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Zee big lie

I spent today in Berlin, and while most vestiges of The Third Reich have been torn down, a few historical markers remain, and one could not be in that place without being reminded of the Nazi regime and of how they came to and retained power while doing things that horrify normal people. The Nazis kept power through lies and intimidation, and above all they tried to maintain a façade of legitimacy over everything. Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf:

…in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

In this birther business, which group is right and which has fallen for a colossal lie?

On the other hand we have Obama born in Hawaii, announcements from the Health Bureau in two competing contemporary Honolulu newspapers, written statements that Obama was born in Honolulu from the State Department archives from the month of his birth. Fast forward to this decade where we have two birth certificates with the backing of the Hawaii Department of Health (under two administrations). We find a total of zero Americans traveling from Kenya to the US by air in the entire year ending June 30, 1962. In some crazy world perhaps the Hawaii Department of Health was co-opted and maybe the State Department faked a 1961 memo in its files. But announcements in microfilm copies of 1961 Honolulu newspapers don’t suddenly appear, and statistical reports of travelers to the US from 1962 don’t change because of some modern conspiracy.

It is more than obvious who has been taken in by a colossal lie and who knows the objective truth, but even though the birthers are presented with the objective facts, they, as Hitler predicted, still try to find some other explanation.

201 Responses to Zee big lie

  1. avatar
    Egh April 9, 2012 at 5:21 pm #

    http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2012_03_01_archive.html

    Something here about a us birth in Kenya in 1961, don’t know if you have had a chance to look at and debunk this info. Maybe when you get back.

    Enjoy Berlin, you lucky.

  2. avatar
    Sef April 9, 2012 at 5:31 pm #

    Egh:
    http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2012_03_01_archive.html

    Something here about a us birth in Kenya in 1961, don’t know if you have had a chance to look at and debunk this info.Maybe when you get back.

    Enjoy Berlin, you lucky.

    Doc has already dealt with this lie. Check out http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-part-1/ and others following.

  3. avatar
    Arthur April 9, 2012 at 5:47 pm #

    Hitler? Obama is Hitler–thought everyone knew that. They certainly know that at the comments section of ORYR,

    “Please…any sherriff…if you have any courage…you must support Sherriff Joe and the investigation…Hitler was ignored too long and 55 million people died…Obama is heading in the same direction in a country where we would think it could never happen…we must support (sic) this evil now!”

  4. avatar
    justlw April 9, 2012 at 5:57 pm #

    “But announcements in microfilm copies of 1961 Honolulu newspapers don’t suddenly appear…”

    This reminds me of one of my favorite bits from the classic conspiracy film Capricorn One: our hero, the intrepid reporter, is contacted by his friend, a NASA engineer, who tells him there’s something funny about the Mars mission that’s in progress… .

    Intrepid Reporter later goes to follow up with the engineer, only to find that a completely different family is now living in the engineer’s apartment — and he’s been removed from the Houston phone book.

    Obama only wishes he could conspire like that.

  5. avatar
    sponson April 9, 2012 at 6:25 pm #

    As the quote from Mein Kampf says, people “will continue to think that there maybe some other explanation.” I believe what the infamous author meant is that this is what they will do when confronted with solid evidence that the one who would manipulate them is lying. I believe the question to ask in Dr. C’s very relevant analogy is, who is the big liar in the situation of the fabricated Obama birthed conspiracy theories? What is their goal? How do they compare to the author of Mein Kampf?

  6. avatar
    Chef April 9, 2012 at 6:30 pm #

    On the other hand, you’ve got Obama, a Harvard-trained lawyer, presenting evidence how and when he feels like it, in a manner never acceptable in trial or discovery, in a graphics format never before seen in simple scanning methodology, done by a top-secret staffer who can’t be named, with layering that can’t be explained away.

    Who be lying to whom? Methinks you be lying to yourself. Why you continue to do so is beyond me.

    What an unusual waste of your retirement time.

  7. avatar
    traderjack April 9, 2012 at 8:42 pm #

    Big lies by government are common , so you should not be surprised it happens in the USA also.

    think about the Trentadue murder in federal prison and how the goverment lied.

    if you don’t know the facts, here is one side of it.

    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/kenneth_michael_trentadue_01.htm

    and that is disgusting.here in the USA,

  8. avatar
    Northland10 April 9, 2012 at 9:15 pm #

    traderjack: if you don’t know the facts, here is one side of it.

    Facts and infowars are not close friends.

  9. avatar
    nbc April 9, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    traderjack: Big lies by government are common , so you should not be surprised it happens in the USA also.

    Big lies by small people are also common. I am sure it happens in the USA as well.

    Your point?…

    Exactly, nothing…

  10. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2012 at 10:20 pm #

    sponson:
    As the quote from Mein Kampf says, people “will continue to think that there maybe some other explanation.”I believe what the infamous author meant is that this is what they will do when confronted with solid evidence that the one who would manipulate them is lying.I believe the question to ask in Dr. C’s very relevant analogy is, who is the big liar in the situation of the fabricated Obama birthed conspiracy theories?What is their goal?How do they compare to the author of Mein Kampf?

    And the author of Mein Kampf (we’re not mentioning his name in order to avoid moderation) was not expressly advocating the use of the Big Lie. He was accusing Jews of using it.

    Birthers use the same tactic, accusing everyone involved with Obama’s birth certificate and election of lying – Obama himself, the State of Hawaii, Selective Service, Nancy Pelosi, the Social Security Administration, every judge who has handled a birth lawsuit, etc. The list goes on and on.

  11. avatar
    justlw April 9, 2012 at 11:30 pm #

    Rickey: accusing everyone

    Arpaio just threw the entire GOP presidential pack under the bus, for “hiding” (read: not touching with a ten-foot pole) the results of his investigation.

  12. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 12:51 am #

    Big lie, Hope and Change will give you Hope that we will Change our spending habits.
    Big Lie, Obama Care was written to provide health care for the un-insured, It was written to collect more taxes.all of which were hidden in the body of the mulltitude of pages that were unread by the politicans.
    Big Lie flew in from Chicage, Brought the gangs with him, Big Lie flying right out again.

  13. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 1:00 am #

    Big Lie, numba 2, HDOH never said that the LFBC on the whitehouse.gov site was tthe one they said they sent.

    the simply referred to the fact that a LFBC was posted on the website, and inferred that it was the one they sent.

    They could not know that it was , or was not , an exact accurate copy, any more than any one of us could.

  14. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 1:07 am #

    Numba 3 big lie, Obama hid all of his life’s records from the public because he wanted to protect his privacy and and his family’s privacy, Of course , he ran for President which exposed his family’s privacy, but not his!

    Nice to expose your family, but not yourself!

  15. avatar
    richCares April 10, 2012 at 1:10 am #

    It’s the LOL troll again wasting his time.

  16. avatar
    Dave B. April 10, 2012 at 1:15 am #

    Doc, I might add that according to Table 32 of that 1962 INS report, no U.S. citizens went from the U.S. to Kenya by air that year, either. Belt and suspenders, and all that.

  17. avatar
    Dave April 10, 2012 at 1:19 am #

    Slow down Jack. I’d hate to see you hurt yourself.

  18. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 1:20 am #

    Numba 4 big lie, US Government does not kill American citizens in the USA, and yet it seems that they don’t want to discuss Trentadue’s death in prison when he was in isolation, and committed suicide by slitting his throat with a plastic salad knife, and hitting his head so hare he had 3 compression fractures in different places on his skull.

    And they had him registered with his alias so his family could not find him!

  19. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 1:27 am #

    Numba 5 big lie, When we get into power we will control the southern and northern borders, and contol the immigration of the people into the USa,

    they forgot to say that the would be to allow more immigrants into the USA instead of letting less in .

  20. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 1:30 am #

    Numba 6 big lie, the USConstitution will be accorded due respect in our adminstration.

    But what happened to the full faith part of the constitution when the Fed Government is suing the states to overturn their laws.

    Oh, that is for the good of the nation, as we don’t want to discourage our immigrants to the country.

  21. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 1:31 am #

    Numba 7 Big Lie, Our adminstration will be the most transparent and open to public operations of any government in histore.

    Yet they have to be sued to get any information from the whitehouse.

  22. avatar
    sfjeff April 10, 2012 at 1:31 am #

    I have to admit Trader….your list of ‘lies’ is a new level of wierd craziness.

    Are you numbering your own lies? Now that is ballsy.

  23. avatar
    BillTheCat April 10, 2012 at 1:32 am #

    traderjack:
    Numba 4 big lie, US Government does not kill American citizens in the USA, and yet it seems that they don’t want to discuss Trentadue’s death in prison when he was in isolation, and committed suicide by slitting his throat with a plastic salad knife, and hitting his head so hare he had 3 compression fractures in different places on his skull.

    And they had him registered with his alias so his family could not find him!

    Lol wut?

  24. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 1:34 am #

    Numba 8 big lie, We will close Gitmo and give the criminals fair treatment and trials in NYC,

  25. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 1:35 am #

    Numba 9 big Lie, The president will submit a budget which cuts the taxes , and lowers the spending, and when he did it, all of the Democrats voted against it.

  26. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 1:42 am #

    Numba 10, big lie, The president believes in diversity in employment, and almost all of his employees in the Chicago campaign committee are white.

    And 10 is a good round number to show that governments do , indeed, lie to succeed in their programs.

  27. avatar
    Steve April 10, 2012 at 1:48 am #

    traderjack:
    Numba 5 big lie,When we get into power we will control the southern and northern borders, andcontol the immigration of the people into the USa,

    they forgot to say that the would be to allow more immigrants into the USA instead of letting less in .

    And yet this administration has deported more illegal immigrants than the Bush administration.
    And don’t you dare tell me that’s not true or open to interpretation.

  28. avatar
    Steve April 10, 2012 at 1:56 am #

    I’d like to apologize to everyone if my last comment seemed out of line.

  29. avatar
    J. Potter April 10, 2012 at 2:01 am #

    Jack, you used 2 lies on the same infowarz story …. and a very narrowly focused story for a “Big Lie” at that. At least one of them was sort of on-topic. But the rest …. *sigh* it’s a threadjack, roman candle style. You wish to excuse teh birther’s big lie by saying the gov’t does it too? How has the gov’t …. the federal gov’t! … lied about Obama’s eligibility? By lying about WKA’s citizenship? Lying about McCain’s citizenship? You’re implying the entire gov’t is in on a massive cover-up?

  30. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 2:06 am #

    Big lies, big lies, big lies.

    “Stung by this family’s relentless pursuit of answers in the case and their vehement charges of cover-up, FBI agents in Oklahoma and elsewhere have been conducting a criminal investigation into Jesse Trentadue for several years.

    Contained in an internal FBI investigation report obtained by this newspaper, a FBI agent discusses legal strategies to use against one of their most vocal and effective critics.

    “By listing Jesse Trentadue as subject of another investigation (obstruction of justice), that would place him as a target on one of investigations and this would also prohibit Jesse Trentadue from testifying before the Federal Grand Jury.”

    Ah,nothing like truth in the government, is there?

  31. avatar
    Lupin April 10, 2012 at 3:54 am #

    Someone here the other day posted a long and yet still not exhaustive list of all the BIG LIES your Republican Party has been promoting, and which are to various degrees accepted by a good third of your population.

    The birthers’ lie pale before the significance of the fact that half of your voting population ranges from the easily fooled to the totally delusional. I’ve seen this happen in (excuse the politically incorrect label) third-world countries but I think it is the first time in our post WWII-era that a first-world country is, to that degree, victim of that syndrome.

    Even the Communist Party in the old URSS was not as successful in getting its own population to believe in its lies than the Republican Party has been in brainwashing a third of your population.

    Some of these BIG LIES only affect the United States (the birther lies, for example), but others, like global warming denial, have had far ranging consequences.

    The only thing that I feel in my gut is true is that this will not end well.

  32. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 4:01 am #

    Steve: And yet this administration has deported more illegal immigrants than the Bush administration.And don’t you dare tell me that’s not true or open to interpretation.

    That might , or might not, be true, depending upon the wording of the documents containing the information.

    Interpretation of provided information is what is published, kind of like the Trayvon thing. People interpret the information as it applies to their personal beliefs.

  33. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 4:06 am #

    Lupin, if , and I emphasize if, the BC turns out to be forged, upon forensic examination, then who would be the deceived?

    You claim the Republicans are to blame, and yet few repubican politicos have come out in support of the birthers, so it is a little hard to claim it is a republican scheme.

    If 50% of the population wonders about the bC it is more than republicans wondering, isn’t it?

  34. avatar
    Lupin April 10, 2012 at 4:16 am #

    traderjack:
    Lupin, if , and I emphasize if, the BC turns out to be forged, upon forensic examination, then who would be the deceived?

    You claim the Republicans are to blame, and yet few repubican politicos have come out in support of the birthers, so it is a little hard to claim it is a republican scheme.

    If 50% of the population wonders about the bC it is more than republicans wondering, isn’t it?

    Nobody wonders about it except a tiny, tiny handful of lunatic and racists such as yourselves. You’re totally delusional. It’s a miracle you can tie your shoelaces and get out in the morning.

  35. avatar
    The Magic M April 10, 2012 at 5:04 am #

    traderjack:
    Big Lie, numba 2, HDOH never said that the LFBC on the whitehouse.gov site was tthe one they said they sent.

    the simply referred to the factthat a LFBC was posted on the website, and inferred that it was the one they sent.

    They could not know that it was , or was not , anexact accurate copy, any more than any one of us could.

    Why could they not know it? They’re the ones who released the certified copy to Obama’s lawyer in the first place. If anyone knows whether the PDF accurately displays the same information as the certified copy, and the vault original, it’s the HDOH.

  36. avatar
    bovril April 10, 2012 at 6:52 am #

    And PRECISELY what do ANY of the campaign quotes you have mangled out of context have anything to do with the FACT that the President is well….President..?

    Pathetic troll is FAIL

  37. avatar
    Majority Will April 10, 2012 at 6:59 am #

    Lupin: Nobody wonders about it except a tiny, tiny handful of lunatic and racists such as yourselves. You’re totally delusional. It’s a miracle you can tie your shoelaces and get out in the morning.

    Well said.

  38. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 10, 2012 at 8:35 am #

    Lupin:
    Someone here the other day posted a long and yet still not exhaustive list of all the BIG LIES your Republican Party has been promoting…The only thing that I feel in my gut is true is that this will not end well.

    Here it is again for thise who missed it. And TraitorJack, you might want to pay attention, because these are real, documented lies, not your 10 puny speculative, argumentative, and fictional ones.

    Death Panels. Sharia Law. The practically uncountable lies about Obama. Voter fraud. The “Global Warming is a hoax” hoax. Immunizations cause autism. Discrimination against white people is the worst form of racism today. Christians are being persecuted. Obama is going to revoke the second Amendment. The poor have it too easy. Everyone who wants health insurance can get it. Bush deserves no blame for 9/11 and Obama deserves no credit for killing bin Laden. Gays want to convert your kids. Medicaid is Socialism but Corporate Welfare isn’t. It was a mistake to bail out the auto and banking industries; we should have let them fail. If female soldiers get raped, what do they expect? Rich people are smarter than everyone else. Bill Ayers was the most evil American terrorist, not Timothy McVeigh. Supporting an unnecessary war shows your support for the troops. If you use birth control you’re a slut. A loving gay couple is an abomination but pedophile Priests are a minor Chuch matter. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. The problem with education is the teachers. Democrats want to punish success and reward failure. But that doesn’t count when it’s a CEO getting a bonus after crashing the business. Greed is admirable in the Boardroom but loathesome in the Union Hall. Education makes one a liberal elitist. It is better for America to be feared than loved. Oil and gas subsidies at taxpayer expense is good business, but subsidies for alternative clean energy is pork. Minority women have children in order to qualify for welfare. Tax cuts produce prosperity; well, even if they haven’t, they should. There is no discrimination in America against non-whites anymore. Liberals are trying to destroy America. No one dies from lack of affordable health care. The Stimulus didn’t work. The environment is over-protected. Protesting against Bush in wartime was anti-American, but shouting “You lie!” at Obama during the same war was OK. We will never run out of oil. The rich are incentivized by tax cuts, while the poor are incentivized by lower wages, no benefits, an end to the minimum wage, and unemployment. Unproductive Abstinence-Only sex education is great, but effective tolerance education and anti-bullying programs are the Nanny State. Corporations use tax cuts to hire people. The “free market” satisfies every human need. Human beings are not the cause of climate change. Nothing should be done about childhood obesity. Light-bulb and gas mileage efficiency standards are government intrusion. Science is a matter of opinion. “Happy Holidays” equals a War on Christmas. Corporations will protect the public if Government would just give them free rein. The poor are all lazy criminals. America is a Christian nation. Republicans produce everything and Democrats are just sponging off of them. Only Fox News tells the truth; you can’t trust any other sources. Environmental groups have more money than the oil industry. Pharmaceutical companies charging Americans 2-10x as much as other countries for the same drug is really in our best interest.

    I count 55 there, but I glossed all the Birther, PUMA, RWNJ and General-Purpose Racist Lies about President Obama into one in this list, so that’s easily over 100.

  39. avatar
    Lupin April 10, 2012 at 8:38 am #

    Thomas Brown: [list omitted]
    I count 55 there, but I glossed all the Birther, PUMA, RWNJ and General-Purpose Racist Lies about President Obama into one in this list, so that’s easily over 100.

    In its stark enumeration, it is scary beyond belief

  40. avatar
    Lupin April 10, 2012 at 8:39 am #

    Majority Will: Well said.

    I blame velcro. Before they stayed inside. 🙂

  41. avatar
    Paper April 10, 2012 at 8:43 am #

    I was there when the Wall was being knocked down. Checkpoint Charlie was still there, and you had to use it to go into East Berlin, but there were no guards or anyone checking anything. You just walked through. Funny thing is East Berlin now is the place to be. I love East Berlin now. Back then, even with the excitement, I felt claustrophobic. Now, West Berlin doesn’t do so much for me, and East Berlin makes me feel alive. Funny that.

  42. avatar
    Lupin April 10, 2012 at 8:44 am #

    Dr Conspiracy:

    Why the “Zee” for “The” in “The Big Lie”?

    If my remember my old CAPTAIN AMERICA comics well, the comic-bookish vernacular for the German article is “Der” as in “Der tag is near, you American fool!” (Red Skull).

    “Zee” is for the French article, like Batroc “zee leepaire” as in “Salut Mon Capitaine! It is zee privilege of Batroc to defeat you again!”

    So to the extent that you’re referring to German propaganda, shouldn’t it be “Der Big Lie” instead of “Zee big lie”?

    Or, to quote Groo, did I err? 🙂

  43. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 10, 2012 at 8:53 am #

    Lupin:

    Why the “Zee” for “The” in “The Big Lie”?

    Maybe it’s from the Dutch, and means “Ocean of Lies” (see above).

  44. avatar
    Paper April 10, 2012 at 8:55 am #

    Actually, I think you’ve got something here, but think Twilight Zone. You see, both sides are telling the truth, neither side is lying!

    Because *this* Obama was born in Kenya, the other Kenya, from the parallel universe. *Our* Obama, born in Hawaii, has been switched with a parallel universe Obama. In that other universe, our Obama is now pretending to be a ruthless socialist tyrant, trying to expose the Conspiracy from within and save that universe, while also trying to find a way home.

    You see, our Obama is really a hero. And the birther Obama is really a villain. We’re both right! We’ve just mixed up our universes. If only the truth were always so easy to see!

    justlw:

    This reminds me of one of my favorite bits from the classic conspiracy film Capricorn One

  45. avatar
    Majority Will April 10, 2012 at 9:26 am #

    Lupin: I blame velcro. Before they stayed inside.

    Maybe we can use Velcro to keep them confined.

  46. avatar
    JPotter April 10, 2012 at 9:42 am #

    Majority Will: Maybe we can use Velcro to keep them confined.

    Don’t forgot about clogs, flipflops, and paper slippers. Is the shoe industry completely amoral?

    And there is that tradition of shoelessness in the South. Good Lord that explains so much!

  47. avatar
    JPotter April 10, 2012 at 9:51 am #

    Lupin: Why the “Zee” for “The” in “The Big Lie”?

    German has gendered articles, ‘der’ is the article used for the masculine singular nominative case. When I took German, I realized just how blessedly lazy English is. Later I took Attic Greek. Ouch. Strange to realize that language has been trending toward the simpler, less precise, more flexible for a couple millenia. Or is it just that spoken and written language have been merging …. ?

    “Lie” in German is a feminine noun (not making that up!), so “The Big Lie” in zee Deutsch would be:

    die große Lüge

    You already knew this and just wanted to give a shout-out to classic comics, right? They were (are!) awesome! “Gott im Himmel!”

    “Zee” is pretty darn Fraunch, iddn’t?

  48. avatar
    The Magic M April 10, 2012 at 9:57 am #

    Lupin: So to the extent that you’re referring to German propaganda, shouldn’t it be “Der Big Lie” instead of “Zee big lie”?

    I thought that “Das” was currently fashionable for that purpose, ever since “Das Boot” became popular. For example, one of my favourite computer keyboards sells under the name “Das Keyboard”.
    So “Das Big Lie” would be most appropriate.

    Ironically, in German we use “der” as the generic article to mock the language of immigrants (mostly those from Southern Europe, like Turkey). A current popular phrase is “Der Gerät wird nie müde” (“the device never gets tired”), popularized by an interview with a Turkish producer of a device that roasts Döners. (Proper German would be “Das Gerät…”.)

  49. avatar
    The Magic M April 10, 2012 at 9:59 am #

    … and if Doc wanted to mock the German accent, “Ze” would’ve been correct, I guess. As in “Vot have you done vis ze vater?”

  50. avatar
    JPotter April 10, 2012 at 10:04 am #

    Whoops, forgot to throw in that ‘der’ is a definite article. I made a note about the inadequacies of Okieland edumacation. Grammar never went beyond the 7 Parts of Speech (stuff, stuff to do, how to do stuff; cars, meats, womens, Sooners, beer, guns*) and singular vs. plural.

    ________

    * Yeah, I know. That’s 9, not 7. Talk about Big Lies.

  51. avatar
    Thrifty April 10, 2012 at 10:19 am #

    Hey Traderjack, regarding your list of alleged lies, I’m gonna let you in on one truth.

    Any schmuck can start a web site and write words on it. That does not make them true.

  52. avatar
    Paper April 10, 2012 at 10:26 am #

    The trouble with birthers telling their lies, or believing someone else’s lies, is that it keeps them from dealing with actual lies and corruption. When everything is a conspiracy, you miss the actual conspiracies, actual corruption.

  53. avatar
    Thrifty April 10, 2012 at 10:33 am #

    Real conspiracies and real corruption are boring.

    Paper:
    The trouble with birthers telling their lies, or believing someone else’s lies, is that it keeps them from dealing with actual lies and corruption.When everything is a conspiracy, you miss the actual conspiracies, actual corruption.

  54. avatar
    Paper April 10, 2012 at 10:46 am #

    That’s why I use them as bedtime stories for the kids. Puts them right to sleep.

    And now children, we’ll read from Matt Taibbi’s collection of stories about mortgage fraud by the banks…

    Thrifty:
    Real conspiracies and real corruption are boring.

  55. avatar
    Lupin April 10, 2012 at 11:59 am #

    I rest my case: 🙂

    http://www.the-isb.com/images/FNFBatroc01.jpg

  56. avatar
    Thrifty April 10, 2012 at 12:50 pm #

    I love it when Doc writes an opinion piece, and a Birther immediately jumps in to inadvertently illustrate that opinion.

  57. avatar
    Thrifty April 10, 2012 at 12:55 pm #

    Though to be honest, I thought The Informant–about the lycin price fixing conspiracy–was a pretty good movie. The story on This American Life from several years previous was pretty engaging too.

    I suppose the credit for that goes to the storytellers though. The conspiracy itself is pretty mundane. Big shots at Archer Daniels Midland and a couple other food additive producers conspired to fix the price of a food additive. The motive was simple; profit, and the conspiracy more or less worked because there were only about a dozen people involved, each and every one of them with a vested interest in keeping the conspiracy going (making money and staying out of prison).

    Sexy conspiracy theories like Birtherism and Trutherism require dozens to hundreds of people, many with either no reason to continue the conspiracy or a clear reason to destroy it (i.e. Republican Hawaii governor Linda Lingle).

    Paper: That’s why I use them as bedtime stories for the kids. Puts them right to sleep.And now children, we’ll read from Matt Taibbi’s collection of stories about mortgage fraud by the banks…

  58. avatar
    1% Silver Nitrate April 10, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

    justlw: Arpaio just threw the entire GOP presidential pack under the bus, for “hiding” (read: not touching with a ten-foot pole) the results of his investigation

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s Ex-Right Hand Man Disbarred Over Ethics Violations (TPMMuckraker, April 10, 2012, 12:58 PM)
    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/04/andrew_thomas_ethics_arpaio.php

  59. avatar
    Predicto April 10, 2012 at 1:36 pm #

    Minor aside – the Full Faith and Credit clause does not have any bearing on the federal government telling states what to do. That is controlled by the Supremacy clause.

    Traderjack, you might want to tell that to the website where you cut and pasted all of your talking points from.

  60. avatar
    y_p_w April 10, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

    traderjack: But what happened to the full faith part of the constitution when the Fed Government is suing the states to overturn their laws.

    Full Faith and Credit applies to the states regarding the proceedings from other states. It’s kind of a forced reciprocol agreement.

  61. avatar
    JPotter April 10, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

    1% Silver Nitrate: Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s Ex-Right Hand Man Disbarred Over Ethics Violations

    Instead of that story at WND, you can find:
    WND EXCLUSIVE
    Eligibility vanishes from conservative website
    What was real reason for disappearance?

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/04/eligibility-vanishes-from-conservative-website/?cat_orig=us

    A hilarious piece that alleges the frightwing-o-sphere has been muzzled or is in the tank, along with the obligatory, “Shurriff Joe is on the case!”

    Fiddling while Joe burns.

  62. avatar
    nbc April 10, 2012 at 3:18 pm #

    traderjack: You claim the Republicans are to blame, and yet few repubican politicos have come out in support of the birthers, so it is a little hard to claim it is a republican scheme.

    If 50% of the population wonders about the bC it is more than republicans wondering, isn’t it?

    Yes, while historically low effort thinking and being a conservative correlate, the fact that people are confused about the facts, is understandable. For instance, your reliance on less than accurate data happens because some are quick to accept data that support our biases and beliefs. When politicians continue to fuel the birther movement through inaction and ambiguity, people will take notice and comfort.

    Enabling the birthers foolishness is worse than the fact that some people, without understanding much of the issues or the surrounding facts, have jumped on board of this band wagon.

    In the end however, the lack of much of any evidence, fact, logic or reason will eventually doom this foolish event in our history. We will look back with a smile at those who jumped to conclusions not supported by the data. It would not be a first in history or a last.

  63. avatar
    marshman April 10, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    Obots may be correct but i do not think so. Obama refuses to answer all questions. He is afraid he will open a big can of worms. A article posted (april 8) at godfather politics “Is America about to repeat the awful history of Germany in the 1930’s” descibes Obama perfect.

  64. avatar
    Rickey April 10, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

    traderjack:

    They could not know that it was , or was not , an exact accurate copy, any more than any one of us could.

    Because it would be oh so difficult for Alvin Onaka to look at the image of the LFBC which the White House posted and compare it to the original in the DOH vault which he copied.

    You birthers are pathetic.

  65. avatar
    justlw April 10, 2012 at 4:20 pm #

    Rickey: Because it would be oh so difficult for Alvin Onaka to look at the image of the LFBC

    Just because the PDF has all the data of the vault copy, and in fact is indistinguishable in appearance from the vault copy, does not mean it is an accurate copy.

    You have to look at the layers to determine that.

    (Now, how you look at layers on a piece of paper, I’m not sure. Maybe the vault copy is made of Colorforms™ or something. But that’s Onaka’s job to work through.)

  66. avatar
    Greenfinches April 10, 2012 at 4:31 pm #

    traderjack: People interpret the information as it applies to their personal beliefs.

    You are so right.

    Glad to see you are at least aware of the mote there may be in your own eye…….

  67. avatar
    sfjeff April 10, 2012 at 4:45 pm #

    While I don’t want to waste time with all of Traders big lies

    This one:

    Big Lie, numba 2, HDOH never said that the LFBC on the whitehouse.gov site was tthe one they said they sent.

    the simply referred to the fact that a LFBC was posted on the website, and inferred that it was the one they sent.

    They could not know that it was , or was not , an exact accurate copy, any more than any one of us could.

    Regardless of the accuracy of your statement, the intent of your Big Lie is clear- which is to lie about where the President was born.

    Because you already know that Hawaii confirmed that, as his birth certificate says, that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf

    HONOLULU – The Hawai„i State Health Department recently complied with a request by President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “long form” birth certificate.
    “We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawai„i,” Hawai„i Health Director Loretta Fuddy said. “I have seen the original records filed at the Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in Hawai„i.”

  68. avatar
    traderjack April 10, 2012 at 5:26 pm #

    Oh, my evilness musst be apparent to the obots!

    There is no one alive who can certify that the information on the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE is accurate.

    Information on the birth certificates are not certifed to be accurate, as there is not proviso that the informtion submitted by the parent is accurate. that information is un-verifiyied by anyone.

    In fact, it appears to be common knowledge that there is no written record on the marriage of Obama and SAD available in the Hawaiian data base.

    There are comments that they were married in Maui, which is kind of strange, as they lived on Oahu, and , even so, their marriage license would be listed in Hawaii records.

    It might have been a Muslim marriage where they simply state that they are married.with a muslim witness being present.

  69. avatar
    y_p_w April 10, 2012 at 5:31 pm #

    traderjack: Oh, my evilness musst be apparent to the obots!There is no one alive who can certify that the information on the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE is accurate.Information on the birth certificates are not certifed to be accurate, as there is not proviso that the informtion submitted by the parent is accurate. that information is un-verifiyied by anyone.In fact, it appears to be common knowledge that there is no written record on the marriage of Obama and SAD available in the Hawaiian data base.There are comments that they were married in Maui, which is kind of strange, as they lived on Oahu, and , even so, their marriage license would be listed in Hawaii records.It might have been a Muslim marriage where they simply state that they are married.with a muslim witness being present.

    What does this have to do with anything regarding Presidential eligibility?

    I thought the questions were about Obama’s eligibility. If he’s born in Hawaii, that’s the end of it.

    Perhaps **you** have a question of whether or not Obama was legally considered legitimately born. There’s plenty of evidence that his father may have been married before. There’s evidence that his father may have lied about his own age on many documents, including his son’s birth certificate. However, none of that really matters.

  70. avatar
    ellen April 10, 2012 at 5:38 pm #

    Re: “as there is not proviso that the informtion submitted by the parent is accurate. that information is un-verifiyied by anyone.”

    Obama’s long form birth certificate shows that he was born in Kapiolani Hospital, and that fact is certified by the signature of the doctor who delivered him.

  71. avatar
    Sef April 10, 2012 at 5:47 pm #

    traderjack: Information on the birth certificates are not certifed to be accurate, as there is not proviso that the informtion submitted by the parent is accurate. that information is un-verifiyied by anyone.

    The ONLY information of relevance is that related to the child, i.e. name, sex, date amd place of birth. All of this is attested to by the doctor. Any info re the parents is unimportant, at least as regards the child’s natural born citizenship.

  72. avatar
    Scientist April 10, 2012 at 5:48 pm #

    traderjack: There is no one alive who can certify that the information on the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE is accurate.

    I can certify it is accurate as I was present at the birth and last I checked, I am alive. The President was there as well, so he can certify it also. That makes 2 jack, so you LOSE, my friend….

  73. avatar
    JPotter April 10, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    traderjack: There is no one alive who can certify that the information on the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE is accurate.

    Again with the nihilism. King of the non-starters, eh? To participate meaningfully, you’ve got to get past the basic epistemologocal assumptions, Jackie-me-boy. If you insist on squatting on square 1—”We can’t ever know anything”—then don’t bother waking up.

  74. avatar
    Rickey April 10, 2012 at 6:04 pm #

    traderjack:

    In fact, it appears to be common knowledge that there is no written record on the marriage of Obama and SAD available in the Hawaiian data base.

    There are comments that they were married inMaui, which is kind of strange, as they lived on Oahu, and , even so, their marriage license wouldbe listed in Hawaii records.

    It might have been a Muslim marriage where they simply state that they are married.with a muslim witness being present.

    If that were the case, it wouldn’t have been necessary for Stanley Ann to divorce him, would it? Yet we know that they were divorced, because we have seen the divorce records.

    Another of your crackpot theories bites the dust.

  75. avatar
    Thrifty April 10, 2012 at 7:23 pm #

    So then what are you fighting for? What is all this hulabaloo about getting in to see the original vault copy for examination by forensic document experts?

    In the same vein, there is no one alive who can certify that the reality we perceive is not just a supercomputer powering intelligent machines a la The Matrix. But being sane human beings, we just assume the most likely explanation.

    traderjack: There is no one alive who can certify that the information on the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE is accurate.

  76. avatar
    misha April 10, 2012 at 7:40 pm #

    Paper: West Berlin doesn’t do so much for me, and East Berlin makes me feel alive. Funny that.

    “Why are Israelis moving to Germany? Thousands of Israelis, among them many artists, have chosen to live in Berlin because of its relaxed atmosphere and relatively low cost of living, even if it means living in a country with a fraught history.”

    Read on:
    http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/why-are-israelis-moving-to-germany-1.384831

    An elderly man in a shul says to the person standing next to him, “VD! At 81!” The other man replies, “So? AT&T at 18.”

    Thank you. I’ll be here all week.

  77. avatar
    sfjeff April 10, 2012 at 8:08 pm #

    traderjack: Oh, my evilness musst be apparent to the obots!
    There is no one alive who can certify that the information on the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE is accurate.
    Information on the birth certificates are not certifed to be accurate, as there is not proviso that the informtion submitted by the parent is accurate. that information is un-verifiyied by anyone.
    In fact, it appears to be common knowledge that there is no written record on the marriage of Obama and SAD available in the Hawaiian data base.
    There are comments that they were married in Maui, which is kind of strange, as they lived on Oahu, and , even so, their marriage license would be listed in Hawaii records.
    It might have been a Muslim marriage where they simply state that they are married.with a muslim witness being present.

    And the list of crazy continues…..

  78. avatar
    gorefan April 10, 2012 at 9:55 pm #

    traderjack: In fact, it appears to be common knowledge that there is no written record on the marriage of Obama and SAD available in the Hawaiian data base.

    Hawaii lists the marriage in their index data.

    MARRIAGE INDEX — OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
    GROOM — OBAMA, BARACK HUSSEIN
    BRIDE — DUNHAN, STANLEY ANN

    Leo Donofrio wrote about it sometime ago. Although he has taken the page down. You can read it here.

    http://theobamafile.com/_family/ObamaDunhamMarriage.htm

    There is also the memo in the State Department file:

    “Mrs. McCabe, University of Hawaii, Foreign Student advisor, called on 4/10/61 and reported that BARACK H. OBAMA, a student at the University since 1959 was married on February 2, 1961 to Stanley Ann Dunham, a United States citizen from Seattle, Washington in Maui, Hawaii. The problem is that when he arrived in the U.S. the subject had a wife in Kenya.”

  79. avatar
    Paper April 10, 2012 at 9:56 pm #

    Cool.

    misha: “Why are Israelis moving to Germany? Thousands of Israelis, among them many artists, have chosen to live in Berlin because of its relaxed atmosphere and relatively low cost of living, even if it means living in a country with a fraught history.”

  80. avatar
    SluggoJD April 10, 2012 at 11:34 pm #

    traderjack:
    Oh, my evilnessmusst be apparent to the obots!

    There is no one alive who can certify that the information on the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATEis accurate.

    Information on the birth certificates are not certifed to be accurate, as there is not proviso that the informtion submitted by the parent is accurate. that information is un-verifiyied by anyone.

    In fact, it appears to be common knowledge that there is no written record on the marriage of Obama and SAD available in the Hawaiian data base.

    There are comments that they were married inMaui, which is kind of strange, as they lived on Oahu, and , even so, their marriage license wouldbe listed in Hawaii records.

    It might have been a Muslim marriage where they simply state that they are married.with a muslim witness being present.

    My best friend is Muslim, so you’re on very dangerous ground, even before I open my mouth about all the other crap you post.

    I hope you choke.

  81. avatar
    Lupin April 11, 2012 at 2:45 am #

    traderjack: It might have been a Muslim marriage where they simply state that they are married.with a muslim witness being present.

    And again, crazy birthers prove they’re foaming-at-the-mouth bigots and xenophobes.

    Frankly, I don’t know how people like you look at themselves in the mirror.

  82. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 2:52 am #

    SluggoJD: My best friend is Muslim, so you’re on very dangerous ground, even before I open my mouth about all the other crap you post. I hope you choke.

    I’m Jewish, and I second you. First it was Jews, now it’s Muslims. When that dies down, they’ll find another bogeyman.

    Gotta go – I found a communist under my bed.

  83. avatar
    US Citizen April 11, 2012 at 3:06 am #

    misha: Gotta go – I found a communist under my bed.

    Silly.. stop using red sheets.

  84. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 3:22 am #

    Scientist: I can certify it is accurate as I was present at the birth and last I checked, I am alive.The President was there as well, so he can certify it also. That makes 2 jack, so you LOSE, my friend….

    This is about circumcision:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/10/jewish-humor.html

  85. avatar
    ellen April 11, 2012 at 3:28 am #

    If anyone can insert an answer to the “ukelele” question on this site, I would appreciate it:

    http://rebelontheright.blogspot.com/2012/04/obamas-magic-scan.html?showComment=1334096031043#c4457381903097118955

  86. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 4:05 am #

    ellen: If anyone can insert an answer to the “ukelele” question on this site, I would appreciate it:

    I just did.

  87. avatar
    The Magic M April 11, 2012 at 4:09 am #

    traderjack: There is no one alive who can certify that the information on the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE is accurate.

    Information on the birth certificates are not certifed to be accurate, as there is not proviso that the informtion submitted by the parent is accurate. that information is un-verifiyied by anyone.

    As I predicted, the final goalpost of the birthers: “Even if the vault BC exists and isn’t forged, how can we be sure the information recorded on it isn’t false?”

    So according to birthers, we can never know a Presidential candidate was born in the US since birth certificates (and, by extension, hospital records, witness accounts and any other type of proof) can not be trusted.

    Good that finally the cat is out of the bag. Believe nothing when it’s about the black guy, but accept without question the unproven life story of any white Republican. What a bunch of racist sh*theads you are!

  88. avatar
    The Magic M April 11, 2012 at 4:12 am #

    Or, in a related thought, it’s the “the US can never have an eligible President” argument that plays into the hands of your enemies.
    Would fall in line with the argument “while Obama is President, all actions by the military are illegal” which is meant to make your country open to attack.

    So birthers are either racists *or* traitors (many are both).

  89. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 4:17 am #

    traderjack: There is no one alive who can certify that the information on the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE is accurate.

    The Magic M: Believe nothing when it’s about the black guy, but accept without question the unproven life story of any white Republican.

    Willard Romney’s father was born in Mexico, purportedly to US citizens. No one has asked to see Romney’s BC. Also, there was an interview with Seamus, at Romney’s house in Canada. The tape has mysteriously disappeared.

  90. avatar
    Judge Mental April 11, 2012 at 7:11 am #

    ellen: If anyone can insert an answer to the “ukelele” question on this site, I would appreciate it:http://rebelontheright.blogspot.com/2012/04/obamas-magic-scan.html?showComment=1334096031043#c4457381903097118955

    Not sure what it is you want by way of an answer but it has definitely been established several months ago that the ‘ukelele’ signature is that of local registrar Verna K L Lee. This is substantiated, amongst other things by the facts that…

    1. Her signature appears on other contemporary birth certificates.

    2. Her name appears on the 1961/1962 Polk Directory as an employee of the Hawaii Health Dept.

    3. She can be easily looked up on ancestry.com

    This revelation accomplished little more than put to rest the nonsensical notion that the mischievous bc ‘forger’ was playing a joke on everyone by using a name that looked like ‘ukelele’ and further confirmed that the registrar’s signature was that of someone genuinely working on that position at that time.

    Of course in true birther goalpost transportation tradition those who had previously inisted the name was a forger’s joke simply shrugged their shoulders and without so much as losing a breath simply switched to immediately supporting the theory that it was the genuine signature of Mrs Verna K L Lee lifted from someone else’s birth certificate and transplanted into the forged compilation.

  91. avatar
    The Magic M April 11, 2012 at 7:19 am #

    Judge Mental: This revelation accomplished little more than put to rest the nonsensical notion that the mischievous bc forger’ was playing a joke on everyone by using a name that looked like ukelele’

    Though it was funny how birthers could make the “Ukulele” claim while at the same time touting the Nordyke BC’s as real – they have the same registrar signature.

    Still I wonder when the episode “Whatever happened to the Smiley Face?” will return to WND. 🙂

  92. avatar
    ellen April 11, 2012 at 7:34 am #

    Many thanks Judge Mental and The Magic M.

  93. avatar
    Scientist April 11, 2012 at 7:38 am #

    misha: Willard Romney’s father was born in Mexico, purportedly to US citizens. No one has asked to see Romney’s BC. Also, there was an interview with Seamus, at Romney’s house in Canada. The tape has mysteriously disappeared.

    I think we ought to have a contest for the birthers for “The Best Excuse Why Mitt Romney Doesn’t Even Have to Show a Birth Certificate While Obama Has to Show All Original Records and Even Then That Doesn’t Answer Our Questions”. To help our birther friends, I will contribute a few suggestions:

    1. Obama’s father was born in a foreign country while Mitt’s was born in the US (OK, let’s try another).
    2. Obama’s mother could have easily flown halfway around the world to give birth while Mitt’s mother lacked easy access to a foreign country And there would be no passport or entry records from Kenya, while people driving across the bridge from Canada in the 1940s were rigorously tracked (OK, that doesn’t work either).
    3. Obama’s family owned property in another country while Mitt’s family didn’t (OK, that isn’t true either).
    4. Obama’s birth certificate has been called a forgery, while Mitt’s has been proven valid (OK, that isn’t it either, since no one has seen Mitt’s).
    5. No Hawaiian state officials have vouched for Obama’s, while Michigan/Ontario officials have vouched for Mitt’s (OK, that isn’t actually true either).
    6. Obama’s father belonged to a religion different from other Presidents, while Mitt and his father did/do not (OK, struck out on that one).
    7. Obama is a Democrat while Mitt is a Republican (getting closer I think).
    8. Obama is part black while Mitt probably isn’t (Hmm, getting very close I think, Now if only we really knew what race Mitt’s parents put on the b.c.)

  94. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 11, 2012 at 8:26 am #

    The Magic M:

    So birthers are either racists *or* traitors (many are both).

    My vote is “all are both.”

  95. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 11, 2012 at 8:32 am #

    A key element of Nazi policy as well as current European new-Nazi and far-right politics is the demonization of immigrants. This is true of the right-wing anti-immigrant rabble rousing these days, something that is characteristic with a significant part of the birthers.

    The anti-Obama folks, like marshman will say pretty much anything to trash talk Obama, no matter how totally unconnected from the facts it is. However, when we turn this around on the birthers, the real connections are there.

    marshman: “Is America about to repeat the awful history of Germany in the 1930′s” descibes Obama perfect.

  96. avatar
    Lupin April 11, 2012 at 8:37 am #

    marshman: A article posted (april 8) at godfather politics “Is America about to repeat the awful history of Germany in the 1930′s” descibes Obama perfect.

    I assume you mean that Obama is the Weimar republic and you guys are the brownshirts?

  97. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 11, 2012 at 8:37 am #

    It would pretty hard for Obama to present evidence in a trial or discovery when there has been not trial or discovery. Your objection is factually silly.

    Chef: On the other hand, you’ve got Obama, a Harvard-trained lawyer, presenting evidence how and when he feels like it, in a manner never acceptable in trial or discovery,

  98. avatar
    JD Reed April 11, 2012 at 8:50 am #

    Excellent riposte, Lupin!

  99. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 11, 2012 at 9:17 am #

    marshman:
    A article posted… at godfather politics “Is America about to repeat the awful history of Germany in the 1930′s” descibes Obama perfect.

    Not to mention the unmitigated horror of improper articles and confusing adjectives with adverbs.

  100. avatar
    Tarrant April 11, 2012 at 9:36 am #

    misha:
    Willard Romney’s father was born in Mexico, purportedly to US citizens. No one has asked to see Romney’s BC. Also, there was an interview with Seamus, at Romney’s house in Canada. The tape has mysteriously disappeared.

    About three weeks ago some of the birthers on Freep started talking about Santorum and Romney. It seems one of them called up one of the campaigns an asked for a birth certificate and was, unsurprisingly, rebuffed, and started posting on Freep about why the Republican candidates wouldn’t show theirs. After all, no one has seen Romney’s college records either, etc.

    This resulted in a swift response from Jim Robinson, who quickly came to the tread an announced that no anti-Republican birther talk would be permitted on penalty of zotting (banning) and that he is completely satisfied with the qualifications of the Republican candidates (although he hates Romney). When butterdezillion protested saying that by not releasing their records Republicans give cover to Obama not releasing his, JRob came back and gave a “final warning” that even a single additional word about Republcans and birth, school, or other records would lead to a permanent ban.

    Touchy subject for him I guess when the subject isn’t Obama.

  101. avatar
    JD Reed April 11, 2012 at 9:54 am #

    TraderJack, what do you trade in? Novel, off-the-wall theories that can’t stand up to the simplest analysis?
    Your supposed point about nobody being able to certify the accuracy of birth records? That would equally apply to nearly all past presidents, as well. A few had living parents when they became president, so I guess they would meet your standards. (Although might not a parent parent lie if it made the difference in whether their child became president or not?) So are you admitting that you’re wanting to hold this president to a more exacting standard? If so, why?
    But your point is flawed in its premises. The birth information that winds up in official records is taken from a birth parent, in nearly every case. But more than that, the hospital staff knows that the baby was born before their very eyes, at a specific time on a specific date. The fact of that child’s birth is proved by the fact that the hospital submits the birth info to the relevant government authority. Rejecting Vattelism, as any competent court will do, that’s all that matters.
    So unless you conjure up some bizarre switch-in-identity scenario that the man sitting in the White House isn’t the same mixed-race male that was most certainly born under the name Barack Obama II at the Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu, we have all the evidence we need that the sitting president meets the natural born citizenship requirement of the constitution.
    (Fourteenth amendment: born in country = natural-born citizen, with two exceptions that clearly do not apply to Mr. Obama.)

  102. avatar
    misha April 11, 2012 at 10:03 am #

    Thomas Brown: Not to mention the unmitigated horror of improper articles and confusing adjectives with adverbs.

    A birther is semi-literate. Why am I not surprised?

  103. avatar
    The Magic M April 11, 2012 at 10:13 am #

    JD Reed: So unless you conjure up some bizarre switch-in-identity scenario that the man sitting in the White House isn’t the same mixed-race male that was most certainly born under the name Barack Obama II at the Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu

    That is the alternative final goalpost next to “we don’t know if the official documents are telling the truth”.
    Although that would require almost the entire birfer history (Stanley Ann flying to Kenya highly pregnant, Indonesian adoption, …) to be rewritten from scratch since that new theory would only require an unknown person to step in at some time and take over the real-Obama identity.

    I think we should wish every birther to land in some Valkenvania nightmare where a cop simply tells them “I don’t believe you’re the guy your ID was issued to, you probably just look like him” and locks them up for a couple months while he is “investigating” the “true identity” of the birther “identity thief”.

  104. avatar
    Lupin April 11, 2012 at 10:22 am #

    Tarrant: This resulted in a swift response from Jim Robinson, who quickly came to the tread and announced that no anti-Republican birther talk would be permitted on penalty of zotting (banning) and that he is completely satisfied with the qualifications of the Republican candidates (although he hates Romney).

    Jim Robinson is more than a partisan hack like, say, Eric-Son-of-Eric. He is a bona fide nutcase. I’m surprised he hasn’t exploded already, frankly.

  105. avatar
    y_p_w April 11, 2012 at 10:39 am #

    Judge Mental: This revelation accomplished little more than put to rest the nonsensical notion that the mischievous bc forger’ was playing a joke on everyone by using a name that looked like ukelele’ and further confirmed that the registrar’s signature was that of someone genuinely working on that position at that time.

    I think we’ve established that the “local registrar” is typically just the person at the local HDOH office who receives the birth certificate.

    However, there is the “ALAN” birth certificate that many birthers used to point to until Obama released an image of his BC. The “Local Registrar” has a title that’s typed in after the signature, and it says “LT COL, MSC, USA”. I looked up what MSC means, and the most likely match is Medical Service Corps, which would include US Army hospital administrators. So my guess is that there are a wide range of people inside and outside the HDOH who would be authorized to serve as the “local registrar”. The “Date Accepted by Local Reg.” is also typed in with what looks to be the same typewriter as the majority of the birth certificate, but the “Date Accepted by the Reg. General” is made via a stamp.

    http://snarkybytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Service_Corps_(U.S._Army)#Medical_Service_Corps_.28MS.29

  106. avatar
    catbit April 11, 2012 at 11:41 am #

    THOMAS BROWN: I would like to disagree with you on one ‘truth’ quoted above insinuating that Timothy McVeigh was the most evil American Terrorist. While many children died as a result of his attack, there is no reason to believe he specifically targeted the day care in the facility, only the facility itself and the employees who worked there.

    On the other hand, one of the most horrific terrorist attacks on American soil (and the most notorious until Oklahoma City) was the well-planned and deliberate targeting of the Bath, Michigan Consolidated School on May 18, 1927. For months, anti-tax crusader Andrew Kehoe secretly planted explosives throughout the walls and basement of the new school in protest of taxes raised to pay for it. 44 innocent people died, including 38 schoolchildren (Part of his contraption failed, sparing many more lives).

    Here is a person who experienced personal failures, partly due to the costs of his wife’s illness, and partly due to bad business decisions – and blamed them all on the government and school system. He allowed his hatred to fester until it reached the boiling point. He didn’t wear a turban, didn’t have ‘off-white’ skin, didn’t have a funny sounding name, and was well-respected in the community. But anyone who allows hatred and loathing to eat at their soul day in and day out can quickly become unhinged, at which point all predictable behavior is off.

    We have seen similar characteristics in our history – from European fascism, to the KKK, and even more extreme elements of American militias and yes – even Birthers.

    We have even seen elements of unhinged birthers going too far (Fitzpatrick and allies). Yet, one might consider that the ability of the birthers to ‘gripe’ to each other over the intertubes allows them to let off their pent-up frustrations (as unjustified as they may be) and prevent some from crossing the line. But there will always be the extreme minority – the one or two who absorb all the nonsense and take it to heart – letting it fester inside until the tether breaks, and the unpredictable can easily take place.

    I am far more concerned about right-wing extremism and the rise of fascism in this nation than I am about foreign terrorists. My daughter’s school is pretty well protected from the latter….

    my apologies for my ranting….

  107. avatar
    Thrifty April 11, 2012 at 12:15 pm #

    And Godwin’s Law is proven once again.

    marshman:
    Obots may be correct but i do not think so. Obama refuses to answer all questions. He is afraid he will open a big can of worms. A article posted (april at godfather politics “Is America about to repeat the awful history of Germany in the 1930′s” descibes Obama perfect.

  108. avatar
    Obsolete April 11, 2012 at 12:28 pm #

    catbit: On the other hand, one of the most horrific terrorist attacks on American soil (and the most notorious until Oklahoma City) was the well-planned and deliberate targeting of the Bath, Michigan Consolidated School on May 18, 1927.

    I had never heard about this, catbit. Thanks for the info.

  109. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 11, 2012 at 1:14 pm #

    catbit:
    THOMAS BROWN:I would like to disagree with you on one truth’ quoted above insinuating that Timothy McVeigh was the most evil American Terrorist.

    my apologies for my ranting….

    No, no. Your kind of ranting, where there is actual feeling and substance, is to be commended. I had heard the name Kehoe, but wasn’t aware of the details.

    My point was only that the Fox News/Wingnut coalition refers routinely to Bill Ayers as if he were right up there with Kehoe and McVeigh, for the sole purpose of smearing Obama because of some tenuous connection the President has with him. Even though in Ayer’s days as a radical BHO would have been a small child, and in any case Ayers’ protest bombings were aimed at damaging buildings and never injured anyone.

    It’s part of their Big Lie. That’s all.

  110. avatar
    justlw April 11, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

    misha: I’m Jewish, and I second you. First it was Jews, now it’s Muslims. When that dies down, they’ll find another bogeyman.

    Gotta go – I found a communist under my bed.

    Has Allen West been by yet to do a headcount?

  111. avatar
    justlw April 11, 2012 at 2:26 pm #

    The Magic M: Though it was funny how birthers could make the “Ukulele” claim while at the same time touting the Nordyke BC’s as real – they have the same registrar signature.

    I believe she’s on the Coats BC and one of the “unknown name” ones, but not on the Nordykes’ .

    (Their register is Ima Sue Doenham.)

  112. avatar
    traderjack April 11, 2012 at 5:01 pm #

    As a redneck republican I abhor the fact that any conservative would ban anyone from posting anything about any candidate , republican, or democrat, or any other group-.

    Free speech applies to all in the country.

    As to the muslim marriage , and how some reacted;

    Al-Nikah: the Islamic Marriage Ceremony
    The nikah is a simple ceremony in which a man and woman declare their commitment to one another as husband and wife. It is a holy contract to which both must agree and it is considered an act of worship (ibadah).

    In the very simplest form of the ceremony, there is the Al-Ijab wal-Qubul (offer and acceptance) only, when the Wali (woman’s guardian in marriage) offers the bride to the groom, who then accepts. The Wali may say: “I give you my daughter/the girl in my guardianship in marriage in accordance to the Islamic Shari’ah in the presence of the witnesses here with the dowry agreed upon. And Allah is our best witness.”

    The husband-to-be replies with: “I accept marrying your daughter/guard giving her name to myself in accordance to the Islamic Shari’ah in the presence of the witnesses here with the dowry agreed upon. And Allah is our best witness.” The ceremony is then complete.

    And that , to me, is just as acceptable as any marriage in the world.

    You may disagree if you so desire.

    If you think there is something wrong with that so be it!

    As to being a racist, sure I am a racist, but I do not practice racism.

    The one thing I am not is a bigot, because I will listen to any point of view, and accept , or reject, as I desire.

    some posters are the same, some are different!

  113. avatar
    y_p_w April 11, 2012 at 5:14 pm #

    traderjack: And that , to me, is just as acceptable as any marriage in the world.

    While that may be the case that it’s recognized by their religious practices, it’s not necessarily the case that it would be a legal marriage as recognized by the government.

    For instance, Egypt has specific marriage courts, and only the civil registration in one of those courts make the marriage legal in the eyes of the government.

  114. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 11, 2012 at 5:45 pm #

    Free speech does not give someone the right to speak in someone else’s publication.

    traderjack: As a redneck republican I abhor the fact that any conservative would ban anyone from posting anything about any candidate , republican, or democrat, or any other group-.

    Free speech applies to all in the country.

  115. avatar
    Sef April 11, 2012 at 7:36 pm #

    traderjack: As a redneck republican I abhor the fact that any conservative would ban anyone from posting anything about any candidate , republican, or democrat, or any other group-.

    Free speech applies to all in the country.

    I was not aware that Doc was part of the government. We’d better all be careful what we say.

  116. avatar
    traderjack April 11, 2012 at 9:00 pm #

    Dr. C, you are right, but if censorship is practiced in and on the webs than free discussions of the world’s problems are limited.

    and then eventually the government may, (note that is may and not would), step in to encourage, or discourage, any discussions on the sites that would involve discussions ot the government’

    You , of course, can do as you please at this time. And , perhap, in the future your rights will remain as they are!

  117. avatar
    nbc April 11, 2012 at 9:16 pm #

    You , of course, can do as you please at this time. And , perhap, in the future your rights will remain as they are!

    Or perhaps not but such are hypotheticals, as so many of your ‘arguments’ have been. I find this not a very convincing way to present an argument or argue a position.

  118. avatar
    nbc April 11, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    traderjack: Dr. C, you are right, but if censorship is practiced in and on the webs than free discussions of the world’s problems are limited.

    Or discussions are kept on track. Anarchy is that what you are arguing?

  119. avatar
    traderjack April 12, 2012 at 3:18 am #

    No, a redneck republican like I am wants only peace on earth, goodwill among men, money distributed to all, free health care , and the right to keep and bear arms to keep the government at bayl

    if the site only had supporters of Obama what on earth would you be talking about. It seems your greatest conversation and interest is to complain about the birthers and tell the readers how crazy they are.

    Outside of making comments about Orly Taitz which are a little crude, but expected on boards.

  120. avatar
    The Magic M April 12, 2012 at 4:40 am #

    justlw: I believe she’s on the Coats BC and one of the “unknown name” ones, but not on the Nordykes’ .

    (Their register is Ima Sue Doenham.)

    You are correct, my bad.

    traderjack: a redneck republican like I am wants only peace on earth, goodwill among men, money distributed to all, free health care

    On most birther and right-wing sites, this will get you marked “communist”, y’know?

  121. avatar
    traderjack April 13, 2012 at 4:25 am #

    The Magic M: You are correct, my bad.On most birther and right-wing sites, this will get you marked “communist”, y’know?

    Need I write the word sarcasm in that post?

  122. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 13, 2012 at 6:52 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: “Free speech does not give someone the right to speak in someone else’s publication.”

    Yes, I agree. 1st Amendment rights are not guaranteed by the owner of a forum. Butt, I believe the owner also knows that by not allowing free speech rebuttals & responces, he is setting himself up to be seen as allowing the Big Lie as well as pure ignorance to thrive.

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    marshman: “A article posted (april at godfather politics “Is America about to repeat the awful history of Germany in the 1930’s” descibes Obama perfect.”

    Lupin: “I assume you mean that Obama is the Weimar republic and you guys are the brownshirts?”

    Actually Lupin has it bass ackwards. I followed the 2008 campaign season from its start and the overall political arena in general up to this present time. I can say with complete honesty & void of any doubts, that the 0b0ts {0bama supporters] have been an ongoing reproduction of the trail blazed by Hitler starting in 1919 when he joined the small group that was the forerunner of the National Socialists {NAZIs] as their propagandist. Herr Wolf continued the Big Lie propaganda in his Mein Kampf and on into the ’30s when he started the Ministry of Propaganda and put his close comrade, Herr Goebbels, in charge.

    It’s an errie feeling for those of us who have studied the propaganda of the German 3rd Reich and followed what the 0b0ts have said over the past 4+ years.

  123. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 13, 2012 at 4:56 pm #

    As a general principle I agree and it has never been my intention to censor ideas on this forum except for expressions that are advertising (see spam), harassing, obscene, illegal, or threaten or promote harm to others. Also persons who appear to have no purpose but to make everybody else angry and distract from the topics at hand are not welcome.

    Rambo Ike: Yes, I agree. 1st Amendment rights are not guaranteed by the owner of a forum. Butt, I believe the owner also knows that by not allowing free speech rebuttals & responces [sic] , he is setting himself up to be seen as allowing the Big Lie as well as pure ignorance to thrive.

  124. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 13, 2012 at 5:01 pm #

    Is there an argument that backs up your assertion? From my viewpoint, it doesn’t seem to have any truth in it. Exactly what are your qualifications as a student of 3rd Reich propaganda? What books have you read? Have you actually read Mein Kampf?

    Rambo Ike: Actually Lupin has it bass ackwards. I followed the 2008 campaign season from its start and the overall political arena in general up to this present time. I can say with complete honesty & void of any doubts, that the 0b0ts {0bama supporters] have been an ongoing reproduction of the trail blazed by Hitler starting in 1919 when he joined the small group that was the forerunner of the National Socialists {NAZIs] as their propagandist. Herr Wolf continued the Big Lie propaganda in his Mein Kampf and on into the ’30s when he started the Ministry of Propaganda and put his close comrade, Herr Goebbels, in charge.

    It’s an errie (sic) feeling for those of us who have studied the propaganda of the German 3rd Reich and followed what the 0b0ts have said over the past 4+ years.

  125. avatar
    misha April 13, 2012 at 5:57 pm #

    Rambo Ike: It’s an errie feeling for those of us who have studied the propaganda of the German 3rd Reich and followed what the 0b0ts have said over the past 4+ years.

    This was their propaganda:
    http://www.gregfelton.com/media/2008_07_08_DerJude.gif
    and
    http://sefershoah.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/poster-guilty-war.jpg

    Obama’s equivalent please. Also, Adolf Schicklgruber’s speeches were ghost written by a Roman Catholic priest, who weighed 300 lbs. There is reason to believe the same priest ghost wrote Mein Kampf.

    “It’s an errie feeling” You mean like this:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/08/coincidence.html

    “those of us who have studied the propaganda of the German 3rd Reich” You have not studied anything. All you do is parrot Fox, Beck and Coulter.

    One final note: I was raised by Survivors. You are dirtying them with your vile allusions.

  126. avatar
    Greenfinches April 13, 2012 at 6:05 pm #

    misha: You are dirtying them with your vile allusions.

    hey Misha – don’t even think about letting this Ike person get to you and yours.

  127. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 13, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    Greenfinches: hey Misha – don’t even think about letting this Ike person get to you and yours.

    I agree. DumboIke plainly has a diseased mind, and based on his inability to spell simple words like “eerie,” is of sub-normal intelligence. His filthy, malformed and derivative ‘ideas’ don’t merit the consideration of civilized human beings like yourself.

    Noli nothis permittere te terere.

  128. avatar
    Rickey April 14, 2012 at 2:50 am #

    Rambo Ike:

    Actually Lupin has it bass ackwards. I followed the 2008 campaign season from its start and the overall political arena in general up to this present time. I can say with complete honesty & void of any doubts, that the 0b0ts {0bama supporters] have been an ongoing reproduction of the trail blazed by Hitler starting in 1919 when he joined the small group that was the forerunner of the National Socialists {NAZIs] as their propagandist. Herr Wolf continued the Big Lie propaganda in his Mein Kampf and on into the ’30s when he started the Ministry of Propaganda and put his close comrade, Herr Goebbels, in charge.

    It’s an errie feeling for those of us who have studied the propaganda of the German 3rd Reich and followed what the 0b0ts have said over the past 4+ years.

    That eerie feeling is caused by your own nonsense blowing in your face from its origin (which isn’t your mouth). .

    When Hitler became Chancellor of Germany, he immediately disbanded the labor unions, shut down opposition newspapers, and forcibly removed his political opponents from office.

    Please show us where Obama has done anything remotely similar to those acts. Has he disbanded any labor unions? Has he shut down any newspapers, radio, or television networks? The last time I checked, World Net Daily is still publishing and Fox News is still on the air. Has Obama forcibly removed any of his political opponents from office?

  129. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 17, 2012 at 12:07 pm #

    Rickey: That eerie feeling is caused by your own nonsense blowing in your face from its origin (which isn’t your mouth). .When Hitler became Chancellor of Germany, he immediately disbanded the labor unions, shut down opposition newspapers, and forcibly removed his political opponents from office.Please show us where Obama has done anything remotely similar to those acts. Has he disbanded any labor unions? Has he shut down any newspapers, radio, or television networks? The last time I checked, World Net Daily is still publishing and Fox News is still on the air. Has Obama forcibly removed any of his political opponents from office?

    Poor Ricky cannot understand the difference between a propaganda machine and the tyrannical acts of a madman.

  130. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 17, 2012 at 1:05 pm #

    misha: This was their propaganda:http://www.gregfelton.com/media/2008_07_08_DerJude.gifandhttp://sefershoah.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/poster-guilty-war.jpgObama’s equivalent please. Also, Adolf Schicklgruber’s speeches were ghost written by a Roman Catholic priest, who weighed 300 lbs. There is reason to believe the same priest ghost wrote Mein Kampf.“It’s an errie feeling” You mean like this:http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/08/coincidence.html “those of us who have studied the propaganda of the German 3rd Reich” You have not studied anything. All you do is parrot Fox, Beck and Coulter.One final note: I was raised by Survivors. You are dirtying them with your vile allusions.

    This is exactly what I mean by “reproduction of NAZI propaganda”:

    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/08/coincidence.html

    You know that picture is a Big Lie, and still, in the style of Hitler, use it. The offsprings of survivors would have the moral decency not to drop down into the abyss of deceit.

  131. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2012 at 1:51 pm #

    I believe that’s more accurately described as “satire.”

    Rambo Ike: You know that picture is a Big Lie

  132. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 17, 2012 at 2:33 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Is there an argument that backs up your assertion? From my viewpoint, it doesn’t seem to have any truth in it. Exactly what are your qualifications as a student of 3rd Reich propaganda? What books have you read? Have you actually read Mein Kampf?

    Definitely there is an argument. Your archives and some of your affiliated sites are laced with evidence to back up my assertion.

    It’s the Big Lie of constant accusations, smears, and insinuations of anyone that is against or doesn’t believe 0bama, is labeled a racist. I’m not accusing you of starting it, but along that 4 year time period the archives show the posters picked up the race-mongering banner and have made it a forum staple. It has been a non-stop drumbeat aimed at the Republicans, Conservatives, Birthers and Tea Party members. Again, it’s a BIG LIE.

    I’ve researched about everything connected to Hitler from his beginning to his end.

  133. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2012 at 3:24 pm #

    The DNC (notarized) and HDP certifications of Obama’s eligibility have been on this web site since early 2009. The Birther story that Obama somehow went to Hawaii to “fix” a faulty certification reminds me very much about what the John Birth Society used to say about Henry Kissinger trips being made to arrange financial crises.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/pelosiaffidavit.pdf

    The South Carolina Democratic Party also certified that Obama was eligible in 2008:

    http://moniquemonicat.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/obama-south-carolina-sec-of-state-respons.pdf

    I also observe that every time I challenge a birther to prove that the other 49 DNC state certifications lack the eligibility text, they don’t reply. My belief is that they really don’t know. They used to say “all 50” until somebody caught them making stuff up and then they changed it to 49.

    If you are such a student of Hitler, then you would know that one group labeling another group “racist” hardly qualifies as a “big lie.” A big lie must be so audacious so as the public would never think someone would tell a lie so big. Race baiting is so common in American politics that no one would be surprised or think it audacious. If you read as much about Hitler as you claim, you must not have understood it very well.

    Rambo Ike: Definitely there is an argument. Your archives and some of your affiliated sites are laced with evidence to back up my assertion.

    It’s the Big Lie of constant accusations, smears, and insinuations of anyone that is against or doesn’t believe 0bama, is labeled a racist. I’m not accusing you of starting it, but along that 4 year time period the archives show the posters picked up the race-mongering banner and have made it a forum staple. It has been a non-stop drumbeat aimed at the Republicans, Conservatives, Birthers and Tea Party members. Again, it’s a BIG LIE.

    I’ve researched about everything connected to Hitler from his beginning to his end.

  134. avatar
    JPotter April 17, 2012 at 4:04 pm #

    Rambo Ike: I’ve researched about everything connected to Hitler from his beginning to his end.

    Really? and what motivated someone calling himself “Rambo” to do so?

  135. avatar
    Scientist April 17, 2012 at 4:21 pm #

    Rambo Ike: It’s the Big Lie of constant accusations, smears, and insinuations of anyone that is against or doesn’t believe 0bama, is labeled a racist

    The birthers can make thsese charges of being biased and unfair go away today. All they need to do is demand 2 different birth certificates from Mitt Rmoney (they should also get a notarized declaration from Stephen Harper swearing that there are no records of a birth in Canada). They should also demand Rmoney’s transcripts from university, high school, elementary school and kindergarten. Also, passport records, draft records, all tax returns back to 1970, and all his records from his time as Governor. If and when he releases them, they need to call them forgeries and get a posse togther to investigate. Then they need to file ballot challenges in all 50 states + DC and when they lose call the judges traitors.

    So, Ike, why won’t you guys make this go away? What are you guys hiding?

  136. avatar
    gorefan April 17, 2012 at 4:48 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: A big lie must be so audacious so as the public would never think someone would tell a lie so big.

    Like an pregnant eighteen year old girl going to Kenya in 1961 by herself to visit her new in-laws?

  137. avatar
    JPotter April 17, 2012 at 5:41 pm #

    gorefan: Like an pregnant eighteen year old girl going to Kenya in 1961 by herself to visit her new in-laws?

    Nah, something large and fundamental.

    Vattelism comes close, but it runs counter to what everyone is taught in school, and thus fails the subtlety test.

    If birthers really want to win by altering reality, they’ve got to get some offline, group dynamics going. Exciting group dynamics, not droning pressers. Moving the last one in a church was a step in the right direction. Now work on the short, the snappy, the upbeat.

    A room full of snoozing elderly isn’t going to catch fire.

    It’s like these guys haven’t run a revolution before.

  138. avatar
    Rickey April 17, 2012 at 6:34 pm #

    Rambo Ike:

    I’ve researched about everything connected to Hitler from his beginning to his end.

    Really? Because you don’t seem to know much about how he came to power and what he did once he took power.

    You still haven’t identified anything which Obama has done which is even remotely similar to Hitler’s actions – e.g., shutting down the unions, closing opposition newspapers and radio stations, putting political opponents in concentration camps, violating international treaties, etc.

    Propaganda is meaningless is the absence of actions.

  139. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 17, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

    gorefan: Like an pregnant eighteen year old girl going to Kenya in 1961 by herself to visit her new in-laws?

    Or DumboIke figuring out how to tie his shoes?

  140. avatar
    misha April 17, 2012 at 10:37 pm #

    Rambo Ike: This is exactly what I mean by “reproduction of NAZI propaganda”:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/08/coincidence.html

    You ain’t seen nothing yet. Here I go full throttle:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2008/10/palin-approved-marriage.html

    Here I go full throttle on Glenn Beck:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-hitler-did-it.html
    and
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/11/glenn-beck-accidentally-not-put-down.html

  141. avatar
    misha April 17, 2012 at 10:45 pm #

    Rambo Ike: I’ve researched about everything connected to Hitler from his beginning to his end.

    – What was Hitler’s mother’s name?
    – What town was he born in, and what country?
    – What did his mother die of?
    – What was his father’s surname at birth?
    – Did Hitler have siblings?

  142. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 18, 2012 at 5:16 am #

    Thanks to Google, it may be possible to answer most questions about Hitler, not knowing much to start with. Let me add some others that might be more difficult:

    – What unusual thing did Hitler do relative to a ceiling in 1923?
    – In that year, what important event occurred relative to Hitler’s personal debts?
    – Who persuaded the Bavarian cabinet to legalize the National Socialist Party?
    – In one speech, what three people did Hitler call “fairies?”
    – What were the orders of the S. A. in case of a Polish attack on Germany in 1932?

    misha: – What was Hitler’s mother’s name?
    – What town was he born in, and what country?
    – What did his mother die of?
    – What was his father’s surname at birth?
    – Did Hitler have siblings?

  143. avatar
    Thrifty April 18, 2012 at 8:19 am #

    No, people who do and say racist things are called racists. They just don’t like being called out on it, so they get all huffy and say “You’re just calling me racist because I disagree with Obama!” rather than even consider defending their indefensible views.

    And Obama starts with the letter ‘O’ for Christ’s sake. It’s not cute or clever to substitute the number ‘0’, it’s lame and obnoxious.

    Rambo Ike: It’s the Big Lie of constant accusations, smears, and insinuations of anyone that is against or doesn’t believe 0bama, is labeled a racist.

  144. avatar
    Thrifty April 18, 2012 at 8:31 am #

    Speaking of lies, Ike we’re still waiting for a source on your claim that the last 4 Presidential candidates prior to Obama had their origins questioned.

    Good touch on drawing a completely false Hitler analogy for shock value. I wonder what people who wanted to vilify their opponents simply by invoking a name did before the 1930s. Hitler really is the go-to guy for when you want to say “This person I dislike is the epitome of evil but I’m too lazy to actually explain why”, and the dude’s only been famous for about 80 years.

  145. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 18, 2012 at 9:44 am #

    Thrifty: No, people who do and say racist things are called racists. They just don’t like being called out on it, so they get all huffy and say “You’re just calling me racist because I disagree with Obama!” rather than even consider defending their indefensible views.And Obama starts with the letter O’ for Christ’s sake. It’s not cute or clever to substitute the number ’0′, it’s lame and obnoxious.

    Sometimes I think it is subconscious for them and they don’t realize the things they say are bigoted or racist. Take for instance when Tim Adams was on the RC Radio show and Mimi read back comments he made on myspace about Hawaii being a ghetto paradise and at the end of his entry asks if what he said was racist and on the show he said “is it?”

  146. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 18, 2012 at 9:45 am #

    Thrifty: It’s not cute or clever

    It goes without saying, since Dumbo is the opposite of clever and cute.

  147. avatar
    Paper April 18, 2012 at 10:26 am #

    Barbary.

    ;-}

    misha: – What was Hitler’s mother’s name?

  148. avatar
    Paper April 18, 2012 at 10:30 am #

    Barbary.

    ;-}

    misha: – What was H!tler’s mother’s name?

  149. avatar
    Thrifty April 18, 2012 at 11:11 am #

    Racism is a tricky thing. I do think there are overly sensitive people who construe innocuous comments as racist. That very principle is a commonly used comedy trope. On the other hand, racists saying the most vile things think they’re making perfectly innocent statements. Racists never admit they’re racist and are offended when accused of it. On the other hand, non-racist people would be similarly (and justifiably) offended when accused of being racist.

    Man, I could study the topic for decades and never fully understand what racism is.

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Sometimes I think it is subconscious for them and they don’t realize the things they say are bigoted or racist.Take for instance when Tim Adams was on the RC Radio show and Mimi read back comments he made on myspace about Hawaii being a ghetto paradise and at the end of his entry asks if what he said was racist and on the show he said “is it?”

  150. avatar
    Lupin April 18, 2012 at 12:06 pm #

    What I like about Breivik’s trial in Norway is that they call it for what it really is: a mental illness — not just an “opinion” (as in, all opinions are equally valid),.

    Rambo Ike and is ilk are mentally sick, that’s what it boils down to. You can tell just by reading his nonsensical diatribes.

  151. avatar
    The Magic M April 18, 2012 at 12:12 pm #

    Thrifty: Racists never admit they’re racist and are offended when accused of it.

    There are exceptions. I saw one the other day on WND who appeared sorta “proud to be racist”. He also claimed blacks should compensate whites for the days of slavery, I kid you not. He seemed to be seriously deluded, not just some troll.

  152. avatar
    The Magic M April 18, 2012 at 12:18 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Thanks to Google, it may be possible to answer most questions about Hitler, not knowing much to start with. Let me add some others that might be more difficult:

    We all know how birthers writhe when they have to explain why Obama should be scrutinized while the GOP candidates should be given a pass.
    Yet the most extreme example of writhing and wiggling is when you go to a German Neo-Nazi forum and watch how their leaders try to pander to the “Hitler was a hero” crowd as well as to the “Hitler was a Jewish NWO agent” crowd. It would be funny if the subject wasn’t so serious.
    But some birther sites remind me of that, including the current pro/contra Orly infights at ORYR or the pro/contra Vattelism infights they had in the past.

  153. avatar
    Thrifty April 18, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    That’s true. There’s an exception to almost every generality. I knew a guy back when I was in high school who said he was a racist. The weirdest thing was that it was apropos of nothing. It was way back in early 1998, so I can’t remember exactly what he said, except that he was giving some oral report in front of our Theology class (which was actually a class about social justice and not so much about the Bible).

    The Magic M: There are exceptions. I saw one the other day on WND who appeared sorta “proud to be racist”. He also claimed blacks should compensate whites for the days of slavery, I kid you not. He seemed to be seriously deluded, not just some troll.

  154. avatar
    JPotter April 18, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

    Lupin: What I like about Breivik’s trial in Norway is that they call it for what it really is: a mental illness — not just an “opinion” (as in, all opinions are equally valid),.

    Leading into an insanity plea? If ever there was an argument for thought police ….

    I did hear the clip where he said he never expected to be so “successful”.

    Whether you feed it to yourself, or someone feeds it to you, Big Lies are Really Bad. Bad enough when they just consume the person. Weapons technology and opinionation propagating, I hope our species/society evolves to accomodate.

  155. avatar
    misha April 18, 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: What were the orders of the S. A. in case of a Polish attack on Germany in 1932?

    Every time I listen to Wagner, I feel like invading Poland. – Woody Allen

  156. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 20, 2012 at 12:42 pm #

    Thomas Brown: No, no. Your kind of ranting, where there is actual feeling and substance, is to be commended. I had heard the name Kehoe, but wasn’t aware of the details.My point was only that the Fox News/Wingnut coalition refers routinely to Bill Ayers as if he were right up there with Kehoe and McVeigh, for the sole purpose of smearing Obama because of some tenuous connection the President has with him. Even though in Ayer’s days as a radical BHO would have been a small child, and in any case Ayers’ protest bombings were aimed at damaging buildings and never injured anyone.It’s part of their Big Lie. That’s all.

    Tenuous connection? Too funny!

    Bill Ayers: “Kill all the rich people. … Bring the revolution home. Kill your parents.”

    Bill Ayers as an anti-American revolutionary commumist was to cause the collapse of the United States and to create, in its stead, a new communist society over which they themselves would rule. With regard to those Americans who might refuse to embrace communism, Ayers and his comrades proposed that such resisters should be sent to reeducation camps and killed. The terrorists estimated that it would be necessary to eliminate some 25 million people in this fashion, so as to advance the revolution.

    Statements from “Prairie Fire” a book co-written by Ayers and other Weather Underground members:

    “We are a guerrilla organization. We are communist women and men … deeply affected by the historic events of our time in the struggle against U.S. imperialism.” “We need a revolutionary communist party in order to lead the struggle, give coherence and direction to the fight, seize power and build the new society.” “The only path to the final defeat of imperialism and the building of socialism is revolutionary war.”

    In 1995, Ayers and Dohrn hosted meetings at their Chicago home to introduce Barack Obama to their neighbors and political allies, as Obama prepared to make his first run for the Illinois state senate. In 1999 Ayers joined the Woods Fund of Chicago, where he served as a board member alongside Barack Obama until December 2002, at which time Obama left. Ayers went on to become Woods’ board chairman.

    In 2001, Ayers expressed his enduring hatred for the United States: “What a country. It makes me want to puke.” 0bama endorsed 1 of Ayers’s books

  157. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 20, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

    He got better.

    Rambo Ike: Bill Ayers: “Kill all the rich people. … Bring the revolution home. Kill your parents.”

  158. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 20, 2012 at 1:00 pm #

    Rambo Ike: Tenuous connection? Too funny!

    Bill Ayers: “Kill all the rich people. … Bring the revolution home. Kill your parents.”

    Bill Ayers as an anti-American revolutionary commumist was to cause the collapse of the United States and to create, in its stead, a new communist society over which they themselves would rule. …The terrorists estimated that it would be necessary to eliminate some 25 million people in this fashion, so as to advance the revolution.

    “We are a guerrilla organization. We are communist women and men … deeply affected by the historic events of our time in the struggle against U.S. imperialism.”…struggle, give coherence and direction to the fight, seize power and build the new society.” “The only path to the final defeat of imperialism and the building of socialism is revolutionary war.”

    In 1995, Ayers and Dohrn hosted meetings at their Chicago home…where he served as a board member alongside Barack Obama until December 2002, at which time Obama left. Ayers went on to become Woods’ board chairman.

    In 2001, Ayers expressed his enduring hatred for the United States: “What a country. It makes me want to puke.” 0bama endorsed 1 of Ayers’s books

    All lies. I don’t believe a word of it.

  159. avatar
    Obsolete April 20, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    Geez, Birthers have no sense of humor when it comes to radical 60’s and 70’s writings. They take everything literally. Don’t anyone introduce Rambo Ike to Abbie Hoffman or Jerry Rubin… (or my favorite: Emmett Grogan)

  160. avatar
    JPotter April 20, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    Obsolete: Don’t anyone introduce Rambo Ike to Abbie Hoffman or Jerry Rubin…

    How are they on Larouche?

  161. avatar
    Thrifty April 20, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

    [citation needed]

    Rambo Ike: In 2001, Ayers expressed his enduring hatred for the United States: “What a country. It makes me want to puke.” 0bama endorsed 1 of Ayers’s books

  162. avatar
    misha April 20, 2012 at 8:20 pm #

    Rambo Ike: In 2001, Ayers expressed his enduring hatred for the United States: “What a country. It makes me want to puke.”

    Citation please.

    Santorum: JFK’s speech about separating his role as leader from his Catholic faith, made him “want to throw up.”

  163. avatar
    misha April 20, 2012 at 8:36 pm #

    Rambo Ike: Ayers expressed his enduring hatred for the United States: “What a country. It makes me want to puke.”

    This makes me want to puke: “(Miller County, Arkansas) Two boy scout counselors, 17 year old Clayton Frady and 18 year old David litickabee [sic], the son of Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, have admitted to catching a stray dog during their summer session at Camp Pioneer in Hatfield, AR, and hanging the dog by his neck, slitting his throat and stoning him to death.”

    Gov. Huckabee squashed charges against his son.

    http://crooksandliars.com/2007/12/16/huckabee-squashed-charges-against-his-son-for-stoning-hanging-dog

  164. avatar
    misha April 20, 2012 at 9:02 pm #

    Rambo Ike: With regard to those Americans who might refuse to embrace communism, Ayers and his comrades proposed that such resisters should be sent to reeducation camps and killed.

    OK, let’s try this:
    – Jerry Falwell: “The anti-Christ is walking among us in the shape of a male Jew.”
    – John Hagee: “The anti-Christ will be Jewish, as was Karl Marx, as was Adolf H–.”

    Haggard to non-Christians: Get out of town.
    http://www.rickross.com/reference/fundamentalists/fund196.html

    Ted Haggard: “He moved the church to a strip mall. There was a bar, a liquor store, New Life Church, a massage parlor. His congregation spilled out and blocked the other businesses. He set up chairs in the alley. He strung up a banner: SIEGE THIS CITY FOR ME, signed JESUS. He assigned everyone in the church names from the phone book they were to pray for. He sent teams to pray in front of the homes of supposed witches—in one month, ten out of fifteen of his targets put their houses on the market. His congregation “prayer-walked” nearly every street of the city.”

    Pastor Dennis Terry Introduces Rick Santorum, Tells Non-Christians To Get Out’ Of U.S.
    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/pastor-dennis-terry-introduces-rick-santorum-tells-non-christians-to-get-out/

    “Listen to me,” he continued. “If you don’t love America and you don’t like the way we do things, I have one thing to say… GET OUT! “We don’t worship Buddha!” he yelled. “I said we don’t worship Buddha, we don’t worship Mohammed. We don’t worship Allah. We worship God. We worship God’s son Jesus Christ.”

    Santorum is seen in the crowd, clapping.

  165. avatar
    Northland10 April 20, 2012 at 9:56 pm #

    Woods Fund?

    What We Fund

    Overview of Our Grantmaking Program

    The Woods Fund is particularly interested in supporting those organizations and initiatives that focus on enabling work and reducing poverty within Chicago’s less- advantaged communities. Grants are given exclusively to organizations that focus on the metropolitan Chicago region

    http://www.woodsfund.org/site/epage/61436_735.htm

    Helping people into work and out of poverty, which will get them off of government assistance. And Rambo finds this private sector solution wrong?

    Rambo Ike: In 1995, Ayers and Dohrn hosted meetings at their Chicago home to introduce Barack Obama to their neighbors and political allies, as Obama prepared to make his first run for the Illinois state senate. In 1999 Ayers joined the Woods Fund of Chicago, where he served as a board member alongside Barack Obama until December 2002, at which time Obama left. Ayers went on to become Woods’ board chairman.

  166. avatar
    misha April 21, 2012 at 2:43 am #

    Northland10: Helping people into work and out of poverty, which will get them off of government assistance. And Rambo finds this private sector solution wrong?

    It’s perfectly logical for a conservative: Willard Romney said of the auto companies, “let them go bankrupt.” He had zero objection to the same thing for banks and brokerages. He now says his landmark healthcare legislation was wrong, and he’ll repeal “Obamacare.”

    If it’s for ordinary people, it’s socialism. If it’s for corporations, it’s good business. Michele Bachmann took $250K in farm subsidies. ADM got a 50/gal. tariff on Brazilian ethanol. Cattle ranchers do not pay market rates to graze on public land. That’s not welfare for the wealthy; it’s good business.

    Michele Bachmann tells the IRS she’s a farmer; she tells everyone else she’s a legislator. It’s not hypocrisy; her lord told her she’s doing the right thing. She always talks about how she prays for guidance. She and her ilk encourage the Israeli government to go down the same road as South Africa. No turmoil, no Armageddon.

    See how it works?

  167. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 21, 2012 at 6:43 pm #

    Let me get this straight… RamboIke wets his diapers over ’60s radicals who advocated bringing down the Government with a violent revolution, and the websites he frequents suggest as a course of action today… bringing down the Government with a violent revolution.

    So, guess what, O rabid Birther?

    You have become Abbie Hoffman.

    You have become Malcolm X.

    You have become Bill Ayers.

  168. avatar
    misha April 21, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    Thomas Brown: Let me get this straight… RamboIke wets his diapers over ’60s radicals who advocated bringing down the Government with a violent revolution, and the websites he frequents suggest as a course of action today… bringing down the Government with a violent revolution.

    Ted Nugent to NRA: “Your Fault for Not Shooting Him” – Nugent told his audience that they should view President Obama and other Democrats as wild animals invading their homes. Like a coyote “in your living room pissing on your couch. It’s not the coyote’s fault. It’s your fault for not shooting him.”
    Read on: http://news.yahoo.com/ted-nugent-nra-fault-not-shooting-him-194400679.html

  169. avatar
    Keith April 21, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    Rambo Ike: Bill Ayers as an anti-American revolutionary commumist was to cause the collapse of the United States and to create, in its stead, a new communist society over which they themselves would rule.

    Maybe. But that was over 40 years ago, and he has repented.

    On the other hand Mr. and Mrs. Palin were supporting anti-American wannabe bomb makers as late as 2006, a mere two years before Mrs. Palin attempted to install herself a mere heartbeat from the Presidency of the United States. Todd Palin was a member of the Alaskan Independence Pary and Sarah Palin attended their conferences and gave keynote addresses, taping them when she became Governor.

    Bill Ayers never had a legitimate chance to realize his sophmoric plan. Sarah Palin did.

    Governor Sarah Palin gives taped address to the Alaskan Independence Party

    Todd Palin joined the AIP

    Founder Of Group Palin Courted Professed “Hatred For The American Government”; Cursed “Damn Flag”

    Meet Joe Vogler, founder of the AIP

    Wikipedia: Joe Vogler Disappearance and Death

    Vogler disappeared under suspicious circumstances in May 1993, just weeks before he was scheduled to give a speech to the United Nations on Alaskan independence, sponsored by the government of Iran. Convicted thief Manfried West confessed to having murdered Vogler the following year in what he described as an illegal plastic explosive sale gone bad. West, trying to recant, later said the confession was a lie, but this was before Vogler’s body had been discovered. Vogler’s remains were discovered in a gravel pit east of Fairbanks in October 1994 following an anonymous tip. They had been wrapped in a blue tarp secured with duct tape and were identified through fingerprint analysis.Manfried West was convicted of murdering Joe Vogler and is serving an 80 year sentence.

    As the founder and inspiration of the Australian Independence Party he had garnered enough influence to elect a Governor and attract the the favor of a future Governor and Vice Presidential Candidate. As a man his hatred for America was so deep that he refused to be buried on American soil.

    An “illegal plastic explosives sale” gone wrong or murder? It doesn’t matter. What matters is what was this man going to do with plastic explosives?

    You like to paint President Obama with the 40 year old crimes Bill Ayers even though the only connection is that they lived in the same neighborhood (so did thousands of others) and as community activists they would have crossed paths on occasion.

    Well, Sarah Palin is far closer to anti-American terrorists than President Obama has ever been to Bill Ayers. And neither she, nor the Alaskan Independent Party has ever repudiated Joe Vogler. To this day the AIP considers Vogler a hero and (Alaskan) patriot.

    You really should learn to focus your bile on those who actually deserve it.

  170. avatar
    Keith April 21, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    Rambo Ike: Bill Ayers as an anti-American revolutionary commumist was to cause the collapse of the United States and to create,

    Oh, yeah, by the way.. that is not true.

    Ayers addressed the methods and purposes of the Weather Undergound in 2008:

    from the wikipedia article “Bill Ayers”

    In an op-ed piece in 2008, Ayers gave this assessment of his actions:

    ” The Weather Underground crossed lines of legality, of propriety and perhaps even of common sense. Our effectiveness can be — and still is being — debated.”

    He also reiterated his rebuttal to the charge of terrorism:

    ” The Weather Underground went on to take responsibility for placing several small bombs in empty offices…. We did carry out symbolic acts of extreme vandalism directed at monuments to war and racism, and the attacks on property, never on people, were meant to respect human life and convey outrage and determination to end the Vietnam war.

    I am not defending the man, and never have. However it is clear that the Weathermen knew that their goal was not to ‘overthrow’ the government and bring in a Workers Paradise.

    That they were criminal terrorists, even though Ayers denies they were terrorists, is beyond doubt. That they were revolutionaries with a serious plan to overthrow the Government is absurd.

    That the only ones that Joe Vogler and the Weather Underground ended up killing were themselves is truly fortunate.

    That Bill Ayers rationalizes his own own personal responsibility and motives is understandable, but he also acknowledges that he is “’embarrassed by the arrogance, the solipsism, the absolute certainty that we and we alone knew the way. The rigidity and the narcissism”.

    Anyway, the fact remains that President Obama repudiates Bill Ayers, the Weather Underground, and their tactics.

    Sarah Palin has never repudiated Joe Vogler’s avowed tactics and the AIP continues to honor him as a patriot.

  171. avatar
    misha April 21, 2012 at 9:40 pm #

    Keith: Maybe. But that was over 40 years ago, and he has repented.

    All charges against him and his wife were dropped. No conviction, no crime. See Kenneth Lay.

    Besides, repentence is only for religionists like Charles Colson. Everyone writes about Colson’s prison ministry. In fact, Colson spent 40 years trying to subvert the 1st Amendment. He was actively opposed to seperation of church and state, he was a homophobe, and prisoners who joined his ministry were given better treatment than those who refused.

    Is Sarah Palin A Closet John Bircher?
    Complete story: http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/18/is-sarah-palin-a-closet-john-bircher/

    “And sure enough, the article that Palin is proudly displaying in this portrait is a copy of the March 1995 edition of New American, the house organ of the Birch Society.”

  172. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 21, 2012 at 10:53 pm #

    JPotter: Really? and what motivated someone calling himself “Rambo” to do so?

    My handle had nothing to do with it. It was because of the Left’s Big Lies aimed at Bush administration during his 1st term.

    Naziism was a totalitarian government like Communism, Fascism, Islamic government, and Orwell’s Big Brother dystopia. All on the far-Left side of the political spectrum.

    The Nazis colluded with communist Russia to start WWII.

  173. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 21, 2012 at 11:11 pm #

    Scientist: The birthers can make thsese charges of being biased and unfair go away today. All they need to do is demand 2 different birth certificates from Mitt Rmoney (they should also get a notarized declaration from Stephen Harper swearing that there are no records of a birth in Canada). They should also demand Rmoney’s transcripts from university, high school, elementary school and kindergarten. Also, passport records, draft records, all tax returns back to 1970, and all his records from his time as Governor. If and when he releases them, they need to call them forgeries and get a posse togther to investigate. Then they need to file ballot challenges in all 50 states + DC and when they lose call the judges traitors.So, Ike, why won’t you guys make this go away? What are you guys hiding?

    Your hypocrisy radiates.

  174. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 21, 2012 at 11:25 pm #

    Dr. conspiracy: “If you are such a student of Hitler, then you would know that one group labeling another group “racist” hardly qualifies as a “big lie.” A big lie must be so audacious so as the public would never think someone would tell a lie so big. Race baiting is so common in American politics that no one would be surprised or think it audacious. If you read as much about Hitler as you claim, you must not have understood it very well.”

    I’m not a student of Hitler, nor a history scholar, as best a buff who has researched a number of subjects/issues from history.

    Maybe it’s because you’ve been too close to yours and affiliated forums for such a long period of time that the influence is affecting your ability to look at it objectivly. This is not race baiting.

  175. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 21, 2012 at 11:41 pm #

    Rickey: Really? Because you don’t seem to know much about how he came to power and what he did once he took power.You still haven’t identified anything which Obama has done which is even remotely similar to Hitler’s actions – e.g., shutting down the unions, closing opposition newspapers and radio stations, putting political opponents in concentration camps, violating international treaties, etc. Propaganda is meaningless is the absence of actions.

    Why muddy the text by twisting what I said? I wasn’t comparing 0bama to Hitler.

  176. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 21, 2012 at 11:45 pm #

    misha: You ain’t seen nothing yet. Here I go full throttle:http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2008/10/palin-approved-marriage.htmlHere I go full throttle on Glenn Beck:http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-hitler-did-it.htmlandhttp://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/11/glenn-beck-accidentally-not-put-down.html

    Why attack Beck with lies and smears? He is an anti-Birther – one of your comrades-in-arms

  177. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 22, 2012 at 12:04 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Thanks to Google, it may be possible to answer most questions about Hitler, not knowing much to start with. Let me add some others that might be more difficult:- What unusual thing did Hitler do relative to a ceiling in 1923?- In that year, what important event occurred relative to Hitler’s personal debts?- Who persuaded the Bavarian cabinet to legalize the National Socialist Party?- In one speech, what three people did Hitler call “fairies?”- What were the orders of the S. A. in case of a Polish attack on Germany in 1932?

    1- Shot a gun at the beer hall ceiling and yelled “silence”
    2- German marks devaluing {?]
    3- Franz Gunther (sp) or Striecher (sp)
    4- 2 possibilties: lot of fags among the original founding members of the Nazis, or later when it was decided to kill off Rohm. Note: Hitler was listed as a sexual pervert in Vienna
    5- No idea – Humor: Ban all imports of polish keilbasa, anyone caught using it in their kraut dinners will be jailed.
    ———————————
    1- Maria
    2- Braun Am, Austria, near the German border – there is another name for it but I don’t remember it
    3- Cancer
    4- Schicklgruber
    5- Lots of siblings – only 2 I can name is Alois & Paula

  178. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 22, 2012 at 12:25 am #

    Thomas Brown: Let me get this straight… RamboIke wets his diapers over ’60s radicals who advocated bringing down the Government with a violent revolution, and the websites he frequents suggest as a course of action today… bringing down the Government with a violent revolution.So, guess what, O rabid Birther?You have become Abbie Hoffman.You have become Malcolm X.You have become Bill Ayers.

    Do you get it off by lying? You were posting in the same thread on Bad Fiction when McKinnion tried this. My answer was that I agreed with Klayman & Sellin except for the part about revolution or the violent overthrow of our government.

  179. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 22, 2012 at 1:18 am #

    misha: All charges against him and his wife were dropped. No conviction, no crime. See Kenneth Lay.Besides, repentence is only for religionists like Charles Colson. Everyone writes about Colson’s prison ministry. In fact, Colson spent 40 years trying to subvert the 1st Amendment. He was actively opposed to seperation of church and state, he was a homophobe, and prisoners who joined his ministry were given better treatment than those who refused.Is Sarah Palin A Closet John Bircher?Complete story: http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/18/is-sarah-palin-a-closet-john-bircher/“And sure enough, the article that Palin is proudly displaying in this portrait is a copy of the March 1995 edition of New American, the house organ of the Birch Society.”

    “All charges against him and his wife were dropped. No conviction, no crime.”

    In 1970, Ayers’ then-girlfriend Diana Oughton, along with Weatherman members Terry Robbins and Ted Gold, were killed when a bomb they were constructing exploded unexpectedly. That bomb had been intended for detonation at a dance that was to be attended by hundreds of Army soldiers at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Ayers himself attested that the bomb would have done serious damage, “tearing through windows and walls and, yes, people too.” Notably, Ayers’ fingerprints were found at the bomb-making site, along with an assortment of anti-personnel weapons, stabbing implements, C-4 plastic explosive, and dozens of Marxist-Leninist publications.

    In 1980 Ayers and Dohrn surrendered to law-enforcement authorities, but all charges against them were later dropped due to an “improper surveillance” technicality — government authorities had failed to get a warrant for some of their surveillance. Said Ayers regarding this stroke of good fortune: “Guilty as sin, free as a bird. America is a great country.”

    In 1994 Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, and Michael Klonsky were among those listed on a “Membership, Subscription and Mailing List” for the Chicago Committees of Correspondence, an offshoot of the Communist Party USA.

    All told, Ayers and the Weather Underground were responsible for 30 bombings aimed at destroying the defense and security infrastructures of the U.S. “I don’t regret setting bombs,” said Ayers in 2001, “I feel we didn’t do enough.” Contemplating whether or not he might again use bombs against the U.S. sometime in the future, he wrote: “I can’t imagine entirely dismissing the possibility.”

    “We are building a communist organization to be part of the forces which build a revolutionary communist party to lead the working class to seize power and build socialism. […] We must further the study of Marxism-Leninism within the WUO. The struggle for Marxism-Leninism is the most significant development in our recent history. […] We discovered thru our own experiences what revolutionaries all over the world have found—that Marxism-Leninism is the science of revolution, the revolutionary ideology of the working class, our guide to the struggle […]”

  180. avatar
    Scientist April 22, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    Rambo Ike: Your hypocrisy radiates.

    Really? The hypocricy is to demand proof from one candidate different from that demanded of others. Two birth certificates from Obama are insufficient, yet 0 from Rmoney is fine in your view. Come back when you are ready to ask from Rmoney what you ask for from Obama. And if Rmoney actually does post an electronic copy of a Michigan (or Ontario) b.c., I expect you to explain that it isn’t legally valid since it’s only a set of pixels and you want access to the originals just to check..

    But you will never do that, you hypocriite…

  181. avatar
    Scientist April 22, 2012 at 10:52 am #

    For the record I note that Bill Ayers is not on the ballot. He has been given no position in the Obama Administration, official or unofficial. There is no evidence that he has had any communication whatsoever with the President since Obama took office. Nor do any actual communists believe Obama is one of their own, not even secretly. They consider him a sold-out tool of Wall Street (which is true to a fair extent). The choice in November is between 2 Wall Street tools, one of whom throws a few bones to working people every so often, and one who has spent much of his life screwing them over and wishes to get power so he can do even more of that. A candidate who actually represented working people would be a healthy thing for the American political scene, but I don’t expect one anytime soon. And no. Bill Ayers, is not who i had in mind. Nor even close..

  182. avatar
    bob j April 22, 2012 at 11:17 am #

    Rambo Ike: Why muddy the text by twisting what I said? I wasn’t comparing 0bama to Hitler.

    Yes, you did. Rambo Ike, you compared the President to Hitler. Or more precisely his followers ( really, Obots. how very trekkie of you and yours.) So did you mean to say that the followers are rabid, but the man is sane? As a student ( who waited quite a long time to answer some pretty direct questions), of the 3rd Reich you know that the followers are an extension of the man, right?

    your words:
    “I followed the 2008 campaign season from its start and the overall political arena in general up to this present time. I can say with complete honesty & void of any doubts, that the 0b0ts {0bama supporters] have been an ongoing reproduction of the trail blazed by Hitler starting in 1919 when he joined the small group that was the forerunner of the National Socialists {NAZIs] as their propagandist. Herr Wolf continued the Big Lie propaganda in his Mein Kampf and on into the ’30s when he started the Ministry of Propaganda and put his close comrade, Herr Goebbels, in charge.

    It’s an errie feeling for those of us who have studied the propaganda of the German 3rd Reich and followed what the 0b0ts have said over the past 4+ years.

  183. avatar
    misha April 22, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    Scientist: A candidate who actually represented working people would be a healthy thing for the American political scene, but I don’t expect one anytime soon.

    I would like to see the mayor of Rabbit Hash, Kentucky as our next president. Truly, that mayor always puts people first.

  184. avatar
    Keith April 22, 2012 at 7:49 pm #

    Rambo Ike: “I don’t regret setting bombs,” said Ayers in 2001, “I feel we didn’t do enough.”

    For the record, that is not what Ayers said, and he strenuously denies it.

    “This is not a question of being misunderstood or ‘taken out of context’, but of deliberate distortion.” In the ensuing years, Ayers has repeatedly avowed that when he said he had “no regrets” and that “we didn’t do enough” he was speaking only in reference to his efforts to stop the United States from waging the Vietnam War, efforts which he has described as “. . . inadequate [as] the war dragged on for a decade.” Ayers has maintained that the two statements were not intended to imply a wish they had set more bombs.

    (text from Wikipedia, emphasis mine)

  185. avatar
    Thrifty April 22, 2012 at 8:15 pm #

    Who the Hell is this Bill Ayers guy anyway and how did he become one of the boogeymen for anti-Obama cranks?

  186. avatar
    misha April 22, 2012 at 9:46 pm #

    Rambo Ike: The Nazis colluded with communist Russia to start WWII.

    That is unmitigated crap.

  187. avatar
    misha April 22, 2012 at 9:49 pm #

    Thrifty: Who the Hell is this Bill Ayers guy anyway and how did he become one of the boogeymen for anti-Obama cranks?

    The same way Saul Alinsky was dragged out of obscurity.

  188. avatar
    Rickey April 22, 2012 at 11:03 pm #

    Rambo Ike:

    The Nazis colluded with communist Russia to start WWII.

    That is one of the dumbest things you have posted to date, which is saying a lot.

    The reality is that Stalin wanted to form an anti-fascist alliance with the west, but Neville Chamberlain was opposed to it. Stalin believed that without such a pact, war between Germany and the Soviet Union was inevitable.

    Stalin had no interest in starting World War II, but he could see that war was coming and he needed more time to prepare. From his perspective, the Nazi-Soviet pact of 1939 was signed to buy him time.

  189. avatar
    Rickey April 22, 2012 at 11:07 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Who the Hell is this Bill Ayers guy anyway and how did he become one of the boogeymen for anti-Obama cranks?

    http://factcheck.org/2008/10/he-lied-about-bill-ayers/

  190. avatar
    Obsolete777 April 23, 2012 at 12:59 am #

    Rambo Ike: Naziism was a totalitarian government like Communism, Fascism, Islamic government, and Orwell’s Big Brother dystopia. All on the far-Left side of the political spectrum.

    TOTALLY WRONG AND RIDICULOUS.

  191. avatar
    misha April 23, 2012 at 1:55 am #

    Rambo Ike: Naziism was a totalitarian government like Communism, Fascism, Islamic government, and Orwell’s Big Brother dystopia. All on the far-Left side of the political spectrum.

    “Naziism was a totalitarian government like Communism, Fascism, Islamic government”

    – Nazism and fascism are the same. They are the polar opposite of communism.
    – “Naziism was a totalitarian government like…Islamic government” Better tell that to NATO, since Turkey is a member.
    – “Naziism was a totalitarian government like Communism” I spent a year at a kibbutz. Somehow, I missed that. I saw a raucous democracy. What happened?
    – “All on the far-Left side of the political spectrum.” Fascism and Nazism are far right. Communism is far left.

    For someone who claims to know history in depth, you aren’t even close on any assertion.

  192. avatar
    misha April 23, 2012 at 2:14 am #

    Rambo Ike: Naziism was a totalitarian government like Communism

    Socialism needs democracy like the human body needs oxygen. – Leon Trotsky

  193. avatar
    dunstvangeet April 23, 2012 at 2:25 am #

    Not only Fascism and Nazism are on the far right, but also most of the Islamic Governments. None of them are actually on the far left.

  194. avatar
    The Magic M April 23, 2012 at 5:53 am #

    misha: “Naziism was a totalitarian government like…Islamic government” Better tell that to NATO, since Turkey is a member.

    Turkey has an Islamic government? They may have some Islamic influences which are part of the reason the EU is hesitant to accept Turkey as a member, but so far the military has been adamant in their stance that they would not allow an Islamic takeover and would stage a coup (again) should this ever come to pass (one might argue that “democracy by military fiat” is also a bad thing, but that’s not my issue here).

    Obsolete777: TOTALLY WRONG AND RIDICULOUS.

    Ironically, it has historically (post-WW2) been the German right wing which claimed “National Socialists were primarily socialists” and thus also tried to pin the Nazis at the left end of the political spectrum (though the prime motive was smearing the social democrats, not distancing themselves from Naziism).

  195. avatar
    Northland10 April 23, 2012 at 6:40 am #

    Rambo Ike: nor a history scholar, as best a buff who has researched a number of subjects/issues from history.

    I suggest you actually do your research at a library and not the RWNJ/JBS History Coloring Book.

  196. avatar
    misha April 23, 2012 at 6:59 am #

    Northland10: JBS History Coloring Book.

    Bush is having his autobiography signing at Toys Я Us. It’s a pop-up book.

  197. avatar
    Rickey April 23, 2012 at 9:35 am #

    The Magic M:

    Ironically, it has historically (post-WW2) been the German right wing which claimed “National Socialists were primarily socialists” and thus also tried to pin the Nazis at the left end of the political spectrum (though the prime motive was smearing the social democrats, not distancing themselves from Naziism).

    If Rambo Ike knew as much about Nazi Germany as he thinks he knows, he would know that the Führer despised socialism, Some of the early Nazis were socialists, but they became disillusioned (and were purged) when they came to realize that National Socialism was socialist in name only.

    Calling Nazi Germany “socialist” is akin to calling North Korea a democratic republic.

  198. avatar
    Sef April 23, 2012 at 11:27 am #

    misha: Bush is having his autobiography signing at ToysЯ Us. It’s a pop-up book.

    Toys Я Us has a horror section?

  199. avatar
    Obsolete April 23, 2012 at 1:34 pm #

    Rickey:

    Calling Nazi Germany “socialist” is akin to calling North Korea a democratic republic.

    Rambo Ike probably also believes the Salvation Army must have artillery.

  200. avatar
    misha April 23, 2012 at 3:24 pm #

    Obsolete: Rambo Ike probably also believes the Salvation Army must have artillery.

    They don’t?! Uh, oh.