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LTC Lakin pre-trial motions and witness list

Today, August 20, was the deadline for submission of pre-trial motions and the witness for the LTC Lakin court martial. Lakin is a military doctor who has refused to follow orders, to force President Obama to prove he is really President.

Lakin advocacy site photo

So far I haven’t found any news on what happened today. There is, however, quite a bit of news at SafeguardOurConstitution.com, the Lakin fundraising site. One big item is that the photo of Lakin has been turned into an animation showing prison bars appearing across his photo. They say legal costs are mounting and expected to reach $500,000!

They also tout a claim that CNN has retracted a comment saying Lakin was a racist.

The American Patriot Foundation spins it this way:

Washington, D.C., August 16, 2010. The Army doctor who is being court martialled for refusing to obey orders has demanded – and received – a retraction from CNN of defamatory comments made by Jeffrey Toobin about Lakin.

What CNN Legal affairs consultant Jeffrey Toobin said was:

TOOBIN: In your interview you kept saying what an honorable man he is. You know, as they say at the Supreme Court, I think I dissent. You know, these people are bigots, they’re racists, they’re freaks, they’re lunatics, these are not rational players in American politics…

Lakin’s attorney Jensen threatened to sue. Toobin later clarified his comment by saying:

TOOBIN: A couple of weeks ago, we did a story about Lieutenant Colonel Terrence Lakin. He is the officer who has tried to get out of military service because he believes that President Obama was not born in the United States. He’s one of the so-called birthers. In the course of that report, I made the statement that a lot of the birthers are bigots and racists and there was a picture of Lakin behind me. I didn’t mean to suggest that he was a bigot and a racist. I was just talking more generally. And I also should correct myself. He wasn’t trying to get out of military service. He is the subject of a court Martial, that’s why we were doing the story. But I didn’t mean to imply that about him.

The SafeguardOurConstitution site then said:

it is regrettable that it took Jensen’s threat of litigation to compel Toobin to take back his vile words

This is an example of the post hoc fallacy. Just because Jensen threatened to sue doesn’t mean that a threat of a lawsuit was necessary to obtain the clarification. Maybe they could have just asked nicely.

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89 Responses to LTC Lakin pre-trial motions and witness list

  1. avatar
    Dave August 20, 2010 at 11:57 pm #

    The animated picture has been there a long time. Amusingly, the first time I saw the site it was asking for $50,000, but shortly thereafter it suddenly changed to $500,000, where it’s been ever since.

    Although this site posts plenty of press releases mostly about nothing, as far as I know they have never posted any filing by LTC Lakin’s lawyers. I find that odd.

  2. avatar
    AnotherBird August 21, 2010 at 12:36 am #

    But Lakin … forget it. Lakin about that $500,000 … never mind.

  3. avatar
    G August 21, 2010 at 6:20 am #

    Merely another con-job being pulled on the birthers to fleece them by unscrupulous RW operatives behind the “movement”.

    Let’s see here… Lakin automatically has a military defense attorney appointed to him, on the government’s dime.

    So, the fact that Lakin privately chose of his own accord to hire a private dog-bite lawyer without JAG experience to *also* defend him and a fancy-schmancy web/media outlet to issue rants, pump supporters for cash and further dishonor his service….

    …well, boo-hoo. That’s his own fricking doing (and his “handlers” of course). Still, even then, I don’t buy at all that their costs involved here hover anywhere near the $50K mark at this point, let alone $500 K.

  4. avatar
    Reality Check August 21, 2010 at 8:09 am #

    $500,000 for an attorney whose specialty is animal/dog law seems a might steep to me. http://lawyers.law.cornell.edu/lawyer/mr-paul-rolf-jensen-79510

  5. avatar
    James August 21, 2010 at 8:14 am #

    Yes, who knows what their witness list might be? If Lakin intends to mount his defense he should bring the following the witnesses:
    Hawaii DOH Officials
    Tim Adams
    Lucas Smith
    Major Stephen Cooke
    Col. Hollister
    Pamela Barnett
    Charles Kerchner
    Alan Keyes
    General Valley
    General Curry

  6. avatar
    katahdin August 21, 2010 at 9:27 am #

    Reality Check: $500,000 for an attorney whose specialty is animal/dog law seems a might steep to me. http://lawyers.law.cornell.edu/lawyer/mr-paul-rolf-jensen-79510

    Apparently, one of his specialties is medical malpractice. I wonder if he’s ever sued Orly.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 21, 2010 at 9:28 am #

    Dave: Although this site posts plenty of press releases mostly about nothing, as far as I know they have never posted any filing by LTC Lakin’s lawyers. I find that odd.

    Perhaps the output is so puny that it would raise questions about where the $500,000 is/will be spent.

  8. avatar
    katahdin August 21, 2010 at 9:29 am #

    James: Yes, who knows what their witness list might be? If Lakin intends to mount his defense he should bring the following the witnesses:Hawaii DOH OfficialsTim AdamsLucas SmithMajor Stephen CookeCol. HollisterPamela BarnettCharles KerchnerAlan KeyesGeneral ValleyGeneral Curry

    Sonds like a parade of the counterproductive, the irrelevant, and the crazy.

  9. avatar
    AnotherBird August 21, 2010 at 9:40 am #

    James: If Lakin intends to mount his defense he should bring the following the witnesses:
    Hawaii DOH Officials

    James, Hawaii will not act as witnesses for Lakin. Even if they were to get involved in Lakin’s court martial ;which they will not; they would act for the prosecution.

    I know that the court has allowed Alan Keyes to act as a witness for Lakin, but I don’t know about the other individuals.

    Lakin’s court martial is only about the facts relevant to whether or not his disobeyed a legal order.

  10. avatar
    BOHICA August 21, 2010 at 9:42 am #

    “TOOBIN: A couple of weeks ago, we did a story about Lieutenant Colonel Terrence Lakin. He is the officer who has tried to get out of military service because he believes that President Obama was not born in the United States. He’s one of the so-called birthers. In the course of that report, I made the statement that a lot of the birthers are bigots and racists and there was a picture of Lakin behind me. I didn’t mean to suggest that he was a bigot and a racist. I was just talking more generally. And I also should correct myself. He wasn’t trying to get out of military service. He is the subject of a court Martial, that’s why we were doing the story. But I didn’t mean to imply that about him.”

    Anyone who grants Toobin an ounce of respect is a fool.

  11. avatar
    AnotherBird August 21, 2010 at 9:59 am #

    G: Still, even then, I don’t buy at all that their costs involved here hover anywhere near the $50K mark at this point, let alone $500 K.

    Maybe some of the money will be sent to Orly Taitz (not!). I am still scratching my head on the $50K. Lakin has been given a military lawyer which further makes it perplexing. I haven’t seen how much they have raised so far.

    Every time I think of the $500K I have to laugh. It is more of a scam than anything. If they where up front about the real cost they would display their various costs. I wonder when a donor will as to see their records.

  12. avatar
    Dave August 21, 2010 at 10:05 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Perhaps the output is so puny that it would raise questions about where the $500,000 is/will be spent.

    I am wondering not so much about the quantity as the quality. Back in the run-up to the Article 32 that never was, their website posted a rage-fueled press release along with the Investigating Officer’s memo declining most of LTC Lakin’s requested documents and witnesses — but did not post Jensen’s filing requesting them. And the IO’s memo contained a statement that should concern birthers: that Jensen didn’t make an argument why the requested documents and witnesses should be provided. Making arguments is what lawyers are supposed to do, hopefully arguments that persuade, but not making an argument at all sounds to me like not doing the job.

  13. avatar
    Dave August 21, 2010 at 10:10 am #

    AnotherBird:
    I wonder when a donor will as to see their records.

    I believe American Patriot Foundation files on a calendar year. They were inactive for several years, so there is no filing for 2007-2009. They ramped up their current effort this year, so they should be filing a 990 for 2010. I think those are due in Apr 2011. That’s when the donors will get a first look at where the money is going.

  14. avatar
    Reality Check August 21, 2010 at 10:22 am #

    katahdin: Apparently, one of his specialties is medical malpractice. I wonder if he’s ever sued Orly.

    Jensen’s other claim to fame is attempting to try to get homosexual Presbyterian ministers defrocked. He made an ass of himself at a national Presbyterian meeting over this issue a few years ago.

  15. avatar
    Northland10 August 21, 2010 at 11:25 am #

    Dave: I believe American Patriot Foundation files on a calendar year. They were inactive for several years, so there is no filing for 2007-2009. They ramped up their current effort this year, so they should be filing a 990 for 2010. I think those are due in Apr 2011. That’s when the donors will get a first look at where the money is going.

    I had just left this comment over at NBCs:

    … the APF did submit the form 990EZ to GuideStar (a non-profit informational service) for 2004 through 2006. These were all signed by Margaret Hemenway on 7 May 2010. It looks like they are playing catch-up with the paperwork. They submitted these to GuideStar but there is nothing available from the IRS yet. They would also need 2007 submitted to avoid the 3 year rule but they could be doing that by 999n (the e-postcard) and the IRS is a little slow.

    You need a free login to view the forms:
    http://www2.guidestar.org/organizations/30-0158521/american-patriot-foundation.aspx

    Prior to 2007, many non-profits did not have to file a 990 if their income and expenditures were small. They now have to file at least once in 3 years or lose the tax exempt status (all non-profits and not just charitable 501(c)(3) organizations. APF is on the list to lose their exemption, but it is possible the list was created before the group filed a 990n (e-postcard). I have not found any forms on the IRS site except for the 2003 990.

    I do have suspicions that their current “project” does not follow the requirements of a 501(c)(3) but, lacking various information (by-laws, recent distributions, etc.) and a tax lawyer, I cannot be certain.

  16. avatar
    richCares August 21, 2010 at 11:34 am #

    what a laugh, a reality challanged individual wants Tim Adams, a lowly clerk with no access to any records,to testify for Lakin. That is way to funny! Adam’s “go nowhere” story seems to have had a major impact on the intellectually challanged James. Now I need a new keyboard. If you ask James why he won’t go to night school, he will respond “I don’t have a watch”.

  17. avatar
    Northland10 August 21, 2010 at 11:36 am #

    James: Yes, who knows what their witness list might be?If Lakin intends to mount his defense he should bring the following the witnesses:
    Hawaii DOH Officials
    Tim Adams
    Lucas Smith
    Major Stephen Cooke
    Col. Hollister
    Pamela Barnett
    Charles Kerchner
    Alan Keyes
    General Valley
    General Curry

    Did these “witnesses” actually witness LTC Lakin obeying an order to deploy? Did the observe him “not missing a movement?” Are they in his chain of command so as to testify that no actual order was given?

    Just hating the President does not make one a credible witness and the Hawaii DOH has nothing to do with military orders.

  18. avatar
    Arthur August 21, 2010 at 11:39 am #

    James: Yes, who knows what their witness list might be?If Lakin intends to mount his defense he should bring the following the witnesses:
    Hawaii DOH Officials
    Tim Adams
    Lucas Smith
    Major Stephen Cooke
    Col. Hollister
    Pamela Barnett
    Charles Kerchner
    Alan Keyes
    General Valley
    General Curry

    Excellent list, James! Such a group would clearly resolve the court martial in exactly the way all right-thinking people expect. While the men and women you’ve mentioned are superb choices, you might also consider:

    Lt. Commander Quintin McHale
    Capt. Joseph Yossarian
    Col. Wilhelm Klink
    Maj. Margaret J. Houllihan
    and Private Eddie Slovik

    With a witness list like that, the prosecution is certain to roll over and play dead.

    Keep up the good work and God bless “We the People”!

  19. avatar
    richCares August 21, 2010 at 11:45 am #

    Arthur stop it, that was way to funny, I just got a new keyboard, now I need toget anorher one.

  20. avatar
    Reality Check August 21, 2010 at 11:49 am #

    Doc C said “One big item is that the photo of Lakin has been turned into an animation showing prison bars appearing across his photo.

    Isn’t that the most childish thing you have seen on a web site in a long time? It is cartoonish and trivializes the criminal nature of LTC Lakin’s blatant disrespect for his commanding officers, the chain of command, and his Commander in Chief.

  21. avatar
    Arthur August 21, 2010 at 12:13 pm #

    richCares: Arthur stop it, that was way to funny,I just got a new keyboard, now I need toget anorher one.

    Sorry about that! James’ unblinking naivete is always an inspiration to me.

  22. avatar
    Rickey August 21, 2010 at 1:10 pm #

    Arthur, a great list but you left out Sergeant Ernie Bilko.

  23. avatar
    Arthur August 21, 2010 at 1:26 pm #

    Rickey:

    Sergeant Bilko goes without saying; in fact, I can’t say Lakin without thinking of Bilko. Though separated by rank, they’re both scam artists.

  24. avatar
    Sef August 21, 2010 at 1:33 pm #

    Bilko a scam “artiste”? yes! Un-American? NO!

  25. avatar
    Reality Check August 21, 2010 at 1:37 pm #

    Don’t forget PFC Gomer Pyle. He could even advise how to make a citizen’s arrest for the AGJ folks who follow Lakin.

  26. avatar
    Sean August 21, 2010 at 1:42 pm #

    Doesn’t $500,000 prove Lakin is a coward?

  27. avatar
    Sean August 21, 2010 at 1:46 pm #

    Arthur:
    Sorry about that! James’ unblinking naivete is always an inspiration to me.

    I didn’t see James’ name at first. I first thought that 1st list was someone’s joke.

  28. avatar
    AnotherBird August 21, 2010 at 1:57 pm #

    Reality Check: Isn’t that the most childish thing you have seen on a web site in a long time? It is cartoonish and trivializes the criminal nature of LTC Lakin’s blatant disrespect for his commanding officers, the chain of command, and his Commander in Chief.

    It is all part of the misinformation. They want to portray Lakin as a person standing up for the constitution, who is being victimized because of this beliefs. This is obvious just a lie.

    The bars do suit him. He has broken the rules that he stated that he would up hold, he has let down his commanding officers, and those who were waiting for him in Afghanistan.

    It is all fun and games until someone goes to jail. Lakin will never change his mind, and will always portray himself as a victim.

  29. avatar
    Gregory August 21, 2010 at 2:11 pm #

    Dave:
    Making arguments is what lawyers are supposed to do, hopefully arguments that persuade, but not making an argument at all sounds to me like not doing the job.

    I think Jensen realizes that any argument that he could have submitted to the IO would have only made himself look foolish. In other words, Jensen does not sincerely believe that Lakin has a leg to stand on – even while (no doubt) assuring Lakin otherwise.

  30. avatar
    Gregory August 21, 2010 at 2:44 pm #

    Note also how misleading safeguardourconstitution’s headline is:

    CNN OFFERS RETRACTION FOR RACIST STATEMENT.

    Jeffrey Toobin’s remarks were about racists and racism – the comments themselves were not in any way racist. In fact, it is hard to conceive how one white man (Toobin) could ever have made “racist” comments about another man (Lakin) of the same race.

  31. avatar
    Majority Will August 21, 2010 at 3:01 pm #

    Gregory: Note also how misleading safeguardourconstitution’s headline is:CNN OFFERS RETRACTION FOR RACIST STATEMENT.Jeffrey Toobin’s remarks were about racists and racism – the comments themselves were not in any way racist. In fact, it is hard to conceive how one white man (Toobin) could ever have made “racist” comments about another man (Lakin) of the same race.

    The circus clown is just warming up. I strongly doubt Army COL Denise R. Lind will tolerate Jensen’s ineptitude, arrogance and theatrics.

  32. avatar
    Sef August 21, 2010 at 3:16 pm #

    Majority Will:
    The circus clown is just warming up. I strongly doubt Army COL Denise R. Lind will tolerate Jensen’s ineptitude, arrogance and theatrics.

    I wonder how Jensen would like to spend some time in the Army stockade for contempt of Court? Has anyone checked popping corn futures prices recently in light of the upcoming festivities?

  33. avatar
    Majority Will August 21, 2010 at 3:28 pm #

    Sef:
    I wonder how Jensen would like to spend some time in the Army stockade for contempt of Court?Has anyone checked popping corn futures prices recently in light of the upcoming festivities?

    I’m amazed he can let all of those dog bite cases go unattended.

    Try the popcorn with a light sprinkle of basil and Parmesan cheese.

    And seats are limited.

  34. avatar
    Black Lion August 21, 2010 at 4:05 pm #

    Arthur: Excellent list, James! Such a group would clearly resolve the court martial in exactly the way all right-thinking people expect. While the men and women you’ve mentioned are superb choices, you might also consider: Lt. Commander Quintin McHaleCapt. Joseph YossarianCol. Wilhelm KlinkMaj. Margaret J. Houllihanand Private Eddie SlovikWith a witness list like that, the prosecution is certain to roll over and play dead. Keep up the good work and God bless “We the People”!

    Arthur….That was a good one…However you forgot a few that could probably help Lakin out….

    Major Greg “Pappy” Boyington
    Commander Harmon Rabb Jr.
    Commander Steven McGarrett
    Lt. Cmdr. Thomas Magnum
    Col. John “Hanibal” Smith

  35. avatar
    Majority Will August 21, 2010 at 4:07 pm #

    Black Lion:
    Arthur….That was a good one…Howeveryou forgot a few that could probably help Lakin out….Major Greg “Pappy” Boyington
    Commander Harmon Rabb Jr.
    Commander Steven McGarrett
    Lt. Cmdr. Thomas Magnum
    Col. John “Hanibal” Smith

    General ‘Buck’ Turgidson?

  36. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 21, 2010 at 4:20 pm #

    And don’t forget for the Lakin witness list:

    Lt. Cmdr. Thomas ‘Tom’ Dodge

  37. avatar
    Majority Will August 21, 2010 at 4:22 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: And don’t forget for the Lakin witness list:Lt. Cmdr. Thomas Tom’ Dodge

    We’ll have to throw in Ernest Borgnine and Tim Conway then as “character” witnesses.

  38. avatar
    Majority Will August 21, 2010 at 5:14 pm #

    That photo of Lakin would look better with him in an orange jumpsuit.

    He doesn’t deserve to wear the uniform.

  39. avatar
    Arthur August 21, 2010 at 6:11 pm #

    I’m sure the officers mentioned above would be very happy to assist LTC Lakin, especially General Turgidson, who certainly has a bent for conspiracy theories.

  40. avatar
    James August 21, 2010 at 8:27 pm #

    It is interesting but once again a person named “Terry” is in need of great help. Of course, everyone should be aware that in 2005, another “Terri” needed help – Terri Schiavo. I seriously doubt that anyone on this board supported Terri Schiavo’s right to live so I am not too suprised about the feelings persons have about Terry Lakin. In 2005, it was the Save Terri Schiavo Campaign. It is hoped with lots of teamwork and cooporation, 2010 will be the Save LTC Terry Lakin Campaign.

  41. avatar
    James August 21, 2010 at 8:46 pm #

    The hearings are coming up soon. If Lakin and his legal team need more time, they can try to push off the dates. Of course, I suppose Lakin and lawyer can make sure that sprayed good and well by a skunk the night be the hearing. I don’t if they could conduct the hearing or trial unless everyone used gas masks.

  42. avatar
    Sef August 21, 2010 at 8:51 pm #

    James: It is interesting but once again a person named “Terry” is in need of great help.Of course, everyone should be aware that in 2005, another “Terri” needed help – Terri Schiavo.I seriously doubt that anyone on this board supported Terri Schiavo’s right to live so I am not too suprised about the feelings persons have about Terry Lakin.In 2005, it was the Save Terri Schiavo Campaign.It is hoped with lots of teamwork and cooporation, 2010 will be the Save LTC Terry Lakin Campaign.

    James, are you attracted to DOA causes normally, or just these two.

  43. avatar
    AnotherBird August 21, 2010 at 9:01 pm #

    James: It is interesting but once again a person named “Terry” is in need of great help.Of course, everyone should be aware that in 2005, another “Terri” needed help – Terri Schiavo.I seriously doubt that anyone on this board supported Terri Schiavo’s right to live so I am not too suprised about the feelings persons have about Terry Lakin.In 2005, it was the Save Terri Schiavo Campaign.It is hoped with lots of teamwork and cooporation, 2010 will be the Save LTC Terry Lakin Campaign.

    Satire?

  44. avatar
    Black Lion August 21, 2010 at 9:13 pm #

    James: It is interesting but once again a person named “Terry” is in need of great help. Of course, everyone should be aware that in 2005, another “Terri” needed help – Terri Schiavo. I seriously doubt that anyone on this board supported Terri Schiavo’s right to live so I am not too suprised about the feelings persons have about Terry Lakin. In 2005, it was the Save Terri Schiavo Campaign. It is hoped with lots of teamwork and cooporation, 2010 will be the Save LTC Terry Lakin Campaign.

    It is hilarious how James will comment and then run away….he brings up the Terri Schavo case, which is not even close to the Lakin case….Lakin ruined his own career because he has decided that racism is more important that serving his country….Comparing that to a case where the state overstepped its bounds is ridiculous….but it shows the desperation of the birthers….Supporting one lost cause after another…

  45. avatar
    Black Lion August 21, 2010 at 9:37 pm #

    Interesting….

    “These actions by prosecutors have caused individuals to protest their handling of Lakin. Vincent Averna, a former Navy Captain in the JAG Corps, sent a letter to Major General Carla Hawley-Bowland, who has authority over Lakin’s superiors. In the letter regarding Brodsky he stated, “His threat to have LTC Lakin tasered to insure his silence is also a blatant violation of the American principle of innocent until proven guilty. This prosecutor is not following normal procedures in LTC Lakin’s court martial. He is violating LTC’s Constitutional Rights by prohibiting his freedom of speech, equal protection under the law and Constitutional Procedural Due Process by failure to follow the UCMJ procedures.” He warned that a failure to investigate the veracity of the claims would be “tantamount to Command Influence, since it can legitimately be said your inaction gives consent to this prosecutor’s misconduct.”
    Regarding the admissibility of evidence, including the President’s long form birth certificate showing the name of the attending physician and hospital, Averna said, “The judge’s rulings on admissibility of evidence and conduct of the actual trial can be reviewed by COMA and their ruling can be brought directly to the Supreme Court without any other federal court review. Sooner or later everyone’s actions (or lack thereof) will come under an objective review at the highest level, which not even the President of the U.S. can stop.”
    Margaret Hemenway, the spokeswoman for Lt. Col. Lakin appeared on the Peter Boyles show in Denver with guest host George Brauchler who is a JAG reservist. During the interview, Brauchler said he met Lakin a year ago in an intermediate level course required in order to be promoted to the next level. He said, “my experience with Col. Lakin is that he is as principled a person as you would want to be in uniform.” He went on to say Lakin “has never said no’ to the Army for anything it’s ever asked of him for 18 years” except for this.”

    http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=4824

    And from the comments…

    HistorianDude

    August 16, 2010 3:02 pm .It is fascinating that Birthers (like Jack Minor) seem to keep forgetting that the person on trial here is not Barack Obama. It is LTC Lakin. He has been charged with (and admitted to) missing movement, disobeying two orders, and dereliction of duty. Had he been an enlisted man, he would be in custody, rather than merely escorted to and from the court martial.

    As to his civilian counsel’s whining about “freedom of speech,” it is actually another violation of UCMJ for Lakin to conduct his political grandstanding while in uniform. There has been no effort to prevent him from appearing on the G. Gordon Liddy show, or releasing his tendentious and often inaccurate press releases. So complaints about being unable to speak to the press appear to be rather patently absurd. Lakin can put on his dog and pony show in almost any venue he wants… other than the court martial itself. If Lakin actually did attempt to resist his escort then tasing him and throwing him into the van would have been an appropriate response. It’s necessity would probably also garner him an additional charge or two.

    This is a court martial. Not a circus.

    It is also hilarious to consider the profound hypocrisy of Jensen’s complaint that LTC Brodsky is somehow “interfering” in or trying to “influence” Lakin’s “chain of command,” especially considering that Lakin’s position is supposedly that there is no chain of command at all.

    But never let reality get in the way of right wing outrage or a convenient Birther talking point.

  46. avatar
    AnotherBird August 21, 2010 at 9:54 pm #

    Black Lion: (Quote HistorianDude) This is a court martial. Not a circus.

    Black Lion thanks again for the information that you share with us. I do like HistorianDude’s statement. What happened between Brodsky and Lakin continue to morph, which suggest Lakin’s supporters are trying to deflect from the fact that Lakin broken Army Regulations.

  47. avatar
    Rickey August 21, 2010 at 10:00 pm #

    James: In 2005, it was the Save Terri Schiavo Campaign.

    How did that one work out for you? Terri Schiavo was brain-dead, and she had been brain-dead for 15 years.

    An autopsy on Terri Schiavo, the severely brain damaged woman whose death sparked an intense debate over a person’s right-to-die, showed that her brain was severely “atrophied,” weighed less than half of what it should have, and that no treatment could have reversed the damage.

    During a televised news conference in Largo, Fla., the Piniellas-Pasco Medical Examiner, Jon Thogmartin, also said the autopsy showed that Ms. Schiavo’s condition was “consistent” with a person in a persistent vegetative state. That point had become a key issue in the debate over whether to prolong Ms. Schiavo’s life and whether she had a chance to recover normal brain function.

    Dr. Thogmartin said that recovery was not possible because of the massive brain damage that occurred after Ms. Schiavo collapsed in 1990. Her brain weighed 615 grams at the time of her death on March 31.

    “This damage was irreversible,” said Dr. Thogmartin. “No amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons.”

  48. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett August 21, 2010 at 10:11 pm #

    James: It is interesting but once again a person named “Terry” is in need of great help.Of course, everyone should be aware that in 2005, another “Terri” needed help – Terri Schiavo.

    Yeah, she needed help getting out of the terrible prison her body had become. Unfortunately, some people decided to intervene because they refused to believe what the medical experts had been saying about her actual state.

    It’s been several years since she died. I have yet to hear any of Terri’s “defenders” apologize for dragging her husband’s name through the mud – as good as accusing him of putting her into that state – or admit they were wrong about her diagnosis.

    If it’s another “terri” you want, you may get your wish. This IS a losing cause with the facts disputed only by those who refuse to believe them.

  49. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 21, 2010 at 10:45 pm #

    J. Edward Tremlett:
    Yeah, she needed help getting out of the terrible prison her body had become. Unfortunately, some people decided to intervene because they refused to believe what the medical experts had been saying about her actual state.
    It’s been several years since she died. I have yet to hear any of Terri’s “defenders” apologize for dragging her husband’s name through the mud – as good as accusing him of putting her into that state – or admit they were wrong about her diagnosis.
    If it’s another “terri” you want, you may get your wish. This IS a losing cause with the facts disputed only by those who refuse to believe them.

    Exactly that’s why this is all too familiar. James like the crazy circus protesters during the Terri Schiavo affair refuse to take the word of experts and instead cling to conspiracy theorists. I dealt with a lot of those conspiracy theorists back on AOL. Where people claim that some lowly guy like Michael Schiavo had more power than the government that he paid off everyone up to the governor, the police, her own family, etc. There was a wide conspiracy all centered around Michael Schiavo in their minds.

  50. avatar
    Ellid August 21, 2010 at 10:54 pm #

    James: Yes, who knows what their witness list might be?If Lakin intends to mount his defense he should bring the following the witnesses:
    Hawaii DOH Officials
    Tim Adams
    Lucas Smith
    Major Stephen Cooke
    Col. Hollister
    Pamela Barnett
    Charles Kerchner
    Alan Keyes
    General Valley
    General Curry

    Please explain how a convicted civilian felon like Lucas Smith will be of use to a military court. I could use the laughs.

  51. avatar
    Ellid August 21, 2010 at 10:55 pm #

    James: It is interesting but once again a person named “Terry” is in need of great help.Of course, everyone should be aware that in 2005, another “Terri” needed help – Terri Schiavo.I seriously doubt that anyone on this board supported Terri Schiavo’s right to live so I am not too suprised about the feelings persons have about Terry Lakin.In 2005, it was the Save Terri Schiavo Campaign.It is hoped with lots of teamwork and cooporation, 2010 will be the Save LTC Terry Lakin Campaign.

    You disgusting waste of protoplasm, using a family tragedy to make a cheap point! How DARE you! Have you no shame?

  52. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 22, 2010 at 12:34 am #

    Ellid:
    You disgusting waste of protoplasm, using a family tragedy to make a cheap point!How DARE you!Have you no shame?

    We’ve already established that James and his ilk have no shame.

  53. avatar
    Dave August 22, 2010 at 12:48 am #

    Ellid:
    You disgusting waste of protoplasm, using a family tragedy to make a cheap point!How DARE you!Have you no shame?

    Since pretty much every Republican in the country used that particular family tragedy to make a cheap point, repeatedly, for years, it seems a little unfair to single out James.

  54. avatar
    Sean August 22, 2010 at 2:30 am #

    James: It is interesting but once again a person named “Terry” is in need of great help.Of course, everyone should be aware that in 2005, another “Terri” needed help – Terri Schiavo.I seriously doubt that anyone on this board supported Terri Schiavo’s right to live so I am not too suprised about the feelings persons have about Terry Lakin.In 2005, it was the Save Terri Schiavo Campaign.It is hoped with lots of teamwork and cooporation, 2010 will be the Save LTC Terry Lakin Campaign.

    Sadly, Terry Schiavo was gone. Her eyes were open, but she was gone and not coming back. Prolonging death isn’t fair, for they dying or the living.

  55. avatar
    G August 22, 2010 at 3:27 am #

    James: The hearings are coming up soon.If Lakin and his legal team need more time, they can try to push off the dates.Of course, I suppose Lakin and lawyer can make sure that sprayed good and well by a skunk the night be the hearing.I don’t if they could conduct the hearing or trial unless everyone used gas masks.

    Sorry James. FAIL again. All scientific evidence showed that Schiavo was clearly brain dead for a long, long time before they pulled the plug. Let me guess, you believe the earth is flat too, don’t you?

  56. avatar
    AnotherBird August 22, 2010 at 3:36 am #

    Sean:
    Sadly, Terry Schiavo was gone. Her eyes were open, but she was gone and not coming back. Prolonging death isn’t fair, for they dying or the living.

    It was a very sad story and it couldn’t be more distant form Terry Lakin troubles. I think yours and others interpretations of Jame’s remark are correct. My guess is that he has been holding on to that one for some time for reasons I don’t understand.

  57. avatar
    G August 22, 2010 at 4:01 am #

    AnotherBird: My guess is that he has been holding on to that one for some time for reasons I don’t understand.

    Because James is one seriously messed-up individual. Crazy can’t be understood. If it was rational, then it wouldn’t be crazy.

  58. avatar
    Bovril August 22, 2010 at 8:16 am #

    Jimbo is merely re-iterating, parrot like, comments of other nutters in Birferstan. Based on the level of intellectual rigor noted previously he can’t come up with original items and certainly not argue or sustain them.

    Oh, as for Averna, he has plainly been out of legal circulation since well before 1994 as the COMA he refers is actually CAAF, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces.

    Dicussions if there is interest at the CAAF blog

    http://www.caaflog.com/2010/08/18/former-navy-jag-corps-captain-writes-to-ltc-lakins-commanding-general-concerning-alleged-threat-by-tc/#comments

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 22, 2010 at 8:27 am #

    G: All scientific evidence showed that Schiavo was clearly brain dead for a long, long time before they pulled the plug.

    I think Schiavo is an apt analogy to LTC Lakin, whose defense against charges of not following orders is clearly brain dead also.

  60. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett August 22, 2010 at 11:57 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I think Schiavo is an apt analogy to LTC Lakin, whose defense against charges of not following orders is clearly brain dead also.

    True, but much more tragic. Terri had no ability to refuse to be dragged into the legal and moral fiasco that surrounded her. Terry has had every opportunity to drop this farce, and refused to do so.

  61. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2010 at 7:05 pm #

    J. Edward Tremlett:
    True, but much more tragic. Terri had no ability to refuse to be dragged into the legal and moral fiasco that surrounded her. Terry has had every opportunity to drop this farce, and refused to do so.

    Unless he’s been drugged.

  62. avatar
    Black Lion August 22, 2010 at 10:11 pm #

    AnotherBird: Black Lion thanks again for the information that you share with us. I do like HistorianDude’s statement. What happened between Brodsky and Lakin continue to morph, which suggest Lakin’s supporters are trying to deflect from the fact that Lakin broken Army Regulations.

    No problem. I like to make sure we are all informed. Actually Historian Dude is a very knowledgable guy….And his comment was right on…

  63. avatar
    US Citizen August 22, 2010 at 10:53 pm #

    Hey folks. Remember? No personal attacks.
    James is a posting member and has a right to his opinions.
    I don’t agree with him, but DC did lay down some rules which the forum should maintain and it’s a reader’s own fault if they’re taking a sip of soda while reading about birthers.
    It’s been over 2 yrs now. Surely you know what will happen by now to screens, noses, etc by now if drinking and reading.

    James, I myself belief that while Lakin may not prove anything in regards to Obama, he may finally put to rest what happened to that last cup of strawberries.
    Geometric logic will prove this out.

    🙂

  64. avatar
    richCares August 22, 2010 at 10:59 pm #

    ‘..put to rest what happened to that last cup of strawberries’
    .
    as James twirls those marbles in his fingers.

  65. avatar
    Reality Check August 27, 2010 at 12:38 pm #

    Lakin’s spokesperson, Margaret Hemenway, was on the Andrea Shea King Show on August 23. King, Hemenway, and the callers were pushing all the usual lies. They hardly talked about LTC Lakin and his court martial for disobeying a direct order. In their fantasy world he is a hero. Most of the show was spent spreading the usual birther BS about Obama. The lies are too numerous to list.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/askshow/2010/08/24/the-andrea-shea-king-show

    One caller asked Hemenway if Pidgeon and Donofrio were working with Lakin. Hemenway said no but in a very obtuse way. The question is just after the 40 minute mark.

  66. avatar
    Black Lion September 1, 2010 at 12:23 pm #

    Fox News’ birther military analyst
    September 01, 2010 10:11 am ET by Matt Gertz

    In an affidavit reported last night by birther site WorldNetDaily, Thomas McInerney, a retired lieutenant general who now serves as a Fox News military analyst, says that he believes there are “widespread and legitimate concerns that the President is constitutionally ineligible to hold office,” and expresses support for an Army officer who is currently awaiting a court-martial for refusing to obey orders from his commanding officers “until the president produces his original birth certificate.”

    McInerney has been interviewed on Fox News at least four times in the last year, most recently on the August 29 edition of Fox News’ America’s News HQ. During that time, he has appeared in taped reports on five editions of Fox News’ premiere “news” program, Special Report.* He has also written occasional columns for FoxNews.com’s Fox Forum. Between January 1, 2002, and May 13, 2008, McInerney made 144 Fox News appearances.

    McInerney submitted his affidavit in support of a request for discovery from attorneys for Lieutenant Colonel Terrence Lakin seeking Obama’s “birth records.” On August 5, the Associated Press reported that Lakin had been “charged with disobeying orders after failing to show up for duty in Afghanistan and questioning whether President Barack Obama has the right to order him there.”

    McInerney writes that if Obama is constitutionally ineligible, “that creates a break in the chain of command of such magnitude that its significance can scarcely be imagined.” Citing the importance of a “unified chain of command” in his own experience commanding nuclear-equipped forces, the Fox analyst claims that “[t]oday, because of the widespread and legitimate concerns that the President is constitutionally ineligible to hold office, I fear what would happen should such a crisis occur today.”

    McInerney goes on to praise Lakin, writing that he “has acted exactly as proper training dictates. That training mandates that he determine in his own conscience that an order is legal before obeying it.” He also credits Lakin for “demonstrating the courage of his convictions and his bravery” by “invit[ing]” a court martial.

    The Fox News military analyst concludes:

    For the foregoing reasons, it is my opinion that LTC Lakin’s request for discovery relating to the President’s birth record in Hawaii is absolutely essential to determining not merely his guilt or innocence but to reassuring all military personnel once and for all for this President whether his service as Commander in Chief is Constitutionally proper. He is the one single person in the Chain of Command that the Constitution demands proof of natural born citizenship. This determination is fundamental to our Republic, where civilian control over the military is the rule. According to the Constitution, the Commander is Chief must now, in the face of serious — and widely-held — concerns that he is ineligible, either voluntarily establish his eligibility by authorizing release of his birth records or this court must authorize their discovery. The invasion of his privacy is utterly trivial compared to the issues at stake here. Our military MUST have confidence their Commander in Chief lawfully holds his office and absent which confidence grievous consequences may ensue.

    Of course, President Obama has released his birth certificate, which shows that he was born in Hawaii and is constitutionally eligible to be president. Does Fox News really want to keep someone so detached from reality that they doubt Obama’s eligibility on their payroll? Is he really the one they want serving as their military analyst?

    If so, that tells us even more about Fox News than we just learned about Thomas McInerney.

    * In the past year, McInerney has been interviewed on:

    -The August 29 edition of America’s News HQ.
    -The March 31 edition of Glenn Beck.
    -The November 29, 2009, edition of America’s News HQ.
    -The October 25, 2009, edition of America’s News HQ.
    -McInerney has appeared in taped packages for the August 4, June 25, June 23, May 27, and December 17 editions of Special Report.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201009010006

  67. avatar
    Black Lion September 1, 2010 at 4:33 pm #

    From the Post and Fail regarding the 3 star supporting future Levanworth resident Lakin….

    “Washington, D.C. — Retired Air Force Lieutenant General Thomas McInerney has supplied an affidavit in support of Army Lieutenant Colonel Terrence Lakin, who faces trial on October 13-15. The retired Air Force three-star is the highest ranking officer yet to lend public support to LTC Lakin. His affidavit acknowledges widespread concerns over the President’s Constitutional eligibility and demands the President release his birth records or the court authorize discovery.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/08/31/lt-gen-thomas-mcinerney-ret-provides-affidavit-supporting-ltc-lakin/

    And in the inmates rattling their cages…

    Joe The Blogger says:
    Wednesday, September 1, 2010 at 12:55 PM
    Has anyone approached Lieutenant General Stanley McChrystal on this? He is an American hero and is now free to speak out against the usurper Obama.
    —————-
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: I had read that someone from Patriots for America had tried to contact McChrystal. I’m not sure if they were able to or not.

    Joseph Maine says:
    Wednesday, September 1, 2010 at 12:58 PM
    Chance,

    Several things he’s done already are an “admission of guilt” (to us). You need NEW information or evidence.

    Why would SCOTUS say he must show something NOW?

    Yes, I think a procedure would take place to depose him. I was high on this happening in the past, but when the courts nor SCOTUS want to do anything about it, it’s pretty clear; they only think elections at this point are the way of proper correction. Sad, but true.

    James says:
    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 at 10:19 PM
    Can Col. Hollister, Cmdr Charles Kerchner, Major Stefan Cook, and Capt. Pamela Barnett submit sworn affidavits as well?

    ksdb says:
    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 at 10:44 PM
    What I see in the general’s affadavit is validation for the entire so-called birther’ movement. The faithers have been playing birtherism as a sign of extremism, ignorance, stupidity, racism, etc., and this affadavit completely undermines that tactic.

    Harry H says:
    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 at 8:50 PM
    Thank goodness for Gen. McInerney’s support of Col. Lakin’s search for the truth about Obama’s eligibility. However, I disagree with the part of the general’s affidavit that suggests information from Hawaii could ever “[reassure] all military personnel once and for all for this President whether his service as Commander in Chief is Constitutionally proper.”

    No, unless Hawaii has proof that Barack Jr. is not the son of Barack Sr., the very most the Hawaii info could establish is that Barack Jr. is possibly a U.S. plain vanilla citizen as well as a born subject of Great Britain. And a child with foreign citizenship at birth is sure as heck NOT a natural born U.S. citizen.

    Regardless of where the child of a foreign father may be born, that child does not naturally, automatically, indisputably become a citizen of this country and of no other country. Barry Soetero/Barack Obama belonged to Britain at his birth–if his father was the man he has claimed as his father.

    I would hope that Col. Lakin does not ignore the considerable body of evidence indicating that Obama Jr. was actually born in Kenya, according to which he is not even a plain vanilla U.S. citizen, much less a natural born one.

  68. avatar
    Majority Will September 1, 2010 at 5:00 pm #

    Black Lion:.Joseph Maine says:
    Wednesday, September 1, 2010 at 12:58 PM
    Chance,
    Several things he’s done already are an “admission of guilt” (to us). You need NEW information or evidence.Why would SCOTUS say he must show something NOW?Yes, I think a procedure would take place to depose him. I was high on this happening in the past, but when the courts nor SCOTUS want to do anything about it, it’s pretty clear; they only think elections at this point are the way of proper correction. Sad, but true.

    “Yes, I think a procedure would take place to depose him.”

    No, he doesn’t “think.” Arrogant, deranged fool.

    “they only think elections at this point are the way of proper correction”

    So, we know where “Joseph Maine” spreads lies when he’s not trolling or stalking here.

    These birthers are far past mild delusions and well into the realm of intense psychopaths. Birthers want to rewrite the Constitution to their whims and bigotry, promote sedition and and undermine the government, the democratic process and established law. The new birther Preamble.

    They might as well be getting funding from terrorist groups. They are volunteering their time to their cause anyway.

  69. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) September 1, 2010 at 5:09 pm #

    Majority Will: “Yes, I think a procedure would take place to depose him.”No, he doesn’t “think.” Arrogant, deranged fool.“they only think elections at this point are the way of proper correction”So, we know where “Joseph Maine” spreads lies when he’s not trolling or stalking here.These birthers are far past mild delusions and well into the realm of intense psychopaths. Birthers want to rewrite the Constitution to their whims and bigotry, promote sedition and and undermine the government, the democratic process and established law. The new birther Preamble.They might as well be getting funding from terrorist groups. They are volunteering their time to their cause anyway.

    I don’t think he goes there spreading lies when he’s not trolling here. I think that’s probably where a majority of our trolls come from when they decide to post here. It’s obvious from the echo chamberlike rants these new people go on when they post here.

  70. avatar
    Majority Will September 1, 2010 at 5:26 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    I don’t think he goes there spreading lies when he’s not trolling here.I think that’s probably where a majority of our trolls come from when they decide to post here.It’s obvious from the echo chamberlike rants these new people go on when they post here.

    More accurately then – sharing lies and holing up there before popping up around the web on birther missions.

  71. avatar
    Majority Will September 2, 2010 at 4:05 pm #

    Md. Judge Denies Request For Obama School Records

    FORT MEADE, Md. (AP) ― A military judge in Maryland has refused to order the release of school records that could include a copy of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate.

    The documents were sought by an Army doctor, Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin, who is being court-martialed for disobeying a deployment order because he doubts Obama’s qualifications to serve as commander in chief.

    The judge ruled Thursday that those records and any other evidence or witnesses pertaining to Obama’s birth are not relevant to the case and will not be admitted. Prosecutors have argued that Obama’s birth certificate shouldn’t be part of the case, especially since the order for Lakin to deploy to Afghanistan didn’t come directly from the president.

    Lakin’s lawyer has argued that if Obama isn’t a natural-born citizen, any military order given under his administration is unlawful.

    http://wjz.com/wireapnewsmd/Judge.weighs.Army.2.1892398.html

  72. avatar
    BlackSunshine84 September 3, 2010 at 9:40 am #

    Why doesn’t Obama just put an end to all this and sow proof he is eligible? He is eligible, right? It makes no sense at all for our president to sit idly by and watch a good man, someone who has served this country honorably, be court-martialed when he has within his power the ability to resolve this matter once and for all. LTC Lakin is doing what he feels is his duty as all enlisted men have a duty to refuse illegitimate orders.
    The judges ruling yesterday, denying LTC Lakin discovery, is troubling. She said discovery would embarrass Obama and that it is for Congress to impeach Obama, not the army. Who said anything about impeaching Obama? An illegitimate president is un-impeachable. And how could she possibly know Obama would be embarassed if his records were revealed unless she had collaborated with Obama on her ruling?

  73. avatar
    misha September 3, 2010 at 9:59 am #

    BlackSunshine84: Why doesn’t Obama just put an end to all this and sow proof he is eligible?

    An excellent point! I have found an authentic Kenya BC (Obama’s?), which may help your quest.

    Thanks for visiting.

  74. avatar
    Dave September 3, 2010 at 10:02 am #

    BlackSunshine84: Why doesn’t Obama just put an end to all this and sow proof he is eligible?

    Good idea. Here you go.

    As for the rest of your post, do you really think LTC Lakin would like your portrayal of him as a poor helpless victim?

  75. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) September 3, 2010 at 10:10 am #

    BlackSunshine84: Why doesn’t Obama just put an end to all this and sow proof he is eligible? He is eligible, right? It makes no sense at all for our president to sit idly by and watch a good man, someone who has served this country honorably, be court-martialed when he has within his power the ability to resolve this matter once and for all. LTC Lakin is doing what he feels is his duty as all enlisted men have a duty to refuse illegitimate orders.The judges ruling yesterday, denying LTC Lakin discovery, is troubling. She said discovery would embarrass Obama and that it is for Congress to impeach Obama, not the army. Who said anything about impeaching Obama? An illegitimate president is un-impeachable. And how could she possibly know Obama would be embarassed if his records were revealed unless she had collaborated with Obama on her ruling?

    Sow proof? is he planting crops? Tell me something sunshine how exactly have any other presidents shown proof that they were eligible? Obama was the only one to show a birth certificate to the public before he was elected to the presidency.

    BS Lakin is doing his duty. If Lakin felt he was doing his duty he would have refused every order from January 20th on instead of waiting for orders to deploy and then refuse. Obama being president has little to do with Lakin’s orders and that is why he’s in deep doodoo. Regardless if Obama was legitimate or not because of the de facto officer doctrine Lakin still has a duty to follow facially valid orders which he has not.

    Obama’s eligibility means nothing in the lakin case

  76. avatar
    Sef September 3, 2010 at 10:11 am #

    BlackSunshine84: An illegitimate president is un-impeachable

    So, what you are saying is that Obama does not need to consider his 1st term to be up on Jan 20, 2013.

  77. avatar
    Majority Will September 3, 2010 at 10:19 am #

    BlackSunshine84: Why doesn’t Obama just put an end to all this and sow proof he is eligible? He is eligible, right? It makes no sense at all for our president to sit idly by and watch a good man, someone who has served this country honorably, be court-martialed when he has within his power the ability to resolve this matter once and for all. LTC Lakin is doing what he feels is his duty as all enlisted men have a duty to refuse illegitimateorders.
    The judges ruling yesterday, denying LTC Lakin discovery, is troubling. She said discovery would embarrass Obama and that it is for Congress to impeach Obama, not the army. Who said anything about impeaching Obama? An illegitimate president is un-impeachable. And how could she possibly know Obama would be embarassed if his records were revealed unless she had collaborated with Obama on her ruling?

    He wasn’t required to show proof.

    However, your utter disrespect of the legal authority of the state of Hawaii is despicable and revolting.

    Are you an enemy of the U.S. or just an idiot?

  78. avatar
    Bovril September 3, 2010 at 10:39 am #

    BlackSunshine84: She said discovery would embarrass Obama and that it is for Congress to impeach Obama, not the army. Who said anything about impeaching Obama? An illegitimate president is un-impeachable. And how could she possibly know Obama would be embarassed if his records were revealed unless she had collaborated with Obama on her ruling?

    Blackie,

    I would suggest that you have a chit chat with a lawyer before making that sort of comment.

    The phrase “embarass”, taken out of context in your post, is a term of art by legal entities where they acknowledge the seperation between co-equal jurisdictions.

    Specificaly it means, in this case, a re-iteration that the judicial branchhas no right or authority to delve into another entities business, specifically political questions on the Presidents legitimacy which are reserved exclusively to Congress.

  79. avatar
    Arthur September 3, 2010 at 11:06 am #

    The next time someone asks, “Why doesn’t Obama just release his ‘long-form birth certificate’ and put an end to questions of eligibility?”, by way of response, you can share Harry H.’s comment (as supplied by Black Lion) in order to illustrate why additional information will never silence birthers:

    [U]nless Hawaii has proof that Barack Jr. is not the son of Barack Sr., the very most
    the Hawaii info could establish is that Barack Jr. is possibly a U.S. plain vanilla citizen
    as well as a born subject of Great Britain. And a child with foreign citizenship at birth
    is sure as heck NOT a natural born U.S. citizen.

    Regardless of where the child of a foreign father may be born, that child does not
    naturally, automatically, indisputably become a citizen of this country and of no other
    country. Barry Soetero/Barack Obama belonged to Britain at his birth–if his father
    was the man he has claimed as his father.

    Birthers don’t want proof, evidence, or argument–they just want a different president, and barring that, they want to defame the one who was elected.

  80. avatar
    AnotherBird September 3, 2010 at 11:20 am #

    BlackSunshine84: Why doesn’t Obama just put an end to all this and sow proof he is eligible?

    Birthers should sometimes come up for air. They are drowning with their inability to keep up with all their efforts to distort the truth.

    There is only one question. How long will Lakin spend in Jail?

  81. avatar
    AnotherBird September 3, 2010 at 11:26 am #

    Majority Will:
    He wasn’t required to show proof.However, your utter disrespect of the legal authority of the state of Hawaii is despicable and revolting. Are you an enemy of the U.S. or just an idiot?

    An Idiot … If they took just 60 seconds to honestly thing about their nonsense they would realize how insulting their nonsensical arguments are to the U.S., and to all those born as citizens.

  82. avatar
    Sef September 3, 2010 at 11:31 am #

    AnotherBird:
    Birthers should sometimes come up for air. They are drowning with their inability to keep up with all their efforts to distort the truth.There is only one question. How long will Lakin spend in Jail?

    They’ll also probably say that Lakin’s jailers at Leavenworth are part of the conspiracy because they won’t let him escape. Also the people who cut off his pay & pension. (It’s too bad Lakin is not in the Navy so he could look forward to spending time in the lovely castle in Portsmouth harbor, even though it is no longer in active service.)

  83. avatar
    Gorefan September 3, 2010 at 12:00 pm #

    Bovril: The phrase “embarass”, taken out of context in your post, is a term of art by legal entities where they acknowledge the seperation between co-equal jurisdictions.

    You mean like this:
    “This is a criminal case. The motion to advance is made on behalf of the United States, upon the representation of the Postmaster-General, in substance, that the questions in dispute will embarrass the operations of the government while they remain unsettled. As our rule has but recently gone into operation, we will, in this case, accept this statement as sufficient, and grant the motion. Hereafter, motions to advance upon this ground must state the facts in such manner that we may judge whether the government will be embarrassed in the administration of its affairs by delay. In the present crowded state of the docket, it is our duty to see that cases are not unnecessarily brought forward to the prejudice of others.” (91 US at 558)

  84. avatar
    Gorefan September 3, 2010 at 12:10 pm #

    Here is a simple essay on the use of the word “embarrass”.

    http://www.drbilllong.com/CurrentEventsV/Embarrass.html

  85. avatar
    jamese777 September 3, 2010 at 12:34 pm #

    BlackSunshine84: Why doesn’t Obama just put an end to all this and sow proof he is eligible? He is eligible, right? It makes no sense at all for our president to sit idly by and watch a good man, someone who has served this country honorably, be court-martialed when he has within his power the ability to resolve this matter once and for all. LTC Lakin is doing what he feels is his duty as all enlisted men have a duty to refuse illegitimate orders.The judges ruling yesterday, denying LTC Lakin discovery, is troubling. She said discovery would embarrass Obama and that it is for Congress to impeach Obama, not the army. Who said anything about impeaching Obama? An illegitimate president is un-impeachable. And how could she possibly know Obama would be embarassed if his records were revealed unless she had collaborated with Obama on her ruling?

    Obama already showed proof that he is eligible, six months before he was elected but the most rabid of his political opponents refused to accept the evidence.
    The most rabid of his political opponents would not accept any other proof that he might show so there is no reason for him to do anything other than ignore the birthers.
    The Governor of Hawaii, a Republican has stated that he was born at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu. The State Attorney General’s office has approved two different authenticating statements for his birth records made by the director of Health for the state of Hawaii. Seventy-three lawsuits have been adjudicated on his eligibility including eight appeals rejected by the US Supreme Court and no impeachment hearings have been held in Congress. There is nothing more to be done.

  86. avatar
    Rickey September 3, 2010 at 12:43 pm #

    BlackSunshine84: It makes no sense at all for our president to sit idly by and watch a good man, someone who has served this country honorably, be court-martialed

    Lakin stopped serving this country honorably when he refused to obey his orders to deploy.

    Just about everyone who was ever dishonorably discharged from the military had served honorably up to a point. Lakin’s prior record of service may have a bearing on his sentence, but it doesn’t excuse his actions.

  87. avatar
    sfjeff September 3, 2010 at 1:19 pm #

    “LTC Lakin is doing what he feels is his duty as all enlisted men have a duty to refuse illegitimate orders.”

    If Lakin were convinced his orders were illegitimate, then he should have just refused, and never asked for the birth certiifcate.

    But he didn’t- he refused because he questioned the legitimacy, and his superior officers told him he was wrong. Lakin is going to be convicted because he chose to disobey orders that he was repeatedly told were legitimate by his chain of command.

    I do not understand Birthers who advocate soldiers being allowed to require the President of the United States to prove anything before obeying a command from a superior officer. They never consider the future consequences. Just madness.

  88. avatar
    Arthur September 3, 2010 at 6:34 pm #

    “LTC Lakin is doing what he feels is his duty as all enlisted men have a duty to refuse illegitimate orders.”

    One thing: Lakin’s a commissioned officer, not an enlisted man.

  89. avatar
    AnotherBird September 3, 2010 at 9:42 pm #

    Rickey:
    Lakin stopped serving this country honorably when he refused to obey his orders to deploy.

    Just about everyone who was ever dishonorably discharged from the military had served honorably up to a point. Lakin’s prior record of service may have a bearing on his sentence, but it doesn’t excuse his actions.

    Lakin seems to have had a spotless record until this transgression, it may help reduce his sentencing. However, bithers like to use his records to indicate that he is still a honorably soldier.

    BlackSunshine84: It makes no sense at all for our president to sit idly by and watch a good man, someone who has served this country honorably, be court-martialed when he has within his power the ability to resolve this matter once and for all.

    Lakin was a good man until he disobey his orders. The only issue is whether or not Lakin broke the rules he stated he would up hold. If Lakin isn’t satisfied with the presidents records then that is his tough luck. 50 States have been, Congress is, the Senate is, and these are only a few.

    Lakin should state learning a new field, maybe he should study law while he is in jail. It may give Lakin the revelation that he needs to realize the idiotic mistake he has made.