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Blog on vacation

Maybe!

Dr. Conspiracy

Tomorrow (Jan. 10) I will either be at home in South Carolina with 20° (F) temperatures, under 4-8 inches of snow and sleet, or I will be basking in the mid 80’s in Panama. You can follow the weather on our new Blog Weather Alert in the right sidebar.

Assuming the weather allows my departure, the blog will be on vacation January 10-27. (If the weather does not cooperate, I will just leave later.) I will leave an open thread tomorrow that will be good for 18 days and then it will automatically close. Anything that goes into moderation will stay there unless I have a chance and the inclination to get in the Internet while traveling. Anything with the F word, the S word or the AH word triggers moderation, as does a comment with a bunch of hyperlinks.

Since this open thread will be open longer than usual, I ask you not to be too chatty or else there will be so many comments the blog software may become unstable.

If I find a copy of John McCain’s birth certificate while I am in Panama, I will find a way to get it posted!

Update:

Well, I got out of Greenville, only to get stuck in Atlanta and have to spend the night in the UNHEATED, curse them, airport. I got sick from some kind of virus as a result.

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74 Responses to Blog on vacation

  1. avatar
    Black Lion January 9, 2011 at 10:00 pm #

    Doc, Good Luck and if you are able to get out, enjoy your vacation…You deserve it…

  2. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 9, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    Doc,

    Good luck on escaping the country and have a great vacation!

  3. avatar
    Majority Will January 9, 2011 at 10:45 pm #

    Doc,

    Enjoy and be careful out there!

  4. avatar
    sarina January 9, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    Enjoy your vacation!

  5. avatar
    sfjeff January 10, 2011 at 2:04 am #

    Have a great time.

  6. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 10, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    I’m posting off-topic on this thread to preserve space on the new open thread while Doc is in Panama…

    Has anyone else seen Ms. Tickly’s latest:

    http://obamasgarden.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/verification-is-certifcation/

    Is she just tilting at windmills again or does she have a real chance… of obtaining further proof of President Obama’s birthplace?

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2011 at 9:11 pm #

    Stuck in Atlanta. 24 hour delay.

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    Re: Verification.

    I tried to get one 2 years ago and failed, but the Verification in Lieu of a Certified copy is certainly a promising avenue, particularly for an attorney preparing a lawsuit; however, the verification will tell nothing not already known. It would not, for example, name the attending physician. At best it would prove that the COLB is accurate.

  9. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 10, 2011 at 9:42 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Re: Verification.
    I tried to get one 2 years ago and failed, but the Verification in Lieu of a Certified copy is certainly a promising avenue, particularly for an attorney preparing a lawsuit; however, the verification will tell nothing not already known. It would not, for example, name the attending physician. At best it would prove that the COLB is accurate.

    Thanks for the response – hope your vacation gets going with no further hitches…

    The fact that this avenue cannot possibly do more than verify the information already known is what interests me – this has ‘BIRTHER EPIC FAIL # (I forget how many there have been exactly)’ written all over it…

  10. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 11, 2011 at 12:08 am #

    If I find a copy of John McCain’s birth certificate while I am in Panama, I will find a way to get it posted!
    ——————————————
    Be sure to check under MCCANE. He was adopted you know.

  11. avatar
    Bovril January 11, 2011 at 6:23 am #

    Based on the epic FAIL of our friends the Birfoons I predict that any such records and verification would FIRST be dependant upon there beinng an actual case….too whit there would have to be standing.

    Of course, as Dr CV has already noted, BFD if they a “verification” they won’t believe any information that did not conform to their insane world view.

  12. avatar
    Bovril January 11, 2011 at 8:27 am #

    As some may recall, I have a medium term project underway to attempt to identify, via postings, a better idea of the ACTUAL number of feral Birfers out in the wild.

    Due to work and personal commitments the task is taking far longer than I hoped for, but for your delectation and as an example…..

    A rather less articulate Birfoon than even Sven, popped up on Fogbow, blathered in the traditional incoherent manner, was tentaively ID’d as one of the participants at the Lakin court martial and had her fashion sense excoriated.

    This lead to the same idiot running off, tail between legs to post nasty at Dr Kates

    http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5142&p=201299#p201299

    If nothing else this also managed to goad the stupid cow into divulging a selection of her sock puppets in further demonstration of how few ACTUAL birfoons there are..

    Par example.

    In the thread http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/on-the-move/#comments

    The same muppet forgot to change their email address when they posted under several sockies, so the gravatar stayed the same.

    We now know the idiot uses the following FAIL ID’s

    Papoose
    HornetsNest
    Witness
    Colourist
    SEIUbeggar
    birtherloon
    NoBo4Me

    So, on a thread of 15 posts, we have

    2 x Dr Kates
    8 x Papooses
    3 x Troys
    1 x Ken
    1 x Jan

    I loves me some empirical proof of Birfer insignificance and stupidity…………….. 😈

  13. avatar
    Scientist January 11, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    Bovril-Given the ablity to post under multiple aliases, I’m not sure the internet is really the place to derive the best estimate. The question really is, “How many care enough to actually leave their parents’ basemment and show up in person at a birther event?” If we take a number of such events-the Lakin court martial, the Manning “trial”, various demonstrations on the Mall-the typical turnout is in the low-double digits. Each of those took place within a few hours drive of somewhere around 10% (conservatively speaking) of the total US population, so extrapolating to the country as a whole that gives somewhere in the range of a few hundred.

    That’s it, a few hundred souls As for the polls that say some fraction of the population thinks he might have been born outside the US, many of them may consider him eligible regardless because of his mother’s citizenship (a legal gray area), many may consider eligibility a matter for Congress to settle at the time of the election at which point it becomes moot (constitutionally that is quite correct), and many may not care much whether someone is eligible or not, but are interested only in their job performance (a perfectly defensible position on practical grounds). I suspect the number who truly care about the issue is miniiscule, as evidence by the turnout at their own much-touted events.

  14. avatar
    Bovril January 11, 2011 at 10:43 am #

    Scientist,

    Oh Birfoons wildly exaggerate their importance, significance and size, that’s a given….. 😎

    The issue is that there are relatively few definitive manners in which to identify the overarching populace. There are basically three types and several classes of the Birfoon clade.

    Active…..Pretty self explanatory, heavy posters, seen at sites such as WND, Pest and Fail etc. Also troll the Web to jump on news stories etc with even the slightest and most tangential linkage to Birfoondom. The current tragedy of the shooting has brought them out as did the Lakin court-martial

    Occassional….. Again pretty obvious, these are the ones that only get riled up during a specific press story, so for example the recent Open Birfing of Luke Scott of the Orioles is a perfect example. These tend to be pretty inarticulate and just hate the President and have latched onto Birfing as a “legitimate” excuse. Not big repeat posters and drop into the background noise rapidly.

    Passive These are the difficult to gather numbers and can only be extrapolated from similar behaviour groups.

    I’m working on gathering a statistically viable sampled breakdown and analysis of Birthers in the first two types and will then extrapolate the probable numbers of the 3rd type leading to hopefully a sound overall populace estimate.

    I also hope to gather enough data to provide a taxonomy (maybe toxicity…) of the classes of Birfer, such as Vattelist, 14th Amendment citizen, Dual Citizens etc.

    One particular task/problem is to attempt to identify sock puppets which are regularly used to aggrandize the importance of the Birthers by artificially inflating the perceived numbers….to whit my posting above……The use of a “gravatar” as a unique identifier, which is linked to a unique email address allowed me to

    Demonstrate the method can work
    Identify ID’s for weighting later
    Show the self aggrandizing nature of the Birfoons
    Record a snapshot of inflation numbers to use at the analysis stage

    As I said very early stage but fun when I can get dug into it….although I also have to mentally wash frequently as some of the posting insanity does tend to leave one feeling dirty over time.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2011 at 11:45 pm #

    Hola from Panama City, Panama. I have Internet at the hotel.

    They have a whole section at the supermarket here dedicated to copies of John McCain’s birth certificate in a variety of fonts, colors and birth locations. They all look pretty cheesy to me. The investigation continues.

  16. avatar
    Majority Will January 12, 2011 at 12:05 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Hola from Panama City, Panama. I have Internet at the hotel.They have a whole section at the supermarket here dedicated to copies of John McCain’s birth certificate in a variety of fonts, colors and birth locations. They all look pretty cheesy to me. The investigation continues.

    Hola, amigo! 😀

    Congratulations on making it there!

    I’m starting to feel like Jack Torrance since being trapped at home since Sunday.

    I’d better go check the boiler again.

  17. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 12, 2011 at 12:06 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Hola from Panama City, Panama. I have Internet at the hotel.They have a whole section at the supermarket here dedicated to copies of John McCain’s birth certificate in a variety of fonts, colors and birth locations. They all look pretty cheesy to me. The investigation continues.

    Cool – can you bring us back one in calligraphy with pink polka dots that says John McCain was born in the ashes of his own fiery demise and is the child of a time-traveling oroborus and an phoenix? (both US citizens, of course) And make sure that the seal is raised, not incised… 😉

  18. avatar
    obsolete January 12, 2011 at 3:28 am #

    Cool stuff, Bovril!

  19. avatar
    Northland10 January 12, 2011 at 6:47 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: a whole section at the supermarket here dedicated to copies of John McCain’s birth certificate

    Maybe you should have taken Dr. Ron with you to authenticate the BCs. 😉

  20. avatar
    Keith January 12, 2011 at 6:57 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: They have a whole section at the supermarket here dedicated to copies of John McCain’s birth certificate in a variety of fonts, colors and birth locations. They all look pretty cheesy to me. The investigation continues.

    mmmmmm. I love Latin American cheese. Manchego and Enchilado are beautiful.

    Too bad the Aussie’s won’t let me bring it in. We can get Spanish Manchego but nothing like Enchilado or Queso Blanco.

  21. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny January 12, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Hola from Panama City, Panama. I have Internet at the hotel.They have a whole section at the supermarket here dedicated to copies of John McCain’s birth certificate in a variety of fonts, colors and birth locations. They all look pretty cheesy to me. The investigation continues.

    I am sure that if you ask the right person the right question, you’ll be able to get a birth certificate stating not only the birth location of your choice (Washout in Provincia de Bocas del Toro is a nice one), but even the mother’s maiden name of your choice. Go for Dunham or Velamoor. Not only will the certificate be fully authenticated under the laws of Panama with a raised seal and baby footies, but it will also be signed by the only obstetrician in Panama still alive to testify about McCain’s birth and will cost no more than 300 dollars.

    Which you will easily recoup later, if you don’t forget to record your (totally unrelated, but surely already planned) visit to the Republic of Panama’s Ancient Archives building, while holding your camera upside down.

  22. avatar
    Rickey January 12, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Hola from Panama City, Panama. I have Internet at the hotel.They have a whole section at the supermarket here dedicated to copies of John McCain’s birth certificate in a variety of fonts, colors and birth locations. They all look pretty cheesy to me. The investigation continues.

    Congratulations on a safe arrival, Doc!

    If you come across a John McCain Birth Certificate place mat, I want one.

  23. avatar
    Black Lion January 21, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    Some of the other threads were really getting long so I decided to post this here…It seems like our non-esteemed DUI attorney has decided to opine on the Governor of HI’s statement….As usual it is long on innuendo and short on facts….Mario’s tenacity in the face of such losing odds just confirms his and Kerchner’s Obama derangement….Quite said actually….

    “We know that Hawaii Governor, Neil Abercrombie turned Indiana Jones, said on Tuesday, January 18, 2011, that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961. He told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser: “It actually exists in the archives, written down.” But what he discovered is an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate. In the same interview, Abercrombie suggested that Obama’s long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate may not exist within the Hawaii Department of Health’s vital records that it maintains on file. He added that efforts were still being made to prove Obama was born in Hawaii by locating definitive vital records. Read more at: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BckShEfz

    What is amazing is that with such earth-shattering revelations, many of Obama’s supporters still say that the “birthers” are racists, bigots, and conspiracy nuts.

    How difficult could it be for the Governor of a state to find a birth certificate within the official records of his own state? First, Americans obtain and produce them everyday for a sundry of reasons. Second, if the hunt for the birth certificate is like looking for and finding the holy grail of documents, how did the Hawaii Department of Health prepare Obama’s alleged Certification of Live Birth (COLB) which was allegedly prepared in paper form in 2007 and whose alleged image was posted on the internet in 2008? Why has Hawaii to this day not confirmed that the internet COLB was prepared by its health department and that the document is in fact real?

    Where did the Hawaii Health Department get all the information that is allegedly stated on the COLB if the only record of Obama’s birth is “an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate?”

    During the 2008 election, Hawaii’s Director of Health, Chiyome Fukino, said: “There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii.”

    Months later, in July 2009, she added: “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.” Note that Fukino said in her first statement that she saw and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Obama’s “original birth certificate.” But how do we explain now that Governor Abercrombie says that such a birth certificate might not exist.

    On October 26, 2008, WND reported that “it had learned that Hawaii’s Gov. Linda Lingle has placed Obama’s birth certificate under seal and instructed the state’s Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.” The Governor’s office even declined to provide WND with a copy of the document. http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=79174. So what happened to the birth certificate that former Governor Lingle placed under seal?

    On May 2, 2010, in a radio interview with New York’s WABC radio, former Governor Lingle even said: “So I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go personally view the birth certificate in the birth records of the Department of Health, and we issued a news release at that time saying that the president was, in fact, born at Kapi’olani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And that’s just a fact and yet people continue to call up and e-mail and want to make it an issue and I think it’s again a horrible distraction for the country by those people who continue this.” http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=150125. So again, what happened to that birth certificate that the health director personally viewed?

    Why has Governor Abercrombie in his defense of Obama and in his search for Obama’s birth certificate not talked about the COLB or even attempted to get a paper copy of it? After all, if Obama had no problem with his campaign staff having it in their hands and others taking pictures of it, why can he not put that same document in the hands of his life-long friend, Governor Abercrombie?

    If it is true as is suggested by Governor Abercrombie that Obama’s long-form birth certificate might not exist, why did the Hawaii Department of Health never reveal that information to the American people? Why did no one from the Hawaii Department of Health or Election Office come to the defense of Timothy Adams, the Chief Elections Clerk in Honolulu during the 2008 Presidential Election, who was viciously attacked by Obama’s supporters and the media for saying just that?

    Section 338-5 of the Hawaiian statute provides: “§338-5 Compulsory registration of births. Within the time prescribed by the department of health, a certificate of every birth shall be substantially completed and filed with the local agent of the department in the district in which the birth occurred, by the administrator or designated representative of the birthing facility, or physician, or midwife, or other legally authorized person in attendance at the birth; or if not so attended, by one of the parents. The birth facility shall make available to the department appropriate medical records for the purpose of monitoring compliance with the provisions of this chapter. [L 1949, c 327, §9; RL 1955, §57-8; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-5; am L 1988, c 149, §1].”

    If Obama was born in a hospital as he claims, we cannot reasonably believe that his birth certificate would have been completed and filed by one of his parents. Additionally, under Section 338-5, Hawaii has the power and authority to obtain medical records from Kapi’olani Medical Center to confirm Obama’s alleged Hawaiian birth. If no long-form birth certificate exists, one would think that Hawaii would have taken additional steps to make sure that Obama was born there before making any announcements to the American public that he in fact was born there. At no time did Hawaii inform the American public that it in fact confirmed with that hospital that Obama was in fact born there which it can do under the cited statute. Hawaii has withheld this underlying evidence from the public. This withholding of evidence is a grave matter given that there exists such reasonable doubt as to whether Obama, the putative President and Commander in Chief of our military, was in fact born in Hawaii.

    Why does Governor Abercrombie not use the powers given by Section 338-5 to the State of Hawaii to obtain the medical records from Kapi’olani Maternity Ward (now called Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women & Children) in Honolulu, Hawaii, where Obama says he was born and which would conclusively prove he was born there on August 4, 1961?

    If Governor Abercrombie is so sincere and such a good friend of Obama and his parents, why can he not just call Obama on the phone and ask him to help him out? He can even ask Obama to get a copy of his and his mother’s medical records from Kapi’olani Medical Center.

    In short, should it be that difficult for Hawaii Governor Abercrombie to locate Obama’s long-form birth certificate in the records of the Hawaii Health Department or otherwise confirm with medical records from Hawaiian hospital, Kapi’olani Medical Center, that Obama was born in that hospital? Who are we kidding here? ”

    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/

  24. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 22, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    BL man that Cheese guy is getting more and more disgusting with his comments. I knew it wouldn’t take long to show his true colors and bust out the racism. Now it’s Obama isn’t really black anyway.

  25. avatar
    Black Lion January 23, 2011 at 8:45 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): BL man that Cheese guy is getting more and more disgusting with his comments. I knew it wouldn’t take long to show his true colors and bust out the racism. Now it’s Obama isn’t really black anyway.

    I saw…He hates us with a passion….To him we are both affirmative action graduates of a HBCU that are working for mininum wage to post postivie stuff for Obama….plus we are just “boys”…Did I miss any stereotype? He is just one of those individuals that proves it is all about race when it comes to the entire birther issue….

  26. avatar
    Black Lion January 23, 2011 at 9:38 am #

    More Obama derangement…

    Slight Uptick In Pedestrian Deaths Is Apparently Michelle Obama’s Fault [UPDATE]

    As Ashley Halsey III, in the Washington Post, reports:

    It is the kind risk teenagers take: darting across six lanes of traffic, paying no mind to the flashing sign warning pedestrians to await the green light.
    Wayne Cuffy and his buddies bolted across Landover Road on their way to the mall Tuesday night, a mistake that cost the 15-year-old his life when he stepped in front of a Ford Expedition at Dodge Park Road.

    A terrible tragedy, to be sure, one that figures into new statistics from the Governor’s Highway Safety Administration, which finds that pedestrian deaths ticked upwards by a teensy 0.4 percent in 2010. And all of those deaths could have been prevented if only Michelle Obama hadn’t been encouraging Wayne Cuffy and his buddies to get out there and start exercising, right?

    The Daily Caller is pretty sure they have this all figured out, anyway:

    Pedestrian deaths increased sharply during the first half of 2010, according to the Governors Highway Safety Association (GHSA). The reason may be First Lady Michelle Obama and her “Let’s Move” campaign.
    That’s right! While an intelligent read of everyone else’s reporting on the slight uptick in pedestrian deaths might lead you to conclude that more pedestrians are distracted by their iPods and smart-phones, or that pedestrians are growing more aggressive, The Daily Caller’s Amanda Carey is pretty sure that this is all being caused by that time Michelle Obama urged children, “Let’s Move!” as though she meant, “Let’s move right in front of some moving cars!”

    Carey basically echoes this piece from the Washington Examiner, in which the executive director of GHSA discusses the extent to which Michelle Obama is to blame for people dying in the streets in a way that I would term “highly equivocal”:

    GHSA executive director Barbara Harsha said her organization doesn’t know why there were more deaths in the first six months of 2010 than in 2009, but the increase is notable because overall traffic fatalities went down 8 percent during this period, and the increase ends four straight years of steady declines in pedestrian deaths.
    But the “get moving” movement, led by Obama’s “Let’s Move” campaign to eliminate childhood obesity, could be to blame, Harsha told The Washington Examiner.

    “There’s an emphasis these days to getting fit, and I think people doing that are more exposed to risk [of getting hit by a vehicle],” said Harsha, who conceded to having no scientific evidence that the Let’s Move campaign has led to an increase in walkers and runners, or deaths.

    “This is all speculative,” Harsha said. “Obviously, further study is needed.”

    Kids, before you exercise, remember to get yourself stretched out at least as far as the above stretches the meanings of words like “told” and “conceded.”

    UPDATE: GHSA’s communications director, Jonathan Adkins, tells the Huffington Post: “Barbara Harsha was completely misquoted by the D.C. Examiner. Certainly, we don’t blame Mrs. Obama for the uptick in pedestrian deaths. In fact, we support “Get Moving” programs. We just want to ensure pedestrian safety.”

    Meanwhile, deaths from heart disease — the nation’s leading killer of humans — were down considerably in 2010, beating expectations. Medical professionals, however, worry that these trends will be reversed if more isn’t done to stem the “twin epidemics of diabetes and obesity in young people.” So, yeah, maybe now isn’t the best time to conclude from the GHSA study that the safest thing you can do is sit on your couch all afternoon, stewing in your own filth and drinking ranch dressing straight from the bottle. But if you hate Michelle Obama, by all means, indulge!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/20/slight-uptick-in-pedestri_n_811636.html

  27. avatar
    Black Lion January 23, 2011 at 9:42 am #

    And more proof that the so calle “right” is attempting to scaremonger regarding Obama….Look at the latest intro of an e-mail that was sent…Of course the payoff is using Obama to solicit donations….You have to love it….Somewhere Joey Farah of WND is jealous…

    Like it or not, YOU are now being ruled more by a dictator than a duly-elected President.

    That’s why I’m asking you to please read every word of this email to understand the tremendous dangers we face due to this emboldened Chief Executive.

    Barack Hussein Obama will CONTINUE to do whatever is necessary to move his radical agenda forward. With the help of Executive Orders, like a dictator, Mr. Obama will rule over the legislative branch of government.

    Thank you for your concern for this, YOUR exceptional country,

    Alan Gottlieb
    Chairman, AmeriPAC
    http://www.Ameripac.org

    My Fellow American,

    Politically, the “gloves are off.” Barack Hussein Obama will now GO AROUND Members of Congress and the American people via EXECUTIVE ORDERS and “SECRETARIAL ORDERS”… because that is now the only way he will be able to push his radical agenda forward. Mr. Obama will EVADE Congress simply because he no longer CONTROLS the House of Representatives.

    He will use whatever means are available to him to seize the control to “legislate” away from Congress. In short, he literally wants to RULE you!

    Whatever means at his disposal through Executive Orders and Secretarial Orders (who ever heard of a Secretarial Order?) to implement what Congress won’t entertain legislatively. Executive Orders are pretty much veto-proof unless Congress overrules the White House edicts. And, since it takes a majority in both Houses of Congress to rescind an Executive or Secretarial Order, the odds of that happening in the Harry Reid Senate are slim to none.
    ……………

    Will you help us today to overcome a fiat dictator who is running out of time and still has a pocketful of socialist quid pro quos to enact?

    Will you please help AmeriPAC in this all-important, all-out campaign stop “one man rule,” and restore the greatness and worldwide respect that America once had?

    Please fax and donate today!

  28. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 23, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Black Lion: Kids, before you exercise, remember to get yourself stretched out at least as far as the above stretches the meanings of words like “told” and “conceded.”

    Wouldn’t this require years of Yoga to achieve?

  29. avatar
    G January 23, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    Black Lion: That’s right! While an intelligent read of everyone else’s reporting on the slight uptick in pedestrian deaths might lead you to conclude that more pedestrians are distracted by their iPods and smart-phones, or that pedestrians are growing more aggressive, The Daily Caller’s Amanda Carey is pretty sure that this is all being caused by that time Michelle Obama urged children, “Let’s Move!” as though she meant, “Let’s move right in front of some moving cars!”

    Wow…just wow….

    That is truly a sickly warped and pathetic display of ODS!

  30. avatar
    G January 23, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    Black Lion: Politically, the “gloves are off.” Barack Hussein Obama will now GO AROUND Members of Congress and the American people via EXECUTIVE ORDERS and “SECRETARIAL ORDERS”… because that is now the only way he will be able to push his radical agenda forward. Mr. Obama will EVADE Congress simply because he no longer CONTROLS the House of Representatives.

    Wow…this ODS attempt by the right is just…LAME.

    So, their whole bogeyman is to raise the specter of maybe, sometime in the future, he might issue some “Executive Orders”?

    WEAK.

    I’m sure they were all trembling in their boots when prior presidents did the same. If I recall, GWB issued quite a lot of them.

    These folks truly have nothing to go on, when they have to resort to something this lame as their campaign fundraiser idea…

  31. avatar
    Black Lion January 24, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    WND Complains Again That Gibbs Didn’t Answer Question That Wasn’t Asked
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Les Kinsolving must have quite the sense of entitlement. Not only did he and WorldNetDaily take their ball and go home rather than be given a number of seats at last year’s White House correspondents dinner they deemed insufficient, he seems to believe he has a right to be called on during White House press briefings.

    For at least the fourth time in recent months, WND has published an article complaining that White House press secretary Robert Gibbs didn’t answer a question Kinsolving didn’t ask. The article drips with entitlement, making sure to describe Kinsolving as “the second-most senior member of the White House press corps.”

    And true to form, Kinsolving’s unasked question was designed only to insult rather than enlighten: “Do you have any idea just when the president will announce who will be your successor; and will he or she receive more than what the president reportedly described as your ‘relatively modest pay’ of $172,000 a year?” Kinsolving is merely regurgitating a right-wing talking point scoffing at how President Obama had described Gibbs’ salary as “relatively modest” — which flies in the face of conservatives’ earlier assertions that the $250,000 income at which Obama originally intended to eliminate the Bush tax cuts was not “wealthy.”

    As we’ve pointed out before, Kinsolving’s reliance on talking points over intellect demonstrates that, seniority aside, he has not earned the entitlement he and WND so insistently claim.

  32. avatar
    Black Lion January 24, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    WND gets more ridiculous…

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=253649

    Old media now asking where is birth certificate
    WND report on guv’s interview grabbing attention of skeptics

    An interview with newly elected Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie that addressed Barack Obama’s presidential eligibility has prompted two opposing interpretations by legacy media – one insisting the governor has resolved the issue and the other concluding he effectively has admitted he can’t find the long-form birth certificate that would help put the controversy to rest.

    The New York Daily News apparently found the interview published Tuesday by the Honolulu Star-Advertiser reason to declare final victory over “conspiracy theorists,” but ABC News featured a story on its website pointing out Abercrombie has not delivered the promised proof.

    After WND’s report of the interview Wednesday – emphasizing Abercrombie tacitly has admitted an investigation he first mentioned in December has failed to produce a birth certificate – the New York Daily News declared in its headline, “Record of President Obama’s birth in 1961 is ‘in the archives’: Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie.”

    The Daily News lead paragraph stated: “Officials in Hawaii have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in their state, according to its new governor.”

    But the New York paper acknowledged that Abercrombie has not yet presented the proof to the public, stating “he again promised he would do ‘what I can do’ to publicly verify that records show Obama was born in Hawaii and is a citizen of the United States, making him eligible to be President.”

    The ABC News report, meanwhile, noted, “Despite his assurance to end the controversy, the governor has yet to present the document.”

    ABC led its story with, “Officials in Hawaii say they have located President Obama’s birth certificate indicating that he was born in the state, but have yet to produce the document at the heart of a long-simmering conspiracy theory.”

    Other reports noted, however, that Abercrombie referred only to having found an unspecified notation of the birth, not a long-form birth certificate.

    The wire service United Press International ran a story largely based on the ABC News account that stated, “Hawaii’s governor says President Obama’s birth certificate is ‘written down’ in state archives, but conspiracy theorists say they have yet to see it.”

    WND has reported that according to Hawaii law at the time, a notation made in the archives and newspaper announcements in Honolulu’s two biggest newspapers could have been triggered simply by grandparents Stanley and Madelyn Dunham appearing in-person to register Obama as a Hawaiian birth, even if he was born elsewhere.

    WND also has reported that Tim Adams, a former senior elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu in 2008 has maintained that there is no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate on file with the Hawaii Department of Health and that neither of Honolulu’s hospitals, Queens Medical Center or Kapiolani Medical Center, have any record that Obama was born in their facility.

    WND has asked Abercrombie’s spokeswoman in Honolulu, Donalyn Dela Cruz, for an interview with the governor, but she has not responded.

    On the eve of the 2008 presidential election, the then-director of Hawaii’s Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement that she had “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”

    In a separate statement, Fukino said, “I and Dr. Alvin Onaka have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”

    But as WND reported, neither statement specified what the “record” or “certificate” says or answered questions raised over the issue. Also, the Hawaii Department of Health has refused to authenticate the short-form Certification of Live Birth posted on the Internet initially by Snopes.com and FactCheck.org.

    ‘Can’t produce the vital document’

    Across the Atlantic, the Daily Mail of London adopted the storyline reported first by WND and followed by ABC News.

    The London paper’s headline said: “Hawaii governor claims record of Obama’s birth ‘exists in archives’ but can’t produce the vital document.”

    “Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there,” the paper reported.

    The Daily Mail pointed out that while Abercrombie stated evidence of Obama’s birth “actually exists in the archives, written down,” it nevertheless “became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.”

    In the Star-Advertiser interview, the London paper said, Abercrombie “suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.”

    Back in Hawaii, a columnist writing in an award-winning, independent online news and opinion journal founded by veteran Hawaii reporters asserted Abercrombie “has utterly failed to prove Obama was born in Hawaii.”

    Robert Paul Reyes, in the Hawaii Reporter, said Hawaii officials “need to track down only one document: The original Obama birth certificate with the name of the hospital and the doctor, his or her signature.”

    “How difficult can it be for the governor of Hawaii to track down one document? He can dispatch hundreds of state employees to search for Obama’s birth certificate,” the columnist said.

    Reyes argued that “to state that ‘officials have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in Hawaii’ falls woefully short of proving that Obama is a citizen of the United States.”

    He concluded: “Show us the money! Show us the birth certificate!”

    An NBC television affiliate in Tyler, Texas, east of Dallas, featured WND’s report in a regular opinion segment in which its news anchor interacts with a local talk-radio host.

    KETK-TV news anchor Bob Brackeen said in the segment Thursday that “there seems to be a glitch or two about what the governor was saying,” adding Abercrombie gave “a pretty vague response” to a question about the birth certificate.

    KTBB talk-radio host Garth Maier agreed, saying Abercrombie’s explanation that a record of Obama’s birth is “written down in the archives somewhere” sounds “pretty vague about actual evidence.”

  33. avatar
    Black Lion January 24, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    Dr Kate shows us her legal reasoning…

    Obama Fails Under the 20th Amendment

    “The Twentieth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part:

    Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

    Barack Hussein Obama never qualified for the Presidency under the Twentieth Amendment to the Constitution and must immediately step down. Because the failure to qualify was known to Barack and Michelle Obama, Biden, the Democratic National Committee, former Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Governor Abercrombie and the State of Hawaii at a minimum, the entire process of certification of the 2008 vote of the Electoral College on January 8, 2009, was fraudulent and is thus retroactively null and void. It matters not that the process was completed’ if the underlying information used to complete the process was known to be fraudulent, and further, that there was a conspiracy to hide this information from the public.

    No Obama Executive Order, military order, appointment at any level of government, signed legislation, treaty negotiations, foreign agreements, or military, foreign or domestic actions can be presumed legal. Obama’s words are meaningless and do not represent the views of the United States. Moreover, active espionage is underway the longer Obama remains occupying the White House and learning the intricacies of national defense and security.

    Speaker Boehner and Representative Issa, there is no need for hearings or investigations. It is within your authority and is your solemn responsibility to act in a Constitutional manner to rectify an egregious error:

    and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

    Obama has no authority to even give a State of the Union’ address and must stand down.

    STOP THEM COLD.

    ARREST THE CRIMINALS.

    AND FREE TERRY LAKIN IMMEDIATELY

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/obama-fails-under-the-20th-amendment/

    And in the comments, the “Sarah Palin Battle Hymm” gets some pub…

    Quantum Leap
    January 21, 2011 at 2:06 am
    That’s heavy. Same shat, different day. It’ll all come out in the wash.
    Now for some cheer

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhMepzqJvIw&feature=player_embedded

    heather
    January 21, 2011 at 9:52 am
    Awesome QL–thanks! I love my country and every single American Patriot that stands tall and proud for her!

    Dr Kate–awesome and prefectly written as usual by you! We love you and will stand with you. We the people will overcome and we will have our country and constitution back the way it was written and meant to be.

    Barry and company will not survive and they will go down, it is just a matter of time now. Arrocommie, I feel has put himself between and rock and a hard place and opened the can of worms!

    Now, it is he who will have to close it up! Just think, dem against dem — soon he will have to call barry out……

    Quantum Leap
    January 21, 2011 at 1:37 pm
    I love it too Heather. I keep playing it over and over. It makes me smile. The guy can sing. It looks like they missed a verse. See the opened bible on the table?

    And the usual ignorance…

    toto
    January 21, 2011 at 8:04 pm
    There are 2 types of Citizens

    1. Naturalized (by oath or at birth) i.e. all US Code 1401/14th amendment statutory US Citizens

    2. Natural Born Citizens

    Anyone who is not born of 2 US citizen parents on US soil, can at best ever be a naturalized US Citizen, ineligible to be president.

    Do not conflate “citizen” with “natural born citizen” as they are distinct.

  34. avatar
    Black Lion January 24, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    It seems like there has been a battle bettween losing attorney Apuzzo and the delusional “Jedi Pauly”….I am not an attorney but it seems to me that Pauly makes even less sense than usual…

    From his article in the Post and Fail….

    FIVE JURISDICTIONAL HURDLES

    by Jedi Pauly

    Article III of the U.S. Constitution authorizes Congress to establish federal courts.
    (Jan. 21, 2011) — I thought I might take this opportunity to explain to The Post & Email News readers why I agree with the dismissal of all of the court cases against Obama that have been dismissed so far. In so doing I will show you the level of competency among the attorneys who have filed cases regarding Obama’s eligibility to date. I will make you smarter than most attorneys who, due to their TITLE, are very overrated in people’s minds. Don’t get me wrong; I admire these attorneys for their Patriotism (assuming of course that is what is actually motivating them), but you must have both your head and your heart in the right place in order to solve any of the problems with our country by peaceful lawful means (exercising your right to petition your government for a redress of grievances).

    I was taught in a law course that I once took, and every attorney I have ever talked to agrees that this is what they were taught in law school, and this is what all of the U.S. Supreme court cases support, that in order for a court to have jurisdiction to even hear your case, you must meet 5, that’s FIVE and only 5 jurisdictional hurdles. If you are missing even one of the five then the court must dismiss the case by their own rules which is what they are bound by. Here are the five jurisdictional areas that I have taken the liberty to break down and summarize according to my understanding, that one must overcome in order to have a case recognized by the courts. For reference one may examine these links: http://www.answers.com/topic/justiciability, http://freedom-school.com/jurisdictional-failings.pdf, or simply read through the Federal Rules of Procedure.

    You MUST have all FIVE of these:

    1.The Court must have TERRITORIAL jurisdiction over all of the parties listed in a suit.
    2.The Court must have PERSONAL jurisdiction over all of the parties listed in a suit.
    3.The court must have SUBJECT MATTER jurisdiction over the issues being adjudicated. And such matters must be raised by the plaintiffs in their petition.
    4.There must be stated a specific non-general INJURY and an injuring party.
    5.The court must be able to provide a REMEDY that is within their powers to provide.
    That is it. There are no other jurisdictional issues or areas. This is the sum total of all world-wide legal systems as concerns “standing.” They are all the same.

    If you are missing any one of the above five, then the court is legally bound to dismiss the case. Now let us apply these five simple legal principles that have been well-recognized for thousands of years in every legal jurisdiction ever invented by man, to the cases that have been filed so far regarding Obama and his legitimacy and you will see that none of these cases so far has ever even met one of these five hurdles, let alone all five. Examine:

    1) The courts have no Territorial jurisdiction over the Office of President or over the ten square miles of Washington D.C.

    2) The courts have no Personal jurisdiction over a sitting President. They cannot force him to respond unless he is sued for something that he did prior to becoming President that is not related to the official duties of the Office of President (this was decided in the famous Supreme Court case of Clinton v. Lewinsky).

    3) None of the plaintiffs who have brought any of these suits have even raised the proper Subject Matter jurisdiction for the court. None of them have ever claimed the subject matter of Natural Law jurisdiction and the loss of natural sovereign political rights that are inherited from a sovereign citizen father and guaranteed to “natural born Citizen” as declared in Article II. Every petition so far has asked the court to take note of the subject matter of Positive Law political rights by claiming Obama was born elsewhere than Hawaii, or that Obama was not born with Both Parents and soil jurisdiction all unified at birth. These are not Natural Law arguments of inherited natural political rights of sovereignty. Their claims only raise questions of the Positive Law jurisdiction, and statutory authority, and “legal rights,” not Natural Rights.

    Every attorney so far has claimed that Obama is not a “natural born citizen” which is only a legal right. None of them has properly raised the issue that Obama is not a “natural born Citizen” which is a Natural Right that is inherited according to Natural Laws, and distinguished that from “natural born citizen” which is a legal right that is not inherited. Just read their petitions and the judges’ summations and judgments attached to the orders that dismiss these cases. The judges all make it clear that the petitioners bring their claims as statutory privileged “citizens of the United States” not as sovereign “Citizens of the United States.” The petitioners claim that Obama is not a statutory privileged “citizen of the United States” or a statutorily defined “natural born citizen”, which is ridiculous because he is a statutorily defined “natural born citizen” due to either his mother (regardless of what the statutes say about her age, because the executive branch can waive statutory requirements and grant citizenship to whomever they please) or by Obama’s publicly-stated claim to Hawaiian birth. But he is not a “natural born Citizen” according to the Laws of Nature due to the inheritance from a citizen father of a natural political right of sovereignty which is what Article II is requiring by political context, which creates the office of President to be a sovereign office filled by a sovereign representative of the People who are themselves also sovereigns.

    If you do not raise the correct Subject Matter jurisdictional issues and make a valid claim, then the courts are not bound to take the subject matter jurisdiction that you fail to raise into consideration. The rules of procedure bind the judges to consider rights that are not raised to be voluntarily waived and this is what both the rules of procedures and the Supreme court has determined. It is a result of the immunity that Judges have under the Positive Law jurisdiction of the courts. So, the one area of the five needed where the court might have had jurisdiction was never even raised properly by the petitioners, so the court has failed to have any subject matter jurisdiction to be recognized as a result of failure of the petitioners to raise the proper jurisdictional subject matter of Natural Rights. So we have failed the third test of jurisdictional standing. Moving on…

    4) Due to 3) above, the petitioners failed to make a claim that is both a specific and non-general Injury (that is what the judges have said), and they fail to identify for the court a party that has injured them. Obama cannot injure you directly even if he is illegitimate. It is only those who enforce his decrees that can possibly injure you. So for example, Kerchner v Obama and Barnett v Obama fail to declare an injuring party. Obama cannot possibly be an injuring party. So we have failed test 4.

    5) The Remedies sought so far have been in the form of seeking an advisory opinion on Article II “natural born Citizen,” which has been asked for by attorneys who don’t seem to even understand the Constitution and don’t seem to have any clue what a “natural born Citizen” is or means, and also don’t realize that the court is not even bound to give advisory opinions on its meaning, so there is no remedy that the court can provide there. You are supposed to already know the law when you get to the court. The court is just supposed to recognize what the law is that you show it, and rule according to what the law is, not what they suppose or the petitioners suppose it to be. The other remedy sought has been the removal of Obama which the court cannot provide, either, because of 1), and 2) above.

    As you can see, these attorneys cannot even get one of the five jurisdictional hurdles of standing figured out, let alone all five of them, and thus craft a petition that passes entry level. Isn’t this rather pathetic? So, the next time you want to direct any vitriol towards the government, the courts, the legal system, or the judges over the handling of Obama cases, perhaps you will direct your emotions towards those that are most deserving of rebuke which is those attorneys who have proven their worthlessness regarding their capability of crafting a proper case. Perhaps the $20,000 sanction against one attorney for filing a frivolous case is understandable?

    Perhaps you will now understand why I have no problem with our government and law and why I admire it so much. Perhaps you will gain an even better appreciation as to who the authorities in these matters are (the ordinary people with common sense and knowledge of Natural Rights and Legal Rights) who have superior understanding of the jurisdictional issues and authorities and can prove their case.

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/21/how-to-gain-standing-regarding-obama/

    Mrs. Rondeau replies: I did not get the impression that Mr. Pauly was implying that Obama should walk free. The position of The Post & Email is that if he is not a natural born Citizen, as millions strongly suspect and evidence indicates, then he should be removed from office and pay for his crime of fraud against the American people. If he proves to be a natural born Citizen but lied about his parentage in his birth story, that is fraud also and he should meet the same fate, as should everyone who aided and abetted him to enter the White House.

  35. avatar
    Black Lion January 24, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    And this is Mario’s response to the Jedi’s attempt at constitutional law…Which is equally as humorous….

    Mario Apuzzo, Esq. says:
    Friday, January 21, 2011 at 9:11 PM
    To Mr. “Jedi Pauli,”

    I will address your points briefly. I will not go into all the legal details of the Kerchner case because I do not think it is necessary to show that you are wrong in what you write. You continue to attack me, my work, and the Kerchner case for some unknown reason. The last time you attacked me, you said you thought I was Dr. Conspiracy. But now you are back at it in your grand pseudo scientific style.

    You state:

    “You MUST have all FIVE of these:
    The Court must have TERRITORIAL jurisdiction over all of the parties listed in a suit.
    The Court must have PERSONAL jurisdiction over all of the parties listed in a suit.
    The court must have SUBJECT MATTER jurisdiction over the issues being adjudicated. And such matters must be raised by the plaintiffs in their petition.
    There must be stated a specific non-general INJURY and an injuring party.
    The court must be able to provide a REMEDY that is within their powers to provide.
    That is it. There are no other jurisdictional issues or areas. This is the sum total of all world-wide legal systems as concerns “standing.” They are all the same.”

    I will now address you points:

    Territorial jurisdiction: This was not an issue in the Kerchner case. The defendants did not raise it as a defense and correctly so. The court also found no problem here.
    Obama, Congress, Cheney, and Pelosi can all be sued in the Third Circuit where all the Kerchner plaintiffs live. The Rules of Civil Procedure designate where one can sue the government and its agents and I followed those rules.

    Personal jurisdiction: This was not an issue in the Kerchner case. The court acquires personal jurisdiction over the defendants when they are properly served in accordance with due process. I properly served all the defendants pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. The defendants did not raise it as a defense and correctly so. The court also found no problem here.

    Subject matter jurisdiction: This is where standing came in. The Third Circuit Court of Appeals found no Article III standing. The court said that the Kerchner plaintiffs did not suffer an injury in fact. I will discuss this point in the next heading.

    Non-general injury and an injuring party: As I have stated above, this is part of standing and so under your scheme belongs as a part of subject matter jurisdiction and not as a separate category. As we all know, the courts found that plaintiffs did not suffer an injury in fact. Hence, it found no standing. I argued that the plaintiffs did suffer an injury in fact. The court did not agree with us. The court said that the Kerchner plaintiffs did not suffer an injury in fact because they like all other Americans would be injured if Obama is not eligible to be President. It said that if all Americans are injured, then the court has no jurisdiction and the case belongs with Congress and the voting booth. Of course we know that Congress said that only the courts could resolve the eligibility issue. I argued that if my clients were injured, it did not matter how many other people were also injured. I also argued that in a Constitutional Republic we cannot resolve questions of constitutional interpretation and meaning in the voting booth. If the court found that the plaintiffs did not suffer an injury in fact, of course it will also find that there was no “injuring party.” Hence, it is superfluous to argue about an “injuring party” when injury in fact is already a requirement.

    Remedy: This is also part of standing and so also belongs as a part of subject matter jurisdiction and not as a separate category. The Kerchner court never reached the issue of remedy, for it found no injury in fact. Finding no injury in fact, it is not necessary for the court to analyze remedy. In any event, I adequately presented the requested remedy which was injunction, declaratory relief, mandamus relief, and quo warranto relief, all proper remedies in such a case. I showed how Obama was not adequately vetted by anyone during the election process, including the media, the political institutions, the Electoral College, and Congress. I argued that Congress violated the Twentieth Amendment by failing to assure my clients through adequate investigation and hearings that Obama was eligible for the offices of President and Commander in Chief. I argued that Obama and Congress violated my clients’ unalienable Fifth Amendment rights to life, liberty, safety, security, tranquility, and property and their First and Ninth Amendment rights for allowing a person to occupy the Office of President and Commander in Chief who never proved he was eligible for those offices, never conclusively proved he was born in the United States, and that in any event, cannot be eligible because he is not an Article II “natural born Citizen” because his father was not a U.S. citizen when Obama was born. I argued that Congress violated my clients’ equal protection rights under the Fifth Amendment for investigating the “natural born Citizen” status of John McCain but not that of Barack Obama. As part of the declaratory action, I asked that the court declare what an Article II “natural born Citizen” is, declare that Obama does not meet that definition, and provide the definition and its findings to Congress so Congress could take appropriate action against Obama. As part of the mandamus relief, I asked that the court order Obama to produce his contemporaneous 1961 long-form birth certificate and that Congress take appropriate action against Obama based on the court’s findings of fact and conclusions of law. The defendants never argued that the courts could not provide the remedy that the Kerchner plaintiffs requested and the courts never made any such finding. The District Court dismissed the Kerchner case on political question and standing grounds (both Article III and prudential standing). The Third Circuit dismissed it on Article III standing grounds. No court ever reached the underlying merits of the Kerchner case. No court ever even discussed plaintiffs’ argument regarding violation of their unalienable Fifth Amendment rights to life, liberty, safety, security, tranquility, and property when it analyzed whether plaintiffs had standing.

    In short, you really have it all wrong. You attempt to have your general unfounded comments cover all the eligibility attorneys and all their cases. Your argument has no basis in law or fact. You fail to address the particulars of any one case and especially the Kerchner case. You really should reconsider coming out with such articles which really put into question the credibility of the eligibility issue, the writers of such articles, and that of those who publish such articles. I hope that you will refrain from such writings in the future.

    Mario Apuzzo, Esq.
    January 21, 2011

    Leo Patrick Haffey says:
    Friday, January 21, 2011 at 8:07 PM
    I hasten to note that in January of 2009, I advised some of the most prominent Eligibility Attorneys that they should file their cases directly with SCOTUS invoking the Original Jurisdiction Clause of Article III, Section 2 of the United States Constitution.

    It is noteworthy that it has been over two years since I first began to write about the Citizens Grand Jury Process and Original Jurisdiction in the Supreme Court of cases against Barack Hussein Obama and, to date, BHO’s lawyers have never been able to refute my Constitutional Theories.

    http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2010/07/taking-aka-obama-directly-before-scotus.html

  36. avatar
    Black Lion January 24, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    And the Jedi further clarifies his “article”….

    Jedi Pauly says:
    Saturday, January 22, 2011 at 3:09 PM
    Certainly;

    Thank you for your questions and clear formulations.

    Territorial Jurisdiction Question

    Here is my understanding. The State courts have territorial jurisdiction over State territory. The Federal Courts have no territorial jurisdiction over any State territory except where the State has granted territorial jurisdiction. They have total jurisdiction over federally owned territories and possessions, neither of which include Washington D.C.

    Congress has exclusive territorial jurisdiction over Washington D.C. They have their own municipal government and municipal courts that are superior even to the Supreme Court, which has no territorial jurisdiction over any of Washington D.C. That is my understanding, but it does not at all imply that Obama is above the law. It is just that the Supreme Court has no territorial jurisdiction over Washington D.C. so they cannot issue an arrest warrant for the President, for example. The D.C. municipal courts could, however. They could even arrest the Supreme Court Justices, or a member of Congress, or the President!

    Next question regarding if Obama is above the law.

    No. However he is not answerable to the Supreme Court except in very limited circumstances. He must answer to Congress. Both Congress and the People can hold Obama to be under the law but each must do it within their own authority. For example:

    Congress can just have a trial and remove Obama if they would chose to exercise their authority to remove a sitting President.

    The People are not empowered directly to remove Obama since that power is reserved to Congress alone but the People can remove the power and authority of the office of President by asserting their sovereign political rights through the courts for an injunctive relief to prevent the loss of sovereign political rights caused by any government agent (besides Obama) who tries to apply any statute signed by Obama, or any executive order or rule whose authority comes from Obama. For example, you could seek an injunction to prevent the Health care bill that was signed from being implemented because Obama does not represent you, since you are a “natural born Citizen” who inherited your sovereign political right from a citizen father as in Article II, and Obama is only a “natural born citizen” which means one who only got his political rights as a privilege of soil and not as a natural sovereign inherited birthright, so he has no authority to make bills into laws that you are bound to obey without your permission. If the government agent insists and tries to force you, then they cause you an unlawful injury and they can be sued personally for exceeding their authority and acting under the color of law. In this way the People can neutralize the power and authority of the office of President and reassert their sovereign political authority and right to be governed by a representative President who was also born inheriting a sovereign political right due to being born to a citizen father. This is the identified legal recourse to standing that I have discovered to be the correct lawful way to deal with an illegitimate President.

    Restating then:

    1) Congress can remove him.

    2) The People can Lawfully REFUSE to obey anything signed or ordered by Obama by asserting your sovereign political status that was inherited due to being born to a sovereign citizen father. Any government agent that tries to force you to obey against your will commits a criminal or civil wrong against you and they are not immune from being held accountable in court for both damages and injunctive relief (restraining orders). I would send them letters explaining this and just put them on notice and then you have proof of their intent to disobey the law and willfully injure you should they not obey the law or refuse to respond.

    3) By 1) an 2) above the President is not above the law.

    I hope this helps to clear things up.

  37. avatar
    Bovril January 24, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    Ahhhhhh Jedi Pauly…(doesn’t the handle just fill you with a warm and tingly feeling of trust)…. is a Sovereign Citizener.

    A seperate group of racist feckwits who obsess on gold fringes on flags, how “Admiralty Law” supercedes all other types and how….”any day” now the whole rotten no gold backed currency and Ebil Minions will be gone…..any day now.

    they alos hold to the whole 14th Amedment citizen meme as well as a sub group feeling this whole women having voting rights and stuff is illegal as well

    They are a step up from Illuminati botherers but only just.

  38. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 24, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    Bovril: Ahhhhhh Jedi Pauly…(doesn’t the handle just fill you with a warm and tingly feeling of trust)…. is a Sovereign Citizener.A seperate group of racist feckwits who obsess on gold fringes on flags, how “Admiralty Law” supercedes all other types and how….”any day” now the whole rotten no gold backed currency and Ebil Minions will be gone…..any day now.they alos hold to the whole 14th Amedment citizen meme as well as a sub group feeling this whole women having voting rights and stuff is illegal as wellThey are a step up from Illuminati botherers but only just.

    Bovril “you don’t need to see my jurisdoctorate to see I know what I’m talking about” *waives hand*

  39. avatar
    Bovril January 24, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    >;-)

    Sovereign Citizens also have a nasty habit of shooting people, for example….

    Scott Roeder who walked into church and shot Dr Tiller

    Terry Nichols of the Oklahoma City bombing

    Bruce and Joshua Turnidge and their botched robbery/bombing of an Oregon bank killing a police officer

    Richard Poplawski (Sovvy and the Jews run the worlder), killed 3 police, injured 2 plus a bystander, Pittsburgh

    James Wenneker von Brunn, shot and killed a guard at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting in Washington, D.C. Previously tried to kidnap and take hostage members of the Federal Reserve Board

    Jerry Ralph Kane Jr. and son, both dead along with 2 police officers in West Memphis, Ark

    Brody James Whitaker, shot at 2 police officers in Sumter County, Fla, at his arraignment yelled….”I am a sovereign……I am not an American citizen.”

    Oh and as if by magic, Jared Loughner seems to have had all the talking points, grammatical magic wording and other Sovvy beliefs as well….

  40. avatar
    Black Lion January 24, 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    Guys, Jedi Pauly is insane. He is one of those guys that read a law book and now thinks he is some sort of constutional law expert….What a moron…And the other winners you always come across….Cody Robert Judy, who thinks he is the Private AG of the US….Or BZ, who thinks she knows more about the law than actual lawyers…Walt Fitzpatrick, who thinks he is just smarter than anyone else…All of these fools are what the birther movement is about…And then they wonder why no one takes them seriously….

  41. avatar
    Black Lion January 24, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    It looks like Rubio is attempting to get the so called “Tea party teatard” stink off himself…

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/24/rubio-has-tea-party-concerns/

    Washington (CNN) – When the Senate Tea Party Caucus convenes for the first time Thursday, one of the movement’s biggest stars will be noticeably absent.

    Alex Burgos, spokesman for Republican Florida Sen. Marco Rubio confirmed the event is not on the senator’s schedule, but said he has not made a decision regarding caucus membership.

    “Senator Rubio is proud of his relationship with the tea party movement and shares its commitment to tackling debt, defending the free enterprise system and restoring our limited government tradition,” Burgos said in an e-mail to CNN. “Ultimately, he hopes Floridians will judge him on his voting record and his commitment to delivering on the promises he made through the campaign.”

  42. avatar
    The Magic M January 25, 2011 at 7:52 am #

    > He is one of those guys that read a law book and now thinks he is some sort of constutional law expert

    Something he shares with many laypeople who think reading a book is the same or better than studying the matter for several years with the best teachers you can find.

    It’s actually a common pattern among people (predominantly engineers) who have studied one subject and now think their “studied mind” can easily adapt to absorbing other, completely different fields of expertise with the same or even better proficiency.
    Typically their reasoning is “I studied a natural science and not some word-weaseling like lawyers, so my mind is trained much better for any subject matter”.

    [Reality check: I’ve got a degree in maths and computer science and now quite a bit of basic civil law in my country, but I wouldn’t go to court without a lawyer and would never put my understanding above that of the majority of experts, though I may occasionally disagree with single experts.]

    That’s why so many people I’ve encountered who suffer from querulatory disorder (coupled with a belief that the entire judicial system is one big conspiracy) have an engineering degree.
    Of course, the Internet adds the bottom of the brain pool, those people who believe and follow the delusional self-proclaimed “experts”. Voil, nées les birthers!

  43. avatar
    charo January 25, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    Continued from open thread, which has become more unbalanced than the reputation of some birthers…

    Amazing what a google search turns up. I noticed on the Evans radio spot that he pronounced Abercrombie AMBERcrombie and seemed to pronounce the name a little differently a couple of times. This led me to believe that he wasn’t such a good friend but rather an acquaintance. I was trying to find information about the KQ Morning Show and came across this:

    Mike Evans Live From Hollywood: Celebrity gossip reporter Mike Evans calls in (typically from his home in Palm Springs, CA) and reports the latest celebrity gossip as well as reviews new and upcoming movies. Evans has gained popularity with his “Aloha Friday” song which he sings when reporting on Fridays. Evans is often made fun of by the crew for pronouncing celebrity names and other words wrong,

    http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Tom_Barnard

  44. avatar
    charo January 25, 2011 at 9:18 am #

    I meant that the thread has become unstable because of number of comments- my last comment here didn’t post so there could be a repeat.

  45. avatar
    Scientist January 25, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    On Evans’ blog from the Inaguration, he says the following, “I spent yesterday, out and about, first picking up my credential then meeting with my congressman and senator, the lines just to get through security took in some cases, two hours!” In other words he got the regular constiituent treatment, not the VIP special friends treatment. He mentions nothing about Abercrombie being a buddy of his.

    http://evansradio.com/blog/?PHPSESSID=87a7d1b6e7a0965bc03f84d6a153a531&s=abercrombie

    Also the blog was updated at 12:07 AM today (not sure what time zone) and there is NO mention of the Abercrombie story at all, just stuff about American Idol and the Oscars. Wouldn’t a reporter who had such a hot story have it prominently on their blog?

  46. avatar
    Black Lion January 25, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    Scientist, it is like the so called Tim Adams affidavit….The so called smoking guns the birthers come up with are meaningless and legally inadmissible….No court or proceeding has requested such a document….And Evans’ “interview” is filled with nothing but hearsay….Once he was confirming the lie that WND first perpetuated, you could tell that he was making stuff up. If he was a real journalist and knew Abercrombie as well as he claims, he would have the governor on in an interview and personally ask him about the President’s birth information.It is amazing. Dr. Fukino releases an official statement on the behalf of the state of HI that confirms that “Barack Obama was BORN in HI”, and her statement is ridiculed and parsed to imply she said something other than born…While Evans allegedly repeats something that he claims was told to him by the governor, and it is to be taken as the gospel. Amazing.

    The same with Adams’ joke of a affidavit….He says…

    “We called the two hospitals in Honolulu: Queens and Kapi’olani,” Adams stressed. “Neither of them have any records that Barack Obama was born there.”

    We all know that could not be true because the hospital would have told him that they cannot comment on patient records due to HIPAA regulations…He also claims….

    “Moreover, Adams claims, the Hawaii government was engaged in a cover-up designed to tell the American public through the Obama-supporting mainstream media that Obama was born in Hawaii, even though no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Obama could be found on record in the Hawaii Department of Health.

    In the affidavit Adams swears, “During the course of my employment, I came to understand that for political reasons, various officials in the government of Hawaii, including then-Governor Linda Lingle and various officials of the Hawaii Department of Health, including Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the director of the Hawaii Department of Health, were making representations that Senator Obama was born in Hawaii, even though no government official in Hawaii could find a long-form birth certificate for Senator Obama that had been issued by a Hawaii hospital at the time of his birth.”

    Adams further swears his supervisors told him to quit asking about Obama’s birth records.

    “During the course of my employment,” Adams states in the affidavit, “I was told by senior officers in the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division to stop inquiring about Senator Obama’s Hawaii birth records, even though it was common knowledge among my fellow employees that no Hawaii long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Senator Obama.”

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=254401#ixzz1C0csSiyA

    So the obvious questions are why hasn’t any of these fellow employees ever supported his claim? If it was such common knowledge, why is he the only guy with such knowledge? So many inconsistencies in Adams’ story only the birthers, who are suffering from Obama derangement syndrome, would believe such a pack of lies with no supporting evidence or proof.

  47. avatar
    Black Lion January 25, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    WND is all about smears of the President, so it is no wonder why they are the only outlet pushing this so called affidavit by Adams or why they lied regarding what governor Abercrombie acutally said….

    WND Sides With Ivory Coast Leader, Against Rest of World
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    WorldNetDaily has taken sides on the election controversy in the Ivory Coast, delaring in a Jan. 22 article that “Laurent Gbagbo, a Christian, legitimately was re-elected president” and that the country “is facing the forced Islamist takeover of its government” from “outside influences” who “seek to force the installment of Alassane Ouattara, a Muslim who, like Gbagbo, claims the presidency following a recent contested election.” WND continues:
    The forced selection of Ouattara by outside influences runs contrary to constitutionally established procedures in the Ivory Coast regarding such determinations, critics contend.
    In this case, the issue centers on whether the United States and U.N. will select the next Ivory Coast president or allow the decision by the country’s constitutional council to prevail.
    The constitutional council had determined that there was sufficient evidence of vote-rigging in the northern part of the country controlled by Islamists to make the final determination that Gbagbo, the incumbent president, had won the hotly contested election last November.
    The constitutional council under the Ivory Coast constitution has the last word on election results.
    But the U.S., U.N. and African Union are pushing for the recognition of Ouattara and are demanding that Gbagbo step down and “respect democracy.”
    As we’ve detailed over at Media Matters, the United Nations and the European Union have certified that the vote in which Gbagbo lost to rival Ouattara was free and fair, despite some isolated incidents of violence, and National Security Council spokesman Mike Hammer stated that the provisional results were in favor of Ouattara, adding, “Credible, accredited electoral observers have characterized the balloting as free and fair, and no party should be allowed to obstruct further the electoral process.” The constitutional council WND relies on as having certified the results of the election is, in fact, controlled by Gbagbo loyalists.
    In short, there is near-unanimous international opinion that Gbagbo is causing the crisis in the Ivory Coast by manipulating the election results and refusing to leave office, and U.S. actions on the Ivory Coast are in line with that international opinion.
    WND also repeats the discredited claim that President Obama “barnstormed on behalf of” Kenyan leader Raila Odinga during a 2007 visit to the country and that Obama was “appearing with Odinga at campaign stops.” In fact, as PolitiFact.com reported, Obama “remained neutral in Kenyan politics, and did not support Odinga during his trip,” and it was Odinga who was seeking to align himself with Obama, not the other way around.
    WND portrayed the Kenya situation as “the second Muslim-Christian battle in Africa recently,” but the opposing candidate in the Kenyan presidential controversy, Mwai Kibaki — who professes to be a Chtristian — has two wives, something generally frowned upon in Christianity.
    This is the second time this month that WND has sided with Gbagbo and pushed discredited lies about Obama and Odinga.

  48. avatar
    Scientist January 25, 2011 at 10:26 am #

    Black Lion: Here’s what they’re afraid of:

    Obama Viewed Favorably by 53% of Investors as Economy Improves
    http://mobile.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2065100&sid=aHZHEaQRZgTo
    And why not, given that the market is up about 90% since he was inaugurated?

    CNN poll-Highest optimism since Nov 2007 (before the financial crisis)
    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/01/24/rel2b.pdf

    Rasmussen polls (leans strongly Republican) job approval 52%
    No modern incumbent has lost with approval over 50%

    So expect more such garbage to pop out of the woodwork and expect Obama and sensible people to ignore it.

  49. avatar
    Black Lion January 25, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    Scientist: Black Lion: Here’s what they’re afraid of:Obama Viewed Favorably by 53% of Investors as Economy Improveshttp://mobile.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2065100&sid=aHZHEaQRZgToAnd why not, given that the market is up about 90% since he was inaugurated?CNN poll-Highest optimism since Nov 2007 (before the financial crisis)http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/01/24/rel2b.pdfRasmussen polls (leans strongly Republican) job approval 52%No modern incumbent has lost with approval over 50%So expect more such garbage to pop out of the woodwork and expect Obama and sensible people to ignore it.

    Scientist, you are right. After all of the smearing and vilifying, the American people as of today see the President in a positive light. The people that hate Obama are scared that he might win another term and are going to attempt to prevent that at any cost….So magically you see “stories” based on unsubstantiated rumors like Adams and Evans pop up in an attempt to keep whatever scrutiny on the President….

  50. avatar
    Black Lion January 25, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    Great article from OFGS….

    Birthers Must Like Being Misled

    “I often talk about how Birthers lie. It’s a constant thing, and they really have no choice, since their entire premise–that President Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen of the United States–is a lie, in service to the underlying cause of overthrowing a legitimately elected government for the emotional reason they don’t like Barack Obama.

    Birthers have to fling themselves from pillar to post, running around like chickens without heads, finding new lies as the old ones catch up to them, but periodically reviving the old ones, in case anybody has, in the meanwhile, forgotten or didn’t know they were lies. It must be quite dizzying.

    They get the lies from lying Birther lawyers like Orly Taitz or lying Birther blogs like The White Hat Report or lying Birther “news” sites like the Post & Email or World Net Daily or lying Birther politicians like Allen West.

    The rank and file Birther repeats the lies everywhere he or she goes, and sometimes comes up with other lies to feed into the lying Birther media to broadcast out for other lying Birthers to pick up and spread everywhere they go. Dizzying.

    On January 20, we saw a classic example of a Birther mouthpiece, Andrea Shea King, the Radio Patriot, editing out several minutes of discussion that didn’t fit the lying Birther line from the archived show.

    The caller, Foggy from The Fogbow, politely asked LTC Terrence Lakin’s brother Greg Lakin, if Terry Lakin had attempted to get a copy of a state-issued long form birth certificate for his Hawaiian-born daughter. Greg Lakin said his brother had tried to order his niece’s long form birth certificate by mail. He couldn’t get it, but it would have been “compelling evidence,” Greg Lakin said. He also said, “I understand we’ve all gone to electronic records now.”

    Even Andrea Shea King thought the question–if LTC Lakin’s couldn’t get his daughter’s state-issued long form birth certificate, then how could Obama get his?–a “good question.”

    But she must have had second thoughts on the consequences of that question to the lying Birther movement.

    Here is a clip of the original call broadcast on the show and a transcript showing snipped portions.

    Here is the snipped, archived version on BlogTalkRadio.

    Now this isn’t sloppy reporting or a misunderstood exchange. This editing was done with one intention, to mislead the Birther movement and any other listening public. I’ll never understand why Birthers enjoy being manipulated, but obviously they welcome it, or they wouldn’t put up with it.

    What is so difficult about airing the true fact that Hawaii issues birth certifications in the form the state has adopted, just as other states have adopted their own forms, and does not issue long form birth certificates; that what they issue is a COLB, a Certification of Live Birth, just like the one that Obama published?

    It’s one lie Birthers could stop telling, if they wanted to, but it’s a lie the Birther media wants told. What other purpose could there be for deliberately hiding this simple information from the listeners of the Andrea Shea King Show?

    That Birther Terrence Lakin was willing to sacrifice his family’s financial future and his professional reputation, when he already knew the long form birth certificate he demanded of the President was not to be had, is perplexing, but the whole sorry episode, like all of it, was based on lies.

    Remember when Lakin’s Birther attorney from the American Patriot Foundation said, “President Obama could end this tonight”? Well, it was a lie.

    Why did Lakin believe the lying American Patriot Foundation? Because he wanted to, just like all the rest of the Birfers. Lakin’s crime was not believing Birther lies, though. He was convicted for not following orders in the military. Believing the Birther lies made Lakin a schmuck who has to pay the piper for his own stupidity. Those who led LTC Terrence Lakin and his family to destruction with Birther lies are as responsible as he is.

    http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=15945

  51. avatar
    G January 25, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    charo: I meant that the thread has become unstable because of number of comments- my last comment here didn’t post so there could be a repeat.

    Smart idea by both you & BL to try to move the conversation to here. I agree that other thread is too large and increasingly unstable.

  52. avatar
    charo January 25, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    G: Oh – I understand the WV coal-mining background too.

    Thanks for your comment from the other thread.. My dad actually moved to PA (Clariton Works is in the Pittsburgh area). But the steel industry/coal mining industry was a way of life in all of those regions you mentioned.

  53. avatar
    charo January 25, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    Rickey,

    I hope you see this here. In the interview Evans did with Abercrombie, he spoke of the cab experience. They both talked about it here at 3:50 (it is Part 2 of the link I provided on the other thread).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVLmEG_8b7A&feature=channel

  54. avatar
    gorefan January 25, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    charo: They both talked about it here at 3:50

    Charo – it sounds like Governor Abercrombie used the cab as part of his campaign for the state legislature. Driving it around town to publishize his campaign. It also sounds like Mr. Evans doesn’t truely know the Governor in a personal way. just remembers him from the taxi cab campaign. Evans, “that’s the first time I remember you” not that’s the first time i met you.

  55. avatar
    The Magic M January 25, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    > It’s one lie Birthers could stop telling, if they wanted to

    But why would they want to? Even if they know, deep down inside, that not all of their outlandish allegations can be correct at once, they have adopted the typical extreme stubborn stance of “if I admit to one thing I said being incorrect, people will start doubting everything else I said”.
    That’s why often people at work try to hide their errors from their superiors, why politicians can hardly ever admit they were wrong etc.
    (I recommend the book “Mistakes were made – but not by me”, excellent read!)
    And since birthers as manic conspiracy nutters are trained to jump at even the slightest perceived weakness (inconsistencies, changes of wording etc.) to exploit it to their advantage, they naturally fear the same thing happening to them.

    In fact, this is one of the few things where you can classify birthers according to their level of madness – some (like the P&E) still allow a moderate amount of disagreement (such as which NBC theory is correct or if really all birther icons are perfect saints), others (like Dr Kate) consider any disagreement an attack on their precious house of cards.

  56. avatar
    charo January 25, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    gorefan:
    Charo – it sounds like Governor Abercrombie used the cab as part of his campaign for the state legislature.Driving it around town to publishize his campaign.It also sounds like Mr. Evans doesn’t truely know the Governor in a personal way. just remembers him from the taxi cab campaign.Evans, “that’s the first time I remember you” not that’s the first time i met you.

    See other thread. I hate responding over there because it is too big, but no one is listening.

  57. avatar
    Black Lion January 25, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    “The Radio Patriot” is a flat-out liar

    There’s a program on Blog Talk Radio called, “The Andrea Shea King Show.” Its host, who goes by the nickname of “Radio Patriot,” has on her web page a kicky little picture showing her playing “dress-up like a real-life journalist:” she’s wearing a hat with a “Radiopatriot PRESS” card stuck in the hat band. Very old school; we don’t wear those kinds of things anymore. (Although it would be pretty cool. But I digress.)

    Anyway, as you can imagine, “The Radio Patriot” is a Birther site. And on Jan. 21, 2011, Ms. King had on as guests Greg Lakin, the brother of (soon to be ex) Army LTC. Terry Lakin, and Marco Ciavolino, trustee of a fund raising effort for Terry Lakin. Terry Lakin is the (soon to be former) Army doctor who ‘s serving three months in a military prison after he was convicted of a charge of missing a movement, and plead guilty to a charge of failing to report to his superior officer. Lakin, also a Birther, claimed that he couldn’t deploy to Afghanistan until he knew for sure that President Obama was Constitutionally qualified to serve as Commander in Chief. Of course, he did that after he took his taxpayer-funded leave prior to his deployment.

    As it was learned during his court martial, another soldier had to deploy in his place, on short training, and wreaking havoc with his personal life. But stuff like that doesn’t matter to Birthers, so long as they get what they want.

    One of the “proofs” Lakin wanted was a copy of Obama’s original long-form birth certificate from Hawaii, even though Hawaiian officials have said they are not issued anymore, and created the Certification of Live Birth in their place. Obama’s non-compliance with their demand is their evidence that he does not have one from Hawaii, and was really born somewhere outside the U.S. (Of course, even if he did show it, that wouldn’t satisfy Birthers, but that’s another entry.)

    Anyway, this King woman has a call-in segment to her program, and one of her callers was a fellow who identified himself as “Spackle,” but who also goes by the handle Foggy. He’s a denizen of a Birther-truth forum called The Fogbow (h/t to him for giving me the heads-up on this). In his call, Foggy noted that Terry Lakin’s daughter was born in Hawaii — which Lakin’s brother confirmed — and asked if the almost-former LTC had tried to get her long-form birth certificate.

    Greg Lakin allowed to how his brother had tried to do so, but was unsuccessful. Greg Lakin even said he tried to get one in person, but the office was closed. (It was a Friday, and state offices in Hawaii were closed every Friday to save money.)

    Here’s a transcription of the conversation, as it happened, and here’s a link to audio:

    Foggy: Hello, can you hear me?

    ASK: Yes, we hear you loud and clear.

    Foggy: OK. Just checking. I’m “Spackle” in the chat room. And I have a question for Greg, which is, doesn’t Terry have a daughter that was born in Hawaii?

    Greg: He does. He was at Schofield Barracks for many years, at the military base there as a physician. His daughter was born in Hawaii …

    Foggy: So I’m wondering why … it probably would have made his appeal to the public more powerful if he had gone ahead and gotten a long form birth certificate for his daughter. If he could order one today, y’know, like everybody wants Obama to do, and pay ten or fifteen bucks to order the long form birth certificate, and then show it to people and say, “I got my own daughter’s long form birth certificate, how come Obama can’t get his?” Did he ever try that?

    Greg: You know, he did, and I actually … he tried to do it through the mail, and I actually tried to do it personally when I was over there, because I’ve spent time in Hawaii too, and the Office of Vital Statistics was closed that Friday.

    But I will tell you that he’s … as a physician over there, he’s seen numerous birth certificates, and that Certificate [sic] of Live Birth is something he’d never seen before, nor is it a birth certificate.

    And then he personally signed off on … he’s been the delivery physician, not in Hawaii but at Fort Bragg …

    Foggy: Wait a minute. Are you saying the Certification of Live Birth is not a birth certificate?

    Greg: I’m saying it’s not the original birth certificate, or a copy of the original birth certificate.

    Foggy: No, it’s not. It’s not. I agree with that but I mean … in any event, so he never actually did pursue it and try to get a copy of his own daughter’s long form birth certificate.

    Greg: You know, I honestly can’t answer that. I know she has one. I know she has one, just like all birth certificates, you know, all birth certificates that I’ve signed have location and doctor’s name and other people … they have information on them. And so I know that his daughter has one. But yeah, no I don’t know if he’s personally got one or could do that, in any type of … Would it be compelling evidence? I think you’re probably right.

    Foggy: I just posted a link in the chat room. And if you go to that link, the Hawaii government state website says you can’t get a long form birth certificate any more1 … even if … and that’s a link to a program they do for Native Hawaiians, y’know, ethnic Hawaiians, that if you’re more than 50% ethnic Hawaiian, they try to help you with all kinds of programs, it’s called the Hawaiian Homelands Program.

    And they say they prefer the long form birth certificate if you have one, but they explain on the website that they don’t give them out any more, and that if you don’t have your long form birth certificate right now, if you apply for a birth certificate, you’re gonna get a COLB, a Certification of Live Birth, just like the one that Obama published, and that’s why I was wondering, the state of Hawaii … that even for people they’re trying to help because they’re ethnic Hawaiian, if they can’t get a long form birth certificate, and if Terry couldn’t get a long form birth certificate for his own daughter, then how is President Obama supposed to get a long form birth certificate for himself?

    Greg: Right.

    ASK: Well, that’s a good question. Yeah.

    Greg: Well, I think that’s something that’s fairly recent within the last few years, because it’s always been … before … y’know I understand we’ve all gone to electronic records now, but …

    Foggy: Right. In the state of Washington, the only birth certificate that you get is a little card that fits in your wallet.

    Greg: Um hm.

    Foggy: And I live in North Carolina, and in North Carolina all you can get is a short form birth certificate too. So I just don’t understand how President Obama could get … unless they put him above the law that says that you can’t get a long form birth certificate any more. I don’t see how he could possibly get a long form birth certificate.

    Marco: Andrea, this is Marco, let me just address that, because we’re getting in the last few minutes, there’s a few more things to cover.

    ASK: Yep. Yep.

    Marco: This is one of the issues, and I appreciate your comments in fact I think it’s a very clever idea, but what we’re missing is that the birth certificate is just part of the equation. As Greg just indicated, it’s not even the physical sheet of paper, though everyone’s expected to have one in this country …

    Now something strange happened to that conversation from the time it occurred to the time Andrea Shea King posted a recording of it on her program’s web site: it shrank by a few minutes!

    And oddly enough, the part that’s missing is the salient point of Foggy’s comment. Here’s a transcript of what you’ll hear if you listen to the archived program (audio):

    Foggy: I have a question for Greg, which is, doesn’t Terry have a daughter that was born in Hawaii?

    Greg: He does. He was at Schofield Barracks for many years, at the military base there as a physician. His daughter was born in Hawaii …

    Foggy: So I’m wondering … “I got my own daughter’s long form birth certificate, how come Obama can’t get his?” Did he ever try that?

    Greg: You know, he did, and I actually … he tried to do it through the mail, and I actually tried to do it personally when I was over there, because I’ve spent time in Hawaii too, and the Office of Vital Statistics was closed that Friday.
    But I will tell you that he’s … as a physician over there, he’s seen numerous birth certificates, and that Certificate [sic] of Live Birth is something he’d never seen before, nor is it a birth certificate.

    And then he personally signed off on … he’s been the delivery physician, not in Hawaii but at Fort Bragg … I know she has one, just like all birth certificates, you know, all birth certificates that I’ve signed have location and doctor’s name and other people … they have information on them.

    Marco: Andrea, this is Marco, let me just address that, because we’re getting in the last few minutes, there’s a few more things to cover.

    ASK: Yep. Yep.

    Marco: This is one of the issues, and I appreciate your comments in fact I think it’s a very clever idea, but what we’re missing is that the birth certificate is just part of the equation. As Greg just indicated, it’s not even the physical sheet of paper, though everyone’s expected to have one in this country …

    So, not only did she edit out Greg Lakin’s admission that his brother couldn’t even get a long-form birth certificate for his own daughter, she completely changed the context of the comment! She took what was really a question challenging Lakin’s case, and made it into a statement supporting Lakin! (Don’t believe me? Here’s a link to the archived program. The relevant part starts at about minute 46. You can fast-forward by pushing the “right” arrow on your keyboard.)

    As a side note, it’s important to point out that Laking went ahead with this ridiculous cause even though he probably knew, from his own experience, that Obama could not get a long-form birth certificate. I’ve no doubt that Lakin is a smart man, you don’t get to be a surgeon and an officer in the US Army (usually) otherwise. But I’ve said it many times before, some of the smartest people I know have zero common sense.

    I’ve seen some willfully dishonest stuff in my life, but this ranks at the top of the list. Andrea Shea King, you ought to change the type on your phony press card to “Birther Propagandist.” You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but I know you’re not. How nice it must be to travel through life, free of the troublesome burden of a conscience.

    Keep the faith.

    http://www.examiner.com/birther-movement-in-national/the-radio-patriot-is-a-flat-out-liar

  58. avatar
    Scientist January 25, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    charo: See other thread. I hate responding over there because it is too big, but no one is listening.

    Quite honestly, it doesn’t matter. We all agree Evans and Abercrombie were acquainted (though it seems quite a strectch to say they were bosom buddies) . However, we don’t even know for sure the.voice is Evans’. The whole tape could be a scam. It’s very curious that there is nothing on his web site or blog about this even now.

    But let’s suppose it is Evans on the tape. The supposed disclosure Abercrombie made would be in violation of state and possibly federal law that forbids disclosure of personal data, including whether or not such data exist. Why would he break the law and harm someone we know for sure was his friend and the leader of his party? Why would he make such an illegal disclosure to a Hollywood reporter? Until there is a reasonable answer for the why, the credibility of this story is minimal.

  59. avatar
    charo January 25, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Scientist:
    Quite honestly, it doesn’t matter.We all agree Evans and Abercrombie were acquainted (though it seems quite a strectch to say they were bosom buddies) .However, we don’t even know for sure the.voice is Evans’.The whole tape could be a scam.It’s very curious that there is nothing on his web site or blog about this even now.But let’s suppose it is Evans on the tape.The supposed disclosure Abercrombie made would be in violation of state and possibly federal law that forbids disclosure of personal data, including whether or not such data exist.Why would he break the law and harm someone we know for sure was his friend and the leader of his party?Why would he make such an illegal disclosure to a Hollywood reporter?Until there is a reasonable answer for the why, the credibility of this story is minimal.

    Evans does a weekly radio spot. Prior to and just afterward, he did his usual spiel. I don’t believe they were the best of friends either. Maybe the Governor is just one of those people who opens up to anyone he likes. Governor Abercrombrie was also ignorant of privacy laws. We simply don’t know for sure exactly what happened. The radio spot occurred early morning so any conversation with either the Governor or his office would have occurred the day before, at the latest. It was the evening after the radio spot that the Governor’s office released a statement that he was dropping the inquiry.

    Why Evans made the statement is anyone’s guess. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence to show that he was on some kind of crusade. His acquaintance, now Governor, is the one who first made the headlines. IMO, Evans interest was piqued.

  60. avatar
    charo January 25, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    charo: Prior to and just afterward,

    I meant prior to that statement and just after it- I heard the whole clip that someone posted somewhere.

  61. avatar
    gorefan January 25, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    charo: See other thread

    From the other thread:

    “It was in 1986, according to Abercrombrie, that he drove the cab. When Evans mentioned the cab, it did sound like he drove it for a living”

    The governor says he got his PhD in 1974 and then ran for state legislature. Evans then mentions the cab. The Governor then says he didn’t have much ,money and they wouldn’t let him put up billboards (campaign billboards?). He goes on to say the the cab was boxey and he could put his picture up on the side of the cab.

    “He was elected to the Hawaii House of Representatives in 1974 and was re-elected in 1976. He was elected to the state Senate in 1978 and was re-elected in 1982. He was elected to the Honolulu City Council in 1988”

    [skip]

    “Neil Abercrombie won a bid for the U.S. House in 1990, running on the slogan “Abercrombie Back to Congress.” He played up his three-month tenure as an interim House member in late 1986, when he was elected to fill the unexpired term of Democratic Rep. Cecil Heftel who resigned to run for governor. ”

    “Still sporting the beard and long hair of his days as an anti-war activist in the 1960s and 1970s, Abercrombie drew attention in the U.S. House. He was a familiar sight on the streets of Honolulu, driving his yellow classic Checker cab with his name and likeness on it.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/politics/election/2002nov/bios/hhi1dem.dtl

    You may be right that the cab augmented his pay as form the state legislature. But it is also clear he used for his campaigns.

  62. avatar
    Scientist January 25, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    charo: Governor Abercrombrie was also ignorant of privacy laws

    He asked for an opinion from the Attorney General, so he knew there were potential issues. Plus, Hawaii has been dealing with this for 2 years now, so no one in state government there is unaware. And then, a few hours BEFORE he gets the opinion, he spills his guts to a reporter? If so, then the Governor is deranged and I wouldn’t believe anything he says.

    The whole thing makes no sense, so I give it no credibility until there is corroboration. Since the media has covered Abercrombie’s statements, I expect we wiill hear more.

  63. avatar
    charo January 25, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    gorefan: You may be right that the cab augmented his pay as form the state legislature. But it is also clear he used for his campaigns.

    I must have confused you. I don’t know if he used the cab or not to make a living. He did say he had no money. But those familiar with him would have known about his campaign cab. It would be easy to assume he used it to make a living by the introductory words of Evans. He wasn’t trying to make that the thrust of what he wanted to say, IMO.

  64. avatar
    charo January 25, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    Scientist: The whole thing makes no sense, so I give it no credibility until there is corroboration. Since the media has covered Abercrombie’s statements, I expect we wiill hear more.

    I hope so. Now that I have listened to the two Up Close and Personal interviews of the Governor several times, I actually like the Governor. I am sure I don’t agree with his politics, but I found him to be quite likeable on a personal level with a fun sense of humor. The interviews seem to show two people comfortable with each other. At this point, I can’t assign any motive to either.

  65. avatar
    Daniel January 25, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    Would someone please explain to me exactly what this whole cab thing has to do with Obama’s eligibility?

  66. avatar
    Scientist January 25, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    Daniel: Would someone please explain to me exactly what this whole cab thing has to do with Obama’s eligibility

    I once met someone who delivered in a cab. According to the birthers, her child can never be President. I think babies conceived in cabs are ineligible as well, but you’d have to check with Orly Taitz to be sure.

  67. avatar
    Sef January 25, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    charo: Governor Abercrombrie was also ignorant of privacy laws.

    As are most people. I remember a few years back there was a great hue and cry on the genealogy usenet lists about states closing access to birth records. So, the inability to see these records, unless you are an interested person, is relatively recent.

  68. avatar
    Rickey January 25, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    gorefan:
    You may be right that the cab augmented his pay as form the state legislature.But it is also clear he used for his campaigns.

    The Honolulu Star-Advertiser reported on December 6 that it was “a car decorated like a New York yellow taxicab.”

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/Inauguration_festivities_begin_for_Gov-elect_Abercrombie.html

    When he said that he “didn’t have much money” he probably was referring to his campaign not having much money for advertising. Hence, the use of the car as a billboard.

  69. avatar
    Sef January 25, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    Rickey: Hence, the use of the car as a billboard.

    A time-honored campaign tradition.

  70. avatar
    gorefan January 25, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    Rickey: When he said that he “didn’t have much money” he probably was referring to his campaign not having much money for advertising. Hence, the use of the car as a billboard.

    Thus the Governor’s statement that he could not put up billboards

    The sense I got from the interview and the several articles written about the “cab”, is that the people of Oahu associated the cab with Governor Abercrombie’s various political campaigns and from the fact that when he was in office he drove it around town. Which I suspect was a form of “meet and greet”.

    I also didn’t get a sense that these gentlemen were particularly close, there didn’t seem to be much comaraderie or reminisces. This was more like a newsman interviewing a politician that maybe he had interviewed before.

  71. avatar
    Rickey January 25, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    gorefan:
    I also didn’t get a sense that these gentlemen were particularly close, there didn’t seem to be much comaraderie or reminisces.This was more like a newsman interviewing a politician that maybe he had interviewed before.

    I did a name search on “Mike Evans” at the Honolulu Star-Advertiser website today. The only match I could find is a story about a preacher named Mike Evans who appeared at a seminar in Honolulu last August.

  72. avatar
    Majority Will January 25, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    With props to Patrick from Badfiction for the link to:

    The Encyclopedia of American Loons

    #132: Walter Fitzpatrick (and Carl Swensson and the AGJ)

    Some people seem to live their life happily in parallel universes, somewhat like the bad guys in Wrong Turn or Deliverance. Barely literate, they have their own little militia camps where they can thump their Bibles, arrange secret meetings in old Skeeter’s hayloft and complain about the lizard men, communists and chicken thieves.

    Walter Fitzpatrick III, a retired military officer, is just one of several of these nutballs who have written “presentments” against Barack Obama for citizen grand (show) juries (meetings in Skeeter’s hayloft), and now demands that the local sheriff takes action and go out and arrest the president. “AGJ” stands for “American Grand Jury” – that’s what they fancy themselves – and is one of several such nutball organizations.

    The rest: http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2011/01/132-walter-fitzpatrick-and-carl.html

    #126: Joseph Farah

    One of the real movers and shakers behind the moron movement, Farah was the founder and chief editor of WorldNetDaily, with regular columns from luminaries such as Pat Buchanan, Pat Boone, Chuck Norris, Tom Tancredo, Phyllis Schlafly, Alan Keyes, David Limbaugh, Jerome Corsi and others. He has also worked closely with Rush Limbaugh, writing parts of his books for him – and he has written his own books, such as Taking America Back and the Tea Party Manifesto. You get the idea.

    He is an avid creationist, sometimes seeming to want to top even Answers in Genesis for sheer ignorance and lunacy.

    The rest: http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2011/01/126-joseph-farah.html

    The index with links to RationalWiki as well:
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Encyclopedia_of_American_Loons

  73. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 25, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    Majority Will: With props to Patrick from Badfiction for the link to:The Encyclopedia of American Loons#132: Walter Fitzpatrick (and Carl Swensson and the AGJ)Some people seem to live their life happily in parallel universes, somewhat like the bad guys in Wrong Turn or Deliverance. Barely literate, they have their own little militia camps where they can thump their Bibles, arrange secret meetings in old Skeeter’s hayloft and complain about the lizard men, communists and chicken thieves.Walter Fitzpatrick III, a retired military officer, is just one of several of these nutballs who have written “presentments” against Barack Obama for citizen grand (show) juries (meetings in Skeeter’s hayloft), and now demands that the local sheriff takes action and go out and arrest the president. “AGJ” stands for “American Grand Jury” – that’s what they fancy themselves – and is one of several such nutball organizations.The rest: http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2011/01/132-walter-fitzpatrick-and-carl.html#126: Joseph FarahOne of the real movers and shakers behind the moron movement, Farah was the founder and chief editor of WorldNetDaily, with regular columns from luminaries such as Pat Buchanan, Pat Boone, Chuck Norris, Tom Tancredo, Phyllis Schlafly, Alan Keyes, David Limbaugh, Jerome Corsi and others. He has also worked closely with Rush Limbaugh, writing parts of his books for him – and he has written his own books, such as Taking America Back and the Tea Party Manifesto. You get the idea.He is an avid creationist, sometimes seeming to want to top even Answers in Genesis for sheer ignorance and lunacy.The rest: http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2011/01/126-joseph-farah.htmlThe index with links to RationalWiki as well:
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Encyclopedia_of_American_Loons

    What? No Ted Nugent?

  74. avatar
    Majority Will January 25, 2011 at 5:54 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    What? No Ted Nugent?

    Not on EoAL . . . yet, but here on RationalWiki:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fun:Ted_Nugent