fox-hyped phony scandal surrounding the New Black Panthers Party, with the Republican vice chairwoman of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission even criticizing conservatives on the commission for trying to use the case “to topple the [Obama] administration.” Despite this, Fox News has hyped the manufactured scandal more than 100 times since June 30.”

  88. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 19, 2010 at 1:52 pm #

    Black Lion: Agreed…This post from mediamatters sums up the reasoning why FOX and the right are continuing with this issue….http://mediamatters.org/blog/201007130036“In a July 13 blog post, “King Samir Shabazz Should Be 2010′s Willie Horton,” CNN contributor and RedState.com editor-in-chief Erick Erickson wrote of the manufactured scandal over the Justice Department’s handling of the New Black Panther Party case: “Republican candidates nationwide should seize on this issue. The Democrats are giving a pass to radicals who advocate killing white kids in the name of racial justice and who try to block voters from the polls.” Erickson added: “The Democrats will scream racism. Let them. Republicans are not going to pick up significant black support anyway.”http://mediamatters.org/research/201007170012“Numerous media and political figures, including Fox News contributors and Republicans, have dismissed the Fox-hyped phony scandal surrounding the New Black Panthers Party, with the Republican vice chairwoman of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission even criticizing conservatives on the commission for trying to use the case “to topple the [Obama] administration.” Despite this, Fox News has hyped the manufactured scandal more than 100 times since June 30.”

    Its the same reason they trumpeted the ACORN story over and over again. They know if you hurt people who help minorities like Acorn and the NAACP does, they can carve out entire voter blocks that vote for democrats. The republican party has been about limiting access to voters. The less the turnout the more they are favored. And Erickson is a piece of sh*t there is no kinder way to put it. When is CNN going to fire that pr*ck? Somehow Erickson passes off as a credible commenter after calling a supreme court justice a goat molestor.

  89. avatar
    ellid July 20, 2010 at 8:07 am #

    nc1:
    Would a child, born in Hawaii to Pacific Islander parents (originally from Guam) be considered a native Hawaiian or not?

    No, you blockhead. Only those descended from the ORIGINAL inhabitants of the Hawaiian Islands qualify.

    Have you taken those English lessons yet? Your written English skills certainly haven’t improved since you migrated over here.

  90. avatar
    ellid July 20, 2010 at 8:10 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    I have been commenting on the citizen site and one thing I noticed is the veiled racism.A person by the name of Qatmom keeps posting about how dumb and stupid she thinks Barrack and Michelle are.Over and over she talks about what she thinks is their stupidity.She then goes on about how a black man with “zero” accomplishments could be president.She also used the phrase token black then claims she’s not racist.

    I’m continually amazed at how two people who graduated from Ivy League schools could possibly be considered “stupid.” Yes, there is the occasional legacy who gets in because of family connections, but particularly since the 1970s, acceptance at and graduation from an Ivy League, Little Ivy, or Seven Sisters college is strongly indicative o higher than average intelligence.

  91. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 9:04 am #

    ellid: I’m continually amazed at how two people who graduated from Ivy League schools could possibly be considered “stupid.” Yes, there is the occasional legacy who gets in because of family connections, but particularly since the 1970s, acceptance at and graduation from an Ivy League, Little Ivy, or Seven Sisters college is strongly indicative o higher than average intelligence.

    No No this person is subtly claiming it was all affirmative action

  92. avatar
    Black Lion July 20, 2010 at 9:16 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): No No this person is subtly claiming it was all affirmative action

    Which is standard racist reasoning for why anyone of color acomplishes anything. It is never because they were good enough or talented enough, but because they were a minority and the job/college had to hire/accept them because of affirmative action….

  93. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 10:01 am #

    Black Lion: Which is standard racist reasoning for why anyone of color acomplishes anything. It is never because they were good enough or talented enough, but because they were a minority and the job/college had to hire/accept them because of affirmative action….

    Exactly, but really they’re not really racist

  94. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 10:52 am #

    Black Lion: Which is standard racist reasoning for why anyone of color acomplishes anything. It is never because they were good enough or talented enough, but because they were a minority and the job/college had to hire/accept them because of affirmative action….

    Good lord just look at some of the comments from Qatmom, she’s not a racist… but

    I said:
    Really you want to ask that question? Calling two well educated black people stupid. Saying that a black man didn’t earn what he had. You’ve been disparaging blacks quite a bit.

    Qatmom replies:

    Two individuals. Two individuals who do not represent every black American. Two miserably inept individuals who had their lives handed to them on the greased skids of privilege and affirmative action.

  95. avatar
    Black Lion July 20, 2010 at 11:01 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Good lord just look at some of the comments from Qatmom, she’s not a racist… butI said:Really you want to ask that question? Calling two well educated black people stupid. Saying that a black man didn’t earn what he had. You’ve been disparaging blacks quite a bit.Qatmom replies:Two individuals. Two individuals who do not represent every black American. Two miserably inept individuals who had their lives handed to them on the greased skids of privilege and affirmative action.

    Exactly…2 individuals that graduated from Ivy League colleges and Law schools had their lives “handed” to them because of affirmative action. Hating Obama does make people delusional, but sometimes they don’t even recognize how delusional they have become. Before Michelle Obama, I have never seen such hatred for a first lady as much as the birthers and the others on the right have for her. Someone that according to the birther definition is a born NBC, who attended 2 of the finest schools in the US, is disparaged and demeaned almost on a daily basis. But it is not racial…Really?

  96. avatar
    Black Lion July 20, 2010 at 11:29 am #

    Newsmax Accepts Ad From ‘Pro-White’ Radio Host
    Topic: Newsmax

    James Edwards is the host of the “Political Cesspool” radio show on a Tennessee radio station. Edwards’ website states that “the hallmark of his work on Political Cesspool” is that he delivers “an unapologetically pro-White viewpoint.”

    Edwards’ book, Racism, Schmacism, appears to cover similar territory. The promotion for the book on the” Cesspool” website declares that “James Edwards gets it” — among the others who apparently “get” Edwards are Jerome Corsi and WorldNetDaily’s new birther hero, Tim Adams. — and also that “James isn’t afraid to call a spade a spade” (underlined for emphasis). The promotion continues (emphasis in original):

    When liberals and race hustlers use the word “racist,” it doesn’t have the meaning it used to have — someone filled with hate and animosity for other races.

    No, when when the race hustlers and leftists use the word “racist,” they simply mean “conservative white person.”

    Period.

    Until you get this, you will never understand politics in modern day America.

    And once you do grasp it, you’ll be amazed at how everything suddenly starts making sense.

    In this brilliant (and often hilarious) new book, James Edwards proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that in today’s politically correct climate, “racist” simply means “white person” or “conservative white person.” And “racism” is simply anything a white person does that minorities and leftists don’t approve of.
    Here are some examples of what is claimed to be in the book:

    “Ever get the feeling that white people are damned if we do, and damned if we don’t? You’re not imagining it — James shows how no matter what white people do, it’s called racism — even the exact opposite actions. When white people move out of neighborhoods that are majority black, that’s white flight,’ and it’s racist. And when white people move into neighborhood that are majority black, that’s gentrification, and it’s racist, too.”
    “How public schools help black kids score better on tests than white kids — by banning the white kids from blacks only’ college prep courses.”
    “Now that the Confederate flag has been all but outlawed as a symbol of racist hate,’ guess what the next step is? Yes, going after the Stars & Stripes — an apartment complex in Oregon actually sent a letter to residents saying that anyone who displayed an American flag sticker on their vehicle would have to remove it, or face eviction, because a lot of non-whites live in the complex. Then there’s the white woman in Texas (with a daughter serving in Iraq) who had to remove the American flag in her office because an African immigrant found it offensive.”
    “And, in what may be the most important chapter of the book, you’ll see how conservatives walked right into Eric Holder’s trap after he made his infamous speech calling us (meaning white people) a nation of cowards’ when it comes to race. What was the conservative response? Almost every blogger, pundit and conservative leader said Eric Holder was wrong, and that we all have lots of black and brown friends, our churches are integrated, etc. Which proved, once again, that conservatives just don’t get it. And it was just about the worst response we could’ve come up with. James will tell you how how we should’ve responded, and more importantly, why.”
    Does Newsmax really want to be promoting anything involving James Edwards, let alone accept money to do so?

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

  97. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 11:34 am #

    Black Lion: Exactly…2 individuals that graduated from Ivy League colleges and Law schools had their lives “handed” to them because of affirmative action. Hating Obama does make people delusional, but sometimes they don’t even recognize how delusional they have become. Before Michelle Obama, I have never seen such hatred for a first lady as much as the birthers and the others on the right have for her. Someone that according to the birther definition is a born NBC, who attended 2 of the finest schools in the US, is disparaged and demeaned almost on a daily basis. But it is not racial…Really?

    Exactly its shameful. It is annoying especially when they make fun of her looks, say stuff about her face, etc. How did people get so disrespectful of the first lady? But really its not racism to say that people who earned their degrees and lives after coming from a poor background somehow must have had stuff handed to them. Nevermind that the previous president was the poster child for having stuff handed to him.

  98. avatar
    TRUTH July 20, 2010 at 11:31 pm #

    zzzzzzzzzzzzz wu wu WU! Oh, my bad, I fell asleep. HEY, who changed the wallpaper?

    I’ve just one question, reading the above, is there something wrong with the following, not spelling or grammar, but the act of it?

    …..Edwards’ website states that “the hallmark of his work on Political Cesspool” is that he …..delivers “an unapologetically pro-White viewpoint.” ……………………………………………..

    Really, please tell me, aside from maybe many other things this Edwards man does/says, or your opinion of him, is THAT wrong of him?

    HAPPY day <914 to go.

  99. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 11:52 pm #

    TRUTH: …..Edwards’ website states that “the hallmark of his work on Political Cesspool” is that he …..delivers “an unapologetically pro-White viewpoint.” ……………………………………………..

    Really, please tell me, aside from maybe many other things this Edwards man does/says, or your opinion of him, is THAT wrong of him?

    Certainly most folks value their own group, but someone who is pro-White is probably also anti non-white and that’s the problem. I remember reading on another pro-white web site a remark something like “Obama can do anything only because he’s half white.”

  100. avatar
    misha July 21, 2010 at 12:41 am #

    TRUTH: Edwards’ website states that “the hallmark of his work on Political Cesspool” is that he …..delivers “an unapologetically pro-White viewpoint.”Really, please tell me, aside from maybe many other things this Edwards man does/says, or your opinion of him, is THAT wrong of him?

    Because that crowd is uniformly a bunch of anti-semites, that’s why. See Pat Buchanan.

    Listen, bubbe: Jews are NOT white. We’re Semites, like Arabs – you know, Bedouins, Palestinians, Hashemites…

    You know who proved we’re not white? Hitler.

  101. avatar
    Black Lion July 21, 2010 at 4:07 pm #

    WND Columnists Denounce NAACP, Mum on Mark Williams
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Today’s WorldNetDaily commentary page features no less than four columns — by Dennis Prager, Thomas Sowell, Mychal Massie, and Joseph Farah — parroting the right-wing talking points that the tea party movement is not racist and the NAACP is wrong, if not racist themselves, to claim they are. None of these writers mention the most compelling evidence to date of racism in the tea party movement: Mark Williams.

    In fact, nowhere at WND can you read about Williams, the Tea Party Express spokesman who, on top of his long history of racially charged statements, penned a blog post mocking NAACP Benjamiin Jealous in the form of a letter to Abraham Lincoln asking him to reinstate slavery because all blacks really want are “Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house.” Not even in the WND article quoting Farah challenging the NAACP to “repudiate racism as unequivocally as I have”makes any mention of Williams, even though his racist blog post got him and his Tea Party Express kicked out of the National Tea Party Federation. The fact that other tea partiers felt the need to distance themselves from Williams seems to prove NAACP’s point.

    Note to Farah: Refusing to acknowledge Mark Williams’ racism does not equal a “repudiation” of it.

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

  102. avatar
    Majority Will July 21, 2010 at 6:04 pm #

    Black Lion: WND Columnists Denounce NAACP, Mum on Mark Williams
    Topic: WorldNetDailyToday’s WorldNetDaily commentary page features no less than four columns — by Dennis Prager, Thomas Sowell, Mychal Massie, and Joseph Farah — parroting the right-wing talking points that the tea party movement is not racist and the NAACP is wrong, if not racist themselves, to claim they are. None of these writers mention the most compelling evidence to date of racism in the tea party movement: Mark Williams.In fact, nowhere at WND can you read about Williams, the Tea Party Express spokesman who, on top of his long history of racially charged statements, penned a blog post mocking NAACP Benjamiin Jealous in the form of a letter to Abraham Lincoln asking him to reinstate slavery because all blacks really want are “Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house.” Not even in the WND article quoting Farah challenging the NAACP to “repudiate racism as unequivocally as I have”makes any mention of Williams, even though his racist blog post got him and his Tea Party Express kicked out of the National Tea Party Federation. The fact that other tea partiers felt the need to distance themselves from Williams seems to prove NAACP’s point.
    Note to Farah: Refusing to acknowledge Mark Williams’ racism does not equal a “repudiation” of it.http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

    I’m surprised he didn’t say “refudiate.”

    Palin Says Refudiate Appears in Fictionary
    Calls Critics Incohecent

    WASILLA (The Borowitz Report) – Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin today defended her use of the word “refudiate,” telling her critics, “Look it up in the fictionary.”

    While claiming that “refudiate” is a real word, she reserved her right to make up new words in the future.

    “Everyone makes up words – Shakespeare, George W. Bush, Levi Johnston,” she said. “The only person I know who doesn’t do it is my husband Todd, who doesn’t speak.”

    Gov. Palin also lashed out at those who criticized her use of the word “refudiate,” calling them “incohecent.”

    In a related story, Gov. Palin would defeat President Barack Obama if she ran in 2012, according to a poll published in Mayan Prophecy Weekly.

    borowitzreport.com