Main Menu

A disturbance in the Force

“I haven’t felt such a disturbance in the Force since…”

Neil Abercrombie’s decision to take on the birthers has created an unprecedented flood of Google Alerts. This has become quite a big deal with articles in the New York Times and the San Francisco Chronicle, an interview on CNN and coverage on MSNBC just to drop a few big names.

47 Responses to A disturbance in the Force

  1. avatar
    sarina December 30, 2010 at 6:11 pm #

    The birthers are changing the whole meaning of what Abercrombie said.
    They have been saying that Abercrombie is asking for Obama’s long form birth certificate!

    This will never end!

  2. avatar
    Carl December 30, 2010 at 6:49 pm #

    If what we know already (his father was a British subject) is true. He’s Constitutionally ineligible. If none of what’s been posted about him is true. He’s a liar guilty of treason.
    All anybody wants is prim fascia evidence to pursue his removal from office. Any official documentation stating who he is, where he was born and who his parents are will do Something that, to date, has never been offered. The Internet provides no, and I repeat, no evidence that could be used in a court of law.
    Bottom line is this.., nobody knows who this man-child really is and I, for one, have a burning desire to know the truth. For those of you who don’t.., may you fry along with all of his co-conspirators.
    All you’re doing is buying time but your time is rapidly approaching so I would offer this advice… Be on the right side of history or condemn your kids and grandkids to a life none of us ever dreamed possible.
    Pitchforks and torches time everyone, pitchforks and torches.

  3. avatar
    obsolete December 30, 2010 at 7:06 pm #

    Carl is one of the birthers who wants to punish the 69 million Americans who voted for the person who scares him.
    Carl also hasn’t read the constitution.

  4. avatar
    Bovril December 30, 2010 at 7:12 pm #

    Oh sweet, its name links to a website of the bigotted, stupid and insane.

  5. avatar
    richCares December 30, 2010 at 7:28 pm #

    “Oh sweet, its name links to a website of the bigotted, stupid and insane.”
    Correction:
    Oh sweet, its name links to a website of the really bigotted, really stupid and really insane
    .
    Carl should change his handle to Mr. Bigot!

  6. avatar
    richCares December 30, 2010 at 7:31 pm #

    Don’t tell Carl that Obama is still the most admired man in America, and please don’t show Carl pictures of Obama with smiling troops. He couldn’t handle that.

  7. avatar
    ellid December 30, 2010 at 7:52 pm #

    Carl –

    Wrong from beginning to end, and very boring as well. Why don’t you do something useful with your copious free time, like work for Habitat for Humanity?

  8. avatar
    Northland10 December 30, 2010 at 7:55 pm #

    Carl: Be on the right side of history or condemn your kids and grandkids to a life none of us ever dreamed possible.

    Somebody did dream that such a life as we see now was possible:

    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm

  9. avatar
    James M December 30, 2010 at 8:00 pm #

    Carl: The Internet provides no, and I repeat, no evidence that could be used in a court of law.

    Nobody is really suggesting that a jpeg/photo/scan of a birth certificate is the evidence.

    The evidence, if you must have it, rests on the sworn statement of the director of the health department who attested to the fact that the *information represented* in the (scanned image of the) document you’ve seen correctly represents the state’s records.

    If there were really any question as to the veracity of that document and it was investigated, an actual copy of that document would be used, not a scan on the internet.

    The scan on the internet was meant for *your* convenience. Releasing that was completely discretionary, and was clearly a mistake to do, since all it did was drive controversy among people who are bound and determined to create this controversy regardless of the facts.

  10. avatar
    Scientist December 30, 2010 at 8:10 pm #

    “prim fascia”

    I painted some of the fascia on my house this summer. As to whether the color I chose was “prim”, that is in the eye of the beholder.

  11. avatar
    Slartibartfast December 30, 2010 at 8:36 pm #

    Scientist: “prim fascia”I painted some of the fascia on my house this summer.As to whether the color I chose was “prim”, that is in the eye of the beholder.

    yore such a fasciaist! πŸ˜‰

  12. avatar
    Loren December 30, 2010 at 10:11 pm #

    Carl: Something that, to date, has never been offered. The Internet provides no, and I repeat, no evidence that could be used in a court of law.

    I just realized something amazing: Carl and his Birther brethren have inadvertently solved the entire Wikileaks crisis.

    After all, every one of the Wikileaks documents published online is just a digital image. None of them can be independently verified by any of us to be accurate representations of *real* physical documents. And so, per the Birther code, they can all be dismissed as insufficiently authentic. Maybe inbetween making crappy videos, Polland could claim that he sees anomalies and artifacts that show that Assange forged the papers.

    Now if Julian Assange gets each of those thousands of documents forensically tested…well, then we might be in trouble.

  13. avatar
    sfjeff December 30, 2010 at 11:08 pm #

    Carl is a sterling example of how faithful Birthers are to the Constitution:

    Section 3 – Treason Note

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

    Carl however thinks that Treason is a ‘man-child'(is this twentieth century speak for ‘boy’) being elected by voters.

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 30, 2010 at 11:29 pm #

    Carl: If what we know already (his father was a British subject) is true. He’s Constitutionally ineligible

    The copy of the Constitution the Congress uses (since they unanimously certified the 2008 election) must be different from yours. Make sure your copy says “United States” on it.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 30, 2010 at 11:30 pm #

    sarina: They have been saying that Abercrombie is asking for Obama’s long form birth certificate!

    Well, what else COULD he be talking about?

  16. avatar
    Whatever4 December 31, 2010 at 12:24 am #

    In the clip I saw (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13739513 ), Abercrombie never really says birth certificate. He says “”We have to take a look at what we can do with that. But I can’t imagine that we can’t find some way to see to it that those who are honest about it, who don’t have a personal agenda, could have no further argument about it,” he said.”

    Could be something from the University of Hawaii. Maybe letters to/from Obama Sr.’s advisor? Or birth annoucements sent to friends? I wonder if Abercrombie is asking the old gang for whatever they might have.

  17. avatar
    G December 31, 2010 at 12:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Well, what else COULD he be talking about?

    Except that is nothing but a specious jump to conclusion. The only one who hasn’t actually said they were directly going after Obama’s “long form” is Abercrombie himself.

    Look at the original source article and pay attention to what he ACTUALLY said he would do – he’s going to ask questions about what can be done. If those questions lead to anything further than merely relaying answers, well then we’ll have interesting stories to cover here then.

    But until then, this is all that he’s actually promised, which you and the media and everyone else are hyping into something more than it might ever turn out to be:

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_BIRTH_CERTIFICATE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

    HONOLULU (AP) — Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie wants to find a way to release more information about President Barack Obama’s Hawaii birth and dispel conspiracy theories that he was born elsewhere.

    Abercrombie was a friend of Obama’s parents and knew him as a child, and is deeply troubled by the effort to cast doubt on the president’s citizenship.

    The newly elected governor will ask the state attorney general’s office about what can be done to put an end to questions about Obama’s birth documentation from Aug. 4, 1961, spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Tuesday.

    “He had a friendship with Mr. Obama’s parents, and so there is a personal issue at hand,” Dela Cruz said. “Is it going to be done immediately? No, the first thing on our list is the economy.”

    It’s unclear what Abercrombie could do because Hawaii’s privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who doesn’t have a tangible interest.

    So yeah, when the “long form” is always the talk of the magic birther birth certificate holy grail (at least as far as HI is concerned)… folks who’ve heard this argument automatically leap to conclusions that Abercrombie is going after that document.

    Well all he’s actually promised to do if you read the actual article is to LOOK INTO what can be released.

    So really, its not that different from all the request for information that the department in HI has been trying to answer for birthers and other curiosity seekers for the past 2 years… except that now its a new Governor asking.

    Will the power of his office give him some “special privilege” to do anything differently or get a different answer? We will have to see.

    Maybe as Gov, he is legally allowed to examine their records for himself. But what he can just whip out and put in the public domain…well, we’ll just have to wait to find out.

    And if he asks the question or even looks at vital records himself and then comes out and just makes statements no different then what Lingle did over the past two years, then that is your answer two… and just as much a result of of what he actually said he would do as anything else people are speculating on.

    If we actually end up with a “long form” out of all this at the end, then yippie. But if we don’t and simply get questions and responses and folks hopes are dashed … well, you all jumped to already make this out more than it is at this time.

  18. avatar
    Joey December 31, 2010 at 12:52 am #

    For our dear friend Carl. President Chester A. Arthur’s father, William Arthur was born in
    Cullybackey, Ballymena, Ireland in the United Kingdom.

  19. avatar
    Steve December 31, 2010 at 12:59 am #

    Joey: For our dear friend Carl. President Chester A. Arthur’s father, William Arthur was born inCullybackey, Ballymena, Ireland in the United Kingdom.

    I thought Ireland was not a part of the UK. Northern Ireland is, but not Ireland.

  20. avatar
    Greg December 31, 2010 at 1:17 am #

    Carl, if your syllogism is true, then why even seek the birth certificate. If you can convince the American people that having a Non-citizen father makes Obama ineligible, you’ve won. You really think Obama’s going to back away from the two books he wrote and the COLB he published?

    Honestly, Carl, if you believed that, it would be a supreme waste of time to seek the BC. Spend your time convincing the public that your strange theory of citizenship is real. In your construction, the options (ineligible b/c British or liar) suggest that getting the BC hurts your case either way. If it confirms he was born here to Obama Sr. you still have to convince the public that Obama telling the truth the whole time was a bad thing. If it shows some other father, you’ve now got to completely change gears and prove that Obama committed election fraud. I’d suggest you look up the elements of fraud before you attempt that.

    You guys are to logic what Kryptonite was to Superman!

  21. avatar
    Lupin December 31, 2010 at 2:50 am #

    [Rod Serling’s voice] Submitted for your consideration… Carl… A bigot, a racist, a moron… who finds himself suddenly transported in an America where a black man was elected President… Watch his reaction as he suddenly takes a giant leap into…. the Twilight Zone. [/Rod Serling]

    Cut to Carl’s running around like a headless chicken, screaming.

  22. avatar
    DCH December 31, 2010 at 9:10 am #

    “The Internet provides no, and I repeat, no evidence that could be used in a court of law.”

    Which is the source of ALL birther ‘evidence’ and legal research presented to date on this site and in actual courts. LOL. Getting your butts kicked over EIGHTY times IS evidence that you have no case and are delusional.
    \Why don’t you file a case?

  23. avatar
    Scientist December 31, 2010 at 9:26 am #

    Carl: The Internet provides no, and I repeat, no evidence that could be used in a court of law.

    Sorry, carl, but the 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals disagrees.

    http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202446649413

  24. avatar
    Kbell December 31, 2010 at 10:19 am #

    Carl Swensson extremist Nut!!!

    What a sad world Mr. swensson lives in. To live with this article as his claim to fame.

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/carl-swensson/2010/05/

    Carl, You can do yourself a big favor get some diversity training or Just go ahead and join your local chapter of the KKK in Georgia.

  25. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 31, 2010 at 11:04 am #

    G: Dr. Conspiracy:
    Well, what else COULD he be talking about?

    Except that is nothing but a specious jump to conclusion. The only one who hasn’t actually said they were directly going after Obama’s “long form” is Abercrombie himself.

    Look at the original source article and pay attention to what he ACTUALLY said he would do – he’s going to ask questions about what can be done. If those questions lead to anything further than merely relaying answers, well then we’ll have interesting stories to cover here then.

    The New York Times interviewed Abercrombie and they characterized what he told them as:

    “release additional proof that the president was born in Honolulu in 1961”

    Information is not proof. Based on my professional experience as someone who has worked with vital records systems for decades, I do not think it likely that the State of Hawaii holds any proof other than the long form.

  26. avatar
    bob December 31, 2010 at 11:38 am #

    Steve: I thought Ireland was not a part of the UK. Northern Ireland is, but not Ireland.

    The split into the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland happened after William Authur was born. Then it was simply the Kingdom of Ireland, ruled entirely by Britain.

  27. avatar
    Rickey December 31, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    Steve:
    I thought Ireland was not a part of the UK. Northern Ireland is, but not Ireland.

    The Irish Free State (now the Republic of Ireland) was established in 1922. Prior to that all of Ireland was under British rule.

    However, that is irrelevant because Arthur’s father, William Arthur, was born in Cullbackey, County Antrim, which to this day remains part of Northern Ireland. He was a British subject until he was naturalized as a U.S. citizen in 1843 (Chester A. Arthur was born in 1829, so he was 13 or 14 when his father was naturalized).

  28. avatar
    G December 31, 2010 at 12:10 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Information is not proof. Based on my professional experience as someone who has worked with vital records systems for decades, I do not think it likely that the State of Hawaii holds any proof other than the long form.

    Once again, that is the NYT characterization of his statements implying that, not his actual words.

    Just clarifying because I think much of this is getting over hyped because all the conversation seems to be focused on characterizing and trying to interpret what he said instead of reporting what he actually said. There is a danger to that. It sets up overblown expectations.

  29. avatar
    Black Lion December 31, 2010 at 12:48 pm #

    Bovril: Oh sweet, its name links to a website of the bigotted, stupid and insane.

    That’s because it is old buddy Carl Sweenson….Proud birther and kind of the pretend grand juries…

  30. avatar
    Black Lion December 31, 2010 at 12:49 pm #

    Black Lion: That’s because it is old buddy Carl Sweenson….Proud birther and kind of the pretend grand juries…

    I meant king of the pretend fake grand juries….

  31. avatar
    Black Lion December 31, 2010 at 12:49 pm #

    Friday, December 31, 2010
    WND Lies About Its Birther Coverage — Again
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    In attempting to yet again portray Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie as having a “radical history that ties him to a U.S.-based socialist organization with deep connections to President Obama,” WorldNetDaily’s Aaron Kleintries to once again whitewashhis employer’s shoddy history of birther-related reporting.

    In complaining about a statement from Abercrombie’s campaign that he was being attacked by “conspiracy theorists … who continually claim that President Obama was not born in the U.S.,” Klein retorts in a Dec. 29 WND article: “WND has never reported Obama was born outside the U.S. Instead, WND has reported Obama has not released documentary evidence conclusively proving his place of birth.”

    Klein would like you to forget that his employer did, in fact, portray Obama as “not born in the U.S.” Remember the “kenyan birth certificate” that WND made no effort whatsoever to verify before publishing, thus treating it as authentic? We do. We also remember the backflips Farah and crew performed to pretend that its sleazy, lazy journalism was somehow noble and responsible.

    This is part of the revisionism that WND engages in to cover up its lack of regard for the facts. Farah himself has also previously claimed that “I am not making accusations about where Obama was born” when he and his website have done exactly that.

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/2097981/wnd-lies-about-its-birther-coverage-again/

  32. avatar
    Joey December 31, 2010 at 12:56 pm #

    Steve: I thought Ireland was not a part of the UK. Northern Ireland is, but not Ireland.

    The Irish War of Independence
    Anglo-Irish War, or Tan War was a guerrilla war mounted by the Irish Republican Army (IRA) against the British government and its forces in Ireland. It began in January 1919, following the Irish Republic’s declaration of independence. Both sides agreed to a truce in July 1921, though violence continued in the northeast (mostly between republicans and loyalists). The post-ceasefire talks led to the Anglo-Irish Treaty, which ended British rule in most of Ireland and established the Irish Free State. However, six northern counties would remain within the United Kingdom as Northern Ireland.

    The IRA that fought in this conflict is often called the Old IRA to distinguish it from later groups that used the same name.

  33. avatar
    Rickey December 31, 2010 at 2:00 pm #

    Oh For Goodness Sake blog has put together a hilarious recap, “Great Birther Moments in 2010.”

    http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=15083

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 31, 2010 at 2:15 pm #

    G: Once again, that is the NYT characterization of his statements implying that, not his actual words.

    That is true, however, the Times conducted its own telephone interview with Abercrombie and this characterization in the article is the only information we have as to what went on in that interview. Abercrombie has given at least 3 interviews that I know of. CNN reported:

    Abercrombie, in his first on-camera comments on the matter, said that he has his attorney general and the state’s Health Department director looking at what legal avenues can they follow to release more documentation of Obama’s birth in 1961.
    … [long gap]
    Pressed on whether he might unilaterally release a copy of Obama’s actual birth certificate, Abercrombie made clear that he is waiting for his cabinet officials to give him a report on what he can legally do before proceeding.

    http://whitehouse.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/27/governor-vows-to-end-birther-controversy/

  35. avatar
    G December 31, 2010 at 2:24 pm #

    Rickey: Oh For Goodness Sake blog has put together a hilarious recap, “Great Birther Moments in 2010.”http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=15083

    LMAO! That was indeed a most popcorn worthy recap! πŸ˜‰

  36. avatar
    G December 31, 2010 at 2:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Pressed on whether he might unilaterally release a copy of Obama’s actual birth certificate, Abercrombie made clear that he is waiting for his cabinet officials to give him a report on what he can legally do before proceeding.

    This actually reinforces my point.

    They pressed him on the question and his direct response was NOT about any specific document, like they asked – but instead matches up with the extent of the other actual statements we’ve seen so far from him on this – he is simply inquiring into what he can do at this stage and has not made any more specific promises at this point than that.

    Again, it seems too much focus is being given to media making their own interpretation and speculative characterizations of his intentions d than what he actually said.

    If he come back from his inquiry quest and based on those findings, just makes statements similar to what we’ve heard from other HI officials in the past, he will still have lived up to what he actually said he would do.

    If a public showing of a “long form” results from all this, then yipee. But nothing of that sort has actually been promised by him yet.

  37. avatar
    G December 31, 2010 at 2:40 pm #

    Dr. C – I’ve noticed a pattern here…

    Does your moderation filter contain some sort of trigger clause that any response to a post of yours automatically gets put into moderation?

    I’ve noticed this has happened consistently on every post of yours I’ve replied to, but not on any others…

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 31, 2010 at 2:48 pm #

    G: Does your moderation filter contain some sort of trigger clause that any response to a post of yours automatically gets put into moderation?

    No. The moderation filter only has a few obscene words and list of banned persons. I would point out that you have commented on things I said WITHOUT any moderation.

    What you’re seeing is a problem with the spam filter which is an external service over which I have no control.

  39. avatar
    G December 31, 2010 at 2:59 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: No. The moderation filter only has a few obscene words and list of banned persons. I would point out that you have commented on things I said WITHOUT any moderation.

    What you’re seeing is a problem with the spam filter which is an external service over which I have no control.

    Let me clarify. I’m not accusing you of anything, but trying to say that maybe the external service spam filter, of which you have no control has introduced a rule of now putting replies to the moderator automatically into moderation…?

    When I said that all of my comments to you were going into moderation, I should have been more specific that it is ALL of those since yesterday, in which I directly replied to you using the “quote” feature.

    …And that my other replies in this same time frame to other posters using the “quote” feature did NOT end up in moderation. If I write “Dr. C” to you and post without using the “quote” to reply back to you, I have not seen this problem occur.

    So, it is just a possible pattern that just recently cropped up that I noticed with my different posts as of yesterday through now. Just trying to help track down where the spam filter might be applying additional unintended triggers. If so, I don’t know if you can report the issue to that external spam service or not.

    I guess this will be a test to see if it happens again and there is a connection, as I did use the “quote” feature to reply to you in this post.

  40. avatar
    G December 31, 2010 at 3:04 pm #

    Dr. C – yep. Happened again. Using the “quote” feature as a reply back to you triggered that external spam filter again.

    So, that test seems consistent with how its rules seem to be applying here lately.

    Based on the pattern I wrote about in my (currently in moderation post), I fully expect this one, where I write to you without the “quote” feature to post properly. So this is another test to confirm that.

    As I mentioned, the current bug doesn’t seem to be triggered using the “quote” feature to reply to anybody else’s post here – just when “quote” replying to the site owner’s comments.

    Just trying to help both of us understand what glitches are currently happening with the external filter and try to get to the bottom of what will trigger them.

  41. avatar
    Daniel December 31, 2010 at 3:37 pm #

    The word “quote” is often used in SPAM emails from China that offer “business propositions”. Many SPAM filters will proc on that word.

    I avoid using the word “quote” myself. Not sure if you were, but it might be something to consider.

  42. avatar
    G December 31, 2010 at 4:31 pm #

    Daniel: The word “quote” is often used in SPAM emails from China that offer “business propositions”. Many SPAM filters will proc on that word.I avoid using the word “quote” myself. Not sure if you were, but it might be something to consider.

    I meant the Quote feature that you can click on to copy someone’s post into your response. (like I just did to paste your stuff above in this reply)

    I did not mean the word quote in quotes. Sorry for the confusion -my bad.

    But also thanks for the tidbid about China spam.

  43. avatar
    Daniel December 31, 2010 at 5:22 pm #

    G:
    I meant the Quote feature that you can click on to copy someone’s post into your response.(like I just did to paste your stuff above in this reply)I did not mean the word quote in quotes.Sorry for the confusion -my bad.But also thanks for the tidbid about China spam.

    Well it was only a hypothesis.

    The only other reason I can think of is that the SPAM filter doesn’t like you, because you’re ugly, and your mother dresses you funny.

    Personally I think the SPAM filter is out of line for even suggesting that, but canned meat doesn’t listen to reason.

    πŸ˜‰

  44. avatar
    Northland10 December 31, 2010 at 5:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The moderation filter only has a few obscene words and list of banned persons. I would point out that you have commented on things I said WITHOUT any moderation.

    Maybe the Doc has banned himself ;), or forced himself to be moderated. There are days, I would like to use a self-moderation feature, lest I be expected to show self-control.

  45. avatar
    G December 31, 2010 at 6:10 pm #

    Daniel –

    I meant the Quote feature that you can click on to copy someone’s post into your response. (like I just tried to do in a similar reply back to you…)

    I did not mean the word quote in quotes. Sorry for the confusion -my bad.

    But also thanks for the tidbid about China spam.

    Daniel:
    Well it was only a hypothesis.The only other reason I can think of is that the SPAM filter doesn’t like you, because you’re ugly, and your mother dresses you funny.Personally I think the SPAM filter is out of line for even suggesting that, but canned meat doesn’t listen to reason.

    LOL! HNY! πŸ˜‰

  46. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 31, 2010 at 8:24 pm #

    Daniel: Personally I think the SPAM filter is out of line for even suggesting that, but canned meat doesn’t listen to reason.

    I like BBQ SPAM.

  47. avatar
    Daniel December 31, 2010 at 8:33 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I like BBQ SPAM.

    Act now and get huge discounts on BBQ online!!! Because you are a valued K-Mart customer we can offer you this time-limited bargain catalog which is open to only a very select few customers. Point your browser to wwww.BBQ.eggplant.nigeria.kmert.com and take advantage of this amazing offer!!!