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The occasional open thread: Beware the open thread

The Ides of March edition. Put your Obama Conspiracy comments not related to the current articles here. Comments will close in two weeks.

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245 Responses to The occasional open thread: Beware the open thread

  1. avatar
    G March 14, 2012 at 4:36 am #

    Leo the Paraclete has decided that he’s done playing lawyer and claiming once again that he’s shutting down his blog to go back to working on his “art” projects…

    After long consideration and discussion with my family, I am saying goodbye to this blog and the law. I am retiring my law license and will be concentrating on making films, and writing music.

    There is no lawyer, politician or judge who will change the world into what God intended it to be – one family, one love. Angels are real. It’s gonna be a full on landing soon.

    Some are in the video at the following link.

    “BLOOD BROTHERS”

    ONE LOVE.

    Leo Donofrio

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/were-all-blood-brothers/

  2. avatar
    Lord Basil March 14, 2012 at 5:23 am #

    Leo Donofrio is a real American patriot who has helped to expose the Kenyan Marxist homosexual for the fraud that he is.

    One day, an honest judge will rule on his eligibility based on binding precedent instead of political correctness

  3. avatar
    The Magic M March 14, 2012 at 5:54 am #

    Lord Basil: One day, an honest judge will rule on his eligibility based on binding precedent instead of political correctness

    Yes, any day now…

    Besides, I think Orly has succeeded in creating a lot of nice precedent, just not in your favour.

  4. avatar
    aarrgghh March 14, 2012 at 6:14 am #

    leo, ed hale, polarik, butterdeezee, miss tickly and others have written swan songs before. in fact i was expecting a number of “goodbye crewl wurl” posts after the arpaio dog and posse show, but i was also expecting arpaio to be a big birfer letdown. i don’t think anyone expected ol’ shurf to drop trou and go full birfer.

    still, i think that unexpected hit of maricopa hooch only postponed the coming funk. despite being treated to heady doses of “fraud and forgery”, “probable cause” and “person of interest”, birfers now realize that their hero’s not gonna do one damn thing about anything. so that brings us back to these half-baked ballot challenges that are getting tossed as fast as they’re cooked up. obama is still in the white house, looking at another four years, and there aren’t any big birfer goalposts in sight so they’re once again down to all they’ve ever really had — melodrama.

  5. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 6:34 am #

    Lord Basil: Leo Donofrio is a real American patriot who has helped to expose the Kenyan Marxist homosexual for the fraud that he is.

    You owe me a new keyboard and screen. I should not read your comments while drinking coffee. “Leo Donofrio is a real American patriot” – yeah, if you can call that 5th rate poker player anything other than putz.

    Pop quiz: define “Marxist.” I’ll help you out: when Golda Meir first went to Palestine, she was a Marxist.

    “Kenyan Marxist homosexual” Better than that overweight fascist, Newton McPherson Gingrich, who committed adultery twice, and went after Clinton while doing the same thing. When is Callista going to get her scarlet letter? Plus, Obama nor anyone in his family, tied Bo to the roof of his car for 12 hours, nor did anyone in his family hang a stray dog, and tortured it to death.

    I was a kibbutznik for a year, so you may call me a Marxist also – a badge I wear proudly. Intrade has Obama at 60.4%, so better get used to it.

    Socialism needs democracy like the human body needs oxygen. – Leon Trotsky

  6. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 6:38 am #

    Didn’t someone here identify Lord Basil as an actual troll? Like, not just the normal Birther idiot, but an actually liberal Democrat who likes to post as a Birther to goad us into arguing? I seem to recall Arthur outing him as that a few weeks ago.

  7. avatar
    Keith March 14, 2012 at 8:17 am #

    misha: Pop quiz: define “Marxist.”

    Can’t. Won’t try.

    But I know I’m definitely a Marxist.

    A Day at the Races is one of the greatest American movies ever made.

  8. avatar
    sactosintolerant March 14, 2012 at 8:27 am #

    CBS should expand their CSI franchise with a cop comedy show… CSI: Maricopa County.

  9. avatar
    Scientist March 14, 2012 at 8:27 am #

    It’s simple. Both Marxist and homosexual mean anything I don’t like. Therefore, I can state that beyond a doubt the Boston Red Sox and all their fans are Marxist and homosexual. Probably Kenyan too.

  10. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 8:34 am #

    sactosintolerant: CBS should expand their CSI franchise with a cop comedy show… CSI: Maricopa County.

    Keystone Cops: Maricopa County

  11. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 8:36 am #

    Keith: But I know I’m definitely a Marxist.

    Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read.

  12. avatar
    justlw March 14, 2012 at 9:49 am #

    Marxism brought us many fine HO and O Scale model trains, the Big Wheel tricycle, Rock’em Sock’em Robots, and something known as “Sheriff Joe Sam and his Whoopee Car.” ДLL НДІL МДЯЖ.

  13. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    I hear they have some honest judges in Mississippi. Perhaps today is your day!

    Lord Basil: One day, an honest judge will rule on his eligibility based on binding precedent instead of political correctness

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 10:14 am #

    Yes, see:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/02/arpaio-birth-certificate-press-conference-march-1/#comment-156818

    Thrifty: Didn’t someone here identify Lord Basil as an actual troll? Like, not just the normal Birther idiot, but an actually liberal Democrat who likes to post as a Birther to goad us into arguing? I seem to recall Arthur outing him as that a few weeks ago.

  15. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 10:17 am #

    Lupin: Boll Maher’s video about the South and Obama

    US Constitution, Article VI, paragraph 3: “…no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

    “Nikki Randhawa Haley was elected the 116th Governor of South Carolina on Tuesday, November 2, 2010.

    Question: Is Nikki a Christian?
    Truth: In Nikki’s words: “My faith in Christ has a profound impact on my daily life and I look to Him for guidance with every decision I make. God has blessed my family in so many ways and my faith in the Lord gives me great strength on a daily basis. Being a Christian is not about words, but about living for Christ every day.”

    http://www.nikkihaley.com/truthinfacts/question-is-nikki-a-christian

    “I will oppose any government mandates on vaccines, whether they be for HPV, H1N1, or any other.” – Nikki Haley http://www.nikkihaley.com/truthinfacts/vaccines

  16. avatar
    JPotter March 14, 2012 at 10:17 am #

    On a related note, the title of today’s Cagle post is “Santorum Surge”

    Heh. So wrong i just had to share.

  17. avatar
    donna March 14, 2012 at 10:22 am #

    the SAINTED reagan:

    “We in the United States, above all, must remember that lesson, for we were founded as a nation of openness to people of all beliefs. And so we must remain. Our very unity has been strengthened by our pluralism. We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever. CHURCH AND STATE ARE, and MUST REMAIN, SEPARATE.”

  18. avatar
    JPotter March 14, 2012 at 10:24 am #

    G: Leo the Paraclete has decided that he’s done playing lawyer and claiming once again that he’s shutting down his blog to go back to working on his “art” projects…

    I trust we can take teh Glam Birfer at his word? I have an “art project” for him …. if he can find the business end of a shovel, the landscaping is at a critical point, and we’re expecting rain tonight.

  19. avatar
    JPotter March 14, 2012 at 10:28 am #

    For those with an interest in trolls and their trolling ways, there’s some high-quality action going on at Amazon these days. “Hermitian”, who put in a brief appearrance here, has attained new heights of birfoonery in a thread entitled:

    For your amusement: “Obama had Breitbart Killed”

    Advertising for trolls doesn’t seem like a good idea, but for any with an academic interest in the abnormal psychology and literary stylings endemic to the type, there’s fun for everyone.

  20. avatar
    Rickey March 14, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    Thrifty:
    Didn’t someone here identify Lord Basil as an actual troll?Like, not just the normal Birther idiot, but an actually liberal Democrat who likes to post as a Birther to goad us into arguing?I seem to recall Arthur outing him as that a few weeks ago.

    Yes ,it’s best to ignore him. It may be amusing to him, but it’s a waste of time for everyone else.

  21. avatar
    Bob March 14, 2012 at 10:47 am #

    Where is the toxicology report from Breitbart’s autopsy? Is the family hiding the truth?

    Where’s the report?

  22. avatar
    Al Halbert March 14, 2012 at 10:53 am #

    Regardless of which side you support on whether or not Obama is a usurper or duly elected as president History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester and the unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch.

  23. avatar
    justlw March 14, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    Yes, Bob, the Fixx was in.

  24. avatar
    richCares March 14, 2012 at 11:12 am #

    Obama has done more to fight terroism , here is a story on his use of The Seals
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/02/19/navy-seals-obama-s-secret-army.html

  25. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 11:23 am #

    So you think history will vindicate the birthers? In my reading of history, cranks are usually forgotten.

    Al Halbert: Regardless of which side you support on whether or not Obama is a usurper or duly elected as president History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester and the unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch.

  26. avatar
    richCares March 14, 2012 at 11:29 am #

    unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch
    correction
    unbridled delusion of Al Halbert
    there fixed it

  27. avatar
    Majority Will March 14, 2012 at 11:31 am #

    Al Halbert: History will not be kind

    Here’s a fun site for you to stew over:

    http://whattheheckhasobamadonesofar.com/

  28. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 11:33 am #

    All I read here was “even if you disagree with me, you obviously agree with me.”

    Al kinda reminds me of this guy.

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c,2849/

    Al Halbert:
    Regardless of which side you support on whether or not Obama is a usurper or duly elected as president History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester and the unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch.

  29. avatar
    Bob March 14, 2012 at 11:48 am #

    Thanks to Al Halbert, a whole generation haz a sad.

  30. avatar
    Scientist March 14, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    Al Halbert: History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester

    History will not be kind to that small minority who allowed the question to fester by:

    Killing entire forests with their 100s of frivolous lawsuits
    Torturing poor electrons with their ridiculous and shoddily researched websites
    Organizing phony events like birther summits to fleece the gullible
    Perverting law enforcement by pretending that self-appointed fools who didn’t even do an actual investigation have credibility
    Calling judges, legislators and their fellow citizens traitors for the sin of merely disagreeing with them

    Yes, the birthers who have caused the “question to fester” are themselves a festering boil on the body politic and will not be treated kindly. The great majority of sensiible people who have long since moved on, however, will.

  31. avatar
    Majority Will March 14, 2012 at 12:02 pm #

    Scientist: History will not be kind to that small minority who allowed the question to fester by:

    Killing entire forests with their 100s of frivolous lawsuits
    Torturing poor electrons with their ridiculous and shoddily researched websites
    Organizing phony events like birther summits to fleece the gullible
    Perverting law enforcement by pretending that self-appointed fools who didn’t even do an actual investigation have credibility
    Calling judges, legislators and their fellow citizens traitors for the sin of merely disagreeing with them

    Yes, the birthers who have caused the “question to fester” are themselves a festering boil on the body politic and will not be treated kindly.The great majority of sensiible people who have long since moved on, however, will.

    Well said.

    Birther and other bigots are an embarassment.

  32. avatar
    Lupin March 14, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

    Al Halbert: Regardless of which side you support on whether or not Obama is a usurper or duly elected as president History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester and the unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch.

    I can’t wait for him to be reelected. I’d pay good money to see your bilious face. You and your ilk are going down in flames.

  33. avatar
    JPotter March 14, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    It’s worse than all that, me hearties!

    Al has made another colossal logic fail (in addition to tortured grammar and wasted words!). Read again:

    Al Halbert: Regardless of which side you support on whether or not Obama is a usurper or duly elected as president History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester and the unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch.

    So whether or not Obama is eligible, there is a question “festering”? Whether or not Obama is eligible, the Constitution is being “destroyed”?

    No, Al, there isn’t. No, Al, it’s not.

    Despite your best efforts, the Constitution remains intact. Maybe you should try harder, you know, do something more than post on message boards. File a frivolous lawsuit or something!

    “It is well settled.”

    Regardless of whether you like it or not, your invented controversy will be forgotten, as Doc has noted.

    …. except for a small remembrance by hobbyists who enjoy studying nuttery. It’s a wise thing to remember the past, as a guard against its piossible repetition.

    Your legacy relies on us! You’re welcome, birfers!

  34. avatar
    The Magic M March 14, 2012 at 12:18 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So you think history will vindicate the birthers? In my reading of history, cranks are usually forgotten.

    Were there many cranks, say, a hundred years ago? I mean, comparable to today’s?

    I think many favourite crank themes (hollow Earth, moon landing hoax, relativity theory deniers, …) might live for 100 years or more, they just won’t ever be vindicated.

    Except maybe in some future dictatorship that adheres to such crank theories – just think how many cranks must have felt vindicated during the Third Reich when “some races are superior to others” was official “science”.

  35. avatar
    JPotter March 14, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    The Magic M: I think many favourite crank themes (hollow Earth, moon landing hoax, relativity theory deniers, …) might live for 100 years or more, they just won’t ever be vindicated.

    I’d suggest memorability is tied to utility. The Hollow Earth has proven time and again to be a great literary device. And just think of all the real estate, and the captive solar power! well, if you’re buying into the Tiny Sun variation of The Hollow Earth.

    Moon Landings as a hoax, again, when not presented too disrespectfully, great basis for thrillers and horror and sci-fi, assorted what-ifs.

    But birtherism? unless as an angle in yet another really bad Nick Cage movie in which the entire history of teh US is revealed as having been a bad joke (“National Treasure 3: All Your Presidents Are Belong To Us”), I see no use for it, beyond current events.

    Relativity Deniers? Who? Where? Do they enjoy GPS much?

  36. avatar
    JPotter March 14, 2012 at 1:22 pm #

    Oh, and …

    The Magic M: Were there many cranks, say, a hundred years ago? I mean, comparable to today’s?

    … yes, yes there were! The advent of popular science over the course of the 19th century opened up endless opprtunities for crankery!

    Some interesting links:

    http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/04/unified_theory_of_the_crank.php

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person)

    Search Amazon or Google for “quacks” “pseudoscience” “cranks” “crackpots” etc. … you may get lost and never come back.

  37. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 1:26 pm #

    Well didn’t the President’s Press Secretary say that the Birther story was so ridiculous that you couldn’t sell it in Hollywood? Maybe you could if you gave it a little tweaking, changed around a few facts (like instead of Stanley Ann Dunham flying to Kenya when she was late in her pregnancy, she lived there already). I dunno. I’m not really the creative type. Besides, stories of a U.S. President planted by a shadowy cabal have already been done, most notably in The Manchurian Candidate. I don’t know about the original, but I know that in the 2004 remake the conspirators at least had the foresight to use a white guy, and a war hero to boot, with a clean, American sounding name.

    JPotter: But birtherism? unless as an angle in yet another really bad Nick Cage movie in which the entire history of teh US is revealed as having been a bad joke (“National Treasure 3: All Your Presidents Are Belong To Us”), I see no use for it, beyond current events.

  38. avatar
    Al Halbert March 14, 2012 at 1:29 pm #

    Taking the liberty to rove my assertions under an open thread;

    For the assertions of Constitutional Violations, here is the opinion of Ilya Shapiro who is a senior fellow in constitutional studies at the Cato Institute and editor-in-chief of the Cato Supreme Court Review.

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/04/president-obamas-top-10-constitutional-violations/3/

    And the opinions on nine State Attorney Generals on Obama’s Administrations of the violations of Federal Law, at least 21 that they enumerate;

    http://rslc.com/_blog/News/post/MEMO_A_Report_on_Obama_Administration_Violations_of_Law/

    The encroachment on the 2nd Amendment and the States response under Obama with 8 States passing the Firearms Freedom Act with another 21 States introduced legislation and with another 4 States intending to introduce this legislation.

    http://firearmsfreedomact.com/state-by-state/

    With so many citizens in the majority on these issues, the minority that holds such stellar views of Obama and his accomplishments are really a minority in this nation.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

    And on the economy a new Washington Post poll show 59% disapprove of his handling of the economy.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-obama-momentum-stalls-amid-spiking-gas-prices/2012/03/11/gIQAQQoz5R_graphic.html

    Deficit explosion by Obama and the Democrats.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2012/02/01/under_obama_we039ve_seen_highest_deficits_since_1946_272670.html

    Obama care will explode deficits even more.

    http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/obama-administration-requests-another-111-billion-for-obamacare-implementation/

    Any way you slice it rational people that can reason and actually process the data have serious doubts about Obama’s ability to lead this nation, and refuse to blindly follow him down a path to destruction.

  39. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 1:30 pm #

    Poll shows Obama leading all GOP contestants by some pretty impressive margins.

    He’s leading Romney by 12 points (54 to 42) and Santorum bu 28 point (57 to 29). President Obama’s approval rating is at 50%

    I generally take polls with a grain of salt. They tend to change so quickly. I think I saw a similar article about how Obama was neck and neck with Romney earlier this week,

  40. avatar
    NBC March 14, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

    Al Halbert: Regardless of which side you support on whether or not Obama is a usurper or duly elected as president History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester and the unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch.

    Yes, the birthers will be remembered for the fools they were. The festering is something that is on the side of the birthers here…

    Ironic isn’t it Al? But thanks for sharing

  41. avatar
    JPotter March 14, 2012 at 1:44 pm #

    Thrifty: Well didn’t the President’s Press Secretary say that the Birther story was so ridiculous that you couldn’t sell it in Hollywood?

    Yes, and rightly so. The key point in all thrillers involving shadowy manipulations is this: they manipulate and exploit reality! The Manchurian Candidate and others use figures who are eligible to be President.

    No matter how detailed a rendition, no matter how outlandish a version of birtherism you pick, even if it’s the One-Worlder, Rothschilds superconspiracy type, if the big secret is that, teeheehee, all along their man actually wasn’t eligible—boy we sure fooled them!—it’s kinda deflating. Especially when coupled with the necessary corollary: the “real” Constituion (the birthery one) was stolen and you’ve all been living a lie!

    To assert that the Founders were in actuality birthers would go over like a lead ballon.

    It’s just DOA. It’s only utility is as the butt of jokes.

  42. avatar
    Al Halbert March 14, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

    Consider the Historical ramifications of the following;

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/04/president-obamas-top-10-constitutional-violations/3/

    http://rslc.com/_blog/News/post/MEMO_A_Report_on_Obama_Administration_Violations_of_Law/

    http://firearmsfreedomact.com/state-by-state/

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-obama-momentum-stalls-amid-spiking-gas-prices/2012/03/11/gIQAQQoz5R_graphic.html

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2012/02/01/under_obama_we039ve_seen_highest_deficits_since_1946_272670.html

    http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/obama-administration-requests-another-111-billion-for-obamacare-implementation/

    If anyone of you do not believe that historians will not take notice of these actions and events then you are exponentially more delusional than the “Birthers” you rail against. Again history will not look kindly on these events and the generation that allowed them to happen unchecked. This is just domestic policy, foreign policy is a complete and separate but equally detrimental quagmire for Obama and his ruinous policies for our nation and the world.

  43. avatar
    Paper March 14, 2012 at 2:19 pm #

    The incessant refrain I hear, get called all kinds of names for not believing, is that Obama’s illegitimate birth is used against him as blackmail by the Rockefeller NWO crowd to keep him in line…if he steps out of line, they drop the video showing the birth certificate being planted in Hawaii, etc etc etc. That also is how it connects to the overall meta-conspiracy.

    JPotter: even if it’s the One-Worlder, Rothschilds superconspiracy type, if the big secret is that, teeheehee, all along their man actually wasn’t eligible—boy we sure fooled them!—it’s kinda deflating.

  44. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    I don’t guess you knew that the Cato Institute was created by the Koch brothers.

    You might as well be quoting Newt Gingrich’s campaign manager on the qualifications of Mitt Romney. :roll:

    Al Halbert: For the assertions of Constitutional Violations, here is the opinion of Ilya Shapiro who is a senior fellow in constitutional studies at the Cato Institute and editor-in-chief of the Cato Supreme Court Review.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 2:34 pm #

    At least you got one right. Obama’s popularity (or decline thereof) does track gas prices pretty well, even though authorities agree that the President can’t really affect the short-term price of gas.

    Voters are appalled at President Barack Obama’s handling of gas prices, even though virtually every policy expert in both parties says there’s little a president can do to affect the day-to-day price of fuel in a global market.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73947.html#ixzz1p7M6FqPN

    Al Halbert: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-obama-momentum-stalls-amid-spiking-gas-prices/2012/03/11/gIQAQQoz5R_graphic.html

  46. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 2:37 pm #

    Is the flap over where Chester A Arthur was born in the Britannica?

    Al Halbert: If anyone of you do not believe that historians will not take notice of these actions and events then you are exponentially more delusional than the “Birthers” you rail against.

  47. avatar
    Daniel March 14, 2012 at 2:37 pm #

    Al Halbert:
    History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester and the unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch.

    Do you recall the crisis detailed in “Ariston against Conon”?

    Of course you don’t.

    Why?

    Because it was a nutbag conspiracy in ancient history that nobody cared about then and nobody, other than a few historians of the incredibly forgotten, remembers.

    Birthers will suffer the same fate. Birtherism won’t be treated kindly or unkindly by history. Like all other meaningless and unpopular nutbag conspiracy theories, it will be simply… forgotten.

  48. avatar
    Al Halbert March 14, 2012 at 3:12 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t guess you knew that the Cato Institute was created by the Koch brothers.

    You might as wellbe quoting Newt Gingrich’s campaign manager on the qualifications of Mitt Romney.

    So that give the Tides Foundation financed by Soros and and the other Foundations he finances instant creditability? If you condemn one you must condemn all, as the ideology is what separates the rhetoric regardless of the source of income whether it is the Koch Brothers or Soros. Your ideology is showing and is visible on your sleeve.

  49. avatar
    sfjeff March 14, 2012 at 3:19 pm #

    Al Halbert: Taking the liberty to rove my assertions under an open thread;For the assertions of Constitutional Violations, here is the opinion of Ilya Shapiro who is a senior fellow in constitutional studies at the Cato Institute and editor-in-chief of the Cato Supreme Court Review.

    One more Birther who (shockingly!) also happens to be against President Obama politically.

    I swear they never seem to be aware of appearances when they are so ardently opposed to President Obama politically- and just happen to also be claiming he isn’t eligible.

    Too many Birthers roll up their opposition with their Birtherism, so often when you point out the lie in a particular Birther claim, their retort is along the lines of “Obamacare is unconstitutional!”.

    They just can’t seem to grasp that eligiblity and Presidential performance are not linked.

  50. avatar
    Al Halbert March 14, 2012 at 3:26 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Is the flap over where Chester A Arthur was born in the Britannica?

    So have you informed your readers that Justice Gray an appointee of Arthur mangled Wong Kim Ark to make the case for Arthur’s less than stellar birth. How he did cartwheels around the Slaughterhouse cases to arrive at his opinion? Much less than the decision was completely unnecessary as China and the U.S.A had a Treaty regarding the birth of Chinese Citizens on United States soil which made the whole decision suspect?

    Justice Gray knew that if his BOSS (Arthur) was found unconstitutional he would lose that oh, so coveted seat on the SCOTUS Bench, since he was an Arthur appointee, does this have ramifications for Sotomayor or Kagan with Obama Care heard on the 26th, 27th and 28th of this month. Law many times becomes the lapdog of political expediency much as Obama has done to give cover to his many illegal acts, with Fast & Furious front and center to name just one, the closing of offshore drilling another in direct defiance of a Federal Court. Who cares about a bunch of Mexicans when one can subjugate an entire nation, which has lead to the Firearms Freedom act being passed by 8 States already!

  51. avatar
    Majority Will March 14, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    Al Halbert: Again history will not look kindly on these events blah blah blah

    Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

  52. avatar
    Paper March 14, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    No matter how else President Obama is regarded by history, he will be regarded as a natural born citizen eligible to be president. Just like every other president.

    Al Halbert: Any way you slice it rational people that can reason and actually process the data have serious doubts about Obama’s ability to lead this nation

  53. avatar
    richCares March 14, 2012 at 3:55 pm #

    Al Halbert, go to INTRADE and check what is Obama’s chance of being re-elected. At INTRADE you actually buy and sell shares with real money, It has been the most accurate poll on presdential elections, currently Obama’s rating is 61.9%, 2 days ago it was 60.4%.
    .
    Since Obama’s re-election chance is at 61.9% what does that do to Al Halberts deluded nonsense.
    .
    http://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/contract/?contractId=743474

  54. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 3:58 pm #

    Which is a really bizarre thing to say considering his re-election odds are around 60%, and his approval ratings around 50%.

    You are projecting again. I assume that you surround yourself with people and news that dislike President Obama, so you assume that these are the only types of people who exist.

    Al Halbert: With so many citizens in the majority on these issues, the minority that holds such stellar views of Obama and his accomplishments are really a minority in this nation.

  55. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 4:05 pm #

    Al Halbert: foreign policy is a complete and separate but equally detrimental quagmire for Obama and his ruinous policies for our nation and the world.

    You mean like invading countries because of their WMDs oil? Like putting a puppet as of head of state, who turned it into heroin and corruption central? Like a VP who gave his buddies no-bid contracts?

    I have a better one: a VP who shook down contractors for bribes, and took $5K in cash from a Baltimore contractor, in his Executive Office Building chambers. Then, after pleading Nolo Contendere to income tax evasion, turned out to be an anti-Semite.

  56. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    Thrifty: Which is a really bizarre thing to say considering his re-election odds are around 60%

    Intrade has Obama at 61.9%, as I write.

  57. avatar
    Greenfinches March 14, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    remind me how states’ legislation is (a) relevant to Obama’s eligibility and (b) Obama’s responsibility in any event?????

    You really are a bit dull, Al. Never anything worth reading from you, and you never seem to listen.

    You are free to dislike Obama and vote against him, if you really want to – I can’t say that I am attracted to the idea of a President Santorum, myself, but tastes differ….

    Why do you spend your time here?

    Al Halbert: The encroachment on the 2nd Amendment and the States response under Obama with 8 States passing the Firearms Freedom Act with another 21 States introduced legislation and with another 4 States intending to introduce this legislation.

  58. avatar
    Majority Will March 14, 2012 at 4:12 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Which is a really bizarre thing to say considering his re-election odds are around 60%, and his approval ratings around 50%.

    You are projecting again.I assume that you surround yourself with people and news that dislike President Obama, so you assume that these are the only types of people who exist.

    American “Thinker” :roll:

  59. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 4:12 pm #

    Bob: Where is the toxicology report from Breitbart’s autopsy? Is the family hiding the truth?

    Rumor has it that he was snorting cocaine.

  60. avatar
    JPotter March 14, 2012 at 4:17 pm #

    sfjeff: I swear they never seem to be aware of appearances when they are so ardently opposed to President Obama politically- and just happen to also be claiming he isn’t eligible.

    Is that like …. one a dem “conflict of interest” thingies? ;)

    They couldn’t help it … all hopped up on ideology, they just couldn’t pass up that birther bone.

    A commented before, the funniest part is how some numbskulls have taken it to heart and are now bithin’ on other Republicans!

    Reap the whirlwind, baby.

  61. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 4:19 pm #

    @The Magic M: Birthers like Al Halbert should read “Civilization and Its Discontents”, by Sigmund Freud.

    I read it twice. Once in college, and again after 9/11.

  62. avatar
    JPotter March 14, 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    Thrifty: Which is a really bizarre thing to say considering his re-election odds are around 60%,

    The way things are going, that’s a bit low. He won’t get 60% of the vote, but he’s very likely to get more than 50%, which puts his re-election odds at 70+%.

    2 biggest variables I can think of: 1) Romney (puts Obama nearer 60%) or Santorum (Obama at 90+%) will greatly influence the way the middle votes, and 2) a 3rd-party candidate? A 3rd party candidate is a real wild card, depending on who it is, it will cut someone’s chances off at the knees. Still, i think the Republican field is more vulnerable to this possibility. I think. Certain candidates could suck the middle right out, and then it’s up to who has the bigger, more energized base?

    Still 7.5 months to go.

  63. avatar
    Whatever4 March 14, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

    Al Halbert:

    Any way you slice it rational people that can reason and actually process the data have serious doubts about Obama’s ability to lead this nation, and refuse to blindly follow him down a path to destruction.

    There’s a huge difference between serious doubts about Obama’s ability to serve as President and serious doubts about Obama’s legality to serve as President. The first is an appropriate topic for any of the sites you cite, and tens of thousands more. The second is the only appropriate topic for this site and a few other sites. Please confine your reasoning and doubts to the correct venue, but make sure you realize that your opinion of the second is irretrievably wrapped up in your opinions on the first. Rational people can separate the two.

  64. avatar
    Whatever4 March 14, 2012 at 4:51 pm #

    JPotter:
    On a related note, the title of today’s Cagle post is “Santorum Surge”

    Heh. So wrong i just had to share.

    http://jimromenesko.com/2012/03/13/santorum-pubic-schedule/

  65. avatar
    Whatever4 March 14, 2012 at 4:54 pm #

    Happy Pi Day.

  66. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 5:09 pm #

    Changing the subject are we? You cited a biased source. Admit it. I never cited the Tides foundation (never heard of it for that matter).

    Al Halbert: So that give the Tides Foundation financed by Soros and and the other Foundations he finances instant creditability?

  67. avatar
    Al Halbert March 14, 2012 at 5:47 pm #

    You opened the DOOR to the Koch brothers that support organizations the same as George Soros. Don’t cry foul when you attempt to besmirch them and feign ignorance about a similar organization supported by a competing political philosophy (the left).

    It is disingenuous at best and………at worst either they are both biased or they are not, pretending otherwise is silly. I only used Mr. Shapiro as he is a well respected and recognized Constitutional authority in our our society regardless of his political affiliation which you have dragged into this fray.

    The Koch brothers are well known supporters of conservative thought and viewpoint, I only added a corollary to their efforts that espoused the left or liberal viewpoint. Your response suggested a slanted viewpoint by my citing Shapiro, I only added a counterpoint to your insinuation as is reasonable in civilized debate.

  68. avatar
    wild bill March 14, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    Al Halbert: So have you informed your readers that Justice Gray an appointee of Arthur mangled Wong Kim Ark to make the case for Arthur’s less than stellar birth.

    blah blah blah

    Justice Gray knew that if his BOSS (Arthur) was found unconstitutional he would lose that oh, so coveted seat on the SCOTUS Bench

    blah blah blah

    Wong Kim Ark was decided in 1898 – 13 years after Arthur left office and 12 after he died. Justice Gray was 70 at the time of the opinion. (He died 4 years later).

    So you think there were Arthur birthers pressing the issue a dozen years after his death and that scared a 70 year-old Justice who had been sitting for 15 years, so he intentionally mis-stated the law in an opinion in which five other Justices (none of whom were appointed by Arthur) joined just in case he needed to use that opinion in some future hypothetical case about Arthur’s eligibility?

    Got it.

  69. avatar
    Majority Will March 14, 2012 at 6:13 pm #

    Whatever4:
    Happy Pi Day.

    i says, “Be rational.”

    ∏ replies, “Get real.”

  70. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 6:14 pm #

    You mean like the military action in Libya which didn’t last very long and cost no American lives?

    Or the successful location and killing of Osama Bin Laden?

    Yeah, he really screwed up. If only he’d done a full scale invasion of a middle Eastern country, gotten at least 5000 Americans killed, and bogged us down there for 8 years.

    I don’t normally discuss politics because I’m so bad at it. I just don’t have the head for the complexities of the topic. But you’re just so much worse at it that even I think you suck.

    Al Halbert: This is just domestic policy, foreign policy is a complete and separate but equally detrimental quagmire for Obama and his ruinous policies for our nation and the world.

  71. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 6:18 pm #

    Well I was thinking of that Intrade number Misha keeps quoting. President Obama hasn’t really started campaigning in earnest yet. He’s doing some serious fundraising and taking some shots here and there, but he’s not really going after the Republicans yet. I guess he can’t since there isn’t a Republican nominee to go after. I do wonder if his poll numbers will go up or down once the Republicans have a solid nominee and Obama can really go full steam with his campaign.

    JPotter: The way things are going, that’s a bit low. He won’t get 60% of the vote, but he’s very likely to get more than 50%, which puts his re-election odds at 70+%.

    2 biggest variables I can think of:1) Romney (puts Obama nearer 60%) or Santorum (Obama at 90+%) will greatly influence the way the middle votes, and 2) a 3rd-party candidate?A 3rd party candidate is a real wild card, depending on who it is, it will cut someone’s chances off at the knees. Still, i think the Republican field is more vulnerable to this possibility. I think. Certain candidates could suck the middle right out, and then it’s up to who has the bigger, more energized base?

    Still 7.5 months to go.

  72. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 14, 2012 at 6:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Is the flap over where Chester A Arthur was born in the Britannica?

    You know how this is going to come out in World Net Daily, don’t you???

    Dr. Conspiracy Admits Chester Arthur Foreign Born “In Britannica”!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  73. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 14, 2012 at 6:38 pm #

    Whatever4:
    Happy Pi Day.

    Not for another 3 years really (3/14/15). Maybe rough pi day?

  74. avatar
    jayHG March 14, 2012 at 6:48 pm #

    I saw this post on free republic:

    “…The article is excellent, and the comments are good too. If there was nothing in Sheriff Joe’s findings, the MSM would be having a field day mocking him. Their total news blackout says it all.”

    These types of statements are why birthers get mocked and made fun of ALL THE TIME!! No matter what happens, it’s PROOF POSITIVE that the birthers are RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! If shuurriff Joe is either mocked and/or ignored, it’s cause “SEE!!! They know it’s TRUE so they are scared, etc.”

    I swear if you look directly into the eyes of a birther, you can see him/her growing more and more stupid right before your eyes.

  75. avatar
    BillTheCat March 14, 2012 at 6:50 pm #

    Al Halbert: Regardless of which side you support on whether or not Obama is a usurper or duly elected as president History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester and the unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch.

    Outside of your bubble and the bubble of a few hundred mentally ill adherents, history isn’t going to care about your invented “destruction of the Constitution”. Hate to break it to ya.

  76. avatar
    BillTheCat March 14, 2012 at 6:54 pm #

    Oh by the way –

    The GA SoS certified the primary results today.

    For birthers – too bad, so sad.

  77. avatar
    justlw March 14, 2012 at 6:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Tides foundation (never heard of it for that matter).

    Many of us in the Bay Area know about the Tides Foundation.

    It’s something that Glenn Beck has been on a long-term rant about; he says the story of the Tides Foundation is the reason he first busted out with the blackboard to ‘splain it to us all.

    He did such a good job, that one of his listeners in the Central Valley put on some body armor, grabbed a few guns and some armor-piercing bullets, hopped in his car and headed off to San Francisco to shoot him some progressives, specifically the Tides Foundation and the ACLU.

    He got stopped en route by the California Highway Patrol, so he wounded a couple of them in a 12 minute shootout instead.

    (I couldn’t find anything saying what happened to the guy since he pleaded not guilty in August 2010. Perhaps he hasn’t gone to trial yet.)

  78. avatar
    justlw March 14, 2012 at 7:03 pm #

    I take it back — Groveland’s actually more in the Sierra Nevada, on the outskirts of Yosemite. But anyway, that’s when a lot of us around here first heard of the Tides Foundation.

  79. avatar
    Obsolete March 14, 2012 at 7:08 pm #

    Daniel: So that give the Tides Foundation financed by Soros and and the other Foundations he finances instant creditability?

    ‘Glenn Beck, Come Back to Planet Earth,’ Says Tides Foundation Head Drummond Pike

    “For starters, while Beck frequently refers to Tides as “the George Soros Tides Foundation,” Pike notes that his organization and Soros are not connected — despite what Beck’s conspiracy theory spider charts may claim. Soros did not help Pike found Tides in 1976, Pike says (“Oh Lord, no”); the two never met until 2005. The extent of Tides’ connection is this, claims Pike: Soros’ Open Society Institute — which isn’t just Soros, but has a board of directors, a letterhead, everything — has donated money to some of the same projects Tides showered money on. “I think our affiliation lives mostly in Glenn Beck’s fantasies,” says Pike.”

    http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/07/glenn_beck_tides_drummond_pike.php

    To find this, one has to google the words “tides foundation soros” and scroll through the first five or six results pages which contain nothing but frothy, Beck-like screeds against the great boogyman Soros and their feverish fantasies of him.
    But conspiracy theorists like Beck or Al never let facts get in the way of a good smear, especially when they can seemingly manufacture their own facts through endless repetition.

    The article focuses on the madman whom Beck inspired to plan a deadly attack against the Tides Foundation, narrowly averted when he was pulled over for driving drunk, and then engaged the police in a shootout while armed to the teeth on his way to kill Americans who committed the crime of not having the same political persuasion as him.

  80. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 7:13 pm #

    He’s been awaiting trial for a year and a half? I thought Americans were entitled to a fair and speedy trial.

    justlw: (I couldn’t find anything saying what happened to the guy since he pleaded not guilty in August 2010. Perhaps he hasn’t gone to trial yet.)

  81. avatar
    JD Reed March 14, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

    Al, Al, Al — history won’t say a darn thing negative about Obama re the birther issue because he was not the one pushing it. As to letting it fester, BEFORE he was elected, he presented a perfectly valid document that certified his birth in Hawaii — because the only folks who matter, the Hawaii DOH staff, verified iit. You really think that the lawyer who first filed a birther lawsuit, Phil Berg, merits any credibility? Recall he was a truther before he was a birther, and sued to try to prove Bush/Cheney were behind 9-11? Wouldn’t most sensible people consider Berg a nutjob for that? And based on this, why would anyone figure he had ceased to be a nutjob when he became a birther, and actually tried to get the courts ot postpone the 2008 presidential election. Delusions of grandeur, anyone?

    And Orly — the chief engineer on the crazy train for 3-plus years? A correspondence school lawyer bred in the Soviet Union who seems to have absorbed a Stalilnist view regarding disagreement with the rightfully constitituted authoerities? The only difference is, Stalin really possessed the power so he could order the execution of anyone who crossed him, or he even thought had crossed him. Orly is only a wannabe, in her deluded mind (at least judged by what she says) when the rightful people take power, every judge and elections commission that were mean enough to reject her nonsense are doomed to the gallows, along with even TV news directors — not necessarily for what they aired, but what they chose not to air, the eligibility challenge news according to Orly. Heck, posters here at Dr. Conspiracy might be in danger, if she could learn our identiities.

    These are the kind of people you put your trust in?

  82. avatar
    Novice Debunker March 14, 2012 at 7:45 pm #

    Hi All,

    A birfer that I know claims that Obama has had his school records sealed, and therefore must have something very bad to hide (and of course, she says that he has spent millions keeping stuff secret.)

    I can’t find much actual, non birfer, information with Google — what’s the deal with BHO’s school records?

    Novice

  83. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 8:05 pm #

    I wondered that too. In reality, Birthers demand all these school records because they want to dig up as much dirt as possible on Obama. I’m not sure what they think is in there. I think the assumption is “Obama is a dirty liar, he’s obviously hiding something.” They’re working backwards; starting at the conclusion and trying to find information to fit it.

    I find the quest for records particularly bizarre, because they usually also maintain that Obama was born to only one citizen parent, so is not natural born. That his father was never a US citizen is not hidden away in some deep dark record; it’s established fact published in his freely available book. As far as Birthers are concerned, they have a fact about the President that nobody denies which renders him ineligible, but they still want more.

  84. avatar
    Scientist March 14, 2012 at 8:13 pm #

    Novice Debunker: Hi All,A birfer that I know claims that Obama has had his school records sealed, and therefore must have something very bad to hide (and of course, she says that he has spent millions keeping stuff secret.)I can’t find much actual, non birfer, information with Google — what’s the deal with BHO’s school records?Novice

    Alright, the gig is up. Barry cut class once to go to the beach. He knows it was wrong, but it was a really nice day, and honestly, what is the point of living in Hawaii if you can’t occasionally cut class and go to the beach?

  85. avatar
    DG March 14, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

    I just heard the end of a piece on NPR’s All Things Considered about Obama’s birth certificate. I couldn’t get to it quickly enough to turn the radio up and I am not finding it on their website. Anyone hear it this evening?

  86. avatar
    Keith March 14, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

    Thrifty: Well didn’t the President’s Press Secretary say that the Birther story was so ridiculous that you couldn’t sell it in Hollywood? Maybe you could if you gave it a little tweaking, changed around a few facts (like instead of Stanley Ann Dunham flying to Kenya when she was late in her pregnancy, she lived there already). I dunno

    They did a pretty thorough job of ‘tweaking’ the story for the “John Carter” movie.

    It was supposedly based on “A Princess of Mars”, but only the names have been KEPT to protect the innocent (story line).

  87. avatar
    Northland10 March 14, 2012 at 8:40 pm #

    Al Halbert: So that give the Tides Foundation

    I went through the latest grantee list for the Tides Foundations. I see health, education, feeding the hungry, missing children, arts and various other organizations receiving grants. Obviously helping the Boys and Girls Club and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is a great liberal plot to destroy America and means that Obama is not eligible. I thought the idea of reducing taxes was to move government handouts to the private sector charities, yet, when charities help they are called evil.

    I suppose, since they are supporting the arts also, they are all part of the conspiracy by giving money so an orchestra can perform Dvořák’s “New World Order” Symphony.

    Really Al, how can you claim to love America while demonstrating that you hate most Americans?

  88. avatar
    Majority Will March 14, 2012 at 8:41 pm #

    DG:
    I just heard the end of a piece on NPR’s All Things Considered about Obama’s birth certificate.I couldn’t get to it quickly enough to turn the radio up and I am not finding it on their website.Anyone hear it this evening?

    This?
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=148627738

  89. avatar
    Rickey March 14, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

    Al Halbert:

    For the assertions of Constitutional Violations, here is the opinion of Ilya Shapiro whois a senior fellow in constitutional studies at the Cato Institute and editor-in-chief of the Cato Supreme Court Review.

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/04/president-obamas-top-10-constitutional-violations/3/

    Really? Shapiro lists Obama’s Top 10 Constitutional violations, yet he fails to include the fact that Obama usurped the Presidency? I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

  90. avatar
    Majority Will March 14, 2012 at 8:50 pm #

    Rickey: Really? Shapiro lists Obama’s Top 10 Constitutional violations, yet he fails to include the fact that Obama usurped the Presidency? I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

    Oops. :-D

  91. avatar
    Keith March 14, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

    Thomas Brown: Not for another 3 years really (3/14/15). Maybe rough pi day?

    My new prediction for the end of the world, and I’m gonna start spreading it everywhere, is 14 March 2015 at 9:26 in the morning.

    Fortunately for me, it will only happen in the USA. I just have to make sure I’m not there.

  92. avatar
    Northland10 March 14, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

    Possibly due to the mootness of the issue, the Injunctions asked for in the Georgia Supreme Court were denied today.

    http://www.gasupreme.us/docket_search/results_style.php?searchterm=obama&submit=Search

  93. avatar
    Rickey March 14, 2012 at 9:10 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    At least you got one right. Obama’s popularity (or decline thereof) does track gas prices pretty well, even though authorities agree that the President can’t really affect the short-term price of gas.

    A perfect example is the fact that unrest in the Sudan has caused oil exports from South Sudan to be cut off. China gets 60% of its oil from the Sudan and has had to make up the shortfall by buying on the open market, thereby driving up the price of crude.

    There is nothing that the President or anyone else can do about it.

  94. avatar
    aarrgghh March 14, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    At least you got one right. Obama’s popularity (or decline thereof) does track gas prices pretty well, even though authorities agree that the President can’t really affect the short-term price of gas.

    hmm … i think i’ve seen this movie before.

  95. avatar
    Whatever4 March 14, 2012 at 9:13 pm #

    Novice Debunker:
    Hi All,

    A birfer that I know claims that Obama has had his school records sealed, and therefore must have something very bad to hide (and of course, she says that he has spent millions keepingstuff secret.)

    I can’t find much actual, non birfer, information with Google — what’s the deal with BHO’s school records?

    Novice

    No president or candidate has voluntarily released college records before an election or while in office, so Obama is doing exactly what others have done. (Transcripts that people have seen were obtained by competitors or journalists.) Nobody’s records are “sealed” in any way that’s unique to them — privacy laws cover everyone.

    Obama graduated from Harvard Law School magna cum laude, which is the top 10% of the class by GPA. As for his undergraduate performance: as he transferred from Occidental to Columbia after 2 years, he wasn’t eligible for Latin Honors at Columbia. His professors sopke highly of him, though.

    There’s no good reason for any candidate to release academic records. Detractors will either label the candidate as eliteist (if the grades are good) or a slacker (if they aren’t), they’ll pick apart his courses (“Economics? He obviously didn’t learn anything” or “World Cultures? He’s anti-American!), etc.

  96. avatar
    US Citizen March 14, 2012 at 9:23 pm #

    Novice Debunker:
    Hi All,

    A birfer that I know claims that Obama has had his school records sealed, and therefore must have something very bad to hide (and of course, she says that he has spent millions keepingstuff secret.)

    I can’t find much actual, non birfer, information with Google — what’s the deal with BHO’s school records?

    Novice

    I’ll bite.
    The situation with school records is that there are laws or school policies protecting disclosure.
    Obama didn’t author these rules nor request any special seal.
    You can’t get my records and I can’t get yours.
    Regardless, school records reflect how well and complete students learned their courses.
    In order for Obama to move up through scholastic ranks, he must have done pretty good because he ultimately became a senator, then President of the United States.
    You might say that becoming President is the ultimate A+ grade as it’s empirical evidence he succeeded at understanding politics.
    It’s the same reason no one asks what the grades are of a baseball player who just hit a home run.
    It’s also the answer as to why most rightwingers and birthers you talk to have no chance at becoming the President (and they know it): They simply don’t have the credentials of past accomplishments be they scholastic attainment or real-world achievements.

  97. avatar
    Scientist March 14, 2012 at 9:30 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: At least you got one right. Obama’s popularity (or decline thereof) does track gas prices pretty well, even though authorities agree that the President can’t really affect the short-term price of gas

    I’m not sure that’s really true. There happened to be 2 polls released earlier in the week that showed a drop in the approval ratings, but since then there were 2 today that showed a rise. The average of all the polls shows an uptrend since the fall that has probably leveled off, but leaves Obama at essentially even approve/disapprove.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

    The poll average also shows Obama with a 4% lead over Rmoney and 8% over Sanctorum.

  98. avatar
    justlw March 14, 2012 at 10:03 pm #

    Novice Debunker: A birfer that I know claims that Obama has had his school records sealed

    Ask your sparring partner how you would go about getting to his (your sparring partner’s) records. If it turns out that you in fact can’t, ask him what he did to “seal” them.

    (Answer: there’s a website called http://sealALLtherecords.ru/ . There’s a PayPal button, which is how the President’s lawyers spent those millions.)

  99. avatar
    jayhg March 14, 2012 at 11:05 pm #

    This is a post today from butterdezillion over at free republic:

    “Here’s a post that gives links for info on the media threats (which you probably know all about already but maybe others reading this don’t): http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2858229/posts?page=83#83

    And here’s a link to a thread where I asked people to contact their Congress-critters to ask for Congressional hearings on Arpaio’s findings: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2856341/posts

    It explains why Sheriff Joe needs a FEDERAL investigation in addition to his AZ state investigation.

    The USA has descended into lawlessness – largely because Soros has taken the whole system hostage. If Trump can get the word out to the uninformed masses, as a substitute for the kidnapped media, we might be able to see a crack in the ice that’s frozen up the normal means of accountability.”

    Why does she say that ALL the media has been threatened and she keeps posting free republic threads which she says is proof. She posts a lot of other links but I’ve never bothered to click on them because I find that birthers usually have things all wrong, but I am just wondering if anyone can bring a little clarity – I find her so deluded that I can’t deal with her book length posts.

  100. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 11:29 pm #

    Thrifty: Well I was thinking of that Intrade number Misha keeps quoting.

    I treat Intrade as a poll. People bet real money on real world issues, which I think gives it more credibility. They have an accuracy better than 90%.

    The only times they were wrong recently was Sharron Angle, and Tancredo.

  101. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 11:44 pm #

    Thrifty: If only he’d done a full scale invasion of a middle Eastern country, gotten at least 5000 Americans killed

    Quadruple that of wounded, missing eyes, limbs, 3rd degree burns, psychiatric cases…all so Cheney’s coterie could get their paws on oil.

    What the US did in Iran in 1953, was repeated 50 years later next door. Khomeini is our fault.

  102. avatar
    misha March 14, 2012 at 11:59 pm #

    Al Halbert: here is the opinion of Ilya Shapiro

    Ilya Kuryakin Shapiro is a refusenik, and that explains everything.

  103. avatar
    DG March 15, 2012 at 12:08 am #

    Majority Will: This?
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=148627738

    Thanks! I really did look before I posted! LOL I bet that was it…it was much shorter on-air but I’d guess they just did a summary of it.

  104. avatar
    G March 15, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    You answered your own question in your last sentence.

    jayhg: Why does she say that ALL the media has been threatened and she keeps posting free republic threads which she says is proof. She posts a lot of other links but I’ve never bothered to click on them because I find that birthers usually have things all wrong, but I am just wondering if anyone can bring a little clarity – I find her so deluded that I can’t deal with her book length posts.

  105. avatar
    misha March 15, 2012 at 12:29 am #

    Scientist: The poll average also shows Obama with…an 8% lead over Sanctorum.

    Don’t forget the definition of Santorum. Spread the word.

    Then there’s this gem from Sanctorum: “What we say is that in order for Mom to be able to go on welfare if she has a child out of wedlock, you have to tell us who the father is,” Santorum said at an event in Carlisle, Pa., on April 1, 1994. “If you don’t tell us who the father is, you’re not eligible for any welfare benefits, none, not even medical care. You tell us who the father is or you don’t receive benefits.”

    “We say to Mom that you tell us the wrong name, and we’ll bring that guy in and we’ll do a blood test and that’s not Dad, you lose your welfare benefits.”

    Read on:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/rick-santorum-single-mothers-unwed-moms_n_1333302.html

  106. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 1:59 am #

    Make all the excuses you want. You cited a biased source and I caught you at it. You tried to divert attention by bringing up a source I never used. You haven’t fooled anybody.

    Al Halbert: It is disingenuous at best and………at worst either they are both biased or they are not, pretending otherwise is silly.

  107. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 2:12 am #

    Just for the record, the Koch brothers have more money than Soros.

    jayhg: The USA has descended into lawlessness – largely because Soros has taken the whole system hostage

  108. avatar
    J. Potter March 15, 2012 at 2:12 am #

    Haha, the school records meme again … !

    What’s the deal with the school records? Well, let me refer you to the work of a brilliant prognosticator, Laura Joffe Numeroff. Her most famous and prescient work, which shockingly anticipated the birther movement and the problem of how to handle questions regarding Obama’s eligibility 20 years in advance, is still in print and readily available. It addresses both the question of whether birthers should be allowed access to Obama’s school records—whether birthers should be allowed access to records of any kind!—as well as how such requests should be handled. Thus, it’s a necessary read for birthers and anti-birthers alike.

    You can buy a copy here.

    Or, if strapped for cash, it’s been adapted to Powerpoint* format.
    ________________________

    * I know, I know, Powerpoint sucks big brass ones, but what can I do? Compound the copyright infringement by converting to PDF and re-uploading? I would never do that.

  109. avatar
    J. Potter March 15, 2012 at 2:17 am #

    misha: What the US did in Iran in 1953, was repeated 50 years later next door. Khomeini is our fault.

    I think the 2003 American Middle Eastern Remodeling Team could take a few lessons from the 1953 squad. I think the 2003 team did a better job on the replacement gov’t piece, but totally blew the cleanup. Can we get the best of both approaches? Probably not. Would require a ‘temporary’ strongman. I can’t think of any temporary strongman programs that had a success rate higher than 0%.

  110. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny March 15, 2012 at 7:39 am #

    I just want to thank all Americans (can I say that includes the birthers?) for the condolences extended by President Obama to the Belgian people over the bus crash in Switzerland, in which 22 school children died.

  111. avatar
    Al Halbert March 15, 2012 at 9:23 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Make all the excuses you want. You cited a biased source and I caught you at it. You tried to divert attention by bringing up a source I never used. You haven’t fooled anybody.

    Honest debate is not in your vocabulary, you refuse to debate in a honorable manner, so I used a biased source, and what sources are not biased when discussing political issues?
    Would they be government sources, when they are being deliberately covered up and hidden from the public! Case in point;

    The decision to eliminate the Statistical Abstract of the United States which has been in constant publication since 1878 and is produced by the U.S. Census Bureau and is the comprehensive statistical compilation of our social, political and economic organization of the United States and our government spending. Which has been produced during every major calamity to befall our nation since then and includes WWI & II, the Depressions of 1921 and the Great Depression, Korean War, Viet Nam, Taking us off the Gold Standard every president since Rutherford B. Hayes, now that we have big spender Obama, it is no longer needed? This move is nothing more than anti business and anti American keeping us in the dark like mushrooms as he shovels more manure on us.

    The statement of the Census Bureau;

    The U.S. Census Bureau is terminating the collection of data for the Statistical Compendia program effective October 1, 2011. The Statistical Compendium program is comprised of the Statistical Abstract of the United States and its supplemental products – – the State and Metropolitan Area Data Book and the County and City Data Book. In preparation for the Fiscal Year 2012 (FY 2012) budget, the Census Bureau did a comprehensive review of a number of programs and had to make difficult proposals to terminate and reduce a number of existing programs in order to acquire funds for higher priority programs. The decision to propose the elimination of this program was not made lightly. To access the most current data, please refer to the organizations cited in the source notes for each table of the Statistical Abstract.

    Internet Link to statement of the Census Bureau;

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/

    So while the government runs Trillion dollar deficits, spending mostly on welfare and crony capitalism it cannot afford the few measly dollars so that the public and business has the raw data needed to verify what our government is saying is true? If you support such nonsense then your values are quite a bit left from center.

    When you refuse to accept anything and any source except the ones you endorse, please provide the list on what these sources are that has passed the Dr. Conspiracy irony and truth meter tests! Your premise is foolish as everything you cite is equally biased, only it fits your slanted view of the premise you proffer. To say your arguments are lofty and genuine when anyone that has a different perspective is biased is just deceitful. Just like the president you support with unquestionable fervor as he stacks the deck as well, as is shown by the actions of the Census Bureau.

  112. avatar
    RuhRoh March 15, 2012 at 9:37 am #

    Al Halbert: Regardless of which side you support on whether or not Obama is a usurper or duly elected as president History will not be kind to this generation that allowed the question to fester and the unbridled destruction of the Constitution under his watch.

    I actually do think that the Birthers will be remembered, although not in the manner in which Al imagines.

    The Birthers’ antics will be included as an example of the racism and xenophobia that the election of our first black president brought into the mainstream political conversation. The Birhters will be recorded as a faction of shameful bigots.

  113. avatar
    RuhRoh March 15, 2012 at 9:42 am #

    Novice Debunker: Hi All,A birfer that I know claims that Obama has had his school records sealed, and therefore must have something very bad to hide (and of course, she says that he has spent millions keeping stuff secret.)I can’t find much actual, non birfer, information with Google — what’s the deal with BHO’s school records?Novice

    Others have covered most of the high points, including that the records have not in any way been “sealed” by Obama.

    But Birthers also want to see the school records because they believe that there would be some evidence of financial aid that is only available to foreign students. As many of them believe he is foreign-born, the Birthers think that he probably received some sort of loan or grant exclusive to foreign students.

    How they expect to find evidence of Obama’s educational financing through transcripts is beyond me, but, then again, Birthers are not known for logical thinking.

  114. avatar
    Al Halbert March 15, 2012 at 9:58 am #

    Rickey: A perfect example is the fact that unrest in the Sudan has caused oil exports from South Sudan to be cut off. China gets 60% of its oil from the Sudan and has had to make up the shortfall by buying on the open market, thereby driving up the price of crude.

    There is nothing that the President or anyone else can do about it.

    Approving the Keystone pipeline and opening up offshore and government land for exploration and drilling drilling would immediately drop the price of crude on the world market, as it is a spot market for future delivery. Oil price as we speak 105.17 bbl, down $.25.

    http://pierrelegrand.net/2008/07/15/gosh-president-bush-opens-up-off-shore-drilling-and-prices-dropwill-wonders-never-cease.htm

    http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1815884,00.html

  115. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 10:14 am #

    More self-evident speculation from your fertile brain? Most futures prices quoted are for APRIL and I don’t see any pipelines completed in APRIL

    (Futures contracts can go out as far as 80 months)

    http://www.wtrg.com/daily/crudeoilprice.html#Light

    Al Halbert: Approving the Keystone pipeline and opening up offshore and government land for exploration and drilling drilling would immediately drop the price of crude on the world market, as it is a spot market for future delivery.

  116. avatar
    Al Halbert March 15, 2012 at 10:16 am #

    Al Halbert: Rickey: A perfect example is the fact that unrest in the Sudan has caused oil exports from South Sudan to be cut off. China gets 60% of its oil from the Sudan and has had to make up the shortfall by buying on the open market, thereby driving up the price of crude.

    There is nothing that the President or anyone else can do about it.

    Approving the Keystone pipeline and opening up offshore and government land for exploration and drilling drilling would immediately drop the price of crude on the world market, as it is a spot market for future delivery. Oil price as we speak 105.17 bbl, down $.25.

    http://pierrelegrand.net/2008/07/15/gosh-president-bush-opens-up-off-shore-drilling-and-prices-dropwill-wonders-never-cease.htm

    http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1815884,00.html

    This is in regard to the understated resources our president believes we do not have.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/03/us_has_60_times_more_oil_than_obama_claims.html

  117. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 10:20 am #

    Poor baby.

    Al Halbert: Honest debate is not in your vocabulary,

  118. avatar
    Scientist March 15, 2012 at 10:31 am #

    An interesting tidbit on oil prices- When Bush took office in Jan 2001, oil prices were $28/bbl. On election day 2004 they were $48/bbl.

    According to our pal Al, this was all Bush’s fault and he should have been defeated for re-election.

  119. avatar
    Al Halbert March 15, 2012 at 10:34 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    More self-evident speculation from your fertile brain? Most futures prices quoted are for APRIL and I don’t see any pipelines completed in APRIL

    (Futures contracts can go out as far as 80 months)

    http://www.wtrg.com/daily/crudeoilprice.html#Light

    Yet you ignore my comment on your and our presidents bias, curious? By the way you never disputed Shapiro’s comments on the unconstitutional actions of Obama as you used misdirection as to a biased source as an organization supported by the Koch Brothers, so what. In debate and law if an assertion is not denied it is accepted as admitted, since you failed to dispute even one FACT, you wholly failed to defend against my premise. Whats worse you shot the messenger, the same as Obama does when faced with difficult questions. You have a habit of not engaging when FACTS are given and verifiable.

    Obama takes it one step further, he uses the full weight and power of our government to cover up his malfeasance and corruption with the FACT of the Census Bureau to end the Statistical Abstract, damning evidence of glaring manipulation of our traditional government reporting requirements prior to the ascension of Obama. The danger of course is that now there is not a single source of data to use by the government to distribute needs based assistance to cities, towns and states and will be even more dishonest as it will more than likely only be given to supporters and their communities.

  120. avatar
    JPotter March 15, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    Oh dear, Al has discovered the source of all truth, The American Thinker

    If Obama if such a constraint on the US petroplex, why is domestic production at an all-time high?

    How low does Al predict prices will go if the US declares open season on every oil driblet and natch gas fart in the empire?

    Guess what, Al? The entities responsible for bringing the oil to market have no interest in cheap oil. All of their interests are in a tight market, and in a world believing in a limited supply. Why sell at $10 if you can get $100? They are capitalists, are they not?

    As for the Keystone XL, you do know what’s it’s designed to do, don’t you? It’s intended to deliver synth-o-crude from shale and oil sands in Alberta to market. Those resources are only viable if the price of crude remains high. If building the pipeline would cause crude prices to crater (it won’t), then it’d be a plan to install nothing more than fancy dry plumbing. Crude at $20 means no oil from Alberta.

  121. avatar
    Whatever4 March 15, 2012 at 10:51 am #

    jayhg:

    Why does she say that ALL the media has been threatened and she keeps posting free republic threads which she says is proof.She posts a lot of other links but I’ve never bothered to click on them because I find that birthers usually have things all wrong, but I am just wondering if anyone can bring a little clarity – I find her so deluded that I can’t deal with her book length posts.

    The Cliffs Notes(tm) are here: http://www.thefogbow.com/arpaio-report/

    Search for the string: “Claims From After the Press Conference” (I didn’t put downlinks on the report.) The story has basically stayed unchanged since the original rumor sprung forth fully formed from Zeus’s head 2.5 years ago.

  122. avatar
    Lupin March 15, 2012 at 11:40 am #

    I don’t think in my entire life I have ever come across someone as moronic and ignorant as Al Halbert.

    Sometimes I wonder if your country isn’t devolving, lead in the water or something like that. It’s quite mind-boggling.

    We have our own presidential campaign going on here, so a lot of folks don’t follow your campaign (yet), but the ones I’ve talked to can’t believe the Republican Party is being represented by these dangerous clowns. It’s like watching elections in, I don’t know, Senegal or some place where they use voodoo. (with apologies to voodoo practitioners.)

    You can’t imagine the harm your campaign is doing to your country’s image overseas. (Or read the comments in The Grauniad’s blog.)

  123. avatar
    JPotter March 15, 2012 at 11:57 am #

    Lupin: You can’t imagine the harm your campaign is doing to your country’s image overseas.

    Well, they may as well know the truth.

    So, when’s the intervention?

  124. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 12:09 pm #

    Nor do I intend to. Obama’s job performance is off topic for this web site.

    Al Halbert: By the way you never disputed Shapiro’s comments on the unconstitutional actions of Obama

  125. avatar
    NBC March 15, 2012 at 12:18 pm #

    Al Halbert: Obama takes it one step further, he uses the full weight and power of our government to cover up his malfeasance and corruption with the FACT of the Census Bureau to end the Statistical Abstract, damning evidence of glaring manipulation of our traditional government reporting requirements prior to the ascension of Obama.

    You are not making any sense here.. What is it exactly that you accuse Obama of doing? What malfeasance and corruption?

    Funny how you are not affected much by fact and evidence but rather by hate and ignorance. Poor Al allows himself to be so easily manipulated.

  126. avatar
    Rickey March 15, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

    Al Halbert: Approving the Keystone pipeline and opening up offshore and government land for exploration and drilling drilling would immediately drop the price of crude on the world market, as it is a spot market for future delivery.

    Not only is that not true, there is no guarantee that the oil produced via the Keystone pipeline will even be sold in the United States.

    Canadian companies backing the Keystone XL – touted as enhancing US energy security with a big new surge of imported Canadian oil – actually expect it to supply more lucrative Gulf Coast export markets as well as raise Midwest oil prices by reducing “oversupply” in that region.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46689167/ns/us_news-christian_science_monitor/t/how-much-would-keystone-pipeline-help-us-consumers/#.T2IUFXl0QQo

    As for offshore drilling, how quickly you forget about Deepwater Horizon.

  127. avatar
    Lupin March 15, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

    JPotter: Well, they may as well know the truth.

    So, when’s the intervention?

    We have our hands full with Ivory Coast. :-)

  128. avatar
    NBC March 15, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    Al Halbert: So have you informed your readers that Justice Gray an appointee of Arthur mangled Wong Kim Ark to make the case for Arthur’s less than stellar birth.

    There is no evidence for this silly scenario…

    Horace Gray was appointed on December 20, 1881 during Arthur’s presidency from 1881–1885.

    US v Wong Kim Ark was decided in 1898… Not much relevance to Arthur’s eligibility here…

    Poor Al… Facts continue to show him empty-handed.

  129. avatar
    NBC March 15, 2012 at 12:32 pm #

    Al Halbert: Obama has done to give cover to his many illegal acts, with Fast & Furious front and center

    Fast and Furious was a program started under Bush… Calling it illegal is somewhat of a stretch…

    A briefing paper prepared for Attorney General Michael Mukasey during the Bush administration in 2007 outlined failed attempts by federal agents to track illicitly purchased guns across the border into Mexico and stressed the need for U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials to work together on such efforts using a tactic that now is generating controversy.

    The information contained in one paragraph of a lengthy Nov. 16, 2007, document marks the first known instance of an attorney general being given information about the tactic known as “gun-walking.” It since has become controversial amid a probe by congressional Republicans criticizing the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives for using it during the Obama administration in an arms-trafficking investigation called Operation Fast and Furious that focused on several Phoenix-area gun shops.

    Sigh…

  130. avatar
    Al Halbert March 15, 2012 at 12:32 pm #

    Lupin: Sometimes I wonder if your country isn’t devolving, lead in the water or something like that. It’s quite mind-boggling.

    Couldn’t agree more!

    However deficit spending to the extent that Obama is doing without an Approved Budget is far more dangerous than an imagined Republican agenda! It is 1000 plus days since we have had an approved budget, last approved budget GWB for 2009. With the Stimulus and the Omnibus spending bill which was advocated by Obama brought the deficit for 2009 to 1.4 Trillion, from the proposed 200 Billion approved in the 2009 Budget by a Democrat controlled House and Senate and signed by GWB. Average Bush deficit per year was only 250 billion (8 years Bush Obama’s 3) versus Obama’s 1.25 trillion, a 5X increase on average.

    We have had trillion dollar deficits since then without an approved budget for 2010, 2011 and a projected deficit for 2012 of 1.33 Trillion, Harry Reid refuses to bring one to the floor for a vote, that means NO accountability or reconciling these expended funds. Spending has been done by continuing resolutions. The deficit spending under Obama will add 6.2 trillion to the national debt in only 4 years (by November), that is a rate that is 6X greater than Bush in 1/2 the time. No other president has added such monumental amounts of debt to the nations treasury. However only 51% of our Nations taxpayers pay Federal Income taxes, the rest either get more back in benefits or tax credits or pay nothing, no sweat off Obama as it is mostly the actual workers that pay taxes, not his constituents.

    So while you rail against the perceived bogey and straw man arguments made against the Republicans, real damage is occurring to our economy and nation, and the world. As our economy goes, so does the world. My children and grandchildren will have a markedly different lifestyle than I have had if this economic destruction is not halted quickly and this unbridled spending halted. Everything else besides this economic reality is classic misdirection.

  131. avatar
    NBC March 15, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    For the assertions of Constitutional Violations, here is the opinion of Ilya Shapiro who is a senior fellow in constitutional studies at the Cato Institute and editor-in-chief of the Cato Supreme Court Review.

    ROTFL… That’s your best argument? I doubt you can even support your position in a real argument…

    Graphic Tobacco Ads… My goodness sakes, what a Constitutional violation…

    Perhaps you should consider the sources of your information before you let yourself become a mindless puppet in their hands?

    May I suggest you consider starting to think for yourself and figure out if there is anything real to these allegations?… Instead, your hate and ignorance is fueling your confirmation bias. Very interesting.

  132. avatar
    Al Halbert March 15, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Nor do I intend to. Obama’s job performance is off topic for this web site.

    Having a difficult time understanding the logic or lack of it, separating the man from his performance, in the end they are one in the same. It’s like saying that Hitler was justified in his subversion of the German Nation and not condone the acts of genocide under his watch, is it not? Beside you made this an open thread!

  133. avatar
    Rickey March 15, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

    Al Halbert: By the way you never disputed Shapiro’s comments on the unconstitutional actions

    I’m still waiting for you to explain why Obama’s usurpation of the Presidency didn’t make Shapiro’s Top Ten list. Obama’s other “unconstitutional actions,” whether real or imaginary, have nothing to do with his eligibility to be President.

  134. avatar
    JPotter March 15, 2012 at 12:42 pm #

    Lupin: We have our hands full with Ivory Coast.

    Sometimes, I think of Of Mice and Men.The Reds love this country and want to hug it and play with it and call it George. But in doing so, due to crude, bumbling, impulsive, simplemindedness, their “love” only hurts that which they care about. Will our better half go find the gun and clean house (figuratively of course), or will outside forces have to do it for us in self-defense? Or, if the Lennie wins, will we take ourselves out?

    Many countries are burdened with regressive elements, but few other countries hold such sway. Few like … none. Being the biggest potential Lennie, we’re the biggest potential well-intentioned threat.

    Good luck with Cote d’Ivoire!

  135. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 12:47 pm #

    This web site is not about the man either. It is about conspiracy theories concerning him.

    Al Halbert: Having a difficult time understanding the logic or lack of it, separating the man from his performance, in the end they are one in the same

  136. avatar
    Joey March 15, 2012 at 1:11 pm #

    Another Arizona “birther” bill has been passed by a legislative committee:
    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/03/15/ariz-officials-revisit-obamas-birth-certificate/?test=latestnews#ixzz1pCcW4IeF

  137. avatar
    sfjeff March 15, 2012 at 1:13 pm #

    Al Halbert: Having a difficult time understanding the logic or lack of it, separating the man from his performance, in the end they are one in the same. !

    One of the things I have seen over and over is that for Birthers ‘the man’s’ eligiblity and their review of his performance are arm and arm.

    Just as Al shows, he believes that the President is ineligible and that the President is destroying America- I do not think he can seperate the two issues.

    I will go further and say that in my experience, every Birther had come to these same conclusions either before Obama’s inaugeration, or if after that, before ever looking at any evidence. In all cases, Birthers conclude that he is ineligible, and then scour the Birthernet looking for reasons why.

    That is what I am opposed to.

  138. avatar
    JPotter March 15, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    Al is not a very good Christian? Love the sinner, hate the sin, Al.

  139. avatar
    richCares March 15, 2012 at 2:10 pm #

    “real damage is occurring to our economy and nation”
    that is funny, did you get that from “The Onion”

  140. avatar
    Al Halbert March 15, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    This web site is not about the man either. It is about conspiracy theories concerning him.

    Well then you get what you pay for!

  141. avatar
    Scientist March 15, 2012 at 3:18 pm #

    Al Halbert: Having a difficult time understanding the logic or lack of it, separating the man from his performance, in the end they are one in the same.

    Just to give one instance, I thought GWBush’s performance as President was abysmal-by far the worst in the last 50 years, but I actually don’t consider him an evil person. I would gladly accept an invite to watch a Rangers game with him (as long as I could cheer against the Rangers and have a beer or 2). Nixon, on the other hand, was an evil person, but I think he did some very good things as President, along with some bad ones.

    I cefrtainly accept that both Bush and Nixon were natural born citizens, though I doubt Bush was eligible for his first term (on account of not actually winning the election).

  142. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) March 15, 2012 at 4:09 pm #

    sfjeff: One of the things I have seen over and over is that for Birthers the man’s’ eligiblity and their review of his performance are arm and arm.Just as Al shows, he believes that the President is ineligible and that the President is destroying America- I do not think he can seperate the two issues.I will go further and say that in my experience, every Birther had come to these same conclusions either before Obama’s inaugeration, or if after that, before ever looking at any evidence. In all cases, Birthers conclude that he is ineligible, and then scour the Birthernet looking for reasons why.That is what I am opposed to.

    Which puts them on the same plane as creationists or as they now call themselves “intelligent design believers”. They do the scientific method backwards they start with a conclusion and then fit the data around their conclusion and then create an hypothesis based on the data they fit around the conclusion. None of it lines up.

  143. avatar
    y_p_w March 15, 2012 at 4:11 pm #

    I noticed that our buddy David Farrar has been commenting on the Savannah Guthrie photos of the LFBC posted to Lockerz. I noticed that he continues to claim that there’s no seal visible in the photo, and whether or not one is going to trust others. When someone said he just did a screenshot and sent it to a photo viewer to perform a blowup, he starts changing the question to whether or not the seal can be read or if it’s just the outline that’s visible.

    http://lockerz.com/s/96540937

    Personally I don’t even have to use anything special to view it. I can just use CTRL + and it blows up everything, from the photo to the text. I see the pixelated outline of the seal just fine. Of course it can’t be read since the resolution is just too low. Frankly I have a hard time reading some embossed seals for vital records or school transcripts in my house. A few have been razor sharp. Some have had inconsistenly applied seals. One seal on a marriage certificate barely shows up even in person, while other copies obtained at a later date had clear looking seals. The Great Seal of California stamp on my kid’s birth certificate is blurry; I’m thinking the alignment of the plates could have been off. You can sort of see what it is, but the text isn’t readable. From what I could tell, Obama’s LFBC was imprinted with a weak looking seal from.

    He’s also asking why when one clicks on the photo, it advances to a closeup of the certificate that doesn’t include the area with the seal. Of course that’s how Lockerz works – in that clicking on any photo advances to the next photo from a particular user. if you click on the closeup photo, it just advances to a photo of her on the outdoor set of Today.

    I just wish she could have uploaded a higher resolution version of the photos she took. I’m pretty sure that Lockerz doesn’t save the original full-size photo, but compacts photos into a standard size using lossy compression. You can definitely see some artifacts from the downsizing, such as jaggies on diagonal lines.

    I’m pretty sure the original photo from her camera phone would show a lot more detail.

  144. avatar
    NBC March 15, 2012 at 4:54 pm #

    Al Halbert: Well then you get what you pay for!

    Well we got you… Ain’t that the truth…

  145. avatar
    jayHG March 15, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Just for the record, the Koch brothers have more money than Soros.

    You do know that I was quoting butterdezillion from over at free republic talking about the entire media of the U. S. has been threatened to not report on the birth certificate stuff, right? FYI: I am completely aware of the Koch brothers and their desire to run the world….

  146. avatar
    Arthur March 15, 2012 at 5:10 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Just for the record, the Koch brothers have more money than Soros.

    And here’s something I didn’t know: back in 1980, guess who was the candidate for Vice President on the Libertarian party ticket? David H. Koch. Wikipedia reports that Koch and Presidential candidate Ed Clark promised to “abolish Social Security, the Federal Reserve Board, welfare, minimum-wage laws, corporate taxes, all price supports and subsidies for agriculture and business, and U.S. Federal agencies including the SEC, EPA, ICC, FTC, OSHA, FBI, CIA, and DOE. The ticket proposed legalization of prostitution, recreational drugs, and suicide.”

  147. avatar
    JPotter March 15, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

    What did the Soviets do to the Kochs to keep them so hacked off after all these years?

  148. avatar
    Al Halbert March 15, 2012 at 6:41 pm #

    NBC: ROTFL… That’s your best argument? I doubt you can even support your position in a real argument…

    Graphic Tobacco Ads… My goodness sakes, what a Constitutional violation…

    Perhaps you should consider the sources of your information before you let yourself become a mindless puppet in their hands?

    May I suggest you consider starting to think for yourself and figure out if there is anything real to these allegations?… Instead, your hate and ignorance is fueling your confirmation bias. Very interesting.

    Thanks but NO thanks I define my own reality, which is not defined by any politician or MSM source.

  149. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    Well duh. I said that the first time you showed up here.

    Al Halbert: Thanks but NO thanks I define my own reality,

  150. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

    Only just about everybody repeated that crummy AP wire story on it. There’s been a huge spike in birther reporting this month.

    jayHG: You do know that I was quoting butterdezillion from over at free republic talking about the entire media of the U. S. has been threatened to not report on the birth certificate stuff,

  151. avatar
    gorefan March 15, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

    y_p_w: noticed that our buddy David Farrar has been commenting on the Savannah Guthrie photos of the LFBC posted to Lockerz

    The Guthrie photo is a serious problem for the birthers and Sheriff Joe, their contention is that there is no paper document behind the pdf.

    Mara Zebest in her report even claimed that the Guthrie photo had been scrubbed from the internet. To make it sound suspicious.

    Both the Guthrie photo and the LFBC pdf have a seal. For the birthers to be right, someone created a file, printed it out and embossed it with a raised seal and in the meantime also created an image of a seal to go on the LFBC pdf. Obviously that is more work than just making the BC file, printing it onto security paper and then scanning that into an adobe pdf file.

  152. avatar
    Al Halbert March 15, 2012 at 8:18 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Well duh. I said that the first time you showed up here.

    Cheap shot, you even took my quote out of context, when the the full quote referred to a statement I made about the MSM or any politician and not any attribution to you. Disingenuous at best and deceitful at most, not unexpected though!

  153. avatar
    justlw March 15, 2012 at 9:08 pm #

    Al Halbert: one in the same

    “one and the same”

    I wouldn’t bring it up, but it’s spoiling the otherwise flawless perfection of your posts.

  154. avatar
    Majority Will March 15, 2012 at 9:44 pm #

    Al Halbert: Cheap shot

    Yo, Pot. Weren’t you going to whine about that scary, dark Kettle some more?

  155. avatar
    Thrifty March 15, 2012 at 9:54 pm #

    You said that you define your own reality. Nothing taken out of context there.

    Al Halbert: Cheap shot, you even took my quote out of context, when the the full quote referred to a statement I made about the MSM or any politician and not any attribution to you.Disingenuous at best and deceitful at most, not unexpected though!

  156. avatar
    Paper March 15, 2012 at 10:31 pm #

    How come every birther I personally know says this, but they all sound alike. Sometimes I wonder if I am talking to the same person here there and everywhere. I take care to try and keep my identity unstated because I I’d rather keep my real life arguments separate from this blog. So, I don’t know, maybe you’re actually someone I know personally (if that’s not your real name)?

    Al Halbert: Thanks but NO thanks I define my own reality, which is not defined by any politician or MSM source.

  157. avatar
    J. Potter March 15, 2012 at 10:32 pm #

    Al Halbert: Cheap shot, you even took my quote out of context, when the the full quote referred to a statement I made about the MSM or any politician and not any attribution to you.Disingenuous at best and deceitful at most, not unexpected though!

    AH, that’s really quite a stretch! ( Faux concern alert! )

    You said, “I define my own reality”, that was your thesis and it is an absolute … the rest of the “context” was a short list of external forcess that you say do not influence your wholly internally defined reality. The list could have been endless, it neither added nor subtracted from your absolute initial phrase. He may have dropped the window dressing, but Doc responded to your entire statement. If the “context” is an empty shell, there’s nothing to cry over.

    Anyone noticing how linguistically challenged and conceptually unsophisticated borthers tend to be? I know this sounds like a general statement, but it can be supported: I give you, the interwebs.

  158. avatar
    J. Potter March 15, 2012 at 10:34 pm #

    PS: “I define my own reality” = “I live in a fantasyland, isolated from society.” = “Inviting me to your dinner party would be unwise.”

  159. avatar
    Paper March 15, 2012 at 11:33 pm #

    To be fair, I believe that when Al Halbert states that he defines his own reality he primarily (though a bit grandiosely) is talking about being able to think for himself, use his own mind, without relying upon or parroting politicians or the main stream media.

    Of course there are some flaws with this approach. The key one I experience over and over again is that people making this declaration all sound alike and tend to get their information from cranks and liars and fools. I always love hearing about how I rely upon the media, and I always wonder where do you get your information? In some cases, those I know rely upon such as Alex Jones, Jerome Corsi, those kind of people. And that’s who they rely upon instead of the MSM? “Oh no! Wolf Blitzer is kind of lame. I know, Alex Jones is talking straight!” And such a person wants to criticize my news choices?

    In all cases, of course, what matters is being able to think for oneself, read between the lines. Pay attention to and sort through context.

    The trouble is birthers do tend to tilt over from such basics into something like “defining their own realities.” It’s not just a slip of word or just another way of putting it. Instead of critical thought, they tend to use assertion and declaration. And if you can’t see the New World Order in everything, then, according to such birthers, you are a sheeple. (I hope everyone’s irony meters were turned on just now!)

  160. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 11:34 pm #

    I would prefer to call it a “sucker punch.” Perhaps at the nit-pick level the quote was out of context, but in the larger context of your participation on the site, I think my use of the quote illuminates more than it misleads. (Plus the original quote is just one click away for anyone who hadn’t already read the whole thing).

    Al Halbert: Cheap shot, you even took my quote out of context

  161. avatar
    Rickey March 16, 2012 at 12:45 am #

    Al Halbert: Disingenuous at best and deceitful at most, not unexpected though!

    You mean like the way it was not unexpected that you would ignore my questions about why Shapiro has not called out Obama for usurping the Presidency? Usurpation is not a Top Ten Constitutional violation, but an anti-cigarette campaign is?

  162. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 16, 2012 at 3:07 am #

    Here is one I just did about the legal status of The Cold Case Posse.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/what-is-the-cold-case-posse/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  163. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny March 16, 2012 at 7:57 am #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Here is one I just did about the legal status of The Cold Case Posse.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/what-is-the-cold-case-posse/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    They should call themselves the Cold Case Crazy Posse.

    Mainly because the abbreviation has a C missing.

  164. avatar
    bovril March 16, 2012 at 8:07 am #

    Dear Al,

    To paraphrase far more erudite individuals than I…..

    “Al, you are entitled to your own opinion, you’re not entitled to your own set of facts”

    Now off you go, and continue you semi-intellectual masturbation fantasies abut items, issues and legal theories that don’t exist in the real world, adults talking here.

  165. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 8:46 am #

    This man’s father once said to him, “You won’t amount to a hill of beans.” Guess what, dad.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9148115/Man-killed-buried-under-20-foot-mound-of-pinto-beans.html

  166. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 9:19 am #

    Every time I see “CCP,” I think Soviet Socialist Republic. That’s one reason I avoid the acronym for the most part.

    Paul Pieniezny: Mainly because the abbreviation has a C missing.

  167. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 9:35 am #

    I woke this morning with an interesting perspective, why is the overarching theme of this site perpetually casting Obama as a victim? All of the efforts being made is to heap abuse on Birthers or anyone that questions his actions, motives or statements regarding his legal ability to serve as president.

    Isn’t he a big boy and wanted to sit in the big boy chair, so why can’t he defend himself, why is their a need for most everyone on this site and mainstream media to come to his defense. Is he that weak that he has to hide behind all these others? Why doesn’t he just release all of his records, instead of spending vast sums to keep them hidden there appears much discrepancy on how much this has cost him, some say 1 million some say several million to keep all of his records sealed. This does nothing to create an aura of believability and only adds nagging doubts that most Americans have about him, present company excluded

    Traditionally presidents prior to Obama have been willing to share their past as they have a duty to the American people to be open if they in turn ask and expect the people to support him. With Obama, it is call all the legislators, and people nuts and say how he cannot work with them, this is definitely not building bridges with them or the American people.

    We expect our presidents to be conciliators and overcome obstacles and able to negotiate and sell a plan to Congress and the people, to declare he cannot work with them is only admitting his own failings as a leader as he is unable to paint the canvas for others to see and want to share. Obama has been unable to move any significant legislation since 2011, when the House was taken by Republicans, he could only pass legislation when he had a Democrat majority, Bush was able to to get TARP passed with a Democrat House and Senate, which by the way has been mostly paid back.

    Autocrats make demands and claim that it is always someone else’s fault as an excuse to deny others their rights then curry favors on acolytes, supporters and sycophants. So it’s time to let him take those baby steps all by himself and stand up to the American people and come clean, you are only enabling him to continue in this deception of his past that is now seriously being called into question as it lacks substantiation. This will only become worse as the election nears.

  168. avatar
    JPotter March 16, 2012 at 9:53 am #

    Corsi’s Cold Case Posse.

    *cough*

  169. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 10:01 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I would prefer to call it a “sucker punch.” Perhaps at the nit-pick level the quote was out of context, but in the larger context of your participation on the site, I think my use of the quote illuminates more than it misleads. (Plus the original quote is just one click away for anyone who hadn’t already read the whole thing).

    This is the problem in this Nation in a nut shell; taking anything and everything out of context to push the agenda of Obama and the left. Honor and fair dealing is not in your vocabulary, though demean opponents with this same brush as they are somehow misleading and you demand fairness when you will not accord the same to an opponent.

    When an opponent does not have a meritorious position based on facts the leftist perspective is to always demean the messenger. So do yourself a favor and speak with authority and not hide behind subterfuge with disingenuous speech and try not slander others. You resorted to ridiculing me yesterday, I have found when someone devolves to this level it is always a sign of a weak character and intellect though is all to prevalent from the left.

  170. avatar
    The Magic M March 16, 2012 at 10:19 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Every time I see “CCP,” I think Soviet Socialist Republic.

    CCP games has a game called “World of Darkness”. How fitting.

    I also like “Chinese Communist Party”, “Cyclic citrullinated peptide” and “Concealed Carry Permit” (all from Wikipedia’s “CCP” page).

    Reading it as cyrillic “SSR” and taking Russian language abbreviations into account, we also get “Soviet Socialist Republic”, “Сам себе режиссёр” (“The director/producer himself”) – a russian TV series and “Shooting Union of Russia”.

  171. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Here is one I just did about the legal status of The Cold Case Posse.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/what-is-the-cold-case-posse/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Great Job; the salient points in your detailed article regarding the legality of a Posse in Arizona;

    “I think this sums it up:

    Today the Sheriff’s Posse in Maricopa County, Arizona, is an authentic, crime-fighting force. Over 2,500 men and women, have taken the official course and gotten themselves deputized to serve as more or less fully functioning cops, wearing real uniforms, driving real police cars.

    When I have more time I want to investigate why the posses are constituted as organizations. Maybe it is for insurance purposes. I do not know if individual posse members have workers’ comp insurance, for example. And, some states limit the damages that can be assessed against charitable organizations. So, there are still a few questions. But I think I have answered the question I set out to answer. The posses are cops.”

    This means that anything they investigate can and does have the full force of law in Arizona and collected evidence, subscribed and deemed to have probable cause when it evaluated by current law enforcement methods. If after the evidence is collected and their is probable cause it can be brought forward for an indictment. In Arizona can be made upon presentment to a judge or by grand jury indictment.

    Arizona Court link for Grand Juries;
    http://www.azcourts.gov/guidetoazcourts/ThePlayersinaTrialCourtroom.aspx

    Arizona Court link for Indictment by Presentment;
    http://www.azcourts.gov/guidetoazcourts/HowaCaseMovesThroughtheCourtSystem.aspx

  172. avatar
    Greenfinches March 16, 2012 at 11:10 am #

    Today’s quote from Bill Clinton (16 March), about the things to learn from Oklahoma City – super stuff. Basically, watch what you say as words have consequences that you may not expect or intend.

    Watch out for the lone wolf, and all that.

    How much I wish that most so-called pundits would pay attention, never mind politicians and birfers.

  173. avatar
    JPotter March 16, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

    Clinton has remarked several times about OKC, very eloquently … speeches at the site, speeches in reference, and an op-ed in the NYT.

    The event remains unique in that, to my knowledge, it’s the only modern terrorist conspiracy that was entirely domestic in scope, concern, motivation, and orgin. There have been several lone madmen recently, and countless incidents linked to the Middle East and/or radical Islam. There have been numerous isolated domestic groups that immolated themselves one way or another. And plenty of small scale acts of protest and terrorism in the ’60s and ’70s.But for a band of Americans to decide to go blow up the gov’t, and succeed, stands alone.

    I saw the site, I was 18, and it was like a freakshow, something odd, bizarre, something not likely to be seen again. How naïve! Never let your guard down. Clinton knew that lesson (in his professional capacities anyway). As soon as the guard was changed, lesson had to be relearned. Re-education is the most expensive kind.

  174. avatar
    RuhRoh March 16, 2012 at 12:25 pm #

    Reality Check Radio will have Arthur Goldwag as a guest next Tuesday, March 20 9PM EDT.

    Thought Doc would like to know. ;)

  175. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 1:09 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Every time I see “CCP,” I think Soviet Socialist Republic.

    This the very latest incarnation of the CCCP:
    http://commonsensepoliticalthought.com/?p=9297#comment-584952
    and
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/godsavethequeen/290948216/in/set-72157594304720222/

  176. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 16, 2012 at 1:48 pm #

    Squeeky to the rescue!!! Naming The Cold Case Posse Scandal:

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/surrogate-naming-the-cold-case-posse-scandal/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  177. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 16, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

    misha: This the very latest incarnation of the CCCP:
    http://commonsensepoliticalthought.com/?p=9297#comment-584952
    and
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/godsavethequeen/290948216/in/set-72157594304720222/

    Oh, in case anybody reads acrylic, this is what I made up for one of the “Pravda” thingies I did:

    Пролетарии все… стран, объединяйтесь!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  178. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Squeeky to the rescue!!! Naming The Cold Case Posse Scandal:

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/surrogate-naming-the-cold-case-posse-scandal/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    What is interesting is that Woodward and Bernstein wrote the Watergate Papers and benefited financially from their work and brought down Nixon, they are heroes. Zullo and Company write an e-book to get the story out, as only the Washington Times is the only major paper in the Country to do so and they are scandalized, interesting.

    Sounds like double standards. What I found so amazing is if the MSM considers their investigation a scandal and made up evidence, why would they not want to bring perpetrators to justice for making such spurious and scandalous accusations?

    To quote Shakespeare, “the Lady doth protest too much, methinks,” are they so afraid that their accusations have substance and do not want to look into the matter as it may be proven true, which is within the realm of statistical possibilities given the evidence so far.

  179. avatar
    G March 16, 2012 at 2:55 pm #

    Oh my! Thanks for the link to that bizarre story. What an unusual way to die.

    misha: This man’s father once said to him, “You won’t amount to a hill of beans.” Guess what, dad.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9148115/Man-killed-buried-under-20-foot-mound-of-pinto-beans.html

  180. avatar
    G March 16, 2012 at 2:58 pm #

    SURROGATE – A very apt choice! Kudos, as always, Squeeky. :)

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: Squeeky to the rescue!!! Naming The Cold Case Posse Scandal:http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/surrogate-naming-the-cold-case-posse-scandal/Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

  181. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 3:02 pm #

    Hmmpf. I still like INVESTI-GATE

    G: SURROGATE – A very apt choice! Kudos, as always, Squeeky

  182. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 3:10 pm #

    Al Halbert: What is interesting is that Woodward and Bernstein wrote the Watergate Papers and benefited financially from their work

    Woodward and Bernstein were REPORTERS working for a private newpaper. They never pretended to be cops working in an official capacity, like Zullo did. If Zullo was acting in an official capacity, then writing a book before there has been any indictment, let alone a trial, is a very big breach of professional ethics. If he was not a cop and there is nothing whatsoever official about his “investigation”, then it is simply one more birther circus.

    Your inability to see the enormous difference between the two situations suggests that you should visit misha and get a decent pair of glasses.

  183. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    Al Halbert: What I found so amazing is if the MSM considers their investigation a scandal and made up evidence, why would they not want to bring perpetrators to justice for making such spurious and scandalous accusations?

    I would be happy to see Zullo prosecuted. However, I’m not sure that “making spurious and scandalous accusations” is a crime. You see, unlike you, I reallize that not everything I don’t like is a crime.

  184. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    History judges these things, but from the middle of the story, it seems to me that the big difference is that Woodward and Bernstein were real journalists, who in conjunction with real editors in a respected news organization presented incontrovertible evidence about their conclusions. Zullo, on the other hand is an amateur, answerable to no one of any competence, investigated other birthers and published a pile of lying crap.

    Also significant is that fact that Woodward and Bernstein actually asserted that named individuals did specific things. Zullo and Arpaio went out of their way, repeatedly, refusing to accuse anybody of anything. Facts v. innuendo.

    Another major difference is that Woodward and Bernstein did not write a book about their findings, but about the investigation. Zullo and Corsi talk about their findings, and say hardly a word about their investigation — which mains largely a mystery. We don’t know, for example, if Zullo was ever even employed in law enforcement. On the other hand Woodward and Bernstein have a body of work.

    Al Halbert: What is interesting is that Woodward and Bernstein wrote the Watergate Papers and benefited financially from their work and brought down Nixon, they are heroes. Zullo and Company write an e-book to get the story out, as only the Washington Times is the only major paper in the Country to do so and they are scandalized, interesting.

  185. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 3:35 pm #

    It has been suggested that since Zullo was not employed by the Sheriff’s office, and because he took money for the investigation of a person, that he was guilty of acting as a private detective without a license. Of course, in Maricopa County, he’s not going to be prosecuted for that (nor apparently for rape should he ever be guilty of such a thing).

    Scientist: I would be happy to see Zullo prosecuted. However, I’m not sure that “making spurious and scandalous accusations” is a crime. You see, unlike you, I reallize that not everything I don’t like is a crime.

  186. avatar
    G March 16, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    They are both clever and good descriptions.

    My favorite part of this “scandal” is the backfire effect it has caused – it truly seems to have done irrepairable damage to the Birther cause more than any of their EPIC FAIL events before.

    After all, WND’s true goal has always been attempted manipulation of the public via pushing ficticious smears as scandal propaganda.

    The only thing accomplished by SURROGATE/INVESTI-GATE was to soundly demonstrate how immune the media and broader public have become to WND’s latest scam attempts.

    If it succeeded at anything, it was only to quarantine the BIrthers even further into the deep swamps of “batboy-level” tabloid nonsense that no one else pays attention to at all…

    Dr. Conspiracy: Hmmpf. I still like INVESTI-GATE
    G: SURROGATE – A very apt choice! Kudos, as always, Squeeky

  187. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 16, 2012 at 3:42 pm #

    Al Halbert:

    You said: “This means that anything they investigate can and does have the full force of law in Arizona and collected evidence, subscribed and deemed to have probable cause when it evaluated by current law enforcement methods. If after the evidence is collected and their is probable cause it can be brought forward for an indictment. In Arizona can be made upon presentment to a judge or by grand jury indictment.”

    That is where Sheriff Joe and The CCP (sounds like a country band, doesn’t it???) are going to crash and burn. Because assuming what they say is true, and the image was scanned together or something, what law has been broken if the information is the same???

    Because if scanning and cutting and pasting is illegal, everybody who uses Photoshop is in big trouble. Including me, because if you look at that picture of “Joseph Farah” in the Surrogate Internet Article, that really isn’t Farah, and Dracula doesn’t have a mustache.

    Sooo, please don’t tell Sheriff Joe that I am guilty of Interstate Transportation Of Phony Pixels.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  188. avatar
    G March 16, 2012 at 3:43 pm #

    Hey, something wrong happened. I don’t have a website, so I’m not sure why my G is highlighted and pointing to some scam site.

    Doc C – If you can please remove any weblink associated with my handle, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

  189. avatar
    Obsolete777 March 16, 2012 at 3:49 pm #

    Al Halbert: Why doesn’t he just release all of his records, instead of spending vast sums to keep them hidden there appears much discrepancy on how much this has cost him, some say 1 million some say several million to keep all of his records sealed.

    Al, you keep spreading lies and then wonder why you are mocked:
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/12/donald-trump/donald-trump-claims-obama-has-spent-2-million-lega/

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/no-president-obama-hasnt-spent-millions-to-keep-his-birth-certificate-private/

    Don’t you know that the same laws that protect your private records also protect the President’s?

    Al Halbert: Traditionally presidents prior to Obama have been willing to share their past as they have a duty to the American people to be open if they in turn ask and expect the people to support him

    Please link to past President’s birth certificates, as well as any other records they have released that you also demand from Obama.

  190. avatar
    JPotter March 16, 2012 at 3:49 pm #

    Guess what, Al? Woodward and Bernstein weren’t writing for the Times. I suggest looking into The Times’ history and journalistic reputation before spouting off next time! You made a funny and didn’t even know it. Brilliantly Ironic.

    Reminder, W&B can be seen for free, lecturing on the impact of Watergate and the development of the media since, 3/27, 7:30pm, Reynolds Center, Univeristy of Tulsa campus. 11th & Harvard. Hard to miss and pedestrian friendly.

    And a safe 8 miles from the infamous praying hands at that ‘other university’…. ;)

  191. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

    JPotter:
    Guess what, Al? Woodward and Bernstein weren’t writing for the Times. I suggest looking into The Times’ history and journalistic reputation before spouting off next time! You made a funny and didn’t even know it. Brilliantly Ironic.

    Reminder, W&B can be seen for free, lecturing on the impact of Watergate and the development of the media since, 3/27, 7:30pm, Reynolds Center, Univeristy of Tulsa campus. 11th & Harvard. Hard to miss and pedestrian friendly.

    And a safe 8 miles from the infamous praying hands at that other university’….

    The facts remain, whether it was the Post or Times, you have not attacked the central point to my argument, on the double standard and why the MSM refuses to investigate this matter from either the factual basis that Wooward & Bernstein profited or not. Furthermore the silence of the MSM on the issue pro or con speaks volume; this should be RED MEAT for them, why are they MIA?

  192. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It has been suggested that since Zullo was not employed by the Sheriff’s office, and because he took money for the investigation of a person, that he was guilty of acting as a private detective without a license.

    That gets into a tricky area. Reporters investigate people and get paid, but I doubt you or anyone else thinks they should have to get a license to do so. The problem with Zullo in my mind is not that he pretended to do an investigation and then wrote a book. Anyone is free to do that. The investigation was a sham and the book is garbage, but that isn’t a crime. The issue is that he pretended to be acting in an official capacity and the Sheriff is complicit in that pretense. If that is the case, then writing a book before the case is done is a real problem.

  193. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    Some are liars, some make stuff up, some speak foolishly, some just don’t pay attention, some don’t check their facts, some are lazy. When you repeat a lie like this, the only real question is, which activity fits you? Because this assertion is not worthy of legitimate discussion. You seem to want respect, but say things undeserving of respect. There is no respect to be given to such a lie. Whether or not you are knowingly lying or just passing on other people’s lies.

    I leave it to you to educate yourself, though I am keeping my expectations in check. In the meantime, such lies (witting or unwitting) do “nothing to create an aura of believability” around the birther cause and do much more than merely add to the “doubts that most Americans have” about birthers, to the point that most Americans understand birthers don’t

    People know what they are talking about, or in some cases are just lying.

    You decide for which reason your arguments do not get respect and notice. It is not because others are blind. If you want to talk about cop-outs, that would be numb one on the list. I don’t know why you pass on lies. You tell me. Any reason, as long as you acknowledge it is a lie (maybe someone e;se’s lie, but a lie nonetheless). Otherwise, you devalue everything else you say. This point has been debunked so many times that if you believe it, you are just locking yourself into a small little rhetorical and argumentative box that will never go anywhere. throwing around accusation about a President (or anyone for that matter) would do better to do some actual and real research, and use it, before they start casting aspersions, especially saying this kind of thing is high crimes or such. It belittles the real and actual crimes that a President may commit (such as Richard Nixon).

    Al Halbert: Why doesn’t he just release all of his records, instead of spending vast sums to keep them hidden there appears much discrepancy on how much this has cost him, some say 1 million some say several million to keep all of his records sealed. This does nothing to create an aura of believability and only adds nagging doubts that most Americans have about him

  194. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 4:10 pm #

    sorry about the messed up formatting… I think it still makes sense though

  195. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 4:11 pm #

    Only, the mainstream media has seen the paper document that Zullo said never existed. So there’s nothing more to investigate.

    CNN did a two-part investigation in Hawaii and busted a number of birther claims.

    The problem with birthers is that they have selective memory involving their past failures.

    Al Halbert: The facts remain, whether it was the Post or Times, you have not attacked the central point to my argument, on the double standard and why the MSM refuses to investigate this matter from either the factual basis that Wooward & Bernstein profited or not. Furthermore the silence of the MSM on the issue pro or con speaks volume; this should be RED MEAT for them, why are they MIA?

  196. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Al Halbert:

    You said: “This means that anything they investigate can and does have the full force of law in Arizona and collected evidence, subscribed and deemed to have probable cause when it evaluated by current law enforcement methods. If after the evidence is collected and their is probable cause it can be brought forward for an indictment. In Arizona can be made upon presentment to a judge or by grand jury indictment.”

    That is where Sheriff Joe and The CCP (sounds like a country band, doesn’t it???) are going to crash and burn. Because assuming what they say is true, and the image was scanned together or something, what law has been broken if the information is the same???

    Because if scanning and cutting and pasting is illegal, everybody who uses Photoshop is in big trouble. Including me, because if you look at that picture of “Joseph Farah” in the Surrogate Internet Article, that really isn’t Farah, and Dracula doesn’t have a mustache.

    Sooo, please don’t tell Sheriff Joe that I am guilty of Interstate Transportation Of Phony Pixels.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    White House dot gov is a Government Website, someone is responsible for the content or they are not? The law is clear on this matter, that an assertion was given on the posting of this data (Obama’s LFBC). Therefore it must be verifiable, if it is not then it is misleading and a crime under under current federal law.

    Truth in government is at issue here, Sheriff Joe did not post this LFBC, Obama directed it to be so, so that someone in this chain of command is responsible for it’s content. Is it your opinion that anything can be posted on a government website and there is NO responsibility that it be accurate, if you believe that than I have a bridge you may wish to purchase!

  197. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 4:19 pm #

    Others here have “attacked the central point to [your] argument.” Scientist does so the most recently. It’s not a double standard. Woodward and Bernstein were not police officers, nor were they pretending to be, nor were they part of a posse working a case.

    The MSM was not silent. They covered the story, and now the story is dead, because 1) the posse’s not doing much of anything, at least publicly, and 2) they have real stories to cover, and only so much time to cover the ridiculous.

    They are MIA because it is not red meat. It is months and years old stale bread from the garbage truck, that someone is trying to sell as fresh baked apple turnovers.

    It’s sad that most people are too smart for this nonsense, but what can you do, we have to stay competitive against other countries in the world. One of the unintended consequences is just simply that people are too smart and have better things to do than spend time on lies and foolishness.

    Al Halbert: The facts remain, whether it was the Post or Times, you have not attacked the central point to my argument, on the double standard and why the MSM refuses to investigate this matter from either the factual basis that Wooward & Bernstein profited or not.Furthermore the silence of the MSM on the issue pro or con speaks volume; this should be RED MEAT for them, why are they MIA?

  198. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 4:24 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Only the mainstream media has seen the paper document that Zullo said never existed. So there’s nothing more to investigate.

    CNN did a two-part investigation in Hawaii and busted a number of birther claims.

    The problem with birthers is that they have selective memory involving their past failures.

    So if that is the CASE, it should be easy to prove that Mike Zullo and company are lying, why are they refusing to follow-up on this oh so easy case to PROVE? And seek indictment for malfeasance of office and persecution under color of law for Arpio and Zullo?

  199. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 4:26 pm #

    That’s a good point. The original question about a private investigator’s license was raised by a journalist. Anyway, it’s something to think about.

    Scientist: That gets into a tricky area. Reporters investigate people and get paid, but I doubt you or anyone else thinks they should have to get a license to do so. The problem with Zullo in my mind is not that he pretended to do an investigation and then wrote a book. Anyone is free to do that.

  200. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 4:31 pm #

    Al Halbert: the silence of the MSM on the issue pro or con speaks volume

    I would compare it to the silence of the MSM on the issues of Cheney using energy rays to bring down the WTC and secret Nazi bases in the Antarctic.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Only the mainstream media has seen the paper document that Zullo said never existed.

    This confused me for a moment, until I realized it should be parsed as “The problem with what you are saying is: the mainstream media has actually seen the paper document…”

    My first interpretation was: “It is only the mainstream media that has seen the paper document” — and I’m pretty sure WND’s own Les Kinsolving was at the April 2011 presser.

  201. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 4:34 pm #

    Just as no one has actually cited an Arizona statute that Obama is alleged to have violated, neither have you cited an Arizona statute that Zullo has violated for making a sham investigation.

    The problem with your self-evident style of law is that Zullo has no “office”, made no “prosecution”, and in fact accused no individual of any crime. He’s just a birther volunteering for an Arizona non-profit educational organization sponsored by the Sheriff’s Dept.

    No one can say for sure that Zullo is lying. For that, one would have to show that he doesn’t believe what he says. People who deny the moon landing aren’t lying; they are just incompetent interpreters of the evidence. After all Zullo didn’t develop much of the investigation’s core results; he got that from birthers Zebest and Corsi; maybe he believed them.

    Al Halbert: So if that is the CASE, it should be easy to prove that Mike Zullo and company are lying, why are they refusing to follow-up on this oh so easy case to PROVE? And seek indictment for malfeasance of office and persecution under color of law for Arpio and Zullo?

  202. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    It would be nice to know if that were true, and whether there is anything to the sometimes-repeated story that he saw the actual certified copy.

    justlw: and I’m pretty sure WND’s own Les Kinsolving was at the April 2011 presser.

  203. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 4:40 pm #

    Because they already have. The MSM, that is. Been there, done that. They’re far from perfect, but they try sometimes to live up to their profession’s name: news. Not olds. Not old stuff we already covered.

    As for proof, and indictments and such, they are reporters, not lawyers, not police, not attorneys general. Their job is to publish news, not arrest people.

    Al Halbert: So if that is the CASE, it should be easy to prove that Mike Zullo and company are lying, why are they refusing to follow-up on this oh so easy case to PROVE?And seek indictment for malfeasance of office and persecution under color of law for Arpio and Zullo?

  204. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    Al Halbert: So if that is the CASE, it should be easy to prove that Mike Zullo and company are lying,

    I am not sure if lying is the right term but yes I found it relatively simple to disprove many of their findings.

    Of course, since they never made any real accusations, how could they be lying…

    You do realize that the ‘investigation’ is just a farce?…

    No charges will ever be filed…

  205. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    To add to what Dr. C just said.

  206. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    Clearly, a comma was needed.

    justlw: This confused me for a moment

  207. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 4:46 pm #

    Is this a real statute or a self-evident statute?

    Al Halbert: White House dot gov is a Government Website, someone is responsible for the content or they are not? The law is clear on this matter, that an assertion was given on the posting of this data (Obama’s LFBC). Therefore it must be verifiable, if it is not then it is misleading and a crime under under current federal law.

  208. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 4:47 pm #

    Doctor Conspiracy;

    Color of Law violations deny a citizen of their Civil Rights;

    “False arrest and fabrication of evidence: The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right against unreasonable searches or seizures. A law enforcement official using authority provided under the color of law is allowed to stop individuals and, under certain circumstances, to search them and retain their property. It is in the abuse of that discretionary power—such as an unlawful detention or illegal confiscation of property—that a violation of a person’s civil rights may occur.

    Fabricating evidence against or falsely arresting an individual also violates the color of law statute, taking away the person’s rights of due process and unreasonable seizure. In the case of deprivation of property, the color of law statute would be violated by unlawfully obtaining or maintaining a person’s property, which oversteps or misapplies the official’s authority.

    The Fourteenth Amendment secures the right to due process; the Eighth Amendment prohibits the use of cruel and unusual punishment. During an arrest or detention, these rights can be violated by the use of force amounting to punishment (summary judgment). The person accused of a crime must be allowed the opportunity to have a trial and should not be subjected to punishment without having been afforded the opportunity of the legal process.”

    Link to FBI website;
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law

    The MSM should be salivating and demand that Zullo, Arpio and Company be prosecuted, again RED MEAT for them.

  209. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 4:57 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Is this a real statute or a self-evident statute?

    Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States. Your lie does not even have to be made directly to an employee of the national government as long as it is “within the jurisdiction” of the ever expanding federal bureaucracy. Though the falsehood must be “material” this requirement is met if the statement has the “natural tendency to influence or [is] capable of influencing, the decision of the decision making body to which it is addressed.” United States v. Gaudin , 515 U.S. 506, 510 (1995). (In other words, it is not necessary to show that your particular lie ever really influenced anyone.) Although you must know that your statement is false at the time you make it in order to be guilty of this crime, you do not have to know that lying to the government is a crime or even that the matter you are lying about is “within the jurisdiction” of a government agency. United States v. Yermian , 468 U.S. 63, 69 (1984). For example, if you lie to your employer on your time and attendance records and, unbeknownst to you, he submits your records, along with those of other employees, to the federal government pursuant to some regulatory duty, you could be criminally liable.

    Link;
    http://library.findlaw.com/2004/May/11/147945.html

  210. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 4:59 pm #

    I looked at your description of a civil right’s violation. It does not apply in this case because it is given within the context of the right against unreasonable searches or seizures. No one was searched and nothing was seized in the investigation. There was no denial of due process. The violation does not apply.

    Even if it did apply, it doesn’t apply to Zullo because is is not a “law enforcement official” and it doesn’t apply to Sheriff Arpaio because he didn’t develop any evidence and in fact he want out of his way to say multiple times that he wasn’t accusing Obama of anything.

    The sleazy press conference consisted of innuendo, not accusations. The only thing violated was the birth certificate, and paper doesn’t have civil rights.

    Whose and which “civil right” do you think was violated? And again, what statute do you think Zullo and Arpaio violated?

    Al Halbert: Color of Law violations deny a citizen of their Civil Rights;

    The MSM should be salivating and demand that Zullo, Arpio and Company be prosecuted, again RED MEAT for them.

  211. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 5:03 pm #

    Al Halbert: it must be verifiable

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

  212. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 5:05 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It would be nice to know if that were true, and whether there is anything to the sometimes-repeated story that he saw the actual certified copy.

    I looked in the WND archives for Kinsolving’s columns.

    It’s interesting that it took him a week before he wrote anything about the LFBC, and in that column he seemed to be satisfied it was the real deal. It would also appear that he has not written anything birther-related since then.

  213. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 5:06 pm #

    So here you have a really good reason why Sheriff Arpaio kept saying he wasn’t accusing the President of anything, and why he let the unofficial types say stuff, not as criminal evidence, but as a report by non-law officers. Thus, the use of a posse, which can look like it is official law enforcement, but isn’t, and which in any case didn’t make an arrest, accuse the President or anyone specific. All they said is the birth certificate online is a forgery according to such and such analysis, and then they said someone should do something about it.

    The proper response to such nonsense is ridicule or ignoring it. If the MSM cared they could push more for a deeper investigation of Arapio (more than already happening) to see if he could be charged with abuse of power, but really, again, they simply have better things to do.

    Why don’t you sue the Sheriff and Zullo? Then it would be a story. Someone might print it. Birther sues birther; no one else left to sue.

    Al Halbert:

    Color of Law violations deny a citizen of their Civil Rights;

    “False arrest and fabrication of evidence: The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right against unreasonable searches or seizures. A law enforcement official using authority provided under the color of law is allowed to stop individuals and, under certain circumstances, to search them and retain their property. It is in the abuse of that discretionary power—such as an unlawful detention or illegal confiscation of property—that a violation of a person’s civil rights may occur.

    Fabricating evidence against or falsely arresting an individual also violates the color of law statute, taking away the person’s rights of due process and unreasonable seizure. In the case of deprivation of property, the color of law statute would be violated by unlawfully obtaining or maintaining a person’s property, which oversteps or misapplies the official’s authority.

    The Fourteenth Amendment secures the right to due process; the Eighth Amendment prohibits the use of cruel and unusual punishment. During an arrest or detention, these rights can be violated by the use of force amounting to punishment (summary judgment). The person accused of a crime must be allowed the opportunity to have a trial and should not be subjected to punishment without having been afforded the opportunity of the legal process.”

    Link to FBI website;
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law

    The MSM should be salivating and demand that Zullo, Arpio and Company be prosecuted, again RED MEAT for them.

  214. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

    I guess that if birthers could read critically, they wouldn’t be birthers.

    This statute refers to anyone lying TO THE GOVERNMENT in the context of influencing government operation, not the government lying to the people.

    Indeed the government lies to the people all the time and has done so for as long as I can remember.

    But even if the statute said what you imagine it does, there is no requirement for anyone to verify anything, and certainly not verify it TO YOU, and of course since the White House has the birth certificate (and we know this from the press seeing it), it is already verified as existing.

    Al Halbert: Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to:

  215. avatar
    justlw March 16, 2012 at 5:12 pm #

    I thought this question from the April event might be from Kinsolving, but since Jay Carney and Ed Henry got into it about a birther question just the day before, it could have been Henry. A shame they don’t list the press attendees.

    Q Bob, can you explain why President Obama let this drag on for four years? Was it Donald Trump that prompted you to issue this?

    MR. [Bob] BAUER: I’ll let Dan —

    MR. [Dan] PFEIFFER: Sure.

    Q I know you expected that question, right? (Laughter.)

    MR. PFEIFFER: He even said you would be the one who would ask it. (Laughter.)

  216. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 16, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    Al Halbert:

    You said:”White House dot gov is a Government Website, someone is responsible for the content or they are not? The law is clear on this matter, that an assertion was given on the posting of this data (Obama’s LFBC). Therefore it must be verifiable, if it is not then it is misleading and a crime under under current federal law.”

    Once again, if the underlying information is the same, what SPECIFIC law has been violated??? Do you think there is some kind of “Artistic Integrity Statute” that applies??? What if Obama had cut and pasted a great big Happy Face on the image along with “ITYS Donald Trump!!!” and a “Middle Finger” with a caption that said “FU-Jerome Corsi!!!”

    Would he have broken any laws???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  217. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 5:28 pm #

    I really find this urge to prosecute everyone to be quite reprehensible, given that the US has more people currently incarcerated than any nation on Earth. Either Americans are the most eviil people in the histroy of the world or the laws are very screwed up. To be clear, there are real NO crimes here:

    Scanning a document under optimized settings so it is legible- not a crime
    Even making a phony birth certificate for misha’s cat and posting it-not a crime
    Making a phony Kenyan b.c. in Obama’s name-not a crime (though selling it as real might be)
    Serving as President with a father who wasn’t a citizen-not a crime, no matter what Vattel said
    Doing a worthless investigation-not a crime
    A Sheriff making a fool of himself-not a crime
    Writing a worthless book-not a crime

    The country would be better served by not criminalizing matters of disagreement.

  218. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 5:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I looked at your description of a civil right’s violation. It does not apply in this case because it is given within the context of the right against unreasonable searches or seizures. No one was searched and nothing was seized in the investigation. There was no denial of due process. The violation does not apply.

    Even if it did apply, it doesn’t apply to Zullo because is is not a “law enforcement official” and it doesn’t apply to Sheriff Arpaio because he didn’t develop any evidence and in fact he want out of his way to say multiple times that he wasn’t accusing Obama of anything.

    The sleazy press conference consisted of innuendo, not accusations. The only thing violated was the birth certificate, and paper doesn’t have civil rights.

    Whose and which “civil right” do you think was violated? And again, what statute do you think Zullo and Arpaio violated?

    Then you have a problem with the Queens English, which is clearly shown in the text and link I provided, this is rather disingenuous of you to make such an assertion, a simple text search of this page will reveal that I included this portion. “Fabricating evidence against”

    “Fabricating evidence against”, which is the basis of your argument that the contrived evidence by the CCP is just that FABRICATED, which denies someone, in this CASE Obama of their Civil Rights by misuse of their official law enforcement office.

    In legal parlance “Color Of Law”. This statute was used to great effect during the 1960’s to bring many members of the KKK to justice for the maltreatment of African Americans in the south for crimes against their person, perpetrated by local law enforcement which denied their God given Civil Rights.

    Arizona Statute regarding Posse’s as Law Enforcement Personnel;
    ARS 11-441(D) is to call upon the members of volunteer posse and reserve organizations located in the county. This appears to be a call to an organization, not upon individual citizens. Interestingly under Paragraph H, these persons may be permitted to carry firearms.

    So they are in fact Duly Authorized Law Enforcement Personnel under Arizona State Law and subject to violation of a Citizens Civil Rights if they misuse their OFFICE, regardless of your protestations! Again RED MEAT for the Media and the MSM, though they remain silent, WHY?

  219. avatar
    Rickey March 16, 2012 at 5:38 pm #

    It has been revealed the the Cold Case Posse is a non-profit which has been registered with the IRS as an “educational institution.” That doesn’t sound like an authentic law enforcement organization to me.

    http://turningthescale.net/?p=688

    As Doc has pointed out, Arpaio’s press conference was carefully worded to avoid any accusation that a specific individual has committed a crime. No one will sue Zullo and Arpaio because they did not say anything which is actionable.

    Al Halbert is blowing smoke again.

  220. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter:
    Al Halbert:

    You said:”White House dot gov is a Government Website, someone is responsible for the content or they are not? The law is clear on this matter, that an assertion was given on the posting of this data (Obama’s LFBC). Therefore it must be verifiable, if it is not then it is misleading and a crime under under current federal law.”

    Once again, if the underlying information is the same, what SPECIFIC law has been violated??? Do you think there is some kind of “Artistic Integrity Statute” that applies??? What if Obama had cut and pasted agreat big Happy Face on the image along with “ITYS Donald Trump!!!” and a “Middle Finger” with a caption that said“FU-Jerome Corsi!!!”

    Would he have broken any laws???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    The specific statute is shown below;

    Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States. Your lie does not even have to be made directly to an employee of the national government as long as it is “within the jurisdiction” of the ever expanding federal bureaucracy. Though the falsehood must be “material” this requirement is met if the statement has the “natural tendency to influence or [is] capable of influencing, the decision of the decision making body to which it is addressed.” United States v. Gaudin , 515 U.S. 506, 510 (1995). (In other words, it is not necessary to show that your particular lie ever really influenced anyone.) Although you must know that your statement is false at the time you make it in order to be guilty of this crime, you do not have to know that lying to the government is a crime or even that the matter you are lying about is “within the jurisdiction” of a government agency. United States v. Yermian , 468 U.S. 63, 69 (1984). For example, if you lie to your employer on your time and attendance records and, unbeknownst to you, he submits your records, along with those of other employees, to the federal government pursuant to some regulatory duty, you could be criminally liable.

    Link;
    http://library.findlaw.com/2004/May/11/147945.html

  221. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 16, 2012 at 5:48 pm #

    Rickey:
    It has been revealed the the Cold Case Posse is a non-profit which has been registered with the IRS as an “educational institution.” That doesn’t sound like an authentic law enforcement organization to me.

    http://turningthescale.net/?p=688

    As Doc has pointed out, Arpaio’s press conference was carefully worded to avoid any accusation that a specific individual has committed a crime. No one will sue Zullo and Arpaio because they did not say anything which is actionable.

    Al Halbert is blowing smoke again.

    Well, they let some of them carry guns, make arrests, etc. Handcuff people. They get specialized law enforcement training. I think they are LEO’s. I am looking for the oath they take.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter
    Squeeky Frommk

  222. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 6:10 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: Well, they let some of them carry guns, make arrests, etc. Handcuff people. They get specialized law enforcement training.I think they are LEO’s. I am looking for the oath they take.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter
    Squeeky Frommk

    The same as anyone to Protect and Defend the Constitution from all enemies Foreign and Domestic. I know this because I am an Oath Keeper.

    Believe what you will the CCP is a duly authorized law enforcement personnel under the aegis of the Sheriff of Maricopa County and the Laws of Arizona, you have stated this yourself and subject to prosecution by the DOJ for the violation of a Citizens Civil Rights under Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001.

    If you are so inclined to believe that our Government can do anything they wish then you deserve whatever comes your way by blindly following anyone, in this case Obama as the Constitution and the Rule of Law is no longer binding upon you in your mind.

    Just be thankful cooler heads and patriots are monitoring this all important issue for you, as you have given over to the Rule of Man and all the intended destruction to our liberty and freedom that this entails.

    On a personal note I find it incredulous that you can deny the Federal Statute that I cite, it is frankly wishful thinking on your part and not based in fact, all I can say it is foolish to put such faith in anyone and not the Rule of Law, which should be impartial to all before the bar of justice.

    The Rule of Man is subject to the whim of the Monarch, and just that with no guarantees of any treatment of than what the Monarch allows at the time. As legal precedence is out the window since it is not the RULE of LAW!

  223. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 6:21 pm #

    Al Halbert: The same as anyone to Protect and Defend the Constitution from all enemies Foreign and Domestic.I know this because I am an Oath Keeper.

    Believe what you will the CCP is a duly authorized law enforcement personnel under the aegis of the Sheriff of Maricopa County and the Laws of Arizona, you have stated this yourself and subject to prosecution by the DOJ for the violation of a Citizens Civil Rights under Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001.

    If you are so inclined to believe that our Government can do anything they wish then you deserve whatever comes your way by blindly following anyone, in this case Obama as the Constitution and the Rule of Law is no longer binding upon you in your mind.

    Just be thankful cooler heads and patriots are monitoring this all important issue for you, as you have given over to the Rule of Man and all the intended destruction to our liberty and freedom that this entails.

    On a personal note I find it incredulous that you can deny the Federal Statute that I cite, it is frankly wishful thinking on your part and not based in fact, all I can say it is foolish to put such faith in anyone and not the Rule of Law, which should be impartial to all before the bar of justice.

    The Rule of Man is subject to the whim of the Monarch, and just that with no guarantees of any treatment of than what the Monarch allows at the time.As legal precedence is out the window since it is not the RULE of LAW!

    Sqeaky Fromm, Girl Reporter;

    I misspoke it is a violation under Title 42, U.S.C., Section 14141, Color of Law. The Statute I cited was for the misrepresentation of information to decide anyone about the veracity of information cited to any branch of our government to mislead or misrepresent the facts of any information.

  224. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 6:36 pm #

    Rickey:
    It has been revealed the the Cold Case Posse is a non-profit which has been registered with the IRS as an “educational institution.” That doesn’t sound like an authentic law enforcement organization to me.

    http://turningthescale.net/?p=688

    As Doc has pointed out, Arpaio’s press conference was carefully worded to avoid any accusation that a specific individual has committed a crime. No one will sue Zullo and Arpaio because they did not say anything which is actionable.

    Al Halbert is blowing smoke again.

    Get your FACTS straight;

    Arizona Statute regarding Posse’s as Law Enforcement Personnel;
    ARS 11-441(D) is to call upon the members of volunteer posse and reserve organizations located in the county. This appears to be a call to an organization, not upon individual citizens. Interestingly under Paragraph H, these persons may be permitted to carry firearms.

    http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/11/00441.htm&Title=11&DocType=ARS

  225. avatar
    J. Potter March 16, 2012 at 7:23 pm #

    Al Halbert: The facts remain, whether it was the Post or Times, you have not attacked the central point to my argument, on the double standard and why the MSM refuses to investigate this matter from either the factual basis that Wooward & Bernstein profited or not.Furthermore the silence of the MSM on the issue pro or con speaks volume; this should be RED MEAT for them, why are they MIA?

    Heehee, I made the comment on the chance you were confusing or conflating The Post with The Times (thanks for stepping right into that one), and to call out your attempt to draw parallels between Woodward & Bernstein & Watergate and Arpaio & Zullo (& Corsi & Zebest & Vogt …. ) & Birtherism. By alleging a double-standard, you’re saying they are similar and deserving of identical treatment. Perhaps you could list aspects of the two you see as being parallels? I can think of a few, incidental parallels. For instance, they both concern a President.

    I assert they are near-perfect mirror opposites. Inverse, not parallel. One is rational and just, the other is bizarro and obscene.

    Why not come see W&B here in 10 days and ask them in person? Provided I get to catch it on tape?
    ________________

    I don’t understand what is red meat for the “MSM”? Particularly when even the wingersphere has discarded it as rotten? If sources biased in a topic’s favor are taking a pass, why would supposedly objective sources bite?

    And what exactly do you believe The Times reported? Got a link, Al? There is this story from 3/1/12 by Stephen Dinan… http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/1/sheriff-arpaio-obama-birth-certificate-forgery/?page=all … it’s just as vapid as Arpaio’s press conference! Neither actually says anything. Non-committal pandering.

    But no, that’s not your source, you’re trusting this spin from ORYR:
    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/03/washington-times-forgerygate-ignoring.html
    Why do I call it spin? Because they put words in Dinan’s mouth!

    Why don’t you read Dinan’s story, rather than believe a secondhand review?

    By the way, Dinan wrote 1-piece on the event, on the day of the event. There has been no follow-up. See Doc’s list for dozens of publications that also ran a story on the day off. After you read Dinan’s article for yourself, please tell me what’s different about the coverage by The Times and, well … every other publication in the country? Other than the fact that ORYR assured you that The Times was the only publication “covering” it?

    And then, getting back to my original question, why would The Times be singled out? Why would ORYR be aware of The Times article, yet fail to mention hundreds of similar others?

  226. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 7:47 pm #

    Scientist: The country would be better served by not criminalizing matters of disagreement.

    You never got into it with the Mea Shearim.

  227. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 9:40 pm #

    Again, no one at the Cold Case Posse or Sheriff Arpaio said that they were accusing Obama of anything wrong. I don’t know if “fabricating evidence” is the right phrase because they didn’t fabricate evidence; they misinterpreted and misrepresented evidence, but since it wasn’t against anyone, the principle doesn’t apply.

    The fact that you seem stuck on the idea that the Cold Case Posse said that there was probably cause that Obama committed a crime is proof to me that they intended people to believe that such was the conclusion based in the insinuations and tone of the presentation, when in fact they said the opposite.

    That means you were doubly fooled, first by not understanding part what they said, and second believing that they had demonstrated forgery in a rigorous way.

    Al Halbert: “Fabricating evidence against”, which is the basis of your argument that the contrived evidence by the CCP is just that FABRICATED, which denies someone, in this CASE Obama of their Civil Rights by misuse of their official law enforcement office.

  228. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 10:06 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Again, no one at the Cold Case Posse or Sheriff Arpaio said that they were accusing Obama of anything wrong. I don’t know if “fabricating evidence” is the right phrase because they didn’t fabricate evidence; they misinterpreted and misrepresented evidence, but since it wasn’t against anyone, the principle doesn’t apply.

    The fact that you seem stuck on the idea that the Cold Case Posse said that there was probably cause that Obama committed a crime is proof to me that they intended people to believe that such was the conclusion based in the insinuations and tone of the presentation, when in fact they said the opposite.

    That means you were doubly fooled, first by not understanding part what they said, and second believing that they had demonstrated forgery in a rigorous way.

    Wrong, they stated they believed they had probable CAUSE for Forgery and Fraud and that they identified a person of interest. My point was if they had created this evidence from thin air (unlikely as Obama caused the LFBC to reside on White house.gov not Arpio) then someone is either guilty of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 for placing false information on a government website.

    OR;

    If Arpio or Zullo concocted evidence as you have said all along then they are guilty of Title 42, U.S.C., Section 14141, Color of Law, misuse of a Law Enforcement authority under “color of law” a criminal civil rights violation by officers of Maricopa County Sheriffs Office. Either way a violation of Federal law has occurred, so why isn’t the MSM and Media going after Arpio tooth and nail, instead of ignoring it?

    Again this is RED Meat and somebody has committed a felony, and all you and the media can do is sweep it under a very lumpy rug as there is not anymore room under the Obama bus for anymore bodies!

    You live or die by your own statements;

    “I don’t know if “fabricating evidence” is the right phrase because they didn’t fabricate evidence; they misinterpreted and misrepresented evidence, but since it wasn’t against anyone, the principle doesn’t apply.”

    AND;

    “Zullo, on the other hand is an amateur, answerable to no one of any competence, investigated other birthers and published a pile of lying crap.”

    Which is it?

    Back pedal or definitive statements regarding misuse of Office under “color of law” statutes?

  229. avatar
    misha March 16, 2012 at 10:22 pm #

    Al Halbert: I know this because I am an Oath Keeper.

    Oath Keepers and the Age of Treason – http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers

    “Founded last April by Yale-educated lawyer and ex-Ron Paul aide Stewart Rhodes, the group has established itself as a hub in the sprawling anti-Obama movement that includes Tea Partiers, Birthers, and 912ers.

    There are scores of patriot groups, but what makes Oath Keepers unique is that its core membership consists of men and women in uniform, including soldiers, police, and veterans. At regular ceremonies in every state, members reaffirm their official oaths of service, pledging to protect the Constitution—but then they go a step further, vowing to disobey “unconstitutional” orders from what they view as an increasingly tyrannical government.

    In Pray’s estimate, it might not be long (months, perhaps a year) before President Obama finds some pretext—a pandemic, a natural disaster, a terror attack—to impose martial law, ban interstate travel, and begin detaining citizens en masse.

    When it does, Pray and his buddies plan to go AWOL and make their way to their “fortified bunker”—the home of one comrade’s parents in rural Idaho—where they’ve stocked survival gear, generators, food, and weapons. If it becomes necessary, they say, they will turn those guns against their fellow soldiers.

    Now Pray is both a Birther and a Truther. He believes he is following an illegitimate, foreign-born president in a war on terror launched by a government plot—9/11. He admires soldiers like Army reservist Major Stefan Frederick Cook, who volunteered for a deployment last May and then sued to avoid it—claiming that Obama is not a natural-born citizen and is thus unfit for command.

    Rhodes, 44, is a constitutional lawyer – He’s a libertarian, staunch constitutionalist, and devout Christian.

    RHODES’ TIMING WAS impeccable. Twelve days earlier, the Department of Homeland Security had issued a report warning that a black president, weak economy, and high unemployment rate had created a “fertile recruiting environment” for right-wing extremists—”disgruntled” vets from Iraq and Afghanistan, the report noted, could bring combat know-how to domestic terrorist groups.

    All this attention has put Oath Keepers on the radar of anti-hate groups. Last year, the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center both name-checked the group in their reports on rising anti-government extremism.

    At lunch, when I questioned my tablemates about the Obama-Hitler comparisons I’d heard at the conference, I got a step-by-step tutorial on how the president’s socialized medicine agenda would beget a Nazi-style regime.

    I was introduced to the notion that the founding fathers modeled their governing documents on the Bible, and debated whether being Muslim meant an inability to believe in and abide by—and thus be protected by—the Constitution.

    Mack runs the “No Sheriff Left Behind” campaign encouraging state and local authorities to disregard federal laws that they believe violate states’ rights. During the 1990s, he successfully eviscerated a Brady Law provision requiring sheriffs to run background checks on handgun purchasers. Another sheriff who spoke, Mark Gower of Iron County, Utah, uses Mack’s precedent to refuse to act against property owners who violate the Endangered Species Act.

    There may also be serious downsides for a soldier who follows through on his Oath Keepers pledge. Disobeying orders can mean discharge or imprisonment.

    Dyer, who with Rhodes’ blessing represented Oath Keepers at an Oklahoma Tea Party rally on July 4, was charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice with uttering “disloyal” statements. He ultimately beat the charge, left the Marines, and reappeared unmasked on YouTube encouraging viewers to join him at his makeshift training area in Duncan, Oklahoma—”I’m sure the DHS will call it a terrorist training camp.” In January, Dyer was arrested on charges of raping a seven-year-old girl. When sheriff’s deputies raided his home, they found a Colt M-203 grenade launcher believed to have been stolen from a California military base.

  230. avatar
    Majority Will March 16, 2012 at 10:29 pm #

    Al Halbert: I know this because I am an Oath Keeper.

    Yikes.

  231. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter March 16, 2012 at 10:30 pm #

    Al Halbert:

    I looked up the statute you cited. It may be found at the FBI Website here:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law

    However, the only people I can find who might be guilty of breaking it, is the Cold Case Posse and Sheriff Joe. To wit:

    Fabricating evidence against or falsely arresting an individual also violates the color of law statute, taking away the person’s rights of due process and unreasonable seizure. In the case of deprivation of property, the color of law statute would be violated by unlawfully obtaining or maintaining a person’s property, which oversteps or misapplies the official’s authority.

    I am not see anything which would make the online posting of Birth Certificates fit into this. Is there perhaps a French statute that you are thinking of???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  232. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 10:39 pm #

    Phil Berg’s complaint in Pennsylvania was dismissed…

    Poor Phil, no respect from the courts…

    The court, in a two-page order, said ballot challenges can be based on the authenticity of signatures on nominating petitions, the affidavits of the people who circulated those petitions or the affidavits filed by candidates about their financial interests.

    “The sole basis for the objection is [Berg's] contention that President Obama is not a natural born citizen’ eligible for the Office of President of the United States under the United States Constitution,” the ruling said, adding that Commonwealth Court does not have the jurisdiction to rule on Berg’s claims about Obama’s citizenship.

  233. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 10:40 pm #

    I thought my spidey-sense detected an Oathkeeper!

    To reverse-paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen: Sir, I grew up with an Oathkeeper, I know an Oathkeeper, an Oathkeeper is a brother of mine, and you sir, are indeed an Oathkeeper.

    Please start by protecting us from yourself.

    Al Halbert: The same as anyone to Protect and Defend the Constitution from all enemies Foreign and Domestic. I know this because I am an Oath Keeper.

  234. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 10:40 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I am not see anything which would make the online posting of Birth Certificates fit into this. Is there perhaps a French statute that you are thinking of???

    ROTFL.. Such a way with words you have my dear…

  235. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 16, 2012 at 10:43 pm #

    Whoa, Misha… I had heard of the Oath Keepers, but never knew they were such virulently anti-American lawless traitors. I pity their children. Once they are old enough to have real respect for their country, the Constitution, and the rule of law, they are doomed to hang their heads in shame that their own parents so plainly hated America. They are plainly criminals and perverts, although they may deserve some sympathy due to their severe mental defects.

    It would be a shame if they eventually do challenge the vast majority of our loyal men and women in uniform, disgracing their families and making orphans of their kids, based on nothing but their bizarre delusions. One can only pray the soldiers defending America from these pathetic, misguided terrorists suffer no harm.

  236. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 10:43 pm #

    Al Halbert: The same as anyone to Protect and Defend the Constitution from all enemies Foreign and Domestic. I know this because I am an Oath Keeper.

    Explains a lot… Are they not the ones hiding behind their interpretation of the Constitution? Don’t they have anything more important to do?

  237. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 10:46 pm #

    Both.

    I am not a lawyer, but I what I would call “evidence” in the cold case posse report is the President’s birth certificate and the selective service card. That’s not something that was a product of their investigation, but things from public sources. Zullo did not fabricate the birth certificate, and he didn’t fabricate the selective service card. I don’t call their argument and interpretation evidence because they are not experts. A competent expert could testify as to the norms for procedures in testing for fake documents and that would be evidence, but Zullo is not an expert and his opinion is not evidence.

    What the posse report talks about was a process of analysis that they did and and false conclusions about that analysis. I don’t have reason to doubt that the “experiments” they made didn’t happen the way they said that they did, but they either lied or spoke incompetently about the significance of those experiments. Whatever you call whatever they did, it was crap.

    You continue to allege a civil rights violation, but one can’t violate the civil rights of a hypothetical person.. That can’t happen until a particular person suffers from the violation. Should Arpaio ever name his “person of interest” then perhaps that person has a civil rights claim, and certainly a libel claim, but I doubt that the cold case posse will never name the person.

    Al Halbert: You live or die by your own statements;

    “I don’t know if “fabricating evidence” is the right phrase because they didn’t fabricate evidence; they misinterpreted and misrepresented evidence, but since it wasn’t against anyone, the principle doesn’t apply.”

    AND;

    “Zullo, on the other hand is an amateur, answerable to no one of any competence, investigated other birthers and published a pile of lying crap.”

    Which is it?

  238. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 10:47 pm #

    misha: Oath Keepers and the Age of Treason – http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers

    “Founded last April by Yale-educated lawyer and ex-Ron Paul aide Stewart Rhodes, the group has established itself as a hub in the sprawling anti-Obama movement that includes Tea Partiers, Birthers, and 912ers.

    There are scores of patriot groups, but what makes Oath Keepers unique is that its core membership consists of men and women in uniform, including soldiers, police, and veterans. At regular ceremonies in every state, members reaffirm their official oaths of service, pledging to protect the Constitution—but then they go a step further, vowing to disobey “unconstitutional” orders from what they view as an increasingly tyrannical government.

    In Pray’s estimate, it might not be long (months, perhaps a year) before President Obama finds some pretext—a pandemic, a natural disaster, a terror attack—to impose martial law, ban interstate travel, and begin detaining citizens en masse.

    When it does, Pray and his buddies plan to go AWOL and make their way to their “fortified bunker”—the home of one comrade’s parents in rural Idaho—where they’ve stocked survival gear, generators, food, and weapons. If it becomes necessary, they say, they will turn those guns against their fellow soldiers.

    Now Pray is both a Birther and a Truther. He believes he is following an illegitimate, foreign-born president in a war on terror launched by a government plot—9/11. He admires soldiers like Army reservist Major Stefan Frederick Cook, who volunteered for a deployment last May and then sued to avoid it—claiming that Obama is not a natural-born citizen and is thus unfit for command.

    Rhodes, 44, is a constitutional lawyer – He’s a libertarian, staunch constitutionalist, and devout Christian.

    RHODES’ TIMING WAS impeccable. Twelve days earlier, the Department of Homeland Security had issued a report warning that a black president, weak economy, and high unemployment rate had created a “fertile recruiting environment” for right-wing extremists—”disgruntled” vets from Iraq and Afghanistan, the report noted, could bring combat know-how to domestic terrorist groups.

    All this attention has put Oath Keepers on the radar of anti-hate groups. Last year, the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center both name-checked the group in their reports on rising anti-government extremism.

    At lunch, when I questioned my tablemates about the Obama-Hitler comparisons I’d heard at the conference, I got a step-by-step tutorial on how the president’s socialized medicine agenda would beget a Nazi-style regime.

    I was introduced to the notion that the founding fathers modeled their governing documents on the Bible, and debated whether being Muslim meant an inability to believe in and abide by—and thus be protected by—the Constitution.

    Mack runs the “No Sheriff Left Behind” campaign encouraging state and local authorities to disregard federal laws that they believe violate states’ rights. During the 1990s, he successfully eviscerated a Brady Law provision requiring sheriffs to run background checks on handgun purchasers. Another sheriff who spoke, Mark Gower of Iron County, Utah, uses Mack’s precedent to refuse to act against property owners who violate the Endangered Species Act.

    There may also be serious downsides for a soldier who follows through on his Oath Keepers pledge. Disobeying orders can mean discharge or imprisonment.

    Dyer, who with Rhodes’ blessing represented Oath Keepers at an Oklahoma Tea Party rally on July 4, was charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice with uttering “disloyal” statements. He ultimately beat the charge, left the Marines, and reappeared unmasked on YouTube encouraging viewers to join him at his makeshift training area in Duncan, Oklahoma—”I’m sure the DHS will call it a terrorist training camp.” In January, Dyer was arrested on charges of raping a seven-year-old girl. When sheriff’s deputies raided his home, they found a Colt M-203 grenade launcher believed to have been stolen from a California military base.

    While some would believe theses statements “misha: has made this is the Official List of Orders Oath Keepers feel would be unconstitutional;

    List of refused orders

    The Oath Keepers feel that their sworn oath to the American Constitution, grants them not only the right, but the duty to refuse unconstitutional orders. The Oath Keepers organization has published a list of orders that they claim they will not obey:

    1. Orders to disarm the American people.

    2. Orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people.

    3. Orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

    4. Orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

    5. Orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

    6. Any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

    7. Any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

    8. Orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”

    9. Any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

    10. Any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

    Constitutional basis

    The 10 points of the Oath Keepers Oath are based on fundamental language in the United States Constitution, including the 2nd Amendment, popularly known as the ‘right to bear arms’. They also have basis in upholding the 4th Amendment, which protects the people from warrantless searches and seizures of their property, the 6th Amendment, which protects people from detention or arrest of their person without a writ of habeas corpus (an arrest warrant), and the 10th Amendment, which provides for states rights and sovereignty.

    Not quite the hype that “misha” and her hysterics is it?

    Wikipedia link;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_Keepers

    Text of the Oath;

    I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.[1]

    Wikipedia link to Oath;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office

  239. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 10:52 pm #

    Both?

    This “lying crap” is just misdirection and sleight of hand. it doesn’t even rise to the level of evidence. A Georgia court already rejected this crap from being considered as evidence. The court didn’t even bother to determine whether or not it was “fabricated.” They just said you can’t even verify the expertise of those making this claim.

    This is not red meat. It’s white rabid foam.

    Al Halbert:

    “I don’t know if “fabricating evidence” is the right phrase because they didn’t fabricate evidence; they misinterpreted and misrepresented evidence, but since it wasn’t against anyone, the principle doesn’t apply.”

    AND;

    “Zullo, on the other hand is an amateur, answerable to no one of any competence, investigated other birthers and published a pile of lying crap.”

    Which is it?

  240. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2012 at 10:55 pm #

    Al Halbert: Just be thankful cooler heads and patriots are monitoring this all important issue for you, as you have given over to the Rule of Man and all the intended destruction to our liberty and freedom that this entails.

    The rule of man is all that matters to any civilized nation. Unless you are talking Sharia law ROTFL or the Christian equivalent I guess.

  241. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 11:03 pm #

    If you are in the military then you should know what an “illegal order” is, and that you shouldn’t follow one. You don’t need to take an extra oath to do what you’re already committed and required to do, and it’s patently silly to try to list ever conceivable illegal order that you are obligated not to obey.

    So why the oath?

    It is a way of insinuating that those in authority intend to do illegal things. This is why I consider the Oath Keepers to be a publicity stunt for some and an expression of irrational paranoia for the rest.

    However, perhaps you could expand your list of illegal orders to be more fair and balanced and add that you refuse to obey:

    1. Orders to murder liberals
    2. Orders to set fire to newspapers who support the administration
    3. Orders to harass Muslims in the peaceful exercise of their religion
    4. Orders to burn public schools, and harass public school teachers
    5. Orders to round up liberals, deprive them of sleep by playing Rush Limbaugh at high volume
    6. Orders to create fake Kenyan birther certificates for Barack Obama
    7. Orders to block women from access to medical facilities that provide contraceptive services
    8. Orders to disrupt Democratic election rallies and to beat up attendees
    9. Orders to overthrow the elected government of the United States

    you get my drift?

    Al Halbert: List of refused orders

  242. avatar
    Al Halbert March 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Both.

    I am not a lawyer, but I what I would call “evidence” in the cold case posse report is the President’s birth certificate and the selective service card. That’s not something that was a product of their investigation, but things from public sources. Zullo did not fabricate the birth certificate, and he didn’t fabricate the selective service card. I don’t call their argument and interpretation evidence because they are not experts. A competent expert could testify as to the norms for procedures in testing for fake documents and that would be evidence, but Zullo is not an expert and his opinion is not evidence.

    What the posse report talks about was a process of analysis that they did and and false conclusions about that analysis. I don’t have reason to doubt that the “experiments” they made didn’t happen the way they said that they did, but they either lied or spoke incompetently about the significance of those experiments. Whatever you call whatever they did, it was crap.

    You continue to allege a civil rights violation, but one can’t violate the civil rights of a hypothetical person.. That can’t happen until a particular person suffers from the violation. Should Arpaio ever name his “person of interest” then perhaps that person has a civil rights claim, and certainly a libel claim, but I doubt that the cold case posse will never name the person.

    Doc, they stated they had a person of interest, they believe this person which will be nameless until an indictment is made public. You know as well as I do, probable cause is all that is needed to be a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed and by whom. Again, why is our media not following this? As I said before a crime has been committed by someone, why is the media and you making excuses for inaction on this issue.

    These are serious charges, shouldn’t they be vigorously investigated to ascertain who and what someone has done to discredit Obama and his Office and Aides, much less if it is a Hoax by Arpio, this must be investigated as we were until Obama came along a Nation under the Rule of Law. Sadly as this episode demonstrates we are fast becoming a Nation that is ruled by the Rule of Man, this will not turn out well for us if this the case.

  243. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 11:11 pm #

    The thread got too long. I’m closing it and opening a new one.

  244. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2012 at 11:24 pm #

    I do not believe for one moment that any indictment will be brought. If there is an indictment, come back and crow as much as you want, but until then, that topic is done.

    The news media has already reported that the Cold Case Posse investigation was long-discredited stuff. They are done. If anyone else is investigating Arpaio, they aren’t turning it into a media circus like Arpaio did.

    Al Halbert:
    Doc, they stated they had a person of interest, they believe this person which will be nameless until an indictment is made public. You know as well as I do, probable cause is all that is needed to be a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed and by whom. Again, why is our media not following this? As I said before a crime has been committed by someone, why is the media and you making excuses for inaction on this issue.

    These are serious charges, shouldn’t they be vigorously investigated to ascertain who and what someone has done to discredit Obama and his Office and Aides, much less if it is a Hoax by Arpio, this must be investigated as we were until Obama came along a Nation under the Rule of Law. Sadly as this episode demonstrates we are fast becoming a Nation that is ruled by the Rule of Man, this will not turn out well for us if this the case.