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Tabloid reports: Obama threatened Clintons to keep quiet

In a story that is so crazy that you’d think it’s a spoof, Internet tabloid WorldNetDaily reports that President Clinton and Hillary Clinton were the first birthers and that they, ready to exposes Obama, where cowed into silence after threats were made by Obama operatives. The Clintons were so afraid for the life of their daughter that they a) didn’t raise the birther issue in the 2008 campaign and b) freely blabbed the story to a Hollywood producer Bettina Viviano.

What’s wrong with this story? Let me count the ways.

Fox News reporter show host Heather Childers Tweeted a typical Fox-style slur, but one that apparently upset Fox management. Childers Tweeted:

Thoughts? Did Obama campaign threaten Chelsea Clinton’s Life 2 Keep Parents Silent?

According to Fox News Senior Vice President Michael Clemente, the Tweets were a “mistake.” I guess Fox isn’t quite ready to think about taking responsibility for something that would take a thesaurus to adequately criticize.

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205 Responses to Tabloid reports: Obama threatened Clintons to keep quiet

  1. avatar
    sponson April 4, 2012 at 1:59 pm #

    Fox News Anchor (not commentator) suggests that President Obama threatened to murder Chelsea Clinton in order to keep her parents silent about issues of his eligibility: article here.

  2. avatar
    john April 4, 2012 at 6:34 pm #

    The truth now reveals that the Clintons new Obama was ineligible but were threatened if they talked. McCain cut a deal with Obama not to mention his eligibility problem in return for the Senate Resolution which declared his an NBC.

  3. avatar
    Scientist April 4, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

    Ramjomi: Haven’t you heard the new theory? The Obama’s threatened to kill Chelsea Clinton if the Clinton’s released the information that they knew Obama was ineligible. Apparently, Bill (who ironically enough has lied about things before and even was accused by political opponents of killing Vince Foster) told some Hollywood Producer that he knew that Obama was ineligible and now Corsi has picked up on the story. Of course, the reason they never came forward was because of the threat on Chelsea. I am sure Sheriff Joe will be around in a bit to give his expert opinion on this murderous twist. At some point an Martian is going to be involved, it is the only fitting ending.

    And who did Obama threaten to keep the Republicans from torpedoing him? Did he threaten that he would expose Sarah Palin as a dolt?

  4. avatar
    clestes April 5, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

    I find this threat against Chelsea to be particularly disgusting. this is when you know you are not only winning the game, but they are running out of ideas that have any hope of capturing people.

    Only the most deluded and sick person would actually believe such a lie. Any passibly normal person, who might have some question is going to look at that claim and realize these people are so far gone that no one wants to be associated with them. No decent or respected lawyer will touch a case.

    Their money supplies are dwindling and the panic mode is approaching. When you have lost over 100 court cases and claim that the only way to save the country is to take to the streets, you have to have respected leaders. Leaders that people are willing to believe and follow.

    These birthers have gone so far down the rabbit hole that no one wants to follow them. And they have no leaders worth following.

  5. avatar
    sfjeff April 5, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    One of the things I find amusing about the supposed threat to the Clintons is the Clintons would have been under Secret Service protection…and while Chelsea would not have been directly under it, I am sure the Secret Service would have acted on any actual threats to her or the Clintons.

    So what the Birthers believe is that Senator Obama was part of some murderous conspiracy that pulls the strings not only on the Republicans in Hawaii, but murders Arkansas politicians and threatens the lives of former Presidents without the Secret Service noticing.

    Think about this…if everyone in Clinton’s campaign knew about this…how did the Secret Service happen to not notice it?

  6. avatar
    Majority Will April 5, 2012 at 5:38 pm #

    sfjeff:
    One of the things I find amusing about the supposed threat to the Clintons is the Clintons would have been under Secret Service protection…and while Chelsea would not have been directly under it, I am sure the Secret Service would have acted on any actual threats to her or the Clintons.

    So what the Birthers believe is that Senator Obama was part of some murderous conspiracy that pulls the strings not only on the Republicans in Hawaii, but murders Arkansas politicians and threatens the lives of former Presidents without the Secret Service noticing.

    Think about this…if everyone in Clinton’s campaign knew about this…how did the Secret Service happen to not notice it?

    Immediate family is under Secret Service protection. Remember the SNL skit with Laraine Newman as Amy Carter in school with agents protecting her from bullies?

    Chelsea was code name Energy. Amy was Dynamo.
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Service_codename)

  7. avatar
    y_p_w April 5, 2012 at 8:09 pm #

    Ramjomi: However, this fact doesn’t makes the birther claims any less absurd. For one, I am sure if the Clintons had alerted the Secret Service or any authorities that Chelsea would have been under some sort of protection, whether it was Secret Servie or FBI. The President does have the authority to give Secret Service protection to others, and I am sure GW Bush would have surely given it to Chelsea (because he is a dad himself).

    Mrs. Clinton was a member of Congress at the time, and the agency tasked with protecting members of Congress and their families is the US Capitol Police. However, she had overlapping protection from the Secret Service as a former First Lady.

    They changed the law regarding Secret Service protection, although I don’t believe it applies to Mrs. Clinton. It’s now up to 10 years for the President and First Lady after the President leaves office, but I think they’re exempted.

    Protection details are a strange thing. Every Cabinet agency has their own law enforcement, which is usually tasked with protecting cabinet secretaries. People use the term “Secret Service” even though they have specific duties unless there’s a request from the President. Right now the State Dept has their own protective service bureau, which among other things provides security for visiting foreign ministers.

    http://www.state.gov/m/ds/protection/c8756.htm

    I saw the Secretary of Commerce once at an event, and I think that was his agency’s own security wearing the white earpieces. I’ve even read that the U.S. Park Police have a permanent detail to provide the Secretary of Interior with a protection detail.

  8. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2012 at 10:18 pm #

    Ramjomi: Really, if you are to believe any of this stuff, a bloodbath should have ensued, since both the Clintons and Obamas have “proven” to be ruthless killers.

    Which side is the Hatfields and which the McCoys? Or is it Earp/Clanton?

  9. avatar
    The Magic M April 6, 2012 at 3:33 am #

    sfjeff: Think about this…if everyone in Clinton’s campaign knew about this…how did the Secret Service happen to not notice it?

    What do you expect from a conspiracy theory?
    They all have their “it’s top secret, but everybody knows” (see Tim Adams’ claims about Hawaii and the BC, or several other claims about Kenya and Kenyan birth) stories, along with “it’s top secret, but one of them openly told me everything over a beer” stories.

  10. avatar
    Linda April 7, 2012 at 2:01 pm #

    Sef: They just do not think these things through.

    Yep, that is pretty much a common thread. The 2 citizen-parent thing doesn’t hold either because it was common knowledge that Obama’s father a British citizen. How did the Clintons, both Yale lawyers, miss that? So now they add the threats to Chelsea to keep the Clintons quiet, but what about the republicans?

  11. avatar
    J. Potter April 7, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    Linda: So now they add the threats to Chelsea to keep the Clintons quiet, but what about the republicans?

    Hell, what about everyone? Like the bills you mentioned above (just the latest iterations of legislation that goes back 20 years minimum) …. this is a case of people putporting that what they wish was true, actually is true, and always has been. Swapping their preferred reality for reality.

    Looks at it this way: if we did live in the Vatteliverse, then there would be no difference between Obama running for President, and Schwarzeneggar running for President, as the ineligibility of both would be public, popular knowledge. Everyone knows Ahnuld is an immigrant, has been known for decades. Everyone should know that Obama had a foreign father. There’s been no effort to hide it. There were no cries of ineligible as the suggestions that he might run someday began in 2004, nor in 2006 when he looked like he would run, nor in 2007 when he announced he was running. If pre-sexcapades, pre-divorce Ahnuld had announced he was running in 2007, what would the reaction have been?

    The difference between the two is the proof that we are not in the Vatteliverse.

  12. avatar
    Linda April 7, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    Makes sense now why Taitz has subpoenaed Childers. Let me rephrase that, would make sense to Taitz.

  13. avatar
    Rickey April 7, 2012 at 5:23 pm #

    Linda:
    Makes sense now why Taitz has subpoenaed Childers.Let me rephrase that, would make sense to Taitz.

    Leave it to Orly to want to take testimony from someone whose only knowledge is hearsay about hearsay.

  14. avatar
    richCares April 7, 2012 at 6:21 pm #

    “Only the most deluded and sick person would actually believe such a lie”
    .
    and john says:
    “The truth now reveals that the Clintons new Obama was ineligible but were threatened if they talked. McCain cut a deal with Obama not to mention his eligibility problem in return for the Senate Resolution which declared his an NBC.”

  15. avatar
    Steve April 7, 2012 at 6:48 pm #

    john:
    The truth now reveals that the Clintons new Obama was ineligible but were threatened if they talked.McCain cut adeal with Obama not to mention his eligibility problem in return for the Senate Resolution which declared his an NBC.

    You use “new” instead of “knew” and you expect us to take what you say seriously?

  16. avatar
    J. Potter April 7, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

    My comment above, posted at 3:11pm, was in response to Linda’s comment on the Bivens thread:
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/04/bivens-and-bivens-and-bivens-oh-my/#comment-179710

    … not sure why it moved here? Crazy databases.

  17. avatar
    Sean April 7, 2012 at 7:20 pm #

    Thoughts? Yes. Fire Heather Childers.

  18. avatar
    Sean April 7, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

    john:
    The truth now reveals that the Clintons new Obama was ineligible but were threatened if they talked.McCain cut adeal with Obama not to mention his eligibility problem in return for the Senate Resolution which declared his an NBC.

    So Obama was going to get the New Black Panthers to kill Chelsea Clinton?

  19. avatar
    DP April 7, 2012 at 7:29 pm #

    john:
    The truth now reveals that the Clintons new Obama was ineligible but were threatened if they talked.McCain cut adeal with Obama not to mention his eligibility problem in return for the Senate Resolution which declared his an NBC.

    You’re beyond pathetic.

  20. avatar
    misha April 7, 2012 at 8:02 pm #

    john: the Clintons new Obama was ineligible but were threatened if they talked. McCain cut a deal with Obama not to mention his eligibility problem in return for the Senate Resolution which declared his an NBC

    Remarkably similar to what Orly Taitz said on Israeli TV.

  21. avatar
    Thrifty April 7, 2012 at 9:20 pm #

    I think what I like about this story is that it allows Birthers to ignore the total absence of pro-Obama Birthers by inventing two Democrat Birthers who are still anti-Obama. In this way they can claim that Birtherism is non-partisan. That it is completely about finding the truth and not at all about smearing the president.

  22. avatar
    Linda April 7, 2012 at 10:44 pm #

    I do think the birthers enjoy that. I have seen stories dating back to 2008 that say Hillary supporters started rumors about Obama, whether it was his religion or eligibility. I think most were clear not to attribute them to the campaign itself. I remember an article I thought was respectable at the time I read it, which named names. I think it credited the Kenyan birth-a-polooza to former, fired Hillary staffer, but I cannot find that article anymore.

  23. avatar
    J. Potter April 7, 2012 at 10:47 pm #

    How is it that what every birther knows is somehow a secret among politicians? This meme also implies it is to some extent partisan knowledge … the Clintons are the only Dems who know. Or perhaps it’s just the next evolution of the idea that everyone knows, and everyone is covering it up, only those with something to gain (the Presidency) need to be actively compromised or threatened. The Republicans in Congress are all in the tank, only pretending to oppose The Islamo-Socialist Agenda. That they have not been threatened (so far as we know) proves they’re in on it.

    And all of this benefits … no one really. SPreads confusion and keeps part of the electorate deluded and bitter. If the really hardcore birfers just drop out in protest or vote 3rd party, that ultimately benefits Democrats. Milder birfers will just vote GOP anyway. Farah has tried to tell his drones who to vote for, they don’t seem to be buying. Other birther thought leaders don’t address politics at all, they just wholly focused on smearing Obama.

    This is just runaway stupidity.

  24. avatar
    The Real Fake Story April 8, 2012 at 12:17 am #

    This is where it helps to be plugged into the birther high command (the real one, not the public hounds).

    Because the real scoop is that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had a secret meeting with Kissinger and they all made a deal, divided up the spoils (decided who gets to be President, etc., plus all the special secret goodies).

    Oh, you say that might have been slightly premature, as no matter what deal they made they still needed to run against the Republicans (McCain/Pailn). Well, that is why Kissinger met with Palin. Why else would he have met with her? They met, had a public show, then had the real meeting in secret, where Kissinger pulled Palin into the know, thus accepting her patron’s recommendation (McCain’s) to take her into the fold.

    What?! What happened to Republicans vs. Democrats? You may have heard there is only one party, not two. This is what they mean. All the squabbling is just for show. They make people think they have a choice. It’s not just greed, it is mega-conspiracy that binds them all together. When you talk about political opponents, such as both Republicans and Democrats in Hawaii blessing Obama’s b.c., to the birther high command you merely are demonstrating your ignorance. There are no two parties. They aren’t opposed to each other. They have secret deals to slice and dice it all up, and you’re either in on it, or you are a freedom fighter (I mean, birther).

    See how elegant that is? Explains everything, right? That’s why it is a joke to talk about threatening the Clintons. The Clintons have been in on the conspiracy for many many years. Obama is the one who was threatened, to go along or get exposed as having been born in another country, never mind his American mother.

    That is the real fake story for everyone to see.

  25. avatar
    Heretic April 8, 2012 at 1:52 am #

    Like a junkie, Dr. Con can’t go too many days without a blog fix. His time away made him deliriously hyperbolic:

    “I guess Fox isn’t quite ready to think about taking responsibility for something that would take a thesaurus to adequately criticize.”

    When he gets off the junk, Dr. Con should spend ten sober minutes contemplating the president’s juvenile and unprofessional behavior.

    Dr. Con’s cold turkey detox ain’t gonna be pretty.

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 8, 2012 at 1:54 am #

    Given that the vote on SR 511 was unanimous, one wonders how anyone could deliver on such a deal. One would have thought that the Junior Senator from Illinois would not have had such clout.

    john: McCain cut a deal with Obama not to mention his eligibility problem in return for the Senate Resolution which declared his an NBC.

  27. avatar
    bob j April 8, 2012 at 2:02 am #

    So,

    1. The President is powerful enough to have threatened the Clinton’s child with absolute authority.

    2. He cut a deal with McCain, so they could both pull a fast one on the whole country, culminating in his victory; because of his absolute power.

    3. He has bullied, or killed, everyone who could oppose him, or bring his transgressions to light.

    4. But he was refused a law license, as was his wife, because of inconsistencies ( a story on Orly’s site) in his narrative.

    5. His forger sucks.

    Who is on drugs, Heretic?

  28. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 8, 2012 at 2:09 am #

    The article wasn’t for my benefit, but to provide a little movement in the article topic so the blog didn’t go stale.

    While I did take a point of view in this article, I would not agree that it is “hyperbolic.” If I had said “words cannot express” or “beyond words” that would have been hyperbolic. I think literally that Fox inadequately addressed what it’s host did and I think that tolerating such behavior, minimizing it, and not coming to terms with what it means for the credibility of the network just goes to show that Fox isn’t in the news business, but the propaganda business.

    But there are far worse things than Fox. Fox said recently abut the Florida shooting:

    Speaking on “Fox News Sunday,” Plouffe said Obama “was speaking powerfully about this as a parent.” Plouffe added that “no matter gender or race, this is a tragedy.”

    Gingrich and Santorum called Obama’s remarks racist. Other Fox News assigned 50% of the responsibility for the death of Trayvon Martin to his wearing a hoodie. One notes that Fox News sells hoodies on its web site.

    Heretic: Like a junkie, Dr. Con can’t go too many days without a blog fix. His time away made him deliriously hyperbolic:

    “I guess Fox isn’t quite ready to think about taking responsibility for something that would take a thesaurus to adequately criticize.”

    When he gets off the junk, Dr. Con should spend ten sober minutes contemplating the president’s juvenile and unprofessional behavior.

    Dr. Con’s cold turkey detox ain’t gonna be pretty.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 8, 2012 at 2:14 am #

    By the way, anybody who deliberately insults the host (me) will be put in moderation.

    Heretic: Dr. Con’s cold turkey detox ain’t gonna be pretty.

  30. avatar
    traderjack April 8, 2012 at 2:42 am #

    What amazes me, is not the story itself, as it is a common enough story, but to think that any parent, or any poster here, could believe that any agency could protect their child from assassination, when JFK was assassinated.

    If it were your child , what would you do?

    A determined killer will kill someway, some how, just look at Mexico, let alone LA.

  31. avatar
    nbc April 8, 2012 at 2:47 am #

    traderjack: A determined killer will kill someway, some how, just look at Mexico, let alone LA.

    Yawn… You’re such a tool and fool

  32. avatar
    nbc April 8, 2012 at 2:49 am #

    Heretic: When he gets off the junk, Dr. Con should spend ten sober minutes contemplating the president’s juvenile and unprofessional behavior.

    ROTFL… And the stock market is up, unemployment has been going down, Bin Laden is dead and dozens of Al Qaeda are dead or in prison and our unnecessary war in Iraq which caused the deaths of thousands of US forces and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens has been ended. Sure.. Who is really juvenile here my friend.

  33. avatar
    Heretic April 8, 2012 at 2:52 am #

    [I’m not going to subsidize Heretic’s personal insults. Get your own web site. Doc.]

  34. avatar
    US Citizen April 8, 2012 at 3:09 am #

    I searched the web for politically oriented drug abusers who went through detox, but all I found were photos of Rush Limbaugh.

  35. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 4:15 am #

    Heretic: When he gets off the junk, Dr. Con should spend ten sober minutes contemplating the president’s juvenile and unprofessional behavior.

    US Citizen: I searched the web for politically oriented drug abusers who went through detox, but all I found were photos of Rush Limbaugh.

    Speaking of junkies, rumor has it that Glenn Beck was in a heroin haze, when that poor girl met her demise. It’s telling that people like “Heretic” bash President Obama, but ignore Rush Limbaugh’s buying black market OxyContin, and Glenn Beck’s alleged heroin fueled rape and murder, dating back to 1990. Beck is a recovered addict and alcoholic.

    All Glenn Beck has to do is release his criminal record abstract stamped “Subject has clear record to date,” and this can be over tonight.

    SHOW US YOUR RECORDS BECK!!!

  36. avatar
    US Citizen April 8, 2012 at 4:34 am #

    misha: All Glenn Beck has to do is release his criminal record abstract stamped “Subject has clear record to date,” and this can be over tonight.

    SHOW US YOUR RECORDS BECK!!!

    Why won’t Glenn show us his records?
    What is he hiding?

  37. avatar
    Keith April 8, 2012 at 4:49 am #

    Um, guys. I don’t think Mr. Beck is a birther is he?

    (I know, that question could be construed as some kind of support for Beck when that could not be further from the truth. I just want to keep the record accurate. Excuse me folks, I have to go take a shower now and there is a funny taste in my mouth from when I almost threw up.)

  38. avatar
    US Citizen April 8, 2012 at 4:54 am #

    Keith: Um, guys. I don’t think Mr. Beck is a birther is he?

    Perhaps he’s not a birther because a birther believes one basic thing that’s not correct.
    Beck, on the other hand, believes about 10,000 things that are not correct.

  39. avatar
    aarrgghh April 8, 2012 at 4:56 am #

    only a determined idiot could believe the same person who couldn’t find decent forger could find a surefire killer.

  40. avatar
    aarrgghh April 8, 2012 at 5:00 am #

    US Citizen: Perhaps he’s not a birther because a birther believes one basic thing that’s not correct.
    Beck, on the other hand, believes about 10,000 things that are not correct.

    you’re going to have to help the rest of out by enumerating the things birfers believe that are actually correct.

  41. avatar
    US Citizen April 8, 2012 at 5:08 am #

    aarrgghh: you’re going to have to help the rest of out by enumerating the things birfers believe that are actually correct.

    Sorry.. I don’t have a chalkboard that large.

  42. avatar
    Judge Mental April 8, 2012 at 7:53 am #

    Thrifty: I think what I like about this story is that it allows Birthers to ignore the total absence of pro-Obama Birthers by inventing two Democrat Birthers who are still anti-Obama. In this way they can claim that Birtherism is non-partisan. That it is completely about finding the truth and not at all about smearing the president.

    By her own admission, Viviano is a Republican who voted for McCain.

    Go to this link….

    http://hillbuzz.org/excellent-article-at-pumapac-by-darragh-murphy-you-need-to-read-on-obamas-voter-fraud

    Scroll to the comments where you will find a series of posts by her including this…

    BettySueLA says:
    2010/07/13 at 11:29 am BettySueLA(Quote)

    to Nomobama…I think Ed Morrisey might whine in NOVEMBER when it happens IN EVERY SINGLE MIDTERM RACE. I happen to be a REPUBLICAN. I wouldn’t have voted for Hillary. I respect her, and would rather have her as President, but I would have voted MCCAIN no matter what. So, I spent my own money, my time, etc. to help Hillary because she deserved a fair election. AND because I am AMERICAN and fraud is fraud. I am ashamed of Michelle Malkin, Ed Morrisey and the others for saying this is a Democrat problem. I thought they were more intelligent than that. The PROBLEM is that ACORN, SEIU, The NAACP, Obama/Pelosi/Reid,The Black Panthers, etc. are ALL colluding ALREADY to screw us in midterms. My message to Michelle, Ed, etc. is what planet do you live on? We’re AMERICANS FIRST, party second. We can’t have these criminals steal November. So, the Conservative Hillary haters can wake the hell up.

  43. avatar
    donna April 8, 2012 at 11:23 am #

    john:
    The truth now reveals that the Clintons new Obama was ineligible but were threatened if they talked.McCain cut adeal with Obama not to mention his eligibility problem in return for the Senate Resolution which declared his an NBC.

    huckabee said in march 2011

    “The only reason I’m not as confident that there’s something about the birth certificate … is because I KNOW THE CLINTONS WELL, and BELIEVE ME they had LOTS OF INVESTIGATORS ON HIM, and I’m CONVINCED if there WAS ANYTHING they could have found on that THEY WOULD HAVE FOUND IT, and I PROMISE THEY WOULD HAVE USED IT,” Huckabee said on “The Steve Malzberg Show” on New York station WOR.

    McCain Campaign Investigated, Dismissed Obama Citizenship Rumors

    “We monitored the progress of these lawsuits against the Obama campaign,” said Trevor Potter, a Washington attorney who served as general counsel to the 2008 and 2000 McCain presidential campaigns. “

  44. avatar
    Sef April 8, 2012 at 12:07 pm #

    US Citizen: Sorry.. I don’t have a chalkboard that large.

    You could use an Etch a Sketch.

  45. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 12:24 pm #

    Sef: You could use an Etch a Sketch.

    Start by drawing a dog on a car roof.

  46. avatar
    Geir Smith April 8, 2012 at 1:26 pm #

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s expanding his birth Issue investigation to Hillary supporters who got death threats from Obama if they pursued the birth issue.

    http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.fr/2012/04/sheriff-joe-expands-obama-probe-to.html

    Please make a topic with that. This is ongoing and will peak soon. This will all be exposed to the public eye in the greatest revelation of hidden secrets in the History of Humanity and this will be the Last Judgment.

  47. avatar
    Joey April 8, 2012 at 2:53 pm #

    Let me see if I’ve got this straight…Barack Obama threatened the life of Chelsea Clinton and Hillary Clinton then went to work for President Obama as his Secretary of State and former President Clinton, later this month is doing reelection campaign fundraisers and making campaign documentaries for President Obama?
    I guess the Clintons didn’t take the threat too seriously.

  48. avatar
    donna April 8, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    Joey: dontcha know that obama is more powerful that a superhero? he has paid off or threatened over 100 judges including the supremes – he has done the same or WORSE to state secretaries of state and other legislators – he hypnotized the REPUBLICAN governor, who was campaigning for mccain, and her REPUBLICAN STAFF – SOMEHOW microfiche of his birth announcements appeared in hi newspapers – and on – apparently his only failure was employing a BAD FORGER – i guess even superheroes are fallible

  49. avatar
    dunstvangeet April 8, 2012 at 3:52 pm #

    This entire thing of “Clinton recieved more votes” is hogwash.

    This is only true if you take the following…

    1. Barack Obama got 0 votes in Michigan (both candidates had agreed to stay out of Michigan because of their decision to move up their candidate. Barack Obama abided by that decision, Hillary Clinton did not.)

    2. You count votes in Caucuses (which are significantly lower turn out) as the same as votes in Primaries. For instance, Colorado had 120,000 people vote in their caucus, and had 55 delegates to the national convention convention. New Hampshire (which had 22 delegates to the National Convention) had 287,527 people vote in the primary. So, according to the “Hillary Clinton received more votes” people, New Hampshire should have mattered twice as much as Colorado, when Colorado had twice as many delegates to the DNC.

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 8, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

    Since Arpaio is just a loudspeaker for WorldNetDaily, anything he does is just an extension of the WND web site, so discussion of what he might do regarding the Clintons fits this article.

    A concept lost on the birthers is that some people are responsible for some things and others are not. Joe Arpaio may understand this and has chosen to ignore it, but the birthers confuse a politically motivated smear campaign with an official investigation.

    As a normal person I understand that Sheriff Joe is a loose canon, but I also understand that tying Joe down is not my responsibility. I hope he gets tied down before he hurts someone.

    Geir Smith: Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s expanding his birth Issue investigation to Hillary supporters who got death threats from Obama if they pursued the birth issue.

    http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.fr/2012/04/sheriff-joe-expands-obama-probe-to.html

    Please make a topic with that. This is ongoing and will peak soon. This will all be exposed to the public eye in the greatest revelation of hidden secrets in the History of Humanity and this will be the Last Judgment.

    Here is a basic question. How long do we have to wait until your claim can be considered disproved? What does “soon” mean? Will you be saying the same thing a year from now?

  51. avatar
    nbc April 8, 2012 at 4:15 pm #

    Geir Smith: Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s expanding his birth Issue investigation to Hillary supporters who got death threats from Obama if they pursued the birth issue.

    Hilarious, more foolishness from Arpaio…

  52. avatar
    Joey April 8, 2012 at 4:40 pm #

    donna:
    Joey: dontcha know that obama is more powerful that a superhero? he has paid off or threatened over 100 judges including the supremes – he has done the same or WORSE to state secretaries of state and other legislators – he hypnotized the REPUBLICAN governor, who was campaigning for mccain, and her REPUBLICAN STAFF – SOMEHOW microfiche of his birth announcements appeared in hi newspapers – and on – apparently his only failure was employing a BAD FORGER – i guess even superheroes are fallible

    Thanks for clarifying that for me, Donna! ;-)
    I know that if someone threatened the life of my daughter, I’d certainly want to go to work for them and help them raise money!

  53. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 4:50 pm #

    “Thoughts? Did Obama campaign threaten Chelsea Clinton’s Life 2 Keep Parents Silent?”

    Thoughts? Did Glenn Beck rape and murder a girl in 1990 2 keep her silent?

    SHOW US YOUR RECORDS BECK!!!

  54. avatar
    nbc April 8, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

    misha: “Thoughts? Did Obama campaign threaten Chelsea Clinton’s Life 2 Keep Parents Silent?”

    There is no real evidence of such, so it is not surprising that the birthers are all over it. Fools… We all know that President Obama is born on US soil, so there was never a need to threaten Chelsea Clinton.

  55. avatar
    Scientist April 8, 2012 at 5:04 pm #

    Let’s get real. The people pushing this nonsense are the same ones who pushed the “Hillary killed Vince Foster” crap. Had Hillary won, they would be spreading lies about her, including that she threatened Sasha and Malia. They simply cannot accept that any Democrat ever is legitimate.

  56. avatar
    US Citizen April 8, 2012 at 5:06 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: As a normal person I understand that Sheriff Joe is a loose canon

    Is that anything like a free-form Pachelbel composition?

  57. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    Thoughts? Did Jon Kyl help Heather Childers get an abortion at Planned Parenthood?

    #Not a factual statement.

  58. avatar
    Geir Smith April 8, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Since Arpaio is just a loudspeaker for WorldNetDaily, anything he does is just an extension of the WND web site, so discussion of what he might do regarding the Clintons fits this article.

    A concept lost on the birthers is that some people are responsible for some things and others are not. Joe Arpaio may understand this and has chosen to ignore it, but the birthers confuse a politically motivated smear campaign with an official investigation.

    As a normal person I understand that Sheriff Joe is a loose canon, but I also understand that tying Joe down is not my responsibility. I hope he gets tied down before he hurts someone.

    Here is a basic question. How long do we have to wait until your claim can be considered disproved? What does “soon” mean? Will you be saying the same thing a year from now?

    Why don’t you tie down Sheriff Joe? Are you a fake cowboy and just wearing a hat? You always try to look like such a tough. I think you fear.
    By “soon” I mean Arpaio’s going to make another presentation in a couple of weeks and the issue will peak. Obama’ll be the naked emperor we know he is.

  59. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    Thoughts? Did Romney threaten his sons not to talk about the dog on the car roof?

  60. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 5:27 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: As a normal person I understand that Sheriff Joe is a loose canon

    US Citizen: Is that anything like a free-form Pachelbel composition?

    OMG. Sheriff Joe and Pachelbel in the same paragraph. Now I’m going to have nightmares.

  61. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 5:30 pm #

    nbc: there was never a need to threaten Chelsea Clinton.

    Yeah, but what about threatening Seamus?

  62. avatar
    justlw April 8, 2012 at 5:36 pm #

    Geir Smith: Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s expanding

    Yeah, we try not to mention it, out of consideration for his family and his tailor.

  63. avatar
    justlw April 8, 2012 at 5:39 pm #

    nbc: Hilarious, more foolishness from Arpaio…

    We should expect immediate action in the form of several months of silence, two circus acts press conferences, a pamphlet, and no actual law enforcement activity.

  64. avatar
    Linda April 8, 2012 at 5:47 pm #

    Puhleeze! We all know the adage that three people can keep a secret as long as two of them are dead. Yet, the birth-brains would have us believe that since at least 2006 the Clintons, Hillary’s campaign workers, McCain/Palin and their campaign workers, the Obamas, all members of Congress including those no longer in office, basically the entire population of Hawaii, all the judges in their cases, etc., save this brave lass have been silent for 6 years. Even that is only if we are talking about Obama not being born in the US. If they are going with the two-citizen parent hoopla, then we have to add all the lawyers, judges, law students, and anyone with a decent high school education.

  65. avatar
    Linda April 8, 2012 at 5:51 pm #

    misha:

    Thoughts? Did Glenn Beck rape and murder a girl in 1990 2 keep her silent?
    Thoughts? Did Romney threaten his sons not to talk about the dog on the car roof?
    Thoughts? Did Jon Kyl help Heather Childers get an abortion at Planned Parenthood?

    Stand back….Misha is on a roll!

    SHOW US YOUR RECORDS BECK!!!

  66. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 6:08 pm #

    justlw: Yeah, we try not to mention it, out of consideration for his family and his tailor.

    [bada-bing]

  67. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 6:12 pm #

    Linda: Stand back….Misha is on a roll!

    Thoughts? Glenn Beck accidentally not put down:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/11/glenn-beck-accidentally-not-put-down.html

  68. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 6:29 pm #

    Thoughts? Did Heather Childers have affair w/Thom Kinkade?

  69. avatar
    mike April 8, 2012 at 7:15 pm #

    am i blocked?

    [The spam filter is acting up. Doc.]

  70. avatar
    US Citizen April 8, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    misha:
    Thoughts? Did Heather Childers have affair w/Thom Kinkade?

    Yes, but Kinkade only contributed a few strokes.

  71. avatar
    mike April 8, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

    only people who agree need comment… how sad.

  72. avatar
    RuhRoh April 8, 2012 at 9:46 pm #

    This story is exactly why i can’t ever become a full-time anit-birther. Make no mistake, I think the Birthers are absolutely wrong in every argument they put forth.

    But this type of story really puts frint and center why there is no merit in fighting them. They are literally insane people. No amount of facts or evidence will ever dissuade them. Sane people pay them no mind.

  73. avatar
    Egh April 8, 2012 at 10:01 pm #

    Sparked on by your original term “internet tabloid” I recall and confirm the origin of the term “tabloid” from the uk 1880’s where small format papers condensed the sensational news of the day ( thanks dr g. Of gu for the 19th century Brit lit class). Much like the daytime television drama of the 1940 in the us acquired the moniker “soap operas” from the host of soap makers that sponsored these programs, these fleet street rags accepted advertisement from a pharm company that put powdered cures into small tablets they marketed as “tabloids”. The papers themselves became synonymous with the branded term. Although the term quickly morphed to slang meaning small, or a small version of–to wit the sopwith camel/ sopwith tabloid; it soon carried a connotation for the type of reporting, articles, and topical interest they purveyed. So much so that magazine format and digest publications later sought to differentiate themselves from the sensationalist “red tabloids”, who,frequently cast their own publication name in a red ink banner. This tradition continues at our present checkout counter, what in witness of the globe and the national inquirer. In this manner, dr c. I assume you do doubly dub wnd ( and the daily caller?) an Internet tabloid. It is both a grand literary and rhetorical tribute.

    But what indeed has taking the little red pill morphed into lately? When I ask ten foot Alice of the electric plasma zeitgeist, here’s what I get.

    http://pecangroup.org/full-disclosure/presidential-body-counts/obama-body-count

    off with their heads, not that we would know (USA aa+ to aa on 4/5)

    The net needs better debunking than the secret service wouldn’t letit happen.

  74. avatar
    Egh April 8, 2012 at 10:03 pm #

    1940 edit to 1950’s and 60’s sorry for the quick writing

  75. avatar
    US Citizen April 8, 2012 at 11:53 pm #

    Is there a secret Egh decoder ring available?
    Try as I may, I can’t decipher the writing.

  76. avatar
    misha April 9, 2012 at 12:22 am #

    Thoughts? Orly Taitz was a Moldova street walker?

  77. avatar
    BillTheCat April 9, 2012 at 1:28 am #

    Geir Smith: …greatest revelation of hidden secrets in the History of Humanity and this will be the Last Judgment.

    Wow seriously? Lol.

    Your statements just get more and more absurd.

  78. avatar
    Benji Franklin April 9, 2012 at 2:17 am #

    World Nut Daily is not running out of new fantastic claims.

    Get ready for Headlines claiming:

    “Two-Headed Texas Baby from the 90’s grows up only to duck the Obama Eligibility issue!”

    and a few days later……..

    “Contribute now! Help World Nut Daily stop multiple-headed Obama-lover from voting twice!”

    and then……..

    “Obama campaign depending for victory in Texas on spawn of Satan & voting machines!

  79. avatar
    US Citizen April 9, 2012 at 2:36 am #

    misha: Thoughts? Orly Taitz was a Moldova street walker?

    Oh my! I thought all these “Thoughts?” thingys were made up as funny suppositions.
    I never knew you’d zing us with a real one.
    Well, I guess the cat’s out of the bag.

    Say, did you hear what she used to do with a bowling ball, three cucumbers and a jar of Brylcream?

  80. avatar
    misha April 9, 2012 at 3:02 am #

    misha: Thoughts? Orly Taitz was a Moldova street walker?

    US Citizen: Say, did you hear what she used to do with a bowling ball, three cucumbers and a jar of Brylcream?

    Yes. That was her role in “The Aristocrats.”

  81. avatar
    Keith April 9, 2012 at 4:16 am #

    misha: Yeah, but what about threatening Seamus?


    I was in the kitchen; Seamus (that’s the dog) was outside.

    The sun was sinking slowly, but my hound just sat right down and cried.

  82. avatar
    Jules April 9, 2012 at 9:54 am #

    john: The truth now reveals that the Clintons new Obama was ineligible but were threatened if they talked. McCain cut a deal with Obama not to mention his eligibility problem in return for the Senate Resolution which declared his an NBC.

    I find it amusing that you say “truth” rather than evidence. Someone has made accusations and you assert that they are truth without putting forward any reason to believe that the allegations are true.

    Others here have jokingly made multiple absurd allegations to demonstrate a point: if the making of an allegation is sufficient to conclude that it is true, then we would have to believe all sorts of crazy things.

    In any event, the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that Obama is eligible to be President.

    The authorities of Hawaii have publicly confirmed that he birth records indicate that he was born in Hawaii. Obama has released scans of the certified copies of his records and had the hard copies inspected by FactCheck and the press. The Hawaii Department of Health confirms on its web site that it has released a certified photocopy of Obama’s original certificate and that a scan of this is now on the White House web site. There is further evidence in the form of contemporaneous birth announcements in Hawaii newspapers from information that had been submitted directly to the Hawaii Secretary of State.

    There are some who argue the Vattel meaning of “natural born” as a matter of law. The Supreme Court of the United States used the term “natural born” numerous times in Wong Kim Ark and concluded that English law is the basis for the concept in US law. Numerous courts have upheld this conclusion. The history of English law is abundantly clear that “natural born” status is based first and foremost on jus soli. Vattel himself noted that English nationality law worked somewhat differently than that of the continental European systems with which he was most familiar. Virtually every American court decision or scholarly opinion published since Wong Kim Ark concludes that birth in the United States makes one a natural born citizen. Ankeney concluded this specifically with respect to Obama and held his birth in Hawaii to render him a natural born citizen.

    So what did the Clinton supposedly have to hide? If they had anything, it would have been meaningless unless it either was enough to prove the inaccuracy of Hawaii’s vital records or completely undermine the holdings and opinions of the judiciary and legal profession for more than a century. If you want to assert that such extraordinary evidence exists, then you’d better provide it before asserting WND’s allegations to be true.

  83. avatar
    JPotter April 9, 2012 at 10:04 am #

    john: The truth now reveals ….. crazycrazyblahblah ….

    The ‘truth’ now reveals? Which rev level of project module ‘truth’ are we using this week?

  84. avatar
    Bernard April 9, 2012 at 10:11 am #

    This story is retarded. The entire Clinton family, Chelsea included, were entitled, as a former first family, to Secret Service protection. Additionally, Hillary, as an incumbent Senator, was entitled to yet more federal protection for herself and her family. And if the Clintons had proof of Obama’s disqualification and revealed it, then Hillary would have been assured the Democratic Nomination (and probably the election as well) and would have gotten yet more protection. So the story that Obama somehow threatened the Clintons is moronic.

    And, of course, a secret like this could not possibly be the exclusive property of just the Clintons. If there were such evidence it would have been known to a multitude of people, many unknown and unreachable by Obama, and any one of them could have blown the whistle. Etc.

  85. avatar
    JPotter April 9, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    Bernard: And, of course, a secret like this could not possibly be the exclusive property of just the Clintons. If there were such evidence it would have been known to a multitude of people, many unknown and unreachable by Obama, and any one of them could have blown the whistle. Etc.

    Yep, and you kow something that juicy would have leaked like a fire hose! Wall-to-wall “holy crap” coverage: “Candidate ineligible! Primaries a sham!” It be a case study for decades to come.

  86. avatar
    The Real Fake Story April 9, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    Right. Of course. That is why the real fake story is that it is the Illuminati (or NWO, or Rockefeller conspiracy) that threatened the Clintons AND Obama. The fake birth certificate is just leverage over Obama (do what we say or else we reveal the truth). Well, that’s the real truth as told to me by the fake experts (I mean, birthers).

    Really, let’s keep our conspiracies straight people!

    Bernard: So the story that Obama somehow threatened the Clintons is moronic.

  87. avatar
    Majority Will April 9, 2012 at 10:26 am #

    The Real Fake Story:
    Right. Of course.That is why the real fake story is that it is the Illuminati (or NWO, or Rockefeller conspiracy) that threatened the Clintons AND Obama.The fake birth certificate is just leverage over Obama (do what we say or else we reveal the truth).Well, that’s the real truth as told to me by the fake experts (I mean, birthers).

    Really, let’s keep our conspiracies straight people!

    There is a low, steady rumbling coming from deep below the earth very near where Corsi’s oil is being produced. In the coming months, massive, heavily armed and protected ships will rise to the surface. . .

  88. avatar
    Bernard April 9, 2012 at 10:34 am #

    IF Obama threatened the safety of the Clintons, it would have to have been a VERY formidable and credible threat, considering that it would have involved getting past the Secret Service protection of the former first family. So, if Obama’s henchmen were that formidable, how come nebishes without any bodyguards – like Orly Taitz and Jerome Corsi – are still alive and healthy?

  89. avatar
    JPotter April 9, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    Bernard: IF Obama threatened the safety of the Clintons, it would have to have been a VERY formidable and credible threat, considering that it would have involved getting past the Secret Service protection of the former first family. So, if Obama’s henchmen were that formidable, how come nebishes without any bodyguards – like Orly Taitz and Jerome Corsi – are still alive and healthy?

    Because no one would actually believe nutjobs like Taitz, Corsi, Donofrio, Aputzo, etc! ;)

    Another tied the birthers tied themselves into. We can know they full of crap, because they’re still alive.

  90. avatar
    AnotherBird April 9, 2012 at 10:57 am #

    Talk about bizarre. With all the “research” Corsi did, it is a surprise that he didn’t include it in the book he wrote about Obama.

  91. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2012 at 11:13 am #

    Geir Smith:

    This is ongoing and will peak soon.

    I hate to break it to you, but the shelf life on this particular birther fantasy has already expired.

  92. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

    Judge Mental: By her own admission, Viviano is a Republican who voted for McCain.

    She also may be a donor to the Republican Party of California and Rick Perry’s campaign.

    VIVIANO, BETTINA MS
    Beverly Hills,CA 90211

    VIVIANO FELDMAN ENTERTAINMENT

    10/7/08

    $1,500

    Republican Party of California (R)

    VIVIANO, BETTINA S
    LOS ANGELES,CA 90068

    ACCELERATE ENTERTAINMENT/PRODUCER

    12/2/11

    $500

    Perry, Rick (R)

    http://tinyurl.com/7p5pp2y

  93. avatar
    Northland10 April 9, 2012 at 12:10 pm #

    misha: OMG. Sheriff Joe and Pachelbel in the same paragraph. Now I’m going to have nightmares.

    Well, with the the Sheriff and Birthers constantly playing the same theme, over and over again, and the mention of the over and over again, Canon in D by Pachelbel:

    http://youtu.be/JdxkVQy7QLM

  94. avatar
    Jules April 9, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    Rickey: I hate to break it to you, but the shelf life on this particular birther fantasy has already expired.

    I would go further. The fantasy was already rotten and unfit for sale or consumption at the moment of release. Anyone buying into it is a damn fool.

  95. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2012 at 12:30 pm #

    Judge Mental: Viviano is a Republican

    You know who else is a Republican donor?

    FUKINO, CHIYOME
    HONOLULU,HI 96813

    2/21/06

    $600

    Republican Party of Hawaii (R)

    http://tinyurl.com/7qtloa5

  96. avatar
    JPotter April 9, 2012 at 12:30 pm #

    Northland10: Well, with the the Sheriff and Birthers constantly playing the same theme, over and over again, and the mention of the over and over again, Canon in D by Pachelbel:http://youtu.be/JdxkVQy7QLM

    I’d much rather have the birfers mentally associated with the saxophone stylings of Boots Randolph, rather than any of the Baroque masters.

  97. avatar
    JPotter April 9, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

    So who is the ultimate source of this Clinton meme? Seeing as it is being pushed 3 years too late?

  98. avatar
    The Real Fake Story April 9, 2012 at 2:57 pm #

    You so get it, Majority Will.

    Majority Will: There is a low, steady rumbling coming from deep below the earth very near where Corsi’s oil is being produced. In the coming months, massive, heavily armed and protected ships will rise to the surface. . .

  99. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

    Geir Smith: Why don’t you tie down Sheriff Joe? Are you a fake cowboy and just wearing a hat? You always try to look like such a tough. I think you fear.

    So how do you propose I “tie” Joe Arpaio down? File a birther-style lawsuit and have it thrown out for lack of standing? Tell the FBI what they already know?

    The only effective thing I could do is to contribute to his opponent in the next election.

    Birthers remind me a little of Don Quixote, only less virtuous.

  100. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 9, 2012 at 4:04 pm #

    Bernard:
    This story is retarded.

    It’s worse than that. Retarded people actually try to understand. The Birfers who sign on to stories like this are like a guy throwing dollar bills into a urinal, convinced it is a slot machine which will pay off any…day…now…

  101. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2012 at 4:13 pm #

    Reporting moronic stories is what we do here.

    Bernard: So the story that Obama somehow threatened the Clintons is moronic.

  102. avatar
    Bernard April 9, 2012 at 5:46 pm #

    Bettina Viviano, the supposed movie producer to whom Bill Clinton made this supposed statement, is a bit desperate to keep her name afloat. Her magnum opus as a movie production was Adam Sandler’s Jack & Jill, which just achieved a clean sweep of all the year’s Razzies and may qualify as the worst Hollywood movie of the decade.

  103. avatar
    sfjeff April 9, 2012 at 6:33 pm #

    “Bettina Viviano, the supposed movie producer to whom Bill Clinton made this supposed statement, is a bit desperate to keep her name afloat. Her magnum opus as a movie production was Adam Sandler’s Jack & Jill, which just achieved a clean sweep of all the year’s Razzies and may qualify as the worst Hollywood movie of the decade.”

    Yeah, I dug around about her and frankly was surprised to see her listed as an ‘executive producer’ of a big film- of course executive producer titles are handed out for lots of reasons- but I could find nothing else about her that seemed to match up to this.

    But moving on- I keep finding various accounts of what she was supposedly doing during the Clinton campaign. I have heard she was filming a documentary- but the documentary seems to be after the fact about her claims of election fraud.

    I can find no contemporary reference, other than her claim, that she was ever physically in the presence of the Clintons- or even part of a telephone conference call- which is how she claimed she heard Clinton saying Chelsea was threatened.

    I will ask once again- how come she heard this, but the Secret Service detail with Bill Clinton didn’t? From what I have read, there is no agency with less of a sense of humor than the Secret Service. Essentially Birthers would have to argue that the Secret Service was in on this too.

  104. avatar
    misha April 9, 2012 at 6:53 pm #

    Bernard: Bettina Viviano…is a bit desperate to keep her name afloat. Her magnum opus as a movie production was Adam Sandler’s Jack & Jill, which just achieved a clean sweep of all the year’s Razzies and may qualify as the worst Hollywood movie of the decade.

    No one could be as bad as Ed Wood.

  105. avatar
    Geir Smith April 9, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

    BillTheCat: Wow seriously? Lol.

    Your statements just get more and more absurd.

    The fraud of the US presidency is bigger than Watergate. The nuclear bombs have been jeopardized and USA (and whole world, he can blow up in one simple minute by pushing the red Nukes’ Button) put at risk (USA put at risk is the definition of High Treason.)
    No one’s threatened the world like this Obama has, neither Hitler nor anyone else be it Genghis or Stalin.

  106. avatar
    Geir Smith April 9, 2012 at 7:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So how do you propose I “tie” Joe Arpaio down? File a birther-style lawsuit and have it thrown out for lack of standing? Tell the FBI what they already know?

    The only effective thing I could do is to contribute to his opponent in the next election.

    Birthers remind me a little of Don Quixote, only less virtuous.

    Go after him macho like you are with the Birthers. Don’t fear his badge. Take on someone with 50 years as a law enforcer and top law enforcer for the DOJ for thirty years. I’d like everybody here’s attention for whether Obama risks the death sentence. Any ideas? if he’s a real fraud then he’s a foreign spy and that’s the death penalty (for stealing the fake clearance as Commander-in-Chief.)by law so please give me your thoughts. Thanks.

    http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/2000/290/Obamall_Get_the_F_KING_Death_Penalty.html

    I’ve circulated a letter asking that question on Internet and am awaiting the answers from all.
    My e-mail is geir.smith@yahoo..fr

  107. avatar
    Majority Will April 9, 2012 at 7:53 pm #

    Thomas Brown: It’s worse than that.Retarded people actually try to understand.The Birfers who sign on to stories like this are like a guy throwing dollar bills into a urinal, convinced it is a slot machine which will pay off any…day…now…

    Funny and astute.

  108. avatar
    sfjeff April 9, 2012 at 8:32 pm #

    Okay I figured out why she is listed as the executive producer- she sold the option on the screenplay apparently written by Ben Zook, who her company represents.

  109. avatar
    bovril April 9, 2012 at 10:12 pm #

    So…..Betty’s entire “street cred” is that someone else wrote a craptastic screenplay of a film regarded as one of the worst in recent years and her company sold said screenplay to someone with more money than sense….

    And somehow this makes her a mover and shaker in Hollywood and a credible “source” for a story that is less beliveable and WORSE than Jack and Jill….?

  110. avatar
    Obsolete April 9, 2012 at 11:38 pm #

    misha: No one could be as bad as Ed Wood.

    I would rather watch any Ed Wood movie ten times than watch “Jack & Jill” once…

  111. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2012 at 12:40 am #

    misha: No one could be as bad as Ed Wood.

    Ed Wood hasn’t made any films this decade.

    She does, however, have some stiff competition from Disney this year. “John Carter” is probably the worst book adaption in the history of filmdom.

    You know how some films show a disclaimer “This story is true. Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent’? The John Carter movie should have told everyone: “This plot is a forgery. Only the names have been kept to defame the author”.

  112. avatar
    J. Potter April 10, 2012 at 1:53 am #

    misha: No one could be as bad as Ed Wood.

    Ed Wood had style and originality, and was working on shoestring budgets. Jack & Jill is Hollywood again demonstrating how to extract crap from abundance.

  113. avatar
    Geir Smith April 10, 2012 at 3:56 am #

    sfjeff:
    Okay I figured out why she is listed as the executive producer- she sold the option on the screenplay apparently written by Ben Zook, who her company represents.

    Any relation to the death threats she got? Are you guys on a foereign planet, Hellooooooooo? What is wrong with you guys?

  114. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny April 10, 2012 at 8:06 am #

    JPotter: john: The truth now reveals ….. crazycrazyblahblah ….

    The truth’ now reveals? Which rev level of project module truth’ are we using this week?

    That module would be Minitruth, the one that ends all its exhortations with the revelation “We have always been at war with Eastasia.”

    If you believe this crap, Palin has a bridge to sell you/

    And if you don’t, she will sell you room 101 on Little Diomede.

  115. avatar
    BillTheCat April 10, 2012 at 5:30 pm #

    Obsolete: I would rather watch any Ed Wood movie ten times than watch “Jack & Jill” once…

    …or “Plan 9 From Outer Space” :)

  116. avatar
    Blackman April 10, 2012 at 5:48 pm #

    Even tho I am a black American, I was born here. It is clear that we have all been duped. The change he promised was that the evil elite who want to steal our wealth have put this bastard in power and what has he done? Bailed out his “friends” added $5 trillion in debt, put another 30m of my brothers and sisters on welfare, taken our rights away and ruined our country. He does not care about America. Growing up Muslim and born in Kenya-is it a surprise he would do anything other than destroy our country? Why not it is not his. Now it is coming out that he would kill Chelsea if Bill said anything? He killed Brietbart so it is easy to believe he would kill Chelsea. If any one of you vote for him in 2012, and he gets in, don’t be shocked when he the whole country and constitution no longer apply. The end of America will happen in his next term. Those who vote for him, are committing treason. NBC is his propaganda machine (GE owns NBC and as payment for their loyalty spewing Obamas lies, GE did not pay any taxes-pretty nice deal-oh and search for Obamas jobs czar you will see the connection) so while you idiots who support him are just like the Germans who supported Hitler. They are one in the same, Obama, the black Hitler with his throngs of devoted mindless brainwashed followers who are being led to enslavement and poverty. Have any one of you had your lives improve under his leadership? Have any of you seen any of his campaign promises come true? What about Obamacare? Do you want to be a robot that only does, eats and buys what the Gov tells you? We must defeat the Manchurian president. He is not our president he is not American he does not care about women or the black community, don’t be swayed by the media-they lie. Even FOX news can’t be trusted. Hilary and Bill , please put Chelsea in a safe place and tell Anerica the truth. We can survive the fallout we can handle the truth. There are at least 30-50m armed Americans many of us will be killed by UN troops who are here to enforce martial law. But they won’t kill us all and as our constitution compells us, we will fight and we will win. Imagine a public hanging for all of those who have participated in the coup. It will happen, you will not take our freedom and we will fight you-before that happens we have a chance … Please vote and remember a vote for Obama means you hate freedom and you hate America. Black, white, Asian and mexican must unite. He seeks to divide us, he wants us to hate each other he wants civil unrest and he is stoking the flames of racial hatred. NBC under direction of the white house edited the Zimmerman 911 tape to make it sound racist. Don’t fall into his trap, don’t let the media tell you there is a war in women or a race war- we are all Americans and we must unite and Obama must be deported back to his people in Kenya…

  117. avatar
    Keith April 11, 2012 at 1:06 am #

    BillTheCat: …or “Plan 9 From Outer Space”

    Even Glen or Glenda would be better than Beck or Pamela.

  118. avatar
    Paper April 11, 2012 at 2:20 am #

    Who threats who?

    http://textsfromhillaryclinton.tumblr.com/

  119. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 11, 2012 at 8:41 am #

    Blackman:
    Even tho I am a black American, I was born here.It is clear that we have all been duped.The change he promised was that the evil elite who want to steal our wealth have put this bastard in power and what has he done?Bailed out his “friends” added $5 trillion in debt, put another 30m of my brothers and sisters on welfare, taken our rights away and ruined our country.He does not care about America.Growing up Muslim and born in Kenya-is it a surprise he would do anything other than destroy our country?… we are all Americans and we must unite and Obama must be deported back to his people in Kenya…

    There are excellent anti-psychotic medications available these days. I suggest you look into it, as you are stark raving mad. Literally every single thing you said was a preposterous tabloid-grade lie, like “Elvis is alive” or “I slept with Bigfoot.”

    But somehow, you believe them. Quite sad, really.

    Please get help before you harm yourself or others.

  120. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 8:43 am #

    Blackman: He killed Brietbart

    Completely false. I was the one who killed Brietbart. I used ricin, as the KGB taught me. We did the same thing to Georgi Markov.

  121. avatar
    Arthur April 11, 2012 at 9:06 am #

    Blackman: Even tho I am a black American

    From an analysis of your prose, you are about as black as an Easter lily. I’d say that you are: white, over sixty five, collect social security, and love your your medicare. You have at least one chronic disease and have a nephew who is a “low-life Democrat living off the government.” You listen to Limbaugh, watch Fox News, try to masturbate to Megan Kelly, and are thinking about trying to get your hands on some Viagra.

  122. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 9:20 am #

    Arthur: You have at least one chronic disease

    Also, could use some thorazine.

  123. avatar
    Majority Will April 11, 2012 at 9:27 am #

    Thomas Brown: There are excellent anti-psychotic medications available these days.I suggest you look into it, as you are stark raving mad.Literally every single thing you said was a preposterous tabloid-grade lie, like “Elvis is alive”or “I slept with Bigfoot.”

    But somehow, you believe them.Quite sad, really.

    Please get help before you harm yourself or others.

    “I slept with Bigfoot.”

    Not a wink. :-D

  124. avatar
    Lupin April 11, 2012 at 10:26 am #

    Blackman: Even tho I am a black American,

    And I am from Romulac.

  125. avatar
    Greenfinches April 11, 2012 at 11:02 am #

    Blackman: please put Chelsea in a safe place

    You do know she isn’t a child any more?

    Hard to judge, since the rest of your post is crazy…… do seek help, in your own interest!

  126. avatar
    JPotter April 11, 2012 at 11:06 am #

    Blackman: Even tho I am a black American,

    *COUGH*

  127. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 11, 2012 at 11:07 am #

    The question is whether Arpaio will escape criminal charges and whether he will survive the civil lawsuits currently moving ahead against him. He’s lost his motion to dismiss in federal court and you know what comes next: discovery.

    Since you don’t seem to be able to come with any specifics about how someone nor from Arizona takes on Joe Arpaio, I assume you’re just bluster.

    Geir Smith: Go after him macho like you are with the Birthers. Don’t fear his badge. Take on someone with 50 years as a law enforcer and top law enforcer for the DOJ for thirty years

  128. avatar
    The Magic M April 11, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    Blackman: Those who vote for him, are committing treason.

    So another birther who wants to jail (or hang) 69 million fellow Americans for disagreeing with him. Why am I not surprised?

  129. avatar
    Geir Smith April 11, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The question is whether Arpaio will escape criminal charges and whether he will survive the civil lawsuits currently moving ahead against him. He’s lost his motion to dismiss in federal court and you know what comes next: discovery.

    Since you don’t seem to be able to come with any specifics about how someone nor from Arizona takes on Joe Arpaio, I assume you’re just bluster.

    I wonder why you think Obama’ll still be around in a few days. You do know they’re doing everything they can to jail him, don’t you? Obama’s toast – you do realize that don’t you? Stimulus, Obamacare? Gone. Obama’s next.

  130. avatar
    Geir Smith April 11, 2012 at 12:17 pm #

    I like who Dr Obot releases comments when they have less chance of making a splash. He holds them back for a week like they did in the Soviet Union. They release things when it’s a holiday and an off-day, so they can control peoples’ minds like in Aldous Huxley’s 1984 brave new World.

    [No, you idiot. I’m traveling overseas with a crummy Internet connection and only get a few chances to check moderation. However, nothing you’re saying has any impact, nor adds anything to the discussion anyway.]

  131. avatar
    Thrifty April 11, 2012 at 12:21 pm #

    Well, if an anonymous guy on a web site can post one completely unverifiable fact that is irrelevant to the rest of his paranoid screed, I’m on board!

    I think it’s cute that you thought:

    1) That we would believe this statement uncritically.
    2) That we don’t believe Birthers because they’re white, and not because they’re nuts.

    So I’m skeptical that you actually are black, but even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are, it is irrelevant.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, fellow anti-birthers, but aren’t there a few notable black birthers? I’m thinking Alan Keyes and James David Manning.

    Blackman: Even tho I am a black American, I was born here.

  132. avatar
    Bernard April 11, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

    I am really delighted to see that so many people took time out from their Dale Carnegie classes to exchange comments on this matter.

    So far the authenticity of Obama’s birth certificate has been attested to by the head of the Hawaii office of vital records, the director of the Hawaii Dept of Health (a Republican), the previous Governor of Hawaii (also a Republican), and the current Governor (who knew the Obama family in 1961 and personally remembers when they brought the baby home from the hospital).

    The authenticity of Obama’s birth certificate has been challenged only by people with no official standing, who base their accusations on the odd readings of Photoshop and other imaging software on the internet image of the birth certificate printed on green basket-weave security paper, evidently unaware of the weakness of Photoshop and the purpose and effect of the security paper. What we have not yet heard from are the experts who deal with security paper.

    As for the Rev. Manning, an example of his “investigation”: A couple of years ago he staged a mock trial in which he recruited a couple of his congregants to look up the old Columbia University yearbooks and testify that Obama was not listed in them. This was taken as terribly important. What he missed (I assume that neither he nor his assigned witnesses had studied at Columbia) is the fact that Obama was there as an UNDERgraduate and so went to the school known as Columbia College, on the same campus as Columbia University, but it has a separate yearbook (which listed Obama) and a separate school newspaper (which had an article about Obama while he was a student there).

    Idiots who make free with the accusation of treason seem to be trolling for an assassin.

  133. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 11, 2012 at 12:50 pm #

    Bernard:
    I am really delighted to see that so many people took time out from their Dale Carnegie classes to exchange comments on this matter.

    Right you are. I’ve always wanted to win frenzied influence peddlers.

  134. avatar
    Fazil Iskander April 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

    I call no fair-sies on this. If you guys are letting Mexicans vote, we Canadians want in.
    (Also, if “Blackman” is black, I’ll eat a peck of dirt for supper.)

    Blackman:
    Black, white, Asian and mexican must unite.

  135. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    Bernard: Idiots who make free with the accusation of treason seem to be trolling for an assassin.

    That is exactly what Orly and her ilk are doing. Orly is hoping to incite a lone wolf, and hiding behind free speech. She should try that garbage in Russia, and see what Putin thinks of it.

    Bernard: I am really delighted to see that so many people took time out from their Dale Carnegie classes

    Please, don’t say that when I’m drinking coffee.

  136. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 2:10 pm #

    Blackman: Those who vote for him, are committing treason.

    The Magic M: So another birther who wants to jail (or hang) 69 million fellow Americans for disagreeing with him.

    Sounds just like Adolf Schicklgruber.

  137. avatar
    Rickey April 11, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    Blackman:
    Those who vote for him, are committing treason.

    When the treason trials begin, how do you propose to prove that the defendants voted for Obama?

  138. avatar
    Dave B. April 11, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    I hear Spike TV’s got a new “Deadliest Warrior” episode in the works: Obama vs. Clinton. They ordered a whole trainload of pig carcasses for the weapons demonstrations.

  139. avatar
    Bernard April 11, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

    It’s sort of ironic (and funny, in a sick way) that so many people who are ultra-focused on the Constitutional provision about “natural-born citizen” (so ultra about it that they even add on extra requirements not mentioned in the Constitution) at the very same time are so extremely careless about the Constitutional definition (Art. III, sec. 3, cl. 1) that “Treason against the United States shall consist ONLY in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”

    The Founders deliberately adopted that definition – the only crime defined in the Constitution itself – to prevent positively the application of the vague and abused notion of “constructive treason” that had been used so often in British history.

  140. avatar
    dunstvangeet April 11, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    Bernard, they disregard every other provision…

    1. They completely reject the 400+ years of history on what “Natural Born” actually means in order to find some sort of definition that means that Obama can’t be President.

    2. They completely reject Article VI, Sec. 1 of the United States Constitution in order to continue believing that the birth certificate doesn’t actually prove that Obama was born in the United States and that won’t be accepted in a court of law.

    3. They completely reject the 20th Amendment which gives the power to determine the eligibility to the Congress, and instead want a court to jump in there and declare the President ineligible to be President.

    4. They completely reject Article II which spells out the way to remove the President and instead believe that the courts have the power to reject the President.

    I could go on and on. The only part of the Constitution that the birthers actually believe in is their misreading of Article II, Section 1.

  141. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 11, 2012 at 4:33 pm #

    Based on my investigation I think you pretty much nailed it.

    Arthur: From an analysis of your prose, you are about as black as an Easter lily. I’d say that you are: white, over sixty five, collect social security, and love your your medicare. You have at least one chronic disease and have a nephew who is a “low-life Democrat living off the government.” You listen to Limbaugh, watch Fox News, try to masturbate to Megan Kelly, and are thinking about trying to get your hands on some Viagra.

  142. avatar
    gorefan April 11, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: How long is “a few days?”

    30 days according to Dr. Taitz.

  143. avatar
    Bernard April 11, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    dunstvangeet:

    I think you meant Article IV sec 1 (full faith & credit), rather than Art. VI.

    It’s worth keeping in mind that only about 7 years ago a lot of these same people were agitating for a new Amendment that would remove the “natural-born” requirement so Ahnold Schwarzeneggar could run for Prez. Back then they said (and a lot of constitutional scholars agreed with them) that the old provision was no longer helpful – or particularly clear.

  144. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

    Scientist: Since InTrade will cost you $6 to win $10, an even money bet is a good deal.

    Intrade has Obama at 60.6, as I write. I’m sure Seamus is smiling from wherever dogs go, when they are let off the car roof.

  145. avatar
    Linda April 11, 2012 at 10:32 pm #

    Bernard: It’s sort of ironic (and funny, in a sick way) that so many people who are ultra-focused on the Constitutional provision about “natural-born citizen”…

    Yes, so do I. Like after the mid-terms in 2010 and the new Congress read the Constitution into the record…well, except for those parts they were embarrassed about. They were so high on the Constitution they said all new bills had to reference exactly which part authorized it…until that become tedious. The same people who advocated changing the 14th Amendment to exclude citizenship to illegal aliens. The same people who felt the need to propose a balanced budget amendment, etc.

  146. avatar
    Montana April 13, 2012 at 1:03 pm #

    Lets be clear none of these dullards have won a case in the “U.S. Courts”, maybe in theirr simple minds (if they have any) but not in our “U.S. Courts”, so unless Birthers/ teabaggers, whatever you want to be called, win a court case, “We The People” will continue to see as dullards, liars or racist or maybe all three. Deal with that baby!

    Oh,

    I hope you all will love standing behind the most conservative GOPer Romney, he is what you all deserve! He wil never be President, 1) because “so called” Evangelical conservatives hate his religion and 2) he flips more than he flops ….Deal with that baby!

  147. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 13, 2012 at 5:10 pm #

    I don’t think anyone would disagree with you about Arpaio’s agenda. It was clear when the Cold Case Posse selected WorldNetDaily as their principle source of information (Jerome Corsi and Mara Zebest). It’s the same pattern of abuse that he tried on Maricopa County Council members and judges and has put Sheriff Joe on the wrong end of a series of very nasty lawsuits (some of which he has already settled out of court).

    However effective he has been in taking down criminals, he has been much less effective at taking down innocent people and this is why his attack on Obama is doomed to fail.

    By the way, I am traveling with a retired Air Force major general who lives in Arizona. When I mentioned Sheriff Joe, he just rolled his eyes and made a disparaging remark.

    Geir Smith: I think Arpaio’s got an agenda for taking down Obama. He’ll not flub this case. He’s been doing the same job as this for 50 pus years and can take down criminals in any which way, easily.

  148. avatar
    Scientist April 13, 2012 at 6:31 pm #

    Geir Smith: He’s been doing the same job as this for 50 pus years

    50 pus years is an apt description of Arpaio’s soon-to-be-over reign of error.

  149. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 13, 2012 at 6:37 pm #

    Scientist: 50 pus years is an apt description of Arpaio’s soon-to-be-over reign of error.

    And once Arpaio and his reputation are suppurated, he may never rid himself of the smegma.

  150. avatar
    John Reilly April 14, 2012 at 12:20 am #

    Doc: “principle”?

  151. avatar
    misha April 14, 2012 at 1:08 am #

    John Reilly: Doc:“principle”?

    Those are my principles. If you don’t like them, I have others. – Groucho Marx

  152. avatar
    Keith April 14, 2012 at 8:07 am #

    misha:
    No, “Jack” is referring to words that concern Sam.

    Or mischievous stuff that Sam gets up to.

  153. avatar
    gorefan April 14, 2012 at 7:34 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: their principle source of information (Jerome Corsi and Mara Zebest).

    Corsi interviews this Bettina Viviano and she talks about Bill Clinton making comments that President Obama is not a citizen. But when she gave an interview last fall she never mentions it.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/11/hollywood-movie-producer-speaks-out.html

    Funny. It reminds me of something Mara Zebest said back in 2008 about living to make a mockery of Barack Obama.

  154. avatar
    Arthur April 15, 2012 at 12:54 pm #

    According to Orly’s website, Ms. Taitz has subpoenaed Bettina Viviano to appear at a deposition.

    Is Viviano under any threat of perjury if she cooperates, or is the chance that Orly would submit her deposition in a real trial so slight that Viviano can basically say whatever she wants?

  155. avatar
    gorefan April 15, 2012 at 1:48 pm #

    Arthur: Is Viviano under any threat of perjury if she cooperates

    Her statements will never make into court in any form.

  156. avatar
    katahdin April 15, 2012 at 2:28 pm #

    Birther are unwise (yeah I know) to rely on Viviano’s testimony since it could easily be contradicted by President or Secretary Clinton.

    Arthur:
    According to Orly’s website, Ms. Taitz has subpoenaed Bettina Viviano to appear at a deposition.

    Is Viviano under any threat of perjury if she cooperates, or is the chance that Orly would submit her deposition in a real trial so slight that Viviano can basically say whatever she wants?

  157. avatar
    John Reilly April 15, 2012 at 3:12 pm #

    Arthur, as I read the document on Dr. Taitz’s web site, it is a trial subpoena (Dr. Taitz being unable to distinguish between a trial subpoena and a deposition subpoena) and it is issued by Dr. Taitz as an attorney, even though Dr. Taitz is not an attorney in the case listed in the subpoena, and she confirms that. Moreover, I have not seen any application by Dr. Taitz in Mississippi to btake an out-of-state deposition.

    As with any court proceeding, Ms. Viviano would be subject to a perjury charge if she lies. But, really, what does she know? That Bill Clinton said something to her? That would be hearsay. If President Clinton was actually called to testify he would say President Obama is a natural born citizen and no threats were ever made. And he never said what Ms. Viviano claims he said. What a giant rat hole.

    And, of course, none of this bears on whether President Obama is actually eligible, or whether Mississippi has any role in the matter at all.

    Dr, Taitz confirms that some species cannot learn and adapt. This business with how to subpoena a witness has come up often. She just doesn’t get it. Isn;’ this covered in law school? On the bar exam? In “Law for Dummies?”

  158. avatar
    misha April 15, 2012 at 3:26 pm #

    John Reilly: Dr, Taitz confirms that some species cannot learn and adapt.

    Her species is classified as ‘meshuggah refusenik’.

  159. avatar
    misha April 15, 2012 at 3:35 pm #

    John Reilly: In “Law for Dummies?”

    She knows about “Law for Dummies,” but there isn’t anyone who has read it to her. As soon as she can find someone to read it and explain it, she’ll catch on.

    Sort of like bedtime stories for adults.

  160. avatar
    Arthur April 15, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    John Reilly: As with any court proceeding, Ms. Viviano would be subject to a perjury charge if she lies. But, really, what does she know? That Bill Clinton said something to her? That would be hearsay.

    Thanks, John, for your explanation. I’m still unclear about under what circumstances you can lie in a subpoena with impunity and when a lie can get you in trouble.

  161. avatar
    Rachael N. Jacobs April 15, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    I would suggest to all who are interested that Senate Resolution 511, which vetted John McCain contains deliberately misleading language regarding “natural born citizen” and the Constitution. While it does not explain the term, the Supreme Court, in 1875, did explain it quite nicely. If, in fact, many in DC believe that’s the correct definition and have said as much, why did Nancy Pelosi have one certification for the convention, but submit 50 different authorizations to the states’ Democratic Parties in ’08. This can be found at several websites with photocopy proof that the ones received by the states contained no mention of the Constitution. This IS the most outrageous fraud ever wrought on this nation. Since he’s illegally occupying the White House, he’s not my president and all laws, regulations, and executive orders signed by him or his minions are also null and void . . . and so is the election of 2008.

  162. avatar
    gorefan April 15, 2012 at 4:53 pm #

    Rachael N. Jacobs: While it does not explain the term, the Supreme Court, in 1875, did explain it

    Sorry, Rachael, the Supreme Court did not explain it in the Minor v. Happersett case. It was define in 1898 in the Wong Kim Ark case.

    But even going back to the time of the founding, the term meant anyone born in the United States.

    “Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity. “ William Rawle.

    Did you know that William Rawle was a personal friend of Benjamin Franklin, and appointed by President Washington to be the United States Attorney for Pennsylvania?

  163. avatar
    misha April 15, 2012 at 4:54 pm #

    Rachael N. Jacobs: This IS the most outrageous fraud ever wrought on this nation. Since he’s illegally occupying the White House, he’s not my president and all laws, regulations, and executive orders signed by him or his minions are also null and void . . . and so is the election of 2008.

    You do have some valid concerns. I found a Kenya BC (Obama’s?) that may be what you are looking for.

  164. avatar
    gorefan April 15, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    Rachael N. Jacobs: If, in fact, many in DC believe that’s the correct definition and have said as much

    BTW, in five recent court decisions the definition of “natural born Citizen” were based on the Wong Kim Ark decision.

  165. avatar
    Dave April 15, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    Rachael N. Jacobs:
    This IS the most outrageous fraud ever wrought on this nation.

    What is the second most outrageous fraud?

  166. avatar
    Arthur April 15, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

    Rachel N. Jacobs is on F.B. Check out her Wall to see the kind of “news” items she likes (e.g., Western Center for Journalism and anti-Obama Youtube videos). From the apparent age of her friends, Rachel is experiencing a bout of senioritis. Poor dear.

  167. avatar
    misha April 15, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    Rachael N. Jacobs:This IS the most outrageous fraud ever wrought on this nation.

    Dave: What is the second most outrageous fraud?

    I know, I know. Can I play?

    “The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa” – GW Bush about WMDs in Iraq.

  168. avatar
    Keith April 15, 2012 at 5:56 pm #

    Rachael N. Jacobs: This IS the most outrageous fraud ever wrought on this nation.

    While I agree with you that the birthers are attempting to defraud the country, I disagree that it is the most outrageous ever.

    For a start, the non-existent WMD’s in Iraq, and using them as an excuse to plunder the American economy for the benefit of the Vice President’s cronies (not to mention to kill and maim thousands of innocent people) is much more outrageous, costly, and damaging to our reputation overseas.

    Other than Iraq, the investigation and eventual impeachment of Bill Clinton was probably the most outrageous fraud of the last 25 years.

    I’m sure we could go back into history and come up with more outrageous frauds and attempted frauds in just about every decade of the nation’s history. Tea-Pot Dome comes to mind. The “Sovereign Citizen tax avoidance” scheme. The anti-vaccination scandal. The “Milli Vanilli is an Actual Musical Act” scandal. New recipe Coca-cola and Log Cabin syrup.

    These are all much more outrageous frauds perpetrated on the American people than that of a few nutcases that can’t accept a black man as President.

  169. avatar
    Wile April 15, 2012 at 6:39 pm #

    gorefan: BTW, in five recent court decisions the definition of “natural born Citizen” were based onthe Wong Kim Ark decision.

    Help me be able to cite those five.

    Off the top of my my head I’ve got Ankeny, Malihi in GA, and Puzo in NJ.

    Que mas?

  170. avatar
    John Reilly April 15, 2012 at 6:59 pm #

    I would like to remind Ms. Jacobs that since anything President Obama has signed is not valid, the Bush Tax Cuts have expired. Ms. Jacobs, you may send your check, made payable to the Internal Revenue Service, to your local IRS office. Please send a letter of explanation that you do not like receiving tax breaks which were signed into law by an illegal president.

  171. avatar
    John Reilly April 15, 2012 at 7:02 pm #

    Arthur, I think people lie all the time, including under oath. I think there are very few perjury arrests and convictions.

    There also do not appear to be many arrests for impersonating an attorney. (I’m an engineer, so don’t blame me for the inability of the California bar to police its own.)

  172. avatar
    gorefan April 15, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

    Wile: Que mas?

    Tenemos,

    “The court rules that the Complaint does not state a claim upon which relief may be granted. The eligibility requirements to be President of the United States are such that the individual must be a “natural born citizen” of the United States and at least thirty-five years of age. U.S. Const. art II Section 1. It is well settled that those born in the United States are considered natural born citizens. See, e.g. United States v. Ark, 169 U.S. 649,
    702 (1898)” Judge Gibney Jr. in Tisdale v. Obama

    y

    “Most importantly, Arizona courts are bound by United States Supreme Court precedent in construing the United States Constitution, Arizona v. Jay J. Garfield Bldg. Co., 39 Ariz. 45, 54, 3 P.2d 983, 986(1931), and this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution and thus qualified to hold the office of President. See United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702-03(1898) (addressing U. S. Const. amend. XIV); Ankeny v. Governor of the State of Indiana, 916 N.E.2d 678,684-88 (Ind. App. 2010) (addressing the precise issue). Contrary to Plaintiff’s assertion, Minor v. Happersett ,88 U.S. 162 (1874), does not hold otherwise.” Arizona Superior Court Judge Richard Gordon, Allen v. Obama

  173. avatar
    Sef April 15, 2012 at 7:16 pm #

    gorefan: Sorry, Rachael, the Supreme Court did not explain it in the Minor v. Happersett case. It was define in 1898 in the Wong Kim Ark case.

    The Minor decision also said that there were only two ways of becoming a citizen: birth or naturalization, thus saying that there are only two types of citizen: NBC or naturalized. So, since anyone born in the jurisdiction of the U.S. is a citizen & they do not obtain their citizenship through naturalization, they must be NBC.

  174. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater April 15, 2012 at 7:29 pm #

    Keith: While I agree with you that the birthers are attempting to defraud the country, I disagree that it is the most outrageous ever.

    For a start, the non-existent WMD’s in Iraq, and using them as an excuse to plunder the American economy for the benefit of the Vice President’s cronies (not to mention to kill and maim thousands of innocent people) is much more outrageous, costly, and damaging to our reputation overseas.

    Other than Iraq, the investigation and eventual impeachment of Bill Clinton was probably the most outrageous fraud of the last 25 years.

    I’m sure we could go back into history and come up with more outrageous frauds and attempted frauds in just about every decade of the nation’s history. Tea-Pot Dome comes to mind. The “Sovereign Citizen tax avoidance” scheme. The anti-vaccination scandal. The “Milli Vanilli is an Actual Musical Act” scandal. New recipe Coca-cola and Log Cabin syrup.

    These are all much more outrageous frauds perpetrated on the American people than that of a few nutcases that can’t accept a black man as President.

    What about the salsa that’s made in new york city?

  175. avatar
    Sef April 15, 2012 at 7:45 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: What about the salsa that’s made in new york city?

    Or anything with “high fructose corn syrup” in it instead of cane sugar.

  176. avatar
    Keith April 15, 2012 at 7:59 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: What about the salsa that’s made in new york city?

    Sorry, I don’t know whether that is fraud or not. I figure anyone can make salsa. I make my own in Australia. I make a pretty good Salsa even if I do say so myself, but I do sometimes wish I could get Desert Rose Commemoratva (made in Tucson) though.

    Does the New York one say its “Mexican Salsa”? I guess that would be a fraud, just like the “Idaho Potatoes” and the “Virginia Ham” they try to defraud us with down here.

    (Hmmmmmph! A quick google for Desert Rose (I was going to link to their web page) indicates they have moved to Scottsdale. Or maybe Florida. Dunno. Anyway, they don’t seem to have a corporate web page. If they are really in Florida, then I’d call that a fraud, I think. They are listed on someone’s “History of Salsa” page as an early (1976) commercial gourmet salsa. Commemorativa (purposely misspelled) is always a limited availability version, extra hot, extra tasty, beautiful stuff.)

  177. avatar
    Northland10 April 15, 2012 at 8:46 pm #

    This is one of the few bills that passed that could have eligible for a “pocket veto.” In other words, if Obama did not sign it, it would be the same as a veto as the Congress would be out of session (unlike the bills that would automatically become law without his signature). As for their hated “Obamacare” that would be law, even without Obama.

    It is nice of them to allow Obama to hide more of his Presidential records since, by their standard, it would revert to the more stringent Bush executive order on Presidential Records.

    John Reilly:
    I would like to remind Ms. Jacobs that since anything President Obama has signed is not valid, the Bush Tax Cuts have expired.Ms. Jacobs, you may send your check, made payable to the Internal Revenue Service, to your local IRS office.Please send a letter of explanation that you do not like receiving tax breaks which were signed into law by an illegal president.

  178. avatar
    J. Potter April 15, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    Keith: These are all much more outrageous frauds perpetrated on the American people than that of a few nutcases that can’t accept a black man as President.

    The attempts by ‘chocolate makers’ to convince the FDA to redefine what ‘chocolate’ is (i.e., dropping requirement of the use of actual cocoa butter) ranks high on my list. I don’t think I’m alone on this one.

  179. avatar
    Rickey April 16, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    Arthur: Thanks, John, for your explanation. I’m still unclear about under what circumstances you can lie in a subpoena with impunity and when a lie can get you in trouble.

    A lie under oath isn’t perjury unless it relates to a material fact. Let’s say that you are married but you have a mistress and you have told your mistress that you are divorced. Your mistress gets into an accident and you are called as a witness. One of the attorneys asks about your marital status, and you testify that you are divorced. That would be a lie under oath, but almost certainly not perjury because is it not material to the case.

    As for Orly, she has filed an action in a state court in Mississippi, in which the Secretary of State of Mississippi is a defendant. So she serves California subpoenas upon Bettina Sofia Viviano and Gina Gaston to provide inadmissible hearsay evidence at a deposition to be held this Friday in Orly’s office.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/89541465/MS-2012-04-15-TAITZ-Emergency-Petition-for-Subpoena-for-Viviano-Gaston

    That should work out really well. I am sure that Mississippi’s Attorney General will have no objection to flying to California for Orly’s convenience.

  180. avatar
    Keith April 16, 2012 at 7:16 pm #

    J. Potter: The attempts by chocolate makers’ to convince the FDA to redefine what chocolate’ is (i.e., dropping requirement of the use of actual cocoa butter) ranks high on my list. I don’t think I’m alone on this one.

    Well, if they can decide that pizza is a vegetable, why can’t chocolate be made out of coal tar?

  181. avatar
    traderjack April 16, 2012 at 8:12 pm #

    “Other than Iraq, the investigation and eventual impeachment of Bill Clinton was probably the most outrageous fraud of the last 25 years. ”

    How in hell was that a fraud. Oh, the cigar was not a Havana cigar? Oh, it really wasn’t under the desk, it was on top of the desk! Oh, it wasn’t a stain on the dress, it was a drool from the drooler. Oh, Clinton was just drooling as he was nuzzling the goodies! Oh, it wasn’t her it was someone else under the desk.

    Yeah, that is it it was all a fraud,and everyone knows that “is:” in not “is” when testifying under oath, and besides everyone does it, don’t they.

  182. avatar
    Scientist April 16, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

    traderjack: How in hell was that a fraud. Oh, the cigar was not a Havana cigar? Oh, it really wasn’t under the desk, it was on top of the desk! Oh, it wasn’t a stain on the dress, it was a drool from the drooler. Oh, Clinton was just drooling as he was nuzzling the goodies! Oh, it wasn’t her it was someone else under the desk.

    How in the hell is that high crimes and misdemeanors? The Republicans wiped their butts with the Constitution…

  183. avatar
    J. Potter April 16, 2012 at 8:41 pm #

    traderjack: How in hell was that a fraud.

    Open the lens wider and refocus, Jackie-me-boy.

  184. avatar
    J. Potter April 16, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

    Keith: Well, if they can decide that pizza is a vegetable, why can’t chocolate be made out of coal tar?

    Well, there are (hyper-processed) components in a typical pizza, but no coal tar in … uh…. chocolate … hmmm. “Chocolate” maybe, but never chocolate. Yet. Hopefully not until I go diabetic.

  185. avatar
    Arthur April 16, 2012 at 10:30 pm #

    Rickey: A lie under oath isn’t perjury unless it relates to a material fact. Let’s say that you are married but you have a mistress and you have told your mistress that you are divorced. Your mistress gets into an accident and you are called as a witness. One of the attorneys asks about your marital status, and you testify that you are divorced. That would be a lie under oath, but almost certainly not perjury because is it not material to the case.As for Orly, she has filed an action in a state court in Mississippi, in which the Secretary of State of Mississippi is a defendant. So she serves California subpoenas upon Bettina Sofia Viviano and Gina Gaston to provide inadmissible hearsay evidence at a deposition to be held this Friday in Orly’s office. http://www.scribd.com/doc/89541465/MS-2012-04-15-TAITZ-Emergency-Petition-for-Subpoena-for-Viviano-GastonThat should work out really well. I am sure that Mississippi’s Attorney General will have no objection to flying to California for Orly’s convenience.

    Thanks for your explanation, Rickey. I can make more sense of it now.

  186. avatar
    misha April 16, 2012 at 11:06 pm #

    Rickey: That would be a lie under oath, but almost certainly not perjury because is it not material to the case.

    Here’s another scenario: A man dressed as a high ranking German army officer rings your doorbell. He offers to sell you a subscription to Look or Life magazine. Then he tells you if you buy a subscription right now, he’ll give you a high quality hair brush from Fuller Brush.

    Is he merely lying, or commiting perjury? And how much is that hair brush really worth?

  187. avatar
    Keith April 17, 2012 at 12:49 am #

    traderjack: How in hell was that a fraud.

    It was fraudulent to the tune of at minimum $60 million dollars of tax payer money.

    $60 million dollars to investigate something that had been investigated 3 times and nothing found worth investigating, let alone finding fault.

    $60 million dollars to violate the sanctity of the Grand Jury system and publish secret testimony.

    $60 million dollars to prepare a pornographic novel and have it published by the Congressional Printing Office.

    $60 million dollars to defraud the President of the United States into testifying to a Grand Jury about personal relationships that have absolutely nothing to do with anybody except him, his family, and the other individuals involved.

    $60 million dollars to run a 3 year political vendetta against the President of the United States.

    $60 millions dollars to throw mud at a President that was so effective and popular and an opposition party so bereft of alternative policies that all they could do was throw mud and hope something stuck.

    This time around they have found a cheaper way to throw mud.

  188. avatar
    traderjack April 17, 2012 at 1:40 am #

    the high crime was testifiy under oath that he did not have sex with that woman!

    or perhaps testifying under oath is not perjurious if the person is a democratic, but if a republican it is a crime

    So, you think it is a waste of money to try to impeach a president who lies under oath, I then assume you would not be able to find no way to impeach a president at all, if , in fact , the president is a Democrat.

  189. avatar
    nbc April 17, 2012 at 2:46 am #

    So, you think it is a waste of money to try to impeach a president who lies under oath, I then assume you would not be able to find no way to impeach a president at all, if , in fact , the president is a Democrat.

    It depends on the lie, I would argue. This had nothing to do with his ability to lead our nation. It’s sad that we pursue impeachments for this and fail to pursue them when Presidents lie to start an unnecessary war that cost the lives of thousands of US servicemen, and hundreds of thousands of others.

  190. avatar
    Lupin April 17, 2012 at 3:06 am #

    traderjack: So, you think it is a waste of money to try to impeach a president who lies under oath, I then assume you would not be able to find no way to impeach a president at all, if , in fact , the president is a Democrat.

    The problem is the lack of accountability: it is clear that President Bush, VP Cheney, Secretary Rumsfeld and many others lied to Congress and the United Nations during their escalation to war in Iraq; yet a DEMOCRATIC president has proposed to rurn a blind eye towards these crimes.

    Let me remind you that U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, America’s senior representative at the 1945 Nuremberg war crimes trials, and the tribunal’s chief prosecutor, said:”We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it. And we must not allow ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war, for our position is that no grievances or policies will justify resort to aggressive war. It is utterly renounced and condemned as an instrument of policy.”

    Since no Republican that I know of has advocated the arrest and trial of these officials, your claims to care for the Law are hypocritical at best, asinine at worst.

    Don’t think that the world is unaware of it either: to the majority, your country now harbors and protects war criminals, and the persons listed above are likely to not be able to leave your country’s borders in the future, or risk being arrested.

  191. avatar
    Lupin April 17, 2012 at 3:10 am #

    As for the Clinton impeachment, it was a thinly disguised coup that no truly democratic country would have tolerated for a minute.

    When Truman fired MacArthur, there were rumblings of impeachment, for example, but that was at a time when the body politic still had a lawful bone in its body.

  192. avatar
    Keith April 17, 2012 at 3:22 am #

    traderjack: the high crime was testifiy under oath that he did not have sex with that woman!

    The higher crime was to ask him the question in the first place!

    Sexual relations between consenting adults is not only not illegal, it is none of the business of a Grand Jury, nor a taxpayer funded Special Prosecutor engaged for the purpose of investigating alleged shady property deals.

    It was also blatantly illegal to release secret Grand Jury testimony, especially before any trial to which it might have relevance. And especially when its only purpose is to pursue a political agenda, by a politically motivated, taxpayer funded, Congressionally appointed Special Prosecutor.

    Remember your history. The impeachment trial found him INNOCENT, and his popularity among the electorate peaked just before the trial and held consistently above 60% for the rest of his term. He retired from office as one of the most popular Presidents of the 20th century. He is the only President to leave office higher rated than when he entered it since at least WW2.

    So yes, $60 million dollars was a waste of money.

    It was a waste of money because the investigation found nothing and kept going anyway. It was a waste of money because the investigators threw legality and common decency out of the window and invented a charge of “Presidenting under the influence of testosterone”. And it was a waste of money because the Congress and the Investigator didn’t accomplish their political goals of smearing the President either.

    Maybe if, when they got to $17 million and determined that there was nothing to the Whitewater Scandal, they had called it a day, then maybe it could have been said that it was justified, even if several State level investigation had already demonstrated that there was nothing there. But to keep it going for years and millions of dollars down the plug hole is nothing short of a political vendetta.

    The investigation and the investigator were both motivated by a desire to defraud the American public. Their singular task was to find something, anything, to smear the President. When nothing real could be found, they manufactured outrage, and a set of nonsense charges.

    That the American public didn’t buy it (even if they did pay for it!), speaks reams for the highly honed built in Bull Sh!t meter of the American citizen. It also explains the campaign ever since by the Fright Wing media, Faux News, the Murdoch press, the Koch Brothers funded Tea Party and other lobbyists, and the rest of the ultra-conservative commentariat to blunt and suppress those very Bull Sh!t meters.

  193. avatar
    Keith April 17, 2012 at 3:24 am #

    Keith: He is the only President to leave office higher rated than when he entered it since at least WW2.

    Sorry. Correction in bold.

  194. avatar
    Keith April 17, 2012 at 3:29 am #

    nbc: It’s sad that we pursue impeachments for this and fail to pursue them when Presidents lie to start an unnecessary war that cost the lives of thousands of US servicemen, and hundreds of thousands of others.

    You said it, Brother!

  195. avatar
    Keith April 17, 2012 at 3:36 am #

    Lupin: Don’t think that the world is unaware of it either: to the majority, your country now harbors and protects war criminals, and the persons listed above are likely to not be able to leave your country’s borders in the future, or risk being arrested.

    Absolutely. There is already ‘evidence’ that both Cheney and Bush have canceled overseas trips for this very reason.

    To be truthful, it is unlikely that they would be arrested, but it is possible that some prosecutor, in some country like Portugal maybe, might try to make a name for themselves by embarrassing them if they had the chance.

    And more power to ‘em I say.

  196. avatar
    Lupin April 17, 2012 at 6:44 am #

    Keith: Absolutely. There is already evidence’ that both Cheney and Bush have canceled overseas trips for this very reason.

    To be truthful, it is unlikely that they would be arrested, but it is possible that some prosecutor, in some country like Portugal maybe, might try to make a name for themselves by embarrassing them if they had the chance.

    And more power to em I say.

    Give it time, I say.

    No one would have dared go after Kissinger even in the 80s… Now if he steps foot in Europe, Germany and Austria will pounce and likely Spain too because of his role in Chile.

    In ten years, I bet Bush will be a virtual world pariah condemned to stay in the US or visit only countries like Paraguay.

    From a domestic standpoint, I suppose Obama’s virtual “amnesty” (but only of right-wing criminals; AFAIK his DOJ still goes after lefties) makes sense; but internationally, it makes the US look very bad.

    Even Chile and Argentina, in time, have gone after their own criminals.

  197. avatar
    Majority Will April 17, 2012 at 7:38 am #

    Keith: It was a waste of money because the investigation found nothing and kept going anyway.

    And amazingly, few conservatives seem to care that Clinton’s infidelity was being harshly and repeatedly condemned by then Speaker Newt Gingrich who at the time was cheating on his wife which he later openly admitted.

    But then, delusional fright wingers and birthers thrive on hypocrisy.

  198. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny April 17, 2012 at 7:56 am #

    Lupin: In ten years, I bet Bush will be a virtual world pariah condemned to stay in the US or visit only countries like Paraguay.

    From a domestic standpoint, I suppose Obama’s virtual “amnesty” (but only of right-wing criminals; AFAIK his DOJ still goes after lefties) makes sense; but internationally, it makes the US look very bad.

    Even Chile and Argentina, in time, have gone after their own criminals.

    Ahum.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush%E2%80%93Aznar_memo

    As far as I know, no judge in Spain has ever tried to prosecute Aznar over Iraq, though it is obvious that he and Condoleezza Rice were prepared to trick Chirac and Putin into joining the coalition using forged evidence and perhaps even suggested the foul play. Ironically, it was Bush himself who argued against that maneuvre, because Chirac in his eyes was an Arabophile who would never be convinced.

    Aznar has not even be prosecuted for funnelling government to American pressure groups to get himself awarded aith the Congressional Gold Medal because of siding with the USA over Iraq.

    And I am not even mentioning young daddy Blair, of course. If England ever decides to get its house in order, I guess Condoleezza and Jasper will have to meet in the USA from now on. :)

    I agree it is not entirely comparable, with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld being the instigators of the crime, and Blair, Aznar and Rice merely co-conspirators (though Tony would probably be very proud to claim on the witness stand that he was a main instigator too, and not the lap dog) but how can you get at foreign ex-heads of state if you are not prepared to go after your own?

  199. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny April 17, 2012 at 7:59 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: for funnelling government to American pressure groups

    funnelling government MONEY to American pressure groups

    By the way, is not that kind of thing sort of illegal in the USA?

  200. avatar
    roadburner April 17, 2012 at 8:15 am #

    Keith: That the American public didn’t buy it (even if they did pay for it!), speaks reams for the highly honed built in Bull Sh!t meter of the American citizen. It also explains the campaign ever since by the Fright Wing media, Faux News, the Murdoch press, the Koch Brothers funded Tea Party and other lobbyists, and the rest of the ultra-conservative commentariat to blunt and suppress those very Bull Sh!t meters.

    i couldnt help but wonder at the time if the main bit of evidence was the thin that shot them in the foot.

    why in gods name would a girl keep a dress with a cumstain on it in a plastic bag? nostalgia? memories of better times?

    maybe just told to keep it for future reference. it smelled of a stitch-up at the time, and obviously the american public didnt fall for it.

    at least at the time they had a president that they then knew for certain didnt need viagra :D

  201. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2012 at 8:18 am #

    It would be illegal for a foreigner to contribute to a PAC, but there are foreign lobbying groups that are legal.

    There is a Foreign Agents Registration Act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying_in_the_United_States#Foreign_lobbying

    Paul Pieniezny: funnelling government MONEY to American pressure groups

    By the way, is not that kind of thing sort of illegal in the USA?

  202. avatar
    roadburner April 17, 2012 at 8:22 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: Ahum.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush%E2%80%93Aznar_memoAs far as I know, no judge in Spain has ever tried to prosecute Aznar over Iraq,

    the only person here who would have had the balls to do so is in the crap at the moment.

    judge baltazar garzon made the mistake of investigating corruption by members of the partido popular here as well as crimes of the franco era. the result was an all-out campaign to get him by any means possible by the political right here.

    the result is that garzon is compromised, and with the PP in power again, aznar getting prosecuted is about as likely to be seen as satan going to work on skis.

  203. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2012 at 8:44 am #

    Perhaps this is a good time to refer back to Laurence Tribe’s testimony before the House Committee on the Judiciary in 1998: Defining “High Crimes and Misdemeanors”: Basic Principles.

    Tribe said in his testimony:

    What, then, did “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” mean when those words were inserted into the Constitution? The surrounding text gives us more than a slight clue, for the words are embedded in the larger phrase, “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” The word “other” is a dead giveaway: high crimes and misdemeanors are offenses that bear some strong resemblance to the flagship offenses listed by the framers — treason and bribery. That the framers’ choice of words here was entirely deliberate is most clearly shown by the fact that, when it came to the very different question of which offenses would be subject to interstate extradition, the framers began with the categories “treason, felony, or high misdemeanor,”(8) but ended by replacing the phrase “high misdemeanor” with the phrase “other crime,”(9) which evidently seemed more appropriate in a constitutional provision — Article IV, Section 2, clause 2 — dealing not with abuse of power or subversion of the constitutional order but with ordinary common-law or statutory crime. That alone should tell us that reading Article II’s reference to “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” as some sort of shorthand for major and minor criminal offenses, or even as shorthand for felonies — that is, for the most serious crimes — would be a mistake. When the Constitution’s authors meant to identify a particularly serious category of crime, they knew just how to do it. Thus, not only does the Interstate Extradition Clause speak of persons “charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime,” but the Privilege from Arrest Clause speaks of congressional immunity from arrest during attendance of a congressional session “in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace.” Article I, Section 6, clause 1. And the Grand Jury Clause of Amendment V guarantees “a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury,” with certain military exceptions, whenever a person is “held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime.”

    traderjack: the high crime was testifiy under oath that he did not have sex with that woman!

  204. avatar
    Lupin April 17, 2012 at 10:08 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: As far as I know, no judge in Spain has ever tried to prosecute Aznar over Iraq, though it is obvious that he and Condoleezza Rice were prepared to trick Chirac and Putin into joining the coalition using forged evidence and perhaps even suggested the foul play. Ironically, it was Bush himself who argued against that maneuvre, because Chirac in his eyes was an Arabophile who would never be convinced.

    Aznar has not even be prosecuted for funnelling government to American pressure groups to get himself awarded aith the Congressional Gold Medal because of siding with the USA over Iraq.

    And I am not even mentioning young daddy Blair, of course. If England ever decides to get its house in order, I guess Condoleezza and Jasper will have to meet in the USA from now on. :)

    I agree it is not entirely comparable, with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld being the instigators of the crime, and Blair, Aznar and Rice merely co-conspirators (though Tony would probably be very proud to claim on the witness stand that he was a main instigator too, and not the lap dog) but how can you get at foreign ex-heads of state if you are not prepared to go after your own?

    I can’t speak about Spain, but there was a movie about the trial of Tony Blair on the BBC a year or so ago. I think the idea has begun to percolate.

  205. avatar
    Lupin April 17, 2012 at 10:10 am #

    Majority Will: But then, delusional fright wingers and birthers thrive on hypocrisy.

    Of course, my point wasn’t that Clinton was right, but that anyone who feels that he violated the Rule of Law ought to first prove that he was equally indignant over Bush’s far more egregious actions.

    None of them ever do, proving that they’re all hypocrites.