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Orly Taitz: uncensored!

Yes, Orly Taitz, dangerous on the highway and in the court room, has filed yet another lawsuit, Taitz v. Astrue, and failed to redact Barack Obama’s social-security number. She didn’t even try.

This is a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, trying to get at Obama’s Social Security records.

Let’s see what the basis of her complaint is:

  • Obama was a Muslim according to Indonesian school record
  • Birth records in Hawaii can be gotten by statement of one relative
  • Hawaii allows late registrations
  • Hawaii short forms don’t have hospital names on them
  • Governor Abercrombie says Obama has no long form
  • No one has found the reported birth announcements in the Hawaii newspapers (?!?)

Remarkably, the complaint is just 11 pages. The following has been changed from the original complaint to the first amended complaint.

The document linked in a previous version of this article is no longer available.

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85 Responses to Orly Taitz: uncensored!

  1. avatar
    Lupin May 3, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    I’ll say it again, why hasn’t she been disbarred yet? Isn’t it obvious that she is a lunatic?

  2. avatar
    JoZeppy May 3, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    Lupin: I’ll say it again, why hasn’t she been disbarred yet?

    I ask myself the same question every day.

  3. avatar
    Lupin May 3, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    If I recall correctly, complaint(s?) have been filed with the CA bar. Why haven’t they acted on it?

    No, seriously, this really hurts the profession.

  4. avatar
    gorefan May 3, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    “No one has found the reported birth announcements in the Hawaii newspapers (?!?)”

    I suspect this has to do with the belief that someone has gone around to all the libraries of the world and switched the microfilms of the two newspapers.

    Orly wants to see an original newspaper with the announcements, not simply a copy of a microfilm copy.

  5. avatar
    Mary Brown May 3, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    Orly is delusional. She is a-what does Misha call her-a refusnik. I know she won’t like this but she displays personality traits rather like certain Arab dictators. She, like they, inhabit a kind of reality-fantasy world. It is rather like that room Star Trek characters went into so they could enjoy their favorite make-believe. They knew they were participating in an adult “pretend” ( a word one of my five-year-olds used to describe hiding from a tornado in the the classroom kitchen.) Orly doesn’t and never will.

  6. avatar
    Mary Brown May 3, 2011 at 11:24 am #

    Ouch, excuse the spelling.

  7. avatar
    Daniel May 3, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    Lupin:
    If I recall correctly, complaint(s?) have been filed with the CA bar. Why haven’t they acted on it?

    For the same reason we keep following her antics….. idle curiosity.

    I suspect they have a running bookie board on what the hell she will do next.

  8. avatar
    richCares May 3, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    i Hope my favorite song comes true.
    “Ding Dong the Witch is…………..”

  9. avatar
    Bovril May 3, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    DEATH THREAT……..8-)

  10. avatar
    G May 3, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    Lupin: I’ll say it again, why hasn’t she been disbarred yet? Isn’t it obvious that she is a lunatic?

    JoZeppy: I ask myself the same question every day.

    Ditto!

  11. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett May 3, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    let her feeeeeeeeeneeeeeeeeesh!

  12. avatar
    Jimmy May 3, 2011 at 1:55 pm #

    it all won’t matter soon ……

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_k9hJeubGc&feature=player_embedded

  13. avatar
    The Magic M May 3, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    > Ditto!

    Well, some people can obviously play the system for a long time. Like Theresa Cao who’s been through how many, like, five public defenders now?

    > For the same reason we keep following her antics….. idle curiosity.

    Why would they? They should know she’ll drag the next unsuspecting client down with her. *That’s* why you disbar lunatics like her, not because courts don’t like a little entertainment.

    I vividly remember a case in my country where a retired commander-turned-lawyer was finally disbarred because he used every client’s case to fight his personal crusade against the judicial system, typically starting with a few Nazi comparisons and then wandering off into “the state has no legitimacy” la-la-land.

  14. avatar
    DP May 3, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    The weirdest thing is she genuinely believes all her clap trap. How out of it does she have to be for that to be true?

  15. avatar
    Tarrant May 3, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    DP:
    The weirdest thing is she genuinely believes all her clap trap. How out of it does she have to be for that to be true?

    Yes that’s the saddest thing about all of this to me. There are those out there that push this stuff just for money or notoriety or simply out of dislike for the President but don’t REALLY believe it – like Farah/WND. Then there are those who see it and believe it because they don’t like the President but for whom it’s just one reason of many and don’t really care except they can push it as one more. Both these groups are the people that shift from one birther theory to the netxt as one is debunked.

    The saddest to me are people like Orly or butterdezillion who really believe they have done the research and believe wholeheartedly in what they’ve “concluded” and “discovered” and will never be convinced that what they have concluded is simply wrong.

  16. avatar
    G May 3, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    Tarrant: The saddest to me are people like Orly or butterdezillion who really believe they have done the research and believe wholeheartedly in what they’ve “concluded” and “discovered” and will never be convinced that what they have concluded is simply wrong.

    That is because Orly & BZ are truly, certifiably insane. Bat-sh*t crazy isn’t just a cute adjective to describe them. We’re dealing with clear signs of severe mental illness.

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 3, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    Mary Brown:
    Ouch, excuse the spelling.

    FIFY.

    I fix around 20 spelling/wrong word/formatting errors in comments on the blog every day. I don’t check a fix everything, but i get some that stand out.

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 3, 2011 at 3:41 pm #

    Lupin: No, seriously, this really hurts the profession.

    A lot of us ask how the California Bar tolerates Taitz and I have yet to hear any good reason beyond “they are slow.” What I don’t follow is how the courts allow her to get away with lies in her complaints, such as the claim that Abercrombie said Obama’s birth record could not be found.

  19. avatar
    JoZeppy May 3, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    DP: The weirdest thing is she genuinely believes all her clap trap. How out of it does she have to be for that to be true?

    Orly was born in the Soviet Union. She came to the US in 1987. Her entire understanding of US law, or even what all learned in high school civics class came from a mail order law school. Also take into account, that was before 2002, and all she’s done with her law degree from 2002 until last year was defend herself against malpractice suits, so she probably forgotten what little she learned from her mail order law school. Add to that Orly’s clear lack of intellectual prowess, and obvious prejudices and bigotry, I’m not surprised by anything that comes out of her mouth.

    Nuts like butterdezillion…well, the folks that think there are secret messages hidden in the law, that no one else, including the legal/scholarly communities have noticed. And despite that all these people with JDs, PhDs LLMs, and SJDs have missed it, armed with their high school diplomas, they will find the truth hidden deep in the law.

    While not a 100% fit here, it reminds me of quote from one of prior junk law hobbies (tax protesters), “Some people believe with great fervor preposterous things that just happen to coincide with their self-interest.” Coleman v. Commissioner, 791 F.2d 68, 69 (7th Cir. 1986). I guess here, self-interest is their confirmation bias.

  20. avatar
    G May 3, 2011 at 5:28 pm #

    Jimmy: Planet X 1-4 Videos absolutely incredible1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0bj76389U&feature=player_embedded 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjjrStDxTrc&NR=1 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5TOmRD_V48&NR=1 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNZIyfBChmA&NR=1

    Or Absolutely Kooky. A mere conspiracy of not even junk science, but bunk science.

  21. avatar
    G May 3, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    Jimmy: it all won’t matter soon ……http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_k9hJeubGc&feature=player_embedded

    *sigh* Cripes on Toast…

    I’ve mentioned many times on this site and other places that at some point, the conspiracy arguments would start moving to a bunch of “End of The World” type talk as we approach the 2012 election…

    Planet X is just one version of this total Kooky thinking.

    Of course, we’ve got the Kooks in their Caravans currently going around the country broadcasting that the “End of The World” will begin on May 21, 2011 with some sort of massive earthquake resulting in the Rapture of 2% of people, zombie dead (or something like that, I try not to listen to these folks too closely) popping up everywhere, followed by 5 months of devastating “hell-on-earth” Tribulation, leading to the entire world being consumed by fire and taking the remaining 6.5 billion of us with it on October 21, 2011…

    Of course, after all those dates pass and we are all fine and dandy, there are several 2012 dates that the Nutters will point to as their next Shiny Doomsday Object, culminating in their favorite date to propheticize about, 12/21/12…

    What exactly is it about the 21st of the month that appeals to the Doomsday Crowd anyways?

    …Countdown to next birther meme being pushed to the forefront soon – Obama as the Antichrist…

    I mean really, what else do they have left?

  22. avatar
    Gary Miller May 3, 2011 at 5:43 pm #

    Taitz and Butterdezillion – two very sad cases.

  23. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 3, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Jimmy: Planet X 1-4 Videos absolutely incredible

    Yes. In the sense that they completely lack credibility (as well as relevance).

  24. avatar
    Jimmy May 3, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    this is kookier than the other stuff

    http://rickmick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/map.jpg

  25. avatar
    Ragout May 3, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    I see you Obots are delighting in ad hominem attacks on “kooky” Orly. But I don’t see anyone refuting her evidence. Orly looked up Obama’s social security number (the very same number he used on his draft registration) using the Social Security Number Verification Service (the system employers use to check that their employees are citizens or legal residents) and found that his SSN failed to verify! What more evidence that Obama is an illegal alien could you ask for!

    It’s also worth noting Orly’s bravery in checking Obama out using the SSN Verification Service. Unless Obama is an employee of Orly’s, or an employee of whoever looked up Obama’s information, using this database is illegal. But Orly is apparently willing to risk the penalties of violating this law in order to insure that our country has a legitimate, constitutional President. Thanks Orly!

  26. avatar
    G May 3, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    Jimmy: this is kookier than the other stuff http://rickmick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/map.jpg

    It is definitely Kooky. On that we agree.

  27. avatar
    G May 3, 2011 at 11:55 pm #

    Ragout: I see you Obots are delighting in ad hominem attacks on “kooky” Orly. But I don’t see anyone refuting her evidence. Orly looked up Obama’s social security number (the very same number he used on his draft registration) using the Social Security Number Verification Service (the system employers use to check that their employees are citizens or legal residents) and found that his SSN failed to verify! What more evidence that Obama is an illegal alien could you ask for!It’s also worth noting Orly’s bravery in checking Obama out using the SSN Verification Service. Unless Obama is an employee of Orly’s, or an employee of whoever looked up Obama’s information, using this database is illegal. But Orly is apparently willing to risk the penalties of violating this law in order to insure that our country has a legitimate, constitutional President. Thanks Orly!

    Obviously, you haven’t spent any time reading this site.

    Just about EVERY stupid argument Orly’s made has been debunked in great detail on here.

    Take a look at the Features option off the menu to catch up or the Quick Reference at the bottom of the page. Heck, on the right side of the frame, there is a list of links to each of these crazy conspiracies as well as a link to folks such as Orly.

    Spend some time doing a little research before you shoot off your mouth and come across uneducated.

    Bottom line – All of Orly’s claims are utterly bunk and complete nutso nonsense.

    But thanks for playing and thanks for being so delusionally gullible…

  28. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett May 4, 2011 at 1:29 am #

    Be kind to the poor sauce. He has nothing left.

  29. avatar
    NBC May 4, 2011 at 1:40 am #

    Orly has been advertising his SSN so many times that the Social Security Administration had no other choice but to retire the number.

    Come on, don’t be fooled by poor logic, the IRS and others check the SSN everytime one files.

    Fool, and I mean that in the nicest meaning of the word. You have allowed others to make you look this way.

  30. avatar
    NBC May 4, 2011 at 1:41 am #

    Remember that the SSN has shown up consistently at all addresses Obama resided at. So those who claim that he used a fake SSN, even though he is a natural born citizen, are using poor logic at best. And the 1890 DOB? There is another DOB 1990 assigned to the SSN, both however are linked to a single name: Barack Hussein Obama.

    GIGO

  31. avatar
    NBC May 4, 2011 at 1:42 am #

    Jimmy: this is kookier than the other stuff

    It surely looks like one of those high resolution naval maps.

    ROTFL… Such idiots

  32. avatar
    Ragout May 4, 2011 at 3:11 am #

    NBC:
    Orly has been advertising his SSN so many times that the Social Security Administration had no other choice but to retire the number.

    And your evidence for this claim is what, exactly?

  33. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 4, 2011 at 3:21 am #

    Ragout: And your evidence for this claim is what, exactly?

    What does it matter? Let Orly get it in front of a court – it will only speed her disbarment. All she has is illegally obtained evidence of nothing untoward. In any case, birthers have no grounds to question anyone else’s evidence – it would be blatantly hypocritical since you don’t have any evidence for your theories – while NBC has earned the benefit of the doubt…

  34. avatar
    The Magic M May 4, 2011 at 5:55 am #

    > and found that his SSN failed to verify! What more evidence that Obama is an illegal alien could you ask for

    And you think the IRS is “in on the conspiracy” and simply ignoring the fact that Obama files his tax records using a non-existent SSN? You must be truly deluded.
    Besides, if really the whole world is part of the conspiracy, why didn’t they just issue a couple of SSNs to Obama that do not cause any suspicion? Don’t you ever get to the point where you realize your “logic” doesn’t add up anymore? A sane person then goes back to check his axioms – in your case the “he is using someone else’s SSN” over “the SSN databases are not totally reliable as they state themselves”.

  35. avatar
    Northland10 May 4, 2011 at 7:20 am #

    Slartibartfast: Ragout: And your evidence for this claim is what, exactly?

    What does it matter? Let Orly get it in front of a court – it will only speed her disbarment

    She does tend to slow this down by not serving the US Government properly. She may have sent it to the correct office on her latest attempt.

  36. avatar
    Ragout May 4, 2011 at 7:28 am #

    The Magic M:
    > and found that his SSN failed to verify! What more evidence that Obama is an illegal alien could you ask for

    And you think the IRS is “in on the conspiracy” and simply ignoring the fact that Obama files his tax records using a non-existent SSN?

    I have no idea which of his numerous SSNs Obama uses to file his taxes. What makes you think he used the same SSN on his taxes as he used on his draft registration?

  37. avatar
    G May 4, 2011 at 7:32 am #

    Ragout: I have no idea which of his numerous SSNs Obama uses to file his taxes. What makes you think he used the same SSN on his taxes as he used on his draft registration?

    …and further down the rabbit hole of delusion we go…

    *facepalm*

  38. avatar
    Scientist May 4, 2011 at 7:38 am #

    Ragout: I have no idea which of his numerous SSNs Obama uses to file his taxes. What makes you think he used the same SSN on his taxes as he used on his draft registration?

    There is no evidence that Barack Obama has >1 SSN (until Orly’s broadcasting of it necessitated a new one, as would be done for any of us who were victims of such an assault). The SSN on his draft registration is the one he files taxes under. How do we know? Simple. It’s the one that appears on the property records for his house in Chicago, When you deduct mortgage interest and property taxes, which the President does, the SSN on the 1098 (the mortgage interest report issued by the bank) has to match the SSN on the return. If they don’t IRS disallows the deduction. This is the basic matching that IRS computers do with every return.

    Really? Is this the best you can do? Wouldn’t it be simpler to drop these machinations and, if you disagree with the President on policy, make your case?

  39. avatar
    Suranis May 4, 2011 at 8:24 am #

    Ragout, you do realize that the reason Orly says Obama has so many SSNs is that she keeps finding that the people tho owned the “extra ones” she thinks he stole from the death index were to a man still alive when he applied for his SSN number. You see she looked for old numbers that was still active, and then ASSUMED that the reason they were still active is that Obama was using them. Rather than the guy was still alive.

    Besides, you do know that his father, Barack Hussien Obama, lived in Connecticut for a while, right.

  40. avatar
    Suranis May 4, 2011 at 8:39 am #

    Jimmy:
    Planet X 1-4 Videos absolutely incredible

    These are based off the Nemisis star hypothesis. Which I actually love by the way (I’d love for the solar system to be a binary), but is useless to the end of the world types as if true, Nemisis is heading away from us at present and wont be back for over 10 million years.

    Now there is some mathematical evidence of a Jovian class planet somewhere beyond the orbit of Uranus, but again that object would be moving slightly away from us in its orbit, rather than swooping into the solar system like an avenging angel.

    I’ve never understood why people look forward to the end of the world. Day to day living provides enough challenge all by itself. its much more satisfying to try and make the world better in the time we have left. But I guess that’s a lot more scary.

  41. avatar
    The Magic M May 4, 2011 at 9:10 am #

    > I’ve never understood why people look forward to the end of the world.

    Because they hate themselves and their miserable lives and are willing to believe anyone (church, cult leaders, …) who tell them the next world will be much better.

  42. avatar
    The Magic M May 4, 2011 at 9:17 am #

    > What makes you think he used the same SSN on his taxes as he used on his draft registration?

    What makes you think no-one checked the SSN on the draft registration and found it “doesn’t exist”?

    I repeat myself, every SSN database says its data are unreliable as they are compiled from many different sources with different and often intransparent quality.

    The funny thing is the birthers never made a counter-test – take 10 uncommon names at random, then check how many SSN numbers you can associate with them in all the databases used to find the “39 Obama SSNs”.
    After that, you can either conclude almost every person with an uncommon name is committing massive SSN fraud and identity theft – or that your base assumption (“the databases are never wrong”) is false. Of course birfers won’t select #2 as it would damage their conspiracy religion.

  43. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 4, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    Suranis:
    Besides, you do know that his father, Barack Hussien Obama, lived in Connecticut for a while, right.

    I do not know that, nor do I see how it is relevant. Obama Sr. was long departed from the US when Obama II got his Social Security number.

  44. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 4, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    Suranis: Besides, you do know that his father, Barack Hussien Obama, lived in Connecticut for a while, right.

    Interesting point. Eisenhower’s SSN, which he applied for when he had retired to Pennsylvania, actually is from … California. Does Orly think Ike was a fraud?

    I do not know why Ike keeps doing things Obama did. Perhaps the Tardis is involved.

  45. avatar
    Ragout May 4, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    Scientist: The SSN on his draft registration is the one he files taxes under.How do we know? Simple.It’s the one that appears on the property records for his house in Chicago,When you deduct mortgage interest and property taxes, which the President does, the SSN on the 1098 (the mortgage interest report issued by the bank) has to match the SSN on the return.If they don’t IRS disallows the deduction.This is the basic matching that IRS computers do with every return.

    Even if it were true that his SSNs matched on his 1040 and mortgage 1098, all that would prove is that he used the same SSNs on his taxes and his mortgage. It certainly does not prove that these numbers are the same as the one he used on his draft registration.

    But of course, your assumption that Obama must have used the same SSN on his mortgage and his income taxes is demonstrably false.

    1. You don’t need an SSN to own property (foreigners can own property in the US)
    2. You don’t need an SSN to pay taxes (an ITIN suffices for foreigners)
    3. Obama’s Chicago residence is not owned in Obama’s name. It’s owned by the “Northern Trust Company.” See this WND article. Since I know you Obots are skeptical of WND, note that the article includes a link to the Cook County Recorder of Deeds, which anyone can use to look up Obama’s mortgage records.

  46. avatar
    richCares May 4, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    RAGOUT can you givv us the source of your KoolAid, it seems it’s as good as hashhish

  47. avatar
    Scientist May 4, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    The entire SSN thing is even more ridiculous than Taitz’s other nonsense. No one appointed her Social Security Enforcement Officer. She is a private citizen. If she believes that someone is committing Social Security fraud, she can file a report with SSA, including any evidence that she has. That’s it. After that, the ball is in their court.

    If I believe the contractor who worked on my kitchen isn’t reporting his income on his taxes. I can report him oi the IRS and after that, it’s up to them. I can’t subpoena his bank records, nor demand that IRS tell me whether they audited him. They might have looked at what I sent them and decided it was garbage.

  48. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 4, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I do not know that, nor do I see how it is relevant. Obama Sr. was long departed from the US when Obama II got his Social Security number.

    Database cramp? Suppose Obama had been asked to give his father’s address – and filled in the last known address – the one in Connecticut – or did not fill anything in and someone at Social Security found the CT address.

    I still believe it was an entering error by a typist. But if someone later had to do second check on the numbers – a father’s address in Connecticut may have caused the number to pass the check.

    Same thing with Ike – one of his last regular jobs before campaigning for president was in California.

  49. avatar
    Greg May 4, 2011 at 11:18 am #

    1. The database Orly looked at acknowledges it makes mistakes. Its disclaimer might as well say “for amusement purposes only.”
    2. The SSA says there is no geographical value to their numbers.

    Orly has two pieces of evidence that, together, add up to zip. I’d say that with these two factoids and $3.50, she could buy a cup of coffee, but businesses have a right to refuse service to people who insist on telling long, irrelevant, stories to their tellers, so I’m not sure about the coffee.

  50. avatar
    Scientist May 4, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    Ragout: 1. You don’t need an SSN to own property (foreigners can own property in the US)
    2. You don’t need an SSN to pay taxes (an ITIN suffices for foreigners)
    3. Obama’s Chicago residence is not owned in Obama’s name. It’s owned by the “Northern Trust Company.” See this WND article. Since I know you Obots are skeptical of WND, note that the article includes a link to the Cook County Recorder of Deeds, which anyone can use to look up Obama’s mortgage records.

    You don’t need an SSN to own property, but you need one to deduct mortgage interest and property taxes, which Obama does and has done every years (see his returns Schedule A). And he’s not some guy working under the table for cash. His income is all from legitimate sources-his salary ans president and mostly from book royalties, all of which is paid b well-known publishing conglomerates. And Northern Trust doesn’t own the property; they are the mortgage holder. Jeez, you guys all live in Mom and Dad’s basement so you don’t know about mortgages I guess. As for having the tax invoices sent to your lawyer’s office, many very busy people do exactly that. You think Charlie Sheen or Bill Gates sit down and write out checks every month? All their affairs are handled by their accountants and lawyers. For Pete’s sake, are you raelly an ignoramus or just pretending?

  51. avatar
    Majority Will May 4, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    Rational people will never take birthers seriously for a very good reason.

  52. avatar
    Ragout May 4, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Scientist: Northern Trust doesn’t own the property; they are the mortgage holder.

    Northern Trust (a bank) made the mortgage loan to Obama’s trust called Northern Trust No. 10209. The property is held in the name of the trust. Due to various shady aspects of the deal, this has all been widely reported. If you keep spouting off without knowing the facts, you’re just going to keep embarrassing yourself.

    From the Times of London: “The Obamas bought the mock Georgian mansion in a trust that concealed their identity behind the name Northern Trust No 10209. Bill Burton, Mr Obama’s spokesman, told The Times that they did so for “a measure of privacy” and said they were the only beneficiaries of the trust. ”

    You are, however, quite correct that I’m not familiar with this type of deal, just as you obviously are unfamiliar. Like most property owners, I used my own name on the mortgage, deed, and so on. I didn’t hide the transaction behind the name of a sole-beneficiary trust.

  53. avatar
    Keith May 4, 2011 at 11:50 am #

    G: It is definitely Kooky.On that we agree.

    Looks like a hypothetical of the the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets melting. Such an event is predicted to cause a 90 METER sea level rise.

    It isn’t kooky at all. Just an extremely worst case scenario.

  54. avatar
    Sef May 4, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: Database cramp? Suppose Obama had been asked to give his father’s address – and filled in the last known address – the one in Connecticut – or did not fill anything in and someone at Social Security found the CT address.

    Why would a Harvard student have a CT address???

  55. avatar
    Scientist May 4, 2011 at 12:12 pm #

    Ragout: Northern Trust (a bank) made the mortgage loan to Obama’s trust called Northern Trust No. 10209.

    So there are at least 10208 other people who have used such trusts. In fact “Northern Trust” has “Trust” in their name because they actually specialize in such transactions. Trusts are a dime a dozen among the very wealthy, which Obama is (as is anyone who runs for President). If Trump runs (he won’t) you would see a tangled mess of corporations, trusts and the like that would make your head spin. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a whole mess of off-shore tax dodges. Donald doesn’t just go to Bermuda and the Carribbean to work on his tan.

    The date on your article is March 2008. Here’s what happened since then. Rezko was prosecuted by the toughest US Attorney in the land, a Republican, and convicted. Nothing surfaced at trial or since that pertains to Obama. You think you’re going to find something Fitzgerald armed with subpoena power and the power of the Feds behind him couldn’t. Don’t make me laugh.

  56. avatar
    Majority Will May 4, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Ragout: If you keep spouting off without knowing the facts, you’re just going to keep embarrassing yourself.

    We’re going to need a whole new generation of irony meters if you keep that up.

  57. avatar
    Ragout May 4, 2011 at 12:30 pm #

    The Magic M:
    >

    I repeat myself, every SSN database says its data are unreliable as they are compiled from many different sources with different and often intransparent quality.

    Repeat your irrelevant claim all you want, it’s still irrelevant. The Social Security Administration’s Social Security Number Verification Service is not “compiled from many different sources.” It’s compiled by the very same people who hand out social security numbers! To repeat myself, when you look up Obama’s draft registration SSN in this official government database, you can’t find it! It “fails to verify.”

    So criticize Lexis-Nexus and other private SSN databases all you want, it’s irrelevant to anything I said. Orly also used the gold standard official SSA database, and Obama’s alleged SSN failed to verify.

  58. avatar
    Sef May 4, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    Ragout: To repeat myself, when you look up Obama’s draft registration SSN in this official government database, you can’t find it! It “fails to verify.”

    That’s because they gave him a new one due to all the illegal public disclosure.

  59. avatar
    Ragout May 4, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    Scientist: So there are at least 10208 other people who have used such trusts.In fact “Northern Trust” has “Trust” in their name because they actually specialize in such transactions.Trusts are a dime a dozen among the very wealthy … [more irrelevant blather omitted]

    That’s nice, but it has nothing to do with your repeated claim that “the SSN on [Obama’s] draft registration is the one he files taxes under … It’s the one that appears on the property records for his house in Chicago.” As I’ve shown, Northern Trust No. 10209 owns Obama’s house in Chicago, not Obama himself. Why can’t you just admit that you’re wrong?

  60. avatar
    Scientist May 4, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    Ragout: Orly also used the gold standard official SSA database, and Obama’s alleged SSN failed to verify.

    Because they gave him a new one after Orly spouted his all over the web from her first search. Or maybe because of all the loons searching it, the SSA simply blocked the database from responding to such requests.

    Look, it’s simple, if you believe the President or anyone else is using a fraudulent SSN, call the Social Security fraud hotline and report it. Have you done that? If not, then do it. If you have, then you’ve done your duty as a citizen and can leave it in their very capable hands.

  61. avatar
    Scientist May 4, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    Ragout: As I’ve shown, Northern Trust No. 10209 owns Obama’s house in Chicago, not Obama himself.

    Obama took deductions for both mortgage interest and real estate taxes.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/POTUS_taxes.pdf

    The SSN under which those were paid has to match the one under which the return is filed.

    Have you called the IRS? Why not?

  62. avatar
    Ragout May 4, 2011 at 12:58 pm #

    Sef: That’s because they gave him a new one due to all the illegal public disclosure.

    Certainly possible! But you sound very confident. No doubt you have evidence?

    I think it’s unlikely that Obama requested a new SSN, because (1) the new SSN will leak soon enough, (2) someone as well known as Obama is hardly a likely target for identify theft, and (3) it must be a big hassle to change SSNs. For one thing, all of Scientist’s points about the consequences of discrepancies in SSNs between different government databases and forms apply just as well if Obama legally changed his SSN.

  63. avatar
    Ragout May 4, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    Scientist: Obama took deductions for both mortgage interest and real estate taxes.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/POTUS_taxes.pdf

    The SSN under which those were paid has to match the one under which the return is filed.

    You’ve provided no evidence of any law or regulation requiring the SSNs to match, and in fact it simply isn’t true that they have to match. I’ve provided evidence that Obama’s house is owned by Obama’s sole-beneficiary trust, and you’ve provided evidence that Obama deducts mortgage interest payments on his tax returns. Two obvious possibilities are: (1) Obama is cheating on his taxes or (2) you’re mistaken about the tax treatment of sole-beneficiary trusts. I don’t suppose you’re a tax-law expert?

  64. avatar
    Scientist May 4, 2011 at 1:24 pm #

    Ragout: you’re mistaken about the tax treatment of sole-beneficiary trusts. I don’t suppose you’re a tax-law expert?

    I’m not an expert, but I’m familiar with some of the aspects of trusts. It depends on how the trust is set up, but a Grantor Trust is a disregarded legal entity for tax purposes. All tax liabilities and benefits go on the grantor’s personal return

    http://www.ultratrust.com/asset-protection-trust.html

  65. avatar
    gorefan May 4, 2011 at 1:39 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: Interesting point. Eisenhower’s SSN, which he applied for when he had retired to Pennsylvania, actually is from … California. Does Orly think Ike was a fraud?

    This guy thinks he is a fraud and so is George Bush Sr.

    http://www.whale.to/b/faked.html

  66. avatar
    train111 May 4, 2011 at 1:54 pm #

    gorefan

    LOL on that link. Get a load of his links on Obama where he claims that both the president and the first lady are ‘reptillian shape shifting aliens’ that can maintain their human appearence by drinking human blood.
    OK I did read that. Needed a good laugh. Never thought I’d see someone who made Orly look reasonably sane though!!

    train11

  67. avatar
    Majority Will May 4, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    Ragout: Two obvious possibilities are: (1) Obama is cheating on his taxes or (2) you’re mistaken about the tax treatment of sole-beneficiary trusts. I don’t suppose you’re a tax-law expert?

    3) You have no idea what you’re talking about and you are grasping at non-existent straws.

    Are you a tax law expert? Have you contacted the IRS?

  68. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 4, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    Suranis: These are based off the Nemisis star hypothesis. Which I actually love by the way (I’d love for the solar system to be a binary), but is useless to the end of the world types as if true, Nemisis is heading away from us at present and wont be back for over 10 million years.

    Now there is some mathematical evidence of a Jovian class planet somewhere beyond the orbit of Uranus, but again that object would be moving slightly away from us in its orbit, rather than swooping into the solar system like an avenging angel.

    I’ve never understood why people look forward to the end of the world. Day to day living provides enough challenge all by itself. its much more satisfying to try and make the world better in the time we have left. But I guess that’s a lot more scary.

    Planet X is also an old favorite conspiracy cult of mine (I haven’t even thought about them in years) – these cultists have a treasure trove of absolutely stunning images of camera lens flares which they present as visual evidence of Nemesis/Planet X (violating the laws of physics in the same way that a fish breathes water or a birther defiles the Constitution…).
    I’d never seen the info that a dwarf companion or trans-Uranic planet was headed towards aphelion, though – can you give me a link? (Sorry about the off-topic request, Doc).

    I think we’ll be seeing more of this sort of thing (wider conspiracy theories from birthers) as the demographics of birtherstan shift from people who are narrowly focused on anything they think opposes President Obama to those who just tend to believe in conspiracy theories in general.

    Where are we going?

    PLANET 10!

    When?

    REAL SOON!

  69. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 4, 2011 at 3:47 pm #

    Scientist: So there are at least 10208 other people who have used such trusts. In fact “Northern Trust” has “Trust” in their name because they actually specialize in such transactions. Trusts are a dime a dozen among the very wealthy, which Obama is (as is anyone who runs for President)

    Actually, you don’t have to be very wealthy. I live in California, and it is very common here for people with even modest assets (like owning a home) to put their property in trust to avoid probate.

    But property or monetary accounts tied to the trust are still connected to the trust beneficiary’s personal social security number. It doesn’t change anything for tax ID purposes.

  70. avatar
    Suranis May 4, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    Slartibartfast: I’d never seen the info that a dwarf companion or trans-Uranic planet was headed towards aphelion, though – can you give me a link? (Sorry about the off-topic request, Doc).

    Well for Nemesis, wiki is a good page for it

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_%28hypothetical_star%29

    As for the 9th planet I actually read a paper once that had a theory about a Jovian 9th planet but I’ve lost the link. You can have a look at the wiki page for the lowell serch that fount Pluto however as it does touch on the subject. (I actually agree Pluto is not a true planet)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_planet

    But the whole point is that if something large was heading into the solar system in a timefrane that could affect us in the near future, the planets would be going batshit from its gravitational effects. And people just are not seeing those kinds of disruptions.

  71. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 4, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    Suranis,

    Thanks for the links.

    Suranis: But the whole point is that if something large was heading into the solar system in a timefrane that could affect us in the near future, the planets would be going batshit from its gravitational effects. And people just are not seeing those kinds of disruptions.

    Which makes the videos that Jimmy posted deeply ironic – they try to argue that something which can only be detected by the sophisticated analysis of ever smaller perturbations of more and more distant planets is going to have an impact on the Earth of unprecedented proportions. You really have to have layered on the tinfoil to believe this sort of thing… Personally, I’m much more comfortable with conspiracy nuts that don’t understand the laws of physics than I am with those that don’t understand the Constitution…

  72. avatar
    G May 4, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    Keith: Looks like a hypothetical of the the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets melting. Such an event is predicted to cause a 90 METER sea level rise.It isn’t kooky at all. Just an extremely worst case scenario.

    I’ve seen the image before (always only on extreme conspiracy websites)…although they always attribute it to the “US Navy” or some similar source… yet I can never seem to find that image on any non-conspiracy site…

    Further, these conspiracy sites use that same image for claims beyond any reasonable timeframe of global warming effects.

    This image and some similar ones made the rounds again recently after the Japan earthquake, as claims for some sudden USA based earthquake that would happen “soon” and change our map to look like this.

    That is obviously total nonsense. No earthquake event is going to result in that extreme of a change.

    Similarly, whenever these kooky conspiracy sites use images like this one to describe a scenario related to polar melting or other warming scenarios, they always portray it as some scary ZOMG!!! the world will look like this within a year!!! the sky is falling and we are all doomed!!! Some variations give it a few years.

    Regardless, that still becomes kooky because their TIMESCALES for such events are way too small. No realistic scientific model can make the US look like this in only a handful of years. The Day After Tomorrow was a fun entertaining disaster flick, but such rapid catastrophic change in nature only exists in movie land.

    Real catastrophic warming worst case scenarios would still require a number of decades to approach anything close to what this map tries to show.

  73. avatar
    G May 4, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Suranis: But the whole point is that if something large was heading into the solar system in a timeframe that could affect us in the near future, the planets would be going batshit from its gravitational effects. And people just are not seeing those kinds of disruptions.

    Bingo.

    And if something of that size ever did, the scope of the solar system covers such vast distances (compared to what the human mind can really relate to) that we would have plenty of years of seeing such gravitational effects on other solar bodies in advance. It would not be able to be kept “secret” without even amateur backyard astronomers being able to pick up that something was going on…

  74. avatar
    Northland10 May 4, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    Ragout: As I’ve shown, Northern Trust No. 10209 owns Obama’s house in Chicago, not Obama himself.

    You obviously do not know how trusts work. I remember, years ago at a bank, sending stocks certificates deposited by the trust owner, to the Depository Trust Company which would re-register the stock to the name to our bank even though the stocks were still owned by the trust owner. Were all of our trust customer hiding something? (maybe so since I also remember reading the procedures with our manager and finding the section for power of attorney, “the applicant must sing and be certified by an trust officer”).

    It should be pointed out also that most President’s, this one included, I think, place their assets in a “Blind Trust” to reduce any chance of unethical decision making. Seeing the amount of dividends from the Northern Trust Company on the President’s tax form, I hazard a guess that NTC may hold the blind trust.

    That I explained financial matters and trusts to a birther shows how extremely limited or biased their thinking really are. I am far, far, from a financial professional.

  75. avatar
    Ragout May 4, 2011 at 10:59 pm #

    Expelliarmus: property or monetary accounts tied to the trust are still connected to the trust beneficiary’s personal social security number.It doesn’t change anything for tax ID purposes.

    Not so. Although it is probably most common for grantor trusts to use the SSN of the grantor, it is perfectly possible for the trust to obtain a separate EIN (Employer Identification Number).

    See this IRS publication, page 11.

    Note that this particular trust must be a grantor trust, since Obama is deducting his mortgage interest on his personal taxes. As far as I can tell, a grantor trust doesn’t seem to be the type of trust one would set up to shield assets for inheritance purposes, nor is it a “blind” trust. So why did Obama go to all this trouble, and considerable expense (paying more than $10,000 a year would be typical for a trust covering $1+ million in assets) in order to conceal ownership of his house? Could it be because there’s something questionable about his SSNs that he doesn’t want revealed?

  76. avatar
    G May 4, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    Ragout: Could it be because there’s something questionable about his SSNs that he doesn’t want revealed?

    I highly doubt it. Extremely improbable.

  77. avatar
    Suranis May 5, 2011 at 1:45 am #

    Ragout: Certainly possible!But you sound very confident.No doubt you have evidence?

    I think it’s unlikely that Obama requested a new SSN, because (1) the new SSN will leak soon enough,

    I’m sure Orly is working on it. I mean for feck sake has any other president had to put up with this bullshit? If he was a real dictator you would be currently enjoying the delights of the biggest hole he could find.

    (2) someone as well known as Obama is hardly a likely target for identify theft,

    Its already happened. How do you think Hollister got his draft papers? He rang up the Department, pretended he was Barack Obama and got the presidents address changed to his own and ordered his documents.

    and (3) it must be a big hassle to change SSNs.

    It must be nice to be a right wing nut and be believed without never having to do a tap of research. All it takes is to make a case that someone has stolen your SSN (Hi Orly) and visiting a social security field office.

    Ragout: Could it be because there’s something questionable about his SSNs that he doesn’t want revealed?

    Are you saying that 10000 other people have questionable SSNs? It could be for any number of reasons, like keeping the information on his property out of the hands of lunatic birthers that will never be satisfied.

  78. avatar
    gorefan May 5, 2011 at 1:50 am #

    Ragout: As far as I can tell, a grantor trust doesn’t seem to be the type of trust one would set up to shield assets for inheritance purposes

    Not true, a grantor trust can be a revocable living trust. It may be that the trust was set up to avoid Illinios probate laws.

    “Grantor Trust
    Definition: A type of trust in which the person who has created the trust is treated for income and/or estate tax purposes as owning the trust property. A Revocable Living Trust is always a grantor trust while the Trustmaker is living, but not all Irrevocable Trusts are grantor trusts.”

  79. avatar
    gorefan May 5, 2011 at 2:02 am #

    Ragout: So why did Obama go to all this trouble, and considerable expense (paying more than $10,000 a year would be typical for a trust covering $1+ million in assets) in order to conceal ownership of his house?

    That is an incredibly inflated cost there is a one time fee to set the trust up and there would be other fees everytime the trust is changed but that only happens occsionally. My guess is he got the trust set up for $2000.

  80. avatar
    nbc May 5, 2011 at 2:06 am #

    Could it be because there’s something questionable about his SSNs that he doesn’t want revealed?

    You mean the SSN he uses when filing taxes?

    Rotfl… And the IRS checks those numbers. Nice try though

  81. avatar
    Scientist May 5, 2011 at 6:28 am #

    Ragout: Could it be because there’s something questionable about his SSNs that he doesn’t want revealed?

    You mean using Kabbalistic numerology if you read the 9 digits backwards together with the sum, they spell “I am the walrus” in Hebrew?

  82. avatar
    Majority Will May 5, 2011 at 7:41 am #

    Scientist: You mean using Kabbalistic numerology if you read the 9 digits backwards together with the sum, they spell “I am the walrus” in Hebrew?

    ืืื™ ืกื•ืก ื”ื™ื

    I don’t think that’s it. ๐Ÿ˜€

  83. avatar
    nemocapn May 5, 2011 at 9:37 am #

    Ragout: Orly looked up Obama’s social security number (the very same number he used on his draft registration) using the Social Security Number Verification Service (the system employers use to check that their employees are citizens or legal residents) and found that his SSN failed to verify! What more evidence that Obama is an illegal alien could you ask for!

    The following is from the handbook for the SSNVS which Col. Hollister used and passed on to Orly Taitz:

    http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnvshandbk/failedSSN.htm

    *A mismatch is not a basis, in and of itself, for you to take any adverse action against an employee, such as laying off, suspending, firing or discriminating.

    *Company policy should be applied consistently to all workers.

    *Any employer that uses the failure of the information to match SSA records to take inappropriate adverse action against a worker may violate State or Federal law.

    *The information you receive from SSNVS does not make any statement regarding a worker’s immigration status.

    There you have it. According to the SSA, it’s not proof that anyone is an illegal alien. It’s not good enough evidence for someone to lose their job. Apparently you do need more evidence.

  84. avatar
    nemocapn May 5, 2011 at 10:03 am #

    Let’s step into the alternate birther universe. In this universe, Stanley Ann forged Obama’s birth certificate and instead of keeping it secret, confessed the crime to her son. Oh, nos! He can’t use the fake birth certificate to get a social security number even though it was already used to put Obama on his mother’s passport. He has Grandma Dunham steal from the probate office the social security number of a guy who is going to die in a year after Obama files his selective service registration. Once Obama establishes this SSN under his name, he continues to use it, and it alone, until 2003 when he’s running for U.S. Senate. This is the year he decides to step up his SSN fraud by using a Michigan issued SSN. At this point, only two SSNs are associated with Obama. He begins his run for the presidency of the United States in January 2007, and six months later he appears in database records with multiple social security numbers and multiple addresses both real and fake. He was using his presidential candidacy as a cover for social security fraud.

    Get real! Every single one of the anomalous SSNs appeared after Obama launched his campaign for the presidency, with the exception of one Michigan SSN. Logically, the explanation for these SSNs has something to do with the campaign.