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Lakin — bad choices based on bad information

Today the Army will conclude its part of the sentencing phase of the LTC Terry Lakin court-martial. Lakin, now found guilty  on multiple offenses, faces up to 3 and a half years in prison.

Some argue for the maximum penalty to send a message to any other military personnel who might try a similar stunt. Some argue for leniency, citing Lakin’s remorse and his value as an Army doctor.

As we say in South Carolina, I have no dog in that fight. Sentencing is the Army’s problem. What I am interested in is the consequences of birtherism. For me, Obama conspiracy theories are an amusement, an avocation. The problems come when folks take these stories and myths and take them seriously, and act on them–something that has ruined Terry Lakin and injured others. In his statement yesterday, Lakin made false statements of fact — such as a statement that John McCain had released a birth certificate, and the Obama Kenyan relatives say he was born there.

No one can make good choices based on bad information. Lakin admits that he had bad legal information, but still carries the delusion of bad information on Obama conspiracy theories. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are dangerous to those who hold them or to others.

66 Responses to Lakin — bad choices based on bad information

  1. avatar
    aarrgghh December 16, 2010 at 7:36 am #

    lakin based his bad choices not only on “bad information” — this particular set of bad information was information that had already been debunked. and the correct information was just as readily available to him as the bad information, for on the internet, good information is just as far away from the seeker as the bad, ie, a few mouse clicks (as plainly evidenced by doc’s “good, bad and ugly” blogroll at the bottom of this page). that lakin fell for the bad information and allowed it to direct one of the most significant decisions of his life (and the lives of those it would also affect) means that he was not really very interested in finding the good information and exposes lakin as a willful moron who doesn’t really deserve any of the pity due truly tragic figures.

  2. avatar
    NdH December 16, 2010 at 8:30 am #

    In this “nuclear age” (where the POTUS, on his word alone, can destroy entire nations) it is ludicrous to accept anything other than the best evidence available. The only way to ensure that Obama’s birth records ARE NOT the result of a fraudulent birth report (filed by a family member) is to examine the original.

    The Hawaiian COLB is insufficient. It FAILS to identify if the birth was reported by a hospital (trusted) or a family member (suspect). –In 2000, the Office of Inspector General released a study acknowledging that birth reports filed by a midwife or family member “to have a high potential for fraud”.
    See page 21 -http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf

    With nuclear capability comes nuclear responsibility.

    Why should anyone have reason to question Obama’s true place of birth?

    Obama’s own mother indicated that they (Obama Sr., his mother, and Obama II) had been to Kenya before Obama’s father graduated.

    She (while still alive) stated that “the three of us would return to Kenya after he [Obama Sr.] completed his studies.”

    This comes from Obama’s own book “Dreams from My Father”. Obama II is quoting his mother.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=HRCHJp-V0QUC&lpg=PA126&dq=%22return%20to%20Kenya%22%20%2BObama&pg=PA126#v=onepage&q=%22return%20to%20Kenya%22%20+Obama&f=false

  3. avatar
    aarrgghh December 16, 2010 at 9:04 am #

    NdH: In this “nuclear age” (where the POTUS, on his word alone, can destroy entire nations) it is ludicrous …

    hold it right there, buddy — you’re absolutely right.

    the idea that the potus on his word alone could destroy entire nations is absolutely ludicrous.

    the idea that the potus by himself could detonate our nuclear arsenal completely ignores the fact that the vpotus, the defsec, the natsec advisor and every other official in the loop would all say, “no effin way! you. are. friggin’. nuts!” then they’d arrest him and have congress remove him.

    in any case, the colb, as an admissible prima facie piece of documentation, is in fact the best evidence available for purposes of determining eligibility. that you refuse to accept it is of no concern to rational people.

  4. avatar
    aarrgghh December 16, 2010 at 9:11 am #

    NdH: In this “nuclear age” (where the POTUS, on his word alone, can destroy entire nations) it is ludicrous …

    … besides, if you were truly concerned about nuclear responsibility, you’d have to admit that there’s absolutely nothing on any birth record of any kind that could prove a person’s fitness to be burdened with that responsibility. you are nothing but a concern troll.

  5. avatar
    gorefan December 16, 2010 at 9:44 am #

    NdH: ludicrous to accept anything other than the best evidence available

    And yet we’ve never seen any other President’s or presidential candidates birth certificate. Or kindergarten records. With one exception. While he was standing up to the Russians, President Reagan knew that his BC was signed by his doctor and by the state registrar, in August of 1942. That’s 31 years after he was born. Funny, he never made that information known before his election. Do you think he was hiding something?

  6. avatar
    Steve December 16, 2010 at 10:03 am #

    NdH: In this “nuclear age” (where the POTUS, on his word alone, can destroy entire nations) it is ludicrous to accept anything other than the best evidence available. The only way to ensure that Obama’s birth records ARE NOT the result of a fraudulent birth report (filed by a family member) is to examine the original. The Hawaiian COLB is insufficient. It FAILS to identify if the birth was reported by a hospital (trusted) or a family member (suspect). –In 2000, the Office of Inspector General released a study acknowledging that birth reports filed by a midwife or family member “to have a high potential for fraud”.See page 21 -http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf With nuclear capability comes nuclear responsibility.Why should anyone have reason to question Obama’s true place of birth?Obama’s own mother indicated that they (Obama Sr., his mother, and Obama II) had been to Kenya before Obama’s father graduated. She (while still alive) stated that “the three of us would return to Kenya after he [Obama Sr.] completed his studies.”This comes from Obama’s own book “Dreams from My Father”. Obama II is quoting his mother.http://books.google.com/books?id=HRCHJp-V0QUC&lpg=PA126&dq=%22return%20to%20Kenya%22%20%2BObama&pg=PA126#v=onepage&q=%22return%20to%20Kenya%22%20+Obama&f=false

    Why does the name of the hospital matter?
    The COLB says he was born in Honolulu. Honolulu is in Hawaii. Hawaii is in the United States. Therefore, any hospital in Honolulu is in the Unbited States.
    Can somebody point out the hole in my logic?

  7. avatar
    BatGuano December 16, 2010 at 10:08 am #

    NdH: She (while still alive) stated that “the three of us would return to Kenya after he [Obama Sr.] completed his studies.”

    that was the original plan. didn’t work out that way. you might want to read the complete passage.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=HRCHJp-V0QUC&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=“the+three+of+us+would+return+to+Kenya+after+he+completed+his+studies.”&source=bl&ots=PFevaX4KYH&sig=7aBVDqskjDKMz–MnXhHMW0ebGk&hl=en&ei=HCoKTdqGOpGqsAPMg8SZCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

  8. avatar
    BatGuano December 16, 2010 at 10:13 am #

    NdH: It FAILS to identify if the birth was reported by a hospital (trusted) or a family member (suspect).

    you do realize that we’ve only had a small handful of presidents that were born in a hospital starting with jimmy carter.

  9. avatar
    BatGuano December 16, 2010 at 10:27 am #

    presidents with their finger on the button but without being reported by a hospital (trusted) :

    truman
    eisenhower
    kennedy
    johnson
    nixon
    ford
    reagan
    h.w. bush
    clinton

    if this is your crusade NdH, you might have wanted to start a little sooner.

  10. avatar
    Steve December 16, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    Steve: Why does the name of the hospital matter?The COLB says he was born in Honolulu. Honolulu is in Hawaii. Hawaii is in the United States. Therefore, any hospital in Honolulu is in the Unbited States.Can somebody point out the hole in my logic?

    Unbited States? Damn, I wish there were an edit function here.

  11. avatar
    richCares December 16, 2010 at 10:58 am #

    “Unbited States? Damn, I wish there were an edit function here.”
    the Mozilla Firefox browser has a built in spell checker and it works a bit faster.
    .
    now on topic, As it was clear for months that birherism would not be part of this trial, why were the birthers there, seems rather silly.

  12. avatar
    Black Lion December 16, 2010 at 11:05 am #

    More from the fecal droppings of CW and his followers….

    LTC Lakin convicted, Court martial convicts Lakin on 4th count, American patriot, Lakin speech during sentencing

    From World Net Daily December 15, 2010.

    “Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin, the officer who raised questions about Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president only to be struck down by a military court’s banishment of evidence about his concerns, has been convicted of the most serious charge he faced, missing a flight scheduled to take him to a new assignment.

    Lakin was convicted yesterday by Judge Denise Lind on three counts of disobeying orders during the first day of his court martial. The court-martial panel deliberated this morning on the last count, a charge he missed his flight to report for duty.

    Lakin had pleaded guilty to four counts related to disobeying orders yesterday, but one count was subsequently dismissed by Lind at the request of Lakin’s counsel, Neal Puckett. Lakin was convicted then of two counts of failing to obey orders to meet with his commanding officer and one count of failing to report as ordered to Fort Campbell, Ky., to join the 101st Airborne Division prior to the unit’s deployment to Afghanistan.

    Unlike the civilian legal system, a military court can immediately convict any defendant who pleads guilty to a crime.

    The possible penalties include dismissal as well as up to 42 months in prison.
    Lakin openly admits he willfully chose to disobey orders to deploy to Afghanistan over concerns that his orders were not lawful. Lakin is not sure whether President Barack Obama is a legitimate commander-in-chief of the armed forces because Obama has failed to prove he is eligible under the U.S. Constitution to occupy the Oval Office.

    Lakin deliberately exposed himself to a court martial in the hope of forcing Obama, during the “discovery” process, to prove he is eligible to serve as president by producing identity documents including his birth certificate. Lakin hoped the documents would establish whether Obama is a “natural born Citizen,” as required of any American president by Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution.”

    “Retired Navy Lt. Commander Charles Kerchner, the plaintiff in an eligibility suit recently rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court, doubts that justice will be done in Lakin’s court martial.

    “They have not allowed him discovery and exculpatory evidence, which the Constitution affords all of us,” said Kerchner. “I don’t know what legal rabbit [the defense is] going to pull out of a hat but they’re obviously planning something.”

    Lakin’s brother, Dr. Greg Lakin, was more upbeat about Puckett’s defense strategy.

    “[Puckett] wants to focus on the big issue here,” Greg Lakin told WND. According to Lakin, Puckett chose to concede the smaller matters in order to direct the court martial panel’s attention on the “missing movement” charge, which is most closely linked to Obama’s personal authority because it ties directly to the order to deploy to Iraq as part of Obama’s surge strategy.

    “The president has taken full credit for the Afghanistan deployment, he signed the order,” said Greg Lakin. “Terry will have a chance to say his piece during the sentencing portion of the trial.””

    Read more:

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=239805

    http://citizenwells.com/2010/12/15/ltc-lakin-convicted-court-martial-convicts-lakin-on-4th-count-american-patriot-lakin-speech-during-sentencing/

  13. avatar
    HORUS December 16, 2010 at 11:54 am #

    NdH: She (while still alive) stated that “the three of us would return to Kenya after he [Obama Sr.] completed his studies.”

    You idiot! She said they “WOULD” but they NEVER did because they divorced BEFORE he completed his studies. She had NEVER been to Kenya!

  14. avatar
    Sef December 16, 2010 at 11:57 am #

    NdH: She (while still alive) stated that “the three of us would return to Kenya after he [Obama Sr.] completed his studies.”

    Are we going to get into this “return” crap again?

  15. avatar
    HORUS December 16, 2010 at 12:01 pm #

    Black Lion: Unlike the civilian legal system, a military court can immediately convict any defendant who pleads guilty to a crime.

    This line is total BS, you plead guilty in ANY court in the land you are immediately Convicted. Once you plead guilty there is no need for a trial even. Just a Hearing.

  16. avatar
    James M December 16, 2010 at 12:14 pm #

    HORUS: She had NEVER been to Kenya!

    Did she ever go there at all? How many times did she leave the country before 1962, and where did she go? Since she went to Hawaii, it’s clear that she was comfortable with very long air voyages (assuming she went to Hawaii by air). Was she a big traveller, aside from that? And how do we know?

  17. avatar
    James M December 16, 2010 at 12:16 pm #

    richCares:
    now on topic, As it was clear for months that birherism would not be part of this trial, why were the birthers there, seems rather silly.

    Apparently they were there to cheer when the video was played. I have no doubt that this outburst exacerbated Lakin’s problems. But that was the net effect of having them present.

  18. avatar
    Black Lion December 16, 2010 at 12:21 pm #

    James M: Did she ever go there at all? How many times did she leave the country before 1962, and where did she go? Since she went to Hawaii, it’s clear that she was comfortable with very long air voyages (assuming she went to Hawaii by air). Was she a big traveller, aside from that? And how do we know?

    She lived in HI, so how does that show she was comfortable with very long air travel? Especially when air travel was so expensive?

  19. avatar
    Sef December 16, 2010 at 12:22 pm #

    James M:
    Did she ever go there at all?How many times did she leave the country before 1962, and where did she go?Since she went to Hawaii, it’s clear that she was comfortable with very long air voyages (assuming she went to Hawaii by air).Was she a big traveller, aside from that?And how do we know?

    Yes, she was one of The Doctor’s companions for many years. The birthers will probably say she was one of The Master’s companions.

    Get real! And just what relevance does this have to anything?

  20. avatar
    Black Lion December 16, 2010 at 12:29 pm #

    More nonsense by the Post and Fail, the throwing him under the bus process is already starting….

    “Mrs. Rondeau’s view of a corrupted military is certainly correct. Dr. Lakin’s actions were always suspect, though it isn’t clear who, if anyone, was guiding him. Dr. Lakin was backed by a shadowy 501(c)3 with little record of direct activism. Dr. Lakin, voicing concern about the natural born Citizen clause, referred to statute – citizenship law – rather than the dozens of statements confirming the natural law definition of a natural born Citizen, “born on the soil of citizen parents.” Birth certificates are irrelevant when a child is born of a non-citizen parent. It was all about allegiance. When the Constitution was written, the citizenship of the father became that of the wife. A child’s allegiance can be influenced by either parent. The large majority of U.S. citizens were natural born after about 1800. Obama never hid his father’s citizenship – British – or his own at birth – British.

    For Dr. Lakin to apparently put his future at risk but not understand the Constitution raised doubts about his motives. The Marxists running our government have raised the level of cynicism about our government, perhaps by design. For the JAG to not have allowed discovery sounds challengeable, but with the major issue being avoided by the Supreme Court, that is, the definition of natural born Citizen, justice is now about politics. The Constitution has become Obama’s “artifact.” It will remain to be seen whether the refusal to recuse themselves constitutes “Good Behavior” on the part of the new justices. They can be removed by the Senate, and I hope most of us will not forget the Kerchner certiorari review.

    CDR Kerchner and Mario Apuzzo proved that corruption now dominates the Supreme Court. The two Obama appointees, who would have lost their jobs if the Kerchner case had been reviewed, refused to recuse themselves. It is common-law and common sense that a fiduciary interest in a decision by a judge requires recusal. Three justices are clearly originalists (I suspect that Roberts, who knew Obama was illigitimate, and had the responsibility to ask the question, was the defector), and could have granted certiorari if only seven justices were part of the review.
    …………….

    Dr. Lakin’s lawyers’ claims required that Obama release his records. As disgusting as it is that our judicial branch allows the concealment of the background of our most important public official, that is currently the situation. But Obama’s father’s and his own citizenship at birth are not concealed and are in violation of the Constitution. For Dr. Lakin to challenge the executive on jus soli – born on the soil – without proof, when the jus sanguinis requirement – citizen parents – was already admitted, was a guarantee of failure. As “jtx” pointed out, when SCOTUS refused to hear Kerchner, the fix was in. Our only path is through the legislature, Tea Parties, and a few honest legislators. Every legislator in Congress when Obama was elected except Nathan Deal, who did request proof of eligibility and was answered with ethics charges, is complicit. Don’t expect any of them to speak up. They only want the issue to go away.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/12/15/british-citizenship-the-true-disqualifier-for-obama/

    Michelle says:
    Thursday, December 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM
    Dear Sharon-I know that there are those who make much of the COLB which is actually a PAID POLITICAL ANNOUNCEMENT paid for by the Obama campaign, Gibbs so proud of trying to pass the COLB as a birth certificate (only a computer image). If the COLB was an internet image of a check in the amount of $10,000.00 I have to see the bank that would cash it for you. This is in the style of the Nigerian oil scams which many people fell for much to their sorrow.
    —————–
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: Agreed; the COLB is a complete forgery. I wonder what the sentence for forgery is at the federal level in addition to all of the other crimes that have been committed?

    ObamaRelease YourRecords says:
    Thursday, December 16, 2010 at 1:10 AM
    Last I checked, in order to conclusively prove who one’s birth parents are, a long-form or hospital generated birth certificate must be viewed/verified, by some sort of legal authority…

    Most of us know that Obama would be ineligible if his parents are who he claims them to be, but, many still don’t know that fact…

    What if his birth parents are not who he claims them to be?
    ——————–
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: I highly suspect that to be the case. His “mother” spent almost no time with him as he was growing up; she “returned” to school supposedly just weeks after having a baby in 1961 (the University of WA verified that it was September, not August, but that still would have been barely six weeks), and he bears a striking resemblance to Stanley Armour Dunham. Perhaps Barack Obama Sr. was a surrogate parent who was easy to put down as the father on a fake COLB because he’s dead. However, if that proves to be the case, and the truth will undoubtedly come out some day, it would prove that he’s a complete fraud. Who wants that kind of person in the White House?

  21. avatar
    James M December 16, 2010 at 12:29 pm #

    Black Lion:

    She lived in HI, so how does that show she was comfortable with very long air travel?

    She got there, at least once, starting out in Kansas. Not that it’s *anything* comparable to going to Africa in the 1960s. And no, it’s really not relevant to anything. I’m just sad to see the circus ending. I don’t really care a whit about the birther movement, aside from the fact that it gives me some real clowns for my amusement.

  22. avatar
    Benji Franklin December 16, 2010 at 12:31 pm #

    The Birther Goal Posts for Native Birth:

    1) State – Not good enough – City?
    2) City – Not good enough – Hospital?
    3) Hospital – Not good enough – Room #?
    4) Room # – Not good enough – Bay #?
    5) Bay # – Not good enough – Delivering Doctor’s name?
    6) Doctor’s name – Not good enough – Doctor’s whereabouts?
    7) Cemetery Plot # – Not good enough – Doctor’s death certificate#?
    8) Doctor’s death certificate # – Not good enough – Exhumation Permission?
    9) Doctor’s remains confirm ID # – Not good enough – Educational credentials of the forensic anthropologist?
    10) Harvard summa cum laude – Not good enough – Oral histories from descendants of street vagrants foraging for food around that hospital’s dumpsters on Obama’s alleged birth day, confirming multiple lightning strikes which would be certain to accompany the birth of such a anti-Christ?
    11) None. – Aha! Obama is not a “Natural Born Citizen”.

    Benji Franklin

  23. avatar
    Black Lion December 16, 2010 at 12:36 pm #

    James M: She got there, at least once, starting out in Kansas. Not that it’s *anything* comparable to going to Africa in the 1960s. And no, it’s really not relevant to anything. I’m just sad to see the circus ending. I don’t really care a whit about the birther movement, aside from the fact that it gives me some real clowns for my amusement.

    James, that was because her entire family moved from KS to HI. And again air travel, especially international air travel was expensive and difficult at the time. The birthers amuse me also because of the total lack of common sense it would take for the birther scenario to be plausable….Yet they believe that without any hesitation….birthers, idiot savants minus the savant….

  24. avatar
    charo December 16, 2010 at 1:34 pm #

    Remember Easterling? This guy was pretty disrespectful in his words but after he said his piece and was reprimanded, he was recommended for promotion.

    http://www.examiner.com/independent-in-louisville/army-recommends-birther-for-promotion

    I was wondering if there were letters written by Generals Vallely and McInerny submitted and their effect on deliberations. Would they consider the Generals a possible influence on Lakin’s actions?

  25. avatar
    DCH December 16, 2010 at 2:55 pm #

    1. Why would a 17 year girl in her final month of pregnancy in Honolulu leave the country and fly more than 11,000 miles in a series of flights on pre-jet airliners with multiple stops for the the purpose of giving birth?

    2. The second completely stupid birther premise is that after going through the huge expense, time, and medical risk to go to Kenya the same family falsely registred the birth in Honolulu?
    Would not it have been simpler to simply stay in Hawaii and give birth and achieve the goal?
    Birthers can not answer this basic question. No wonder you side has lost 80 times in a row.

  26. avatar
    gorefan December 16, 2010 at 3:57 pm #

    charo: Would they consider the Generals a possible influence on Lakin’s actions?

    I think they both made statements after Lakin missed his deployment. Were either of them particularly pro-birther before that?

  27. avatar
    Keith December 16, 2010 at 4:10 pm #

    6 months, dismissal, forfeiture of benefits

  28. avatar
    Keith December 16, 2010 at 4:11 pm #

    Sorry. That’s per CAAFLog

  29. avatar
    Majority Will December 16, 2010 at 4:12 pm #

    A few more details per caaflog.com:

    LTC Lakin, convicted on all counts by a general court-martial, has been sentenced.

    The sentence is a dismissal, confinement for six months, and forfeiture of all pay and allowances. The dismissal — the only form of punitive discharge authorized for an officer — is generally regarded as equivalent to a dishonorable discharge and cuts off substantially all benefits incident to military service. If approved by the convening authority, it will entitle LTC Lakin to automatic review of his case by the Army Court of Criminal Appeals. He can waive that review, but such waivers are relatively rare. Unless the convening authority grants a deferment of confinement, LTC Lakin will start his sentence today.

    Colonel Sullivan reports that there was no reaction from LTC Lakin or from the half-dozen or so birthers remaining in the spectators’ gallery. The military judge thanked the members for their service, and excused them. The courtroom was then cleared to allow LTC Lakin privacy.

  30. avatar
    Black Lion December 16, 2010 at 4:45 pm #

    I must say that Lakin got a lot less than he deserved for deserting his unit and his men. He should feel luck. Over at the CAAFlog thread on Lakin’s conviction supposedly Sharon Rondeau is posting under the “your master” moniker….She is getting eviserated….

  31. avatar
    sfjeff December 16, 2010 at 4:55 pm #

    NDH “It FAILS to identify if the birth was reported by a hospital (trusted) or a family member (suspect). –In 2000, the Office of Inspector General released a study acknowledging that birth reports filed by a midwife or family member “to have a high potential for fraud”.

    It was reported in papers before the election that Ike had requested a birth certificate from his home state of Texas- 50 years after his birth, and attested to only by his brother- who was 3 years old at the time.

    Yet voters didn’t somehow come unglued about the lack of reliability of Ike’s birth certificate- which by the way was never shown to the public.

    And yes- Ike was a nuclear president.

  32. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP December 16, 2010 at 4:57 pm #

    Black Lion: I must say that Lakin got a lot less than he deserved for deserting his unit and his men.He should feel luck.Over at the CAAFlog thread on Lakin’s conviction supposedly Sharon Rondeau is posting under the “your master” moniker….She is getting eviserated….

    Whichever way it went, Lion, you know the routine well enough. If they gave him long time, they would say that President Obama is doing it for retribution. If they gave him short time, which is the case here, they will say that President Obama is doing it to appease him so that he doesn’t pursue it further.

  33. avatar
    misha December 16, 2010 at 5:12 pm #

    James M: Since she went to Hawaii, it’s clear that she was comfortable with very long air voyages (assuming she went to Hawaii by air). Was she a big traveller, aside from that? And how do we know?

    The Kenya scenario is physically impossible:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-born-in-kenya-no.html

  34. avatar
    ellid December 16, 2010 at 5:13 pm #

    James M:
    Did she ever go there at all?How many times did she leave the country before 1962, and where did she go?Since she went to Hawaii, it’s clear that she was comfortable with very long air voyages (assuming she went to Hawaii by air).Was she a big traveller, aside from that?And how do we know?

    1. The family MOVED from the mainland to Hawaii. They may have flown, but it’s equally likely the Dunhams drove to the West Coast and took a ship to Honolulu. Air travel was much less common and much more expensive in adjusted dollars in the late 1950s than it is today.

    2. The Kenyan government has said, repeatedly, that Stanley Ann Dunham never once set foot in their country. Why do you presume that they’re lying?

    3. As Misha has pointed out, repeatedly, pregnant women were and are prohibited from receiving one of the vaccinations required by the Kenyan government to enter their country. Stanley Ann Dunham could not possibly have visited Kenya during pregnancy.

    4. There is no extant evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham went anywhere outside the United States until well after the birth of her son.

  35. avatar
    Adam December 16, 2010 at 5:35 pm #

    I actually feel sorry for the colonel. He’s a poor sucker who got taken by the birther snakeoil salesmen. Perhaps he suffers from some mental illness that made him susceptible to birther conartists. It’s a pity the latter didn’t do anything illegal, though maybe there’s a case for disbarring his birther lawyers.

    I wouldn’t want to see him get much more than a dishonorable discharge plus a slap on the wrist. We certainly do not want such a deranged individual in the servicem, but I don’t see what good sending him to the clink for 3 years would do.

  36. avatar
    Adam December 16, 2010 at 5:38 pm #

    Woops. I didn’t see this before I wrote my post above:

    “The sentence is a dismissal, confinement for six months, and forfeiture of all pay and allowances.”

    IMHO, the court acted very wisely.

  37. avatar
    Granite December 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm #

    Re: “Obama’s own mother indicated that they (Obama Sr., his mother, and Obama II) had been to Kenya before Obama’s father graduated. ”

    Where did you get this from? Please show a citation, if you are not making it up.

    Perhaps you are referring to Obama’s Kenyan grandmother. But she didn’t say that Obama was born in Kenya and she certainly did not say that Obama’s mother had ever visited Kenya.

    Obama’s Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. She said repeatedly in the taped interview that he was born in Hawaii, where his father was studying, and she said in another interview that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.

    IF a person were born in Kenya, she or he would need a US travel document to get to the USA. That would be either a US visa on a foreign passport or the change to his mother’s US passport to include him. One or the other would have had to have been applied for at a US Consulate in Kenya and granted before the child would be allowed to enter the USA.

    If such a document existed, it would be easy to find because the records of the application for the visa or for the change to the mother’s passport would still be in the files of the US State Department, filed under applications for visas and applications for changes to passports in Kenya in 1961. The Republicans were in charge of the US State Department until January 2009. No such document has been found. No such document exists.

  38. avatar
    James M December 16, 2010 at 5:50 pm #

    Granite:

    Re: “Obama’s own mother indicated that they (Obama Sr., his mother, and Obama II) had been to Kenya before Obama’s father graduated. ”

    Where did you get this from? Please show a citation, if you are not making it up.

    There’s a quote, I think it may be from one of President Obama’s books, but I’m not interested enough to look up a source 🙂

    “Then you were born, and we agreed that the three of us would return to Kenya after he finished his studies.”

    So in birther lore, the words “would return” amount to proof that Ann and Barack Jr. had been to Kenya.

  39. avatar
    James M December 16, 2010 at 5:51 pm #

    Adam: I don’t see what good sending him to the clink for 3 years would do.

    It would send an unmistakable message to others who might consider this kind of insubordination.

    Personally, I believe it speaks highly of his commanders that he wasn’t summarily executed at the moment he deserted his unit. This is wartime after all.

  40. avatar
    James M December 16, 2010 at 5:56 pm #

    ellid: 1. The family MOVED from the mainland to Hawaii. They may have flown, but it’s equally likely the Dunhams drove to the West Coast and took a ship to Honolulu. Air travel was much less common and much more expensive in adjusted dollars in the late 1950s than it is today.

    I am not demented enough to give the birther rebuttal to that. I suppose it would be something along the lines of wanting to see proof like a ship ticket 🙂

    2. The Kenyan government has said, repeatedly, that Stanley Ann Dunham never once set foot in their country. Why do you presume that they’re lying?

    Easy one! It wasn’t their country (Kenya) yet!

    3. As Misha has pointed out, repeatedly, pregnant women were and are prohibited from receiving one of the vaccinations required by the Kenyan government to enter their country. Stanley Ann Dunham could not possibly have visited Kenya during pregnancy.

    Remember, the birther folklore has her travelling without documentation, having vital records fabricated, etc. Not getting shots is a tiny thing for the kind of things these Alinskyite Marxists were willing to do.

    4. There is no extant evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham went anywhere outside the United States until well after the birth of her son.

    Birthers will rebut that there’s no evidence of anything at all, because Obama has managed to hide or destroy all records, we don’t know who he is, etc. According to birther lore, there’s not a shred of evidence that he ever existed before his inauguration/usurpation.

  41. avatar
    richCares December 16, 2010 at 5:57 pm #

    LTC Lakin, convicted on all charges and specifications by a general court-martial, has been sentenced. The sentence is a dismissal, confinement for six months, and forfeiture of all pay and allowances. Lakin will lose 17 years of service, have a federal felony conviction for the rest of his life that will preclude his ability to find civilian employment, he will lose his retirement which was only 3 years away, he gave up a lot for accepting internet rumors. Hating Obama causes brain damage>

  42. avatar
    NdH December 16, 2010 at 7:07 pm #

    Oh my! I seem to have caused a plethora of Obama apologists to demonstrate their ignorance.

    We have everything from The President can’t launch nuclear weapons on his word alone’ to ‘It would have been “physically impossible” to travel to Kenya in 1961’. They all have one thing in common; they’re the rants of the ignorant minions who eat Obama crapola like it’s going out of style.

    Anyone who claims that POTUS can’t launch a nuclear weapon on his authority alone is not familiar with launch protocol.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
    An “alert” is transmitted to all stations. Nuclear submarines man battle stations missile’ and wait for the codes. There is NO ONE in the chain of command with the authority to refuse a verified launch message. The verification is performed by comparing the code to the launch codebook located at each launch station.

    The Dunham’s did not travel from Kansas to Hawaii. They travelled from Mercer Island, Washington to Hawaii.

    Stanley Anne did not attend the Spring semester in Hawaii. If we consider her marriage in Feb. 1961 to be a reliable date, it means that she could have travelled any time between March and August 1961.

    It’s almost laughable to find people insisting that Stanley Anne wouldn’t give birth in Kenya because it wouldn’t be a good choice. —-Getting knocked-up by a foreign student who was nearly 8 years her senior wasn’t too bright. Neither was bringing young Obama II to Indonesia. But she did it anyway. Didn’t she.

    Then we have those who keep crying that no other Presidents ever had to show a certified copy of their original birth certificate. That’s just an Obot smoke screen. Kennedy, Carter, Ford, Reagan, Eisenhower, Truman, and both Bush’s were all prior military officers who would have held security clearances. There is no question that they were properly vetted. Only Clinton and Obama would be post-nuclear Presidents that were not properly vetted. They would have held no military security clearance. Most people aren’t even aware that Clinton was adopted.** –I have yet to find a newspaper article (we didn’t have blogs before Clinton was elected) that disclosed the question of Clinton’s lineage. We can’t expect the public to question that which was never presented.
    (**- It should be noted that like Obama, the Democrats controlled both Houses when Clinton took office.) As anyone with half a brain can see, with the exception of Clinton and Obama, all post-nuclear Presidents would have been investigated in order to obtain their security clearance. So stop whining.

    Which takes us to the unsupported statements made by the resident propogandists:
    “The Kenyan government has said, repeatedly, that Stanley Ann Dunham never once set foot in their country.” –Anything to support this? I didn’t think so.

    Then we have “misha” (our loveable Jewish photog) who says travel to Kenya would have been “physically impossible”. Really? Care to make a wager? Good grief. With almost 6 months unaccounted for, you think travel would be “physically impossible”?

  43. avatar
    Steve December 16, 2010 at 7:12 pm #

    NdH: Oh my! I seem to have caused a plethora of Obama apologists to demonstrate their ignorance.We have everything from The President can’t launch nuclear weapons on his word alone’ to ‘It would have been “physically impossible” to travel to Kenya in 1961’. They all have one thing in common; they’re the rants of the ignorant minions who eat Obama crapola like it’s going out of style.Anyone who claims that POTUS can’t launch a nuclear weapon on his authority alone is not familiar with launch protocol.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_footballAn “alert” is transmitted to all stations. Nuclear submarines man battle stations missile’ and wait for the codes. There is NO ONE in the chain of command with the authority to refuse a verified launch message. The verification is performed by comparing the code to the launch codebook located at each launch station.The Dunham’s did not travel from Kansas to Hawaii. They travelled from Mercer Island, Washington to Hawaii.Stanley Anne did not attend the Spring semester in Hawaii. If we consider her marriage in Feb. 1961 to be a reliable date, it means that she could have travelled any time between March and August 1961.It’s almost laughable to find people insisting that Stanley Anne wouldn’t give birth in Kenya because it wouldn’t be a good choice. —-Getting knocked-up by a foreign student who was nearly 8 years her senior wasn’t too bright. Neither was bringing young Obama II to Indonesia. But she did it anyway. Didn’t she.Then we have those who keep crying that no other Presidents ever had to show a certified copy of their original birth certificate. That’s just an Obot smoke screen. Kennedy, Carter, Ford, Reagan, Eisenhower, Truman, and both Bush’s were all prior military officers who would have held security clearances. There is no question that they were properly vetted. Only Clinton and Obama would be post-nuclear Presidents that were not properly vetted. They would have held no military security clearance. Most people aren’t even aware that Clinton was adopted.** –I have yet to find a newspaper article (we didn’t have blogs before Clinton was elected) that disclosed the question of Clinton’s lineage. We can’t expect the public to question that which was never presented.(**- It should be noted that like Obama, the Democrats controlled both Houses when Clinton took office.) As anyone with half a brain can see, with the exception of Clinton and Obama, all post-nuclear Presidents would have been investigated in order to obtain their security clearance. So stop whining.Which takes us to the unsupported statements made by the resident propogandists:“The Kenyan government has said, repeatedly, that Stanley Ann Dunham never once set foot in their country.” –Anything to support this? I didn’t think so.Then we have “misha” (our loveable Jewish photog) who says travel to Kenya would have been “physically impossible”. Really? Care to make a wager? Good grief. With almost 6 months unaccounted for, you think travel would be “physically impossible”?

    So you’re saying that it is possible for a 17-year-old pregnant woman with no money to travel from Hawaii to Kenya?

  44. avatar
    NdH December 16, 2010 at 7:13 pm #

    “As Misha has pointed out, repeatedly, pregnant women were and are prohibited from receiving one of the vaccinations required by the Kenyan government to enter their country. Stanley Ann Dunham could not possibly have visited Kenya during pregnancy.”

    Vaccination was not mandatory. Pregnant women just didn’t get the vaccine.

    The burden lies with the claimant. Misha has yet to provide any documented evidence to support his claim.

    “There is no extant evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham went anywhere outside the United States until well after the birth of her son.”

    Except that Obama quoted her saying that they would “return”. Indicative of having been there previously.

  45. avatar
    aarrgghh December 16, 2010 at 7:52 pm #

    NdH: Anyone who claims that POTUS can’t launch a nuclear weapon on his authority alone is not familiar with launch protocol.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

    welcome back, skippy! i noticed you left something out of your pickings from that wikipedia page:

    If the President (who is Commander-in-Chief) decides to order the use of nuclear weapons, he would be taken aside by the “carrier” and the briefcase opened. Then a command signal or “watch” alert would be issued to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The President would then review the attack options with the aide and decide upon a plan which could range from a single cruise missile to multiple ICBM launches …

    … The United States has a two-man rule in place, and while only the President can order the release of nuclear weapons, the order must be confirmed by the Secretary of Defense

    sorry, charlie, but you’re busted. maybe it’s time you did something about your obama derangement symptoms. they’re obviously affecting your ability to read.

  46. avatar
    Daniel December 16, 2010 at 8:06 pm #

    Gee NdH…. I guess you should try to get someone with actual authority to challenge Obama’s eligibility to start the ball rolling.

    I wonder why mno one has thought of that?

    BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

  47. avatar
    Rickey December 16, 2010 at 8:21 pm #

    NdH:Kennedy, Carter, Ford, Reagan, Eisenhower, Truman, and both Bush’s were all prior military officers who would have held security clearances.

    You don’t have to be born in the United States to become a military officer and/or be granted a security clearance. In fact, the U.S. Army has had four 4-star generals who were not born in the United States.

    Most people aren’t even aware that Clinton was adopted.** –I have yet to find a newspaper article (we didn’t have blogs before Clinton was elected) that disclosed the question of Clinton’s lineage.

    Most people aren’t “aware” because it never happened. Clinton had his surname legally changed, but he was never adopted by his stepfather. If you have evidence that he was adopted, please provide it.

  48. avatar
    Scientist December 16, 2010 at 8:53 pm #

    Wow, I haven’t been here in a few months, but it seems I haven’t missed much. One might have imagined that the birthers would have come up with a few new arguments to entertain us, but, sadly, no.

    As far as the nuclear stuff (or nucular as Bush used to say), of course the Presidennt can’t wake up one morning and decide to nuke Chile because he feels like it. There are multiple steps between him and the guys who physically launch the missiles, as arrgghh and others have pointed out.

    Even if the President could launch all by his lonesome, what is the correlation between place of birth and good judgment? What would lead one to conclude that someone born in another country and brought here as a newborn would have better or worse judgment in matters of life and death? I certainly have seen no evidence to that effect. We had one nuclear-era President who was an unindicted co-conspirator and another who suffered rather advanced Alzheimer’s dementia and survived. Not to mention that our lives are in the hands of the leaders of the other nuclear powers (even France and Briitain could wipe out much of humankind) as well as the US President. Those have included mass murderers (Stalin and Mao) drunks (Yeltsin) and someone incapacitated by late-stage terminal cancer (Mitterand). And for the current crowd, I have never seen a birth certificate for Medvedev, Hu, Cameron or Sarkozy. But I have for Obama.

    Anyway, Obama has been in office for almost 2 years now and hasn’t nuked anybody. In fact,, he is trying to get the cretins in the Senate to ratify the START treaty which would actually REDUCE the risks of nuclear war (as testified to by all living Secretaries of State, including several Republicans).

    As far as whether Stanley Anne Dunham was ever in Kenya, no one is saying it was physically impossible. But our friend NdH’s standard demands proof that she wasn’t ever there. Now, I can prove that I have been to certain places, but how in God’s name could I ever prove that I HAVEN’T been somewhere? Calling Rene Descartes..

  49. avatar
    BatGuano December 16, 2010 at 9:00 pm #

    NdH: Then we have those who keep crying that no other Presidents ever had to show a certified copy of their original birth certificate. That’s just an Obot smoke screen. Kennedy, Carter, Ford, Reagan, Eisenhower, Truman, and both Bush’s were all prior military officers who would have held security clearances. There is no question that they were properly vetted

    ok, who vetted what, when and how? what is standard procedure in the military?

    we know that Ike, the 2nd highest military ranking president after washington, didn’t have a birth certificate till far into his senior years and only then based off the word of his older brother ( who was 4 at the time of ike’s birth ).

    truman reached the level of 0-6 shortly after WWI. were vetting standards for security clearence the same back then ?

    lbj & nixon both reached the level of 0-5 during WWII so there is an argument to be made that there were background checks. would like to hear from a WWII expert on this one.

    ford was 0-4 with combat duty in WWII.

    kennedy, carter and reagan were 0-3. kennedy was the only one that saw combat and reagan was part of the “hollywood cantina” ( not to detract from the moral work it provided but definetely not to put it on the same level as combat soldiers ).

    both bush were 0-2.

  50. avatar
    misha December 16, 2010 at 9:17 pm #

    NdH: Then we have “misha” (our loveable Jewish photog)

    Make that Jewish kibbutznik.

    “Jewish photog”

    Typical goy.

  51. avatar
    misha December 16, 2010 at 9:23 pm #

    James M: these Alinskyite Marxists were willing to do.

    Yeah, Alinsky was Jewish and a socialist. So am I.

    Hitler and Mussolini were Roman Catholic.

  52. avatar
    James M December 16, 2010 at 9:30 pm #

    NdH:

    Except that Obama quoted her saying that they would “return”. Indicative of having been there previously.

    Prove with evidence that meets the standards of a federal criminal trial, that Stanley Ann Dunham gave birth to Barack Hussein Obama the younger in Kenya.

    Once you do that, this dialogue can begin. You take the tone of closing arguments in a dialogue that has not yet opened. It’s yours to open, with evidence.

  53. avatar
    Slartibartfast December 16, 2010 at 11:22 pm #

    NdH: The burden lies with the claimant.

    Um… aren’t you the one claiming that the president was not born in Hawaii despite the publication of the image of a document that would be accepted by every single federal and state court in the country as a valid birth certificate? Without sufficient evidence to meet the burden of this claim…

    There’s a word for that.

    Hypocrite.

    Scientist,

    Welcome back. If you haven’t read about Bovril’s project to estimate birther demographics, you should check it out here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/12/diluted-title/#comment-81388

  54. avatar
    BatGuano December 16, 2010 at 11:50 pm #

    Steve: ….to ‘It would have been “physically impossible” to travel to Kenya in 1961’.

    it is not impossible for a car to travel at over 150 mph for over 100 miles. it’s just not likely to happen in a ’72 VW bug at 5pm friday in los angeles.

  55. avatar
    misha December 16, 2010 at 11:54 pm #

    BatGuano: it is not impossible for a car to travel at over 150 mph for over 100 miles. it’s just not likely to happen in a ’72 VW bug at 5pm friday in los angeles.

    Uh, oh.

  56. avatar
    BatGuano December 17, 2010 at 12:23 am #

    misha:
    Uh, oh.

    what ? did i just start the birther myth that obama was born in the back a VW bug in los angeles inn 1972 ???? the fahrfegnugen factor that de vattel warned the founding fathers against ????

  57. avatar
    BatGuano December 17, 2010 at 12:28 am #

    it was a typo but i do believe there was a “Los Angeles Inn” near disneyland in the mid-70s.

  58. avatar
    misha December 17, 2010 at 12:44 am #

    BatGuano: what ? did i just start the birther myth that obama was born in the back a VW bug in los angeles inn 1972 ???? the fahrfegnugen factor that de vattel warned the founding fathers against ????

    Hush, we’re supposed to keep it a secret.

  59. avatar
    Keith December 17, 2010 at 2:38 am #

    BatGuano:
    what ? did i just start the birther myth that obama was born in the back a VW bug in los angeles inn 1972 ???? the fahrfegnugen factor that de vattel warned the founding fathers against ????

    Geeze. Now we’re all gonna miss our end of year bonuses from Mr. Soros and I hear the Kochs have just sent out their victory checks to the Lakinistas.

    You owe us GuanoMan.

  60. avatar
    misha December 17, 2010 at 4:26 am #

    Keith: Now we’re all gonna miss our end of year bonuses from Mr. Soros

    I said it before: no one else is supposed to know.

  61. avatar
    ellid December 17, 2010 at 7:43 am #

    NdH: Oh my! I seem to have caused a plethora of Obama apologists to demonstrate their ignorance.We have everything from The President can’t launch nuclear weapons on his word alone’ to ‘It would have been “physically impossible” to travel to Kenya in 1961’. They all have one thing in common; they’re the rants of the ignorant minions who eat Obama crapola like it’s going out of style.Anyone who claims that POTUS can’t launch a nuclear weapon on his authority alone is not familiar with launch protocol.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
    An “alert” is transmitted to all stations. Nuclear submarines man battle stations missile’ and wait for the codes. There is NO ONE in the chain of command with the authority to refuse a verified launch message. The verification is performed by comparing the code to the launch codebook located at each launch station.The Dunham’s did not travel from Kansas to Hawaii. They travelled from Mercer Island, Washington to Hawaii.Stanley Anne did not attend the Spring semester in Hawaii. If we consider her marriage in Feb. 1961 to be a reliable date, it means that she could have travelled any time between March and August 1961.It’s almost laughable to find people insisting that Stanley Anne wouldn’t give birth in Kenya because it wouldn’t be a good choice. —-Getting knocked-up by a foreign student who was nearly 8 years her senior wasn’t too bright. Neither was bringing young Obama II to Indonesia. But she did it anyway. Didn’t she.Then we have those who keep crying that no other Presidents ever had to show a certified copy of their original birth certificate. That’s just an Obot smoke screen.Kennedy, Carter, Ford, Reagan, Eisenhower, Truman, and both Bush’s were all prior military officers who would have held security clearances. There is no question that they were properly vetted. Only Clinton and Obama would be post-nuclear Presidents that were not properly vetted. They would have held no military security clearance. Most people aren’t even aware that Clinton was adopted.** –I have yet to find a newspaper article (we didn’t have blogs before Clinton was elected) that disclosed the question of Clinton’s lineage. We can’t expect the public to question that which was never presented.
    (**- It should be noted that like Obama, the Democrats controlled both Houses when Clinton took office.) As anyone with half a brain can see, with the exception of Clinton and Obama, all post-nuclear Presidents would have been investigated in order to obtain their security clearance. So stop whining.Which takes us to the unsupported statements made by the resident propogandists:
    “The Kenyan government has said, repeatedly, that Stanley Ann Dunham never once set foot in their country.” –Anything to support this? I didn’t think so.Then we have “misha” (our loveable Jewish photog) who says travel to Kenya would have been “physically impossible”. Really? Care to make a wager? Good grief. With almost 6 months unaccounted for, you think travel would be “physically impossible”?

    Not only a birther, but perilously close to an anti-Semite. Pathetic.

  62. avatar
    ellid December 17, 2010 at 7:48 am #

    NdH: “As Misha has pointed out, repeatedly, pregnant women were and are prohibited from receiving one of the vaccinations required by the Kenyan government to enter their country. Stanley Ann Dunham could not possibly have visited Kenya during pregnancy.”Vaccination was not mandatory. Pregnant women just didn’t get the vaccine.The burden lies with the claimant. Misha has yet to provide any documented evidence to support his claim.“There is no extant evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham went anywhere outside the United States until well after the birth of her son.”Except that Obama quoted her saying that they would “return”. Indicative of having been there previously.

    Sorry, but foreign countries check for proof of vaccination at the entry point. Failure to produce a vaccination certificate for yellow fever would have resulted in the individual being put on the next boat/plane back to the United States.

    FAIL.

  63. avatar
    misha December 17, 2010 at 9:17 am #

    ellid: Not only a birther, but perilously close to an anti-Semite.

    Perilously? I’d say Mel Gibson type.

  64. avatar
    Black Lion December 17, 2010 at 10:13 am #

    misha: Here’s from the Stars & Stripes:http://www.stripes.com/news/birther-sentenced-to-six-months-in-prison-kicked-out-of-army-1.128924

    Interesting article…Especially the part below…

    “As part of their sentencing evidence, prosecutors played Lakin’s video for the jury. In it, he states that a president who is not a natural-born citizen “would subvert law and truth” and demands that Obama “release your original, signed birth certificate — if you have one.”

    During an hour of unsworn testimony, Lakin called that video an embarrassing mistake, brought on by pressure and poor advice from supposed supporters.

    “I would not do this again,” he said. “It was a confusing time for me, and I was very emotional. I thought I was choosing the right path, and I did not.”

    Advertisement
    Lakin said he still believes questions exist about the president’s eligibility for office, but he told jurors that disobeying Army orders to prove that point was a poor way to show his frustration about what he said was a lack of investigation into the issue.

    The 45-year-old physician appeared somber and exhausted from two days in court, and was battered by his own civilian defense lawyer during his sentencing statement.

    “Are you done disobeying orders, Col. Lakin?” attorney Neal Puckett angrily asked his client. “You invited this court-martial. You invited this sentence. And for the rest of your life, you get to live with a federal felony conviction.”

    Lakin sheepishly nodded along, while pictures of his wife and three children were shown to the jury.

    Birthers in the gallery, who interrupted several portions of the afternoon session with applause at references to Obama’s birth certificate, reacted harshly to the questioning, shaking their heads and muttering “disgusting” as the defense attorney drew tears from his client.

    Afterward they said their animosity was directed more at the court than at the defendant, who was not allowed to broach the topic of Obama’s legitimacy during the criminal proceedings.”

  65. avatar
    Arthur December 17, 2010 at 10:19 am #

    Speaking of bad information, Talking Points Memo cites a recently released study by the University of Maryland, called “‘Misinformation and the 2010 Election,’ [that] looked at ‘variations in misinformation by exposure to news sources . . . the study found that daily Fox News viewers, regardless of political party, were ‘significantly’ more likely than non-viewers to erroneously believe that

    * Most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (12 points more likely)

    * Most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points)

    * The economy is getting worse (26 points)

    * Most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points)

    * The stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points)

    * Their own income taxes have gone up (14 points)

    * The auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points)

    * When TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points)

    * And that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points)”