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Surprise!

One of my favorite belly laugh movie scenes is where the amateur Kung Fu guys jump out of the janitor’s closet in the movie UHF, shouting something that sounds not totally unlike the title to this story.

In this case it’s the otherwise obscure town of Surprise, Arizona (near Phoenix) where the local Tea Party group hosted WorldNetDaily birther in chief, Dr. Jerome R. Corsi.  Yes, Virginia, there are birthers in the Tea Party.

I don’t have a lot to go on, since the source of this story is WorldNetDaily, who is unreliable enough in the best of circumstances, but super-biased when covering one of its own, but apparently the Tea Partiers (242 of them at least) signed a petition that they presented to controversial Maricopa County Sheriff, Joe Arpaio, asking him to open a criminal investigation. As usual, WND is shy about repeating what Arpaio actually said and resorts to paraphrases devoid of context to make the reader believe Arpaio bought into their complaint.

What is their complaint about Obama’s long-form birth certificate? Three major things were listed: the “Smiley face” in Onaka’s signature, the “TXE” smudge in the registrar’s stamp and the fact that the PDF has layers — and that’s about it.

The actual words from the Sheriff’s office are more non-committal than WND would portray it in the rest of their article:

Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office Lt. Justin Griffin confirmed to WND that Arpaio is “waiting to receive all the documentation and all the investigative material from Dr. Jerry Corsi, and then he will look into the matter and compare it to the Arizona revised statutes.”

Maybe they have anti-smudge laws in Arizona. Who knows?

Read more:


Update:

In a statement to radio station KTAR, Sheriff Arpaio contradicted the spin of the WorldNetDaily story:

“What I have agreed to do, contrary to some published media reports, is simply look at the evidence these people have assembled and examine whether it is within my jurisdiction to investigate the document’s authenticity,” Arpaio said in a written statement Friday.

This is exactly the kind of thing I meant when I wrote about WorldNetDaily being unreliable.

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58 Responses to Surprise!

  1. avatar
    J.Potter August 19, 2011 at 2:46 pm #

    So, Doc, you think Corsi showed up announced in AZ? Steered his own Tea Party unit against him? I don’t know enough about Arpaio to decide. I can’t certainly see him being cornered and having to tapdance, like many other Republicans have been. Takes guts to defy the groupthink. Apparently either Joe weaseled, or he’s being PC/openminded …. or he’s a birther. Do Tea Partiers realize they have their own version of political correctness?

    I commented on this in another thread, before the story posted. Funny stuff. Gawker suggested building a fence around Maricopa County to keep this outbreak contained.

  2. avatar
    Rennie August 19, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    Sheriff Joe’s up for re-election next year and he’s not so popular as he once was, so he might be pandering.

  3. avatar
    Thrifty August 19, 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    Presumably as sheriff, he’d have authority to open a criminal investigation against people in his Arizona county. But that’s where it ends? He wouldn’t be allowed to open an investigation for a county on the other side of Arizona, or against the President. Right?

  4. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 19, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    As a former resident of Arizona and Maricopa County let me offer the following:

    Arpaio is up for reelection (as one poster noted) but he is also under investigation by the feds for corruption. The investigation has been going on for half of forever.

    Even if all the birthers dreams came true I can’t imagine what crime he could conjure up under Arizona law. Like any Arizona peace officer he is free to arrest for crimes committed anywhere in the state of Arizona.

    I am not the least bit surprised that he’s jumped into this parade. It’s just the sort of thing he loves.

  5. avatar
    Dave August 19, 2011 at 4:30 pm #

    This story presents Corsi as taking a lead role in the drafting of the petition and presenting it to Arapaio, and includes two photos of Corsi with Arapaio and “Tea Party leaders”. So it strikes me as odd that the story also identifies Corsi as a “WND senior reporter.” Are reporters supposed to put themselves right smack in the middle of the story? There was a time when WND at least went through the motions of trying to look like a real news organization.

  6. avatar
    Daniel August 19, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    242 signatures….. in birferstan doesn’t that come out to about ….. 12 people signing?

  7. avatar
    Daniel August 19, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    Sheriff Arpaio is well versed in the use of crazy antics and sound bites to appeal to those most closely related to their cousins.

    I wouldn’t put this past him in the least.

  8. avatar
    J.Potter August 19, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    Well, when there is no news, make some news …. seems clear no matter how Arpaio stands, that is exactly what is happening here. Corsi stirring the pot, attempting to manufacture reality, literally making his own desired reality to report on report on.

    Dave:
    This story presents Corsi as taking a lead role in the drafting of the petition and presenting it to Arapaio, and includes two photos of Corsi with Arapaio and “Tea Party leaders”. So it strikes me as odd that the story also identifies Corsi as a “WND senior reporter.” Are reporters supposed to put themselves right smack in the middle of the story? There was a time when WND at least went through the motions of trying to look like a real news organization.

  9. avatar
    Dave August 19, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    Here’s a story where Arapaio “clarifies” his position on this.

    KTAR

    The WND story has quotes from this clarification, which I believe it didn’t originally, though I’m working from memory. In any case, the WND article gives no acknowledgement that it’s been updated.

  10. avatar
    Northland10 August 19, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    His respose and the claification do have the feel of “thank you for sharing.”

  11. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett August 19, 2011 at 6:46 pm #

    242? Did someone play “headhunter” while they marched to the sheriff’s office? 😉

  12. avatar
    Rickey August 19, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    Orly gave a speech to birthers at the Holiday Inn in Surprise last year.

  13. avatar
    Obsolete August 19, 2011 at 9:39 pm #

    Well, J. Edward Tremiett, it is Wax Trax! Friday on Twitter…
    🙂

  14. avatar
    John August 19, 2011 at 11:08 pm #

    The key quote:

    Arpaio said, while he will look at the evidence, “I indicated in this meeting that I will also consider whether there is a more appropriate Arzona agency to determine the document’s veracity and ultimately whether the President’s name can lawfully be entered onto the 2012 election ballot.”

    He will come back with an email to them saying, “Nope, not my area, but I did send your material to the AZ Sec of State. Have a good day……………….”

  15. avatar
    Keith August 20, 2011 at 2:30 am #

    As others have said, Sheriff Joe is up for re-election and under serious investigation by the Feds for fraud, so he is being extremely cautious at the moment. Our local forger, Mr. Smith, should be very glad he was busted in Tucson and not Phoenix because Joe would have had him sleeping in a tent and wearing pink.

    He has made his reputation, such as it is, by executing over-zealous, publicity generating dragnets for illegal aliens; so I suppose the birthers think this would be right up his alley. Unfortunately for them, while Joe seems to be an arrogant, hateful, deeply bigoted man, he has never struck me as particularly stupid.

  16. avatar
    Keith August 20, 2011 at 2:43 am #

    Keith:
    As others have said,…

    I forgot to add, once upon a time, Surprise was a nice sleepy wide spot in the road, basically an agricultural service center. Since aobut the mid 60’s it has been ‘taken over’ by Sun City, an age restricted trailer park development with about 75,000 residents (not everything in Sun City is a trailer parks anymore). Surprise claims a current population of over just over 100,000 now.

    IN the 70’s Sun City got a reputation as extremely introverted population. Sun City was virtually guaranteed to vote ‘No’ at any bond election, and since the population completely swamped the non-Sun City population, services and infrastructure went down the tubes. Schools were badly neglected for many years (Sun City residents don’t need no stinkin’ schools why should anybody else have schools?), and since all of Arizona’s schools are badly neglected now, I assume the school districts there are still between a rock and a hard place..

  17. avatar
    Lupin August 20, 2011 at 4:56 am #

    I didn’t see UHF but your description reminded me of the recurring scenes where Inspector Clouseau is stalked by Kato (and vice-versa) in his apartment.

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 20, 2011 at 8:17 am #

    It is not unusual for WND paid writers to be featured as newsmakers in their stories and their WND connection not mentioned. At least they identified Corsi. WND is a right-wing advocacy organization operating under the guise of a news outlet.

    Dave: Are reporters supposed to put themselves right smack in the middle of the story?

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 20, 2011 at 8:20 am #

    I recommend you watch the brief clip from the movie from the hyperlink in the story.

    Lupin: I didn’t see UHF but your description reminded me of the recurring scenes where Inspector Clouseau is stalked by Kato (and vice-versa) in his apartment.

  20. avatar
    Bob August 20, 2011 at 9:41 am #

    Wasn’t this an episode on The Andy Griffith Show?

    Otis the Drunk gives Deputy Barney Fife an erroneous tip about a mysterious stranger in Mayberry . . . hilarity ensues.

  21. avatar
    Tarrant August 20, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    Arpaio seems to be trying to play both sides here, telling a reporter yesterday that he “wasn’t sure” if Obama was a citizen and he’d have to look at “the evidence” to be sure one way or the other. Unsurprisingly, this has the birthers all atwitter today.

  22. avatar
    G August 20, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    I saw UHF and have it on tape & DVD. Great laughs. That’s the Weird Al Yankovich movie. The funniest character that sticks with me from that was Stanley Spidowski, the simple yet passionate janitor and his mop. Played by Michael Richards (Kramer from Seinfeld).

    Lupin: I didn’t see UHF but your description reminded me of the recurring scenes where Inspector Clouseau is stalked by Kato (and vice-versa) in his apartment.

  23. avatar
    G August 20, 2011 at 10:44 am #

    The amateur Kung Fu guy was also a fairly popular character acter from the time. His most famous role was as “Long Duck Dong” in Sixteen Candles.

    Dr. Conspiracy: I recommend you watch the brief clip from the movie from the hyperlink in the story.

  24. avatar
    GeorgetownJD August 20, 2011 at 10:46 am #

    J.Potter:
    So, Doc, you think Corsi showed up announced in AZ? Steered his own Tea Party unit against him? I don’t know enough about Arpaio to decide. I can’t certainly see him being cornered and having to tapdance, like many other Republicans have been. Takes guts to defy the groupthink. Apparently either Joe weaseled, or he’s being PC/openminded …. or he’s a birther. Do Tea Partiers realize they have their own version of political correctness?

    I commented on this in another thread, before the story posted. Funny stuff. Gawker suggested building a fence around Maricopa County to keep this outbreak contained.

    Joe weaseled. He has been presented with birther demands and “evidence” numerous times over the past two-and-a-half years, and shown no sign that he is interested in their cause.

    What you have to understand is that Surprise/Sun City/Sun City West is the part of Maricopa County where Joe’s support is the strongest. Much of this (City of Surprise excepted) is unincorporated so there are no municipal police forces — the sheriff is the only LEO, and folks in Sun City are white and conservative and paranoid that brown people are encroaching on their community and are going to rob them and rape them, so they like Joe’s shoot-first-ask-questions-later style. His campaign dollars come primarily from those communities.

    So it is no surprise that Joe had a hard time speaking frankly and openly with the tea partiers who showed up at his office with cameras and petitions. Joe loves publicity and cannot resist a photo opportunity, so he let his constituents air their grievances and then made circumspect promises that would keep them happy and sending in those dollars.

    Joe knows he has no jurisdiction to investigate a matter within the purview of the state’s SOS, even if he did believe the birther shit.

  25. avatar
    GeorgetownJD August 20, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    Keith: … all of Arizona’s schools are badly neglected now, …

    Hey, watch your potty mouth, buddy!

    All kidding aside, your comment speaks the truth about the refusal of the Sun City crowd to financially the support the school districts in the the northwestern suburbs. In the 1960s or 70s it got to the point where no bond issue could pass and hence the Peoria Unified School District split off so its boundaries would not include the stingy old folks.

    I take issue with your generalization. Arizona has many fine schools, Most, of course, are found in the wealthy communities like Scottsdale and Ahwatukee and the Catalina foothills of Tucson, where property values are high and thus a solid tax base exists. The demographics account for the higher quality, as parents in those districts have the time and resources to dedicate to their children’s education; they aren’t working three jobs for a subsistence living. But there are some wonderful schools that are working, simply because the faculty and administration pour their hearts (and sometimes their own funds) into the classroom.

    I’m proud to be a product of Arizona schools.

  26. avatar
    Steve August 20, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It is not unusual for WND paid writers to be featured as newsmakers in their stories and their WND connection not mentioned. At least they identified Corsi. WND is a right-wing advocacy organization operating under the guise of a news outlet.

    I don’t know about unsual, but it’s definitely unethical.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 20, 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    One example that comes to mind is Roy Moore, the Alabama Supreme Court judge who erected the Ten Commandments monument in the state judicial building. Moore is interviewed here:

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=199001
    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=281005

    while having written 110 articles for WND, as listed in this archive:

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=43&authorId=140&tId=8

    Steve: I don’t know about unusual, but it’s definitely unethical

  28. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 20, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    Keith: forgot to add, once upon a time, Surprise was a nice sleepy wide spot in the road, basically an agricultural service center. Since aobut the mid 60′s it has been taken over’ by Sun City, an age restricted trailer park development with about 75,000 residents (not everything in Sun City is a trailer parks anymore). Surprise claims a current population of over just over 100,000 now.

    Couple things for other readers: Surprise is an incorporated city and has been since 1960. Most of Sun City is not incorporated. It is a deed restricted community built by Del Webb. I don’t recall him ever building any trailer parks.

    Parts of the newest development – Sun City Grand – are in Surprise.

    The sheriff has always been active in unincorproated Sun City. The Sun City posse is one of his largest and it’s quite active providing extra patrols. Itis also a very active politial presence in the county.

  29. avatar
    G August 20, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    Roy Moore became an official columnist for WND back in 2006.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Roy_Moore

    Punditry

    On July 26, 2006, WorldNetDaily, the operation of journalist Joseph Farah, announced that Moore would be joining the publication as a columnist.[25] In his debut column, Moore argued that God is the “sovereign source of our law”, echoing his language and reasoning used in the failed Constitution Restoration Act.[26]

    Moreover, in a column dated December 13, 2006, Moore claimed that Keith Ellison of Minnesota, the first Muslim to have been elected to the United States House of Representatives in the 2006 election should be barred from sitting in Congress because in his view, a Muslim could not honestly take the oath of office. Moore claimed that the Qur’an did not allow for religions other than Islam to exist, and added that “common sense alone dictates that in the midst of a war with Islamic terrorists we should not place someone in a position of great power who shares their doctrine”.[27] Not only do these statements conflict with the Constitution’s prohibition on religious tests for public office, but they have led to critics stating that Moore advocates a “Christians only theocracy.”[28]

    In April of this year, he announced an exploratory committee to run for President as a GOP candidate. I really haven’t heard any updates on his campaign since that time. Apparently, he’s still in that “exploratory” phase after all these months and more than happy to take any sucker’s donations that can come his way:

    http://roymoore2012.com/

    Dr. Conspiracy: One example that comes to mind is Roy Moore, the Alabama Supreme Court judge who erected the Ten Commandments monument in the state judicial building. Moore is interviewed here:http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=199001http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=281005while having written 110 articles for WND, as listed in this archive:http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=43&authorId=140&tId=8

  30. avatar
    Horus August 20, 2011 at 7:47 pm #

    Rennie: Sheriff Joe’s up for re-election next year and he’s not so popular as he once was, so he might be pandering.

    After the morons of my state elected Jan Brewer as Governor, I would not discount anything.

  31. avatar
    Horus August 20, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    Thrifty: He wouldn’t be allowed to open an investigation for a county on the other side of Arizona, or against the President. Right?

    Right

  32. avatar
    Rickey August 20, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    quote cite=”comment-130995″>

    CarlOrcas: Couple things for other readers: Surprise is a

    CarlOrcas: Couple things for other readers: Surprise is an incorporated city and has been since 1960. Most of Sun City is not incorporated. It is a deed restricted community built by Del Webb. I don’t recall him ever building any trailer parks.

    Back in the late seventies I delivered the Wall Street Journal to subscribers in Sun City for a couple of years. The first sections of Sun City were pretty modest – small houses with carports – but no trailer parks. There were trailer parks on Grand Avenue in Peoria.

    As Sun City grew, the houses became more upscale as wealthier snowbirds from the midwest moved in. Many of them lived in Illinois or Michigan or Minnesota in the summer and in Sun City in the winter.

  33. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 20, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    Horus: Thrifty: He wouldn’t be allowed to open an investigation for a county on the other side of Arizona, or against the President. Right?
    Right

    Actually he can investigate any state crime anywhere in the state of Arizona. It’s considered polite to let the local folks know what you are doing in their territory and it has caused problems a number of times for many agencies but like any arizona peace officer he can do just that.

    And, yes, he could theoretically investigate the President for violation of Arizona law.

  34. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 20, 2011 at 8:34 pm #

    Rickey: Back in the late seventies I delivered the Wall Street Journal to subscribers in Sun City for a couple of years. The first sections of Sun City were pretty modest – small houses with carports – but no trailer parks.

    The original homes were built starting in 1960 and included duplex, quad and apartment units in addition to single family homes. And, you’re right, they were quite modest and very small.

    They were considered upscale compared to the retirement homes in nearby Youngtown.

    The newer places, especially those in Sun City Grand, are pretty…..well…grand.

  35. avatar
    joebanana August 20, 2011 at 8:59 pm #

    Well guess what? It is within his jurisdiction. The Sheriff can effect arrest on anybody breaking the law, and fraud is a criminal offense. And, the USDOJ is required to investigate criminal complaints, just like the FBI is required to investigate fraud. But it’s the president that’s to see that the law is faithfully executed.

  36. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 20, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    joebanana: Well guess what? It is within his jurisdiction. The Sheriff can effect arrest on anybody breaking the law, and fraud is a criminal offense. And, the USDOJ is required to investigate criminal complaints, just like the FBI is required to investigate fraud. But it’s the president that’s to see that the law is faithfully executed.

    Couple things:

    First, exactly what Arizona law has President Obama broken….personally? Please provide a citation.

    Second, the authorities – state and federal – are not “required” to investigate complaints. They have wide latitude to investigate and prosecute matters that come before them. Otherwise they would be consumed by nonsense……like this stuff.

  37. avatar
    Keith August 20, 2011 at 10:50 pm #

    GeorgetownJD: I’m proud to be a product of Arizona schools.

    As am I.

    I would rank my school experience in Tucson as world class, easily equal to or better than anywhere in the world at the time; and that was in the ‘poorer’, less privileged, working class neighborhood schools of Tucson’s south west side, not in the Catalina Foothills (I went to Pueblo, not Oro Valley).

    That was in the 1960’s, and Arizona’s schools were rated among the nations finest. Arizona’ s schools are now rated among the nations poorest and least successful. As they are funded primarily through property taxes, the Sun City led property tax revolt has made it very difficult for School Districts to raise funds, and the Libertarian led anti-education campaign has made it frustrating and almost soul destroying for Education leaders to be heard.

    I have spoken with many educators and teachers in Tucson over the last few years, and they all despair about the lowering standards and quality in Arizona schools, whether in the Catalina foothills or in the southwest barrios.

    (lecture)
    Educating it children is the single most important function society performs, just as the founding fathers, like Thomas Jefferson for example.

    Over the last few decades, there has been a nationwide movement to destroy public education in the USA, and its success is painfully evident in the ease that fraudsters like Farrah and Beck and others of their ilk can manipulate their audience of folks who have not been taught how to think for themselves.
    (/lecture)

  38. avatar
    Keith August 20, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    Rickey: CarlOrcas: Couple things for other readers: Surprise is a

    CarlOrcas: Couple things for other readers: Surprise is an incorporated city and has been since 1960. Most of Sun City is not incorporated. It is a deed restricted community built by Del Webb. I don’t recall him ever building any trailer parks.

    Back in the late seventies I delivered the Wall Street Journal to subscribers in Sun City for a couple of years. The first sections of Sun City were pretty modest – small houses with carports – but no trailer parks. There were trailer parks on Grand Avenue in Peoria.

    As Sun City grew, the houses became more upscale as wealthier snowbirds from the midwest moved in. Many of them lived in Illinois or Michigan or Minnesota in the summer and in Sun City in the winter.

    I agree. This is my experience.

    I only lived in Phoenix for 3 years, about age 7 to 10 and I admit to a child’s memory of the facts. Grand Avenue was lined with trailer parks. Miles and miles and miles of them. The entire area, although correctly called Glendale and Peoria, was referred to as Sun City by the locals, not necessarily because it was all really Sun City, but because it reflected the idea of an isolated, manufactured, and above all, artificial community.

    In my defense, I said in my post that Sun City was not all trailer parks anymore.

  39. avatar
    Keith August 20, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    CarlOrcas: First, exactly what Arizona law has President Obama broken….personally? Please provide a citation.

    “Presidenting While Black”

    Sorry, I can’t put my hands on my copy of ARS to provide the citation. Perhaps you could ask State Representative Carl Seel (the author of Arizona State House Bill 2177), to provide you with the citation. I expect you can find his contact information via Google somehow.

  40. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 20, 2011 at 11:39 pm #

    Keith: Sorry, I can’t put my hands on my copy of ARS to provide the citation. Perhaps you could ask State Representative Carl Seel (the author of Arizona State House Bill 2177), to provide you with the citation. I expect you can find his contact information via Google somehow.

    The Arizona Revised Statutes are available on line. Here is Title 13:

    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13

    So….now…..what crime has President Obama committed?

    House Bill 2177 didn’t have anything to do with fraud. It was the birther sponsored bill to require Presidential candidates to prove they are “natural born citizens”. Governor Brewer vetoed the bills several days after it was passed.

  41. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 21, 2011 at 12:04 am #

    Keith: only lived in Phoenix for 3 years, about age 7 to 10 and I admit to a child’s memory of the facts. Grand Avenue was lined with trailer parks. Miles and miles and miles of them. The entire area, although correctly called Glendale and Peoria, was referred to as Sun City by the locals, not necessarily because it was all really Sun City, but because it reflected the idea of an isolated, manufactured, and above all, artificial community.

    I first moved to Phoenix in 1958 and lived there for most of the following 52 years.

    I don’t know when you lived there but there were never “miles and miles and miles” of trailer parks along Grand Avenue. First, one side of the street is and always has been home to the Santa Fe railroad and, as a result, lots of industrial properties. Farms, mostly cotton, filled the large areas between the cities. Only in recent years have residential areas filed in along Grand Avenue. If you look at it on Google or Bing you will still see vast sections of open land.

    Glendale and Peoria have been towns since the late 1800’s and are quite a few miles from Sun City along Grand Avenue. They have never been referred to as Sun City.

    And, finally, Sun City was neither manufactured or isolated. All the homes were site built and until not that many years ago US 60 (Grand Avenue) was still the main highway to Los Angeles.

    I think we can leave it here to avoid sending this thread even further off subject.

  42. avatar
    Keith August 21, 2011 at 12:52 am #

    Well I moved there in 1957 and lived there for the next 3.5 years (then moved to Tucson).

    I was 7 years old and I remember it, gosh darn it. 🙂

    Maybe it wasn’t Grand that I remember. We lived in the 35th and Campbell area, I went to Alhambra Elementary in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th grade.

    I defer to your more extensive history with the area.

  43. avatar
    Keith August 21, 2011 at 12:54 am #

    CarlOrcas: The Arizona Revised Statutes are available on line. Here is Title 13:

    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13

    So….now…..what crime has President Obama committed?

    House Bill 2177 didn’t have anything to do with fraud. It was the birther sponsored bill to require Presidential candidates to prove they are “natural born citizens”. Governor Brewer vetoed the bills several days after it was passed.

    I know. But I bet if anybody knows what Obama is guilty of in Arizona, Seel would.

  44. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 21, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    Keith: I know. But I bet if anybody knows what Obama is guilty of in Arizona, Seel would.

    Seel has said 2177 wasn’t about Obama. In fact I don’t find any stories in which he claims Obama committed any crime in Arizona.

    You, on the other hand, seem to be quite sure Obama has committed a crime. What is it?

  45. avatar
    Rickey August 21, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    CarlOrcas:
    First, exactly what Arizona law has President Obama broken….personally? Please provide a citation.

    Birthers are fond of claiming that Obama committed fraud when he released his “forged” long form birth certificate.

    However, as I mentioned in another thread, even if the birth certificate turned out to be forged, I don’t see how Obama could be charged with fraud. To my knowledge he has never used it for an official purpose – it hasn’t been used to obtain a passport, hasn’t been used to obtain a driver’s license, and in fact it hasn’t been submitted to any agency of either the Federal government or a state/local government. Obama merely passed out copies to reporters and had a copy posted on the Internet. How does that constitute fraud?

    If merely creating a forged birth certificate constitutes fraud, then Ron Polland/Polarik and Lucas Smith should be packing their bags for the slammer.

  46. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 21, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Rickey: Birthers are fond of claiming that Obama committed fraud when he released his “forged” long form birth certificate

    Among other things.

    You’re right, of course, forging a document is not a crime in and of itself. Using it unlawfully is the problem and in this case (assuming all the birther fantasies came true) the only charge I could see for Obama is conspiracy. As I recall the documents to get candidates on state ballots are signed by their surrogates but, of course, that’s all part of the grand plan!!

    My point to Keith is that he and others throw around charges like rice at a wedding but when pinned down they get real quiet or send you off to talk to another birther.

  47. avatar
    GeorgetownJD August 21, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Among other things.

    You’re right, of course, forging a document is not a crime in and of itself. Using it unlawfully is the problem and in this case (assuming all the birther fantasies came true) the only charge I could see for Obama is conspiracy. As I recall the documents to get candidates on state ballots are signed by their surrogates but, of course, that’s all part of the grand plan!!

    My point to Keith is that he and others throw around charges like rice at a wedding but when pinned down they get real quiet or send you off to talk to another birther.

    I believe that if you will review the thread — and the posting history of commenters on this forum — you will find that Keith does not hold the opinion that any Arizona law has been violated. His original comment was snarky and directed at joebanana, asking joe to provide a citation to A.R.S.

    The birthers eat their own. No need for the Obots to follow suit.

  48. avatar
    Joey August 21, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    President Obama’s signature on the Arizona Candidate Nomination paper required him to attest to being a “natural born United States citizen.”

    In birther world, he knew that he doesn’t qualify as a natural born United States citizen because either he was born in Kenya or Canada or his father was a British subject, or he gave up his US citizenship when he became a citizen of Indonesia or all of the above.

    In birther world, he is obviously guilty of fraud and election fraud.

  49. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 21, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    GeorgetownJD: I believe that if you will review the thread — and the posting history of commenters on this forum — you will find that Keith does not hold the opinion that any Arizona law has been violated. His original comment was snarky and directed at joebanana, asking joe to provide a citation to A.R.S.

    I believe I was the one who asked joebanana for the citation and that’s when Keith jumped in and said he didn’t have his copy of the Arizona Revised Statutes handy and suggested I contact Carl Seel, the Arizona birther bill’s sponsor, to see what crime Obama had committed…..leading me to believe Keith felt Obama had broken some Arizona law.

    I pointed him to Arizona Title 13 on line and asked him what section he thought Obama had violated and, again, he referred me to Seel.again. He never said or indicated that he didn’t think Obama had committed a crime.

  50. avatar
    Keith August 21, 2011 at 11:15 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Seel has said 2177 wasn’t about Obama. In fact I don’t find any stories in which he claims Obama committed any crime in Arizona.

    Every author of a birther bill in all of the states where they were proposed claimed their bill was not about Obama.

    You, on the other hand, seem to be quite sure Obama has committed a crime. What is it?

    You seem to be reading my posts incorrectly or incompletely. I have already suggested that the only crime that he might be accused of in Arizona is “Presidenting While Black”.

  51. avatar
    Keith August 21, 2011 at 11:29 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I believe I was the one who asked joebanana for the citation and that’s when Keith jumped in and said he didn’t have his copy of the Arizona Revised Statutes handy and suggested I contact Carl Seel, the Arizona birther bill’s sponsor, to see what crime Obama had committed…..leading me to believe Keith felt Obama had broken some Arizona law.

    You and GJD are both correct. I was being snarky in my response to your question to jobebanana. The whole post was meant to be satire. I’m sorry to have caused confusion, but there is no satiric emoticon to mark the post with.

    Being aware of your posting history here, I admit to being rather surprised at your apparent defense of Seel.

    CarlOrcas: First, exactly what Arizona law has President Obama broken….personally? Please provide a citation.

    “Presidenting While Black”

    Sorry, I can’t put my hands on my copy of ARS to provide the citation. Perhaps you could ask State Representative Carl Seel (the author of Arizona State House Bill 2177), to provide you with the citation. I expect you can find his contact information via Google somehow.

    And I felt justified “answering” for joebanana because I met the real Joe Bananas (he didn’t like that name, you didn’t use it to his face) in Tucson; and I was, if not friends with, then at least close acquaintances with several other minor relatives of fairly ‘infamous’ characters during high school.

  52. avatar
    Keith August 21, 2011 at 11:30 pm #

    I messed up the block quote on that, sorry. The last paragraph should not be part of the quote.

  53. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 22, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    Keith: Being aware of your posting history here, I admit to being rather surprised at your apparent defense of Seel.

    More confusion. I am not defending Seel. He is a fool.

  54. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 22, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    Keith: You seem to be reading my posts incorrectly or incompletely. I have already suggested that the only crime that he might be accused of in Arizona is “Presidenting While Black”.

    Subtlety is difficult to pull off in this one dimensional venue.

  55. avatar
    The Magic M August 22, 2011 at 7:58 am #

    Rickey: If merely creating a forged birth certificate constitutes fraud, then Ron Polland/Polarik and Lucas Smith should be packing their bags for the slammer.

    In Birtherverse, they would. Don’t forget birthers claim that if the POSFKBC Smith sent to Congress were a forgery, he’d be indicted by now, so it must be legit. *duh*
    Watching birthers talk about the law is even more brain-numbing than watching them talk about Photoshop.

  56. avatar
    AnotherBird August 22, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    At some point an official has to clearly state that this is a dead issue.

  57. avatar
    Daniel August 22, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    AnotherBird:
    At some point an official has to clearly state that this is a dead issue.

    And have the birthers all shout “coverup!!”?

  58. avatar
    Bill DuBerger August 22, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    The last thing Corsi wants is a serious investigation. Farah and WND have no interest in “solving birtherism”. WND can make the most ridiculous birther claims, and they get webhits from people who want to believe, and from people who want to prove them wrong, again. The validity of the information is irrelevant. WND generates traffic.

    If these guys were serious they would have camped out in Congressman Issa’s office a long time ago. They’re secretly hoping Obama is re-elected so they can drag it out for a couple more years.