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GA Secretary of State: The hearing is on!

Breaking news!

In a letter to Obama attorney Michael Jablonski, the Georgia Secretary of State says he won’t cancel tomorrow’s hearing, and issues a warning to Jablonski about not participating.

imageWell this is certainly turning out be a roller coaster ride! First Obama’s Georgia attorney Michael Jablonski’s asked Georgia Secretary of State Brian P. Kemp to cancel tomorrow’s hearing. Jablonski says the hearing is out of control with Orly Taitz issuing subpoenas willy-nilly across the globe. He asked Secretary Kemp to cancel the hearing, saying it should have never been scheduled in the first place. Jablonski’s letter contained a threat that he wouldn’t participate in the process any more.

Secretary Kemp has replied. He will not cancel the hearing. He wrote:

Anything you and your client place in the record in response to the challenge will be beneficial to my review of the initial decision; however, if you and your client choose to suspend your participation in the OSAH proceedings, please understand that you do so at your own peril.

Mmm. Strong words there.

Obama’s Attorney Jaberwoki Slapped Down By Georgia SOS – 1/25/2012

 

Popcorn futures are up on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.

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96 Responses to GA Secretary of State: The hearing is on!

  1. avatar
    Egh January 25, 2012 at 9:23 pm #

    Like I said, ultra vires.

  2. avatar
    bernadineayers January 25, 2012 at 9:27 pm #

    doc… good luck tomorrow

  3. avatar
    Omar January 25, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

    The letter from Georgia’s Secretary of State is posted at that birther PAC site

    http://www.art2superpac.com/georgiaballot.html

  4. avatar
    yutube January 25, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

    How polite Dr. thanks for the news. Don’t forget to add this quote please:

    “if you and your client choose to suspend your participation in the OSAH proceedings, please understand that you do so at your own peril”

    Thanks.

  5. avatar
    Tomtech January 25, 2012 at 9:35 pm #

    I iz skeered!

    Jablonski pulled another Orlyesque move.

    I hope he knows the right part of U.S. vs. Wong to cite and puts that on the record.

  6. avatar
    yutube January 25, 2012 at 9:37 pm #

    Thanks Dr. Now, back to elevator music…

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 25, 2012 at 9:38 pm #

    Err thanks, I guess.

    bernadineayers:
    doc… good luck tomorrow

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 25, 2012 at 9:41 pm #

    Yes, I thought this was an important quote. I had to put the article up (as breaking news) before I had a chance to actually read the letter. Now it’s properly embedded and commented on.

    yutube:
    How polite Dr. thanks for the news. Don’t forget to add this quote please:

    “if you and your client choose to suspend your participation in the OSAH proceedings, please understand that you do so at your own peril”

    Thanks.

  9. avatar
    JPotter January 25, 2012 at 9:46 pm #

    Anything you and your client place in the record in response to the challenge will be beneficial to my review of the initial decision….

    Anything?

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 25, 2012 at 9:48 pm #

    I said for years that I really wanted Obama to release the long form birth certificate because, and only because, I wanted a copy to hang on my wall as a testament to how wrong the birthers were. I got my wish and a nicely framed full-color long form printout is hanging on the wall in my study. Whether it helped Obama is a question for history, but it’s really cool for me. I also bought the mug and the t-shirt.

    Now I’m saying that I would like to see the real paper Certification of Live Birth appear in court. A great joy would be to have a video of that document being passed around in a court, albeit just an administrative law court. All of the “PhotoShoped” crap all goes away.

  11. avatar
    Obsolete January 25, 2012 at 9:48 pm #

    “Anything you and your client place in the record in response to the challenge will be beneficial to my review of the initial decision;”

    Translation: Please submit the COLB, and the birthers will be sunk.

  12. avatar
    US Citizen January 25, 2012 at 9:58 pm #

    New state motto.
    Georgia.. the anti-constitution state.

    I think the GA SOS might be the one playing with sharp objects here.

  13. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 25, 2012 at 10:01 pm #

    Anything you and your client place in the record will be twisted beyond all recognition by the birthers.

  14. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 25, 2012 at 10:02 pm #

    Part of me wants to say “from your lips to the president’s big ears” and part of me just wants them to tell the birthers “nuts”.

    Tomtech,

    Don’t be scared, we already know how this ends–Obama wins. 😉

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I said for years that I really wanted Obama to release the long form birth certificate because, and only because, I wanted a copy to hang on my wall as a testament to how wrong the birthers were. I got my wish and a nicely framed full-color long form printout is hanging on the wall in my study. Whether it helped Obama is a question for history, but it’s really cool for me. I also bought the mug and the t-shirt.

    Now I’m saying that I would like to see the real paper Certification of Live Birth appear in court. A great joy would be to have a video of that document being passed around in a court, albeit just an administrative law court. All of the “PhotoShoped” crap all goes away.

  15. avatar
    JPotter January 25, 2012 at 10:03 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: All of the “PhotoShoped” crap all goes away.

    I wish it were true. The diehards are so dug in mentally, a time machine couldn’t get them to recant. They have already, long, loud, and often, decried the thought that the public presentation of a certified hard copy would settle the issue. They’ve already stated that any documentary which appears to imply Obama was born in the US must be a forgery. It isn’t allowed in their reality. And they’ll never confess their doubts, not even to themselves. It is to them a matter of faith. The Usurper will go to any length to deceive the masses.

    They’d probably say it was printed with the blood of infants. (Dried and powdered into toner, of course).

    Meanwhile, I continue to enjoy the numerous, misspelled attempts to render “Photoshop” into a past particple. Or even better, into a gerund …. a noun which became a verb being squeezed back into a noun! What tangled linguistic webs conspiracists can conceive. 😛

  16. avatar
    jayhg January 25, 2012 at 10:09 pm #

    This is ridiculous……….President Obama is not coming to Georgia tomorrow. End…of….Story!!! What’s wrong with these people………and by that I mean that ALJ and the SOS.

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 25, 2012 at 10:17 pm #

    I want to emphasize that the only people who have access to all of the documents in this case are the court and the parties. The Court isn’t publishing any documents. Obama’s attorney isn’t publishing any documents. All we have is what the plaintiffs (i.e. the Birthers) choose to release. It’s not a position I like to be in and it cannot provide a complete picture of things.

    I work with what I have.

    Tomorrow, however, if the live video feed pans out, all interested parties can get an independent look at unfiltered information. What I am afraid, though, is that if a lot of folks try to watch the stream, it will run out of bandwidth and become unusable.

  18. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 25, 2012 at 10:22 pm #

    I made the same point over at the Fogbow–all of this information is coming from Orly (and the other lawyers (and their plaintiffs–poor Mr. Farrar, I don’t think he realized that as soon as hired Orly it wasn’t his case any more…). Does anyone think she’d hesitate to hide something that she didn’t think was to her advantage?

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I want to emphasize that the only people who have access to all of the documents in this case are the court and the parties. The Court isn’t publishing any documents. Obama’s attorney isn’t publishing any documents. All we have is what the plaintiffs (i.e. the Birthers) choose to release. It’s not a position I like to be in and it cannot provide a complete picture of things.

    I work with what I have.

    Tomorrow, however, if the live video feed pans out, all interested parties can get an independent look at unfiltered information. What I am afraid, though, is that if a lot of folks try to watch the stream, it will run out of bandwidth and become unusable.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 25, 2012 at 10:27 pm #

    I like being polite. I wish everybody were polite. Straight-up news like this is something I enjoy reporting, more than debunking. Objectivity and fair play is an important part of my character. I have an opinion about who’s right and who’s wrong in this birther / anti-birther argument. Still it’s important for me to realize that this blog is not where the battle is being fought. If anywhere it’s in Atlanta (looking at clock) tomorrow and ultimately it will be won or lost on election day in November.

    yutube: How polite Dr. thanks for the news

  20. avatar
    jayhg January 25, 2012 at 10:28 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I want to emphasize that the only people who have access to all of the documents in this case are the court and the parties. The Court isn’t publishing any documents. Obama’s attorney isn’t publishing any documents. All we have is what the plaintiffs (i.e. the Birthers) choose to release. It’s not a position I like to be in and it cannot provide a complete picture of things.I work with what I have.Tomorrow, however, if the live video feed pans out, all interested parties can get an independent look at unfiltered information. What I am afraid, though, is that if a lot of folks try to watch the stream, it will run out of bandwidth and become unusable.

    The plaintiffs have released Kenyan birth certificates that are clearly made up! Orly has a bunch of stuff she printed off teh internet. Surely you are not saying that there’s a chance that this could be a threat to the President of the United States.

  21. avatar
    JD Reed January 25, 2012 at 10:32 pm #

    I’m no lawyer so I don’t know my own state’s intricate laws regasrding ballot placement, much less Georgia’s. Nevertheless, I do have a question: If the Ga SOS refuses to place Obama’s name on the blalot, can Team Obama file an emergency suit in a Georgia trial court to overturn the SOS’s decision? Then could whoever loses file an expedited appeal to a GA appeals court, or perhaps a federal court? With the loser appealing that decision? And so up the chain of courts? And is there time before the primary for this to be finallly settled, and if not, which side prevails on the placement of the president’s name on the Ga ballot?
    Id the SOS does bar Obama from the ballo on Thursday, that will be big news and stoucht off a wave of celebration among the birthers rivalling those of V-E or V-J day in ’45.

  22. avatar
    gorefan January 25, 2012 at 10:32 pm #

    So assuming Jablonski doesn’t show up, how will this play out? The first two cases have conceded birth in Hawaii. So they argue Minor v. Happersett. Now unless Judge Mahili is a full-on birther, he will eventually reject this as not binding or precedent, just dicta. Next up, Orly with most witnesses not being relevant and the others saying the PDF is not proof of birth in Hawaii.

    So how does Judge Mahili come up with anything other then a recommendation that the SoS get a certified copy of the President’s BC?

  23. avatar
    y_p_w January 25, 2012 at 10:33 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I said for years that I really wanted Obama to release the long form birth certificate because, and only because, I wanted a copy to hang on my wall as a testament to how wrong the birthers were. I got my wish and a nicely framed full-color long form printout is hanging on the wall in my study. Whether it helped Obama is a question for history, but it’s really cool for me. I also bought the mug and the t-shirt.

    Now I’m saying that I would like to see the real paper Certification of Live Birth appear in court. A great joy would be to have a video of that document being passed around in a court, albeit just an administrative law court. All of the “PhotoShoped” crap all goes away.

    Nah. They’ll just claim that it was done with special printing software, easily available security paper (which is true), a forged embosser, and a forged stamp.

    I’m serious that the security paper is easy to get. I called up a local Kelly Paper store, and they don’t have it in stock but can order it for pickup. $31.98 a ream. I’m thinking of getting a ream just for kicks. The paper itself is mainly designed such that a printed document can’t be altered without evidence of such alteration, although you mentioned that it makes it somewhat harder to copy and get the image just right.

  24. avatar
    gorefan January 25, 2012 at 10:34 pm #

    JD Reed: If the Ga SOS refuses to place Obama’s name on the blalot, can Team Obama file an emergency suit in a Georgia trial

    Would they need to? No one else is on the ballot so all the Georgia delegates would be uncommited as they go to the Convention in North Carolina. Who will they vote for?

  25. avatar
    Jerome January 25, 2012 at 10:39 pm #

    “I said for years that I really wanted Obama to release the long form birth certificate because, and only because, I wanted a copy to hang on my wall as a testament to how wrong the birthers were…………,,,,

    Now I’m saying that I would like to see the real paper Certification of Live Birth appear in court. ”

    Keep moving them goalpoasts Dr.

  26. avatar
    Jerome January 25, 2012 at 10:45 pm #

    *goalposts , rather.

  27. avatar
    Suranis January 25, 2012 at 10:55 pm #

    This is looking like internal Georgia mudwrestling politics getting played out rather than anything to do with the president.

  28. avatar
    donna January 25, 2012 at 11:01 pm #

    i’m thinking katherine harris of bush v gore infamy

  29. avatar
    JD Reed January 25, 2012 at 11:16 pm #

    Gorefan, I understand what you’re saying, as a practical matter, if nobody’s on the ballot, the uncommiitted delegates selected could go to the convention and vote for Obama. However, the problem would be left that officials of one state had barred the president from the ballot for not proving he was eligible for the office he already holds. Probably not what you would consider ideal for a candidate seeking re-election.
    So let me pose another scenario: Suppose the SOS succeeds in keeping Obama off the ballot in part because of the tight time frame. Would it still be in the interest of Obama to appeal the decision up the line because the issue of whether he is eligible could recur in the qualification of candidates for the general election ballot? Certainly in Georrgia, for the same “logic” that might lead the SOS to bar Obama from the primary ballot would appply in the general election, would it not? A definitive ruling based on a certified copy of the COLB should do the job, as no genuine evidence has ever been found to cast doubt on its authenticity.

    And as for voting in the primary with no candidates listed — couldn’t Georgia Democrats write in Obama’s name, resulting in his winning the preference primary? Or would be SOS refuse to count write-in ballots for him?

  30. avatar
    Rickey January 25, 2012 at 11:20 pm #

    gorefan: Would they need to?No one else is on the ballot so all the Georgia delegates would be uncommited as they go to the Convention in North Carolina.Who will they vote for?

    That’s the way I see it. No one other than Obama petitioned to be on the ballot, and the deadline has long passed.

    What if Obama is removed from the ballot and then he wins the primary via a write-in campaign?

    Obama will win the Democratic nomination no matter what happens with these ballot challenges. They are a waste of everyone’s time.

  31. avatar
    Dave January 25, 2012 at 11:21 pm #

    I’m really starting to get the feeling that Jablonski is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

  32. avatar
    Jerome January 25, 2012 at 11:24 pm #

    “I’m really starting to get the feeling that Jablonski is not the sharpest tool in the shed.”

    Not many people are… Especially with as many *tools* as competition.

  33. avatar
    gorefan January 25, 2012 at 11:31 pm #

    JD Reed: because the issue of whether he is eligible could recur in the qualification of candidates for the general election ballot?

    But for the general election there would be questions of standing. The every dat=y voter would not have any and only an independent candidate might have it (I’m assuming that the republican candidate won’t even bring it up).

  34. avatar
    Jay January 25, 2012 at 11:32 pm #

    Don’t be too harsh on Jablonski. Perhaps he is doing the best he can with the cards in his hands.

    Have you seen BHO’s original birth certificate and college records?

    If I were Jablonski, I would have insisted on seeing and touching them.

  35. avatar
    y_p_w January 25, 2012 at 11:32 pm #

    Personally I doubt that the Georgia SoS wants to leave Obama off the ballot. He would be accused of being a party hack rather than an impartial arbiter and keeper of records. However, he’s probably not going to let Jablonski show him up.

    Remember that Jan Brewer is about as partisan as you get, but she still vetoed Arizona’s birther bill. She cited her time as Arizona SoS and the seriousness that she took that job along with the knowledge she had about accepting birth certificates.

  36. avatar
    G January 25, 2012 at 11:33 pm #

    ROTFLMAO!!!

    I bow to you sir, that was just masterful ! 😉

    JPotter: Anything you and your client place in the record in response to the challenge will be beneficial to my review of the initial decision….Anything?

  37. avatar
    G January 25, 2012 at 11:52 pm #

    Only if they have a really weak server capacity.

    If you added up all the hard-core birthers out there and all the folks with the embarassing hobby of paying attention to them (i.e. folks like us)… would that register enough to take down any quality live feed??? I find that hard to believe…

    Dr. Conspiracy: What I am afraid, though, is that if a lot of folks try to watch the stream, it will run out of bandwidth and become unusable.

  38. avatar
    G January 25, 2012 at 11:59 pm #

    That’s the impression I’ve been starting to form from this too…

    Suranis: This is looking like internal Georgia mudwrestling politics getting played out rather than anything to do with the president.

  39. avatar
    far left lib job January 26, 2012 at 12:10 am #

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/

    as leo donofrio….not a rebulican, not a democrat, but a libertarian and constitutionalist; furhter blows away any of you obot anti constitutionalist scum bags away.

    Read it and weep. You guys don’t have a foot to stand on. More and more evidence every day coming out saying
    1- born in the nation
    2- of parentS who are citizens of the nation
    1+2 = natural born citizen
    not 1 = natural born citizen
    not 2 = natural born citizen
    Do the math, give it up.

  40. avatar
    izzybella January 26, 2012 at 12:13 am #

    Jay: Don’t be too harsh on Jablonski. Perhaps he is doing the best he can with the cards in his hands. Have you seen BHO’s original birth certificate and college records? If I were Jablonski, I would have insisted on seeing and touching them.

    What do his college records have to do with anything? College is not a requirement for the POTUS.

    I am more confident that Obama was born in the US than I am about any other president in our history. He has the government of the state he was born in attesting to that fact. What other candidate in history has had that?

  41. avatar
    JD Reed January 26, 2012 at 12:14 am #

    No. Jay, I have not seen Obama’soriginal birth records, but the State of Hawaiii has authenticated sufficient evidence to satisfy any reasonable person that the president was born in Honolulu. And tell me what the hell the president’s academic records have to do with the question of eligiblity?

  42. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 12:14 am #

    LOL! Got to give you kudos on that one… that was quite funny and clever!

    Jerome: “I’m really starting to get the feeling that Jablonski is not the sharpest tool in the shed.”

    Not many people are… Especially with as many *tools* as competition.

  43. avatar
    US Citizen January 26, 2012 at 12:16 am #

    Despite write in ballots, state reps would have their phones ringing off the hook until Nov.
    It would get uglier and uglier for the GOP in the media.
    We’re talking about denying people the right to vote and many will call their reps 5 times a day.
    GA’s image will start to look really bad and other departments in the state will take notice.
    People across the US and even other countries may boycott GA products, fruit…whatever.
    Tourism would likely decline unless GA became the new birther Mecca for the US.
    And then there are all the phone calls and dinners behind the scenes where top GA officials start getting IRS audits, lawsuits and threats.
    Lots of ugliness possible.
    I’m sure right now several important and influential people are trying to talk some sense into some other important and influential people and party lines will have nothing to do with it.
    It’ll all be about money.
    So if this DOES have legs, it’s gonna walk itself right off a cliff.
    There just aren’t enough birthers to start a civil war.

  44. avatar
    JPotter January 26, 2012 at 12:16 am #

    G: I bow to you sir, that was just masterful !

    Thanks, G, I aim to please 😀

    It was either that or this, but this is definitely not work, family, or, well, anything friendly. *ahem*

    To keep it real simple, Jablonski could employ the final argument in every heated Southern debate:

    “Weh fine then! Jes eff’all’y’all! Outties!”

  45. avatar
    JD Reed January 26, 2012 at 12:17 am #

    Hey, izzybella, I was posting before I read your pos, which beat mine by one minute. I see our sentiments are the same.

  46. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    Jerome, for someone to move goalposts, they have to take a different position on a particular issue than they’ve stated before.

    You must be new here. Dr. C’s statement above is consistent with the type of statements on these issues that he’s made since the early days of this website. All the proof and history is contained right here on this site. Admittedly, that’s a lot of reading to slog through, but when you make unfounded accusations, like you just did, the burden then falls on you to back them up.

    Jerome: Keep moving them goalpoasts Dr.

  47. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 12:22 am #

    Agreed. Well said.

    izzybella: I am more confident that Obama was born in the US than I am about any other president in our history. He has the government of the state he was born in attesting to that fact. What other candidate in history has had that?

  48. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 12:38 am #

    LOL! I just read the best explanation of what will take place tomorrow in this case.

    This is a comment from Raicha over at Fogbow. Seriously, I do think it is about an accurate an assessment as there is on this whole thing… as funny as it comes across to read:

    no one really knows. Tomorrow there will be a hearing. One side will be there. The other side maybe not, but maybe so.

    Someone will have the burden of proof. It might be the side that isn’t there. Or is there.

    The ALJ will hear from some witnesses. Or not. And the ALJ will accept some documents. Or not.

    Then the ALJ will decide nothing for at least 10 days. One side will write a proposed “Findings of Fact and Law”. The other side might. Or not.

    Then the ALJ will decide something and tell the SOS. And the SOS might reprint the ballots. Or not.

    I hope this makes everything clear.

  49. avatar
    Feinne January 26, 2012 at 12:51 am #

    I mean I guess I can understand why Jablonski doesn’t seem like he’s taking this seriously because it’s shameful that the GA SoS and ALJ are dignifying any of this by holding the hearing at all and I’m sure he assumed they wouldn’t.

    They should probably go talk to any of GA’s congresspeople who were sitting when Obama was certified as eligible to be president, since potentially the SoS and ALJ are getting ready to call them liars and frauds. I’m sure they’d be thrilled at that outcome.

  50. avatar
    JPotter January 26, 2012 at 1:05 am #

    G: I hope this makes everything clear.

    After the letter Jablonski (who is not representing the party *wink, wink*) sent, I can’t imagine he’ll show.

    I can see it now. Judge Malihi and a murderer’s row of citizen birthers and lawyer birthers, in a room, together for the duration.

    Malihi won’t postpone, as the SoS has committed him now.

    So he’ll have to hear them out.

    How far will it go?

    Who will we see? Which toys will they bring? What crazy will we hear?

    Here’s my official sneak peek! 😉

  51. avatar
    John Reilly January 26, 2012 at 1:12 am #

    My best guess is that the Democrats are out to force Gov. Deal and his administration to say that Pres. Obama is eligible. If Gov. Deal says he’s not eligible, Gingrich starts getting questions about this, and that puts him in a spot. Gingrich is already out there with his position that the President is the product of Kenyan anti-colonialism. Heck, I’m the product of Irish anti-colonialism. We don’t like the British any more than the Kenyans. I know, the reason will be that Mr. Jablonski didn’t show up. Won’t matter. USA Today will publish a copy of the birth certificate next to the story and it will be clear that Georgia has taken total leave of its senses.

    The correct answer for my Republican Party is exactly what the Senate unanimously did with Sen. McCain. The issue has to be about the economy, and not about the nuts running around who want to prove the earth is flat. It is time, as Speaker Boehner once said, for us to be grown-ups.

  52. avatar
    y_p_w January 26, 2012 at 1:16 am #

    izzybella:
    I am more confident that Obama was born in the US than I am about any other president in our history. He has the government of the state he was born in attesting to that fact. What other candidate in history has had that?

    Technically I would think any former President who had a certified birth certificate issued by a state agency. I only note that because it’s possible for certified birth certificates to be issued by cities or counties. In some cases it’s multiple jurisdictions that can issue a certificate attesting to the same birth. In an interesting twist, I found out that the federal government issues birth certificates in the unincorporated territory of American Samoa, although US nationality laws are a bit different there.

    However, if you’re talking about a public, on-the-record statement vouching for his birth in the state, then yeah – Obama’s the first.

    Also – in my ever expanding quest to know more about birth certificates, I found out that Washington state has an heirloom birth certificate program. For $40, one can obtain an artistically rendered legal birth certificate that has been personally signed (i.e. not a reproduction) by the Governor and state registrar. How cool is that? Reminds me of the time someone told me about a college where every diploma was hand-signed by the school president, the head of the individual college, etc. My diplomas all have signature reproductions.

  53. avatar
    misha January 26, 2012 at 1:18 am #

    Jerome: Keep moving them goalpoasts Dr.

    Jerome: I found a Kenya BC (Obama’s?). Hope this helps. Thanks for visiting.

  54. avatar
    nbc January 26, 2012 at 2:20 am #

    Jerome: Keep moving them goalpoasts Dr.

    Dr C is just evolving his position. The sight of the document being passed around in Court would indeed be quite exciting. This is not a matter of moving the goalpost though.

  55. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 2:35 am #

    But most of what he said isn’t much different from the position he has always had –

    He always said he expected the 2012 race to finally allow a situation in which the COLB could be shown in court…and since the early days, said he hoped it would be, to close that door.

    Further, prior to the LFBC being released by Obama, Dr. C was one of the few advocating for why it might be a good thing to have that happen. I on the other hand, disagreed. In the end, he was right and a surprising number of Birthers were actually satisfied by that, leaving only a hard core of those too invested in their myths, who simply doubled-down.

    So, his position has always leaned in the direction of what he posted here. Has it evolved slightly over time…yes, as most rational people do with their opinions, as they gain further information to reassess and refine them. But overall, that evolution has been in a fairly consistent direction with much of what he’s been saying all along. So, if anything, it is nothing but a refinement and surely not a change of direction or “moving the goalposts” as one uninformed poster alleged.

    nbc: Dr C is just evolving his position. The sight of the document being passed around in Court would indeed be quite exciting. This is not a matter of moving the goalpost though.

  56. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 2:38 am #

    I wouldn’t rule that out. Jablonski’s letter to the SoS had language that predicated his not showing upon not getting a response before the hearing took place. Now that the SoS has responded as it has and advised Jablonski that it would be in his best interest to be there, we can only hope that Jablonski can check his own ego at the door and get the hint and show up.

    We’ll know one way or the other in the morning when this all gets underway…

    JPotter: After the letter Jablonski (who is not representing the party *wink, wink*) sent, I can’t imagine he’ll show.

  57. avatar
    Lupin January 26, 2012 at 2:46 am #

    I’m going away for a few days (will be back on Monday) so it’ll be exciting to see what happens in the meanwhile.

    My 2 centimes are:

    On the one hand, I’m glad to see the legal process being followed without shortcuts or preferential treatments;

    On the other hand, didn’t you have a Civil War already to take care of these problems?

    As it is I believe the Electoral College gives a disproportionate amount of influence to the South, without compounding it with ridiculous challenges of this kind.

  58. avatar
    DonnyF January 26, 2012 at 2:49 am #

    I want to throw up every time I hear one of you cognitive challenged pea brain libs open your mouth. The salamander and thief is on the ropes.

    Michael Jablonski’s attempt to quash the subpoena was pathetic and laughable. You can easily they are on the run. They are scared to death that Obama will have to explain to a court, who the hell he is, where the hell he is from and why the hell he is doing his level best to destroy this country.
    This whole issue is going to blow up… This specific case may not succeed but someone somewhere will get Obama on the hot seat and the truth will come out. And just to make my perspective perfectly clear, I am not 100% convinced that Obama is ineligible to be president.. but i am convinced that he is hiding something very significant.

    I am also convinced that libs do not have the cognitive ability to perceive the truth. When Obama is thrown out of office and put in jail.. I am certian you nuts will not accept the truth. You will say he was framed because of his skin color. Because everyone who sees this president as a fraud hates black people. That’s what you’ll say… and the really sad part for you is, You’ll never know what it’s like to see the truth as it really is.

  59. avatar
    US Citizen January 26, 2012 at 2:50 am #

    G:
    But most of what he said isn’t much different from the position he has always had –

    He always said he expected the 2012 race to finally allow a situation in which the COLB could be shown in court…and since the early days, said he hoped it would be, to close that door.

    Further, prior to the LFBC being released by Obama, Dr. C was one of the few advocating for why it might be a good thing to have that happen.I on the other hand, disagreed.In the end, he was right and a surprising number of Birthers were actually satisfied by that, leaving only a hard core of those too invested in their myths, who simply doubled-down.

    So, his position has always leaned in the direction of what he posted here.Has it evolved slightly over time…yes, as most rational people do with their opinions, as they gain further information to reassess and refine them.But overall, that evolution has been in a fairly consistent direction with much of what he’s been saying all along.So, if anything, it is nothing but a refinement and surely not a change of direction or “moving the goalposts” as one uninformed poster alleged.

    This is the difference between G, Doc and your general birther- the ability to say when they’ve made a mistake.
    How often have you heard a birther say they were wrong or mistaken?
    That’s as rare as steak that still moos.

  60. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 2:51 am #

    Today’s events have made me suspicious that there might be a bit of this type of political gamesman ship at play here…particularly because of Gov. Deal and his past Birther positions.

    I hope we are both wrong on those suspicions. Like you, I would rather everything in politics not boil down to a bunch of silly tactical games…particularly when there are so many serious issues and problems that need to be addressed and focused on.

    I would rather see a straightforward hearing, focused on simply following the law and not playing to any circus or political theatrics. We’ll soon have the answer to that… or at least much greater insight on the personality and professionalism of the “players”. I sure hope the live feeds work in the hearing and capture everything well enough to get the feel of what is really going on here.

    John Reilly: My best guess is that the Democrats are out to force Gov. Deal and his administration to say that Pres. Obama is eligible. If Gov. Deal says he’s not eligible, Gingrich starts getting questions about this, and that puts him in a spot. Gingrich is already out there with his position that the President is the product of Kenyan anti-colonialism.

    Agreed!!! Also, I truly think that Speaker Boehner would have preferred to operate his House differently and get more accomplished, if he wasn’t being constantly stymied by his own Tea-Party infested House members…as well as the constant efforts of Cantor pulling his own selfish grabs for power. Boehner tries to play the role to pander to his crazed constituencies…and to certain lobbyists that back him…but I sense he’d rather be able to get things done and would be willing to be pragmatic, if only the politics of his party allowed it.

    John Reilly: The correct answer for my Republican Party is exactly what the Senate unanimously did with Sen. McCain. The issue has to be about the economy, and not about the nuts running around who want to prove the earth is flat. It is time, as Speaker Boehner once said, for us to be grown-ups.

  61. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 3:15 am #

    See, that is your problem, DonnyF – YOU are the one who seems hampered in being able to think critically.

    From your very own words, you openly demonstrate that you are blinded by confirmation bias and simply leap to conclusions and work backwards from there. That is not a rational thoought process. Sorry, but to use your very own words, that is being cognitively challenged. So, when you end up spouting off based on nothing but your irrational and uninformed biases, YOU are the one who only comes across here as a pea brain in doing so.

    Then again, that is what Projection is all about…something we see from your limited narrow minded kind all too often. I can only feel sorry for you and your inability to grasp a world beyond the flights of fancy you feed yourself, so you feel important.

    Sorry, but if you actually had the basic human skill of reading comprehension, you’d be able to read through these comments and see that quite a few of us regular posters here are NOT “libs” as you call them. Several of them are committed Republicans and/or Conservatives – folks that did not vote for Obama last time and have no plan to do so now. Some are openly Libertarian…and also not fond of Obama’s or his policies. Others of us are Independents, but don’t see any rational action or options from the current GOP.

    So, you just come across like an uninformed fool with your “lib” charge. Then again, ‘tards like you seem to just misuse words and simply apply them like cheap schoolyard taunts to simply mean “anyone who disagrees with you”.

    The rest of your post is similarly fraught with childish blowharding that doesn’t hold up to reality or which merely creates strawman that don’t match up at all with how the conversation here has gone down at all.

    Even a child could read this thread and see a general view of criticism being lobbed at Jablonski and how this whole thing has become an unnecessarily escalated circus. So, you are only preaching to the choir here on that charge.

    Everything else you said is a bunch of fantasy nonsense that exists within your own damaged and limited head. Sorry, but you are truly delusional if you think that Obama will be “thrown out of office and put in jail”.

    Yeah, good luck with that fantasy. Get used to disappointment…because all you seem to do, by not living in reality, is setting yourself up for a continuing string of disappointments. And yes, you only have yourself to blame for that. Also -stop bringing race into this issue. Why is that folks like you are usually the ones to introduce that into the equation, eh? It only speaks poorly of you that you’re so focused, bothered and obsessed by the issue that you have to introduce such notions into the conversation.

    In just a matter of hours, this pre-event drama will finally move from specuation to taking place at the hearing. Let’s see how that goes and how you feel about it after that. As crazy and unexpected as certain twists have been leading up to it, the reality is still extremely unlikely to be able to be anything other than a disappointment to the ridiculous expectations you seem to have set for it.

    DonnyF: I want to throw up every time I hear one of you cognitive challenged pea brain libs open your mouth. The salamander and thief is on the ropes.

    DonnyF: I am also convinced that libs do not have the cognitive ability to perceive the truth. When Obama is thrown out of office and put in jail.. I am certian you nuts will not accept the truth. You will say he was framed because of his skin color. Because everyone who sees this president as a fraud hates black people. That’s what you’ll say… and the really sad part for you is, You’ll never know what it’s like to see the truth as it really is.

    DonnyF: but i am convinced that he is hiding something very significant.

  62. avatar
    Nathanael January 26, 2012 at 3:15 am #

    JD Reed:

    And as for voting in the primary with no candidates listed — couldn’t Georgia Democrats write in Obama’s name, resulting in his winning the preference primary? Or would be SOS refuse to count write-in ballots for him?

    Dunno what Ga.’s rules are about write-in candidates. I’ve heard in some states a write-in has to appear in person to “collect” his votes by proving he’s a real person (e.g., “Mickey Mouse” would presumably fail to show up). Don’t think that’s true in Ga. but wouldn’t forcing Obama to show up in person also be a moral victory for birthers?

    Conversely, why bother? Ga.’s just one state, and even if all their delegates show up in Charlotte and vote en masse for Millard Filmore’s thrice-great-grand-nephew, it’s not like Obama won’t still win. All the birfers get is a moral victory, before digging in their heels and fighting the same battle all over again in the general (where, apparently, they lack standing to bring suit, anyway).

    Still, how the party selects its candidates is internal party business. While holding a primary is the conventional (no pun intended) method, I suppose GA Dems could ask the President to play paper-scissors-stone with himself and declare the winner their man, if they so chose.

    Couldn’t they?

    JD Reed:
    If the Ga SOS refuses to place Obama’s name on the blalot, can Team Obama file an emergency suit in a Georgia trial court to overturn the SOS’s decision?

    The consensus seems to be that at this point, whichever way the SOS rules he’s going to wind up in court. Well, he made his bed….

  63. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 3:20 am #

    Very rarely.

    I view those that can’t admit their own errors as extremely insecure and weak. If they weren’t such fragile little eggs, they wouldn’t live in fear of their little egos shattering by simply making mistakes, like all normal humans do.

    It is also a sign of behavior in those who (at least on some subconsious level) realize that their premise is built on nothing but a house of cards of lies in the first place – they have to live in constant fear that if they openly admit to any of their mistakes… then the whole house of cards comes crashing down on them… as it had no real foundation beneath it to begin with.

    US Citizen: How often have you heard a birther say they were wrong or mistaken?
    That’s as rare as steak that still moos.

  64. avatar
    misha January 26, 2012 at 3:21 am #

    DonnyF: I am not 100% convinced that Obama is ineligible to be president.. but i am convinced that he is hiding something very significant.

    An excellent point. I think what he is hiding is right here! Keep up the good fight!

  65. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny January 26, 2012 at 3:29 am #

    US Citizen:
    New state motto.
    Georgia.. the anti-constitution state.

    I think the GA SOS might be the one playing with sharp objects here.

    It is not a new state motto. It’s an old one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nast_vs_Greeley.JPG

  66. avatar
    US Citizen January 26, 2012 at 4:14 am #

    DonnyF: I want to throw up every time I hear one of you cognitive challenged pea brain libs open your mouth.

    Not being cognitively challenged myself, you must have come here because you’re bulimic.
    Seek help.

  67. avatar
    US Citizen January 26, 2012 at 4:20 am #

    misha: An excellent point. I think what he is hiding is right here! Keep up the good fight!

    Whoa! That is spot on!
    And almost 140 years old.
    About the same age of many RWNJs today.
    Great find! I bow to a mechanic.

  68. avatar
    The Magic M January 26, 2012 at 4:38 am #

    DonnyF: When Obama is thrown out of office and put in jail.. I am certian you nuts will not accept the truth. You will say he was framed because of his skin color.

    No, if it turned out he’s actually ineligible, I’d say “oh, I wouldn’t have thought so, sorry, you were right”.

    You keep projecting your own fears and delusions on other people. Contrary to you, sane people are able to admit mistakes, don’t have to lie to get their point across and will not call bloody murder if the other side wins.

  69. avatar
    Jim F January 26, 2012 at 6:37 am #

    It’s time to stand back and see the trees. The scheduling of the hearing was the big moment for the birthers and it should have been a watershed moment for the Obama camp.
    Here was an ideal opportunity to put all of the docs on record (yes, I know, that has already been done) and to get a judge to assert that they are authentic and fully acceptable. Instead of agreeing to have the hearing and making it clear that they would be looking for a “with prejudice” ruling the President’s lawyers made a mess of it, not once but twice. It dosen’t matter that the birthers have a hopeless case, what stands out is that , to the birthers, Obama is running away. I haven’t seen Orly’s site today but I am certain that she and her supporters are crowing and saying that Obama is running scared. Judge Malahi was correct in throwing out the request for dismissal because it was badly drafted and instead of making up for it by redrafting the request with proper case law , Jablonski makes the whole situation worse by asking the SoS to cancel the hearing.

    The SoS acted correctly in telling him to get on with it. I can’t imagine what is going through Jablonski’s mind . Is he worried that he will make a mess of the hearing, in which case he should be calling in some heavyweight help, even at this late stage. If he is the one calling the shots and making the decisions then he seems to have lost his nerve.
    If he is taking instructions from someone then their legal expertise or the lack of it is showing. Whatever about the legal expertise being shown It seems that politcal expertise has all deserted all of them.
    This should not be just about the birth cert or whatever, this is the President saying “I want this done and finished” . I am fully aware that the birthers will not accept any ruling that is made against them but it does set another judge’s ruling and at some stage the courts will have to start making it difficult to continue along the legal system. When the time comes when the courts insist on a deposit if fees and costs before any more cases are filed then the only forum for the birthers will be their own incestuous websites and who cares what they say there.
    If this is not resolved here then there are 49 more states and thousands of counties where any crackpot can lay complaints. Dodging this one will only give encouragement.
    Facing up to it will, possibly, speed the day when the courts say “enough is enough, if you come in here with frivilous law suits that have decided case law then you will pay for it”

  70. avatar
    Northland10 January 26, 2012 at 7:34 am #

    Jim F: I haven’t seen Orly’s site today but I am certain that she and her supporters are crowing and saying that Obama is running scared.

    I am starting to wonder if there may be some in the campaign running scared, scared they may lose their “crazy” issue to stick to the Republicans. Though, as we have seen countless times, even a catastrophic loss would not halt the birthers, given the heightened knowledge of this hearing, a ruling that goes against the birthers may discredit them even further from the political process. Cancelling the hearing would leave the issue dangling still, keeping some crazy for the Democrats to link to their opponents.

  71. avatar
    The Magic M January 26, 2012 at 8:14 am #

    Jim F: If this is not resolved here then there are 49 more states and thousands of counties where any crackpot can lay complaints.

    That is going to happen anyway, regardless of the outcome. Not just 49 times, but 99 times (49 presidential primaries plus 50 national elections).

    Jim F: I can’t imagine what is going through Jablonski’s mind

    I suppose he sees this as an insignificant nuisance – like “I’m not going to attend a meaningless hearing where Joe Blow will bring idiotic complaints”.
    If that’s a correct assumption and if this will hurt his client, that’s another story.

    Where’s the lawyer (forgot the name) who told birther plaintiffs “you’ll feel the wrath of me” when you need him? 😉

  72. avatar
    Jerome January 26, 2012 at 8:27 am #

    8:25 AM and the live feed is up. All the small courtroom full of the monochromatic birther peoples sitting around talking out their collective rears.

  73. avatar
    Jerome January 26, 2012 at 8:36 am #

    Some reporter taking a picture of the noticibly empty defendants table.

  74. avatar
    Jerome January 26, 2012 at 8:38 am #

    In walks Orly at 8:38

  75. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2012 at 8:42 am #

    Geez!!! A guy goes to get a night’s sleep and has to read about 300 posts!!

    The SoS letter doesn’t change my thoughts from last night. This proceeding is at most 5% legal and somewhere between 95 and 100% political. The SoS is in a bind. Does he play to the birther base and try to take Obama off the ballot? That looks like he is afraid of a fair fight, afraid that Obama could win Georgia, even against Newt. Aye caramba!! Meanwhile the economy is accelerating (durable goods up 3%, the market is rising) and Obama’s approval is now in positive territory in many polls and he beats every Republican challenger. Incumbents don’t lose in that scenario, especially incumbents who got bin Laden and Somali pirates and have extraordinarily flawed opponents. And especially an incumbent who in every single campaign has seen his opponents self-destruct-one had phony signatures, one took his wife to a sex club in Paris and one picked a dumb-as-rocks Veep and suspended his campaign when Lehman went bust. Anyone think this year’s crew won’t self-destruct also? They may already have.

    Look I don’t know if Jablonski will show up and bring a paper COLB. But why are statements from Hawaii and documents presented on-line and shown at the White House not sufficient to establish that someone was born where his parents lived, which is where almost everybody is born? Does a court need expert testimony from 3 astronomers to conclude that the Sun rises in the East?

  76. avatar
    Jerome January 26, 2012 at 9:06 am #

    9:01 : Judge calls the lawyers for the plaintiffs and defendants back to his “chambers” for a tlak. Still no show on the defense.

  77. avatar
    y_p_w January 26, 2012 at 9:17 am #

    Scientist:

    Look I don’t know if Jablonski will show up and bring a paper COLB.But why are statements from Hawaii and documents presented on-line and shown at the White House not sufficient to establish that someone was born where his parents lived, which is where almost everybody is born?Does a court need expert testimony from 3 astronomers to conclude that the Sun rises in the East?

    There would have been an alternative to the actual birth certificate. They could be worried (however unlikely) that letting an actual birth certificate out of the custody of WH, personal attorney, or official campaign could be an issue (i.e. someone steals it an tries to get a driver license in the President’s name).

    Hawaii’s Dept of Health can issue a “letter of verification” attesting to any facts. The request must list all the pertinent and correct information to be placed on the letter (like name, DOB, time of birth, place of birth). The letter will verify all facts that are correct, and I’m pretty sure that it would be sealed like a birth certificate. I have a college verification of attendance and degrees letter, and it’s got an embossed seal, although one that’s so weakly stamped that I can’t even make out what it’s supposed to say.

    The request could only be honored for someone otherwise allowed to have access to a regular birth certificate. The fee is (by statute) half that of a birth certificate. So for $5 they would be able to issue this. This is about as close as Hawaii gets to the “informational” certified copy that California jurisdictions can issue. I think theoretically they could ask for stuff to be verified that’s on the “long form” as long it’s it’s known.

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html

    Letters of Verification

    Letters of verification may be issued in lieu of certified copies (HRS §338-14.3). This document verifies the existence of a birth/death/civil union/marriage/divorce certificate on file with the Department of Health and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event. (For example, that a certain named individual was born on a certain date at a certain place.) The verification process will not, however, disclose information about the vital event contained within the certificate that is unknown to and not provided by the applicant in the request.

    Letters of verification are requested in similar fashion and using the same request forms as for certified copies.

    The fee for a letter of verification is $5 per letter.

  78. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2012 at 9:25 am #

    y_p_w: That’s silly.. The reason they aren’t attending with a COLB is not that they think someone could pretend to be the President and get a driver’s license. It’s that they have made a political decision that this hearing is illigitimate and will reflect poorly on the political opposition, which is not the birthers but the Republicans. It is of course possible that they are wrong, but I would be cautious in critcising the political judgements of a team that has a pretty good track record.

  79. avatar
    Jerome January 26, 2012 at 9:26 am #

    Hmm… 9:25 the lawyers came back to the court room after their private meeting with the judge. One of the four lawyers came back and sat at the defense desk. (It’s not jablonski) … Who dat?

  80. avatar
    y_p_w January 26, 2012 at 9:34 am #

    Scientist:
    y_p_w: That’s silly..The reason they aren’t attending with a COLB is not that they think someone could pretend to be the President and get a driver’s license.It’s that they have made a political decision that this hearing is illigitimate and will reflect poorly on the political opposition, which is not the birthers but the Republicans.It is of course possible that they are wrong, but I would be cautious in critcising the political judgements of a team that has a pretty good track record.

    Yeah – I also though it could very well be a calculated risk. They probably don’t want to set any kind of precedent where they’ve got to do this dozens of times, although I’m pretty sure that few states have this kind of challenge provision.

  81. avatar
    y_p_w January 26, 2012 at 9:44 am #

    Man – real quasi-judicial proceedings are boring as heck.

  82. avatar
    y_p_w January 26, 2012 at 9:48 am #

    I’d be surprised if Judge Malihi isn’t just going through all this dog and pony show just to go through the motions, but will then later decide that he’s not qualified to make obscure determinations of United State Constitutional law.

  83. avatar
    J. Potter January 26, 2012 at 9:53 am #

    Jerome: … Who dat?

    Probably just crowded, spreading out.

  84. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 10:00 am #

    Well, it certainly is a dog and pony show at the moment. The judge just sits there and the Birthers simple put people on the stand and ask them questions that only seem to demonstrate that they can read the papers put in front of them… *rolls eyes*

    If the judge is just letting them trot out all their nonsense until they get tired, this is going to be a long dog and pony show. Who knows how long Orly will prattle on…

    y_p_w: I’d be surprised if Judge Malihi isn’t just going through all this dog and pony show just to go through the motions, but will then later decide that he’s not qualified to make obscure determinations of United State Constitutional law.

  85. avatar
    J. Potter January 26, 2012 at 10:17 am #

    Orly time! Whoooot!

  86. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 10:21 am #

    Why are so many people leaving the court room?… they are missing the entertaining part of Mad Orly on full display! 😉

  87. avatar
    J. Potter January 26, 2012 at 10:27 am #

    Wow, the SSN stuff. This really is just a hearing. As in judge will sit and hear whatever there is to hear. He’s either eating this up or a million miles away right now.

  88. avatar
    El Diablo Negro January 26, 2012 at 10:28 am #

    Since I am at work, I can only check so often. Looks ho-hum so far.

  89. avatar
    y_p_w January 26, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    G:
    Well, it certainly is a dog and pony show at the moment.The judge just sits there and the Birthers simple put people on the stand and ask them questions that only seem to demonstrate that they can read the papers put in front of them… *rolls eyes*

    I’ve said I’ve been on a couple of jury trials. There were many cases where witnesses (especially law enforcement) simply read out of accident or police reports that they wrote.

  90. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 10:47 am #

    Yeah, but those folks are reading out of police reports that restate words those witnesses said…and deal with a report on an incident they were purportedly involved in..

    …Here we started out with “witnesses” reading passages from Dreams of My Father… and other stuff like that. *rolls eyes* No different from the attorney having just submitted the info as an Exhibit. No first-hand knowledge of the events they are talking about whatsoever at all..

    y_p_w: I’ve said I’ve been on a couple of jury trials. There were many cases where witnesses (especially law enforcement) simply read out of accident or police reports that they wrote.

  91. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2012 at 11:58 am #

    Ignore the troll.

  92. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 12:11 pm #

    He just keeps cr@pping the same cut & paste nonsense over and over again on several threads.

    He needs to be treated like SPAM. That is all he’s doing.

    Majority Will: Ignore the troll.

  93. avatar
    misha January 26, 2012 at 12:31 pm #

    Mike: DO NOT CENSOR THIS POSTING!!! THANKS!! THERE IS NOTHING IN THIS POST THAT WOULD JUSTIFY CENSORING IT!!

    When are you going to come up for air?

  94. avatar
    misha January 26, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    Mike: If you are a rational person

    You are a blathering crank.

  95. avatar
    Samuel January 26, 2012 at 4:07 pm #

    Laughable. Can’t wait for this whole charade to be removed to Federal Court and then have the plaintiff’s attorney to be made to pay for the costs of the hearing and attorney’s fees.

  96. avatar
    JoZeppy January 26, 2012 at 5:21 pm #

    Samuel: Laughable. Can’t wait for this whole charade to be removed to Federal Court and then have the plaintiff’s attorney to be made to pay for the costs of the hearing and attorney’s fees.

    I’m not convinced it will come to that. The judge saw he was dealing with cranks. I find it very hard to believe that an actual judge would swallow this B.S.

    But it wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong.

    And if it did come down to going back to court, President Obama would be challenging the Georgia SoS. The birthers wouldn’t be a party to the litigaiton.