Main Menu

Birther movement vanishes in puff of smoke, poll says

According to an online poll taken by the New York Daily News of 20,000 respondents, 95% say that Barack Obama was definitely born in America! Given the margin of error, there may not actually be any birthers left. You really have to give that  Obama credit: all the birthers swept up into FEMA concentration camps and not a soul noticed!

New York Daily News Poll (click for results)

He’s got ’em on the list –” he’s got ’em on the list;
And they’ll none of ’em be missed –” they’ll none of ’em be missed.

The Mikado – Gilbert & Sullivan

Now’s when we start talking about “unscientific.” This poll, like the Pastor Manning Blood of Jesus v Obama jury, relies on volunteers to vote, not a random sample of the community, so this poll, like the polls taken by AOL and the number of people demanding to see Obama’s birth certificate at WorldNetDaily, is equally bogus, unscientific, and easily manipulated. (Unlike the WND petition, however, one person  can’t just keep entering over and over again at the NY Daily News site.)

38 Responses to Birther movement vanishes in puff of smoke, poll says

  1. avatar
    AnotherBird August 19, 2010 at 3:09 am #

    My take on the nontroversy is that it is just un-American. With that said polls are only as reliable as the methodology they used. Even the most scientific polls have been in accurate from time to time. I for one don’t think that the birther movement will be going away soon.

  2. avatar
    or rather August 19, 2010 at 7:21 am #

    the souls that noticed, are now only souls (eww 😉 )

  3. avatar
    - August 19, 2010 at 7:25 am #

    “… WND petition, however, one person can’t just keep entering over and over again”
    wow. a “petition” that was tailor-made for freeper polljackers.

  4. avatar
    Lupin August 19, 2010 at 9:38 am #

    From a classic John Cole post at Balloon Juice :

    John: Hey, Bush is now at 37% approval. I feel much less like Kevin McCarthy screaming in traffic. But I wonder what his base is …
    Tyrone: 27%.
    John: … you said that immediately, and with some authority.
    Tyrone: Obama vs. Alan Keyes. Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Batshit crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgment. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That’s crazy behavior. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population.

  5. avatar
    Rickey August 19, 2010 at 12:22 pm #

    And then there is this:

    Poll: Growing number incorrectly call Obama Muslim
    ALAN FRAM
    From Associated Press
    August 19, 2010 9:52 AM EDT

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans increasingly are convinced — incorrectly — that President Barack Obama is a Muslim, and a growing number are thoroughly confused about his religion.

    Nearly one in five people, or 18 percent, said they think Obama is Muslim, up from the 11 percent who said so in March 2009, according to a poll released Thursday. The proportion who correctly say he is a Christian is down to just 34 percent.

    The largest share of people, 43 percent, said they don’t know his religion, an increase from the 34 percent who said that in early 2009.

    The survey, conducted by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center and its affiliated Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, is based on interviews conducted before the controversy over whether Muslims should be permitted to construct a mosque near the World Trade Center site. Obama has said he believes Muslims have the right to build an Islamic center there, though he’s also said he won’t take a position on whether they should actually build it.

    In a separate poll by Time magazine/ABT SRBI conducted Monday and Tuesday — after Obama’s comments about the mosque — 24 percent said they think he is Muslim, 47 percent said they think he is Christian and 24 percent didn’t know or didn’t respond.

    Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people.

  6. avatar
    Majority Will August 19, 2010 at 12:31 pm #

    Rickey: And then there is this:Poll: Growing number incorrectly call Obama Muslim
    ALAN FRAM
    From Associated Press
    August 19, 2010 9:52 AM EDT
    WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans increasingly are convinced — incorrectly — that President Barack Obama is a Muslim, and a growing number are thoroughly confused about his religion.Nearly one in five people, or 18 percent, said they think Obama is Muslim, up from the 11 percent who said so in March 2009, according to a poll released Thursday. The proportion who correctly say he is a Christian is down to just 34 percent.The largest share of people, 43 percent, said they don’t know his religion, an increase from the 34 percent who said that in early 2009.The survey, conducted by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center and its affiliated Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, is based on interviews conducted before the controversy over whether Muslims should be permitted to construct a mosque near the World Trade Center site. Obama has said he believes Muslims have the right to build an Islamic center there, though he’s also said he won’t take a position on whether they should actually build it.

    In a separate poll by Time magazine/ABT SRBI conducted Monday and Tuesday — after Obama’s comments about the mosque — 24 percent said they think he is Muslim, 47 percent said they think he is Christian and 24 percent didn’t know or didn’t respond.Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people.

    I don’t care if he’s an atheist or worships the Flying Spaghetti Monster (except that would earn him a few geek points). Religion is a personal and private decision between you and Xol, the hamster smuggled into Bolivia who is surreptitiously the supreme power of the universe.

    If you’re going to live my life, make my choices and die my death, then you choose my religion. If not, then STFU.

  7. avatar
    Majority Will August 19, 2010 at 12:32 pm #

    P.S. The above was not directed at Rickey.

  8. avatar
    Ellid August 19, 2010 at 1:43 pm #

    Majority Will:
    I don’t care if he’s an atheist or worships the Flying Spaghetti Monster (except that would earn him a few geek points). Religion is a personal and private decision between you and Xol, the hamster smuggled into Bolivia who is surreptitiously the supreme power of the universe.If you’re going to live my life, make my choices and die my death, then you choose my religion. If not, then STFU.

    IA CTHULU! WE SHALL ALL BE EATEN!!!!!

  9. avatar
    Majority Will August 19, 2010 at 1:47 pm #

    Ellid:
    IA CTHULU!WE SHALL ALL BE EATEN!!!!!

    Love that crafty one!

  10. avatar
    Rickey August 19, 2010 at 3:13 pm #

    Ellid:
    IA CTHULU!WE SHALL ALL BE EATEN!!!!!

    Ha! I belong to another discussion group where all comments about religion are posted in the “Church of Ba’al” topic.

  11. avatar
    Majority Will August 19, 2010 at 3:27 pm #

    Ellid:
    IA CTHULU!WE SHALL ALL BE EATEN!!!!!

    Orly without makeup.

  12. avatar
    MDW August 19, 2010 at 5:04 pm #

    That’s a classic John Rogers post at Kung Fu Monkey, not a classic John Cole post.

  13. avatar
    G August 19, 2010 at 6:23 pm #

    misha: Here’s a complete story:http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2010/0819/Why-do-1-in-5-Americans-think-President-Obama-is-a-Muslim

    Yeah, the bigotry driving birthers seems to be as much driven on religious bigotry as its racial components. Sad that more and more people are A) attacking an entire religion and painting the whole faith as no different than Al-Queda and B) falsely accusing the President of being of that religion. Both are wrong and wrong-headed assumptions.

    Another good article and commentary discussing that poll can be found at:

    http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/08/19/growing_number_say_obama_is_a_muslim.html

    There were some very good points made in the comments over there, which I wanted to share here:

    First Read: “These results don’t many anyone look good — Obama’s political opponents (who have helped spread false information about the president’s religion and birthplace), the press (which obviously hasn’t done its job here, thanks to some outlets even serving as a megaphone by running false equivalency debates), and the American populace (which should be embarrassed).”

    ShmaCantLogin said:

    Normally, I would be up for another round of “How stupid are these people?”, but there are much more important results in these polls to discuss:

    7. Thinking about various religious groups, overall, would you say that you have a very favorable view of the following religions, a somewhat favorable view, or a somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable view of the following religions?

    Muslim:
    Very favorable: 12%
    Somewhat favorable: 32%
    Somewhat unfavorable: 22%
    Very unfavorable: 21%

    No answer/Don’t know: 14%

    10. In general, would you say that most Muslims in the United States are patriotic Americans who believe in American values, or not?

    Are patriotic Americans: 55%
    Are not: 25%
    No answer/Don’t know: 21%

    15. Do you think that a Muslim should be allowed to …Run for President of the United States?

    Yes: 61%
    No: 32%
    No answer/Don’t know: 7%

    The bigotry campaign is altering public perception in a very real way.

    ProfitOverLife said:

    Yes embarrassing. What does it say about a country whose citizens and press are SO STUPID and SO RACIST that they don’t even know the race/religion/nationality of their elected leader?

    THIS IS WHAT THE NEAR-END OF DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM LOOKS LIKE, FOLKS: IGNORANCE.

    Fivecard said:

    Do these people not remember the brouhaha over Reverend Jeremiah Wright? If Obama is Muslim, then how does he have a reverend? This explains how George W. Bush got elected–not once, but twice. It’s the “stupid is as stupid does” phenomenon.

    FreedomFries said:

    I am reminded of Colin Powell’s appearance on Meet the Press weeks before the 08 election:

    “He is not a Muslim, he’s a Christian. He’s always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer’s no, that’s not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, “He’s a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists.” This is not the way we should be doing it in America.”

    FreedomFries said:

    I saw this article also and referenced in the other discussion. You cant reason with the irrational.

    “But just 20 minutes earlier, as Bill Finnegan stood at the microphone, came the meeting’s single moment of hushed silence. Mr. Finnegan said he was a Marine lance corporal, home from Afghanistan, where he had worked as a mediator with warring tribes.

    After the sustained standing ovation that followed his introduction, he turned to the Muslims on the panel: “My question to you is, will you work to form a cohesive bond with the people of this community?” The men said yes.

    Then he turned to the crowd. “And will you work to form a cohesive bond with these people — your new neighbors?”

    The crowd erupted in boos. “No!” someone shouted. ”

    JFive said:

    The title of this piece is: “Growing Number Say Obama is a Muslim”. I would only ask what growing number say that Obama is a Muslim? Growing number of racists? Growing number of dimwits? Growing number of morons? Growing number of simpletons? Growing number of what? Since there is no factual basis whatsoever for holding this point of view I can only conclude that this poll only proves that there are a growing number of dimits, morons, simpletons, and racists in America. Now that is probably correct. Why not ask your sample set a few follow up questions like:

    1. What is your level of educational attainment?
    2. What do you do for a living?
    3. Who wrote the Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin?
    4. Who is buried in Grant’s tomb?
    5. What part of the country are you from?

    Throwing this sort of thing over the transom does no one any useful service. But some simple tests for correlations might shed light.

    MsGracie said:

    I’d like to find out what the pollsters have to say about these questions:
    1. Isn’t freedom of religion a foundation of this country?
    2. Does freedom of religion only apply to christianity?
    3. Is the standard of being a christian only dependent on if you attend weekly church gatherings like Bush or Clinton?
    4. Do we care that many in the rest of the world think we are hypocrites and idiots when we espouse freedom, but only if it is under OUR terms and OUR control?

    kimbutgar said:

    If he was a Muslim how come there are pictures of him eating hot dogs and ribs? Why hasn’t anyone have a picture of him kneeling on prayer rug facing Mecca? Why isn’t he fasting for Ramadan? Anyone that believes he is Muslim are either ignorant or stupid and don’t know anything about Muslims except for what Fox propaganda channel tells them. And they probably never voted for him in the first place so I think this poll is a yawn.

    ikanspelgoode said:
    If the news media did their jobs this would not even be something worth taking a poll for. But since our MSM is more entertainment than news, we need some suspense added to the drama that is the Obama Presidency. IS he a Muslim? Stay tuned and watch everyone speculate even though it’s pretty f-ing easy for us to tell you. WAS he born in Kenya? Etc. I hate this.

  14. avatar
    Frederick N. August 19, 2010 at 11:12 pm #

    Another conspiracy theory factoid, only 40% of American Muslims believe Arab groups carried out the 9/11 attacks.

  15. avatar
    AnotherBird August 19, 2010 at 11:37 pm #

    Frederick N.: Another conspiracy theory factoid, only 40% of American Muslims believe Arab groups carried out the 9/11 attacks.

    I don’t know where that claim came from, but without look at the Pew Research study it is obvious false. There are many Muslim Americans who witness the horror of the evens of 9/11, and felt distaste toward the perpetrators of the crime.

    There are people who push conspiracy theories for political reasons, financial reasons or just for misinformation.

  16. avatar
    Frederick N. August 19, 2010 at 11:45 pm #

    AnotherBird: I don’t know where that claim came from, but without look at the Pew Research study it is obvious false. There are many Muslim Americans who witness the horror of the evens of 9/11, and felt distaste toward the perpetrators of the crime. There are people who push conspiracy theories for political reasons, financial reasons or just for misinformation.

    You have no basis for accusing the Pew Research Center of fabricating their survey results, or to say it is obviously false.

    “There are many Muslim Americans who witness the horror of the evens of 9/11, and felt distaste toward the perpetrators of the crime”

    If by many, you mean 40%, then yes.

  17. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 20, 2010 at 12:55 am #

    You might want to check the study itself.

    Another 32% expressed no opinion on (or refused to say) who carried out the attack. Only about 28% flatly refused to believe that. Furthermore, only 10% of Muslims actually identified who else was responsible for 9/11.

    Furthermore, American Muslims are over twice as likely to say that Arabs attacked 9/11, versus other countries, such as Europe.

    Funny, how you neglect those simple facts.

  18. avatar
    Frederick N. August 20, 2010 at 1:02 am #

    dunstvangeet: You might want to check the study itself.Another 32% expressed no opinion on (or refused to say) who carried out the attack. Only about 28% flatly refused to believe that. Furthermore, only 10% of Muslims actually identified who else was responsible for 9/11.Furthermore, American Muslims are over twice as likely to say that Arabs attacked 9/11, versus other countries, such as Europe.Funny, how you neglect those simple facts.

    I think we can all guess who they think really carried out the attacks. It is true they aren’t as bad as European Muslims. But we are talking about surveys of American conspiracism, and such a degree of conspiratorial thinking on that matter is truly disturbing and dissapointing.

  19. avatar
    G August 20, 2010 at 1:40 am #

    Frederick N.:
    I think we can all guess who they think really carried out the attacks. It is true they aren’t as bad as European Muslims. But we are talking about surveys of American conspiracism, and such a degree of conspiratorial thinking on that matter is truly disturbing and disappointing.

    As is any conspiratorial thinking based in abject denial or ignorance. So yes, it is downright shameful and disappointing to see that percentage of willful denial and cognitive dissonance amongst the Muslims who don’t think Arabs were behind 9/11. Just as it is for all “Truthers” and their similar positions…

    Just as it is shameful and disappointing to see the percentage of Americans who believe in birtherism or that Obama is a Muslim. Just as it is shameful and disappointing to see those that hold utter hostility and denial of simple findings in science. Just as it is shameful and disappointing to see those that constantly talk about the Constitution and the “Founding Fathers” but completely misquote or make claims and stake positions contrary to what either those documents say or their creators said. Just as it is for certain representatives of our government to claim with a straight face that cutting taxes doesn’t conversely add to the deficit…

    …the list can go on and on. So yes, if your point is primarily against conspiracy based denialism, then I’m with you on that.

    If you are trying to make some sort of justification for holding a broad-brush view painting the whole Muslim (or even American Muslim) population as “bad” or “untrustworthy” or “scary”, then we will have to part ways there.

    So, you are correct about the Pew statistic you chose to report on, but it does beg the question on why you seem rather dismissive of the rest of the findings in that article above it, which taken as a whole present a more rounded and nuanced picture.

    Therefore, your post has the effect of coming across as focusing on a negative “scary” part of the report and ignoring the parts that paint the American Muslim’s views in a more positive light as well as reporting on their own challenges and experiences of what it is like for them to live in post 9/11 America, which most lawful and compassionate people would be sympathetic to. So, I’ve included that whole part of the report, with those elements in bold, just for balance and providing the bigger picture context of the survey results:

    Based on data from this survey, along with available Census Bureau data on immigrants’ nativity and nationality, the Pew Research Center estimates the total population of Muslims in the United States at 2.35 million.
    Muslim Americans reject Islamic extremism by larger margins than do Muslim minorities in Western European countries. However, there is somewhat more acceptance of Islamic extremism in some segments of the U.S. Muslim public than others. Fewer native-born African American Muslims than others completely condemn al Qaeda. In addition, younger Muslims in the U.S. are much more likely than older Muslim Americans to say that suicide bombing in the defense of Islam can be at least sometimes justified. Nonetheless, absolute levels of support for Islamic extremism among Muslim Americans are quite low, especially when compared with Muslims around the world.
    A majority of Muslim Americans (53%) say it has become more difficult to be a Muslim in the United States since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Most also believe that the government “singles out” Muslims for increased surveillance and monitoring.
    Relatively few Muslim Americans believe the U.S.-led war on terror is a sincere effort to reduce terrorism, and many doubt that Arabs were responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Just 40% of Muslim Americans say groups of Arabs carried out those attacks.

  20. avatar
    Frederick N. August 20, 2010 at 1:49 am #

    G: “As is any conspiratorial thinking based in abject denial or ignorance”

    Actually it’s much worse than most conspiracies.

    “A majority of Muslim Americans (53%) say it has become more difficult to be a Muslim in the United States since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Most also believe that the government “singles out” Muslims for increased surveillance and monitoring.”

    It’s rational to single them out for increased surveillance, though in many instances where it should be done, such as when boarding airplanes, we don’t actually do that.

  21. avatar
    sfjeff August 20, 2010 at 2:19 am #

    Why is it rational to single out Muslim Americans for increased surveilance?

    I can see singling out Saudi Arabians but why Muslim Americans?

  22. avatar
    AnotherBird August 20, 2010 at 2:28 am #

    Frederick N.: “There are many Muslim Americans who witness the horror of the evens of 9/11, and felt distaste toward the perpetrators of the crime”

    If by many, you mean 40%, then yes.

    That was my mistake however being a skeptic I have to reject the number as 32% don’t know or refused to answer the question. Under that light the number is absolutely meaningless. Additionally their were no “open ended” questions to determine why they believed it.

  23. avatar
    AnotherBird August 20, 2010 at 2:34 am #

    dunstvangeet: Only about 28% flatly refused to believe that.

    And I think that is the important point. Why did they so “no?” It is a sensitive question. It could be because of denial or rejection. It would be interesting to see more detailed analysis of the question asked to those who answered that question.

  24. avatar
    G August 20, 2010 at 2:39 am #

    Frederick N.: Actually it’s much worse than most conspiracies.

    How so? That’s quite a bold statement to just make without explaining yourself.

    While I could quantify and say that Moon Landing Deniers seem to be generally harmless cranks and would therefore fit on a “mild” end of such a “scale” and that any anti-government conspiracy nuts, such as “Truthers” (which this would fall under) and “anti-tax” protesters could potentially be dangerous, I”d put all of these way below virulent birthers and folks clamoring for sedition.

    Frederick N.: It’s rational to single them out for increased surveillance, though in many instances where it should be done, such as when boarding airplanes, we don’t actually do that.

    Are you just irrationally afraid of “Muslims” or something?

    While I understand the argument made for “profiling” under certain circumstances – in the end, reality (and legality) of implementing such a thing is a lot more complex than just these simplistic “surface” arguments appear.

    Are you going to limit your profiling just to foreigners coming to this country and target certain countries as requiring higher standards for getting US Passports, due to some “objective” measure as their being a source of terrorism or hostility towards the US? That is probably about as far as a realistic or legal approach could go.

    If you try to “profile” American citizens, you immediately run into conflict with Constitutional freedoms really quick… If you actually try to think deep enough about how to implement such things, reality quickly shows that the problem isn’t so simple and simplistic notions of a solution quickly fall apart.

  25. avatar
    G August 20, 2010 at 2:40 am #

    AnotherBird: That was my mistake however being a skeptic I have to reject the number as 32% don’t know or refused to answer the question. Under that light the number is absolutely meaningless. Additionally there were no “open ended” questions to determine why they believed it.

    Excellent points and well said.

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 20, 2010 at 3:53 am #

    G: If you try to “profile” American citizens, you immediately run into conflict with Constitutional freedoms really quick… If you actually try to think deep enough about how to implement such things, reality quickly shows that the problem isn’t so simple and simplistic notions of a solution quickly fall apart.

    Heroic Americans have sacrificed their lives for everyone’s liberty. Modern right-wingers are willing to sacrifice everyone’s liberties rather than risk their lives (in extremely unlikely scenarios).

  27. avatar
    AnotherBird August 20, 2010 at 4:08 am #

    AnotherBird:
    That was my mistake however being a skeptic I have to reject the number as 32% don’t know or refused to answer the question. Under that light the number is absolutely meaningless. Additionally their were no “open ended” questions to determine why they believed it.

    “Reject” is a very hash word. It should be disregard. There isn’t enough information to determine if the question was accurate reflection. There are various different ways of asking such a question that can take a more insightful view of the question.

    Image that they had a $50 Incentive “for completed interview with qualified respondent.”

    The question was “Do you believe that groups of Arabs carried out the attacks against the United States on September 11 2001, or don’t you believe this?”

    This question was asked only to those who said “Never justified” to the question “Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are
    justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies.” Based on the filter the 40% represents 78% of the 1050 respondents who completed the survey.

    Just like the New York Daily News survey on one particular question, more information is need from the respondents on this particular question.

  28. avatar
    misha August 20, 2010 at 4:14 am #

    Warning: Muslims are involved in nuclear activities.

  29. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 20, 2010 at 8:05 am #

    Frederick N.: G: “As is any conspiratorial thinking based in abject denial or ignorance”Actually it’s much worse than most conspiracies.“A majority of Muslim Americans (53%) say it has become more difficult to be a Muslim in the United States since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Most also believe that the government “singles out” Muslims for increased surveillance and monitoring.”It’s rational to single them out for increased surveillance, though in many instances where it should be done, such as when boarding airplanes, we don’t actually do that.

    using your standard rational to single out white christian males because of oklahoma city

  30. avatar
    Frederick N. August 20, 2010 at 1:38 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): using your standard rational to single out white christian males because of oklahoma city

    McVeigh was an atheist.

  31. avatar
    Frederick N. August 20, 2010 at 1:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Heroic Americans have sacrificed their lives for everyone’s liberty. Modern right-wingers are willing to sacrifice everyone’s liberties rather than risk their lives (in extremely unlikely scenarios).

    I don’t see how a rational airport screening procedures infringe on liberty.

    For the record, here is Bush in 2000: “there is other forms of racial profiling that goes on in America. Arab Americans are racially profiled in what’s called “secret evidence.” People are stopped. And we’ve got to do something about that. My friend, Senator Spencer Abraham of Michigan, is pushing a law to make sure that, you know, Arab Americans are treated with respect.”

    After being elected, Bush had his transportation secretary Norman Mineta replace the existing system of screening procedures with new ones that wouldn’t “disparately impact” Muslims.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 20, 2010 at 6:51 pm #

    Frederick N.: McVeigh was an atheist.

    McVeigh was agnostic according to authors Lou Michel and Dan Herbeck who interviewed him. McVeigh had some communication with Elohim City, an Christian Identity encampment on the Oklahoma-Arkansas border, and was heavily influenced by the Turner Diaries.

    For a Christian terrorist, a better example would be Paul Hill.

  33. avatar
    G August 20, 2010 at 7:30 pm #

    Frederick N.: I don’t see how a rational airport screening procedures infringe on liberty.

    For the record, here is Bush in 2000: “there is other forms of racial profiling that goes on in America. Arab Americans are racially profiled in what’s called “secret evidence.” People are stopped. And we’ve got to do something about that. My friend, Senator Spencer Abraham of Michigan, is pushing a law to make sure that, you know, Arab Americans are treated with respect.”

    After being elected, Bush had his transportation secretary Norman Mineta replace the existing system of screening procedures with new ones that wouldn’t “disparately impact” Muslims.

    Again, you make statements that sound like mere bumper sticker slogans with no actual real point behind them.

    So, what do you define as “rational airport screening procedures”?

    Your whole link and quote from Bush seems to argue for the exact opposite of what you are arguing for…so you seem to either be contradicting yourself or undermining yourself here.

    Your statements leading to this latest response indicated that you didn’t think that current screening procedures were adequate and therefore additional ones were needed…

    …which you say would be “rational” and not profiling…but then you don’t explain what such new procedures would be or are.

    …then you quote as your support statements from Bush pointing out that existing procedures had problems with profiling and needed to be fixed to NOT impact Muslim’s freedoms…

    So again, I fail to see any coherency in your statements or thought process. Please explain what you mean.

  34. avatar
    Majority Will August 20, 2010 at 7:46 pm #

    G:
    Again, you make statements that sound like mere bumper sticker slogans with no actual real point behind them.So, what do you define as “rational airport screening procedures”?Your whole link and quote from Bush seems to argue for the exact opposite of what you are arguing for…so you seem to either be contradicting yourself or undermining yourself here.Your statements leading to this latest response indicated that you didn’t think that current screening procedures were adequate and therefore additional ones were needed……which you say would be “rational” and not profiling…but then you don’t explain what such new procedures would be or are.…then you quote as your support statements from Bush pointing out that existing procedures had problems with profiling and needed to be fixed to NOT impact Muslim’s freedoms…So again, I fail to see any coherency in your statements or thought process.Please explain what you mean.

    Freddie has repeatedly shown to be incapable of comprehending very simple concepts.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 20, 2010 at 8:10 pm #

    Frederick N.:
    McVeigh was an atheist.

    That’s laughable and revisionist history. You’ve been reading too much WND. McVeigh said he had distanced himself from catholicism not christianity and the one interview from time showed he just didn’t want to talk about his religion. If you bothered to read the Time interview McVeigh stated he believed in God, its kind of hard to be an atheist if you believe in God.

  36. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 20, 2010 at 8:13 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    McVeigh was agnostic according to authors Lou Michel and Dan Herbeck who interviewed him. McVeigh had some communication with Elohim City, an Christian Identity encampment on the Oklahoma-Arkansas border, and was heavily influenced by the Turner Diaries.For a Christian terrorist, a better example would be Paul Hill.

    Actually Doc I wouldn’t exactly place him in the field of being an agnostic. Check out the time interview he did. He specifically said he believed in God

  37. avatar
    Black Lion August 20, 2010 at 11:21 pm #

    Well the GOP and the right are using the so called birther refrain that Obama is a Muslim to attack him now….

    “Following polls showing that an increasing number of Americans wrongly believe President Obama is a Muslim, right-wing media figures have used the opportunity to continue to sow doubts about Obama’s religious convictions.

    Limbaugh: “Obama says he’s a Christian, but where’s the evidence?”

    Beck on Obama: “I think he is a Christian that Christians don’t recognize.”

    Beck: Obama’s comments show “contempt for the Scriptures.”

    Hannity guest Brigitte Gabriel: “I cannot speak on what god he prays to in his private space,” but “all the signs show that he has a very soft spot for the Islamic world.”

    Ace of Spades: “Obama has made no effort to be seen publicly practicing his faith.”

    Confederate Yankee: “Yes, Obama Was a Muslim. … I don’t think he’s a Muslim now, any more than he is a Christian.”

    http://mediamatters.org/research/201008200024