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I too am an American citizen

Dr. Conspiracy

This article is in response to an anonymous person claiming to be a veteran and a US citizen, whose comment was published by Armand C. Hale at the RenewAmerica web site. (Readers may want to read the original first.)

I too am an American citizen and the child of natural born American citizens. Like you, I lead an insular early life, never going far outside my home town, remaining largely ignorant of other places, other religions and other cultures. I was taught that black people (and that wasn’t the word I heard) were lazy, stupid and smelled bad. But unlike you, I got over it.

One of the good things I did learn was integrity, and integrity not only involves telling the truth, but doing the diligence necessary to know what the truth is. Sadly you didn’t do that diligence.

You say that you had to show a certified copy of your birth certificate or passport to get a Federal job. Do you really believe that President Obama’s birth certificate wasn’t shown when he got his passport as a child? Do you honestly believe he didn’t have to show proof of  identity and residence when he applied for a social-security card? President Obama even put a copy of his certified birth certificate on the Internet, the first presidential candidate in history to do so, yet you seem offended because you imagine that President Obama got special treatment. But that’s only in your imagination, and I call such a thing “prejudice.”

In your article you list, or suggest a number of patently false things about President Obama. You demand that Obama be the first president in history to “present to the American public, irrefutable proof of [his] citizenship.”

Only someone who is closing his eyes to the evidence would have any doubts, and only someone deeply prejudiced would demand a higher level of proof from President Obama than from his 43 42 white predecessors.

I would say that I honor you for your military service, but I haven’t seen any irrefutable proof that you ever served.

96 Responses to I too am an American citizen

  1. avatar
    soonergrunt August 15, 2010 at 9:10 pm #

    I would say that I honor you for your military service

    his military service, which he has not proven, means fuck-all to me. I served for 21 years. I’m not impressed by military service, and it damn sure doesn’t entitle one to have any extra weight given to their opinions about anything.

  2. avatar
    Kevin Bellas August 15, 2010 at 9:38 pm #

    I can honor his military service , but the man is a idiot.

  3. avatar
    Sean August 15, 2010 at 11:37 pm #

    A Birther just called me a Ni%&er-lover for presenting facts.

    This veteran guy just proves he hates Obama with everything he has in him. nothing short of Obama’s removal will satisfy him.

  4. avatar
    Mary Brown August 15, 2010 at 11:47 pm #

    You are so right. Only removal will satisfy them.

  5. avatar
    Majority Will August 15, 2010 at 11:49 pm #

    I wouldn’t honor his service. I didn’t honor McVeigh’s service either.

  6. avatar
    Sean August 16, 2010 at 12:12 am #

    Lots of people served in the Military, including me. I will continue to honor the men and women that make personal sacrifice to serve.

    That being said, one’s service shouldn’t be thrown around for the foundation of a personal hate.

  7. avatar
    John Reilly August 16, 2010 at 12:14 am #

    As a retired air force officer (third generation military) I followed the tradition of not questioning civilian authority. I did not vote in any election from the time I entered the academy until I retired after being injured on duty. The first Presidential election I voted in was 2008. Since the electors picked the President and Congress accepted the results, I accept that they did their job in making sure Mr. Obama was qualified. I had my job to do, and the electors and Congress have their job. The idea that someone claiming to be retired Air Force can demand that the President prove anything more than he has already done suggests to me that “American Citizen” learned nothing in his 23 years. When I got into a plane serviced by an African-American mechanic, and followed orders from an African-American ops controller, I never thought to ask those men for prove of their citizenship, or grades in school, or where they had ever traveled. I trusted that the Air Force had done its job in selecting qualified personnel. Since I’m still here, I’d say that system worked.

  8. avatar
    gwen August 16, 2010 at 12:14 am #

    Reading the original post, I was stunned by the lengths he went through to twist the truth into a convenient pretzel. The man is a racist idiot. I looked for a place to respond, but they had none…unsurprisingly.
    What is wrong with having parents who travel to other countries and teach you about other cultures and religions? MY parents did that, thanks to the USN. He should try it sometime, he may learn something about this world.

  9. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP August 16, 2010 at 12:44 am #

    Sean: A Birther just called me a Ni%&er-lover for presenting facts.This veteran guy just proves he hates Obama with everything he has in him. nothing short of Obama’s removal will satisfy him.

    Racists will never drop this issue; in fact, it’s extremely likely that the only birthers left after two years of this nonsense are racists

  10. avatar
    AnotherBird August 16, 2010 at 12:56 am #

    Sean: A Birther just called me a Ni%&er-lover for presenting facts.This veteran guy just proves he hates Obama with everything he has in him. nothing short of Obama’s removal will satisfy him.

    And they continue to claim racism isn’t part of the problem. I wonder how long he held it back for. Well, now you know. Thank you for sharing.

  11. avatar
    G August 16, 2010 at 1:26 am #

    Bravo on your article in response, Dr. C! Well said!

    I have respect for those who serve and have served our country for their dedication, commitment and sacrifice.

    However, I don’t respect when they when they use their service as a cudgel to imply that somehow makes them better than other Americans or that their opinion carries more weight on non-military matters. When you act like this man did and wear your service on your sleeve in order to sling mud, you lose my respect and you dishonor everything the military stands for.

    I can’t fully comment on this man’s motives, because I don’t have enough evidence to go on, but I can say that he obviously has a very small-minded insular view of the world and he IS a bigot simply for viewing anyone who’s been from this country and traveled or lived abroad for awhile as somehow “less” American. That alone is bigotry.

    Well, freedom of speech allows him to rant all he wants and show the world what an ignorant jerk he is. That is all he can really accomplish with his whiny missives.

  12. avatar
    Cathyholtz August 16, 2010 at 1:45 am #

    He sucks at being president and it is NOT because he is a political party or nationality.If he where doing a good job we wouldn’t have the worst economy in History with strong government and weak voice of citizen.Nancy Pelosi sucks too! I did not support Bush either he was as dumb as a rock too!

  13. avatar
    Keith August 16, 2010 at 1:54 am #

    Geeze Louise! Can I get my eyeballs washed after visiting that hatesite you linked?

  14. avatar
    Lupin August 16, 2010 at 1:56 am #

    Kudoes for the every eloquent reply, Dr. C. Couldn’t have put it better myself.

    Racism is an integral root (of not THE root) of the birther mentality. As I have often stated, they are just like cops who only stop black drivers for a variety of real or imagined offenses, and then try to argue they’re not racist.

    I am still waiting for a single birther to show that he contemporaneously involved with various efforts (reasonable or not) to delegitimize Bush or Cheney or question their checkered pasts.

    Since none of them have so far proven that their so-called concerns predated the election of a black man to the presidency, they are all racists.

    And that go triple for the alleged retired military assh*le who wrote that article. (I come from a long and distinguished military family, father, two grandfathers, godfather, uncle, ancestors, so I can attest that there’s just as many of them in the service than out. CATCH-22 is still the best novel about the Military ever written.)

  15. avatar
    Slartibartfast August 16, 2010 at 2:03 am #

    Cathyholtz: He sucks at being president and it is NOT because he isa political party or nationality.If he where doing a good job we wouldn’t have the worst economy in History with strong government and weak voice of citizen.Nancy Pelosi sucks too! I did not support Bush either he was as dumb as a rock too!

    If you think this is the worst economy in history, you should read about the Great Depression and then thank President Obama that we’re not in the Second Great Depression.

  16. avatar
    Cathyholtz August 16, 2010 at 2:37 am #

    I think people try to make it a party or race issue and it is not.It is sad that we can’t find a leader and there is not a worthy person to DO the job to run this country in these difficult times.

  17. avatar
    Keith August 16, 2010 at 3:11 am #

    John Reilly: As a retired air force officer (third generation military) I followed the tradition of not questioning civilian authority.I did not vote in any election from the time I entered the academy until I retired after being injured on duty.The first Presidential election I voted in was 2008.Since the electors picked the President and Congress accepted the results, I accept that they did their job in making sure Mr. Obama was qualified.I had my job to do, and the electors and Congress have their job.The idea that someone claiming to be retired Air Force can demand that the President prove anything more than he has already done suggests to me that“American Citizen” learned nothing in his 23 years.When I got into a plane serviced by an African-American mechanic, and followed orders from an African-American ops controller, I never thought to ask those men for prove of their citizenship, or grades in school, or where they had ever traveled.I trusted that the Air Force had done its job in selecting qualified personnel.Since I’m still here, I’d say that system worked.

    Not being military, I never considered it necessary that military should not have political opinions and express them at the ballot box. Expressing them in any other way than the ballot box, no, but it is reasonable to me, that they should be able to vote like any other citizen. In fact, it occurs to me that their political opinion expressed at the ballot box, while not of any more weight than any other citizen, should be more valued precisely because of the inherent possibility of sacrifice entailed in a military career.

    I can, however, see your point and realize that taking a partisan position, even only for the few hours it takes to cast a vote, could raise the possibility of conflict of interest or uncomfortable, even dangerous, internal conflicts about duty. Especially the higher you go.

    Wasn’t there a Navy guy in ‘The West Wing’ who made it known he had voted for Bartlett’s opponent? That made no difference to the guys in WH, of course, it was a drama and helped create a little tension, but then Bartlett and his WH staff was rather idealized. One does have to learn to suspend disbelief sometimes.

    Thanks for posting.

  18. avatar
    G August 16, 2010 at 3:12 am #

    Cathyholtz: He sucks at being president and it is NOT because he is a political party or nationality.If he where doing a good job we wouldn’t have the worst economy in History with strong government and weak voice of citizen.Nancy Pelosi sucks too! I did not support Bush either he was as dumb as a rock too!

    Cathyholtz: I think people try to make it a party or race issue and it is not.It is sad that we can’t find a leader and there is not a worthy person to DO the job to run this country in these difficult times.

    Cathyholtz – you are certainly entitled to your opinions; just as we are to hold ones that completely differ with yours and your worldview.

    However, this website is not about issues of the President’s policies, so your comments so far are off topic for not only this thread, but this website. If you don’t have anything relevant to add, then please refrain from thread-jacking.

    In terms of your opinions, you really need to work on your arguments too – because they come off as mere emotional and uninformed histrionics, which does nothing but invite ridicule and reduce the weight of your argument.

    For one thing, the “worst economy in History” is just an inaccurate statement. We can call this the “Great Recession”, but it is definitely not comparable to the suffering and impact this country faced during the Great Depression. Second, while you can make an argument about whether or not you think Obama’s handling of the economic recovery could be better, it is laughably inaccurate to attribute a global economic crisis which occurred before he even was elected, must less took office, to him.

    I have absolutely no idea what you mean about “strong government and weak citizen” (I think you also need to work on your grammar to make your points clearer), nor do I see the relevancy to anything on topic here.

    Finally, while you can claim that you personally are not focused on race or party, you cannot make blanket statements claiming that those motivations don’t exist overall and aren’t being pushed. If you think that there aren’t any folks pushing partisan issues or making racist statements, then you are either in denial or extremely naive.

  19. avatar
    SvenMagnussen August 16, 2010 at 6:04 am #

    “Do you honestly believe he didn’t have to show proof of citizenship when he applied for a Social Security card?”

    Doc, Doc, Doc … sigh!

    You don’t have to be a citizen to obtain a Social Security Card. Lolo Soetoro had a Social Security card and he was a Permanent Resident of the US.

    As a matter of fact, Lolo was a Permanent Resident of the US after he completed his college education studies at U of H and returned to Indonesia. His Permanent Resident status was jeopardized when he filed a US tax return (using his Soc Sec Number obtained as a Permanent Resident while receiving an education in the US) indicating he was a Non-resident Alien not living in the US.

    There are a number of pitfalls and mistakes that can easily be made by a Permanent Resident on their way to obtaining US Citizenship. That’s why the US State Department contracts with NGOs (Non-government Organizations) to assist refugees and permanent residents with their legal paperwork.

    If a US passport is solid proof of US Citizenship or even natural born citizenship status, then why does it expire? What you have is a document which states a passport clerk has examined the documents presented by an applicant and the passport clerk accepted it. For all we know, Obama used his Certificate of Naturalization to prove his citizenship.

  20. avatar
    Bovril August 16, 2010 at 6:20 am #

    I served AND I’m a third generation expat brat.

    Does one affect the other, were the lives, to me, of the men under my command I lost somehow “different” because I have lived abroad?

    Does my grief for the loss of others somehow count for less because I was privileged to spend so much of my time out country?

    Is my love of country and those principles it stands for cheaper because I went to a school in a foreign clime?

    Being a man (or woman) under service does not make you inherently a good, bad or indifferent person, it’s the content of your character.

    As far as I am concerned, that bigotted piece of poo isn’t worth peeing on if they were on fire.

  21. avatar
    Bovril August 16, 2010 at 6:24 am #

    Sven,

    You remain an idiot

    Lolo WAS NOT A PERMANENT RESIDENT you cretin, Education in the USA does not confer Green Card status and filling in a tax return incorrectly does not automatically alter status.

    As for the rest of your babble, grow up.

  22. avatar
    Lupin August 16, 2010 at 7:00 am #

    Cathyholtz: He sucks at being president

    So what?

    Even if he does. what has that to do with the issues?

    Plenty of legitimate US presidents sucked too.

    I totally fail to see your point.

  23. avatar
    Lupin August 16, 2010 at 7:01 am #

    SvenMagnussen: If a US passport is solid proof of US Citizenship or even natural born citizenship status, then why does it expire?

    Mojo runs out?

  24. avatar
    ellid August 16, 2010 at 7:32 am #

    Cathyholtz: He sucks at being president and it is NOT because he isa political party or nationality.If he where doing a good job we wouldn’t have the worst economy in History with strong government and weak voice of citizen.Nancy Pelosi sucks too! I did not support Bush either he was as dumb as a rock too!

    And your little rant is relevant to questions of eligibility why? Pray enlighten us unwashed masses, unless of course you’re too busy learning to punctuate….

  25. avatar
    ellid August 16, 2010 at 7:37 am #

    Bovril: I served AND I’m a third generation expat brat.Does one affect the other, were the lives, to me, of the men under my command I lost somehow “different” because I have lived abroad?
    Does my grief for the loss of others somehow count for less because I was privileged to spend so much of my time out country?Is my love of country and those principles it stands for cheaper because I went to a school in a foreign clime?Being a man (or woman) under service does not make you inherently a good, bad or indifferent person, it’s the content of your character.As far as I am concerned, that bigotted piece of poo isn’t worth peeing on if they were on fire.

    President Kennedy’s Air Force liaison, Gen. Godfrey McHugh, spoke English with a noticeable accent because his parents were living in Belgium when he was born. Didn’t make him less of an American citizen, or less broken up when the President he served was shot to death on his watch.

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 16, 2010 at 7:48 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Doc, Doc, Doc … sigh!

    You don’t have to be a citizen to obtain a Social Security Card. Lolo Soetoro had a Social Security card and he was a Permanent Resident of the US.

    That’s true. Do you think he showed his Immigration papers and right to work documentation? You realize that the Department of State already denied all of this.

    Sigh.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 16, 2010 at 8:13 am #

    Lupin: Racism is an integral root (of not THE root) of the birther mentality. As I have often stated, they are just like cops who only stop black drivers for a variety of real or imagined offenses, and then try to argue they’re not racist.

    While I’m perhaps less likely than others to make the accusation, that fellow’s comment reeks of xenophobia.

  28. avatar
    SvenMagnussen August 16, 2010 at 9:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    That’s true. Do you think he showed his Immigration papers and right to work documentation? You realize that the Department of State already denied all of this.Sigh.

    No, Doc. Lolo filed a US Tax Return as a Non-resident Alien while he was living in Indonesia. The IRS notified USCIS of his return and USCIS notified Lolo his US Entry Visa was being canceled because of his filing.

    In meantime, Stanley Ann was writing State Department and asking for a waiver of Lolo’s agreement to return to Indonesia after his education commitment due to hardship. And that is why the State Department investigated and determined BHO II was merely a stepchild of Lolo and there was not a hardship created by Lolo living in Indonesia.

    If you were allowed complete access to Lolo’s USCIS files, then you would realize Lolo informed USCIS he was adopting BHO II as his son and it was a hardship for him to not be there for him. Unfortunately, the adoption process was not completed. Consequently, in the eyes of the law, BHO II was Lolo’s stepchild until the adoption was completed in 1969.

    It was in Hawaii, 1969, Stanley Ann, Barry Soetoro, Lolo Soetoro and a half-sister named Holiyah “Lia” Soetoro Sobah returned to Honolulu, Hawaii to complete the adoption.

    By 1971, Barry Soetoro, returned again to Honolulu, HI. This time he returned to appear in an Hawaii District to see his paternal parent, Barack Hussein Obama, object to the Soetoro adoption and have it annulled. Shortly after this, Barry Soetoro was renamed Barack Hussein Obama II and a new COLB was created by the HDoH to indicate Barack Hussein Obama is the father of Barack Hussein Obama II.

  29. avatar
    Scientist August 16, 2010 at 10:06 am #

    SvenMagnussen: By 1971, Barry Soetoro, returned again to Honolulu, HI. This time he returned to appear in an Hawaii District to see his paternal parent, Barack Hussein Obama, object to the Soetoro adoption and have it annulled. Shortly after this, Barry Soetoro was renamed Barack Hussein Obama II and a new COLB was created by the HDoH to indicate Barack Hussein Obama is the father of Barack Hussein Obama II.

    if a court rules something, then for all legal purposes it becomes so. in your fictional example, in effect, the court would be ruling that person is a natural born citizen. If you wish to make political matters into legal matters, the sword cuts both ways.

  30. avatar
    Ellid August 16, 2010 at 10:07 am #

    SvenMagnussen:
    No, Doc. Lolo filed a US Tax Return as a Non-resident Alien while he was living in Indonesia. The IRS notified USCIS of his return and USCIS notified Lolo his US Entry Visa was being canceled because of his filing.In meantime, Stanley Ann was writing State Department and asking for a waiver of Lolo’s agreement to return to Indonesia after his education commitment due to hardship. And that is why the State Department investigated and determined BHO II was merely a stepchild of Lolo and there was not a hardship created by Lolo living in Indonesia.If you were allowed complete access to Lolo’s USCIS files, then you would realize Lolo informed USCIS he was adopting BHO II as his son and it was a hardship for him to not be there for him. Unfortunately, the adoption process was not completed. Consequently, in the eyes of the law, BHO II was Lolo’s stepchild until the adoption was completed in 1969.
    It was in Hawaii, 1969, Stanley Ann, Barry Soetoro, Lolo Soetoro and a half-sister named Holiyah “Lia” Soetoro Sobah returned to Honolulu, Hawaii to complete the adoption.By 1971, Barry Soetoro, returned again to Honolulu, HI. This time he returned to appear in an Hawaii District to see his paternal parent, Barack Hussein Obama, object to the Soetoro adoption and have it annulled. Shortly after this, Barry Soetoro was renamed Barack Hussein Obama II and a new COLB was created by the HDoH to indicate Barack Hussein Obama is the father of Barack Hussein Obama II.

    Your scenario is utterly unsupported by facts. Are you unable to read, or is it simply that you’re so blinded by hatred for the President that you didn’t notice the plain and unequivocal statement that Stanley Dunham’s son was an American citizen, born in Honolulu? Or that there is not one scrap of evidence anywhere, at any time, stating that the President was adopted?

    Disgusting. Didn’t your parents teach you not to lie?

  31. avatar
    Arthur August 16, 2010 at 10:33 am #

    Ellid:
    .Didn’t your parents teach you not to lie?

    Didn’t somebody once say, “I would remind you that lying in the defense of personal prejudice and ignorance is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of Obama is no virtue” Maybe that was Sven’s dad or something?

  32. avatar
    Kevin Bell August 16, 2010 at 10:36 am #

    Great! You quoting the most misleading site on the Internet “WND”. This half-sister is fraud. She has been debunked by Pres. Obama’s sister and other family member who state they have no idea who she is.

    Quoting WND is like Quoting a Drunk Frat Boy during Rush week. It just won’t stand the test of time.

  33. avatar
    richCares August 16, 2010 at 10:37 am #

    only the reality challenged are birthers, sven doesn’t believe the pupu he spouts, he is merely looking to convert the reality challenged or the retarded. None here sven, go away.

  34. avatar
    Rickey August 16, 2010 at 10:39 am #

    SvenMagnussen: If a US passport is solid proof of US Citizenship or even natural born citizenship status, then why does it expire?

    Passports expire primarily for several reasons.

    1. People who get out of their parents’ basement once in a while and travel overseas find that the pages of their passports eventually get filled with exit and entry stamps.

    2. A person’s appearance changes as he or she ages. Therefore, passport photos need to updated periodically.

    3. People die eventually. Having expiration dates ensures that the passports of deceased people eventually expire with them.

  35. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny August 16, 2010 at 11:07 am #

    ellid: President Kennedy’s Air Force liaison, Gen. Godfrey McHugh, spoke English with a noticeable accent because his parents were living in Belgium when he was born. Didn’t make him less of an American citizen, or less broken up when the President he served was shot to death on his watch.

    What’s in an accent? I can still remember a student of Liverpool University who did his Erasmus year with us in Ghent remarking at the end of his stay how he now knew who among British actors should play Hercule Poirot. Many Belgians know or think they know English, so there definitely is a Belgian English accent. Whom did the student pick as having the perfect Belgian accent? Tom Conti. I suppose many Americans probably think he’s got a Scottish accent.

  36. avatar
    Marc August 16, 2010 at 11:14 am #

    OT: from AP
    The Supreme Court has upheld a $20,000 fine against a leader of the movement challenging President Barack Obama’s citizenship.

  37. avatar
    richCares August 16, 2010 at 11:44 am #

    “The Supreme Court has upheld a $20,000 fine”
    .
    The application for stay addressed to Justice Alito and
    referred to the Court is denied.
    .
    link: http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/081610zr.pdf

  38. avatar
    Sef August 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm #

    richCares: “The Supreme Court has upheld a $20,000 fine”
    .
    The application for stay addressed to Justice Alito and
    referred to the Court is denied.
    .
    link: http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/081610zr.pdf

    Interestingly, & this will be shouted from the rooftops by the birthers, there is no mention in the 10A56 denial that Justice Kagan took no part in the decision as is mentioned in others.

  39. avatar
    Lupin August 16, 2010 at 12:23 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: If you were allowed complete access to Lolo’s USCIS files, then you would realize Lolo informed USCIS he was adopting BHO II as his son and it was a hardship for him to not be there for him. Unfortunately, the adoption process was not completed. Consequently, in the eyes of the law, BHO II was Lolo’s stepchild until the adoption was completed in 1969.

    …Meanwhile, on Planet Remulak…

  40. avatar
    Lupin August 16, 2010 at 12:26 pm #

    richCares: only the reality challenged are birthers, sven doesn’t believe the pupu he spouts, he is merely looking to convert the reality challenged or the retarded. None here sven, go away.

    As I often say, his brain is wired so that he cannot accept the reality of a black president. It does not compute. He’s like a robot gone amok.

  41. avatar
    Sef August 16, 2010 at 12:33 pm #

    Lupin:
    As I often say, his brain is wired so that he cannot accept the reality of a black president. It does not compute. He’s like a robot gone amok.

    In addition to the “race thing” another thing they cannot comprehend, especially after the previous administration, is someone with the ability to multitask. This has also caught Congress off-guard & they have been asked to actually work for a change.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 16, 2010 at 1:38 pm #

    Expired passports:

    While not valid for travel, expired passports ARE proof of citizenship.

  43. avatar
    Dave August 16, 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    Marc: OT: from AP
    The Supreme Court has upheld a $20,000 fine against a leader of the movement challenging President Barack Obama’s citizenship.

    As usual, the AP getting things almost right. Taitz’s stay application was denied. Denying a stay is not upholding the sanction. That will happen when her cert petition is denied. Except it’s looking likely that her cert petition is late, in which case the sanction is upheld without action of the Supremes.

  44. avatar
    Rickey August 16, 2010 at 2:16 pm #

    From Talking Points Memo, evidence that Orly’s delusions still persist:

    So-called “Birther Queen” Orly Taitz hadn’t yet heard about the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold a $20,000 fine against her when TPMMuckraker reached her on Monday.

    But Taitz told TPMMuckraker she is convinced that none of the members of the court read her request, and that clerks made the decision for the justices. She cited a passage from a book co-authored by Justice Antonin Scalia in which, she claimed, Scalia said that less than one percent of cases are not read by a judge.

    “It was never seen by Justice [Clarence] Thomas, there’s not evidence it was seen by Justice Thomas,” Taitz said. “I don’t believe the Justices read a word of the pleadings.” She said she wanted to see the original court document with the signature of a member of the court.

    A federal judge’s October 2009 ruling required Taitz, a lawyer and dentist who has filed several suits claiming President Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen, to pay the fine for filing “frivolous” litigation. Taitz was attempting to misuse the federal court system to push her political agenda, the judge said.

    Taitz said after Thomas denied her motion, she went to Justice Samuel Alito because he reportedly has his own clerks read the briefs, which he said made him more independent. Alito, claimed Taitz, was also the only member of the court who did not attend a meeting with Obama a few days before his inauguration. She found the meeting inappropriate because she had an open court case involving Obama at the time.

    “That’s a clear conflict of interest, that’s lack of impartiality, and Alito was the only justice who didn’t attend this meeting,” Taitz said. “Thousands of people have written to the Supreme Court that this is totally improper.”

    Alito’s decision to refer the case to the full court is standard practice, as renewed applications are referred to the full Court to avoid prolonging the procedure, according to Supreme Court experts.

    Taitz said reports that there was a lien on her house were untrue, and that she would be able to cover the $20,000 fine with donations from her supporters. “I have means to pay, the public is collecting funds,” Taitz said. She said she received $3,500 in four or five days. “Within a month, I will have the $20,000,” Taitz said. “Most of them are contributing maybe $20, $25 dollars, there’s a lot of support.”

    Taitz didn’t see the decision as a setback, claiming the movement is building steam. “According to the latest CNN poll, 6 out of 10 American Citizens doubt Obama is legitimate. How can he continue leading the country with such a record of report?” Taitz said.

    As she did last year, Taitz on Monday once again compared herself to Nelson Mandela. “Nelson Mandela was in prison for years, he went against the regime, but ultimately he prevailed,” Taitz said. The fine, said Taitz, “was means of intimidation and harassment.”

    She vowed to fight what she said amounted to “a slap in the face of each and every American citizen.”

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/supreme_court_tells_birther_queen_orly_taitz_to_pa.php?ref=fpb

  45. avatar
    Scientist August 16, 2010 at 2:42 pm #

    So what if the judges didn’t read it and delegated this legal taking out the trash to their clerks? Don’t tell anyone, but members of Congress don’t write bills themseleves either, but they’re still the law.

  46. avatar
    sfjeff August 16, 2010 at 3:39 pm #

    ““Nelson Mandela was in prison for years, he went against the regime, but ultimately he prevailed,” Taitz said. The fine, said Taitz, “was means of intimidation and harassment.””

    i think that Orly should emulate Mandela, and refuse to pay the fine and go to prison for years. That would show Obama!

  47. avatar
    Majority Will August 16, 2010 at 4:12 pm #

    sfjeff: ““Nelson Mandela was in prison for years, he went against the regime, but ultimately he prevailed,” Taitz said. The fine, said Taitz, “was means of intimidation and harassment.””i think that Orly should emulate Mandela, and refuse to pay the fine and go to prison for years. That would show Obama!

    I’m sure ADX Florence can accommodate her.

  48. avatar
    SvenMagnussen August 16, 2010 at 4:27 pm #

    Bovril: Sven,You remain an idiotLolo WAS NOT A PERMANENT RESIDENT you cretin, Education in the USA does not confer Green Card status and filling in a tax return incorrectly does not automatically alter status.As for the rest of your babble, grow up.

    You disappoint me, Drivel. You’re not doing your homework.

    Lolo worked for an Hawaii engineering firm for one year after he completed his studies at U of H. And that, my friend, requires a green card. We know he had a green card because his schedule to return to Indonesia was extended and authorized.

    I thought many of you were blinded by your love of Obama or your hatred of Amercia. Now, I’m starting to think some of you are really stupid.

  49. avatar
    richCares August 16, 2010 at 4:45 pm #

    I thought many of you were blinded by your love of Obama or your hatred of Amercia. Now, I’m starting to think some of you are really stupid.
    .
    this is the winner of the “Orly Irony Award” for 2010, congrats sven. On a scale of 1 to 100, it reaches 130!

  50. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 16, 2010 at 4:51 pm #

    Sef: , there is no mention in the 10A56 denial that Justice Kagan took no part in the decision as is mentioned in others.

    Kagan has to recuse herself from consideration of any case in which the US Attorney General’s office was involved while she was Solicitor General — so I’m sure that if you were to look at the pleadings in the cases you will see they all fit that pattern.

  51. avatar
    Dave August 16, 2010 at 4:52 pm #

    SvenMagnussen:
    Lolo worked for an Hawaii engineering firm for one year after he completed his studies at U of H. And that, my friend, requires a green card. We know he had a green card because his schedule to return to Indonesia was extended and authorized.

    From reading your posts I can’t figure out what you think is interesting about whether Lolo Soetero did or did not have a green card — but the above argument that he did makes no sense.

    Having a job here does not require a green card. Studying at a university does not require a green card. And having your return schedule “extended and authorized” almost certainly implies that he did not have a green card, because permanent residents obviously do not need any approval to extend their stay as along as they like.

  52. avatar
    sfjeff August 16, 2010 at 5:13 pm #

    And just to drive home the point, I have known dozens, maybe 100’s of people who have worked legally in the United States without Green Cards. A J-1 Visa is the first one to pop to mind, but I know there are others.

  53. avatar
    richCares August 16, 2010 at 5:15 pm #

    because permanent residents obviously do not need any approval to extend their stay as along as they like.
    .
    the dummy doesn’t know why green cards are issued,nor why “approval to extend their stay” is not related to green card holders. Sven simulates intelligence in a maneer that proves he has none.

  54. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 16, 2010 at 5:17 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: You disappoint me, Drivel. You’re not doing your homework.Lolo worked for an Hawaii engineering firm for one year after he completed his studies at U of H. And that, my friend, requires a green card. We know he had a green card because his schedule to return to Indonesia was extended and authorized.I thought many of you were blinded by your love of Obama or your hatred of Amercia. Now, I’m starting to think some of you are really stupid.

    That’s entirely incorrect. You do not need a green card to work in this country. Green cards are more for permenant residence. H1B H2B visas come to mind

  55. avatar
    richCares August 16, 2010 at 5:28 pm #

    I met my wife at University of Hawaii, while attending she worked part time at a theater. She did not have nor need a green card till we got married. But, hey sven is always wrong. Let’s all laugh at sven!

  56. avatar
    mrnopants August 16, 2010 at 5:42 pm #

    …….Sven and the rest should all get rectal cancer…….did I say that out loud?

    yes, i’m willing to stoop. screw em all who are undermining our country and dividing us for reasons that are truly ‘unamerican’

    ‘Patriots’ they are not, but sitting in their basement roll playing a game that should have serious consequences for them…….we know how far they are willing to go to get their way…….how far are we willing to go to stop them?

  57. avatar
    thisoldhippie August 16, 2010 at 6:33 pm #

    Speaking of Orly Taitz:

    Here is an email that I sent to her about her encouraging her followers to intimidate Muslims at the proposed cultural center in Manhatten by using pigs/pig’s blood, etc. and her very professional, very legal sounding reply.

    — On Mon, 8/16/10, Kaci Jay wrote:

    From: Kaci Jay
    Subject: Posting statements re: pigs
    To: “orly”
    Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 2:15 PM

    How can you advocate something that is as much a terroristic threat as painting a swastika on a Jewish family’s home or burning a cross in the yard of a black family? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. You scream that you are a constitional attorney and then post something like this on your website which is a violation of one groups’ right to freedom of religion. As much as the conservatives, tea partiers, “constitutionalists” yell that they are defending the American Way and the Constitution, all of them – and especially you – then do everything that you can to deny others freedom if it is something you don’t like or agree with. The “majority” of the American people didn’t want civil rights, or interracial marriages, but the Consitution won and the rights of Americans were upheld. Jews were not wanted or accepted in America, or many other places for that matter, which is why they stood by African Americans in their struggle for civil rights. But as a Jew you should realize that being in America means your right to practice your religion is protected. This goes for Muslims as well, or pagans, or any other religion in this country. I would stand by you – or anyone else – and fight for your right to practice your religion in any city, on any plot of land that you owned. Yet, you encourage your “followers” to terrorize a particular religious group because you don’t like it.

    how dumb are you?
    there is a big difference between Jews, who didn’t murder anybody and Islam. after 3,000 Americans were slaughtered in 9/11, to put a Codova mosque right by 9/11 is to pee in your face and ask for some toilet paper.
    walking in front of the building with a dog or a piglet is not a hate crime. saying we don’t want a mosque at ground zero is not a hate crime, it is some common seance, that is possessed by majority of Americans aside from dumb ass liberals like you
    Dr. Orly Taitz ESQ
    29839 Santa Margarita Pkwy ste 100
    Rancho Santa Margarita Ca 92688
    ph. 949-683-5411
    fax 949-766-7603
    orlytaitzesq.com
    drtaitz.com
    taitzofficesuites.com

  58. avatar
    obsolete August 16, 2010 at 6:35 pm #

    mrnopants: …….Sven and the rest should all get rectal cancer…….did I say that out loud?yes, i’m willing to stoop.screw em all who are undermining our country and dividing us for reasons that are truly unamerican’‘Patriots’ they are not, but sitting in their basement roll playing a game that should have serious consequences for them…….we know how far they are willing to go to get their way…….how far are we willing to go to stop them?

    If the birthers and other treasonberries ever actually pick up arms against America, They will meet resistance with surprising numbers and superior firepower.

  59. avatar
    thisoldhippie August 16, 2010 at 6:42 pm #

    STRAIGHT FROM ORLY’S WEBSITE:

    The pig’s blood idea will work. Something not widely circulated; a friend of mine who was deployed to Iraq during Desert Storm (1992) said that the main reason so many of the Iraqi soldiers surrendered was because we were dumping pig guts on them from military aircraft. The Iraqis believed that if they died after being touched by pig’s blood, that they would not go to meet Allah in “paradise” – so they immediately surrendered rather than risking being killed while defiled.

    I think it’s time to start bringing pigs everywhere.

    – Jim Byers
    Laguna Hills, CA

    Response from Orly
    I got this e-mail. I don’t know if it is true or not. I did hear that the remains of the suicide bombers were buried with pigs in several countries to tell those terrorists,” if you wage terror, you will go to hell as a mass murderer, you will not go to heaven, you will not meet your 72 virgins”.
    How about something more simple: a small petting zoo with piglets right by that building. If they feel they have a right to put a 13 story mosque at ground zero where they barbarically slaughtered 3,000 Americans, who had to choose between being burned to death or jumping from high story windows, than we can choose to put a nice petting zoo with cute little piglets.
    Where are these legal minds? Why don’t they work, when we need them?
    Keep in mind, many fanatics don’t like dogs as well. The side walks are public. Any US citizen can walk their pet piglet or pet dog right in front of that building. He can demonstrate and hold a sign and a piglet and a dog right in front of that building. Do we have a few New Yourkers, or people from near by New Jersey, who can take turns and do it?
    Can we make brochures, stating that we carry in each air plane, in cargo, a piglet. Let’s send a message to all of those shoe bombers and underwear bombers;”You try it, you’ll go to hell”.. Why don’t we have piglets with our soldiers on bases and patrols, on ships and in the backyards of the embassies?
    We are at war. Americans are dying. Our freedoms are being taken. We have seen pictures of decapitation of Daniel Pearl, death and mutilation of American contractors in Iraq, 3,000 killed in 9/11, planes downed, Marine headquarters in Lebanon bombed, several US embasies bombed, USS Cole bombed. Having small pet piglets is a small inconvenience, that might be worse it to prevent death of innocent humans.
    Let me know, what do you think. do you want to do it to stop a mosque at ground zero? Do you want to organize a protest with piglets in front of that mosque at 9/11 or 9/12? Do any of the people who want to protest on 9/12, want to go to that building at ground zero and protest with their dogs and piglets and signs “we don’t want a mosque at ground zero!!!’
    Update on donations.From August 9 I got $3,305 in contributions to pay this $20,000 extortion from the government, assessed to keep me from representing active military questioning Obama’s legitimacy to be the Commander-in-chief. I need $16,695 more to make the sanctions.
    Recent contributions: E Porche $25, Nancy Walker $20, Sandra Cooke $20, Loretta Stone $20, John Martin $20. Thank you! This is a fight for every decent American against this fascist regime. If these Nazis succeed in intimidating civil rights attorneys, than there will be nobody to fight for you, when they classify you as a domestic terrorist under the patriot act. Attorneys will be scared, that they will be disbarred or fined $20,000 dollars, a lien will be placed on their house, if they stick their neck for you. If we allow this to happen and don’t fight and don’t continue questioning legitimacy of Obama, this Constitutional republic will turn into tyranny (we might be there already).
    Last update.. As you remember, I ran against Damon Dunn in Republican primary. Dunn was a lifelong Democrat, who defrauded the voters by not providing a mandatory disclosure, the fact that he registered in 2 other states as a Democrat. He also called the registrar in FL and demanded to delete from the database his voter registration (he was registered as a Democrat there), but he never called the registrar in CA to provide the disclosure. Also, we got several people, stating that he got nominations by fraud, that they never signed his nomination. I filed a legal action against Dunn, it will go to trial. I requested a deposition, but so far there was no response from his attorneys. I might have to compel his deposition. Somebody in GOP old establishment is promoting Dunn. Yesterday he was on Sean Hannity, lying about his past. Can you call Hannity and demand equal time for me? Dunn announced to voters that he will not question Obama’s legitimacy to presidency. Official establishment, sold out lackeys of the oligarchs running the show, both on the left and the right are pushing for Dunn, because he goes along with the deal, made at the top of both parties, namely not to question Obama. While the straw polls showed me winning with 85% of the vote, it was announced that he won in the primary. There are a lot of issues to be resolved, i believe he will be found at trial, that he committed fraud. I need decent Americans, calling Hannity show and demanding that he give me an opportunity to speak.
    Category: Uncategorized

    Posted on | August 15, 2010 | 2 Comments

    BruceWho Submitted on 2010/08/15 at 8:52pm
    It is a real shame to see that our nation has come to the point with the BS/BO Administration that people do not feel free enough to send a contribution to Dr. Taitz due to fearing retaliation from usurper. This is not the first time that people have been terrorized by a dictatorial ruler, but it is the first time it has happened here in the USA!! And this is one of the main reasons all honorable people have to rise to the occasion and help persons Dr. Taitz through this totally unjust “contempt of court” charge and fine. Those persons worried about having their name published, just send an anonymous money order, but do help her out and help us all get our country back ASAP.
    from reader John Granath
    7 #

    Category: Uncategorized

    Posted on | August 15, 2010 | No Comments

    BruceWho Submitted on 2010/08/15 at 8:52pm
    It is a real shame to see that our nation has come to the point with the BS/BO Administration that people do not feel free enough to send a contribution to Dr. Taitz due to fearing retaliation from usurper. This is not the first time that people have been terrorized by a dictatorial ruler, but it is the first time it has happened here in the USA!! And this is one of the main reasons all honorable people have to rise to the occasion and help persons Dr. Taitz through this totally unjust “contempt of court” charge and fine. Those persons worried about having their name published, just send an anonymous money order, but do help her out and help us all get our country back ASAP.
    from reader John Granath
    7 #

    Category: Uncategorized

    GREAT IDEA FROM READER LAURA, WE NEED A PIG HEAD AT THE SITE OF THE PROPOSED MOSQUE. WHO HAS A PIG FARM AND CAN SHIP A PIG HEAD TO THAT BUILDING?
    Posted on | August 15, 2010 | No Comments

    Sunday, August 15, 2010 8:43 PM
    From:
    “laura”
    View contact details

    To:
    “Laura”
    I read the Israelis had a problem with suicide bombers. They put a lb. of lard (pig fat) onto each bus with a sign that said there is pig fat on this bus. If you blow yourself up, the pig fat will probably touch you and you will not go to heaven nor get your 47 (or however many) virgens.

    I also read that Israelis sometimes dip the tip of their bullets in pig fat (for similar purposes or so they avoid their bullets).

    I also read that some people in another state did not want a mosque in their city and put a dead pig (small one) in a large hole exposed so everyone could see it. The mosque was not built because they could not have anything pig-related defile the property or mosque.

  60. avatar
    Keith August 16, 2010 at 7:24 pm #

    Just when you thought she couldn’t get more insane.

  61. avatar
    JoZeppy August 16, 2010 at 7:28 pm #

    More B.S. from Orly. Why should we be surprised she gets sucked into internet rumours and ubran legends. This one has been around for ages. It started with the claim that Pershing would have his soliders dip their bullets in pig’s blood to scare the mulim rebels in the Phillipines before WWI. Of course there is no evidence he (or anyone else for that matter) ever did it, or that any mulsim would ever care. Fact is, a muslim’s aversion to pig is the same as a Jew’s. They share the exact same dietary laws. Neither can eat pork. That’s it. Irony is that someone controlled by the same restrictions would be parading down the street with a pig in tow (at least she would know how her husband feels).

  62. avatar
    Dave August 16, 2010 at 7:36 pm #

    thisoldhippie: [Quoting Taitz:] how dumb are you?
    there is a big difference between Jews, who didn’t murder anybody and Islam.

    I wonder if Taitz thinks there’s a difference between Jews who didn’t murder anybody and Muslims who didn’t murder anybody. Oh, what’s the point. A giant part of Taitz’s astounding bigotry is that she doesn’t have the brain power to see what’s wrong with this statement.

    Does she lump together all Germans with the Germans who killed 6 million Jews? No. Does she lump together all Christians with the Christians who subjected Jews to pogroms for hundreds of years? No. But it’s ok to lump together all Muslims because she doesn’t like them, and it’s ok to not like them because she’s lumped them all together, and one thing we know for sure is she will never spend a microsecond thinking about this.

  63. avatar
    Bovril August 16, 2010 at 7:39 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: You disappoint me, Drivel. You’re not doing your homework.
    Lolo worked for an Hawaii engineering firm for one year after he completed his studies at U of H. And that, my friend, requires a green card. We know he had a green card because his schedule to return to Indonesia was extended and authorized.
    I thought many of you were blinded by your love of Obama or your hatred of Amercia. Now, I’m starting to think some of you are really stupid.

    And you continue to fail in an astoundingly stupid manner.

    Lets see a selection of work visa’s……

    H1B
    L1A
    L1B
    K
    M
    N
    O
    Q
    R
    S
    Etc

    AND the one he was on you jack ass, a J1.

    Try and keep up muppet

  64. avatar
    Bovril August 16, 2010 at 7:59 pm #

    Just to drive the point home through you pointy little head.

    To get a Green Card you

    1. Have to have been a Legal Resident for a period of not less than 5 years

    Oops not applicable….FAIL

    2. Apply for adjustment of status

    Ooops can’t do that as he hasn’t been an LR for 5 years

    3. I know, try to piggy back in on SAD’s US Citizenship and get a family exception

    Ohhhhh so sorry FAIL, first you have to leave the country, then apply for a spouses visa then return, then demonstrate a MINIMUM of two years marriage then apply for an adjustment of status, then get a visa application number…..FAIL…again

    I could continue but guess what, Poor Sven, hoisted by that withered old petard of his/her/it’s….AGAIN.

  65. avatar
    BatGuano August 16, 2010 at 8:15 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: I suppose many Americans probably think he’s got a Scottish accent.

    ha! i went thru secondary many, many, many a time coming up from baja mexico because nobody could place a scottish accent ( my dad’s ).

  66. avatar
    Arthur August 16, 2010 at 8:52 pm #

    I don’t know what Orly’s got against pigs. I happen to know that one that served in the Air Force: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpiKHjWjYBQ&feature=related

  67. avatar
    Scientist August 16, 2010 at 9:04 pm #

    Bovril: Just to drive the point home through you pointy little head.
    To get a Green Card you
    1. Have to have been a Legal Resident for a period of not less than 5 years
    Oops not applicable….FAIL
    2. Apply for adjustment of status
    Ooops can’t do that as he hasn’t been an LR for 5 years
    3. I know, try to piggy back in on SAD’s US Citizenship and get a family exception
    Ohhhhh so sorry FAIL, first you have to leave the country, then apply for a spouses visa then return, then demonstrate a MINIMUM of two years marriage then apply for an adjustment of status, then get a visa application number…..FAIL…again
    I could continue but guess what, Poor Sven, hoisted by that withered old petard of his/her/it’s….AGAIN.

    Bovril-I believe you are incorrect. You don’t have to be a legal resident for 5 years to get a Green Card. You have to have a Green Card for 5 years to apply for citizenship.

    Also, if you are already in the US and marry a US citizen you can get an immediate Green Card without leaving the country. A spouses visa is for a spouse who is not in the US.

    None of this matters to Obama’s being a natural born citizen, as his step-fathers status is irrelevant, but I wanted to correct the record.

  68. avatar
    AnotherBird August 16, 2010 at 10:04 pm #

    thisoldhippie: [Quoting Taitz:] Having small pet piglets is a small inconvenience

    What a gem of Orly speak. She wants to have a piglet protest. I wonder what the piglets did to Orly.

  69. avatar
    thisoldhippie August 16, 2010 at 10:12 pm #

    I don’t know – but I love the way she calls me a dumb ass using her office email. Oh yeah, she’s a piece of work alright. Obviously she isn’t orthodox in any way!

  70. avatar
    richCares August 16, 2010 at 10:18 pm #

    Also, if you are already in the US and marry a US citizen you can get an immediate Green Card without leaving the country.
    .
    True
    My wife applied for her green card immediately after we got married, it was recommended by the pastor who married us. She used her green card for many, many years and just recently applied for US citizenship. She passed the verbal test and swearing comes soon.

  71. avatar
    Scientist August 16, 2010 at 10:22 pm #

    richCares: She passed the verbal test and swearing comes soon.

    Not necessarily. My wife and I are married 26 years and we don’t swear at each other yet.

  72. avatar
    joeymac August 16, 2010 at 10:30 pm #

    SvenMagnussen:
    No, Doc. Lolo filed a US Tax Return as a Non-resident Alien while he was living in Indonesia. The IRS notified USCIS of his return and USCIS notified Lolo his US Entry Visa was being canceled because of his filing.In meantime, Stanley Ann was writing State Department and asking for a waiver of Lolo’s agreement to return to Indonesia after his education commitment due to hardship. And that is why the State Department investigated and determined BHO II was merely a stepchild of Lolo and there was not a hardship created by Lolo living in Indonesia.If you were allowed complete access to Lolo’s USCIS files, then you would realize Lolo informed USCIS he was adopting BHO II as his son and it was a hardship for him to not be there for him. Unfortunately, the adoption process was not completed. Consequently, in the eyes of the law, BHO II was Lolo’s stepchild until the adoption was completed in 1969.
    It was in Hawaii, 1969, Stanley Ann, Barry Soetoro, Lolo Soetoro and a half-sister named Holiyah “Lia” Soetoro Sobah returned to Honolulu, Hawaii to complete the adoption.By 1971, Barry Soetoro, returned again to Honolulu, HI. This time he returned to appear in an Hawaii District to see his paternal parent, Barack Hussein Obama, object to the Soetoro adoption and have it annulled. Shortly after this, Barry Soetoro was renamed Barack Hussein Obama II and a new COLB was created by the HDoH to indicate Barack Hussein Obama is the father of Barack Hussein Obama II.

    Birthers can devise some of the most elaborate and nonsensical scenarios concerning the president, and then, trumpet it as some sort of truth that disqualifies him.

    There is no evidence that BHO, jr was ever legally adopted, and much to indicate that he wasn’t; But, if he was…so what? Since he was born in Honolulu of an American citizen mother, he is unquestionably a natural born citizen. No action that anyone else could have taken in his behalf could alter that status; he would have had to take certain concrete steps himself to alter that.

    So, the imaginary “adoption” by a foreign national is of no legal consequence.

    Also, the imaginary registration by some relative other than his mother is meaningless; the registrar was satisfied that the evidence presented justified registration as a Hawaiian birth, so the matter is settled legally.

  73. avatar
    Bovril August 16, 2010 at 10:56 pm #

    Scientist: Bovril-I believe you are incorrect. You don’t have to be a legal resident for 5 years to get a Green Card. You have to have a Green Card for 5 years to apply for citizenship.
    Also, if you are already in the US and marry a US citizen you can get an immediate Green Card without leaving the country. A spouses visa is for a spouse who is not in the US.

    Fraid not, my comments are based on Lolo’s status at the time and the laws in hand.

    Amongst a range of others, J1/J2 are explicitly barred from applying for change of status within 2 years of it’s expiration

    Even assuming by some miracle Lolo had managed to convince the government to waive the J1 bar and apply he would have had to leave the country to get an approved work based visa such as an H1B.

    He would not have been able to stay in the US for any period longer than 90 days at a time on a tourist visa whilst waiting on the H1B to be approved. Of course he would not have been able to work.

    Assuming he somehow managed to pass the necessary labor certification etc and was granted an H1B the average process time for a green card (which has stayed pretty constant over the years) is between 3 and 9 years unless he can demonstrate exceptional ability.

    The only way he would have been able to stay in country whilst having an application for change of status would have been by claiming political refugee status which manifestly didn’t happen.

    The 2 year spousal rule is a rule of thumb immigration used, starting during and after the Korean War which is an extension of the widow/widower path.

    The only potential exception would be the POSSIBILITY that he, after marrying SAD could apply for a provisional Green Card with a review at the 2 year mark.

    Wholly irrelevant in any case as…..if we took that muppet Sven’s fantasy that Lolo had a Green Card THEN HE WOULD NEVER HAD HAVE TO APPLY FOR AN EXTENSION AND WOULD NOT HAVE GONE BACK TO INDONESIA……..

  74. avatar
    Patrick August 17, 2010 at 12:39 am #

    Doc:

    Thanks, as always, for the great posts.

    But, if I’m counting correctly, Pres. Obama didn’t have “43 white predecessors”. There were only 42 I believe. Obama is 44th, but Grover Cleveland counts as both 22nd and 24th.

  75. avatar
    ron August 17, 2010 at 12:51 am #

    Kevin Bellas: I can honor his military service , but the man is a idiot.

    funny how quick they are to demand proof from the president, but demand no proof from his accussers of what they believe, he has shown his passport, which has been certified as authentic, his COB which has been certified as authentic, If they where truly patriotic why would they not demand that the accussers provide irreputable proof of what they accuse. You don’t have to respect the man but you should have respect for the office and what these so called americans are allowing and in my view encouraging is free pot shots at the office of the presidency of the united states with no accountabilty or fear of reprecussions for their actions which I view as treasonous.

  76. avatar
    ron August 17, 2010 at 1:17 am #

    Cathyholtz: He sucks at being president and it is NOT because he is a political party or nationality.If he where doing a good job we wouldn’t have the worst economy in History with strong government and weak voice of citizen.Nancy Pelosi sucks too! I did not support Bush either he was as dumb as a rock too!

    all this happened in the last 2 years right?

    corporations run the economy with help from your local governments not the president , if its so bad why do the majority of tcorporations continue to stay incorporated and continue too rake in record profits , send jobs overseas, and have billions of cash stockpiled. (bodies reduce profits, how about putting the blame where it deserves)thats a fact if you want some links that back those statements up I will provide them. learn to seek facts not repeat rhetoric and hearsay. just last week there was an article about google hiring 8000 new employees vs increasing profit share by an additional 20% and the stock value will take a hit because of it and the stockholders are upset about it. President s can screw up foreign policy pretty good but the economy that’s not him , not obama or Bush’s fault, ask any non bias economist and they will tell you that. the stimulus passed by both presidents was to increase the cash supply in the economy and speed up the circulation The supply is to low in this country and moving to slow. (because its all in foriegn markets mainly China. and continues to head that way at an unbalanced rate.

    Congress needs to fix the trade inbalance, but lobbyist don’t want them too. if you look at the trade balance over last 8 years with us and china, pakistan, and India , you can see what I mean, We spend bilions on their economies exploiting their cheap labor at the cost of manufacturin g jobs here and we get very little back. Money has to circulate to be effective. think about it. That was not the presidents doing at all.

  77. avatar
    Lupin August 17, 2010 at 1:45 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Lolo worked for an Hawaii engineering firm for one year after he completed his studies at U of H. And that, my friend, requires a green card. We know he had a green card because his schedule to return to Indonesia was extended and authorized.

    You are such a kreetin [/orly].

    As a foreigner, I worked for two years in Los Angeles for a major international bank with a J-1 visa, that was then renewed/extended for another two years. I did have a US SS number (still do) but didn’t have a green card.

    As for others’ presumed “hatred of America”, you should speak., The only one defecating on everything America gloriously stands for is you.

  78. avatar
    Lupin August 17, 2010 at 1:49 am #

    Bovril: Amongst a range of others, J1/J2 are explicitly barred from applying for change of status within 2 years of it’s expiration

    Actually that’s not true, although it is usually the case.

    It depends on what kind of programs your J-1 is for. There are some programs which do not include the two-year non residence requirement.

    When I processed my own papers many many years ago, the INS officer in LA was similarly confused and started giving me aggro. I had to get a letter from the State Dpt that showed that in my case, ie my program, I was NOT subject the two year non residence requirement.

    After I submitted that letter, then everything went smoothly.

    First-hand experience.

  79. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 17, 2010 at 8:08 am #

    Patrick: But, if I’m counting correctly, Pres. Obama didn’t have “43 white predecessors”. There were only 42 I believe. Obama is 44th, but Grover Cleveland counts as both 22nd and 24th.

    I counted Cleveland as being white twice. 😉

  80. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 17, 2010 at 8:49 am #

    Scientist:
    Not necessarily.My wife and I are married 26 years and we don’t swear at each other yet.

    You must not spend enough time at home together

  81. avatar
    Mike August 17, 2010 at 10:05 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: counted Cleveland as being white twice.

    He was really pale.

  82. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 10:23 am #

    Patrick: Doc:Thanks, as always, for the great posts.But, if I’m counting correctly, Pres. Obama didn’t have “43 white predecessors”.There were only 42 I believe. Obama is 44th, but Grover Cleveland counts as both 22nd and 24th.

    Yes, but you could almost count out William Henry Harrison altogether. 😉

  83. avatar
    Sean August 17, 2010 at 12:24 pm #

    I’m not advocating this, but it would be interesting to see her reaction if someone covered her car in raw pork.

    I bet the smell might make her wonder why she suggested this pig intimidation.

  84. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 12:36 pm #

    Sean: I’m not advocating this, but it would be interesting to see her reaction if someone covered her car in raw pork.I bet the smell might make her wonder why she suggested this pig intimidation.

    Re-enacting the prom scene in Carrie would be far more entertaining.

  85. avatar
    Ellid August 17, 2010 at 1:23 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Re-enacting the prom scene in Carrie would be far more entertaining.

    Oh, come now. Do you *really* want to see what she’d look like once the eyelashes washed off?

  86. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 1:53 pm #

    Ellid:
    Oh, come now.Do you *really* want to see what she’d look like once the eyelashes washed off?

    Ewwww. Point taken.

  87. avatar
    Black Lion August 17, 2010 at 5:16 pm #

    The ignorance of the birthers….They are not even trying to get their lies straight….

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/08/12/senator-mccain-come-to-the-aid-of-your-country/

    Jim says:
    Saturday, August 14, 2010 at 12:18 AM
    As a former Naval officer and child of a career military officer I know many persons born overseas to military and diplomatic personnel. They are ALL considered natural born citizens if they are born on a US military installation, have TWO parents that are US citizens and or serving in that nation under military or diplomatic orders. McCain’s father was stationed in Panama and therefore is natural born.

    Obama’s father was a British subject. Kenya was formerly called Mombasa and was a British territory at the time of Obama’s birth. British passport records show that BHO traveled with his mother and father from Mombassa on British passports to the US in 1961. To have a British passport, makes him a British Citizen and not eligible to be POTUS.

    Mrs. Obama remarried Barry Sotoro, an Indonesian national and BHO was adopted by Mr. Sotoro and given the name Barry Sotoro and enrolled in a Muslim school in Jakarta. Under Indonesian law, BHO became Barry Sotoro and a citizen of Indonesia. Additionally, he also became a Muslim.

    BHO ( Barry Sotoro) upon returning to Hawaii as a teenager had the legal right for his mother to renounce his Indonesian Citizenship and re-claim his American Citizenship if eligible but she did not do so. There are no records of Barry Sotoro ever legally changing his name back to BHO, therefore he is a fraud. On records that have been discovered, three separate SS# have been used.

    He is not entitled to be POTUS or a US Senator since he ran under a false name and if not naturalized not able to hold any office.

    Garacka says:
    Friday, August 13, 2010 at 5:24 PM
    If McCain had better lawyers, they would have advised him of the citation in Emmerich de Vattels’ “The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law” which indicated that one born in the Armies of the State was considered to have been natural born. The logic seems to be that when in the military, an individual (in this case the father) was an extension of the country via orders from the Commander in Chief and would not be subject to the jurisdiction of the foreign country. This would have provided McCain a good chance that a Court would have agreed and he would have been eligible. As a result, he could have told his lawyers not to challenge the lawsuit and offer the Vattel “Armies of the State” defense.

    Would he have been taking a chance? Sure., but he also may have gotten the Supreme Court to comprehensively define NBC as born to 2 Citizen parents either in the U.S or outside the U.S. if under military orders to be there.

    thistle says:
    Thursday, August 12, 2010 at 5:17 PM
    Truthfully, in my opinion, I do not know why McCain’s citizenship was even questioned. Both of his parents were American citizens and were only in Panama in the service of our country. Since his parents were both citizens, it isn’t likely that he would have been raised contrary to their beliefs in this country. His heroic actions during Vietnam prove that love of country & military was instilled in him as well. What happened to him after this, I’m not sure, but I still feel that, in his heart, he loves his country and has a respect for those in the military. That’s just my opinion.

    The reason natural born’ is so important is because one should NOT have any allegiances to any other country. I don’t think McCain has an allegiance to Panama simply because he was physically born there.

    On the other hand, Obama seems to have an allegiance to several countries, and America ISN’T one of them. Plus, even if he was born in HI, his father was not an American citizen, which could give this usurper president an allegiance to his father’s country of Kenya, or stepfather’s country of Indonesia, and not America. From Obama’s actions in what he is doing to this country, it’s obvious that the love of America was NOT instilled into him by his parents as it was in McCain case. How could it be? His father lived here only a short time, and his mother lived abroad most of her adult years. Obama has been surrounded by communists and radicals his entire life. Maybe he blames America for that, who knows, but one thing is certain…..he has an agenda to destroy this country and the only way he could do it was to get into the white house by fraud. What really concerns me are those who helped him accomplish this. They are the true traitors to this country.

  88. avatar
    Sean August 17, 2010 at 7:12 pm #

    A birther (yammer123) just threatened me with murder on YouTube:

    @busymartian your a f*cking idiot, you have yet to provide obama’s doctor who delievered him, my sks m class rifle with a 30 round clip with 7.62 caliber bullets will be gunning you liberals down left and right come time for the next L.A riot, FROM VENICE BEACH,CA F*CK LIBERALS

    I can’t figure out how to report him.

  89. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 7:45 pm #

    Sean: A birther (yammer123) just threatened me with murder on YouTube:@busymartian your a f*cking idiot, you have yet to provide obama’s doctor who delievered him, my sks m class rifle with a 30 round clip with 7.62 caliber bullets will be gunning you liberals down left and right come time for the next L.A riot, FROM VENICE BEACH,CA F*CK LIBERALS
    I can’t figure out how to report him.

    Your local FBI office.

    http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm

  90. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 8:13 pm #

    Sean: A birther (yammer123) just threatened me with murder on YouTube:@busymartian your a f*cking idiot, you have yet to provide obama’s doctor who delievered him, my sks m class rifle with a 30 round clip with 7.62 caliber bullets will be gunning you liberals down left and right come time for the next L.A riot, FROM VENICE BEACH,CA F*CK LIBERALS
    I can’t figure out how to report him.

    And on yammer123’s channel:

    “all obama supporters = enemy of america. anyone who thinks otherwise will be in my cross hairs come time for the next civil war.”

    About Me:

    “the next civil war in this country is on the horizon..and it sure as hell won’t be uneven odds like it was last time”

    YouTube’s TOS (excerpt):

    We encourage free speech and defend everyone’s right to express unpopular points of view. But we don’t permit hate speech (speech which attacks or demeans a group based on race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status, and sexual orientation/gender identity).

    Things like predatory behavior, stalking, threats, harassment, intimidation, invading privacy, revealing other people’s personal information, and inciting others to commit violent acts or to violate the Terms of Use are taken very seriously. Anyone caught doing these things may be permanently banned from YouTube.

    That with the threat also deserves reporting directly to YouTube.

  91. avatar
    Sean August 17, 2010 at 8:31 pm #

    Majority Will:
    And on yammer123′s channel:“all obama supporters = enemy of america. anyone who thinks otherwise will be in my cross hairs come time for the next civil war.”About Me:“the next civil war in this country is on the horizon..and it sure as hell won’t be uneven odds like it was last time”YouTube’s TOS (excerpt):We encourage free speech and defend everyone’s right to express unpopular points of view. But we don’t permit hate speech (speech which attacks or demeans a group based on race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status, and sexual orientation/gender identity).Things like predatory behavior, stalking, threats, harassment, intimidation, invading privacy, revealing other people’s personal information, and inciting others to commit violent acts or to violate the Terms of Use are taken very seriously. Anyone caught doing these things may be permanently banned from YouTube.That with the threat also deserves reporting directly to YouTube.

    I reported it to YouTube.

  92. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 8:43 pm #

    Sean:
    I reported it to YouTube.

    Excellent.

  93. avatar
    G August 17, 2010 at 9:10 pm #

    Sean:
    I reported it to YouTube.

    I think, based on the extreme nature of the comments, both directly to you, as well as on his own channel, that reporting it to the FBI should be a must by you as well. Get screen captures of all that stuff before YouTube pulls it.

    All YouTube will do is pull him and someone as unhinged as that will just pop up later and probably do real harm to someone, unless you take action and report him to authorities.

  94. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 9:44 pm #

    G:
    I think, based on the extreme nature of the comments, both directly to you, as well as on his own channel, that reporting it to the FBI should be a must by you as well.Get screen captures of all that stuff before YouTube pulls it.All YouTube will do is pull him and someone as unhinged as that will just pop up later and probably do real harm to someone, unless you take action and report him to authorities.

    I agree. The local FBI has a desk agent trained to take such calls. Others may have already given them evidence as well.

    That freak could be the next von Brunn or McVeigh.

  95. avatar
    Sean August 17, 2010 at 10:45 pm #

    Majority Will:
    I agree. The local FBI has a desk agent trained to take such calls. Others may have already given them evidence as well.That freak could be the next von Brunn or McVeigh.

    The FBI didn’t want to talk to me. They said it wasn’t specific enough. They told me to call the police. I might just have to send Venice Police a copy of the screen shots.

  96. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 10:52 pm #

    Sean:
    The FBI didn’t want to talk to me. They said it wasn’t specific enough. They told me to call the police. I might just have to send Venice Police a copy of the screen shots.

    I hope the agent was professional and polite?

    But yes, any evidence or exposure is better than none. You did the right thing.

    Venice Police is a good move.

    It beats silence.