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What the heck is a PIKA stamp anyway?

I am a sometimes collector of postage stamps, and I must admit that I had never heard of a USPS “PIKA” stamp, as described by Jerome Corsi and Mike Zullo in their book A Question of Eligibility. In fact, the only USPS PIKA stamp I know of is this one:

US postage stamp showing small rodent called a pika

Then I realized the problem (palm meets forehead). They weren’t talking about a PIKA stamp, they were taking about a PICA stamp. This simple mistake is all the more remarkable in the light of what the book writes about this part of the investigation:

Sheriff Arpaio’s investigators located and interviewed several 1980s-era U.S.P.S. former-employees who provided affidavits attesting that it was standard U.S.P.S. procedure to utilize a four-digit date stamp.

Of course you might think that this is just a typo (made 8 times), and really doesn’t affect the investigation. But you would be very wrong!

The following is not in the Corsi/Zullo book, but it was said at the Maricopa County press conference (Mike Zullo speaking):

This piece of evidence is extremely disturbing, given the fact that there was no logical reason in 1980 for any post office employee to cut a PIKA date stamp. It is one solid piece of rubber1, it sits there for a year. In addition, the PIKA date stamp – the date. The stamp itself, the stamper, is no longer manufactured. It was manufactured until about 1980. However, the inserts are still manufactured. But you can’t go on the street and buy them. They come from postal supply houses. The only way we were able to get ‘em was under the venue of the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Offices.

The implication is that although the faker was somehow able to get an authentic date cancellation device for the Honolulu Post Office manufactured before 1970 (a remarkable feat, I must say), he could not get any date slug but a current one from  2008 to fit in it2. And having only “2008” to work with, the forger was forced to  invert the “08” into “80” and do without the all-important “19.” Now maybe the forger couldn’t get one of those 1980 PIKA slugs, but maybe he could get a PICA one.

And now my Obama Conspiracy Theories Debunker Posse arrives on the scene to begin its own investigation into the Cold Case Posse investigation (Hey, they’re not the only amateurs who can do investigations.) Now follow along closely. Here’s Exhibit F taken from Chapter 3 of Corsi’s book showing the date slugs not available publicly.

image

Exhibit F

Look carefully at the stamp box and its label (which by the way says PICA, not PIKA).

Here is the fatal error that the investigators made. While you cannot buy PIKA [sic] date slugs on the street, you can buy PICA ones [wait for it]

on

image

image

If you look closely, you’ll see that the year slugs are in descending date order starting with 2002, then 2001, and it is almost certain that under the label we’ll find 2000 and 1999. So there are ways of getting the “19” part of the stamp on the street.

In fact, rubber stamp numbers are so common, I found 3 sets in my desk drawer.

Pica stamp

Other sources for PICA date slugs:


1How do they know that a stamp manufactured before 1970 (when the USPO became the USPS) used a single piece of rubber for the 4-digit date, rather than a fixed “19” (which might have worn down over the decades) and a variable 2-digit year? They weren’t thinking about Y2K before 1970.

2If someone obtained a vintage cancelling device from 1970, wouldn’t it be reasonable to expect it to already have a “19xx” date slug in it?

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198 Responses to What the heck is a PIKA stamp anyway?

  1. avatar
    richCares March 8, 2012 at 12:56 am #

    This proves the posse was comprised of Grate detectives. (yes correct spelling)

  2. avatar
    Lupin March 8, 2012 at 2:06 am #

    Although I am far from an expert, one of the things I noticed when I came in contact with actual frauds, criminal frauds, (in my earlier career in international banking) was that, unlike the way it’s often depicted in books, with near flawless forgeries, etc., actual frauds — at least the ones I came in contact with — were very sloppy with a multitude of details that ought to have attracted attention, if people had been a little bit wary.

    During the post mortem examination of the paperwork, we found numerous items that ought to have been loud alarm signals — but went completely unnoticed, even by professionals.

    To me, what you say only proves that Corsi and Zullo are crooks.

  3. avatar
    y_p_w March 8, 2012 at 2:11 am #

    The way they describe it, the 80 looks to be kind of off in their example.

    Does anyone know what they looked like back in the 70s?

    The 80 looks just about right (the top loop is narrower than the bottom loop) while the “example” they describe of the “08” being turned into an “80” looks topheavy.

    It still looks to me as if they had some sort of two part insert for the year, and the “19” just fell out.

  4. avatar
    J. Potter March 8, 2012 at 2:22 am #

    THESE IDIOTS ARE SPELLING TECHNICAL TERMS PHONETICALLY???

    Wow.

    Elsewhere, I have seen birthers assuming this is a refernce to the typeface Pica, not the measurement / height of the lettering.

    We still use rubber stamps on aviation parts at work. Amazing how low-tech high-tech can be.

    Humorously, their is also a behavioral / biological meaning for “pica” …. which encompasses the consumption of fecal matter:

    Cornell Researcher Explores Eating Dirt
    http://cornellsun.com/node/48793

    Not to mention yet another crude “pica” … Píča!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%AD%C4%8Da

  5. avatar
    GLaB March 8, 2012 at 6:07 am #

    y_p_w: The way they describe it, the 80 looks to be kind of off in their example.Does anyone know what they looked like back in the 70s?The 80 looks just about right (the top loop is narrower than the bottom loop) while the “example” they describe of the “08‘ being turned into an “80‘ looks topheavy.It still looks to me as if they had some sort of two part insert for the year, and the “19‘ just fell out.

    Not only that, but the CorsiClownPosse stamp is clearly the wrong size. There is much more space between the lines and their 80 is well to the right of the center. They must think we’re all blind.

  6. avatar
    Scientist March 8, 2012 at 7:13 am #

    Pica is also a disease in which the patient eats dirt and other non-nutritive substances (like birther books).

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2012 at 8:28 am #

    I should note that I predicted that someone would find an example of a 1980 date stamp with the missing year within 48 hours. I asked one stamp dealer specifically about Honolulu stamps from 1980 (probably too restrictive). I seem to have misjudged the interest in finding one both in myself and others.

  8. avatar
    The Magic M March 8, 2012 at 10:41 am #

    J. Potter: THESE IDIOTS ARE SPELLING TECHNICAL TERMS PHONETICALLY???

    Wow.

    Well, considering one of their prime PDF experts (I think it was Vogt) didn’t know what “PDF” stands for, it comes as little surprise to me.

    “I’ve painted clay huts for 20 years, I’m an adobe illustrator. And an expert to boot.” – “Welcome to the posse.”
    “I got a lot of petty ‘F’s during my time in college, yo!” – “Welcome to the posse.”
    “I collect stamps, and stamped stamps, and a stamp with a stamped stamp on it.” – “Welcome to the posse.”
    “My name is Jerome Corsi.” – “Welcome to the posse, do you want to be the leader?”

  9. avatar
    JPotter March 8, 2012 at 10:51 am #

    Presidential Document Forgery … right?

  10. avatar
    neonzx March 8, 2012 at 10:57 am #

    Great findings, Doc! More evidence that the “posse” are a group of incompetent fools. If lead “investigator” Zullo was truly an investigator/detective in his former life, it’s not surprising he is no longer gainfully employed within that profession.

    The CCP is nothing more than a fake law enforcement puppet for the WingNutDaily smear merchants.

  11. avatar
    mbrown March 8, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    Is there some reason they would deliberately use the spelling PIKA and not PICA to avoid accountability ? The whole thing is a sham, from top to bottom, and they all know it, so I’m certain they did discuss and plan ways to avoid being snared in legal troubles WHEN their scam was examined and found to nothing but a fraud.
    IMO, it is necessary to force them to testify under oath about all of this.

  12. avatar
    Jim March 8, 2012 at 12:07 pm #

    mbrown:
    Is there some reason they would deliberately use the spelling PIKA and not PICA to avoid accountability ? The whole thing is a sham, from top to bottom, and they all know it, so I’m certain they did discuss and plan ways to avoid being snared in legal troubles WHEN their scam was examined and found to nothing but a fraud.
    IMO, it is necessary to force them to testify under oath about all of this.

    Legal troubles and the Sheriff are not strangers

    http://news.yahoo.com/actor-steven-seagal-ariz-sheriffs-office-sued-134329316.html

  13. avatar
    Horus March 8, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

    y_p_w: The 80 looks just about right (the top loop is narrower than the bottom loop) while the “example” they describe of the “08‘ being turned into an “80‘ looks topheavy.

    To me too.

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2012 at 1:08 pm #

    I found that deeply funny, especially the last sentence.

    Jim: Legal troubles and the Sheriff are not strangers

    http://news.yahoo.com/actor-steven-seagal-ariz-sheriffs-office-sued-134329316.html

  15. avatar
    Horus March 8, 2012 at 1:13 pm #

    mbrown: Is there some reason they would deliberately use the spelling PIKA and not PICA to avoid accountability ? The whole thing is a sham, from top to bottom, and they all know it, so I’m certain they did discuss and plan ways to avoid being snared in legal troubles WHEN their scam was examined and found to nothing but a fraud.

    I believe that is why they did it, they already know that the people who believe their BS are too lazy or incapable of either thinking for themselves or checking up on their lack of facts.

    Corsi has scammed the Birther rubes so many times that he doesn’t even care about being sloppy about it because they ALWAYS believe him without question.
    To them he is their Messiah and is incapable of lying to them.

  16. avatar
    JPotter March 8, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    Hey, to pile onto the already overloaded ignorance train, did ZulloCorsi actually capitalize PIKA/PICA everywhere they used it? If so …. why? The only reason I could think of would be that they thought it was an acronym … which would indicates a dearth of research …. no grasp of a technical subject …. failure to attempt to tap knowledgeable people for input … indicating they have pontificated from the depths of ignorance.

    Surely not. No responsible author would do such a thing. 😐

    _______

    Wait for it …..

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    [Yes, it is in all caps in each of the 8 instances of the word in the book. Doc.]

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2012 at 1:32 pm #

    Given the overall sloppy editing of the book, I attribute this misspelling to incompetence and neglect.

    mbrown: Is there some reason they would deliberately use the spelling PIKA and not PICA to avoid accountability ?

  18. avatar
    Sean March 8, 2012 at 1:34 pm #

    If it’s Obama, you just automatically assume everything is fake…………….unless it serves your purpose.

  19. avatar
    jayHG March 8, 2012 at 2:04 pm #

    Sean: If it’s Obama, you just automatically assume everything is fake…………….unless it serves your purpose.

    It must be REALLY FRUSTRATING to be a birther and have to look at President Obama being President of the United States, getting on and off Air Force One, leading the free world and damn it, he won’t at least try to lighten his skin or SOMETHING to make birthers feel better……….as I said, it must be REALLY FRUSTRATING…….

  20. avatar
    John Woodman March 8, 2012 at 2:10 pm #

    It’s WORSE THAN THAT, Doc.

    If you look at the rubber slugs they have IN THEIR OWN PHOTO, you will see that there are two kinds of date slugs. The “day” numbers are wider than the “year” ones.

    They cut a “2008” slug in two, and inverted the last half to create an “80.”

    The very KIT that they have there contains, among the date stamps, ALL of the digits that you need. Take a “1” from “2010” or “2011,” a “9” from “2009” (which isn’t shown but we know it’s in there because they had “2008,” take the “8” and the “0,” a sharp knife, and you’ve got it.

    There would’ve been simply no reason for anybody to leave out the “19” if they were attempting to do a forgery.

    There’s a fundamental fallacy that is repeated by the birthers again and again and again.

    Just because it is theoretically, remotely possible that something could have happened (e.g., that a baby could have been born in Kenya, or that a postal stamp could have been faked) does not constitute PROOF that the proposed thing actually DID happen.

  21. avatar
    Al Halbert March 8, 2012 at 2:46 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy;

    Nice attempt, however all you have proven is that you can buy so called “PICA” stamp inserts on the internet; PICA refers to the typeface, more importantly to the sizing of the type or typeface. While it is true you can buy “PICA” stamp inserts on the internet, are these the type that the USPS used in 1980? The term PICA refers to the type face or in more modern parlance the font or the sizing of the font or type face.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pica_%28typography%29

    Please note that the Postal Service had a specific engineering requirement for these rubber stamps and inserts that were used with their hand cancelling stamper which is found in PSN 7520-01-000-9100 and covers Hand Stamper loaded with Type Inserts for Model No. 550, 570 and 552 Stamper, the individual year rubber stamp insert was P/N 0-642.

    Please go the following link;
    http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/452506c.pdf

    Scroll down to Pg. 118; this is United States Postal Service Drawing No. USPS DRG 14-340, please review the 0-642 specification for the rubber stamp, notice that the DATE STAMP year is .344 inches tall by .373 long and what appears to the .087 wide to fit with appropriate tolerances within the 550, 570 and 552 Stamper and has a “4 digit year,” Not “2 digits” as shown in description section of the drawing and specification box 0-642 which is shown as year 1963. There is probably a specification sheet that is sent out with this drawing to the manufacturer specifying the durometer (Shore Hardness) of the rubber and any specific type face or font to use as well for quote and manufacture.

    Please go to the following link for Postal Bulletin PB 21905—OCTOBER 26, 1995;
    http://lcpshome.org/pb/pb21905.pdf

    Please go to page 2, notice in the list for 8. that the same 0-642 rubber stamp insert specification number for 1996 as it was in 1971 shown in USPS DRG-14-340 drawing. Please also note that this drawing shows the revisions for this drawing going back to what appears to be 1962 or 1963, with the drawing dated March 1, 1971.

    While I cannot say with explicit certainty the same 0-642 stamp inserts were the exactly same in1995 as were in 1971, however the same P/N’s are used. Please notice the drawing history for USPS DRG 14-340 shown on page 118 of the second link; it is a good bet that it was the same in 1980, as the Hand Stamper P/N did not change model designation from 1962 to 1995 nor the date year inserts 0-642.

    In most cases to create a complete and accurate history when you create Engineering Drawings (proper engineering practice) is to assign new part numbers when significant changes to a part is made, possibly even revising the assembly that is effected by this change and possibly the complete or top assembly as well. This is done when a part is meant to fit within another part so that improper mating of components does not happen. This is done so that when they come together or in contact on the manufacturing floor or in this case the Postal Service Branch Office they fit together properly. This method has predominately been the case for my 15 years as a practicing engineer and three before that when I was a technician. And is the way it has been done in all the companies I have worked for as well when I do consulting work for clients.

    Now for the KICKER;

    You wasted all that typing to prove NOTHING, what you have proven is that Obama’s Selective Service card is a Forgery since it is still at the end of the day has only two digits not the required four as shown in DRG 14-340 with the oldest provable year 1963. Zullo and company did not reveal where his Selective Service card came from that they rendered an opinion on, that I remember. However it appears to be the same that is at the following website which is attributed to a Freedom of Information request;

    http://obfelony.webs.com/

    The height of the Type Face insert (PICA) is .344 inches to provide a large interference bearing surface so that friction can hold the typeface insert rigidly within the stamp insert holder, or simply the stamper at the proper height so that when it comes in contact with a piece of mail all information becomes legibly imprinted at one time. The stamper and inserts must perform literally thousands if not hundred of thousands of cycles throughout any given year as it was only changed when damaged or yearly as required for any date year.

    Mike Zullo’s comment(s) referring to the typeface as PICA is not entirely accurate as it is a vernacular or slang for the typeface used in the stamper as an insert and probably garnered from the experts (current and past state of the art practitioners) that were consulted for his investigation, technically wrong for verbiage not for substance.

    However he is entirely correct that the insert he modified was the correct 0-642 insert used in 550, 570 and 552 Stamper (shown in the pictures) which was no longer available for these stampers (1980 year) which would have been used to hand cancel and verify receipt by the Postal Service of mail and government documents they are authorized to receive. And is plausible given the way in which the forgery was duplicated by him and his team of experts.

    The Postal Service acts as the receiver for the Government Agency that the piece of mail is addressed to in this case the Selective Service, they also act for the United States Patent Office as well which is only two of several agencies of the Federal Government which they are authorized to be the official government receiver when a penalty could attach for late filing or jeopardy attaches to these documents. April 15th ring any BELLS? They could be custom made though would be illegal as it would have to be made to a USPS or USPO specifications to fit within the 550, 570 and 552 stamper and would be a counterfeit stamp since it takes a government contract to make them legally, and NOT available on Ebay.

    Conclusion;

    Remember these are trained Law Enforcement personnel and so they must be accurate in what they are referring to. Another article debunked in regard to Mike Zullo, the stamp insert you pass off as “readily available” do not meet USPS regulations to fit within the 550, 570 and 552 stampers that are used for hand cancellation of the mail received by the post office or serving as proof of receipt by the government agency they are addressed to.

    So of course this brings up the question on how many other suppositions are you also incorrect about as you fervently support Obama?

    Lincoln quote;

    You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

    Reagan quote;

    Trust but verify.

  22. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2012 at 2:52 pm #

    Al Halbert: You wasted all that typing to prove NOTHING, what you have proven is that Obama’s Selective Service card is a Forgery since it is still at the end of the day has only two digits

    Huh? How is it a forgery when the number of the form and the registration number is close to Bruce Henderson who registered a few days later in Hawaii?

    You have to make a better argument than that the form is a ‘forgery’ just because of two missing digits?

    Is it possible? Yes, plausible? Not really given the circumstantial evidence.

    Remember these are trained Law Enforcement personnel

    ROTFL… They are people who hate Obama and who are working with birthers to market their arguments…

    If they are really believing that they have a case, they have the duty to submit it to an AG/DA lest they run afoul of misprision.

    And yet, they will never be as foolish as to refer this to any real law enforcement or DA as they know there is no case. This is all about publicity and they have failed to generate ANY interest from the media and Congress.

    What a FAIL.

    Let us know when something relevant occurs here.

  23. avatar
    Rickey March 8, 2012 at 2:55 pm #

    National Review is exhorting conservatives to disassociate themselves from Arpaio.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/292780/conspiracy-again-editors

  24. avatar
    Scientist March 8, 2012 at 3:00 pm #

    Al Halbert: Remember these are trained Law Enforcement personnel

    Who? Prove that statement…There were no law enforcement personnel involved in the CCP and it was NOT a law enforcement investigation. No actual charges will ever result. It was siimply a book tour.

    Al Halbert: However it appears to be the same that is at the following website which is attributed to a Freedom of Information request;
    http://obfelony.webs.com/

    In the absence of a provable chain of custody, the document is legally worthless. Analysis of a worthless document = worthless analysis

    The bottom line is Zullo has analyzed a computer image of unknown providence.

    Here are the facts: President Obama received federal finacial aid in the form of loans and grants to attend undergraduate college and law school. This is proven conclusively by the fact that people were arrested and pled guilty to charges of illegally accessing his student loan records (in a REAL law enforcement investigation). In order to obtain such loans he would have had to have registered for the Selective Service in 1980.

    So there is NO forgery. Period. End of story.

  25. avatar
    richCares March 8, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    has our “Trust but verify.” fellow explained why the Bush administration would forge Obama’s form?

  26. avatar
    Al Halbert March 8, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

    Scientist: Who? Prove that statement…There were no law enforcementpersonnel involved in the CCP and it was NOT a law enforcement investigation.No actual charges will ever result.It was siimply a book tour.

    In the absence of a provable chain of custody, the document is legally worthless.Analysis of a worthless document = worthless analysis

    The bottom line is Zullo has analyzed a computer image of unknown providence.

    Here are the facts:President Obama received federal finacial aid in the form of loans and grants to attend undergraduate college and law school.This is proven conclusively by the fact that people were arrested and pled guilty to charges of illegally accessing his student loan records (in a REAL law enforcement investigation).In order to obtain such loans he would have had to have registered for the Selective Service in 1980.

    So there is NO forgery.Period. End of story.

    The word you are looking for is Provenance not Providence!

    “Definition of PROVENANCE
    1 : origin, source
    2 : the history of ownership of a valued object or work of art or literature

  27. avatar
    Scientist March 8, 2012 at 3:27 pm #

    Al Halbert: The word you are looking for is Provenance not Providence!

    Yes. So where did Zullo get the document he analyzed? From a birther/birther website. Therefore the document and the analysis thereof is worthless.

    Now where is Zullo’s c.v.? What are his qualifications?.

    How is that indictment coming???

    As George Washington said, You got nothing, sucker…

  28. avatar
    richCares March 8, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    you have to bear with poor Al Halbert, he is in disarray over the complete failure of Sheriff Joe’s bither meme. This was their last OMG moment so it’s total flop will take time to sink in. What we should do with poor Al is suggest a good mental health expert, I’m sure his family would appreciate that. OK AL tell us your location so we can recommend someone in your area.

  29. avatar
    JoZeppy March 8, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

    massive amount of wasted timeP>

    And for all your blathering, you still can’t prove that it was a forgery, rather than a damaged stamp, improperly inserted year, dry ink pad, stamped on an uneven surface, uneven hit on the paper, or any countless other variables involved in taking a manual stamp to paper.

    Al Halbert: Remember these are trained Law Enforcement personnel

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Al Halbert: so they must be accurate in what they are referring to

    Judging the quality of the report….I don’t think accuracy was a goal of the “report”

    Al Halbert: So of course this brings up the question on how many other suppositions are you also incorrect about as you fervently support Obama?

    So where are the indictments? If this is such rock solid evidence of forgery and fraud, I would expect them to be flying by now….unless of course, this is a total sham designed to get some publicity, and make a few bucks on the side.

  30. avatar
    Sef March 8, 2012 at 4:07 pm #

    JoZeppy: And for all your blathering, you still can’t prove that it was a forgery, rather than a damaged stamp, improperly inserted year, dry ink pad, stamped on an uneven surface, uneven hit on the paper, or any countless other variables involved in taking a manual stamp to paper.

    Not only is there no proof of a forgery, but there is no proof that the government did not accept this registration. The CCP didn’t even try to find out if the President ever really registered for the draft.

  31. avatar
    JoZeppy March 8, 2012 at 4:10 pm #

    Al Halbert: However it appears to be the same that is at the following website which is attributed to a Freedom of Information request;
    http://obfelony.webs.com/

    So let’s get this straight….they’re claiming to have “probable cause” of forgery, based on images of documents they get off the internets, including documents procured from anti-Obama websites. They never actually see any of the documents in question. They never bother to do their own FOIA request, or even contact any of the acutual custodians of any of the records they purport to be forgeries. And yet somehow you claim that “these are trained Law Enforcement personnel so they must be accurate in what they are referring to”? And I haven’t even touch on the lack of impartiality of the collection of misfits they brought together for this “investigation.”

    There is a very good reason why no one in the real world is taking Sheriff Joe seriously. It may have to do with the fact that everything about it is completely laughable.

  32. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2012 at 4:38 pm #

    In 1995 these were some of the items of relevance. It is unclear how the USPO stamps worked but it may be presumed that they were similar and that the years for USPO and USPS stamps were interchangeable?

    550 2 per finance unit. Rubber Postmarking and Canceling Stamp (Figure AP6.F3.).

    552 Rubber Receiving or Dating Stamp (handle furnished) (Figure AP6.F4.).

    570 2 per finance unit. Rubber All-Purpose Dating Stamp (without handle) (Figure AP6.F5.).

    645 1 per each item 550 and 552.Rubber pica type (Figure AP6.F6.) (for use with items 550 and 552).

    0592 Stamp, rubber, band type, revolving line dater, month, day, and year sequence, size
    1 1/2.

    0595 Stamp, rubber, revolving, numbering, 6-band.

    0635 Rubber type, pica, in sets for days, months, and 6 consecutive years, with tweezers.

    0642 Rubber type, pica, for year only: Order for current year only.

  33. avatar
    Scientist March 8, 2012 at 4:51 pm #

    JoZeppy: So let’s get this straight….they’re claiming to have “probable cause” of forgery, based on images of documents they get off the internets, including documents procured from anti-Obama websites

    i will argue that Obama’s actual registration form remains in the archives, has never been released and has never been analyzed. The only fact established is that he received federal student loans and thus is presumed to have lawfully registered in 1980 as required by law.

    THE END

  34. avatar
    mbrown March 8, 2012 at 5:14 pm #

    I downloaded a picture of Mike Zullo to my computer and opened it with Illustrator.
    Too many layers, and his nose and eyes are in the wrong place, as if they were photo shopped in later. His image is a computer fabricated forgery, and the only conclusion is he
    is ineligible to be a resident of Arizona. I did the same for an image of Sheriff Arpaio. and found too many layers. Fake. They are both Illegal alien. We are now justified to impersonate them to get access to their Selective Service cards and their Social Security records. It is our duty.

  35. avatar
    G March 8, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    Agreed. Well said.

    John Woodman: There’s a fundamental fallacy that is repeated by the birthers again and again and again.

    Just because it is theoretically, remotely possible that something could have happened (e.g., that a baby could have been born in Kenya, or that a postal stamp could have been faked) does not constitute PROOF that the proposed thing actually DID happen.

  36. avatar
    Jamese777 March 8, 2012 at 6:14 pm #

    Two more birther legal losses to report: Allen v Obama is dismissed in Arizona (ballot challenge) and Sunhara v Hawaii Department of Health gets a defense Motion for Summary Judgement favorable ruling in Honolulu.
    By my count, that’s 182 birther legal defeats and 0 birther legal victories.

  37. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    Allen v Obama

    Obama NBC according to US v Wong Kim Ark, Minor does not apply.

    FAIL

    But even assuming that the current challenge falls within this Court’s purview to decide, there are indispensible parties, most notably Arizona’s Secretary of State, who has not been named in the lawsuit. See A.R.S. 16-344(A), (B). Most importantly, Arizona courts are bound by United States Supreme Court precedent in construing the United States Constitution, Arizona v. Jay J. Garfield Bldg. Co., 39 Ariz. 45, 54, 3 P.2d 983, 986 (1931), and this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution and thus qualified to hold the office of President. See United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702-03 (1898) (addressing U. S. Const. amend. XIV); Ankeny v. Governor of the State of Indiana, 916 N.E.2d 678, 684-88 (Ind. App. 2010) (addressing the precise issue). Contrary to Plaintiff’s assertion, Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874), does not hold otherwise.

  38. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny March 8, 2012 at 6:36 pm #

    Jamese777: Allen v Obama is dismissed in Arizona

    So, in the real world, it is Arpaio’s state which is the first to tell him that his investigation is not worth the paper it is written on. Allen even asked for a stay to allow him to provide additional evidence, but the judge would have nothing of it.

  39. avatar
    G March 8, 2012 at 6:36 pm #

    So add AZ to the list of states this year that has reaffirmed the findings of Ankeny.

    nbc: Allen v Obama
    Obama NBC according to US v Wong Kim Ark, Minor does not apply.
    FAIL
    But even assuming that the current challenge falls within this Court’s purview to decide, there are indispensible parties, most notably Arizona’s Secretary of State, who has not been named in the lawsuit. See A.R.S. 16-344(A), (B). Most importantly, Arizona courts are bound by United States Supreme Court precedent in construing the United States Constitution, Arizona v. Jay J. Garfield Bldg. Co., 39 Ariz. 45, 54, 3 P.2d 983, 986 (1931), and this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution and thus qualified to hold the office of President. See United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702-03 (1898) (addressing U. S. Const. amend. XIV); Ankeny v. Governor of the State of Indiana, 916 N.E.2d 678, 684-88 (Ind. App. 2010) (addressing the precise issue). Contrary to Plaintiff’s assertion, Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874), does not hold otherwise.

  40. avatar
    Monkey Boy March 8, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    I just don’t get it. Birfers are the first to claim that reproduced images of the President’s birth certifications have no value in court–and, they are right so far. However, they readily accept BS analyses of images–sometimes of doubtful provenance–of documents as absolute proof of forgeries.

    Will the Cold Case Pussies (a pejorative is warranted here because they are afraid to show their faces, or attach their names) take a 3rd generation of an image of a Selective Service registration, with no clear chain of custody, to court? I thought not. Put you heinies on the line as much as you mouths, birfers.

  41. avatar
    Thrifty March 8, 2012 at 8:30 pm #

    Hold up here. Let me see if I got this straight.

    Cold Case Posse (weeknights at 10/9 Central on CBS this Fall!) gets image of Obama’s Selective Service registration from a web site. Analyzes that. Believes it was a forgery because of a falsely manufactured rubber stamp that was applied to the paper copy.

    They get an image of the president’s birth certificate from a web site. Analyze it. Believe it is a forgery completely created by computer.

    So the vast, shadowy, Obama criminal conspiracy creates some forged documents in image creation programs and releases them, creates other ones on real paper and scans them.

    One wonders why the forgers who allegedly created the fake LFBC in Photoshop or whatever didn’t just create the selective service registration the same way.

    And wasn’t Obama’s social security number, which Birthers claim is stolen, acquired from his selective service registration? So he registered for the draft with a stolen social security number, then forged a draft registration application? I want to use some kind of metaphor for an equally stupid series of criminal acts, but I can’t think of anything that would make sense.

  42. avatar
    Thrifty March 8, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    In response to Doc’s original question: “What the heck is a PIKA stamp?”

    This is:

    http://www.amazon.com/Pikachu-Pokemon-Rubber-Figure-Nintendo/dp/B006G1A0C0

  43. avatar
    Whatever4 March 8, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    Al Halbert:
    Dr. Conspiracy;

    Nice attempt, however all you have proven is that you can buy so called “PICA” stamp inserts on the internet; PICA refers to the typeface, more importantly to the sizing of the type or typeface. While it is true you can buy “PICA” stamp inserts on the internet, are these the type that the USPS used in 1980?The term PICA refers to the type face or in more modern parlance the font or the sizing of the font or type face.

    Well, these appear to be the ones used in the Cold Case Posse investigation. That’s Doc’s point.

    Remember these are trained Law Enforcement personnel and so they must be accurate in what they are referring to.Another article debunked in regard to Mike Zullo, the stamp insert you pass off as “readily available” do not meet USPS regulations to fit within the 550, 570 and 552 stampers that are used for hand cancellation of the mail received by the post office or serving as proof of receipt by the government agency they are addressed to.

    Yet the Pica number sets were used in the CCP investigation.

    Lincoln quote;

    You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

    Reagan quote;

    Trust but verify.

    Perhaps you should verify that Lincoln quote. http://channels.isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/lincoln/lincoln

  44. avatar
    Whatever4 March 8, 2012 at 9:12 pm #

    Thrifty:
    In response to Doc’s original question: “What the heck is a PIKA stamp?”

    This is:

    http://www.amazon.com/Pikachu-Pokemon-Rubber-Figure-Nintendo/dp/B006G1A0C0

    THE POST OFFICE USED THESE???
    /idiocymode

  45. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 8, 2012 at 9:41 pm #

    Al Halbert: Remember these are trained Law Enforcement personnel and so they must be accurate in what they are referring to.

    Who are the members of the posse? What is their training? What academies did they attend? In which states have they been or are they certified as peace officers?

    And, bad news, “trained Law Enforcement personnel” are often wrong. That’s why their cases go through prosecutors and before judges and juries before people are punished.

  46. avatar
    Thrifty March 8, 2012 at 10:03 pm #

    I was a little confused by that too, moreso than most Birther posts. It starts out with the usual “Obama could end this if he just blah blah blah” empty promises, went on to the common “most of America wants answers it’s definitely not just a vocal minority that is openly mocked by even the most conservative Republican news outlets blah blah blah” and of course the unsupported “millions of dollars spent hiding the truth blah blah blah”. Then when it segued into some weird rant about some law enforcement operations against drug dealers, I got really confused.

    Funniest thing about “Obama can make this all go away by releasing his records” is that these people already subscribe to the “must have 2 citizen parents to be eligible” nonsense. Even if you found a magic lamp, a genie popped out and spontaneously generated every single record pertaining to Obama that you could possibly want, they would be irrelevant. The allegedly disqualifying fact of his father never being a US citizen is in a book written by Barack Obama that is available in bookstores and libraries all over the country.

    nbc: The fast and furious started under Bush… It got out of hands. Sad. but so what?

    And what does this have to do with Obama’s eligibility? Sigh…

  47. avatar
    Thrifty March 8, 2012 at 10:04 pm #

    I have it on good authority that Pikachu was born in Japan, and is therefore not a natural born citizen.

  48. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 8, 2012 at 11:14 pm #

    Why do all the Judges and Elections Officers find that President Obama is a Constitutionally eligible natural born citizen, ‘Al’? Why do they never for second entertain doubts about his documentation? Even those who happen to be conservative Republicans?

    The answer is mind-bogglingly simple, ‘Al’… It’s because they are in their right minds, and you are not. I’m serious. You’re a few ants short of a picnic, in layman’s terms. The lights are on, but nobody’s home. This is not an ad hominem attack on your arguments, it’s a clincal observation. You should NOT seek professional help, because it would be a waste of time and money. You have fallen into a state of incurable ignorance.

    That’s why your opinions are at odds with sober, responsible conservatives who oppose President Obama politically. They would happily concur with your ideas if they made any sense, but they don’t. The whole Birther mythology is a tale told by an idiot: it signifies nothing. Sane people can see that, and you can’t.

    There is only one conclusion that can be drawn. Your condition is grave and the prognosis poor. You have my sympathy, but you should quarantine youself so you don’t infect others. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, but it stand little chance against Birtheritis Derangement Syndrome.

    The only thing that might work is guided rational therapy. Each day, try concentrating on one irrational belief, and ask yourself “What do all these bright, level-headed people see that I’m missing?” If you can break through and accept that Vattel didn’t even use the term ‘natural born citizen’ one day, and understand that the Minor v. Happersett decision had no bearing on BHO’s eligibility a day or two later, you might gradually recover.

    But it’s unlikely, sad to say, that you’ll ever take that crucial first step towards a normal life.

    The heartbreak of BDS. Such a waste.

  49. avatar
    Keith March 9, 2012 at 12:21 am #

    Al Halbert: Remember these are trained Law Enforcement personnel

    Name one ‘trained Law Enforcement personnel’ that was involved in the inquiry, other than Arpaio, who is a politician and an administrator, and didn’t participate other than to agree to the book deal.

  50. avatar
    G March 9, 2012 at 12:22 am #

    Oh Al, you prove yourself to be nothing but a cheap Concern Troll. “Obama could end all this tomorrow if only”…blah blah blah
    *Yawn* Give it a rest a save your breath. No one is buying this cheap tactic from you folks. You’ve cried wolf one to many times with this same line, ever shifting the goalposts on it. It is an utterly failed tactic that garnishes NO sympathy from anyone. He’s provided the COLB. He’s provided the LFBC. The state of HI and ALL evidence to date backs all of that up. There is nothing more to show.
    Nor do you ever require this same level of scrutiny from ANY other candidate. So spare us your dishonest and disingenuous crocodile tears here. No one is buying it.

    Al Halbert:
    Obama could end all of this tomorrow if only he would release all his records for verification and vetting by 3rd parties. He also cannot be harmed by this as he has already released his true and certified copy of his BC in to the public domain, what is stopping him? This would remove all doubt from all Americans and the Worlds mind and literally destroy the birther movement in a single stroke.

    *rolls eyes*. Gee, just another lame Concern Trolling attempt from you here. Sorry, but the only negative perception from the rest of the world is AGAINST you Birthers. You make our country look silly and crazy. Face it, your entire made up movement is a joke and just a cover story to try to explain away your gut-level irrational hatred towards this President. Whether you are just a sore-loser or a bigot, it doesn’t matter. Give it up. The sham of Birtherism is DOA.

    Al Halbert:
    Having this cloud over him not only effects us, but the entire world.Can you imagine how this is perceived by the Worlds leaders and our enemies? More than likely they have taken the measure of Obama and found him wanting, much the same as a majority of Americans have, saying it is not so (the fantasy of Obama as a great leader), does not make it true.

    Ah, desperately trotting out that old Birther lie, I see. Sorry, but you’re just spouting made up numbers that have no basis in reality. Give it up already.
    In reality, the majority of any expense that has taken place here has been on the Birther’s side, as they are the one’s wasting the Court’s time bringing this frivolous nonsense forward. Most has been dismissed with minimal defense cost and effort. Why don’t you seem to care about how much money you Birthers have wasted on a fool’s errand and lost cause…?

    Al Halbert:

    However he has spent something like 1 to 2 million dollars keeping everything (documents, credentials and bona fides) locked up never to see the light of day, why?

    No, it simply comes down to 2 points on this particular issue:
    1) It has ZERO relevance to Obama’s eligibility to hold office.
    2) You do realize when this “Fast and Furious” program started, don’t you? Oh yeah, that’s right – The GW Bush administration. But nice try. Keep failing…

    Al Halbert:
    If only everyone would get as WORKED up over Fast & Furious that caused the death and destruction of what, several hundred if not a thousand or more defenseless Mexican Nationals, by the Obama Administration as the Mexican Drug Cartels arms dealer and money launderers and…….Of course all those bodies and the several Federal Agents are a BIRTHER fabrication as well, better yet a vast MSM Media plot to discredit Obama, and Darrel Issa and Eric Holder are just a figments of our imagination as the hearings develop credible evidence of criminal acts and of willful negligence and malfeasance in office.If we follow logic (or lack of it) from liberal progressives it is just another data point that does not concern them, from the liberals perspective they are just a bunch or Mexican Nationals and necessary carnage as they bring about the new progressive order and sweep it all under a very lumpy rug, as there is no more room the under the bus.

  51. avatar
    Norbrook March 9, 2012 at 10:57 am #

    Funny thing is, I’ve had to use a lot of ink stamps over the years in the course of my work. It’s amazing (to birthers, at least) at how often things don’t look “perfect” in reality. This looks like a poor ink job on the stamp, or the stamp was at the wrong angle. I’ve had times where half the print on the stamp I was using didn’t get on the paper.

    Al Halbert:
    I was just deceived by those nasty Birthers and those Tea Party Racists spewing their hatred for the best president ever, wow what was I thinking.All the court cases lost by those nasty people trying to stop Obama, can’t they just see how right he is, so what that they never got a trial so the facts could be developed, they just deserve to punished for doubting Obama.What is wrong with them, can’t they see all the good work he has saved or created, if only those nasty Republicans would give him everything he wants this nation would turn around tomorrow.

    Any other crap you want to spew, Al? Let me put it this way. I think George Bush is an idiot, who slacked off the job and got the country into wars it shouldn’t have been in. I think Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal are hypocritical jerks who promulgate terrible policies. But you know what? I don’t question that they’re “natural born citizens,” and if the latter two ran for President, I’d vote against them, but I wouldn’t question their right to run.

    So, yes, there’s an incredible strain of racism behind the birther movement. You’re not attacking his policies, you’re all attacking his right to hold the office in the first place. We get it, really.

  52. avatar
    Arthur March 9, 2012 at 11:09 am #

    Hi Norbrook:

    I just visited your blog and I enjoyed reading your posts. I look forward to coming back. Keep up the good work!

  53. avatar
    Northland10 March 9, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    Al Halbert: In an earlier POST I asked about

    “What the heck is a pika stamp anyway” That is the topic Al. Stay on it or leave (or get somewhere near the topic).

  54. avatar
    Majority Will March 9, 2012 at 7:22 pm #

    Al Halbert: a story out of Russia from Pravda

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! !

  55. avatar
    Arthur March 9, 2012 at 7:40 pm #

    Al Halbert: In an earlier POST I asked about what the Worlds Leaders and international perception of the Obama Illegibility question would pose; that has now been answered by a story out of Russia from Pravda.

    Al, Pravda Online doesn’t have any credibility as an objective news source. It is dedicated to spreading conspiracy memes that are beneath the dignity of the National Enquirer. Here, for example, are some of the subjects that Pravda Online has presented as actual news items.

    The Moon landings are a hoax.
    Global warming is a hoax.
    HIV is a hoax.
    Evolution is a hoax.
    Russia has a HIV vaccine.
    An alien base was filmed on the moon.
    A time travel machine was created.
    America is ready to attack Russia.
    Nostradamus foresaw World War III in 2010.
    Atlantis was discovered under Antarctica.
    Human and alien skulls were discovered on Mars.
    Fishermen caught and ate an alien.
    A young boy called Boris Kipriyanovich is an indigo child and the reincarnation of a Martian.

    .

  56. avatar
    Arthur March 9, 2012 at 7:44 pm #

    Northland10: That is the topic Al. Stay on it or leave (or get somewhere near the topic).

    Looks like Dr. C. took matters into his own fingers.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 9, 2012 at 10:09 pm #

    Some idiot on YouTube has figured out who Joe Arpaio’s person of interest is: Robert Gibbs. He has a video showing where Gibbs confesses to putting the birth certificate on the Internet, taken from the White House Press Conference March 4, 2010.

    I told him that that video was about the short form, but he said I was wrong, should watch the whole clip, then deleted my comment and blocked me before I could give him the details.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQuzmNaEcs

  58. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 9, 2012 at 11:52 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Some idiot on YouTube has figured out who Joe Arpaio’s person of interest is: Robert Gibbs. He has a video showing where Gibbs confesses to putting the birth certificate on the Internet, taken from the White House Press Conference March 4, 2010.

    I don’t know what the video shows but the transcript says:

    “MR. GIBBS: Lester, I’m the guy — I’m the guy that said, put the President’s birth certificate on the Internet two years ago.”

    Long, short, whatever…..it looks to me like Gibbs is only confessing to have suggested putting what they got from Hawaii on the internet.

    But…..even if he had scanned it himself and uploaded it to the White House website……what’s the problem?????

  59. avatar
    G March 10, 2012 at 12:53 am #

    *rolls eyes*

    If that really is their claimed “suspect”, then they really are dumber and more clueless that even I suspected.

    LOL… let them try to go after Robert Gibbs on that… good luck with that one! LOL!

    CarlOrcas: I don’t know what the video shows but the transcript says:“MR. GIBBS: Lester, I’m the guy — I’m the guy that said, put the President’s birth certificate on the Internet two years ago.”Long, short, whatever…..it looks to me like Gibbs is only confessing to have suggested putting what they got from Hawaii on the internet.But…..even if he had scanned it himself and uploaded it to the White House website……what’s the problem?????

    Dr. Conspiracy: Some idiot on YouTube has figured out who Joe Arpaio’s person of interest is: Robert Gibbs. He has a video showing where Gibbs confesses to putting the birth certificate on the Internet, taken from the White House Press Conference March 4, 2010.I told him that that video was about the short form, but he said I was wrong, should watch the whole clip, then deleted my comment and blocked me before I could give him the details.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQuzmNaEcs

  60. avatar
    Majority Will March 10, 2012 at 1:28 am #

    Arthur: Al, Pravda Online doesn’t have any credibility as an objective news source. It is dedicated to spreading conspiracy memes that are beneath the dignity of the National Enquirer. Here, for example, are some of the subjects that Pravda Online has presented as actual news items.

    The Moon landings are a hoax.
    Global warming is a hoax.
    HIV is a hoax.
    Evolution is a hoax.
    Russia has a HIV vaccine.
    An alien base was filmed on the moon.
    A time travel machine was created.
    America is ready to attack Russia.
    Nostradamus foresaw World War III in 2010.
    Atlantis was discovered under Antarctica.
    Human and alien skulls were discovered on Mars.
    Fishermen caught and ate an alien.
    A young boy called Boris Kipriyanovich is an indigo child and the reincarnation of a Martian.

    .

    But Al’s basement lair could be papered with clippings from Pravda, Canada Free Press and the Weekly World News.

    PUTIN DONATES 1 BILLION TO OBAMA SUPERPAC?
    Posted on Thursday, March 8th, 2012

    (excerpt) Sources close to Putin say that the Russian President feels that he can control President Obama, “easily”, and that he’d have a much tougher time with any of the Republican candidates, except Ron Paul. ”Putin feels that if Obama is re-elected than Putin can become the defacto leader of the world. And his dream will come true.”

    Russians were quick to comment:

    “It is about time that Russia take over the world, once and for all. We should buy all of America right now. It is cheap. Not worth much any more,” said Ivan Krosnev, a member of the Russian government.

    Mitt Romney said that he plans to meet with Putin and try to persuade him to rethink his contribution.

    In the meantime, Senator McCain keeps screaming…

    “Citizens United!”

    (http://weeklyworldnews.com/politics/45044/putin-donates-1-billion-to-obama-superpac/)

  61. avatar
    J. Potter March 10, 2012 at 10:07 am #

    When the screen becomes reality … investigations via YouTube LOL!

    A birther on another forum was telling me how gas prices were skyrocketing. He couldn’t (wouldn’t) confirm his local gas prices. How did he know they were going up? TV (FOX news 😉 )told him.

  62. avatar
    Mark Edward Gillar March 14, 2012 at 8:42 pm #

    LOL Too bad no one had a vintage 1980 set available about the time Obama shot his mouth off about registering for selective service while being interviewed by George Stephanopoulos. His fake selective service card was created approximately two
    days later.

    Speaking of vintage, and we were, that’s a vintage John David Potter remark above. The only the thing that matters is the price of gas when Obama took office and the price of gas now. ID JDP actually suggesting the price of gas hasn’t gone up?

    The higher price of gas is a direct result of Obama’s energy policies designed to kiss the asses of his green supporters. That’s what is important here. Not the other person’s source.

    I’ve got an idea John, show me a source MSNBC, NYT or any other liberal source you treasure that will risk the humiliation of suggesting that gas prices have gone down since Obama took office.

    One of these days you’ll actually see the forest John, but for the foreseeable future, you’re still focused on the trees.

  63. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    Maybe the rising cost of gas is because it’s a nonrenewable natural resource that billions of people use every day.

    What, simple supply and demand? Impossible!

    Gas was more expensive in the summer of 2008 than it is now. It hit a high of about $4.30 a gallon for regular in my neck of the woods. Got some fancy excuse for why that was NOT the previous administration’s fault?

    Then it fell to under $2.00 a gallon in early 2009 when Obama took office. I don’t recall anyone praising him for that.

    How about instead of blaming all our problems on a President just because we don’t like him we act like adults for one minute and realize that the world is more complicated than that.

    I do love that the “forged selective service registration” is now in every Birther’s repertoire. It’s like, if it’s a crank theory about Obama, it simply MUST be true.

  64. avatar
    Scientist March 14, 2012 at 9:05 pm #

    Mark Edward Gillar: The only the thing that matters is the price of gas when Obama took office and the price of gas now. ID JDP actually suggesting the price of gas hasn’t gone up?

    When Obama took office in Jan 2009, the economy was in a dire crisis and no one knew whether a total collapse could be avoided. So, yes, gas prices went up as the recovery has proceeded. The stock market has doubled, jobs are being created, so gas prices are higher. Personally, I smile when I gas up because I have doubled my money in the market since early 2009.

    I don’t know if you have ever looked at a graph (you know one of those things with lines and axes) but oil and gas have been going up since 2001, other than a brief decline during the financial crisis. Why? China. Remember those piictures from 20 years ago of all those bicycles in Beijing? Seen one lately?-millions of cars. China now buys more cars than the US. Same story in India, Brazil, Russia, Vietnam,, you name it. Also, you might have heard that the Middle East is somewhat unstable.

    If McCain were President, you know what gas prices would be? $ 4.00/gal. And Rmoney? $ 4.00/gal.

  65. avatar
    J. Potter March 14, 2012 at 10:40 pm #

    Hi, MEG, welcome back!

    Mark Edward Gillar: His fake selective service card was created approximately two
    days later.

    I haven’t heard of this two-day timeline. What’s the story?

    Mark Edward Gillar: that’s a vintage John David Potter remark above.

    Why, I have a brand? I am honored! Please tell me more about what constitutes, in your mind, a “vintage John David Potter remark”. Have I been the subject of any focus groups yet?

    Mark Edward Gillar: JDP actually suggesting the price of gas hasn’t gone up?

    No, MEG, you intentionally missed my point, you old meme-swapper! I was making a point about a lack of direct experience on the part of birthers I have interacted with and observed. They rarely reference offline life, present YouTube clips as “proof” of everything, and are generally overly-impressed with media. They’re experiencing the world through the filter of screenland. Hilariously, a birther was caught wondering aloud at a hearing in IL: “What’s wrong with these people? It’s all on YouTube!!!”

    In this case, I was referring to the example of a birther who was complaining about “skyrocketing” gas prices …. a day after FOX had started beating the gas price drum rather than report on dropping unemployment numbers. Gas prices have gone up, from their winter low, about 20% here in Tulsa, but had already settled back down, and leveled out. I expect they’ll go up more over the summer, here’s a 6-year plot, gas vs crude, Tulsa, OK). I asked Mr. Birther what his local prices were like, and he couldn’t (wouldn’t?) say. He just wanted to parrot that TV said they were going through the roof! Dang that Obama!

    Again, MEG, the difference in your demeanor in direct correspondence and when you have an audience is striking.

  66. avatar
    gorefan March 14, 2012 at 11:29 pm #

    Mark Edward Gillar:

    How disappointed were you that the Arpaio press conference went over like a lead ballon?

  67. avatar
    Keith March 15, 2012 at 1:07 am #

    J. Potter: here’s a 6-year plot, gas vs crude, Tulsa, OK).

    Interesting chart.

    I added Tucson to your Tulsa chart and noticed something strange. While the prices were always within a few cents of each other, the Tucson prices were much less volatile Tulsa’s.

    What would account for this? Is it just the fact that Tucson is on the major east/west pipeline? Or is it fewer data points and therefore more ‘smoothing’?

  68. avatar
    John Reilly March 15, 2012 at 1:12 am #

    And when we attack Iran, and close the Straits of Hormuz, and oil goes to $200, and gas goes to $8 per gallon, what will be the excuse given by our illustrious candidates who fail to see that stuff is interconnected?

    Oops?

    On the other hand, when I drive to O’Hare, traffic will be light.

  69. avatar
    J. Potter March 15, 2012 at 1:41 am #

    Keith: Interesting chart.

    I added Tucson to your Tulsa chart and noticed something strange. While the prices were always within a few cents of each other, the Tucson prices were much less volatile Tulsa’s.

    What would account for this? Is it just the fact that Tucson is on the major east/west pipeline? Or is it fewer data points and therefore more smoothing’?

    Market forces, of course :p …. Tulsa is a larger market, and dominated by QuikTrip, which, due to insane volumes, is able to change price twice/daily at all locations. Also have a refinery in town, and is close to the massive pipeline hub in Cushing, OK.

    QT was thinking about expanding to Tucson … did they?

    One more thing about the chart that I assume MEG noticed … why have pump prices risen over the course of O’s tenure? Because the entire world economy cratered so hard in Q4 ’08, it’s taken his whole term for crude and pump prices to rebound, back onto their long-term trend. Hey, I loved the brief return of buck-fiddy gas too, but that cheap gas was way too expensive for my tastes. Anyone feel differently?

    As for energy policy, the US is less dependent on foreign oil than ever. Unfortunately, domestic oil is traded on the global market, leaving us ever at the whim of other’s countries’ consumption and every geopolitical hiccup that comes along. I mean, dang, we can’t even blow someone up without paying for it at the pump! Not fair! Like an Exxon war tax!

    In other words, I say we can’t ditch the crude stuff fast enough. I fault Obama for not having a more aggressively progressive energy policy.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 2:04 am #

    Reminds me…

    Years ago in Massachusetts, I ate at a burger place called “The Ground Round.” When I was in Tulsa, I ate at a cafeteria in the Federal Building (where the Post Office was). The cafeteria was called “The Ground Floor.”

    J. Potter: Market forces, of course :p …. Tulsa is a larger market, and dominated by QuikTrip, which, due to insane volumes, is able to change price twice/daily at all locations. Also have a refinery in town, and is close to the massive pipeline hub in Cushing, OK.

  71. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 2:15 am #

    It’s only natural for a political opponent to be an opportunist. Of course, smart people know that the President really can’t do much about gas prices on a day-to-day basis.

    J. Potter: In this case, I was referring to the example of a birther who was complaining about “skyrocketing” gas prices …. a day after FOX had started beating the gas price drum rather than report on dropping unemployment numbers.

  72. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 2:22 am #

    And how, exactly did Obama get that “fake” document issued by the Selective Service through FOIA under the Bush administration? How big, exactly, is this conspiracy?

    Mark Edward Gillar: LOL Too bad no one had a vintage 1980 set available about the time Obama shot his mouth off about registering for selective service while being interviewed by George Stephanopoulos. His fake selective service card was created approximately two
    days later.

  73. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2012 at 2:25 am #

    So you’ve never heard of Photoshop? That’s what makes this whole date flipping scenario so stupid.

    Mark Edward Gillar: LOL Too bad no one had a vintage 1980 set available about the time.

  74. avatar
    J. Potter March 15, 2012 at 2:48 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    So you’ve never heard of Photoshop? That’s what makes this whole date flipping scenario so stupid.

    My favorite part …. Why would a forger intentionally place the 2-digit year off-center, as if it was in a stamp designed to display a 4-digit year?

    They had the ’19’ on a separate layer, and accidentally forgot to turn that layer on before printing? …. and then failed to notice?

    I have seen examples of stamps with two-digit years, always centered. According to the nuts, when was this card “found”? When was it supposedly created?

  75. avatar
    gorefan March 15, 2012 at 3:37 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: And how, exactly did Obama get that “fake” document issued by the Selective Service through FOIA under the Bush administration?

    And why couldn’t they find a selective service registration card from somebody else with a 1980 date to use in the fake? Aren’t these the same people who cut and pasted an entire birth certificate from other people’s birth certificates?

  76. avatar
    Whatever4 March 15, 2012 at 5:41 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    And how, exactly did Obama get that “fake” document issued by the Selective Service through FOIA under the Bush administration? How big, exactly, is this conspiracy?

    How did the Cold Case Posse get the document they examined? Did they get it from the FOIA? The Internet? A birther? What format was it in — electronic file or paper? What was the chain of custody? It matters as a measure of how biased or non-biased the investigation actually was.

  77. avatar
    Judge Mental March 15, 2012 at 5:45 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Some idiot on YouTube has figured out who Joe Arpaio’s person of interest is: Robert Gibbs. He has a video showing where Gibbs confesses to putting the birth certificate on the Internet, taken from the White House Press Conference March 4, 2010.

    I told him that that video was about the short form, but he said I was wrong, should watch the whole clip, then deleted my comment and blocked me before I could give him the details.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQuzmNaEcs

    It’s no excuse for that guy deleting your comment and blocking you Doc but to be fair it’s pretty obvious from comparison of the relevant sections of the above transcript and youtube that the video is not in fact taken from a recording of the White House Press Conference of March 4th 2010 that you have suggested it is.

    They are distinctly different. Not only are the words used quite different (both Gibbs and the questioner) but in the video the exchange takes place as Gibbs is leaving the podium at the end of the press conference. In the transcript for 4 March 2010 Gibbs merely says something vaguely similar right in the middle of the press conference.

    I don’t know which press conference the clip is actually from nor which bc Gibbs is referring to, but it clearly doesn’t seem to be a clip from the press conference you indicated.

  78. avatar
    Whatever4 March 15, 2012 at 11:11 am #

    Judge Mental:

    I don’t know which press conference the clip is actually from nor which bc Gibbs is referring to, but it clearly doesn’t seem to be a clip from the press conference you indicated.

    It’s from June 10, 2010. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Aahw3NT6E

  79. avatar
    Garrett March 21, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

    How about a link to the eBay auction. Are we supposed to just take your word for it?

    Also, I love the way you reframe the argument by saying that the CCP was wrong about these stamps not being available but can’t come up with a reasonable response to the evidence. The availability of these stamps does nothing to change the fact that Obama’s SS stamp had no century dates. Nice try though.

    All this proves, is that when it comes to forgery, team Obama is almost as deficient in skill as they are in running the economy.

  80. avatar
    Thrifty March 21, 2012 at 7:36 pm #

    You could, I dunno, look at the stupid screenshot in the article.

    The response to the idiotic charges about the forged selective service registration were addressed in a separate article.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/sheriff-joes-selective-service-fraud-debunked/

    Birthers are so gullible. Regardless of how little sense a negative claim against Obama makes, they latch on to it like hungry wolves.

    Garrett: How about a link to the eBay auction. Are we supposed to just take your word for it?

  81. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2012 at 7:37 pm #

    Garrett: All this proves, is that when it comes to forgery, team Obama is almost as deficient in skill as they are in running the economy.

    That’s really asinine. Why are you trolling?

  82. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    Garrett: All this proves, is that when it comes to forgery

    See if you can explain the following:

    1. Since the document supposedly came from the National Archiives under an FOIA while Bush was still in office. how did the supposed forged document get in there?

    2. Why forge such a document? Suppose someone forget to resgister 28 years before as an 18 year old, so what? No one has ever been prosecuted and the statute of llimitations has long ago run out. If anyone asks, you just say,” I thought I registered, but it’s 28 years ago, so I really don’t remember,” There was no draft anyway, so you can’t even be called a draft dodger, not that that hurt Clinton.

    3. How did Obama get student loans if he didn’t register? The databases are cross-checked.

    Take your time. Team Garrett hasn’t thought things through. The stamp is not the issue. Explain the why and the how (and the where and when). Without those, you are howling at the moon.. And so is Arpaio.

  83. avatar
    Garrett March 21, 2012 at 7:51 pm #

    You could, I dunno, look at the stupid screenshot in the article.

    While I agree that the screenshot is stupid I don’t agree it proves anything. Maybe they are available. I couldn’t find them searching eBay. I guess Dr. C is like POTUS O in that he prefers to show an image rather than the actual item…in this case a link to an actual auction.

    “Look over here!!” “There is no problem with a missing century!!” And ‘birthers’ are gullible? You guys truly crack me up.

  84. avatar
    Garrett March 21, 2012 at 7:53 pm #

    That’s really asinine. Why are you trolling?

    I assure you I’m not trolling…just shining the light in the darkness of the backwoods. Explain why it is asinine to question a document with obvious anomalies?

    Simply assuming they aren’t anomalies is NOT a logical answer.

  85. avatar
    Thrifty March 21, 2012 at 7:59 pm #

    Yawn. President Obama showed both birth certificates, and I mean the actual paper copies, to the press. The first one to FactCheck.org who felt it, took photographs, and felt the raised seal. The second one to a whole room of reporters including CNN reporter Savannah Guthrie who took pictures with her cell phone camera. Hawaiian health department officials also hand delivered the long form to Obama’s lawyer and vouched for its authenticity.

    Birthers of course either pretended this never happened or cooked up further lavish conspiracy theories claiming that the press and the Hawaii state government was in on it.

    Since no member of Congress has moved for impeachment and Birthers have lost every single court challenge they have mounted, I will allow you to continue wallowing in your ridiculous delusions. Reality is on our side.

    Garrett: You could, I dunno, look at the stupid screenshot in the article.While I agree that the screenshot is stupid I don’t agree it proves anything. Maybe they are available. I couldn’t find them searching eBay. I guess Dr. C is like POTUS O in that he prefers to show an image rather than the actual item…in this case a link to an actual auction.“Look over here!!” “There is no problem with a missing century!!” And birthers’ are gullible? You guys truly crack me up.

  86. avatar
    Thrifty March 21, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    Answer Scientist’s questions or shut up.

    Garrett: That’s really asinine. Why are you trolling?I assure you I’m not trolling…just shining the light in the darkness of the backwoods. Explain why it is asinine to question a document with obvious anomalies?Simply assuming they aren’t anomalies is NOT a logical answer.

  87. avatar
    gorefan March 21, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    Garrett: Simply assuming they aren’t anomalies is NOT a logical answer.

    Hey, I got some anomalies for you.

    PresidentReagan was born in 1911, his attending physician signed his BC in 1941 and the state registrar also signed it in 1941.

    When he visited Ireland the people of Ballyporeen put up a sign welcoming him “Home”.

    So was President Reagan our first foreign-born President?

    And then there is the case of George H. Schert Jr. – AKA George Herbert Walker Bush was he are second foreign born President? And a Nazi? And what does that mean for President George W. Bush? Was he then ineligible/ How about Jeb Bush?

  88. avatar
    Garrett March 21, 2012 at 8:02 pm #

    See if you can explain the following:

    First off, you start from a false premise. The President is the one with an anomalous document. HE should defend it and present more evidence. But for the sake of argument, I’ll take a trip down wacky road with you.

    1. Since the document supposedly came from the National Archiives under an FOIA while Bush was still in office. how did the supposed forged document get in there?

    How do any documents make it into the Archives? Someone put it there…lol.

    2. Why forge such a document?
    Because you can’t serve in gov’t office if you don’t register by the required age.

    3. How did Obama get student loans if he didn’t register?
    Maybe he was registered as a foreign student or maybe someone overlooked it.

    In the end, none of those questions matter. What matters is whether the registration is real and really happened in 1980. Surely Romo will come to Obama’s aid and provide the documentation, right?

  89. avatar
    Garrett March 21, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

    Hey, I got some anomalies for you.

    If you want to investigate Reagan, have at it…I may even buy the book. As for me, I’ll concentrate on the current President.

  90. avatar
    Garrett March 21, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

    Yawn. President Obama showed both birth certificates, and I mean the actual paper copies, to the press. The first one to FactCheck.org who felt it, took photographs, and felt the raised seal. The second one to a whole room of reporters including CNN reporter Savannah Guthrie who took pictures with her cell phone camera. Hawaiian health department officials also hand delivered the long form to Obama’s lawyer and vouched for its authenticity.

    Allow me to point out some inconsistencies and misdirections in your statements.
    1) President Obama didn’t show the short-form. As far as I know nobody officially admitted ever releasing it. FactCheck.org and some other blogs showed it. Also, you can have a short form and not have been born in Hawaii. If his mom or grandmother reported the birth as a home birth it would be registered. That is why we wanted to see the long-form with hospital and Dr. signatures.
    2) Only Guthrie saw an actual certified copy. The remaining reporters were given photocopies of said certified copy. And the nation was shown a mangled scan of said certified copy.
    3) HDOH officials admitted released the long-form and posted a link to the WH.gov PDF, but they never “verified” that it was the same document. Not to mention, a forgery could have been placed on the books.

    Swing and a miss.

  91. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 8:19 pm #

    Garrett: How do any documents make it into the Archives? Someone put it there…lol.

    The document along with millions of others was “put there” when Selective Service transferred all the registration files from that era. it was certainly done long before Obama was President and likely long before he was a Senator.

    Garrett: Because you can’t serve in gov’t office if you don’t register by the required age.

    That does NOT apply to elective office. Sorry, but you need to use the gray matter more.

    Garrett: Maybe he was registered as a foreign student or maybe someone overlooked it.

    Foreign students don’t get federal loans. Only US citizens and permanent residents do. Nor do they register for the draft.

    Spend some time thinking before posting. It really would help your credibility.

  92. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 8:20 pm #

    Garrett: Swing and a miss.

    Nope. I’m a baseball fan. Thrifty hit a home run. A walk off. The game is over.

    Think more, type less.

  93. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

    Garrett: The President is the one with an anomalous document. HE should defend it and present more evidence

    It’s not anamolous and there is nothing he can say except that he registered 32 years ago. Do you want an eye witmess who remembers the auspicious event? I can tell you what the weather was in Honolulu that day-sunny and warm.

    Garrett: What matters is whether the registration is real and really happened in 1980. Surely Romo will come to Obama’s aid and provide the documentation, right?

    It is real. Selective Service is not going to respond to an Arizona Sheriff, because it;’s a federal matter. End of story You should read the Constitution.

  94. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2012 at 8:31 pm #

    Garrett: Allow me to point . . .

    Nope. Still asinine.

  95. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

    Garrett:
    Answer Scientist’s questions or shut up.

    Make me junior.

    Junior? You make a lot of assumptions.

    Here are some fun facts for reality challenged birther bigots:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    And my favorite:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/president-obama

    Check out the name of the President of the United States.

    My friends and family and I look forward to supporting Obama and Biden for reelection on Tuesday, November 6, 2012.

  96. avatar
    y_p_w March 21, 2012 at 8:40 pm #

    Garrett: 2) Only Guthrie saw an actual certified copy. The remaining reporters were given photocopies of said certified copy. And the nation was shown a mangled scan of said certified copy.

    It was sitting on a table in the White House Briefing Room. I’m sure other reporters saw it, but Guthrie was the only reporter with the chutzpah to ask to handle it.

  97. avatar
    Garrett March 21, 2012 at 8:41 pm #

    it was certainly done long before Obama was President and likely long before he was a Senator.

    I assume you can prove this conjecture?

    That does NOT apply to elective office.
    Kindly provide the federal statue in question.

    Foreign students don’t get federal loans.
    Kindly prove that he received student loans. There is just as much evidence that Bill Ayer’s parents paid his way.

    Spend some time thinking before posting.
    You wouldn’t recognize a coherent thought if crawled in your ear.

  98. avatar
    Garrett March 21, 2012 at 8:45 pm #

    It’s not anamolous and there is nothing he can say
    Kindly show me another registration with no century digits from the time period in question. PROVE it’s not anomalous. You can claim things all day, doesn’t make them true.

    Selective Service is not going to respond to an Arizona Sheriff
    True, they are not required to respond to Joe…but wouldn’t Obama want to make him look foolish? Your claim doesn’t pass the logic test. Don’t stop…believin!! Hold on to that fee-lay-eee-en! Woa-oooooo!!

  99. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

    Here are some fun facts for reality challenged birther bigots

    You mean you had the audacity to post the links I already previously mentioned in my earlier posts!! You really showed me.

    The question remains…is it the same one they released. Would the person who posted that link have even seen the one they released?

    Was a forgery placed on the books at the HDOH as Corsi claims? Why not just ignore the claims and call everyone who disagrees a bigot? That sounds sensible.

    BTW, call me a bigot to my face.

  100. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 8:50 pm #

    It was sitting on a table in the White House Briefing Room. I’m sure other reporters saw it, but Guthrie was the only reporter with the chutzpah to ask to handle it.

    Great!! I’d like to talk to that table. Maybe it could convince me.

    BTW, view the questions you ask from my framework for just one second. IF the PDF is a forgery, what would be keeping them from printing it out, slapping a seal on it and handing it to MSNBC lap-dog Guthrie?

  101. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 8:54 pm #

    Garrett: That does NOT apply to elective office.
    Kindly provide the federal statue in question.

    There is no statute that covers Presidential eligibility. Only the Constitution. No requirements for office can be created by statute that exceed those in the Constitution. The same is true of Congress. Statutes for employees do not cover elected officials. Not the President nor members of Congress. Simple legal fact, buddy.

    Again, please read the Constitution. It’s obvious you haven’t.

    Garrett: it was certainly done long before Obama was President and likely long before he was a Senator.I assume you can prove this conjecture?

    Why don’t you prove that someone broke into the archives prior to Obama taking office and inserted one forged slip amongst all the millions of others, because that is what you are claiming? Give me the name of who did it, the date, the method used. In fact, prove to me that it is possible to do that. Go stick a form for Mickey Mouse in then do a FOIA and get it. I dare you….

    As for Obama’s federal student loans, several people at the national records center in Iowa were arrested a couple of years ago for breaking into Obama’s student loan records and some have pled guilty. So he has student loans. As for Ayers parents, sorry, they are cheapskates.

  102. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    Garrett:
    Allow me to point out some inconsistencies and misdirections in your statements.
    1)President Obama didn’t show the short-form. As far as I know nobody officially admitted ever releasing it.

    It was released on fighthesmears, a website used by the campaign to debunk lies told about Obama. Its also where birthers found out he was a dual citizen when he was born. Which the Constitutional scholar Obama actually know didn’t matter.

    <blockquote.2)Only Guthrie saw an actual certified copy. The remaining reporters were given photocopies of said certified copy. And the nation was shown a mangled scan of said certified copy.

    Actually she took a photograph of it at the press conferance, the same one where a World Net Daily reporter saw it and said it was genuine. There was no special treatment of it for mis Guthrie, and she only put the photo on ler lockers twitter feed where it was hard to find, rather than the whitehouse splashing it all over the net like they would if they had shown it to her specially

    <blockquoteP3) HDOH officials admitted released the long-form and posted a link to the WH.gov PDF, but they never “verified” that it was the same document. Not to mention, a forgery could have been placed on the books.

    Suuure they didn’t

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth.

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf

    HONOLULU – The Hawai„i State Health Department recently complied with a request by President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth,
    which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “long form” birth certificate.

    “We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to
    President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawai„i,” Hawai„i
    Health Director Loretta Fuddy said. “I have seen the original records filed at the
    Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the
    department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in
    Hawai„i.”

    On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama’s request, Director Fuddy personally
    witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the
    authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the
    copies.

    President Obama authorized Ms. Corley to pick up the documents. On April 25, 2011,
    Ms. Corley appeared in person at the Hawai„i State Department of Health building in
    Honolulu, paid the requisite fee, and was given the two certified copies, a response
    letter from Director Fuddy to President Obama, and a receipt for payment. (Letter from
    Director Fuddy is attached).

    So, now that your silly lies have been reduced to ashes by the results of what anyone could do with 2 minutes on google and actually going to the HDOH website for once, can we see an apology for wasting Gods given electrons on breathing lies?

  103. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    And yes I cant format anything… :S

  104. avatar
    y_p_w March 21, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    Scientist: 2. Why forge such a document? Suppose someone forget to resgister 28 years before as an 18 year old, so what? No one has ever been prosecuted and the statute of llimitations has long ago run out. If anyone asks, you just say,” I thought I registered, but it’s 28 years ago, so I really don’t remember,” There was no draft anyway, so you can’t even be called a draft dodger, not that that hurt Clinton.

    I got curious and looked up my Selective Service registration a few months ago. Looks like my registration might have been six weeks after my 18th birthday. Maybe it took them that long to process.

    I remember the Selective Service promo by Wolfman Jack that was sampled in this remix of the Depeche Mode version of Route 66. In fact, this sample (starting at 3:18) was probably from about the time Obama would have registered, as he mentions registration for those born in 1961 or 1962.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bemP1_K0yPk

  105. avatar
    y_p_w March 21, 2012 at 8:58 pm #

    Scientist: There is no statute that covers Presidential eligibility. Only the Constitution. No requirements for office can be created by statute that exceed those in the Constitution. The same is true of Congress. Statutes for employees do not cover elected officials. Not the President nor members of Congress. Simple legal fact, buddy.

    Several states tried to institute term limits for members of Congress representing their states. SCOTUS shot that down in the mid-90s.

  106. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 8:59 pm #

    Garrett: True, they are not required to respond to Joe…but wouldn’t Obama want to make him look foolish?

    Joe doesn’t need any help to look foolish; he has a knack for that. Joe could be indicted before March is out. The man is as corruopt as it is hot in Phoenix in July

    Emperor Garrett: BTW, call me a bigot to my face.

    I don’t know about bigot, but you’re a fool. Is that good enough?

  107. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:04 pm #

    There is no statute that covers Presidential eligibility.
    Lol…of course you’re right. I just wanted you to waste time looking for the statute. 😉 The point of interest is that nobody would have a shot at winning if they had not registered for the draft or registered to vote.

    Why don’t you prove that someone broke into the archives prior to Obama taking office and inserted one forged slip amongst all the millions of others
    Obviously if I could I would. Arpaio is trying to find evidence. In the meantime, why don’t you find another document with a two-digit stamp.

    And assuming you are right, which is a big assumption, having student loans doesn’t mean he was registered as Barack Obama Jr. Maybe he had previously registered under a different name? Hmm….

  108. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2012 at 9:07 pm #

    Emperor Garrett:
    Here are some fun facts for reality challenged birther bigots

    BTW, call me a bigot to my face.

    You have a face?

    I think you’re lying.

    Tell conservative, Reagan appointed, former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor that you understand the law better than her.

    She says that President Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States.

    In my experience, many birthers are senseless, hypocritical bigots with obvious political and racial motives.

  109. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:09 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: The point of interest is that nobody would have a shot at winning if they had not registered for the draft or registered to vote.

    The FOIA documents came out AFTER the election. So he had already won even though no one knew whether he had registered or not.

    Emperor Garrett: having student loans doesn’t mean he was registered as Barack Obama Jr. Maybe he had previously registered under a different name? Hmm….

    The name and SSN of the borrower are cross checked with the name and SSN of the draft registration.

    You aren’t having a very good night. But i suspect you are used to that… Birthers haven’t had a very good last 4 years. That’s about 1800 bad nights. I precdict a good 2000 more..

  110. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:09 pm #

    It was released on fighthesmears, a website used by the campaign to debunk lies told about Obama.
    Agreed, the claim was that Obama released it. In reality, a website did. No official verification of ANY kind.

    Actually she took a photograph of it at the press conferance, the same one where a World Net Daily reporter saw it and said it was genuine
    Yes, she did take a picture…I suppose you can prove that the document she took a picture of wasn’t a forgery? And the WND reporter only confirmed that it was a physical birth certificate. I doubt he had his forensic analysis kit with him that day. You guys are great. 🙂

    Suuure they didn’t
    Again, linking to a document is not the same as legal ownership of said document. But they sure fooled you into thinking it is. And, there is obvious evidence of foul play and professionalism on the part of the HDOH. To me it means the same thing as it would mean to you if I say…cuz Dr. Corsi said so.

    So, now that your silly lies have been reduced to ashes by the results of what anyone could do with 2 minutes on google and actually going to the HDOH website for once, can we see an apology for wasting Gods given electrons on breathing lies?
    You SURELY don’t think I was unaware of this info before you “enlightened” me do you?

  111. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: Obviously if I could I would.

    Not my problem/

    Emperor Garrett: Arpaio is trying to find evidence.

    Why didn’t he try to find evidence in all those sexual assault cases he screwed up? He should spend more time doing his own job in Arizona…

  112. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    I don’t know about bigot, but you’re a fool. Is that good enough?
    You flock to the site of a man who calls himself a doctor, but I’m a fool. Good luck with that one. Emperor Garrett says thou are daft!

  113. avatar
    Arthur March 21, 2012 at 9:13 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: BTW, call me a bigot to my face.

    ^ ^
    Oh my, what terrifying ‘wittle boy are you. Here is your face X X
    []
    you are a birther bigot
    [——–]

    Sorry if the likeness appears more intelligent and better looking than the original!

  114. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:13 pm #

    She says that President Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States.
    Her statement had nothing to do with the veracity of Obama’s documents. She simply gave her opinion about what constitutes an A2S1 NBC. She is wrong btw.

    In my experience, many birthers are senseless, hypocritical bigots with obvious political and racial motives.
    Strange, my experience says the same about Obots.

  115. avatar
    Arthur March 21, 2012 at 9:15 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: You flock to the site of a man who calls himself a doctor, but I’m a fool.

    And this from a man who calls himself “Emperor” . . . you’re pathetic.

  116. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 9:16 pm #

    Garrett:
    It’s not anamolous and there is nothing he can say
    Kindly show me another registration with no century digits from the time period in question. PROVE it’s not anomalous. You can claim things all day, doesn’t make them true.

    I can show you a registration with no O in Honolulu. Its the one the Arpio WND squad called genuine.

    Selective Service is not going to respond to an Arizona Sheriff
    True, they are not required to respond to Joe…but wouldn’t Obama want to make him look foolish? Your claim doesn’t pass the logic test. Don’t stop…believin!! Hold on to that fee-lay-eee-en! Woa-oooooo!!

    Obama hasn’t wasted one second of his day on Arpio and there’s no particular reason Obama would care, especially when Arpio did such a fine job making himself look foolish on his own.

    “Uh I’ve got evidence of a crime here but I have no idea how to prosicute it. And the guy that benefitted from it the most is a really good, hardworking man.” <- a sherrif making himself look like an idiot.

    199 courts rulings saying you are an idiot and counting,

  117. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:16 pm #

    The FOIA documents came out AFTER the election. So he had already won even though no one knew whether he had registered or not.
    Pointless. It was a political liability that needed to be addressed, regardless of when people sought the document out.

    The name and SSN of the borrower are cross checked with the name and SSN of the draft registration.
    Let me try one more time, using easy to understand words. Maybe Obama had another name before which had it’s own SSN by which he registered. If he was no longer using that name, he’d need to back-date a registration using his elected name.

    Don’t confuse your confusion with my lack of a point.

  118. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: Sanctorum is of an age where he would have been required to register, I believe. Did he? According to you he can’t be elected if he didn’t, so shouldn’t you and Arpaio check that out too? I mean you said you weren’t a bigot and we know Joe isn’t one, right? So wouldn’t you guys want to be fair and balanced?

  119. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    you are a birther bigot

    Dr. C – I give you permission to give Arthur my email address. Arthur, drop me a line and put your money where your mouth is. I’ll give you my phone number via email.

  120. avatar
    gorefan March 21, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    Garrett: As far as I know nobody officially admitted ever releasing it.

    Except for the state of Hawaii

    “In June 2008, President Obama released his Certification of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “short form” birth certificate. Both documents are legally sufficient evidence of birth in the State of Hawai„i, and both provide the same fundamental information: President Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawai„i at 7:24 p.m. on August 4, 1961, to mother Stanley Ann Dunham and father Barack Hussein Obama.”

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf

  121. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:20 pm #

    And this from a man who calls himself “Emperor” . . . you’re pathetic.
    You aren’t too sharp are you Arthur. That is precisely the reason I call myself Emperor. It is parody and making fun of the ridiculous attempt, by the author of this blog, to seem authoritative concerning anything but the drapery style used in his mother’s basement.

  122. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:23 pm #

    According to you he can’t be elected if he didn’t, so shouldn’t you and Arpaio check that out too?
    Nope, I agreed there is no law preventing it…simply said that they could never win.

  123. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:24 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: Let me try one more time, using easy to understand words. Maybe Obama had another name before which had it’s own SSN by which he registered. If he was no longer using that name, he’d need to back-date a registration using his elected name.

    But his student loans were in the name Barack Obama Jr. (which is how the people broke into the records). And of course his degrees are in that name too, confirmed by Columbia and Harvard. So the registration has to be in that name also or they wouldn’t match.

    This is not hard for normal people.

    Emperor Garrett: Pointless. It was a political liability that needed to be addressed, regardless of when people sought the document out.

    Really? And you know this how? He had already won anyway-there was nothing anyone could do about it. The Democratic-controlled Congress was not going to impeach him over something that happened 30 years before. Even the Republicans aren’t that dumb.
    Bes

  124. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:25 pm #

    “In June 2008, President Obama released his Certification of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “short form” birth certificate. Both documents are legally sufficient evidence of birth in the State of Hawai„i, and both provide the same fundamental information:
    Read closely. They said that Obama released it…not that the HDOH released it to him. And again, a forgery could be on the books in HI, meaning all they released was a forgery. Better yet, they could simply be lying or mistaken.

  125. avatar
    Arthur March 21, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: Dr. C – I give you permission to give Arthur my email address. Arthur, drop me a line and put your money where your mouth is. I’ll give you my phone number via email.

    I say again, you phony pompus prickleberry, who calls his tallywacker “Emperor” because it’s so much larger than his IQ, you are a birther bigot. You are not worth the dust which the rude wind blows in your face.

  126. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:27 pm #

    But his student loans were in the name Barack Obama Jr. (which is how the people broke into the records). And of course his degrees are in that name too, confirmed by Columbia and Harvard. So the registration has to be in that name also or they wouldn’t match.
    Did Harvard and Columbia say he was named BHO or simply that our President went there?

  127. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:27 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: Nope, I agreed there is no law preventing it…simply said that they could never win.

    We don’t know if Sanctorum registered. So according to you, he can’t win. That makes me happy.

    What are your thoughts about Rmoney avoiding the draft by being on a Mormon mission in France? I guess he can’t win either.

    Looks like an Obama landslide…

  128. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:29 pm #

    He had already won anyway-there was nothing anyone could do about it. The Democratic-controlled Congress was not going to impeach him over something that happened 30 years before. Even the Republicans aren’t that dumb.
    OMG…it is painful to force you people to understand logic. He was already elected when the document was released…not when the forgery, if it is one, would have been filed. Catch up.

  129. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:30 pm #

    I say again, you phony pompus prickleberry, who calls his tallywacker “Emperor” because it’s so much larger than his IQ, you are a birther bigot. You are not worth the dust which the rude wind blows in your face.

    Prickleberry…I actually like that. Waiting on your email and subsequent phone call.

  130. avatar
    Arthur March 21, 2012 at 9:33 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: Prickleberry…I actually like that. Waiting on your email and subsequent phone call.

    You’ll like it better when it’s inserted, gently, oh so gently, into your Emperor and Galilean. I say again, little lord tallywacker, you are a birther bigot.

  131. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 9:33 pm #

    Emperor Garrett:
    It was released on fighthesmears, a website used by the campaign to debunk lies told about Obama.
    Agreed, the claim was that Obama released it. In reality, a website did. No official verification of ANY kind.

    So how is releasing it on a website run by Obama not Obama releasing it?

    And there was official verification

    When the birth certificate arrived from the Obama campaign it confirmed his name as the other documents already showed it. Still, we took an extra step: We e-mailed it to the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records, to ask if it was real.

    “It’s a valid Hawaii state birth certificate,” spokesman Janice Okubo told us.

    When the Spokeman for the HDOH confirms something, thats official verification.

    Actually she took a photograph of it at the press conferance, the same one where a World Net Daily reporter saw it and said it was genuine
    Yes, she did take a picture…I suppose you can prove that the document she took a picture of wasn’t a forgery? And the WND reporter only confirmed that it was a physical birth certificate. I doubt he had his forensic analysis kit with him that day. You guys are great.

    Oh so they created 2 different looking forgeries, one very clear looking for the press conferance and one for the website whenre a lot more people would see it. So why would they do such a thing

    Suuure they didn’t
    Again, linking to a document is not the same as legal ownership of said document. But they sure fooled you into thinking it is. And, there is obvious evidence of foul play and professionalism on the part of the HDOH. To me it means the same thing as it would mean to you if I say…cuz Dr. Corsi said so.

    They did a lot more than just link to it. They issued a statement stating it was a true copy of thats in their records and that what was released is the same document that was copied from their records. Theres no hair to split here. And I quoted from both the site and they statement. Only an idiot would try and backtrack from it. You might think you are using the socratic method but there is no gaps here for you to exploit. If you want go to hawaii and argue with them

    Becasue until you get them to change their story then the full faith and credit clause of the US constitution is in effect and you have bubkus.

    So, now that your silly lies have been reduced to ashes by the results of what anyone could do with 2 minutes on google and actually going to the HDOH website for once, can we see an apology for wasting Gods given electrons on breathing lies?
    You SURELY don’t think I was unaware of this info before you “enlightened” me do you?

    Of course you were. YOu are just chosing to ignore the parts of it that disagree with you. Just like birthers ignoring all but 2 sentances of the Minor ruling, especially since the next sentance of the Minor ruling calls you a liar.

    Oh yeah, and you are a Bigot.

  132. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:34 pm #

    OK folks, it’s really simple. Arpaio has provided evidence, namely the missing century digit anomaly, that this document is forged. A proper response would be to provide evidence that it is not forged.

    I’ll be waiting on 1980s era registration cards with a two-digit date. Until then, we’re done here and you’ve provided nothing to the debate.

  133. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: He was already elected when the document was released…not when the forgery, if it is one, would have been filed

    He got his student loans in tthe 1980s so he had to have been already registered by then.

    You are REALLY having a bad night. Get some sleep and come back later.

  134. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

    especially since the next sentance of the Minor ruling calls you a liar.
    Only if you can’t read the difference between the word ‘citizen’ and ‘natural born citizen’. The doubts were whether those born of foreigners were even citizens at all…no question that they were NOT natural born. Ark later answered that question and said such people were citizens from birth…but did NOT hold them to be natural born.

    Spin away lefties.

  135. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 21, 2012 at 9:37 pm #

    Hi, sorry you’re not familiar with searching on eBay. This link will get you to the auction cited in the article. I don’t link to such things in the articles because the links go bad after a while.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=260952994854&nma=true&rt=nc&si=WNvB7hj5NyigAwvqp4LqoRpJ%252Bn4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

    Garrett: You could, I dunno, look at the stupid screenshot in the article.

    While I agree that the screenshot is stupid I don’t agree it proves anything. Maybe they are available. I couldn’t find them searching eBay.

  136. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:37 pm #

    He got his student loans in tthe 1980s so he had to have been already registered by then.
    If he registered fraudulently it would have been 2008.

  137. avatar
    Arthur March 21, 2012 at 9:37 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: I’ll be waiting on 1980s era registration cards with a two-digit date. Until then, we’re done here and you’ve provided nothing to the debate.

    ‘Swounds, show me what thou’lt do.
    Woo’t weep? Woo’t fight? Woo’t fast? Woo’t tear thyself?
    Woo’t drink up eisel, eat a crocodile?
    Nay, an thou’lt mouth,
    I’ll rant as well as thou.

  138. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 9:38 pm #

    Emperor Garrett:
    “In June 2008, President Obama released his Certification of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “short form” birth certificate. Both documents are legally sufficient evidence of birth in the State of Hawai„i, and both provide the same fundamental information:
    Read closely. They said that Obama released it…not that the HDOH released it to him. And again, a forgery could be on the books in HI, meaning all they released was a forgery. Better yet, they could simply be lying or mistaken.

    Where else would he have gotten hos COLB

    (a) they say its his COLB
    (b) Only the HDOH can issue COLBs
    (c) Ergo (that means therefore) They released it to him

    They dont have to spell everything out for thise who are too stupid to pick up the obvious.

  139. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:38 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: Until then, we’re done here and you’ve provided nothing to the debate.

    I guess the clowns are on at the circus you work for, so you gotta go…

  140. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 9:39 pm #

    Thanks Dr. C. I appreciate the actual link.

    Now, have you come up with another registration card with only two digits?

  141. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:40 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: He got his student loans in tthe 1980s so he had to have been already registered by then.If he registered fraudulently it would have been 2008.

    So, you’re saying he registered in 1980 and then registered again fraudulently in 2008?

  142. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2012 at 9:41 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: Arpaio has provided evidence

    And done what with it? Sell a few ebooks to gullible bigots?

  143. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 21, 2012 at 9:42 pm #

    Why are you asking a question here that you could look up for yourself in a couple of minutes? And why if you are raising related issues would you not already know the answer?

    I really don’t understand this unless you are just trying to waste somebody’s time or cast doubt on something that is not in doubt. Perhaps if you explain yourself, I will take you out of moderation.

    In answer to your question, I point you to this Columbia Press Release:

    http://www.college.columbia.edu/news/barack-obama-83-becomes-first-college-alumnus-to-win-presidency

    I’ll leave Harvard as an exercise for you.

    Emperor Garrett: Did Harvard and Columbia say he was named BHO or simply that our President went there?

  144. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2012 at 9:45 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: OMG…it is painful

    No one said making idiotic assertions based on bigoted fantasies would be easy.

  145. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 9:47 pm #

    Emperor Garrett:
    especially since the next sentance of the Minor ruling calls you a liar.
    Only if you can’t read the difference between the word citizen’ and natural born citizen’. The doubts were whether those born of foreigners were even citizens at all…no question that they were NOT natural born. Ark later answered that question and said such people were citizens from birth…but did NOT hold them to be natural born.

    Spin away lefties.

    First the Case is WONG in the chinese fashion Second Justice Gray calls him natural Born, and then calls hin a citizen in different places. Third the dissent complans in 5 different parts that the ruling ensured that Wong Kim Ark could become President of the United states.

    What kink of citizen is eligible to become President of the United states.

    And A natural Born Citizen is a citizen who has been born in the Juristiction. Blacks law dictionary definition

    . The word citizen encombasses both the Natural Born and the Naturalised in American law. Been that way in common law since 1610.

    Emperor Garrett:
    OK folks, it’s really simple. Arpaio has provided evidence, namely the missing century digit anomaly, that this document is forged. A proper response would be to provide evidence that it is not forged.

    I’ll be waiting on 1980s era registration cards with a two-digit date. Until then, we’re done here and you’ve provided nothing to the debate.

    And I’ve provided eficence that the SSN cart Aripo used as a geniune copy was forged. The missing O in Honolulu. I’m waiting on you to provide a 1980s era registration card with a missing O in the title, The proper response would be for you to prove it was not forged by Arpio, since Arpio claimed that was cenuine with this anomaly.

    I’ll be waiting on another SSN card with a missing O. Anytime.

  146. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2012 at 9:48 pm #

    Emperor Garrett: Better yet, they could simply be lying or mistaken.

    Have you ever been accused of a crime without any evidence?

    What kind of low life scum would accuse officials of the state of Hawaii of malfeasance without evidence?

  147. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:50 pm #

    Suranis: What kink of citizen is eligible to become President of the United states.

    I would guess that over the years there have been Presidents with all sorts of kinks.

  148. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 9:52 pm #

    Sorry for my spelling. I’m looking at software to improve my dyslexia

  149. avatar
    Paper March 21, 2012 at 9:53 pm #

    But of course “Doctor” isn’t a playful use of a title for a *conspiracy* website? “Emperor” is parody, but it never crossed your mind that “Doctor” is a bit tongue in cheek?

    Emperor Garrett:
    And this from a man who calls himself “Emperor” . . . you’re pathetic.
    You aren’t too sharp are you Arthur. That is precisely the reason I call myself Emperor. It is parody and making fun of the ridiculous attempt, by the author of this blog, to seem authoritative concerning anything but the drapery style used in his mother’s basement.

  150. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 21, 2012 at 9:58 pm #

    The “L” in “LOL” doesn’t stand for “logical.” I’m sure you understood the context of the question, and certainly everyone here understands that you evaded it.

    That’s not something that I put of with a lot here because it tends to irritate people, and generate a lot of noise in the comments.

    Garrett: 1. Since the document supposedly came from the National Archiives under an FOIA while Bush was still in office. how did the supposed forged document get in there?

    How do any documents make it into the Archives? Someone put it there…lol.

  151. avatar
    Scientist March 21, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    Suranis: Sorry for my spelling. I’m looking at software to improve my dyslexia

    Sorry I hope you weren”t offended. It’s just that “kink of President” caused me to think evil thoughts about William Howard Taft and Millard Fillmore.

  152. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 10:01 pm #

    Doctor Who?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dkTM2ppPPs

  153. avatar
    Rickey March 21, 2012 at 10:05 pm #

    Emperor Garrett:

    Did Harvard and Columbia say he was named BHO or simply that our President went there?

    Here you go. A link to Obama’s article in the March 10, 1983 of Sundial, the weekly newsmagazine at Columbia.

    http://www.politico.com/static/PPM116_obamaessay.html

  154. avatar
    J. Potter March 21, 2012 at 10:05 pm #

    The things you miss when family comes in from out of town! A visit from royalty! Forgot to reset my google alarums after we lost power last night …. there, all squared away. Next time a fairy queen stops by, a little birdie will tell me. 😀

  155. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 10:06 pm #

    Scientist: Sorry I hope you weren”t offended.It’s just that “kink of President” caused me to think evil thoughts about William Howard Taft and Millard Fillmore.

    Actually I typed the apology before your reply appeared so no worries. I actually think your joke was kind of funny 🙂

  156. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 21, 2012 at 10:09 pm #

    1. Robert Gibbs stated at a White House press conference that HE put the short form on the Internet. FactCheck.org is not a blog. You cannot have a Certification of Live Birth and not be born in Hawaii, nor a birth registration of any kind in 1961 unless born in the state. “Live birth” is the key phrase identifying the type of certificate.

    2. Please provide evidence that “only Guthrie” saw the form, or admit that you just made that up.

    Your third point presumes a wildly implausible scenario.

    Garrett: Allow me to point out some inconsistencies and misdirections in your statements.
    1) President Obama didn’t show the short-form. As far as I know nobody officially admitted ever releasing it. FactCheck.org and some other blogs showed it. Also, you can have a short form and not have been born in Hawaii. If his mom or grandmother reported the birth as a home birth it would be registered. That is why we wanted to see the long-form with hospital and Dr. signatures.
    2) Only Guthrie saw an actual certified copy. The remaining reporters were given photocopies of said certified copy. And the nation was shown a mangled scan of said certified copy.
    3) HDOH officials admitted released the long-form and posted a link to the WH.gov PDF, but they never “verified” that it was the same document. Not to mention, a forgery could have been placed on the books.

    Swing and a miss.

  157. avatar
    John Woodman March 21, 2012 at 10:13 pm #

    y_p_w: It was sitting on a table in the White House Briefing Room.I’m sure other reporters saw it, but Guthrie was the only reporter with the chutzpah to ask to handle it.

    Do you have a source for that?

  158. avatar
    Arthur March 21, 2012 at 10:18 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That’s not something that I put of with a lot here because it tends to irritate people, and generate a lot of noise in the comments.

    Dr. C.:

    I apologize for my immature noise concerning what’s-his-name’s tootsie roll.

    (The following is just for Garret, so nobody else listen!) Garret . . . . Garret, I know that I made you feel bad. It was wrong of me to do that. I’m sorry. Words hurt! I promise never to make disparaging remarks about your IQ, your manhood, or your face, again — even if they’re true! And I’ll never call you “birther bigot” again. I’ll let that be self-evident in your bigoted comments. I’m glad we’re friends again!!! Artie

  159. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 10:19 pm #

    Doc he probably is clinging to 338-17.8. Of course that only went into effect in 1982

    [338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

    (b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

    (c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, 1]

    Dr. Conspiracy: You cannot have a Certification of Live Birth and not be born in Hawaii, nor a birth registration of any kind in 1961 unless born in the state.

  160. avatar
    Thrifty March 21, 2012 at 10:32 pm #

    Guys I think with Garett I may have passed some sort of mental anguish event horizon. Birthers are so stupid that it literally hurts. And I don’t mean “literally” in the commonly misused sense of “emphatically”. I mean it is causing me actual physical pain. Nothing severe. More like when a weiner dog bites your toes.

  161. avatar
    Thrifty March 21, 2012 at 10:33 pm #

    Sounds interesting. Do you have a link?

    Suranis: I can show you a registration with no O in Honolulu. Its the one the Arpio WND squad called genuine.

  162. avatar
    Thrifty March 21, 2012 at 10:38 pm #

    I would love to see a Birther who at least had the restraint to stick to ONE conspiracy theory, and ignore the “you must have 2 citizen parents” hogwash.

  163. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 21, 2012 at 10:45 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Guys I think with Garett I may have passed some sort of mental anguish event horizon.Birthers are so stupid that it literally hurts.And I don’t mean “literally” in the commonly misused sense of “emphatically”.I mean it is causing me actual physical pain.Nothing severe.More like when a weiner dog bites your toes.

    With me, it’s more like the sensation of chewing on tin foil while licking a battery.

    I told my brother today about Orly’s threats to sue Democrats and Judges under the RICO statutes, and he couldn’t even speak. Birfer-grade yellow-cake Stupid.

  164. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 10:47 pm #

    Its at the boddom of the ORYR Script evidence thingie

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/57169354/Private-Investigator-Obama-s-Fraudulent-Social-Security-Number-Selective-Service-Registration

    They have about 10 or so difference ssn on the last page and pretty much all the stamps have ink anomalies. And one seems to be missing the front part of the year, just like Obama’s

    Have a look for yourself. its on the last 2 pages.

    Thrifty:
    Sounds interesting.Do you have a link?

  165. avatar
    Arthur March 21, 2012 at 10:50 pm #

    Thrifty: Nothing severe. More like when a weiner dog bites your toes.

    Short-haired or Long-haired? Cuz the short-haired ones are MEAN!

  166. avatar
    Suranis March 21, 2012 at 10:53 pm #

    Ahh that one that has the missing front is actually obamas. have to not post at 3 in the morning. Dosent explain the anolalies on the other cards, and Obamas stank has obciously sod all ink.

  167. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 10:58 pm #

    They have about 10 or so difference ssn on the last page and pretty much all the stamps have ink anomalies. And one seems to be missing the front part of the year, just like Obama’s

    We have the first attempt at providing evidence of ANY kind from your side, and it’s an EPIC fail. You are looking at Obama’s card…it’s one of the several on the page with multiple images. You know..the only one with two digits.

    At least you saw your own mistake. Not sure what other anomalies you think exist. They still don’t explain the two digit date…but keep bailing water…maybe you’ll stay afloat.

  168. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 21, 2012 at 11:00 pm #

    FORMAL CHALLENGE TO DR. C AND ALL POSTERS:

    Provide 1 valid Selective Service reg card from any year in the late 70’s, early 80s…that has a two digit date. Then I will concede that O’s is likely legit.

    Until then, our is the only side that has presented any evidence related to the SS card.

  169. avatar
    y_p_w March 21, 2012 at 11:23 pm #

    John Woodman: y_p_w: It was sitting on a table in the White House Briefing Room.I’m sure other reporters saw it, but Guthrie was the only reporter with the chutzpah to ask to handle it.

    Do you have a source for that?

    There was the WND reporter who claims he saw the actual document. And then got axed for not following the party line.

    As for the table, Guthrie’s pictures show it sitting on a black-finish table.

  170. avatar
    J. Potter March 21, 2012 at 11:24 pm #

    Arthur: Short-haired or Long-haired? Cuz the short-haired ones are MEAN!

    There are long-hair weiners?

  171. avatar
    Thrifty March 21, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

    Yeah but a long haired weiner dog is kind of missing the point.

    J. Potter: There are long-hair weiners?

  172. avatar
    J. Potter March 21, 2012 at 11:40 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Yeah but a long haired weiner dog is kind of missing the point.

    Whew! Thanks for keeping that clean, Thrifty!

    I (intentionally) served up a whopper there. 😉

  173. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 21, 2012 at 11:53 pm #

    I don’t see that your side has presented any evidence of note. I’ll concede right off the bat that the two-digit date is unusual (based on a consultation with an expert). However, proofs that something doesn’t exist within a large domain are very difficult and so for you to say “there are no legitimate two-digit stamps” is an impossible bar. The only way you could present useful evidence would be to examine a very large sampling of stamps and to show that none of them had 2-digit years. I haven’t done the math, but I think a sample size of around 20,000 would give a significant result.

    On the other side it may prove difficult to find another example simply because there aren’t that many examples available. However, a credible effort is underway to find another example, and if one is found, I will report it.

    You were perfectly happy to explain the document’s appearance in official government files under George Bush by saying “LOL.” I think that standard will accommodate the missing date digits too until something better comes along.

    Emperor Garrett: FORMAL CHALLENGE TO DR. C AND ALL POSTERS:

    Provide 1 valid Selective Service reg card from any year in the late 70′s, early 80s…that has a two digit date. Then I will concede that O’s is likely legit.

    Until then, our is the only side that has presented any evidence related to the SS card.

  174. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 22, 2012 at 12:02 am #

    Emperor Garrett: FORMAL CHALLENGE TO DR. C AND ALL POSTERS:
    Provide 1 valid Selective Service reg card from any year in the late 70′s, early 80s…that has a two digit date. Then I will concede that O’s is likely legit.
    Until then, our is the only side that has presented any evidence related to the SS card.

    You’ve got it backwards Your Highness.

    You claim its a forgery…..you prove it. Period.

    We can’t prove the negative.

    And even if this was the only instance in the history of the US Post Office or Postal Service that a two digit year was ever stamped on a document it wouldn’t prove the document was a forgery. It could just as easily be proof that this was the only time in the history of the US Post Office or Postal Service that the year slug on a cancellation stamp broke.

    Might it be a forgery? Anything is possible. It’s not very probable given what we know but if you really want to press this it’s up to you to prove its a forgery.

  175. avatar
    y_p_w March 22, 2012 at 12:07 am #

    Emperor Garrett: BTW, view the questions you ask from my framework for just one second. IF the PDF is a forgery, what would be keeping them from printing it out, slapping a seal on it and handing it to MSNBC lap-dog Guthrie?

    But then I’d have to think with a mind that it has to be a fake and that I have to force the mental gymnastics to come to a conclusion that it’s a fake.

    Perhaps. However, the PDF shows signs of deep compression and reduction in resolution to make it compact enough for a color file under 500KB.

    There are some problems with the way Guthrie uploaded the photos. I’m sure her phone’s camera had a pretty high resolution. However, she uploaded it to Lockerz, which reduces the resolution to a standard size, an the result can and in this case does have “jaggies” where there are diagonal lines across pixel rows/columns. I’m sure that the original photo is probably one with a lot more detail than we see online, and I’d love to see it just for the greater detail.

    So right now I’ve got the closeup picture (http://lockerz.com/s/96540721) sitting side by side with a downloaded copy of the long form PDF. The Lockerz photo is default-sized at the native resolution of my laptop’s screen. I can resize the PDF in Adobe Reader to approximately match the font size of the Lockerz photo.

    What I see is pretty clear. The basketweave background on the PDF is really noisy and a lot of the lines look fatter or thinner than each other. The font on the PDF is almost excessively dark, like a scan that was set for highest contrast even with a loss of detail. I see white halos around the black type and lines on the PDF wherever they would otherwise touch any green. In particular, the headers are really blocky – sort of what it looks like with a low-res scan or a FAX transmission (which is actually what my kid’s birth certificates look like because they were all produced from a scan of the original document in a database). In particular “Age of Father” has the little holes in the A and the upper hole in the g completely black.

    What I see from the Guthrie closeup photo shows better details. It’s a little bit dark, but the details are there. All the basketweave background looks like consistently uniform and sharply defined rectangles. The fonts show variation in strike pressure and inking like I’d expect from a manual typewriter. I can clearly see the header saying “Birthplace” in the photo, while in the PDF it’s got pixelation artifact that makes it look like “Birthploce”. “Age of Father” looks correct with light spaces in the A and g. And crowning touch is that the black type shows no white halos like on the PDF.

    You’d have to go to the bigger picture, but the two Aug -8 1961 stamps have a consistent shade, while the PDF scan renders it as a combination of mostly gray with black. The PDF renders the last one in black on the left stamp, and 1, 9, and 1 in block on the right stamp.

    There is no way that this PDF could have been used to generate a document with considerably higher resolution, without the white halos, with a consistent basketweave background, and with lighter and more detailed fonts. I’ve heard that claim before, but there’s no way this PDF could have been printed out and turned into that piece of paper that Guthrie photographed.

  176. avatar
    Arthur March 22, 2012 at 12:10 am #

    J. Potter: There are long-hair weiners?

    True story . . .

    Two foreign nuns have just arrived in the United States and one says to the other, “I hear that the people of this country actually eat dogs.”

    “Odd,” her companion replies, “but if we shall live in America, we must do as the Americans do.”

    Nodding emphatically, the Mother Superior points to a hot dog vendor and they both walk toward the cart.

    “Two dogs, please,” says one.

    The vendor is only too pleased to oblige and wraps both hot dogs in foil and hands them over the counter. Excited, the nuns hurry over to a bench and begin to unwrap their “dogs.”

    The Mother Superior is first to open hers. She begins to blush and then, staring at it for a moment, leans over to the other nun and whispers cautiously, “What part did you get?”

  177. avatar
    Thrifty March 22, 2012 at 12:13 am #

    An old stamp was worn and didn’t impress the first two digits. How is that so damn difficult to comprehend?

    Oh wait, you’re not actually looking for answers. You’re just slinging mud and ad hominem.

    Emperor Garrett: At least you saw your own mistake. Not sure what other anomalies you think exist. They still don’t explain the two digit date…but keep bailing water…maybe you’ll stay afloat.

  178. avatar
    J. Potter March 22, 2012 at 12:25 am #

    OK, I admit I have not thoroughly explored the Selective Service Card meme, because 1) it’s stupid and 2) I have better things to do than read birther poo in depth, so I skip ahead to the funny.

    But I must ask, who, has examined this physical card? Is all this hullaballoo over a digital image? Are other images available? Are birthers just taking birthers word for it that this card exists?

    (heehee)

    If I missed some relevant portion of the “press conference” video, or have failed to fully explore the YouTubes, or whatever, see #2 above. I am a PDF Madness specialist Obot. We don’t get out much.

  179. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 12:25 am #

    I don’t see that your side has presented any evidence of note.
    Sorry…the two digit date IS evidence.

    You were perfectly happy to explain the document’s appearance in official government files under George Bush by saying “LOL.”
    No, I was perfectly happy answering the question with a logical answer…someone put it there. Then I laughed at the question.

  180. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 12:26 am #

    You’ve got it backwards Your Highness.

    You claim its a forgery…..you prove it. Period.

    We can’t prove the negative.
    Wrong…Obama claims it is legit and we have shown evidence to the contrary. The ball is in his, and by extension your, court.

  181. avatar
    Thrifty March 22, 2012 at 12:29 am #

    It’s only important that you see an original when the the document in question is exculpatory for Obama. If it points to him doing something illegal, you’re free to take someone else’s word for it.

    J. Potter: But I must ask, who, has examined this physical card? Is all this hullaballoo over a digital image? Are other images available? Are birthers just taking birthers word for it that this card exists?

  182. avatar
    Paper March 22, 2012 at 12:52 am #

    No you wouldn’t, not really. I can testify that it is not all it’s cracked up to be. Unless you want to experience what Emerson meant by “a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”

    Thrifty:
    I would love to see a Birther who at least had the restraint to stick to ONE conspiracy theory, and ignore the “you must have 2 citizen parents” hogwash.

  183. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 1:04 am #

    But then I’d have to think with a mind that it has to be a fake and that I have to force the mental gymnastics to come to a conclusion that it’s a fake.
    You mean like the mental gymnastics it takes to ignore the many questions about Obama’s past? The gymnastics of his out of state SSN being normal…the gymnastics of his SS reg card being questionable…the gymnastics of no private investigators being able to find documents at either Honolulu hospital. Those type of gymnastics?

    Perhaps. However, the PDF shows signs of deep compression and reduction in resolution to make it compact enough for a color file under 500KB.
    I challenge you to create a control document and recreate the effects. Good luck…you’ll need it. I can show you 100s of control docs, scanned every which way under the Sun, optimized every which way under the Sun…doesn’t happen.

    but the two Aug -8 1961 stamps have a consistent shade, while the PDF scan renders it as a combination of mostly gray with black.
    Actually, those dates are green in the PDF.

    There is no way that this PDF could have been used to generate a document with considerably higher resolution, without the white halos, with a consistent basketweave background, and with lighter and more detailed fonts.
    False, if I could attach a file I would show you several control documents I printed via the WH PDF…look even better than Guthrie’s pic…sorry.

  184. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2012 at 1:05 am #

    I’m sorry, where did Barack Obama say that the selective service application presented by the Arizona band of birthers is “legit.” Perhaps you meant “an Obama campaign supporter?” Oops, already used that one.

    I deny that the posse showed any evidence that it is not legit, nor that anyone connected with the investigation is qualified to say so. You have not made a case that requires refutation.

    Emperor Garrett: Wrong…Obama claims it is legit and we have shown evidence to the contrary. The ball is in his, and by extension your, court.

  185. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 1:08 am #

    It’s only important that you see an original when the the document in question is exculpatory for Obama.
    Not so…Arpaio has asked to see the original. I would love for it to be released. I suppose you will join in the call for the release of said document then?

    I’ll be the first to admit it’s legit if he produces it and it checks out.

  186. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 1:10 am #

    I would love to see a Birther who at least had the restraint to stick to ONE conspiracy theory
    I’m just responding to the comments that are made. I’d LOVE to stick to the SS reg card.

    BTW, did you all know that the 2-digit date is NOT the only anomaly on that card? Anyone know what the other glaring problem is?

  187. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2012 at 1:10 am #

    Excuse me. What is the name of the private investigator that inquired at Hawaii hospitals? How was the investigation done? Where is the report of who he talked to or what documents he examined?

    Didn’t think so.

    Emperor Garrett: the gymnastics of no private investigators being able to find documents at either Honolulu hospital.

  188. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 1:13 am #

    I’m sorry, where did Barack Obama say that the selective service application presented by the Arizona band of birthers is “legit.” Perhaps you meant “an Obama campaign supporter?” Oops, already used that one.
    It came from the National Archives via an FOIA request. Which means that O submitted it…unless you are now claiming a felony to avoid fraud. So…yes, Obama has claimed that to be valid by inference.

    [Actually, it didn’t come from the National Archives. Why don’t you take a little time and get your story straight and try to come up with a coherent narrative of how Obama could have faked the document and gotten it into government records. Doc]

  189. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2012 at 1:13 am #

    Cell phone cameras give crappy results, so that’s not saying much. However, I bet you can’t get something better than THIS from the White House PDF.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/BirthCertificateHighResolution.jpg

    Didn’t think so.

    Emperor Garrett: False, if I could attach a file I would show you several control documents I printed via the WH PDF…look even better than Guthrie’s pic…sorry.

  190. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 1:14 am #

    Excuse me. What is the name of the private investigator that inquired at Hawaii hospitals? How was the investigation done? Where is the report of who he talked to or what documents he examined?
    I thought you were the all knowing Dr. Conspiracy!? I have to tell you the facts about ‘birther’ issues? Come now. Do some research, when you find it…we’ll discuss.

    [I already know the answer. You’re lying. Doc.]

  191. avatar
    G March 22, 2012 at 1:14 am #

    Nope.

    Mere idle speculation in order to cast aspersions is NOT evidence at all. That is all Sheriff Joe’s dog & pony show did. The Cold Case Cowards have gone out of their way not to make any ACTUAL accusations.

    Government documents are assumed legit on their face. The ball is ALWAYS in the hands of the ACCUSER to prove accusations of fraud. The assumption of legitimacy is the default position and doesn’t require doing anything to defend itself at all.

    Cry and throw a tantrum about this all you want, but that is how US Law has always worked. Tough cookies for you. But hey, keep flogging your ficticious fantasies. It is all you’ve got…

    Emperor Garrett: Wrong…Obama claims it is legit and we have shown evidence to the contrary. The ball is in his, and by extension your, court.

  192. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 1:15 am #

    Cell phone cameras give crappy results, so that’s not saying much. However, I bet you can’t get something better than THIS from the White House PDF
    You mean better than a black and white image with no security paper that STILL contains kerning!? Again, give me the ability to post a pic and I will show you all. Better yet, I’ll email it…will you post it?

    [There is no kerning on the White House PDF. There is crummy and irregular horizontal spacing. Kerning involves a process of adjusting space so that letter pairs look better. The typing on the birth certificate is all over the place and not consistent with kerning, but it is consistent with wear. Add to that the fact that a typewriter font in word processing never has variable spacing. It’s always perfect. So the irregular spacing is actually proof that it’s not a word processor product. And there are remnants of the security paper showing through (gutter left).

    You can email to “admin” at this web site domain. I’ll either post it, or publish a hyperlink to it. Of course you could just upload it somewhere and put a hyperlink in your comment. Doc]

  193. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 1:17 am #

    [I already know the answer. You’re lying. Doc.]
    If you say so…I guess the affidavits I saw were forgeries then. 😉 Whatever helps you sleep.

    [You’re still lying. Doc]

  194. avatar
    Emperor Garrett March 22, 2012 at 1:18 am #

    Dr. C – Am I getting to you….why the need to edit and add to my post? Be a big boy and post a reply like a civilized moderator.

    [I rarely edit comments (except to correct spelling); however, there is one special situation where I do and that is when a poster adds a large number of comments in a short period of time (I see 6 more in the moderation queue!) that are likely to provoke a large number of responses. By replying to your message in place, I reduce the need for others to reply, and reduce the clutter. However, you have a point. I won’t edit the rest of your comments. I’ll just delete them. Try again tomorrow. Doc.]

  195. avatar
    G March 22, 2012 at 1:21 am #

    The incredible twisting and turning and gymnastic stretching is ALL on the side of those making up accusations and wild speculation – e.g. you BIRTHERS.

    The default position is the assumption that the person who was elected president is who he says he is and that his documents, which ALL corraborate his story, are all legit. It requires NO effort to accept the default position at all. Just as it requires no effort to realize that water is wet. In other words, the default position remains fairly straightforward and self-evident.

    The onus remains on you sad losers to put forward actual evidence that refutes the existing record. Worthless speculation at picking at nits and screaming “possible fraud” doesn’t cut it anywhere in the real world.

    But hey, keep screaming on your comfy keyboard in virtual land, while the President continues to run the country unabated in reality…and likely will for another term as well.

    Emperor Garrett: You mean like the mental gymnastics it takes to ignore the many questions about Obama’s past? The gymnastics of his out of state SSN being normal…the gymnastics of his SS reg card being questionable…the gymnastics of no private investigators being able to find documents at either Honolulu hospital. Those type of gymnastics?

  196. avatar
    John Woodman March 22, 2012 at 1:29 am #

    Emperor Garrett: I challenge you to create a control document and recreate the effects. Good luck…you’ll need it. I can show you 100s of control docs, scanned every which way under the Sun, optimized every which way under the Sun…doesn’t happen.

    This is just asinine.

    The major “anomalies” in the PDF — such as (off the top of my head) the layers, the pixel-duplicated letters, the variation in pixel size in the background, the ability to move things around separately, and so forth — are KNOWN artifacts of optimization, with real-life examples of the EXACT SAME THING pulled off of scanned and optimized files google books produced in my book.

    Let’s see YOU hand-duplicate a file that shows EVERY “anomaly” in Obama’s PDF — and then explain exactly why you created each and every one.

    Aside from most of those things being utterly insane — except from the point of view of optimization, where they all have a clear optimization function — it’d take you weeks. Ron Polland attempted it, taking (in fact) weeks to produce even a poor imitation.

    Virtually all of this rubbish was factually debunked six months before Arpaio’s press conference. Which I believe was six months minus one day before the Arpaio posse/Jerome Corsi ebook went on sale.

  197. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2012 at 1:29 am #

    First, I am assuming that Selective Service imaged or microfilmed the registration cards years ago, rather than filing tens of millions of them in filing cabinets. Would you not agree that this is likely? I doubt the original exists.

    But let’s assume for moment that the original exists and that Selective Service made it available: Who’s going to authenticate it? No one on the cold case posse has any credentials as a forensic document examiner and I wouldn’t trust any of WorldNetDaily’s volunteers. You’d never trust anyone the government came up with.

    Perhaps you could suggest a scenario, but I can’t think of any under which you would declare that document “checks out”.

    Emperor Garrett: Not so…Arpaio has asked to see the original. I would love for it to be released. I suppose you will join in the call for the release of said document then?

    I’ll be the first to admit it’s legit if he produces it and it checks out.

  198. avatar
    John Woodman March 22, 2012 at 1:32 am #

    Emperor Garrett: Actually, those dates are green in the PDF.

    Oh, and incidentally — can you explain why the forger supposedly made the date stamps GREEN?

    You’re the forger. You’re going to forge some date stamps. You can pick any color out of the rainbow.

    Why do you make them GREEN, of all colors? Is there any government office anywhere in the United States that stamps their documents with green date and certification stamps?

    Hint: “He must’ve wanted to get caught” is NOT the right answer.

    Second hint: The obvious fact that the file was scanned and optimized explains the green date stamps perfectly.