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Bad v Ugly

In a surprising turn of events, crusading birther attorney Orly Taitz (whose web site is included under the “Bad” links below) has attacked a fellow birther blogger whose web site, Obama Release Your Records, is listed under our “Ugly” links. She claims that ORYR inaccurately characterizes her loss in Hawaii yesterday, where the judge refused to enforce a subpoena for Obama’s birth records.

Orly plays for sympathy saying:

Every time I go somewhere, I tell my children how much I love them, so if something happens to me, it would be the last thing they would remember.

I won’t mention the ORYR blogger’s name, although Orly has [link to Taitz web site] accused him by name of slander. (You’d think a lawyer would know the difference between libel and slander, but maybe not in Orly’s case.)

It is easy hiding in the shadows [name redacted], it is easy making money on your blog, selling news, much of which is the result of my work and it is easy to criticize and slander others who are on the front line.

Taitz seems to understand libel though, as in this example [link to Taitz web site]:

The deputy attorney general on the case, Jill Nagamine (her husband is a family attorney for Obama’s family, he handled his sister’s divorce from her first husband)  is a personification of corruption. In any state, where there is any rule of law, she would have been in prison together with a truck load of other corrupt officials.

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32 Responses to Bad v Ugly

  1. avatar
    charo January 14, 2012 at 10:12 am #

    FYI:

    Gianni | January 13, 2012 at 10:21 am |

    It seems that someone planted a pretty malicious virus or malware at Orly’s site. My security system picked it up and squashed it, but it is out there. Visit at your own peril.
    Gianni | January 13, 2012 at 10:29 am |

    That bad item at Orly Taitz’s site I reported earlier is an exploit, quite nasty indeed. It is identified as SWF/Blacole.R. Really bad stuff.

  2. avatar
    ASK Esq January 14, 2012 at 11:15 am #

    Doc, I’ll assume your tongue was firmly in your cheek when you said this was surprising. For Orly, fighting with other birthers happens about as often as failing in court.

    The interesting thing about birthers fighting is, whoever is right, they’re both wrong.

  3. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 14, 2012 at 12:55 pm #

    Doc,

    You really should post malware warnings when linking to Orly’s site.

    ASK Esq,

    You’re right–in this case (as is typical) I think it is ORYR who is right but wrong and Orly who is just wrong.

    ASK Esq:
    Doc, I’ll assume your tongue was firmly in your cheek when you said this was surprising. For Orly, fighting with other birthers happens about as often as failing in court.

    The interesting thing about birthers fighting is, whoever is right, they’re both wrong.

  4. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

    What I have done is to identify any hyperlinks to her site explicitly as such. I myself didn’t get any security warnings when I visited earlier. I use Microsoft Security Essentials and FireFox.

    Slartibartfast: You really should post malware warnings when linking to Orly’s site.

  5. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 14, 2012 at 2:10 pm #

    I was just suggesting that your warning wouldn’t necessarily be sufficient for those who weren’t familiar with Orly’s house O’ malware. (and even if it isn’t infected right now, it probably will be sooner or later…)

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What I have done is to identify any hyperlinks to her site explicitly as such. I myself didn’t get any security warnings when I visited earlier. I use Microsoft Security Essentials and FireFox.

  6. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny January 14, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What I have done is to identify any hyperlinks to her site explicitly as such. I myself didn’t get any security warnings when I visited earlier. I use Microsoft Security Essentials and FireFox.

    The reason why some people get warnings and some do not is probably connected to what their browser allows.

    You can stop a lot of dangerous scripts in FireFox by looking carefully at the add-ons you allow. Allowing the Nitro plug in rather than the Adobe Acrobat one will probably stop quite q number already and still allow you to read and print PDFs immediately.

    I would not be surprised if Alexey Alexeyevich Nevedomsky still had the password necessary to edit her site. He seems to have left Kazakhstan for Belarus.

  7. avatar
    Majority Will January 14, 2012 at 2:43 pm #

    This would have sucked as a Clint Eastwood movie.

  8. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny January 14, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

    I accidentally found this analysing site:

    http://website-tools.net/google-keyword/site/www.orlytaitzesq.com

    Good grief, if that is really as they claim, the list of key words that were most successful in getting visitors to her blog, you’d almost think it is NOT a birther site.

    Compare that to:
    http://website-tools.net/google-keyword/site/obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com

    Or, of course:
    http://website-tools.net/google-keyword/site/www.obamaconspiracy.org

    Apart from the California bar ones, Doc’s site is not that much different from ORYR.

    Though it seems Doc should really write an article on Bilderberg to placate some visitors.

    One of the reasons why Orly’s site may be different is that traffic is so low that accidental hits look statistically relevant.

  9. avatar
    Dave January 14, 2012 at 10:52 pm #

    I honestly can’t figure out what Taitz is so upset about. While the post at ORYR jumped the gun a bit, to me it seemed designed to paint Taitz as a victim and not as an idiot.

    Maybe she was already upset about the earlier post of that very critical letter.

  10. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 14, 2012 at 10:58 pm #

    I think that after the letter ORYR was “the enemy” and anything they said would have merited blowback, but we should also remember that while ORYR’s account was fairly accurate (it should be, he got it from the Fogbow…), it was probably greatly at odds with the version of events in Orly’s mind. Also, I doubt that Orly likes being painted as a victim much more than she likes being painted as an idiot–odd, since she also likes to play the victim card…

    Dave:
    I honestly can’t figure out what Taitz is so upset about. While the post at ORYR jumped the gun a bit, to me it seemed designed to paint Taitz as a victim and not as an idiot.

    Maybe she was already upset about the earlier post of that very critical letter.

  11. avatar
    NBC January 15, 2012 at 2:31 am #

    Maybe she was already upset about the earlier post of that very critical letter.

    Orly will bite anyone and anything she believes is a threat to her. Be it a court or a friendly website she will lash out… She is so insecure.

  12. avatar
    Bob January 15, 2012 at 10:37 am #

    She’s paranoid.

    I’d like to say that Orly has gone over the edge, her family will intervene, and she will be admitted to some sort of hospital or rehab center but I’ve thought this many times.

    It’s actually too bad for her own sanity that she has the time and money to pursue her bizarre hobby. How does she have time for all this crap even as sloppy and mismanaged as it is?

    I think she’s decided that any means justify her ends — lying is okay, sending fake subpoenas is okay, calling a “hearing” a “trial” is okay. She’s willing to just say anything.

  13. avatar
    Arthur January 15, 2012 at 10:53 am #

    You’re right, Bob. And in this, Orly is no different from creationists who distort and misrepresent the sciences in order to justify their absurd claims of a young earth, unaffected by evolution.

    Bob: >I think she’s decided that any means justify her ends — lying is okay, sending fake subpoenas is okay, calling a “hearing” a “trial” is okay. She’s willing to just say anything.

  14. avatar
    richCares January 15, 2012 at 11:46 am #

    Amazing Orly letter to Hawaii:
    sent to Deputy Attorney General of HI Jill Nagamine

    Subpoena Fuddy GA January 26
    Miss Nagamine,
    out of abundance of caution I am serving you yet again with a subpoena for your client to appear at trial on January 26 and for pretrial deposition.
    Please, be advised, that I will be seeking sanctions against you, if you do not cease and desist your meritless attacks on me and your continuing defamation of my character in that you are seeking for me to pay your costs in defending forgery and elections fraud by your officials and your requests for judge Nishimura to label me a vexatious plaintiff in the state of HI after bringing only 1 legal action in the state of HI, which is not frivolous, but a legitimate action of seeking inspection of an original document in light of an alleged copy, as well as and my service of subpoena for your client to appear at trial and for pretrial depositions. I will be reporting your actions and actions of your clients to the Oversight committee of the House of Representatives of the U.S. Congress, as well as the Inspector General of the Department of Justice for criminal investigation of violation of civil rights under color of authority, harassment of a civil rights attorney, defamation, obstruction of justice and aiding and abetting forgery and elections fraud.
    Sincerely,


    Dr Orly TaitzESQ

  15. avatar
    Judge Mental January 15, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

    Plot……..Window…….Whoooossshhh!…….Biyeeeeee!

  16. avatar
    Sef January 15, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

    richCares:
    Amazing Orly letter to Hawaii:
    sent to Deputy Attorney General of HI Jill Nagamine

    Subpoena Fuddy GA January 26
    Miss Nagamine,
    out of abundance of caution I am serving you yet again with a subpoena for your client to appear at trial on January 26 and for pretrial deposition.
    Please, be advised, that I will be seeking sanctions against you, if you do not cease and desist your meritless attacks on me and your continuing defamation of my character in that you are seeking for me to pay your costs in defending forgery and elections fraud by your officials and your requests for judge Nishimura to label me a vexatious plaintiff in the state of HI after bringing only 1 legal action in the state of HI, which is not frivolous, but a legitimate action of seeking inspection of an original document in light of an alleged copy, as well as and my service of subpoena for your client to appear at trial and for pretrial depositions. I will be reporting your actions and actions of your clients to the Oversight committee of the House of Representatives of the U.S. Congress, as well as the Inspector General of the Department of Justice for criminal investigation of violation of civil rights under color of authority, harassment of a civil rights attorney, defamation, obstruction of justice and aiding and abetting forgery and elections fraud.
    Sincerely,


    Dr Orly TaitzESQ

    Be afraid, be very afraid!

  17. avatar
    G January 15, 2012 at 2:30 pm #

    Soon to be retitled “Letter of Futher Proof of why Vexatious applies to Orly”

    richCares: Amazing Orly letter to Hawaii:
    sent to Deputy Attorney General of HI Jill Nagamine

  18. avatar
    Arthur January 15, 2012 at 3:02 pm #

    Can someone clarify for me . . .

    First, is Orly using another copy-and-paste subpoena from Georgia in her action against Nagamine?

    Second, who is Orly referring to when she speaks of Namine’s “client”? Does she mean Ms. Fuddy?

  19. avatar
    G January 15, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    Well, there certainly isn’t one that the GA courts actually approved and issued for her…

    Arthur: Can someone clarify for me . . . First, is Orly using another copy-and-paste subpoena from Georgia in her action against Nagamine? Second, who is Orly referring to when she speaks of Namine’s “client”? Does she mean Ms. Fuddy?

  20. avatar
    Dave January 20, 2012 at 9:55 am #

    There is a new development in this story. Dean Haskins at Birther Summit has published OF SUBPOENAS, TRIALS, AND A VEXATIOUS LITIGANT, which is quite critical of Orly Taitz. Extremely critical.

    What’s even more surprising is that the article is largely factually correct, and says a number of things that anti-birthers have been saying for years.

  21. avatar
    Wile January 20, 2012 at 10:31 am #

    Wow.

    Some choice quotes from Mr. Haskins…

    “”I understand what it is to want something so intensely that one is willing to believe statements that suggest there might be a chance that those desires will come to fruition, regardless of the validity of those statements.””

    “”Believe me, I understand the principle of flinging enough poo against the wall in the belief that, eventually, something will stick; and generally, I know that, in the right situation, that can be an effective approach. Unfortunately, in this instance, it has not been; and my gut feeling is that both the Hawaii and Georgia courts have intercepted the proverbial poo before it has hit the wall, and very soon, will be tossing it at a fan.””

    Dave:
    There is a new development in this story. Dean Haskins at Birther Summit has published OF SUBPOENAS, TRIALS, AND A VEXATIOUS LITIGANT, which is quite critical of Orly Taitz. Extremely critical.

    What’s even more surprising is that the article is largely factually correct, and says a number of things that anti-birthers have been saying for years.

  22. avatar
    J. Potter January 20, 2012 at 10:55 am #

    Dave: There is a new development in this story. Dean Haskins at Birther Summit has published OF SUBPOENAS, TRIALS, AND A VEXATIOUS LITIGANT, which is quite critical of Orly Taitz. Extremely critical.

    My subpoena sounds better and better!

    They’d get along well.

    Per Orly law, having been posted on line, this has the full force of law, and i expect prompt compliance.

  23. avatar
    Sef January 20, 2012 at 1:00 pm #

    Wile: Unfortunately, in this instance, it has not been; and my gut feeling is that both the Hawaii and Georgia courts have intercepted the proverbial poo before it has hit the wall, and very soon, will be tossing it at a fan

    We need a poo retroreflector.

  24. avatar
    Obsolete January 20, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

    Dean Haskins: ”Believe me, I understand the principle of flinging enough poo against the wall in the belief that, eventually, something will stick; and generally, I know that, in the right situation, that can be an effective approach. ”

    Dean has just explained the birther’s entire Modus operandi.

  25. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

    You have to hand it to Deano, lord of the dumbit, for writing such an accurate critique of Orly that was, nonetheless, so laden with irony…

    Obsolete:
    Dean Haskins: ”Believe me, I understand the principle of flinging enough poo against the wall in the belief that, eventually, something will stick; and generally, I know that, in the right situation, that can be an effective approach. ”

    Dean has just explained the birther’s entire Modus operandi.

  26. avatar
    G January 20, 2012 at 2:55 pm #

    Yep. That sums it up accurately.

    Obsolete: Dean Haskins: ”Believe me, I understand the principle of flinging enough poo against the wall in the belief that, eventually, something will stick; and generally, I know that, in the right situation, that can be an effective approach. ”

    Dean has just explained the birther’s entire Modus operandi.

  27. avatar
    G January 20, 2012 at 3:49 pm #

    After reading that article from Dean and the commentary, I definitely think this is worthy of Dr. C doing his own full blog post on this topic (and moving the related comments here to that new thread) – as it is more significant than just what Dean said – it shows that some of these folks can still take some small steps back towards reality and rational thinking, once a light finally turns on in their head and the scales begin to fall from their eyes.

    Dean’s problem, along with many of the Birtheristani, is that they simply had a visceral, emotional negative reaction to Obama’s election and weakly dealt with it by desperately glomming onto any negative myth against him they could find to give themselves a personal justification they could use as a cover to explain and give shape to their gut fear/hate.

    By allowing themselves to proceed with an “end justifies the means” mentality (evidenced by his thinking that simply slinging enough poo and hoping something sticks is EVER an effective approach at all…), they lost sight of all rational thought and ability to discern between right and wrong, between fact and myth…

    In the end, all they did is brainwash themselves into being water carriers for this nonsense of Birtherism and wasting countless time and money chasing windmills and going down rabbit holes leading to nowhere. They have not been able to grasp that all they were doing is making themselves look bad and foolish to anyone who hadn’t drank their kool-aid and thus failed to understand the emnity they received whenever they tried to pull their stunts beyond the cover of their self-contained and sheltered communities.

    They have defended the indefensible, because they feared what would happen if they actually admitted errors or acknowledged reality – others would see the holes in their story and the cracks would eventually cause it all to come crashing down on top of them.

    What they failed to grasp is that those holes and cracks were quite obvious to everyone outside their little cult all along, so the only people they were fooling with these stunts is themselves. Resistance to them wasn’t some reverse-propoganda game being played back at them on their playing field… No, only they were playing games and couldn’t grasp that the rest of us were always grounded in reality. Thus why they haven’t been able to comprehend and predict their own obvious failures and why everything we constantly warned them to happen did happen…yet still never sank in to them.

    Maybe Dean will one day be able to grasp that it is okay for him to simply not like and not vote for Obama and he doesn’t need to create myths to back that up. There are many legitimate real world arguments and philosophical differences that anyone can have for why they vote the way they do. That is fine. Myths and slinging poop at walls isn’t ever necessary nor is it ever ethically justified.

    The instant reaction to reading his article is to respond by saying *DUH* and pointing out that what he is just now beginning to grasp and try to convey to others, is simply what we’ve been saying and trying to point out to him and his ilk all along.

    Should someone feel some embarassment for being “snookered” for so long and should they have some regret for how they behaved while they were brainwashed – YES. However, if they truly can learn from that and return towards being able to act like a sane and rational person, then that is a good thing – for everyone… and most importantly for themselves. The road to recovery for Cult followers can be a long one. But they can recover and deserve some support and encouragement on that journey.

    In many ways, this reminds me of the growth we’ve seen in Squeeky. As she too started to think critically, actually investigate things and then push back on the other scam artists out there, the changes went way beyond simply becoming more grounded in reality. There was a noticeable improvement in her writing style, humor, etc. that went along with it. In many ways, freeing herself from mindless acceptance of myth and being beholden to irrational emotion was transformational in enabling her to develop her skills and talents and flourish, far beyond just the limited issues and arguments of Birtherism. Allowing herself to think critically and think for herself has really started to free her to develop her potential and also her social and communication skills as well. She truly seems on her way to becoming a more confident and healthy individual and less trapped in some of the scars of her past.

    Dave: There is a new development in this story. Dean Haskins at Birther Summit has published OF SUBPOENAS, TRIALS, AND A VEXATIOUS LITIGANT, which is quite critical of Orly Taitz. Extremely critical.What’s even more surprising is that the article is largely factually correct, and says a number of things that anti-birthers have been saying for years.

  28. avatar
    G January 20, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

    Some of the things Dean said were really evident of the process that finally opened his eyes (at least partially) to how crazy this whole thing has been. As I said before, my initial reaction is wanting to say *DUH* or point out the obvious IRONY of all of it – but more important is this is a welcome sign that Dean is begining to actually think for himself and learn how to question incredulous claims again. That is a welcome sign in any human being. I thought these particular snippets were significant and important in demonstrating how he was able to simply start “reasoning” for once and finally grasp why everyone else laughs at Orly and sees her failures coming from a mile away.

    It demonstrates how all one has to do is simply apply some critical logic and not just blindly react to whatever they hear and are told:

    Out of intense curiosity, I began looking seriously into these claims (something, I fear, many of us have been remiss at doing).
    Here is what I discovered about those fantastic claims: none of them were actually true —at least, not in a legal sense. First, what has been repeatedly referred to as a “trial,” will not be a trial, but an administrative hearing. Folks, it is being conducted by Georgia’s Office of State Administrative Hearings. That should be the first clue about what will actually take place!

    are you led to believe that the judge “signed” or “ordered” Orly’s subpoenas, or do you understand that the blank form was something Orly merely downloaded? Orly released a list of 22 witnesses that she has supposedly “served,” even though she never actually went to the trouble of doing what one must do to obtain proper service, so, any of those 22 who don’t actually reside in the State of Georgia have not actually been served, and have no legal reason to respond or appear. Any of them may choose to ask the judge to quash a subpoena, but that would be out of respect for the court and the legal process, and not because there is any validity to the subpoena itself. In fact, any such motion to quash would likely include the fact that the subpoena is legally invalid as a reason for it to be quashed.
    ..
    Not only has no judge in this country (or any other) ordered Barack Obama to “stand trial,” Orly has not been granted the discovery she has claimed to have been granted. In fact, administrative hearings don’t even allow for discovery:

    Now, if he can just start to build on this and try to use the same type of basic critical thinking skills to what he is told from anyone, and not just to Orly. Once he can break himself from faith-based slavish following of his “perceived leaders”, he might be able to learn to indentify right from wrong and truth from myth instead of just dutifully swallowing swill and carrying water for the other con artists out there.

    G: it shows that some of these folks can still take some small steps back towards reality and rational thinking, once a light finally turns on in their head and the scales begin to fall from their eyes.

  29. avatar
    G January 20, 2012 at 4:15 pm #

    These particular statements of course, smack of the greatest irony in Dean’s little epiphany speech:

    I am well aware of how some will perceive what I have said so far, but it is my belief that one can go after the right thing in the wrong way—and that it is never right to do wrong to get to what is right. We have been saying for nearly four years now that all we want is the truth; but, to me, we should not use deception and outright lies to obtain that truth—and, incompetence is not an excuse for dishonesty, neither is it conclusive proof that the other side is corrupt. I am not suggesting that corruption doesn’t exist, but incompetence on one side is not what proves corruption on the other.

    However, the fact that Orly stated that about ORYR goes to the very heart of the deception and spin. She tells lies, and, unfortunately, those who refer to her as “Lady Liberty” (for whatever reason), blindly believe what she posts.

    Now the true test is whether Dean is able to build on his epiphany and start approaching others and the rest of the world through the same critical reality-based lense.

    The words of caution he has used here are wise and correct – but they are simply what we’ve been trying to tell him and others this whole time. Dean has made an important first step, but he needs to continue to practice what he just preached and start applying that beyond just Orly herself.

    Heck, many can rightly argue that Dean needs to do reflect deeply now on his own actions and statements during this time period and hold that all up to the same lense of objective critical thinking.

    He is being brave and bold to try to speak truth to his fellow Birthers, as Cult members are always resistant to deprogramming and would rather brand someone as a “heretic” instead of realize that “one of their own” has seen some “light” and is only trying to share it and help enlighten all of them.

    Now Dean needs to continue to be brave and boldly do some self-reflection and reassessment if he wants to prove the lessons he learned in this one instance can hold and truly put himself on a path of enlightenment. He needs to not let his ego or his fears prevent him from understanding his own behaviors and statements in this “movement” under that same harsh light and accept that he’s been guilty of many of the same mistakes and poor behaviors in the past. Only by being finally honest with himself and accepting that truth can he hope to grow and behave better, moving forward. Otherwise, his epiphany might be short lived…

    G: Now, if he can just start to build on this and try to use the same type of basic critical thinking skills to what he is told from anyone, and not just to Orly. Once he can break himself from faith-based slavish following of his “perceived leaders”, he might be able to learn to indentify right from wrong and truth from myth instead of just dutifully swallowing swill and carrying water for the other con artists out there.

  30. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2012 at 4:50 pm #

    Time will tell if Dean has taken the first steps in the journey you suggest, or if he just came to the realization that Orly has been an embarrassment to the birthers from day 1 and the difference in his prose is merely due to his argument having merit this time rather than any significant change in him. My money is on the latter–do you think Deano , lord of the dumbit, can prove me wrong?

    G: Only by being finally honest with himself and accepting that truth can he hope to grow and behave better, moving forward. Otherwise, his epiphany might be short lived…

  31. avatar
    G January 20, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    I agree. Just because I hold out hope that he learns to apply his epiphany beyond just Orly, doesn’t mean that I think that is inevitable.

    He is at a common cross-roads moment in the path of enlightenment. Will his own ego and natural inclinations cause that brief flicker to be snuffed out in the limited air of tunnel-vision…or will he be able to build upon it and broaden his world to new sources of oxygen…

    Slartibartfast: Time will tell if Dean has taken the first steps in the journey you suggest, or if he just came to the realization that Orly has been an embarrassment to the birthers from day 1 and the difference in his prose is merely due to his argument having merit this time rather than any significant change in him. My money is on the latter–do you think Deano , lord of the dumbit, can prove me wrong?

  32. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2012 at 6:25 pm #

    Well, he’s still applying it to Orly–no sign of anything more yet…

    http://www.birthersummit.org/news/75-has-orly-actually-won-won-won.html

    G: I agree. Just because I hold out hope that he learns to apply his epiphany beyond just Orly, doesn’t mean that I think that is inevitable.