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Taking its toll

“Alice laughed: “There’s no use trying,” she said; “one can’t believe impossible things.”

“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

— Alice in Wonderland.

Long term abuse of the body can lead to consequences. Smoking can lead to cancer; excessive consumption of alcohol can lead to liver damage; overeating leads to obesity and can contribute to diabetes. The list goes on. It appears that long-term abuse of the mind, in this case the birthers espousing increasingly dubious theories, leads to mental derangement and ultimately to the inability to identify the difference between fact and fiction.

Case in point: Mario Apuzzo. I think he’s finally lost it, as evidenced by the latest article on his web site: Is Barack Hussein Obama II Really Bâri′ M. Shabazz, Born October 28, 1959 in New York City? Apuzzo writes:

What Ms. Trowbridge has presented to the world is surely shocking (an understatement). What she says surely needs to be investigated as soon as possible.

One recalls that Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, as testified by the Hawaii Department of Health, two birth certificates, and announcements from 1961 in the local newspapers and so any suggestion that he was born somewhere else is absurd on its face. The fact that Mr. Shabazz is dead (according to the Social Security Death Index) and the President is not should also give one pause about even repeating such a crazy story. If that’s not enough, President Obama is 4 inches taller than was Mr. Shabazz.

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68 Responses to Taking its toll

  1. avatar
    Scientist November 4, 2011 at 7:34 am #

    Malcolm X was a US citizen. And so was his wife Betty. And New York City is in the US. So then Obama was born in the US wiith 2 US citizen parents and meets every one of Mario’s criteria to be a natural born citizen. Vattel himself could say no different. So Mario can close up shop now…

  2. avatar
    Prairie Blue November 4, 2011 at 7:36 am #

    It’s funny. Early this morning, I was mulling over the whole “Obama is Malcom X’s illegitimate son” idea this morning. Doesn’t that argument take the wind out of the birthers’ sails? Malcome X was born in Omaha, so any arguments about foreign parentage goes out the window.

  3. avatar
    Lupin November 4, 2011 at 8:08 am #

    Meretricious Mario is likely financed by some KKK-type organization. He will continue to spout rubbish until the checks stop coming. (Unlikely.) In effect, the very absurdity of this claim proves that he indeed doing a job.

  4. avatar
    The Magic M November 4, 2011 at 9:56 am #

    Prairie Blue: Doesn’t that argument take the wind out of the birthers’ sails?

    To understand this, you must understand the birfers’ motivation.

    It was never about eligibility. It was never about where he was born, who his parents are or if he uses a “stolen” SSN.
    It was always and only about, first, “him gone” and, second, “everything he did declared void”, aka the Magic Reset Button.
    From day 1, the main motivation of the birthers, possibly even before they became *birth*ers, was to find something to remove Obama with. And their first (and for many, still the prevalent) idea was “there must be something embarrassing”.
    And by that, they originally really meant “embarrassing”, not “a legal obstacle”.
    They were thinking along the lines of “his BC says he’s a Muslim” or “his BC says his father is a radical”.
    Info they hoped would discredit Obama for the common voter, like “I’m not gonna vote for someone who was raised by a Muslim radical”. Thus the Malcolm X angle and the Frank Marshall Davis angle.
    They hope that if that were true, people would no longer vote for him, thus achieving their goal of “getting rid of the black guy”.

    You can bet that if, arguendo, Obama turned out to be Malcolm X’s son, birthers would go “Vattel? Who’s that? Kenya? Who ever mentioned it? All that matters is that the President is the son of a black radical!”.

  5. avatar
    bob November 4, 2011 at 11:51 am #

    Prairie Blue:
    IMalcome X was born in Omaha, so any arguments about foreign parentage goes out the window.

    Read the comments at Apuzzo’s blog. There he very carefully explains that because Obama, Sr. is listed on his birth certificate as the putative father, President Obama still was born with dual citizenship and thus cannot be a natural-born citizen.

    http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7466841558189356289&postID=5849480257190753765

    I do agree Apuzzo is losing it: he is uncritically accepting whatever is written at The Terrible Truth.

  6. avatar
    Lupin November 4, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    bob: I do agree Apuzzo is losing it: he is uncritically accepting whatever is written at The Terrible Truth.

    He is not. He’s a shill doing what he’s paid to do.

    Has anyone dealt with “mob” lawyers? I once had some dealings with the Paretti attorneys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giancarlo_Parretti). This is not about what they believe; this is what they’re paid to do.

  7. avatar
    misha November 4, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    Lupin: Has anyone dealt with “mob” lawyers?

    The Russian mob is now firmly ensconced in Israel. Russian discussion forums have been speculating about Orly Taitz and the Russian mob.

    Connect the dots…

    Meanwhile, Israeli artists are getting fed up, and going to live in Berlin:
    http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/why-are-israelis-moving-to-germany-1.384831

  8. avatar
    gorefan November 4, 2011 at 12:58 pm #

    Lupin: He is not. He’s a shill doing what he’s paid to do.

    You may be right but I think it has to do with his feeling neglected. As we approach the one year anniversary of the death of Kerchner v. Obama by the Supreme Court, Mario is feeling unloved. Orly and Donofrio are hot birther commodities right now. Orly has the various failed FOIA cases and visits with Sheriff Joe, Leo has the Minor precedent (Mario may be upset that Leo is getting credit for this) and Justiagate. What does Mario have? Just Kerchner.

    Think of it like the actress who is not getting new acting roles and decides to do a Playboy spread. This may be Mario’s nude photo layout.

  9. avatar
    Daniel November 4, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    gorefan: Think of it like the actress who is not getting new acting roles and decides to do a Playboy spread. This may be Mario’s nude photo layout.

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

    Now how the Hell am I going to get that picture out of my head?

    Thanks a lot!

  10. avatar
    Scientist November 4, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    bob: Read the comments at Apuzzo’s blog. There he very carefully explains that because Obama, Sr. is listed on his birth certificate as the putative father, President Obama still was born with dual citizenship and thus cannot be a natural-born citizen.

    No! No! No! Hold it a doggone minute! If, as Mario claims, the birth certificate for Barack Obama is a fraud and Barack Obama does not exist and never did exist, and he is really Bari Shabazz, then the person so described never was a British citizen. Even insane fantasies have to follow their internal logic. If you make Superman vulnerable to kryptonite, then he has to fall apart when kryptonite appears. Any child knows that.

  11. avatar
    Majority Will November 4, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    Daniel: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

    Now how the Hell am I going to get that picture out of my head?

    Thanks a lot!

    Well, it’s not like you’d be able to tell that they were nude photos of a man.

  12. avatar
    Daniel November 4, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    Scientist: Even insane fantasies have to follow their internal logic.

    No they don’t lol

  13. avatar
    Daniel November 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    Majority Will: Well, it’s not like you’d be able to tell that they were nude photos of a man.

    Ugly and crazy is still ugly and crazy, lace corset notwithstanding

  14. avatar
    Scientist November 4, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    Daniel: No they don’t lol

    Do too.

  15. avatar
    Daniel November 4, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    Scientist: Do too.

    Pshaw!

    Did you walk here, or did you bring your lunch?

  16. avatar
    Pastor Charmley November 4, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    Malachi and Malik are two different words. In Semitic languages such as Hebrew and Arabic, most words are constructed from tri-literal roots, so the different vowels actually create totally different words. Malak and Melek are not different forms of the same word, Ms. Trowbridge, they are the words for messenger and king respectively.

    Another piece of absurdity in a piece that reminds me of the sort of articles that occasionally get pushed through the Church mailbox by people convinced God is speaking directly to them.

  17. avatar
    Pastor Charmley November 4, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    Names sounding alike means zero. But again, reminds me of some of the craziness that people think I will be interested in because I am an evangelical pastor. I have a 600-page book that someone suggested I read where the author (who seems to be a pathalogical liar convinced that her behaviour is justified by her cause) argues that B.F. Westcott, Bishop of Durham from 1890-1901, was moonlighting as William Wynn Westcott, London coroner and occultist, because they shared the same surname. Silly.

  18. avatar
    misha November 4, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    Pastor Charmley: In Semitic languages such as Hebrew and Arabic, most words are constructed from tri-literal roots, so the different vowels actually create totally different words.

    Pastor Charmley: reminds me of some of the craziness that people think I will be interested in because I am an evangelical pastor

    You are a crank.

  19. avatar
    Pastor Charmley November 4, 2011 at 3:24 pm #

    Insane fantasies have to follow their own internal logic. The desire to get rid of Obama by hook or by crook, however, does not.

  20. avatar
    Egharcsar November 4, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    Hi dr c. With regard to the terribletruth, i,ve pulled this section regarding the death of bms.

    quote

    The SSDI record states that the death information for Bâri′ M. Shabazz was coded “V”.

    V signifies: “Verified: Report verified with a family member or someone acting on behalf of a family member.”

    The report is not coded “P“.

    P signifies: “(Proof): Death Certificate Observed”.

    This distinction is critical. Notice of death was made by an informant who did not present verification of his/her reporting, that is, no death certificate was presented with the notification of death.

    “SSA receives reports of death from a variety of sources, including friends and relatives of deceased individuals, funeral homes, postal authorities, financial institutions, and Federal and State agencies. Friends, relatives, and funeral homes report about 90 percent of deaths. Postal authorities and financial institutions report another 5 percent of deaths.”

    Once in the federal system, the record was flagged as ‘PE’, meaning that an inconsistency exists between what was reported and what was recorded in the government’s files.

    End quote

    Let’s make the joke together that we birthers are now looking for a death certificate!

    Btw, still haven’t settled on the true identity of harrison j bounel and how he can own half a house.

  21. avatar
    Sef November 4, 2011 at 6:26 pm #

    Egharcsar: how he can own half a house.

    Maybe you should also investigate how New York Central could sell “air rights” in Manhattan.

  22. avatar
    misha November 4, 2011 at 6:43 pm #

    Sef: Maybe you should also investigate how New York Central could sell “air rights” in Manhattan.

    It’s been done in DC: http://www.airrightscenter.com/

  23. avatar
    Egharcsar November 4, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    In arligton and bethesda, sure— but in dc nothing taller than the capitol.
    In dc on m street near gwu, developers kept the original facade of an entire block, encased an open air mall behind it and then built offices on top of that to the famed 13th floor-a precusor of cap and trade if you will, in a literal sense.

  24. avatar
    Scientist November 4, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    Egharcsar: Btw, still haven’t settled on the true identity of harrison j bounel

    I know him very well, almost like a brother. What’s it worth to you?

  25. avatar
    Rickey November 4, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    Egharcsar:

    The SSDI record states that the death information for Bâri′ M. Shabazz was coded “V”.

    Wrong. There is no death record of “Bâri′ M. Shabazz.” The Social Security Death Index only shows a record of “B.M. Shabazz.” The first name “Bâri′” appears to be the figment of some birther’s imagination, and of course is designed to fool suckers into thinking that there is some connection to Obama.

    In fact, we can’t even tell from the death records if B.M. Shabazz was a male.

  26. avatar
    jayhg November 4, 2011 at 9:29 pm #

    Rickey: Wrong. There is no death record of “Bâri′ M. Shabazz.” The Social Security Death Index only shows a record of “B.M. Shabazz.” The first name “Bâri′” appears to be the figment of some birther’s imagination, and of course is designed to fool suckers into thinking that there is some connection to Obama.

    In fact, we can’t even tell from the death records if B.M. Shabazz was a male.

    Damn………..birthers keep getting busted!!!

  27. avatar
    Egharcsar November 4, 2011 at 9:31 pm #

    Worth to me? A dinner party, at least—if you can bring him along. ( should i also invite a few available singles.)
    🙂

    Doc, you and mrs doc c are invited, too. I promised you a steak dinner over a year ago.
    Check in tomorrow

  28. avatar
    Egharcsar November 4, 2011 at 9:36 pm #

    Oops rickey take it up with the terrible truth, i,m just adding. I dont trust the interent in the post justia era. Now good night.

  29. avatar
    Rickey November 4, 2011 at 10:32 pm #

    Egharcsar:
    Oopsrickey take it up with the terrible truth, i,m just adding. I dont trust the interent in the post justia era. Now good night.

    It just so happens that I believe in checking out rumors before I repeat them. If you don’t trust the Internet (and you shouldn’t) the solution is to verify, verify, verify.

  30. avatar
    Lupin November 5, 2011 at 3:52 am #

    gorefan: You may be right but I think it has to do with his feeling neglected. As we approach the one year anniversary of the death of Kerchner v. Obama by the Supreme Court, Mario is feeling unloved. Orly and Donofrio are hot birther commodities right now. Orly has the various failed FOIA cases and visits with Sheriff Joe, Leo has the Minor precedent (Mario may be upset that Leo is getting credit for this) and Justiagate. What does Mario have? Just Kerchner.

    Think of it like the actress who is not getting new acting roles and decides to do a Playboy spread. This may be Mario’s nude photo layout.

    That may the case as well (motivations are a complex thing) but as a good ambulance-chaser, my bet is Mario’s looking after #1.

  31. avatar
    Scientist November 5, 2011 at 7:26 am #

    Egharcsar: Worth to me? A dinner party, at least—if you can bring him along. ( should i also invite a few available singles.)

    Mr. Bounel is a very busy man. He works on a cash in advance basis only. Wire $500,000 to the coordinates in the Caymans. which I will provide you and once the bank confirms the transfer, he will call. I hope you have a reliable line, because Harry ain’t gonna call twice.

  32. avatar
    Pastor Charmley November 5, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    misha: misha

    I’m a crank why? The only definition of crank that I can find on Dictionary.com that is semi-relevant is “an unbalanced person who is overzealous in the advocacy of a private cause”. Are you assuming that I am a birther, because I assure you, I am not. I am a victim of cranks, perhaps a magnet for cranks, but what private cause do you think I am advocating? I agree that the Semitic language comment is obscure, but it’s hardly crank-like.

    Or are you defining crank in some other way?

  33. avatar
    Egharcsar November 5, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    @scientist. That kind of money will be difficult to raise in this current cycle, unless of course I can organise a raffle. I’ll check the internet to see if there is a legal precedent for such a thing.

    Too bad doc, no steak for us anythime soon. Unless you’ d like to….

  34. avatar
    Scientist November 5, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    Egharcsar: @scientist. That kind of money will be difficult to raise in this current cycle, unless of course I can organise a raffle. I’ll check the internet to see if there is a legal precedent for such a thing.

    You have been putting your hopes to be rid of “the usurper” in foolish enterprises for so long, why not one more? I don’t understand the psychology of birthers at all. There will be an election soon enough and from that day, you will only have Obama for either a couple of months or 4 years maximum. A mere blink of the eye.

    Most birthers strike me as miserable, unhappy people. I am pretty sure that they were miserable and unhappy before he took office and will be miserable and unhappy aftter he leaves. What useful things do plan to do after 2012 or 2016 to make up for the time you have wasted since 2008?

  35. avatar
    Daniel November 5, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    Scientist: What useful things do plan to do after 2012 or 2016 to make up for the time you have wasted since 2008?

    There’s always another fictitious disaster waiting in the wings to create a conspiracy over.

  36. avatar
    The Magic M November 6, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    There’s always an entire life to waste on “President Obama was a usurper 30 years ago and I won’t rest until it’s all been uncovered”…

  37. avatar
    GeorgetownJD November 6, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    Egharcsar:

    Btw, still haven’t settled on the true identity of harrison j bounel and how he can own half a house.

    Neither the whole house nor half the house is “owned” by anyone by the name of Harrison J. Bounel. The deed to the property shows that it is owned by Northern Trust Company, as trustee under an Illinois Land Trust instrument.

    The name “Harrison J Bounel” was a single stray notation in an Accurint People Search Results that Al Hendershot pulled up earlier this year. The name is “associated” with the Greenwood Avenue address — nothing more. The date that this association was reported to LEXIS/NEXIS (a consolidator of various credit reports and other data) was November 2009 — a date that Obama was already serving in office as the President. Hardly proof that the President used the name as an “alias.”

    In fact, since the name “Harrison J Bounel” is an anagram for any number of other names (e.g., Jason Bourne HR IL) most likely the reported association was a joke.

  38. avatar
    misha November 6, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    GeorgetownJD: the name “Harrison J Bounel” is an anagram for any number of other names

    My name is an anagram for A Many Skirmish.

  39. avatar
    Scientist November 6, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Mr Harcsar (can I call you Glenn?): Pay no attention to “Georgetown JD”. A JD is all well and good, but I have a PhD, a real one in a real science, not a political one like Corsi. And I can assure you that Harrison J Bounel is real and he has information on President Obama. He knows where President Obama was born. He knows who President Obama’s father was. He knows where President Obama went to school. And he is willing to share this information with you for mere money. Mere money. And you are reluctant? Listen, man, the Constitution, God, the future of the Universe is at stake here. Don’t take my word for it-ask Orly Taitz or Mario Apuzzo. This is not the time to be a cheapskate, sir!

    That said, Harry realizes that you may be short of cash in this troubled Bush Depression economy. So, he is willing to accept half his customary fee (a mere $ 250,000) for him to share a part of what he knows. Harry is confident that once you get a taste of what he knows (hint: The President was not born in the continental United States, and Harry can tell you where. He can even show you a picture of Obama’s birth certificate).your friends will be happy to cough up the remainder.

    But you need to move quickly as Harry needs to go overseas on urgent business. Come on Glenn, don’t lose this opportunity.

  40. avatar
    misha November 6, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    Scientist: But you need to move quickly as Harry needs to go overseas on urgent business.

    Don’t forget to wire a bank transfer to Bernard Madoff Securities, in Lagos, Nigeria. PM me for the exact transfer data.

  41. avatar
    Sef November 6, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    Scientist:
    Mr Harcsar (can I call you Glenn?):Pay no attention to “Georgetown JD”.A JD is all well and good, but I have a PhD, a real one in a real science, not a political one like Corsi.And I can assure you that Harrison J Bounel is real and he has information on President Obama.He knows where President Obama was born.He knows who President Obama’s father was.He knows where President Obama went to school.And he is willing to share this information with you for mere money.Mere money.And you are reluctant?Listen, man, the Constitution, God, the future of the Universe is at stake here.Don’t take my word for it-ask Orly Taitz or Mario Apuzzo.This is not the time to be a cheapskate, sir!

    That said, Harry realizes that you may be short of cash in this troubled Bush Depression economy.So, he is willing to accept half his customary fee (a mere $ 250,000) for him to share a part of what he knows.Harry is confident that once you get a taste of what he knows (hint:The President was not born in the continental United States, and Harry can tell you where.He can even show you a picture of Obama’s birth certificate).your friends will be happy to cough up the remainder.

    But you need to move quickly as Harry needs to go overseas on urgent business.Come on Glenn, don’t lose this opportunity.

    Hey, Glenn, I can get it for you wholesale. A mere $100k. What do you say?

  42. avatar
    Scientist November 6, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    Sef: Hey, Glenn, I can get it for you wholesale. A mere $100k. What do you say?

    No way, Jose. Harry works only through me.

  43. avatar
    misha November 6, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    Sef: Hey, Glenn, I can get it for you wholesale. A mere $100k. What do you say?

    Scientist: No way, Jose.Harry works only through me.

    Ha! I have you both beat. I was kidnapped by aliens. One of them said to me, “we know you speak a rare language – Yiddish. We want you to teach us how to buy wholesale. Do that, and we’ll let you leave the spaceship.”

  44. avatar
    Judge Mental November 6, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

    misha: Ha! I have you both beat. I was kidnapped by aliens. One of them said to me, “we know you speak a rare language – Yiddish. We want you to teach us how to buy wholesale. Do that, and we’ll let you leave the spaceship.”

    …….and you then negotiated that down to you teaching them only a dozen words and them throwing in a free limousine ride home, right?

  45. avatar
    Sef November 6, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    Scientist: No way, Jose.Harry works only through me.

    Have you spoken with him lately? I mean REALLY lately.

  46. avatar
    Scientist November 6, 2011 at 6:22 pm #

    Sef: Have you spoken with him lately? I mean REALLY lately.

    Oh, my God! Did Putin get Harry too? I warned him not to drink any tea while he was in Russia.

  47. avatar
    bob November 8, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    Apuzzo doubles down on the crazy:

    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2011/11/is-putative-president-barack-hussein.html

  48. avatar
    misha November 8, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    Scientist: I warned him not to drink any tea while he was in Russia.

    I warned him not to drink any soup while in Russia:

    Ukrainian opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko’s mystery illness was caused by poisoning, his Vienna doctors say. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4088345.stm

    “There were high concentrations of dioxin, most likely orally administered.” Dr Zimpfer said the substance was soluble and could have been administered in something like soup.

  49. avatar
    JoZeppy November 8, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    bob: Apuzzo doubles down on the crazy:http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2011/11/is-putative-president-barack-hussein.html

    Wow….just wow. I guess there isn’t anything Mario wouldn’t glom onto to try to keep himself in the limelight. His junk law was bad enough, but then onto Malcolm X and now this? He just keeps going deeper and deeper into a cesspool.

  50. avatar
    Head Researcher November 8, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    Well, even as a former Common Sense Suspicious Birther, this Bari Shabazz stuff does not excite me too much because DUH!, even if it is true, there is a very simple reason for it.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/the-buzz-on-bari-shabazz-pro-hic-vice/

    The Head Researcher

  51. avatar
    gorefan November 8, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    JoZeppy: He just keeps going deeper and deeper into a cesspool.

    If I read this right, they are saying that sometime after 1982, Shabazz became Obama. So are they throwing out the whole Indonesia story? The Kenya birth? The way they pick up new stuff and drop other stuff is weird.

  52. avatar
    Majority Will November 8, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    JoZeppy: Wow….just wow.I guess there isn’t anything Mario wouldn’t glom onto to try to keep himself in the limelight.His junk law was bad enough, but then onto Malcolm X and now this?He just keeps going deeper and deeper into a cesspool.

    Since being a competent attorney isn’t possible, grifting birthers might keep his lights on for a little while longer. He doesn’t have a Sugar Daddy (that we know of) like Orly.

  53. avatar
    gorefan November 8, 2011 at 1:18 pm #

    Head Researcher: there is a very simple reason for it.

    Wouldn’t President Obama would have been in New York (attending Columbia University) in March, 1982 when the accident happened in Hawaii?

  54. avatar
    Scientist November 8, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    gorefan: Wouldn’t President Obama would have been in New York (attending Columbia University) in March, 1982 when the accident happened in Hawaii?

    Well, of course, the birthers don’t believe he went to Columbia, even though columbia says he graduated with a degree. I suppose there is always spring break in Hawaii.

    My suspicion is that Mario heard “car accident” and decided there might be something in it for him.

  55. avatar
    Head Researcher November 8, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    gorefan: Wouldn’t President Obama would have been in New York(attending Columbia University) in March, 1982 when the accident happened in Hawaii?

    I don’t know. Spring break??? A trip home??? I don’t even think there is enough to begin to tie this to Obama yet, so how would I know??? All I am saying is that if Obama had a fake license at this time, there would be a very simple reason. To go out clubbing and drinking.

    Haven’t you ever done stuff like this??? You can have a 21+ year old friend “lose” their license, and pay a few dollars for a new one, while you get the “lost” one. Plus, sometimes you loan your friends your fake licenses if they need one to go out and they look halfway like you. This stuff is not rocket science. My goodness, why do you think there are sooo many drunk kids in college???

    The Head Researcher

  56. avatar
    Scientist November 8, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    Head Researcher: All I am saying is that if Obama had a fake license at this time, there would be a very simple reason. To go out clubbing and drinking.
    Haven’t you ever done stuff like this??? You can have a 21+ year old friend “lose” their license, and pay a few dollars for a new one, while you get the “lost” one.

    In 1982, the drinking age in both New York and Hawaii was 18. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._history_of_alcohol_minimum_purchase_age_by_state The President was 20 in March 1982.

    You aren’t much of a “Researcher”

  57. avatar
    Head Researcher November 8, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    Scientist: In 1982, the drinking age in both New York and Hawaii was 18. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._history_of_alcohol_minimum_purchase_age_by_state The President was 20 in March 1982.

    You aren’t much of a “Researcher”

    You aren’t much of a reader. Try again, and this time pay attention to the CALIFORNIA part. I already knew that about New York and Hawaii, which is why I looked to see where Obama was after high school. I will accept your apology.

    The Head Researcher

  58. avatar
    Scientist November 8, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    Head Researcher: You aren’t much of a reader. Try again, and this time pay attention to the CALIFORNIA part. I already knew that about New York and Hawaii, which is why I looked to see where Obama was after high school. I will accept your apology.The Head Researcher

    The whole story is ridiculous. Showing a fake driver’s license to drink is a fairly minor deal. Showing one when you have a serious car accident is a serious matter.

    Barack Obama is not Bari Shabazz and has never pretended to be. Everyone who knew him back then (and despite what the birthers claim, there are plenty) knew him as Barack Obama. He’s been in office 3 years. if his enemies must make up nonsense from 30 years ago, then that suggests they can’t find much in his record to attack.

  59. avatar
    Keith November 8, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    gorefan: Wouldn’t President Obama would have been in New York(attending Columbia University) in March, 1982 when the accident happened in Hawaii?

    No, that would have been Student Obama. President Obama wasn’t around until 2008.

  60. avatar
    Daniel November 8, 2011 at 7:08 pm #

    hypothesis built entirely on “shouldawouldacoulda” are not worth considering in any reasonable context.

  61. avatar
    Sally HIll November 9, 2011 at 10:37 pm #

    So you are now claiming Obama has 2 (two) birth certificates?

    I’m jealous – I only have one.

    I guess you guys will go to double lengths to insist he is eligible. 🙂

  62. avatar
    misha November 10, 2011 at 12:39 am #

    Sally HIll:
    So you are now claiming Obama has 2 (two) birth certificates? I guess you guys will go to double lengths to insist he is eligible

    It’s not an idle claim. Obama in fact, does have 2 birth certificates. It’s common knowledge.

  63. avatar
    gorefan November 10, 2011 at 12:49 am #

    Sally HIll: So you are now claiming Obama has 2 (two) birth certificates?

    Well, he has two copies of his BC, a short form and a long form.

  64. avatar
    Keith November 10, 2011 at 1:46 am #

    gorefan: Well, he has two copies of his BC, a short form and a long form.

    Not quite correct. He has (at least) two Birth Certificates in his possession (presumably), one short form, and one long form.

    Both are actual bona-fide Birth Certificates, being OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED documents containing information about his birth event.

    They are NOT copies of a Birth Certificate, they ARE Birth Certificates.

    The document in the bound volume is NOT a Birth Certificate. It is a Record of a Birth Event, and does not, as far as I know contain a certification.

    A Birth Certificate is a Certified copy of that record. The record is not certified (unless it carries the certification) – the copy is certified – that is what makes a Birth Certificate.

  65. avatar
    Northland10 November 10, 2011 at 7:13 am #

    Keith: Not quite correct. He has (at least) two Birth Certificates in his possession (presumably), one short form, and one long form.

    Both are actual bona-fide Birth Certificates, being OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED documents containing information about his birth event.

    They are NOT copies of a Birth Certificate, they ARE Birth Certificates.

    The document in the bound volume is NOT a Birth Certificate. It is a Record of a Birth Event, and does not, as far as I know contain a certification.

    Yes!!! A certificate “certifies.” If somebody asked me to certify that so and so completed a task, I would check the my records. I would then provide some document that says that I “certified” that to the best of my knowledge, he did complete the task. The only think close to a certificate I may have is a copy of what I sent.

    Right now, I have one birth certificate. Should I have need to actually present one again, I would likely order a new one given the one I have is quite old. I would then have two birth certificates. The old one, around 5×8, would be what the birthers call a long form (more info) while the new one, 8 1/2×11 would be a “short form.” Thus, with my 2 certificates, I would have a short long form and a long short form.

    If I ordered another one, then there would be 3.

  66. avatar
    Northland10 November 10, 2011 at 7:14 am #

    Sally HIll: I’m jealous – I only have one.

    Then order another one from your state’s vital records.

  67. avatar
    gorefan November 10, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    Keith: He has (at least) two Birth Certificates in his possession (presumably), one short form, and one long form.

    Actually, he has certifed copies of his birth certificate (Certificate of Live Birth). I believe he has more then two (IIRC, they ordered several COLB’s and two LFBC).

    Hawaii statues refer to them as certified copies.

    “the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate” §338-13 Certified copies.

  68. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) November 10, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    Sally HIll: So you are now claiming Obama has 2 (two) birth certificates? I’m jealous – I only have one. I guess you guys will go to double lengths to insist he is eligible.

    Don’t have to insist it’s just reality. He’s the President he was and is eligible. He will cease to be eligible after he is elected in 2012. You go to great lengths to deny reality. Didn’t you whine and run away saying you weren’t coming back the last 5 times you were here?