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Mailbag 4/21/2011

I got a doozey in the mail today. [Rated R for language and strong sexual content]

I just happened upon your site, and because of the name, thought I may have stumbled upon something cool. So, I started reading and expected to see some objective information regarding the Crown’s latest figurehead. But man, this is nothing short of a Libtard’s wet dream. What a liberal rag of SHIT!

One look at your GOOD, Bad, and UGLY list (at the bottom) immediately pegs you guys as Left-Wing shills! Wow, are you guys ever lost! Do yourselves a favor now, and educate yourselves with the following term, the Left-Right Paradigm! You’re hopelessly trapped in it, though you’re probably too stupid to realize that fact.

Do you actually believe that Media Matters is objective journalism, lol? Where, in your opinion should I get my news from, The Daily Show, Bill “fake Libertarian” Maher, or SNL?

And FYI, it’s obvious (to the non-retarded) that Obama and his terrorist buddy Ayers, both have ties to Fact Lack.bored (FactCheck.org) “But it’s ran by a university, so they have to be honest, right?” Universities are never known for breeding liberal dipshits, are they? (lol)

Furthermore, if you guys love that retard Obama so much, then why don’t go suck him off at Man’s Country in Chicago (the gay club preferred by both Barack and Rahm Emanuel). Apparently, a few of the Negroes that worked there wound up permanently “missing” shortly after Obama started running for What a coincidence, I guess they knew too much!

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75 Responses to Mailbag 4/21/2011

  1. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 21, 2011 at 11:44 pm #

    In answer to: “Do you actually believe that Media Matters is objective journalism, lol?” I would say that Media Matters for America is liberal leaning, but nevertheless accurate in its reporting so far as I can tell and a good source to learn about birther politics. I don’t regularly read MediaMatters, but I get Google alerts that point me there. Intelligent people can handle a news source with a bias.

    Given the writer’s closing paragraph, it would seem that his idea of objective journalism is the Globe Magazine.

  2. avatar
    Sean April 21, 2011 at 11:49 pm #

    I like that he had to explain what Fact Lack.bored meant.

  3. avatar
    nemocapn April 22, 2011 at 12:02 am #

    And this guy says we’re trapped in a left-right paradigm? His email is filled with liberal this and libtard that.

    Yes, factcheck.org is so far to the left as evidenced by liberal Dick Cheney who recommended it in the 2004 Vice Presidential debates. It’s funded by liberal Walter Annenberg who was good friends with the Hollywood liberal Ronald Reagan, who was president of the Commie union, the Screen Actors Guild.

    Indeed, universities are breeding grounds for liberal dip****s, graduating libtards like Sarah Palin (University of Idaho) and George W. Bush (Yale University).

  4. avatar
    DP April 22, 2011 at 12:05 am #

    Just casually wandering around on sites like this, I have noticed that the more belligerant and silly wingnut men seem to obsess about homosexuality and accusations of homosexuality in others. I wonder if they know that can be considered an indication of denial about one’s own urges.

  5. avatar
    Daniel April 22, 2011 at 12:31 am #

    Dear unnamed redneck:

    Thank you for your… letter.

    We’ll be sure to give your uninformed and puerile opinions all the consideration they deserve.

    Yours very sincerely
    Citizens of Realityville

  6. avatar
    US Citizen April 22, 2011 at 12:32 am #

    “…thought I may have stumbled upon something cool. So, I started reading and expected…”

    Sounds like he had some preconceived notions.

    “…expected to see some objective information…”

    Had he read more posts, he’d have seen many members here that are not 100% happy with Obama.
    But we haven’t a doubt as to where he was born and his legal status as President of the United States.

    “regarding the Crown’s latest figurehead.”

    Yes, because it is obviously a long-time conspiracy by Britain we have here.
    They conceived it over 40 years ago and put in place along with certain things that would be certain to win us over, like a middle name of “Hussein”, being black and books that admitted early cocaine usage and associations with radicals.
    Very clever of those pesky Brits, wasn’t it?
    But then again, unlike many false Christians, we know how to forgive and realize just who’s a better leader and who’s not.

    “..Wow, are you guys ever lost!”

    According to who was looking for a website and who already had one in place, you’d be the one who’s lost. ;-)

    But yes, we know. Having WON the election, this latest AZ bill, approx 80 legal challenges (not ONE birther case won yet) and quite possibly another 4 years of presidency, we cry ourselves to sleep over being just so pitifully lost.

    “Universities are never known for breeding liberal dipshits, are they?”

    You’re correct, even if biased in your usage.
    There’s no shortage of losers who have come out of universities.
    We can all agree to this one.

    But the people that DON’T have higher education, you rarely hear about at all. They don’t make the news much.
    They don’t build or design anything.
    They don’t become the heads of the big corporations you’d probably prefer were running things now either.

    They also don’t design the computer or OS you’re now using, your ISP or almost any website you’re now visiting, however lost you are.

    They don’t produce films, get you your house loans or design anything you own that’s mechanical, electrical or plastic.
    Please.. do without these minor inconveniences.

    Oh and they’re not your dentists, doctors and medical professionals either. If you get sick, visit your neighborhood witch doctor or church.

    Finally, you wouldn’t have any DVDs, video games or a car if not for someone that went to college.

    And personally, you’d probably not have a nice wife or girlfriend, so I can understand why you’re so associated with the term “wet dream.”
    Thanks for that personal info, but you’re really not that important that we care.

    The rest of your diatribe just shows that you’re a racist and fairly dimwitted.

    I guess the truth hurts and we’ve made you angry. Bummer.
    I’ve always noticed that winners are happy and losers are angry.
    Thanks for your conspiracy theories though.
    You’re finally important enough to publish somewhere.

  7. avatar
    James M April 22, 2011 at 12:45 am #

    It’s pretty obvious you’ve been trolled.

  8. avatar
    Passerby April 22, 2011 at 12:48 am #

    Wow, what an interesting posting of hatred and unsupported assertions. No wonder he does not like this site, which is all about fact.

  9. avatar
    misha April 22, 2011 at 1:04 am #

    DP: I wonder if they know that can be considered an indication of denial about one’s own urges.

    Yes.

    George Alan Rekers, a prominent anti-gay activist who co-founded the conservative Family Research Council, was caught returning from a 10-day trip to Europe with a male escort he found on rentboy.com

    Rekers has a new explanation for the trip. “I deliberately spend time with sinners with the loving goal to try to help them,” he said.

    Rekers is a Baptist minister.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/05/george-rekers-anti-gay-ac_n_565142.html

  10. avatar
    misha April 22, 2011 at 1:10 am #

    Here’s some hate mail I got:

    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2008/10/we-get-letters-we-get-stacks-and.html

  11. avatar
    richCares April 22, 2011 at 1:21 am #

    wwhat a sick pervert, so full of hate, I hope you did not send him an answer (that would be a waste if time)

  12. avatar
    dunstvangeet April 22, 2011 at 1:47 am #

    US Citizen, you forgot one thing…

    He can’t visit his church. The vast majority of pastors these days actually went to college to study religion. Furthermore, they went to grad school and have a Masters of Divinity.

    So, he can’t even go see his pastor…

  13. avatar
    Lupin April 22, 2011 at 2:23 am #

    Typical of the hate mail Markos Moulitsas (Kos) received every week.

    Bigots and homophobes.

  14. avatar
    Sean April 22, 2011 at 2:48 am #

    misha: Yes.

    George Alan Rekers, a prominent anti-gay activist who co-founded the conservative Family Research Council, was caught returning from a 10-day trip to Europe with a male escort he found on rentboy.com

    Rekers has a new explanation for the trip. “I deliberately spend time with sinners with the loving goal to try to help them,” he said.

    Rekers is a Baptist minister.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/05/george-rekers-anti-gay-ac_n_565142.html

    My favorite thing is that picture with the escort waiting for the elevator and Rekers was carrying his own bags!

  15. avatar
    misha April 22, 2011 at 2:58 am #

    Sean: My favorite thing is that picture with the escort waiting for the elevator and Rekers was carrying his own bags!

    It was taken out of context. Why do you libruls hate America?

  16. avatar
    Keith April 22, 2011 at 3:10 am #

    US Citizen: “regarding the Crown’s latest figurehead.”

    The dude is a sovereignist. Or a trool posing as a sovereignist.

  17. avatar
    bjphysics April 22, 2011 at 6:35 am #

    misha: Here’s some hate mail I got:http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2008/10/we-get-letters-we-get-stacks-and.html

    [from the link]

    “I’ll let you in on a secret: we meet in the basement of my building (don’t tell anyone). You can identify us: we’re all wearing black, as well as sandals. You can tell which subterranean room we’re in; it’s the one with the hookah in the center, filled with hashish.”

    Send an address to my secret email: bj.secret_international_liberal_conspiracy@hippie.org

  18. avatar
    US Citizen April 22, 2011 at 7:15 am #

    I HAD to respond to him.
    The fact is, the Illuminati just has better beer.
    Neither Soros nor the Bilderbergs even come close.
    On the other hand, the Reptilians have come a long way with their ales.

  19. avatar
    thisoldhippie April 22, 2011 at 8:54 am #

    HELP! I need to write a letter in response to this piece o’ crap that was published in our local paper yesterday. While I know that all of this is debunked – I don’t have written down the specifics to each of the lies – such as the law the writer refers to “hiding” records, etc. Please help me draft a letter in response so that I can send it today and hopefully have it printed Sunday. Y’all’s assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated!

    Questions, questions

    I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii or we would be referring to President Hillary Clinton today. The Clintons are ruthless with “opposition research” on their adversaries. If they found evidence of Kenyan birth they would have skewered Obama like a shish kebab.

    But there has to be a reason for the executive order sealing all his records and his willingness to spend more than $2 million dollars in legal fees keeping them hidden. My guess is that his records may show that Lolo Soetoro, from Indonesia, adopted Barry in 1968 after marrying Ms. Dunham. The adoption records would be in his Hawaiian birth records file along with a birth certificate if there is one. That would explain how he got into grade school in Indonesia, because non-Indonesians are not allowed in schools there. The adoption would also explain how he was able to travel in Pakistan as a young man, at a time when the USA forbade travel there. He had a valid Indonesian passport.

    Your guess is good as mine as to how he got a Connecticut Social Security number used on his Selective Service record In 1980. There is no evidence he ever even visited, much less lived there. There are valid concerns about this man’s background, and shame on the fawning media for not investigating Barack/Barry with the same vigor applied to George Bush. How can it be that more people know where Jimmy Hoffa is buried than where the current president was born?

    A Redneck from Georgia (real name withheld)

  20. avatar
    Thrifty April 22, 2011 at 9:13 am #

    That’s amazing. The writer managed to squeeze every anti-Obama cliche known to man into one short E-Mail.

  21. avatar
    Thrifty April 22, 2011 at 9:19 am #

    thisoldhippie: HELP! I need to write a letter in response to this piece o’ crap that was published in our local paper yesterday. While I know that all of this is debunked – I don’t have written down the specifics to each of the lies – such as the law the writer refers to “hiding” records, etc. Please help me draft a letter in response so that I can send it today and hopefully have it printed Sunday. Y’all’s assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated!

    I was thinking

    “Dear newspaper,

    I can’t believe you’re posting this conspiracy theorist trash in your letters to the editor section. Please cancel my subscription immediately.”

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 22, 2011 at 9:25 am #

    thisoldhippie: HELP! I need to write a letter in response to this piece o’ crap that was published in our local paper yesterday.

    The “executive order” thing is misinformation. What Obama did was to sign an executive order REMOVING restrictions created by the Bush administration, and restoring the rule to where it was under Reagan. The order restricts access to certain Presidential documents, but these are defined under the order as things the administration does, not artifacts from Obama’s past which he couldn’t seal by fiat even if he wanted to. For details see:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/08/more-faux-record-hiding/

    The whole $2 million claim is absurd. It doesn’t cost $2 million to have three lawsuits dismissed. I detail this in the article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/obamas-legal-fees/

    The idea that non-Indonesians couldn’t go to school in Indonesia is also bogus. What some birther did was to take the provision in the Indonesian Constitution that guarantees all citizens the right to an education, and try to make it say that non-Indonesians cannot get an education. I dealt with that question:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/hollister-v-indonesian-citizenship-law/

    The travel ban to Pakistan is equally bogus as shown here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/barack-obama-traveled-to-pakistan-on-an-indonesian-passport/

  23. avatar
    Thrifty April 22, 2011 at 9:25 am #

    This letter brings back to my mind a question I posited in a thread earlier this week. I noted that leading figures in the Democratic party are frequently referred to as “the far left” or “the extreme left” and so on by these bigoted redneck cranks. It led me to wonder what their conception of “the not-so-far left” would be.

    Now I realize that was a stupid question, because these dipshits don’t actually follow the issues or know anything. Terminology like “the far left” is just an all encompassing boogeyman for anything they disagree with. There’s no consideration of actual political beliefs to lend them any nuance. Whereas among rational people, “liberal” would be a word used to describe someone with a difficult to define set of political beliefs, for these guys, it’s just a term of slander, like “n*gger, k*ke, wetback, f*ggot” etc.

  24. avatar
    kimba April 22, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    Well, there’s 2 minutes I’ll never get back.

  25. avatar
    Suranis April 22, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    thisoldhippie:
    But there has to be a reason for the executive order sealing all his records

    The first Exec order signed by President Obama can be read here

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=76782#axzz1KG2UOnIA

    And only refers to presidential records. And it was a significant loosening up from Bush Jr.

    and his willingness to spend more than $2 million dollars in legal fees keeping them hidden.

    That figure is for the total legal expenses incurred by the Obama presidential campaign, which went on for over a year

    McCains campaign spend lightly less than thta amount on legal expenses AND he refused to release his birth certificate full stop.

    In Most of the birther court cases Obama didn’t have an auturney present at all, the goverment case was presented by a district autourney who would have been in some other case if he wasnt on this one.

    My guess is that his records may show that Lolo Soetoro, from Indonesia, adopted Barry in 1968 after marrying Ms. Dunham.

    US style adoptions are not legal under Muslim or Indeonesian law. The closest is a form of fostering where a man takes on another mans child but the child is never concidered a mamber of his blood family or recieves his name

    The adoption records would be in his Hawaiian birth records file along with a birth certificate if there is one. That would explain how he got into grade school in Indonesia, because non-Indonesians are not allowed in schools there.

    He went to a catholic run school, not a Madrassa style school (of which there are few if any in Indonesia) catholic schools will provide education to anyone.

    The adoption would also explain how he was able to travel in Pakistan as a young man, at a time when the USA forbade travel there. He had a valid Indonesian passport.

    There was a travel advisory on pakistan by the US state dept in august 1981 but travel advisories are just there to worm Americans that the place they are going might ne unstable. They do not prevent you from going. In addition New York Times assistant news editor Barbara Crossette visited Pakistan and wrote a column about her experiences, See http://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/14/travel/lahore-a-survivor-with-a-bittersweet-history.html

    There was no travel ban. See http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/passport.asp

    Your guess is good as mine as to how he got a Connecticut Social Security number used on his Selective Service record In 1980. There is no evidence he ever even visited, much less lived there. There are valid concerns about this man’s background, and shame on the fawning media for not investigating Barack/Barry with the same vigor applied to George Bush. How can it be that more people know where Jimmy Hoffa is buried than where the current president was born?

    A Redneck from Georgia (real name withheld)

    The SSN thing is rather silly. mainly as the people Orly Taitz keeps claiming the president used as his SSN all seen to wind up still having been alive at the time Obama is supposed to have stolen their numbers from the death index, but also seem to have had different SSN numbers anyway. Plus But in any case Taitz would have obtained this information using illegal methods, so its inadmissible in court.

    Besides it happens then difference between the Connecticut and hawaiin postal codes is one number – 0 and 9. you tell me you havent slipped up and misstyped those numbers?

    Hope all that helps with the letter.

  26. avatar
    US Citizen April 22, 2011 at 9:50 am #

    ” My guess is that his records may show that Lolo Soetoro, from Indonesia, adopted Barry in 1968 after marrying Ms. Dunham.”

    ‘US style adoptions are not legal under Muslim or Indonesian law.’

    Killing two birds with one stone is talent.
    I bow to a mechanic.

  27. avatar
    thefarleftView April 22, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    alan keyes schools DEATHERS

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/04/fox-business-goes-birther-alan-keyes-on.html

  28. avatar
    G April 22, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    thefarleftView: alan keyes schools DEATHERShttp://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/04/fox-business-goes-birther-alan-keyes-on.html

    So, who cares. Alan Keyes has long been a birther. He’s merely held a grudege against Obama since Obama beat him in the IL Senate race.

    Your term “deather” is meaningless and vapid. Birther has a clear meaning, a shorthand description for all fools and bigots who doubt Obama’s birth qualifies him as NBC.

    There is no similar connection to the term “deather” in this context. The term “deather” does have an actual political use and connection in today’s politics. It was a short-hand decription for fools who falsely believed that there were “death panels” in the Health Care Law. Most “deathers” were Tea Party types.

    So I guess you are trying to somehow attack the Tea Party…

  29. avatar
    Joey April 22, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    thefarleftView:
    alan keyes schools DEATHERS

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/04/fox-business-goes-birther-alan-keyes-on.html

    But folks who believe that President Obama is a natural born citizen don’t read obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com, better known as “the birther report.”

  30. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 22, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Intelligent people can handle a news source with a bias.

    I wish that the media here were as honest as they are in, say, England – where newspapers (and, presumably, other media outlets) admit their bias (i.e. liberal or conservative). It doesn’t seem to harm their objectivity one bit (personally, I think it helps – if the reader is aware of the bias, they can correct for it…). Then MSNBC could admit that they are a center-left organization with several solidly liberal voices and a few legitimate conservative ones (you can say what you want about Pat Buchanan, but he’s definitely a conservative…), FOX could admit that they are the propaganda arm of the conservative movement (Pravda was more likely to print criticism of the USSR than FOX is likely to praise a liberal in any way – their ‘designated liberals’ don’t seem to hold any liberal beliefs, as far as I can tell…), and CNN could admit that they are a network who’s unsophisticated notion of objectivity is a naively centrist bias (which they seem completely unaware of) with an assumed air of smug superiority… (for instance). (Of course The Daily Show has a humor bias with a focus on exposing idiocy [and a longing for fart jokes] with a penchant for hoisting hypocrites on their own petard (and a diverse team of fake reporters who excel at projecting incompetence) – but Jon Stewart already admits that… [explaining the bias in The Colbert Report {or Sir Stephen Colbert DFA} would fill up a doctoral thesis or two...])

  31. avatar
    thisoldhippie April 22, 2011 at 3:16 pm #

    Thanks for the information. I’ve been trying to get back here to say that all day, but work got in the way! I’ll be drafting my response letter to the paper. I’m a known “liberal” here so it will be read just so those who always disagree with me will have something to bitch about. Let ya’ll know how it goes.

  32. avatar
    Northland10 April 22, 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    nemocapn: Indeed, universities are breeding grounds for liberal dip****s, graduating libtards like Sarah Palin (University of Idaho) and George W. Bush (Yale University).

    Not to mention the “commie-marxist-liberal” Newt Gingrinch with his far left view PhD and teaching at a university, or two. Of course, then there is the Lefty Shrill Ken Starr who was Dean of Pepperdine Law School (that is part of a Pepperdine University) and now President of Baylor University.

    How does one, with that much hate and anger, get through the day without feeling sick? The sheer physical toll wrought from his relentless fury must be considerable. I’ve seen far less anger during chair versus pew arguments at church.

  33. avatar
    misha April 22, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    thisoldhippie: HELP! I need to write a letter in response to this piece o’ crap that was published in our local paper yesterday. While I know that all of this is debunked

    Obama born in Kenya? No:

    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-born-in-kenya-no.html

  34. avatar
    James M April 22, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    misha: Obama born in Kenya? No:

    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-born-in-kenya-no.html

    There are too many assumptions in that debunking, because there are too many undocumented facts to establish a timeline.

    If we can accept the premise enough to speculate on it, why do we guess she traveled by air? Long before I guessed at air travel, I’d put her on ships and boats. Also, why the assumption that she traveled while pregnant? Does someone have hard evidence placing her in the US before 8/61, and if so, how long before? If we can go down the road assuming that she traveled abroad without a passport, why does she have to be doing it while pregnant? And why does she have to immediately return? How soon after 8/61 do we place her in the US?

    Don’t get me wrong — I’m aware that there is no evidence that Dunham ever left the country before Obama was born — but the debunking is irresponsible because it makes too many assumptions about the means of travel available and about the timing of a round trip.

  35. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 22, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    James M: There are too many assumptions in that debunking, because there are too many undocumented facts to establish a timeline.

    I would call that a hypothetical rather than a debunking – rather than point out birther lies or errors of fact, it shows the implausibility of any Kenyan birth scenario. As accusers, the burden is on the birthers to provide some such scenarios (that fit the known timeline as you suggested [to the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence putting Dr. Dunham in Hawai'i after her wedding and before she went to Seattle except for Governor Abercrombie's recollection but Barack Obama Sr. took a class in summer session which ended on the President's birthday]) if they want their accusations to be taken seriously. Of course they cant do this – any scenario leads to a logical contradiction or some kind of evidence (INS records, RKBC [Real Kenyan Birth Certificate], State Dept. records, etc.) that should exist that the birthers cannot find (granted, the birthers are so incompetent that they probably couldn’t find valid evidence even if it existed…). You’re right that it doesn’t prove or debunk anything, but it does point out just how unlikely the birther scenarios are…

  36. avatar
    James M April 22, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    Slartibartfast: You’re right that it doesn’t prove or debunk anything, but it does point out just how unlikely the birther scenarios are…

    Can the birthers actually prove that Barack Sr. really ever went to Hawaii in the first place? (I realize this question might open the door to F. M. Davis :-)

  37. avatar
    misha April 22, 2011 at 9:40 pm #

    James M: Long before I guessed at air travel, I’d put her on ships and boats.

    Travel by ship was at least one month in each direction, and the cost would have been greater than air travel.

    Could you personally, right this moment, come up with $22,000 cash for a similar trip? You cannot finance even one dollar.

    Yes or no?

  38. avatar
    James M April 22, 2011 at 10:35 pm #

    misha: Travel by ship was at least one month in each direction, and the cost would have been greater than air travel.

    In the 1970s I traveled to and from the UK several times on ships. It was a week, not a month.

    Could you personally, right this moment, come up with $22,000 cash for a similar trip? You cannot finance even one dollar.

    Yes or no?

    No, but I’m not a grad student in anthropology with any kind of academic support for travel. Then again, when I did travel for academic purposes, I was able to do it in the open, with a passport, no need to hide my travels from anyone or smuggle any offspring back or anything like this…

    I do happen to have a close colleague from Mombasa, who was a postdoc in my department when I was in grad school. He somehow makes frequent trips to Kenya and lots of other places, and I’m sure it’s breathtakingly expensive, but he does manage. His main considerations when choosing employment are, in his words, working for “the government of America”, and in a city with an airport with 747s. Basically, if he is able to get directly on a British Airways 747 to London or whatever, his trips to Kenya aren’t that bad. Last time I checked in with him, he was happily working for “the government of America” in Silver Spring, so I reckon he gets a taxi to Dulles for those 747 flights. I mention it because I know it’s very much a primary consideration for him, and he would be working somewhere in Europe if that requirement couldn’t be met (and he has the kind of unique skill where he gets to decide where to live, the lucky bastard.)

    Whenever we get together we drink. I don’t know anyone who can out-drink my Kenyan friend. And when we drink, we toast “Ha-Ram-Bay”.

  39. avatar
    Northland10 April 22, 2011 at 10:53 pm #

    James M: Can the birthers actually prove that Barack Sr. really ever went to Hawaii in the first place? (I realize this question might open the door to F. M. Davis

    F.M. Davis and Malcolm X conspiracies do have the inconvenient aspect of the birthers stating that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen, though they tend to miss that connection. I pointed this out once in response on another blog. The commenter had no further comment.

  40. avatar
    misha April 22, 2011 at 11:02 pm #

    James M: In the 1970s I traveled to and from the UK several times on ships. It was a week, not a month.

    It was 1961, and it was from Hawaii to Kenya – 11K miles.

    They would have to go through the Panama Canal, traverse the Atlantic ocean, Mediterranean Sea, Suez Canal, Red Sea and finally the Arabian Sea. They would also make several port stops to discharge passengers, take new ones, and refuel. It’s closer to one month than one week. It was at least as expensive as air travel, most likely more.

    There was also the Mau Mau, tribal warfare, and yellow fever. No trans-Atlantic telephone service yet.

    Sorry, it did not happen.

  41. avatar
    James M April 23, 2011 at 12:17 am #

    Sorry, it did not happen.

    I agree wholeheartedly that it didn’t happen, but I also say it wasn’t *Mars*. People did make this kind of journey. Obama’s father did, several times, supposedly. I know lots of folks who traveled the world in the 60s and 70s, and none of them was particularly wealthy.

    Getting to Hawaii in the first place was a pretty big trip, but I know from experience that the hitch across Kansas was probably the worst part of it all. I wouldn’t mind flying from San Fran to Honolulu, or even to Tokyo or Jakarta, but I never want to see Kansas again. Four hours in a car crossing Nebraska, Kansas or Oklahoma is worse than 14 hours on a plane or 8 weeks on a ship.

    I don’t feel right taking the devil’s advocate side here, but I don’t think it’s productive to make a case that Ann wasn’t in Kenya because “she couldn’t have made the trip.” Other than the birth of Barack Obama the younger, I don’t know of any hard evidence that places her in Hawaii to begin with, so if (IF!) that was off the table, why would there need to be a story about a breakneck trip to and from Kenya happening within days of Obama’s birth? Why couldn’t she have been there for years before and after?

    I think what I’m wondering here is, when is the earliest that we an prove Ann was in Hawaii,and when is the soonest after the birth that we can prove she was there? I’m thinking that we only have speculation (she was enrolled in school, she had an address) but what proof do we really have other than the fact that she gave birth on a certain date at a certain time and certain place?

    (Please understand that I am fully aware that the fact that she gave birth at a certain time and place is the only meaningful fact of the matter, and that it is roundly and fully proven, I’m just curious about what else we know, and how we know it.)

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 23, 2011 at 12:45 am #

    James M: (Please understand that I am fully aware that the fact that she gave birth at a certain time and place is the only meaningful fact of the matter, and that it is roundly and fully proven, I’m just curious about what else we know, and how we know it.)

    There is confirmation from the University of Hawaii of her enrollment dates. There is confirmation date of her marriage in divorce documents. We have Abercrombie’s testimony of the Obama couple attending student functions shortly after the birth. We also have a city directory entry for Ann Dunham. I don’t have handy hyperlinks for all of those, but you can find them all.

  43. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 23, 2011 at 1:02 am #

    Northland10: F.M. Davis and Malcolm X conspiracies do have the inconvenient aspect of the birthers stating that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen, though they tend to miss that connection.I pointed this out once in response on another blog.The commenter had no further comment.

    I’m surprised they didn’t throw in George Foreman or Muhammed Ali since all black people look alike to them

  44. avatar
    Whatever4 April 23, 2011 at 4:22 am #

    misha: Travel by ship was at least one month in each direction, and the cost would have been greater than air travel.

    Could you personally, right this moment, come up with $22,000 cash for a similar trip? You cannot finance even one dollar.

    Yes or no?

    I started a thread last week on TFB about Kenya in 1961. http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=5728&hilit=kenya

    I found a copy of “Africa A to Z” by Robert S. Kane — the famous first comprehensive travel book on every country in Africa, copyright 1961. I posted what I found about Kenya, including visa requirements.

    In the first part of the book, Kane talks about how to get to Africa. It’s extremely East Coast USA centered, but you could take a Farrell Lines ship from NY to South Africa around the Cape of Good Hope and up to Mombasa for $650 (about $4900 in 2011 $). That trip would take 40 days. Farrell ships were combination cargo-passenger liners, “eminently comfortable,” informal and laid-back.

    Kane says ships were preferred for travelers resident in Africa who were “intent on getting to their destination and remaining there.”

  45. avatar
    Whatever4 April 23, 2011 at 4:28 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: There is confirmation from the University of Hawaii of her enrollment dates. There is confirmation date of her marriage in divorce documents. We have Abercrombie’s testimony of the Obama couple attending student functions shortly after the birth. We also have a city directory entry for Ann Dunham. I don’t have handy hyperlinks for all of those, but you can find them all.

    Marriage date was Feb 2, 1961.

  46. avatar
    Whatever4 April 23, 2011 at 5:22 am #

    James M: I agree wholeheartedly that it didn’t happen, but I also say it wasn’t *Mars*.People did make this kind of journey.Obama’s father did, several times, supposedly.I know lots of folks who traveled the world in the 60s and 70s, and none of them was particularly wealthy.

    I don’t believe Obama Sr. went back to Kenya until after he graduated Harvard. Couple of reasons.

    1.) The Kenya Student Airlift Programme’s biggest problem was raising money for airfare to get the students from Africa to the USA. Fewer flights per student meant more students could come.

    2.) The letter from Obama Sr. to Tom Mboya in WND (I know, I know…) says Obama Sr. finished his BA and MA in three years instead of 5-6. He says he would be going to Harvard for 3 years then going home. That’s a pretty intense schedule with not much chance to take the long trip home. http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=226349

    3.) In an interview, first wife Keziah says he left on the airlift from Embakasi airport in 1959, sent gifts and letters home, and came home briefly in 1965. He left to set up his office, but kept coming back to Keziah. One child was born in 1958, one in 1960, no more until 1968 and 1970 (although the family has some doubts if they are Sr.’s kids, Keziah doesn’t). With how fertile Sr. was, lack of children counts as evidence of absence in my book… http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506338/Barack-Obamas-stepmother-living-Bracknell-reveals-close-bond—mother.html

    I haven’t seen any reports of Sr. actually going back to Kenya before he left Harvard. Has anyone else?

  47. avatar
    Whatever4 April 23, 2011 at 5:33 am #

    Whoop, in the same article Kezia says: “The first time I met Barack Jr was when he came to Kenya in 1985.” Also Obama Jr’s mother “came to Kenya after Barack Sr died and she and I became great friends. She was like a sister to me.” They wrote each other often. If Ann had come to Kenya and gave birth, Kezia would have met her.

    As for the marriage: “Barack was also worried about what his father would think because I was so young, but he gave us his approval. He sent my mother and father 14 cows for my dowry. Barack’s father was only a cook so it was a big sacrifice. Very soon after, we were married.”

    Kenya has several different kinds of marriage, with different degrees of permanence. If this was a traditional tribal ceremony, I wonder if it would be considered a legal marriage?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506338/Barack-Obamas-stepmother-living-
    Bracknell-reveals-close-bond—mother.html#ixzz1KKxHkd8t

  48. avatar
    The Magic M April 23, 2011 at 5:37 am #

    > I’m surprised they didn’t throw in George Foreman or Muhammed Ali since all black people look alike to them

    Well, some of them did throw in the Thai king…

    > F.M. Davis and Malcolm X conspiracies do have the inconvenient aspect of the birthers stating that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen, though they tend to miss that connection.

    Some of them don’t, but they simply jump ship and claim that in that case, Obama would be ineligible because he lied about his father and thus committed fraud. Yeah, right.

  49. avatar
    Howard D Doyle April 24, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The whole $2 million claim is absurd. It doesn’t cost $2 million to have three lawsuits dismissed. I detail this in the article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/obamas-legal-fees/

    In this RollCall article it names Perkins Coie as the lawfirm handling all the FEC investigations…

    http://www.rollcall.com/news/FEC-Launches-Obama-Campaign-Audie-205014-1.html?zkMobileView=false

    From the article…

    The lion’s share of Obama’s legal spending went to Perkins Coie, a well-known Democratic legal and accounting firm. Perkins Coie is representing the Obama campaign in all major legal matters, including seven of the FEC’s known investigations involving the White House bid.

  50. avatar
    Robert Clark April 25, 2011 at 12:25 am #

    Whatever4:
    Whoop, in the same article Kezia says: “The first time I met Barack Jr was when he came to Kenya in 1985.”Also Obama Jr’s mother “came to Kenya after Barack Sr died and she and I became great friends. She was like a sister to me.” They wrote each other often. If Ann had come to Kenya and gave birth, Kezia would have met her.

    Whatever4, please, I’m getting killed here. What are the “magic words”?
    Abracadabra? Seem Seem Salabeem? Open Sesame?
    What???

    Bob

  51. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 25, 2011 at 12:32 am #

    Robert Clark: Whatever4, please, I’m getting killed here. What are the “magic words”?Abracadabra? Seem Seem Salabeem? Open Sesame?What???

    Bob

    On this site, the magic words are: the truth shall set ye free…

  52. avatar
    Robert Clark April 25, 2011 at 1:00 am #

    Whatever4: I haven’t seen any reports of Sr. actually going back to Kenya before he left Harvard. Has anyone else

    It seems unlikley that Ann Dunham would have traveled alone to Kenya. Then Obama Sr. would have traveled with her. Looking at Dunham’s passport info hits a roadblock because that information was destroyed (unintentional it’s claimed along with other documents to save space.) So can we look at the passport and/or visa info on Obama Sr.?

    Bob

  53. avatar
    Robert Clark April 25, 2011 at 1:01 am #

    Slartibartfast: On this site, the magic words are: the truth shall set ye free…

    Also, my advice to Obama.
    Set the original long form birth certificate free.

    Bob

  54. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 25, 2011 at 1:03 am #

    Robert Clark: Also, my advice to Obama.
    Set the original long form birth certificate free.

    I sincerely doubt President Obama reads this blog.

  55. avatar
    misha April 25, 2011 at 1:05 am #

    Robert Clark: Set the original long form birth certificate free.

    Set farm animals free.

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 25, 2011 at 1:17 am #

    Robert Clark: It seems unlikley that Ann Dunham would have traveled alone to Kenya. Then Obama Sr. would have traveled with her. Looking at Dunham’s passport info hits a roadblock because that information was destroyed (unintentional it’s claimed along with other documents to save space.) So can we look at the passport and/or visa info on Obama Sr.?

    1. It seems unlikely that she would have traveled to Kenya at all.
    2. There is no evidence that Ann Dunham had a passport in 1961. Unless you know it existed, you cannot say it was destroyed. If it was destroyed then it was intentionally destroyed along with all the other intentionally destroyed records to save space.
    3. There is a reasonable possibility that if passport data ever existed, then it still exists in the form of microfilm passport issuance cards. There is a FOIA on appeal for this.
    4. If you want to look at passport data for Obama Sr. you would have to ask Kenya. He would not have needed a visa to travel to Kenya and back.
    5. US Entry/Exit records do not go back that far.

  57. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 25, 2011 at 1:17 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I sincerely doubt President Obama reads this blog.

    I really hope that he has more important things to do…

  58. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 25, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    Whatever4: Whoop, in the same article Kezia says

    And Obama’s uncle Sayid says precisely the same thing, both in a video interview and in Jerome Corsi’s book, The Obama Nation. Yes, Corsi went to Kenya and wrote a smear book, and despite birther claims that all of Kenya knows Obama was born there, Corsi has not one word about Obama being born in Kenya in that book.

  59. avatar
    Robert Clark April 25, 2011 at 1:49 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: 1. It seems unlikely that she would have traveled to Kenya at all.
    2. There is no evidence that Ann Dunham had a passport in 1961. Unless you know it existed, you cannot say it was destroyed. If it was destroyed then it was intentionally destroyed along with all the other intentionally destroyed records to save space.
    3. There is a reasonable possibility that if passport data ever existed, then it still exists in the form of microfilm passport issuance cards. There is a FOIA on appeal for this.
    4. If you want to look at passport data for Obama Sr. you would have to ask Kenya. He would not have needed a visa to travel to Kenya and back.
    5. US Entry/Exit records do not go back that far.

    About point 1.), I seem to remember reading that her passport application in 1965 was a renewal which would mean she had an earlier one at some point.
    About 3.) the response to that other guy’s FOIA request, whose name escapes me, for the passport application files on Dunham was resolved months ago, with the fact that the Dunham files were destroyed along with others to save space. Your FOIA was filed soon after his with what you might think would be a simpler request: just if she had one. But yours still has not been resolved. Do you see any significance to the fact that it’s taking longer for what should be a simpler request?
    About 5.), where did you find out how far back exit/entry records go back?

    Bob

  60. avatar
    Robert Clark April 25, 2011 at 1:51 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: And Obama’s uncle Sayid says precisely the same thing, both in a video interview and in Jerome Corsi’s book, The Obama Nation. Yes, Corsi went to Kenya and wrote a smear book, and despite birther claims that all of Kenya knows Obama was born there, Corsi has not one word about Obama being born in Kenya in that book.

    Presumably he will mention it in his upcoming book! :-)

    Bob

  61. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 25, 2011 at 2:00 am #

    Robert Clark: Also, my advice to Obama.Set the original long form birth certificate free.

    President Obama has told the truth (at least with regards to his birth in Hawai’i) – that’s why the birthers are ultimately impotent against him.

  62. avatar
    Keith April 25, 2011 at 2:01 am #

    misha: They would have to go through the Panama Canal,

    They could have gone the other way, via Hong Kong or Jakarta or Manilla (or any comination) and across the Indian Ocean.

  63. avatar
    Keith April 25, 2011 at 2:07 am #

    James M: I don’t think it’s productive to make a case that Ann wasn’t in Kenya because “she couldn’t have made the trip.”

    Except that it would have been physically impossible due to the known time constraints which others can rehash – Misha has done that before.

    There is also the little problem of vaccination requirements that would have to be met before she would be let onto the plane. Since those vaccinations cannot be given to a pregnant woman, and there is no way she could, at that stage of her pregnancy, hide her pregnancy, she would not have been allowed onto the plane.

    The whole Stanley went to Africa nonsense doesn’t have any possibility of credibility no matter how you look at it.

  64. avatar
    misha April 25, 2011 at 2:10 am #

    misha: They would have to go through the Panama Canal

    Keith: They could have gone the other way, via Hong Kong or Jakarta or Manilla (or any comination) and across the Indian Ocean.

    Yes, but if they went your way, they risked falling off the edge.

  65. avatar
    Keith April 25, 2011 at 2:11 am #

    Robert Clark: So can we look at the passport and/or visa info on Obama Sr.?

    You’ll have to talk to the Kenyan government about that.

  66. avatar
    misha April 25, 2011 at 2:15 am #

    Robert Clark: So can we look at the passport and/or visa info on Obama Sr.?

    Embassy of Kenya
    2249 R Street Northwest
    Washington D.C., DC 20008-4028
    (202) 387-6102

    Let us know what you find out.

  67. avatar
    nc1 April 25, 2011 at 4:12 am #

    Robert Clark: It seems unlikley that Ann Dunham would have traveled alone to Kenya. Then Obama Sr. would have traveled with her. Looking at Dunham’s passport info hits a roadblock because that information was destroyed (unintentional it’s claimed along with other documents to save space.) So can we look at the passport and/or visa info on Obama Sr.?

    Bob

    You bought the lie that US passport documents were destroyed?

    Passport documents have 100 years retention period. Her passport information sits in a government archive.

  68. avatar
    Bovril April 25, 2011 at 6:00 am #

    And just EXACTLY what wonderful information do yiu expect to find?

    A passport was or was not issued (well, lets be honest you only believe one was issued and any refutation of that you will ignore)

    And……?

    There are no visa stamnps, there is no entry/exit data, there is no records of countries entered or left or dates or times etc

    So….what is it you expect to see?

  69. avatar
    obsolete April 25, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    nc1: You bought the lie that US passport documents were destroyed?

    nc1- Since it is obvious that Obama is so powerful now that EVERYONE in government and the media is covering for him- what chance do you have?
    None.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 25, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    nc1: You bought the lie that US passport documents were destroyed?

    No, you bought the lie that they were not destroyed. There is contemporary evidence that they were planning to destroy those records, discussed on this site before. I think you would do well to try to distinguish between things you have reason to believe and things you just want to believe. It would make your writing both more objective and less objectionable.

  71. avatar
    nc1 April 25, 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: No, you bought the lie that they were not destroyed. There is contemporary evidence that they were planning to destroy those records, discussed on this site before. I think you would do well to try to distinguish between things you have reason to believe and things you just want to believe. It would make your writing both more objective and less objectionable.

    There is no government document ordering the destruction of records. There is only a claim that records were destroyed. How could they destroy documents without having a paper trail of the process followed? It did not happen based on verbal communications.

    Do I need to remind you of your own request for Obama mother’s passport documents? If records were destroyed why did you send a follow up request for it?

  72. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 25, 2011 at 12:19 pm #

    nc1: There is no government document ordering the destruction of records.There is only a claim that records were destroyed.How could they destroy documents without having a paper trail of the process followed?It did not happen based on verbal communications.

    Do I need to remind you of your own request for Obama mother’s passport documents?If records were destroyed why did you send a follow up request for it?

    What a load of lies and misinformation from a stupid, bigoted troll with no credibility whatsoever – once again you’re wrong you moron.

  73. avatar
    Whatever4 April 25, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    Robert Clark: Whatever4, please, I’m getting killed here. What are the “magic words”?Abracadabra? Seem Seem Salabeem? Open Sesame?What???

    Bob

    Sorry, Easter Weekend and all. The magic words are “Complete birth record,” “genealogy research,” and “plugh”.

  74. avatar
    Whatever4 April 25, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    nc1: There is no government document ordering the destruction of records.There is only a claim that records were destroyed.How could they destroy documents without having a paper trail of the process followed?It did not happen based on verbal communications.

    Do I need to remind you of your own request for Obama mother’s passport documents?If records were destroyed why did you send a follow up request for it?

    I believe Strunk asked for passport applications, while Doc C asked for passports issued. There’s a difference in retention periods.

  75. avatar
    Robert Clark April 26, 2011 at 5:37 am #

    Whatever4: Sorry, Easter Weekend and all. The magic words are “Complete birth record,” “genealogy research,” and “plugh”.

    Thanks for that. For the uninitiated, which included me until I googled it, “plugh” is a magic word from some of the online adventure games, such as ADVENT. Whatever4 is being humorous with that last one.
    As I suspected you can get the original long form birth certificate in PA by saying you’re doing genealogical research on your own family background, with perhaps an additional admonition that it has to be the complete birth record.

    Bob

99999 00000
?????????