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Corsi, Cold Case Posse INS search looking pretty stupid about now

photo of Jerome CorsiSheriff Joe Arpaio’s Cold Case Posse let Jerome Corsi do one thing for them (besides copying his book for their report), and he screwed it up.

The Maricopa County press conference had everyone riveted to their seat as the story of Jerome Corsi’s search through the National Archives was told, the story of a search of INS documents collected on inbound international passengers in Honolulu. A thrill went through the birthers as it was said that the records for one week were missing, the week following Barack Obama’s birth. Did someone get to the National Archives?

Of course, I’ve been saying since the beginning that the search was stupid because flights from Kenya all came through New York and that’s where Corsi should have been looking. But frankly I had no idea how stupid what he did was until now. You see, there was not one single US citizen arriving from Kenya by air into the United States between July 1, 1961 and June 30, 1962. None, zip, nada. Corsi could have looked until the cows came home and he wouldn’t have found anything. Something that never existed cannot be missing.

For details on the INS report, see Born in Africa myth crushed under weight of its complexity.

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194 Responses to Corsi, Cold Case Posse INS search looking pretty stupid about now

  1. avatar
    misha March 25, 2012 at 12:40 am #

    Is Corsi wearing pink underwear?

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 12:58 am #

    I don’t know about the underwear, but you might note the Confederate flag pin.

    misha: Is Corsi wearing pink underwear?

  3. avatar
    misha March 25, 2012 at 1:16 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t know about the underwear, but you might note the Confederate flag pin.

    Why am I not surprised?

  4. avatar
    red-diaper baby 1942 March 25, 2012 at 1:46 am #

    Doc, there’s a typo in your post that really makes a lot of sense: Many Americans indeed seem nowadays to be “untied”, or perhaps better “untethered” — untethered to any sense of reality. Reality about the environment, about science, about the role of religion in a modern society … one might say about the difference between fact, myth and wishful thinking. Sometimes I despair of my country.

  5. avatar
    richCares March 25, 2012 at 1:55 am #

    I would love to see Corsi in court under cross examination, I’d pay for that, unlikely though.

  6. avatar
    misha March 25, 2012 at 2:14 am #

    red-diaper baby 1942: Reality about the environment, about science, about the role of religion in a modern society … one might say about the difference between fact, myth and wishful thinking. Sometimes I despair of my country.

    Lani Guinier is Afro-Judeo and a red diaper baby: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lani_Guinier
    I have a cousin who is Afro-Judeo. Someone on one of these threads called me a “beach blanket Bolshevik.” I was laughing at that. I’ve also been called a limousine liberal .

    “Sometimes I despair of my country.” We’re having a contest with Germany and Austria, over who can produce the most crackpots. Ben Gurion was an atheist.

    Milton Rogovin had a career path and politics like mine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Rogovin

  7. avatar
    misha March 25, 2012 at 2:15 am #

    red-diaper baby 1942: about the role of religion in a modern society

    Hitchens was right.

  8. avatar
    red-diaper baby 1942 March 25, 2012 at 2:41 am #

    Misha, I’m glad you know what a “red-diaper baby” is; sometimes I wonder how many younger people recognize the term. I was born in 1942, into a family that can conveniently be described in terms of the stereotype of “New York Jewish Upper West Side intellectual radical”. Also what was then known to the FBI as “prematurely anti-Fascist”, which I’ve always considered one of the most ludicrous concepts in a long history of American ludicrosity; in other words, they defended the Republican (i.e. legitimate) side in the Spanish Civil War and opposed Nazism in Germany before it was the “correct” thing to do in the US.
    This might be considered irrelevant on a blog devoted to Obama conspiracy theories, but I don’t believe it is: the forces of darkness confronting us may have changed their specific shape, but they share their principal characteristic, which I would describe as chronic and persistent obscurantism and a denial of reality. Whether in the form of Mr. Santorum, of Ms. Taitz and her cohorts, of Mr. Limbaugh, and many many others.

  9. avatar
    misha March 25, 2012 at 2:55 am #

    red-diaper baby 1942: into a family that can conveniently be described in terms of the stereotype of “New York Jewish Upper West Side intellectual radical”.

    For me, it was the Lower East Side.

  10. avatar
    Jee March 25, 2012 at 4:52 am #

    Since when was it accepted that anyone born in USA, even to alien parents, is considered natural born citizen? You would think the forefathers made the clause to prevent the slightest possibility of a foreign influence over the highest office in the United States.
    This logic, would literally allow the possibility of say, Adolf Hitler could of had relations with a American woman who moved back to America, having undercover SS protection. Educate the young man and if he had enough money to pay for ads and votes, he could become President of the United States, Does anyone seriously like the fact of the possibility? Replace Hitler with Napoleon since he was around during our fore fathers. Geez.
    You know, before the 2008 election there was 8 attempts to change the ” natural born citizen” wording for the clause.

    How could a public office that our fore fathers intended to have no possible influence from outside America, be open to someone who was born with dual citizenship which would mean his doesn’t have a absolute 100% allegiance to the united states that our fore fathers intended for the office of President.

    Please explain to it to me, i’m confused and not sure what to make of these citizenship laws as i’ve been researching this matter for a year now. Since when was it possible, that a citizen is a natural born citizen? i must of missed the congress memo on that, please hook it up and help me out here.

    ~ Confused American

  11. avatar
    DP March 25, 2012 at 6:02 am #

    Obviously, all the INS records from that period have been forged.

    I bet if you scan them they have layers.

    And, after all, what’s to have kept the Dunhams from digging through the center of the earth to enter Kenya via China? If I had a racist reptile brain, that would make sense to me.

  12. avatar
    Majority Will March 25, 2012 at 6:46 am #

    Corsi has had extensive practice in looking stupid:

    “Jerome R. Corsi and Craig R. Smith expose the fraudulent science that has been sold to the American people in order to enslave them — the belief that oil is a fossil fuel and a finite resource. On the contrary, this book presents authoritative research, currently known mostly in the scientific community, that oil is not a product of decaying dinosaurs and prehistoric forests. Rather, it is a natural product of the Earth. The scientific evidence cited by Corsi and Smith suggests that oil is constantly being produced by the Earth, far below the planet’s surface, and that it is brought to attainable depths by the centrifugal forces of the Earth’s rotation.”

    – inside flap of Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Corsi#Black_Gold_Stranglehold)

  13. avatar
    DP March 25, 2012 at 7:42 am #

    Thanks for the tip. I found the first review of “Black Gold” quite amusing:

    “I bought this book looking forward to reading evidence that oil came from a geophysical process rather than biological. I still hope that is true, but this author has almost completely convinced me against it.

    I’ve never read a book with so many mathematical errors. I’ll give a few examples of the many that exist. There’s a section from page 72-78. Throughout this section, the author uses million, billion and trillion interchangeably as if they were the same number. On page 83 he states that carbon dioxide makes up one tenth of one percent of the atmosphere. On page 85 he states that it makes up a full one percent. He then procedes to do some calculations that are off by a factor of 10. On page 103 he mentions how much carbon various countries are putting into the atmosphere. He says nothing as to time. Do they put this much out every day, year decade…who knows!

    The author’s main argument against his opposition is ‘They’re stupid because they don’t believe what I believe.’ He seems to think if he calls them stupid enough times in enough ways we’ll start to realize what a genius he is. One example of this: He says that big oil fields are being found in the ocean below two miles of water. He ridicules the bio-oil people mentioning what idiots they must be to believe that this area must once have been above water for dinosaurs to die on it and become oil. I wonder, did it ever cross his mind that bio-material is continuously falling to the bottom of the ocean by the billions of tons. The material would thicken, come under pressure (even more than the water provides) and over millions of years plate tectonics would move it deep into the mantle.

    He unashamedly says we should use all the oil we want. There’s an unlimited supply and man is stupid if he thinks he’s powerful enough to cause global warming. In one chapter he goes into depth explaining how great it is that we import a large part of our oil. It brings mutual international investment and interdependence. In this chapter he says the U.S. uses 20 million barrels a day getting 1.5M from Canada, 1.5M from Mexico and 1.5M from Saudi Arabia. The rest from other sources. In the next chapter he rails against importing oil. In his words, “We have never before in our history experienced this massive a transfer of our national wealth overseas.” etc… In this chapter we use 21M barrels a day. We get 1.72M from Canada, 1.75M from Mexico and 1.4M from the Saudis.

    In summary, this is one of the worst books I have ever read. He doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about and isn’t even consistent in his own words. Don’t waste your money buying this book. I wish I had read the other reviews before I did.”

  14. avatar
    Arthur March 25, 2012 at 8:12 am #

    Thanks Majority Will and DP for the amusing information on Jerome Corsi’s crackpot musings on oil. It seem that if you scratch the surface of a birther, you’re going to find a rich vein of crazy right to the core.

  15. avatar
    Majority Will March 25, 2012 at 8:34 am #

    Arthur:
    Thanks Majority Will and DP for the amusing information on Jerome Corsi’s crackpot musings on oil. It seem that if you scratch the surface of a birther, you’re going to find a rich vein of crazy right to the core.

    Quite fuelish.

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 8:47 am #

    Jee: Since when was it accepted that anyone born in USA, even to alien parents, is considered natural born citizen?

    That’s been the case since 1776.

    As you know, the US was founded by former English subjects. Under English common law, a person was a natural born subject by virtue of being born within the dominion of the King, whether their parents were subjects or foreigners.

    Historian George Bancroft, founder of the US Naval Academy at Annapolis, wrote in his History of the United States (this from the 1876 edition) about citizenship between the American Revolution and the adoption of the Constitution:

    The king of England claimed as his subjects all persons born within his dominions: in like manner every one who first saw the light on the American soil was a natural born American citizen; but the power of naturalization, which, under the king, each colony had claimed to regulate by its own laws, remained under the confederacy with the separate states.

    The Supreme Court in Smith v. Alabama said that the terms in the Constitution had to be understood in the language of the English common law WITH WHICH THE FOUNDERS WERE FAMILIAR.

    William Rawle, appointed by George Washington as US Attorney for Pennsylvania, wrote in his textbook on the Constitution in 1825:

    Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural-born citizen within the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity….

    Under the Constitution the question is settled by its express language, and when we are informed that, excepting those who were citizens, (however that capacity was acquired,) at the time the Constitution was adopted, no person is eligible to the office of the president unless he is a natural born citizen, the principle that the place of birth creates the relative quality is established as to us

    The same was made clear by Vice-chancellor Sandford of New York in a sweeping historical analysis of citizenship in the United States in the case of Lynch v. Clarke in 1844:

    By the common law, all persons born within the ligeance of the crown of England, were natural born subjects, without reference to the status or condition of their parents…

    The term citizen, was used in the constitution as a word, the meaning of which was already established and well understood. And the constitution itself contains a direct recognition of the subsisting common law principle, in the section which defines the qualification of the President. “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,” … The only standard which then existed, of a natural born citizen, was the rule of the common law, and no different standard has been adopted since. Suppose a person should be elected President who was native born, but of alien parents, could there be any reasonable doubt that he was eligible under the constitution? I think not.

    U. S. Attorney General under Abraham Lincoln, Edwin Bates issued an Attorney General Opinion that says:

    The Constitution itself does not make the citizens, (it is. in fact,made by them.) It only intends and recognizes such of them as are natural–”home-born–”and provides for the naturalization of such of them as were alien–”foreign-born–”making the latter, as far as nature will allow, like the former. …

    And our Constitution, in speaking of natural born citizens, uses no affirmative language to make them such, but only recognizes and reaffirms the universal principle, common to all nations, and as old as political society, that the people born in a country do constitute the nation, and, as individuals, are natural members of the body politic.

    And finally, Just this year Judge John A. Gibney, Jr., United States District Judge for the Eastern District for Virginia wrote, dismissing the case of Tisdale v. Obama wrote:

    It is well settled that those born in the United States are considered natural born citizens.

    So the answer is that persons born in the United States were its natural born citizens since the very beginning. I hope this clears up any confusion.

  17. avatar
    Zachary Bravos March 25, 2012 at 9:47 am #

    So a couple adopts a child who grows up, becomes a war hero, wins the Congressional Medal of Honor, becomes a senator, and at age 65 fathers a son. That son follows in his father’s footsteps, becomes a general, leads the USA in a war and saves the country. At age 65 the son runs for president of the United States. The birthers discover that the biological father of the candidate’s father, the child that was adopted 130 years before, was a citizen of England who fathered a child when he was 20 years old on a visit to the United States. So the candidate is not qualified to be president because he is not a natural born citizen. Makes sense to me.

  18. avatar
    Majority Will March 25, 2012 at 10:47 am #

    Jee: This logic, would literally allow the possibility of say, Adolf Hitler could of had relations with a American woman who moved back to America, having undercover SS protection. Educate the young man and if he had enough money to pay for ads and votes, he could become President of the United States, Does anyone seriously like the fact of the possibility? Replace Hitler with Napoleon since he was around during our fore fathers. Geez.

    What is ridiculous are racists and other bigots who believe mere blood relation determines and insures loyalties, politics and behaviors. Charles Manson, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy were all natural born citizens with American parents.

    “if he had enough money to pay for ads and votes, he could become President of the United States”

    Pay for votes? Nice morals you have there. Your fear of foreigners isn’t your biggest problem.

  19. avatar
    Stanislaw March 25, 2012 at 11:23 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    So the answer is that persons born in the United States were its natural born citizens since the very beginning. I hope this clears up any confusion.

    Trolls are always confused. My guess is that this particular troll will stay that way.

  20. avatar
    John Reilly March 25, 2012 at 11:33 am #

    It is interesting that after a year of research Jee missed all of that Doc. Jee asked where the “Congress memo” was on the subjuect. A simple Google search would produce the memo prepared by the Congressional research service.

    So, do not feed the trolls. You are too kind, Doc.

  21. avatar
    Obsolete March 25, 2012 at 11:40 am #

    Joe: “idered natural born citizen? You would think the forefathers made the clause to prevent the slightest possibility of a foreign influence over the highest office in the United States.”

    If this were true, why did they only require a President to have lived in the country a minimum of 14 years? To them, a 35 year old man who lived for 21 of those years in France was perfectly eligible.

  22. avatar
    nbc March 25, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    Jee: Since when was it accepted that anyone born in USA, even to alien parents, is considered natural born citizen?

    Pretty much from before the Republic to during the Revolution to after the founding of our Nation.

    Natural- Born was a concept that in our Nation clearly found its root in English Common Law.

    You’re welcome…

  23. avatar
    nbc March 25, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

    Jee: Since when was it possible, that a citizen is a natural born citizen?

    Not all citizens are natural born citizens… Citizens include natural-born and natural-ized and only the former are eligible for the office of the President. The latter, whose citizenship status is regulated by statute, are not eligible.

  24. avatar
    Lupin March 25, 2012 at 12:04 pm #

    Majority Will: “The scientific evidence cited by Corsi and Smith suggests that oil is constantly being produced by the Earth, far below the planet’s surface, and that it is brought to attainable depths by the centrifugal forces of the Earth’s rotation.”

    This suggests a whole new meaning for “scientific evidence”.

    Seriously, it ‘s appalling.

  25. avatar
    Lupin March 25, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

    Jee: Since when was it accepted that anyone born in USA, even to alien parents, is considered natural born citizen?

    Since forever.

    You should crawl from under that rock once in a while.

  26. avatar
    Joey March 25, 2012 at 12:54 pm #

    Jee:
    Since when was it accepted that anyone born in USA, even to alien parents, is considered natural born citizen? You would think the forefathers made the clause to prevent the slightest possibility of a foreign influence over the highest office in the United States.
    This logic, would literally allow the possibility of say, Adolf Hitler could of had relations with a American woman who moved back to America, having undercover SS protection. Educate the young man and if he had enough money to pay for ads and votes, he could become President of the United States, Does anyone seriously like the fact of the possibility? Replace Hitler with Napoleon since he was around during our fore fathers. Geez.
    You know, before the 2008 election there was 8 attempts to change the ” natural born citizen” wording for the clause.

    How could a public office that our fore fathers intended to have no possible influence from outside America, be open to someone who was born with dual citizenship which would mean his doesn’t have a absolute 100% allegiance to the united states that our fore fathers intended for the office of President.

    Please explain to it to me, i’m confused and not sure what to make of these citizenship laws as i’ve been researching this matter for a year now. Since when was it possible, that a citizen is a natural born citizen? i must of missed the congress memo on that, please hook it up and help me out here.

    ~ Confused American

    James Madison, a Founding Father and “the Father of the Constitution has an answer for you. Madison said, on the floor of the House of Representatives, “It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States; it will therefore be unnecessary to investigate any other.”–May 22, 1789

    You see, James Madison understood that the United States of America was then and would always be “a nation of immigrants.” People were arriving from every other part of the world and they became woven into the fabric of the American experiment in constitutional republican-democracy.

    The 14th Amendment to the Constituion put Madison’s words into the law of the land: “All persons BORN….” and several landmark Supreme Court decisions following ratification of the 14th Amendment underscored the point that where you were born matters much more than who your parents are.
    As recently as January of this year, specifically with regard to the natural born citizen status of Barack Hussein Obama II, US District Court Judge John A., Gibney ruled in Tisdale v Obama, et. al. that the President was indeed eligible to be on the 2012 ballot in Virigina because he is a natural born citizen. Judge Gibney said in his decision: “It is well settled that those born in the United States are considered natural born citizens. See, e.g., United States v. Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702 (1898) (“Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States.”); Perkins v. Elg, 99 F.2d 408, 409 (1938). Moreover, “those born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,’ … have been considered American citizens under American law in effect since the time of the founding … and thus eligible for the presidency.” Hollander v. McCain, 566 F. Supp. 2d 63, 66 (D.N.H 2008).

    Furthermore in 2009 the Indiana Court of Appeals ruled in Ankeny et. al. v Mitch Daniels, The Governor of Indiana that “…we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes regardless of the citizenship of their parents…”

    Somewhere James Madison is smiling for he knew that there wouldn’t even be an America were it not for the allegiance to the idea of America on the part of foreigners like the Frenchman, Marquis de Lafeyette (granted honorary American citizenship) and the Prussian Fredrick von Steuben, appointed by General Washington as Inspector General of the Continental Army while a natural born citizen like Benedict Arnold, turned out to be a traitor to America.

  27. avatar
    Jamese777 March 25, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

    Please explain to it to me, i’m confused and not sure what to make of these citizenship laws as i’ve been researching this matter for a year now. Since when was it possible, that a citizen is a natural born citizen? i must of missed the congress memo on that, please hook it up and help me out here.

    ~ Confused American
    —-
    Here’s a link to the Congressional Research Service report (a bit more detailed and well researched than a memo) that you inquired about:
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42097.pdf

  28. avatar
    Majority Will March 25, 2012 at 1:25 pm #

    From the early settlers to the massive influx of millions through Ellis Island and through to today, the United States of America is a nation of immigrants from all over the world.

    “Foreign influence” is poorly disguised code for an irrational fear of other cultures and a belief that cultural and physical differences in human racial groups justify discrimination.

  29. avatar
    elmo March 25, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

    You know, before the 2008 election there was 8 attempts to change the ” natural born citizen” wording for the clause.

    Yes, All of those attempts were to RELAX the requirements, many of them even allowing naturalized citizens (such as Arnold Schwartzenegger and Henry Kissinger…hmmm, both Republicans!) to be eligible for the presidency.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause#Proposed_constitutional_amendments

    Until the advent of DNA testing in the 20th century, there simply was no valid way to determine with certainty who a child’s real father was. Surely the founding fathers would not have made as a requirement for eligibility something that no one could prove.

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    A link to the CRS report is also found under Quick Reference, lower right, on every page on this web site.

    John Reilly: Jee asked where the “Congress memo” was on the subject.

  31. avatar
    John Woodman March 25, 2012 at 2:45 pm #

    Jee: Since when was it accepted that anyone born in USA, even to alien parents, is considered natural born citizen?

    Ever since there was a United States to be born in.

    But it actually goes back much further than that. The same rule has apparently applied since at least the 1400’s in England, and probably quite a bit further back. It was codified and solidified more in 1607 in Calvin’s Case, presided over by Lord Edward Coke.

    The same rule (and the United States Supreme Court explicitly affirms this in the 1898 case of United States v Wong Kim Ark applied in the original English colonies, in the United States after independence, and in the United States after the Constitution was established. Even both sides in the citizenship debate after the Civil War acknowledged this rule — at least in regard to aliens from any white European country. They disagreed on whether it applied to black folks.

    You may have read quotes from birthers that appear to contradict this. Such quotes are generally cherry-picked, taken out of context and/ or twisted in their meaning from what they actually meant.

    There is much more information available on this subject. The Congressional Research Service report is a good place to start. This blog is an excellent place to continue. Reality Check Radio at blogtalkradio has at least one entire 2-hour online radio broadcast on the subject. Finally, I have taken to writing a bit on the issue lately at my own blog.

    And if you would like to see how the claims that two citizen parents are required in order to make a natural born citizen stack up in a real debate on the issue, there’s been some open debate in the past few days with Mario Apuzzo, the most prominent person still claiming this theory, over here.

  32. avatar
    Rickey March 25, 2012 at 2:58 pm #

    Jee:
    Adolf Hitler could of had relations with a American woman who moved back to America, having undercover SS protection. Educate the young man and if he had enough money to pay for ads and votes, he could become President of the United States, Does anyone seriously like the fact of the possibility?

    Dear Confused,

    You make a good point, which is why I am calling for an investigation into rumors that Rick Santorum is the grandson of Benito Mussolini. Think about it – Il Duce came to power in 1922 and Santorum’s father, Aldo, was born in 1923 and then was mysteriously shipped off to the United States in 1930. When Mussolini was captured in 1945, he was only about 200 km from Aldo Santorum’s birthplace in Riva del Garda. Coincidence? Or did he expect to find a safe hiding place there? Who financed Aldo Santorum’s emigration? Santorum refuses to say, so what is he hiding? Why won’t he submit to DNA testing? He could put this to rest right away if he would be more transparent.

  33. avatar
    Stanislaw March 25, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    Jee:

    This logic, would literally allow the possibility of say, Adolf Hitler could of had relations with a American woman who moved back to America, having undercover SS protection. Educate the young man and if he had enough money to pay for ads and votes, he could become President of the United States, Does anyone seriously like the fact of the possibility? Replace Hitler with Napoleon since he was around during our fore fathers. Geez.

    Like a lot of birthers, you’re confusing eligibility with electability. Just because a person can run for office doesn’t mean that person will be elected to that office. That’s why we have elections in this country; no matter where you’re born or who your parents are, you still have to get a majority of the electoral college votes to become President.

  34. avatar
    Zachary Bravos March 25, 2012 at 4:03 pm #

    Do we know if Santorum’s father was naturalized and if so when? Please release your records!

  35. avatar
    Sef March 25, 2012 at 5:07 pm #

    Jee: This logic, would literally allow the possibility of say, Adolf Hitler could of had relations with a American woman who moved back to America, having undercover SS protection.

    In this case couldn’t a case be made that the child was not under the jurisdiction of the U.S., similar to the exclusion for ambassadors? If so, the child would not be NBC. Problem solved.

  36. avatar
    Thrifty March 25, 2012 at 5:20 pm #

    Too bad there’s that nasty little matter of the child having to be appealing enough to win an election.

    Jee: This logic, would literally allow the possibility of say, Adolf Hitler could of had relations with a American woman who moved back to America, having undercover SS protection. Educate the young man and if he had enough money to pay for ads and votes, he could become President of the United States

  37. avatar
    US Citizen March 25, 2012 at 5:39 pm #

    Rickey: Santorum refuses to say, so what is he hiding? Why won’t he submit to DNA testing? He could put this to rest right away if he would be more transparent.

    Zing! Powie! Zapf! Boff! Pow!

    (with apologies to Batman and Don Martin)

  38. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 25, 2012 at 6:18 pm #

    Jee:

    You said:

    You know, before the 2008 election there was 8 attempts to change the ” natural born citizen” wording for the clause.

    Please explain to it to me, i’m confused and not sure what to make of these citizenship laws as i’ve been researching this matter for a year now. Since when was it possible, that a citizen is a natural born citizen? i must of missed the congress memo on that, please hook it up and help me out here.

    ~ Confused American

    I have heard that “Congress tried to change the law” stuff over and over, along with a the scary youtube videos and blah blah blah. Sooo, I traced it down and the nonsense seemed to get a big boost from a July 2011 World Net Daily Internet Article based on the ravings of Rev. Carl Gallups.

    The problem for you and the Birthers is that those attempts mostly related to naturalized citizens and OBAMA WAS NOT A NATURALIZED CITIZEN. Sooo, they had doodly-squat to do with him. I just did a Internet Article on this rumor.

    Maybe you are confused because you are reading World Net Daily, who intentionally misleads its readers. If you want to stop being confused, stop reading that sort of silliness, and read here, or some of the “Good” websites listed here.

    You could probably also forget what you think you know, and just ask honest questions and then actually listen to the answers. This stuff really isn’t all that hard.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  39. avatar
    DP March 25, 2012 at 6:44 pm #

    Stanislaw: Like a lot of birthers, you’re confusing eligibility with electability. Just because a person can run for office doesn’t mean that person will be elected to that office. That’s why we have elections in this country; no matter where you’re born or who your parents are, you still have to get a majority of the electoral college votes to become President.

    You are absolutely correct. The birthers constantly repeat stuff like this, and it is completely stupid. It assumes that just because a person is eligible to be a candidate they will be elected no matter how far-fetched the scenario.

    And basically, the whole Manchurian candidate ruse is a tap directly into the xenophobic core. I find it so bizarre to hear all this crap about foreign taint at birth, as if the mere thought of someone of someone not 100% Red State American would have set the Founding Fathers to foaming at the mouth. It’s so ignorant and it’s reptile brain origins so transparent.

  40. avatar
    Northland10 March 25, 2012 at 7:02 pm #

    No foreign influence? Wasn’t Vattel a foreigner?

    Jee: You would think the forefathers made the clause to prevent the slightest possibility of a foreign influence

    Jee: How could a public office that our fore fathers intended to have no possible influence from outside America,

  41. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 25, 2012 at 7:09 pm #

    OMG!!! I just thought of a way the Birthers could actually have a really good chance to get to see the Long Form Birth Certificate. I am being TOTALLY serious here!!! Sure I reveal this,or should I go into hiding sooo nobody could get it out of my lips???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  42. avatar
    gorefan March 25, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I just thought of a way the Birthers could actually have a really good chance to get to see the Long Form Birth Certificate.

    Does it involve getting a medical degree, then a job at the DOH and working your way up to director?

  43. avatar
    Northland10 March 25, 2012 at 7:28 pm #

    Lupin: This suggests a whole new meaning for “scientific evidence”.

    I believe the word you want also begins with S, though is much shorter (or an M, si vous voulez).

  44. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 25, 2012 at 7:33 pm #

    gorefan: Does it involve getting a medical degree, then a job at the DOH and working your way up to director?

    No, I am being serious. It just came to me, and I don’t know whether to do a Internet Article on it, or just shut my mouth. Because even though it is screwy, I am almost positive that it would work. People here would laugh, but Birthers would do it in a second. I am sure they would.

    It is sooo out of left field that nobody has ever thought of it, and I am cursing my warped brain for thinking of it, but now that I have, I can’t stop thinking about it and the more I think the more sure I am it would work.

    It would almost be fun to watch the Birthers do it, but the thing is, they would probably win.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    gorefan: Does it involve getting a medical degree, then a job at the DOH and working your way up to director?

  45. avatar
    Paper March 25, 2012 at 7:33 pm #

    Not to mention, it hasn’t stopped us from having our share of doozies for president.

    DP: You are absolutely correct. The birthers constantly repeat stuff like this, and it is completely stupid. It assumes that just because a person is eligible to be a candidate they will be elected no matter how far-fetched the scenario.

    And basically, the whole Manchurian candidate ruse is a tap directly into the xenophobic core. I find it so bizarre to hear all this crap about foreign taint at birth, as if the mere thought of someone of someone not 100% Red State American would have set the Founding Fathers to foaming at the mouth. It’s so ignorant and it’s reptile brain origins so transparent.

  46. avatar
    misha March 25, 2012 at 7:42 pm #

    Rickey: Santorum’s father, Aldo, was born in 1923 and then was mysteriously shipped off to the United States in 1930.

    Aldo and his family fled Italy, because they were communists, and were marked by the Fascist Party.

  47. avatar
    misha March 25, 2012 at 7:50 pm #

    Lupin: This suggests a whole new meaning for “scientific evidence”. Seriously, it s appalling.

    Welcome to the public education system, courtesy of conservatives. Their goal is to destroy public schools.

  48. avatar
    gorefan March 25, 2012 at 8:05 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: No, I am being serious

    Go for it. There isn’t anything to hide.

  49. avatar
    donna March 25, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

    “Aldo and his family fled Italy, because they were communists, and were marked by the Fascist Party.”

    TRUE

    “the elder Santorum matriarch doesn’t understand why he has diverged so far from the family’s longtime political stance. “In Riva del Garda his grandfather Pietro and uncles were red communists’ to the core,”

    they said: “But if he wants to make it, he will have to soften some of his positions. To take a stand against homosexuality or to oppose divorce is harmful. Principles count, but in politics one must have the capacity to be open-minded.”

    “There are Santorums who would roll over in their graves to hear [Rick’s] rhetoric,”

  50. avatar
    Paper March 25, 2012 at 8:11 pm #

    But so they win, they get to see the records? So? What then? They give up and admit their error?

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    No, I am being serious. It just came to me, and I don’t know whether to do a Internet Article on it, or just shut my mouth. Because even though it is screwy, I am almost positive that it would work. People here would laugh, but Birthers would do it in a second. I am sure they would.

    It is sooo out of left field that nobody has ever thought of it, and I am cursing my warped brain for thinking of it, but now that I have, I can’t stop thinking about it and the more I think the more sure I am it would work.

    It would almost be fun to watch the Birthers do it, but the thing is, they would probably win.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  51. avatar
    gorefan March 25, 2012 at 8:16 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Corsi has had extensive practice in looking stupid:

    “Jerome R. Corsi and Craig R. Smith expose the fraudulent science that has been sold to the American people in order to enslave them — the belief that oil is a fossil fuel and a finite resource. On the contrary, this book presents authoritative research, currently known mostly in the scientific community, that oil is not a product of decaying dinosaurs and prehistoric forests. Rather, it is a natural product of the Earth. The scientific evidence cited by Corsi and Smith suggests that oil is constantly being produced by the Earth, far below the planet’s surface, and that it is brought to attainable depths by the centrifugal forces of the Earth’s rotation.”

    – inside flap of Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Corsi#Black_Gold_Stranglehold)

    They sound like followers of Thomas Gold.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold

  52. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 8:28 pm #

    I think, given the birther emphasis on blood, that we should demand a sample from Santorum to see if it is indeed red.

    donna: “the elder Santorum matriarch doesn’t understand why he has diverged so far from the family’s longtime political stance. “In Riva del Garda his grandfather Pietro and uncles were red communists’ to the core,”

  53. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 25, 2012 at 8:37 pm #

    Paper:
    But so they win, they get to see the records?So?What then?They give up and admit their error?

    There will be a lot of suits. I just talked to my BFF Fabia Sheen, Esq., a lawyer, and she rotflhao, and said that it would work. It would be fun to watch, because it is sooo far out, but I want to be sure that I am not crossing over into immoral territory. But, the Birthers would get their document.

    Now, would they believe it once they got it??? The way this would work, they would have little choice.

    I think I need to pray first.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  54. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 8:50 pm #

    Generally the State Health Director is a political appointmentment, and I think (although I’m not certain) that the person who fills the job is not usually a career DOH employee.

    gorefan: Does it involve getting a medical degree, then a job at the DOH and working your way up to director?

  55. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 8:59 pm #

    I did a detailed analysis of one of those videos in my article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/06/slick-video-9-lies-in-45-seconds/

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I have heard that “Congress tried to change the law” stuff over and over, along with a the scary youtube videos and blah blah blah. Sooo, I traced it down and the nonsense seemed to get a big boost from a July 2011 World Net Daily Internet Article based on the ravings of Rev. Carl Gallups.

  56. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 25, 2012 at 9:02 pm #

    “You could probably also forget what you think you know, and just ask honest questions and then actually listen to the answers. This stuff really isn’t all that hard.”
    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Thank You for that! I’ve been looking for a trustworthy 0b0t/anti-Birther site where the creed is “Honest Answers to Honest Questions”.

    Here’s mine:

    Unless you’ve been hibernation in a cave for the last 4 years everyone following American politics is aware of the almost 4 years of controversies surrounding 0bama’s documents/records. On just the birth record(s) we have an ongoing conflict where on 1 side are those who say “I believe” based on officials having told them what was released are true copies of the original(s) on file at the HDoH. On the other side of this issue, based on years of investigating, are those that say “I believe” that those copies are forgeries and fraud has been committed. Then there’s this 3rd side that says, based on logic, you can say “I believe” till hell freezes over but noone can be sure until document experts that represent the interest of both sides are allowed to examine whatever birth records/documents the HDoH has on file for 0bama, and that’s based on if they really do exist.

    So my question for you using the best intellectually honest answer you can give, how would you go about resolving this ongoing conflict?

  57. avatar
    donna March 25, 2012 at 9:06 pm #

    “I think, given the birther emphasis on blood, that we should demand a sample from Santorum to see if it is indeed red.”

    the BEST giggle of the day doc, grazie mille

  58. avatar
    Scientist March 25, 2012 at 9:21 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: OMG!!! I just thought of a way the Birthers could actually have a really good chance to get to see the Long Form Birth Certificate. I am being TOTALLY serious here!!! Sure I reveal this,or should I go into hiding sooo nobody could get it out of my lips???Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

    I’ve already seen it.

  59. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 25, 2012 at 9:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I did a detailed analysis of one of those videos in my article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/06/slick-video-9-lies-in-45-seconds/

    It just makes me mad as h*ll every time I listen to somebody lie about the law like in that video. I wonder how many poor stupid Birthers there are that honestly believe that garbage. A lot of them know it is garbage, and spew it anyway, but there are some who just don’t know any better and it is wrong to take advantage of them that way.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  60. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 25, 2012 at 9:24 pm #

    Scientist: I’ve already seen it.

    No, I mean the one right straight from Obama. I am being serious here. This would work, but there would be Birther suits all over the place if I reveal The Way. I am trying sooo hard to be a good adult person here, because I am just sooo dying to tell them, but I am just not sure it is right to do stuff like that.

    But, it would probably put an end to Birthering for a lot of them. OH, I need a drink.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  61. avatar
    Scientist March 25, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: No, I mean the one right straight from Obama

    That’s the one I’ve seen.

  62. avatar
    ASK Esq March 25, 2012 at 9:49 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: It is sooo out of left field that nobody has ever thought of it, and I am cursing my warped brain for thinking of it, but now that I have, I can’t stop thinking about it and the more I think the more sure I am it would work.

    I can’t imagine anything being so far out that the birthers haven’t thought of it. After all, this is the group that counts among its members people who think that President Obama’s real father is his maternal grandfather, and his real mother is a black prostitute. So please, let us know what you’ve thought of. It won’t help them, but it would be fun to see them run with it for a while.

    BTW, if it involves sending Nicolas Cage into the White House to steal the BC that Hawaii sent to Obama, I’m pretty sure Orly already asked him to try that.

  63. avatar
    justlw March 25, 2012 at 10:15 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I just thought of a way the Birthers could actually have a really good chance to get to see the Long Form Birth Certificate

    It doesn’t sound like it would actually involve Catherine Zeta Jones dodging laser beams, so I’m skeptical.

  64. avatar
    justlw March 25, 2012 at 10:16 pm #

    Northland10: No foreign influence? Wasn’t Vattel a foreigner?

    *applause*

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 10:27 pm #

    What you could do is to announce this on your web site and say that you need $10,000 in order to disclose it. Add a PayPal button. That is, pull an Ed Hale.

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: No, I am being serious. It just came to me, and I don’t know whether to do a Internet Article on it, or just shut my mouth. Because even though it is screwy, I am almost positive that it would work. People here would laugh, but Birthers would do it in a second. I am sure they would.

  66. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 10:44 pm #

    If birtherism is, as I and other writers about conspiracy theories believe it is, a conspiracy theory, then it is not a “rational argument” and it is not solvable through rational means. So, I’d ask you in turn, when was any conspiracy ever “resolved” in the negative? You might find an example, but generally conspiracy theories last until they become irrelevant or all the proponents die off. Conspiracy theories don’t respond to evidence: evidence contrary to the theory is transformed into evidence of the size and power of the conspiracy.

    Each birther holds on to a few core arguments, some of them completely contrary to evidence and some fallacious, etc. For a fair number, the evidence that Barack Obama’s birth was fishy was because he wouldn’t release the long form birth certificate (even though he had released the short form years before). When he released the long form, birther number dropped by half (from their Donald Trump high). What’s left I would consider hard-core conspiracy theorists who have invested their time and passion to this issue. Those folks are not going to be persuaded by anything.

    My view is that the birthers will always be with us, and at least for me, I will trust the judicial system and the electorate not to let the birthers affect the lives of the rest of us too much. My own role is to provide a compilation of accurate and verifiable information to help the general public make informed decisions, and to help news organizations and other researchers save a little time finding quickly the sources they need to do their job.

    Rambo Ike: So my question for you using the best intellectually honest answer you can give, how would you go about resolving this ongoing conflict?

  67. avatar
    Thrifty March 25, 2012 at 10:46 pm #

    Public executions of Birthers is really the only thing I can think of. I don’t advocate this, as it is both morally wrong and highly illegal, but it’s really the only think that would work.

    Rambo Ike: So my question for you using the best intellectually honest answer you can give, how would you go about resolving this ongoing conflict?

  68. avatar
    jayhg March 25, 2012 at 10:47 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    OMG!!! I just thought of a way the Birthers could actually have a really good chance to get to see the Long Form Birth Certificate. I am being TOTALLY serious here!!! Sure I reveal this,or should I go into hiding sooo nobody could get it out of my lips???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    But the birthers have seen the long form. Do you mean they could get a certified copy of President Obama’s “long form” BC for their very own? I could write to Hawaii and get one for myself?

    I say tell them cause first of all, they won’t believe anything they get and second of all, it proves that President Obama is a natural born citizen.

  69. avatar
    Majority Will March 25, 2012 at 10:53 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Public executions of Birthers is really the only thing I can think of. I don’t advocate this, as it is both morally wrong and highly illegal, but it’s really the only think that would work.

    That won’t stop next season’s Fox reality show lineup.

  70. avatar
    Majority Will March 25, 2012 at 10:55 pm #

    Rambo Ike: everyone following American politics is aware of the almost 4 years of controversies surrounding 0bama’s documents/records

    That’s a steaming pile of nonsense.

  71. avatar
    Scientist March 25, 2012 at 10:56 pm #

    Rambo Ike: So my question for you using the best intellectually honest answer you can give, how would you go about resolving this ongoing conflict?

    Why is it necessary to “resolve” it? Can you name me an issue that you would consider resolved; i.e., one on which evreybody agrees? Foreign policy? Taxes? Abortion? Coke vs Pepsi? Does God exist? Nothing is ever resolved. Yet the world continues.

  72. avatar
    jayhg March 25, 2012 at 10:57 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: No, I mean the one right straight from Obama. I am being serious here. This would work, but there would be Birther suits all over the place if I reveal The Way. I am trying sooo hard to be a good adult person here, because I am just sooo dying to tell them, but I am just not sure it is right to do stuff like that.

    But, it would probably put an end to Birthering for a lot of them. OH, I need a drink.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    You mean the one that President Obama had the the news conference – that actual piece of paper? I say go ahead and tell them……..I can’t imagine under ANY scenario whereby the laws of the U.S. would allow conspiracy theorist to fish around any place to their heart’s content, least of all personal documents belonging to the President of the United States….so go ahead and tell the birthers.

    I like doc’s idea of making thempay for it, though……and world nut daily might even pay you the $10,000.

  73. avatar
    richCares March 25, 2012 at 10:58 pm #

    rambo ike says “So my question for you using the best intellectually honest answer you can give, how would you go about resolving this ongoing conflict?”
    .
    on reading rainbo ike
    I laughed till I thought I would die
    Die, they woud bury me
    bury me, they would throw dirt in my face
    Dirt in my face would tickle and I would laugh
    laughh till I thout I would die

  74. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 11:03 pm #

    The custodian of records in Hawaii under the Republican administration, and the custodian of documents under the Democratic administration have both stated that the birth certificate exists and is on file at the State.

    It would seem to me that anyone who doubts the existence and authenticity of the birth certificate after that is not going to be convinced otherwise. In order to maintain such doubts such a person has to entertain wildly implausible scenarios, and it is simply impossible to disprove every imaginable wildly implausible scenario.

    Also, the practice of the birthers to credit other birthers as “experts” when they do not qualify as experts, makes it even harder.

    Rambo Ike: Then there’s this 3rd side that says, based on logic, you can say “I believe” till hell freezes over but noone can be sure until document experts that represent the interest of both sides are allowed to examine whatever birth records/documents the HDoH has on file for 0bama, and that’s based on if they really do exist.

  75. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2012 at 11:14 pm #

    It makes me angry too, which is one of the reasons this web site exists.

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: It just makes me mad as h*ll every time I listen to somebody lie about the law like in that video.

  76. avatar
    nbc March 25, 2012 at 11:15 pm #

    Rambo Ike: So my question for you using the best intellectually honest answer you can give, how would you go about resolving this ongoing conflict?

    There is no real conflict but rather a one-sided conspiratorial belief that somehow President Obama, in spite of all the evidence, is not a natural born citizen. The issue can be resolved by educating those birthers who are interested in the facts and ignore those who will believe whatever their ignorance and fear tells them to. They will continue to fail, in the Courts, in Congress, and in the public opinion. Those who ignore reason, logic and facts in favor of ignorance, hatred and fear are doomed to live their lives in the shadows of darkness, subtly manipulated by the puppet master.

    And why would one want to resolve something that provides so much entertainment to some of us 🙂 Come on Orly is hilarious in her inability to get much of anything right in Court or during administrative hearings.

  77. avatar
    misha March 25, 2012 at 11:39 pm #

    Rambo Ike: So my question for you using the best intellectually honest answer you can give, how would you go about resolving this ongoing conflict?

    Sigh. I’ll try again, not that it will have any effect: Linda Lingle is Jewish and a Republican. She felt McCain/Palin would be better for Israel than Obama. If she could have found anything, the GOP would have used it with glee.

    Sorry.

  78. avatar
    G March 25, 2012 at 11:42 pm #

    Agreed.

    There is no actual “controvery” here at all. Just a bunch of ODS sufferers manufacturing them endlessly to come up with desperate excuses to try to magically wish away the election of a President they simply can’t come to grips to accept.

    nbc: There is no real conflict but rather a one-sided conspiratorial belief that somehow President Obama, in spite of all the evidence, is not a natural born citizen. The issue can be resolved by educating those birthers who are interested in the facts and ignore those who will believe whatever their ignorance and fear tells them to. They will continue to fail, in the Courts, in Congress, and in the public opinion. Those who ignore reason, logic and facts in favor of ignorance, hatred and fear are doomed to live their lives in the shadows of darkness, subtly manipulated by the puppet master.

  79. avatar
    misha March 25, 2012 at 11:44 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Public executions of Birthers is really the only thing I can think of. I don’t advocate this, as it is both morally wrong and highly illegal, but it’s really the only think that would work.

    No. What would work is live ammo at Civil War reenactments.

  80. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 26, 2012 at 12:03 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What you could do is to announce this on your web site and say that you need $10,000 in order to disclose it. Add a PayPal button. That is, pull an Ed Hale.

    I thought about that, but when you do some things for money, it just doesn’t work out. Sooo, I am going to reveal it in a day or so for free. I already have the image selected. (I had to make it) I still have to get some basic legal research together, and flesh it out, but I bet everybody is going to be VERY surprised at how it has been staring the Birthers in the face the whole time.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  81. avatar
    aarrgghh March 26, 2012 at 12:36 am #

    G: Agreed.

    There is no actual “controvery” here at all.Just a bunch of ODS sufferers manufacturing them endlessly to come up with desperate excuses to try to magically wish away the election of a President they simply can’t come to grips to accept.

    case in point:

    “… everyone is now occupied with discussing the political aspects relating to this year’s presidential campaign. What a joke and a total waste of time. A presidential election to defeat’ an illegal president? We need to all have our heads examined. What we need to do first is turn back the clock four years and start over since everything that has taken place to date is a nullity. We need to do the 2008 elections all over after we evict the current imposter. This fraudulent clown in the WH has cost all of us and our country four years of our lives.”

  82. avatar
    John Woodman March 26, 2012 at 12:49 am #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I thought about that, but when you do some things for money, it just doesn’t work out. Sooo, I am going to reveal it in a day or so for free.

    Tell me! I’ll sell it to the birthers! I’ll even split the take with you. 😉

  83. avatar
    donna March 26, 2012 at 12:54 am #

    Squeeky Fromm:

    announce it at arpaio’s next press conference on the 31st

  84. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 26, 2012 at 1:56 am #

    It might be said that the birthers have cost me 3 and a half years of my life, but we all have choices. The Obama presidency and the birthers are not of paramount importance and the birthers far less so. This birther/RWNJ is in denial.

    Personally, I’d like to leave the clock right where it is, and keep my grandchildren.

    aarrgghh (quoting): “What we need to do first is turn back the clock four years and start over…This fraudulent clown in the WH has cost all of us and our country four years of our lives.”

  85. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 26, 2012 at 2:02 am #

    There is something cosmically wrong when a birther invokes “intellectual honesty.”

    Rambo Ike: So my question for you using the best intellectually honest answer you can give

  86. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 26, 2012 at 2:09 am #

    donna:
    Squeeky Fromm:

    announce it at arpaio’s next press conference on the 31st

    Are you kidding??? I am not even going out of the house until I ditch this hot potato. I swear I hear black helicopters in the distance. (Do Birthers even have helicopters???)

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  87. avatar
    misha March 26, 2012 at 2:12 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    There is something cosmically wrong when a birther invokes “intellectual honesty.”

    ‘Birther’ and ‘intellectual honesty’ are mutually exclusive.

  88. avatar
    G March 26, 2012 at 2:27 am #

    *facepalm* Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

    As far as elections go, I understand that you are a Libertarian, Aarrgghh. In terms of your party’s May nominating convention, I am sincerely hoping that Gary Johnson is selected. I like him. Besides, the rest of the bunch I’ve seen are really crusty old farts and crazy conspiracy nut/birther Wayne Allan Root (barf). I really wish I lived in a world where a Presidential election was a selection of the best of the best from all political perspectives. Then America would always win, no matter what the end result was. But of course that is just an unrealistic pipe dream. *sigh* I’m well aware of how entrenched the 2-party dominance is in this country…but I really wish there was a different system in place, as the forced dichotomy seems to only lower the bar and not raise it… but humanity is still too culturally immature and greedy to do what is in the best intersts of society as a whole…*double sigh*…but I digress….

    Well, while I’m digressing, I always wanted to also give you a big kudos for your handle. I really think it is very cool that you are a big Incredible Hulk fan too. 🙂

    aarrgghh:
    case in point:
    “… everyone is now occupied with discussing the political aspects relating to this year’s presidential campaign. What a joke and a total waste of time. A presidential election to defeat’ an illegal president? We need to all have our heads examined. What we need to do first is turn back the clock four years and start over since everything that has taken place to date is a nullity. We need to do the 2008 elections all over after we evict the current imposter. This fraudulent clown in the WH has cost all of us and our country four years of our lives.”

  89. avatar
    Lupin March 26, 2012 at 2:32 am #

    Northland10: Lupin

    Non mais reellement???? It just boggles the mind. How come Corsi isn’t widely derided as an object of ridicule?

  90. avatar
    misha March 26, 2012 at 2:43 am #

    Lupin: How come Corsi isn’t widely derided as an object of ridicule?

    Because Santorum and Bachmann have stolen the crackpot spotlight. Don’t worry, Corsi is going to end up like David Irving.

  91. avatar
    misha March 26, 2012 at 2:46 am #

    Lupin: How come Corsi isn’t widely derided as an object of ridicule?

    Potential Matchup Between Black Man and Mormon Poses Dilemma for Bigots

    Nowhere to Turn, Disgruntled Haters Say:
    http://www.borowitzreport.com/2012/03/20/potential-matchup-between-black-man-and-mormon-poses-dilemma-for-bigots/

  92. avatar
    Paper March 26, 2012 at 2:58 am #

    Welcome to the fight, citizen! Some of us have been struggling for years to keep the cloned sons of Dr. Doom off the ballot, not to mention the daughters of Doc Ock. Of course, as you know, these are the easy ones to keep off. You think Jeb Bush has trouble running for president right now? Try running as part of the Doom family.

    I actually worked for Dr. Doom once, and I asked him, why always the presidency? Just take over Congress. But it’s always the ego, the prestige, the big title for these guys.

    More worrisome is the Paul dynasty. Oh so sneaky, they are, doing everything by the rules. Avoiding all that super villain drama. Getting born in the country, so no one ever suspects them. One a representative, one a senator. Very smart if I say so myself. Not to worry, though. We’ve got our team all ready to demand Ron Paul’s birth certificate. Can I sign you up for that team, or perhaps our opposition research? We could use some sharp eyes there.

    Well, let us know.

    Jee:
    This logic, would literally allow the possibility of say, Adolf Hitler could of had relations with a American woman who moved back to America, having undercover SS protection. Educate the young man and if he had enough money to pay for ads and votes, he could become President of the United States, Does anyone seriously like the fact of the possibility? Replace Hitler with Napoleon since he was around during our fore fathers. Geez.

  93. avatar
    red-diaper baby 1942 March 26, 2012 at 3:01 am #

    “Because Santorum and Bachmann have stolen the crackpot spotlight. Don’t worry, Corsi is going to end up like David Irving.”

    We can only hope! But the “power of stupid” is pretty big in this country right now.

  94. avatar
    Paper March 26, 2012 at 3:16 am #

    Well put and much appreciated!

    Dr. Conspiracy: My view is that the birthers will always be with us, and at least for me, I will trust the judicial system and the electorate not to let the birthers affect the lives of the rest of us too much. My own role is to provide a compilation of accurate and verifiable information to help the general public make informed decisions, and to help news organizations and other researchers save a little time finding quickly the sources they need to do their job.

  95. avatar
    Northland10 March 26, 2012 at 7:28 am #

    It is probably safe to say that he is not an object of ridicule because a large swath of America does not even know who he is. They probably have not even seen WND. Despite the birthers thinking they are at the center of the universe and the most important thing happening, in actuality, not really.

    Economics, healthcare, March madness…. This is what concerns most people now.

    Lupin: Non mais reellement???? It just boggles the mind. How come Corsi isn’t widely derided as an object of ridicule?

  96. avatar
    Northland10 March 26, 2012 at 7:36 am #

    Rambo Ike: Unless you’ve been hibernation in a cave for the last 4 years everyone following American politics is aware of the almost 4 years of controversies surrounding 0bama’s documents/records.

    Unless you could prove some hard evidence to the contrary, I would say you are quite wrong. You and those around you may be obsessed, and there are some of us who enjoy the follies, but to the average American around, they have no idea. I live in a major metropolitan area and the common answer the few times it has ever came up was, “didn’t he show his birth certificate last year?” That is the extent of their knowledge. Even Sharon Maroni’s attempts have gone widely unknown and she lives in the same general area.

    People know of Andy Martin but that is only because he has been a serial candidate and loon for years.

    As I mentioned above to Lupin, the greatest concern and most overheard water cooler conversations right now.. March Madness.

  97. avatar
    Tarrant March 26, 2012 at 7:59 am #

    Rambo Ike:
    “You could probably also forget what you think you know, and just ask honest questions and then actually listen to the answers. This stuff really isn’t all that hard.”
    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Thank You for that! I’ve been looking for a trustworthy 0b0t/anti-Birther site where the creed is “Honest Answers to Honest Questions”.

    Here’s mine:

    Unless you’ve been hibernation in a cave for the last 4 years everyone following American politics is aware of the almost 4 years of controversies surrounding 0bama’s documents/records. On just the birth record(s) we have an ongoing conflict where on 1 side are those who say “I believe” based on officials having told them what was released are true copies of the original(s) on file at the HDoH. On the other side of this issue, based on years of investigating, are those that say “I believe” that those copies are forgeries and fraud has been committed. Then there’s this 3rd side that says, based on logic, you can say “I believe” till hell freezes over but noone can be sure until document experts that represent the interest of both sides are allowed to examine whatever birth records/documents the HDoH has on file for 0bama, and that’s based on if they really do exist.

    So my question for you using the best intellectually honest answer you can give, how would you go about resolving this ongoing conflict?

    For times like these, we haw the Constitution of the United States, which says that if the state says it is a legitimate document, then it is. Therefore, the side that says “they believe it is a forgery” is wrong, and the side that says “It is real” (not “they believe” – it IS real) is right.

    Imagine you’re pulled over by a police officer and show your license, and said officer says “No, sorry, I don’t believe this is a real license it’s clearly forged.” So you get the state DMV to send a letter saying “It is real, this is a licensed driver in our state”. The next step isn’t for the cop to say “OK, you say it s, I say it isn’t, let’s have independent document experts decide”.

    The next step is for the cop to admit that under the Constitution, once the state was the license is valid, the conversation is over. When a state says a document is true and correct it is considered everywhere in the country to be true and correct. If birthers want to convince a court or government body – all of which are bound b the Constitution to accept the document as legitimate – to reject it, they are going to have to PROVE that he was born someplace else – and they’re nt going to be given discovery or the like to do it, because from the court’s point of view the truth has already been discovered.

    That’s the way the Constitution works. Contrary to the beliefs of the birthers, there’s more in it than Article 2 Clause 4/5 and the Second Amendment.

  98. avatar
    El Diablo Negro March 26, 2012 at 8:09 am #

    Northland10: …the birthers thinking they are at the center of the universe and the most important thing happening…

    Where I work there is “Zero” discussion about birth certificates. I am pretty sure I am the only one that reads this stuff here. Most people here are more concerned about their local sports teams, hollywood gossip, and their own personal lives. There is political talk, but it has more to do wilth the election than the Presidents birth whereabouts.

    Birther’s are on a one acre plot, but think they have a continent.

  99. avatar
    Majority Will March 26, 2012 at 8:21 am #

    El Diablo Negro: Birther’s are on a one acre plot, but think they have a continent.

    Probably more like incontinent.

  100. avatar
    El Diablo Negro March 26, 2012 at 8:33 am #

    Majority Will: Probably more like incontinent.

    I had to look that up….wish i didn’t

    Incontinence or Incontinent may refer to:

    Fecal incontinence, the inability to control one’s bowels
    Incontinence (philosophy)
    Incontinent (album), a 1981 album by Fad Gadget
    Urinary incontinence, the involuntary excretion of urine

  101. avatar
    The Magic M March 26, 2012 at 8:45 am #

    Obsolete: Joe: “idered natural born citizen? You would think the forefathers made the clause to prevent the slightest possibility of a foreign influence over the highest office in the United States.”

    If this were true, why did they only require a President to have lived in the country a minimum of 14 years? To them, a 35 year old man who lived for 21 of those years in France was perfectly eligible.

    Not just that. The child could’ve been locked up in the parents’ basement, taught nothing but to speak [insert scary foreign language here], hate the US, hate freedom, hate Christians and plan to send nukes to China his first day in office.

    According to birthers, the Founders have protected us sufficiently against such a President by making sure the war hero child (whose father happened to be unable to prove US citizenship when the child runs for office some 70 years later) will never make it to the Oval Office.
    Sounds quite logical, in birther bizarro world of course.

  102. avatar
    bovril March 26, 2012 at 8:53 am #

    I always find it terribly telling that for all their talk of being “Constitutionalists” our sad, deluded Birfoon bretheren are the ONLY ones who will blithely ignore any and all parts of the Constitution that don’t cleave to their insanity.

    I don’t hear from the centrist to left side of the political spectrum this hatred of the principles and laws of the Constitution and it’s offciers and institutions. There may be dislike or a feeling that some part (or its interpretation via the SC) is wrong but there is no advocay of violence to remove it.

  103. avatar
    The Magic M March 26, 2012 at 8:59 am #

    Rambo Ike: On the other side of this issue, based on years of investigating, are those that say “I believe” that those copies are forgeries and fraud has been committed. Then there’s this 3rd side that says, based on logic, you can say “I believe” till hell freezes over but noone can be sure until document experts that represent the interest of both sides are allowed to examine

    I don’t think that “3rd side” actually exists. We’ve seen a few concern trolls, but there is no significant number of people who claim “based on logic” that any true controversy exists.

    First, “based on logic”, one would assume that if birthers were right, they wouldn’t have to lie and distort/misrepresent the truth so often. If they had a legitimate concern, they wouldn’t go about claiming stuff that is so easily debunked (such as “no-one remembers Obama from…” or “he lost his citizenship when he was adopted” or “he wasn’t allowed to travel to Pakistan on his US passport”). They would stick to the “controversial” issues and make sure they had covered all their bases, as in “fool me once…” (in Germany, we have a saying that, translated literally, “if you lie three times, you’re not credible anymore, even if you happened to be telling the truth”).

    Second, this alleged “third side” smells of the trick that ID proponents tried to get their crap taught in schools. The method is “first claim there is a controversy, then attempt to have it treated as if there were a real controversy”.
    But birthers aren’t even close to ID (which has the head start of being appealing to many Christians), they’re much closer to “hollow Earth” or “flat Earth”. Claiming lots of stuff without tangible evidence does not create controversy, so there’s no need for a “third side” to claim “I honestly want this controversy resolved”.

    I also don’t see a “third side” claiming they need to be taken on the next space trip to resolve the “Flat Earth controversy”.

  104. avatar
    Lancelot Link March 26, 2012 at 9:00 am #

    If you think they look stupid now, just wait until their new birther buddy Lord Monckton gets going.

  105. avatar
    donna March 26, 2012 at 9:18 am #

    “Unless you’ve been hibernation in a cave for the last 4 years everyone following American politics is aware of the almost 4 years of controversies surrounding 0bama’s documents/records. ”

    SERIOUSLY? i still have to explain to people what “birther” stands for. i still send (or show) people the wonderful daily show video from 09 “The Born Identity”

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identity

    i don’t even mention arpaio, wing nutzz daily, corsi, etc cause that would be beyond their interest – they do remember the trump FIASCO but brush him off as an egomaniac looking for publicity – unless they are very old and haven’t recently needed a birth certificate, they are clueless about “long form” ….. they have the “short form” (since the 60s for ri & ny for people born in the 40s ) bottom line: MOST people don’t bother with “fringes” – they and their lives reside in the middle …….. far from the EXTREMES

  106. avatar
    Paper March 26, 2012 at 9:35 am #

    Oh, what is that one? In German…auf Deutsch…

    The Magic M: (in Germany, we have a saying that, translated literally, “if you lie three times, you’re not credible anymore, even if you happened to be telling the truth”).

  107. avatar
    Bob March 26, 2012 at 9:52 am #

    I have my doubts that there is even one Birther out there who is honestly concerned that the president isn’t eligible according the Constitution. It’s just an excuse to harass, threaten, sow doubt, and spew insults.

  108. avatar
    donna March 26, 2012 at 10:13 am #

    “I have my doubts that there is even one Birther out there who is honestly concerned that the president isn’t eligible according the Constitution. It’s just an excuse to harass, threaten, sow doubt, and spew insults.”

    if you read comments from birthers, we KNOW what the genesis is:

    “Unless millions of Americans march on Washington and demand this coon produce the info or nothing will come of it”

    “This coon might decide to drop the bombs on Russia. ”

    “Arrest the coon as he’s giving a speech”

    “HE (arapio) needs the Jew media to have him on 20/20, Nightline or Sixty Minutes. ”

    “GET THE MEDIA OUT OF JEWISH HANDS. “

  109. avatar
    Scientist March 26, 2012 at 10:31 am #

    Bob: I have my doubts that there is even one Birther out there who is honestly concerned that the president isn’t eligible according the Constitution. It’s just an excuse to harass, threaten, sow doubt, and spew insults.

    If it were truly about eligibillity there would be a substantial number of pro-Obama birthers, folks who think he has been a good President and agree wiith most of his policies, but believe him to be ineligible. In fact, I have searched high and low and not found even one pro-Obama birther. Certainly, if a truly ineligible candidate (like Schwarzenegger) ran there would be a substantial number of pro-Arnold birthers, folks who would say, “He was a decent governor and probably would make a good President, too bad he isn’t eligiible.” But there is not a single pro-Obama birther.

  110. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 26, 2012 at 10:39 am #

    Paper:
    Oh, what is that one? In German…auf Deutsch…

    That would be the principle of “The Boy Who Cried Wolfgang.”

  111. avatar
    donna March 26, 2012 at 10:40 am #

    “But there is not a single pro-Obama birther.”

    where is the birther OUTRAGE over saintorum and romney?

  112. avatar
    US Citizen March 26, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    donna: if you read comments from birthers, we KNOW what the genesis is:

    “Unless millions of Americans march on Washington and demand this coon produce the info or nothing will come of it”

    “This coon might decide to drop the bombs on Russia. ”

    “Arrest the coon as he’s giving a speech”

    “HE (arapio) needs the Jew media to have him on 20/20, Nightline or Sixty Minutes. ”

    “GET THE MEDIA OUT OF JEWISH HANDS. ”

    So…. they hate Sammy Davis, Jr?

  113. avatar
    Paper March 26, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    That’s good. I was thinking something like: Lie three times, get the wolf free.

    Thomas Brown: That would be the principle of “The Boy Who Cried Wolfgang.”

  114. avatar
    The Magic M March 26, 2012 at 11:33 am #

    Paper:
    Oh, what is that one? In German…auf Deutsch…

    It even rhymes:

    Wer dreimal lügt, dem glaubt man nicht
    Auch wenn er jetzt die Wahrheit spricht

    😉

  115. avatar
    Daniel March 26, 2012 at 12:25 pm #

    Jee: You would think the forefathers made the clause to prevent the slightest possibility of a foreign influence over the highest office in the United States.

    Timothy McVeigh had two citizen parents

  116. avatar
    Northland10 March 26, 2012 at 1:17 pm #

    Corsi and Co. probably thought that pink underware sheriff might be well known enough to give them the the larger audience they seek. Having the press ingnore them ruins their primary goal and gives them a sad.

  117. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 26, 2012 at 1:44 pm #

    The Magic M: It even rhymes:

    Wer dreimal lügt, dem glaubt man nicht
    Auch wenn er jetzt die Wahrheit spricht

    OH, how sweet to see the German
    Has a rhyme for Birfer vermin!

    Als fur mich,
    Ich spricht
    Es nicht.

    Ein Wort
    Ich habe.
    Es gern???
    Kimosabe.

    Die Scheisskopfen
    by Squeeky Fromm,
    Girl Reporter

    How oft I wish when I have heard
    Some Birther wax moronic,
    That for the cranium they made
    A cleansing High Colonic.

    Perhaps some sort of nasal spray,
    With laxative included?
    To roto-rooter out their brains
    And leave them less deluded.

    Or maybe take a Neti Pot
    With crevice tool extending?
    And they could name it “Nutty Pot”
    And seek the “Patent Pending.”

    There surely has to be a way
    To sanitize gray matter.
    And flush out Minor Happersett
    With other Birther patter.

    The Bi-polars and Borderlines
    We treat throughout the Nation.
    But did we under-rate the risks
    From Mental Constipation?

    And so to those with Poop for Brains,
    Hold on, a cure’s a-borning!
    Or better yet, just let it go!
    But first, give us a warning!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  118. avatar
    G March 26, 2012 at 2:04 pm #

    Agreed.

    WND may be somewhat known in (particularly right-wing political circles), but to the general population, it and its figureheads are barely known. Really, the proportion of folks who actively follow politics beyond just what they see when they turn on the TV is not that large. Most folks have many other interests and activities that keep their lives very busy.

    For those who know who WND is, there is not much love for Corsi or Farah and their tabloid rag, except on the lunatic fringe of the RW. Sure, they get to make a few occasional appearances on Fox News outlets, but then so do a lot of other crazy figures from the right.

    The thing is, politics is full of lots of really “out there” characters, especially on the modern right. So there are tons of other names and constant examples that cast a much deeper shadow and impression than the WND clowns. Most folks have an idea and a strong opinion about names such as Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, etc. Not to mention actual GOP politicians and campaign operatives who make remarks that pop up in the headlines on a semi-frequent basis. All of those individuals each have a much higher overall name recognition (and even reputation) than any of the fairly obscure names that come out of WND.

    Northland10: It is probably safe to say that he is not an object of ridicule because a large swath of America does not even know who he is. They probably have not even seen WND. Despite the birthers thinking they are at the center of the universe and the most important thing happening, in actuality, not really.Economics, healthcare, March madness…. This is what concerns most people now.

  119. avatar
    G March 26, 2012 at 2:26 pm #

    Agreed.

    Even amongst my friends who closely and actively follow politics closely, Birtherism is rarely a topic that comes up (on either side of the political spectrum)…and if it does, it is quickly dismissed with scorn, as simply too ridiculous to even talk about further.

    But that doesn’t mean they are completely unaware of this issue, simply that they consider it silly nonsense and a long settled matter. There was just enough media coverage over the past few years, especially with the Donald Trump thing and Obama’s LFBC being released and then killing OBL, that just about everyone, (even amongst those that don’t follow politics and who don’t even pay attention to the news), seem to have a general sense of what a “Birther” is, just as they have a general sense of what a “Truther” is and have heard of Moon Landing Deniers and the Loch Ness Monster too.

    So all the BIrthers have accomplished is to be known as a bizarre and discredited element of the lunatic fringe…one that most people think has faded away and regard as utterly ludicrous and irrelevant. The term is a pure stigma of batsh*t crazy nutzos, which it has well earned.

    El Diablo Negro: Where I work there is “Zero” discussion about birth certificates. I am pretty sure I am the only one that reads this stuff here. Most people here are more concerned about their local sports teams, hollywood gossip, and their own personal lives. There is political talk, but it has more to do wilth the election than the Presidents birth whereabouts.
    Birther’s are on a one acre plot, but think they have a continent.

    Northland10: Unless you could prove some hard evidence to the contrary, I would say you are quite wrong. You and those around you may be obsessed, and there are some of us who enjoy the follies, but to the average American around, they have no idea. I live in a major metropolitan area and the common answer the few times it has ever came up was, “didn’t he show his birth certificate last year?” That is the extent of their knowledge.

  120. avatar
    JPotter March 26, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    G: WND may be somewhat known in (particularly right-wing political circles), but to the general population, it and its figureheads are barely known.

    It’s even better than that. While i know several people with birthery tendencies, I have never met anyone offline who is aware of birtherism. It’s not an active issue, but a subculture. An obsession or a curiosity. I know of no one who would recognize any of the birther dramatis personae. Not even Corsi. his Swift Boat glory days are long gone, an embarrassment, even in Okieland.

    Now, I’m sure there are plenty of crankster birthers rolling around here in Okieland …. Obama came to town and every opiolitician in the state was trying to hard to pretend he wasn’t here they didn’t even bother to go to the airport to wag a finger … but even here, how ever many online ‘activists’ there are are lost in a state of 3 million people.

    As virulent and verbose as they are, the remaining active, online, bither warriors are a super-minority, a little gaggle that couldn’t fill the House of Reps if they alll get elected.
    The lack of perspective is amusing yet sad. Truly amazing how out of touch people can become (eh, Haskins?).

  121. avatar
    G March 26, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    Agreed.

    There is NO “3rd side” anymore. Maybe there was during the initial year of this contrived “controversy”, when these crazy allegations were first being made and had to be looked into, but not anymore.

    All actual evidence that emerged ALL corroborated Obama’s birth story and all the crazy claims have been repeatedly debunked. No serious minded person with a genuine curiosity could look at the mountain of evidence and walk away a Birther. No, only folks with a terminal case of ODS who are looking for an excuse for their hatred are susceptible to swallowing this swill.

    So no, even though some Birthers hate being called “Birthers”, they are still Birthers if they fall for or try to peddle any of this cr@p. There is no “3rd side” at all. Only Concern Trolls pretending in order to push their Birther propaganda, because that is what Concern Trolls do…

    The Magic M: I don’t think that “3rd side” actually exists. We’ve seen a few concern trolls, but there is no significant number of people who claim “based on logic” that any true controversy exists.

  122. avatar
    Rickey March 26, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

    Scientist: If it were truly about eligibillity there would be a substantial number of pro-Obama birthers, folks who think he has been a good President and agree wiith most of his policies, but believe him to be ineligible.In fact, I have searched high and low and not found even one pro-Obama birther.Certainly, if a truly ineligible candidate (like Schwarzenegger) ran there would be a substantial number of pro-Arnold birthers, folks who would say, “He was a decent governor and probably would make a good President, too bad he isn’t eligiible.”But there is not a single pro-Obama birther.

    And if it were truly about eligibility, real election law attorneys would be following it closely. One of the leading election law sites is run by Moritz College of Law at Ohio State University. On the home page they list the Top Ten Election Issues, and guess which “issue” failed to make the cut?

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/

    In fact, in the “candidate eligibility” section they aren’t even following the cases which challenge Obama’s eligibility.

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/issues/index.php?topicID=21

    The point, of course, is that no one who is an expert in election law believes that the Obama ballot challenges have any chance of succeeding.

  123. avatar
    G March 26, 2012 at 3:00 pm #

    Agreed. Even amongst their most ardent activists, they can barely muster public turnouts above several dozen.

    As the Birthers use a lot of sock puppets, it is hard to even gauge what the real size of their online population is. The same handles tend to crop up over and over again, whenever a website has a news story that can be connected to Birtherism.

    The US population is over 311 Million people. One percent of that would be over 3 Million.

    Despite some polling question data, I see no real evidence that the total Birther population could even come close to that. Maybe one tenth of one percent at best…and even that is probably giving them too much credit.

    What people forget about even voter polling data extrapolations is that they only apply to a smaller segment of the population in the first place – those who are “eligible” or “likely” voters, which is a much smaller number than the actual total population. Further, there is a lot of questionable reliability on what people tell to certain pollsters versus what they actually believe and would tell to their own friends and family.

    So I suspect that a majority of polled “Birthers” are just what I call “Bandwagon Birthers” – willing to simply go along with spreading a known smear for the sake of being willing to perpetuate a smear. But not foolish enough to stake their reputations and stick their necks and out to go along with any of the causes and activities of the “Birther Activists” out there…

    JPotter: online activists’ there are are lost in a state of 3 million people.
    As virulent and verbose as they are, the remaining active, online, bither warriors are a super-minority, a little gaggle that couldn’t fill the House of Reps if they alll get elected.
    The lack of perspective is amusing yet sad. Truly amazing how out of touch people can become (eh, Haskins?).

  124. avatar
    G March 26, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    Thanks for bringing that up and sharing that!. That is probably one of the most important anecdotal evidentiary points on this whole topic. It truly reveals how frivolous and inconsequential the whole Birtherism nonsense is to the real world.

    Rickey: And if it were truly about eligibility, real election law attorneys would be following it closely. One of the leading election law sites is run by Moritz College of Law at Ohio State University. On the home page they list the Top Ten Election Issues, and guess which “issue” failed to make the cut?

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/

    Yeah, in reviewing that list and the history of cases they followed, looks like they stopped paying attention to Birtherism after January 2009.

    Rickey:
    In fact, in the “candidate eligibility” section they aren’t even following the cases which challenge Obama’s eligibility.

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/issues/index.php?topicID=21

    The point, of course, is that no one who is an expert in election law believes that the Obama ballot challenges have any chance of succeeding.

  125. avatar
    JPotter March 26, 2012 at 3:31 pm #

    Rickey: On the home page they list the Top Ten Election Issues, and guess which “issue” failed to make the cut?

    But you know, if they have a follies page …. nah, a serious academic/legal site wouldn’t want to open up that portal to the netherworld. But you know they aware of the stupid, and finding nonstop amusement this election cycle!

  126. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 26, 2012 at 4:11 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: “If birtherism is, as I and other writers about conspiracy theories believe it is, a conspiracy theory, then it is not a “rational argument” and it is not solvable through rational means. So, I’d ask you in turn, when was any conspiracy ever “resolved” in the negative? You might find an example, but generally conspiracy theories last until they become irrelevant or all the proponents die off. Conspiracy theories don’t respond to evidence: evidence contrary to the theory is transformed into evidence of the size and power of the conspiracy.”

    Is Birtherism really a bunch of conspiracy theories? I’m not seeing that. Could be that is a flaw with me because my mind isn’t programmed to look for that. That also might explain why many of the comments seem strange to me. I’ll have to look at it from that angle. I do see a healthy number of the American citizenry believing that our public servants at the federal level are no longer acting accountable to those that elected them to a position of power. It’s like these servants see themselves as having won an all expenses paid free daily shopping spree for the length of their term. ~grin~ Hey, the polls back me up on that.

  127. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 26, 2012 at 4:28 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: OMG!!! I just thought of a way the Birthers could actually have a really good chance to get to see the Long Form Birth Certificate. I am being TOTALLY serious here!!! Sure I reveal this,or should I go into hiding sooo nobody could get it out of my lips???Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

    That nothing. When the republicans in the lower house find their backbone they can use their subpoena power to get all the documents/records that are being questioned.

  128. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) March 26, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    Rambo Ike: Dr. Conspiracy: “If birtherism is, as I and other writers about conspiracy theories believe it is, a conspiracy theory, then it is not a “rational argument” and it is not solvable through rational means. So, I’d ask you in turn, when was any conspiracy ever “resolved” in the negative? You might find an example, but generally conspiracy theories last until they become irrelevant or all the proponents die off. Conspiracy theories don’t respond to evidence: evidence contrary to the theory is transformed into evidence of the size and power of the conspiracy.”Is Birtherism really a bunch of conspiracy theories? I’m not seeing that. Could be that is a flaw with me because my mind isn’t programmed to look for that. That also might explain why many of the comments seem strange to me. I’ll have to look at it from that angle. I do see a healthy number of the American citizenry believing that our public servants at the federal level are no longer acting accountable to those that elected them to a position of power. It’s like these servants see themselves as having won an all expenses paid free daily shopping spree for the length of their term. ~grin~ Hey, the polls back me up on that.

    I find it funny how these kinds of comments about no longer acting accountable to the American citizenry always seem coincide with a Democrat being elected president.

  129. avatar
    JPotter March 26, 2012 at 4:36 pm #

    Rambo Ike: Is Birtherism really a bunch of conspiracy theories? I’m not seeing that. Could be that is a flaw with me because my mind isn’t programmed to look for that. That also might explain why many of the comments seem strange to me.

    And the discussion comes round again to psychology, right where it was a year ago, when The Believing Brain was released a week after WTBC?

    Conspiracy theories …. you either recognize’em, or risk believing in them.

    Nah, i just wish it was that simple. The variety of nuttery is yet another reinforcement … “You think birthers are crazy? No, UFO nuts is crazy!” …. good old relativism.

    Skepticism is your only defense. Don’t buy into any claims that cannot be rationally, reasonable, objectively explained. Know your own biases, and treat extraordinary claioms with extraordinary care.

  130. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 26, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I find it funny how these kinds of comments about no longer acting accountable to the American citizenry always seem coincide with a Democrat being elected president.

    You missed by such a distance that you don’t even get a booby prize. Same stats during part of Bush’s 1 term and all of his 2nd.

  131. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 26, 2012 at 4:58 pm #

    Rambo Ike: Is Birtherism really a bunch of conspiracy theories? I’m not seeing that. Could be that is a flaw with me because my mind isn’t programmed to look for that.

    I have replaced this comment with the following article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/is-birtherism-really-a-bunch-of-conspiracy-theories/

  132. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 26, 2012 at 5:03 pm #

    G: Agreed. There is NO “3rd side” anymore. Maybe there was during the initial year of this contrived “controversy”, when these crazy allegations were first being made and had to be looked into, but not anymore. All actual evidence that emerged ALL corroborated Obama’s birth story and all the crazy claims have been repeatedly debunked. No serious minded person with a genuine curiosity could look at the mountain of evidence and walk away a Birther. No, only folks with a terminal case of ODS who are looking for an excuse for their hatred are susceptible to swallowing this swill.So no, even though some Birthers hate being called “Birthers”, they are still Birthers if they fall for or try to peddle any of this cr@p. There is no “3rd side” at all. Only Concern Trolls pretending in order to push their Birther propaganda, because that is what Concern Trolls do…

    G, you need to go to the “Not happy” thread and read my last response to you.

  133. avatar
    JPotter March 26, 2012 at 5:08 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I asked that question from the very beginning of this blog,

    Reads like an excellent post … a great start on an eventual (God-willing) post mortem.

  134. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater March 26, 2012 at 5:12 pm #

    Rambo Ike: You missed by such a distance that you don’t even get a booby prize. Same stats during part of Bush’s 1 term and all of his 2nd.

    if by same stats you mean those who thought George E.g. Bush was a good president and those who think we lost our country 27% I’d say you have something

  135. avatar
    G March 26, 2012 at 5:36 pm #

    Yes.

    Rambo Ike:
    Is Birtherism really a bunch of conspiracy theories?

    Yes, you certainly need to spend considerable time reflecting upon your obvious litany of strong pre-conceived biases and look at how they color your thinking. On another forum, you made it quite obvious that an irrational fear of Muslims consumes a lot of your impulse reactions. If you wish to actually engage in real rational thinking, you need to set your emotional biases aside. Actual rational thought does NOT start with a pre-conceived conclusion and merely cherry-pick speculations that reinforce it and ignore everything that counters it. Sadly, that is all you have demonstrated so far. I really hope you will try to make a serious attempt to look beyond your own biased blinders.

    Rambo Ike:
    I’m not seeing that. Could be that is a flaw with me because my mind isn’t programmed to look for that. That also might explain why many of the comments seem strange to me. I’ll have to look at it from that angle.

    You need to be careful of using such oversimplified generalizations as part of your rationalization process. All you do is end up creating false correlations and strawmen arguments as a result. That is nothing but a glib dodge technique for those who don’t actually want to think hard or serious about an issue.

    Yes, OF COURSE there are a lot of systemic problems with government accountability and with both the practices of politicians and politics in general. However, you seem to just be suckered into the hype anger and remaining distracted from any actual solutions that would work towards mitigating those systemic problems. The real source of the problem is the excessive extent of influence that special interest money can be brought to bear on all levels of the political system – from campaigning for office to lobbyist efforts once in office.

    No matter how sincere someone is about being a “public servant”, it is exceedingly difficult for them to obtain office or succeed without having to succumb to a certain level of pressure from the various competing big money interests they need to appease in order to not only get into public office, but also to get anything accomplished once they are there.

    Rambo Ike:
    I do see a healthy number of the American citizenry believing that our public servants at the federal level are no longer acting accountable to those that elected them to a position of power. It’s like these servants see themselves as having won an all expenses paid free daily shopping spree for the length of their term. ~grin~ Hey, the polls back me up on that.

  136. avatar
    G March 26, 2012 at 5:44 pm #

    LOL! Sorry, but there were ZERO objections from Congress in certifying his election in 2008 for a reason – because the claims of Birtherism are just silly nonsense.

    Although certain members (particularly in the House) might be legitimately crazy or stupid, most folks in office have enough political savvy and sense to differentiate between real issues and complete myths; despite the pandering they present to pacify certain elements of their “base”.

    Even if the GOP held majorities in both chambers, they would not throw away their remaining credibility on such an untenable political witch-hunt stunt.

    No, as dumb as Congress can come across at times, it is completely implausible that they would ever entertain pulling a stunt that dumb. Birtherism is nothing but a set of false myths and a complete joke and most of them fully know it.

    Rambo Ike: That nothing. When the republicans in the lower house find their backbone they can use their subpoena power to get all the documents/records that are being questioned.

  137. avatar
    nbc March 26, 2012 at 5:53 pm #

    Rambo Ike: That nothing. When the republicans in the lower house find their backbone they can use their subpoena power to get all the documents/records that are being questioned.

    Why would they do such a foolish thing? We know for a fact that President Obama was born on US soil. How much more do you want to harass a president? This is such a non-issue.

  138. avatar
    GLaB March 26, 2012 at 6:19 pm #

    Rambo Ike: 0bama’s … intellectually honest

    Rambo Ike: I see you’re back. When you bailed out last night, my theory is that your keyboard burst into flames when you typed “intellectually honest” and you had to go out and get a replacement.

    But now that you’re back, how about a little test of YOUR “intellectual honesty.” Two quick questions:

    (1) What is the President’s real name? Come on Mr. Open-Minded-3rd-Side, you can do it. Type O-b-a-m-a.

    (2) Referring to the actual material facts reported and documented in this story by Dr. Conspiracy – namely that neither Barack Obama Sr. nor Stanley Ann Dunham Obama flew into the U.S. from Kenya within the year framed around Barack Obama III’s birth – it’s ALL SETTLED, right? Come on, type it out: P-r-e-s-i-d-e-n-t O-b-a-m-a w-a-s N-O-T b-o-r-n i-n K-e-n-y-a.

    I assure you when you type and enter those facts your new keyboard will NOT explode into flames. As for your head – that I can’t predict.

  139. avatar
    BillTheCat March 26, 2012 at 6:32 pm #

    Rambo Ike: I do see a healthy number of the American citizenry believing that our public servants at the federal level are no longer acting accountable to those that elected them to a position of power. It’s like these servants see themselves as having won an all expenses paid free daily shopping spree for the length of their term. ~grin~ Hey, the polls back me up on that .

    No, the polls do not reflect your assertion. And sorry, WND and Rassmussen polling don’t count, lol.

    Funny thing about your patriotic “concern” for our nation – the concern only started last election. Really, funny thing that. Must be just a coincidence, right?

  140. avatar
    G March 26, 2012 at 6:38 pm #

    I have read and replied to your latest nonsense there.

    Rambo Ike: G, you need to go to the “Not happy” thread and read my last response to you.

  141. avatar
    jayHG March 26, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    Northland10: Corsi and Co. probably thought that pink underware sheriff might be well known enough to give them the the larger audience they seek. Having the press ingnore them ruins their primary goal and gives them a sad.

    Actually, this is what I was thinking……and they told Arpaio this and Arpaio, giant ego that he has, thougt so, too. Then when he was laughed at, he (Arpaio) got all pissed off and now has doubled down, and ultimately will leave office in disgrace and everyone will wonder what took him so long…

  142. avatar
    Rickey March 26, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    Rambo Ike:

    I do see a healthy number of the American citizenry believing that our public servants at the federal level are no longer acting accountable to those that elected them to a position of power. It’s like these servants see themselves as having won an all expenses paid free daily shopping spree for the length of their term. ~grin~ Hey, the polls back me up on that.

    If you are going to cite polls, it would enhance your credibility if you provided links to the polls you are referring to. Otherwise there is an inclination to suspect that you just made them up.

    As for Congress, It is true that the poll numbers for Congress are in the toilet, but it is unclear if that reflects a belief that the people in Congress are just in it for themselves. I also will add that Republicans in Congress fare considerably worse than Democrats.

    Democrats: Approve 34% Disapprove 60% Unsure 6%

    http://pollingreport.com/cong_dem.htm

    Republicans: Approve 23%, Disapprove 71%, Unsure 6%

    http://pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm

  143. avatar
    misha March 26, 2012 at 7:27 pm #

    Rickey:
    Democrats: Approve 34% Disapprove 60% Unsure 6%
    Republicans: Approve 23%, Disapprove 71%, Unsure 6%

    Yeah, but what are the figures for unicorns and the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

  144. avatar
    Scientist March 26, 2012 at 7:31 pm #

    Rambo Ike: I do see a healthy number of the American citizenry believing that our public servants at the federal level are no longer acting accountable to those that elected them to a position of power

    As far as birtherism, the majority of Congresscritters are acting in a very accountable fashion-refusing to waste taxpayer dollars and embarass the country by pursuing baseless nonsense. A few of the sleazier members have waved hands in the direction of birthers, but even the dumbest and sleaziest of them have restrained themselves from pooping their own nest.

  145. avatar
    misha March 26, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    BillTheCat: Funny thing about your patriotic “concern” for our nation – the concern only started last election.

    In his January 2003 State of the Union speech, President George W. Bush said, “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries

    Creating WMDs from whole cloth, so Cheney’s cronies could get their paws on oil. Stanger than fiction.

    How many have come back from Iraq missing eyes, limbs, 3rd degree burns, psych cases…I’m waiting.

  146. avatar
    Paper March 26, 2012 at 10:11 pm #

    When you are cornered in your lies, not once, not twice, but three times, then wear your lies proudly, firmly ensconced upon your head. And, sing:

    Mein Hut, der hat drei Ecken,
    Drei Ecken hat mein Hut.
    Und hätt’ er nicht drei Ecken,
    So wär’s auch nicht mein Hut

    The Magic M: It even rhymes:

    Wer dreimal lügt, dem glaubt man nicht
    Auch wenn er jetzt die Wahrheit spricht

  147. avatar
    Keith March 26, 2012 at 11:54 pm #

    Lancelot Link:
    If you think they look stupid now, just wait until their new birther buddy Lord Monckton gets going.

    Ah yes! Monckton is Sacha Baron Cohen’s greatest creation!

    But I hadn’t heard he was weighing in on the birther bandwagon.

  148. avatar
    G March 27, 2012 at 12:15 am #

    LOL! That “Lord” Monckton as the latest Sacha Baron Cohen creation clip was priceless!

    That creepy bug-eyed strange guy is truly in a class of crazy all by himself.

    And yes, he’s been a Birther for quite some time. He’s made the rounds with birther claims very recently (while claiming he’s not “a Birther”)…but he pretty much did the same thing to a Tea Party crowd back in 2009…so yeah, he’s been a Birther for quite some time and when you combine that with all the rest of his absolutely insane positions, there is very little surprise in that at all…

    Keith: Ah yes! Monckton is Sacha Baron Cohen’s greatest creation!But I hadn’t heard he was weighing in on the birther bandwagon.

  149. avatar
    misha March 27, 2012 at 12:21 am #

    US Citizen: So…. they hate Sammy Davis, Jr?

    Don’t forget Elizabeth Taylor.

  150. avatar
    misha March 27, 2012 at 12:43 am #

    The Magic M: It even rhymes:
    Wer dreimal lügt, dem glaubt man nicht
    Auch wenn er jetzt die Wahrheit spricht

    Sorry, I still prefer “Die Moritat von Mackie Messer”:

    A word of caution to the Denialists:

    Denn die einen sind im Dunkeln
    Und die andern sind im Licht
    Und man siehet die im Lichte
    Die im Dunkeln sieht man nicht

  151. avatar
    The Magic M March 27, 2012 at 7:27 am #

    Paper: When you are cornered in your lies, not once, not twice, but three times, then wear your lies proudly, firmly ensconced upon your head. And, sing:

    Mein Hut, der hat drei Ecken,

    And some final words of consolation from Germany for birthers with respect to early 2017:

    Alles hat ein Ende, nur die Wurst hat zwei

    (“Everything has an end, only a sausage has two”)

    misha: Sorry, I still prefer “Die Moritat von Mackie Messer”

    If in doubt, Goethe’s “Faust” has an answer to everything; he even described birthers quite aptly:

    Er scheint mir, mit Verlaub von Euer Gnaden
    Wie eine der langbeinigen Zikaden
    Die immer fliegt und fliegend springt
    Und gleich im Gras ihr altes Liedchen singt
    Und läg’ er nur noch immer in dem Grase –
    In jeden Quark vergräbt er seine Nase

    (I pride myself that I can still recite Mephisto’s lines by heart some 20 years after learning them in school).

  152. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 27, 2012 at 1:58 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: There is something cosmically wrong when a birther invokes “intellectual honesty.”

    How many times need I tell you I’m not a Birther. There are many aspects within the position of Birthers that I don’t agree with, though not as many as I’m finding with the 0b0ts’s.

    Also, from the beginning, I’ve seen, by my own standards, the Birthers on a higher calling: The search for the TRUTH. This is where they have yas beat.

  153. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 27, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    Well why don’t you take this occasion to give us some bullet points about exactly what you believe and you don’t believe?

    I will be holding any of your other comments until I hear from you on this matter.

    Rambo Ike: How many times need I tell you I’m not a Birther. There are many aspects within the position of Birthers that I don’t agree with, though not as many as I’m finding with the 0b0ts’s.

  154. avatar
    nbc March 27, 2012 at 2:38 pm #

    Rambo Ike: Also, from the beginning, I’ve seen, by my own standards, the Birthers on a higher calling: The search for the TRUTH. This is where they have yas beat.

    Yes, where TRUTH has been defined as ‘President Obama could never be eligible’ and all the efforts are to support this.

    So far it’s the birthers who have engaged in quite poor research, misleading claims, and have shown little interest in the truth as determined from known facts.

    As such, this says more about your own standards than about reality.

  155. avatar
    BillTheCat March 27, 2012 at 2:38 pm #

    Rambo Ike: How many times need I tell you I’m not a Birther. There are many aspects within the position of Birthers that I don’t agree with, though not as many as I’m finding with the 0b0ts’s. Also, from the beginning, I’ve seen, by my own standards, the Birthers on a higher calling: The search for the TRUTH. This is where they have yas beat.

    lol yes, your made-up version of the “Truth”.

    Oh glorious and noble birthers, who fight for us to find the real and true TRUTH, there is no higher calling than this search to set us all free!

    “Higher calling” my ass. More like sugar-coated BS. Let me know when you “have us beat” in court, any court, just once.

  156. avatar
    Jim March 27, 2012 at 2:53 pm #

    Looks like the good Sheriff is having another Press Conference

    http://obamaballotchallenge.com/another-arpaio-press-conference-in-an-hour-317-130-pm-mt

    Wonder which of his problems he’s going to talk about now?

  157. avatar
    John Woodman March 27, 2012 at 3:16 pm #

    I have seen Rambo Ike in a recent debate with Mario Apuzzo cheering Mr. Apuzzo on and crowing that he thought Mr. Apuzzo had landed a great punch.

    That is not the mark of someone who’s interested in the debate for the sake of uncovering the truth. That’s the mark of someone who’s picked his side and has no thought of anything other than cheering for that side, regardless of what the actual truth might be.

    Ike says he’s not a birther. That claim rings about as true as a cat claiming he’s not at all interested in canaries.

  158. avatar
    John Woodman March 27, 2012 at 3:18 pm #

    This is also reminiscent of the whole Birther-English Dictionary that I put together, where I started from the premise that birthers were actually telling the truth, and then defined terms to make it come out that way.

    My definition of truth:

    truth – n., any claim whatsoever that supports the idea that Barack Obama is not legally President of the United States, whether based in fact or reality, or not.

  159. avatar
    John Woodman March 27, 2012 at 3:21 pm #

    I’ll go one further: Ike’s claim that he’s not a birther rings as true as a wolf claiming that his interest in chickens has strictly and solely to do an innocent hobby of bird-watching.

  160. avatar
    richCares March 27, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    In press conference on 3/27/2012 Sheriff Joe says “I told my guys to clear the president, I’m tired of this birth certificate. Clear him and let’s get it over with. Unfortunately, we can’t clear him. So we are looking into that.”

    So why were only birthers involved in this silly posse, is it possible he is just lying? He really asked birthers to clear Obama? bridge for sale!

  161. avatar
    Daniel March 27, 2012 at 4:02 pm #

    Rambo Ike: How many times need I tell you I’m not a Birther.

    How many times do you think we’ve seen birther concern trolls in here claiming not to be birthers but just having “concerns” or “doubts” or “looking at it for themselves”?

    Concern trolling is older than the internet, and pathetically transparent. Your’s isn’t even a very good iteration of that.

  162. avatar
    G March 27, 2012 at 4:20 pm #

    Agreed.

    Simply put, those who spout and push any of the Birther talking points are Birthers – PERIOD. Rambo Ike is a clear Birther and has been Concern Trolling Birther talking points on various websites for quite a long time. He may not actually believe any of the cr@p he spews, but that doesn’t change what he is for pushing this nonsense. A good portion of the Birthers out there are likely nothing more than con artists and smear merchant propagandists, just like Rambo Ike. It has nothing to do with what they might really believe down deep in their hearts and everything to do with the false memes of Birtherism, which they champion and push.

    All Rambo Ike and his Birther ilk are about are ODS based irrational hatred and lies. Those are certainly NOT a “higher calling” and have ZERO connection to dealing with the truth.

    Daniel: How many times do you think we’ve seen birther concern trolls in here claiming not to be birthers but just having “concerns” or “doubts” or “looking at it for themselves”?Concern trolling is older than the internet, and pathetically transparent. Your’s isn’t even a very good iteration of that.

  163. avatar
    G March 27, 2012 at 4:25 pm #

    That is the problem here. We have various groups of people that simply try to redefine words to mean something other than what they actually mean. That is simply deceitful propaganda.

    The Birther definition of truth has no more connection to the real definition of truth than someone deciding to refer to the sun as the moon and call the ground the sky.

    John Woodman: This is also reminiscent of the whole Birther-English Dictionary that I put together, where I started from the premise that birthers were actually telling the truth, and then defined terms to make it come out that way.

    My definition of truth:
    truth – n., any claim whatsoever that supports the idea that Barack Obama is not legally President of the United States, whether based in fact or reality, or not.

  164. avatar
    Paper March 27, 2012 at 4:33 pm #

    See, that’s why we moderates believe in compromise. Rambo Ike is not a cat, fine, but he still likes canaries. Everybody’s right! Don’t need to call someone a birther for them to talk nonsense. I say let him call himself whatever he wants. We’ll make a deal. He chooses his title, but acknowledges he speaks nonsense. Then everybody’s on the same page.

    John Woodman: That claim rings about as true as a cat claiming he’s not at all interested in canaries.

    I’ll go one further: Ike’s claim that he’s not a birther rings as true as a wolf claiming that his interest in chickens has strictly and solely to do an innocent hobby of bird-watching.

  165. avatar
    misha March 27, 2012 at 4:34 pm #

    John Woodman: Birther-English Dictionary: truth – n., any claim whatsoever that supports the idea that Barack Obama is not legally President of the United States, whether based in fact or reality, or not.

    Patriotism – The last refuge of a scoundrel. (Samuel Johnson)

  166. avatar
    Paper March 27, 2012 at 4:40 pm #

    More compromise for ‘ya. I’ll give you, or rather birthers, an interest in, even a search for truth. Fits the birthers I myself know. But you see, the problem is they only search in their navels. Lint only goes so far.

    Rambo Ike:
    Also, from the beginning, I’ve seen, by my own standards, the Birthers on a higher calling: The search for the TRUTH. This is where they have yas beat.

  167. avatar
    misha March 27, 2012 at 4:51 pm #

    Jim: Looks like the good Sheriff is having another Press Conference

    I signed up for an alert when the video is posted.

  168. avatar
    G March 27, 2012 at 5:29 pm #

    I consider myself to be a pragmatic moderate, but I certainly don’t support the notion of “everyone’s right”. That is a type of dangerous false equivocation to me and that very concept has led to a lot of the damage to rational reasoning we see out there today.

    Some notions are simply flat out wrong. For example, there is ZERO reason to listen to both sides of an “argument” on the issue of a Heliocentric solar system vs. a geocentric universe. The Earth is simply NOT flat and is NOT the center of the universe – PERIOD. We know that not from mere “belief” but from an overwhelming solid body of clear evidence and testing. So, in such examples, there is simply what is true and what amounts to nothing but silly ficticious notions that don’t even deserve a table in the room. There is no “compromise” that can happen in such cases.

    Further, the very term “compromise” is another perfect example of where a word has been “redefined” by one side’s lexicon to infer something other than what was intended.

    Nowadays, the term “compromise” is viewed as just another synonym for capitulation . The left certainly deserves some blame for why this redefinition has taken hold in the general populace, as there are many examples of where they simply “give in” on positions without getting anything in return. The other side is not going to respect such naive weakness and will simply continue to push for full capitulation. So, due to these poor examples in practice, the term “compromise” has almost become redefined as merely “selling out”. Neither “capitulation” nor “selling out” are appealing concepts, regardless of what side of the political spectrum you fall on. Therefore, when the term “compromise” has become poisoned in our lexicon to be frequently construed as meaning those other terms, it has lost its value as a term that defines a workable process towards achieving pragmatic solutions towards maximum benefit for all.

    A better synonym for what is actually intented (and needed) by “compromise” is “consensus negotiation”.

    Paper: See, that’s why we moderates believe in compromise. Rambo Ike is not a cat, fine, but he still likes canaries. Everybody’s right! Don’t need to call someone a birther for them to talk nonsense. I say let him call himself whatever he wants. We’ll make a deal. He chooses his title, but acknowledges he speaks nonsense. Then everybody’s on the same page.

  169. avatar
    G March 27, 2012 at 5:32 pm #

    Here is a site that claims they have a tape up of the press conference at 7pm EST:

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/video-of-sheriff-joe-arpaio-press-conference-coming-soon/

    Of course, it is a WND-affiliated site…no surprise there…

    misha: I signed up for an alert when the video is posted.

    Jim: Looks like the good Sheriff is having another Press Conferencehttp://obamaballotchallenge.com/another-arpaio-press-conference-in-an-hour-317-130-pm-mtWonder which of his problems he’s going to talk about now?

  170. avatar
    John Woodman March 27, 2012 at 5:47 pm #

    richCares: So why were only birthers involved in this silly posse, is it possible he is just lying? He really asked birthers to clear Obama? bridge for sale!

    Whether Arpaio asked the CCP to “clear Obama” or not, I see no sign that they attempted to do that. I personally contacted Arpaio’s office twice to offer my help, and mentioned to them that I had authored a book on the subject. Corsi had 18 hours to present the birther case to them. They never contacted me.

  171. avatar
    misha March 27, 2012 at 6:04 pm #

    John Woodman: I personally contacted Arpaio’s office twice to offer my help, and mentioned to them that I had authored a book on the subject. Corsi had 18 hours to present the birther case to them. They never contacted me.

    Don’t confuse me with the facts; I’ve already made up my mind.

  172. avatar
    Paper March 27, 2012 at 6:20 pm #

    Tongue in cheek, G.

    The important part was that he admits he speaks nonsense. Thus, he can say, by way of analogy, that he is not a cigarette as much as he likes, as long as he admits his ideas cause “cancer” in the body politic.

    By the way, I find that generally speaking I agree with what you post, which I mention because sometimes I agree eerily so.

    G:
    I consider myself to be a pragmatic moderate, but I certainly don’t support the notion of “everyone’s right”.That is a type of dangerous false equivocation to me and that very concept has led to a lot of the damage to rational reasoning we see out there today.

  173. avatar
    BillTheCat March 27, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    G: Here is a site that claims they have a tape up of the press conference at 7pm EST:http://www.westernjournalism.com/video-of-sheriff-joe-arpaio-press-conference-coming-soon/Of course, it is a WND-affiliated site…no surprise there…

    Turns out it was rather underwhelming.

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/03/joe_arpaio_and_the_birther_gan.php

  174. avatar
    Paper March 27, 2012 at 6:29 pm #

    G, Rambo Ike said he is not a birther. Rather than trying to force a title upon him, and argue with him about what he should be called, I’ll grant him what he wants. But only if he agrees his comments are full of c*&p. That’s called a hard bargain, not a capitulation.

  175. avatar
    Rickey March 27, 2012 at 6:42 pm #

    Rambo Ike: How many times need I tell you I’m not a Birther. There are many aspects within the position of Birthers that I don’t agree with, though not as many as I’m finding with the 0b0ts’s.

    Also, from the beginning, I’ve seen, by my own standards, the Birthers on a higher calling: The search for the TRUTH. This is where they have yas beat.

    Speaking of the truth, I’m still waiting for you to back up your claim that “the polls back me up on that.”

    One of the characteristics of birthers is that they never, ever admit it when they are proven wrong.

  176. avatar
    G March 27, 2012 at 6:54 pm #

    I actually took your intent as such.

    However, I simply used it to piggyback onto making a broader public point about the issue of how specific terminonlogy has been abused in the public sphere and to draw attention to the inherent dangers of such, in how it reinforces false memes of perception out there.

    I couldn’t miss the opportinity to continue pressing on that theme, which has become part of the underlying conversation on this particular thread, particularly when you introduced the catnip phrase of “compromise” – a term that was forefront in my mind as an example I was considering bringing up myself… and you just conveniently opened up an avenue for me to use it to drive that point further home.

    Yes, I agree the important part is that he admits he speaks nonsense. And he does so by abusing and twisting the use of words to represent something other than what they actually mean.

    Paper: Tongue in cheek, G. The important part was that he admits he speaks nonsense. Thus, he can say, by way of analogy, that he is not a cigarette as much as he likes, as long as he admits his ideas cause “cancer” in the body politic. By the way, I find that generally speaking I agree with what you post, which I mention because sometimes I agree eerily so.

    Careful – what you’ve just stated will only work and achieve your intent as long as you adhere to that conditiional and truly make it a “hard bargain”.

    In other words, you cannot back away from openly calling him a Birther UNTIL he satisfies the condition that you set forth of agreeing that his comments are “full of cr@p”.

    Yes, in reality, we both highly doubt that he ever will – the hard-core Birthers (both the “true believers” and the “intentional propagandists”) seem to suffer from a severe integrity defect of being able to own up to their mistakes and bad actions.

    Therefore, I expect to see you openly call him out as a Birther for quite some time. To refrain from doing so, without him satisfying that specific condition, would amount to nothing more than de facto capitiulation on your part.

    Paper: G, Rambo Ike said he is not a birther. Rather than trying to force a title upon him, and argue with him about what he should be called, I’ll grant him what he wants. But only if he agrees his comments are full of c*&p. That’s called a hard bargain, not a capitulation.

  177. avatar
    Sef March 27, 2012 at 7:16 pm #

    Rambo Ike: How many times need I tell you I’m not a Birther

    If you question whether President Obama is eligible for the presidency, or seek to have others question it, you are a birther.

  178. avatar
    Paper March 27, 2012 at 7:19 pm #

    Oh, you caught me there!

    Of course, it is a faux negotiation to make a point, knowing full well no one is going to agree to anything.

    Be that as it may…Rambo Ike is a birther. By any other name, ye shall know them by these signs…

    G: Therefore, I expect to see you openly call him out as a Birther for quite some time. To refrain from doing so, without him satisfying that specific condition, would amount to nothing more than de facto capitiulation on your part.

  179. avatar
    Paper March 27, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    G, I can use lower case “b” birther, though, right? ;-}

  180. avatar
    aarrgghh March 27, 2012 at 8:44 pm #

    G: As far as elections go, I understand that you are a Libertarian, Aarrgghh.

    close, but no cigar. actually i’m your classic “far-left” liberal (fdr, lbj, jfk) who thinks we need more bernie sanders and fewer “blue dogs”. i find libertarian positions, especially on civil liberties, already represented by liberals, while i find the rest of their philosophy, especially regarding free markets, sketchy or incomplete, which makes them sound a bit naive.

  181. avatar
    misha March 27, 2012 at 9:34 pm #

    aarrgghh: i find libertarian positions, especially on civil liberties, already represented by liberals, while i find the rest of their philosophy, especially regarding free markets, sketchy or incomplete, which makes them sound a bit naive.

    “A free society will abide unofficial, private discrimination, even when that means allowing hate-filled groups to exclude people based on the color of their skin.”

    — Rand Paul (R), in a letter to the Bowling Green Daily News in 2002.

  182. avatar
    G March 27, 2012 at 9:54 pm #

    😉 of course.

    I often chose to say Birther instead of birther, simply because I personally view it as a proper name describing this cult phenomenon.

    But I fully view that as simply a matter of personal choice and that there are many valid arguments for using either lower case or upper case with that terminology.

    Paper: G, I can use lower case “b” birther, though, right? ;-}

  183. avatar
    Paper March 27, 2012 at 10:10 pm #

    So we do differ, great! Beyond not thinking them of a cohesive group, I myself don’t think they deserve the dignity of a capital letter.

    G:
    of course.

    I often chose to say Birther instead of birther, simply because I personally view it as a proper name describing this cult phenomenon.

    But I fully view that as simply a matter of personal choice and that there are many valid arguments for using either lower case or upper case with that terminology.

  184. avatar
    G March 27, 2012 at 10:13 pm #

    Thank you for explaining that and I stand corrected. I’m sorry for misrepresenting your positions.

    I too consider FDR, LBJ, JFK to be amongst the best of our 20th century presidents.

    I too view many of the part of the libertarian “free market” philosophy to be naive and utterly not practical for dealing with the modern day real-world.

    Other than that, you are probably quite a bit to the left of me on issues, I would suspect. I think Bernie Sanders is a really nice guy and I can respect a number of his heartfelt positions, but some of them come across as too idealistic and not pragmatic to me as well. I really like my Senator Sherrod Brown though. But I also was generally content and supportive of my former Senator George Voinovich too. So you would probably consider my tastes to be too far to the right for some of your interests… just a guess.

    I too can’t stand most of the Blue Dogs, but I’m not sure if our reasons for that are the same. What bothers me about them is that they called themselves “moderate”, but in my view, were just using that term meaninglessly to cover for the fact that just about all of them are really nothing but bought and paid for shills for various big corporate special interests. Many of the Blue Dogs seemed to have the heaviest focus on pushing watered-down legislation that just happened to match up with the interests of their biggest political donors. I realize that happens to a certain extent with most politicians, but it seems to me that the Blue Dogs tended to be more corrupt as a group then the whole.

    I certainly don’t see them as true “moderates” and find it offensive that they use that term as a cover for being the bought-and-sold corporatist shills that they’ve turned out to be. If they were true moderates in the classical and pragmatic sense, they would be of the mold of what I actually want in a politician.

    But hey, was I at least right about you being a big Incredible Hulk fan? Or did I get that one wrong too….?

    aarrgghh: close, but no cigar. actually i’m your classic “far-left” liberal (fdr, lbj, jfk) who thinks we need more bernie sanders and fewer “blue dogs”. i find libertarian positions, especially on civil liberties, already represented by liberals, while i find the rest of their philosophy, especially regarding free markets, sketchy or incomplete, which makes them sound a bit naive.

  185. avatar
    G March 27, 2012 at 10:18 pm #

    I can completely understand and respect that position. I’m sure there are many other areas in which we differ too (in a happy, healthy and respectful way), but yes, I find an amazing amount of overall synergistic thinking between you, me and J. Potter. I read a lot of both of your posts and the first thought that pops in my head is “dang, they beat me too it and were reading my mind…” 😉

    I just hope you don’t hold it against me when I capitalize the term… simply consider it a “bad habit” of mine. Heck, I’ll even go as far as ceding the point and saying that your rationale for NOT capitalizing it is much better than mine for doing so. 😉

    Paper: So we do differ, great! Beyond not thinking them of a cohesive group, I myself don’t think they deserve the dignity of a capital letter.

  186. avatar
    Majority Will March 27, 2012 at 10:22 pm #

    Anyone else getting sick of the photo above of Corsi the Professional Clown with that stupid smirk on his face?

  187. avatar
    J. Potter March 28, 2012 at 12:01 am #

    Majority Will:
    Anyone else getting sick of the photo above of Corsi the Professional Clown with that stupid smirk on his face?

    I suspect I loathe it in the same way a birther instinctually loathes the WH LFBC PDF. 😉

    I just want to ask not only what the heck the star’n’bars is doing on that lapel, but double what-the-heck it’s doing aboveOld Glory. Yeah, it was the ’90s, it was a weird time for everyone, but gimme a break.

  188. avatar
    aarrgghh March 28, 2012 at 12:46 am #

    G: … you are probably quite a bit to the left of me on issues, I would suspect. … So you would probably consider my tastes to be too far to the right for some of your interests… just a guess.

    i’ve always been uncomfortable with right-left conservative-liberal framing and always been ready to listen to any rational argument, but since today’s conservatives have dropped all pretense and officially made the gop the party of anti-scientism, anti-intellectualism and every other assortment of know-nothingism, by simple default liberalism has become synonymous with reason and sanity.

    G: … But hey, was I at least right about you being a big Incredible Hulk fan?Or did I get that one wrong too….?

    yes, aarrgghh SMASH!!!

  189. avatar
    misha March 28, 2012 at 1:03 am #

    G: But hey, was I at least right about you being a big Incredible Hulk fan?

    The Hulk is Jewish: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0608/novick_hulk.php3

  190. avatar
    G March 28, 2012 at 1:32 am #

    Agreed! Which is probably why it never got released anywhere near its promised “delivery” time on the Bither sites. The full video is finally up now. They posted it just before midnight, EST, as far as I can gather:

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/03/video-of-todays-sheriff-joe-and-arizona.html

    My speculative guess for the late dump is a “face saving” attempt to both delay dropping such a disappointing turd on their Birther followers, yet still make it appear to be a “same day” release, so such disappointment might go unnoticed and not carry over too much into the next day’s news cycle.

    I forced myself to watch the whole lame thing… actually, the screen is quite boring, so if you torture yourself to do the same, I recommend doing what I ended up doing – let the audio play in the background and get something more productive done while trying to stay awake through it.

    Or best advice – simply read the very accurate write-up you cited below, at The Phoenix Times.

    Shorter summary of what this was all about:

    Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio and the “birther” gang — now including legislators — held a press conference at the capitol today to push state Representative Carl Seel’s “birther” bill.

    Today’s press conference made it pretty clear (as if it wasn’t already) that the bill is aimed at President Obama, as people are still trying to push the continuously debunked conspiracy that the president was born in another country.

    Arpaio and Seel were joined by “birther” squad lead investigator Mike Zullo, Representative David Burnell Smith, Senator Lori Klein, and some tea party folks to speak on behalf of Seel’s bill. State Representative Jack Harper was also in the audience, as was infamous conspiracy nut Jerome Corsi.

    Seel explained he was holding the press conference to bring some awareness to his bill, which is currently stuck in a Senate committee he claims it should be withdrawn from.

    Arpaio also claimed there’s a total “media blackout” and “censorship” on the topic of his investigation into Obama — which isn’t true, considering what we have filed under “Birthers (sigh).”

    Zullo was also prepared to give some sort of abbreviated version of the “birther” investigation results, but a laptop malfunction got us out of that one.

    Seel said his bill’s likely toast if it’s not heard by Monday, and urged the public to call up legislators to let them know how you feel about it.

    Yeah, so yeah, this is nothing but a desperate attempt to use the media as a propaganda wedge (typical WND strategy) to bully this Birther Bill through an AZ legislature that seems to have little appetite to go down this stupid failed road again and would rather run out the clock and let it die in committee.

    The biggest piece of IRONY is *where* the BIrther Bill is stuck in committee purgatory and even better – WHY:

    You see, Representative Seel used a dirty trick to sneak his Birther Bill onto the legislative agenda in the first place – he used a very shady process called a “Striker Bill” – in which they introduce a Bill under an entirely different premise and title and then, once it passes the basic hurdles to move forward into final committee reviews, they “strike” out ALL the content of that original bill and REPLACE it with their completely unrelated new bill.

    The best part is that the original bill obviously had something to do with health and had “health” in the title. Obviously, the BIrther Bill does not have any connection to such issues at all. But because the original pre-Striker Bill content DID, the Bill ended up in the HEALTH committee…and is currently stuck in purgatory there….

    LMAO! Once again, silly underhanded Birther tricks only serve to backfire on them…

    So yeah, I guess that was the one juicy tidbit from listening to the actual audio that I gleemed. If you want to hear it for yourself, you can skip towards the end. It comes up in the Q&A with Seel towards the last 5 or so minutes of this 20+ minute “press conference”

    ANOTHER NOTE: I’m also seeing reports on Birther sites that Apraio’s next big promised “press conference” (yeah, the March 31st one being held at a small church) will now NOT be carried live either – and here is their excuse for why:

    but they want to encourage live attendance. Since they can’t black out Internet broadcasts in a 100 mile radius, they want people to show up and be festive! There will still be reports/videos afterward. Watch for postings on wnd.com. If you really can’t wait, go to Phoenix.

    http://obamaballotchallenge.com/saturday-331-arpaio-press-conference-will-not-be-broadcast-live

    Translation – they’ve failed to entice any real media interest and the stench of failure of this latest meaningless sham event is already preceeding it…

    ROTFLMAO!!!

    BillTheCat: Turns out it was rather underwhelming.

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/03/joe_arpaio_and_the_birther_gan.php

  191. avatar
    G March 28, 2012 at 1:37 am #

    I feel completely the SAME WAY about EVERYTHING you just said!!!

    aarrgghh: i’ve always been uncomfortable with right-left conservative-liberal framing and always been ready to listen to any rational argument, but since today’s conservatives have dropped all pretense and officially made the gop the party of anti-scientism, anti-intellectualism and every other assortment of know-nothingism, by simple default liberalism has become synonymous with reason and sanity.

    Sweet!!! 🙂

    aarrgghh: yes, aarrgghh SMASH!!!

  192. avatar
    The Magic M March 28, 2012 at 8:59 am #

    G: Zullo was also prepared to give some sort of abbreviated version of the “birther” investigation results, but a laptop malfunction got us out of that one.

    At least he isn’t Orly and won’t claim “Obots hacked my machine”. 😉

    Though WND could probably milk another article from that – headlined “Mysterious computer malfunction sabotaged presentation of more evidence” and sublined “‘We cannot say it wasn’t Obama’, says Posse spokesman”…

  193. avatar
    misha March 28, 2012 at 9:29 am #

    The Magic M: WND could probably milk another article from that – headlined “Mysterious computer malfunction sabotaged presentation of more evidence” and sublined “‘We cannot say it wasn’t Obama’, says Posse spokesman”…

    “We cannot say for sure that Glenn Beck did not rape and murder a girl, around 1990. Note that we are not accusing Glenn Beck of anything, much less two heinous crimes,”
    says Posse spokesman.

  194. avatar
    bovril March 28, 2012 at 10:00 am #

    G: they want to encourage live attendance. Since they can’t black out Internet broadcasts in a 100 mile radius,

    I would LOVE to know how the eponymous “THEY” can censor all the print and electronic news media in the USA along with all the electronic data and traffic associated….EXCEPT if you are within a magical 100 mile limit of the “broadcast”…..

    What wonderous mechanism is that that has this strange, almsot omnipotent power yet a singular fatal flaw…I mean if 100 miles is the limit, why don’t they set up a mirror web site or other relaying type of mechanism to “route” the traffic at say….95 miles….then another….then another

    It would almost be like, I know, I’ll call it an Inter Linked Network, bit long….maybe I should call it something snappy and marketable…InterNet, that’s the key.

    The really worrying part is that people actually buy into this BS…..