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Canceling the Cold Case Posse

The birthers (and to a lesser extent the anti-birthers) approach the Cold Case Posse’s claims that Barack Obama’s Selective Service System is a forgery at a disadvantage. The difficulty is that they are introduced to the topic along with a set of “facts,” a pre-packaged way of interpreting those facts, exhibits with lines and arrows suggesting how to look at them, and a conclusion. No one who looks at the Cold Case Posse report has the opportunity to see the evidence with a fresh viewpoint without a pre-manufactured context.

The purpose of this article is not to refute the Cold Case Posse’s report, but to give folks the tools to look at the evidence independently with perhaps a fresh viewpoint.

I collect postage stamps, some on envelopes. As a result, I have a number of old covers (that’s what stamp collectors call them) from the 1980’s and a few of them are hand-canceled. So let me share what I have. But first, let’s look at an exhibit from the Cold Case Posse report, their Exhibit G. The mark on the left is Obama’s registration and the one on the right is a from some other form.

image

Cold Case Posse Exhibit G

You notice that some lines have been added to show that the placement of  the “80” on Obama’s form is too far to the right compared to the “authentic one.” But look again. the “authentic one” isn’t centered. The CCP is prejudicing you to believe that a badly-centered date is normal. Below is one from my collection centered the way it obviously should be. See how the “8” is perfectly centered under the day digit, just like the Obama registration stamp. The CCP, on the other hand, clearly has the “8” not centered—far to the left of where it belongs. Does this mean that the CCP “authentic image” is a fake? By their standards, I guess it is. In fact the date slugs are mechanically inserted into the stamp and don’t have to be perfectly centered.

scan0005

Properly-centered year slug

Oh, and did you notice that Exhibit G shows a straight-on photo of the “authentic stamp” but shoots the Obama cancellation from an angle? Here’s a perfect circle superimposed on the image. The slight bulge intensifies the effect of the “80” being down and to the right.

image

In a straight-on shot, rotated to horizontal, the “80” looks 100% normal to me.

image

OK, next Cold Case Posse “fact.” The forger had to make a date stamp from a “2008” stamp (inverting the “08”) because one can’t buy a real “1980” date stamp. Check out this next picture:

image

That’s a rubber stamp made from letters I had in my desk drawer. Pretty close without even looking for something better. Of course, I would have to take a knife and shave off some to get the numbers closer together, but that wouldn’t be a problem for someone with the resources to hack into the Selective Service System computer and plant a fake registration and image.

Now let’s look at things from another angle: rotate the Cold Case Posse exhibit upside down.

image

Details from Cold Case Posse Exhibit G, rotated

Is an upside down “8” the same as a right-side up one? Not really. Notice that the “8” on the sample (left) is clearly top-heavy. While the eye is trained to see both loops the same, when it’s inverted, the difference jumps out. You’ll have to judge for yourself if the Obama “8” is really inverted. I don’t think it is. While this image is on screen, ask yourself the question, why is it not OK for the Obama stamp to have the “19” missing, but it’s OK for the “genuine” one to have the “O” in Honolulu missing?

Now let’s ask the question of whether poor inking can explain the missing year on the Obama registration. Take a look at a scan of a cancellation from my collection:

scan0002

Black and white scan

Do  you see part of the year missing? ROFL. I scanned this as a “black and white document.” Look at the color version. Not only is part of the year, the entire cancellation on the left is missing!scan0001

Color scan

These images are all done with the default settings. The image of the Obama registration is a B&W image, probably from a government imaging system that only does black and white.

Here’s another with bits missing, which is even more surprising because this is philatelic mail that usually gets stamped with care:

scan0006

Bits missing – cover from American Philatelic Society

Now here’s a curious cancel from New York. I have 8 of these on several envelopes from the same post office. Do you see a year? I don’t see one on any of them.

scan0003

Consistent missing year from New York

And finally, take a look at this one just to appreciate that the real world is messy.

scan0004

The real world is messy

I hope what the reader will appreciate from these brief samples is that postal hand cancels commonly have parts missing. Black and white imaging can lose things that aren’t dark. Lines added to images can mislead the eye. Rubber date stamp numbers can be bought out of a catalog (I even found genuine USPS ones on eBay).

When someone presents pre-digested evidence, one has to step back and ask if there are other ways of looking at things.

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178 Responses to Canceling the Cold Case Posse

  1. avatar
    donna April 2, 2012 at 5:21 pm #

    doc: you are ONE INTERESTING HOMBRE…… REALLY

    lol

    between your background, interests, collections and sources, i can’t keep up

    i don’t have ANYTHING INTERESTING in my desk drawers let alone ANYTHING USEFUL

    i bet i could top you, though, with gadgets in my cooking and baking utensil drawers

    you are a JOY TO READ

    GRAZIE MILLE

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 2, 2012 at 5:41 pm #

    The curse of having things that prove useful is that you never want to get rid of anything.

    donna: i bet i could top you, though, with gadgets in my cooking and baking utensil drawers

  3. avatar
    Mary Brown April 2, 2012 at 5:44 pm #

    No wonder they cannot abide by you. You are logical and they are-.

  4. avatar
    JPotter April 2, 2012 at 5:56 pm #

    “When someone presents pre-digested evidence, one has to step back and ask if there are other ways of looking at things.”

    Could go deeper here …. one tip-off is a lack of a true reconstruction. If someone is presenting a conclusion, but is unable to present a reconstruction of a logical sequence of events or processes that resulted in the results in question … then they haven’t presented a complete case. If all that is presented are loose ends w/o structure (“Look at this!” “Look at that!”), all you’re getting is observation. A beginning and end with no middle. A floor and ceiling w/o walls. In short, it’s all misdirection, a con, intended to get you to swallow the presenter’s desired conslusion.

    Guess what disciplines operate on this principles? Politics and advertising!

    You may be able to think of others.

    Hmmm. WND as a political advertising agency. Arpaio as political infotainer.

    Infomercialist?*

    ___________

    * What is that job title…? They don’t go by “huckster” anymore do they? “Demagogue” is too grandiose. “Barker” insults more honest barkers. “Pitchman” isn’t dirty enough. Not like he pushing a ShamWow or OxiClean.

  5. avatar
    y_p_w April 2, 2012 at 6:11 pm #

    I like the last one. It looks a lot like the exit stamp on my passport from Melbourne Airport in Australia. Whoever stamped it didn’t have a steady hand.

    I sort of miss the hand cancelation for mail. It’s not done much anymore, unless we’re talking packages. Certified mail receipts aren’t usually hand-canceled any more. They’re typically run through a dot-matrix printer with the amounts and a numerical code. I think some contract post offices don’t have some of the equipment and still do hand-cancels.

    I remember specifically asking if a piece of mail could be hand canceled, and was told they weren’t allowed to do it. I do remember having a post card hand canceled without mailing it. I was visiting Bryce Canyon National Park, and had a stamp of Bryce Canyon from an airmail postage series of national parks. The clerk at the contract postal unit at Ruby’s Inn (Bryce, UT) was more than happy to do it for me, and took some care making sure it was an even stamp.

  6. avatar
    traderjack April 2, 2012 at 7:02 pm #

    Everything can be explained , except the knife slash on the Obama certification.
    See that dark line there between the H and the O,

    That was caused when the exacto knive slipped off of the 2 in the 2008 in the date stamp and cut off the O and left a deep slash there between the H and the O

    this caused the stamp to be thrown away the next day and the letter to be cancelled with a better stamp which is why the later ones shown on the essay did not show the damaged date on the stampl

    How about them apples.

  7. avatar
    G April 2, 2012 at 7:15 pm #

    I would say that you have a fertile imagination.

    traderjack: How about them apples.

  8. avatar
    nbc April 2, 2012 at 7:17 pm #

    traderjack: Everything can be explained , except the knife slash on the Obama certification.
    See that dark line there between the H and the O,

    Well I am glad that you admit that everything else can be explained. But honestly, a dark line… You’re hilarious..

    You have nothing…

  9. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 2, 2012 at 7:23 pm #

    So you admit that all of the rest of the CCP selective service claim is BS?

    That’s super because your “knife slash” isn’t on the stamp. It’s a mark on the form which is easy to see if you look at the whole form instead of the cropped version in Exhibit g See:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Selective-Service-USPO-Detail_2.jpg.png

    Or if you don’t trust me, you can see it nice and clear in the the Corsi/Zullo book as “Exhibit A”.

    It’s all solved! Hooray!

    But seriously, knife slash? Good grief.

    traderjack: Everything can be explained , except the knife slash on the Obama certification.
    See that dark line there between the H and the O,

  10. avatar
    Majority Will April 2, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

    G: I would say that you have a fertile imagination.

    traderjack: How about them apples.

    Fertile because it has an endless supply of steaming manure.

  11. avatar
    G April 2, 2012 at 7:29 pm #

    Thank you for completing the implied analogy… 🙂

    Majority Will: Fertile because it has an endless supply of steaming manure.

  12. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 2, 2012 at 7:37 pm #

    nbc: Well I am glad that you admit that everything else can be explained. But honestly, a dark line… You’re hilarious..

    You have nothing…

    Not so. He has an imaginary X-acto knife wielded by a fictional forger in a plot that requires rending space-time to create a line that can be explained in dozens of ways that don’t involve forgery. Because he also has a pathological need to believe the President is illegitimate in the face of any and all concrete evidence. So: implausible theories, imaginary devices, partisan bias, inability to abandon disproven ideas… TJ has quite a lot. None of it good, mind you.

    And more than a little odd for a guy who has read Shakespeare. You’d think he would have learned about liars with a grudge trying to destroy the reputations of good people, like Don John does in Much Ado About Nothing. Which, fittingly, is exactly what Birtherism really is.

  13. avatar
    vizibits April 2, 2012 at 7:50 pm #

    Methinks the good Doctor is melting down and committing malpractice rather than admitting the obvious.

    Pathetic.

  14. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 2, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    vizibits:
    Methinks the good Doctor is melting down and committing malpractice rather than admitting the obvious.

    Pathetic.

    Why do you hate America?

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 2, 2012 at 8:01 pm #

    Did you have something specific in mind, or are you just farting in my general direction?

    vizibits: Methinks the good Doctor is melting down and committing malpractice rather than admitting the obvious.

  16. avatar
    Norbrook April 2, 2012 at 8:03 pm #

    vizibits:
    Methinks the good Doctor is melting down and committing malpractice rather than admitting the obvious.

    Pathetic.

    Anyone who has ever had to use rubber stamps could readily tell you the same thing Doc is telling you. I

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 2, 2012 at 8:08 pm #

    I was about to say something, but realized that it’s not true. I was going to as, “When was the last time you ever saw a birther check another birther’s results?”

    However, WorldNetDaily has gone on record saying that various fake Kenyan birth certificates are fakes. (Of course, WND may not actually be birthers, but pretending.) And sometimes there are things that get rejected by The Free Republic forum.

    This selective service thing has got to be the biggest nonsense in the world, given when and where that form came from (Selective Service System via FOIA before Obama was elected.) Do you seriously think the Bush administration would sit on a loaded gun pointed at Obama a month before the election and not pull the trigger? The Cold Case Posse argument almost debunks itself.

    So why do some birthers buy some thing and not others? That’s one of the interesting questions.

  18. avatar
    Thrifty April 2, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

    Your second image is clearly a forgery. There is no such place as “FORT GE RGE” Clearly someone cut up name slugs from several other cities.

  19. avatar
    Thrifty April 2, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    I literally LOL’d at that. Usually I just roll my eyes.

    traderjack: the O and left a deep slash there between the H and the O

    this caused the stamp to be thrown away the next day and the letter to be cancelled with a better stamp which is why the later ones shown on the essay did not show the damaged date on the stampl

    How about them apples.

  20. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter April 2, 2012 at 8:30 pm #

    So why do some birthers buy some thing and not others? That’s one of the interesting questions.

    Slick salesmen???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWCkD8MSRsU&feature=related

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 2, 2012 at 8:41 pm #

    Hey. Don’t you know by now that I never publish stuff without sources?

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB182/arm-isc/20050119.pdf

    Thrifty: Your second image is clearly a forgery. There is no such place as “FORT GE RGE” Clearly someone cut up name slugs from several other cities.

  22. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 2, 2012 at 8:42 pm #

    traderjack: How about them apples.

    Your apples have gone bad jack.

    Look at the original full image. The mark is the clerk’s initial(s). Find any site with lots of cards and that’s what you will see in that corner of the box.

    Was this a late April Fool’s joke or……were you really serious?

  23. avatar
    vizibits April 2, 2012 at 8:43 pm #

    You big dummies. The cold case posse produced examples of stamps from the same post office from the days preceding and the days following. None are missing the two digits missing from the prez’s.

    I’ll take the diligence and skill of the cold case posse over you drama queens any day.

    I’ll also admit the remote possibility that the LFBC is not a forgery.
    Do any of you blowhards have the intellectual integrity to admit it might be?

  24. avatar
    Scientist April 2, 2012 at 8:50 pm #

    vizbitz-Prove to me that the draft registration document is not a birther concoction from the get-go. It came from a birther web site, after all. And don’t give me the supposed letter-birthers could have faked that too.

    Birthers are liars so if they say they got it through an FOIA, the odds are that’s a lie.

    I go with the odds. Mom lived in Hawaii-baby born in Hawaii. Birther web site-birther fraud. It works for me.

  25. avatar
    gorefan April 2, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    So do you think the two Honolulu cancellations are from the same stamps?

    They appear to be from the same P.O. station and both are missing the first “O” and possibly the last “L” in Honolulu.

  26. avatar
    Scientist April 2, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    vizibits: I’ll also admit the remote possibility that the LFBC is not a forgery.
    Do any of you blowhards have the intellectual integrity to admit it might be?

    The information on it is 100% correct and verified. But the form itself was reproduced by a process and all processes of reproduction are imperfect.

    Look for my treatise on the Mona Lisa on this site.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 2, 2012 at 9:00 pm #

    Where is the complete set they examined published so that I see for myself?

    vizibits: You big dummies. The cold case posse produced examples of stamps from the same post office from the days preceding and the days following. None are missing the two digits missing from the prez’s.

  28. avatar
    Scientist April 2, 2012 at 9:03 pm #

    By the way, it is a verifiable fact that Obama registered for the draft back in the 1980s since he received federal student loans (people were convicted of accessing the records without authorization) and you cannot get such loans if you didn’t register (and they check). So, if the form is a forgery then it was a forgery created by birthers.

  29. avatar
    J. Potter April 2, 2012 at 9:04 pm #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: So why do some birthers buy some thing and not others?

    All about biased and trusted sources. If you insist on trusting people who’re saying what you want to hear, keep your wallet in a front pocket, your belt buckled tight, and remain seated with your back to an exterior wall at all times.

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 2, 2012 at 9:05 pm #

    “Might be” is a funny phrase. I admit that the Sun might be exploding tomorrow. I might be a program in some computer and the world as I know it is a simulation. So in that vein, the long form might be a forgery. But a forgery so wildly implausible that it might as well be impossible as far as I’m concerned.

    vizibits: Do any of you blowhards have the intellectual integrity to admit it might be?

  31. avatar
    nbc April 2, 2012 at 9:05 pm #

    vizibits: I’ll also admit the remote possibility that the LFBC is not a forgery.
    Do any of you blowhards have the intellectual integrity to admit it might be?

    There is no evidence that it is, but anything is possible. Given that the DOH has certified the data, given that all the data is internally consistent, there is just nothing that suggests that the LFBC is a forgery. Even the Cold Case Posse could not reach that conclusion as it looked at a highly compressed PDF and ignored photographs by Savannah Guthrie.

    As to the SSS form, again, all data are consistent. The form was received and entered into the system close to another SSS registration filed in Hawaii. All there is is a stamp which fails to show two digits but shows the other two digits exactly where they would be expected.

    Such non-issues.

    But I do understand why you trust the Cold Case Posse, made of ‘experts’ and ‘volunteers’ who have failed to take the time to truly get to the bottom of these issues, and instead focus on compressed copies. That those involved were strongly anti-Obama does not help much either but it may help explain the confirmation biases. Dr C has found several instances where the Cold Case Posse failed to considered far more reasonable scenarios or just plainly rejected them without taking any efforts to provide a foundation for the rejection. Their unfamiliarity with the Mixed Raster Content compression is just one aspect that totally undermines their LFBC analysis.

    There is no credible scenario of forgery that takes into consideration all known facts. That by itself makes it so incredible…

    Such clowns…

  32. avatar
    Majority Will April 2, 2012 at 9:08 pm #

    vizibits: I’ll take the diligence and skill of the cold case posse

    Who is Mike Zullo? Is he a famous detective?

    There’s no record of his qualifications or background anywhere.

    Are you Mike Zullo?

  33. avatar
    J. Potter April 2, 2012 at 9:10 pm #

    vizibits: You big dummies.

    The classic start to every rational argument!

    vizibits: drama queens

    … going to have to switch to a heavier, more stable element …. iron just isn’t cutting it!

    vizibits: I’ll also admit the remote possibility that the LFBC is not a forgery.

    Eaux, look, a deftly-executed concern/bias combo! Don’t see that every day!

    vizibits: The cold case posse produced examples of stamps from the same post office from the days preceding and the days following.

    Now THAT is quite a find! Which PO was it? why didn’t they show’em off? Some pretty sweet evidence they would be! How did they find them w/o traveling to, or even contacting, Hawaii?

  34. avatar
    J. Potter April 2, 2012 at 9:12 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: But a forgery so wildly implausible that it might as well be impossible as far as I’m concerned.

    If birthers had any appreciation for probability, they might be mistaken for rational. Nor would they be birthin’.

    Lottery sales would also take a huge hit.

  35. avatar
    john April 2, 2012 at 9:16 pm #

    Through investigative analysis, the Cold Case Posse was able to duplicate Obama’s Selective Service stamp exactly. Does this mean forgery? Perhaps so…and hense PROBABLE CAUSE but not 100% Proof. That’s is why Arpaio wants the original draft card that the Selective Service has to establish that 100% proof. Unfortunately, the Selective Service will not cooperate which leads to conclude that Arpaio may in fact be right about his analysis.

  36. avatar
    Scientist April 2, 2012 at 9:21 pm #

    J. Potter: If birthers had any appreciation for probability, they might be mistaken for rational. Nor would they be birthin’.
    Lottery sales would also take a huge hit.

    The odds that Stanley Ann Dunham travelled to Kenya make Powerball look promising. After all, there were 3 winners last week.

  37. avatar
    vizibits April 2, 2012 at 9:46 pm #

    Potter asks about the date stamps:

    “Now THAT is quite a find! Which PO was it? why didn’t they show’em off? Some pretty sweet evidence they would be! How did they find them w/o traveling to, or even contacting, Hawaii?:

    Look at the video, (at about 1:20 in the timeline):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHAM3hRI8_Y

    You are all cordially invited to get a clue.

  38. avatar
    Sef April 2, 2012 at 9:54 pm #

    The CCP investigation is an “open” investigation in the Richard Stallman sense.

  39. avatar
    J. Potter April 2, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    vizibits: You are all cordially invited to get a clue.

    Impressions, not the stamps themselves, and you got the date wrong. Silly birther, how do you know these impressions were made in 1980? Because they say ‘1980’?How does this prove that all mail was stamped identically. You’re gonna need to produce some hardware, some employee affidavits, some contemporary SS reg cards …. you imply you have an object, and all you have are shadows. C’mon, viziwhatzits.

  40. avatar
    Stanislaw April 2, 2012 at 10:14 pm #

    john:
    Through investigative analysis, the Cold Case Posse was able to duplicate Obama’s Selective Service stamp exactly.Does this mean forgery? Perhaps so…and hense PROBABLE CAUSE but not 100% Proof.

    Quite possibly the dumbest argument made by a birther all month (I know it’s still early but geez). By this logic, if I dress up as someone else and re-enact a bank robbery, that re-enactment is probable cause to arrest the person that I dressed up as. Because, you know, logic and stuff.

    You birthers aren’t even trying anymore.

  41. avatar
    Scientist April 2, 2012 at 10:21 pm #

    vizibits: You are all cordially invited to get a clue.

    Tell me the source of the document the Posse analyzed and the chain of custody.

    Thanks

  42. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 2, 2012 at 10:25 pm #

    john: Through investigative analysis, the Cold Case Posse was able to duplicate Obama’s Selective Service stamp exactly. Does this mean forgery? Perhaps so…and hense PROBABLE CAUSE but not 100% Proof. That’s is why Arpaio wants the original draft card that the Selective Service has to establish that 100% proof. Unfortunately, the Selective Service will not cooperate which leads to conclude that Arpaio may in fact be right about his analysis.

    Leaving aside the integrity of the investigative analysis can you tell us exactly what crime, under Arizona law, Arpaio (his posse or whoever) is investigating as it regards Obama’s Selective Service registration?

  43. avatar
    insomnia April 2, 2012 at 10:26 pm #

    john:
    Through investigative analysis, the Cold Case Posse was able to duplicate Obama’s Selective Service stamp exactly.Does this mean forgery? Perhaps so…and hense PROBABLE CAUSE but not 100% Proof.That’s is why Arpaio wants the original draft card that the Selective Service has to establish that 100% proof.Unfortunately, the Selective Service will not cooperate which leads to conclude that Arpaio may in fact be right about his analysis.

    Some people can counterfeit money. So by your reasoning there is probable cause that all the money in your wallet is counterfeit. Please send it to me and I will verify it for you. I will let you know what I find at a later date….

  44. avatar
    john April 2, 2012 at 10:31 pm #

    Candidate identification fraud to the citizens of Maricopa County, AR. If Obama Selective Service is forged it raises very serious concerns on why Obama violated federal law so long ago. Perhaps Obama was not a citizen?

  45. avatar
    Thrifty April 2, 2012 at 10:59 pm #

    A forged Selective Service card would not misrepresent Obama’s identity. It is not used for identification or in the determination of eligibility. Furthermore, even if the Selective Service card were forged, that does not provide evidence that he is not a citizen. What you are suggesting is like saying that if a man robbed a bank, he should be tried for robbing a convenience store. I am not a lawter, but “he violated one law, so he probably violated another” probably won’t hold up in court.

    john:
    Candidate identification fraud to the citizens of Maricopa County, AR.If Obama Selective Service is forged it raises very serious concerns on why Obama violated federal law so long ago.Perhaps Obama was not a citizen?

  46. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 2, 2012 at 11:14 pm #

    john: Candidate identification fraud to the citizens of Maricopa County, AR.

    I am not aware of any such crime in Arizona. Can you cite a specific law?

    Are you aware of any candidate – ever, anywere – that used his draft registration card (not his draft card) for identification?

    And, for future reference, the abbreviation is AZ not AR.

  47. avatar
    Paper April 2, 2012 at 11:22 pm #

    Brilliant!

  48. avatar
    Whatever4 April 2, 2012 at 11:59 pm #

    john:
    Through investigative analysis, the Cold Case Posse was able to duplicate Obama’s Selective Service stamp exactly.Does this mean forgery? Perhaps so…and hense PROBABLE CAUSE but not 100% Proof.That’s is why Arpaio wants the original draft card that the Selective Service has to establish that 100% proof.Unfortunately, the Selective Service will not cooperate which leads to conclude that Arpaio may in fact be right about his analysis.

    Uh no, that’s POSSIBLE cause. Probable cause is enough facts that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the claim or charge is true. Merely being able to duplicate something in some manner doesn’t mean that’s the only way the document could have been produced.

    Not to mention that Arpaio doesn’t have the authority to investigate federal crimes, and a federal agency doesn’t have to answer threaty letters from states. Arpaio should have put in a proper FOIA request 6 months ago.

  49. avatar
    richCares April 3, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    john, john, john the posse scanned a pdf file that they downloaded from the internet and they call it a forgery, that is very silly, the term for what they did is called scamming, it was succesful with you.(doen’t speak highly of you, hit that paypal)

  50. avatar
    Jamese777 April 3, 2012 at 12:24 am #

    john:
    Candidate identification fraud to the citizens of Maricopa County, AR.If Obama Selective Service is forged it raises very serious concerns on why Obama violated federal law so long ago.Perhaps Obama was not a citizen?

    In order to get on the ballot in Arizona in 2008, Barack Obama signed a notarized form of the state of Arizona attesting to the fact that he is a “natural born citizen of the United States.”
    Barack Obama signed that form in late November of 2007. If that statement was fraudulent, anyone could have filed civil or criminal complaint against him over the last four and a half years. No one has.

    http://moniquemonicat.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/arizona-election-nomination-papers-barack-obama-signed-statement-he-is-a-natural-born-citizen2.pdf

  51. avatar
    richCares April 3, 2012 at 12:35 am #

    Neither Sheriff Joe nor Zullo will ever appear in a court on this issue, however let us make believe Zullo appears before a judge with his story of scanning an internet pdf copy and that shows it is forgery. Right after that, Obama’s lawyer walks up to the judge and hands him a certified copy of Obama’s Birth Certificate. Case closed, Birthers lose, poor john! Birthers are totally unaware how silly the birther issue is.

  52. avatar
    katahdin April 3, 2012 at 1:42 am #

    The SS registration form was actually released in response to a FOIA request in 2008. The Bush Administration still controlled the executive branch and all its agencies at that time. Perhaps you would care to explain why the Bush Administration would go out of its way to participate in a coverup for the Democratic nominee for president?

    john:
    Candidate identification fraud to the citizens of Maricopa County, AR.If Obama Selective Service is forged it raises very serious concerns on why Obama violated federal law so long ago.Perhaps Obama was not a citizen?

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 3, 2012 at 2:12 am #

    Thank you! I have been looking all over for that.

    Jamese777: Barack Obama signed that form in late November of 2007.

  54. avatar
    Lupin April 3, 2012 at 5:46 am #

    john: Candidate identification fraud to the citizens of Maricopa County, AR. If Obama Selective Service is forged it raises very serious concerns on why Obama violated federal law so long ago. Perhaps Obama was not a citizen?

    Obama is going to be reelected in a landslide in in February 2012 expect the FBI to come knocking. They know where you live, you seditious imbecile.

  55. avatar
    TheEuropean April 3, 2012 at 8:21 am #

    Majority Will: Who is Mike Zullo? Is he a famous detective?

    There’s no record of his qualifications or background anywhere.

    Are you Mike Zullo?

    Has anyone here info on Mike Zullo ? All I know is that he worked as a car salesman for the last 20 years. When exactly and where has he been a “detective” ? He seems not to be old enough for a career before he sold cars.

    Looks like an impostor to me.

  56. avatar
    bovril April 3, 2012 at 8:38 am #

    The only qualifications that Zullo has is that he relishes the part of Corsi fist-puppet.

    Having said that, having gone through the whole mind destroying video plus the QnA ones from “the Church on the Green, I am beginning to think Corsi will start to regret having him as a front muppet…

    Zullo is rapidly devolving into a complete Birfoon and is beginning to go off the WND script and add in even more and even loonier discredited cack.

    During his dribbling diatribe he has started to dip….nay THROW himself into Polariks’ insanity of how EVERY photo of the President as a child/young man is a fake.

    This may be why we see Corsi practically welded to his and Arpaio’s hip recently

    I see much popcorn consumption ahead

  57. avatar
    Northland10 April 3, 2012 at 9:15 am #

    I thought it was, they cannot reproduce it so it is a forgery. Now, it is, they can reproduce it so it could be a forgery.

    john:
    Through investigative analysis, the Cold Case Posse was able to duplicate Obama’s Selective Service stamp exactly.Does this mean forgery? Perhaps so…and hense PROBABLE CAUSE but not 100% Proof.That’s is why Arpaio wants the original draft card that the Selective Service has to establish that 100% proof.Unfortunately, the Selective Service will not cooperate which leads to conclude that Arpaio may in fact be right about his analysis.

  58. avatar
    JPotter April 3, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    Northland10: they cannot reproduce it so it is a forgery.

    Yes …. I do miss that illogic … we don’t know what we’re talking about, so it must be forgery!

    The unknown is skeery. It’s either a work of the devil or a divine miracle. Time for that trial by fire.

    Now before you get all excited and point out that PDFs don’t burn, what’s goign to happen when the birthers throw their monitor into the fire? PDFs do burn, see? 😉

    “We can imitated it, so it must be forgery” is also stupid, but not as much fun.

  59. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 3, 2012 at 10:49 am #

    TheEuropean: Has anyone here info on Mike Zullo ? All I know is that he worked as a car salesman for the last 20 years. When exactly and where has he been a “detective” ? He seems not to be old enough for a career before he sold cars.
    Looks like an impostor to me.

    On one of the sheriff’s documents there is a short bio. I can’t find it right at the moment but as I recall it says he was a police officer in New Jersey and then a “privatge detective” there before he moved to Arizona. He has been a posse member for a number of years.

    His father apparently owned a car dealership in the Phoenix area and he ran an internet based car purchasing operation.

  60. avatar
    JPotter April 3, 2012 at 11:09 am #

    CarlOrcas: He has been a posse member for a number of years.

    The “posse” predates Arpaio’s birtherism, or Zullo has been on other posses?

  61. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 3, 2012 at 11:30 am #

    JPotter: The “posse” predates Arpaio’s birtherism, or Zullo has been on other posses?

    There are a number of posses and they go back decades….long before Arpaio. Search and rescue, lake patrol and the Sun City posses are among them.

    The Cold Case Posse was created before Obama and birtherism but I forget when.

  62. avatar
    JPotter April 3, 2012 at 11:33 am #

    Oh! You meant real posses!

    Good of Zullo to be involved….I hope. Will have to look up the cold case posse, see if they do anything legitimate …. or if it’s just Arpaio dirt-diggin’ crew.

  63. avatar
    bovril April 3, 2012 at 12:00 pm #

    One wonder why the “Cold Case Posse” isn’t investigating any of the over 400 “cold” sexual assault cases that the Shuurif couldn’t be bothered checking out…?

  64. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett April 3, 2012 at 1:11 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So why do some birthers buy some thing and not others? That’s one of the interesting questions.

    Well, I’ve always figured that there’s some careful picking of friends going on. Some people may be too out there for WND to hang their hats with.

    Another thing is the general technicality of things. Most people won’t understand all the gee gaws and ‘if this, then this’ about a thick report, or lengthy article, about technical scanner specs and the dissection of a birth certificate, and when you start arguing that A, B, and C are false, or misleading, they can come back and say oh no they’re not, and no one is willing to wade through all that and come to the conclusion that maybe, as much as they’d like to think Obama’s ineligible, that the matter of the technical thing is being handled by incompetents or liars.

    On the other hand, a birth certificate either did or did not come from Kenya, and can be checked on the official level by Kenyan officials, who could confirm it does exist, or does not exist.*

    In the first case, you can write possibly hundreds of articles that won’t be revealed as rotten fish in such a way that your more critically minded readers will start to realize something smells funny, whereas you might only get a few before Kenya comes to call.

    * Admittedly, this has not stopped birthers from saying that Hawaii’s backing up the short and long form BCs is fraudulent, so either I’m being overly simplistic, or WND fears the wrath of Kenya more than Hawaii.

  65. avatar
    nbc April 3, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

    J. Edward Tremlett: * Admittedly, this has not stopped birthers from saying that Hawaii’s backing up the short and long form BCs is fraudulent, so either I’m being overly simplistic, or WND fears the wrath of Kenya more than Hawaii.

    But there is no internally consistent explanation as to how Hawaii’s contributions are fraudulent.

    And the facts showing Obama born on US soil are internally consistent… A strong indicator of their truthfulness. Which is why birthers seldomly want to look at the full picture.

  66. avatar
    bovril April 3, 2012 at 1:41 pm #

    It’s really, really simple, and has nothing to do with BC’s or SSN’s or Photoshop or any of the other memes in Birferstan except in a pathetic attempt to cloak the real issue.

    In their minds of these scum it is real obvious

    There’s an uppity nig#er Democrat in the White House

    That’s it, end of story and I am SO looking forward to them being burned at the election

    Now, I do NOT include in Birferstan those on the right who have strong ideological concerns, legitimate concerns on federal over reach, worries around how the government as a whole over the last 15-20 years has reached ever further into peoples lifes that is acceptable.

    I talk about the active Birthers, bigots to the core….

  67. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 3, 2012 at 1:52 pm #

    bovril:
    One wonder why the “Cold Case Posse” isn’t investigating any of the over 400 “cold” sexual assault cases that the Shuurif couldn’t be bothered checking out…?

    Maybe because Sheriff Joe committed half of them?

  68. avatar
    JPotter April 3, 2012 at 2:02 pm #

    nbc: And the facts showing Obama born on US soil are internally consistent… A strong indicator of their truthfulness.

    An excellent way of putting it! There’s a narrative. The birther memes are random, unconnected attempts to nibble around the edges of the Obama narrative. Birther have yet to—are unable to—provide an alternative narrative….because there’s no story there. A bunch of fluff being whipped up by independent fabricators. like a crowdsourced novel with no central editor!

    Several wannbe editors tho. 😉

  69. avatar
    Graham Shevlin April 3, 2012 at 2:04 pm #

    I have an elementary question: what legal framework entitled Sheriff Arpaio to create and perpetuate a Cold Case Posse in the first place? Can I create my own Cold Case Posse here in Texas?

  70. avatar
    bovril April 3, 2012 at 2:10 pm #

    Graham,

    Arizona has the posse functionality in its state law, started out with Search and Rescue and the like but has been expanded massively by folks like Arpaio as a way to build empires for free………

  71. avatar
    Obsolete April 3, 2012 at 2:33 pm #

    john: Unfortunately, the Selective Service will not cooperate which leads to conclude that Arpaio may in fact be right about his analysis.

    The Selective Service DID respond and told Sheriff Joe that they had no reason to doubt Obama’s form as authentic.
    Why don’t you believe them? Why don’t you believe Hawaii? Why won’t Sheriff Joe go to the FBI with any proof of forgery as the Selective Service suggested?

    Let me guess- EVERYONE in Hawaii, the FBI, The Selective Service, Congress, the media, etc. are ALL IN ON IT!
    Right, John?

  72. avatar
    y_p_w April 3, 2012 at 2:44 pm #

    Graham Shevlin: I have an elementary question: what legal framework entitled Sheriff Arpaio to create and perpetuate a Cold Case Posse in the first place? Can I create my own Cold Case Posse here in Texas?

    It’s a bit vague, but county sheriffs in Arizona have the right to form volunteer posses.

    http://www.azleg.gov/search/oop/qfullhit.asp?CiWebHitsFile=/ars/11/00441.htm&CiRestriction=posse

    D. The sheriff, in the execution of the duties prescribed in this section, may request the aid of volunteer posse and reserve organizations located in the county.

    I’m pretty sure that Sheriff Joe has taken this to a completely different level. I think there’s a reason why some people are calling it the “Clown Case Posse”.

  73. avatar
    El Diablo Negro April 3, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    y_p_w: I’m pretty sure that Sheriff Joe has taken this to a completely different level. I think there’s a reason why some people are calling it the “Clown Case Posse”.

    I am reminded of some fellows calling themselves ICP (Insane Clown Posse), I will also call this new group ICP (Insane Case Posse). Because it is.

  74. avatar
    G April 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm #

    Also, their initials, CCP, is only one letter removed from the Russian designation for the former Soviet Union – CCCP…

    …just sayin’… 😉

    Hmmm… probably explains why they are spending so much time with online Pravda and trying to appeal to Russian sources… 😉

    El Diablo Negro: y_p_w: I’m pretty sure that Sheriff Joe has taken this to a completely different level. I think there’s a reason why some people are calling it the “Clown Case Posse”.
    I am reminded of some fellows calling themselves ICP (Insane Clown Posse), I will also call this new group ICP (Insane Case Posse). Because it is.

  75. avatar
    clestes April 3, 2012 at 4:26 pm #

    Knife slash?? jack, you are really reaching here, dude. I realize that birthers can’t abide logic, facts or anything resembling the real world, but that is beyond ridiculous.

    Face it, you guys have nothing and if you are giving money to either Orly or the Cold Case Posse or anyone else who asks you for bucks to further their efforts at proving the president ineligible to hold office, you are a being taken for a ride.

    You would do better to spend it buying lottery tickets where the odds are 10 million to 1 that you will win anything. At least there you have some chance of winning something.

  76. avatar
    Dave B. April 3, 2012 at 4:26 pm #

    So what I’m wondering is what exactly brought a couple of mustachioed Jersey boys from the same neck of the woods together in this mess?

  77. avatar
    BillTheCat April 3, 2012 at 4:36 pm #

    Oh dear, seems as though the Sherriff may be heading for a bit of trouble:

    http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/breaking-doj-cuts-off-negotiations-with-sheriff-joe?ref=fpb

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy! 😀

  78. avatar
    Arthur April 3, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    Here’s an update on the Dept. of Justice’s investigation of Arpaio:

    “BREAKING: DOJ Cuts Off Negotiations With Sheriff Joe Arpaio

    “The Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division has cut off negotiations with Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio and said his recent actions are driving the U.S. ‘closer to pursuing judicial remedies.’ Arpaio had claimed he was cooperating with the probe into alleged civil rights violations back in February.

    “‘We believe that you are wasting time and not negotiating in good faith,’ Deputy Assistant Attorney General Roy Austin wrote in a letter to Arpaio’s lawyer obtained by TPM. ‘Your tactics have required DOJ to squander valuable time and resources.'”

  79. avatar
    JPotter April 3, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    Dave B.: So what I’m wondering is what exactly brought a couple of mustachioed Jersey boys from the same neck of the woods together in this mess?

    Gots ta pick where the pickins’ good!

  80. avatar
    RuhRoh April 3, 2012 at 5:43 pm #

    Here’s a copy of the letter from DOJ to Arpaio’s lawyer: http://www.scribd.com/doc/87861470/ResponsetoJSH04032012

  81. avatar
    JPotter April 3, 2012 at 5:44 pm #

    Arthur: “‘We believe that you are wasting time and not negotiating in good faith,’ Deputy Assistant Attorney General Roy Austin wrote in a letter to Arpaio’s lawyer obtained by TPM. ‘Your tactics have required DOJ to squander valuable time and resources.’”

    Fire up the shredders! Oh, who am I kidding, only an idiot would have waited until the stall tactics failed. Only an idiot.

  82. avatar
    y_p_w April 3, 2012 at 5:55 pm #

    Arthur: Here’s an update on the Dept. of Justice’s investigation of Arpaio:
    “BREAKING: DOJ Cuts Off Negotiations With Sheriff Joe Arpaio

    Lovely. Here’s a copy of the letter:

    http://www.azcentral.com/kpnx/pdf/mcso-response-doj.pdf

    They mention it was sent by email and that their flight leaves at 5 PM EST. They don’t give a date, but it sounds like today.

    I wonder what’s going down. Maybe a small army of FBI agents and US Marshals going into the MCSO en masse to arrest him? I remember hearing about Sheriff Joe having an appearance in a large city in Maricopa County, and the local police brought in police as “protection” against threats. Of course what it showed is that Joe had a small department that was easily numbered by a city police department.

  83. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 3, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    y_p_w: I wonder what’s going down. Maybe a small army of FBI agents and US Marshals going into the MCSO en masse to arrest him?

    This is the civil suit. No arrests. They’re simply telling him to get off his butt or they’re going to initiate a suit that could end up with a court running his department.

  84. avatar
    Arthur April 3, 2012 at 6:38 pm #

    CarlOrcas: This is the civil suit. No arrests. They’re simply telling him to get off his butt or they’re going to initiate a suit that could end up with a court running his department.

    And that possibility turns a mild mannered sheriff into TENACIOUS JOE, a semi-super hero, with supernatural powers of indignation. To whit:

    “Appointment of an outside monitor essentially usurps the powers and duties of
    an elected Sheriff and transfers them to a person or group of persons selected by
    the federal government. Every policy decision, every operation, every new
    program in the jails and in enforcement, virtually everything would have to be
    approved by the monitor, nullifying the authority of the elected Sheriff and
    eviscerating the will of the citizens of Maricopa County.

    “I am the constitutionally and legitimately elected Sheriff and I absolutely refuse
    to surrender my responsibility to the federal government. And so to the Obama
    administration, who is attempting to strong arm me into submission only for its
    political gain, I say, This will not happen, not on my watch!’”

    NOT ON MY WATCH! Thank you, Tenacious Joe, thank you.

  85. avatar
    BillTheCat April 3, 2012 at 6:47 pm #

    Good luck with that Mister Tin Star!

    This will be the final straw for the DoJ. He was warned. Now he and his department are going to go down. Arpaio is TOAST.

    This is shaping up to be a great month!

  86. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 3, 2012 at 6:50 pm #

    Arthur: NOT ON MY WATCH! Thank you, Tenacious Joe, thank you.

    Arpaio will huff and puff and maybe even lay down on the floor and stomp his feet but, in the end, he will get with the program.

  87. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 3, 2012 at 6:52 pm #

    BillTheCat: Arpaio is TOAST

    Don’t butter your toast before it pops up.

    Arpaio will play this to the hilt but he will eventually fold. He’ll martyr himself and tell us he’s doing it for the department, the people of Maricopa County, blah, blah, blah.

  88. avatar
    y_p_w April 3, 2012 at 7:00 pm #

    CarlOrcas: This is the civil suit. No arrests. They’re simply telling him to get off his butt or they’re going to initiate a suit that could end up with a court running his department.

    I sort of got the feeling, but the letter seemed to say that they were coming immediately to get him.

    Still – it would be interesting what would happen if federal law enforcement comes into his offices to serve him with papers. I was hoping for something completely oddball, such as the times I’ve heard of local police getting involved in pissing contests with the local sheriff’s department by pulling over their deputies for “traffic violations”.

    However, I’m really wondering what would happen if the feds wanted to come and arrest him. Would the deputies stick up for Sheriff Joe and risk violent confrontation with the feds? They’re likely well armed, although I could imagine that the feds are pretty well armed to. There’s apparently no love lost between Joe and the area police departments, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they might even agree to aid in such an arrest.

  89. avatar
    G April 3, 2012 at 7:51 pm #

    Yeah, that seems to be the clear intent of how Sheriff Joe has been trying to setup and play this whole thing – the “martyr” angle.

    One of the interesting tidbits from the DOJ letter we just saw is a date mentioned of March 1st, in which the Sherrif’s lawyer was originally scheduled to meet with the DOJ to hammer out the previous agreement terms… a date which he abruptly cancelled on Feb 27th and then delayed rescheduling for 2 more weeks.

    I wonder if there is any coincidence to Apraio’s lawyer cancelling their planned March 1st meeting and the Sherriff using that same date to try to turn the topic instead to his public WND-backed Dog & Pony show…

    No wonder Arpaio is only using Vattelvision media on his “press conferences” from now on. Can’t have the media asking any more of those “pesky” questions about whether he is just trying to distract from a REAL investigation into his own misdoings now, can he?…

    CarlOrcas: Don’t butter your toast before it pops up. Arpaio will play this to the hilt but he will eventually fold. He’ll martyr himself and tell us he’s doing it for the department, the people of Maricopa County, blah, blah, blah.

  90. avatar
    Keith April 3, 2012 at 8:01 pm #

    I’m telling you he’s working on his exit strategy and auditioning for gigs at WND and FauxNews.

  91. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 3, 2012 at 9:23 pm #

    y_p_w: I sort of got the feeling, but the letter seemed to say that they were coming immediately to get him.

    My impression is they were scheduled to come out and sign a deal but – surprise, surprise – Arpaio backed out.

    They may come out anyway if they are really prepared to file a case. One of the lawyers can tell us but I suspect they will initiate a suit in District Court in Phoenix.

    y_p_w: Still – it would be interesting what would happen if federal law enforcement comes into his offices to serve him with papers.

    A civil suit would be served on Arpaio’s outside lawyer or the County Attorney.

    If they ever proceed with a criminal case that’s where it would get interesting. At this point there has never been a target letter issued to anyone in the sheriff’s office.

  92. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 3, 2012 at 9:25 pm #

    G: Yeah, that seems to be the clear intent of how Sheriff Joe has been trying to setup and play this whole thing – the “martyr” angle.

    He’s probably got inmates at tent city working on a large cross right now.

  93. avatar
    Majority Will April 3, 2012 at 10:07 pm #

    Arpaio is “America’s Next Cop Model”

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/04/mcso_deputies_find_six_illegal.php

  94. avatar
    Arthur April 4, 2012 at 9:05 am #

    Tenacious Joe will not be intimidated:

    “Based on interviews WND conducted with insiders in Hillary Clinton’s 2008 campaign, Sheriff Joe Arpaio has decided to expand the scope of his law enforcement investigation into President Obama’s eligibility to include evidence and affidavits documenting alleged criminal activity by the Obama campaign in the 2008 Democratic Party primary race.

    “Hollywood film producer Bettina Viviano and Hollywood-based digital photographer Michele Thomas have given Arpaio’s investigators the names of dozens of Hillary Clinton supporters willing to come forward with evidence and affidavits. Among their claims is that the Clintons were the first to charge Obama is not a natural born citizen as required by Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution and that his birth certificate is a forgery.”

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/04/sheriff-joe-expands-obama-law.html

  95. avatar
    JPotter April 4, 2012 at 9:29 am #

    Arthur: Tenacious Joe will not be intimidated:

    The long arm of the PUMA stretches out from beyond the grave…is Mara Zebest on the list? 😉

    O’s thugs performed all this harrassment in Maricopa County, right?

  96. avatar
    Scientist April 4, 2012 at 9:33 am #

    Arthur: Hollywood film producer Bettina Viviano and Hollywood-based digital photographer Michele Thomas have given Arpaio’s investigators the names of dozens of Hillary Clinton supporters willing to come forward with evidence and affidavits.

    Evidence? So some PUMA will say, “There were rumors about X or Y”? That and $ 3 will get you coffee at your local Starbucks.

  97. avatar
    FREEDOMFIGHTERANDREPORTER April 4, 2012 at 11:57 am #

    FIRST THEY LAUGH AT YOU

    THEN THEY IGNORE YOU

    THEN THEY ATTACK YOU

    THEN YOU WIN!!

    INVESTIGATION THE TRUTH ABOUT OBAMA’S BIRTH

    THERE IS SO MUCH INFORMATION MISSING FROM OTHER SOURCES THAT WOULD CLEAR THIS MATTER UP IMMEDIATELY AND THE PRESIDENT THINKS THE LAW DOES NOT APPLY TO HIM. I SAY ITS MISSING BECAUSE IT PROVES THAT HE IS SOMEONE OTHER THAN HE SAYS HE IS.

    IN HIS CASE, THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE PROVIDED IS NOT ENOUGH, PHONY OR NOT.BECAUSE HE SPENT MORE THAN 2 MILLION FIGHTING THE RELEASE OF THE CERTIFICATE AND TWO YEARS.

    NOW HE MUST BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD.

    FREEDOMFIGHTER

  98. avatar
    Arthur April 4, 2012 at 12:00 pm #

    FREEDOMFIGHTERANDREPORTER: FIRST THEY LAUGH AT YOU
    THEN THEY IGNORE YOU
    THEN THEY ATTACK YOU
    THEN OBAMA WINS. AGAIN!!

    FIFY

  99. avatar
    JPotter April 4, 2012 at 12:04 pm #

    FREEDOMFIGHTERANDREPORTER: I SAY ITS MISSING BECAUSE IT PROVES THAT HE IS SOMEONE OTHER THAN HE SAYS HE IS.

    And I say your caps lock key is stuck.

    While we’re saying things wished for but unproved, I’ll say my houise just got a new roof.

    Oh, right, it’s not effective unless ….

    MY HOUSE JUST GOT A NEW ROOF.

  100. avatar
    clestes April 4, 2012 at 12:13 pm #

    I think Sheriff Joe’s time has run out. These are serious allegations he is facing, even if it is in AZ, which we know is currently being run by the crazies. But taking a look at the demographics in AZ, and the recall of Pearce, hummmm…. me thinks that Joe might be just a tad worried.

  101. avatar
    clestes April 4, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    What the hell are you talking about FREEDOMFIGHTER?

    What missing information specifically are you referring to?

  102. avatar
    BillTheCat April 4, 2012 at 12:38 pm #

    FREEDOMFIGHTERANDREPORTER: FIRST THEY LAUGH AT YOUTHEN THEY IGNORE YOUTHEN THEY ATTACK YOU

    I think we’ll stick to laughing at you.

  103. avatar
    Predicto April 4, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

    FREEDOMFIGHTERANDREPORTER: FIRST THEY LAUGH AT YOUTHEN THEY IGNORE YOUTHEN THEY ATTACK YOUTHEN YOU WIN!!INVESTIGATION THE TRUTH ABOUT OBAMA’S BIRTHTHERE IS SO MUCH

    I seem to be permanently stuck in the laughing at you stage.

  104. avatar
    Scientist April 4, 2012 at 12:46 pm #

    Actually, concerning the birthers it went:
    ignore
    attack
    laugh

  105. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2012 at 12:46 pm #

    FREEDOMFIGHTERANDREPORTER: THERE IS SO MUCH INFORMATION MISSING FROM OTHER SOURCES THAT WOULD CLEAR THIS MATTER UP IMMEDIATELY AND THE PRESIDENT THINKS THE LAW DOES NOT APPLY TO HIM. I SAY ITS MISSING BECAUSE IT PROVES THAT HE IS SOMEONE OTHER THAN HE SAYS HE IS.

    If the information is missing how do you know what it shows?

    FREEDOMFIGHTERANDREPORTER: NOW HE MUST BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD.

    Why? No President or Presidential candidate has ever provided as much information as he has.

  106. avatar
    Northland10 April 4, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

    He wants the information proving what he already believes. Mr all caps can accept no substitute.

    clestes:
    What the hell are you talking about FREEDOMFIGHTER?

    What missing information specifically are you referring to?

  107. avatar
    nbc April 4, 2012 at 1:43 pm #

    FREEDOMFIGHTERANDREPORTER: THEN YOU WIN!!

    OMG another armchair ‘freedom fighter’… Poorly informed, content free… Yep… We’ve got ourselves another one…

  108. avatar
    JPotter April 4, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

    Information must be missing, as information he wants to see has not been found. This can be a problem when you decide to work backwards from a conclusion. Even worse when all available information refutes the selected conslusion. Existing information must be declared forgery, and non-existing information must be forged to supported the desired conclusion.

    Have birthers made any allegations of forgery?
    Have birthers forged anything?

  109. avatar
    nbc April 4, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

    Information can be missing when the communication channel is too noisy and the recipient cannot effectively determine the content of the information. When the communication channel is full of myths, hearsay, speculation, it may be hard for some people to apply reason and logic to distill the data into its essential components.

    While the present ‘freedom fighter’ personality accepts the birth certificate, he/she insists that more information is needed since the President is rumored to have spent $2M dollars on the eligibility issue. Of course, the latter assertion is made without any real evidence and merely repeats similarly unfounded speculations by third parties. That our ‘freedom fighter’ is unable to filter the communications, leads to an instance where the resulting information content is low.

    Unable to see the big picture, or perhaps unwilling to do so, our friend ignores the internal consistency of the data which all support President Obama’s birth on US soil, which makes him, a natural-born citizen.

    It starts with the presence of his father in Hawaii all the way up to his birth, which eliminates the possibility that his mother traveled with his father to Kenya. Combine this with the cost of travel and the poor finances of Obama’s family and one comes to understand that such a trip is unlikely. When finally combined with INS data showing that no citizen/alien left the US for Kenya and only one alien and no US citizen came to the US, in the timeframe of Obama’s birth and you see a picture emerge in which Obama’s parents were most likely in Hawaii.

    Thus, when we are faced with the birth records that indicate indeed, as certified by the attending physician, that President Obama was born in a Hawaiian hospital, and that his birth was registered within a few days of his birth. His birth records are fully consistent with other birth records of those days and birth announcements in newspapers, show that indeed, the birth records were filed promptly.

    Given the consistency of the evidence, it becomes extremely implausible that President Obama, somehow, was born somewhere outside the United States.

    But some people, unable to accept these facts, insist that there must be something else…

  110. avatar
    clestes April 4, 2012 at 2:45 pm #

    I think FREEDOMFIGHTER must one of those that needs meds and has no health insurance because I can’t make heads or tails out of what he is saying.

    Missing information as in the non-existent Kenya BC or what??

    Jesus, every part of the president’s life has been documented from the birth announcment in the paper, the photos of him as a cute rascally boy sitting on his grandpa’s shoulders, people who remember him as a baby, people who remember him as a boy, schoolmates, teachers, pics of him on basketball teams, college photos, videos, books HE wrote about himself. The list goes on and on.

    What is missing?

  111. avatar
    JPotter April 4, 2012 at 3:43 pm #

    clestes: What is missing?

    The parts that say what they want to hear. So they make up what’s missing, and then make up what they want to see. It’s like a rainy day game,

  112. avatar
    Winston Court April 6, 2012 at 11:29 am #

    HOW CAN I EXAMINE OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND KNOW IT IS A FRAUD?
    You will need a few things:

    1) A copy of the fraudulent birth certificate, directly from the whitehouse website:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    1a.) You will also need Adobe Reader to open the web file, and download/save it to your hard drive:
    http://get.adobe.com/reader

    2) A free trial copy of Adobe Illustrator:
    http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=illustrator
    (this will allow you to open the birth certificate with software which is capable of displaying the layers, accurately, and allowing the fraud to be seen in detail.)

    3) Arpaio’s full video report, to show you a few things to look for. It discusses important evidence of fraud:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1wiGDYPALI
    (duplicating the demonstrations, with the tools given above, will allow you to do much of the same investigation Arapio’s team did.)

    4) Tom Harrison’s report on defects/artifacts in birth certificate, proving fraud:
    http://www.wnd.com/files/2011/07/110726whitedots.pdf
    (following Tom’s guide, you will be able to see that that obama’s birth certificate is an ABSOLUTE FRAUD!)

    The web is also full of other inconsistencies and evidence of the fraud, mismatched type imported from other documents, mixed, modern day computer type with 1961 typewriter type, etc.

    There is little doubt that the birth certificate is a fraud (but, hey, if obama can explain the posting of a fraudulent document to the whitehouse website — and how he became so confused as to think it is his birth certificate, I will listen.) And, one must wonder why a criminal is being allowed to remain in the public servant office of president. There are obvious problems with a criminal occupying the office of president, one is the military being unable to follow unlawful orders, since a criminal issuing orders from the whitehouse, and acting as commander in chief would be unlawful, all of his orders would be unlawful, and the military would be unable to act, lawfully, on such orders.

    Also, any and all actions, bill, laws, executive orders, decisions, etc. would be unlawful, illegal, unbinding and without validity — if done by an illegal and criminally treasonous president. As more and more American citizens wake up to these truths, there is only one way to accurately describe the situation we are in, or simply, “WE ARE IN DEEP DUDU!”

    And remember, while Angels may have halos, birth certificates DON’T! (you will learn about this while examing the materials, above.)

  113. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 6, 2012 at 4:31 pm #

    Everything Court mentions has been debunked.

    Winston Court: HOW CAN I EXAMINE OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND KNOW IT IS A FRAUD?
    You will need a few things:

  114. avatar
    John Reilly April 6, 2012 at 5:23 pm #

    I’m shocked Mr. Court. If it is so clear President Obama is a criminal who should be removed from office, why hasn’t a single member of the House moved to impeach him?

  115. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 6, 2012 at 5:27 pm #

    Winston Court:
    http://bcfoley.blogspot.com/2012/04/sheriff-joe-wants-obamas-original.html

    You are one of the most gullible people on the planet.

  116. avatar
    nbc April 6, 2012 at 6:04 pm #

    Winston Court: HOW CAN I EXAMINE OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND KNOW IT IS A FRAUD?

    I have looked at the document and the layers are best explained by Multi Raster Content compression.

    I am surprised you have not heard about that one yet but it explains the separation into foreground and background, and many other aspects that led the Cold Case Posse to erroneously infer ‘fraud’.

    What now?

  117. avatar
    Rickey April 6, 2012 at 6:57 pm #

    Winston Court:

    Also, any and all actions, bill, laws, executive orders, decisions, etc. would be unlawful, illegal, unbinding and without validity — if done by an illegal and criminally treasonous president.

    That’s not the case, but if it were the case it would mean that the Bush tax cuts have expired, so you will probably owe the IRS a bundle when you file your amended tax returns.

  118. avatar
    nbc April 6, 2012 at 7:23 pm #

    Rickey: Also, any and all actions, bill, laws, executive orders, decisions, etc. would be unlawful, illegal, unbinding and without validity — if done by an illegal and criminally treasonous president.

    De facto officer doctrine appears to be something Winston Court has not really understood… But of course, there is NO evidence that our current president is illegal or criminally treasonous, other than perhaps in Winston’s wet dreams.

  119. avatar
    Northland10 April 6, 2012 at 8:19 pm #

    Winston Court: Also, any and all actions, bill, laws, executive orders, decisions, etc. would be unlawful, illegal, unbinding and without validity — if done by an illegal and criminally treasonous president.

    Beyond an Executive Order which can usually be reversed by a later President’s Executive Order, would their be any example of the “magic reset” button actually happening on any governmental level? Off the top of my head, I cannot think of even one, maybe because most laws on any level require more than just the executive officer for adoption.

  120. avatar
    Whatever4 April 6, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

    Northland10: Beyond an Executive Order which can usually be reversed by a later President’s Executive Order, would their be any example of the “magic reset” button actually happening on any governmental level?Off the top of my head, I cannot think of even one, maybe because most laws on any level require more than just the executive officer for adoption.

    Actually, if a president is presented with a bill and does nothing at all, after 10 days it is law (except if it’s presented within 10 days of adjournment). He’s barely necessary to the process at all.

  121. avatar
    Linda April 6, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

    Read ’em and weep…

    “De Facto Officer Doctrine and Quo Warranto – Two dead ends

    In understanding why even if President Obama were a de facto’ rather than a de jure’ officer, his actions would remain valid, one needs to understand the “De Facto Officer Doctrine”.

    The de facto officer doctrine confers validity upon acts performed by a person acting under the color of official title even though it is later discovered that the legality of that person’s appointment or election to office is deficient. Norton v. Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425, 440 (1886). “The de facto doctrine springs from the fear of the chaos that would result from multiple and repetitious suits challenging every action taken by every official whose claim to office could be open to question, and seeks to protect the public by insuring the orderly functioning of the government despite technical defects in title to office.” 63A Am. Jur. 2d, Public Officers and Employees 578, pp. 1080-1081 (1984) (footnote omitted). The doctrine has been relied upon by this Court in several cases involving challenges by criminal defendants to the authority of a judge who participated in some part of the proceedings leading to their conviction and sentence. Ryder v. United States (94-431), 515 U.S. 177 (1995)…

    A “de facto officer” Is one who has a colorable right or title to the office accompanied by possession. It must originate in some kind of election or appointment to the office claimed, or, being an intruder or usurper, It must arise from the fact that he has exercised official functions under such circumstances and for so long a time, without Interference, as to justify belief [that] he has been elected or appointed. Galveston, H. & S. A. Ry. Co. v. Quinn (Tex.) 100 S. W. 1030, 1038.

    To constitute an officer de facto, he must have a presumptive or apparent right to exercise the office, resulting from either full and peaceable possession of the powers of such office, or reasonable color of title, with actual use of the office. State v. Messervy, 08 S. E. 766, 768, 86 S. C. 503.

    A “de facto officer” Is one who actually performs the duties of the office with apparent right, under claim or color of appointment or election, and it is immaterial that the appointing power could not give him good title to the office, or that the statute under which he claims to hold the office Is unconstitutional. Gavin v. Board of Com’rs of Took County, 92 N. E. 291, 295, 245 111. 496.

    The concept of acquiescence and de facto’ officer:

    45. Acquiescence and reputation. A mere intruder is not an officer de facto. His acts are void and are always open to attack. But long acquiescence and general reputation will render one, who was at first an intruder, an officer de facto even without color of title.

    This means that even though one can challenge the validity of the office, or the eligibility of the officers, this has to happen in a separate proceedings. Furthermore, prior actions of a de facto’ officer cannot be set aside….

    In another ruling the court shows the relevance of acquiescence

    A person will be deemed to be a de facto judge only if he is in possession of the office of judge and is discharging its duties,[35. …Assigned judge was, at the very least, a judge de facto of court to which he had been assigned on day before his designation authorized him to act. Leary v. U.S., C.A.Cal. 268 F.2d 623.] and there cannot be a de facto judge when there is a de jure judge in the actual performance of the duties of the office.[36. Johnson v. Manhattan Ry. Co. D.C.N.Y., 1 F.Supp. 809, reversed on other grounds, C.C.A. 61 F.2d 934, affirmed in part 53 S.Ct. 721, 289 U.S. 479, 77 L.Ed. 1331….] Mere possession of the office is not sufficient to make the incumbent a de facto judge;[37] to constitute him a de facto judge his incumbency of the office must be illegal in some respect,[38] and he must have color of title[39. Glidden Co. v. Zdanok, N.Y., 82 S.Ct 1459, 370 U.S. 530, 8 L.Ed.2d 671, rehearing denied 83 S.Ct. 14, 371 U.S. 854, 9 L.Ed.2d 93. … Ensher, Alexander & Barsoom, Inc. v. Ensher, 47 Cal.Rptr. 688, 238 C.A.2d 250…] or his possession must have been acquiesced in by the public generally.[40. Ensher, Alexander & Barsoom, Inc. v. Ensher, 47 Cal.Rptr. 688, 238 C.A.2d 250…]

    In other words either the de facto’ officer must have color of title’ or the public must have acquiesced generally….

    These legal cases strongly suggest that the only way to challenge’ the eligibility of the President is through Congress, or alternatively by the voters who elect both Congress and the President by voting in their preferred candidate. Unless Congress decides to impeach President Obama, he will continue to serve as de facto and as the evidence strongly suggests de jure President of our great Nation.”
    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/de-facto-officer-doctrine/

    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/de-facto-officer-doctrine/

    Winston Court
    : Also, any and all actions, bill, laws, executive orders, decisions, etc. would be unlawful, illegal, unbinding and without validity — if done by an illegal and criminally treasonous president.

  122. avatar
    Northland10 April 6, 2012 at 9:53 pm #

    Whatever4: Actually, if a president is presented with a bill and does nothing at all, after 10 days it is law (except if it’s presented within 10 days of adjournment). He’s barely necessary to the process at all.

    True, but Winston and his fellow travelers never get that part. Now I wait in anticipation for their example of the “magic reset” button. It may be a while, a long while.

    Ironically, one of the laws Obama signed that might have been eligible for a pocket veto is the extension of the Bush Tax Cuts.

  123. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 6, 2012 at 10:12 pm #

    Northland10: True, but Winston and his fellow travelers never get that part.Now I wait in anticipation for their example of the “magic reset” button.It may be a while, a long while.

    Ironically, one of the laws Obama signed that might have been eligible for a pocket veto is the extension of the Bush Tax Cuts.

    I thought it would NOT become law. Isn’t that what they call a “pocket veto”? Or is that something different?

  124. avatar
    Linda April 6, 2012 at 10:20 pm #

    Thomas Brown: I thought it would NOT become law. Isn’t that what they call a “pocket veto”? Or is that something different?

    Bills presented to the president, but unsigned, become law after 10 days.

  125. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2012 at 10:43 pm #

    Linda: Bills presented to the president, but unsigned, become law after 10 days

    Unless Congress adjourns before the 10 days (not counting Sunday) are up and in that case the bill expires. That’s what is called a pocket veto.

  126. avatar
    The Magic M April 7, 2012 at 4:28 am #

    Winston Court: since a criminal issuing orders from the whitehouse, and acting as commander in chief would be unlawful, all of his orders would be unlawful, and the military would be unable to act, lawfully, on such orders

    Why is it that birthers always want to render the US military incapable of acting lawfully? Are they North Korean agents hoping to pave the way for an invasion where the US military sits idly by and says “sorry folks, can’t help you, usurper’s still in office”?

  127. avatar
    Northland10 April 7, 2012 at 9:04 am #

    CarlOrcas: Unless Congress adjourns before the 10 days (not counting Sunday) are up and in that case the bill expires. That’s what is called a pocket veto.

    I believe the term “Pocket” veto hints that the President, instead of acting on the bill and sending it back, would just put it in his “pocket” and walk away. Since the Congress could not come back and respond, there is no chance of an override.

    I did notice, that HR 3808 was referred to as a Pocket Veto (unsigned by the President) even though it was only when they were on recess and the Senate was still having Pro Forma sessions. He sent a notice back to Congress anyway and mentioned the Pocket Veto Case so he may have realized that Congress might object if they so chose.

    My mentioning of the ability to Pocket Veto the Bush Tax Cut extension was premised on a pocket veto only being possible during an Adjournment sine die

  128. avatar
    Linda April 7, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    CarlOrcas: Unless Congress adjourns before the 10 days (not counting Sunday) are up and in that case the bill expires.

    Yes, Sensei, I kept reading over that part.

  129. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 9, 2012 at 4:13 pm #

    I’ve been posting this at various blogs. Anyone who wants to help me “spread the word” about this is welcome to clip it and post it anywhere it would do the most harm good.

    There is currently an investigation into the possibility that Joe Arpaio assisted Timothy McVeigh in carrying out the worst terrorist attack on US soil before 9/11.

    McVeigh lived in Arizona and patronized the same anti-Government groups as Arpaio; they both developed a hatred for the Federal Government after the Waco incident. And it has long been thought that the plot was too demanding for McVeigh and his known conspirators to have pulled off.

    The informal investigation squad, nicknamed the “Posse on the Side of Justice,” is about to release a report that indicates “probable cause” to investigate Arpaio for a contributory role in this crime. They stress, however that they are not accusing him of any crimes at this time.

    But one of the retired private detectives involved is quoted as remarking “We can’t believe what we’re finding.”

  130. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 9, 2012 at 4:15 pm #

    I guess the “s” html tag doesn’t work anymore. I meant to strike “harm.”

    Maybe spelling it out? …harm good…

  131. avatar
    Shizue Rodemeyer April 9, 2012 at 6:57 pm #

    I am curious to find out what blog platform you are working with? I’m experiencing some small security problems with my latest site and I would like to find something more safe. Do you have any recommendations?

  132. avatar
    Majority Will April 9, 2012 at 7:44 pm #

    Shizue Rodemeyer: Do you have any recommendations?

    Yes. Contact these people:
    http://www.insaneclownposse.com/icp2010/?page_id=2296

    Ask for a closed meeting with “Joe”.

  133. avatar
    J. Potter April 9, 2012 at 8:25 pm #

    Winston Court: There are obvious problems with a criminal occupying the office of president, one is the military being unable to follow unlawful orders, since a criminal issuing orders from the whitehouse, and acting as commander in chief would be unlawful, all of his orders would be unlawful, and the military would be unable to act, lawfully, on such orders.

    Hey, forward that good news to the people mentioned here:

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/the-terrorist-notches-on-obamas-belt/

    And toss Gaddafi on for good measure. And at least 2 squads of Somali pirates.

  134. avatar
    Northland10 April 9, 2012 at 9:13 pm #

    Winston Court: There are obvious problems with a criminal occupying the office of president

    Well then, it’s a good thing there is not a criminal occupying the Office of the President. You should feel much better now.

  135. avatar
    Dave B. April 9, 2012 at 10:41 pm #

    How come Zullo or whoever all of a sudden gets to be a qualified document examiner when it comes to the Selective Service Registration, and how come the provenance of the artifact being examined all of a sudden doesn’t seem to matter at all?

  136. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 10, 2012 at 8:44 am #

    Dave B.:
    How come Zullo or whoever all of a sudden gets to be a qualified document examiner when it comes to the Selective Service Registration, and how come the provenance of the artifact being examined all of a sudden doesn’t seem to matter at all?

    You new to Birfer Logic, Dave? I can’t remember the attribution, but a commenter at Fogbow uses as a signature line: “Just when you think it makes no sense, it makes even less than that.”

  137. avatar
    Sef April 10, 2012 at 10:04 am #

    Northland10: Well then, it’s a good thing there is not a criminal occupying the Office of the President.You should feel much better now.

    That’s one of our President’s problems. He’s insufficiently corrupt, so Rethuglicans don’t recognize him.

  138. avatar
    Don April 11, 2012 at 10:00 pm #

    In the New Jersey Obama Ballot Access Challenge, the Plaintiff argued that since the Defendant was not willing to produce the original birth certificate, “the internet image of his birth certificate could not be used as evidence by either Judge Masin or the New Jersey Secretary of State and that he (Obama) presented to the court or the Secretary of State no other evidence of his identity or place of birth. Judge Masin also asked Obama’s attorney whether she would so stipulate. She did so stipulate, agreeing that both the court and the Secretary of State cannot rely on the internet birth certificate as evidence of Obama’s place of birth and that Obama has produced no other evidence to the court regarding his place of birth.”

    Later that evening, Judge Masin ruled that Obama was born in Hawaii with no evidence on record, after acknowledging that fact during the hearing.

    If there was no evidence submitted to this court to support the place of birth, how did the Judge make this determination?

  139. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 11, 2012 at 10:41 pm #

    Don:
    In the New Jersey Obama Ballot Access Challenge, the Plaintiff argued that since the Defendant was not willing to produce the original birth certificate, “the internet image of his birth certificate could not be used as evidence by either Judge Masin or the New Jersey Secretary of State and that he (Obama) presented to the court or the Secretary of State no other evidence of his identity or place of birth. Judge Masin also asked Obama’s attorney whether she would so stipulate. She did so stipulate, agreeing that both the court and the Secretary of State cannot rely on the internet birth certificate as evidence of Obama’s place of birth and that Obama has produced no other evidence to the court regarding his place of birth.”

    Later that evening, Judge Masin ruled that Obama was born in Hawaii with no evidence on record, after acknowledging that fact during the hearing.

    If there was no evidence submitted to this court to support the place of birth, how did the Judge make this determination?

    He didn’t. His ruling was that NJ law doesn’t require a candidate to prove his or her eligibility at all. His statement that BHO was born in Hawaii was obiter dicta, but even so was based on the rulings of other courts (like Ankeny) that did address his status as a Natural Born Citizen.

    Besides, the Birther meme that BHO (or any candidate) needs to prove his eligibility in court at all, much less to the complete satsfaction of his partisan political enemies, is completely bogus. The onus has always been on the challenger to prove he is NOT eligible. So Judges have been ruling that BHO’s eligibility has not been disproven, NOT that his eligibility has been proven.

    Hope I cleared that up for ya.

  140. avatar
    Don April 11, 2012 at 11:03 pm #

    Well, your explanation clears it up partially. I’m not questioning Ankeny. I just don’t see how the Judge or any one else could apply Ankeny because that case was based upon a birth happening on US soil. If there is no evidence submitted to the New Jersey Court that Obama was born anwhere in the US, then it appears to me that Obama should be viewed as a man out a country in the eyes of this court.

    I undrstand your comment that the onus is on the challenger to prove he is not eligible.

  141. avatar
    Majority Will April 11, 2012 at 11:13 pm #

    Joe Arpaio’s “Birther” Friends Quiz Arizona Politicos on Obama Eligibility, Nobody Cares

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/04/joe_arpaios_birther_friends_qu.php

  142. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 11, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

    Don:
    Well, your explanation clears it up partially.I’m not questioning Ankeny. I just don’t see how the Judge or any one else could apply Ankeny because that case was based upon a birth happening on US soil.If there is no evidence submitted to the New Jersey Court that Obama was born anwhere in the US, then it appears to me that Obama should be viewed as a man out a country in the eyes of this court.

    I undrstand your comment that the onus is on the challenger to prove he is not eligible.

    Live people have seen and felt the raised seal on the Hawaii State Certified Copy of Obama’s LFBC. That, plus all the other documentary and witness evidence, means that only those who refuse to accept plain reality think BHO wasn’t born in the USA.

    Here are the major court rulings:

    Ankeny v. Daniels, 916 N.E.2d 678 (Ind. Ct. App. 2009) (citing Wong Kim Ark to hold that ” persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents”) transfer denied 929 N.E.2d 789 (Ind. 2010);

    Farrar et al v. Obama, OSAH-SECSTATE-CE-1215136-60-MALIHI (Feb. 3, 2012) (Ga. Office of State Admin. Hearings) (citing Wong Kim Ark and Ankeny v. Daniels to conclude that Obama is natural born citizen by virtue of his birth in the United States);

    Purpura and Moran v. Obama, OAL DKT. NO. STE 04534-12 (April, 10, 2012)(citing Ankeny and Wong Kim Ark to conclude that “[t]he petitioners’ legal position on this issue, however well intentioned, has no merit in law. Thus, accepting for the point of this issue that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a “natural born Citizen” regardless of the status of his father”);

    Allen v. Obama et al, No. C20121317 (Ariz. Pima County Super. Ct., Mar. 7, 2012) (order dismissing complaint)(citing Wong Kim Ark to conclude “this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution and thus qualified to hold the office of President”);

    Tisdale v. Obama, No. 3: 12-cv-00036-JAG (E.D. Va. Jan. 23, 2012) (order dismissing complaint) (concluding that “It is well settled that those born in the United States are considered natural born citizens”);

    Jackson v. Obama, 12 SOEB GP 104 (Jan. 27, 2012) (hearing officer recommendation) (Obama’s birth certificate “clearly establishes” his eligibility for office as a “Natural Born Citizen”), objection overruled (Ill. State Bd. of Elections, Feb. 3, 2012);

    Freeman v. Obama, 12 SOEB GP 103 (Jan. 27, 2012) (hearing officer recommendation) (Obama’s birth certificate “clearly establishes” his eligibility for office as a “Natural Born Citizen”), objection overruled (Ill. State Board of Elections, Feb. 3, 2012);

    Hollander v. McCain, 566 F.Supp.2d 63, 66 (“Those born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof’ have been considered American citizens under American law in effect since the time of the founding and thus eligible for the presidency”).

  143. avatar
    Don April 11, 2012 at 11:37 pm #

    Response to Thomas Brown.

    My question was about the New Jersey Court Case where the Judge ruled that the birth certificate could not be used as evidence. All of your references may be valid, but I believe they are not applicable to this court case because the Judge disallowed the use of the Presidents birth certificate. With no birth certificate as evidence, the President in the eyes of this court should have been considered as a man with out a country.

  144. avatar
    y_p_w April 12, 2012 at 12:26 am #

    Don:
    Response to Thomas Brown.

    My question was about the New Jersey Court Case where the Judge ruled that the birth certificate could not be used as evidence.All of your references may be valid, but I believe they are not applicable to this court case because the Judge disallowed the use of the Presidents birth certificate.With no birth certificate as evidence, the President in the eyes of this court should have been considered as a man with out a country.

    Why would he be a man without a country? He’s got a US passport where the information page clearly says place of birth as “HAWAII, U.S.A.”.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/08/13/west-wing-week-mailbag-day-summer-edition

    And regardless of what the birthers say, in order to get a US passport there needs to be some proof of birthplace sent to the State Department.

    Now this was the coolest part of that passport – on the endorsement page:

    THE BEARER IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

  145. avatar
    Linda April 12, 2012 at 12:41 am #

    Don: My question was about the New Jersey Court Case where the Judge ruled that the birth certificate could not be used as evidence.

    The Plaintiffs in the case claimed Obama had not proven he was eligible. The Judge said that there was not a requirement under NJ law that a presidential candidate file a BC, so Obama had not failed to comply with the law. He did not disallow its use, it was not required by law.

    “In this matter, as the petitioners’ objection is that Mr. Obama has not providedthe Secretary with proof of the place of his birth by means of a birth certificate orotherwise, the lack of any obligation on his part to do so means he has not failed to actin accordance with the applicable law.”

    The Judge went on to rule on the Plaintiffs’ claim that Obama could not be a natural born citizen if his father was not a US citizen, or if he was, he lost it if adopted by his step-father. The court ruled that none of that mattered, it only mattered that he was born in the US.

    “….The petitioners’ legal position on this issue, however well intentioned, has no merit in law. Thus, accepting for the point of this issue that Mr.Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a “natural born Citizen” regardless of the status of his father.”

    Here is a link to the decision:
    http://www.scribd.com/puzo1/d/88910250-Purpura-Moran-Initial-Decision-of-ALJ-Masin

  146. avatar
    Don April 12, 2012 at 12:51 am #

    Response to Y_P_W

    You missed my point. There was no evidence presented in the New Jersey Court case which specified his status of citizenship or where he was born. My question is specific to this court case. If no evidence, (no birth certificate, no passport, nothing) was accepted by the Judge, how could the Judge conclude that Obama was was born in Hawaii?

  147. avatar
    Rickey April 12, 2012 at 1:22 am #

    Don:
    Response to Y_P_W

    You missed my point.There was no evidence presented in the New Jersey Court case which specified his status of citizenship or where he was born. My question is specific to this court case.If no evidence, (no birth certificate, no passport, nothing) was accepted by the Judge, how could the Judge conclude that Obama was was born in Hawaii?

    The judge didn’t conclude that Obama was born in Hawaii. You have mis-read the ruling, or you are relying on someone else’s erroneous interpretation of the ruling.

    The judge’s ruling says “Discussion and consideration of this issue [the two-citizen parents issue] is of course relevant only on the understanding that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii.” In other words, the argument that Obama is ineligible due to being a dual citizen at birth is only relevant if you first assume that he was in fact born in the United States. In order to consider the argument, the judge first had to assume that Obama was born in the United States. Otherwise there would be no point in addressing the argument.

    It is similar to the rule that when considering a Motion to Dismiss on standing, a Court proceeds on the assumption that the factual allegations made by the plaintiff are true. When a Court does that, it is not ruling that the factual allegations are true, it is simply assuming that they are true for purposes of considering the Motion.

    You also are mistaken when you say that the judge ruled that Obama’s birth certificate could not be used as evidence. He said that the birth certificate wasn’t offered into evidence, and he ruled that there is no requirement under New Jersey law for a candidate to produce his or her birth certificate.

  148. avatar
    Keith April 12, 2012 at 1:28 am #

    Don:
    Response to Y_P_W

    You missed my point.There was no evidence presented in the New Jersey Court case which specified his status of citizenship or where he was born. My question is specific to this court case.If no evidence, (no birth certificate, no passport, nothing) was accepted by the Judge, how could the Judge conclude that Obama was was born in Hawaii?

    You are missing the point. Obama doesn’t need to present ANY evidence what-so-ever. He, or his surrogate, was a defendant. He, or his surrogate on his behalf, has made sworn statements that he is a natural born citizen and eligible for the office of President.

    He is not a man without a country in the eyes of the court, he is a “natural born citizen” in the eyes of the court, until PROVEN otherwise

    It is the plaintiff that is required to PROVE that that sworn statement is false, not the other way around.

    This is America, not Kampuchea, for crying out loud.

  149. avatar
    Arthur April 12, 2012 at 1:28 am #

    Don: There was no evidence presented in the New Jersey Court case which specified his status of citizenship or where he was born.

    Don,

    This wasn’t a court case. It was ballot challenge handled by an Administrative Law Judge, and the rules that govern an ALJ hearing are different from a criminal court case.

    Essentially, an ALJ works as a kind of B.S. detector, seeking to understand a challenger’s complaint and deciding if it is valid. The judge’s ruling in New Jersey, just as in Georgia, did not have to be based solely on material discussed before him; moreoever, by law, he starts from a position that a presidential candidate, having successfully gone through the process of getting on the ballot, is eligible. Likewise, since there is considerable evidence that supports Obama’s birth in Hawaii (evidence that has never been challenged in an actual court and has the state of Hawaii’s endorsement) the judge can accept this as incontroveritble support of Obama’s status as a natural-born citizen.

  150. avatar
    Don April 12, 2012 at 1:43 am #

    Arthur,

    I understand now, based upon how you describe it.

  151. avatar
    Northland10 April 12, 2012 at 7:53 am #

    This is not directed as much to Don, but a general response (especially with the CCPs BC PDF forgery fun).

    Mario’s case is beginning to highlight more of the futility of the birthers BC forgery claims and such. Even some of the known birthers on ORYR agreed that NJ law did not require a birth certificate. There issue, though, gets even messier:

    1. Even if it were forged, the claim that the image is a forgery is useless for the Birthers. If an official or a court were to actually, require a Birth Certificate, Obama’s team would have to submit a hard copy certified version. The Birthers are found of saying, you cannot submit an electronic image so, even if the electronic image was fake, it would not be the one turned in.

    2. As Arthur mentioned, there is a large amount of corroborating evidence of his birth in Hawaii (including the state of Hawaii’s own statements).

    3. To impeach any evidence of the now “common knowledge” of the President’s birthplace, the Birthers have to submit some type of evidence that shows he was born somewhere else. I am waiting for a Birther to state, “He was not born in the US” which leads to the Judge to ask, “so where was he born, and where is your evidence of that birth?” Screaming forgery of the PDF only sends them back to item 1 above.

    Some of the Birthers (unlike the grifters of the CCP) “believe” in the born in Kenya meme so much that, since they have not facts to back it up, can only demand that the President submit their evidence for them.

  152. avatar
    Scientist April 12, 2012 at 8:28 am #

    Northland10: To impeach any evidence of the now “common knowledge” of the President’s birthplace, the Birthers have to submit some type of evidence that shows he was born somewhere else. I am waiting for a Birther to state, “He was not born in the US” which leads to the Judge to ask, “so where was he born, and where is your evidence of that birth?” Screaming forgery of the PDF only sends them back to item 1 above.

    I don’t think it’s really about eligibility and doubt it ever was. It’s simply about throwing mud in the general direction of Obama to try to make him look like a crook, a liar, a foreigner or all of the above. If it were truly about eligibility there would be pro-Obama birthers.

    By the way, I remain unconvinced to this day that even a birth outside the US would make someone in the President’s circumstances ineligible. Given the questions regarding his parent’s marriage and the conflict between contemporaneous and current laws it is not a slam dunk either way.

  153. avatar
    Majority Will April 12, 2012 at 10:30 am #

    Scientist: I don’t think it’s really about eligibility and doubt it ever was. It’s simply about throwing mud in the general direction of Obama to try to make him look like a crook, a liar, a foreigner or all of the above.If it were truly about eligibility there would be pro-Obama birthers.

    By the way, I remain unconvinced to this day that even a birth outside the US would make someone in the President’s circumstances ineligible.Given the questions regarding his parent’s marriage and the conflict between contemporaneous and current laws it is not a slam dunk either way.

    “It’s simply about throwing mud in the general direction of Obama to try to make him look like a crook, a liar, a foreigner or all of the above.”

    The delusional birther bigots and trolls that slink around here and occasionally spew or dribble vitriol that is political or racial and non-eligibility related are excellent examples.

  154. avatar
    gorefan April 12, 2012 at 10:39 am #

    Arthur: he starts from a position that a presidential candidate, having successfully gone through the process of getting on the ballot, is eligible.

    Is that kind of like innocent until proven guilty?

  155. avatar
    The Magic M April 12, 2012 at 10:41 am #

    Northland10: 1. Even if it were forged, the claim that the image is a forgery is useless for the Birthers. If an official or a court were to actually, require a Birth Certificate, Obama’s team would have to submit a hard copy certified version. The Birthers are found of saying, you cannot submit an electronic image so, even if the electronic image was fake, it would not be the one turned in.

    That’s because many birthers have deluded themselves that there is no paper document that Obama could introduce in court.

    But you are correct in observing that with regard to that issue, it is irrelevant whether the released PDF is a forgery or nothing had ever been released. Either way, the only thing that matters in the end is the paper document (I’m talking certified copy, of course, not original real real vault long long long form microfilm paper ;)).

  156. avatar
    Arthur April 12, 2012 at 10:45 am #

    gorefan: Is that kind of like innocent until proven guilty?

    Innocent until proven guilty . . . interesting idea, but not really something on which to base a legal system. I prefer “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”–less ambiguity and more like real life.

  157. avatar
    The Magic M April 12, 2012 at 10:45 am #

    BTW I think an interesting poll amongst birthers would be:

    (1) Do you consider Obama’s birth certificate legit? Yes/No

    (2) Do you consider the Shroud of Turin to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ? Yes/No

    My money is on 60+% answering “No, Yes”, in that order. And they wouldn’t even begin to understand the irony.

  158. avatar
    gorefan April 14, 2012 at 1:59 pm #

    “In fact the date slugs are mechanically inserted into the stamp and don’t have to be perfectly centered.”

    A good example of that comes from the Cold Case Posse’s own exhibits. Exhibit B has four SSR cards the top left one (KAPAA HI) has a date stamp with the 1980 offset to the right. The “0” is almost touching the innner ring of the stanp.

    An interesting side note to Exhibit B, the CCP redacted the DLNs from their exhibit. The top right SSR (Pearl City return address) was one of the ones obtained by Susan Daniels. It has a DLN of 0897 080 653. President Obama’s DLN is 0897 080 632. And Bruce Henderson’s DLN 9obtained by Daniels) is 0897 080 613.

    Any theory of forgery has to explain how the forger got a DLN that matchs the other DLNs from that time period. He obviously didn’t guess a ten digit number.

    That maybe the reason the CCP redacted those numbers in the first place. The must be smart enough to know that the President’s DLN could only have come from the Selective Service Administration and either contradicts the forgery claim or implies a vast governmental conspiracy. Which I think they know would make them look more ridiculous then they already do.

    Here are Susan Daniel’s SSR the one with the KAPAA HI date stamp is very clear. In fact, it looks to me like the CCP only used the SSRs obtained by Daniels in their “investigation”. No big surprise.:

    http://tinyurl.com/6nbl7vn

  159. avatar
    Keith April 14, 2012 at 8:50 pm #

    gorefan: Any theory of forgery has to explain how the forger got a DLN that matchs the other DLNs from that time period. He obviously didn’t guess a ten digit number.

    Maybe the forger was Obama hisself? Then he would know what his real DLN is and could come up with a plausible fake one?

  160. avatar
    gorefan April 14, 2012 at 10:28 pm #

    Keith: Then he would know what his real DLN is and could come up with a plausible fake one?

    Than maybe he is also the one to forge the BC. He could have copied all the information from the original onto the pdf before forging it.

  161. avatar
    Wanda Alexander April 15, 2012 at 6:58 pm #

    Why is the 19 totally missing? Not even a slight smudge. Whereas the 80 is plenty dark. You have not made your case.

  162. avatar
    gorefan April 15, 2012 at 7:48 pm #

    Wanda Alexander:
    Why is the 19 totally missing? Not even a slight smudge. Whereas the 80 is plenty dark. You have not made your case.

    Why is the first “O” in HONOLULU missing while the rest of the letters are clear?

    Why is President Obama’s DLN (ten digit number in the upper right corner) so close to Bruce Henderson’s DLN and Darrel Oniwa”s DLN?

    0897 080 653 (Oniwa) JUL 31 1980
    0897 080 632 (Obama) JUL 30 1980
    0897 080 613 (Henderson) AUG 2 1980

    All three were stamped within a few days of each other in 1980 in the same Post Office in Honolulu.

  163. avatar
    justlw April 15, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    Wanda Alexander: Why is the 19 totally missing? Not even a slight smudge.

    Because the scan of the card is monochrome, so if any part of the stamp is lightly inked it won’t even register as a slight smudge. It’s either black or it’s gone.

    As gorefan pointed out, on one of the stamps that the CCCP says is absolutely peachy and just what Obama’s should look like, the “O” in “HONOLULU” is missing. Not even a smudge.

    And no one has even begun to rationalize why the master forgers could spend all this time acquiring a rare 40-year-old stamper, and cut up a “2008” to make an “80”, but can’t find a “19” to stick in there. But then get their mojo back and successfully infiltrate the Bush Administration records system to get this card inserted.

    …and travel back in time so that Obama has a perfectly serviceable Selective Service record from 1980 onward.

  164. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 15, 2012 at 8:59 pm #

    Wanda Alexander:
    You have not made your case.

    You will not get away with that inversion of US law and traditon here.

    We do not need to make any sort of case. Nor does President Obama need to prove his eligibility to you, me, or any US State.

    It means less than nothing that you think there’s something wrong with his SS record. Anyone with PROOF that any of his documents are forgeries, in the form of HARD EVIDENCE that contradicts the information in them, we ENCOURAGE them to bring it to the attention of CONGRESS, the only body that can remove a President.

    You, Mad Orly, Sleazy Mario, Corrupt Joe… none of you can keep him from being on every ballot in November. However, if he wins the election, Congress and the Electoral College can refuse to certify the results, and the Chief Justice can refuse to swear him in. IF, that is, they have evidence he is not eligible.

    Note that I did not say “if he hasn’t proven he IS eligible.” That’s not the way it works. They will believe that he was born in Hawaii, that he is legally a Natural Born Citizen, meets the other requirements, and is hence eligible UNLESS THEY HAVE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

    So if I were you I’d get busy finding that actual, hard, verifiable evidence.

  165. avatar
    SluggoJD April 15, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    Wanda Alexander:
    Why is the 19 totally missing? Not even a slight smudge. Whereas the 80 is plenty dark. You have not made your case.

    Because even though a lot of rich and powerful people are involved in the greatest hoax and cover up in human history, as well as aliens from Planet FUARK, nobody could figure out how to forge a “19!”

    Bunch of dumbass forgers, huh??

  166. avatar
    gorefan April 15, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    justlw: one of the stamps that the CCCP says is absolutely peachy and just what Obama’s should look like, the “O” in “HONOLULU” is missing.

    Actually, I was talking about the President’s date stamp. The “O” is missing as is the second “L” on his stamp.

    IMO, the same stamp was used to stamp President Obama’s and Darrell Oniwa’s

  167. avatar
    chancery April 15, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    Majority Will: Yes. Contact these people:
    http://www.insaneclownposse.com/icp2010/?page_id=2296

    Ask for a closed meeting with “Joe”.

    I’ve been noticing for a while that the regulars here are slowly but surely showing the influence of the “Misha style.” Kudos all ’round.

  168. avatar
    gorefan April 15, 2012 at 9:22 pm #

    justlw: could spend all this time acquiring a rare 40-year-old stamper

    And not just any rare round hand Postal stamp, they found one from Honolulu, HI MAKIKI STA. The Makiki station is about a mile from the President’s grandparent’s house.

  169. avatar
    Majority Will April 15, 2012 at 9:27 pm #

    chancery: I’ve been noticing for a while that the regulars here are slowly but surely showing the influence of the “Misha style.” Kudos all ’round.

    😀

  170. avatar
    justlw April 15, 2012 at 9:32 pm #

    gorefan: Actually, I was talking about the President’s date stamp.

    OK, sorry to put words in your mouth.

    I just like that there’s a missing character in the one the CCCP says is a good one–so good, in fact, that it’s the one they compare Obama’s to.

  171. avatar
    Rickey April 15, 2012 at 10:12 pm #

    Wanda Alexander:
    Why is the 19 totally missing? Not even a slight smudge. Whereas the 80 is plenty dark. You have not made your case.

    Better question: Why would Obama, or anyone else, want to forge a Selective Service registration? What possible value would it have had? It’s not as if he would have been dodging the draft if he had not registered, since there was no draft when he turned 18. So who would have cared?

    Have any birthers demanded that Mitt Romney produce his Selective Service registration? Nah, I didn’t think so.

  172. avatar
    gorefan April 15, 2012 at 11:43 pm #

    justlw: I just like that there’s a missing character in the one the CCCP

    I understand what you are saying and I agree, it is funny that the example they use has the same problems,, but I think that the exact same stamp was used on President Obama’s and the one from CCP

    So the forger didn’t just find “a” stamp from 1980, they found “the” stamp from 1980.

  173. avatar
    Sef April 16, 2012 at 12:07 pm #

    Rickey: Better question: Why would Obama, or anyone else, want to forge a Selective Service registration? What possible value would it have had? It’s not as if he would have been dodging the draft if he had not registered, since there was no draft when he turned 18. So who would have cared?

    Have any birthers demanded that Mitt Romney produce his Selective Service registration? Nah, I didn’t think so.

    There’s the claim that he couldn’t have gotten college loans w/o having registered. But he did get college loans, so he must have registered. The mind boggles.

  174. avatar
    bovril April 16, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    But it gets better Sef, remember the birfoons say this is a RECENT forgery circa 2008 when the Manchurian candidate was being ginned up and the NWO was cleaning up his background.

    So, in that case he never filled in form, yet it’s proof it’s forged because he was a foreign student and it’s old and new simultaneously..etc..etc

    How the universe hasn’t collapsed in on itself due the the masses of causality violation I simply don’t know

  175. avatar
    The Magic M April 16, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

    SluggoJD: as well as aliens from Planet FUARK, nobody could figure out how to forge a “19!”

    They did, however they erroneously put the “19” in the fifth dimension, not knowing us puny humans wouldn’t be able to perceive it. Oh, the master plan foiled by a simple cultural mistake!

  176. avatar
    Sef April 16, 2012 at 12:42 pm #

    bovril: How the universe hasn’t collapsed in on itself due the the masses of causality violation I simply don’t know

    Have you seen the crack on your bedroom wall yet?

  177. avatar
    bovril April 16, 2012 at 3:05 pm #

    HAH…and the building inspector said it was “subsidence”…does that mean I can sue Birthers for reality distortion and causality violation leading to direct property value loss…?