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Alabama: The Arpaio effect

AL_Supreme_CourtSome publicity has surrounded the attempt of Orly Taitz to inject the Arizona Cold Case Posse report on Obama’s birth certificate into her case in Mississippi. However, an earlier and possibly more interesting tack has been taken in Alabama in the case of McInnish v. Chapman (Alabama Secretary of State).

I’m not a lawyer, and I won’t comment on the validity of any of the ideas presented by Mr. Hugh McInnish, through his attorney, L. Dean Johnson of Huntsville, beyond saying that his case is doomed.

This case is unusual in that it starts at the Alabama Supreme Court, who, claims McInnish, has original jurisdiction to hear his petition for Writ of Mandamus  and to require that Secretary of State Chapman bar Barack Obama from the ballot in Alabama. It would seem that the case starts off on shaky ground since the Alabama Supreme Court previously ruled in the 2010 case of Rice v. Chapman that there is no law under which the Secretary of State can remove anyone. McInnish cites the authority of a 1945 edition of Webster’s Dictionary  to argue that placing and removing names from a ballot is not part of the “conduct” of an election.

We have seen a number of cases (e.g. Keyes v. Bowen) where the courts have said that a Secretary of State has no duty to remove an eligible candidate, even if they have the power to do so. Here is where Sheriff Joe comes into the equation. An Alabama Attorney General opinion from 1998 reads:

The Secretary of State does not have an obligation to evaluate all of the qualifications of the nominees of political parties and independent candidates for state offices prior to certifying such nominees and candidates to the probate judges pursuant to sections 17-7-1 and 17-16-40 of the Code of Alabama. If the Secretary of State has knowledge gained from an official source arising from the performance of duties prescribed by law, that a candidate has not met a certifying qualification, the Secretary of State should not certify the candidate. Ala. Att’y Gen. Op. No. 98-0020 (August 12, 1998)

The direct application of this opinion is troublesome for a number of reasons, including the fact that Arpaio’s Cold Case Posse really reached no opinion that President Obama was ineligible. Nonetheless Mr. McInnish goes “full Arpaio” in the balance of his petition.

The 77-year-old Huntsville native has degrees in mathematics and engineering, and describes himself as adept at finding information on the Internet and separating the “wheat from the chaff” of this source. He presents the court with a 39-page White Paper arguing that Obama is guilty of forgery under Alabama law and because his birth certificate is a forgery, he should not be on the Alabama ballot.

In reviewing the White Paper, it becomes clear that Mr. McInnish lacks the ability to separate wheat from chaff, as in this early error:

During the 2008 presidential campaign demands were made to see the birth certificate of John McCain, which he promptly produced.

This is something McCain never released although one reporter said he saw it. Almost immediately McInnish launches into a discussion of Jerome Corsi’s book, Where’s the Birth Certificate? From there I suppose the misinformation flows from Corsi, for example in reference to a Hawaiian standard birth certificate:

Such a document cannot be used to get a passport or a driver’s license. Nor can it be used to enroll a child in school.

Of course Corsi’s book was pre-long form birth certificate, so the White Paper adopts the analysis of Paul Irey and Douglas Vogt to attack the long form. A separate report from Mara Zebest is included. I won’t continue with the same-old same-old birther stuff that we’ve already discussed elsewhere. You get the drift and can if desired review all of the documents in this case in the Jack Ryan collection for it on Scribd.

McInnish says:

But equity demands that for every wrong there be a remedy.

The birthers are wrong. What is my remedy?

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228 Responses to Alabama: The Arpaio effect

  1. avatar
    J. Potter March 15, 2012 at 11:36 pm #

    “McInnish cites the authority of a 1945 edition of Webster’s Dictionary”

    ! ! !

    Words fail me.

    Almost!

    I have on my floor, because it’s too big for any shelf and make a great stepping stool, a copy of Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary of the English Language … copyright 1950!!!

    *BOOM!* That’s right, Birthers, read it and weep! My authority kicks his authority’s be-hinny-hinny-ho by fiiiiiive fuuuullllll yeeears!

    Years, beee-yotches!

    Obots win, birthers lose, and Obama rulz fo-evah!

    😈 All your elections are belong to us! 😈

  2. avatar
    Xyxox March 15, 2012 at 11:37 pm #

    Heck, I have a stamped and certified copy of my long form birth certificate from when I was born. DHS would not accept that when I applied for a passport because “these original forms from that long ago are easy to forge”. I had to get a COLB from the state of my birth in order to get a passport!

  3. avatar
    Northland10 March 15, 2012 at 11:44 pm #

    Xyxox: DHS would not accept that when I applied for a passport because “these original forms from that long ago are easy to forge”. I had to get a COLB from the state of my birth in order to get a passport!

    I am rather certain that, if I were to need to use a BC right now, I would have to get the modern version over my old “long form.”

    The certified copy is printed on special paper containing many security features. Included are a unique pantographic background, microprinting, visible fibers, invisible fibers, true watermarks, artificial watermarks, thermocratic ink and a die embossed raised seal. We caution that you should not accept the copy if the three heat sensitive images on the back do not disappear when rubbed or pressed and if you cannot verify the presence of the watermarks in the paper by holding the paper to light.

    A certified copy of a birth record issued by the State Vital Records Office will contain three distinctive identifying numbers:

    (1) The state file number that identifies the record of this birth.
    (2) The AFS number that identifies the requestor of this copy.
    (3) The security paper number in red bleed through ink that identifies this copy.

    Do not accept the copy if all three numbers are not on that copy.

    In short, my birther holy grail birth certificate, is no longer appropriate for use a birth certificate but, what is appropriate is the Michigan “short form.”

  4. avatar
    J. Potter March 16, 2012 at 12:03 am #

    It is ironic that birthers are obsessing over obsolescence. And then arguing over that obsolescence to authorites that are resistant to accepting that obsolescence anyway!

    I have a 1994 Packard Bell for sale …. P60 … 8Mb RAM … CD-ROM drive!

    What do you mean it’s not analogous? 😉

  5. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 12:44 am #

    I had a vital records supervisor in Indiana tell me (and I don’t swear this is the exact number) there were 34 security features in their paper. She showed me some, but told me that she showed me the rest she would have to kill me.

    Northland10: The certified copy is printed on special paper containing many security features. Included are a unique pantographic background, microprinting, visible fibers, invisible fibers, true watermarks, artificial watermarks

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 12:46 am #

    Sorry, you should have read the original material. He has another dictionary.

    J. Potter: I have on my floor, because it’s too big for any shelf and make a great stepping stool, a copy of Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary of the English Language … copyright 1950!!!

  7. avatar
    J. Potter March 16, 2012 at 12:53 am #

    Yes, it was a little much wasn’t it. Everyone knows the 1945 is the definitive year. Language has been degrading ever since. Try as I might, I just can’t birth right.

    Heh.

  8. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 1:32 am #

    Any damn fool which would allow a known criminal on ANY ballot should be locked up! And, not for just criminal actions, but for his/her sheer stupidity, also!

    It is no longer necessary to argue obamas’ birth certificate, it is a fraud. If you still need to prove that to yourself, or others, or just check Arapios’ findings, here is the place:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    You will find links to all the necessary materials and a brief description on how to use them, with links to show you how to do the forensics … now you can KNOW!

  9. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 2:04 am #

    Winston Court:
    Any damn fool which would allow a known criminal on ANY ballot should be locked up!And, not for just criminal actions, but for his/her sheer stupidity, also!

    It is no longer necessary to argue obamas’ birth certificate, it is a fraud.If you still need to prove that to yourself, or others, or just check Arapios’ findings, here is the place:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    You will find links to all the necessary materials and a brief description on how to use them, with links to show you how to do the forensics … now you can KNOW!

    Laughable page of regurgitation of repeatedly disproven quack theories and made up “facts”.

    100+ court cases lost so far. Keep trying 🙂

  10. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 2:16 am #

    Winston Court: here is the place

    You may have accidentally included the wrong link — all I saw on this page was a discussion of a PDF file, and birth certificates aren’t PDF files.

  11. avatar
    Obsolete March 16, 2012 at 2:21 am #

    Winston Court:
    Any damn fool which would allow a known criminal on ANY ballot should be locked up!And, not for just criminal actions, but for his/her sheer stupidity, also!

    It is no longer necessary to argue obamas’ birth certificate, it is a fraud.If you still need to prove that to yourself, or others, or just check Arapios’ findings, here is the place:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    You will find links to all the necessary materials and a brief description on how to use them, with links to show you how to do the forensics … now you can KNOW!

    Wake me when Sheriff Joe files real criminal charges. Until then, he is just another grifter selling a book using debunked crap.

  12. avatar
    Rickey March 16, 2012 at 2:32 am #

    Xyxox:
    Heck, I have a stamped and certified copy of my long form birth certificate from when I was born. DHS would not accept that when I applied for a passport because “these original forms from that long ago are easy to forge”. I had to get a COLB from the state of my birth in order to get a passport!

    My original short form BC, issued a week after I was born, would not be acceptable today because it is signed but there is no seal. It also has a water stain which makes the registrar’s signature unreadable.

  13. avatar
    Joe Acerbic March 16, 2012 at 2:33 am #

    justlw: You may have accidentally included the wrong link — all I saw on this page was a discussion of a PDF file, and birth certificates aren’t PDF files.

    It wasn’t a rickroll…?

  14. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 2:46 am #

    Joe Acerbic: It wasn’t a rickroll…?

    Now that you mention it, I did hear the faint strains of the birther anthem, “Never Gonna Give It Up”

  15. avatar
    The Magic M March 16, 2012 at 5:05 am #

    > McInnish cites the authority of a 1945 edition of Webster’s Dictionary

    This reminds me a bit of, whowasit, Apuzzo or Donofrio, who kept milking dictionaries for alternative meanings (such as “abstract” meaning “a fabrication” as in “something made up”, or “hostile” meaning “having a different opinion” or whatnot).

    Trying to redefine words, of have obscure meanings be the standard meaning, seems to be the latest desperation in Birtherstan.
    Just like “born in a hospital” is suddenly supposed to mean “not born in a hospital” or “voluntarily surrendered” means “involuntariy surrendered” or “‘mismatch’ not checked” means “mismatch”, or “not unanimous decision” means “no precedent” etc.

    It’s quite comforting to see they’re so deep in the rabbit hole by now that they have to rebuild the whole effing *language* to make it say what they want it to say.
    (Then again, understanding basic English has never been their strongest suit. Even I, not being a native speaker, though rumoured to have a talent for languages, blow them out of the water any day of the week.)

  16. avatar
    bovril March 16, 2012 at 7:53 am #

    Oh Winston you poor delusional fool……

    Your definition of “forensics” is alas, how can we best describe it…childishly lacking.

    Even IF the image of the original posted on line was legally probabtive, ACTUAL data forensics woud include all or more of the following.

    http://www.thefogbow.com/arpaio-report/document-forensics/

    Not ONE of these steps has been demonstrated as having been undertaken by the Cold Custard Pussies.

    Lets be honest (if you posibly can) the CCP and Arpaio describing an individual whose sole “qualifications” to perform a legaly sufficient forensic analysis is that she was a minor contributer to a couple of out of print books on Adobe PhotoShop over 10 years ago as, “World class expertS” shows the paucity of your arguments.

    Lets not forget, the VERY VERY FIRST task that a REAL expert in physical or digital data forensics would perform before starting an analysis of an image of a physical document.

    Care to guess….

    Well, the very first thing is you call the custodian or issuer of the ORIGINAL paper copy and ask them if they issued such a thing, what format it should tke and any content they can share.

    So did the CCP do that……well, that would be no…..

    FAIL….NEXT

  17. avatar
    J. Potter March 16, 2012 at 8:42 am #

    The Magic M: Trying to redefine words, of have obscure meanings be the standard meaning, seems to be the latest desperation in Birtherstan.

    When your understanding of logic, authority, documentation, etc., etc., is that of a child … no surprise the birthers are still operating on grade school rules.

    Can’t wait for McInnish to go dictionary-thumping in court.

    One thing does surprise me tho … no religious streak in birtherism? I haven’t come across anyone thumping a bible to make their anti-Obama case. Did I forget something? Miss something? I did just wake up.

  18. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 9:13 am #

    Winston Court: It is no longer necessary to argue obamas’ birth certificate, it is a fraud.

    Hi. I think you are on to something, and perhaps you could forward this to Sheriff Arpaio. I did some internet research, and found this this Kenya BC (Obama’s?), which may be what you are looking for.

    Thanks for visiting.

  19. avatar
    Norbrook March 16, 2012 at 9:21 am #

    I had an interesting experience last month, trying to get my aunt a photo ID. The “birth certificate” she had, which was the original transcript of birth registration (she’d been born at home) had been filled out by hand by the clerks at the time – back in the late 30’s. It’s not longer acceptable, so we had to go get her an official one, with all the nice security marks and seals.

  20. avatar
    donna March 16, 2012 at 9:38 am #

    just an fyi

    a while back, during another protracted argument with a birther, i phoned his state

    from them i learned that they no longer issue long forms for 2 reasons

    1) they did away with photo copy machines

    2) identity theft – there is TOO MUCH INFO on the long forms which can be used for identity theft

    i believe the state was wisconsin

  21. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 12:22 pm #

    Winston Court:
    Any damn fool which would allow a known criminal on ANY ballot should be locked up!And, not for just criminal actions, but for his/her sheer stupidity, also!

    It is no longer necessary to argue obamas’ birth certificate, it is a fraud.If you still need to prove that to yourself, or others, or just check Arapios’ findings, here is the place:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    You will find links to all the necessary materials and a brief description on how to use them, with links to show you how to do the forensics … now you can KNOW!

    Yeah, pretty amazing how many crooks there are, even in the courts!

    But, still doesn’t change the proof, the proof is real. Prove it to yourself … a congressional investigation, followed by the removal and prosecution of obama, then a long term in prison, for obama, will fix all of his crimes … but there are plenty more needing the same …

  22. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 12:27 pm #

    misha: Hi. I think you are on to something, and perhaps you could forward this to Sheriff Arpaio. I did some internet research, and found this this Kenya BC (Obama’s?), which may be what you are looking for.

    Thanks for visiting.

    Like I said, there is no point, other than complete liars, to keep saying that obamas birth certificate is not a COMPLETE FRAUD …

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    You offer your opinions and lies … the truth can be seen by all … you must not have the skills to be about to use the tools and see that this proves there is NO argument, simply an OBAMACRIME … but you make the fatal mistake of thinking all others, that ignorant … it is not the ignorant who are of importance here, they have already lost.

  23. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 12:30 pm #

    justlw: You may have accidentally included the wrong link — all I saw on this page was a discussion of a PDF file, and birth certificates aren’t PDF files.

    I am not claiming the .PDF is a birth certificate, and I know it is a crime … OBAMA IS SAYING THE .PDF IS AN ACCURATE SCAN OF HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE, AND CLAIMING IT AS HIS.

    If you don’t have the skills to understand how to use the tools, what the hell are you doing here and arguing anything???? This proves you don’t know what the hell you are talking about and can’t recognize the evidence/truth when it is laid right before you!

  24. avatar
    RuhRoh March 16, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

    Winston Court: but you make the fatal mistake of thinking all others, that ignorant … it is not the ignorant who are of importance here, they have already lost.

    Yes, you’ve lost in courts all over this great country 101 times and counting!

    Yet you still have a profound misunderstanding of who constitutes “the ignorant”. I’ll goive you a hint: go look into a mirror.

  25. avatar
    Rickey March 16, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

    Winston Court:
    Any damn fool which would allow a known criminal on ANY ballot should be locked up!And, not for just criminal actions, but for his/her sheer stupidity, also!

    Where in the Constitution does it say that a known criminal cannot appear on a ballot?

  26. avatar
    JPotter March 16, 2012 at 12:46 pm #

    Winston Court: If you don’t have the skills to understand how to use the tools, what the hell are you doing here and arguing anything???? This proves you don’t know what the hell you are talking about and can’t recognize the evidence/truth when it is laid right before you!

    Looking at the smoking ruin of yet another Fe Gauge … I am forced to admit I fudged when I said I stashed them all in Dimension X. However, with the daily implosions being set off around here, i will have to either surrender or dip into emergency supplies…..

    Thanks, Winston, for a hearty lunchtime laugh!

  27. avatar
    vic March 16, 2012 at 12:55 pm #

    My dear Winston – why are you directing us to a web site with Mexican registration? Isn’t the good ol’ U S of A good enough for you? Are you a foreigner trying to usurp the presidency of the certified by the state of Hawaii American, Barack Obama?

  28. avatar
    DP March 16, 2012 at 1:00 pm #

    Winston Court: I am not claiming the .PDF is a birth certificate, and I know it is a crime … OBAMA IS SAYING THE .PDF IS AN ACCURATE SCAN OF HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE, AND CLAIMING IT AS HIS.

    If you don’t have the skills to understand how to use the tools, what the hell are you doing here and arguing anything????This proves you don’t know what the hell you are talking about and can’t recognize the evidence/truth when it is laid right before you!

    The silly “evidence” you cite has been thoroughly debunked. No one but people lost in their own delusions takes it seriously. Even Sheriff Joe knows that, which is why he will never pursue this matter further, all your fantasies aside.

    There’s a reason nobody takes any of this nonsense seriously. But you can’t face either the truth of your own emotional needs that drive you to embrace this nonsense. So you inevitably raise lurid cries of corruption so broad as to be laughable on their face.

    Spew with self-righteous indignation all you want. It simply demonstrates that you are a fool.

  29. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 16, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

    Winston Court: … a congressional investigation, followed by the removal and prosecution of obama, then a long term in prison, for obama, will fix all of his crimes … but there are plenty more needing the same …

    And when none of that stuff happens, maybe you will, if you have a single honest bone in your body, realize that YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN DUPED.

    There is a real, authentic, valid BC on file for our President in Hawaii, and traitors like Joe “Pink Undies” Arpaio are dragging America through the mud, and lying to the weak-minded, for absolutely nothing.

  30. avatar
    Thrifty March 16, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

    So now being stupid is a crime too? No wonder the prisons are so overcrowded.

    Winston Court: Any damn fool which would allow a known criminal on ANY ballot should be locked up! And, not for just criminal actions, but for his/her sheer stupidity, also!

  31. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

    JPotter: Looking at the smoking ruin of yet another Fe Gauge … I am forced to admit I fudged when I said I stashed them all in Dimension X. However, with the daily implosions being set off around here, i will have to either surrender or dip into emergency supplies…..

    Thanks, Winston, for a hearty lunchtime laugh!

    That is fine and dandy, but all you have stated is, “YOU HAVE NOTHING!”

    Nothing but a bunch of jibberish, stupid sheet, and informing us you are laughing … interesting, but what makes you think anyone cares?

    But, we pity you, we have no choice. What you are simply showing is you have no technical skills in the use of forensic computer tools — examine the evidence and prove, to yourself, that this is a REAL CRIME. The evidence is as valid as any DNA, rifling marks on a bullet, blood tests, drug tests, fingerprints taken from a crime scene, or forensic evidence found on forged documents. We are talking about REAL EVIDENCE HERE — NOT YOUR OPINIONS, INNUENDO, GUESSES, FEELING, PSYCHIC VISIONS, OLD-WIVES-TALES, etc.

    However, experts have already examined these documents and found obamas birth certificate to be a complete fraud — really, all you have to muster up is the ability to read their reports and recognize the truth of evidence.

    All you are doing, is demonstrating your own powers of logic, your own education, your own capabilities in using simple forensic tools and have an ability in recognizing evidence. All you have done is prove you should not be allowed near any positions in business or gov. where an education and intelligence is needed … but fear not, there are a LOT of ignorant people in the world — you will not be alone.

    Now, I begin to fear, you don’t even realize that, what you are displaying is your intelligence, your reasoning powers, your education level … your words are more telling about yourself, than anything else — and, it is quite obvious, you are lacking, and on all levels!

  32. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 1:11 pm #

    Thomas Brown: And when none of that stuff happens, maybe you will, if you have a single honest bone in your body, realize that YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN DUPED.

    There is a real, authentic, valid BC on file for our President in Hawaii, and traitors like Joe “Pink Undies” Arpaio are dragging America through the mud, and lying to the weak-minded, for absolutely nothing.

    Yeah, it is hard to get criminals to examine the evidence of their own crimes, and admit to them.

    However, all you are noticing is this takes time. It took time to get an thorough investigation, and for a news conference to state obamas birth certificate is a COMPLETE FRAUD.

    Stay tuned … criminals never go to trial and prison willingly … the gears of justice turn slowly, but they are beginning to grind obama beneath them …

  33. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 16, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    Winston Court:…you don’t even realize that, what you are displaying is your intelligence, your reasoning powers, your education level … more telling about yourself, than anything else — and, it is quite obvious, you are lacking, and on all levels!

    Well, at least WE aren’t stupid enough to think you can prove a physical document is a forgery by looking at an electronic image of it! Try doing that in a court of law, and the booms of laughter would crack glass.

  34. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 1:16 pm #

    Now that the evidence is known, easily found, and examined by all … the criminal investigators, college professors, cops — local, state and federal, etc. can examine the evidence and find the truths. http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    Now, with easy access to the evidence of the crimes, justice will be done … the wheels of justice turn, and the criminals are beginning to show up caught in the gears!

    A CRIMINAL IS IN THE PUBLIC SERVANT OFFICE OF PRESIDENT, AND HE HAD HELP IN GETTING THERE — they will all eventually be found out … http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  35. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 1:18 pm #

    Winston Court: a news conference to state obamas birth certificate is a COMPLETE FRAUD.

    Actually that isn’t what the news conference stated at all-they said “possible evidence of tampering with the computer file”. Not the same thing at all. Regardless, Arpaio gets indicted before Obama finishes his second term.

    By the way, making a phony b.c. and posting it on-line is not a crime. misha made one for his cat and he is still here.

  36. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    Winston Court: However, all you are noticing is this takes time. It took time to get an thorough investigation, and for a news conference to state obamas birth certificate is a COMPLETE FRAUD.

    Such a news conference never really happened… Funny is it not how people do not even understand what DID happen…

    If the Sheriff would have had any real evidence that the document was a complete fraud then he would have filed with the DA/AG but all they found is that they cannot exclude forgery of an electronic copy of the document.

    Such fools birthers can be…

  37. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    “possible evidence of tampering with the computer file”.
    that’s correct and they made no effort to view the originals which the White House would have gladly shown (they showed it to reporters including a WND reporter plus Gunthrie took a photo, if Obama shows his BC in a court then Sheriff Joes stuff goes to the trash can (full faith and credit clause)
    do you understand that Winston Court

  38. avatar
    JPotter March 16, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

    Winston Court: That is fine and dandy, but all you have stated is, “YOU HAVE NOTHING!”

    Not at all, I stated you have a heaping mess of iron and continue to serve it up hot and fresh!

    Of course, it’s only truly ferrous if you’re sincere, and I’m not convinced of that. When it comes to loons, I remain ever-optimistic.

    As for the rest of your rant …. if you only knew 😉

  39. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 1:29 pm #

    Winston Court: It took time to get an thorough investigation

    Why haven’t you investigated places that elect a dog as mayor? That’s the real affront to intelligence.

  40. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 16, 2012 at 1:30 pm #

    Uh, Winston…. about your repeatedly calling our President a criminal because of
    Joe “Forrest Gump” Arpaio’s bogus, unofficial, biased, meaningless “investigation”:

    This is from the transcript:

    564 [53:33] If these documents are forged, and we believe as a result of the
    565 investigation that there is enough probable cause to say they are, then a crime has 566 been committed. I am not accusing the President of the United States of any crime.

    Arpaio is the one who HAS NOTHING.

    I have $1000 that says nothing will ever come of this ludicrous Birther propaganda. No state’s attorney will touch it. No Congressional Committee will look into it. Not even the most thick-headed Republican will bring it up in official business. Why? BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT’S HORSE MANURE.

    You a bettin’ man, Winnie?

  41. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 1:36 pm #

    Winston Court: That is fine and dandy

    Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker.

  42. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

    Scientist: “possible evidence of tampering with the computer file”.

    Let me expand upon that with an analogy that maybe even a birther can understand.

    Let’s say Sports Illustrated shoots their annual swimsuit issue and notices that one of the models has a small mole on a “strategic area”. They decide she would look better without it, so they retouch the photos to hide it. We could argue either way about their artistic judgement, but is it a fraud? A crime? Nope. Because the model is still a gorgeous young woman wearing an extremely tiny swimsuit, posing in some lovely tropical locale. And none of the readers care.

    Similarly, if a White House aide chose scanner settings to make a birth certifiicate more readable, it isn’t a fraud, it isn’t a crime, because the President was still born in Honolulu on August 4, 1961.

    So, just as the editor of Sports Illustrated isn’t heading for jail, neither is the President, nor the aide who scanned the document.

  43. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 1:58 pm #

    Winston Court: Like I said, there is no point, other than complete liars, to keep saying that obamas birth certificate is not a COMPLETE FRAUD …http://www.stockton.x10.mxYou offer your opinions and lies … the truth can be seen by all … you must not have the skills to be about to use the tools and see that this proves there is NO argument, simply an OBAMACRIME … but you make the fatal mistake of thinking all others, that ignorant … it is not the ignorant who are of importance here, they have already lost.

    blahblahblah… Any. Day. Now.

    Good luck with that!

  44. avatar
    JoZeppy March 16, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    Winston Court: It took time to get an thorough investigation

    So thorough they didn’t even contact the state that claims to have issued the birth certificate, and then spent time “investigating” an image of a selective service card they pulled from the internet….yeah….very thorough indeed.

  45. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 2:41 pm #

    Anyone who wants to post a copy of obamas’ selective service card is welcome to do so. Anyone arguing the one which Arpaios’ investigation team, the Cold Case Posse, is free to do so, but it is a fraud — the evidence is presented in Arapios’ report, a link to which can be found here:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    … along will all links needed to see, evaluate and prove OBAMAS’ BIRTH CERTIFICATE IS A FRAUD.

    And, once one has done all that, they can begin investigating the string of false Social Security Numbers which obama has used … you can find everything to do so on the web.

    Truth is, there is absolute proof, this is NO longer a conspiracy, it is simply CONSPIRACY FACT!

    You just can’t put the genie back in the bottle — it is out! But, some can attempt to put “Lipstick on the pig” — until the cows come home! ROFLOL

  46. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 2:50 pm #

    Winston Court: But, some can attempt to put “Lipstick on the pig” — until the cows come home

    Now, that’s a horse of another color. You must be a black sheep, trying to pull the wool over our eyes. But who’s the goat now?

  47. avatar
    jayHG March 16, 2012 at 3:01 pm #

    Winston is just another seriously deluded birther who desparatly wants the scary black man to go away, waking up each day to see that the scary black man has NOT gone away, and going nuts posting like he is doing here.

    Tomorrow he will wake up, realize there is no news flash and the scary black man is still President of the United States, and it will start all over again.

    Such is the life of deluded birther winston. And I know this because he keeps blathering on and on ala Bagdad Bob (everyone knows who this is) about how any day now blah blah blah and frankly, it’s just boring.

  48. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    Well, there is a LOT OF PROOF HERE — proof that people who have been WRONG for so long and not going to give up. They are going to argue against ABSOLUTE PROOF — proof as strong as any DNA evidence, finger prints, smoking guns, blood tests, etc. that they are right, and the evidence is wrong — no big deal, you will not find more “innocent” people than you can find in prisons! ROFLOL

    But, in the end, there is now absolute proof … the genie is not going back in the bottle, the proof is not going to disappear … obama is a crook, end of story:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    No matter how long the nay sayers have been saying nay … they are still wrong, you just can’t change the evidence …

  49. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    “You just can’t put the genie back in the bottle”
    of course not, that, like your birther story, is just a fairy tale!
    what is true is Obama’s chance of re-election is very high,.

  50. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    richCares:
    “You just can’t put the genie back in the bottle”
    of course not, that, like your birther story, is just a fairy tale!
    what is true is Obama’s chance of re-election is very high,.

    As I pointed out, you will be willing to discuss anything … other than the ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE and truth … but then, that is what criminals are always reduced to. In the end, a CRIMINAL PRESIDENT looks no different than any common criminal. The only difference is in obamas’ mind … sad, so very, very sad …

  51. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 3:16 pm #

    Winston Court: In the end, a CRIMINAL PRESIDENT looks no different than any common criminal.

    Please cite the specifc statute that the President has violated.

    Thanks

  52. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 3:18 pm #

    Scientist: Let me expand upon that with an analogy that maybe even a birther can understand.

    Let’s say Sports Illustrated shoots their annual swimsuit issue and notices that one of the models has a small mole on a “strategic area”.They decide she would look better without it, so they retouch the photos to hide it.We could argue either way about their artistic judgement, but is it a fraud?A crime? Nope.Because the model is still a gorgeous young woman wearing an extremely tiny swimsuit, posing in some lovely tropical locale.And none of the readers care.

    Similarly, if a White House aide chose scanner settings to make a birth certifiicate more readable, it isn’t a fraud, it isn’t a crime, because the President was still born in Honolulu on August4, 1961.

    So, just as the editor of Sports Illustrated isn’t heading for jail, neither is the President, nor the aide who scanned the document.

    Or, a better explaination!

    A crook decides his birth certificate is not sufficient for his criminal plans, needs.

    So, he just fires up a Adobe Illustrator and makes it look the way he/she needs it to … which is what we are actually talking about here.

    Of course, other examples, of like criminality could be given, such as:

    A crook decides a dollar bill is not enough, so he fires up a graphics editor and changes it to a hundred dollar bill … same thing, and the crook will be caught in much the same way as with the evidence contained in the fraudulent birth certificate of obama!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  53. avatar
    G March 16, 2012 at 3:19 pm #

    Nah, I suspect he’s just another cheap Parody Troll trying to play crazy Birther. He’s way too over the top in his tone and writing.

    Poe’s Law demonstrates that it is hard to tell the mental patients from the mere pathetic @ssholes who get their jollies pretending to be mental patients.

    Regardless of which of the two “Winston” is, his portrayal of stupid insanity is simply to inane to be worth paying any attention.

    He’s just wasting space and wasting time and not worthy of either.

    jayHG: Winston is just another seriously deluded birther who desparatly wants the scary black man to go away, waking up each day to see that the scary black man has NOT gone away, and going nuts posting like he is doing here.Tomorrow he will wake up, realize there is no news flash and the scary black man is still President of the United States, and it will start all over again.Such is the life of deluded birther winston. And I know this because he keeps blathering on and on ala Bagdad Bob (everyone knows who this is) about how any day now blah blah blah and frankly, it’s just boring.

  54. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

    Please refer to my glossary entry on “Checkmate.”

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/glossary/

    Winston Court: But, in the end, there is now absolute proof … the genie is not going back in the bottle, the proof is not going to disappear … obama is a crook, end of story:

  55. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    Scientist: Please cite the specifc statute that the President has violated.

    Thanks

    You can research that, unless you are claiming it is legal to post fraudulent documents on a government/whitehouse website, and use fraudulent birth certificates — and claim they are legit government issued documents …

    I mean, common people can realize the crimes, that is why they don’t just print out birth certificates for themselves and start producing them as legal documents. But, if you want to test that out, print out a false birth certificate for yourself and go to a DMV near you and attempt to get a drivers license for yourself. Or, go to a welfare office and attempt to use the document there … hey, I encourage you to do all the research necessary for you to prove this to yourself!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    … I mean, it is like, DUH!, people!

  56. avatar
    Arthur March 16, 2012 at 3:26 pm #

    Answer:

    Winston Court: ABSOLUTE PROOF

    Question: With what brand of vodka does a birther make a Bloody Mary?

  57. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 3:31 pm #

    “other than the ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE and truth ”
    this whole site is about the evidence and the truth, too bad you are not!

  58. avatar
    Arthur March 16, 2012 at 3:33 pm #

    G: Nah, I suspect he’s just another cheap Parody Troll trying to play crazy Birther. He’s way too over the top in his tone and writing.

    Yup. Winnie is as fraudelent as the expiration date on a package of ramen noodles. He’s a flim-flam man, commenting on blogs because no one at work wants to read any more of his bad limericks.

  59. avatar
    Obsolete777 March 16, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    Winston Court: You can research that, unless you are claiming it is legal to post fraudulent documents on a government/whitehouse website, and use fraudulent birth certificates — and claim they are legit government issued documents …

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
    Hawaii says they are legit. Who should we believe- Hawaii, or some deranged birther? Hmmm…
    Good luck with your “criminal” charges, troll…

  60. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    Winston Court: I mean, common people can realize the crimes, that is why they don’t just print out birth certificates for themselves and start producing them as legal documents. But, if you want to test that out, print out a false birth certificate for yourself and go to a DMV near you and attempt to get a drivers license for yourself.

    It’s not illegal to produce fake birth certificates. There are dozens of them on-line for the President made by various people as jokes, tricks etc. And misha made one for his cat and posted it. Of course it would be illegal to use one to get a license. But you don’t know what the President showed to get his license, do you? In fact, you don’t know much of anything, do you?

  61. avatar
    Sef March 16, 2012 at 3:46 pm #

    Winston Court: You can research that, unless you are claiming it is legal to post fraudulent documents on a government/whitehouse website, and use fraudulent birth certificates — and claim they are legit government issued documents …

    I mean, common people can realize the crimes, that is why they don’t just print out birth certificates for themselves and start producing them as legal documents.But, if you want to test that out, print out a false birth certificate for yourself and go to a DMV near you and attempt to get a drivers license for yourself.Or, go to a welfare office and attempt to use the document there … hey, I encourage you to do all the research necessary for you to prove this to yourself!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    … I mean, it is like, DUH!, people!

    The common term for your idea is GIGO (garbage in garbage out). You accept a false premise and cannot understand why your conclusion is not accepted by others. The simple fact is that the LFBC image posted on the internet was scanned from a GENUINE hard-copy, signed, sealed document from the HI DOH. It was NOT generated from nothing by a computer program as you seem to assume.

  62. avatar
    bovril March 16, 2012 at 3:49 pm #

    Winnie……

    Still waiting on a reponse…

    Care to explain to us how your “forensic” evidence ain’t

    Why didn’t Corsi, Arpaio and Zullo as the first minima requirement not contact the Hawai’i Department of Health and request information on the BC

    Come on, I’m sure you have ABSOLUTE ANSWERS

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

    Only that’s not really true. The police don’t take somebody off the street, hand them an evidence collection kit, point them to a DNA sequencing machine and then present the results. Real investigations involve people who are specially trained and certified in their fields, In a series of cases, including Daubert, the Supreme Court outlined procedures for keeping junk science out of the courts.

    By no stretch of the imagination is anyone on the Cold Case Posse remotely competent to assert what they assert, and if they ever tried to testify in court as an expert, they would never be allowed to do so.

    Orly Taitz tried to do exactly this in her Atlanta case, when Felicito Papa testified. There was no defense present to challenge him, but the Judge discarded all of Orly’s “expert” testimony because they were unqualified.

    This reply isn’t for Winston but just a general opportunity to give reasons for my opinions.

    Winston Court: The evidence is as valid as any DNA, rifling marks on a bullet, blood tests, drug tests, fingerprints taken from a crime scene, or forensic evidence found on forged documents.

  64. avatar
    Stanislaw March 16, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    Winston Court:
    Any damn fool…

    If there’s any group of people who would know about damn fools, it would be the birthers.

  65. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 4:13 pm #

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    The truth, like the genie let out of the bottle, just won’t disappear!

  66. avatar
    Stanislaw March 16, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    Scientist: Now, that’s a horse of another color.You must be a black sheep, trying to pull the wool over our eyes.But who’s the goat now?

    Every dog has his day but eventually the chickens will come home to roost.

  67. avatar
    DP March 16, 2012 at 4:34 pm #

    “The genie is out of the bottle, the genie is out of the bottle, the genie is out of the bottle…”

    They will keep saying this, clicking their heels together as they hug their Sheriff Joe teddy bear, until someone makes the big bad negro go away.

  68. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 4:38 pm #

    There is no reason to call people names.
    There is no reason to attempt to make a crime a racial issue.
    There is no reason to get mad at any person, or group of people.
    There is no reason to name larger crimes, and attempt to say this is a small crime.

    There is simply the evidence of a crime(s.)
    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    To quote obama, “The only people who don’t want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide.” — Barack Obama (Barry Soetoro)

  69. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

    Americans everywhere, TRUE AMERICANS, are speaking out, naming obamas’ crimes, calling for justice, going on record, this is but one example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h0EdpvZ23s&feature=related

    All research is going to end up on the crooks door step, a crook whose crimes have dwarfed those of nixons watergate, namely Barack Obama (Barry Soetoro!)

    The genie is out of the bottle:
    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  70. avatar
    DP March 16, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

    Winston Court:
    There is no reason to call people names.
    There is no reason to attempt to make a crime a racial issue.
    There is no reason to get mad at any person, or group of people.
    There is no reason to name larger crimes, and attempt to say this is a small crime.

    There is simply the evidence of a crime(s.)
    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    To quote obama, “The only people who don’t want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide.” — Barack Obama (Barry Soetoro)

    The evidence you site has been thoroughly debunked.

    That debunking has been extensively documented. The fact that no legal authority has the slightest interest in pursuing these “crimes” speaks for itself.

    The state of Hawaii has stated in writing that the birth certificate presented by Obama is a valid copy of the original in state records.

    That certification would be accepted at face value by any court over the blathering of lunatics who believe examining an image of a document says anything about the authenticity of the document itself.

    You cling to lurid conspiracy delusions for reasons that are transparent to anyone with a brain. If you don’t like people noting that, either take a good hard look in the mirror and try to become a better person, or go hang out with people who embrace the same prejudices that animate you.

  71. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    Winston Court: http://www.stockton.x10.mxThe truth, like the genie let out of the bottle, just won’t disappear!

    Yes, please, keep reposting your awful, terribad website that was apparently designed by a webdesigner who you kept in a crate since 1997. Really, on par with Drudge’s site, beautiful.

    Your evidence is crap based on crap filled to the brim with more crap, and “common” people really don’t care at all. Unfortunately for you, the entire country is not mentally ill.

  72. avatar
    JPotter March 16, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    The djinn aren’t exactly christian …. you’re comparing your ‘truth’ to islamic fairies?

  73. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    DP: The evidence you site has been thoroughly debunked.

    That debunking has been extensively documented. The fact that no legal authority has the slightest interest in pursuing these “crimes” speaks for itself.

    The state of Hawaii has stated in writing that the birth certificate presented by Obama is a valid copy of the original in state records.

    That certification would be accepted at face value by any court over the blathering of lunatics who believe examining an image of a document says anything about the authenticity of the document itself.

    You cling to lurid conspiracy delusions for reasons that are transparent to anyone with a brain. If you don’t like people noting that, either take a good hard look in the mirror and try to become a better person, or go hang out with people who embrace the same prejudices that animate you.

    You really have to learn to understand what a REAL DEBUNKING IS!

    A bunch of statements, a bunch of claims, a bunch of opinions, a bunch of guesses, etc. ARE NOT A DEBUNKING … there is only evidence, and what the evidence proves …

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    The genie is out of the bottle, the crime(s) have been exposed … this is going to be impossible to cover up, this is going to be impossible to hide … if someone does not have the technical abilities to understand the evidence, that is a shame … however, the evidence and proofs stand … nay sayers can scream, rant, stomp their feet, obfuscate, lie, deny, refuse to admit the truth — or any combination of the above.

    But, in the end, you are simply left with truths and the evidence of those truths … http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  74. avatar
    Sef March 16, 2012 at 4:58 pm #

    Winston Court: Americans everywhere, TRUE AMERICANS, are speaking out, naming obamas’ crimes, calling for justice, going on record, this is but one example:

    Really says a lot for our edumacation system, now doesn’t it.

  75. avatar
    Thrifty March 16, 2012 at 4:59 pm #

    This Winston guy is too much. I smell a troll.

  76. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 4:59 pm #

    “The genie is out of the bottle,”
    what with the fairy tails again, don’t you think it is time to grow up
    .
    intrade shows Obama’s chances of re-election are 60.3%, so you will have 4 more years of your silly fairy tales to spin, good luck with that

  77. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

    BillTheCat: Yes, please, keep reposting your awful, terribad website that was apparently designed by a webdesigner who you kept in a crate since 1997. Really, on par with Drudge’s site, beautiful.

    Your evidence is crap based on crap filled to the brim with more crap, and “common” people really don’t care at all. Unfortunately for you, the entire country is not mentally ill.

    You forgot to include your proof, and evidence contrary to obamas’ crimes. I am sure you can find something from legitimate authorities, to back up your denial of the truth:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    The truth stands naked before all, all can examine it, all can offer REAL EVIDENCE … but until more evidence is made available, credible evidence, evidence by a lawful authority … I am afraid we will have to accept the lawful evidence given to us.

  78. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    Winston Court: You really have to learn to understand what a REAL DEBUNKING IS!

    So do you, champ.

    And a bunch of unsubstantiated heresay based on anonymous “sources” coupled with “forensic” examinations by non-experts isn’t EVIDENCE either.

    This guy HAS to be a troll, no one can be this dumb.

  79. avatar
    DP March 16, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    Winston Court: You really have to learn to understand what a REAL DEBUNKING IS!

    A bunch of statements, a bunch of claims, a bunch of opinions, a bunch of guesses, etc. ARE NOT A DEBUNKING … there is only evidence, and what the evidence proves …

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    The genie is out of the bottle, the crime(s) have been exposed … this is going to be impossible to cover up, this is going to be impossible to hide … if someone does not have the technical abilities to understand the evidence, that is a shame … however, the evidence and proofs stand … nay sayers can scream, rant, stomp their feet, obfuscate, lie, deny, refuse to admit the truth — or any combination of the above.

    But, in the end, you are simply left with truths and the evidence of those truths … http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    Uh, you’re the one screaming and ranting and holding your breath ’til you turn blue while saying the same things over and over again and mistaking that for intellectual discourse.

    Sane people note that the state of Hawaii stands behind Obama’s birth certificate. Any court would consider that definitive. But by all means, keep trumpeting a sham investigation you don’t even understand and whose patron has no intention of pursuing with further legal action.

    And keep telling yourself its not because a black man has blown up your little world.

  80. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 5:04 pm #

    Winston Court: You forgot to include your proof, and evidence contrary to obamas’ crimes. I am sure you can find something from legitimate authorities, to back up your denial of the truth:http://www.stockton.x10.mxThe truth stands naked before all, all can examine it, all can offer REAL EVIDENCE … but until more evidence is made available, credible evidence, evidence by a lawful authority … I am afraid we will have to accept the lawful evidence given to us.

    Obama showed his proof. Posted it online. People was and touched the certificate. and I’ll remind you, again, that your side has lost over 100 COURT CASES. Think about it. Not a single solitary judge or real legal expert in the country agrees with your garbage.

    Try harder.

  81. avatar
    DP March 16, 2012 at 5:05 pm #

    Winston Court: You forgot to include your proof, and evidence contrary to obamas’ crimes.I am sure you can find something from legitimate authorities, to back up your denial of the truth:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    The truth stands naked before all, all can examine it, all can offer REAL EVIDENCE … but until more evidence is made available, credible evidence, evidence by a lawful authority … I am afraid we will have to accept the lawful evidence given to us.

    Uh, the only lawful authority that has gone on record is the state of Hawaii. It has provided a piece of compelling evidence called verification of its own state records.

    Until Sheriff Joe decides to do anything other than hawk books to the gullible with his cold case file, it hasn’t an ounce of lawful authority behind it..

  82. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

    “The genie is out of the bottle,”
    even little kids don’t believe in fairy tales
    but so you know Obama ordered the Seals to rescue the ship captain that the pirates took hostage, Obama ordered the increased drone attacks that killed many terrorists, Obama ordered the raid that took out Osama Bi Laden, Obama save the auto industry, while he’s doing these thing you are mumbling hateful things that are based on fiction and only in your little mind.

  83. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 5:14 pm #

    So, Winston, what are you trying to hide? Because you are hiding from the truth and definitely not disclosing any.

    Winston Court:
    There is no reason to call people names.
    There is no reason to attempt to make a crime a racial issue.
    There is no reason to get mad at any person, or group of people.
    There is no reason to name larger crimes, and attempt to say this is a small crime.

    There is simply the evidence of a crime(s.)
    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    To quote obama, “The only people who don’t want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide.” — Barack Obama (Barry Soetoro)

  84. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    DP: Uh, the only lawful authority that has gone on record is the state of Hawaii. It has provided a piece of compelling evidence called verification of its own state records.

    Until Sheriff Joe decides to do anything other than hawk books to the gullible with his cold case file, it hasn’t an ounce of lawful authority behind it..

    Actually, the govenor of Hawaii has admitted that NO REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE can be found!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html

    So, we are left with the fraudulent one, posted on the website of the whitehouse, which is a crime http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    And, of course, there is the elections clerk who has sworn an affidavit that there is not LEGAL birth certificate:
    http://www.scribd.com/puzo1/d/47512486-Sworn-Affidavit-by-Tim-Adams-No-Hawaii-Hospital-Generated-Long-Form-Birth-Cert-Exists-for-Obama

    Now, you can attack the messenger all you would like, but the message remains loud and clear, and simply points at the evidence:
    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    ALL the evidence, so far, is that obama is simply a criminal, there is no credible evidence to the contrary, at this time … but an explanation, from obama, on why he is confused as to have posted a fraudulent, constructed, false birth certificate on the whitehouse website and is claiming the fraud as his would be QUITE INTERESTING …

    … we are waiting …

  85. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 5:20 pm #

    But none of that actually happened. The President posted a legitimate document online. As you said elsewhere, “Duh, people!”

    Winston Court: Or, a better explaination!

    A crook decides his birth certificate is not sufficient for his criminal plans, needs.

    So, he just fires up a Adobe Illustrator and makes it look the way he/she needs it to … which is what we are actually talking about here.

    Of course, other examples, of like criminality could be given, such as:

    A crook decides a dollar bill is not enough, so he fires up a graphics editor and changes it to a hundred dollar bill … same thing, and the crook will be caught in much the same way as with the evidence contained in the fraudulent birth certificate of obama!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  86. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 5:25 pm #

    Haha yeh ok, this guy’s a troll. Parroting the same drivel over and over does not an argument make. I don’t waste my time posting the same answers over and over at birther sites, and I’m not going to do it here either, it’s a waste of time trying to speak of facts to a thick as a brick birther troll.

    Let us know when you prove any of this in a court of law, then we’ll care. Tah! 😀

  87. avatar
    DP March 16, 2012 at 5:26 pm #

    Winston Court: Actually, the govenor of Hawaii has admitted that NO REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE can be found!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html

    You need to read wider. The article you site doesn’t even say what you claim. Multiple statements in it are factually incorrect. And subsequently, the state of Hawaii delivered, at Obama’s request, a copy of the certificate on file with a certified statement attesting to its validity.

    Keep waiting. You always will be since you don’t want to accept the truth.

  88. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 5:27 pm #

    You can keep waiting. Nothing’s ever going to happen.

    The story about the governor is a lie, and Tim Adams said a bunch of unverifiable stuff, hearsay and double hearsay. You might as well quote me. That would be some triple hearsay. More is better, right? I mean, I heard Tiom Adams say that someone else told him that they knew that it was generally accepted that there was no birth certificate. The you can quote me, and make it even more legal!

    Quoting old lies and unsubstantiated assertions is not going to do you much good. I believe I hear another judge dismissing a case against Obama. What is that? Angels get their wings when bells ring, but every time a birther lies, judges gets their robes?

    Winston Court: Actually, the govenor of Hawaii has admitted that NO REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE can be found!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html

    So, we are left with the fraudulent one, posted on the website of the whitehouse, which is a crimehttp://www.stockton.x10.mx

    And, of course, there is the elections clerk who has sworn an affidavit that there is not LEGAL birth certificate:
    http://www.scribd.com/puzo1/d/47512486-Sworn-Affidavit-by-Tim-Adams-No-Hawaii-Hospital-Generated-Long-Form-Birth-Cert-Exists-for-Obama

    Now, you can attack the messenger all you would like, but the message remains loud and clear, and simply points at the evidence:
    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    ALL the evidence, so far, is that obama is simply a criminal, there is no credible evidence to the contrary, at this time … but an explanation, from obama, on why he is confused as to have posted a fraudulent, constructed, false birth certificate on the whitehouse website and is claiming the fraud as his would be QUITE INTERESTING …

    … we are waiting …

  89. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 5:33 pm #

    DP: You need to read wider. The article you site doesn’t even say what you claim. Multiple statements in it are factually incorrect. And subsequently, the state of Hawaii delivered, at Obama’s request, a copy of the certificate on file with a certified statement attesting to its validity.

    Keep waiting. You always will be since you don’t want to accept the truth.

    Yes, you mention the crime, but fail to provide any evidence of what the crime(s) is/are not crimes … all I pointed out was what evidence we are left with:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    I am sure you guys are just forgetting to provide the real evidence, but denials, opinions, nay sayings, etc. IS NOT EVIDENCE …

  90. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 5:39 pm #

    Sorry, but you are the one accusing someone; thus, you are the one who needs to provide evidence. And lies don’t count. You can’t keep pointing to lies and expecting most people to take them seriously.

    Again, the birth certificate (both of them) prove OBama was born in America. There also are things like birth announcements published in the newspapers at that time. That’s enough, right there, but this website, and the rest of the internet, is full of more. All you have to do is put aside obvious lies and do some actual research.

    Winston Court: Yes, you mention the crime, but fail to provide any evidence of what the crime(s) is/are not crimes … all I pointed out was what evidence we are left with:

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    I am sure you guys are just forgetting to provide the real evidence, but denials, opinions, nay sayings, etc. IS NOT EVIDENCE …

  91. avatar
    Horus March 16, 2012 at 5:46 pm #

    Winston Court: You will find links to all the necessary materials and a brief description on how to use them, with links to show you how to do the forensics … now you can KNOW!

    obviously his first visit to this site.

  92. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 5:50 pm #

    Winston Court: I am sure you guys are just forgetting to provide the real evidence, but denials, opinions, nay sayings, etc. IS NOT EVIDENCE …

    Here you go:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    And this goes with it from Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution:

    “Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.”

    You’re welcome.

    Feel free to pass that along to your little birther bigot buddies.

  93. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 5:57 pm #

    Winston Court: And, of course, there is the elections clerk who has sworn an affidavit that there is not LEGAL birth certificate:

    I swore in an affidavit that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990, and posted it online: http://didglennbeckrapeandmurderagirl.blogspot.com/

  94. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 6:06 pm #

    Birther Berg sent 200 pages of Winston Court’s type of proof to the court in PA
    lots of evidence says berg
    Motion to strike was filed in Berg’s case and today March 16, 2012 it was granted so hearing is canceled
    .
    Berg, Philip J. Berg, Philip J. Petitioner
    Document Name: the motion to strike and dimiss is granted and the heairng in this matter scheduled for 3/19/12 is CANCELLED.

    as for Tim Adams, “there is not LEGAL birth certificate”, he did not say “NOT”, he said he heard that from an unnamed official, it’s called hearsay not proof

  95. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 6:10 pm #

    So, in the end, here are the links to the only evidence, collected by legal authorities, and proving that there is abundant evidence that a crime has occurred.
    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    Now, we need to find out:
    1) Who constructed the fraudulent birth certificate?
    2) Who posted the fraudulent birth certificate to the whitehouse website?
    3) Why obama is confused and thinks a fraudulent document is his?
    4) How this crime could have occurred, right under the noses of the FBI?
    5) How deep this crime goes, and what parties were aiding, and assisting in this crime?
    6) Why obama has used ~39 different Social Security cards to represent himself?

    This is much like an iceberg. So far, we have only seen the tip. It will be interesting to see future developments in the investigation of these crimes.

    Stay tuned!

  96. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 6:18 pm #

    Winston Court: Stay tuned!

    We will – waiting for you to prove your nonsense in court. Never going to happen.

    What’s more – The Sherrif will never testify or submit his “evidence” to any legal authority. Ever. Have fun! 🙂

  97. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 6:19 pm #

    Scientist: But who’s the goat now?

    “So I got a goat and it saved my life…Walter christened his goat Guilt Free and keeps it in a pen at the winery for all to see. If was the inspiration for his famous statement: “They took my name and heritage, but they didn’t get my goat.”

    http://www.inc.com/magazine/19811201/2124_pagen_4.html

  98. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 6:19 pm #

    I guess there had to be *some* positive side-effects of climate change and of tragedies like melting Icebergs. But not only icebergs are melting, so is the make-believe birthers call investigations. Melting…melting…

    Winston Court:

    This is much like an iceberg.So far, we have only seen the tip.It will be interesting to see future developments in the investigation of these crimes.

  99. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 6:23 pm #

    So in the end you prefer lies to truth, whether your lies or someone else’s lies.

    Winston Court: So, in the end, here are the links to the only evidence, collected by legal authorities, and proving that there is abundant evidence that a crime has occurred.

  100. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    Winston Court: the genie is not going back in the bottle

    You can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube, not even once in a blue moon.

  101. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    Winston Court must be just scamming us, no one can be as dumb as he presents himself, he must be an Obat posting to make Birthers look really dumb, in that he is really successful.

  102. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 6:25 pm #

    Winston Court: Actually, the govenor of Hawaii has admitted that NO REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE can be found!

    That is a lie as well.

    In fact he has certified that the Long Form Birth Certificate is in fact showing evidence of Obama’s birth on US soil.

    Why are you spreading rumors, falsehoods and innuendos?

    Educate yourself before you allow others to make you look like a fool (Romans 1:22)

  103. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 6:27 pm #

    Winston Court: So, in the end, here are the links to the only evidence, collected by legal authorities, and proving that there is abundant evidence that a crime has occurred.

    There is no evidence that there is any fraud or evidence of a crime.
    Sorry my friend, even Arpaio did not claim a crime had been committed, just that he could not eliminate that the electronic document had not been altered.

    Such foolishness.

  104. avatar
    jayHG March 16, 2012 at 6:27 pm #

    Winston Court: Yes, you mention the crime, but fail to provide any evidence of what the crime(s) is/are not crimes … all I pointed out was what evidence we are left with:http://www.stockton.x10.mxI am sure you guys are just forgetting to provide the real evidence, but denials, opinions, nay sayings, etc. IS NOT EVIDENCE …

    Well, Barack Obama is President of the United States, so….

  105. avatar
    jayHG March 16, 2012 at 6:28 pm #

    Winston Court: So, in the end, here are the links to the only evidence, collected by legal authorities, and proving that there is abundant evidence that a crime has occurred.http://www.stockton.x10.mxNow, we need to find out:1) Who constructed the fraudulent birth certificate?2) Who posted the fraudulent birth certificate to the whitehouse website?3) Why obama is confused and thinks a fraudulent document is his?4) How this crime could have occurred, right under the noses of the FBI?5) How deep this crime goes, and what parties were aiding, and assisting in this crime?6) Why obama has used ~39 different Social Security cards to represent himself?This is much like an iceberg. So far, we have only seen the tip. It will be interesting to see future developments in the investigation of these crimes.Stay tuned!

    Well, Barack Obama is President of the United States, so….

  106. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 6:28 pm #

    Winston Court: Americans everywhere, TRUE AMERICANS, are speaking out, naming obamas’ crimes, calling for justice, going on record, this is but one example:

    True Americans? Making real Americans look as if we are all fools? Wow…

  107. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 6:32 pm #

    Stanislaw: Every dog has his day but eventually the chickens will come home to roost.

    Scientist: Now, that’s a horse of another color.You must be a black sheep, trying to pull the wool over our eyes.But who’s the goat now?

    And stop pulling my leg.

  108. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 6:50 pm #

    Winston Court: Yeah

    My friends and family and I will be campaigning and voting for the reelection of our President Barack Obama.

    Yeah!

    Obama/Biden 2012!!

  109. avatar
    DP March 16, 2012 at 6:51 pm #

    richCares:
    Winston Court must be just scamming us, no one can be as dumb as he presents himself, he must be an Obat posting to make Birthers look really dumb, in that he is really successful.

    They can be that dumb, and they are.

    when someone desperately wants something to be true, they are willing to render themselves effectively stupid regardless of their intellect.

  110. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 6:52 pm #

    Winston Court: OBAMA IS SAYING THE .PDF IS AN ACCURATE SCAN OF HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE, AND CLAIMING IT AS HIS.

    So you say. I would say he is claiming it is a sufficient representation to show the valid data on his birth certificate, such that any sane person not using Adobe Illustrator in the same way that an 8-year-old would use a Sawzall to fix a television would accept as such.

    And so it is. And so the State of Hawaii confirms.

    wah wah wah skills to understand wah wah wah use the tools, wah wah wah arguing anything???? Wah wah wah don’t know what the hell wah wah wah can’t recognize wah wah wah truth wah wah wah laid right before you!!!1!!one!ZOMG!!ponies!

    Uh, yeah.

    If you must know my secret shame, I did spend the time to download Wondershare PDF Editor Pro. With that and the UNIX “strings” and “od” commands, I was able to confirm what other people with a lot more expertise than you or me, such as Frank Arduini and Neal Krawetz, have laid out long ago.

    To me, the major smoking gun from that level of forensics is the so-called “safety paper layer.” If you’ve seen this — and, surprise! You never see it in isolation in the CCP videos — you know that any claim that you can freely move objects around in the document is a load of pinto beans.

    …and of course, your biggest problem is that before you even try to use that level of examination as any sort of proof of anything, you have to climb two 100-foot walls: the State of Hawaii verifying the data, and the existence of the certified LFBC paper document, of which there are multiple images of in existence (I can enumerate at least 3) — none of which can have been generated from the PDF.

  111. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 6:55 pm #

    Perhaps, but I know living, breathing people just like him.

    richCares:
    Winston Court must be just scamming us, no one can be as dumb as he presents himself, he must be an Obat posting to make Birthers look really dumb, in that he is really successful.

  112. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 7:00 pm #

    I see a lot of anger, but hey, some people will do ANYTHING to not have to admit that they have no facts, no evidence to the contrary — they are simply stuck in personal attacks on other individuals, attempting to distract from the real evidence, the only evidence presented by authorities … yeah, I don’t find that strange at all.

    And, just personal opinions, innuendo, personal doubts … they are a dime a dozen … truth is, here is the real evidence, the only evidence pointed to by authorities, the only evidence accepted by authorities and deemed proper evidence that a crime has been committed … it is quite simple, A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED …

    Of course, I can think of many examples of what is being said here, it all comes down to something as simple as this, “A crook has just been caught in the area of a bank robbery, he is holding a large bag of money — when asked to explain this, he says — I FOUND IT!” ROFLOL!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    I mean, the evidence stands … a crime has been committed, pure and quite simple …

  113. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

    vic: why are you directing us to a web site with Mexican registration

    “Wish I was in
    Tia-juana
    Flaming out on B Obama…”

    — Wall of Doodoo

  114. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 7:07 pm #

    Winston Court: I see a lot of anger, but hey, some people will do ANYTHING to not have to admit that they have no facts, no evidence to the contrary

    I believe the word you are looking for is “projection.”

  115. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 7:12 pm #

    justlw: “Wish I was in
    Tia-juana
    Flaming out on B Obama…”

    – Wall of Doodoo

    Just for you, use this, instead!:

    HOW CAN I EXAMINE OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND KNOW IT IS A FRAUD?
    You will need a few things:

    1) A copy of the fraudulent birth certificate, directly from the whitehouse website:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    1a.) You will also need Adobe Reader to open the web file, and download/save it to your hard drive:
    http://get.adobe.com/reader

    2) A free trial copy of Adobe Illustrator:
    http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=illustrator
    (this will allow you to open the birth certificate with software which is capable of displaying the layers, accurately, and allowing the fraud to be seen in detail.)

    3) Arpaio’s full video report, to show you a few things to look for. It discusses important evidence of fraud:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1wiGDYPALI
    (duplicating the demonstrations, with the tools given above, will allow you to do much of the same investigation Arapio’s team did.)

    4) Tom Harrison’s report on defects/artifacts in birth certificate, proving fraud:
    http://www.wnd.com/files/2011/07/110726whitedots.pdf
    (following Tom’s guide, you will be able to see that that obama’s birth certificate is an ABSOLUTE FRAUD!)

    The web is also full of other inconsistencies and evidence of the fraud, mismatched type imported from other documents, mixed, modern day computer type with 1961 typewriter type, etc.

    There is little doubt that the birth certificate is a fraud (but, hey, if obama can explain the posting of a fraudulent document to the whitehouse website — and how he became so confused as to think it is his birth certificate, I will listen.) And, one must wonder why a criminal is being allowed to remain in the public servant office of president. There are obvious problems with a criminal occupying the office of president, one is the military being unable to follow unlawful orders, since a criminal issuing orders from the whitehouse, and acting as commander in chief would be unlawful, all of his orders would be unlawful, and the military would be unable to act, lawfully, on such orders.

    Also, any and all actions, bill, laws, executive orders, decisions, etc. would be unlawful, illegal, unbinding and without validity — if done by an illegal and criminally treasonous president. As more and more American citizens wake up to these truths, there is only one way to accurately describe the situation we are in, or simply, “WE ARE IN DEEP DUDU!”

    And remember, while Angels may have halos, birth certificates DON’T! (you will learn about this while examing the materials, above.) 🙂

  116. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 7:16 pm #

    Winston Court: Just for you, use this, instead!:

    I read your little document yesterday.

    As I already told you, I dissected the PDF myself, a while ago.

    I’ve seen the CCP videos.

    They’re wrong. I seen ’em. Wrong wrong wrong.

    (Actually, they’re worse than wrong: they’re rigging the demo.)

    And you still need to get past the Hawaii thing and the paper LFBC thing.

  117. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    justlw: I read your little document yesterday.

    As I already told you, I dissected the PDF myself, a while ago.

    I’ve seen the CCP videos.

    They’re wrong.I seen em.Wrong wrong wrong.

    (Actually, they’re worse than wrong: they’re rigging the demo.)

    And you still need to get past the Hawaii thing and the paper LFBC thing.

    Interesting, once again, you have provided “complete details” on your forensic analysis … let me see if I have them correct:
    1) You claim to have looked at it.

    2) You claim that you don’t agree.

    Well, EXCELLENT, once again you have proved exactly what I have been saying, opinion and innuendo (tea leaves, psychic observations, etc.) are what you offer in dispute of evidence: http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    THANKS! 🙂 … again …

  118. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 7:23 pm #

    Winston Court: This is much like an iceberg. So far, we have only seen the tip.

    So did Captain Edward John Smith.

    Also, please stop your ethnic slurs. Mr. Iceberg and Mr. Goldberg are generous members of my synagogue.

  119. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

    justlw: I read your little document yesterday.

    As I already told you, I dissected the PDF myself, a while ago.

    I’ve seen the CCP videos.

    They’re wrong.I seen em.Wrong wrong wrong.

    (Actually, they’re worse than wrong: they’re rigging the demo.)

    And you still need to get past the Hawaii thing and the paper LFBC thing.

    AND AGAIN … and pay attention here!

    It is obama who posted the .PDF, it is obama who claims this is an accurate scan of his birth certificate, it is obama who claims the fraud as proof, it is someone obama directed who posted the .PDF to the whitehouse website, it is obama who claims this is an accurate copy of his birth certificate …

    I am just claiming what he has offered is a COMPLETE FRAUD!

    He may be lying, I don’t know, maybe it is what he claims!

    But then, why guess when you can know: http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  120. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 7:27 pm #

    Winston Court: Tom Harrison’s report

    Oh, I just took a second look at this paper, just for you.

    He does the same thing the CCP does: he never shows you the “safety paper” image, which in actuality contains the entire LFBC. The remaining 8 images layer in black on top of the existing BC. (Including, btw, the “white dot” images he talks about. Why he thinks they’re white dots, I cannot say. They’re monochrome bitmasks — background vs. foreground.)

  121. avatar
    Arthur March 16, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

    Winston Court: I mean, the evidence stands … a crime has been committed, pure and quite simple …

    Well for goodness sake Winny, put together a posse and make a citizen’s arrest. Barack Obama isn’t going to frog-march himself into prison! You’ve done all you could here . . . we just wouldn’t listen. Unless you take real action, we’ll never be made to pay for our insolent rejection of your compelling claims.

    God’s speed, Winnie Court; God’s speed.

  122. avatar
    DP March 16, 2012 at 7:31 pm #

    So what’s the final verdict on Winston?

    Do folks think he’s just a troll, or do you really think he’s stupid enough to have stumbled upon these links and think we’ve never seen them before?

    I’m going with yes, he really is that stupid. It’s hard to fake the glee of self-assurance that genuine stupidity inspires.

  123. avatar
    J. Potter March 16, 2012 at 7:36 pm #

    AS much as I loathe cross-posting, this is just for WC, in light of his efforts to flog last year’s foolishness, which I have refuted, in detail, many times, in many places:

    … saying something, even a million times, doesn’t make it true. Every parent deals with this, and when children attempt to alter reality by describing their preferred version of events, parents call it “lying”. Due to the dangerous nature of “lying,” it is typically punished relatively harshly, in some households punished as severely as violence. It is hard for an individual or subgroup to productively coexist with larger groups if a common understanding cannot be maintained, and the act of “lying” subverts attempts to maintain that understanding. Thus liars must be corrected or expelled.No parent wants their kids to be an outcast. One of the key milestones in childhood development is outgrowing the temptation to lie by attaining the maturity to face reality.

    No one is saying WC has nothing. Just nothing of practical or actionable value. Nothing that will enhance anyone’s ability or understanding … quite the opposite in fact! If anyone has ANY lingering doubts about PDF Madness, ask me any time.

  124. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 7:40 pm #

    Plus birthers are big fans of “proving” their case by linking the same crappy designed website or text-screed over and over in hopes that it sticks (you know, like a certain something flung against a wall). So yeh he may be the real deal, since his logic is just perfect.

  125. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 7:40 pm #

    “So what’s the final verdict on Winston?”
    at first I thought he may be an Obat auditioning for an “The Onion” job
    now I am certain he is a mentally ill RWNJ, quite deluded. No sense trying to answer him, he is too far down the rabbit hole. For his families sake, I hope he gets some counseling.

  126. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 7:42 pm #

    BillTheCat:
    Plus birthers are big fans of “proving” their case by linking the same crappy designed website or text-screed over and over in hopes that it sticks (you know, like a certain something flung against a wall). So yeh he may be the real deal, since his logic is just perfect.

    Yeah, I see your point, so just access the materials, directly!

    HOW CAN I EXAMINE OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND KNOW IT IS A FRAUD?
    You will need a few things:

    1) A copy of the fraudulent birth certificate, directly from the whitehouse website:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    1a.) You will also need Adobe Reader to open the web file, and download/save it to your hard drive:
    http://get.adobe.com/reader

    2) A free trial copy of Adobe Illustrator:
    http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=illustrator
    (this will allow you to open the birth certificate with software which is capable of displaying the layers, accurately, and allowing the fraud to be seen in detail.)

    3) Arpaio’s full video report, to show you a few things to look for. It discusses important evidence of fraud:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1wiGDYPALI
    (duplicating the demonstrations, with the tools given above, will allow you to do much of the same investigation Arapio’s team did.)

    4) Tom Harrison’s report on defects/artifacts in birth certificate, proving fraud:
    http://www.wnd.com/files/2011/07/110726whitedots.pdf
    (following Tom’s guide, you will be able to see that that obama’s birth certificate is an ABSOLUTE FRAUD!)

    The web is also full of other inconsistencies and evidence of the fraud, mismatched type imported from other documents, mixed, modern day computer type with 1961 typewriter type, etc.

    There is little doubt that the birth certificate is a fraud (but, hey, if obama can explain the posting of a fraudulent document to the whitehouse website — and how he became so confused as to think it is his birth certificate, I will listen.) And, one must wonder why a criminal is being allowed to remain in the public servant office of president. There are obvious problems with a criminal occupying the office of president, one is the military being unable to follow unlawful orders, since a criminal issuing orders from the whitehouse, and acting as commander in chief would be unlawful, all of his orders would be unlawful, and the military would be unable to act, lawfully, on such orders.

    Also, any and all actions, bill, laws, executive orders, decisions, etc. would be unlawful, illegal, unbinding and without validity — if done by an illegal and criminally treasonous president. As more and more American citizens wake up to these truths, there is only one way to accurately describe the situation we are in, or simply, “WE ARE IN DEEP DUDU!”

    And remember, while Angels may have halos, birth certificates DON’T! (you will learn about this while examing the materials, above.)

  127. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 7:45 pm #

    I didn’t think I needed to publish my own forensic analysis. I said that what I saw confirms what Frank Arduini and Neal Krawetz reported in detail.

    Just for you, though. You will need a few things:

    1) A copy of the PDF from the White House web site. I trust you know the URL

    1a.) You don’t need a copy of Adobe Reader. What the kids call a “web browser” will be sufficient. (Protip: in order to save things on your computer, you’ll need to store it on your “hard drive”!)

    2) Wondershare PDF Editor Pro, because downloading and using Illustrator would be kind of like buying and learning to fly a C-130 to transport a loaf of bread from the local store to your house.

    3) Arpaio’s full video report, to see their lovely rigged demos.

    4) Tom Harrison’s report on defects/artifacts in birth certificate, proving that he is a dickhead.

    (I was able to see that he is an ABSOLUTE FRAUD!)

    5) Frank Arduini’s and Neal Krawetz’ analyses.

    Here’s what I did:

    1) Brought up “Mexican Radio” by Wall of Voodoo because I Love the ’80s.

    2) Deleted the 8 monochrome bitmask images, leaving what the CCP and Harrison call “image 9” or the “safety paper layer.”

    Awww, look at that. The BC’s still there!

    3) Went to the Hawaii web site and saw that they confirmed Obama is a natural born citizen and that the paper LFBC and COLB were legit.

    4) Went to a birther web site, saw an image of the paper LFBC that could not have been generated from the PDF.

    5) Went to two MSM web sites, saw images of the paper LFBC that could not have been generated from the PDF.

    6) Went to Savannah Guthrie’s web site, saw an image of the paper LFBC that could not have been generated from the PDF.

    7) Learned about Mixed Raster Compression to confirm that people who natter about halos are idiots. No offense intended.

    ‘k?

  128. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 7:46 pm #

    richCares:
    “So what’s the final verdict on Winston?”
    at first I thought he may be an Obat auditioning for an “The Onion” job
    now I am certain he is a mentally ill RWNJ, quite deluded. No sense trying to answer him, he is too far down the rabbit hole. Forhis families sake, I hope he gets some counseling.

    Well, I think some here have a point. When obama created, or had created, the fraudulent birth certificate, it was all lost by linking the same crappy designed birth certificate or text-screed over birth certificate … if had just been done better, the fraud would have worked!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  129. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 7:54 pm #

    Winston Court: “WE ARE IN DEEP DUDU!”

    You are in deep dudu, as you put it. I am in great shape. Never better. A-1.

  130. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 7:56 pm #

    DP: I’m going with yes, he really is that stupid. It’s hard to fake the glee of self-assurance that genuine stupidity inspires.

    Yep. Lord Basil had serious troll fingerprints all over him. This guy just has brick dust on his lacerated forehead.

  131. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    Winston Court: “WE ARE IN DEEP DUDU!”

    Not me. I just cleaned my cat’s litter box.

  132. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 7:59 pm #

    justlw:
    I didn’t think I needed to publish my own forensic analysis. I said that what I saw confirms what Frank Arduini and Neal Krawetz reported in detail.

    Just for you, though.You will need a few things:

    1) A copy of the PDF from the White House web site.I trust you know the URL

    1a.) You don’t need a copy of Adobe Reader. What the kids call a “web browser” will be sufficient.(Protip: in order to save things on your computer, you’ll need to store it on your “hard drive”!)

    2) Wondershare PDF Editor Pro, because downloading and using Illustrator would be kind of like buying and learning to fly a C-130 to transport a loaf of bread from the local store to your house.

    3) Arpaio’s full video report, to see their lovely rigged demos.

    4) Tom Harrison’s report on defects/artifacts in birth certificate, proving that he is a dickhead.

    (I was able to see that he is an ABSOLUTE FRAUD!)

    5) Frank Arduini’s and Neal Krawetz’ analyses.

    Here’s what I did:

    1) Brought up “Mexican Radio” by Wall of Voodoo because I Love the ’80s.

    2) Deleted the 8 monochrome bitmask images, leaving what the CCP and Harrison call “image 9‘ or the “safety paper layer.”

    Awww, look at that.The BC’s still there!

    3) Went to the Hawaii web site and saw that they confirmed Obama is a natural born citizen and that the paper LFBC and COLB were legit.

    4) Went to a birther web site, saw an image of the paper LFBC that could not have been generated from the PDF.

    5) Went to two MSM web sites, saw images of the paper LFBC that could not have been generated from the PDF.

    6) Went to Savannah Guthrie’s web site, saw an image of the paper LFBC that could not have been generated from the PDF.

    7) Learned about Mixed Raster Compression to confirm that people who natter about halos are idiots.No offense intended.

    ‘k?

    Well, you will need to point to some sites/info from credible authorities, to dispute the recent evidence which has been presented. However, I think you are rushing things too quickly.

    As, first the investigation will need to conclude, and make a final presentation of evidence. Indeed, now since the preliminary investigation has been made public, and a LARGE PORTION of the evidence made public, it would follow, this will trigger many other investigations … some on the federal level.

    Indeed, now that the FBI has been presented with hard and credible evidence, it would follow logic to expect an investigation by them to have started. Since, it is unusual for authorities to discuss ongoing investigations, I suspect we will only be made aware of these investigations as they approach conclusion.

    The next logical step would be to have a prosecutor examine all the evidence gleaned by the authorities and make a decision on if there is valid reason to prosecute, or not.

    Then a court become involved, and a jury selected and this taken to the logical conclusion …

    However, somewhere along those lines, one would expect a congressional investigation to also be done … but for now, we will all have to take a wait and see position, or do our own investigations, or simply double check Arpaios’ evidence, from the Cold Case Posse.

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  133. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 8:03 pm #

    Winston Court: Long post spewing out the same repeatedly debunked and disproven talking points and made up facts

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thank you for proving my point 😀 Spam and spew away!

    No matter how many times you post it, it doesn’t get any truthier!

  134. avatar
    BillTheCat March 16, 2012 at 8:05 pm #

    The FBI hasn’t been “presented” with anything, ignoramous. And in fact, they never will. Because Sherriff Joe will never do anything with his garbage heap.

    Too bad, so sad, for you.

  135. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 8:07 pm #

    BillTheCat: No matter how many times you post it, it doesn’t get any truthier!

    Birther idiots are too consumed with bigotry and the fear of their own shadows to see the obvious right in front of them.

    It won’t stop me from voting for the President and it will push many more moderates into doing the same.

  136. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 8:13 pm #

    Winston Court: Well, you will need to point to some sites/info from credible authorities,

    What? To counter the credible authority that is WND?

    But, OK:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/59087668/Response-to-Zebest
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04IBsz-9Wo
    http://www.delawareonline.com/graphics/2011-04-27-obama-birth-certificate.jpg
    http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx31-c.htm
    http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/BirthCertificateHighResolution.jpg
    http://lockerz.com/s/96540937
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42779923/ns/politics-white_house/
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/27/press-gaggle-press-secretary-jay-carney-4272011

    to dispute the recent evidence which has been presented.

    None of which is “recent” — it’s all stuff from last spring — and none of which was presented by any credentialed authority.

    Indeed, now that the FBI has been presented with hard and credible evidence”

    OK, I may have been too hasty on saying you’re sincere. When was the FBI presented with anything?

  137. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 8:14 pm #

    Winston Court: http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    I noticed your website ends with “.mx”.

    The “mx” is fully explained here:
    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/mx-5-tampons/1344347

  138. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 8:27 pm #

    misha: I noticed your website ends with “.mx”.

    The “mx” is fully explained here:
    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/mx-5-tampons/1344347

    ROFLOL!!!

    What it means is it is a site offering free web hosting, next time, just ask, I can save you the embarrassment of guessing wrong, having to purchase new tea leaves, the cost of consulting a psychic, etc. ….

    http://x10hosting.com/

    I should bill them for the free ad!

  139. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 8:28 pm #

    Winston Court: Indeed, now that the FBI has been presented with hard and credible evidence, it would follow logic to expect an investigation by them to have started. Since, it is unusual for authorities to discuss ongoing investigations, I suspect we will only be made aware of these investigations as they approach conclusion.

    The FBI has been presented with hard and credible evidence? When did that happen? In a press conference meant to get the media and Congress involved? How come Arpaio is not filing any charges with the DA/AG?

    Why is he chicken?

  140. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    Winston Court: However, somewhere along those lines, one would expect a congressional investigation to also be done … but for now, we will all have to take a wait and see position, or do our own investigations, or simply double check Arpaios’ evidence, from the Cold Case Posse.

    That’s what I have done and shown that there is no evidence of fraud. Check out my site for more information.

  141. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 8:35 pm #

    “Well, you will need to point to some sites/info from credible authorities”
    OK, here’s one
    John Woodman, a highly respected conservative, reviewed Sheriff Joe’s report
    http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obamabirthbook.com/2012/03/on-the-release-of-report-from-sheriff-joe-arpaio-stating-barack-obamas-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/
    .
    IvanZatkovich, a forensic document specialist, was paid by WND to check Obama’s BC, WND did not publish his findings as he found no evidence of fraud, you can google or search for him on Doc C’s site
    .
    Sheriff Joe’s posse is being ridiculed in Arizona, his great posse never attempted to view the originals at the White House. Nor did they contact DOH Hawaii. All they did is download a pdf from the web, yah, really silly huh.

  142. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 8:40 pm #

    If you don’t know, then you talk awfully big for someone who doesn’t know.

    “Yes officer, he’s the man; arrest him.”

    “For what?”

    “I don’t know.”

    Well, I can’t do anything then.”

    “Arrest him for forgery, fraud and usurpation!”

    “When did he do these things?”

    “I don’t know.”

    “What makes you think he did such things?”

    “I don’t know. Just arrest him. He needs to prove he didn’t do them. If I knew, you wouldn’t have to arrest him. Duh!”

    Winston Court:

    I am just claiming what he has offered is a COMPLETE FRAUD!

    He may be lying, I don’t know, maybe it is what he claims!

  143. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 8:43 pm #

    as you say, pay attention…it is Hawaii that says it is an accurate copy of his birth certificate, and it is the Constitution that says we have to give Hawaii full faith and credit for its documents…

    Winston Court: AND AGAIN … and pay attention here!

    It is obama who posted the .PDF, it is obama who claims this is an accurate scan of his birth certificate, it is obama who claims the fraud as proof, it is someone obama directed who posted the .PDF to the whitehouse website, it is obama who claims this is an accurate copy of his birth certificate …

  144. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 8:44 pm #

    richCares:
    “Well, you will need to point to some sites/info from credible authorities”
    OK, here’s one
    John Woodman, a highly respected conservative, reviewed Sheriff Joe’s report
    http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obamabirthbook.com/2012/03/on-the-release-of-report-from-sheriff-joe-arpaio-stating-barack-obamas-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/
    .
    IvanZatkovich, a forensic document specialist, was paid by WND to check Obama’s BC, WND did not publish his findings as he found no evidence of fraud, you can google or search for him on Doc C’s site
    .
    Sheriff Joe’s posse is being ridiculed in Arizona, his great posse never attempted to view the originals at the White House. Nor did they contact DOH Hawaii. All they did is download a pdf from the web, yah, really silly huh.

    As far as I know, Arpaios’ investigation stands, with the conclusion that a crime has been committed. Unless this crime is treated specially, there is a natural course for events to now follow … as, crimes are generally not just forgotten about, once they are discovered.

    Until Arpaio makes a statement, refuting his previous findings, they still stand. Unless another authority offers conflicting evidence, his findings still stand.

    I know bank robbers, once discovered, hope that it “all just goes away.” But hey, this is not wishful thinking!

    If you do some research, you will see behind any big drug bust, there has been weeks/months, even years of investigation … obamas’ crimes are no different than than any other criminals … he may think the president of the USA is above the law, but, in the end, the president is just another American citizen, and is punishable under the law as any other.

    Like I said, the genie is out of the bottle, the hard evidence lies on the table and is still under investigation … this, like any other story, has a beginning, and an end … we are just somewhere in the middle … http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  145. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

    While you are in listening mood, Hawaii says it is authentic. That means it is, per the Constitution even. So hey, maybe you can change your website to a big apology for your own confusion.

    Winston Court: (but, hey, if obama can explain the posting of a fraudulent document to the whitehouse website — and how he became so confused as to think it is his birth certificate, I will listen.)

  146. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 8:51 pm #

    Winston Court: As far as I know, Arpaios’ investigation stands, with the conclusion that a crime has been committed. Unless this crime is treated specially, there is a natural course for events to now follow … as, crimes are generally not just forgotten about, once they are discovered.

    Actually no such conclusion has been made. If there were such a conclusion, Arpaio would have to file with the DA/AG and he has refused to do so. Instead he was hoping the media or Congress would run with his ‘investigation’.

    Now that they won’t, nothing much is going to happen.

    To claim that Arpaio’s investigation showed that a crime had been committed runs against what was reported by Arpaio.

    It seems that you have been had as well… Poor birthers, they had so much hope riding on their sheriff that they did not even realize that they have been played.

    Look Obama released his LFBC which the DOH of Hawaii has certified as accurate. Instead, there is a document which is an electronic version of the document which shows layers which can be trivially explained by compression and suddenly there is ‘fraud’…

    Nothing much is going to happen because noone is willing to take such a foolish case.

  147. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 8:51 pm #

    Winston Court: Arpaios’ investigation

    Well, except for the “Arpaio” and “investigation” parts. More like “promo for Corsi and Zullo’s book, based on refried WND.”

    So, dude. You asked for my analysis. I gave you my step-by-step analysis. I tried to make it parallel yours as much as I could; I hope that wasn’t too confusing.

    Rather than responding (and I’m shocked that you didn’t, let me tell you!), you then asked for “credible authorities,” although neither you nor the CCP has produced any.

    I gave you credible authorities (by the way, if you’re short on time, I recommend prioritizing #3 and #5).

    Were you able to follow all of this, or do I need to break it down into little teeny pieces?

  148. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

    “As far as I know, Arpaios’ investigation stands,”
    there was no investigation by any police authority, there was rehashing of WND garbage, no real proof was presented, they claim a pdf was forged, that is silly. No effort was made to view the originals, no law agencyis interested in crap. (just you) Read Woodman’s book.

  149. avatar
    Arthur March 16, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

    Winston Court: I know bank robbers, once discovered, hope that it “all just goes away.” But hey, this is not wishful thinking!
    If you do some research, you will see behind any big drug bust, there has been weeks/months, even years of investigation …

    Oh, Winnie, you’re a dog chasing it’s own tail.

  150. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 8:54 pm #

    Paper:
    While you are in listening mood, Hawaii says it is authentic.That means it is, per the Constitution even.So hey, maybe you can change your website to a big apology for your own confusion.

    I know you are joking, when everyone is accusing the president, the holder of the highest public servant office in the USA, of treason, crimes and boldly abusing the American citizens trust — and of having been aided by other federal employees or groups … that all of the sudden what some bureaucrat(s) on the tiny island(s) of Hawaii are saying!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  151. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    Winston Court:

    Winston Court: Like I said, the genie is out of the bottle, the hard evidence lies on the table and is still under investigation … this, like any other story, has a beginning, and an end … we are just somewhere in the middle

    Until Arpaio makes a statement, refuting his previous findings, they still stand. Unless another authority offers conflicting evidence, his findings still stand.

    Sure and his ‘findings’ will be ignored as irrelevant. That his posse could not explain the layers in the birth certificate and refused to look at the actual printed document is fascinating to me.

    Arpaio has done nothing that warrants any further attention. He was hoping the media would pick it up, or perhaps Congress but of course, noone is foolish enough to fall for this swift-boating attempt.

    If Arpaio really stood by his ‘charges’ why does he not file them with the DA or AG? Because he is not that dumb.. All he is interested in giving the birthers the impression that he has done something but he is not going to make this official in any form or manner.

    Just wait and see… At the moment Joe is totally irrelevant and will remain so, the issue has died in the media and there are no official findings that amount to anything relevant.

    And finally, the so called evidences of fraud have been explained by me and others in quite some detail.

    Afraid to look?

  152. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    Winston Court: Like I said, the genie is out of the bottle, the hard evidence lies on the table and is still under investigation … this, like any other story, has a beginning, and an end … we are just somewhere in the middle

    The story is fully dead, the media dropped it, Congress is not interested, the courts keep on finding President Obama eligible and the DOH continues to stand behind the fact of President Obama’s birth on US soil.

    Pretty much the end… Bummer eh?

  153. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 9:01 pm #

    Winston Court: I know

    Your posts are asinine gibberish.

  154. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 9:03 pm #

    NBC: The story is fully dead, the media dropped it, Congress is not interested, the courts keep on finding President Obama eligible and the DOH continues to stand behind the fact of President Obama’s birth on US soil.

    Pretty much the end… Bummer eh?

    Yeah, that is what everyone has been saying, as more and more evidence has been found and presented … at the present, the conclusion that A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED … you just don’t find a crime, and then forget about it. If you doubt that, call your local sheriff and ask him/her …

  155. avatar
    richCares March 16, 2012 at 9:07 pm #

    “Pretty much the end… Bummer eh?”
    yeah, real Bummer. Winston Court needs to sell his frogs, no frog marching will occur!
    Obama’s re-election seems fairly certain, what will Sheriff Joe do about that.

  156. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 9:08 pm #

    I believe others have already pointed you to this evidence, but hey, here you go again. It not only refutes this “recent evidence” of which you speak (Arpaio), it preempts it and tosses it in the trash:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    Follow that with a constitutional chaser:

    Article IV Section I

    “Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state.”

    See how easy that is. Try it. You might like it.

    Winston Court: Well, you will need to point to some sites/info from credible authorities, to dispute the recent evidence which has been presented.

  157. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 9:10 pm #

    Majority Will: Your posts are asinine gibberish.

    Actually, my posts just point out the law, the evidence, what authorities are claiming, and presenting them … anyway, you can ignore anything I am saying, no harm in that.

    However, sheriffs have taken oaths to protect people and property, so have county, state and federal investigators, officials and authorities … it is their job to uphold them, it is their duty.

    I am expecting nothing, other than for them to do their jobs, carry out their duties … anything less would be wrong … and if they did not do their duties, they would be remiss in their responsibilities, and guilty of aiding and abetting a criminal in commission of a crime(s) … it is like DUH!

  158. avatar
    Thrifty March 16, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    Jesus people, use some self control and STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

  159. avatar
    RuhRoh March 16, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    Winston Court: Yeah, that is what everyone has been saying, as more and more evidence has been found and presented … at the present, the conclusion that A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED … you just don’t find a crime, and then forget about it. If you doubt that, call your local sheriff and ask him/her …

    I hear all the Birthers scream and cry that some sort of crime has been committed, yet none of them have worked to bring any sort of idictment or criminal charge.

    Hell, you haven’t even gotten the House of Representatives involved.

    No, Birthers have engaged in a long and largely futile campaign of internet smears and suits in civil courts.

    If the Birthers (or the CCP for that matter) really believed that a crime had been committed and had any evidence to back it up, you’d think that they’d have at least determined the appropriate venues for prosecution after 5 years.

  160. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    Winston Court: Actually

    You’re not making any sense.

  161. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 9:15 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Jesus people, use some self control and STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

    Yeah. It’s time.

  162. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Jesus people, use some self control and STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

    Urp.

  163. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    RuhRoh: I hear all the Birthers scream and cry that some sort of crime has been committed, yet none of them have worked to bring any sort of idictment or criminal charge.

    Hell, you haven’t even gotten the House of Representatives involved.

    No, Birthers have engaged in a long and largely futile campaign of internet smears and suits in civil courts.

    If the Birthers (or the CCP for that matter) really believed that a crime had been committed and had any evidence to back it up, you’d think that they’d have at least determined the appropriate venues for prosecution after 5 years.

    We’ve seen enough evidence that deranged bigots usually aren’t very bright.

  164. avatar
    J. Potter March 16, 2012 at 9:19 pm #

    Winston Court: I should bill them for the free ad!

    …. and Doc should bill you 😉

  165. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 9:20 pm #

    misha: Urp.

    בטאבון

  166. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    First, not *everyone* is foolish enough to believe obvious nonsense. In fact, most are quite satisfied with the president’s eligibility.

    Second, it’s not me. It’s the constitution. As I just posted. Article IV Section 1.

    Let me translate it for you: Full faith and credit shall be given to the documents produced by state bureaucrats, even those from tiny island states. You shall not “all of a sudden” discard that faith because someone starts making up stories.

    The “joke” is you will never apologize to the American people for your part in wittingly or unwittingly perpetuating the birther fraud.

    Winston Court: I know you are joking, when everyone is accusing the president, the holder of the highest public servant office in the USA, of treason, crimes and boldly abusing the American citizens trust — and of having been aided by other federal employees or groups … that all of the sudden what some bureaucrat(s) on the tiny island(s) of Hawaii are saying!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  167. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 9:29 pm #

    Paper:
    I believe others have already pointed you to this evidence, but hey, here you go again.It not only refutes this “recent evidence” of which you speak (Arpaio), it preempts it and tosses it in the trash:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    Follow that with a constitutional chaser:

    Article IV Section I

    “Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state.”

    See how easy that is.Try it.You might like it.

    Nothing “preempts” anything here!

    The current evidence, all of it presented, to date, stands in evidence of A CRIME.

    Until that is changed, until Arpaio calls a new news conference and explains his mistake, until a higher authority provides over-riding evidence, that is the conclusion.

    Again, anyone having a basic understanding of the workings of American government can tell you, that is how it stands … again, if you doubt that, a professor at any local jr. college can explain that to you, or even your local sheriff … you are not the first to be quite surprised at just how much power and authority a local sheriff has … much more than any appointed police chief or other appointed authority … the sheriff carries the full power of the legitimate government behind him/her, the power of the people, by the people and for the people!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    Rather than attempting to change the facts, working within them will provide much more results … like, finding an over-riding authority to back up your claims …

  168. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 9:34 pm #

    Not actually true. You can’t charge a sitting president with a crime.

    You have to impeach the president first. Then, once he or she becomes “just another American citizen,” that’s when you can bring any criminal charges.

    I refer you to the obvious example: Richard Nixon. After Nixon resigned and was no longer president, Ford pardoned him, to avoid just that little problem of having become “just another American citizen.”

    My personal experience with birthers that I know quite well is that they don’t understand how America actually works. This is one of the more frequent examples of misunderstanding our government’s functions.

    Winston Court: he may think the president of the USA is above the law, but, in the end, the president is just another American citizen, and is punishable under the law as any other.

  169. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 9:41 pm #

    Paper:
    Not actually true.You can’t charge a sitting president with a crime.

    You have to impeach the president first.Then, once he or she becomes “just another American citizen,” that’s when you can bring any criminal charges.

    I refer you to the obvious example:Richard Nixon.After Nixon resigned and was no longer president, Ford pardoned him, to avoid just that little problem of having become “just another American citizen.”

    My personal experience with birthers that I know quite well is that they don’t understand how America actually works.This is one of the more frequent examples of misunderstanding our government’s functions.

    WOW!

    You act like people are living in a dark closet, with no access to the outside world!

    Impeachment proceedings have already began against obama, you are just playing dumb, right?

    http://weeklyworldnews.com/politics/45122/obama-impeachment-hearings-begin/

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

    I’d say, there is much to keep an eye on …

  170. avatar
    Thrifty March 16, 2012 at 9:44 pm #

    I know what I said a few posts ago, but I have to ask, did our current troll just cite the Weekly World News as a source?

    Literally LOL.

  171. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 16, 2012 at 9:45 pm #

    Winston Court: a congressional investigation, followed by the removal and prosecution of obama, then a long term in prison, for obama, will fix all of his crimes

    What Congressional investigation, Winston? He’s been in office for three years and so far nothing.

    And what, in your opinion, would he be prosecuted for and by whom?

  172. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 9:47 pm #

    Beyond the photographs of George Bush and the alien, my favorite Weekly World News article was “Supercomputer talks to the dead!” showing a picture of an Amiga 1000.

    I’ve put you in moderation. If you have anything interesting to say, I’ll approve it. Otherwise, don’t bother.

    Winston Court: Impeachment proceedings have already began against obama, you are just playing dumb, right?

    http://weeklyworldnews.com/politics/45122/obama-impeachment-hearings-begin/

  173. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 9:49 pm #

    No, that was our former troll.

    Thrifty: did our current troll just cite the Weekly World News as a source?

  174. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 16, 2012 at 9:53 pm #

    Winston Court: Impeachment proceedings have already began against obama

    No, Winston, no proceedings have begun. Those happen before the Judiciary Committee and nothing is scheduled…..not even hearings on any resolutions of impeachment.

  175. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 9:56 pm #

    No, it doesn’t stand as evidence of a crime, capital letters notwithstanding. It’s not even evidence. It’s blather. It’s the same kind of “evidence” rejected by an actual court in Georgia. Just so you know, you won’t be the first to be surprised by how much power and authority a court has.

    I’m not surprised by sheriffs having power. I’m just a little bit surprised by pathetic sheriffs. I grew up in a corrupt town with a real powerful sheriff. I expect my venal sheriffs to be a bit more effective. I’ve never seen such a pathetic, weaseling performance by a sheriff.

    As for that overriding authority, that would be Hawaii. Again, see Article IV Section 1 of the U.S. constitution. That authority trumps sheriffs playing silly games with PDF files that are irrelevant because Hawaii not only says they provided authentic certificates, they provide slink to the PDF in question, verifying it. Thus, *preempting* nonsense about PDFs. Another word for “preempt” is prima facie evidence. That would be Hawaii’s certified and verified birth certificate. Full faith means preemption from nonsense, that being the whole point of this constitutional clause. To keep politics out of a smoothly functioning government and to keep politics from bringing the normal functions of a country to a halt.

    Talk of PDFs are childish games that are going nowhere ever. You would have to up your game and provide real actual proof (not fantasy league speculation, not mere accusation) that the state of Hawaii committed fraud; that they knew they were making up a story and printing a false birth certificate, etc. Good luck with that one! PDFs don’t even get you out of the gate.

    Perhaps you should go talk with that local jr. college professor. You might be surprised.

    Winston Court: Nothing “preempts” anything here!

    The current evidence, all of it presented, to date, stands in evidence of A CRIME.

    Until that is changed, until Arpaio calls a new news conference and explains his mistake, until a higher authority provides over-riding evidence, that is the conclusion.

    Again, anyone having a basic understanding of the workings of American government can tell you, that is how it stands … again, if you doubt that, a professor at any local jr. college can explain that to you, or even your local sheriff … you are not the first to be quite surprised at just how much power and authority a local sheriff has … much more than any appointed police chief or other appointed authority … the sheriff carries the full power of the legitimate government behind him/her, the power of the people, by the people and for the people!

    Rather than attempting to change the facts, working within them will provide much more results … like, finding an over-riding authority to back up your claims …

  176. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 16, 2012 at 10:00 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Beyond the photographs of George Bush and the alien, my favorite Weekly World News article was “Supercomputer talks to the dead!” showing a picture of an Amiga 1000.

    You must have missed the story in the current edition about Kim Kardashian’s “butt” exploding on a private flight to Las Vegas. Very sad.

  177. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 16, 2012 at 10:06 pm #

    Winston Court: you are not the first to be quite surprised at just how much power and authority a local sheriff has … much more than any appointed police chief or other appointed authority … the sheriff carries the full power of the legitimate government behind him/her, the power of the people, by the people and for the people!

    That may be the case in universe where you live but in this one, and in Arizona specifically, Arpaio and his deputies have no more power than any peace officer in the state.

    But it really doesn’t matter since he, and his civilian posse, haven’t identified any crimes or potential suspects. Other than that………………………

  178. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 10:08 pm #

    Paper:
    No, it doesn’t stand as evidence of a crime, capital letters notwithstanding.It’s not even evidence.It’s blather.It’s the same kind of “evidence” rejected by an actual court in Georgia.Just so you know, you won’t be the first to be surprised by how much power and authority a court has.

    I’m not surprised by sheriffs having power.I’m just a little bit surprised by pathetic sheriffs.I grew up in a corrupt town with a real powerful sheriff.I expect my venal sheriffs to be a bit more effective.I’ve never seen such a pathetic, weaseling performance by a sheriff.

    As for that overriding authority, that would be Hawaii.Again, see Article IV Section 1 of the U.S. constitution.That authority trumps sheriffs playing silly games with PDF files that are irrelevant because Hawaii not only says they provided authentic certificates, they provide slink to the PDF in question, verifying it.Thus, *preempting* nonsense about PDFs.Another word for “preempt” is prima facie evidence.That would be Hawaii’s certified and verified birth certificate.Full faith means preemption from nonsense, that being the whole point of this constitutional clause.To keep politics out of a smoothly functioning government and to keep politics from bringing the normal functions of a country to a halt.

    Talk of PDFs are childish games that are going nowhere ever.You would have to up your game and provide real actual proof (not fantasy league speculation, not mere accusation) that the state of Hawaii committed fraud; that they knew they were making up a story and printing a false birth certificate, etc.Good luck with that one!PDFs don’t even get you out of the gate.

    Perhaps you should go talk with that local jr. college professor.You might be surprised.

    You will find no argument from me there, indeed, I would go FAR BEYOND childish … as only a moron would post the fraudulent .PDF file on a whitehouse website and claim it to be his, some manufactured in a “photoshop app!” ROFLOL!!!

    But, that is what he did, and that is the evidence … made so by obama himself!

    But, a crime is a crime, and a sheriff has every right to declare a crime, when he finds one, indeed, it is his duty!

    But then, I am sure the FBI can do an investigation, and we will be anxious to hear those results!

    http://www.stockton.x10.mx

  179. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 10:26 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: “Supercomputer talks to the dead!” showing a picture of an Amiga 1000.

    TRS-80 maybe.

  180. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 10:28 pm #

    Winston Court: Impeachment proceedings have already began against obama, you are just playing dumb, right?

    Not because of anything related to his birth certificates and I doubt that these investigations or proceedings will go anywhere.
    But at least the proceedings have some foundation in fact as Obama indeed sent US forces to Libya. Of course,

  181. avatar
    Thrifty March 16, 2012 at 10:28 pm #

    I collected hard copies of the Weekly World News when I was a kid, back in the early 90s. I had a big stack of about 100 issues by the time I stopped. Throughout that time, they would print the exact same cover story, but with different dates, twice. I enjoyed setting the two issues side by side. “SECOND GREAT DEPRESSION PREDICTED MAY 1992” looked great next to “SECOND GREAT DEPRESSION PREDICTED FEBRUARY 1993”.

    I don’t remember any particularly memorable stories though. They were all so similar. You’d see “END TIMES PROPHECIES OF NOSTRADAMUS” and later “END TIMES PROPHECIES OF EDGAR CAYCE” then one time “END TIMES PROPHECIES OF HITLER”. I started wondering if anyone hadn’t published a series of end times prophecies.

    Around 1997 I decided I didn’t want them any more, so in lieu of throwing them away, I decided to put them in the grill and burn them. Dad was not happy when the weight of them broke the grill’s legs.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Beyond the photographs of George Bush and the alien, my favorite Weekly World News article was “Supercomputer talks to the dead!” showing a picture of an Amiga 1000.

    I’ve put you in moderation. If you have anything interesting to say, I’ll approve it. Otherwise, don’t bother.

  182. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 10:29 pm #

    Winston Court: But, a crime is a crime, and a sheriff has every right to declare a crime, when he finds one, indeed, it is his duty!

    But the Sheriff has not declared anything a crime. Certainly nothing his posse has found amounts to much of any crime which is of course why Arpaio will never file charges with the AG or DA.

    He is just hoping that the media would pick it up, or Congress. But neither fell for the ruse.

  183. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 10:31 pm #

    Winston Court: But then, I am sure the FBI can do an investigation, and we will be anxious to hear those results!

    Well, there will be no investigation as there is nothing to investigate. Sorry, I guess you have realized that the President is likely to be reelected and do anything to smear the office of the President, even if it involves lies or misrepresentations. Am I correct?

    So far I have seen no attempt by you to address my rebuttals of claims of fraud of the long form birth certificate..

    I understand good friend, I do understand.

  184. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 10:35 pm #

    Winston Court: I know you are joking

    I guess you do not believe in the Constitution then Makes perfect sense. But if you are, check out full faith and credit.

    Just saying…

    That the DOH has certified his birth on US soil means that the Courts will continue to rule that he is natural born and thus eligible. Now if there existed some evidence to the contrary but there is none.

    Certainly none that you have presented so far, other than pointing out that there are layers in a PDF, layers which are well understood as originating from the compression process…

    Nothing new here. And you wonder why noone is paying attention to Arpaio or the birthers? Perhaps though, the can become, yet again, the focus of another joke by Obama at this year’s dinner?
    What do you think…

  185. avatar
    J. Potter March 16, 2012 at 10:50 pm #

    justlw: I Love the ’80s.

    +1 for the awesome post, +10 for the I Love 80s shout-out! 😀

  186. avatar
    J. Potter March 16, 2012 at 11:15 pm #

    Winston Court: Why obama has used ~39 different Social Security cards to represent himself?

    I am 98.6% certain that the number in this meme is a variable … the value returned by this function (as written in Excel-ese)

    =(TODAY()-DATE(2009,1,20))/365.25*12*RANDBETWEEN(95,105)/100

    Or more simply: number of months Obama has been in office +/-5%

  187. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 11:27 pm #

    Winston: Why obama has used ~39 different Social Security cards to represent himself?

    President Obama has consistently used only one ssn… Why are you lying?

  188. avatar
    gorefan March 16, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

    Winston Court: The next logical step would be to have a prosecutor examine all the evidence gleaned by the authorities and make a decision on if there is valid reason to prosecute, or not.

    This step will not happen. Arpaio knows if he gives this to a DA that then the DA’s investigators will be required to look at and confirm the evidence. For example, one of the first things the DA will do is contact the Hawaiian Attorney General and get verification that the information on the BC is correct. This is a step that Arpaio did not take. Arpaio cannot allow the investigation to get out of the hands of his investigators, so he will not give it to anyone.If that happens the whole investigation falls apart.

    He said as much in the press conference, ‘i don’t know what I will do with it’. Really, a sheriff who doesn’t know what to do with a criminal investigation.

  189. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 11:37 pm #

    gorefan: He said as much in the press conference, i don’t know what I will do with it’. Really, a sheriff who doesn’t know what to do with a criminal investigation.

    Al and Winston do not realize that they have been played for fools. Worse, they let themselves be played. Ignorance and fear…

  190. avatar
    Winston Court March 16, 2012 at 11:57 pm #

    NBC: Al and Winston do not realize that they have been played for fools. Worse, they let themselves be played. Ignorance and fear…

    LOL … I am not the one wishing the crime would just disappear, I am the one saying IT WON’T!

    It will take awhile, but it should, things like impeachment, the disgracing of a president, branding him as a common criminal, etc. should take awhile … I think everyone is hoping he will explain it, so things won’t have to happen … but, we will see …

    [repetitive URL deleted. Click on Winston’s name next to the post to find his URL. Doc]

    Like I said, the wheels of justice turn slowly … everyone was just laughing, now the president has been declared at the center of a crime, with the evidence on a whitehouse website! This is shockingly serious!

  191. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 17, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    Birthers have been saying “any day now” for three and a half years. It’s part of the background noise. Means nothing.

    Winston Court: It will take awhile, but it should, things like impeachment, the disgracing of a president, branding him as a common criminal, etc. should take awhile

  192. avatar
    Winston Court March 17, 2012 at 12:21 am #

    For your viewing entertainment pleasure, the video discusses the fraudulent Selective Service Card of obamas’.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CHAM3hRI8_Y

  193. avatar
    nbc March 17, 2012 at 12:33 am #

    Winston Court: LOL … I am not the one wishing the crime would just disappear, I am the one saying IT WON’T!

    I am saying, there is no crime, you have been fooled.

    Any time now I am sure… Let’s talk in a few months so you can admit I was right.

    ROTFL

    Look Winston, nothing is happening, no investigation ever took place, no crimes were committed, no findings by Arpaio that amount to anything, no follow up, no indictments, no investigations, no impeachments.

    You have been had.

    Poor Winston. In his ignorance and fear he has allowed hatred to overwhelm his ability to apply logic and reason. Instead he is believing in fairy tails.

    Arpaio betrayed you… I am sorry to be the bearer of the news, but someone should.

    In the mean time, I am awaiting your rebuttals of my findings on the layers…

    Somehow I doubt we will hear more of you in this area other than continued ignorance.

    Fine with me.

  194. avatar
    nbc March 17, 2012 at 12:35 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Birthers have been saying “any day now” for three and a half years. It’s part of the background noise. Means nothing.

    Indeed, and instead we now see courts pronouncing President Obama to be a natural born citizen, citing US v Wong Kim Ark and rejecting the birthers’ appeal to Minor.

    No wonder that some have to hold to falsehoods and myths in the hope that ‘any time now’ the ‘evil Obama’ will be removed.

    Ah…

  195. avatar
    richCares March 17, 2012 at 12:39 am #

    azcentral.com, an Arizona News Site, put up a carictature of Sheffif Joe and captioned it “we examined this image carefully and it’s an obvious fake” – good laugh:
    http://i.azcentral.com/commphotos/view/565018.jpg
    Sheriff Joe is a joke in Arizona, funny.

  196. avatar
    Paper March 17, 2012 at 12:47 am #

    No crime to disappear. nothing to explain.

    Winston Court: LOL … I am not the one wishing the crime would just disappear, I am the one saying IT WON’T!

    … I think everyone is hoping he will explain it, so things won’t have to happen … but, we will see …

  197. avatar
    aarrgghh March 17, 2012 at 12:55 am #

    NBC: Al and Winston do not realize that they have been played for fools. Worse, they let themselves be played. Ignorance and fear …

    one of the most telling exchanges in shurf joe’s dog and posse show:

    ARPAIO: “… we haven’t accused anyone out of the white house, the president, we haven’t accused anyone of anything.”

    REPORTER: “it doesn’t just happen for no reason, though. i mean, you know, none of us are stupid in this room. there must be a reason. if this is true, and the president wanted his birth certificate and selective service card forged, and if this is fraud, what do you think should happen?”

    arpaio, corsi and wnd know that their intended audience is profoundly stupid, as well as painfully desperate for validation. they’re counting on it. grifters give their marks only what they want them to have and then let the suckers go where the conmen won’t. the marks hear what they want to hear. the ringmasters wave their wands and say “this looks suspicious”. the trained seals bark “guilty!!!” the ringmasters say “something must be done about this”. the seals bark “death!!!” the ringmasters say “i need you help”. and the seals happily slam their shiny little noses on the paypal button again and again …

  198. avatar
    nbc March 17, 2012 at 1:01 am #

    richCares: Sheriff Joe is a joke in Arizona, funny.

    An obvious fake indeed.

  199. avatar
    Monkey Boy March 17, 2012 at 2:50 am #

    @Winston Court

    Greetings, Stupid Bubblehead. How was your holiday in Oslo? Did you get ravished by sex-starved Muslims? No…I thought not.

    Can’t say that it was good to see you, though; I’ve sat through this movie before.

    For any that are interested, this sounds just like a gratewire troll who uses the handle Stubborn Bubble. She/it spams the forum with all sorts of anti-Obama links–the wackier, the better. Just to annoy Obots.

  200. avatar
    justlw March 17, 2012 at 3:30 am #

    Winston Court: For your viewing entertainment pleasure, the video discusses the fraudulent Selective Service Card of obamas’.

    Sorry, just not worth my while to respond any more unless it’s a link to a genuine Mexican site. Everything else is just corn syrup now.

  201. avatar
    Scientist March 17, 2012 at 9:17 am #

    Let’s pretend everything Sheriff Joe alleges is true. The forgeries alleged are of a Hawaiian document and a federal document. The forgeries were not done in Arizona nor posted on the web in Arizona, nor used in Arizona to obtain anything. There is no jurisdiction for Sheriff Joe. It would be like him investigating whether I ran a stop sign in New York yesterday. I didn’t, but even if I did, there is no jurisdictiion for an Arizona sheriff.

  202. avatar
    Paper March 17, 2012 at 9:35 am #

    My word against yours buddy! 🙂 You almost ran me over while I was jaywalking, which I wasn’t, but even I did, there aren’t enough Arizona sheriffs to deal with jaywalking New Yorkers, as much as they all crave to show just how far their jurisdiction goes. Actually, I confess. I did contact Sheriff Arpaio about you, and he just harrumphed at me that “somebody should do something.”

    Scientist:
    …It would be like him investigating whether I ran a stop sign in New York yesterday.I didn’t, but even if I did, there is no jurisdictiion for an Arizona sheriff.

  203. avatar
    Feinne March 17, 2012 at 11:17 am #

    Actually this has led me to think through something interesting:

    So, what if the Birth Certificate (or indeed any such document) was in fact a forgery but was being given Full Faith and Credit by a US state? Is there even Constitutional remedy for such an event? Can any agency that actually has jurisdiction even legally investigate it?

  204. avatar
    Sef March 17, 2012 at 11:41 am #

    Feinne:
    Actually this has led me to think through something interesting:

    So, what if the Birth Certificate (or indeed any such document) was in fact a forgery but was being given Full Faith and Credit by a US state? Is there even Constitutional remedy for such an event? Can any agency that actually has jurisdiction even legally investigate it?

    Contrary to some comments here, I don’t think it’s true the the Federal Government is required to honor the FF&C clause. Witness the fact that they can tell states what form their BCs must take to get a passport.

  205. avatar
    Keith March 17, 2012 at 11:51 am #

    Sef: Contrary to some comments here, I don’t think it’s true the the Federal Government is required to honor the FF&C clause. Witness the fact that they can tell states what form their BCs must take to get a passport.


    Article IV
    Section 1.

    Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

    Emphasis mine.

  206. avatar
    Sef March 17, 2012 at 11:55 am #

    Keith, since you are in OZ, can you please explain why their $2 coin is smaller than their $1 coin and appears to be made of the same material?

  207. avatar
    Keith March 17, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

    They are cheap that way?

    Actually, I think it was worry that the next size up could have been too easily confused with the 20cent piece by blind folks.

    Also, the 2 dollar coin is thicker than the 1 dollar coin.

  208. avatar
    Sef March 17, 2012 at 12:12 pm #

    Keith:
    They are cheap that way?

    Actually, I think it was worry that the next size up could have been too easily confused with the 20cent piece by blind folks.

    Also, the 2 dollar coin is thicker than the 1 dollar coin.

    Thanks for the insight.

  209. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 17, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    There are two legitimate requirements that the Federal Government has in qualifying a document for passport purposes. First they have to know that it really is a state-issued birth certificate — something that involves anti-counterfeiting standards. Full faith and credit can’t be extended to a forgery. The second requirement is information content. The government may give full and faith to the record, but if the record omits information necessary to make the passport eligibility decision then it’s not useful. That’s like someone submitting a state drivers license to get a passport when it doesn’t say where the person was born.

    I don’t make full faith and credit arguments myself because I think they are unnecessary.

    Sef: Contrary to some comments here, I don’t think it’s true the the Federal Government is required to honor the FF&C clause. Witness the fact that they can tell states what form their BCs must take to get a passport.

  210. avatar
    Monkey Boy March 17, 2012 at 6:09 pm #

    Feinne:
    Actually this has led me to think through something interesting:

    So, what if the Birth Certificate (or indeed any such document) was in fact a forgery but was being given Full Faith and Credit by a US state? Is there even Constitutional remedy for such an event? Can any agency that actually has jurisdiction even legally investigate it?

    Think about it!

    If it is a forgery, then it was not produced by an authorized agency or office. That’s why the President’s birth certification documents cannot be forgeries–they were produced by an authorized entity. The Lukas Smith POSKBC is a forgery because it was produced by an unauthorized person or persons.

    Of course, we know that an authorized agency of a state cannot output a “forgery” because its outputs are by statute deemed valid. Your motor vehicle bureau cannot issue a forged driver’s license.

  211. avatar
    Rickey March 17, 2012 at 6:54 pm #

    Sef: Contrary to some comments here, I don’t think it’s true the the Federal Government is required to honor the FF&C clause. Witness the fact that they can tell states what form their BCs must take to get a passport.

    The Federal Government has to accept the authenticity of a state-issued birth certificate. At the same time, though, it could rule that the birth certificate is not sufficient for the purpose for which it has been offered. Authentic does not necessarily equal sufficient.

  212. avatar
    Paper March 18, 2012 at 12:00 am #

    Interesting. I myself have made full faith and credit arguments, in part because I find it useful to use the constitution itself when certain people get all constitutionally righteous. But this is an interesting point, Dr. C, because of course the birth certificate itself is unnecessary, just effective, convenient, and efficient. Also, if it is authentic, then it it is authentic, period. If inauthentic, then inauthentic, and as you say, full faith and credit doesn’t apply.

    Full faith and credit is, I think, a kind of safety feature to keep politics from derailing the normal flow of governmental affairs, especially between rival states (say, Arizona sheriffs trying to make hay against Hawaii). As such, it also emphasizes that a state cannot just refuse another state, and only accept LFBC’s for instance. It raises the bar and adds a useful touch of finality. States don’t get to second guess or ignore each other. And birthers don’t just get to write off Hawaii. They can’t just discredit Hawaii. They are *required* to accept Hawaii’s *authority,* within constitutional and legal limits, to say what is so. Thus, an authentic b.c. is prima facie evidence. Birthers don’t get to say it is not good enough.

    Strictly speaking, none of this is necessary, however, which is an interestingly telling point.

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    I don’t make full faith and credit arguments myself because I think they are unnecessary.

  213. avatar
    Keith March 18, 2012 at 1:40 am #

    Paper: Full faith and credit is, I think, a kind of safety feature to keep politics from derailing the normal flow of governmental affairs, especially between rival states

    Discussion of the history and application of FF&C at Cornell University Legal Information Institute: Annotated Constitution

  214. avatar
    y_p_w March 18, 2012 at 2:38 am #

    Xyxox:
    Heck, I have a stamped and certified copy of my long form birth certificate from when I was born. DHS would not accept that when I applied for a passport because “these original forms from that long ago are easy to forge”. I had to get a COLB from the state of my birth in order to get a passport!

    Theoretically, a government issued birth certificate issued any time should be acceptable as long as it carries some sort of official seal such as an embossed stamping. There are certain exceptions where there have been known issues with fraud. There are California abstracts (never had the seal), Texas forms (midwife registration fraud in the border regions), Puerto Rican theft of BCs (that’s an interesting story), and even some county in New Jersey where some employee sold read birth certificates under the table for people who wanted to use them for identity theft. That NJ county no longer issues birth certificates and most agencies know specifically that those are not to be accepted. Anyone needing birth certificates can get them from the state or perhaps the city of birth if that city issues birth certificate.

    There are some old certificates that do contain all the required elements for passport applications. A lot of those didn’t even contain a reproduction of the registrar’s signature. The registrar would typically sign each copy in some offices.

    Also – US passports are issued by the State Department’s Bureau of Consular Affairs. DHS isn’t in the passport business. Yet.

  215. avatar
    Winston Court March 18, 2012 at 12:11 pm #

    Paper:
    Interesting.I myself have made full faith and credit arguments, in part because I find it useful to use the constitution itself when certain people get all constitutionally righteous. But this is an interesting point, Dr. C, because of course the birth certificate itself is unnecessary, just effective, convenient, and efficient.Also, if it is authentic, then it it is authentic, period.If inauthentic, then inauthentic, and as you say, full faith and credit doesn’t apply.

    Full faith and credit is, I think, a kind of safety feature to keep politics from derailing the normal flow of governmental affairs, especially between rival states (say, Arizona sheriffs trying to make hay against Hawaii).As such, it also emphasizesthat a state cannot just refuse another state, and only accept LFBC’s for instance. It raises the bar and adds a useful touch of finality.States don’t get to second guess or ignore each other.And birthers don’t just get to write off Hawaii.They can’t just discredit Hawaii.They are *required* to accept Hawaii’s *authority,* within constitutional and legal limits, to say what is so.Thus, an authentic b.c. is prima facie evidence.Birthers don’t get to say it is not good enough.

    Strictly speaking, none of this is necessary, however, which is an interestingly telling point.

    It is simply sheriffs’ jobs to find crimes, since the fraudulent document is such a crime, and determined to be by a sheriff, citizens have nothing to do with this. The citizens part was to point out suspicious activity and potential crimes, to an authority — the citizens did their part, now things are in a whole ‘nother level!

    When their is evidence of a crime, authorities don’t get to just ignore the crime(s), they have taken oaths to uphold the law — anything less is simply criminal on their parts.

    So, logic demands, that until such time as this ceases to be a crime, authorities, who have taken oaths to protect the people and investigate/prosecute crimes, will be doing so — or else NOT doing their jobs, and in that regard could be considered to be aiding and abetting the criminals they would ignore. This is simply the way American law and justice works …

    This is NOT rocket science … folks!

  216. avatar
    richCares March 18, 2012 at 4:52 pm #

    “This is NOT rocket science … folks!”
    it certainly appears so for you.

  217. avatar
    Scientist March 18, 2012 at 5:46 pm #

    Winston Court: It is simply sheriffs’ jobs to find crimes,

    In their JURISDICTION. A document on a federal government web site in Washington DC is NOT a crime in Maricopa County or in Arizona. Are there no unsolved murders, rapes or robberies in Maricopa Country? We know for a fact there are. It certainly seems that Sheriff Joe failed to pursue a bunch of sexual assaults. Yet, he has time to investigate stuff that happened 2,500 miles away.

  218. avatar
    G March 18, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

    And since the Sheriff has NOT made any actual effort to pursue any actual charges, any reasonable person can conclude that his show was nothing but a blusterous smear with no real teeth to it.

    Therefore, anyone who is NOT a fool realizes it is just a sham and there is no actual crime and nothing will come of it…

    Winston Court: When their is evidence of a crime, authorities don’t get to just ignore the crime(s), they have taken oaths to uphold the law — anything less is simply criminal on their parts.
    So, logic demands, that until such time as this ceases to be a crime, authorities, who have taken oaths to protect the people and investigate/prosecute crimes, will be doing so — or else NOT doing their jobs, and in that regard could be considered to be aiding and abetting the criminals they would ignore. This is simply the way American law and justice works …
    This is NOT rocket science … folks!

  219. avatar
    Paper March 18, 2012 at 9:54 pm #

    Only from what I read, and my observations of his press conference, I get the sense that you seem to be describing Sheriff Arpaio here. Someone who is not doing his job.

    Winston Court: or else NOT doing their jobs, and in that regard could be considered to be aiding and abetting the criminals they would ignore.

  220. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 18, 2012 at 9:58 pm #

    I think that this a very important point. Until such time as some charge is filed against some person, nothing officially happened in Arizona. Let’s assume some wild scenario that the “person of interest” was living in Arizona at the time he supposedly forged the President’s birth certificate; even then, they wouldn’t bring charges because they would lose the case and that would make them look like bigger fools than they are now.

    G: And since the Sheriff has NOT made any actual effort to pursue any actual charges, any reasonable person can conclude that his show was nothing but a blusterous smear with no real teeth to it.

  221. avatar
    Paper March 18, 2012 at 9:58 pm #

    To just follow up and add, this issue is precisely the one for which Sheriff Arpaio himself is already under investigation.

    Winston Court: When their is evidence of a crime, authorities don’t get to just ignore the crime(s), they have taken oaths to uphold the law — anything less is simply criminal on their parts.

  222. avatar
    Paper March 18, 2012 at 10:04 pm #

    Cool. Thanks.

    Keith: Discussion of the history and application of FF&C at Cornell University Legal Information Institute: Annotated Constitution

  223. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 18, 2012 at 10:06 pm #

    Sorry, is somebody prosecuting somebody for something? Are my Google alerts broken? No one at the Maricopa County Sheriff’s office is investigating anyone for faking the President’s birth certificate either. The “posse” is just a group volunteers from a non-profit educational organization that the Sheriff sponsors. If any of the real law-enforcement folks in Arizona are investigating (and I doubt that they are), it has not been reported?

    If this whole thing was not a witch hunt, then why did Arpaio go to so much trouble to emphasize that no tax-payer funds were involved?

    Winston Court: So, logic demands, that until such time as this ceases to be a crime, authorities, who have taken oaths to protect the people and investigate/prosecute crimes, will be doing so — or else NOT doing their jobs, and in that regard could be considered to be aiding and abetting the criminals they would ignore. This is simply the way American law and justice works

  224. avatar
    G March 18, 2012 at 11:08 pm #

    Exactly! As you pointed out in another post, Arpaio has gone out of his way to try to emphasize that NO taxpayer money is being spent on this…

    Even MORE telling to me is that the MOST emphetic display made by Arpaio at his “press conference” was doing his best to AVOID making any “actual accusations” when repeatedly confronted by reporters…

    …and THAT is the biggest TELL of all…

    Dr. Conspiracy: I think that this a very important point. Until such time as some charge is filed against some person, nothing officially happened in Arizona. Let’s assume some wild scenario that the “person of interest” was living in Arizona at the time he supposedly forged the President’s birth certificate; even then, they wouldn’t bring charges because they would lose the case and that would make them look like bigger fools than they are now.

  225. avatar
    ron March 20, 2012 at 6:09 pm #

    as a retired Marine,it is still really sad that people like winston are poisoning the minds of young men in the military who have enough to worry about with a war going on, yet they still are wrapped up in groupthink , I thought the Lakin stuff would end the crap for military refusing to respect the president.I read military times today and see servicemen still saying they believe this birther crap. The president needs to issue an order putting an end to this mess for the military. disavow this mess or face an immediate discharge and 30 days in the brig with a OTH discharge. for those that don’t want to serve under the sitting president get out, the force needs trimming anyway so volunteer to leaveand do us all a favor.

  226. avatar
    JPotter March 20, 2012 at 6:35 pm #

    ron: disavow this mess or face an immediate discharge and 30 days in the brig with a OTH discharge. for those that don’t want to serve under the sitting president get out, the force needs trimming anyway so volunteer to leaveand do us all a favor.

    But they don’t want to leave, they want a new President! You know, to continue having the cake they just ate.

    I still can’t find anything about political preference, etc., in that Oath of Enlistment. Will keep looking. 😉

  227. avatar
    misha March 20, 2012 at 6:39 pm #

    ron: The president needs to issue an order putting an end to this mess for the military. disavow this mess or face an immediate discharge and 30 days in the brig with a OTH discharge.

    Ron: Thank you. I have often said Lakin should have tried that in the IDF.

    I did my share of night duty patrolling the kibbutz perimeter, with an Uzi and walkie-talkie. I can assure you, it was not fun.

    Everyone here knows me as a jokester. One time, Syria was firing mortars over the border. Then came my turn to make a mad dash to the storehouse to get kitchen supplies.When I got back to the kitchen, I said “Second time around.” Everyone asked what it meant, so I told them about that scene in “A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum,” written by the Jewish playwright Stephen Sondheim.

    “How can you make a joke about this?”

  228. avatar
    G March 20, 2012 at 7:56 pm #

    I would fully support that. There should be ZERO tolerance of such open discord and political sniping from within the military structure.

    ron: The president needs to issue an order putting an end to this mess for the military. disavow this mess or face an immediate discharge and 30 days in the brig with a OTH discharge. for those that don’t want to serve under the sitting president get out, the force needs trimming anyway so volunteer to leaveand do us all a favor.