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Hawaii clarified; Trump evades

CNN presented a masterful piece of birther TV journalism last night. They sent their own team of investigators to Hawaii to reportΒ  from birther ground zero. I haven’t seen the video yet, but I have read the transcript1.

Hawaii clarified

It seemed to me that from the first, the Hawaii Department of Health was unprepared for the onslaught of nit-savvy conspiracy theorists that parsed the Department’s every word, including reading volumes between the lines. They seemed to unsure of what their position was precisely. One of the questions that has sparked endless argument on this blog and elsewhere is whether Hawaii still issues certified copies of long form Certificates of Live Birth (a form used in the past to initiate a birth certificate in Hawaii). From the CNN story we learn three things:

  1. The Certification of Live Birth, as released by Barack Obama in 2008, is the only legal form of birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii. CNN found a man named Stig Waidelich who was born August 5, 1961, the day after Barack Obama, and gave him $7 to get his own birth certificate from the Department of Health. What he received is the same type of form as Obama released.
  2. CNN showed, with an example of a long-form birth certificate that there is no space on the form to record “Religion” dispelling the rumors that Obama’s certificate said “Muslim.”
  3. Those with a right to it, may request a copy of their long form Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii through a freedom of information request. However, what they receive is not a certified copy and not a recognized legal document.

CNN had an on-camera interview with former Director of the Hawaii Department of Health, Dr. Chiyome Fukino. She reiterated what she has said several times before: she personally has seen Obama’s birth certificate, and he was born in Hawaii.

Trump evades

Donald Trump, also interviewed (perhaps cross-examined is a more accurate term), was extremely evasive about his claims of investigators in Hawaii. Just watching the initial video where Trump first suggested that he had “people” looking into Obama’s origins, it was clear to me that he started making up the story to cover for a slip he made. Since then, he’s dug himself in deeper and deeper. Only CNN, who really did sent investigators to Hawaii, interviewing all the major players, found no one who was contacted by Trump’s “people.” When pressed repeatedly, Trump could not name one person his investigators talked to, nor was unable or unwilling to state a single thing they found out, even though he previously said that his investigators “couldn’t believe what they are finding.”

I ran across people in the business world who would tell a convenient lie to advance their business, and then try to cover it up. It usually worked. The ability to lie off the cuff and bluster one’s way through a bad spot may have served Trump well in his career, but it’s turning into a disaster when the press adds its scrutiny.

Following Trump’s interview segment, is was pointed out that Trump’s claim that Obama spent $2 million hiding his records is not based on fact, but rather by assigning all the post-election Obama campaign’s legal expenses to the three birther lawsuits that were dismissed. CNN commented that the McCain campaign had $1.3 million in post-election legal expenses.

Stay tuned

There’s more of CNN’s Hawaii investigation, including the rest of the uncut Donald Trump interview, tonight


1The transcript here has been shortened from last night’s version, including removal of the Trump interview. I’ll have to replace this when the official show transcript is published.

336 Responses to Hawaii clarified; Trump evades

  1. avatar
    richCares April 26, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    ” we haven’t seen hide nor hair of Trumps investigators”
    just you wait says the loyal paypal pushing birther
    there’s scammers and scammees, birthers are the later!

  2. avatar
    y_p_w April 26, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    The one thing I can’t figure out is the $7 figure. I thought it was $10 for the first and $4 for additional copies. Maybe ordering two copies averages to $7 each.

  3. avatar
    nemocapn April 26, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    y_p_w:
    The one thing I can’t figure out is the $7 figure.I thought it was $10 for the first and $4 for additional copies.Maybe ordering two copies averages to $7 each.

    I’d guess that the price is different when you order in person rather than through the mail. They don’t have to pay postage if you pick it up. In some states, though, they charge you more in person for same day service.

  4. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    Hi Doc – the transcript misspells Stig’s name. It is not spelled like it is pronounced. It is actually Waidelich. He is important for several reasons. First, he was born the day after the President (although there is some confusion as the CCN piece says he was born 13 hours after the President which would be approximately 8:00 am, but some suggest his COLB says pm). Nonetheless, he was born on the same day as the Nordyke twins, but his COLB clearly says “date filed” August 8, 1961. The same as the President, not the Nordykes. And he is listed in the same newspaper announcements as the President not the Nordykes. And his certification number is very high 151-1961-010920, which is not very close to the Nordyke’s or the President’s.

  5. avatar
    DCH April 26, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    LOl, it getiing worse. Poor birthers!
    Trump repeated every one of your Hawaii BC myths and CNN systematically debunked the entire thing.

    COLB
    Long Form
    Newspaper
    DoH
    Fukino on camera

    The core of your entire Hawaii argument was gutted.Its called getting your asses kick, better call the wham-bulance.

    No a single thing has held up.

    What say you birthers.

  6. avatar
    ASK Esq April 26, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    Now that undeniable facts have been presented, I fully expect the birthers to admit that they are wrong, and abandon their foolish crusade.

    Ha.

  7. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP April 26, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    I think that one of the more important thing the investigation did was put to rest the birther klan myth that the president’s relatives could have placed the ads in the newspapers about his birth. An official from at least one of the newspapers said that those statistics come directly from the Department of Health and that there is no way anyone’s family members could have placed the ads.

  8. avatar
    Sean April 26, 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    nemocapn: I’d guess that the price is different when you order in person rather than through the mail.They don’t have to pay postage if you pick it up.In some states, though, they charge you more in person for same day service.

    That’s pretty cheap. I think I spent $15 or $20 on mine.

  9. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 26, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    gorefan: Nonetheless, he was born on the same day as the Nordyke twins, but his COLB clearly says “date filed” August 8, 1961. The same as the President, not the Nordykes. And he is listed in the same newspaper announcements as the President not the Nordykes. And his certification number is very high 151-1961-010920, which is not very close to the Nordyke’s or the President’s.

    I think that this even more evidence that a batch of certificates were alphabetized by surname before numbering. We have three certificates from that time period and they are numbered in alphabetical order with close alphabetic letters giving close numbers and and distant ones alphabetically far apart numerically.

  10. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 4:14 pm #

    misha: Trump has wrecked Romney’s chances, and that’s all I care about.

    Thrifty: How has he done that?

    Everyone has gotten on the bandwagon, and are pandering to the lowest common denominator. Romney cannot say one word, so he has lost at least 1/3 of the GOP. It doesn’t get any better.

    Pawlenty, Palin, Huck, Trump, Bachmann [Turner Overdrive], Howdy Doody Jindal, Deal, Arizona GOP…

  11. avatar
    Judge Mental April 26, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    y_p_w: The one thing I can’t figure out is the $7 figure. I thought it was $10 for the first and $4 for additional copies. Maybe ordering two copies averages to $7 each.

    This reminds me of something I meant to mention before…..to be honest I’ve always wondered if perhaps Obama ordered two or perhaps several certified copies in 2007. Given the situation and the the upcoming election formalities it would not be entirely unexpected.

    At one stage it even crossed my mind that the images apparently with and without ‘folds’ aren’t necessarily the same pieces of paper, though of course it’s no big deal either way.

  12. avatar
    Loren April 26, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    I emailed the show earlier today to fill them in on Trump’s lie about “Obama’s family can’t agree on which hospital he was born at.”

    That’s the kind of ephemera that we’re fluent in, but Cooper may not even know what Trump’s referring to. Heck, Trump *himself* may not know what he’s referring to. He’s just repeating a talking point.

  13. avatar
    y_p_w April 26, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    nemocapn: I’d guess that the price is different when you order in person rather than through the mail.They don’t have to pay postage if you pick it up.In some states, though, they charge you more in person for same day service.

    Should be the same price.

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html

    “Fees for certified copies of birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates are identical:

    $10.00 for the first copy of each certificate, and
    $4.00 for each additional copy of the same certificate ordered at the same time.”

  14. avatar
    aarrgghh April 26, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    ASK Esq:
    Now that undeniable facts have been presented, I fully expect the birthers to admit that they are wrong, and abandon their foolish crusade.

    Ha.

    ha indeedy.

    “Trump must be right over the target because the flak they are shooting is really thick!”

  15. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    y_p_w: Should be the same price.
    “Fees for certified copies of birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates are identical:
    $10.00 for the first copy of each certificate

    I got it for him wholesale.

  16. avatar
    y_p_w April 26, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Judge Mental: This reminds me of something I meant to mention before…..to be honest I’ve always wondered if perhaps Obama ordered two or perhaps several certified copies in 2007. Given the situation and the the upcoming election formalities it would not be entirely unexpected.

    At one stage it even crossed my mind that the images apparently with and without folds’ aren’t necessarily the same pieces of paper, though of course it’s no big deal either way.

    If you check the high-res image that the Daily Kos posted, you can make out the creases. The upper crease (which crosses the State of Hawaii seal) is folded out and clearly makes a faint horizontal impression as well as messing up part of the seal, while the lower crease is folded in and makes less of an impression. They must have had put a phonebook or something on the scanner cover to make it as flat as possible.

  17. avatar
    Gary Miller April 26, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    Ya know, Doc, I used to like Trump before he started talking birther. Now I think he’s a buffoon and I won’t watch his shows nor patronize his businesses.

    I believe Trump will find, down the line, that he has turned off more folks than me, and this will absolutely be a detriment to his business. Is he so thick he can’t even realize this?

    Fascinating.

  18. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP April 26, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    Krauthammer: Trump is a “clown”

    “Trump is the Al Sharpton of the Republican party — provocateur and
    clown. Unserious. I think he’s going to harm the party if he runs for
    the same reason that Sharpton harmed the Democrats.

    In the
    debates, he’ll be up there…. like Sharpton, he’s going to monopolize
    the discussion, draw it away on issues that are irrelevant like Obama’s
    birth, and that can only hurt the party.”

    http://gop12.thehill.com/2011/04/krauthammer-trump-is-clown.html

  19. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: I think he’s going to harm the party if he runs for the same reason that Sharpton harmed the Democrats.

    The answer to my prayers.

  20. avatar
    The European April 26, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Gary Miller:
    Ya know, Doc, I used to like Trump before he started talking birther.Now I think he’s a buffoon and I won’t watch his shows nor patronize his businesses.

    I believe Trump will find, down the line, that he has turned off more folks than me, and this will absolutely be a detriment to his business.Is he so thick he can’t even realize this?

    Fascinating.

    Thick as a brick.

  21. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    Loren: I emailed the show earlier today to fill them in on Trump’s lie about “Obama’s family can’t agree on which hospital he was born at.”

    Watching the video, it is clear that Cooper is confused when Trump brings it up. So you are probably right.

    I e-mailed the show and told them about Tim Adams because Trump’s statement about somebody telling him that there is “no birth certificate” sounds like Adams.

  22. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP April 26, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    gorefan: Watching the video, it is clear that Cooper is confused when Trump brings it up.So you are probably right.

    I e-mailed the show and told them about Tim Adams because Trump’s statement about somebody telling him that there is “no birth certificate” sounds like Adams.

    That was my first impression too, gorefan. I think he or one of his “investigators” spoke to Adams

  23. avatar
    Foggy April 26, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    Doc, there are actually 7 videos that I’ve found, and put on a Special Report page:

    http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/cnn-hawaii-investigation/

    There will probably be even more coming when they do Part 2 of the report.

    If I’m missing any, please someone let me know!

    For the record, I predict that Trump now hires a team to investigate in Hawaii. He’s kind of cornered into that right now. If he doesn’t come up with some sort of investigation report of his own, he’s going to look awfully lame. Of course, if he DOES come up with some dishonest report, he’ll have to disclose the names of his investigators. That could be embarrassing in its own right.

  24. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    The European: Thick as a brick.

    Hey, don’t insult Jethro Tull.

  25. avatar
    Majority Will April 26, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    gorefan: I e-mailed the show and told them about Tim Adams because Trump’s statement about somebody telling him that there is “no birth certificate” sounds like Adams.

    Or it’s the latest birther meme about Abercrombie. The birther blowers have twisted his words into “there is no birth certificate”. Trump mentioned the current Governor a couple of times leading me to believe he was parroting the Whirled Nut Daily birther and other birther idiot blogs’ spin on Abercrombie.

  26. avatar
    Scientist April 26, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Doc: Certainly, I’ve dealt with exaggerators and liars in the business world. Rarely, if ever, have I dealt with ones dumb enough to tell lies as easily exposed as Trump’s stories about “investigators in Hawaii”. It staggers me not that he would make such a boast, but, having made it, that he wouldn’t send a few people there to do some perfunctory digging so that he could pass the statement off as a mere exaggeration rather than an outright falsehood. Even if he had sent them a few days affter` the statement, he could have gotten away with it. But to be 3 weeks later and still have no one on the ground is just absurd.

    Even if his platform beyond the birtherism were not a caricature (tell OPEC to charge less for oil), the fact that he is not just a liar but an incredibly dumb one disqualifies him to be a city councillor, let alone President.

    Oh and Jes Beard, I’m sorry, but saying you have investiigators on the ground in Hawaii when you don’t is not an error, but a flat-out lie. So Trump is a LIAR.

  27. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 5:26 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: I think he or one of his “investigators” spoke to Adams

    Didn’t WND sponsor Adams affidavit? Is Corsi the one doing Trumps investigations?

  28. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP April 26, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    gorefan: Didn’t WND sponsor Adams affidavit?Is Corsi the one doing Trumps investigations?

    Yes, they did sponsor the affidavit, and maybe Trump should read it because then he would know that all Adams has are hearsay claims that cannot be evaluated due to the fact that Adams never names any of his sources.

  29. avatar
    Majority Will April 26, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    gorefan: Didn’t WND sponsor Adams affidavit?Is Corsi the one doing Trumps investigations?

    Farah is the root of many things birther.

    He and his demonic cockroaches need to be exposed now.

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/ – a valiant effort but not nearly enough.

  30. avatar
    Reality Check April 26, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    gorefan: Didn’t WND sponsor Adams affidavit?Is Corsi the one doing Trumps investigations?

    WND had their attorney prepare it for Adams to sign before a notary. Adams had input into the content but this was it was clearly prepared at the behest of WND and at their expense. This was completely unethical journalism but it is the way they operate at Farah’s rag.

  31. avatar
    nemocapn April 26, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    y_p_w: Should be the same price.

    They gave Stig same day service even though the site says, “Certified copies are usually not issued on the day the application is made. Same-Day service may be provided upon presentation of written documentation establishing the need for urgency. Certified copies will normally be available for pick-up about 10 working days after the request is approved.”

    Maybe they haven’t updated the web site with the most recent pricing information.

  32. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: more evidence that a batch of certificates were alphabetized

    They probably would wait until the outer island sent in their certificates. Which was done at least weekly. IIRC there were about 17500 births in Hawaii in 1961. It averages out to about 340 per week. It becomes heavily dependant on the alphabetic distribution of names (approxiamtely 80 A-M, 260 N-Z). Unless they split the batch into two groups because two different clerks processed them.

  33. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 5:42 pm #

    Majority Will: Farah is the root of many things birther. He and his demonic cockroaches need to be exposed now.

    Farah is literally a fascist; he is a Phalangist. Remember the Sabra and Shatila massacre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

    Farah has blood on his hands.

  34. avatar
    Foggy April 26, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    Reality Check: WND had their attorney prepare it for Adams to sign before a notary. Adams had input into the content but this was it was clearly prepared at the behest of WND and at their expense.

    Adams thought it was prepared by an attorney, anyway. I tend to doubt that; hopefully any attorney (except Orly, of course) would know that putting so much outright hearsay in it would make it inadmissible in any court proceeding.

    Adams also went far beyond the scope of that affidavit when he appeared on your radio show, R.C. In the radio show, he repeatedly claimed that it was his office (the Honolulu elections office) that made inquiries of the Dept. of Health and the two hospitals, Kapi’olani and Queens, and was told by all three that there are no records of the president’s birth in Hawaii.

    You’d think if that were true, he might have mentioned it in the affidavit. But maybe he forgot to tell Corsi about it …

  35. avatar
    Sean April 26, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    Foggy:
    Doc, there are actually 7 videos that I’ve found, and put on a Special Report page:

    http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/cnn-hawaii-investigation/

    There will probably be even more coming when they do Part 2 of the report.

    If I’m missing any, please someone let me know!

    For the record, I predict that Trump now hires a team to investigate in Hawaii. He’s kind of cornered into that right now. If he doesn’t come up with some sort of investigation report of his own, he’s going to look awfully lame. Of course, if he DOES come up with some dishonest report, he’ll have to disclose the names of his investigators. That could be embarrassing in its own right.

    I don’t think he has to do that. He’ll just do what Andrew Breitbart does. When confronted, yell “Hey! look over there!”

  36. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 6:15 pm #

    Majority Will: Farah is the root of many things birther. He and his demonic cockroaches need to be exposed now.http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/ – a valiant effort but not nearly enough.

    Agreed. He is loathesome and rephrensible. He’s one of the main instigators, pushers, and perpetrators of this whole Birther con game. He’s defintely using it to fleece the gullible to fill his own pocket and push a vile propaganda based agenda of lies…but I suspect he’s also involved in funding and propping up the issue as well.

  37. avatar
    Expelliarmus April 26, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    nemocapn: They gave Stig same day service even though the site says, “Certified copies are usually not issued on the day the application is made

    Actually, we don’t know that it is same day service. It looks that way on the video, but it’s also very possible that he filled out an application a week or so before filming, and then CNN went in to do the filming after Stig was notified that the birth certificate was ready to pick up. (That might also explain the $7 thing — perhaps Stig went in on his own,, maybe he filled out an app requesting 2 copies, and then CNN paid for one)

  38. avatar
    nemocapn April 26, 2011 at 6:41 pm #

    Gary Tuchman told Eliot Spitzer, “Instead, though, what you typically do is you go to the health department office. You spend 7 bucks and within five minutes, you get a birth certificate that is actually more legal than the original one. I mean that seriously.”

    The five minutes certainly isn’t typical. I think Hawaii’s DOH is going to be mad at CNN for giving people inflated expectations of a turnaround time for a birth certificate.

  39. avatar
    jamese777 April 26, 2011 at 6:46 pm #

    Another conservative Republican Comes Out as Anti-birther

    DYERSVILLE, Iowa — Rick Santorum said Tuesday that he and President Barack Obama both have the same proof they were born in the United States, making clear that he won’t play into the widely discredited claims about Obama’s birthplace.
    “He has a certificate of birth, which is what, if you ask for the record of birth in Hawaii, that is what they give you,” Santorum told more than a dozen Dyersville Republicans when asked about the so-called birther issue at a lunchtime meeting here.
    “I’ve looked at my birth certificate,” said Santorum, the former Pennsylvania senator who was born Virginia. “I have a certificate of birth. I have the same thing.”
    While the question drew laughs from the small group of supporters who sipped coffee and tea as he answered, Santorum said there are bigger issues to focus on.
    “As you’ve heard me say, there’s plenty to not like about what the president’s doing to our country, both here at home and overseas as far as national security,” he said. “I think the best thing for us to do is to focus on those things that are important to our country.”
    The birther question came from Dyersville Mayor James Heavens, who is currently uncommitted to a candidate.
    Asked whether he was satisfied with Santorum’s response, Heavens said while Donald Trump has re-energized questions about Obama’s citizenship, other Republican hopefuls have sidestepped the issue. Michele Bachmann indicated last week the she considers the matter settled, and Mitt Romney has said matter-of-factly that Obama is a natural-born citizen. But polls continue to show large proportion of Republican voters believing otherwise.
    “I think the Republicans are trying to steer clear of that a little bit,” Heavens said. “Donald Trump has certainly brought that thing to the floor. Personally, I think there is a case to be made that he was not born here. If that was an objection that was easy to overcome, then why hasn’t he done it to everybody’s satisfaction? You could do that in 5 minutes if you wanted to.”

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53743.html#ixzz1KfitbpyA

  40. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    jamese777: Personally, I think there is a case to be made that he was not born here. If that was an objection that was easy to overcome, then why hasn’t he done it to everybody’s satisfaction? You could do that in 5 minutes if you wanted to.”

    Which is why Romney is finished. One word from him, and his father will be thrown in his face.

  41. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    misha: Which is why Romney is finished. One word from him, and his father will be thrown in his face.

    It’s a long way to the Iowa caucuses.

    For anyone who likes blood sports, I think you should hope that Trump decides to run – the other Republicans tearing this wounded birther whale to shreds would be a sight to see. Unfortunately, I’m guessing even if he was leaning towards running (which I highly doubt) that he will change his mind after the next couple of weeks…

  42. avatar
    y_p_w April 26, 2011 at 7:53 pm #

    Expelliarmus: Actually, we don’t know that it is same day service.It looks that way on the video, but it’s also very possible that he filled out an application a week or so before filming, and then CNN went in to do the filming after Stig was notified that the birth certificate was ready to pick up.(That might also explain the $7 thing — perhaps Stig went in on his own,, maybe he filled out an app requesting 2 copies, and then CNN paid for one)

    I would think they would normally just mail it. They don’t charge a mailing fee or ask for a self-addressed stamped envelope for mail-in requests.

    I think part of the reason they decided to go with this system is the convenience of same-day service. I’ve certainly gotten a California birth certificate same day. Five minutes is easily doable if everything is properly located in a computerized directory, and the BC was even a scanned “long form”.

  43. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    Slartibartfast: I think you should hope that Trump decides to run

    I am hoping Trump will declare. I believe he actually will.

    Romney is preparing:
    http://gawker.com/#!5791102/did-mitt-romney-steal-his-nurdle-from-aquafresh

  44. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    misha: I am hoping Trump will declare. I believe he actually will.

    I hope you’re right, but I believe that the pounding he’s about to receive at the hands of the media will change his mind.

  45. avatar
    Keith April 26, 2011 at 8:15 pm #

    misha: Hey, don’t insult Jethro Tull.

    Who is playing Aqualung in this album?

  46. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 8:17 pm #

    Keith: Who is playing Aqualung in this album?

    Is Orly ‘cross-eyed Mary’?

  47. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Is Orly cross-eyed Mary’?

    Zing.

  48. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    Keith: Who is playing Aqualung in this album?

    Ian Anderson and Jennie Anderson.

  49. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    Just watched the first part of AC 360 – the bad news for the birthers just doesn’t stop. I’m having problems containing my shadenfreude – this couldn’t have happened to a more deserving bunch.

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 26, 2011 at 10:49 pm #

    Foggy: Doc, there are actually 7 videos that I’ve found, and put on a Special Report page

    Thanks, Foggy. I’m stuck out of town with a crappy Internet connection that takes an hour to bring up one of the CNN videos, which one has to do to get the link.

  51. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Just watched the first part of AC 360 – the bad news for the birthers just doesn’t stop. I’m having problems containing my shadenfreude – this couldn’t have happened to a more deserving bunch.

    When you say the first part, do you mean last night’s episode, or the first part of tonight’s AC (which just aired at 10pm), which was actually part 2…

    I thought tonight (part 2) was a good continuation of yesterday’s report.

    They recapped yesterday’s findings, went into a lot more detail on their HI investigation and findings – adding further debunking to birther nonsense all along the way.

    They provided the 2nd portion of the unedited Trump interview and AC actually had a *slightly* better time trying to get a word in edgewise (although Trump just continued to mostly talk over him…so I don’t think Trump was really listening or even cared about listening).

    They indicated that there is more to the Trump interview – but it moves on to other topics, so will be aired in subsequent days.

    Then AC did an excellent segment of covering the issue at the White House, including both bringing it up at the White House briefing and also asking Administration officials about it behind the scenes.

    AC did a great job of answering the Concern Troll question we keep hearing about “why doesn’t he just provide the ‘long form’ and put an end to this by openly and intentionally playing Devil’s Advocate to posit Trump’s question to the reporter.

    The reporter confirmed that he brought up that VERY specific question with the Administration and repeatedly gave their consistent response – which turns out to be EXACTLY the conclusion that we, who’ve been looking and dealing with this issue over the past several years have also come to:

    Birtherism isn’t about facts or evidence. It is a visceral “gut-reaction” desire by certain people to not accept Obama’s presidency as “legitimate”. The evidence that has been provided has already been more than sufficient and overwhelming and therefore there is NO point pandering to additional requests for info – those that are still asking this will JUST MOVE THE GOAL POSTS and NOTHING WILL SATISFY THEM, so there is NO point in doing any more to appease the unappeasable.

    As they pointed out, Birtherism is a pretty good “litmus test” of where these folks “worldview” and “mindset” are stuck at.

    So yeah, another great journalistic coverage of the topic by AC on CNN and they really were able to cover a lot over the past two days for the two half-hour segments they allotted to this.

  52. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 10:59 pm #

    OH. MY. GOD.

    Does anyone else feel like Anderson Cooper tonight was a real live anti-birther OMG moment?

    That was one fine piece of journalism (I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out to be award-winning…).

  53. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP April 26, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    Birtherism isn’t about facts or evidence. It is a visceral “gut-reaction” desire by certain people to not accept Obama’s presidency as “legitimate”. The evidence that has been provided has already been more than sufficient and overwhelming and therefore there is NO point pandering to additional requests for info – those that are still asking this will JUST MOVE THE GOAL POSTS and NOTHING WILL SATISFY THEM, so there is NO point in doing any more to appease the unappeasable.

    That is a very important and profound statement that goes right to the heart of the matter. I nominate it for a Doctor Conspiracy quote of the day…or the week….whatever it is

  54. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    G: When you say the first part, do you mean last night’s episode, or the first part of tonight’s AC (which just aired at 10pm), which was actually part 2…

    I thought tonight (part 2) was a good continuation of yesterday’s report.

    They recapped yesterday’s findings, went into a lot more detail on their HI investigation and findings – adding further debunking to birther nonsense all along the way.

    They provided the 2nd portion of the unedited Trump interview and AC actually had a *slightly* better time trying to get a word in edgewise (although Trump just continued to mostly talk over him…so I don’t think Trump was really listening or even cared about listening).

    They indicated that there is more to the Trump interview – but it moves on to other topics, so will be aired in subsequent days.

    Then AC did an excellent segment of covering the issue at the White House, including both bringing it up at the White House briefing and also asking Administration officials about it behind the scenes.

    AC did a great job of answering the Concern Troll question we keep hearing about “why doesn’t he just provide the long form’ and put an end to this by openly and intentionally playing Devil’s Advocate to posit Trump’s question to the reporter.

    The reporter confirmed that he brought up that VERY specific question with the Administration and repeatedly gave their consistent response – which turns out to be EXACTLY the conclusion that we, who’ve been looking and dealing with this issue over the past several years have also come to:

    Birtherism isn’t about facts or evidence.It is a visceral “gut-reaction” desire by certain people to not accept Obama’s presidency as “legitimate”.The evidence that has been provided has already been more than sufficient and overwhelming and therefore there is NO point pandering to additional requests for info – those that are still asking this will JUST MOVE THE GOAL POSTS and NOTHING WILL SATISFY THEM, so there is NO point in doing any more to appease the unappeasable.

    As they pointed out, Birtherism is a pretty good “litmus test” of where these folks “worldview” and “mindset” are stuck at.

    So yeah, another great journalistic coverage of the topic by AC on CNN and they really were able to cover a lot over the past two days for the two half-hour segments they allotted to this.

    Yes. That was the marvelous piece of reporting that I was referring to (for all the reasons you listed). I wonder what the birthers have to say… πŸ˜‰

  55. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 26, 2011 at 11:07 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    OH.MY.GOD.

    Does anyone else feel like Anderson Cooper tonight was a real live anti-birther OMG moment?

    That was one fine piece of journalism (I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out to be award-winning…).

    hahaha a nurse just came forward in the interview saying that she was there when he was born. There goes another talking point.

  56. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 11:12 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): hahaha a nurse just came forward in the interview saying that she was there when he was born.There goes another talking point.

    I think you mean Stig’s mom – the one who remembered seeing him (with her son) in the nursery and noticing him because black people were unusual in Hawai’i at the time…

  57. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 11:13 pm #

    Slartibartfast: I think you mean Stig’s mom – the one who remembered seeing him (with her son) in the nursery and noticing him because black people were unusual in Hawai’i at the time…

    That is correct.

  58. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    Someone is clearly feeding Trump some high-quality birther crap – my money’s on Corsi or Farah – I’m starting to think that Trump is a dupe, not a con-man… I agree with the White House, as good as this will be for President Obama it would be much better for the country if the birthers went away…

  59. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 26, 2011 at 11:20 pm #

    Slartibartfast: I think you mean Stig’s mom – the one who remembered seeing him (with her son) in the nursery and noticing him because black people were unusual in Hawai’i at the time…

    Ahh you’re right was perusing the transcript. But there is also Ann Dunham’s professor in Hawaii who remembers meeting Barack as a baby

  60. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Ahh you’re right was perusing the transcript.But there is also Ann Dunham’s professor in Hawaii who remembers meeting Barack as a baby

    And I thought the interview with Governor Abercrombie showed him to be exactly what some of us have been saying – an old guy who’s pissed about his dead friends being disrespected…

    I wonder how long it will take the family members of the birthers (those they haven’t managed to alienate yet, anyway) to talk them down off of the ledge? I think pretty much all of them had one or another of their pet theories demolished today…

    What say you birthers?

  61. avatar
    Robert Clark April 26, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    Someone is clearly feeding Trump some high-quality birther crap – my money’s on Corsi or Farah – I’m starting to think that Trump is a dupe, not a con-man…I agree with the White House, as good as this will be for President Obama it would be much better for the country if the birthers went away…

    On the other hand someone was clearly feeding Anderson Cooper some anti-birther talking points.

    Bob

  62. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 26, 2011 at 11:37 pm #

    Robert Clark: On the other hand someone was clearly feeding Anderson Cooper some anti-birther talking points.

    CNN has staff for just that sort of thing.

  63. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    Robert Clark: On the other hand someone was clearly feeding Anderson Cooper some anti-birther talking points.

    Such as?

  64. avatar
    Robert Clark April 26, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    Finally, at least the White House press corp asked the question of why Obama wouldn’t release the original long form birth certificate.
    Now they need to ask the question: is the President willing to state on the record he was born at Kapiolani hospital?
    BTW, the new press secretary Jay Carney clearly looks uncomfortable in this job. But I remember Hannity on his show used to criticize Robert Gibbs unmercifully early on in his position as the press secretary, but Gibbs grew into the job, showing humor and creativity in his responses. Perhaps Carney will grow into the role as well.

    Bob

  65. avatar
    Robert Clark April 26, 2011 at 11:42 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Such as?

    For instance knowing how much McCain spent on his legal fees and saying Obama’s amount is not out of the ordinary compared to his.

    Bob

  66. avatar
    JoZeppy April 26, 2011 at 11:44 pm #

    Robert Clark: On the other hand someone was clearly feeding Anderson Cooper some anti-birther talking points.Bob

    those aren’t talking points….they’re facts….as you are a birther, I can understand your trouble recognizing facts.

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 26, 2011 at 11:45 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Just watched the first part of AC 360 – the bad news for the birthers just doesn’t stop. I’m having problems containing my shadenfreude – this couldn’t have happened to a more deserving bunch.

    Up until now, birthers have lived in the dark, using made-up negatives like “nobody remembers.” That sort of works so long as no one has the legs to go to Hawaii and interview people. All of the sudden, all those lies that only worked because Hawaii was distant, and sources were inaccessible to the general public, don’t work any more.

  68. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 26, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    By the way, has anyone caught the big contradiction/shoot from the hip moment in the first night’s program? Dr. Conspiracy’s law: any time a big name news organization does a major piece on birthers, they mess up something.

  69. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Someone is clearly feeding Trump some high-quality birther crap – my money’s on Corsi or Farah – I’m starting to think that Trump is a dupe, not a con-man… I agree with the White House, as good as this will be for President Obama it would be much better for the country if the birthers went away…

    Agreed.

    Another key point that has been discussed today on the AC interview (NOTE: it was also a focus of Chris Matthew’s show today on MSNBC) is that the Birthers & Trump are already “moving the goal posts” again, in a predictable way we’ve seen before.

    As a result of all the debunking that has happened as a response, (which pretty much shot down all their attacks on the HI COLB), Trump has already moved to goal posts to the old backup attack on Obama’s college records – both with insinuations doubting he was ever there (the Manning approach) and then moving quickly to sleezy “affirmative action” accusations… (a not-so subtle racist dog-whistle)

    The Chris Matthews show did a REALLY good job of calling out this latest smear for what it was and AC was able to briefly touch upon it as well.

  70. avatar
    JoZeppy April 26, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    Robert Clark: For instance knowing how much McCain spent on his legal fees and saying Obama’s amount is not out of the ordinary compared to his.Bob

    How is that a talking point?

  71. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 11:52 pm #

    Robert Clark: For instance knowing how much McCain spent on his legal fees and saying Obama’s amount is not out of the ordinary compared to his.

    So unless someone was feeding him information, he wouldn’t have looked into Trump’s claim that President Obama had spent over $2 million hiding his records? I’m sorry, but your desperation is pushing you into saying some truly stupid things. As Doc pointed out, AC’s staff would have been incompetent if they didn’t provide him with that information. Real reporters don’t just make things up like they do on FOX (or at WND or the P&E or Orly’s, or Dr. K(h)ate’s or…).

  72. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 11:52 pm #

    Robert Clark: On the other hand someone was clearly feeding Anderson Cooper some anti-birther talking points.
    Bob

    They are called facts and evidence, Bob. It is also known as investigative journalism.

    I can understand if these concepts are beyond your irrational delusions and ability to cope.

  73. avatar
    Robert Clark April 26, 2011 at 11:54 pm #

    Slartibartfast: And I thought the interview with Governor Abercrombie showed him to be exactly what some of us have been saying – an old guy who’s pissed about his dead friends being disrespected…

    I wonder how long it will take the family members of the birthers (those they haven’t managed to alienate yet, anyway) to talk them down off of the ledge?I think pretty much all of them had one or another of their pet theories demolished today…

    What say you birthers?

    You are kidding right? There was nothing there that was not already discussed ad nauseum on forums like this one.
    The one key fact I got out of this CNN report actually benefits the birther viewpoint. As I have been arguing it is not illegal for someone to be given a copy of their own original long form birth certificate, contrary to the claims of the spokesman Joshua Wisch of the Atty. Gens.’s office. It is merely current policy to give out the short form because it is easier and cheaper to have a computer print out a standardized form.
    This means Obamas original long form birth certificate could be released if he chose to release it. He simply chooses not to.

    Bob

  74. avatar
    aarrgghh April 26, 2011 at 11:55 pm #

    more freeper adorableness:

    “They are hitting this so hard I am starting to wonder if Ann was even his mother on the original BC.”

  75. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 11:58 pm #

    Robert Clark: For instance knowing how much McCain spent on his legal fees and saying Obama’s amount is not out of the ordinary compared to his.

    That’s been discussed on this site as well as others, so if the AC team meerly looked at anti-birther websites, they could have found the information on their own.

    google the following “mccain spent as much as obama on lawyers”, see what you get.

  76. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:01 am #

    Robert Clark: There was nothing there that was not already discussed ad nauseum on forums like this one.

    You didn’t notice that they spoke with Ann’s professor who remembered her comparing her birthing experience in Indonesia with that of the United States?

    You didn’t notice that they spoke with another mother who remembered Obama Jr. being in the nursery at Kapiolani Hospital?

    All you got from the report was something that confirmed what you had argued – although for an entirely different reason than you have ever argued?

    Talk about selection bias!

  77. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 12:01 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Up until now, birthers have lived in the dark, using made-up negatives like “nobody remembers.” That sort of works so long as no one has the legs to go to Hawaii and interview people. All of the sudden, all those lies that only worked because Hawaii was distant, and sources were inaccessible to the general public, don’t work any more.

    I absolutely loved seeing CNN do all the things the birthers should have tried if they were serious and competent and intent on finding the facts. Finding Stig and his mom, talking to Dr. Fukino (admittedly birthers couldn’t have done this), the interview with Governor Abercrombie, talking with White House officials – covered most of the main points very thoroughly. I’m starting to think that Trump is a birther true believer, though… and I don’t think that any of the true believers have a clue how bad all this attention is for them – it’s like a little boy crowing about how fast he’s going on his bike on the railroad tracks completely oblivious to the speeding train that’s about to hit him.

  78. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:04 am #

    gorefan: That’s been discussed on this site as well as others, so if the AC team meerly looked at anti-birther websites, they could have found the information on their own.

    It’s also freely available information that one could easily get from the FEC. I’ve gotten the information myself and done back of the envelope calculations.

    Why, Robert, do you think someone had to be feeding this information to AC?

  79. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 12:07 am #

    Robert Clark: Now they need to ask the question: is the President willing to state on the record he was born at Kapiolani hospital?

    They pretty much addressed that in the onsite HI interviews on the AC program. Apparently, you weren’t paying attention. Kapiolani was mentioned AS the hospital place of birth EVERY time they talked about the subject.

    They showed the Kapiolani hospital and talked about it and also had Stig’s mom, who gave birth there on Aug 5th talk about her memory of seeing Barack Jr. AT the hospital.

    They also covered how a hospital cannot disclose private and personal info about the people that stay there.

    Therefore, there is no reasonable question on this issue. If you still will have doubts on this irrelevant and meaningless detail that every available bit of info, evidence and source accounts all confirm…then you are beyond hope and as the White House indicated on Birtherism period – there is NO point in paying attention and trying to appease you with additional confirmations.

  80. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 12:09 am #

    Robert Clark: The one key fact I got out of this CNN report actually benefits the birther viewpoint. As I have been arguing it is not illegal for someone to be given a copy of their own original long form birth certificate, contrary to the claims of the spokesman Joshua Wisch of the Atty. Gens.’s office. It is merely current policy to give out the short form because it is easier and cheaper to have a computer print out a standardized form.
    This means Obamas original long form birth certificate could be released if he chose to release it. He simply chooses not to.

    Actually, no. They confirmed that you can get a meaningless, uncertified, unofficial photocopy of the document, if you really wanted it bad enough.

  81. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 12:10 am #

    Robert Clark: You are kidding right? There was nothing there that was not already discussed ad nauseum on forums like this one.The one key fact I got out of this CNN report actually benefits the birther viewpoint. As I have been arguing it is not illegal for someone to be given a copy of their own original long form birth certificate, contrary to the claims of the spokesman Joshua Wisch of the Atty. Gens.’s office. It is merely current policy to give out the short form because it is easier and cheaper to have a computer print out a standardized form.This means Obamas original long form birth certificate could be released if he chose to release it. He simply chooses not to.

    I understand that you are completely unaware of this, but AC’s entire audience was just inoculated against birtherism – as was Chris Mattews’ (and Bill O’Reilly’s) and on down the line. Trump is forcing the media to do birther coverage and they are responding by actually INVESTIGATING – and finding nothing – which is what the stream of freshly converted birthers is going to dwindle to. Critical investigative attention isn’t good if you are a conspiracy theory which depends on vague, unsupported allegations and constantly moving the goalposts. Congratulations – it has just become 100% certain that the birther movement will ultimately be a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

  82. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    Greg: You didn’t notice that they spoke with Ann’s professor who remembered her comparing her birthing experience in Indonesia with that of the United States?

    You didn’t notice that they spoke with another mother who remembered Obama Jr. being in the nursery at Kapiolani Hospital?

    All you got from the report was something that confirmed what you had argued – although for an entirely different reason than you have ever argued?

    Talk about selection bias!

    Great example! Thanks Bobbie – it’s not often that we get to see a confirmation bias at work.

  83. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    JoZeppy: How is that a talking point?

    Talking point.

    A political think tank will strategize the most effective informational attack on a target topic and launch talking points from media personalities to saturate discourse in order to frame a debate in their favor, standardizing the responses of sympathizers to their unique cause.[citation needed]
    When used politically in this way, the typical purpose of a talking point is to propagandize, specifically using the technique of argumentum ad nauseam, i.e. continuous repetition within media outlets until accepted as fact.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_point

    Bob

  84. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    Robert Clark: This means Obamas original long form birth certificate could be released if he chose to release it. He simply chooses not to.

    You mean if he choses to pursue an ALTERNATE avenue to their standard procedures and file an HI FOIA request on his own records, all in order to obtain a NON-CERTIFIED copy of a document that doesn’t add anything to the NBC conversation, as the COLB already showed all relevant fields…

    You mean that?

    OF COURSE he choses NOT to.

    And the AC interview explicitly addressed the White Houses position on that and WHY.

    Finally, NONE of that FOIA end-run-around exception process in any way contradicts what the other HI officials have consistently said – the HI COLB is the ONLY CERTIFIED BC you get and they won’t directly give you your “long form” if you ask for it directly from them.

  85. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:14 am #

    Just in case anyone’s playing the “How would I get this into evidence” game at home, like I always do, the Professor’s memory of what Stanley Ann Dunham said about the birth of Barack and his sister is hearsay, but would come into evidence as an exception to the hearsay rule:

    (4) Statement of personal or family history. (A) A statement concerning the declarant’s own birth, adoption, marriage, divorce, legitimacy, relationship by blood, adoption, or marriage, ancestry, or other similar fact of personal or family history, even though declarant had no means of acquiring personal knowledge of the matter stated; or (B) a statement concerning the foregoing matters, and death also, of another person, if the declarant was related to the other by blood, adoption, or marriage or was so intimately associated with the other’s family as to be likely to have accurate information concerning the matter declared.

    Stanley Ann Dunham is dead, so she is unavailable to testify. Therefore, Federal Rules of Evidence 804(b)(4)(B) applies.

    Stig’s mother’s testimony and Governor Abercrombie’s testimony is that of a percipient witness, so you can impeach her/his memory or credibility, but it comes into evidence nonetheless.

    I still have not seen a single piece of evidence from the birthers that could pass the admissibility tests.

  86. avatar
    gorefan April 27, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    Slartibartfast: Finding Stig and his mom

    I always wondered why birthers never tracked down kids listed in the newspaper announcements. Some of the addresses are still owned by the same families. I just assumed they were afraid of what they might find out.

  87. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    Robert Clark: For instance knowing how much McCain spent on his legal fees and saying Obama’s amount is not out of the ordinary compared to his.Bob

    It is called journalism and doing their homework on an issue that was raised Bob.

    Ever heard of the FEC? Yeah, they regularly audit presidential campaigns and report their findings. They report on what the campaigns spent and what portion had to go to legal fees during and post-campaign. *DUH*

  88. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    Robert Clark: Talking point.

    Yes, you’ve demonstrated that you can copy and paste a definition.

    Now, please apply the definition. How is that a talking point?

  89. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    Greg: Just in case anyone’s playing the “How would I get this into evidence” game at home

    Now you’ve ruined it for the rest of us… πŸ™

    Seriously, well said.

    Bobbie, do you have any kind of response? (some sort of mea culpa seems in order – assuming that our low opinion of your good character is incorrect…)

  90. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    Robert Clark: Talking point.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_pointBob

    Yeah…but you’ve got it backwards.

    The “talking point” starts a conversation. Any good journalist should investigate and follow-up on a “talking point”.

    HINT: Where did ALL the talking point claims that Obama’s been spending XXX on “fighting release of his records” come from – oh, that’s right BIRTHERS. Often WND, but then again, that’s one of the main Birther propaganda machines out there and has been since Day 1.

    So yeah. Birthers HAD a talking point. The FEC released the data that they “seem” (at least WND points to it) to have based that talking point on, and journalists, such as AC on CNN and others are able to easily look at those FEC reports and see what is there and compare them to the nonsense Birther claims.

    As always, the result is that the Birther lies, myths and misinformation is DEBUNKED.

    Sucks to be you.

  91. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    gorefan: I always wondered why birthers never tracked down kids listed in the newspaper announcements.Some of the addresses are still owned by the same families.I just assumed they were afraid of what they might find out.

    And apparently rightly so.

  92. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 12:26 am #

    Robert Clark: Talking point.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_pointBob

    That’s nice. But it doesn’t make it a talking point. It is a documented fact that John McCain spent $1.3 million on lawyers over the same period of time. How does one determine if how much the Obama campaign spent an unusual without a comparison? And to be honest, it’s not a fair comparison, as Obama had significantly more money at his disposal, and didn’t have to be as budget conscious when deciding how much to set aside for winding down the campaign or setting money aside for the now normal litigation that has been the case since Bush v. Gore.

  93. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 12:28 am #

    gorefan: I always wondered why birthers never tracked down kids listed in the newspaper announcements. Some of the addresses are still owned by the same families. I just assumed they were afraid of what they might find out.

    BINGO!

    Same reason NONE of them will go to his campaign HQ in Chicago and try to see the physical BC itself….

    Same reason the Ankeny case wasn’t appealed further….

    Same reason many (such as NC1) blather about wanting certain records or claiming HI officials are breaking the law, yet they won’t take any actions themselves to get these records or puruse legal action…

    They don’t want to put “real” efforts into looking at stuff. Somewhere, deep inside their reptilian brains, they realize the truth and they don’t want to take any effort that would actually provide answers to their Concern Troll lies.

    They are on an dark emotional agenda-based mission to spread misinformation and doubt. Facts, evidence and answers to their fake questions are only damaging to that agenda and are therefore avoided at all costs.

  94. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:36 am #

    JoZeppy: And to be honest, it’s not a fair comparison, as Obama had significantly more money at his disposal, and didn’t have to be as budget conscious when deciding how much to set aside for winding down the campaign or setting money aside for the now normal litigation that has been the case since Bush v. Gore.

    Roll Call published an article at the end of last month that noted Obama’s legal spending and compared it to McCain’s. Maybe, instead of a nefarious someone feeding AC “talking points” someone at CNN actually read the article and the attached chart comparing Obama, McCain’s and Clinton’s legal spending.

    My back of the envelope calculations suggest that the total spent on legal fees is almost exactly in line with how much was raised and spent by the two campaigns.

  95. avatar
    Rickey April 27, 2011 at 12:50 am #

    Robert Clark: The one key fact I got out of this CNN report actually benefits the birther viewpoint. As I have been arguing it is not illegal for someone to be given a copy of their own original long form birth certificate, contrary to the claims of the spokesman Joshua Wisch of the Atty. Gens.’s office.

    To anyone but a confirmed birther, it is clear that Mr. Wisch was talking about getting an actual birth certificate – i.e., a state-certified document which can be used as legal proof of birth. It is possible to get an uncertified photocopy of a long-form birth certificate, but a photocopy of a birth certificate is not a birth certificate. It is no longer possible to get a certified copy of a long-form birth certificate in Hawaii.

    Incidentally, remember your anonymous poster who claimed to be able to get a New York State long-form birth certificate through VitalChek? I asked VitalChek about that a week ago, and thus far they have been unable to confirm that they can get my long form New York birth certificate for me.

  96. avatar
    Lupin April 27, 2011 at 2:05 am #

    shorter Robert Clark: I will never ever accept that that black dude might be my legitimate president. Over my dead body.

    As pointed out before, it is not automatically racist to oppose Obama for his policies, or even his supposed failings.

    However to deny the possibility against overwhelming evidence that the president is just what he says he is & perfectly legitimate — while having never demonstrably expressed the same concerns about any previous president — requires a good dose of racism (even if the subject does not recognize it).

  97. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 2:08 am #

    Lupin:
    shorter Robert Clark: I will never ever accept that that black dude might be my legitimate president. Over my dead body.

    As pointed out before, it is not automatically racist to oppose Obama for his policies, or even his supposed failings.

    However to deny the possibility against overwhelming evidence that the president is just what he says he is & perfectly legitimate — while having never demonstrably expressed the same concerns about any previous president — requires a good dose of racism (even if the subject does not recognize it).

    I believe that it is possible to be bigoted against President Obama for other reasons than race.

  98. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 2:46 am #

    Slartibartfast: I believe that it is possible to be bigoted against President Obama for other reasons than race.

    AGREED. Bigotry is a much more appropriate and accurate term to encompass what is going on here.

    Although there are definitely some vary obvious racist components amongst groups like the Birthers & Tea Party, etc it is important not to fall into the false trap of assuming that race is always a factor in their bigotry.

    There are clearly a number of these groups that seem to really be obsessed and focused on issues of his religion.

    This includes those strong “anti-muslim” gut-feel reactions out there by those that deny him his Christianity, just because of the sound of his name and the listed religion of both his father and his mother’s 2nd husband. There are folks that are convinced that somehow religion is inherited and you can’t convince them otherwise. These folks don’t even care that even Obama Sr. appears to have been a secular Muslim at best… all the care about is hearing the foreign sounding name and ancestral / familial links to a religion they don’t understand, don’t wish to understand and are deathly afraid of. It doesn’t matter to them at all that Obama Jr. NEVER was a muslim himself… they write him off as guilt by association alone. The simple harmless truth that he lived in Indonesia for a few years as a kid is too much “otherness” for them to handle and they don’t care about the truth of what type of school he really went too… Indonesia simply being a foreign and predominantly Muslim country is enough for them to permanently fear and demonize him, sadly.

    There is also another set of religious bigotry at play as well – those that don’t view him as “sufficiently Christian” because, in their view, he doesn’t mention religion as often as they want or worship sufficiently or even of the “right” brand of Christianity that they prefer. These folks are sadly always in play. They are the Theocrats, who despite there being explicit statements in our Constitution declaring that there shall be no religious test for office, ALWAYS use “religious tests” as part of their core voting criterea.

    Finally, there is a whole additional major class of bigots involved here – a group that we saw back in the Clinton days…except they’ve become even more extreme today – those that have been brainwashed and raised to HATE and dehumanize as “the enemy” (and extreme form of “otherness”) anyone who is of a different political persuasion than themselves – often in the form of being viscerally opposed to any perceived Democrat, liberal, progressive, etc.

    Then there are a few odds & ends – some of the PUMA folks – either locked in spitefulness as mere sore losers that can’t accept their beloved candidate didn’t win and feel “robbed” that she was somehow merely “entitled” to POTUS in 2008. Some of this includes a mix of sexism that it was a “woman’s turn” and how dare that “man” swoop in and take that away from her…

    Plus, there are definitely a lot of them who hold more than one or even ALL of those forms of bigotry. There is definitely a correlation between a lot of these types of bigotry (including racism) and where they stem from.

    So, there is definitely a mixed lot of complexity going on behind these motivations…but ALL are forms of bigotry.

    But it is important to clarify that there are bigots out there that so far seem to only be fixated on ONE of those issues as well.

    So, let’s just call them bigots in general, when bigotry is displayed and only get more specific on type if they actually demonstrate evidence of that particular form of bigotry.

    Race is definitely a big factor at play…but it is certainly not the only factor, nor is it always part of the equation.

  99. avatar
    Hawaiiborn April 27, 2011 at 5:10 am #

    Expelliarmus: Actually, we don’t know that it is same day service.It looks that way on the video, but it’s also very possible that he filled out an application a week or so before filming, and then CNN went in to do the filming after Stig was notified that the birth certificate was ready to pick up.(That might also explain the $7 thing — perhaps Stig went in on his own,, maybe he filled out an app requesting 2 copies, and then CNN paid for one)

    I dont know. When I ordered mines in 2006, I got it the same day. Waited about 20 minutes though.

  100. avatar
    Hawaiiborn April 27, 2011 at 5:13 am #

    Yup..Got it the day I asked for it. I believe I paid $7 at the time. I officially left for the mainland that week I ordered it (I went in on the 14th and I left Hawaii on the 18th). I had started at my new job the following Monday.

  101. avatar
    Lupin April 27, 2011 at 5:59 am #

    Slartibartfast: I believe that it is possible to be bigoted against President Obama for other reasons than race.

    Opposed to him and his policies, yes, of course. Virulently so even.

    But to so thoroughly reject him because of his race, origins, father, middle name? One can split semantic hairs, but “race” is at the core of it.

    The best proof is that when you push the birthers a step too far, the real racist comments, photoshopped monkey photos, etc. come out.

    Or you have people like Apuzzo who purports to use Obama’s case to try to disenfranchise the children of immigrants, etc.

    We’re not dealing with just opponents to Obama and/or the Democrats here; we’re dealing with the racist subset.

  102. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 6:41 am #

    Slartibartfast: I understand that you are completely unaware of this, but AC’s entire audience was just inoculated against birtherism – as was Chris Mattews’ (and Bill O’Reilly’s) and on down the line.Trump is forcing the media to do birther coverage and they are responding by actually INVESTIGATING – and finding nothing – which is what the stream of freshly converted birthers is going to dwindle to.Critical investigative attention isn’t good if you are a conspiracy theory which depends on vague, unsupported allegations and constantly moving the goalposts.Congratulations – it has just become 100% certain that the birther movement will ultimately be a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    If they saw the second part on Tuesday they also saw the press secretary very uncomfortably responding to a question about why the President wouldn’t release his original long form birth certificate. I mean if you connected a “lie detector” to the guy at that point the needles would have been gyrating all over the place. They clearly want this issue to go away, despite what the pundits are saying that it hurts the republicans.
    It’s not the job of the press to only ask comfortable questions of the President, and it certainly is not a requirement of his political opponents to only raise issues that make him comfortable.

    Bob

  103. avatar
    Northland10 April 27, 2011 at 7:09 am #

    Robert Clark: press secretary very uncomfortably responding to a question about why the President wouldn’t release his original long form birth certificate. I mean if you connected a “lie detector” to the guy at that point the needles would have been gyrating all over the place.

    So are you an expert in what another is feeling? So your sense of him being “uncomfortable” means he is lying? You really are grasping at straws. He could be just as uncomfortable from a meal that does not sit well or maybe his shoes are too tight.

    Or maybe…

    He his just annoyed at the same questions over and over again that have nothing to do with the economy, the debt, terrorism, health care, etc.

    Robert Clark: and it certainly is not a requirement of his political opponents to only raise issues that make him comfortable.

    But nothing is more annoying than a made up issues where your opponent is just lying with no facts.

  104. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 7:15 am #

    I wonder what a lie detector hooked to Bobby Clark would do?

    Anyway, Bobby, according to you, what spokespeople say doesn’t count, does it? I mean Mr Wisch doesn’t speak for the Hawaiii AG according to you, so does some White House “flack:” as you called Wisch speak for the President?

    As far as the issues raised by the President’s opponents, we had a campaign in 2008 that lasted a full year. Every fact we know today was known then. There were more Democratic debates than anyone could count, including several where any candidate could ask a question to any other candidate. Not one, not even your beloved Hillary, ever asked Obama about where he was born. There were also 3 debates in the general election and it didn’t come up.

    Now it’s being raised by a liar and a clown. Donald Trump said, unambiguously, that he had investigators in Hawaii. No one has seen them. Therefore, he is a liar. As for the clown part, have you looked beyond his birtherism? He says he can tell the Saudis how much to charge for oil. In other words, they will sell oil to the US for $70/barrel, rather than get $110/barrel from China or Germany or India, just because Donald’s hairpiece scares them.? Yeah, right.

  105. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 7:29 am #

    Hawaiiborn:
    Yup..Got it the day I asked for it. I believe I paid $7 at the time. I officially left for the mainland that week I ordered it (I went in on the 14th and I left Hawaii on the 18th). I had started at my new job the following Monday.

    Hawaiiborn, I wanted someone from Hawaii to do an experiment. I called the Hawaii DOH and was told you could get your original long form birth certificate with an ‘apostille’.This is an extra level of certification for it to be used internationally. I wanted to see if it is possible for someone from Hawaii to get this. Here’s the web page with the phone numbers to request the apostille:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html

    You’ll have to say which country it will be used for say, Italy or France. Make sure you make it clear that only the original long form birth certificate that was filed at birth will do, not the computer-generated short form that is normally given out currently.
    Another experiment would be to ask for the original long form birth certificate because you are doing genealogical research on your own family background and you want more detailed information. Whatever4 was to able to order his for genealogical research on his own background from Pennsylvania. He also had to specify he wanted the “complete birth record”. It might be a good idea to say this as well to be sure there is no misunderstanding on which document you want.
    In both of these cases, perhaps you could ask how long it would take. Whatever4 in PA was told it would take 6 to 8 weeks. The CNN report on Anderson Cooper 360 on Monday said it would take weeks to get the long form from Hawaii, though that may be because the person who ordered got his through a FOIA request.
    Finally, if those two methods do not work to get the long form you could mention that you saw on CNN that you could get one by filing a Freedom of Information Act request, and ask how you would go about filing that.

    Bob

  106. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 7:41 am #

    So, Bob, you want Hawaiiborn to LIE to the State of Hawaii? Because he doesn’t need the form for those purposes, nor do those countries (France for certain) require anything like what you have said.

    So, not only are you a LIAR and Trump a LIAR, you want to induce others to LIE as well.

    Have you no shame?????

  107. avatar
    Lupin April 27, 2011 at 8:22 am #

    I assume you have sen this new piece of evidence:

    http://www2.az-independent.com/2011/04/26/independent-exclusive-dads-immigration-file-offers-more-evidence-of-obamas-birthplace/

    A memo dated Aug. 31, 1961 from William Wood of Immigration and Naturalization Services indicates that Barack Obama, Sr., was attending the University of Hawaii on a student visa and that a son, Barack Obama, II, was born in Honolulu on Aug, 8, 1961.

    The memo us rather icky in fact.

  108. avatar
    JD Reed April 27, 2011 at 8:27 am #

    Scientist, isn’t it possible that Mr. Trump wasn’t lying, but merely got his verb order mixed up. Couldn’t he have meant, instead of “(My investigators) can’t believe what they’re finding,” maybe he meant to say that they “can’t find what they’re believing.”

  109. avatar
    DCH April 27, 2011 at 8:31 am #

    Bob
    “This means Obamas original long form birth certificate could be released if he chose to release it. He simply chooses not to.”

    Nonsense, he already complied to your request. The fact that it does not meet your “standards” means exactly zero. The COLB is accepted in all US courts – the same one you idiots have managed to lose in 86 times in a row.

    FACT: The COLB establishes the relevant facts required to establish eligibility.
    The fact that he ignore obvious bigots and pure nusances is not surprising.
    You make false accusations and expect hom to respond.

    Why don’t you just file a lawsuit and go explain your reasoning to a judge?
    Have you tried drafting a case? In not, why not, The court has to at leaset give it a read and respond.

    Oh, that’s right! You don’t have any evidence.

    Tell me why have you guys FAILEd Eighty Six times in a row in fron of US courts?

    It does suck to be a birther.

  110. avatar
    Sef April 27, 2011 at 9:09 am #

    Lupin:
    I assume you have sen this new piece of evidence:

    http://www2.az-independent.com/2011/04/26/independent-exclusive-dads-immigration-file-offers-more-evidence-of-obamas-birthplace/

    A memo dated Aug. 31, 1961 from William Wood of Immigration and Naturalization Services indicates that Barack Obama, Sr., was attending the University of Hawaii on a student visa and that a son, Barack Obama, II, was born in Honolulu on Aug, 8, 1961.

    The memo us rather icky in fact.

    Except that “8/4” is Aug 4, not Aug 8.

  111. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 9:13 am #

    Lupin: I assume you have sen this new piece of evidence:http://www2.az-independent.com/2011/04/26/independent-exclusive-dads-immigration-file-offers-more-evidence-of-obamas-birthplace/A memo dated Aug. 31, 1961 from William Wood of Immigration and Naturalization Services indicates that Barack Obama, Sr., was attending the University of Hawaii on a student visa and that a son, Barack Obama, II, was born in Honolulu on Aug, 8, 1961.The memo us rather icky in fact.

    No, that is the first I’ve seen of it. Good find, Lupin. This is one for Dr. C. to write a blog on.

    If this is a new FOIA find, it is further confirmation of Obama Jr.’s birth.

    This FOIA release provides the story of his father’s time in the US and why he went back. It also answers that the US eventually found out about his other marriage in Kenya, leading to their denial on continuing to renew his VISA in 1964.

    We already have the divorce decree from the same year, so we all know the end of that story.

    It may not be a pretty story or a happy story, but all it does is fill in a few minor details of his parent’s early years and dovetails in pretty much with everything that is already known.

    Anyone who would care or try to use these little tidbits about his father against the President would just be petty beyond reason, as there is nothing little baby Barack can be blamed for of his father’s attitude or behavior.

    The key value is MORE PROOF of his 1961 birth in Honolulu, HI. That is the only real data of any relevance or value.

    Truly, no sitting president has had his birth story and history as verified and recorded as this president.

  112. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    JD Reed: Scientist, isn’t it possible that Mr. Trump wasn’t lying, but merely got his verb order mixed up. Couldn’t he have meant, instead of “(My investigators) can’t believe what they’re finding,” maybe he meant to say that they “can’t find what they’re believing.”

    LOL! Good one and all too true…

  113. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 27, 2011 at 9:16 am #

    G: No, that is the first I’ve seen of it. Good find, Lupin. This is one for Dr. C. to write a blog on.If this is a new FOIA find, it is further confirmation of Obama Jr.’s birth.This FOIA release provides the story of his father’s time in the US and why he went back. It also answers that the US eventually found out about his other marriage in Kenya, leading to their denial on continuing to renew his VISA in 1964.We already have the divorce decree from the same year, so we all know the end of that story.It may not be a pretty story or a happy story, but all it does is fill in a few minor details of his parent’s early years and dovetails in pretty much with everything that is already known. Anyone who would care or try to use these little tidbits about his father against the President would just be petty beyond reason, as there is nothing little baby Barack can be blamed for of his father’s attitude or behavior.The key value is MORE PROOF of his 1961 birth in Honolulu, HI. That is the only real data of any relevance or value.Truly, no sitting president has had his birth story and history as verified and recorded as this president.

    More evidence CBS News reports the White House has released a copy of the original

    http://twitpic.com/4q47pm

    NPR Also mentions it

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/27/135765548/obamas-certificate-of-live-birth-released-by-the-white-house

  114. avatar
    DCH April 27, 2011 at 9:17 am #

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/president-obama-releases-long-form-birth-certificate.php?ref=fpi

    Scoop. Long Form of Obama just released by the WH. They obtained it on 4/25.

    We are officially done.
    Go home birthers – you goy exactly nothing.

  115. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 27, 2011 at 9:18 am #

    DCH: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/president-obama-releases-long-form-birth-certificate.php?ref=fpiScoop. Long Form of Obama just released by the WH. They obtained it on 4/25.We are officially done.Go home birthers – you goy exactly nothing.

    I beat you to it πŸ˜›

  116. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 9:22 am #

    White House releases Obama’s original birth certificate.

    And birthers declare it a forgery and/or move the goalposts in . . .

    5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . .

  117. avatar
    DCH April 27, 2011 at 9:22 am #

    You did indeed.

  118. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 27, 2011 at 9:26 am #

    Here is something more official http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

  119. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 9:28 am #

    Does this mean Robert Clark will vote for Obama now or NC1 will admit she was wrong and apologize?

    Any birther apologies or admissions that this conspiracy was B.S. all along?

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-correspondence.pdf

    http://twitpic.com/4q47pm

  120. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 9:30 am #

    Donald Trump is “very proud of himself” and “honored to have played such a big role”.

    But, “it still needs to be checked out”.

  121. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 9:32 am #

    Trump is implying that the first copy issued by Hawaii wasn’t good enough which is insulting to the state of Hawaii, U.S. law and true, law abiding Americans.

    Trump is an idiot.

  122. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 9:34 am #

    Darn it all, Obama. You were supposed to wait until next fall.

    I’m glad to see I was right that he would eventually release it, but I got the doctor wrong. I thought it would be Toru Nishigaya, or maybe Rodney West as a long shot.

  123. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Here is something more official http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    Obama will hold a press conference himself on the issue at 9:45am today.

    (…which is just 6 minutes from now…hopefully Trump will be done with his taking credit for everything by now. Oh…they are about to cut away from Trump in case the President comes on)

    Right now, Trump is being a gloating *ss – he’s already insinuated that he doesn’t know if the “long form” is legit and NOW he’s back to bringing up attacks on Obama’s college records and insinuating that Obama was a bad student, affirmative action and why won’t he release those records…

    …So…that didn’t take long for the predictable Birther bigots reaction to be to both deny the authenticity of the “long form” and to immediately move the goal posts to demand other unnecessary records and cast more slimy aspersions…

    So sad & predictable.

  124. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 27, 2011 at 9:42 am #

    Majority Will: Trump is implying that the first copy issued by Hawaii wasn’t good enough which is insulting to the state of Hawaii, U.S. law and true, law abiding Americans.Trump is an idiot.

    Now Trump wants the Academic records. Jeez it was obvious from the getgo Trump would go back on his word

  125. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 9:46 am #

    Breaking news: Corsi’s book release party will be a “weenie roast” with a giant book bonfire.

    They may be hard to burn with so much slime.

  126. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    nemocapn: Darn it all, Obama. You were supposed to wait until next fall. I’m glad to see I was right that he would eventually release it, but I got the doctor wrong. I thought it would be Toru Nishigaya, or maybe Rodney West as a long shot.

    Yeah, that is really the ONLY new info that comes from this…worthy of maybe a Trivial Pursuit or Jeopardy question some day at best.

    Looks like a “David Smilain” if I can read the attendant M.D.’s signature properly.

  127. avatar
    sponson April 27, 2011 at 9:48 am #

    The President just released a copy of what was once his birth certificate. Yes, that one. He is about to speak in the White House press room. Some may recall that I have contended all along that this was within his power, and also that I thought it was a bad idea for him to do it. Now let’s see what happens.

  128. avatar
    Lupin April 27, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    G: Right now, Trump is being a gloating *ss – he’s already insinuated that he doesn’t know if the “long form” is legit and NOW he’s back to bringing up attacks on Obama’s college records and insinuating that Obama was a bad student, affirmative action and why won’t he release those records…

    Yes, officer, I was presidenting while black… πŸ™‚

    Seriously I feel kinda bad that Obama was in effect humiliatingly forced to cater to those bigots by releasing documents he had every right not to release and no one else before him had to release. It sort of nails the fact that black presidents are to be treated unequally and are inherently suspect.

    This is not a victory for racial equality.

  129. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    Does this mean Lucas Smith will have to get a real job now instead of lying about his forgery?

    http://www.slideshare.net/whitehouse/birth-certificatelongform?from=embed

  130. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 9:53 am #

    Can we get a close-up of Tim Adams facial expression right now?

  131. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    Press conference by Obama just completed. He did a good job of pointing out that it is time to focus on serious matters and not sideshow distractions.

    When a full transcript of his press conference is made available, Dr. C. should post it here as its own article.

  132. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    FAKE FAKE FAKE

    fact 1 – NO SEAL

    see it it is FAKE !!!

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

  133. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 9:55 am #

    G: Looks like a “David Smilain” if I can read the attendant M.D.’s signature properly.

    And how long will it be before he and his family are relentlessly stalked and smeared by birther bigot lunatics?

  134. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 9:56 am #

    FAKE FAKE FAKE
    no FATHER’s SIGNATURE

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

  135. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 9:57 am #

    Lupin: releasing documents he had every right not to release and no one else before him had to release. It sort of nails the fact that black presidents are to be treated unequally and are inherently suspect.
    This is not a victory for racial equality.

    Sadly, I agree with your points on that. In some ways, it comes across as an aquiescense for a black man to accept being held to a higher standard than any white person…

  136. avatar
    Lupin April 27, 2011 at 9:58 am #

    Let the KKK troll fart under his hood and suffocate.

  137. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    Majority Will: Can we get a close-up of Tim Adams facial expression right now?

    Or Orly’s? Heck All of those Birther shyster lawyers & major birther players for that matter….

  138. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    thefarleftView: FAKE FAKE FAKEno FATHER’s SIGNATUREhttp://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    So predictable! Don’t you have a cross burning to attend to somewhere?

    Begone, vile and obvious bigot troll.

  139. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 10:02 am #

    Scientist:
    So, Bob, you want Hawaiiborn to LIE to the State of Hawaii?Because he doesn’t need the form for those purposes, nor do those countries (France for certain) require anything like what you have said.

    So, not only are you a LIAR and Trump a LIAR, you want to induce others to LIE as well.
    Have you no shame?????

    Most people would have some interest in a genealogical search. It’s just a matter of how strenuous is your desire to find out. πŸ˜‰

    Bob

  140. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    Robert Clark: If they saw the second part on Tuesday they also saw the press secretary very uncomfortably responding to a question about why the President wouldn’t release his original long form birth certificate. I mean if you connected a “lie detector” to the guy at that point the needles would have been gyrating all over the place. They clearly want this issue to go away, despite what the pundits are saying that it hurts the republicans.It’s not the job of the press to only ask comfortable questions of the President, and it certainly is not a requirement of his political opponents to only raise issues that make him comfortable.

    Bob

    Once more you’re wrong Bobbie! Are you going to vote for President Obama now?

  141. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    Majority Will: Does this mean Lucas Smith will have to get a real job now instead of lying about his forgery?http://www.slideshare.net/whitehouse/birth-certificatelongform?from=embed

    perhaps she should look into writing soft core spy novels?

  142. avatar
    Rennie April 27, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    Poor Doc. Goes away for a couple of days and FOOM!

  143. avatar
    Lupin April 27, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    G: Sadly, I agree with your points on that. In some ways, it comes across as an aquiescense for a black man to accept being held to a higher standard than any white person…

    What is is icky here is that we really learned nothing new/relevant that we didn’t know before. This is Obama agreeing to be humiliated purely to satisfy a crowd of lunatic bigots (who won’t be satisfied anyway).

    I understand the pragmatic considerations, higher ground, be above that sort of things, etc. but it does make me a little angry. (Not at Obama of course.)

  144. avatar
    Thrifty April 27, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    Holy cow! Obama released the long form? Talk about a game changer!

    Doc, I assume a full separate article about this will be forthcoming.

  145. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    another ABSTRACT

    !!!!!!

    FAKE FAKE FAKE !!!!!!

  146. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 10:08 am #

    HOLY COW!!
    OBAMA RELEASED ANOTHER FAKE !!!!

    the audacity of him….

    took three years to make this fake.

  147. avatar
    Lupin April 27, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    thefarleftView: FAKE FAKE FAKE !!!!!!

    Here is the real thing:

    http://ryanbarrett.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345259a469e201156fc23c7b970c-800wi

  148. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    Rennie: Poor Doc. Goes away for a couple of days and FOO

    Same thing happens to Jon Stewart.

  149. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    Lupin: What is is icky here is that we really learned nothing new/relevant that we didn’t know before. This is Obama agreeing to be humiliated purely to satisfy a crowd of lunatic bigots (who won’t be satisfied anyway).

    I understand the pragmatic considerations, higher ground, be above that sort of things, etc. but it does make me a little angry. (Not at Obama of course.)

    It makes me proud that President Obama would put the good of the country ahead of partisan gain.

  150. avatar
    Bovril April 27, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    Poor “Brain Deather”

    Admit it, you are a delusional LSOS with the intellectual capavity of a rabid weasel.

    Lets see shall we..

    Little teeny weeny bit at the bottom…..

    I certify this is a TRUE COPY or abstract of the record or file…..etc etc etc.

    It’s a photocopy, of the original AND ONLY record, onto security paper, signed by the custodian of records.

    There is NO space for a fathers signature so guess what no fathers siggie.

    You really are a muppet

  151. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    Yeah, the farleftview is a troll and not a true believer. The Nordyke twins’ certificates don’t have a father’s signature and his(her?) birth certificate probably doesn’t either.

  152. avatar
    Keith April 27, 2011 at 10:28 am #

    thefarleftView: FAKE FAKE FAKE

    fact 1 – NO SEAL

    see it it is FAKE !!!

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    Not a fake. Not a certificate.

    It is an uncertified copy of the original. It has been photocopied onto security paper, and Onaka has attested to its authenticity, but it is not certified.

    It is exactly what ‘we’ have been saying it would be if it ever came out.

  153. avatar
    Dave April 27, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    Found an obit for Dr. David A. Sinclair of Honolulu. He passed away in 2003 at the age of 81.

    http://archives.starbulletin.com/2003/08/24/news/obits.html

  154. avatar
    Viking (Phil Cave) April 27, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    I see the wingnuts are already claiming the newly released “long form” is a fake. To be expected.

  155. avatar
    sactosintolerant April 27, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    The forgery talk is obviously buzzing, but I especially like this comment from drkate’s blog:

    “It looks like they just used the information they had from the other stuff they put out and made yet another forgery.”

    Or maybe it confirms previously released info because it’s true… crazy concept!

  156. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    Dave: Found an obit for Dr. David A. Sinclair of Honolulu. He passed away in 2003 at the age of 81.
    http://archives.starbulletin.com/2003/08/24/news/obits.html

    He should consider himself lucky. The birthers can’t harass him.

  157. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    While I am disappointed that the President released it, (and even more disappointed that from what I understand they obtained a waiver from the state to get the document) I can understand wanting it out of the press quickly right now. It was nice as a distraction to point to how crazy the Republicans are while there wasn’t anything else particularly helpful for leading up to 2012, but right now letting the backlash against the Paul Ryan budget plan take center stage is more helpful rather than just pointing to those “crazy Republicans.” And while this will not statisfy the hard core birthers, it at least leaves them in the “really crazy catagory” to provide some value to point to the Republicans and say “do you really want these crazies running things?”

  158. avatar
    James M April 27, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    thefarleftView:

    FAKE FAKE FAKE !!!!!!

    Criminal conviction of Dr. Alvin Onaka, or you have nothing. The goalpost has been moved. Good luck.

  159. avatar
    Thrifty April 27, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    Scientist: He should consider himself lucky. The birthers can’t harass him.

    That didn’t stop them from going after Obama’s parents and grandparents, did it?

  160. avatar
    SvennyB April 27, 2011 at 10:38 am #

    I am not a “birther” i am English and have only heard of this story today. My question is though why does a paper birth certificate prove anything? This is the President if he wanted a fake birth certificate, he could get a fake birth certificate. If he wanted anything on gods earth he could get it. I really dont see how this will stop the birthers talking.
    Anyway what a sad state of affairs when this is what his opposition have resorted to. Who cares where he was born he was and still is the best man for the job

  161. avatar
    Thrifty April 27, 2011 at 10:38 am #

    Dave: Found an obit for Dr. David A. Sinclair of Honolulu. He passed away in 2003 at the age of 81.
    http://archives.starbulletin.com/2003/08/24/news/obits.html

    *dons Birther hat*

    2003 you say? What else was happening in 2003? Oh, a little man known as Barack HUSSEIN Obama was preparing a run for Senate. COINCIDENCE?????

    *doffs Birther hat*

  162. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 10:46 am #

    nemocapn: Same thing happens to Jon Stewart.

    LMAO! So true!

  163. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    SvennyB:
    I am not a “birther” i am English and have only heard of this story today. My question is though why does a paper birth certificate prove anything?

    The COLB President Obama released years ago proved something – this just makes bigoted conspiracy theorists look like bigoted conspiracy theorists

    This is the President if he wanted a fake birth certificate, he could get a fake birth certificate. If he wanted anything on gods earth he could get it. I really dont see how this will stop the birthers talking.

    You’re right – it wont, but it marginalizes them and inoculates others to their insanity.

    Anyway what a sad state of affairs when this is what his opposition have resorted to.

    I totally agree.

    Who cares where he was born he was and [he?] still is the best man for the job

    The birthers don’t care where he was born – they’re just grasping at straws to try and get the scary black man out of the White House. The only real offense they have against him is “Presidenting while black” (plus some associated crimes like “Presidenting while Democratic”…).

    You might look around at some of the discussions here to try to get a feel for this very American spectacle… (I don’t think there’s any way to explain it in simple terms).

  164. avatar
    Horus April 27, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    Time to move the goalposts again!

  165. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    JoZeppy: but right now letting the backlash against the Paul Ryan budget plan take center stage is more helpful rather than just pointing to those “crazy Republicans.” And while this will not statisfy the hard core birthers, it at least leaves them in the “really crazy catagory” to provide some value to point to the Republicans and say “do you really want these crazies running things?”

    Agreed. So far, there is already some evidence of a change in tone from the GOP.

    The news just mentioned a blurb that John Boehner has released a strongly worded statement saying something to the effect of “this issue was put to rest a long time ago”…

    Wow…a much different and more appropriate stance (finally) then their prior wind & nod weak statements of “I take him at his word”…

  166. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 10:56 am #

    nemocapn: Rennie: Poor Doc. Goes away for a couple of days and FOO

    Same thing happens to Jon Stewart.

    So who’s kicking and screaming and gnashing of teeth is louder? Stew-beef, our good Doctor, or the birtherstani?

    I think it was all the people who’s PayPal buttons’ value just collapsed… πŸ˜€

  167. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 10:59 am #

    Sef: Except that “8/4‘ is Aug 4, not Aug 8.

    Thanks for that very interesting info. Obama Sr., a “slippery” character…

    Bob

  168. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 11:00 am #

    G: Agreed.So far, there is already some evidence of a change in tone from the GOP.

    The news just mentioned a blurb that John Boehner has released a strongly worded statement saying something to the effect of “this issue was put to rest a long time ago”…

    Wow…a much different and more appropriate stance (finally) then their prior wind & nod weak statements of “I take him at his word”…

    I think that the White House understood the politics in this much better than we did (professional pols understand politics better than a bunch of people commenting on the interwebs – who woulda thunk it?).

  169. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 11:02 am #

    Slartibartfast: Once more you’re wrong Bobbie!Are you going to vote for President Obama now?

    Actually, not. They wanted it to go away so badly they finally released the original birth certificate. πŸ˜‰

    Bob

  170. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett April 27, 2011 at 11:02 am #

    And over at Whirled Nut Daily, Joey F is already calling this a victory.

    No shame whatsoever.

  171. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    Did you notice the numbers at the end of some of the fields? There’s a 9 after African and a 1 after Caucasian. Now maybe I’m reading too much into it, but I have a theory about what the numbers mean. The birthers have made a big to-do about “African” not being on this list on page 5-7 of this document:

    http://www.nber.org/vital-statistics/historical/nat61_1.CV.pdf

    “Births in the United States in 1961 are classified for vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian
    (combined), and ‘other nonwhite.'”

    So, if I were going to code these races for statistical purposes, I’d list them as:
    1. White
    2. Negro
    3. American Indian
    4. Chinese
    5. Japanese
    6. Aleut
    7. Eskimo
    8. Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian
    9. Other nonwhite

    Ann Dunham was listed as 1 white and Obama as 9 Other nonwhite. That’s just my theory.

  172. avatar
    Vince Treacy April 27, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    Doctor Conspiracy, Doctor Conspiracy, paging Doctor Conspiracy…..

  173. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    nemocapn: Ann Dunham was listed as 1 white and Obama as 9 Other nonwhite. That’s just my theory.

    Seems like a pretty good one to me…

  174. avatar
    ANT Pogo April 27, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    Dave:
    Found an obit for Dr. David A. Sinclair of Honolulu. He passed away in 2003 at the age of 81.

    http://archives.starbulletin.com/2003/08/24/news/obits.html

    Do you know what the best part is? Dr. Sinclair is the exact same OB/GYN who delivered Miki Booth’s son Alan!

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/04/27/has-the-white-house-has-released-obamas-long-from-birth-certificate/

  175. avatar
    bjphysics April 27, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    thefarleftView: FAKE FAKE FAKEno FATHER’s SIGNATUREhttp://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    I don’t see any box for father’s signature. Where do you see it?

  176. avatar
    Gregory April 27, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    Dave:
    Found an obit for Dr. David A. Sinclair of Honolulu. He passed away in 2003 at the age of 81.

    http://archives.starbulletin.com/2003/08/24/news/obits.html

    I believe that the fact that all the major players are dead (in this case, Obama’s mother, father, step-dad and so forth) is a necessary ingredient to sustain any conspiracy theory. After all, the dead can no longer speak up for themselves and refute the nonsense with their first-hand accounts.

    Or consider another example: the primary reason why JFK assassination conspiracy theories gained so much more traction than, say, comparable MLK or RFK assassination conspiracy theories – is due to the fact that the convicted assassin in each of the latter two cases – lived or is in fact still alive – many years after the event.

  177. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 11:18 am #

    Rickey: To anyone but a confirmed birther, it is clear that Mr. Wisch was talking about getting an actual birth certificate – i.e., a state-certified document which can be used as legal proof of birth. It is possible to get an uncertified photocopy of a long-form birth certificate, but a photocopy of a birth certificate is not a birth certificate. It is no longer possible to get a certified copy of a long-form birth certificate in Hawaii.

    Incidentally, remember your anonymous poster who claimed to be able to get a New York State long-form birth certificate through VitalChek? I asked VitalChek about that a week ago, and thus far they have been unable to confirm that they can get my long form New York birth certificate for me.

    I can’t remember the one from New York state. I remember the case from NYC where it was possible.
    Try what worked for Whatever4 from PA. Call NY state health dept. by phone. Say you want to do a genealogical search on your background and want the fuller data that’s on the long form. It might help to say you want the “complete birth record” as what worked for Whatever4.

    Bob

  178. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    Majority Will:
    Does this mean Robert Clark will vote for Obama now or NC1 will admit she was wrong and apologize?

    Any birther apologies or admissions that this conspiracy was B.S. all along?

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-correspondence.pdf

    http://twitpic.com/4q47pm

    I think it’s fair to say nobody who is a birther is a fan of Obama. They wouldn’t agree with his policies under any circumstances. Sure, I would vote for him if he changed his economic outlook.

    Bob

  179. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    ANT Pogo: Do you know what the best part is?Dr. Sinclair is the exact same OB/GYN who delivered Miki Booth’s son Alan!

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/04/27/has-the-white-house-has-released-obamas-long-from-birth-certificate/

    Great catch!

  180. avatar
    Thrifty April 27, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    Robert Clark: I think it’s fair to say nobody who is a birther is a fan of Obama. They wouldn’t agree with his policies under any circumstances. Sure, I would vote for him if he changed his economic outlook.

    That’s not what Majority Will asked. He asked if you would admit that the conspiracy theory was nonsense.

  181. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 11:24 am #

    Robert Clark: Actually, not. They wanted it to go away so badly they finally released the original birth certificate.

    Bob

    But aren’t you petrified of “them”?

    What now, blob? You were a petulant and colicky toddler over the original information.

    Did you get the dirt you were fantasizing and salivating over? Are you going to track down the minutiae and stalk every detail like a crazed political enemy with OCD and no other reason to live?

  182. avatar
    Joey April 27, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    Viking (Phil Cave):
    I see the wingnuts are already claiming the newly released “long form” is a fake.To be expected.

    My quick perusal of birther websites shows that the focus of birthers is now on: “AFRICAN” as Barack Obama Senior’s race (that old bromide) and the difference in appearance of the Nordyke Twins’ birth certificates from Obama’s. Whether what Obama released was “new” or “original” and regurgitation of the non-sequenced registration numbers with the Nordyke Twins’ numbers and the “date filed” versus “date accepted” “conspiracy.”

  183. avatar
    ellid April 27, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    Of course the birthers think it’s a fake. As I’ve said before and will say again, the average birther wouldn’t accept a time and date stamped film of Ann Dunham giving birth to the future President on the beach in Honolulu with Diamond Head clearly visible in the background while Don Ho sings “Tiny Bubbles” and a hula dancer entertains at a luau. Their minds are made up and cannot be distracted by facts.

  184. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    Robert Clark: I think it’s fair to say nobody who is a birther is a fan of Obama. They wouldn’t agree with his policies under any circumstances. Sure, I would vote for him if he changed his economic outlook.

    Bob

    How about an admission that the nefarious, game changing, administration wrecking, personal dirt on the President of the United States you were obsessively hungering, clamoring, begging, demanding and incessantly whining for was not on the original birth certificate?

    C’mon, blob. Do it.

  185. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    Robert Clark: Actually, not. They wanted it to go away so badly they finally released the original birth certificate.

    Bob

    They didn’t want it to go away – they made it go away. The birthers are done. There is no longer any chance (not that it was ever more than 1 in a gajillion…) that President Obama will be found ineligible or kept off of any state ballots (or that the birther movement will have any negative impact for President Obama on voters in 2012. You guys kept clamoring to play with the big boys – well, the big boys just cleaned your clock and you’re too stupid to understand that you’ve been beaten. You’re like a noob playing a grandmaster thinking about how well your strategy is going without realizing that your opponent’s last move was ‘checkmate’.

  186. avatar
    y_p_w April 27, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    Keith: Not a fake. Not a certificate.

    It is an uncertified copy of the original. It has been photocopied onto security paper, and Onaka has attested to its authenticity, but it is not certified.

    It is exactly what we’ have been saying it would be if it ever came out.

    I can make out where the seal is.

    Yeah JoZeppy – I would guess that they sent a nice letter on White House stationery that clearly stated what reasons they needed it for, along with the $10 and perhaps special instructions for its delivery, along with permission for the Dept of Health to publicly disclose that they issued the document. I (an others) have thought from reading of Hawaii’s statutes that it would be the current health director’s call as to make an exception to their standard procedures.

    I hope that this release doesn’t inundate the Dept of Health with similar requests. This may be a one-shot request.

  187. avatar
    Joey April 27, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    In case anyone doesn’t know or doesn’t remember the state of Hawaii’s response to the “African” as father’s race myth on the Obama birth documents, in August of 2008, factcheck.org addressed the issue thusly: “Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn’t tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama’s father’s race listed as “African”? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father’s race and mother’s race are supplied by the parents, and that “we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be.” We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as “African.” It’s certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.”

  188. avatar
    y_p_w April 27, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    OK – further reading seems to indicate that President Obama sent his own lawyer to Honolulu to pick it up. I always suspected that he could call in such a favor (and the Hawaii Dept of Health might just do it to try and reduce all the birther inquiries).

    I’m somewhat sad that he did this. The sideshow was interesting.

  189. avatar
    y_p_w April 27, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    USA Today article mentions why Hawaii did it….

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/04/obama-releases-birth-records/1?csp=hf

    **quote**
    Obama had to make a formal request for certified copies of his birth certificate because, normally, the Hawaii health department only generates computer copies. Loretta J. Fuddy, the Hawaii health director, wrote Obama that her department would make an exception, given “your status as President of the United States.”

    Fuddy also wrote Obama that she hopes the release “will end the numerous inquiries” received by her office. “Such inquiries have been disruptive to staff operations and have strained state resources,” she wrote.
    **unquote**

  190. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    Thrifty: That’s not what Majority Will asked.He asked if you would admit that the conspiracy theory was nonsense.

    Actually, Will was asking NC1 to say there was no conspiracy. I didn’t think there was a conspiracy. I just couldn’t understand the reason for not releasing it beforehand.

    Bob

  191. avatar
    ellen April 27, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    Today’s news is that Obama has released copies of his long-form BC.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/apr/27/

    The original birth certificate says exactly the same things as the COLB, which is the official birth certificate. And it does not have anything on it that is embarrassing, and it says the name of the hospital that Obama has always said (and his sister too. UPI got it wrong in one article, but she also always said Kapiolani), and that was also the name of the hospital given by the former governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle.

    A scan of WND shows that they are doing what we expected, switching to other claims. They are now raising the issue of whether Obama was adopted in Indonesia (He wasn’t as a call to the Indonesian Embassy will confirm) and the two-fer myth that to be a Natural Born Citizen requires two US citizen parents (also false).

  192. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    y_p_w: USA Today article mentions why Hawaii did it….http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/04/obama-releases-birth-records/1?csp=hf**quote**Obama had to make a formal request for certified copies of his birth certificate because, normally, the Hawaii health department only generates computer copies. Loretta J. Fuddy, the Hawaii health director, wrote Obama that her department would make an exception, given “your status as President of the United States.”Fuddy also wrote Obama that she hopes the release “will end the numerous inquiries” received by her office. “Such inquiries have been disruptive to staff operations and have strained state resources,” she wrote.**unquote**

    I have to say, I do find it rather distasteful that a waiver was given due to his “status as President of the United States.” I can understand why it was done, but I’m personally a fan of the concept of equality before the law.

  193. avatar
    Bovril April 27, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    And for the terminally stupid Birfoon who brings the “African” one up, looky looky here be the admin details for filling out the 1962 Kenyan cenus….

    Kenya, that would be where BO Snr was born…..

    No “Negro”…a purely and solely US designation…..he weould identify as ….African.

    http://www.hist.umn.edu/~rmccaa/IPUMSI/CensusForms/Africa/ke1962ef_kenya_enumeration_forms.en.pdf

  194. avatar
    Arthur April 27, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    As anyone familiar with this website knows, the release of the President’s long-form birth certificate will have little effect on the birther “Weltanschauung.” Mr. Obama is their “ewige Jude,” and in their eyes he will always be a usurper. The goal posts have been moved but the game goes on, absent of reason and ripe with malice.

  195. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    y_p_w: I’m somewhat sad that he did this. The sideshow was interesting.

    You’re assuming the sideshow has ended? It has just become more wierd. Just look at the birther clamouring to claim it’s a forgery, shifting to the B.S. Vattel claims, just as was predicted by everyone who responded to the “why doesn’t he just release it and end this” protestations.

  196. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    Robert Clark: I just couldn’t understand the reason for not releasing it beforehand.

    Do you understand the reason now?

  197. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    fact #3 proving this BC release is fake fake fake

    “Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital and according to the information there, the name of the hospital at the time of his birth should have been Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital. According to the web site the name didn’t change to Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital until Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital merged with Kapiolani Maternity Home in 1978. So how could his official long form birth certificate that was generated in 1961 have the name of the hospital that wasn’t created until 1978?”

  198. avatar
    Gregory April 27, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    JoZeppy: You’re assuming the sideshow has ended?It has just become more wierd.Just look at the birther clamouring to claim it’s a forgery, shifting to the B.S. Vattel claims, just as was predicted by everyone who responded to the “why doesn’t he just release it and end this” protestations.

    Yes, but the carpet has clearly been pulled right out from under the Birthers. They lose their main rallying cry – that the president could simply end this entire controversy by releasing the “long-form” birth certificate. Now that the President has done exactly that – any further arguments (about dual citizenship, or his academic records) either have nothing to do with what the President does – or have nothing to do with the qualifications to be President in the first place. So Birtherism as a “movement” really has lost all traction.

  199. avatar
    ANT Pogo April 27, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    thefarleftView:
    fact #3 proving this BC release is fake fake fake

    “Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital and according to the information there, the name of the hospital at the time of his birth should have been Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital. According to the web site the name didn’t change to Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital until Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital merged with Kapiolani Maternity Home in 1978. So how could his official long form birth certificate that was generated in 1961 have the name of the hospital that wasn’t created until 1978?”

    So, who forged the certificates of the Nordyke twins, born the day after Obama was, then?

    http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/antpogo/M1139416728.jpg

    Note the name of the hospital listed there…

  200. avatar
    Bovril April 27, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    So your now saying the Nordyke BC which you held onto for so long is ALSO fake as guess what hospital is on their records..

    Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecologi-cal Hospital

    FAIL

  201. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    thefarleftView:
    fact #3 proving this BC release is fake fake fake

    “Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital and according to the information there, the name of the hospital at the time of his birth should have been Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital. According to the web site the name didn’t change to Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital until Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital merged with Kapiolani Maternity Home in 1978. So how could his official long form birth certificate that was generated in 1961 have the name of the hospital that wasn’t created until 1978?”

    I don’t remember you raising this issue about the Nordyke twins’ certificates. They also claim to have been born at Kapiolani.

    I guess WND is in on the conspiracy?

  202. avatar
    Gregory April 27, 2011 at 12:05 pm #

    JoZeppy: I have to say, I do find it rather distasteful that a waiver was given due to his “status as President of the United States.”I can understand why it was done, but I’m personally a fan of the concept of equality before the law.

    It’s not a question of equality before the law (after all, what “law” is being violated here?). Anyone born in Hawaii may obtain the same kind of document that the President has – if they are able make a strong enough case. So the issue is simply a question of office protocol. And if public servants are too hidebound by bureaucratic rules, and are not allowed to make these kind of judgment calls, then they are not going to be able to serve the public interest.

  203. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 12:06 pm #

    “generated in 1961 have the name of the hospital that wasn’t created until 1978?””
    the Nordyke twins 1961 BC shows Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital, my daughters 1965 BC shows Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital, your brain shows brain damage.

  204. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    Gregory: I believe that the fact that all the major players are dead (in this case, Obama’s mother, father, step-dad and so forth) is a necessary ingredient to sustain any conspiracy theory.

    Actually the fact that the 2 signers are dead, allows the claims of “Fake” to be definitively ruled out. The signatures can be compared with known signatures of Ms Dunham and Dr Sinclair, who being dead souln’t possibly have signed it in the last 3 years.

    JoZeppy: Just look at the birther clamouring to claim it’s a forgery, shifting to the B.S. Vattel claims, just as was predicted by everyone who responded to the “why doesn’t he just release it and end this” protestations.

    While the hard-core birthers will continue, I don’t see any of those claims having any traction among the voting public.

  205. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    more on the fake BC

    Very poor quality forgery. Enlarge it and see the white blocks around most of the data. Now every document I’ve seen that was typed on security paper, the security background doesn’t disappear. In fact, that’s the very reason the security background is there so you can see if it’s been altered. Enlarge Barack’ and you’ll see it’s printed on a solid white background an then laid onto the security paper.
    Just to satisfy the non believers, take a check, write a name on it the see if that made the security background disappear. If it did, the bank won’t cash it.
    I could easily point out dozens of problems, but look at the K in Kansas. where did the top of it go? The K in Kenya is fine. Look at the R in BARACK on line 1a, what happened to it? Then look at the R in the same word on line 8. Change typewriters?
    Look at the bottom solid black line, why did it not print on the security marks but removed them. all white background.
    I hope they didn’t actually pay for this forgery, if so they got ripped off.
    Remember in Obama’s book where he said he found his original birth certificate and saw his birth weight? Where is that exactly?

  206. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 12:09 pm #

    The signatures can be compared with known signatures of Ms Dunham and Dr Sinclair, who being dead souln’t possibly have signed it in the last 3 years.

    >>>anyone can photoshop sigs these days…..

  207. avatar
    Bovril April 27, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    Lets see what else

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5781901

    (Antepartum cervical cerclage operations. Analysis at Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital from 1957 through 1966.)

    http://jmg.bmj.com/content/7/2/118.extract

    (Journal of Medical Gentics)

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6043677

    Rupture of the uterus. A sixteen year evaluation at Kapiolani maternity and Gynecological Hospital.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14255066

    OUTLINE OF A PROPOSED PROGRAM FOR DEVELOPMENT OF A MEDICAL CENTER FOR KAPIOLANI MATERNITY & GYNECOLOGICAL HOSPITAL, KAUIKEOLANI CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL, AND THE QUEEN’S HOSPITAL, HONOLULU

    Next

  208. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 12:11 pm #

    Arthur: the President’s long-form birth certificate will have little effect on the birther “Weltanschauung.” Mr. Obama is their “ewige Jude,”

    Exactly. Cue ‘Soros is behind this,’ in 3,2,1…

    Of course we’re behind it. We control everything.

  209. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 12:12 pm #

    thefarleftView: Remember in Obama’s book where he said he found his original birth certificate and saw his birth weight?

    What is the page number of that book?

  210. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:14 pm #

    Farleft,

    Why don’t you take a few hours to process this information and sort out your thoughts. You’re letting through some real crud. You want us to believe that the hospital name’s wrong – the one that’s in the Nordykes’ certs?

    Go lay down. Come back when you can answer how a forgery came directly from the DOH with Alvin Onaka’s signature and accompanying documentation explaining how an exception was being made to release it.

    Literally everyone in the Hawaiian government is in on the conspiracy, right?

  211. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    “generated in 1961 have the name of the hospital that wasn’t created until 1978?””
    .
    Though this is really silly and esily debunked, this has become the Berfestani talking point, which highlights the intellectual level of Berferstan residents. Tell us more”theFarLeftView”, we enjoy the humor!

  212. avatar
    Bovril April 27, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    Cretin

    Photocopying or scanning a document printed on security paper makes elements around the words go, thats why it’s called security paper.

    To use your asinine example, go to your on line back account, and pull up the statement with the scanned checks in it…..guess what, the security paper patterns on the check are gone.

    You really are stupid

  213. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 12:18 pm #

    thefarleftView: who being dead souln’t possibly have signed it in the last 3 years.
    >>>anyone can photoshop sigs these days

    Yes. ALL documents submitted by ANY candidate are forgeries. All future elections are hereby cancelled.

  214. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    So, is this the end of Squeeky being a birther? She said on Western Journalism that she’d be satisfied if he presented an uncertified long form as long as it wasn’t signed by someone ridiculous like Peter Rabbit.

  215. avatar
    The Magic M April 27, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    Unfortunately the Stalinist moderation at the Pest and eFail won’t let me reply to your identical post there…

    > Now every document I’ve seen that was typed on security paper, the security background doesn’t disappear. In fact, that’s the very reason the security background is there so you can see if it’s been altered.

    This document was obviously photocopied *onto* modern security paper as seen by the fold on the left.

    > I could easily point out dozens of problems, but look at the K in Kansas. where did the top of it go? The K in Kenya is fine. Look at the R in BARACK on line 1a, what happened to it? Then look at the R in the same word on line 8. Change typewriters?

    No, a page from a book put on a photocopier.

    > Remember in Obama’s book where he said he found his original birth certificate and saw his birth weight? Where is that exactly?

    Obama was obviously referring to his “souvenir BC” (you know, the one that the Donald showed first). It would contain information not on the official BC.

  216. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    nemocapn: Do you understand the reason now?

    Actually, no. It could have been released from the get go.

    Bob

  217. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    thefarleftView:
    more on the fake BC

    Very poor quality forgery. Enlarge it and see the white blocks around most of the data. Now every document I’ve seen that was typed on security paper, the security background doesn’t disappear. In fact, that’s the very reason the security background is there so you can see if it’s been altered. Enlarge Barack’ and you’ll see it’s printed on a solid white background an then laid onto the security paper.
    Just to satisfy the non believers, take a check, write a name on it the see if that made the security background disappear. If it did, the bank won’t cash it.
    I could easily point out dozens of problems, but look at the K in Kansas. where did the top of it go? The K in Kenya is fine. Look at the R in BARACK on line 1a, what happened to it? Then look at the R in the same word on line 8. Change typewriters?
    Look at the bottom solid black line, why did it not print on the security marks but removed them. all white background.
    I hope they didn’t actually pay for this forgery, if so they got ripped off.
    Remember in Obama’s book where he said he found his original birth certificate and saw his birth weight? Where is that exactly?

    Isn’t that cute – farleftview is trying to Polarik the long form. He thinks he’s people!

    By the way, is Trump going to release his tax records now?

  218. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    in response to Obama’s release, the Berferstans have been advised to just make stuff up,
    .
    so we see “the FarLeftView” stating “Remember in Obama’s book where he said he found his original birth certificate and saw his birth weight?”
    .
    Doesn’t he realize the book is readily available to check. What a Dip____!
    .
    Trump goes bankrupt so do these made up stories.
    .
    come on TheFarLeftView make up some more, it’s fun!

  219. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:25 pm #

    Robert Clark: Actually, no. It could have been released from the get go.

    Bob

    You admit that it won’t change a single mind and you still insist you can’t figure out why it wasn’t released before?

    I’m trying to figure out if you’re that dumb or if you think we are!

  220. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    compare the two
    http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/antpogo/M1139416728.jpg

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    pretty obvious which one is fake
    so much for person who tried to explain why a birth on SATURDAY has a earlier
    cert number than one on FRIDAY NITE?

    obviously they lifted and photoshoped the information from other documents
    FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE

    only clue……..a stamp on a green fake background ?? come on people
    this is elementary forensics…..pretty obvious fake job

    look and compare to the twins BC, anyone with a BRAIN can see it

    believe what you want, but this is clearly a forgery
    either one or the other, you pick

    the Hawaii state seal is pretty evident on one copy, the black/white, but not
    on the green blob fake…..I don’t see it, do you ???

  221. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    thefarleftView: fact #3 proving this BC release is fake fake fake

    Take some Xanax and Prozac.

  222. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Gregory: It’s not a question of equality before the law (after all, what “law” is being violated here?). Anyone born in Hawaii may obtain the same kind of document that the President has – if they are able make a strong enough case. So the issue is simply a question of office protocol. And if public servants are too hidebound by bureaucratic rules, and are not allowed to make these kind of judgment calls, then they are not going to be able to serve the public interest.

    Simple question, when was the last time the state of Hawaii has released a certified copy of the long form on security paper? I disagree that anyone in Hawaii can obtain the same document. That’s been the whole point up until now. Hawaii does not release that form any more. They made an exception for the President, BECAUSE he is the President. For that reason, I think it is inappropriate.

  223. avatar
    The Magic M April 27, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    ellid:
    Of course the birthers think it’s a fake.As I’ve said before and will say again, the average birther wouldn’t accept a time and date stamped film of Ann Dunham giving birth to the future President on the beach in Honolulu with Diamond Head clearly visible in the background while Don Ho sings “Tiny Bubbles” and a hula dancer entertains at a luau.Their minds are made up and cannot be distracted by facts.

    Well, don’t you know Don Ho and the hula dancers were on their “Kenya 1961” tour when that film was taken? Don Ho never denied it, so it must be true! And everyone knows Kenya copied Diamond Head in their famous “Hawaii World” entertainment park in Mombasa, stupid!

  224. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    thefarleftView:
    The signatures can be compared with known signatures of Ms Dunham and Dr Sinclair, who being dead souln’t possibly have signed it in the last 3 years.

    >>>anyone can photoshop sigs these days…..

    Why would they have made a mistake in the signature if they were forging it? Note mom’s signature is “Ann Dunham Obama” with “(Stanley)” signed above that (in the same handwriting).

    Why would Alvin Onaka have certified this as “a true copy or abstract” if it was forged? Why would the DOH have put their credibility on the line by seining correspondence saying they were releasing THIS long form?

  225. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    Robert Clark: Actually, Will was asking NC1 to say there was no conspiracy. I didn’t think there was a conspiracy. I just couldn’t understand the reason for not releasing it beforehand.

    Bob

    That’s a load of b.s. You’re lying. You implied the President might be adopted. You implied the letter from the President congratulating his birth hospital was a lie.

    You’ve been hungering for political dirt on the original form to smear the President and show utter disrespect for his family, living and deceased, since you slimed your first post here.

    Robert Clark April 25, 2011 at 1:09 pm (Quote) #
    There are no photos of Ann Dunham pregnant with Barack.
    Could Obama be adopted?
    Could we do DNA testing on the Dunham family and the Obama Sr. family to see Barack is related to either of them?

    “Bob”

  226. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    Robert Clark: Actually, no. It could have been released from the get go.

    Bob

    Stubborn–just like Obama. Well, maybe more, because Obama eventually gave in.

  227. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    advise to thefarleftview:
    if you want your family and kids to stop making fun of you, you should drop this topic. It strongly implies you have serious mental problems. Either that or you are applying for a job at “the Onion”!

  228. avatar
    Wild Bill H April 27, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    “Those with a right to it, may request a copy of their long form Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii through a freedom of information request. However, what they receive is not a certified copy and not a recognized legal document.”

    So…he suddenly turns up with an uncertified long-form…you know that form that Hawaii doesn’t, under any circumstances, issue anymore.

    Did he obtain this form illegally? And exactly what scam is he trying to pull? It says right here on this website (Doc’s) that it is not certified and not a legal document. Humm….

    Funny story! I ran over to my neighbors this morning to share the news with her. I said let’s have a cup of coffee and chat! She was dubious to say the least. As soon as she sat that cup of coffee in front of me, I sat a printed copy of Obama’s uncertified long-form.

    I literally thought she was going to have a heart attack. She has been droning on and on at me for months that he absolutely couldn’t get it……you know, how Hawaii kept saying we don’t issue those and even the Prez couldn’t get it if he wanted it, which he doesn’t.

    LMAO – I thought I was going to fall out of my chair I was laughing so hard! She was so disappointed. Then….she got mad! OMG, what did I do? Her face got red and she puffed up and started screaming at me. “What a freaking loser, what a liar, what a fraud”….what???? who, me? NO!!! It seems she is terribly upset with Obama for having led her to believe he couldn’t, under any circumstances, release his long-form…..yet – – – – he did.

    She was so irate, I left. I’m wondering how long it will take her to calm down?!?!?

  229. avatar
    Gregory April 27, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    JoZeppy: Simple question,when was the last time the state of Hawaii has released a certified copy of the long form on security paper?I disagree that anyone in Hawaii can obtain the same document.That’s been the whole point up until now.Hawaii does not release that form any more.They made an exception for the President, BECAUSE he is the President.For that reason, I think it is inappropriate.

    I don’t know how often the Director makes these kind of exceptions. But as the written correspondence between the Director and the President makes clear, the Director has the legal authority to make them.

  230. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    Majority Will: That’s a load of b.s. You’re lying. You implied the President might be adopted. You implied the letter from the President congratulating his birth hospital was a lie.

    You’ve been hungering for political dirt on the original form to smear the President and show utter disrespect for his family, living and deceased, since you slimed your first post here.

    Robert Clark April 25, 2011 at 1:09 pm(Quote) #
    There are no photos of Ann Dunham pregnant with Barack.
    Could Obama be adopted?
    Could we do DNA testing on the Dunham family and the Obama Sr. family to see Barack is related to either of them?

    That’s the point. There was nothing in this birth certificate that couldn’t have been released from the get go.

    Bob

  231. avatar
    Wild Bill H April 27, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    Greg:

    Why would Alvin Onaka have certified this as “a true copy or abstract” if it was forged? Why would the DOH have put their credibility on the line by seining correspondence saying they were releasing THIS long form?

    You’re mistaken….it’s not a certified copy. There is no stamp or seal for a reason. Their website says specifically, it’s not a certified copy and would not serve as a legal document.

  232. avatar
    Wild Bill H April 27, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    And on second thought….as I am sitting her typing away – I’m wondering just who in the world she is going to vote for in 2012.

    I’ll let you know, when I know. :))))

  233. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    Greg: You admit that it won’t change a single mind and you still insist you can’t figure out why it wasn’t released before?

    I’m trying to figure out if you’re that dumb or if you think we are!

    No, I don’t agree it won’t change a single persons mind. I mentioned those polls showing a large number of people don’t know one way or the other if was born here or not. This can definitely change some of their minds.

    Bob

  234. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    Where was that link someone posted with an audio from Kapiolani hospital that Obama was born there?

    Bob

  235. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    You’re mistaken….it’s not a certified copy. There is no stamp or seal for a reason. Their website says specifically, it’s not a certified copy and would not serve as a legal document.

    I’m looking at a copy of the document and it has Alvin Onaka’s signature above a statement that he “certifies” that it is a “true copy or abstract.” That signature is dated April 25, 2011. That is sufficient, legally, for the document to be a self-authenticating, “certified,” copy under the Federal Rules of Evidence.

  236. avatar
    Gregory April 27, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Wild Bill H: You’re mistaken….it’s not a certified copy.There is no stamp or seal for a reason.Their website says specifically, it’s not a certified copy and would not serve as a legal document.

    Greg is correct. The President produced a certified copy (actually, he obtained two certified copies of his birth certificate) – complete with seal and signature. I quote from the Director’s mail to the President:

    “Enclosed please find two certified copies of your original Certificate of Live Birth.”

  237. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    Robert Clark: No, I don’t agree it won’t change a single persons mind.

    So, it was a different Robert Clark who said:

    Robert Clark: I think it’s fair to say nobody who is a birther is a fan of Obama. They wouldn’t agree with his policies under any circumstances.

  238. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    Greg: I’m looking at a copy of the document and it has Alvin Onaka’s signature above a statement that he “certifies” that it is a “true copy or abstract.” That signature is dated April 25, 2011. That is sufficient, legally, for the document to be a self-authenticating, “certified,” copy under the Federal Rules of Evidence.

    Just splitting hairs here, but from what I understand of the document, it’s admissible in court as a self-authenticating document (FRE 902(2)), but not acceptable for all purposes, lacking the raised seal (i.e. would not be acceptable for the purposes of obtaining a passport).

  239. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    “Hawaii’s response to the “African” as father’s race myth on the Obama birth documents”
    .
    No Kenyan would ever use the Anrican term “Negro”, for example here are instructions to Kenyans on how to fill in race on the Kenyan census:
    note under #5 “African” as a race
    Column 5. Race.-Write European, Arab, Somali or African, etc. Asians must write Indian or Pakistan.
    link: http://www.hist.umn.edu/~rmccaa/IPUMSI/CensusForms/Africa/ke1962ef_kenya_enumeration_forms.en.pdf
    .
    so dear birther knock off the complaints on “African” as a race (espicially Oraly)

  240. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    Actually going back to that, does…FRE 902(2) still requires that the offical sigining has to certify under seal that the signer has the official capacity, and the signature is genuine….so am I missing something?

  241. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    a certification of a fake
    still doesn’t make the (original) fake
    legal or otherwise acceptable………

    just because someone stamps it doesn’t mean it’s official

    the fact remains, the original has no seal on it, so what is he certifying?

    that it is a fake ???? he stamped a photoshoped faked, that all it is. Anyone
    can be fooled, as proven by American people electing this fake in first place.

    the fact remains obama is gaming us all and begs more questions:
    – why send an officer to jail, when he could have resolved this issue earlier?
    – why spend millions of tax dollars fighting these lawsuits when he could have
    released ALL HIS RECORDS?
    – why spin this on birth certificate when the real issue is NBC? and obama knows it,
    he is a liar and spinster playing politics with our constitution

  242. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    No Kenyan would ever use the Anrican term “Negro”,

    >>>Obama wasn’t even in the USA when OBAMA was borne, he was still back in KENYA so he could never have objected, I don’t see his signature anywhere on the obviously fake green blob reproduced here.

  243. avatar
    Thrifty April 27, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    thefarleftView: the fact remains, the original has no seal on it, so what is he certifying?

    The long form released today has no seal, so it’s a fake.

    The COLB released 3 years ago has a seal, but it’s a fake.

    It’s nice that Birthers have some new hole to wriggle into for every circumstance.

    I’m assuming that TFLV is not a Christian, because no Christian would so glaringly and repeatedly violate one of the ten commandments and endlessly lie.

  244. avatar
    Daniel April 27, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Well we predicted that morons like thefarleftview would be claiming that the “long form” was fake, even if the POTUS did release it…. and true to form, we were right.

    No evidence is enough, when you really, reeeeeeeeeeeeelly need to hate having a black president.

  245. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    thefarleftView: a certification of a fakestill doesn’t make the (original) fakelegal or otherwise acceptable………just because someone stamps it doesn’t mean it’s officialthe fact remains, the original has no seal on it, so what is he certifying?that it is a fake ???? he stamped a photoshoped faked, that all it is. Anyonecan be fooled, as proven by American people electing this fake in first place.the fact remains obama is gaming us all and begs more questions:- why send an officer to jail, when he could have resolved this issue earlier?- why spend millions of tax dollars fighting these lawsuits when he could havereleased ALL HIS RECORDS?- why spin this on birth certificate when the real issue is NBC? and obama knows it,he is a liar and spinster playing politics with our constitution

    Dude…get help. It’s over. All your protestations are even more meaningless now then ever before. You have no evidence it was fake, just like you never had any evidence to show he was born anywhere but Hawaii.

    An office went to prison because he refused to follow a lawful direct order. Obama had nothing to do with.

    Obama never spent millions of dollars, tax payer or personal, fighting pathetic birther law suits.

    And birthers are still dead wrong on the NBC issue. All people in the reality based community know it.

  246. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Greg: So, it was a different Robert Clark who said:

    Couldn’t have been that different; they were posted within a few minutes of each other.
    I don’t think those people polled in the surveys who answered “Don’t know” qualify as birthers. I am saying the release of the original birth certificate may allow them to have a more positive, affirmative answer to the question.

    Bob

  247. avatar
    RetiredLawyer April 27, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    Actually,

    1. Soft-core birthers are going to need a few days/weeks/months before they can really accept that they’ve been mistaken and played. Immediate reaction are going to blame anyone they can think of. Which is why all of the “it could have been released earlier” is being voiced. Of course it could have been released earlier, and the birthers would have not looked like fools. And, my child when she was six acted the same way.

    2. Most really hard core birthers are going to go on to the next meme “two citizen parents” or “lost citizenship when adopted” or whatever.

    Since there are relatively few soft-core birthers, the hard-core ones are going to be isolated even by the republicans; the soft-core ones are going to be somewhat isolated, and the democrates have — again — out thought the republicans.

  248. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    One point about a raised seal–part of the purpose of using a raised seal is that it doesn’t scan or photocopy well. That’s intentional. They don’t want some clueless person to see a photocopied seal on a document and think, “Oh, that has a seal. I can accept this document as proof.” That’s the reason you see warnings on some vital records not to accept the document without a raised seal.

    Just because we can’t see the seal doesn’t mean it isn’t there. The first COLB should tell us that. The correspondence on the White House site says Obama requested “certified copies.”

  249. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    thefarleftView: the fact remains, the original has no seal on it, so what is he certifying?

    He told you what he was certifying. That it is a “true and accurate copy or abstract” of the record on file with the Department of Health.

    In other words, every single jot, every single tittle on there is correct, true and accurate!

    I guess you believe that every member of the Hawaiian administration is a liar and in on the forgery, right?

    thefarleftView: why spin this on birth certificate when the real issue is NBC?

    Did Trump ask for the release of the Founder’s diaries which showed they quoted Blackstone 18 times as often as Vattel? No. He asked for the release of Obama’s birth certificate.

    thefarleftView: Obama wasn’t even in the USA when OBAMA was borne, he was still back in KENYA so he could never have objected, I don’t see his signature anywhere on the obviously fake green blob reproduced here.

    Just making stuff up now?

    1. Obama Sr. was in the USA when Jr. was born. There are no records of Obama Sr. leaving the country. There are records of Obama Sr. being in summer school when Jr. was born.
    2. There is a blank for the signature of a PARENT, not for mother AND father. There is no room for a second signature if mother has signed.

    You are sounding awfully desperate. Maybe you should take my advice and let this sink in before trying to respond.

  250. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    thefarleftView: he is a liar and spinster

    A spinster, or old maid, is an older, childless woman who has never been married.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinster

    Wrong – he’s male, married and has two children. You can’t get anything right.

  251. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    nemocapn: One point about a raised seal–part of the purpose of using a raised seal is that it doesn’t scan or photocopy well. That’s intentional. They don’t want some clueless person to see a photocopied seal on a document and think, “Oh, that has a seal. I can accept this document as proof.” That’s the reason you see warnings on some vital records not to accept the document without a raised seal. Just because we can’t see the seal doesn’t mean it isn’t there. The first COLB should tell us that. The correspondence on the White House site says Obama requested “certified copies.”

    I’ve been hearing mixed stories as to whether the state has applied a raised seal or not. Has there been any confirmation one way or the other? While it makes sense that if they’re going through the trouble of making a waiver of rules to issue something on security paper, and stamp it, why not go balls out and put the raised seal on it. But someone also said that the state said it’s not an official document? Not sure what the story is (not that it matters, since the COLB was sufficient for all purposes anyway).

  252. avatar
    Foggy April 27, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Special show tonight of RC Radio 9 pm Eastern!

  253. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Some serious advise for theFarLeftView
    Get Mental Help, don’t let your illness destroy your family and your life, here’s a good referral service on Mental Health Professionals, you need to go there:
    http://www.njmentalhealthcares.org/

  254. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    BO BS BC composed of multiple layers and elements…..can anyone say
    PHOTOSHOPPED ??

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2711307/posts

  255. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    Robert Clark: That’s the point. There was nothing in this birth certificate that couldn’t have been released from the get go.

    Bob

    You implied that there was.

    You implied he was adopted. You implied that he had a different father. That there was a cover up involving a scandalous teen pregnancy. You clamored for photos of his pregnant mother. You implied that the President’s mother was a whore. YOU “floated” this “common theory” here.

    Your sickening, hypocritical little dance of deceit and petulant refusal of culpability is fooling no one except other mentally and ethically challenged birthers.

    You are refusing to take responsibility for your FUD campaign of smears.

    I am not all surprised that you are still spineless.

    Robert Clark April 25, 2011 at 3:51 pm (Quote) #
    Everyone’s favorite non-birther Hawaii state senator Sam Slom suggests Obama may have had a different father:

    Hawaii senator questions Obama’s true birth father
    There is information, for reasons known only to him, he doesn’t want released’
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=291041

    Sen. Slom also said that he did not believe correct the claim that state law in Hawaii prevents a person from receiving a copy of their own original long form birth certificate.

    Bob

    Robert Clark April 25, 2011 at 7:13 pm (Quote) #
    obsolete:
    So are Sen. Slom and yourself (by extension) calling the President’s mother a whore?

    No. She was young when she became pregnant. A common theory floating around is she got pregnant while in Washington state. The family, so goes the theory, moved to Hawaii because that was felt to have a more accepting attitude towards race relations. If the father was also young he very well might not have been able to handle the responsibility of being a father.

    Then Obama would have stepped in to give the baby a name.

    Bob

  256. avatar
    bjphysics April 27, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    Gregory: Greg is correct. The President produced a certified copy (actually, he obtained two certified copies of his birth certificate) – complete with seal and signature. I quote from the Director’s mail to the President:“Enclosed please find two certified copies of your original Certificate of Live Birth.”

    I’m not sure about the raised seal part. I don’t see it but it could be the angle and the light. If it does not have a raised seal I don’t think it is a legal document like the CoLB; rather the document when coupled with the signature and statement is a valid and truthful political document.

  257. avatar
    JohnC April 27, 2011 at 1:39 pm #

    I can’t wait for the Corsi book to come out next month.

    Rather than providing “explosive” evidence that Obama wasn’t born in the U.S., Corsi’s book will forever stand as a testament to how a hyper-cynical movement can delude itself into an alternate reality.

  258. avatar
    JohnC April 27, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    — Putting birther hat on —

    Birthers are asking, “Why did the President release his long-form now?”

    Forthcoming rationalization from the birth community: “To try to take the wind out of the birthplace issue so that no one will read the claims in Corsi’s book that Obama lost his U.S. citizenship or was an affirmative-action student as Harvard and got in with money from Muslims and/or radical Marxists.”

    — Taking birth hat off again —

    My brain hurts.

  259. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    hey theFarLeftView, seriously, you need to call:
    http://www.njmentalhealthcares.org/
    your mental helath is in jeopardy

  260. avatar
    Suranis April 27, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    JoZeppy: Just splitting hairs here, but from what I understand of the document, it’s admissible in court as a self-authenticating document (FRE 902(2)), but not acceptable for all purposes, lacking the raised seal (i.e. would not be acceptable for the purposes of obtaining a passport).

    Which is why His COLB still does and always did serve as the legal standard for all purposes.

  261. avatar
    Wile E. April 27, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    Just a quick question about how this document was put together…

    Doesn’t it appear that a plain black and white copy was first made of the bound original birth record…and that copy was then used to make a copy onto the security paper?

  262. avatar
    The Magic M April 27, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    > BO BS BC composed of multiple layers and elements…..can anyone say
    PHOTOSHOPPED ?

    If it was photoshopped, the PS layers would not have transferred through to the PDF (try it if you don’t believe me).
    Also it is clear what these layers contain, and it has been mentioned here that Acrobat does all kinds of weird things when scanning.

    > why send an officer to jail, when he could have resolved this issue earlier?

    Are you really so delusional as to believe Lakin will now be freed immediately?
    Lakin chose to disobey his immediate superior, something he cannot do even if the POTUS was not legitimate. Besides, the order was not “illegal on its face” – a very high standard for permitted disobeyance, met only by orders such as “shoot these children” but not by orders like “deploy to this country even though the CiC has not shown you what you want him to show you”.

  263. avatar
    Daniel April 27, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    JohnC: Birthers are asking, “Why did the President release his long-form now?”

    To give Trump some credibility.

    Because the best thing that could possibly happen for the Democrats in 2012 is for Trump to get the GOP nomination.

  264. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    thefarleftView: BO BS BC composed of multiple layers and elements…..can anyone sayPHOTOSHOPPED ??http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2711307/posts

    Hey, that’s a surprise. I would have never expected birthers to come out and make nutty, baseless claims that the document was forged.

    Get over it. You lost…again.

    After all this time, and all the birther rants over the first totally debunked claims of forgery, that if these claims that layers really meant anything, that they would print the document out, and then scan it?

    But hey, feel free to be a conspiracy nut. You’re only showing all the independants just how nutty the republican base has become.

  265. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    are you really delusional that lt col lakin……..

    ummm, I didn’t say that in my post did I?????

  266. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    Afterbirthers Demand To See Obama’s Placenta

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/afterbirthers-demand-to-see-obamas-placenta,6866/

  267. avatar
    Daniel April 27, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    thefarleftView:
    are you really delusional that lt col lakin……..

    ummm, I didn’t say that in my post did I?????

    OK, so you ARE that delusional.

  268. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    no BIRTHERS ARE SAYING

    ty OBAMA for releasing another fraud, which one is the real BC this one, or the one in 2007or 2008? Or the three other fakes he’s issued. How many BC does he have? Which one is the real one?

    Plus it proves that his has dual citiznship

  269. avatar
    Daniel April 27, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    thefarleftView: no BIRTHERS ARE SAYING

    ty OBAMA for releasing another fraud, which one is the real BC this one, or the one in 2007or 2008? Or the three other fakes he’s issued. How many BC does he have? Which one is the real one?

    Plus it proves that his has dual citiznship

    OK, so you ARE that delusional.

  270. avatar
    thefarleftView April 27, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    pretty obvious to me that in the same file and folder that the twins have their BC obama has a completely different electronic file that is not black and white ??

    come on people…….can anyone say photoshopped ?

  271. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    JohnC: or was an affirmative-action student as Harvard

    Quite honestly, I suspect college admissions officers would look with great interest on a bi-racial kid from Hawaii who had lived in Indonesia as they look for not just racial, but also experiential and geographiic diversity in their entering cohorts. So what?

    By the way, college transcripts do not show the factors that were considered in your admission. They show courses taken, dates, grades, degree granted, honors. What factors caused the student to be admitted would be in the admissions file (maybe), which the student does not have a right to look at. You can bet that Harvard, Columbia, etc would fight all the way to the Supreme Court before they would open those up (assuming they even had them from 25 or 30 years ago).

    Anyway, being a great student is not a pre-requisite for President. I have seen FDRs report card from Harvard and he got Cs. Bush Jr got Cs. So did Kerry. McCain was near the bottoom of his class at Annapolis. The only recent President who clearly excelled in school was Clinton, who got a Rhodes scholarship.

  272. avatar
    Daniel April 27, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    thefarleftView:
    pretty obvious to me that in the same file and folder that the twins have their BC obama has a completely different electronic file that is not black and white ??

    come on people…….can anyone say photoshopped ?

    OK, so you ARE that delusional.

  273. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    thefarleftView: which one is the real BC this one, or the one in 2007or 2008?

    Which one of Trump’s 3 is real? Possibly none.

    All future elections are cancelled, since all documents anyone submits are fake.

  274. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 27, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    thefarleftView: pretty obvious to me that in the same file and folder that the twins have their BC obama has a completely different electronic file that is not black and white ??

    come on people…….can anyone say photoshopped ?

    Normally, I wouldn’t take time to comment on something so silly, but there is something that bears repeating. The original birth certificate is black and white; the COLB is also black and white. The B&W COLB is printed onto green paper.

  275. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    WND owes Kapio’lani Hospital 15,000.00, will he pay up?
    .
    That’s the Honolulu hospital listed on Barack Obama’s long-form birth certificate (.pdf). Farah made a promise in August 2009 on Obama’s birthday — or as Farah put it, “what he claims to be his birthday” — that he would make a big donation to the medical center if Obama released his birth certificate:

    “We’ve tried the stick,” said Farah. “Now let’s try the carrot. Obama has said he was born in Kapi’olani Hospital in Honolulu. He participated in a fund-raiser for the medical center in January. WND will send a check in the amount of $15,000 to whatever birth hospital is listed on his long-form birth certificate. All Obama has to do to see that donation made is to release it publicly.”
    .
    so lets wait and see if lying sack of _____ will send $15,000.00
    .
    has theFarLeftView called the Mental Health referral service yet, he should, his rants are getting worse, poor guy is losing his mind.

  276. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 27, 2011 at 2:09 pm #

    Wile E.:
    Just a quick question about how this document was put together…

    Doesn’t it appear that a plain black and white copy was first made of the bound original birth record…and that copy was then used to make a copy onto the security paper?

    That’s the normal way it is done. This is why a Sun Yat-Sen birth cerfiticate from 100 years ago appears on the same paper as a modern Hawaiian birth certificate.

  277. avatar
    Bovril April 27, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    Yay Dr C, welcome back to the fun house, it be busy today….. 😎 8-0

  278. avatar
    Gregory April 27, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    bjphysics: I’m not sure about the raised seal part. I don’t see it but it could be the angle and the light. If it does not have a raised seal I don’t think it is a legal document like the CoLB; rather the document when coupled with the signature and statement is a valid and truthful political document.

    The raised seal is on the other side of the paper (just as it was on the birth certificate Obama released in 2008). In fact, you can see how the seal affects the type “Abstract of the Record” on the front side of the document.

  279. avatar
    The Magic M April 27, 2011 at 2:15 pm #

    > why spin this on birth certificate when the real issue is NBC?

    Yes, tell me, why have BIRTHERS like Trump or WND (The “Where’s the birth certificate?” campaign, remember?”) always focused on the BC?

    Why have BIRTHERS like Sharon Rondeau or Dr Kate always harped on about the alleged Kenyan birth?

    Why have BIRTHERS like nc1 always demanded the release of the BC, or confirmations of confirmations of confirmations that the COLB is authentic or that Obama was born at Kapiolani?

    Of course, we have always been at war with Eurasia, so now BIRTHERS claim they never gave much for the BC and have always been about the NBC issue. Sure. You are really the laughing stock of the world.

  280. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    The part I find funniest, is how you DEMs and/or LIBs defend this issue from every angle, even if they conflict one another. For 3 years you’ve crooned he shouldn’t show it, now he has you want to croon how “THIS WILL SHOW THEM…I’D Like to see XYZ’s Face when they saw this….blah blah blah.” You’re truly just a bunch of con artists saying what you need to say in attempt to make BHO look good, if at least in your own mind to convince yourselves that just maybe, this WORST President in History isn’t all that bad, at least we haven’t sunk into the Pacific…yet.
    – – –
    Is this B.C. authentic, I assume it is and accept it for it’s face value. I’m not one to just JUMP on it’s Fake for this or that, I’m no expert and have to assume the experts involved have done their due diligence in authenticating it. SO, here it is, the “piece of paper” that the anointed one avoided showing, all this time, for no plausible good reason other than to be an ass and let the question linger in people minds that were asking a very simple RIGHTFUL question. It’s an Americans Right to KNOW, without a doubt, who their Commander In Chief is. REGARDLESS what your Feelings are about the COLB and all your excuses why he didn’t show this sooner. Oh, if only ten people wanted to see it, or a hundred, or even a thousand or so, that’s like when the Supreme Court says “you don’t have standing”. But this was many MANY More asking. And it wasn’t like this was something HARD to get. Matter of fact it was extremely easy, with the many trips BHO took to Hawaii, he had many opportunities, but CHOOSE to avoid it. And now whats he saying? He’s saying we don’t want distractions by side shows or carnival barkers. Hmmm, that wasn’t important his first two years in office, but now he’s begun his campaigning(did he ever STOP? hell no) he wants to use this as a positive in his favor. NOW it’s a distraction.
    – – –
    So Here it is, I’m Glad to See it, I expect fools will still defend BOTH him Hiding it and Showing it at THE SAME TIME. And I expect there will always be disbelievers. If it weren’t for ALL of you idiots, the average person wouldn’t be as average, so we appreciate your foolishness. Please keep posting, it both humors me and makes me thankful.

  281. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    JoZeppy: But someone also said that the state said it’s not an official document? Not sure what the story is (not that it matters, since the COLB was sufficient for all purposes anyway).

    Here’s what the letter from the Director of Health says:

    Enclosed please find two certified copies of your original Certificate of Live Birth. I have witnessed the copying of the certificate and attest to the authenticity of these copies.

    So, we have the signature of the Registrar on the certificate itself and the Director of Health in a composed letter swearing the documents are authentic.

  282. avatar
    The Magic M April 27, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    > that the twins have their BC obama has a completely different electronic file that is not black and white

    Actually, I’m pretty sure if the Obama LFBC had been released in the same format as the Nordyke twins’ BC (white on black), the birfers would have screamed “but that’s a copy of a microfiche, the DoH said it was ‘written down’, a microfiche is not ‘written down’ and could be a forgery, it’s not an original record” something similarly asinine.

  283. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    From a Freeper article:
    “In the ‘This Birth’ box there are two mysterious Xs above ‘Twin’ and ‘Triplet.’ Is there a sibling or two unaccounted for?”

    Shhhh! I think they’re getting close to the real reason he was hiding his birth certificate. He didn’t want them to find out he’s the result of a secret cloning program at Harvard.

  284. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    the official Beferstani response:
    we won’t comment until we read Corsi’s book and get the final investigator report from Donald Trump (see rightsideof life being on the wrong side)
    .
    sure a book from a known liar and a report from ivestigators that don’t exist (which is why Trump is dropping this issue – watch John King inverview Trump tonight 9PM eastern
    .
    has thefarleftview sought mental health help yet?

  285. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    And MISHA, you used to post half way sensible posts. I hope that sorry article from the “ONION” is just a joke. I’m not a reader of that, and didn’t look further than about 3 sentences, but assume that’s a comical/cynical kind of liberal paper? Still, it makes a point, from the lefties, that you believe no matter what that people will never believe your anointed one. I have to agree with you, but not because the right doesn’t want to believe, it’s because they were forced to not believe. Had your Idealistic Leader did the proper thing from day one, and laid all the cards on the table then, at least it would have Shut People up about this issue. Oh, they’d still dislike him on his political issues, because they do suck, but BHO would have zipped their lips early on………yet he didn’t. And if you can’t see what that would to a person’s thought process, well I’m about 4 degrees under qualified to explain that to you.

  286. avatar
    DCH April 27, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    Here is the spin ofter at American Thinker blog after seeing the LFBC they’ve been demanding to be ‘released’ for two years:

    “There is absolutely nothing on the newly-released certificate that appears worth spending millions of dollars in legal fees to prevent release in various lawsuits that have been filed. Which raises serious questions about the president’s motives in hiding the certificate.”

    No kidding on the first part.

    Note how the fail to acknowledge any previous misunderstanding and ignorance then conflate it with the made up “legal fee” claim and now a new innuendo with “the raises serious questions” wording. They then do not say what those questions might be, but they do know they are serious.

    Actually the whole birther obession raises “serious questions about the motives” of these guys.
    1. The COLB says exactly what the LFBC form says and that was out 2.5 years ago – proving Obama was telling the truth and THEY were lying.
    2. They are already erasing the history of LFBC
    3. Obama spend nothing hiding anything, they know it but won’t admit it.
    4. They don’t report that McCain spent 1.5 million AFTER the campiagn was over as well.

    This is why they have lost eighty-six cases in a row in US courts.
    The are blinded by a cult like obsession. They are projecting and accusing Obama of doing what they are actually doing – lying.

  287. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 2:47 pm #

    “I hope that sorry article from the “ONION” is just a joke”
    the onion is a satire site and has been for over 8 years, you are the first person I’ve seen that doesn’t know that. Although some wing nut sites have quoted Onion as if it was real, was that you?

  288. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    “anointed one.”
    what’s this right wing fascination with “the anointed one”, “the Mesiah”, right wingers generally show this trait, but why? Silly stuff isn’t it?

  289. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    richCareless, I believe I SAID I don’t read it, so your simply saying it is Satire would have sufficed. AND, it was one of YOURs that posted the comment, not me clownboy. I can see some things/people never change. DCH continues to croon, just as expected. He claims Obama never spent anything hiding it, OK, whatever, I assume that’s true. But goes onto accuse McCain of spending 1.5million, and doesn’t say on what or provide evidence. It’s the SAME ghost money he just accused the right of saying BHO spent. But it’s ok with a Lefty says it….again, some things never change. Did you read that in Onion or some post richcareless made?

  290. avatar
    Daniel April 27, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    TRUTH: I’m not one to just JUMP on it’s Fake for this or that, I’m no expert and have to assume the experts involved have done their due diligence in authenticating it.

    I wonder why you didn’t assume the experts involved had done their due diligence before when the legally admissible document, the COLB, was presented? Why only now when a copy of a document that would not have served to establish eligibility in a legal sense are you satisfied?

    Loser.

  291. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2011 at 3:08 pm #

    ANOINTED, if it must be broken down to you richy, is the reference to how Lefties look at BHO. But I know you knew that….right? did you….maybe? heard it in a socialist webinar once maybe?

  292. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    misha: Afterbirthers Demand To See Obama’s Placentahttp://www.theonion.com/articles/afterbirthers-demand-to-see-obamas-placenta,6866/

    TRUTH: I hope that sorry article from the “ONION” is just a joke.

    It is NOT a joke. The Onion is America’s Finest News Source, and you should take that seriously.

    TRUTH: Oh, they’d still dislike him on his political issues, because they do suck

    I completely disagree with Obama on Afghanistan, Libya, and Gitmo. I think he is flat out wrong on all three. Unfortunately, a GOP vote is a vote to theocratize the country, and I am more afraid of the christofascists than I am of Saddam Hussein.

    I care more about the 1st Amendment, than I care about Afghanistan. I have done my duty in that regard: I adopted an Afghan hound from a shelter.

  293. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    TRUTH: And MISHA, you used to post half way sensible posts.

    No, they were 3/4 way sensible.

  294. avatar
    Daniel April 27, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    TRUTH: And MISHA, you used to post half way sensible posts. I hope that sorry article from the “ONION” is just a joke. I’m not a reader of that, and didn’t look further than about 3 sentences, but assume that’s a comical/cynical kind of liberal paper?

    Misha has always posted satirical parodies of Birtherisms. Apparently you didn’t get that joke either….

  295. avatar
    Thrifty April 27, 2011 at 3:18 pm #

    TRUTH: The part I find funniest, is how you DEMs and/or LIBs defend this issue from every angle, even if they conflict one another. For 3 years you’ve crooned he shouldn’t show it, now he has you want to croon how “THIS WILL SHOW THEM…I’D Like to see XYZ’s Face when they saw this….blah blah blah.” You’re truly just a bunch of con artists saying what you need to say in attempt to make BHO look good, if at least in your own mind to convince yourselves that just maybe, this WORST President in History isn’t all that bad, at least we haven’t sunk into the Pacific…yet.

    Birtherism is not a political issue. It is an issue of facts. Naturally it has a political element in that this is the President of the United States that we are talking about. Except discussion of the issue has never been about Obama’s policies, but rather about his legal qualifications to hold the office.

    While there are no Democrat Birthers, there are plenty of Republican anti-birthers who think you guys are a bunch of lunatics, but also wouldn’t vote for Barack Obama in a million years. Quit acting like being a Democrat or a liberal or an Obama supporter is some prerequisite for defending him on charges that he’s not a natural born citizen.

  296. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 3:20 pm #

    TRUTH: Had your Idealistic Leader did the proper thing from day one, and laid all the cards on the table then

    Know why some people were clamoring about the birth certificate? Three words: Fugitive Slave Act.

    The ring leader is a refusenik, refugee and all around shande. She should put all of her cards on the table – like, was she a streetwalker in Moldova? She never denied it. She, Lieberman and the rest of their crowd is making life hell for Arabs in Israel.

    But that’s another blog.

  297. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    Thrifty: While there are no Democrat Birthers . . .

    Birther lawyer Phil Berg was a Democrat as were many PUMA birthers. Not sure if he or they still are.

  298. avatar
    bjphysics April 27, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    TRUTH: …4 degrees under qualified to explain that to you.

    You sound pretty smart to me and well informed. I’ve been trying to find online images of other President’s birth validation documents but have been unable. I have also tried to find links of individuals and organizations demanding past President’s make those documents available for inspection. So far I have had little success but you sound well informed so can you provide these links?

    Thanks, BJ the Physicist

  299. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    TRUTH: But goes onto accuse McCain of spending 1.5million, and doesn’t say on what or provide evidence.

    FEC filings show that the McCain campaign has spent something like $1.3 million on post-election legal expenses while the Obama campaign has spent around $2 million. President Obama hasn’t spent anything to ‘seal his records’ and very little to defend against birther lawsuits (some of which required the plaintiffs to pay legal fees in any case – in one such case, I believe the president’s lawyers only claimed less than $1,000…).

    You’re nothing more than another bigoted birther loser making up seditious lies against the lawful POTUS. You should be ashamed or yourself – didn’t anyone ever teach you what being an American is all about?

  300. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    richCares:
    “anointed one.”
    what’s this right wing fascination with “the anointed one”, “the Mesiah”, right wingers generally show this trait, but why? Silly stuff isn’t it?

    They are hatred driven, mentally challenged gigglers who shouldn’t be taken seriously.

  301. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    Daniel, pat yourself on the back for me for putting a huge Twist on that story and completely ignoring the most simplistic part of it. SHOW ME THE MONEY. I was impressed to see you signed it with your proper name however. Good on ya.

  302. avatar
    Gregory April 27, 2011 at 3:27 pm #

    misha: No, they were 3/4 way sensible.

    Perhaps you would consider indicating the Ό non-sensible portion of your posts (perhaps using bold or italics) as a courtesy to your readers?

  303. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    bjphysics: You sound pretty smart to me and well informed. I’ve been trying to find online images of other President’s birth validation documents but have been unable. I have also tried to find links of individuals and organizations demanding past President’s make those documents available for inspection. So far I have had little success but you sound well informed so can you provide these links?

    Thanks, BJ the Physicist

    Sorry Dr. Einstein, that’s not my hobby. Ask richy for those things, he seems to be an expert in that field.

  304. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    POT STIRRED, I now return you to your regular scheduled debacle.

    TRUTH…Over n Out

  305. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    TRUTH: I’m not a reader

    Your vile disdain of U.S. law is what is reprehensible. The state of Hawaii issued its official copy years ago proving birth to the President and you spat on the legal authority screaming fraud like a psychotic mental patient until your personal demands and paranoid delusions were satisfied.

    Don’t you have a grease stain somewhere to feed off, little cockroach?

  306. avatar
    DCH April 27, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    “FEC filings show that the McCain campaign has spent something like $1.3 million on post-election legal expenses while the Obama campaign has spent around $2 million.”

    In other words the McCain fact is from the same source as the Obama fact about post election legal paymemts.

    So what is McCain spending $1.3 million to hide?

  307. avatar
    Suranis April 27, 2011 at 3:37 pm #

    TRUTH: AND, it was one of YOURs that posted the comment, not me clownboy.

    Oh really? Wheres the post. Link? What forum. Because the only person I’ve ever heard calling Obama the anointed one is Sean Hannity. And his devoted followers of course.

  308. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    Gregory: Perhaps you would consider indicating the Ό non-sensible portion of your posts (perhaps using bold or italics) as a courtesy to your readers?

    Orly Taitz hit a badger with her car, and then ate it.

    Just kidding. Orly would never eat a badger – it’s not kosher.

  309. avatar
    bjphysics April 27, 2011 at 3:51 pm #

    TRUTH: …DCH continues to croon, just as expected. He claims Obama never spent anything hiding it, OK, whatever, I assume that’s true. But goes onto accuse McCain of spending 1.5million, and doesn’t say on what or provide evidence. It’s the SAME ghost money he just accused the right of saying BHO spent.

    If DCH stated that the Obama campaign spent no money addressing birther legal challenges that is probably incorrect. The allegation by inference and speculation made by birthers is that ALL Obama’s legal expenses come from birther legal action.

    Stating that the McCain campaign spent a large amount of money is not an “accusation” it is just a statement of fact brought up in response to the specious birther legal expense smear for comparative purposes. It would be an accusation if someone said: “McCain spent $X million fighting a sexual harassment suit brought by a transvestite.”

    You can read about this “ghost money” here:

    http://www.rollcall.com/issues/56_103/Obama-Campaign-Racks-Up-Large-Legal-Fees-204489-1.html

  310. avatar
    Daniel April 27, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    misha: Orly Taitz hit a badger with her car, and then ate it.

    Just kidding. Orly would never eat a badger – it’s not kosher.

    Your sentence could also indicate that Orly ate the car, which would be kosher… unless it’s a prius

  311. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    bjphysics: It would be an accusation if someone said: “McCain spent $X million fighting a sexual harassment suit brought by a transvestite.”

    Wait, he didn’t? Uh, oh.

  312. avatar
    DCH April 27, 2011 at 4:09 pm #

    The McCain legal spend number comes from the same FEC source as the Obama legal spend number that forms the kernal of fact that the birther myth of “millions spend hiding his BC” comes from.

    As for my McCain “accusation” I was merely doing what birthers have been doing and asked a leading question with no actual substance.

    Acording to the standards and practices in Birtherstan leagl logic manual now that someone has “gone on the record” and said “McCain spent $X million fighting a sexual harassment suit brought by a transvestite.” I think it time that John Mcain “step up and release” the receipts for he legal expenses. After all what does he have to hide?

    After all it raises “serious questions” when a public figure is accused and does not respond and “release’ the facts.

    See how easy this is!

  313. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    Daniel: Your sentence could also indicate that Orly ate the car, which would be kosher

    Was the car’s tailpipe circumcised?

  314. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    Slartibartfast: I think that the White House understood the politics in this much better than we did (professional pols understand politics better than a bunch of people commenting on the interwebs – who woulda thunk it?).

    Then again, you’ve got RNC Chairman Reinze Priebus issuing a statement attacking Obama for today’s release – calling it “playing politics” and a “distraction” from the issues…

    *sheesh* The pathetic spin never stops…

    (Oh – & H/T to you earlier for the “Stew Beef” reference… I remember watching the original episode where Tracy Morgan coined that moniker for him… I laughed so hard… and even more to see how well it has “stuck” since then.) πŸ˜‰

  315. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    J. Edward Tremlett: And over at Whirled Nut Daily, Joey F is already calling this a victory. No shame whatsoever.

    Yeah, well this just makes his upcoming book DOA. Anyone who picks it up at this point in time and can’t tell how irrelevant and BS it is is too far gone. The timing of this step hopefully will *finally* lead the rest of the media to acknowledge that WND is just a discredited trash rag site. They don’t belong at WH Press briefings at all…

    Sadly, WND makes FNC and all their propaganda shennanigans seem “fair and balanced” by comparison…now if that isn’t a sad statement of modern absurdity, I don’t know what is…

  316. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    Suranis: Oh really? Wheres the post. Link? What forum. Because the only person I’ve ever heard calling Obama the anointed one is Sean Hannity. And his devoted followers of course.

    SurAnus, I can’t go home without replying to your lack or reading ability. The posts were in reference to something one of the Dems posted here, not even 10 or 15 posts earlier. Smoke that in your “Anointed” peace pipe you blind bat.

  317. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    JoZeppy: I have to say, I do find it rather distasteful that a waiver was given due to his “status as President of the United States.” I can understand why it was done, but I’m personally a fan of the concept of equality before the law.

    Agreed. The laws were made to apply to all equally, regardless of your office or title. At least both the request from Obama and the response cited the extenuating circumstances of alleviating the burden of requests on the State of HI as a justification for making this exception.

    Other than for reasoned and rare extreme exceptions like “maybe” that, no one should be encouraging Presidents or other officials to be able to get around laws just because of their title.

  318. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    nemocapn: So, is this the end of Squeeky being a birther? She said on Western Journalism that she’d be satisfied if he presented an uncertified long form as long as it wasn’t signed by someone ridiculous like Peter Rabbit.

    Hah! Yeah, right! She’s just another PUMA Concern Troll desperate for attention. She never means anything she says…

    She’ll just move the Goal Posts like all the rest… ODS is not cured that easily…

  319. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 27, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    G: Agreed. The laws were made to apply to all equally, regardless of your office or title. At least both the request from Obama and the response cited the extenuating circumstances of alleviating the burden of requests on the State of HI as a justification for making this exception.

    However, this is not a matter of law because the law gives the Director of the Department of Health the authority to do exactly what she did.

  320. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    Slartibartfast: By the way, is Trump going to release his tax records now?

    Oooh… Good catch!

    I hope someone in the press is smart enough to call him on this, since he was foolish to make that bold statement.

    He can really only dance around this issue and claim delays due to his show for a few more weeks. Once the big finale hits (and he makes whatever his “announcement” is)… there is no longer any reason for the media to treat him with kid gloves if he actually jumps in… and calling him out on all his past statements and declarations during these past few months is all fair game!

  321. avatar
    Bovril April 27, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    G: Hah! Yeah, right! She’s just another PUMA Concern Troll desperate for attention. She never means anything she says…She’ll just move the Goal Posts like all the rest… ODS is not cured that easily…

    The feck she is, she’s over on Gratewire spinnning like a centrifuge and desperately “Tee Hee”ing in a vain attempt to hide her lies and cack.

    Some wicked Obot keeps following her around with reminding her of her vacusous lies and also wondering…..

    ” When will you disavow the racist traitorous, inciting, seditious vermin you support at the Pest and Fail and Dr K(H)ates?”

    She’s not best pleased.

  322. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    Wild Bill H: So…he suddenly turns up with an uncertified long-form…you know that form that Hawaii doesn’t, under any circumstances, issue anymore.
    Did he obtain this form illegally? And exactly what scam is he trying to pull? It says right here on this website (Doc’s) that it is not certified and not a legal document. Humm….

    Obviously, you are in denial of both the press conference explaining everything PLUS the released forms which clearly explain the extra-ordinary exception steps he took to obtain this and why:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-correspondence.pdf

  323. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    Robert Clark: Couldn’t have been that different; they were posted within a few minutes of each other.
    I don’t think those people polled in the surveys who answered “Don’t know” qualify as birthers. I am saying the release of the original birth certificate may allow them to have a more positive, affirmative answer to the question.
    Bob

    You are assuming what “Don’t Know” responses mean… which ANY experienced poll person will tell you you shouldn’t waste time trying to speculate on.

    Often these are merely “low information” voters… they really don’t pay attention to such issues and have more important things going on in their lives, so they are not comfortable answering questions on topics they don’t really follow or care about.

    Many of them likely will have no clue about any of today’s news events. Many of them could probably care less, regardless.

  324. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    JoZeppy: I’ve been hearing mixed stories as to whether the state has applied a raised seal or not. Has there been any confirmation one way or the other? While it makes sense that if they’re going through the trouble of making a waiver of rules to issue something on security paper, and stamp it, why not go balls out and put the raised seal on it. But someone also said that the state said it’s not an official document? Not sure what the story is (not that it matters, since the COLB was sufficient for all purposes anyway).

    Read the letters. The request and the response state these copies are to be considered Certified Copies:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-correspondence.pdf

  325. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Thanks, guys, for getting me to look on the FEC site. I found this list of expenditures for presidential candidates:
    http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/cancomsrs/?_12+00+PR

    I noticed that the candidate with the largest net receipts through the first quarter of 2011 was a candidate I never heard off. Raphael Herman with net receipts of $1,497,982.

    I wondered why I’d never heard of him, so I went looking for information on him.

    I found a Youtube video where he says Kennedy brought him over from Israel when he was 16. Kennedy promised he’d change the laws of this country to allow him to be President of the U.S. About 3 minutes in, Herman said after the end of Obama’s term, “I’m going to go before Congress after I bring Bin Laden to America, the law’s going to be changed and in a few years I intend to run for President.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65KxKSOlm7U

    LOL. I guess Obama is just a setup to establish a precedent for a foreign born President so we can have our first Israeli-American president as planned by JFK. Remember JFK brought over Obama’s father, too.

  326. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    The Magic M: Lakin chose to disobey his immediate superior, something he cannot do even if the POTUS was not legitimate. Besides, the order was not “illegal on its face” – a very high standard for permitted disobeyance, met only by orders such as “shoot these children” but not by orders like “deploy to this country even though the CiC has not shown you what you want him to show you”.

    Which brings up a good question…at what point do you think (if ever) that it will sink into Lakin that he was a total fool and that by disobeying simple deployment orders over such delusions that he threw away his career and disgraced himself for nothing…?

    The look on his face hearing this news development has got to be utterly priceless…

  327. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 27, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    Daniel
    Your sentence could also indicate that Orly ate the car, which would be kosher… unless it’s a prius

    That was extremely funny.

  328. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    richCares: WND owes Kapio’lani Hospital 15,000.00, will he pay up?
    .
    That’s the Honolulu hospital listed on Barack Obama’s long-form birth certificate (.pdf). Farah made a promise in August 2009 on Obama’s birthday — or as Farah put it, “what he claims to be his birthday” — that he would make a big donation to the medical center if Obama released his birth certificate:
    “We’ve tried the stick,” said Farah. “Now let’s try the carrot. Obama has said he was born in Kapi’olani Hospital in Honolulu. He participated in a fund-raiser for the medical center in January. WND will send a check in the amount of $15,000 to whatever birth hospital is listed on his long-form birth certificate. All Obama has to do to see that donation made is to release it publicly.”
    .
    so lets wait and see if lying sack of _____ will send $15,000.00

    Good catch!

    People need to keep on this point and constantly call-out Farah on that until he does so and it can be confirmed that he’s paid up…

  329. avatar
    JoZeppy April 27, 2011 at 5:24 pm #

    And as long as we’re on the subject of WND….I visited their message board for the first time in a while, and found this gem from our fav. NM former paralegal (which I’m guessing is good reason why he is a “former” paralegal). Granted, it was posted before the latest news, but I found it a nice mix of ignorance of the law, right wing rant, and a little bit of racism thrown in for good measure:

    RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Foreign Born Babies?
    Posted by su359115 on Apr 26, 2011 22:23

    Any reasonable person has figured out by now that there is something amiss with Obama’s refusal to order a ‘certified electrostatic copy’ of the Hawaiian birth certificate. http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm

    Those who don’t get it probably think the ‘prima facie’ certification of REGISTRATION of a live born baby (not a witnessed birth) is a Birth Certificate. They are slow, confused, and misinformed. http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0012.htm

    But, you need company at the back of the class with the slow students with learning disabilities.

    As a paralegal, if I was asked to research an issue and the dissent was correct in its handling of the facts, law, and jurisprudence, I would cite the dissent . . . a judge adjudicating natural born citizenship does not HAVE to follow the majority holding in Wong Kim Ark, because Ark only discussed citizenship at birth of a child born in the U.S. of two alien parents.

    Justice Blackmun ignored the fact that the United States was over 85% Judeo/Christian, and created for slovenly women a constitutional right to conspire with a doctor to murder their unborn babies. Blackmun even cited, and then ignored Exodus 22:23 that was ‘on-point,’ and certainly dispositive.

    Wong Kim Ark has resulted in millions of illegals invading the United States, and the bankrupting of our health and social service infrastructure, if not completely undermining some state sovereignties.

    In addition, it has indirectly caused the child of a communist British citizen to claim Article II eligibility based on some fictionalized ‘native-birth,’ and proceeding to intentionally destroy the United States economy and currency.

    Roe vs Wade (1972) has resulted in the murders of more children than U.S. soldiers killed in every war since Independence was declared in 1776.

    See what an out of control and unconstitutional judiciary can do?

  330. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 5:30 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: However, this is not a matter of law because the law gives the Director of the Department of Health the authority to do exactly what she did.

    Point taken. For clarification, I am in no way implying what he did was illegal in any sense of the word.

    For the sake of fairness in our rules, I’m just advocating that we need to be careful about what circumstances merit such exceptions. It is not a good road to go down for there to be rules and procedures meant for everyone in which someone in political office can just bypass by use of their title alone.

    I’m satisfied with the letter and response given and how it was phrased to make it clear that he wasn’t just “demanding” such an exception due to his office, but clearly expressed both the reasons and the value, not only to the country, but also to the State of HI for why he was requesting such an extraordinary exception to be made.

  331. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    G: Hah! Yeah, right! She’s just another PUMA Concern Troll desperate for attention. She never means anything she says…

    She’ll just move the Goal Posts like all the rest… ODS is not cured that easily

    Yeah, Squeeks is faking it. Stereotypical woman–not satisfied with the short form. Says she’ll be satisfied with the long form but once she gets it, it’s not enough.

  332. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 5:47 pm #

    TRUTH: . . . without replying to your lack or reading ability.

    Another irony meter has been sacrificed.

  333. avatar
    Suranis April 27, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    TRUTH: SurAnus, I can’t go home without replying to your lack or reading ability.The posts were in reference to something one of the Dems posted here, not even 10 or 15 posts earlier.Smoke that in your “Anointed” peace pipe you blind bat.

    Oh really? Which one? *Bats eyelashes*

    And its generally called SirAnus by the more astute birthers who actually use all the letters that are there. But don’t worry, I’m sure with just a bit more effort and training that you might reach their trolling level. (That’s remedial level, but you cant have everything)

  334. avatar
    misha April 29, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    Important news about Donald Trump:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/trump-unable-to-produce-certificate-proving-hes-no,20250/

  335. avatar
    obsolete April 29, 2011 at 9:04 pm #

    Additional important news about Donald Trump:

    Deferments Helped Trump Dodge Vietnam
    How the presidential aspirant avoided fighting for his country

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/celebrity/deferments-helped-trump-dodge-vietnam

    Summary:
    Trump is a racist, lying, SOB.