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Thumbs down

It’s encouraging to see the consistent rejection of birtherism by responsible journalists, such as this recent article from the Wausau (WI) Daily Herald:

Independent candidate for the 7th Congressional District Gary Kauther got some publicity this week when he toured the district on his tractor. In a recent interview with the Daily Herald’s Editorial Board, he also confirmed that he considers himself a “birther” — someone who doubts, against all evidence, that President Barack Obama was born in the United States.

He’s totally wrong, of course. Obama’s birth certificate has been made public and verified by the state of Hawaii.

People who hold ridiculous, easily falsifiable beliefs based on conspiracy thinking do not belong in government, and Kauther does not deserve to be taken seriously. The same standard applies to birthers, Holocaust deniers and “9/11 truthers,” who believe the U.S. government staged the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Kauther’s birther views are disqualifying.

It may be wishful thinking, but I hope that after they have had the opportunity to vent their anxiety over the economy, folks will make sensible choices at the polls next week. Democrats will lose some seats, as is always the case in mid-term elections, but perhaps not as many as thought. This is in line with a recent jump in popularity for President Obama as reported in a Newsweek poll.

60 Responses to Thumbs down

  1. avatar
    richCares October 23, 2010 at 3:07 pm #

    in a recent Spelling Bee, the birther contestants consistantly mis-spelled every word but one, that one word that they got correct was “FAIL” as they are so familar with it!

  2. avatar
    Sef October 23, 2010 at 4:19 pm #

    richCares: in a recent Spelling Bee, the birther contestants consistantly mis-spelled every word but one, that one word that they got correct was “FAIL” as they are so familar with it!

    Why do I think “Jay Walk AllStars” when the term “birther” is mentioned?

  3. avatar
    richCares October 23, 2010 at 4:25 pm #

    Speaking of FAIL, Berg’s Big Rally drew 3 Times the crowd I initiallly estimated.
    ( I estimated 4 people, 12 showed up).
    .
    it seems that birthers are really good at failure!

  4. avatar
    SvenMagnussen October 23, 2010 at 4:47 pm #

    So, you can be a tax and borrow to spend more thug-o-crat with latent tendencies toward cap-and-tax and that’s okay as long as you believe Obama was born in Hawaii?

    Could you set the bar any lower?

  5. avatar
    richCares October 23, 2010 at 4:58 pm #

    hey sven, keep plugging your garbage, go do it at the rally why dont you, you can make it 13 people!
    .
    there are people that oppose Obama politically and don’t like him, that’s OK, no problem with that. But being a birther, that is just silly. It gets you nowhere, you silly goose!
    .
    now why don’t you find and support a candidate to oppose Obama, let us know who that is, go vote in 2012. That can get you a little respect (you have none now)

  6. avatar
    sponson October 23, 2010 at 5:04 pm #

    Kudos to the Daily Herald for pointing out that it’s a “disqualifier” for public office to espouse birther beliefs. I’d very much like to see news outlets around the country extend this, however, to any politician who courts the birther vote by making friendly noises to birthers with ambiguous and disingenuous answers to being questioned about Obama’s eligibility. I think it’s the responsibility of any journalist to absolutely hound every politician heard making pro-birther statements until their position is completely pinned down, and it angers me greatly when some reporters seem satisfied to simply capture a piece of innuendo about Obama’s eligibility from a Senator Tom Coburn, for example, and then leave it at that. It’s irresponsible, sloppy journalism.

  7. avatar
    katahdin October 23, 2010 at 5:30 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: So, you can be a tax and borrow to spend more thug-o-crat with latent tendencies toward cap-and-tax and that’s okay as long as you believe Obama was born in Hawaii?Could you set the bar any lower?

    So Sven, or whoever you are, were you upset when President Bush and the Republican Congress doubled the national debt? How about when they shipped $12 billion cash money over to Iraq and just handed it out, with no oversight at all? I bet you weren’t.

    Shockingly, most of that money is now missing.

  8. avatar
    Mary Brown October 23, 2010 at 5:42 pm #

    The bar Sven was set when the economy came close to collapsing under an administration that seemed bent on exporting as many jobs as possible across the ocean. Let’s see Sven, how many jobs were lost in the eight years President Bush held office? I suppose if the bar were jobs lost and an economy based on housing bubbles you would win hands down.

  9. avatar
    obsolete October 23, 2010 at 7:31 pm #

    Sven and others will be shouting for “armed revolt” when the Dems don’t lose nearly as many seats as they are believing will happen.
    I can’t wait to hear all the “rigged voting machine-ACORN-black panther” talk after the election.

  10. avatar
    misha October 23, 2010 at 8:35 pm #

    katahdin: Shockingly, most of that money is now missing.

    I’m shocked, just shocked.

  11. avatar
    Arthur October 23, 2010 at 9:56 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: So, you can be a tax and borrow to spend more thug-o-crat with latent tendencies toward cap-and-tax and that’s okay as long as you believe Obama was born in Hawaii?

    Brilliant analysis from Sven; it’s almost comprehensible. I can only imagine his next post . . . “blah, blah, blah; taxed enough for Freddy; jibber-jabber, jibber-jabber; second amendment herbal remedies; clang, clang, clang; Obama’s not a cinnamon.”

  12. avatar
    Arthur October 23, 2010 at 10:02 pm #

    richCares: Speaking of FAIL, Berg’s Big Rally drew 3 Times the crowd I initiallly estimated.
    ( I estimated 4 people, 12 showed up).
    .
    it seems that birthers are really good at failure!

    Now wait just a minute! Phil “Ice-Man” Berg told WND that there at least 200 people at his rally. I hope you’re not calling Mr. Berg a liar, because that would be really hard on him right now.

  13. avatar
    Arthur October 23, 2010 at 10:06 pm #

    katahdin:
    So Sven, or whoever you are, were you upset when President Bush and the Republican Congress doubled the national debt? How about when they shipped $12 billion cash money over to Iraq and just handed it out, with no oversight at all? I bet you weren’t. Shockingly, most of that money is now missing.

    That money isn’t missing–most of it can be found in Halliburton’s profit statements.

  14. avatar
    Arthur October 23, 2010 at 10:11 pm #

    obsolete: I can’t wait to hear all the “rigged voting machine-ACORN-black panther” talk after the election.

    And I’m looking forward to seeing, “A Black Acorn Stole My Vote–and All I Got Was This Lousy T-shirt”

  15. avatar
    Steve October 23, 2010 at 11:04 pm #

    Kauther reminds me of the subject of an English soccer hooligans’ chant. When their team is playing a team from a rural area they yell “I can’t read! I can’t write! But I can drive a tractor!”

  16. avatar
    ellid October 24, 2010 at 12:23 am #

    SvenMagnussen: So, you can be a tax and borrow to spend more thug-o-crat with latent tendencies toward cap-and-tax and that’s okay as long as you believe Obama was born in Hawaii?Could you set the bar any lower?

    Please express yourself in coherent English. No one around here speaks Wendish.

  17. avatar
    misha October 24, 2010 at 12:49 am #

    Arthur: Berg told WND that there at least 200 people at his rally.

    Yeah, tourists who saw the port-o-potties, and waited. I’m really embarassed that we produce people like Berg, Taitz, Lieberman (both) and the neocons.

  18. avatar
    richCares October 24, 2010 at 1:14 am #

    “Yeah, tourists who saw the port-o-potties”
    no Misha, I have it on firm ground that the 12 Berg supporters merged with a capital city tour group of 60 people and took pictures. Good way to beef up the count.

  19. avatar
    obsolete October 24, 2010 at 1:24 am #

    misha: I’m really embarassed that we produce people like Berg, Taitz, Lieberman (both) and the neocons.

    Me too, but I am really proud that are side doesn’t call for the extermination of our political enemies, and that even with the ever-increasing right-wing violence in the USA, it is still only a tiny blip compared to what goes on in some other places.

  20. avatar
    LCDR USN RET October 24, 2010 at 3:57 am #

    Berg was promoting that there would be close to a million. This is what he got. Needs to go back to chasing ambulances. Quote is from RESISTNET.

    “Berg told WND that though the crowd, which he estimated at a couple of hundred, was smaller than anticipated, he still considered the event a success – in part, because of what he hopes it will inspire.
    “The feedback we received was that the attendees are going to go back and spread the word,” he said. “Groups of six or so are planning to get together at intersections with signs that read, ‘Where’s the birth certificate?”‘

  21. avatar
    charo October 24, 2010 at 8:00 am #

    Judge orders Miller documents released

    FAIRBANKS — A judge ruled Saturday that the Fairbanks North Star Borough must release personnel records of U.S. Senate candidate Joe Miller. In an unusual weekend hearing, retired Superior Court Judge Winston Burbank ruled that the public’s right to know about candidates outweighed Miller’s right to privacy.

    “It’s not correct to argue that merely by running for U.S. Senate, that somehow everything in your past: your school transcripts, your medical records, your birth certificate, or your personnel file, suddenly magically convert to public records,” Van Flein said.

    Burbank rejected that argument in his ruling, saying that people who run for office expect their past will be researched and revealed.

    Read more: http://www.adn.com/2010/10/23/1515937/judge-orders-miller-documents.html#ixzz13HDJo6CU

  22. avatar
    DaveH October 24, 2010 at 8:40 am #

    charo: Judge orders Miller documents releasedFAIRBANKS — A judge ruled Saturday that the Fairbanks North Star Borough must release personnel records of U.S. Senate candidate Joe Miller. In an unusual weekend hearing, retired Superior Court Judge Winston Burbank ruled that the public’s right to know about candidates outweighed Miller’s right to privacy.…“It’s not correct to argue that merely by running for U.S. Senate, that somehow everything in your past: your school transcripts, your medical records, your birth certificate, or your personnel file, suddenly magically convert to public records,” Van Flein said.Burbank rejected that argument in his ruling, saying that people who run for office expect their past will be researched and revealed.…Read more: http://www.adn.com/2010/10/23/1515937/judge-orders-miller-documents.html#ixzz13HDJo6CU

    And President Obama had to release the same records and have the same kind of background check done on him when he ran for the Senate. Just because birfers are blind to that fact doesn’t give them the right to continuously claim that President Obama has not already provided them. Contrary to birfer belief, we know more about President Obama than any other prior president.

  23. avatar
    charo October 24, 2010 at 12:24 pm #

    DaveH:
    And President Obama had to release the same records and have the same kind of background check done on him when he ran for the Senate. Just because birfers are blind to that fact doesn’t give them the right to continuously claim that President Obama has not already provided them. Contrary to birfer belief, we know more about President Obama than any other prior president.

    President Obama did not have all records publicly released.

  24. avatar
    Lupin October 24, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: So, you can be a tax and borrow to spend more thug-o-crat with latent tendencies toward cap-and-tax

    But in all honesty doesn’t that exactly describe the Republican administration of the last 8 years?

    Either you’re a fool to not see it, or more likely you’re a caveman who believes anything is OK when his tribe does it.

  25. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross October 24, 2010 at 12:35 pm #

    Ive ran into those types extreme partisans who say its a good idea when their party does something but a bad idea when the other party does it

    Lupin:
    But in all honesty doesn’t that exactly describe the Republican administration of the last 8 years?Either you’re a fool to not see it, or more likely you’re a caveman who believes anything is OK when his tribe does it.

  26. avatar
    Dave October 24, 2010 at 12:41 pm #

    charo:
    President Obama didnot have all records publicly released.

    No, and the records of Miller’s that are the subject of this story certainly aren’t “all records” either.

    DaveH:
    And President Obama had to release the same records and have the same kind of background check done on him when he ran for the Senate.

    I don’t know what you mean by “the same records.”

    In any case, the wingnuts attempts to draw some analogy between this case and the President becomes clear as mud once you look into the details. The judge did not order the release of all records related to Miller’s employment as an attorney for Fairbanks North Star Borough. Many records will not be released, and other records will be redacted before release.

    The information the newspapers are seeking relate to disciplinary actions that the Borough took against Miller, which we know about because of a statement by a former mayor. And in regard to any analogy to the President, let me stress that the reason the newspapers are looking into it is that there is actual reason to believe there was a disciplinary action — not just a completely baseless fishing expedition/smear campaign.

  27. avatar
    charo October 24, 2010 at 1:08 pm #

    Dave: I don’t know what you mean by “the same records.”

    Read again:

    “It’s not correct to argue that merely by running for U.S. Senate, that somehow everything in your past: your school transcripts, your medical records, your birth certificate, or your personnel file, suddenly magically convert to public records,” Van Flein said.

    Burbank rejected that argument in his ruling, saying that people who run for office expect their past will be researched and revealed.

    This judge believes that the privacy of your transcripts, medical records, birth certificate, personnel file are outweighed by the public’s right to know.

  28. avatar
    charo October 24, 2010 at 1:10 pm #

    THis is not about the newspapers; it is about the view of the judge.

    “Burbank rejected that argument in his ruling, saying that people who run for office expect their past will be researched and revealed.” (from the article)

  29. avatar
    Rickey October 24, 2010 at 3:09 pm #

    charo: Burbank rejected that argument in his ruling, saying that people who run for office expect their past will be researched and revealed.

    You neglected to quote this part of the story:

    The judge said that about 30 of the documents being sought would not be released. Twice that number would be redacted.

    There is no equivalence between Miller’s situation and the birther demands for Obama’s records. The public has a legitimate interest in knowing the details of Miller’s performance as a public servant with the Fairbanks North Star Borough. But the records which the public is entitled to see do not include Miller’s birth certificate, or his Social Security Number, or his passport records, or his kindergarten records. I am sure that all such private data will be redacted.

    If, as has been reported, Miller was disciplined for ethics violations while he was a government employee, the voters have a right to know about it.

  30. avatar
    charo October 24, 2010 at 3:40 pm #

    Rickey: The judge said that about 30 of the documents being sought would not be released. Twice that number would be redacted.

    I saw that. But the quotes by the judge concerning the right of privacy being overridden by the public’s right to know were strong.

    Rickey: If, as has been reported, Miller was disciplined for ethics violations while he was a government employee, the voters have a right to know about it.

    I agree.

  31. avatar
    Rickey October 24, 2010 at 3:41 pm #

    Orly apparently has sent in her cert petition regarding the sanctions against her in the Rhodes case. I say “apparently” because it is not yet showing up on the docket at SCOTUS.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/39903386/RHODES-v-MacDONALD-U-S-SUPREME-COURT-Petition-for-Writ-of-Certiorari-10-21-10-Taitz-USSC-Pet-for-Writ

    It’s the usual re-hash of all of her discredited arguments. The interesting thing to me is that she lists Connie Rhodes as the petitioner and she lists herself as “Attorney for the Petitioner.” How can she be the attorney for the petitioner when her client fired her?

  32. avatar
    Daniel October 24, 2010 at 3:47 pm #

    charo: President Obama did not have all records publicly released.

    He had all the records that were required released

  33. avatar
    Daniel October 24, 2010 at 3:53 pm #

    charo: But the quotes by the judge concerning the right of privacy being overridden by the public’s right to know were strong

    Yes but you’re neglecting context…. again.

    The attorney Said that records do not automatically become public.

    The judge rejected that arguement based on the public’s right to know.

    The public’s right to know that the Judge was referring to wasn’t a blanket “right” to invade the privacy of every elected official and find out what brand of condoms he used in a college sexual liason thirty years ago.

    The public has a right to know…when the public has a legal requirement.

    In this case the judge ruled the public had a right to know SOME details of the individual relating to disciplinary actions taken against him.

    The Judge did NOT rule that the public has a right to every detail of every private moment of every elected offiicial.

    Birthers really need to read before getting excited.

  34. avatar
    Rickey October 24, 2010 at 3:54 pm #

    charo:
    I saw that.But the quotes by the judge concerning the right of privacy being overridden by the public’s right to know were strong.

    But he never said that all right of privacy is being overridden, The fact that he has exempted 30 pages of documents and is redacting 60 pages of documents makes it clear that Miller’s records which are protected by privacy statutes will continue to be protected.

    Miller’s attorney is trying to spin this to make it look as though the judge is ordering the release of private data such as medical records, but there is nothing in the judge’s order which suggests that. This quote from Miller’s attorney is completely misleading:

    “It’s not correct to argue that merely by running for U.S. Senate, that somehow everything in your past: your school transcripts, your medical records, your birth certificate, or your personnel file, suddenly magically convert to public records,” Van Flein said.

    Nobody has asked for Miller’s school transcripts, medical records, or birth certificate. They have asked only for portions of his personnel file.

  35. avatar
    gorefan October 24, 2010 at 3:56 pm #

    charo: I saw that. But the quotes by the judge concerning the right of privacy being overridden by the public’s right to know were strong.

    Charo may be correct but the article does not quote Judge Burbank directly.

    ” ‘It’s not correct to argue that merely by running for U.S. Senate, that somehow everything in your past: your school transcripts, your medical records, your birth certificate, or your personnel file, suddenly magically convert to public records,’ Van Flein said.

    Burbank rejected that argument in his ruling, saying that people who run for office expect their past will be researched and revealed. ”

    It would be best to wait for the actual transcript of the ruling to see what Judge Burbank actually said.

  36. avatar
    charo October 24, 2010 at 4:11 pm #

    Rickey: Nobody has asked for Miller’s school transcripts, medical records, or birth certificate. They have asked only for portions of his personnel file.

    We don’t know what would have happened had those items been requested. You are assuming they would be denied. We also don’t know why the other documents were denied. Did they involve the privacy of innocent parties? Attorney/client privilege? But it would be interesting to see the transcript.

    This was quoted:

    “I hold that although Mr. Miller has a legitimate expectation of privacy in those documents, Mr. Miller’s right to privacy is indeed outweighed by the public’s significant interest in the background of a public figure who is running for the U.S. Senate,” the judge said.

    Read more: http://www.adn.com/2010/10/23/1515937/judge-orders-miller-documents.html#ixzz13JDbHbdM

  37. avatar
    J Maine October 24, 2010 at 4:35 pm #

    DaveH: And President Obama had to release the same records and have the same kind of background check done on him when he ran for the Senate. Just because birfers are blind to that fact doesn’t give them the right to continuously claim that President Obama has not already provided them. Contrary to birfer belief, we know more about President Obama than any other prior president.

    We don’t know anything about Obama, still? What are you talking about?

    Obviously you don’t recall how we know that:

    GW Bush’s GPA at Yale was higher than Kerry’s (to his embarrassment).
    Medical history of previous presidents exist with details, including McCain

    Obama has hidden everything about his college life, EVERYTHING
    He’s hidden details of his vital records, none of which have been explained by any authority, he’s hidden medical record, including supposed birth at Kapiolani (because he wasn’t born there)

    Mr. Transparency is anything but it

  38. avatar
    richCares October 24, 2010 at 4:53 pm #

    including supposed birth at Kapiolani (because he wasn’t born there)

    That’s is a strange thing to say, Kapi’olani acknowledge the birth in their 100 anniversary magazine with the included Obama letter on page 6 where Obama states on Kapi’olani “…place of my birth”.
    hospital mag link:
    http://www.kapiolanigift.org/doc/centennial-magazine.pdf
    .
    does hating Obama cause you to say “he wasn’t born there” or you just didn’t know?

  39. avatar
    Rickey October 24, 2010 at 5:28 pm #

    charo:
    We don’t know what would have happened had those items been requested.You are assuming they would be denied.

    No, I know that requests for Miller’s birth certificate, Social Security Number, medical records and passport would be denied. I also know that those items were not specifically requested. All of the news stories about this agree that the requests are for Miller’s personnel records while he was employed by Fairbanks North Star Borough.

    Anyone who is familiar with personnel records know that they inevitably contain some personal information which is protected by state and Federal privacy statutes. The records surely include Miller’s SSN, which will not be released. They may include some medical records; those also will not be released. I doubt that his personnel records include a copy of his birth certificate, but if so that also will not be released.

    You keep selectively quoting the judge to make it appear that he is saying that Miller has no expectation of privacy. But the judge didn’t say that, and the fact that 90 pages of personnel records are being withheld or redacted is proof enough that the judge has not ruled that Miller has no right to privacy.

    We will learn what is being released if Miller loses his appeal. If the records are released, I guarantee you that they will not include the following:

    Miller’s Social Security Number
    Miller’s birth certificate
    Miller’s school records
    Miller’s passport
    Miller’s medical records

  40. avatar
    mystylplx October 24, 2010 at 5:34 pm #

    Medical history of previous presidents exist with details, including McCainObama has hidden everything about his college life, EVERYTHING
    He’s hidden details of his vital records, none of which have been explained by any authority, he’s hidden medical record, including supposed birth at Kapiolani (because he wasn’t born there)Mr. Transparency is anything but it

    Transparency is about what he does in office, not about his private information. Transparency doesn’t mean you get to read his high school diary, for example.

    Yet as far as that goes, GWB never showed his birth certificate to the public. Obama has done so. And would you like to know which other Presidents never revealed their college transcripts? Bill Clinton, Bush Sr., and Ronald Reagan to name just the most recent.

  41. avatar
    Majority Will October 24, 2010 at 5:45 pm #

    J Maine:
    We don’t know anything about Obama, still? What are you talking about?Obviously you don’t recall how we know that:GW Bush’s GPA at Yale was higher than Kerry’s (to his embarrassment).
    Medical history of previous presidents exist with details, including McCainObama has hidden everything about his college life, EVERYTHING
    He’s hidden details of his vital records, none of which have been explained by any authority, he’s hidden medical record, including supposed birth at Kapiolani (because he wasn’t born there)Mr. Transparency is anything but it

    O.K., you’re a liar and an idiot.

  42. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny October 24, 2010 at 6:05 pm #

    charo:
    We don’t know what would have happened had those items been requested.You are assuming they would be denied.

    Judging from the comments, Alaska has very stringent privacy laws. There was a conflict here between those laws and the public’s right to know, since Miller worked for local government, not a private company. Technically, this order is not against Miller, but against the agency who hired him, but the agency did want to release the records, but did not get any waiver freom Miller.The principle at work in this decision is that Miller was being paid by the voters at the time, and as a candidate for the US senate, is appealing to the same people to get a new job paid by them.

    He is a teabagger, so it should not come as a surprise that his lawyer (who also works for Palin) had no problem using birth certificate and schoolrecords to illustrate his objection. And of course that comments section got a lot of birfer posts.

    I find it rather amusing too that Miller was objecting on account of privacy, while he is claimed, and more or less confessed, to have used his colleagues’ computers to vote multiple times on online polls during their lunch breaks (meaning he infringed on a lot of other people’s privacy). For all we know, some of us may have met him virtually.

  43. avatar
    Northland10 October 24, 2010 at 6:10 pm #

    charo: “I hold that although Mr. Miller has a legitimate expectation of privacy in those documents,

    The key word was “those” documents. The documents requested in the original filings were for personnel records (not personal records) and, in addition, employment records from a public agency. Even then, as Ricky has pointed out, there will be omitted and redacted records for privacy reasons. Of course, there would unlikely be a birth certificate but only possibly copies with his I-9, of a drivers license, SSN card and or a Passport (unless, he is not a citizen, then there would be more). All of these would not be included as they they contain private information and are not germane to the original request. The court documents had some specifics as they could not just go on a fishing expedition (plus, they have to have some evidence up front).

    Having read some of the articles, I am getting the impression that the borough was not entirely against releasing but would not proceed without the court’s advise. I assume this is to protect themselves against retaliation.

  44. avatar
    charo October 24, 2010 at 8:10 pm #

    Rickey: We will learn what is being released if Miller loses his appeal. If the records are released, I guarantee you that they will not include the following:

    Miller’s Social Security Number
    Miller’s birth certificate
    Miller’s school records
    Miller’s passport
    Miller’s medical records

    I can already guarantee that because they were not asked for.

    Under the UIPA for Hawaii:

    An agency may withhold access to a record if disclosure of the
    record would constitute a “clearly unwarranted invasion of
    personal privacy[.]” To withhold a record under this exception,
    an agency must be able to show that:
    (1) An individual has a significant privacy interest
    in the information contained in the record; and
    (2) The significant privacy interest is not outweighed
    by the public interest in disclosure.
    An agency must balance the significant privacy interest against
    the public interest in disclosure of the information. If the public
    interest is found to outweigh the individual privacy interest,
    the agency must disclose the information.

    If Alaska follows a similar approach,then I would guess a judge here could find that the public interest can outweigh individual privacy interests regarding a birth certificate. As for transcripts, etc (except social security number), the context of the article seemed to suggest that he would find that the public interest in the background of a candidate for a high office outweighs privacy interests, if such a request were made beyond the one issue of the disciplinary matter.

  45. avatar
    gorefan October 24, 2010 at 8:11 pm #

    J Maine: GW Bush’s GPA at Yale was higher than Kerry’s

    We know this only because the documents were leaked to news media. They were not released by the candidates.

    you seem to be upset that no one has leaked President Obama’s records.

  46. avatar
    Rickey October 24, 2010 at 8:51 pm #

    charo:

    As for transcripts, etc (except social security number), the context of the article seemed to suggest that he would find that the public interest in the background of a candidate for a high office outweighs privacy interests, if such a request were made beyond the one issue of the disciplinary matter.

    You are making an inference which I do not believe is justified. A judge’s rulings are confined to the issues which have properly been brought before the court. A judge is not going to say, in essence, “By the way, you didn’t ask for A and B and C, but if you do I will let you have them as well.”

    Obviously, there could be circumstances in a legal dispute in which someone’s birth certificate is relevant and a judge could order its release (for example, where an applicant for life insurance is accused of falsifying his or her age to get a lower premium). But it is inconceivable that Joe Miller’s birth certificate or medical records are relevant to the issue of whether he committed ethics violations while he was a public employee.

    The judge in this case is not giving anyone carte blanche to see everything which is in Miller’s personnel file. To do so would not only be improper, it would invite an injunction and a reversal by an appeals court.

  47. avatar
    charo October 24, 2010 at 8:59 pm #

    Rickey: You are making an inference which I do not believe is justified. A judge’s rulings are confined to the issues which have properly been brought before the court.

    Judges make rulings on the particular matter before him/her, but certainly you would agree that they often give indications of where they stand in a more general case.

    Rickey: The judge in this case is not giving anyone carte blanche to see everything which is in Miller’s personnel file.

    Who said that?

  48. avatar
    charo October 24, 2010 at 9:00 pm #

    charo: stand in a more general case.

    That is not what I meant to write- where they stand generally.

  49. avatar
    Arthur October 24, 2010 at 9:33 pm #

    charo:

    Who said that?

    According to the Anchorage Daily News, “The judge said that about 30 of the documents being sought would not be released. Twice that number would be redacted. The case was brought by a group of Alaska news media organizations, which have been trying since summer to see borough documents concerning Miller’s employment as a part-time borough attorney.”

  50. avatar
    Expelliarmus October 24, 2010 at 9:58 pm #

    charo: Judges make rulings on the particular matter before him/her, but certainly you would agree that they often give indications of where they stand in a more general case.

    Yes, but in this case there was an allegation that the candidate had been disciplined for misconduct while employed by a public agency, and a lawsuit for disclosure of the specific fact of discipline. The plaintiffs (journalists) had to start by laying out a case of what the records were likely to show.

    I can see something like this having come into play if journalists had sued for the release of John Kerry’s military records because of the swift boat allegations; or GW Bush’s records from the National Guard because of the allegations that he had shirked his responsibilities , or the records of GW Bush’s DUI arrest..

    So, for example — if Illinois state bar records had shown some record of discipline of Obama — for example, a private reprimand — maybe there would be grounds for forcing disclosure of the records.

    But the bottom line is that the burden of proof always lies with the plaintiff — so the first thing the plaintiff has to do is make out a prima facie case that something actually happened and that the facts surrounding that something are relevant to issues should appropriately be made public. Evidence of misconduct by a would-be public official that occurred in the recent past would tend to fit within that test.

    So it still come down to.. .where is the birther’s prima facie case? Speculation doesn’t cut it.

    If the birthers had real evidence, as opposed to implausible speculation, that a candidate was not born on US soil despite claims that he was — and sought disclosure during the course of the campaign … maybe they would get somewhere. (Let’s say, hypothetically, that Bill Richardson had won the nomination and a claim was made that he was born in Mexico, along with production of a Mexican birth certificate or an affidavit of a Mexican midwife – – plausible because Richardson’s own narrative is that his parents lived in Mexico, and his father sent his Mexican-born mother to California to deliver — then there might have been a case made for opening up California hospital records or getting a long-form California birth certificate).

  51. avatar
    Daniel October 24, 2010 at 10:32 pm #

    charo: We don’t know what would have happened had those items been requested. You are assuming they would be denied.

    And you’re assuming they wouldn’t be. The difference is that assuming they would be denied is a reasonable assumption based on law, while your assumption is conjecture, drwan from speculation, upon which you have built a house of cards in which to make a case for finding out which brand of condom Obama used in college.

    Why do birthers always seem to think their idle speculation has the weight of law?

  52. avatar
    ellid October 24, 2010 at 11:25 pm #

    J Maine:
    We don’t know anything about Obama, still? What are you talking about?Obviously you don’t recall how we know that:GW Bush’s GPA at Yale was higher than Kerry’s (to his embarrassment).
    Medical history of previous presidents exist with details, including McCainObama has hidden everything about his college life, EVERYTHING
    He’s hidden details of his vital records, none of which have been explained by any authority, he’s hidden medical record, including supposed birth at Kapiolani (because he wasn’t born there)Mr. Transparency is anything but it

    Neither Bush nor Kerry publicly released their college grades, so your assertion is unsupported rumor.

    There is no such person as “McCainObama.” Please learn to punctuate. Until then, kindly go elsewhere, like Orly Taitz’s malware-infested joke of a blog. Thank you.

  53. avatar
    Rickey October 24, 2010 at 11:34 pm #

    charo:

    Who said that?

    I said that.

    If the judge were giving carte blanche to the news organizations to see Miller’s entire personnel file, there would be no pages withheld and no pages redacted.

    If, for example, there are medical records in Miller’s personnel file, the judge has no authority to order their release. No one has the right to see Miller’s medical records without his consent.

  54. avatar
    sfjeff October 25, 2010 at 12:58 pm #

    I would like to also point out that the judge specifically ruled about a candidate.

    I doubt any judge would allow the release of this information for a sitting Senator, because it would not be relevant to an election.

    But we really don’t know. This is one ruling by one judge, which may be overturned upon appeal.

    I suggest that WND file a similar lawsuit with the same argument for all of President Obama’s documents.

  55. avatar
    Sean October 25, 2010 at 4:11 pm #

    Did anyone see the staggering amount of people that showed up for Phil Berg’s rally?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYlF17_twVI

    It’s practically Woodstock!

  56. avatar
    Sean October 25, 2010 at 4:12 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: So, you can be a tax and borrow to spend more thug-o-crat with latent tendencies toward cap-and-tax and that’s okay as long as you believe Obama was born in Hawaii?Could you set the bar any lower?

    Yes. Bush.

  57. avatar
    Sean October 25, 2010 at 4:21 pm #

    J Maine:
    We don’t know anything about Obama, still? What are you talking about?Obviously you don’t recall how we know that:GW Bush’s GPA at Yale was higher than Kerry’s (to his embarrassment).
    Medical history of previous presidents exist with details, including McCainObama has hidden everything about his college life, EVERYTHING
    He’s hidden details of his vital records, none of which have been explained by any authority, he’s hidden medical record, including supposed birth at Kapiolani (because he wasn’t born there)Mr. Transparency is anything but it

    Where is George W. Bush’s birth certificate? Why was Bush’s criminal record in Texas not available?

  58. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) October 25, 2010 at 4:51 pm #

    Sean: Where is George W. Bush’s birth certificate? Why was Bush’s criminal record in Texas not available?

    How about why Bush’s insider trading violations were not investigated?

  59. avatar
    misha October 25, 2010 at 5:40 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: Could you set the bar any lower?

    GW Bush: God told me to invade Iraq.

    Also, I’m glad Bush stopped those WMDs and mobile weapons labs. Of couse, then Cheney’s Halliburton would not be doing so well.

  60. avatar
    misha October 25, 2010 at 5:49 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: Could you set the bar any lower?

    “Nurse, Mr. Berg got out of his restraints again.