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Joe Arpaio: live feed

In a partnership with WorldNetDaily (WND), Western Center for Journalism, and Article II Super PAC, Vattelevision is pleased to announce that it will provide complete video operations and support for live-streaming video of the March 1 press conference in which the initial findings of Maricopa County’s Cold Case Posse investigation into the eligibility of Barack H. Obama will be released.

I don’t pretend to understand the relationships here. The aptly-misnamed “Birther Summit” in the hyperlinks seems to be run by a group called Vattelevision (perhaps a name that will enter the vernacular as a synonym of “myopia”) and then there is the Article II Super PAC, and the Article II Super PAC legal defense fund. Joseph Farah is behind both WorldNetDaily and the Western Center for journalism. I looked up “front organization” in the Wikipedia for help. So whether we’re looking at 5 organizations here, or just 2, is a question worth considering.

Understanding the relationships is not necessary to report the story, and that is Vattelevision plans to provide live streaming coverage of Maricopa County Joe Arpaio’s press conference next Thursday, March 1.

The Phoenix New Times reported last November:

We spoke to Arpaio yesterday afternoon. His surprise for the "birthers": Hawaiian twins and microfiche.

"No one has talked about microfiche. The controversy has been over the birth certificate — maybe the numbers are not in sequence, or it’s been forged; I can go on and on," Arpaio explains. "To help the president of the United States, let’s go to the microfiche."

I don’t know where Arpaio is going to get his hands on any microfiche, or anything else that’s not accessible others – and that issue, the lack of any ability for an Arizona County Sheriff to investigate anything in Hawaii, leads one to ask why Arpaio is doing this, and what he could possibly add to what’s already known.

I hope WorldNetDaily’s participation doesn’t signal that Arpaio’s report will be the same kind of fact-less innuendo-driven political smear characteristic of WND’s reporting.  It seems to me that WorldNetDaily wouldn’t invest itself into an issue where they didn’t already know the outcome. If Arpaio just recites content from Jerome Corsi’s books, then it will energize the birthers and boost WND site visits, but be roundly put down by everyone else, just as Corsi’s books have been.

I’m not hopeful. Energized birthers can be really insufferable.  I think it’s time to put on the mud guards.

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113 Responses to Joe Arpaio: live feed

  1. avatar
    Paper February 24, 2012 at 12:10 pm #

    “Insufferable” is exactly the right word! I’ve been looking for that word.

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 24, 2012 at 12:15 pm #

    I left this comment at the Phoenix New Times web site:

    “The question is: What can an Arizona county sheriff possibly uncover that is not already in the public domain? Arpaiio’s not going to get his hands on any Hawaiian vital records microfiche. He can’t subpoena anything.

    The only possible outcome of this “investigation” is a repeat of existing information. Arpaio can either report it straight-up in line with reports by the NY Times, CNN, Politifact and FactCheck.org. Or he can spin it with mystery and innuendo like Jerome Corsi, WorldNetDaily and all of the birthers.

    Personally, I’m preparing for an onslaught of insufferably smug birthers.”

    Paper:
    “Insufferable” is exactly the right word!I’ve been looking for that word.

  3. avatar
    donna February 24, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

    trump did the same thing: his people in hawaii can’t believe what they’re finding

    his ONLY sources were the DEBUNKED corsi and WING NUTZZ DAILY

  4. avatar
    richCares February 24, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

    The press conference is a pre cursor to the frog marching that will occur shortly after, I still have frogs available at 30cents lb, order now. This world shaking event will be streamed live by the combined efforts of Dean Haskins and the world leader in news ,WND. The reputation of both these major players in conspiracy theory’s is well known throughout Birferstan. Joe Farah, of mustache fame, will email full report if you sign up on their paypal site. This will be Birferstan’s greatest OMG moment, and will follow in the same footsteps as all the other OMG moments, praise be to Orly and Obots beware or wary. This story is important enough for a two-bit news site to cover it.

  5. avatar
    bovril February 24, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

    Ahhhhhh, slightly off topic bust I just watched Orly being slapped down hard in Indiana and it as EPIC.

    The board chairman even used the phrase, “We’re not the Spanish Inquistion here”

    I belive there is or will be a link for the audio at the Fogbow ….

    The live reporting starts here..well worth it

    http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=6950&start=350

  6. avatar
    Kenneth Olsen February 24, 2012 at 12:53 pm #

    Energized Birthers are insufferable?!

    Shouldn’t those presenting themselves as scientific, interested in the study of fringe theories and behavior, be utterly delighted by the vitality of their favored specimens?

  7. avatar
    G February 24, 2012 at 12:55 pm #

    I suspect the team up between “VattelVision” (i.e. Dean Haskins and his “backers”) and WND is simply that WND will foot the bill for Dean to travel there and broadcast.

    I would assume that Dean had all that recording / broadcasting equipment from his music business studio anyways. With the recent shut down of the Birther Summit, due to bleeding further into the red, Dean obviously needed someone else to step forward and fund his transportation from VA to AZ. I suspect there has been a fairly cosy relationship between Dean and the folks behind WND all along…

  8. avatar
    justlw February 24, 2012 at 12:59 pm #

    bovril: The live reporting starts here..well worth it

    Oh. My. God.

    Not to go all Dennis Miller on you, but the only thing missing here is Herbert Morrison.

  9. avatar
    Joey February 24, 2012 at 1:00 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen:
    Energized Birthers are insufferable?!

    Shouldn’t those presenting themselves as scientific, interested in the study of fringe theories and behavior, be utterly delighted by the vitality of their favored specimens?

    I see Kenny’s point but after an issue loses 164 times in a row, Einstein’s maxim becomes
    pertinent: “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”

  10. avatar
    donna February 24, 2012 at 1:15 pm #

    the download for the audio

    http://www.mediafire.com/?v95l8ckzq2ov9cm

  11. avatar
    Kenneth Olsen February 24, 2012 at 1:26 pm #

    Hey Joey,
    Did Einstein have a maxim about those who devote themselves to ridiculing the insane?

  12. avatar
    RuhRoh February 24, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

    I don’t think WND cares what’s in Arpaio’s report. Streaming the press conference will generate traffic to WND’s website. Whether Arpaio comes up with something new (unlikely), bolsters previous birther fantasies or states unequivocally that President Obama is a NBC (highly unlikely) the comment section will light up like a 5-alarm fire for a few days. Farah and Corsi will subsequently write editorials spinning or decrying whatever Arpaio says for weeks, generating more traffic. WND will generate revenue regardless of what Arpaio says and Farah knows it.

  13. avatar
    NBC February 24, 2012 at 1:30 pm #

    And again Orly lost to an ’empty chair’… Hilarious…

  14. avatar
    Paper February 24, 2012 at 1:31 pm #

    That presumes “vitality.” I am personally acquainted with some very adamant birthers, and vitality is not the word I would use. Insufferable seems right. Indeed, my closeness to said birthers has taught me that there are some things that just are insufferable in life.

    In terms of “specimens,” birthers are examples of how evolution weeds out failures.

    Kenneth Olsen:
    Energized Birthers are insufferable?!

    Shouldn’t those presenting themselves as scientific, interested in the study of fringe theories and behavior, be utterly delighted by the vitality of their favored specimens?

  15. avatar
    ASK Esq February 24, 2012 at 1:34 pm #

    I’m sure this will be a meaningful press conference. After all, Sheriff Joe told us that he doesn’t hold press conferences just to get on TV.

    He also doesn’t breathe just to get oxygen or eat just to get nourishment.

  16. avatar
    Paper February 24, 2012 at 1:50 pm #

    Well, Galileo did. See his *Dialogue Concerning The Two Chief World Systems.* If you want to see a scientist using ridicule like a samurai sword, that’s the classic. You can even draw parallels with the main characters in that work. See Simplicio for the birthers.

    I don’t particularly favor ridicule as a rhetorical strategy, but it it is an old one.

    Kenneth Olsen:
    Hey Joey,
    Did Einstein have a maxim about those who devote themselves to ridiculing the insane?

  17. avatar
    Arthur February 24, 2012 at 1:50 pm #

    donna: the download for the audiohttp://www.mediafire.com/?v95l8ckzq2ov9cm

    Thanks for the link, donna! It was a delight to hear Orly quote Al Pacino.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ND78p_M5g

  18. avatar
    Arthur February 24, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen: Did Einstein have a maxim about those who devote themselves to ridiculing the insane?

    Yes he did: Wenn sie nicht lächerlich gemacht werden wollen, lassen sie sich nicht verrückt.

  19. avatar
    Bill DuBerger February 24, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    Remember… Farah was bragging about daily phone conversations with Trump when the Donald was out doing his “Hey look at me, and where’s Obama’s birth certificate?” press junket/NBC contract renewal negotiations. And now they suspect Trump of being a double agent.

    WND may be overimagining their relationship with the Sheriff. He’s up for re-election, and I don’t think he feels any deep obligation to Farah/Corsi, or to birthers in general.

  20. avatar
    G February 24, 2012 at 1:59 pm #

    I’m not talking Einstein here, but these tried and true maxims apply:

    If you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t act ridiculous.

    Better to be merely thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it.

    So please, spare us your wussy “victim card” Concern Trolling act. Right now the world’s smallest violin is playing for you…

    Kenneth Olsen: Hey Joey,Did Einstein have a maxim about those who devote themselves to ridiculing the insane?

  21. avatar
    Bill DuBerger February 24, 2012 at 2:00 pm #

    Sorry…I was playing with the HTML and made that look like a quote from Doc.
    It was not. It was mine.

  22. avatar
    Kenneth Olsen February 24, 2012 at 2:31 pm #

    Yo, G, it ain’t about me. I’m not perfect; I’m just seeking enlightenment from you deep thinkers.

    Are birthers insane/mentally ill or aren’t they? Many posts on this site assert they are.
    If they are insane or mentally ill, they’re not responsible for their actions, are they?

    If they’re not responsible for their actions, why do scientists like Dr. C insist on mocking them?

    Explain away!

  23. avatar
    G February 24, 2012 at 2:43 pm #

    Thanks for both the heads up, the link to the Fogbow thread and the audio!

    WOW… just WOW! Orly was her usual hot mess of a debacle and the hearing committee was rightly of limited patience with the inadmissable hearsay and clown show strewn in front of them. Sounds like Orly was about to cry at certain points in the audio.

    I hope the video becomes available soon too.

    I also found it interesting to hear the Birthers speaking into the open mike during the 5 minute recess.. LOL!

    donna: the download for the audiohttp://www.mediafire.com/?v95l8ckzq2ov9cm

    bovril: Ahhhhhh, slightly off topic bust I just watched Orly being slapped down hard in Indiana and it as EPIC.The board chairman even used the phrase, “We’re not the Spanish Inquistion here”I belive there is or will be a link for the audio at the Fogbow ….The live reporting starts here..well worth ithttp://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=6950&start=350

  24. avatar
    sactosintolerant February 24, 2012 at 2:57 pm #

    Birthers have been treating Sheriff Joe like the messiah. I can’t wait to see the reaction when they don’t get the news they want. Unfortunately, I fear he’ll find a way to pander to them even though he won’t say Obama is verifiably ineligible.

  25. avatar
    Xyxox February 24, 2012 at 3:03 pm #

    I think Arpaio is going to raise questions, make claims that the BC could be phony, and generally play footsie with the birthers in order to distract from the fact that the feds are closing in on him over an investigation that started under the Bush administration.

  26. avatar
    G February 24, 2012 at 3:05 pm #

    A number of them sure seem to meet the clinical definitions of mental illness.

    Sorry, I’m not a liberal, so I don’t take the view of mental illness as being an excuse for crazy and irresponsible behavior. I believe in the death penalty and do not think mental illness is a valid excuse in those situations either. Case in point – Jared Lee Loughner: Once he is found competent to stand trial, I believe he deserves the death sentence. I felt the same about serial killer sickos like Jeffrey Dahmer, etc.

    If one is ill, they should be seeking professional help and taking whatever medications are needed for that. I realize that a major component of mental illness is that the ill person often cannot grasp the extent or seriousness of their own problems and can be reluctant to seek treatment. Well, that is where they need “care providers” that look out for their interests on their behalf. Bottom line – if they can’t funtion responsibly within society, then I’m all for having them removed and institutionalized somewhere where they can be cared for and prevented from being a danger to themselves or others. My sympathy ends where unwillingness to accept personal responsibility takes hold.

    If someone is not really “crazy” but merely a blowhard spouting crazy and unfounded things, yeah, they deserve every bit of mocking and blowback that comes their way. It is a simple matter of cause and effect. If you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t act ridiculous.

    I suspect many of these folks really do know better and only pull this stuff as an intentional act of smear propaganda. That is clear intent to deceive and wilfull dishonesty and disingenuous intentions. That deserves even stronger ire, contempt and well-earned disgust. There is no integrity in being a willful liar. Do so, and you earn every bit of shame and ill-will directed your way.

    I’m sick of this namby-pamby effete woosy attitude of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility by a bunch of irresponsible and lazy loudmouths, who think that they can just cast aspersions willy-nilly and sling poo and then cry “foul” when they are called out on it. They get the treatment that they bring upon themselves. Simple as that. No sympathy here.

    If someone wants respect, they need to earn it. Demonstrate that you can converse like a responsible adult and you will be treated as one.

    Act like a lying emotional child lashing out with sheer ignorance and bile and you deserve to be slapped around for it.

    If you fall for crazy conspiracy nonsense, then you have demonstrated your susceptibility to crankery and your utter gullibility and you earn the mocking that comes along with that.

    There. Since you asked my opinion on these matters, you’ve got it.

    Kenneth Olsen: Yo, G, it ain’t about me. I’m not perfect; I’m just seeking enlightenment from you deep thinkers.Are birthers insane/mentally ill or aren’t they? Many posts on this site assert they are.If they are insane or mentally ill, they’re not responsible for their actions, are they?If they’re not responsible for their actions, why do scientists like Dr. C insist on mocking them?Explain away!

  27. avatar
    Arthur February 24, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen: Are birthers insane/mentally ill or aren’t they? Many posts on this site assert they are.
    If they are insane or mentally ill, they’re not responsible for their actions, are they?
    If they’re not responsible for their actions, why do scientists like Dr. C insist on mocking them?

    Yes, Kenneth, birthers are mentally ill and no, they aren’t responsible for their actions. As to the second part of your query: speaking only for myself, the reason I mock them is because I’m mean and it’s fun.

  28. avatar
    Kenneth Olsen February 24, 2012 at 3:33 pm #

    But Arthur, you’re just a layman.

  29. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm February 24, 2012 at 3:36 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen:
    Energized Birthers are insufferable?!

    Shouldn’t those presenting themselves as scientific, interested in the study of fringe theories and behavior, be utterly delighted by the vitality of their favored specimens?

    Well, we gotta have sumpthin to do until the new Three Stooges movie comes out.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  30. avatar
    Kenneth Olsen February 24, 2012 at 3:36 pm #

    Isn’t a scientist making fun of the mentally ill analogous to a mathematician mocking the polynomials?

    Or is it much more callous?

  31. avatar
    Arthur February 24, 2012 at 3:38 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen: But Arthur, you’re just a layman.

    STOP PICKING ON ME!!!! I’m not interested in you! GOD!

  32. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm February 24, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen:
    Isn’t a scientist making fun of the mentally ill analogous to a mathematician mocking the polynomials?

    Or is it much more callous?

    Actually, ridicule is a good technique to use on people suffering from narcissistic type disorders. Narcissists and their fellow travelers usually display an inflated sense of self worth to help compensate for their insecurities, so hitting them in their pride can often make them reassess their behavior.

    For those with the Idee Fixe issues, longer term therapy is probably called for, sooo I am plan on “teasing them long time.”

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  33. avatar
    Matt February 24, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    Dr. C. wrote:

    “I don’t know where Arpaio is going to get his hands on any microfiche, or anything else that’s not accessible others – and that issue, the lack of any ability for an Arizona County Sheriff to investigate anything in Hawaii, leads one to ask why Arpaio is doing this, and what he could possibly add to what’s already known.”

    ————–

    HRS section 338(d) states: Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.

    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm

    Index data. Unlike requests for vital records (such as a copy of a birth certificate), this does not seem to be limited to 75 years or older, or limited to people working on geneology projects.

    I think this is what Sheriff Joe was after (and probably obtained). If Obama’s name is listed in the index, he was born in Hawaii. If it isn’t, he wasn’t.

  34. avatar
    G February 24, 2012 at 4:03 pm #

    Agreed.

    Squeeky Fromm: Actually, ridicule is a good technique to use on people suffering from narcissistic type disorders. Narcissists and their fellow travelers usually display an inflated sense of self worth to help compensate for their insecurities, so hitting them in their pride can often make them reassess their behavior.For those with the Idee Fixe issues, longer term therapy is probably called for, sooo I am plan on “teasing them long time.”Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

  35. avatar
    richCares February 24, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    gong birther seemed to help Trump initially, then Obama nailed him and Trump’s polical fortune was gone.However even before it was gone he was being ridiculed on news shows on his birther stance. Will sheriff joe follow that same path, I don’t think so (unless he is more stupid than I know).

  36. avatar
    Kenneth Olsen February 24, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    Squeeky! Dr. Conspiracy’s Obamaconspiracy.org has a “Quotes of the Day” archive. A brief perusal shows that many of the quotes of the day come from… wait for it… Dr. Conspiracy!

    Is Dr. Conspiracy a narcissist?

  37. avatar
    bovril February 24, 2012 at 4:09 pm #

    Matt: Index data. Unlike requests for vital records (such as a copy of a birth certificate), this does not seem to be limited to 75 years or older, or limited to people working on geneology projects.
    I think this is what Sheriff Joe was after (and probably obtained). If Obama’s name is listed in the index, he was born in Hawaii. If it isn’t, he wasn’t.

    IIRC, either Danae or Butterdezillion over at Freeperville posted about they or a fellow traveller had made a trip to Hawai’i, accessed the index data and showed a copy showing….ta-da the Presidents name was there correctly………..another Birfoon fail

  38. avatar
    Daniel February 24, 2012 at 4:09 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen:
    Isn’t a scientist making fun of the mentally ill analogous to a mathematician mocking the polynomials?

    Or is it much more callous?

    People who are mentally ill through no fault or volition of their own should not be mocked by any professional.

    Birthers, however, by and large choose to be birthers. Their ignorance is willful, and that, I believe, disqualifies then from the dispensation that involuntary illness affords.

  39. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny February 24, 2012 at 4:16 pm #

    Some wisdom for both Oly and Arpaio:
    “Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”

    So, Kenneth, it is not Doc who is is mocking the birfers, but the gods.

  40. avatar
    donna February 24, 2012 at 4:20 pm #

    the “index data ” has been available

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13442571

  41. avatar
    Paper February 24, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    I’ve found that they tend to go the other way, become more recalcitrant, violent, and angry. They try to turn the tables back in a blind parrot fashion, trying to mock back, or ridicule or project back, rather than acknowledge anything. The they start jointing Patriot groups and the like (or so I have see happen) and just take their vitriol up to another level, because that’s all they end up with, violence and force.

    Squeeky Fromm: Actually, ridicule is a good technique to use on people suffering from narcissistic type disorders. Narcissists and their fellow travelers usually display an inflated sense of self worth to help compensate for their insecurities, so hitting them in their pride can often make them reassess their behavior.

  42. avatar
    G February 24, 2012 at 4:34 pm #

    Video of the IN smackdown of Orly is now available, via Fogbow:

    http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=6950&start=575#p348108

    G: Thanks for both the heads up, the link to the Fogbow thread and the audio!WOW… just WOW! Orly was her usual hot mess of a debacle and the hearing committee was rightly of limited patience with the inadmissable hearsay and clown show strewn in front of them. Sounds like Orly was about to cry at certain points in the audio.I hope the video becomes available soon too. I also found it interesting to hear the Birthers speaking into the open mike during the 5 minute recess.. LOL!

  43. avatar
    Paper February 24, 2012 at 4:38 pm #

    Galileo suffered that fate. His ridicule stands him in good stead historically, but it just ratcheted up his contemporary opponent’s force (Catholic church).

  44. avatar
    Paper February 24, 2012 at 4:39 pm #

    The difference being birthers have no actual power or authority, unlike the Catholic Church of Galileo’s day.

  45. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 24, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    Matt: I think this is what Sheriff Joe was after (and probably obtained). If Obama’s name is listed in the index, he was born in Hawaii. If it isn’t, he wasn’t.

    If it is so easily available why hasn’t anyone else obtained it?

  46. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 24, 2012 at 5:05 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Or he can spin it with mystery and innuendo like Jerome Corsi, WorldNetDaily and all of the birthers.

    Having lived in Arizona most of Arapio’s time in office and watched him at work my best guess is that he wil essentially cop a plea: “Gee, this is really complicated folks and we can’t solve the “case” but there are people who can – Congress, Orly Taitz the Easter Bunny – and we’re going to pack up all our stuff and send it to them. We tried, honest, but the evil forces arrayed against the freedom loving people of America were even more powerful than me!”

    Something like that.

  47. avatar
    gorefan February 24, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

    CarlOrcas: If it is so easily available why hasn’t anyone else obtained it?

    It has been obtained and it listed President Obama. Since the listing is alphabetical it does nothing to clear up the certification numbers (which are not listed in the index).

  48. avatar
    y_p_w February 24, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

    CarlOrcas: If it is so easily available why hasn’t anyone else obtained it?

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13442571

    Lost in the renewed scrutiny into President Barack Obama’s birth records is the fact that anyone can walk into a Hawaii vital records office, wait in line behind couples getting marriage licenses and open a baby-blue government binder containing basic information about his birth.

    Highlighted in yellow on page 1,218 of the thick binder is the computer-generated listing for a boy named Barack Hussein Obama II born in Hawaii, surrounded by the alphabetized last names of all other children born in-state between 1960 and 1964. This is the only government birth information, called “index data,” available to the public.

    So far this month, only The Associated Press and one other person had looked at the binder, according to a sign-in sheet viewed Wednesday in the state Department of Health building. The sheet showed about 25 names of people who have seen the document since March 2010, when the sign-in sheet begins.

    As to why the birthers don’t seem to have discovered this…….

    Nowhere Man please listen,
    You don’t know what you’re missing,
    Nowhere Man,the world is at your command.

    He’s as blind as he can be,
    Just sees what he wants to see,
    Nowhere Man can you see me at all?

    Nowhere Man, don’t worry,
    Take your time, don’t hurry,
    Leave it all till somebody else
    lends you a hand.</i?

  49. avatar
    y_p_w February 24, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    bovril: Ahhhhhh, slightly off topic bust I just watched Orly being slapped down hard in Indiana and it as EPIC.The board chairman even used the phrase, “We’re not the Spanish Inquistion here”I belive there is or will be a link for the audio at the Fogbow ….The live reporting starts here..well worth ithttp://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=6950&start=350

    How much stuff does she get wrong? She mentions she got Stanley Ann Dunham’s passport application from the DoJ when passport records are from the State Department.

  50. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 24, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    gorefan: It has been obtained and it listed President Obama

    Yes, I know. But it seems others don’t.

  51. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 24, 2012 at 5:25 pm #

    y_p_w: As to why the birthers don’t seem to have discovered this…….

    Because they don’t want to and if they did they wouldn’t believe it.

    Nowhere Man, 2012

  52. avatar
    Whatever4 February 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Yes, I know. But it seems others don’t.

    Here’s the images of the index books and the page:
    http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/people-remember-president-obama/friends/#Hawaii

  53. avatar
    Thomas Brown February 24, 2012 at 5:47 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen:
    Squeeky!Dr. Conspiracy’s Obamaconspiracy.org has a “Quotes of the Day” archive. A brief perusal shows that many of the quotes of the day come from… wait for it…Dr. Conspiracy!

    Is Dr. Conspiracy a narcissist?

    Here’s how it works: If the quotes are good, he isn’t. If he lists his quotes along with great ones, and his are lousy, then yes. Like, for instance if you published a list of smart people and it included “Kenneth Olsen.”

  54. avatar
    richCares February 24, 2012 at 5:49 pm #

    donna, thanks for the audio link. I downloaded and listened, it was fun. However I did improve it slightly, I merged some music into it for background . The song was “Ding Dong the Witch….” from the Wizard of Oz, fits perfectly

  55. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 24, 2012 at 5:53 pm #

    Whatever4: Here’s the images of the index books and the page:

    But, but, but…….but……….

    Oh, never mind.

    Emily Latella, 1975-1980 RIP

  56. avatar
    donna February 24, 2012 at 6:01 pm #

    “donna, thanks for the audio link. I downloaded and listened, it was fun. However I did improve it slightly, I merged some music into it for background . The song was “Ding Dong the Witch….” from the Wizard of Oz, fits perfectly”

    you’re VERY WELCOME

    cleva fella with the background music

    lol

    now i can’t get that song out of my head

  57. avatar
    US Citizen February 24, 2012 at 6:08 pm #

    I’m going to comment on a couple of posts here.

    1. Joe. He’s an attention-whore. Simple as that.
    A small town sheriff who enjoys any national interest he can get.
    Joe has been contacted by people all over the US giving him support.
    He now feels more empowered than he really is.
    But he just likes the phone to ring from anywhere outside AZ at this point.
    I’m sure he knows he won’t be unseating the president.

    2. G. Sir. While I’m no expert in mental illness, I certainly can say from personal experience that “care providers” and help in the US is nothing as you imagine it to be. If one becomes injured or ill, they often become depressed.
    Their work suffers and they go broke.
    The last place they can afford to go is a doctor or hospital, especially with no insurance.
    It’s a huge assumption that one can just call 911, go to an emergency room or be committed to long term care.
    In reality, our system is quite broken and such help is not available.
    Not everyone has friends, family, money or insurance.
    Without those, a mentally ill person is alone.

    For example, let’s say someone threatens to commit suicide.
    Out comes the police and perhaps they take them away for a 3 day hold.
    After that, if no charges are pressing, they release them…. more depressed and more broke than before.
    They either make the problem worse or convince the patient not to seek future help.
    They don’t actually help.
    They go the minimal motions of what the law dictates.

    The fact of the matter is that mental illness is very complex and very complex things often require considerable resources and time to combat.
    The US and many other countries simply don’t have those resources.
    It’s a myth that one battling depression, mental illness or chronic pain can get help easily, especially if money is an issue.
    There are countless posts on forums that back this up repeatedly.
    I’ve seen people in emergency rooms bleeding for 12 hrs with zero help from anyone working there.
    Mind you, this usually only happens to adults.
    Children tend to get immediate help everywhere, but as they get older, help becomes less and less available.
    It’s an extension of the common “save babies; punish adults” beliefs that many so-called “Christians” espouse.
    But funny enough, it doesn’t extend to adoption of children or forgiveness of adults.
    Lots of hypocrisy in these waters, but that’s the way it is.

    It would be great if someone… even Jared Loughner… could call somewhere and get actual help before they flip out, but in reality those places truly don’t exist.
    Convincing many people of this fact is very difficult as they’ve harbored the assumption for a very long time that help is available to anyone sick.
    It’s a very slippery slope- one could argue that anyone who takes a gun and kills people is insane, but also that insanity shouldn’t be punished.
    I think Jared should be locked away where he can do no harm, but the fact is that place is a prison, not a hospital.
    So we’re left with three possible places an ill person can be.
    At home (or homeless), a hospital or prison.
    None of them are where help is truly available for most mentally ill people.
    This is the truth… unless you happen to be rich.
    In that case, there are countless places that will be happy to take your money.
    But we’re talking *thousands* of dollars a DAY.
    When drugs and guns cost less than medical help, painful outcomes will continue to repeat.

    3. Are birthers mentally ill? That’s a big question to answer.
    If I call a birther ill for his beliefs, I’d also have to call all religious people ill for theirs. They both believe in things that have no proof.
    I think most people can operate in society whether they are religious or a birther, but there is a line between beliefs and actions.
    For example, when the Westboro Baptist Church goes into action, they have crossed that line. Otherwise, no one cares.
    Same for birthers when they abuse the legal system or cause others harm.
    As for ridicule, I think there would be less if it wasn’t for birthers often being so hostile.
    This might sound like blaming the victim, but the fact is that no birthers have been able to show any court they have been victimized in the first place.

  58. avatar
    JPotter February 24, 2012 at 6:10 pm #

    Haskins’ Vattelevision site is a crackup:

    http://vattelevision.com/about.htm

    Screams “FALSE FRONT” … particulary the usual suspects lineup of partners and the ludicrously narrow mission statement: “We specialize in events related to constitutional issues, specifically, Article II Section 1 requirements.” not too mention the utter lack of content.

    Yeah, there’s lots of those in the non-birthin’ world.

    Supposedly an LLC. Yet the Virginia Corporation Commission has no info on it. Where incorporated then?

    My money is on nowhere. Another Haskins figment.

  59. avatar
    Scientist February 24, 2012 at 6:33 pm #

    JPotter: Yet the Virginia Corporation Commission has no info on it. Where incorporated then?

    The loosest corporate rules are Delaware and Nevada. Unless he’s like Mitt Romney and prefers offshore…

  60. avatar
    G February 24, 2012 at 6:48 pm #

    US Citizen, you’ve made some very important points. I am quite sympathetic and understanding of what you said.

    I am not trying to be cruel to the legitimately mentally ill. I do realize we have a terribly broken system and fully support more funding and avenues to help both the mentally ill and those suffering from addiction. I do agree that the expenses make it difficult for many to get the treatment and care that they need.

    I prefer treatment to incarceration, where appropriate. I also want to see those folks achieve human dignity. I also realize that a number of the existing medications cause undesirable side effects, which make many patients almost prefer to risk not being treated. I know people in these circumstances and have seen this happen. I truly am sympathetic to those plights.

    I apologize for how harsh my post came across in terms of these issues and realize I need to clarify how I intended to apply it – the question was specifically in regards to Birthers who are mentally ill.

    So, I was focused on whether I thought certain Birther actions should be given a “pass” because that person suffers from a clinical illness. I also immediately thought of the potential dangers and harm that extremely mentally unstable folks with issues of paranoia are capable of.

    So, my response was meant to be specifically in judging the words and deeds of mentally unstable people within the context of it manifesting in Birtherism. To that, my post specifically applies and lays out my reasoning of why I am not going to give any Birther a “sympathetic pass” for their words or actions, due to mental illness. I still hold that I feel they deserve to be held to account and I have no qualms on mocking crazy talk or pointing out that it is crazy.

    I sincerely and deeply appreciate the points you have brought up and I apologize for not doing a better job of clearly restricting the context and boundaries in my original statement.

    US Citizen: 2. G. Sir. While I’m no expert in mental illness, I certainly can say from personal experience that “care providers” and help in the US is nothing as you imagine it to be. If one becomes injured or ill, they often become depressed.
    Their work suffers and they go broke.
    The last place they can afford to go is a doctor or hospital, especially with no insurance.
    It’s a huge assumption that one can just call 911, go to an emergency room or be committed to long term care.
    In reality, our system is quite broken and such help is not available.
    Not everyone has friends, family, money or insurance.
    Without those, a mentally ill person is alone.
    For example, let’s say someone threatens to commit suicide.
    Out comes the police and perhaps they take them away for a 3 day hold.
    After that, if no charges are pressing, they release them…. more depressed and more broke than before.
    They either make the problem worse or convince the patient not to seek future help.
    They don’t actually help.
    They go the minimal motions of what the law dictates.
    The fact of the matter is that mental illness is very complex and very complex things often require considerable resources and time to combat.
    The US and many other countries simply don’t have those resources.
    It’s a myth that one battling depression, mental illness or chronic pain can get help easily, especially if money is an issue.
    There are countless posts on forums that back this up repeatedly.
    I’ve seen people in emergency rooms bleeding for 12 hrs with zero help from anyone working there.
    Mind you, this usually only happens to adults.
    Children tend to get immediate help everywhere, but as they get older, help becomes less and less available.
    It’s an extension of the common “save babies; punish adults” beliefs that many so-called “Christians” espouse.
    But funny enough, it doesn’t extend to adoption of children or forgiveness of adults.
    Lots of hypocrisy in these waters, but that’s the way it is.
    It would be great if someone… even Jared Loughner… could call somewhere and get actual help before they flip out, but in reality those places truly don’t exist.
    Convincing many people of this fact is very difficult as they’ve harbored the assumption for a very long time that help is available to anyone sick.
    It’s a very slippery slope- one could argue that anyone who takes a gun and kills people is insane, but also that insanity shouldn’t be punished.
    I think Jared should be locked away where he can do no harm, but the fact is that place is a prison, not a hospital.
    So we’re left with three possible places an ill person can be.
    At home (or homeless), a hospital or prison.
    None of them are where help is truly available for most mentally ill people.
    This is the truth… unless you happen to be rich.
    In that case, there are countless places that will be happy to take your money.
    But we’re talking *thousands* of dollars a DAY.
    When drugs and guns cost less than medical help, painful outcomes will continue to repeat.

  61. avatar
    larry bostick February 24, 2012 at 6:54 pm #

    Why would a person running for the most powerful position in the world spend soooo much money hiding his past ? I do not understand why Americans have let him get away with this!

  62. avatar
    Scientist February 24, 2012 at 7:01 pm #

    larry bostick: Why would a person running for the most powerful position in the world spend soooo much money hiding his past ?

    I agree. What kind of shady dealings was he up to at Bain? Was he really trying to convert people ito Mormonism in France? If so, he failed miserably-the French drink alcohol with every meal except breakfast, drink very strong coffee and smoke. And they have mistresses, but only 1 wife.

  63. avatar
    Obsolete February 24, 2012 at 7:09 pm #

    larry bostick:
    Why would a person running for the most powerful position in the world spend soooo much money hiding his past ?I do not understand why Americans have let him get away with this!

    I know! Romney STILL hasn’t released his birth certificate and this is the second time he is running for President. All that money he has, and he can’t spend $12 for a certified copy like Obama did????

  64. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 24, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

    I do not delight in the suffering of the wicked.

    Kenneth Olsen: Shouldn’t those presenting themselves as scientific, interested in the study of fringe theories and behavior, be utterly delighted by the vitality of their favored specimens?

  65. avatar
    jayHG February 24, 2012 at 7:20 pm #

    G: Video of the IN smackdown of Orly is now available, via Fogbow:http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=6950&start=575#p348108

    WOW…….so far, the smackdown of all birther smackdowns!! Actually, to be honest, all they did was make Orly either bring proof of something or move on. They did not allow her to go off on various and sundry tangents forever, and when she tried to use that “you’re in on it” stuff, she was torn a new one by the chairman.

    All in all, not a good day for birthers……….but a VERY GOOD DAY for making them put up or shut up!

  66. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 24, 2012 at 7:28 pm #

    US Citizen: Joe. He’s an attention-whore. Simple as that.

    True.

    US Citizen: A small town sheriff who enjoys any national interest he can get.

    Were that only true it would be easier to ignore him. Maricopa County has 3.8 million residents. Biggest in Arizona; fourth largest county in the country and bigger than 23 states. (Thank you Wikipedia)

  67. avatar
    Keith February 24, 2012 at 7:39 pm #

    Matt: Index data. Unlike requests for vital records (such as a copy of a birth certificate), this does not seem to be limited to 75 years or older, or limited to people working on geneology projects.

    I think this is what Sheriff Joe was after (and probably obtained). If Obama’s name is listed in the index, he was born in Hawaii. If it isn’t, he wasn’t.

    Its been published years ago. Sheriff Joe isn’t needed to ‘drag’ that out of Hawai’i.

    Hawai’i DoH FAQ

  68. avatar
    y_p_w February 24, 2012 at 8:39 pm #

    CarlOrcas: True.Were that only true it would be easier to ignore him. Maricopa County has 3.8 million residents. Biggest in Arizona; fourth largest county in the country and bigger than 23 states. (Thank you Wikipedia)

    Doesn’t he have a habit of conducting law enforcement activities in cities that would normally be handled by city police, without informing anyone. He’s mostly taken to conducting immigration raids. He doesn’t even seem to pretend that he’s trying to get along with other law enforcement agencies.

    Other than the jails, civil actions, and policing unincorporated areas, there typically isn’t that much that a sheriff’s department is supposed to do unless they start stepping on some toes.

  69. avatar
    US Citizen February 24, 2012 at 8:47 pm #

    Thanks for your reply, G.
    I appreciate it very much.

    Carl… I had no idea that county was that large.
    My mistake. (by a magnitude!)

  70. avatar
    G February 24, 2012 at 8:58 pm #

    You are very welcome. But really, the bigger thanks remains with you. That was a wonderfully detailed presentation of the systemic problems and needs of those with mental illnesses.

    Everything you presented is a much, much more important and critical topic to humanity than anything that the Birthers do.

    Again, thank you for reminding me of the bigger picture.

    US Citizen: Thanks for your reply, G.
    I appreciate it very much.

  71. avatar
    GMpilot February 24, 2012 at 9:07 pm #

    Just listened to the audio. That was DELICIOUS.
    Thanks, folks!

  72. avatar
    Lupin February 25, 2012 at 4:01 am #

    Scientist: Was he really trying to convert people ito Mormonism in France? If so, he failed miserably-the French drink alcohol with every meal except breakfast, drink very strong coffee and smoke. And they have mistresses, but only 1 wife.

    And you’ve barely scratched the surface there, boyo. 🙂

  73. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 25, 2012 at 10:01 am #

    y_p_w:

    I’ve tried twice to respond to your questions about the sheriff and each time the message disappears so I’ll try it this way:

    Yes, Arapaio does have a “habit” of staging raids wherever he likes but always where there are news cameras.

    And his department is responsible for quite a few large populated areas outside cities. Sun City is probably the biggest. My guess is it’s the second largest department in Maricopa County after Phoenix.

  74. avatar
    larry bostick February 25, 2012 at 10:21 am #

    It is very amusing how some people don’t want to answer the big question.His birth records have been proven manipulated.I think most people understand that there is something wrong , but for some reason they have told themselves it can’t be true.Don’t believe what I say,have the balls to do your own reasearch.The American Presidency has been for sale since Bush and the best they come up with is Obama ?What was it they gave him the Nobel peace prize for again ? It is very simple, if there is nothing to hide, why not show it all ?

  75. avatar
    richCares February 25, 2012 at 10:32 am #

    “His birth records have been proven manipulated.I”
    sure, and he was one day old when he did it, such great powers. Does your familiy laugh at you?

  76. avatar
    RuhRoh February 25, 2012 at 10:33 am #

    larry bostick: It is very amusing how some people don’t want to answer the big question.His birth records have been proven manipulated.

    No, they have not been “proven” to be manipulated.

  77. avatar
    Arthur February 25, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    Hi Larry:

    When you write:

    larry bostick: It is very simple, if there is nothing to hide, why not show it all ?

    what exactly do you mean by “it”?

  78. avatar
    larry bostick February 25, 2012 at 10:49 am #

    Ah yes , Obama’s records have been proven manipulated by several experts.Does it not raise questions about who this man is when he spends millions of dollars on hiding his past ? I am not looking for a pissing match. Iam just saying that for the leader of your country to hide his past and spend millions doing it . I would think that alone would raise a few questions ? Hey, if you are happy with that, enjoy.

  79. avatar
    Arthur February 25, 2012 at 10:53 am #

    Welcome to Dr. C.’s blog, Larry. When you write,

    larry bostick: Ah yes , Obama’s records have been proven manipulated by several experts.

    who are the experts to which you refer?

  80. avatar
    RuhRoh February 25, 2012 at 10:58 am #

    larry bostick: Ah yes , Obama’s records have been proven manipulated by several experts.Does it not raise questions about who this man is when he spends millions of dollars on hiding his past ? I am not looking for a pissing match. Iam just saying that for the leader of your country to hide his past and spend millions doing it . I would think that alone would raise a few questions ? Hey, if you are happy with that, enjoy.

    No, he has not “spent millions of dollars hiding his past”. If you have some proof to support your assertion that he has, please provide it.

    When you claim that “Obama’s records have been proven manipulated by several experts”, what records do you claim were manipulated and who are these “experts”?

  81. avatar
    Kenneth Olsen February 25, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    Is it remotely possible that the graphics professionals that have analyzed the pdf “birth certificate” are, in fact, experts who have arrived at a wrong conclusion?

    Is it remotely possible that Dr. Con and his ilk dismiss real experts as “cranks” because Dr. Con and his ilk are emotionally invested in their own illusions?

  82. avatar
    richCares February 25, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    Kenneth Olsen, here is an expert, a conservative republican, that demolishes those you thought were experts
    http://www.obamabirthbook.com/

  83. avatar
    Arthur February 25, 2012 at 11:34 am #

    Kenneth Olsen: Is it remotely possible that Dr. Con and his ilk dismiss real experts as “cranks” because Dr. Con and his ilk are emotionally invested in their own illusions?

    Sure it’s possible. The same is true of Orly Taits, Dean Haskins, and you. Ultimately, no one on this blog, Obot or birther, has any real say in the matter. The issue of determining who is an expert and of establishing what evidence is credible is a matter for the courts, and they have chosen to trust the authenticity of birth records from the State of Hawaii, while rejecting the testimony of birthers.

  84. avatar
    larry bostick February 25, 2012 at 11:41 am #

    kinda liike 911, so many unanswerd questions,and so many people believing what they are told. Most politicians are pretty self serving.Well at least he kissed ya before he screwed ya ,so slick.What was that present that Obama gave you on New Years day , Oh yeah NDAA.That alone deserves the Nobel prize.The point being that Obama is bought and paid for by the money behind him.Don’t look at the man behind the curtain,you might find the truth !

  85. avatar
    RuhRoh February 25, 2012 at 11:46 am #

    larry bostick: kinda liike 911, so many unanswerd questions,and so many people believing what they are told. Most politicians are pretty self serving.Well at least he kissed ya before he screwed ya ,so slick.What was that present that Obama gave you on New Years day , Oh yeah NDAA.That alone deserves the Nobel prize.The point being that Obama is bought and paid for by the money behind him.Don’t look at the man behind the curtain,you might find the truth !

    Let me guess: you also believe in the NWO, the moon landing was faked, LHO didn’t kill Kennedy, etc., etc., etc.

  86. avatar
    Paper February 25, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    No. Despite Arthur’s genuflection to the idea that anything is possible, it isn’t.

    Here’s why. You cannot forge your own signature.

    If you haven’t seen it, on another thread I offer to provide a home-printed certificate to anyone who sends me a check with their own forged signature signed in their own hand.

    Please prove me wrong, that I am invested in my own illusion.

    Hawaii cannot forge its own documents. It printed them, it affirms them, it provides an official link to the PDF in question. On top of all that, the Constitution requires us to give full faith and credit to Hawaii’s documents.

    I have no authority in this matter, but those who do have authority see this reality well enough without my help.

    Kenneth Olsen:
    Is it remotely possible that the graphics professionals that have analyzed the pdf “birth certificate” are, in fact, experts who have arrived at a wrong conclusion?

    Is it remotely possible that Dr. Con and his ilk dismiss real experts as “cranks” because Dr. Con and his ilk are emotionally invested in their own illusions?

  87. avatar
    Arthur February 25, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    Hi Larry,

    Hey, could you do us a favor? If all you want to do around here is monologue (a lot birthers are into that, so don’t be embarrassed) could you put an “M” at the beginning of your posts so that we know you’re just talking to yourself? That way, no one will disturb you and you can maintain that feeling of invinciblity. Just blink if you understand. Thanks! .

  88. avatar
    Arthur February 25, 2012 at 11:51 am #

    Paper: Despite Arthur’s genuflection to the idea that anything is possible, it isn’t.

    Hey! I’m not even Catholic!

  89. avatar
    Stanislaw February 25, 2012 at 11:52 am #

    larry bostick:
    kinda liike 911, so many unanswerd questions,and so many people believing what they are told.

    I agree. Birthers keep believing what they’re told by Orly Taitz and Gary Kreep and what they read at WND and Freerepublic despite the fact that nearly everything from those sources is wrong. I too have unanswered questions as to why birthers refuse to accept reality. Maybe one day my questions will be answered.

  90. avatar
    larry bostick February 25, 2012 at 11:53 am #

    No Ruhroh, I belive in the Ndaa and so will you

  91. avatar
    RuhRoh February 25, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

    larry bostick: No Ruhroh, I belive in the Ndaa and so will you

    So you only subscribe to 3 conspiracy theories. Rather restrained for a Birther. 😉

  92. avatar
    Arthur February 25, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

    larry bostick: No Ruhroh, I belive in the Ndaa and so will you

    It speaks!

  93. avatar
    Kenneth Olsen February 25, 2012 at 12:18 pm #

    Do scientists place value in consistent experiments yielding consistent results?

    Is it plausible to assume that whoever posted the pdf birth certificate used standardized hardware, software, and methods to scan and optimize?

    Is it unusual that those who attempt to reproduce the pdf using standardized hardware, software, and methods have failed to achieve a remotely similar file?

    Is it unusual that a fearless leader only bestows a facsimile of a banal document upon his loyal followers and opposition, while treating the original document like a religious relic that no mortal eyes may be allowed to gaze upon?

  94. avatar
    Northland10 February 25, 2012 at 12:23 pm #

    Arthur:
    Hi Larry:

    When you write:

    larry bostick: It is very simple, if there is nothing to hide, why not show it all ?

    what exactly do you mean by “it”?

    http://youtu.be/EYlDbv7MqE8

  95. avatar
    Paper February 25, 2012 at 12:50 pm #

    Scientists also don’t proceed from false premises. Such as “those who attempt to reproduce the pdf using standardized hardware, software, and methods have failed to achieve a remotely similar file.” Which is false. Also, mortal eyes have seen his birth certificates (both long and short), and mortal hands even have touched them.

    After stripping the attitude out of your last question and translating it into a straight question: no it is not unusual. What is unusual is that the President has provided so much. How many presidents have shown and posted their birth certificates? How many people did John McCain show his too? How many current Republican presidential candidates have shown their birth certificates?

    Kenneth Olsen:
    Do scientists place value in consistent experiments yielding consistent results?

    Is it plausible to assume that whoever posted the pdf birth certificate used standardized hardware, software, and methods to scan and optimize?

    Is it unusual that those who attempt to reproduce the pdf using standardized hardware, software, and methods have failed to achieve a remotely similar file?

    Is it unusual that a fearless leader only bestows a facsimile of a banal document upon his loyal followers and opposition, while treating the original document like a religious relic that no mortal eyes may be allowed to gaze upon?

  96. avatar
    Northland10 February 25, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

    larry bostick: It is very amusing how some people don’t want to answer the big question.His birth records have been proven manipulated.I think most people understand that there is something wrong , but

    Given the odd usage of the space bar, it appears your keyboard is having issues (or you are trying to type with 2 middle fingers only). I will try to help your fix your statement:

    The birthers have been manipulated. I think most people understand that there is something wrong with them, but…

    Better?

  97. avatar
    John Reilly February 25, 2012 at 1:06 pm #

    Mr. Bostwick:

    The State of Hawaii says President Obama was born there. That is how we make those decisions in our society. If you have some proof otherwise, it is for sure time to come forward. Stop complaining about what the State of Hawaii said. Time to put up or shut up. Actual evidence. Something that could actually be admitted into evidence in court. Something that might actually persuade 1 judge, 1 representative or 1 Senator.

    So far you are batting 0 for 100. If you keep complaining about PDFs and layers, and relying on “experts” who have never qualified in any court to testify in that field, you will be at 0 for 200, and, as Misha observes, trying to figure out how to keep Cory Booker from being elected.

    So how about it Mr. Bostwick. What actually evidence do you have?

  98. avatar
    Northland10 February 25, 2012 at 1:11 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen: Is it plausible to assume that whoever posted the pdf birth certificate used standardized hardware, software, and methods to scan and optimize?

    Is it unusual that those who attempt to reproduce the pdf using standardized hardware, software, and methods have failed to achieve a remotely similar file?

    It is even more plausible to assume that his staff used Mac OS 10.6.7 Quartz PDFContext to create the PDF, saved in PDF version 1.3 (Acrobat 4.x). I know this, along with many others, because we looked at the actual document properties (i.e. file –> Properties).

    Is it unusual that all of these attempts at proving fraud have not bothered to reproduce or, as best as I have seen, not even bothered to mention how it was created?

    It is boneheaded mistakes like this that cause many to ridicule their attempts at “evidence.”

  99. avatar
    Kenneth Olsen February 25, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    Northland and file properties to the rescue!

    Mac OS is standardized technology, Acrobat 4.x is standardized technology, and I think it’s fair to take a leap of faith that the computer and scanner used were standardized and readily available technology.

    Graphics experts have claimed they’ve scanned multiple documents, including printed copies of the pdf, using a wide variety of compression and optimization settings, and have been unable to reproduce a similarly articulated file.

    Shouldn’t any scientist with intellectual integrity consider that unusual?

    Shouldn’t any scientist with intellectual integrity demonstrate how easy it is to reproduce the file, instead of derisively referring to other experts as “cranks”?

    The questions do seem to multiply!

  100. avatar
    richCares February 25, 2012 at 1:38 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen says “Shouldn’t any scientist with intellectual integrity consider that unusual?”
    .
    Why, those who saw the original have no problems with it plus State of Hawaii says it is OK. Have you checked John Woodman’s articles, he is a conservative Republican and he blows away your experts. This issue is over, no need for scientists.

  101. avatar
    Paper February 25, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

    Such so-called experts are either incompetent or lying.

    And it has already been demonstrated multiple times how easy it is too reproduce.

    Scientists dismiss people who keep claiming the earth is flat and who keep asking why no one has traveled around the world.

    Kenneth Olsen:

    Graphics experts have claimed they’ve scanned multiple documents, including printed copies of the pdf, using a wide variety of compression and optimization settings, and have been unable to reproduce a similarly articulated file.

    Shouldn’t any scientist with intellectual integrity consider that unusual?

    Shouldn’t any scientist with intellectual integrity demonstrate how easy it is to reproduce the file, instead of derisively referring to other experts as “cranks”

  102. avatar
    Arthur February 25, 2012 at 1:51 pm #

    Northland10: http://youtu.be/EYlDbv7MqE8

    Thanks for the link, Northland; no wonder Larry didn’t want to discuss “it.”

  103. avatar
    richCares February 25, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

    Scientists dismiss people who keep claiming the earth is flat and who keep asking why no one has traveled around the world.
    .
    Hey PAPER, on a recent flight to Honolulu the guy sitting next to me offered proof the earth is flat “See my drink is perfectly level, if the earth was curved there would be a tilt showing in the glass”, luckily there were extra seats on the flight so I could move away. There appears to be no significant difference between a birther and a flat earther or a flat earther and Kenneth Olsen.

  104. avatar
    Northland10 February 25, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen: Graphics experts have claimed they’ve scanned multiple documents, including printed copies of the pdf, using a wide variety of compression and optimization settings, and have been unable to reproduce a similarly articulated file.

    Yet, not once, have they scanned a sample, or claimed to, with a Macintosh using Quartz PDFContext and saved it in Acrobat 4.x (as opposed to other newer versions). They keep mentioning Illustrator and Photoshop without showing, even if manipulated, that the BC could not be saved the way it was using the exact same equipment. They do not even mention that actual software used. Vogt mentioned a Macintosh but then said it was with something called “Preview.” Though, to the end user, Mac may call it “Preview,” any experienced user would know to check the actual document properties.

    And you think these folks are experts?

  105. avatar
    Northland10 February 25, 2012 at 3:10 pm #

    Kenneth Olsen: I think it’s fair to take a leap of faith that the computer and scanner used were standardized and readily available technology.

    I should add, if one is trying to prove a specific point, such as manipulation in a document, generalized statements about “standardized” equipment is not sufficient. They are trying to prove specifics with generalities. The devil is in the details and they missed a doozy of a detail

    A scientist, and any research, would want to recreate the process to an exacting detail and not just reproduce the results.

  106. avatar
    G February 25, 2012 at 4:13 pm #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

    larry bostick: No Ruhroh, I belive in the Ndaa and so will you

  107. avatar
    G February 25, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    😉

    John Reilly: you will be at 0 for 200, and, as Misha observes, trying to figure out how to keep Cory Booker from being elected.

  108. avatar
    Paper February 26, 2012 at 2:38 am #

    100 proof, no doubt.

    richCares: Hey PAPER, on a recent flight to Honolulu the guy sitting next to me offered proof the earth is flat “See my drink is perfectly level, if the earth was curved there would be a tilt showing in the glass”,

  109. avatar
    Sef February 26, 2012 at 8:27 am #

    richCares: Hey PAPER, on a recent flight to Honolulu the guy sitting next to me offered proof the earth is flat “See my drink is perfectly level, if the earth was curved there would be a tilt showing in the glass”,

    Apparently, he has never taken off with a half-full glass of champagne firmly held to the tray table in the down position. (and, yes, at one time it was possible to do this in first class.)

  110. avatar
    Paper February 26, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    Sef, you see how it is? Here I sit with a cup of coffee on my flat kitchen table thinking to myself that the coffee level being even means, must mean that the earth is round, because it is obviously an Old World Order conspiracy to trick me into thinking the world is flat! But people call me crazy; they say read that best seller called The World is Flat by Corsi’s colleague, Thomas Friedman.

    I’ve been thinking of issuing a subpoena or two and really grilling those so-called experts. I did actually circumnavigate the whole planet myself already, but I’m told that is just hearsay. I can’t swear, after all, that I didn’t briefly fall asleep on one or two flights. This is why we need conspiracy theories to tell us what is true!

    But I may have to reconsider this approach of deciding reality based on conspiracy theory. I have so much trouble deciding which conspiracy is the real conspiracy.

  111. avatar
    misha February 26, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    larry bostick: His birth records have been proven manipulated.

    John Reilly: as Misha observes, trying to figure out how to keep Cory Booker from being elected.
    So how about it Mr. Bostwick. What actually evidence do you have?

    I have said this constantly: Linda Lingle is Jewish. She felt McCain/Palin would be better for Israel, than Obama. If she could have found anything, the GOP would have used it with glee.

    With Booker, it will be ‘he was born in the District. DC is not a state.’ Then it will be pointed out that Al Gore was born in DC. Then the answer will be, ‘yeah, but he was a Marine.’

  112. avatar
    Sef February 27, 2012 at 6:32 pm #

    ASK Esq:
    I’m sure this will be a meaningful press conference. After all, Sheriff Joe told us that he doesn’t hold press conferences just to get on TV.

    He also doesn’t breathe just to get oxygen or eat just to get nourishment.

    I’m sure he knows how to treat Orly’s “offerings” after Ms. Riordan in IN pointed out their value in a court.

  113. avatar
    richCares March 1, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    Sheriff Joe’s evidence consisted of everything John Woodman debunked.