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Arizona Obama investigation nears completion

Or not…

According to Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, there are only just a few more weeks work needed for his volunteer posse to complete its investigation of allegations brought by Jerome Corsi and a number of local Tea Party members that Barack Obama’s birth certificate is a fake.

But there’s a snag…

Arpaio pledged at the start that no taxpayer funds would be spent for this posse and the private donations have dried up, as reported by the progressive Phoenix New Times web site as coming from Joseph Farah at WorldNetDaily, a man who always has his hand out asking for money. So if you want to fund Sheriff Joe’s posse, make your contribution at WorldNetDaily, and if you give $10, you’ll get a free copy of the eBook, “Where’s the Real Birth Certificate?” and for $25 a copy of Corsi’s hardback Where’s the Birth Certificate?” and the eBook. In all fairness, WND also provides the address where you can mail a check directly to the Sheriff’s Cold Case Posse.

61 Responses to Arizona Obama investigation nears completion

  1. avatar
    G December 29, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    A fool and his money are soon parted… Grifting works because gullible people are such easy marks and there are a lot of them out there.

  2. avatar
    Reality Check December 29, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    Of course Farah could always just dip into the $15,000 that he lied about paying to the hospital of Obama’s birth. Kapi’olani is still waiting.

  3. avatar
    Reality Check December 29, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    I can’t wait to see if the posse’s report features Paul Irey’s analysis that even he doesn’t stand behind any more.

  4. avatar
    john December 29, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    I think it would be in the best interests for birthers to send funds. Arpiao’s report must be completed and released as planned. Arpiao’s report is an absolutely vital element in further state ballot challenges. It will represent the only official and authortative body to look into the birth claims. This will be able to answer in the affirmative the essential question that NH Ballot Commission had asked Orly. Now we have the answer we want and will run with it.

  5. avatar
    john December 29, 2011 at 4:19 pm #

    There is no proof Obama was born at Kapiolani just a dead doc whose records we can’t find and a manufactured letter where Obama claims he was born there. Farah waits for the actual hospital records and firsthand witnesses of nurses, orderly and others who remember a little black boy being born.

    [Apparently our commenter missed the certified copy of Obama’s birth certificate made available to the Press and on the Internet. Doc]

  6. avatar
    richCares December 29, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    “According to Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio…”
    correction: According to WND’s Joe Farah, “Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said…”

  7. avatar
    G December 29, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Thank you. An important distinction.

    richCares: “According to Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio…”correction: According to WND’s Joe Farah, “Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said…”

  8. avatar
    BatGuano December 29, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    a question for the legal minds here:

    is it legit for a law enforcement agency to solicit donations to fund a specific investigation?

    it seems like it would be a “pay for justice” scenario.

  9. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 29, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Irey recanted? Tell me more.

    Reality Check: I can’t wait to see if the posse’s report features Paul Irey’s analysis that even he doesn’t stand behind any more.

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 29, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    Note the “coming from Joseph Farah” towards the end of the sentence.

    The article was written with my tongue firmly in cheek.

    richCares: correction: According to WND’s Joe Farah, “Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said…”

  11. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 29, 2011 at 6:56 pm #

    I’m not sure exactly how they would do that. I certainly wouldn’t trust WorldNetDaily to get the money to the posse and the contributions directly to the posse might be spent on any cold case. I guess the best approach would be to send to the posse and request the money be spent on the Obama investigation.

    Further, I’m not really sure what they need to spend money on. One of the posse members is supposedly an attorney, so they shouldn’t have legal fees. A trip to Hawaii wouldn’t gain them anything. It is possible that they might hire a real document analyst to look at the long form PDF, but that person is not going to say too much without access to the original certified copy at the White House.

    john: I think it would be in the best interests for birthers to send funds.

  12. avatar
    BatGuano December 29, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Irey recanted? Tell me more.

    http://rcradioshow.blogspot.com/2011/12/conversation-with-paul-irey.html

  13. avatar
    BatGuano December 29, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    Further, I’m not really sure what they need to spend money on.

    my guess is buffalo wings but i’m not ruling out loaded potato skins or chicken crispers.

  14. avatar
    richCares December 29, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    john says “Farah waits for the actual hospital records ”
    My daughter was borh at Kapio’lani in 1965, her records are no longer available, Kapio’lani weeds out records older than 25 years. Farah is pretty good at demanding records he knows won’t exist, it’s birther ploy #17. It’s in the “Pay Pal” usage brochure (bottom of page 4, just below Corsi’s picture), john should know that.

  15. avatar
    Majority Will December 29, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    “. . . and others who remember a little black boy being born.

    Because as any good birther bigot knows, there was only that one.

  16. avatar
    Majority Will December 29, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    BatGuano: my guess is buffalo wings but i’m not ruling out loaded potato skins or chicken crispers.

    If they’re anything like militia member, oaf keeper and birther Darren Huff, I would guess remote-controlled pink dildos and DVDs of “Tranny Hunter”.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  17. avatar
    Reality Check December 29, 2011 at 7:40 pm #

    In addition to my blog post previously linked John Woodman posted an email from Irey where he acknowledged issues with his analysis.

    http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obamabirthbook.com/2011/12/i-challenge-jerome-corsi-mara-zebest-karl-denninger-doug-vogt-paul-irey-and-tom-harrison-to-publicly-debate-the-obama-birth-certificate-forgery-claims/

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Irey recanted? Tell me more.

  18. avatar
    Keith December 29, 2011 at 7:40 pm #

    BatGuano: my guess is buffalo wings but i’m not ruling out loaded potato skins or chicken crispers.

    Colt .45 Malt Liquor is a big favorite in Phoenix.

  19. avatar
    Rickey December 29, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    Further, I’m not really sure what they need to spend money on. One of the posse members is supposedly an attorney, so they shouldn’t have legal fees. A trip to Hawaii wouldn’t gain them anything. It is possible that they might hire a real document analyst to look at the long form PDF, but that person is not going to say too much without access to the original certified copy at the White House.

    I was wondering the same thing. The posse members are volunteers who aren’t being paid. I would assume that they all have computers and surfing the Internet is mostly free. Heck, they could come here and learn everything they need to know for free.

    Maybe we should send Sheriff Joe a note offering to contribute if he gives us a breakdown on what has been spent to date.

  20. avatar
    Rickey December 29, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    john:
    I think it would be in the best interests for birthers to send funds.Arpiao’s report must be completed and released as planned.Arpiao’s report is an absolutely vital element in further state ballot challenges.It will represent the only official and authortative body to look into the birth claims.This will be able to answer in the affirmative the essential question that NH Ballot Commission had asked Orly.Now we have the answer we want and will run with it.

    Sorry, John, but you fail yet again.

    The New Hampshire Ballot Law Commission asked Orly if any “adjudicatory body” had ruled on her claims. Sheriff Joe’s posse is not an adjudicatory body. The posse can gives its opinion, but it has no authority to do anything which comes close to being an adjudication.

  21. avatar
    GeorgetownJD December 29, 2011 at 9:29 pm #

    john:
    I think it would be in the best interests for birthers to send funds.Arpiao’s report must be completed and released as planned.Arpiao’s report is an absolutely vital element in further state ballot challenges.It will represent the only official and authortative body to look into the birth claims.This will be able to answer in the affirmative the essential question that NH Ballot Commission had asked Orly.Now we have the answer we want and will run with it.

    The Cold Case Posse is not an official and authoritative body, thus its report will be neither “official” nor “authoritative.”

    The chairman of the New Hampshire Ballot Law Commission’s exact words were, “Has anybody made a determination on this that appropriately says that President Obama was not born in the United States, is not a citizen of the United States?” Note the words “determination” and “appropriately” as they denote a decision by a judicial or quasi-judicial body.

  22. avatar
    misha December 29, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    I’ll repeat this for fun:

    Sheriff’s posse in the 21st century? Please, I don’t want to hurt myself falling off my chair.

    “Them bank robbers went that-a-way, sheriff. They was riding some mustangs they found in the desert. That’s all I seen.”

  23. avatar
    misha December 29, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    john: It will represent the only official and authortative body to look into the birth claims.

    Hate to break this to you, but Arpaio’s authority stops at the Maricopa county border. Anywhere else in Arizona or the rest of the US, he is a private citizen.

  24. avatar
    JPotter December 29, 2011 at 10:12 pm #

    “there are only just a few more weeks work needed”

    My favorite part!

    Just a few more weeks, folks …. a fee-yewwwwww more weeks …. !

    My 2nd song dedication to Birtherdom, particularly the Corsi/Farah and Haskins strains … Burt Bacharach’s, “Anyday Now” …

    I know I shouldn’t want to keep you
    If you don’t want to stay-ay
    Until you go forever
    I’ll be holding on for dear life
    Holding you this way
    Begging you to stay

    Any day now when the clock strikes “Go”
    You’ll call it off
    And then my tears will flow ….

    Speaking of having a hand out, notice how all birther organizations have a hand out? That really puts the funny in the captions of one of Haskins Paypal buttons:

    “Help defray the initial administrative costs while we look for sponsorships…”

    Who sponsors who in a land of freeloaders? LOL!

  25. avatar
    Keith December 29, 2011 at 11:41 pm #

    misha: Hate to break this to you, but Arpaio’s authority stops at the Maricopa county border. Anywhere else in Arizona or the rest of the US, he is a private citizen.

    Actually, no. He has some authority throughout Arizona. I got into a ‘discussion’ with someone, about this. Possibly on this forum, but maybe another, I can’t quite remember now.

    Arizona law says that a sworn LEO anywhere in Arizona has authority anywhere in Arizona. My erstwhile opponent in the discussion insisted that this meant Sheriff Joe has first line investigative authority anywhere in Arizona – if he wants to investigate a murder in Tucson that has nothing to do with Maricopa county, he can. My view was that that was neither the intent, spirit, nor wording of the law. It is my view that if Joe witnesses a crime in Tucson, and he is the only LEO around, then Arizona law grants him the authority to act appropriately. If he wants to investigate a murder in Tucson he needs to be invited by the Pima County Sheriff or the Tucson Police Department or some other responsible authority.

    Which ever of us is correct, every Arizona sworn LEO has some level of authority everywhere in Arizona. Joe is not just a citizen in Tucson.

  26. avatar
    JPotter December 30, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    Still, I think Misha’a point is a good one. A county sheriff is hardly the appropriate authority to be conducting an investigation of the claims birthers are pushing. Like claiming victory because a dog catcher was convinced to look into a tax fraud case.

    *IF* a report is actually forthcoming, and it is something more original than a copy of WTRBC? on his departmental letterhead, I hope it is at least written from the standpoint of examining Obama’s eligibility as a candidate on ballots in his county or his state.

    You know, something he might conceivably be asked to investigate.

    You know, if the sheriff in that jurisdiction doubles as Election Commissioner.

  27. avatar
    katahdin December 30, 2011 at 1:04 am #

    Keith: if Joe witnesses a crime in Tucson, and he is the only LEO around, then Arizona law grants him the authority to act

    Unless the crime is illegal dishwashing or lawn mowing, Joe’s not interested.

  28. avatar
    Keith December 30, 2011 at 1:10 am #

    katahdin: Unless the crime is illegal dishwashing or lawn mowing, Joe’s not interested.

    Quite true.

  29. avatar
    Lupin December 30, 2011 at 4:11 am #

    I think you’re wrong to try to persuade John of his errors.

    I think John should donate all his worldly goods to the posse. You hear me, John: sell your house, your car, all your belongings and send the money to whomever.

  30. avatar
    The Magic M December 30, 2011 at 5:58 am #

    richCares: Farah is pretty good at demanding records he knows won’t exist

    Especially since it’s already decided that anything anyone could produce is necessarily “forged” by the “almighty conspiracy”.

  31. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 30, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    misha: Hate to break this to you, but Arpaio’s authority stops at the Maricopa county border. Anywhere else in Arizona or the rest of the US, he is a private citizen.

    Arpaio, like all peace officers in Arizona, has authority anywhere in the state at any time.

  32. avatar
    richCares December 30, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    The Sheriff said that the posse is all volunteer so no state money is needed, please donate to keep it that way, go for it john!

  33. avatar
    Atticus Finch December 30, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    CarlOrcas: Arpaio, like all peace officers in Arizona, has authority anywhere in the state at any time.

    The sheriff can arrest someone within his or her county’s jurisdiction, outside the county
    the Sheriff doesn’t have authority to arrest someone. The only peace officers that has authority to arrest statewide are only those peace officers who belong to state agencys such as highway patrol or state troopers

  34. avatar
    Atticus Finch December 30, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    Keith: Actually, no. He has some authority throughout Arizona. I got into a discussion’ with someone, about this. Possibly on this forum, but maybe another, I can’t quite remember now.Arizona law says that a sworn LEO anywhere in Arizona has authority anywhere in Arizona. My erstwhile opponent in the discussion insisted that this meant Sheriff Joe has first line investigative authority anywhere in Arizona – if he wants to investigate a murder in Tucson that has nothing to do with Maricopa county, he can. My view was that that was neither the intent, spirit, nor wording of the law. It is my view that if Joe witnesses a crime in Tucson, and he is the only LEO around, then Arizona law grants him the authority to act appropriately. If he wants to investigate a murder in Tucson he needs to be invited by the Pima County Sheriff or the Tucson Police Department or some other responsible authority.Which ever of us is correct, every Arizona sworn LEO has some level of authority everywhere in Arizona. Joe is not just a citizen in Tucson.

    Arizona Revised Statute 13-3871.
    Authority of peace officers

    The authority of a peace officer may extend in any of the following circumstances to any place within the state:
    1. Where he has the prior consent of the chief of police, marshal, sheriff, or other department or agency head with peace officer jurisdiction, or his duly authorized representative, having the primary responsibility for law enforcement within the jurisdiction or territory.
    2. Under any of the circumstances set forth in section 13-3883.

    13-3883.
    Arrest by officer without warrant
    A. A peace officer, without a warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe:
    1. A felony has been committed and probable cause to believe the person to be arrested has committed the felony.
    2. A misdemeanor has been committed in the officer’s presence and probable cause to believe the person to be arrested has committed the offense.
    3. The person to be arrested has been involved in a traffic accident and violated any criminal section of title 28, and that such violation occurred prior to or immediately following such traffic accident.
    4. A misdemeanor or a petty offense has been committed and probable cause to believe the person to be arrested has committed the offense. A person arrested under this paragraph is eligible for release under section 13-3903.
    5. The person to be arrested has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the United States.
    B. A peace officer may stop and detain a person as is reasonably necessary to investigate an actual or suspected violation of any traffic law committed in the officer’s presence and may serve a copy of the traffic complaint for any alleged civil or criminal traffic violation. A peace officer who serves a copy of the traffic complaint shall do so within a reasonable time of the alleged criminal or civil traffic violation.

  35. avatar
    y_p_w December 30, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    Keith: Actually, no. He has some authority throughout Arizona. I got into a discussion’ with someone, about this. Possibly on this forum, but maybe another, I can’t quite remember now.

    Arizona law says that a sworn LEO anywhere in Arizona has authority anywhere in Arizona. My erstwhile opponent in the discussion insisted that this meant Sheriff Joe has first line investigative authority anywhere in Arizona – if he wants to investigate a murder in Tucson that has nothing to do with Maricopa county, he can. My view was that that was neither the intent, spirit, nor wording of the law. It is my view that if Joe witnesses a crime in Tucson, and he is the only LEO around, then Arizona law grants him the authority to act appropriately. If he wants to investigate a murder in Tucson he needs to be invited by the Pima County Sheriff or the Tucson Police Department or some other responsible authority.

    Which ever of us is correct, every Arizona sworn LEO has some level of authority everywhere in Arizona. Joe is not just a citizen in Tucson.

    I’ve looked up the extensive laws in California in regards to a strange case of a school district police force actively going off campus looking to conduct routine traffic stops and car tows. They’ve been accused by the local sheriff’s dept and police forces of “call jumping” emergency calls that had nothing to do with their primary mission.

    California’s laws are very detailed. A few LE agencies have extensive peace officer authority throughout the state, including the CHP, UC Police, CSU Police, the Attorney General’s office, etc. Local law enforcement only has peace officer authority in their political jurisdiction they cover unless it’s an emergency or they have the permission of the relevant local police (mutual aid or serving a warrant). Several categories say the authority only extends to their primary duties (like that school police dept I mentioned) save an emergency situation, although theoretically that authority extends to the entire state. That essentially means they can conduct arrests related to their district.

    Apparently federal law enforcement doesn’t have California peace officer authority, and can’t make arrests for violations of state or local law unless they have the permission of the relevant local agency. Even federal law enforcement like National Park Service rangers and the US Park Police have to have written permission to arrest or make traffic stops even in their own jurisdiction. I’ve heard all officers are deputized by local sheriffs or technically serve as reserve officers for local police. FBI can make arrests for state laws if they’re on a joint task force or have been requested by the state or a local agency.

    However, it’s highly unusual for a law enforcement agency to conduct investigations about something happening in another jurisdiction unless it’s a joint task force. If that’s required, it’s almost always a state LE agency that handles such investigations.

  36. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 30, 2011 at 12:12 pm #

    Atticus Finch: The only peace officers that has authority to arrest statewide are only those peace officers who belong to state agencys such as highway patrol or state troopers

    Not true in Arizona. See my next next response to your exchange with Keith.

  37. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 30, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    Atticus Finch: 2. Under any of the circumstances set forth in section 13-3883.

    Notice the modification made by 13-3883. It modifies the section that precedes it and provides full authority for peace officers anywhere in the state.

  38. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 30, 2011 at 12:29 pm #

    y_p_w: Local law enforcement only has peace officer authority in their political jurisdiction they cover unless it’s an emergency or they have the permission of the relevant local police (mutual aid or serving a warrant). Several categories say the authority only extends to their primary duties (like that school police dept I mentioned) save an emergency situation, although theoretically that authority extends to the entire stat

    School officers have limited peace officer status in California. All other municipal, county and state officers have full time authority anywhere in the state.

    y_p_w: However, it’s highly unusual for a law enforcement agency to conduct investigations about something happening in another jurisdiction unless it’s a joint task force. If that’s required, it’s almost always a state LE agency that handles such investigations

    Not true in the two states I am most familiar with: Arizona and California. Officers in urbanized areas like Phoenix, LA, etc., are always investigating crimes (like a burglary ring) that cross many jurisdictions. Sometimes they may involved a multi-agency task force but, more often than not, they don’t. And in both states there is no state agency charged with general law enforcement. Arizona’s Department of Public Safety comes close but it remains primarly a traffic agency.

  39. avatar
    richCares December 30, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    Romney’s son a Birther, hilarious
    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/mitt-romneys-son-obama-should-release-birth-certificate-grades.php?ref=fpblg
    .
    he may kill his dad’s chances (remember Donald, the laughing stock)

  40. avatar
    Judge Mental December 30, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    john: I think it would be in the best interests for birthers to send funds. Arpiao’s report must be completed and released as planned. Arpiao’s report is an absolutely vital element in further state ballot challenges. It will represent the only official and authortative body to look into the birth claims. This will be able to answer in the affirmative the essential question that NH Ballot Commission had asked Orly. Now we have the answer we want and will run with it.

    I’d bet everything I own on the certainty that, in the event of Arpaio’s Posse actually issing a “report” which states that the preponderance of evidence suggests the President was born in Hawaii and that everyone (except a diplomat’s child) born in USA is a natural born citizen, John would most certainly NOT “run with it”.

    He would in fact “run from it” with all the shrieking hands in the air horror of an Ayatollah being delivered a lunch tray containing a bacon sandwich and a Budweiser.

  41. avatar
    Thrifty December 30, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    john:
    I think it would be in the best interests for birthers to send funds.Arpiao’s report must be completed and released as planned.Arpiao’s report is an absolutely vital element in further state ballot challenges.It will represent the only official and authortative body to look into the birth claims.This will be able to answer in the affirmative the essential question that NH Ballot Commission had asked Orly.Now we have the answer we want and will run with it.

    Actually, I believe the Hawaii Department of Health is a much more authoritative and official body.

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai’i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

    Now the alternative is that Fukino was lying and the long form was a forgery. But then why didn’t Fukino just issue an authentic birth certificate with false information?

  42. avatar
    Thrifty December 30, 2011 at 1:39 pm #

    I think the birthers are on to something when they insist that people should all have vivid memories of the entirety of Barack Obama’s childhood. Why, just a few months ago, my sister in law gave birth to a daughter, and ever since then there’s been this weird, ethereal, glowing sign floating above her head that says “I WILL BE ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IN 2064.”

  43. avatar
    AnotherBird December 30, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Notice the modification made by 13-3883. It modifies the section that precedes it and provides full authority for peace officers anywhere in the state.

    From what I have read, there seems to be some type of conflation. 13-3883 deals only with arrest without a warrant, for when there is probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed an arrest can be made without prior authorization. Any other activity is dependent on 13-3871 and 13-3872. That means no investigation outside of ones jurisdiction with out authorization and a mutual aid agreement.

  44. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 30, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    AnotherBird: That means no investigation outside of ones jurisdiction with out authorization and a mutual aid agreement.

    Wrong. It means a peace officer can make a probable cause arrest at any time and any place in the state.

    Probable cause is created by something observed or investigated that leads the officer to believe a crime has been committed.

  45. avatar
    Egharcsar December 30, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    Off topic.

    First started reading your blog regarding sc citizenship eligibility in late 2008 . Good scholarship then. How about now.

    The water cooler is abuzz.
    I’ll be reading.

  46. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 30, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    Is there something you think needs research? I don’t do very much investigation nowadays because I believe all the meaningful questions have been answered.

    There is a thing I’ve seen about a US/UK treaty from the time of President Truman that some birthers claim that granted the UK sovereignty over people born in the United States with UK citizenship and made Obama not a citizen. Perhaps I should explain why that is silly sometime.

    Egharcsar: First started reading your blog regarding sc citizenship eligibility in late 2008 . Good scholarship then. How about now.

  47. avatar
    jayhg December 30, 2011 at 11:09 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Wrong. It means a peace officer can make a probable cause arrest at any time and any place in the state.Probable cause is created by something observed or investigated that leads the officer to believe a crime has been committed.

    You just repeated what Another Bird said: that Joe can’t arrest WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE. There is no way that sheriffs or any other police officer can go around all over the place willy nilly playing cop. If a police officer from LA county is in Santa Monica and observes (PROBABLE CAUSE) some law breaking, yes, he can do something, mostly likely intervene AND call local law enforcement. He just can”t go patrolling, which is seems you think Arpaio can do…….go all over Arizona playing cops and robbers. That’s ridiculous.

  48. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 31, 2011 at 12:30 am #

    jayhg: You just repeated what Another Bird said: that Joe can’t arrest WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE

    No peace officer can arrest without probable cause….or a warrant. That’s the law. It is very clear and very simple.

    As far as the rest of your post I’ve never said anything like that. All I’ve said to people who claim Arpaio has no authroity outside Maricopa County is that they are wrong.

  49. avatar
    y_p_w December 31, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    CarlOrcas: School officers have limited peace officer status in California. All other municipal, county and state officers have full time authority anywhere in the state.

    Not true in the two states I am most familiar with: Arizona and California. Officers in urbanized areas like Phoenix, LA, etc., are always investigating crimes(like a burglary ring) that cross many jurisdictions. Sometimes they may involved a multi-agency task force but, more often than not, they don’t. And in both states there is no state agency charged with general law enforcement. Arizona’s Department of Public Safety comes close but it remains primarly a traffic agency.

    I understand making investigations across jurisdictions. However, that’s not necessarily exercising peace officer authority, which would be something like making an arrest, drawing a weapon, or performing a traffic stop. I live across a county line, and I did see city police from a neighboring city serving a warrant in my community. I understand that they will almost always contact the local authority first.

    At least in California, I believe the Attorney General’s office handles some cases. They’re actually authorized to be armed, but I somehow doubt they are.

    Also – I’ve looked at the laws forwards, backwards, and sideways. Local and county law enforcement don’t have statewide peace officer authority in California. They only do if it’s an emergency or if they’ve received permission from the local agency.

    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=830-832.17

    830.1. (a) Any sheriff, undersheriff, or deputy sheriff, employed
    in that capacity, of a county, any chief of police of a city or
    chief, director, or chief executive officer of a consolidated
    municipal public safety agency that performs police functions, any
    police officer, employed in that capacity and appointed by the chief
    of police or chief, director, or chief executive of a public safety
    agency, of a city, any chief of police, or police officer of a
    district, including police officers of the San Diego Unified Port
    District Harbor Police, authorized by statute to maintain a police
    department, any marshal or deputy marshal of a superior court or
    county, any port warden or port police officer of the Harbor
    Department of the City of Los Angeles, or any inspector or
    investigator employed in that capacity in the office of a district
    attorney, is a peace officer. The authority of these peace officers
    extends to any place in the state, as follows:
    (1) As to any public offense committed or which there is probable
    cause to believe has been committed within the political subdivision
    that employs the peace officer or in which the peace officer serves.
    (2) Where the peace officer has the prior consent of the chief of
    police or chief, director, or chief executive officer of a
    consolidated municipal public safety agency, or person authorized by
    him or her to give consent, if the place is within a city, or of the
    sheriff, or person authorized by him or her to give consent, if the
    place is within a county.
    (3) As to any public offense committed or which there is probable
    cause to believe has been committed in the peace officer’s presence,
    and with respect to which there is immediate danger to person or
    property, or of the escape of the perpetrator of the offense.

    ** ** **

    I’m not quite sure what the deal is where I live. I live in a small unincorporated community that is somewhat unique in that it has its own police department. I guess that might be a “consolidated municipal public safety agency” as defined by this law and the chief can give consent. There are also cities in California (like half of the cities in Los Angeles County) that don’t have their own police and contract out to the county sheriff for law enforcement. I’m thinking that means that in practice that means going to the county sheriff for permission even though the law says permission is sought from a chief of police.

  50. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 31, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    y_p_w: I understand making investigations across jurisdictions. However, that’s not necessarily exercising peace officer authority, which would be something like making an arrest, drawing a weapon, or performing a traffic stop.

    Conducting an investigation is police work. Do you really think police need to tell people I’m here to investigate a burlgary that occurred in X City where I’m a police officer but you live in Y City and i have no authority here. Not likely, right?

    y_p_w: At least in California, I believe the Attorney General’s office handles some cases. They’re actually authorized to be armed, but I somehow doubt they are

    The AG’s office has a few investigators who are commissioned peace officers and they definitely carry weapons.

    y_p_w: Also – I’ve looked at the laws forwards, backwards, and sideways. Local and county law enforcement don’t have statewide peace officer authority in California.

    Look at section 830.1(3). It’s the one that does it. This whole section of the Penal Code gets pretty dense and ponderous. New sections are add when they are passed so you often have to get through numerous sections that are no longer effective because of the latest entry.

    As far as contract cities are concerned they’ve been around for a long time and don’t require anything other than a contract between the city and county. No other permission is necessary.

  51. avatar
    AnotherBird December 31, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Wrong. It means a peace officer can make a probable cause arrest at any time and any place in the state.

    Probable cause is created by something observed or investigated that leads the officer to believe a crime has been committed.

    That is an incorrect interpretation of what was written. Please re-read it. The previous two sentences is it entirety are part of the context.

    AnotherBird: From what I have read, there seems to be some type of conflation.

    13-3883 deals only with arrest without a warrant, for when there is probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed an arrest can be made without prior authorization.

    Any other activity is dependent on 13-3871 and 13-3872. That means no investigation outside of ones jurisdiction with out authorization and a mutual aid agreement.

    An investigation can not be done officially outside of justice of peaces jurisdiction without prior authorization.

    On TV there was a person standing at the cash register with a “Halloween” mask on. When the clerk walked away, accidentally leaving the cash register open. The person with the mask on reached over the counter and started removing some cash. Unfortunately, for the bandit a police officer was standing right close by and promptly arrested the bandit. This is what 13-3883 allows. The entire event took about 15 seconds. The police officer wasn’t engaging in an investigation, and the fact that it was in his jurisdiction is irrelevant.

    Which makes sense.

    13-3883 does not override 13-3871 and 13-3872. Which should be obvious.

  52. avatar
    Daniel December 31, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    When the squabbling is over can we get back to the point? That being that there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that Sheriff PT Barnum will “find” anything that will have the least effect on, or even any cause for concern to, the President.

    Whether the man can arrest a drunk driver two counties over is really not relevant, IMHO, to his utter powerlessness where POTUS eligibility is concerned. That birthers think he can do anything to help them is pathetic and entertaining at the same time.

  53. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 31, 2011 at 6:21 pm #

    AnotherBird: Which makes sense.

    What makes sense is to end this silly discussion. I hate appeals to authority but in this case I fear it is the only way out.

    I was a reserve police officer in Arizona and California for 15 years. I taught laws of arrest at the police academy. I was a field training officer.

    The law ihasn’t changed. Your interpretations of title 13 are just wrong.

  54. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 31, 2011 at 6:26 pm #

    Daniel: When the squabbling is over can we get back to the point?

    The quibble is over and I think you’re right on this one.

    I can’t imagine what he could come up with that’s legitimate (a big qualifier in Arpaio Land) that will make a bit of difference.

    That said I have a hard time thinking he will come back with a report that says everything is okay and Obama is legit. He will find some way to muddy the water while announcing “Mission Accomplished”.

    I’ve watched man for nearly 20 years and he never ceases to amaze.

  55. avatar
    G December 31, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    I concur with that assessment. I do suspect that he might continue to push back the release date, as he’s done so far.

    In many ways, I think he’s doing nothing but traditional pandering and trying to use standard stalling tactics to appease part of his “base”, without actually doing anything, and simply hoping that they won’t notice… He’s underestimated the Birthers in that one respect – they won’t let anything go. They love to keep dragging dead horses back out of the closet and beating them over and over and over again.

    Arpiao has simply made a foolish political calculation and has put himself between a rock and a hard place. There’s nothing he can do or deliver that could meet any of the Birther’s fantasy expectations. All he can hope to do is, as you said, hope to “muddy the waters” and say a bunch of nonsense that he hopes will be slick enough to trick them into believing he’s done something…

    CarlOrcas: That said I have a hard time thinking he will come back with a report that says everything is okay and Obama is legit. He will find some way to muddy the water while announcing “Mission Accomplished”.

  56. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 31, 2011 at 7:10 pm #

    G: Arpiao has simply made a foolish political calculation and has put himself between a rock and a hard place

    Arapio has made one political calculation after another for 20 years andusually came out smelling like a rose.

    The last couple years have been one disaster after another for him and his time may be running short. I’ll believe it when I see it.

  57. avatar
    Majority Will December 31, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    CarlOrcas: The quibble is over and I think you’re right on this one.

    I can’t imagine what he could come up with that’s legitimate (a big qualifier in Arpaio Land) that will make a bit of difference.

    That said I have a hard time thinking he will come back with a report that says everything is okay and Obama is legit. He will find some way to muddy the water while announcing “Mission Accomplished”.

    I’ve watched man for nearly 20 years and he never ceases to amaze.

    My guess is the (funded by Farah) report will be a completely idiotic article exclusive to WND with accusations of unsubstantiated malfeasance based on the unavailability of alleged microfiche which held precious birther secrets (and the key to creating magical, life sustaining, bodily fluids).

  58. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 31, 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    Majority Will: My guess is………….

    Nothing…..absolutely nothing…..will surprise me from this guy.

  59. avatar
    y_p_w December 31, 2011 at 10:26 pm #

    CarlOrcas

    As far as contract cities are concerned they’ve been around for a long time and don’t require anything other than a contract between the city and county. No other permission is necessary.

    That’s not what I was referring to. The California Penal Code mentions that in order for local law enforcement to exercise non-emergency peace officer authority in another jurisdiction, they require permission from a chief of police if its a city, or sheriff if it’s a county (seem to imply unincorporated areas). There are incorporated cities (contract cities) where the primary law enforcement is the county sheriff. I was just implying that the law doesn’t directly address contract cities.

    I know local LE can engage in their jurisdiction and pursue a suspect across boundaries.

    I live near Berkeley and attended UC Berkeley. UC Police have a jurisdiction that extends to all University owned buildings and within a mile of campus proper. The Penal Code actually gives UCPD broad peace officer authority throughout the state. Berkeley PD has legal peace officer authority anywhere in the city, including on campus. However, in Berkeley they’ve got clear written agreements that define “operational jurisdictions” where one department is considered primary and where the other department will call in routine stuff but agree they can handle emergencies (like a robbery). They also have a clearly defined joint patrol area where lots of students live and shop.

    I also took some interest (reading the Sacramento Bee website) with the situation in the Sacramento area with a school district police department called the Twin Rivers Police Department. Apparently they’re the only school district police department in California without “school” in its name. They’ve also been contracted for police services for a few local park districts. Locals have accused them of acting like they’re the local cops, making routine traffic stops, call jumping with incidents like residential burglaries, and other assorted stuff. Both the Sacramento Police and Sacramento It came to a head when one rookie officer made a routine traffic stop for expired tags while he was searching for a missing student, where the driver shot him. The shooter was caught by Sac PD, but died in the patrol car probably from being placed in a certain position too long. I know it sucks for the officer who was shot, but a lot of people thought it was odd that a school police officer would be making a routine traffic stop. They’ve also gotten tons of complaints about towing cars off campus for expired registration, where they also seemed to have higher towing fees than both local LE agencies. They were embarrassed by a memo (made public) sent to officers directing them to make a certain number of traffic stops and car tows per day, which was rescinded but replaced with another message recommending they make traffic stops and car tows. Eventually their chief was placed on leave and might get fired.

  60. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 31, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    y_p_w: The California Penal Code mentions that in order for local law enforcement to exercise non-emergency peace officer authority in another jurisdiction, they require permission from a chief of police if its a city, or sheriff if it’s a county (seem to imply unincorporated areas). There are incorporated cities (contract cities) where the primary law enforcement is the county sheriff. I was just implying that the law doesn’t directly address contract cities.

    The section you are quoting is very old and way out of date. My guess is that it predates the formation of POST and all the changes regarding officer’s authority that came to pass 30 or 40 years ago.

    The provisions you cite simply aren’t operative today. They have been superceded by others that I’ve quoted here several times.

    The problems with the district department have nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

    That said I don’t think beating this dead horse is productive or relevant to the mission of the blog.

  61. avatar
    y_p_w January 1, 2012 at 12:23 am #

    CarlOrcas: The section you are quoting is very old and way out of date. My guess is that it predates the formation of POST and all the changes regarding officer’s authority that came to pass 30 or 40 years ago.

    The provisions you cite simply aren’t operative today. They have been superceded by others that I’ve quoted here several times.

    The problems with the district department have nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

    I know, but Dr. C gives a lot of leeway to discuss stuff that’s somewhat off topic.

    As for the laws, they’re currently on the books in California. I’m not quoting laws that have been taken off the books. The language seems pretty clear and concise. Where I’m from, local police don’t go into other jurisdictions and make routine stops, and the laws currently on the books would seem to state why they shouldn’t.