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Angels and demons

Dr. Conspiracy

The biblical legend says that father Abraham once showed hospitality to a couple of travelers, and it turned out that they were actually messengers from God (what are called “angels”).

While I am just a commenter on events, some of the visitors here are part of the story, for example, Mark Davis, son of Frank Marshall Davis (“Frank” in Obama’s autobiography) left a few comments, and the great niece of Dr. Rodney West, who delivered her at the Kapi’olani hospital in 1961, dropped by. (The late Dr. West is currently the leading candidate for the doctor who delivered Barack Obama.) We’ve benefited from the contributions of other bloggers, notably Lauren Collins and Phil Cave plus NBC, Reality Check, (and many others) as well as practicing and retired attorneys. From the other side we’ve seen the likes of Mario Apuzzo, Cort Wrotnowski, Joseph Farah and Ron Polland (both as Ron Polarik long ago and more recently as PetJake).

I commented to Magic Bullet recently:

It is a huge challenge to respond with any freshness or interest to the same old, same old –” or to even pay enough attention to see whether it is the same old, same old.

And it is hard, I know. It’s easy to take out the frustration of being muzzled on birther blogs on someone. Nevertheless, the birther we trash just might be someone who has skin in the game and with a little hospitality might be coaxed into revealing a little about what drives them. Imagine the profound lost opportunity if someone like Terry Lakin showed up here anonymously, and we ran him off without the chance to talk.

Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

Hebrews 13:2 New American Standard Bible

85 Responses to Angels and demons

  1. avatar
    Slartibartfast September 17, 2010 at 12:09 am #

    Excellent post Doc, I couldn’t agree more. In addition, why wouldn’t anyone want an argument with birthers to be as polite, rational and fact-based as possible? Civility and reason only strengthens our argument.

  2. avatar
    SluggoJD September 17, 2010 at 5:06 am #

    Well I’m always gracious when I’m a visitor to my host…but I strongly disagree about being civil.

    Folks like Lucas Smith and Polarik intentionally lie and deceive. Go up and down the list of known birthers – Ed Hale, Pamela Geller, Farah, Corsi, Orly, et al, etc., and it’s the same thing over and over…people who have no honor or integrity, who lie and deceive on purpose.

    They deserve no respect.

    This is a war folks, a war that we did not ask for. And we who choose to engage because of truth and honor, better fight to win, or we will surely lose. Civility is not and has never been a useful strategy.

    Go over to Lucas’ little hole and politely tell him he’s a lying con artist, and see how far that gets you.

    Go over to WND and politely tell them that they have no honor, and see how long you’re welcome.

    This is a war, not a game.

  3. avatar
    Slartibartfast September 17, 2010 at 5:24 am #

    SluggoJD: This is a war folks, a war that we did not ask for. And we who choose to engage because of truth and honor, better fight to win, or we will surely lose. Civility is not and has never been a useful strategy.

    Go over to Lucas’ little hole and politely tell him he’s a lying con artist, and see how far that gets you.

    Go over to WND and politely tell them that they have no honor, and see how long you’re welcome.

    This is a war, not a game.

    I think that civility is a useful tactic – the goal of sites like this, in my opinion, is to prevent anyone who is not already wearing a tinfoil hat from being taken in by the birther lies. In what way does ridiculing birthers help achieve this goal? Giving polite refutations of birther theories with references as to precedent and statutes is a much more effective way to inoculate people against the birthers.

  4. avatar
    Lupin September 17, 2010 at 8:03 am #

    I’m afraid the analogy doesn’t really work — or rather, our “visitors” are not “angels”, but as the title implies, “demons”.

    Dr. C, would you be just as civil to “demons” visiting your home, or call for Father Merrin asap?

    No, IMHO I don’t think the analogy works very well.

  5. avatar
    AnotherBird September 17, 2010 at 8:19 am #

    Lupin: I’m afraid the analogy doesn’t really work — or rather, our “visitors” are not “angels”, but as the title implies, “demons”.Dr. C, would you be just as civil to “demons” visiting your home, or call for Father Merrin asap?No, IMHO I don’t think the analogy works very well.

    My interpretation is that;

    1. There maybe people who are just uniformed and confused on the issue of Obama’s citizenship.

    2. It is important to be informative and engaging in open dialogue.

    How should we engage those who don’t are uniformed or confused?

  6. avatar
    Scientist September 17, 2010 at 8:29 am #

    Doc: I believe the bible also says the following: “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

  7. avatar
    richCares September 17, 2010 at 9:03 am #

    “ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”
    — thomas jefferson

  8. avatar
    Lupin September 17, 2010 at 10:00 am #

    Beyond the semantics, I think we can all agree that we ought to be civil (and indeed are) to all newcomers — at least until they open their virtual mouths and identify themselves.

    I’m afraid that if Terry Lakin actually showed up here and identified himself, I would likely become uncivil very quickly. I might even call Father Merrin myself.

  9. avatar
    misha September 17, 2010 at 11:10 am #

    Sorry, but if you argue with a fool, make sure you’re not doing the same thing.

  10. avatar
    Majority Will September 17, 2010 at 11:11 am #

    richCares: “ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”
    — thomas jefferson

    Best quote I’ve read in a long time. Thanks.

  11. avatar
    ASK Esq September 17, 2010 at 12:29 pm #

    The problem I see is that the large majority of birthers who bother to post on the net are not people who are in the market for rational discourse. Rather, they are fanatics who are convinced that they are right, so when they come here, it is simply to tell us that we are wrong. They are not interested in even listening to facts or truth. Much like those who deny evolution or climate change, when presented with undeniable facts that show their arguments to be wrong, they simply act as though they didn’t hear what you said. That’s why it takes a miracle for a non-birther comment to get posted to a birther board. Basically my point is, why bother being civil to those who don’t listen to anything you say?

  12. avatar
    Lupin September 17, 2010 at 12:37 pm #

    If J Farrah agrees to post here using the nom-de-plume of Humpy Muffmuncher I promise to be civil to him. It will be worth it.

  13. avatar
    Gregory September 17, 2010 at 12:44 pm #

    misha: Sorry, but if you argue with a fool, make sure you’re not doing the same thing.

    In the same spirit:

    “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

    – unknown, attributed to Mark Twain.

  14. avatar
    Majority Will September 17, 2010 at 1:07 pm #

    ASK Esq: The problem I see is that the large majority of birthers who bother to post on the net are not people who are in the market for rational discourse. Rather, they are fanatics who are convinced that they are right, so when they come here, it is simply to tell us that we are wrong. They are not interested in even listening to facts or truth. Much like those who deny evolution or climate change, when presented with undeniable facts that show their arguments to be wrong, they simply act as though they didn’t hear what you said. That’s why it takes a miracle for a non-birther comment to get posted to a birther board. Basically my point is, why bother being civil to those who don’t listen to anything you say?

    Demands to amend the Constitution and U.S. laws with their crayons, assassinate people, overthrow the government by military coup, establish a Christian theocracy, and libel officials condemned for upholding the law also makes civil discourse difficult.

    9/12 Rally Sign:
    http://www.BradBlog.com/Images/ByBallotOrBullet_912Rally_DC_091210.jpg

    And ironically,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ballot_or_the_Bullet

  15. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion September 17, 2010 at 1:38 pm #

    The Fian warriors in ancient Ireland had the tradition of courtesy to one’s enemies. Which didn’t mean you didn’t fight them, but that a certain level of courtesy and civility was expected when handling them outside the field of combat.

    To a certain extent that’s the tactic I take with my personal interaction with the birthers. It doesn’t mean I won’t mock them and it doesn’t mean I won’t refute their lies.

    Basically I refuse to fall to their level. No personal attacks, and no censorship and deletion of posts. They want to respond, they’re welcome to.

  16. avatar
    racosta September 17, 2010 at 2:00 pm #

    neurologist Steven Nowegia writes that Birthers are a tremendous source of new patients, as such he strongly encourages birthers in their quest for insanity. He says “I can pay my childrens college education just by serving birther patients.”

  17. avatar
    Majority Will September 17, 2010 at 2:10 pm #

    racosta: neurologist Steven Nowegia writes that Birthers are a tremendous source of new patients, as such he strongly encourages birthers in their quest for insanity. He says “I can pay my childrens college education just by serving birther patients.”

    Economic stimulus plan.

  18. avatar
    Nate Farmer September 17, 2010 at 2:50 pm #

    Orly tweeted 3 hours ago …

    On October 30th she will carry a sign “After Obama will show his CT SS application and his LONG FORM BC we will restore sanity in America” about 3 hours ago via web

    Orly Taitz will join Jon Stewart Rally to restore sanity in America. about 3 hours ago via web

    Orly taitz will speak on october 9 in Surprise, AZ, Holiday inn “Barack Obama’s ollegitimacy to U.S. presidency”

    Let’s see who is civil and who is not …

  19. avatar
    natural born citizen party September 17, 2010 at 3:58 pm #

    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
    FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
    ____________________________________
    CHRISTOPHER EARL STRUNK, )
    )
    Plaintiff, )
    )
    v. ) Case No. 1:08-CV-02234 (RJL)
    )
    U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE, )
    U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND )
    SECURITY, )
    )
    Defendants. )
    ____________________________________)
    REPLY MEMORANDUM OF LAW IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANTS’
    MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
    By this Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”) action, pro se Plaintiff Christopher Strunk
    seeks passport and travel records relating to President Barack Obama and his mother, Stanley
    Ann Dunham, from the Department of State (“State”) and the Department of Homeland Security
    (“DHS”). The Court has previously dismissed all claims relating to records concerning the
    President, leaving only the requests for records concerning Ms. Dunham at issue. See March 16,
    2010 Order [Dkt. #31]. Defendants have now completed processing of these requests and have
    released documents to Plaintiff, subject to appropriate withholdings under FOIA.

  20. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP September 17, 2010 at 4:05 pm #

    SluggoJD: Well I’m always gracious when I’m a visitor to my host…but I strongly disagree about being civil.Folks like Lucas Smith and Polarik intentionally lie and deceive.Go up and down the list of known birthers – Ed Hale, Pamela Geller, Farah, Corsi, Orly, et al, etc., and it’s the same thing over and over…people who have no honor or integrity, who lie and deceive on purpose.They deserve no respect.This is a war folks, a war that we did not ask for.And we who choose to engage because of truth and honor, better fight to win, or we will surely lose.Civility is not and has never been a useful strategy.Go over to Lucas’ little hole and politely tell him he’s a lying con artist, and see how far that gets you.Go over to WND and politely tell them that they have no honor, and see how long you’re welcome.This is a war, not a game.

    I agree, Sluggo. I’ve been going to a FAUX News forum (gretawire) for about three years and have only posted there on this issue and have tried the civility approach, and it is useless on these fools when they are in the majority. When you post rational answers to their questions, their only response is to insult and call names. I don’t waste time with civility there anymore because I know that it will not be appreciated, nor will it be returned. Sadly, after a couple of years of experience with these idiots, I have learned to disarm their name calling up front by beating them to the punch.

    As ASK Esq said, these people are not in the market for rational discourse. Rather, they seek to force their false beliefs on everyone they talk to and insult all those who reject their dogma and/or refute it with actual facts.

    As I stated, this only happens when they are in the majority, so civil discourse should be a priority where they are not. Here at obamaconspiracytheory.org, they are not in the majority, and it’s nice to have a place to go where this issue can be discussed civilly. In the venues where they are in the majority, I just tell them to futtheshuckup

  21. avatar
    misha September 17, 2010 at 4:40 pm #

    Nate Farmer: Let’s see who is civil and who is not …

    Orly Taitz is a crazy refusenik, like Sharansky. I’ve met a few of them, and they are uniformly nuts.

    Sharansky, and Avigdor Lieberman the former bouncer, are the proverbial bull in a china shop. Was Orly a streetwalker in Moldova? She sounds like it. Her husband was a schmuck for marrying that shonde.

  22. avatar
    Bovril September 17, 2010 at 5:16 pm #

    Fit

    Ah Gretawire, so much joy……….

    I think I particulalrly love Logia (Orlys mad poster Veritas) with the habit of opening a thread and posting 3-6 “special posts” to open it and provides support by linking to ANOTHER thread of 3-6 posts by Logia.

  23. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP September 17, 2010 at 5:25 pm #

    Bovril: FitAh Gretawire, so much joy……….I think I particulalrly love Logia (Orlys mad poster Veritas) with the habit of opening a thread and posting 3-6 “special posts” to open it and provides support by linking to ANOTHER thread of 3-6 posts by Logia.

    That’s why I call her Baghdad Logia, Bovril. I checked in there last night, and she was posting that Pravda article about birthers from 2009 and trying to sell it as if it was something that was brand new. One of them actually told her a week or so ago to cool it with the Orly threads because no one was really interested in them

    I saw you there Wednesday evening. I think I came on just as you left.

  24. avatar
    Nate Farmer September 17, 2010 at 6:18 pm #

    natural born citizen party: UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
    FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
    ____________________________________
    CHRISTOPHER EARL STRUNK, )
    )
    Plaintiff, )
    )
    v. ) Case No. 1:08-CV-02234 (RJL)
    )
    U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE, )
    U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND )
    SECURITY, )
    )
    Defendants. )
    ____________________________________)
    REPLY MEMORANDUM OF LAW IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANTS’
    MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
    By this Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”) action, pro se Plaintiff Christopher Strunk
    seeks passport and travel records relating to President Barack Obama and his mother, Stanley
    Ann Dunham, from the Department of State (“State”) and the Department of Homeland Security
    (“DHS”). The Court has previously dismissed all claims relating to records concerning the
    President, leaving only the requests for records concerning Ms. Dunham at issue. See March 16,
    2010 Order [Dkt. #31]. Defendants have now completed processing of these requests and have
    released documents to Plaintiff, subject to appropriate withholdings under FOIA.

    Do you think the DoS reasonably completed its search and provided Strunk with the results?

    I think they did.

    I’m not sure we could learn anything more without seeing Barack’s passport applications. It’s obvious Barack was included on Stanley Ann’s 1965 passport application. I’m not sure any other information we could get from the 1965 would be useful in the eligibility question.

  25. avatar
    Nate Farmer September 17, 2010 at 6:24 pm #

    misha:
    Orly Taitz is a crazy refusenik, like Sharansky. I’ve met a few of them, and they are uniformly nuts.Sharansky, and Avigdor Lieberman the former bouncer, are the proverbial bull in a china shop. Was Orly a streetwalker in Moldova? She sounds like it. Her husband was a schmuck for marrying that shonde.

    You should go to Washington DC on Oct 30 and introduce yourself to Orly. I bet you to have more in common than you realize.

    At a very minimum, you could confront Orly and state, “Orly, you did not serve in the Israeli Army and I am angry about it.”

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 17, 2010 at 6:30 pm #

    SluggoJD: They deserve no respect.

    The thrust of my article was not respect, but dialog. Wouldn’t it be great fun to have Orly Taitz posting here? Respect? I think not.

  27. avatar
    JoZeppy September 17, 2010 at 6:43 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The thrust of my article was not respect, but dialog. Wouldn’t it be great fun to have Orly Taitz posting here? Respect? I think not.

    How much dialog can you have with someone who doesn’t have a clue what they’re talking about, but fancies they know the law better than virtually everyone in the actual legal community (see our recent visit by WND’s resident legal expert, the part-time paralegal)?

  28. avatar
    Scientist September 17, 2010 at 6:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Wouldn’t it be great fun to have Orly Taitz posting here?

    Not really. She would run through her talking points, which everyone here knows and wouldn’t respond to anyone who questioned her. Mario was amusing for a brief while, but quickly became very tiresome, because he just said the same thing over and over again and would never address questions.

    I see nothing productive in such discussions. In all honesty, Doc, you’ve done a great job, but unless some dramatic new information surfaces, there really is nothing left to say on this subject.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 17, 2010 at 9:57 pm #

    Nate Farmer: You should go to Washington DC on Oct 30 and introduce yourself to Orly. I bet you to have more in common than you realize.

    Glenn Beck was in town today.

  30. avatar
    G September 18, 2010 at 1:19 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Glenn Beck was in town today.

    My condolences.

  31. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny September 18, 2010 at 6:47 am #

    Nate Farmer: At a very minimum, you could confront Orly and state, “Orly, you did not serve in the Israeli Army and I am angry about it.”

    Hm, do we really know Orly did not serve in the Israeli Army? Of course, she could not have been at university in Israel and served in the Army at the same time, but it is only Orly’s word that she did study in Israel, rather than have her diploma declared equivalent with an Israeli DDS in Israel after presenting a dissertation or doing some practical test (well, she also unbelievably passed the California Bar examination). What did Orly do in Romania? She never explained. That was under Ceaucescu, by the way.

    When the Averbukhs left the Soviet Union, Orly already had studied two years at a higher education level. Since she spoke Romanian (all Soviet schools in Moldavia taught Moldavian as rodny yazyk and Moldavian is basically just Romanian written in the Cyrillic alphabet) a Romanian diploma mill (they still exist, many students from Western Europe, the USA and Israel are studying dentistry at Cluj) could have given her the years missing from the Soviet Union. She could not have gone back to the Soviet Union to “feeneesh” her education there, as refuseniks had promised to never come back (all their papers – including birth certificates!!! – were confiscated by the KGB at the airport where they flew away from the Soviet Union).

    I agree it’s conjecture, but remember how Orly immediately claimed the poor clerk employed by judge Carter did exactly that sort of thing?

  32. avatar
    misha September 18, 2010 at 7:31 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: I agree it’s conjecture, but remember how Orly immediately claimed the poor clerk employed by judge Carter did exactly that sort of thing?

    Thank you. Orly and the neocons are giving us a black eye.

    To the gentiles in the audience: the central tenets of Judaism are:
    – to save one life is to save the entire world
    – Tikkun olam תיקון עולם- tikkun is literally to repair; olam is literally the world

    To improve the world through chesed (kindness), tzedakah (charity) and tikkun olam (social action).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikkun_olam

  33. avatar
    Northland10 September 18, 2010 at 9:39 am #

    misha: Thank you. Orly and the neocons are giving us a black eye.

    To the gentiles in the audience: the central tenets of Judaism are:
    – to save one life is to save the entire world
    – Tikkun olam תיקון עולם- tikkun is literally to repair; olam is literally the world

    To improve the world through chesed (kindness), tzedakah (charity) and tikkun olam (social action).

    This is a wonderful example of what the 3 Abrahamic faiths (and I assume others) have in common. We all have those who give our religion “a black eye” through heretical actions under a cloak of righteousness.

    Ubi Caritas et amor, Deus ibi est – “Where there is charity and love, God is there.”

  34. avatar
    G September 19, 2010 at 2:11 am #

    misha: – to save one life is to save the entire world

    I’ve always thought that was one of the most beautiful sentiments ever to have come out of humanity. 🙂

  35. avatar
    AnotherBird September 19, 2010 at 4:02 am #

    Nate Farmer:
    You should go to Washington DC on Oct 30 and introduce yourself to Orly. I bet you to have more in common than you realize.

    At a very minimum, you could confront Orly and state, “Orly, you did not serve in the Israeli Army and I am angry about it.”

    Are you getting your dates wrong? Or, are you talking about “Rally to Restore Sanity?” Or, maybe is it a remembrance of her October 29, 2009 case dismissal by Judge Carter?

  36. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 19, 2010 at 7:57 am #

    AnotherBird: Are you getting your dates wrong? Or, are you talking about “Rally to Restore Sanity?” Or, maybe is it a remembrance of her October 29, 2009 case dismissal by Judge Carter?

    Orly has been making a big deal about Stewart’s rally.

    Yesterday Jon Stewart announced a rally against the fringe. An article on AOL lists me and James Carville as fringe on both sides.
    This got me thinking. Today is a special day of the year. In a Jewish calendar it’s called Yom Kipur. It is a day of atonement, it is a day when the Gates of Heaven are open for you to address god and for god to hear you.
    What is a fringe? In Hebrew it is called Tzizit. God told Moses to cut fringes on his garment, to add blue thread. God told Moses to tell the children of Israel to do the same generation after generation, and to use those fringes as a reminder of his commendments, to remember him as their god, who brought them out of bondage in Egypt.
    Think about it. When Moses told his people to leave their homes, to leave their belongings, to risk prison or possible death in the hands of an Egyptian pharaoh, to wonder in the desert, to expect the Red Sea to part in order for them to escape bondage, and reach the land of milk and honey, many considered Moses to be a fringe , a “Meshugeneh”, a crazy man. But today’s fringe is tomorrow’s leader, and Moses lead his people out of bondage.
    Susan B. Anthony was considered a fringe. In those years voting rights for women were considered to be ideas of the fringe.
    When Golda Meir left her home to build a new country, she was considered a fringe.
    Typicaly, the fringe in the society sticks out as a Tzizit on a garment. Why do people on the fringe stick their neck out, why are they ahead of the wave? There are a number of reasons, a number of explanations.
    Old testament has typically several layers of meaning, of understanding. For example, another meaning for Tzitziot, those fringes on the clothes, is, that those are a form of reception. It is easy to explain by using a radio as an example. What do you need for a radio? You need an antenna. For different radio waves, for different electro-magnetic waves, you need different antennas. It is believed that Tzitzit, this fringe on the garment, is a form of reception. Now, only men are supposed to wear clothe with those fringes, not women. Why? An explanation is, that women have a natural way of tuning in, absorbing this cosmic energy, called the word of god. Some call it women’s intuition, the sixth sense.
    It is interesting, that in this second American revolution you see women in the forefront. Sometimes consciously, sometimes intuitively they lead.
    Today we live in bondage. We are in intellectual bondage with corrupt regime propaganda media, which does not report the truth. We are sinking deeper and deeper in the mortar of intellectual, societal and financial bondage, but trust the people, who are your conscience, who are the fringe today. They will be your leaders tomorrow.
    Please, tune in to god’s word and god’s energy. Until 7:30 in the evening is Yom Kipur, it is the time, when it is said that the Gates of Heaven are open for you to have a dialog with god. You have it within you. You have an ability to brainstorm ideas, to figure how to get out of bondage. I firmly believe, that collective intelligence and collective conscience will help us brake the chains of bondage. Follow the fringe of your conscience.

  37. avatar
    Nate Farmer September 19, 2010 at 7:59 am #

    AnotherBird:
    Are you getting your dates wrong? Or, are you talking about “Rally to Restore Sanity?” Or, maybe is it a remembrance of her October 29, 2009 case dismissal by Judge Carter?

    I’m starting a write in campaign to have Orly appear on stage with Stephen Colbert in D.C.

    March to Keep Fear Alive

  38. avatar
    SvenMagnussen September 19, 2010 at 8:31 am #

    Retweet me:

    I’m starting a write-in campaign to get @DrOrlyTaitzEsq on stage with @StephenatHome Oct 30, 2010, #MarchtoKeepFearAlive 1 minute ago from web

    http://www.twitter.com

  39. avatar
    Magic Bullet September 19, 2010 at 3:22 pm #

    Nate Farmer: Do you think the DoS reasonably completed its search and provided Strunk with the results?I think they did. I am amazed at the DOS action in the Strunk case. Apparently in an effort to show that they made reasonable search for records, they located one 1980′s document which purports to describe an “unnamed” project which had over 40 employees, was located away from main offices, cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and resulted in the separation of millions of files and destruction of millions of passport applications. This document was not properly introduced into evidence, it was not authenticated(inadmissible), there was no provenance of the document provided and there was nothing in any affidavit concerning any off the above except quotes from the document. Did this document drop into the DOS and the court from outer space? I believe there is more documentation and witnesses for UFO sightings 25 years ago.

    In fact Galavich’s affidavit jumps out at you as missing all these details and more. A person who is Acting Director of the IPS (and in that department for over 20 years) which processes FOIA’s a person who has been an employee of the DOS since 1974, (and if the “destruction” is to be believed) surely he must have run into thousand of similar requests where documents were not located and must have used the same “cable” excuse in responses to thousands of other requests over the years? No one has ever questioned such a response before? DOS doesn’t have a better “boiler plate” response that they have used before many times for similar requests? DOS does offer to provide you with passport applications either through FOIA or search for a fee. From the GAO 1981 document one can estimate that the number of requests for passport applications older than 5 years was around 5,000 per year (15% of 34,000) in 1979. So the DOS before implementing this “project” knew they would have hundreds if not thousand of requests each year for destroyed records and they did not put in place either a mechanism to prevent ordering the records or a fixed response and supporting documentation for those records requests that would come up empty? Is our government that incompetent?

    DOS wants Strunk and Judge Leon and millions of Americans to believe that they instituted an “unnamed” project of this magnitude and importance and there is only one scrap of paper and no witnesses around to memorialize and testify to this historic “purge”?

    To add further insult to injury, the latest filing by DOS now names this mysterious document a “cable”. Interesting description that brings to question where is the originating document to this cable, you know the one on DOS stationary with a wet signature by the Secretary of State?

    Looking closer at Galvich’s affidavit (p12) he appears to sidestep the “cable” and disown any knowledge of it by his failure to authenticate it. He merely states “Plaintiff was advised in that letter (Roblins letter of 7/29/2010 -exhibit 6) that Passport Services did not locate a 1965 passport application referenced in an application for amendment of passport. The Department concluded it was likely destroyed as part of a records disposition project in the 1980′s in which routine passport applications and other non-vital records from 1925-1968 were destroyed in accordance with continued requests from the General Services Administration to reduce the amount of space used to store routine passport records and other non-vital records (exhibit 7).” Let’s see neither Galavich nor Roblin seem to put their name to this “cable” and appear to be tossing it back and forth like a “hot potato”. Why? If it’s true, why not scream it out loud? What would a cross examination or deposition of these two fellows and others produce? I find it incredible that such a large and significant project has no one claiming knowledge of or authenticating it.

    It has had over a month since Strunk asked DOS for documentation of the alleged passport records destruction, (8/9/2010). Surely they have had time to get someone, one person at least out of over 20,000 current employees and tens of thousands of retired employees to testify about the project,and have had sufficient time to gather the documents SF-115 and SF-135’s necessary to destroy government documents and produce those in court and slap Strunk down.

    Failing finding any DOS documents, surely a telephone call to the National Archives could produce these forms. They could have an archivist introduce the forms into court. (historical footnote, see Mary Livingston (dec,) testimony before Congress concerning Nixon papers)( http://articles.latimes.com/2007/mar/27/local/me-livingston27) Their silence in deafening. They do emphatically deny allegations of impropriety with a self serving statement, is that good enough? Is that admissible evidence?

    It appears to me the DOS has acted in “Bad Faith” if not worse in presenting this excuse to apparently try and make their search appear reasonable under the circumstances. I think DOS just opened Pandora’s box and the number of FOIA’s and lawsuits to follow will set records. Maybe we will have another Warren Commission and someone can find another “Magic Bullet” and tell us poor peons what they decide we should know.

    Next up the reasonableness of their search….laughable…..
    Of course then what are the implications….if true then why?
    ..and… What will index records show?

  40. avatar
    G September 19, 2010 at 3:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Orly has been making a big deal about Stewart’s rally.

    Ah, Orly. Her insanity has always included the biggest tell-tale signs: extreme delusions of grandeur on top of an excessively paranoid persecution complex.

    I think Sven’s idea to try to get her to show up on Colbert’s stage as part of “Keeping Fear Alive” is hilarious!

    I think I’m going to see what I can to do free up my schedule and make it to DC for those fun events. They’ve moved Trick-Or-Treat to Thurs 10/28 where I live this year, so that actually works out pretty well for me.

  41. avatar
    Nate Farmer September 19, 2010 at 3:40 pm #

    Magic Bullet:

    I certainly don’t want to diminish the work Chris Strunk has done. I know he has worked hard and put his heart and soul into exposing Obama.

    The problem with pushing the issue with DoS is that it won’t help further the cause anymore than it already has. I believe Stanley Ann striking out BHO (Soebarkah) is a significant clue to Obama renouncing his citizenship, but seeing SAD’s passport application(s) from 1965 or applications for travel to Lebanon won’t help expose Obama’s usurpation.

    Even if Strunk can get the DoS to admit there is a supplementary explanation for the name strike, it will be redacted to the point its useless.

  42. avatar
    SvenMagnussen September 19, 2010 at 3:45 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: Retweet me:I’m starting a write-in campaign to get @DrOrlyTaitzEsq on stage with @StephenatHome Oct 30, 2010, #MarchtoKeepFearAlive 1 minute ago from webhttp://www.twitter.com

    Thanks, Doc.

    http://twitter.com/DrConspiracy

  43. avatar
    Magic Bullet September 19, 2010 at 3:54 pm #

    Nate Farmer: I certainly don’t want to diminish the work Chris Strunk has done. I know he has worked hard and put his heart and soul into exposing Obama.The problem with pushing the issue with DoS is that it won’t help further the cause anymore than it already has. I believe Stanley Ann striking out BHO (Soebarkah) is a significant clue to Obama renouncing his citizenship, but seeing SAD’s passport application(s) from 1965 or applications for travel to Lebanon won’t help expose Obama’s usurpation.Even if Strunk can get the DoS to admit there is a supplementary explanation for the name strike, it will be redacted to the point its useless.

    Whether a 1965 passport application will show evidence to eligibility is only part of the question, could it show a prior 1960 or1961 passport? Would Obama be on Stanley Ann’s 1965 or earlier passport? Did he have his own passport or a passport from another country? Even if they redacted the application, the passport photo would not be redacted and would show if anyone else was on it with her. (see butterdezillions blog) Whatever it shows are we not entitled to the truth and a government that acts in good faith? Why would DOS possibly try and hide something that is not important? All information is helpful when putting together pieces of a puzzle even if it shows a dead end. It would lead one to look elsewhere for better trails. If they all show a dead end then that could resolve the controversy which is what I believe most people want. Not knowing is not good and devisive.Let the chips fall where they may.

  44. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 19, 2010 at 4:16 pm #

    Magic Bullet: …surely [Galavich] must have run into thousand of similar requests where documents were not located and must have used the same “cable” excuse in responses to thousands of other requests over the years? No one has ever questioned such a response before?

    I cannot think of any reason for someone who didn’t begin the process with the belief that the government was covering up something would be inclined to question the records destruction program. So I could well believe that Strunk’s follow-up questions are unique, or nearly so. Certainly if I had made a request about one of my relatives or myself (where virtually all passport information requests come from), I would not have given a negative result based on a reported records destruction program a second thought. I find the actual destruction program a thousand times more likely than a fake one.

    To add further insult to injury, the latest filing by DOS now names this mysterious document a “cable”. Interesting description that brings to question where is the originating document to this cable, you know the one on DOS stationary with a wet signature by the Secretary of State?

    Well, doesn’t it LOOK like a cable. Reading FOIA information from DoS in other contexts, one of the major sources of information is such cables, which are apparently kept. The 10 or so people who worked on the document are listed on it. Call them up. Put that hot-shot detective Jacobsen on it.

    It has had over a month since Strunk asked DOS for documentation of the alleged passport records destruction, (8/9/2010). Surely they have had time to get someone, one person at least out of over 20,000 current employees and tens of thousands of retired employees to testify about the project,and have had sufficient time to gather the documents SF-115 and SF-135′s necessary to destroy government documents and produce those in court and slap Strunk down.

    As far as I can tell with all the Obama cases I’ve seen, everybody waits to file until the last minute. I don’t know why but that’s how it seems. It may be that because of the Court’s scrutiny they are trying to be careful to make the search impeccably thorough. I don’t think it’s useful to prejudge the output until it happens.

    Next up the reasonableness of their search….laughable….. Of course then what are the implications….if true then why? ..and… What will index records show?

    Well this is a question of interest to me personally because it relates to my own FOIA. I have no background to judge what is reasonable and what is not. Strunk only asked for passport applications and that’s what he got. He didn’t ask about passports issued (nor for the index passports issued). You know the difference between a hostile witness and one who is lying?

  45. avatar
    Daniel September 19, 2010 at 4:24 pm #

    Magic Bullet: If they all show a dead end then that could resolve the controversy which is what I believe most people want.

    Most people would just like you birthers to shut the hell up and stop beating the dead end of that dead horse. The only contraversy is in your minds. The rest of us figured it out long, long ago.

  46. avatar
    AnotherBird September 19, 2010 at 4:28 pm #

    Nate Farmer:
    I’m starting a write in campaign to have Orly appear on stage with Stephen Colbert in D.C.
    March to Keep Fear Alive

    So, Taitz entire motivation was to get into comedy. Now, that makes sense.

  47. avatar
    AnotherBird September 19, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    Magic Bullet:
    Whether a 1965 passport application will show evidence to eligibility is only part of the question, could it show a prior 1960 or1961 passport? Would Obama be on Stanley Ann’s 1965 or earlierpassport? Did he have his own passport or a passport from another country? Even if they redacted the application, the passport photo would not be redacted and would show if anyone else was on it with her.(see butterdezillions blog) Whatever it shows are we not entitled to the truth and a government that acts in good faith? Why would DOS possibly try and hide something that is not important?All information is helpful when putting together pieces of a puzzle even if it shows a dead end. It would lead one to look elsewhere for better trails. If they all show a dead end then that could resolve the controversy which is what I believe most people want. Not knowing is not good and devisive.Let the chips fall where they may.

    No matter what people believe, everyone deserves a certain level of privacy. There isn’t a “controversy,” and going on a “witch-hunt” doesn’t accomplish anything. No additional information will satisfy those who want Obama not to be eligible for president. It isn’t a very complicated issue, and isn’t hard to be verified. It is over.

  48. avatar
    Scientist September 19, 2010 at 5:28 pm #

    Magic Bullet: Not knowing is not good and devisive

    Actually, not knowing makes life fun. Who would watch a baseball game if they knew the outcome of every play ahead of time? This silly “controversy” matters less than who will win the next Pirates-Nationals series. Just look around the world at all the important things that have happened in the last few years. The 1965 passport of someone who died in 1995 won’t even rate a footnote.

    Face facts. No one who lives in hawaii travels to Kenya to have a baby. It makes no sense. And, as Judge Judy says,if it doesn’t make sense, it isn’t true. That’s really all anyone needs to know.

  49. avatar
    Rickey September 19, 2010 at 6:03 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Well, doesn’t it LOOK like a cable.

    Technically, it’s a teletype message sent over the U.S. government’s secure communications system. The word “cable” conjures up an image of a telegram, which this is not, but it is not unusual for a civilian to call it a cable.

    R060330Z FEB 85 is what is know as a date-time group. “R” means that it is a routine message. 060330Z FEB 85 means that the message was created on February, 6, 1985 at 3:30 a.m. GMT (10:30 p.m. on February 5, EST). ZEX is what is known as a Z signal, and is an instruction to the receiving station about how the message is to be distributed. UNCLAS is the abbreviation for unclassified.

    I handled similar messages from 1967 to 1970 while I was in the Navy. There is nothing in the State Department message which would lead me to question its authenticity.

  50. avatar
    Nate Farmer September 19, 2010 at 6:05 pm #

    Magic Bullet:
    Whether a 1965 passport application will show evidence to eligibility is only part of the question, could it show a prior 1960 or1961 passport? Would Obama be on Stanley Ann’s 1965 or earlierpassport? Did he have his own passport or a passport from another country? Even if they redacted the application, the passport photo would not be redacted and would show if anyone else was on it with her.(see butterdezillions blog) Whatever it shows are we not entitled to the truth and a government that acts in good faith? Why would DOS possibly try and hide something that is not important?All information is helpful when putting together pieces of a puzzle even if it shows a dead end. It would lead one to look elsewhere for better trails. If they all show a dead end then that could resolve the controversy which is what I believe most people want. Not knowing is not good and devisive.Let the chips fall where they may.

    Let’s say you could see SAD Soetoro’s 1965 application. I think Barack Hussein Obama was listed as a family member (child) on her passport. Unfortunately, it will be redacted. We know Barack Hussein Obama is her only child at that time and it is highly likely Barack Hussein Obama’s name is blacked out, but we can’t prove it.

    Obama’s usurpation can only be proved by examing his personel documents and he won’t let us see them.

  51. avatar
    Rickey September 19, 2010 at 6:07 pm #

    AnotherBird:
    So, Taitz entire motivation was to get into comedy. Now, that makes sense.

    Of course, Colbert’s humor is completely lost on her.

  52. avatar
    misha September 19, 2010 at 7:12 pm #

    Nate Farmer: Obama’s usurpation can only be proved by examing his personel documents and he won’t let us see them.

    Sven: Uckfay ouyay

  53. avatar
    Daniel September 19, 2010 at 8:45 pm #

    Nate Farmer:
    Obama’s usurpation can only be proved by examing his personel documents and he won’t let us see them.

    Did you vote in the last election Nate? I havn’t seen any evidence at all that you are eligible to vote in a federal election, so I can only conclude that you are hiding something.

    Please post links to your long form birth certificate, all your school records, any passports or applications you may have, and your job history. Please make the links public so that “we the people” can make sure that you did not cast your vote illegally.

    The validity of your vote can only be proved by examing all your personel documents, and I’m sure you won’t mind showing them, since to refuse would be the hieght of hypocrisy on your part after demanding to see Obama’s.

  54. avatar
    SvenMagnussen September 19, 2010 at 8:55 pm #

    misha:
    Sven: Keep up the good work, buddy!

    Daniel:

    Here’s how you retweet … write “RT @DrConspiracy” without the quotes on your twitter message board.

    I see one person has RT’d Doc’s message. What’s your problem? Seriously, let me know. I’m here to help because I’m a helper. I like to help people.

  55. avatar
    jamese777 September 19, 2010 at 9:15 pm #

    Nate Farmer: Let’s say you could see SAD Soetoro’s 1965 application. I think Barack Hussein Obama was listed as a family member (child) on her passport. Unfortunately, it will be redacted. We know Barack Hussein Obama is her only child at that time and it is highly likely Barack Hussein Obama’s name is blacked out, but we can’t prove it.Obama’s usurpation can only be proved by examing his personel documents and he won’t let us see them.

    If any prosecuting attorney in the nation (local district attorney or county attorney, state attorney general, US Attorney or Special Counsel/Independent Counsel) had convened a Grand Jury investigation into Obama’s eligibility and whether election fraud had been committed, any and all of the documents you want to see could have been subpoenaed and witnesses could have been compelled to testify under oath.

  56. avatar
    AnotherBird September 19, 2010 at 9:50 pm #

    Nate Farmer: Obama’s usurpation can only be proved by examing his personel documents and he won’t let us see them.

    This is the reason that we call it a “witch hunt.” You have absolutely nothing to dispute that Obama natural born citizenship. Instead of admitting you are misinformed on this issue you to use words such as “usurpation” in hope that they will make your arguments. Thankfully, America is a country ruled by law, and all supporting evidence points to that Obama is the duly elected president of America.

  57. avatar
    AnotherBird September 19, 2010 at 10:01 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: Here’s how you retweet … write “RT @DrConspiracy” without the quotes on your twitter message board.
    I see one person has RT’d Doc’s message. What’s your problem? Seriously, let me know. I’m here to help because I’m a helper. I like to help people.

    Sven no matter how you paint an elephant it is still an elephant. Using yellow paint to convince someone that is it a baby duck will not work. … The words on this page can’t be changed by you editing the quotations of someones comments. The words in the original comment stays the same.

  58. avatar
    Daniel September 19, 2010 at 10:08 pm #

    jamese777: If any prosecuting attorney in the nation (local district attorney or county attorney, state attorney general, US Attorney or Special Counsel/Independent Counsel) had convened a Grand Jury investigation into Obama’s eligibility and whether election fraud had been committed, any and all of the documents you want to see could have been subpoenaed and witnesses could have been compelled to testify under oath.

    You mean except for the fact that only Congress has jurisdiction as far as the POTUS eligibilty goes….

  59. avatar
    Keith September 20, 2010 at 1:30 am #

    AnotherBird:
    Sven no matter how you paint an elephant it is still an elephant. Using yellow paint to convince someone that is it a baby duck will not work. … The words on this page can’t be changed by you editing the quotations of someones comments. The words in the original comment stays the same.

    Yeah, but it invalidates the entire comment doesn’t it? Shouldn’t the site software plaster an ‘Amended’ watermark on it so everybody knows it has been quoted out of context someplace else?

  60. avatar
    Nate Farmer September 20, 2010 at 5:55 am #

    Keith:
    Yeah, but it invalidates the entire comment doesn’t it? Shouldn’t the site software plaster an Amended’ watermark on it so everybody knows it has been quoted out of context someplace else?

    Obama created his own COLB to remove the word “AMENDED” from it and so can I. Besides, I was channeling Misha’s inner Sven so the quote is accurate to a certain extent.

  61. avatar
    AnotherBird September 20, 2010 at 6:12 am #

    Nate Farmer:
    Obama created his own COLB to remove the word“AMENDED” from it and so can I. Besides, I was channeling Misha’s inner Sven so the quote is accurate to a certain extent.

    And your evidence is …. ?

  62. avatar
    SvenMagnussen September 20, 2010 at 8:25 am #

    I just got the word the Architect of the Capitol has a problem with “March to Keep Fear Alive.” The “Rally to Restore Sanity” is okay.

    Everyone needs to change their tweets:

    Put @DrOrlyTaitzEsq on stage as a #write-in #candidate with @StephenAtHome #RallytoRestoreSanity

  63. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) September 20, 2010 at 10:11 am #

    SvenMagnussen: I just got the word the Architect of the Capitol has a problem with “March to Keep Fear Alive.” The “Rally to Restore Sanity” is okay.Everyone needs to change their tweets:Put @DrOrlyTaitzEsq on stage as a #write-in #candidate with @StephenAtHome #RallytoRestoreSanity

    Write in candidate? This isn’t an election its a rally. But I do find it funny that you’re pulling for Taitz to be on stage at the March to Keep Fear Alive rally.

  64. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) September 20, 2010 at 10:11 am #

    AnotherBird: And your evidence is …. ?

    Chocolate hamsters

  65. avatar
    SvenMagnussen September 20, 2010 at 11:59 am #

    Rickey:
    Of course, Colbert’s humor is completely lost on her.

    I think Orly does get it. She needs to refine her message. She’s off to a good start by talking about Obama’s Connecticut SSN. But she needs to stay away from the born in 1896 meme.

    She could push the Anti-Colonial view …

    Without Colonists, natives wouldn’t have birth certificates.

    There’s nothing to fear from Colonists, but fear itself and small pox.

    Feel free to add stuff.

  66. avatar
    Rickey September 20, 2010 at 2:24 pm #

    SvenMagnussen:
    I think Orly does get it. She needs to refine her message. She’s off to a good start by talking about Obama’s Connecticut SSN. But she needs to stay away from the born in 1896 meme

    Really? It’s my impression that the Connecticut SSN and the 1896 birth are inextricably intertwined in Orly’s brain. Are you suggesting that Orly’s data might be flawed?

    She could push the Anti-Colonial view.

    Yeah, colonialism is a big topic around the water cooler these days.

  67. avatar
    Majority Will September 20, 2010 at 2:29 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Write in candidate?This isn’t an election its a rally.But I do find it funny that you’re pulling for Taitz to be on stage at the March to Keep Fear Alive rally.

    The narcissistic fascist should try to storm the stage. She’ll then be promptly arrested and locked up by Mall Police.

  68. avatar
    Black Lion September 20, 2010 at 9:15 pm #

    Good response by General Powell (a true hero soldier unlike Lakin) regarding the birthers and the belief by those that the President is a Muslim….

    In a largely even-tempered appearance on “Meet the Press” Sunday, former Secretary of State Colin Powell did save a few harsh words for former House Speaker Newt Gingrich for propagating rumors about the president that he labeled “nonsense.”

    Asked to address Gingrich’s latest controversial comments — in which he insisted that President Obama suffered from a Kenyan anti-colonial worldview — Powell insisted that the former speaker was simply pining for the spotlight. He also urged Republican voters not to fall for the gambit or mistake it for serious or winning politics.

    “I would just tell my fellow Americans: think carefully about what was just said, think carefully about some of the stuff that is coming across the blogs and the airwaves. Let’s make a couple points: One, the president was born in the United States of America. Let’s get rid of that one, let’s get rid of the birther thing. Let’s attack him on policy and not nonsense. Next, he is a Christian. He is not a Muslim. Twenty percent of the people see he is a Muslim, 80 percent apparently do not believe he is a Muslim.”

    At this point, moderator David Gregory interrupted to note that even more Republicans (30 percent, roughly) bought the Obama-is-a-Muslim myth.

    “Well surprise, surprise. But I bet you a dollar if the unemployment rate was not 9.5 percent but it was down to four percent then you would find only five percent think he is a Muslim. So they are attacking the president on this line. But he is not a Muslim. He is a Christian, and I think we have to be careful when we take things like Dinesh D’souza’s book, which is the source for all this, and suggest that somehow the president of the United States is channeling his dead father through some Kenyan spirits. This doesn’t make any sense. Mr. Gingrich does these things from time to time, with a big bold statement. He did it with [Sonia] Sotomayor, she’s a reverse racist; he did it with Elena Kagan, she ought to be taken off the nomination for Supreme Court justice; and he does it occasionally to make news and also to stir up dust.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/19/powell-gingrich-obama-kenyan-worldview_n_730747.html

  69. avatar
    Black Lion September 20, 2010 at 9:21 pm #

    GOP, Palin endorsed and Tea party candidate Christine O’Donnell….

    “Delaware GOP Senate nominee Christine O’Donnell was scheduled to appear on two national Sunday morning talk shows today but canceled at the last minute after a video of her saying in 1999 that she once “dabbled in witchcraft” began making the rounds.

    Spurned hosts Chris Wallace of “Fox News Sunday” and Bob Schieffer of CBS’s “Face the Nation” both called O’Donnell out for not coming on their shows. Wallace noted with suspicion the fact that her campaign gave the show conflicting answers for canceling:”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/19/sunday-shows-christine-odonnell_n_730790.html

  70. avatar
    Black Lion September 20, 2010 at 9:49 pm #

    Interesting lawsuit by Lisa Liberi’s mother….Especially when she recaps the heros of the birther movement….

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/37573418/Liberi-v-Taitz-Opposition-to-Taitz-Motion-Document-144-8-Waddell-Affidavit-Exhibit-3

    “”Pamella R. Feldman, aka Heaven Feldman, aka Pamella Rowlette and numerous other aka’s – Florida
    Works with Orly Taitz on court cases and has worked with Taitz since in or about Oct. 2008 to current.
    Convicted Felon.Convicted of murder in Florida, sent to the State Psychiatric Hospital and was eventually released. Convicted of other violent crimes assault with bodily injury, etc. , Aggravated Battery.
    This woman has already threatened the lives of Lisa Liberi and Lisa Ostella on behalf of Orly Taitz. This information has already been filed in the case of Liberi, et al v. Taitz, et al, U.S. District Court, Eastern District of P:A, Case No. 09-cv-01898

    Cody Robert Judy born in Utah
    Worked with Taitz on Barnett, et al vs. Obama, et al as part of Taitz’s legal team.In 1993
    Cody Judy interrupted a BYU fireside where LDS apostle Howard W. Hunter was speaking. Judy held a briefcase containing what he said was a bomb, and in his other hand he held what he said was a detonator. He served 8 years in prison. He went back to prison in 2001 for aggravated Burglary.”

    “Walter Francis Fitzpatrick, III – Born in CA – lived in Kitsap County Washington, now in Tennessee – works closely with Taitz concerning Grand Jury
    There are many, many convictions throughout the years. Approximately 6 convictions of harassment, assault, coercion by use of threat, approx. 2 convictions of fraud, theft and many more. Currently up on more criminal charges, as he was indicted on the following: Rioting; Disrupting a meeting; Disorderly conduct; Resisting Arrest; Retaliation for Past Action (felony); and Civil Rights Intimidation (felony)
    State of TN v. Walter F. Fitzpatrick, III, In the Criminal Court for Monroe County, at
    Madisonville, TN Case No. 10213″

    Charles Edward Lincoln, III Born in Texas
    Part of Legal team for over a year.Worked as Orly Taitz’s Legal Assistant, prepared documents; signed Taitz’s name to documents, and filed them with Courts. Deemed a DOMESTIC TERRORIST BY U.S. MARSHALS AND FEDERAL AGENTS.
    Convicted Felon (convicted in Texas) – forgery of Federal Court document; and using a false social security number to open Bank accounts, etc.
    Disbarred from three (3) states, Texas, Florida and California
    See California Bar #171793
    Had a falling out with Taitz when Lucas Daniel Smith made public the adulterous affair
    between Lincoln and Orly Taitz

    Lucas Daniel Smith
    Witness and employee of Orly Taitz.
    State of Iowa v. Lucas Daniel Smith – Convictions: 3 or 4 convictions of Forgery by making
    false licenses, ID forms or Blank forms; approximately 4 convictions of theft.
    06571 FECR 23705; 05771 FECR 144901; 05501 FECR 007084; 06521 FECR 054329
    Had a falling out with Taitz when Taitz asked him to lie about some matters in Federal Court. He refused and wrote an affidavit to Federal Court, Judge Carter about the matter. Also swore that Taitz knew that the birth certificates of President Obama were fake when she presented them to the court.”

    “Lawrence Wayne Sinclair
    Witness for Orly Taitz
    Served three (3) prison terms (Theft crimes, forgery crimes) and has a psychiatric history
    including violence.
    Orly Taitz asked Mr. Sinclair to lie in Federal Court about some matters. Mr. Sinclair refused to perjure himself. He went home and wrote Affidavit and sent to Federal Court, Judge Carter about Taitz asking him to lie in court. Mr. Sinclair also mentioned in his affidavit (provided emails as proof) that Yosef Taitz was the one that forged a birth certificate (supposed to be President Obama’s) for Orly Taitz. ”

    “Linda Sue Belcher, Castorville, Texas
    Works for and creates documents for Orly Taitz
    Criminally convicted many times. Many marriages with many last names (approx. 10).
    Forged/manufactured email documents of Lisa Liberi – in Liberi, et al v. Taitz, et al, Case No. 09-cv-01898; Forged/manufactured chat logs in the name of Lisa Liberi – filed in above case.
    Well documented Psychiatric patient”

    ” Leo Patrick Haffe – Tennessee, County of Davidson
    Works with Orly Taitz drafting legal documents
    2009 & 2010 – Assault; aggravated Assault upon 2 prosecutors, prosecuting the case against
    Haffey. Taken to State Mental Hospital, placed on medication, back to jail; violation of
    protective order; domestic offenses.”

  71. avatar
    SvenMagnussen September 21, 2010 at 4:21 am #

    Rickey:
    Really? It’s my impression that the Connecticut SSN and the 1896 birth are inextricably intertwined in Orly’s brain. Are you suggesting that Orly’s data might be flawed?She could push the Anti-Colonial view.Yeah, colonialism is a big topic around the water cooler these days.

    One more for Orly:

    You can’t Amend the Constitution by Amending your Birth Certificate.

    And if you’re a Twitter fan:

    ‘tiz da way it is #becauseiamagangsta.

  72. avatar
    Majority Will September 21, 2010 at 4:48 am #

    SvenMagnussen:
    One more for Orly:You can’t Amend the Constitution by Amending your Birth Certificate.And if you’re a Twitter fan:tiz da way it is #becauseiamagangsta.

    You’re still babbling nonsense. Did you run out of sock puppets?

  73. avatar
    AnotherBird September 21, 2010 at 5:38 am #

    SvenMagnussen:
    … You can’t Amend the Constitution by Amending your Birth Certificate.

    Are you Okay Sven. They are different document. What were you trying to write on the back of your birth certificate?

  74. avatar
    Black Lion September 22, 2010 at 10:44 am #

    WND again shows why they are not only bad, but ugly at the same time….

    WND’s first national convention: A spectacle of birtherism and bigotry
    September 21, 2010 5:18 pm ET by Zachary Pleat

    With the guest lineup of World Net Daily’s Taking America Back 2010 national conference, it was no surprise that birtherism and bigotry were prevalent throughout the convention. After all, WND’s Joseph Farah and Jerome Corsi are perhaps most (in)famous for their repeated birther attacks against President Obama.

    Displaying shocking ignorance of his own publication, Farah kicked off WND’s first national convention by asking if “anyone at WorldNetDaily ever asserted” that President Obama “is foreign-born.” We can. It turns out that one of WND’s commentators, Craige McMillan, has referred to President Obama as an “illegal alien” in at least three separate posts on WorldNetDaily’s website. Despite Farah’s suggestion that WorldNetDaily held itself above the tired questions about President Obama’s citizenship, Jerome Corsi was quick to jump on the case.

    Questioning the president’s citizenship, and thus his eligibility as president, was not the only way speakers at WND’s convention attacked Obama. Speaker after speaker attacked Obama’s faith as a Christian. Jerome Corsi alternatively claimed that Obama “doesn’t believe in God” and that he’s a Muslim, Floyd Brown claimed that Obama “hates Christianity” and “is a Muslim,” while Aaron Klein said that the president “has a certain affinity toward Islam.”

    Other attacks against Obama included the zombie lie that Obama supported “infanticide” and an absurd demand by Corsi that Obama “come out and renounce Lucifer.” Floyd Brown also stated that the “most important step” for the next session of Congress is to impeach President Obama.

    Anti-gay bigotry was also out in force at the Taking America Back convention. WorldNetDaily founder, editor, and CEO Joseph Farah suggested gay marriage would lead to “sexual anarchy” and claimed that opposing gay marriage was akin to opposing “sexual offenses” such as “polygamy, incest, statutory rape, child pornography, molestation, [and] prostitution.” Noted anti-gay bigot Robert Knight similarly compared a gay marriage ban to bans on polygamy and incest. However, Jerome Corsi refused to be outdone in this vein, going so far as to link same-sex marriage to pedophilia and bestiality.*

    Speakers at the convention were also, to put it mildly, displeased with Imam Rauf’s proposal to build an Islamic community center in Manhattan to serve an existing Muslim community as a place for worship and community. After nine months of right-wing anti-Muslim bigotry and incidents of violence against mosque sites nationwide, WND’s speakers decided to rachet up the rhetoric against the Islamic community center by declaring that its intention is to promote further attacks by Muslims against America. Aaron Klein flatly stated that “the individuals behind” the Islamic community center in Manhattan don’t “have peaceful intentions.” As well, WND speaker William Murray said that the purpose of the community center is to host “raiders” to “do even more damage” in America.

    Just how does WorldNetDaily plan to top all of this with its next national convention?

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201009210051

  75. avatar
    Majority Will September 22, 2010 at 11:04 am #

    Jerome Corsi alternatively claimed that Obama “doesn’t believe in God” and that he’s a Muslim.

    Corsi is a moron with or without the oxy.

    Nazi, Marxist, atheist, Muslim, socialist? Pick just one, Fright Wing Squawkers.

    These aren’t Garanimals.

  76. avatar
    Black Lion September 22, 2010 at 11:21 am #

    More Post and Fail nonsense…Fearmongering and lying at its best….

    “The acknowledged step-aunt of Barack Hussein Obama, Zeituni Onyango, says that the United States is obligated to give her citizenship now that a judge has allowed her to remain in the country.

    Onyango reportedly “moved from Kenya to the United States” in 2000. She “fell ill,” reportedly lived in a homeless shelter for two years, and later began receiving disability income, despite the fact that she was ineligible. Her nephew, Barack Obama, is believed by many to be ineligible to have collected millions of dollars in campaign contributions and to serve as President of the United States because he does not meet the definition of “natural born Citizen.”

    ………

    “While cities are told by appellate courts that they cannot enact their own anti-illegal-immigration laws, others designate themselves “sanctuary cities,” in violation of federal law, apparently without legal challenges.

    Perhaps Obama favors illegal immigration because he is an illegal immigrant himself. Is there any proof that he is even a U.S. citizen?”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/09/21/obamas-aunt-zeituni-says-shes-entitled-to-citizenship/

  77. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2010 at 1:20 pm #

    Majority Will: Corsi is a moron with or without the oxy.

    Makes one wonder about the value of a PhD from Harvard.

  78. avatar
    Majority Will September 22, 2010 at 1:27 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Makes one wonder about the value of a PhD from Harvard.

    Have we seen the long form verification of his diploma?

  79. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2010 at 3:15 pm #

    @Majority Will: I have a copy of Corsi’s PhD dissertation.

  80. avatar
    Steve September 22, 2010 at 4:36 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Makes one wonder about the value of a PhD from Harvard.

    Like Michael Savage, he’s an educated man who knows how to manipulate uneducated people.

  81. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion September 22, 2010 at 4:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: @Majority Will: I have a copy of Corsi’s PhD dissertation.

    I have to wonder if it was printed on a roll of long, thin paper. That way at least it would have had some practical use.

  82. avatar
    Majority Will September 22, 2010 at 6:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: @Majority Will: I have a copy of Corsi’s PhD dissertation.

    Is it scratch and sniff or pop-up?

  83. avatar
    misha September 22, 2010 at 6:27 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: @Majority Will: I have a copy of Corsi’s PhD dissertation.

    He got it in the paper products isle.

    Majority Will: Is it scratch and sniff or pop-up?

    Shrub’s autobiography book signing is going to be at Toys R Us. It’s a pop-up book.

  84. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2010 at 8:35 pm #

    Majority Will: Is it scratch and sniff or pop-up?

    My copy of Corsi’s dissertation is on microfilm. His degree is in political science and the paper was about dissent during the Vietnam War.

  85. avatar
    misha September 22, 2010 at 8:51 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: My copy of Corsi’s dissertation is on microfilm. His degree is in political science and the paper was about dissent during the Vietnam War.

    I say he had someone ghost write it. If he releases all his transcripts, and produces a statement from his professors that he proved it was actually written by himself, I will change my position.

    The burden of proof is on him.