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Are you being served?

A curious notice appeared on the Docket of the Grinols v. Electoral College lawsuit in the Eastern District of California. It is the statement of a process server in Hawaii who attempted to serve a subpoena on state vital records chief Dr. Alvin Onaka. As I pointed out in another article, Orly Taitz sues Dr. Onaka a lot. This time it’s just a subpoena, but she’s trying to get the same records, to which she is not entitled, as always.

In this case the server, one Lawrence B. Fenton, executed service by putting papers on a desk and uttering the magic incantation “You are served” in front of a security guard and a secretary, both of whom said they were not authorized to accept service.

Dorothy from the Wizard of OzAnybody remotely familiar with The Federal Rules of Magical Civil Procedure should know that when serving a defendant by magic incantation, the spell must be repeated three times, not two, as for example in the The Wizard of Oz where Dorothy had to say “there’s no place like home” three times before the Oz Wizengamot granted the motion to remand her case to Kansas.

EDCA ECF 28 – Grinols v Electoral College – Second and Third Attempt at Personal Service of Subpoena on Ona…

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46 Responses to Are you being served?

  1. avatar
    john December 28, 2012 at 10:08 am #

    “This time it’s just a subpoena, but she’s trying to get the same records, to which she is not entitled, as always.”

    Actually this not true. Jill Nagamine could have attempted to compromise with Orly by allowing Orly access to records but chose to dive into what she called frivilous litigation. How could Nagamine allow Orly access to the records?…. it’s actaully very very simple.

    Hawaii law does allow Hawaii DOH employees access to vital records under the law.

    I would have suggested to Nagamine make this proposal to Orly Taitz.

    Orly Taitz will be employed by the Hawaii DOH as a worker. Under the law, Orly, as an employee of the Hawaii DOH, will be allowed to see and view Obama’s original BC, but no more. After Orly has seen Obama’s BC, Orly’s employment with the Hawaii DOH will be terminated.

  2. avatar
    john December 28, 2012 at 10:10 am #

    If Orly really wants to perfect service, she should gather a few individuals to track Onaka’s movements. Onaka has to leave the building sometime, and when he does, he will be served.

  3. avatar
    bgansel9 December 28, 2012 at 10:17 am #

    Who needs books? I’ve got great storytelling just by watching the circus that is the life of Orly Taitz (oops, or should that be Titz?)

  4. avatar
    Bob December 28, 2012 at 10:25 am #

    In return, Onaka should serve Orly with an (invalid) restraining order.

  5. avatar
    Paper December 28, 2012 at 11:01 am #

    Ha! Ha! Ha!

  6. avatar
    Paper December 28, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    This requires more than three laughs.

    john: Orly Taitz will be employed by the Hawaii DOH as a worker.

  7. avatar
    MN-Skeptic December 28, 2012 at 11:31 am #

    john: I would have suggested to Nagamine make this proposal to Orly Taitz.

    Orly Taitz will be employed by the Hawaii DOH as a worker.

    Not going to happen. Unlike Taitz, Nagamine is sane.

  8. avatar
    john December 28, 2012 at 11:31 am #

    Orly’s process server should have had photos and video ready so Orly could use that as evidence of service in court.

  9. avatar
    Northland10 December 28, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    john: Orly Taitz will be employed by the Hawaii DOH as a worker. Under the law, Orly, as an employee of the Hawaii DOH, will be allowed to see and view Obama’s original BC, but no more.

    Being employed does not give an employee the right to look at every record contained by the organization. They may only view those records if it is part of a normal business process. Therefore, the only way Orly could see it, as an employee, would be if a request was made to copy the record or if she was doing some entry work that required looking at various records.

    In short, even your crazy idea would be a fail. It is a perfect example of fractal wrongness.

  10. avatar
    Norbrook December 28, 2012 at 12:27 pm #

    Northland10: Being employed does not give an employee the right to look at every record contained by the organization.They may only view those records if it is part of a normal business process.Therefore, the only way Orly could see it, as an employee, would be if a request was made to copy the record or if she was doing some entry work that required looking at various records.

    Not to mention opening her up to various criminal charges and lawsuits against her. I used to work in a hospital, as a systems admin for a big chunk of the electronic medical records. That didn’t give me the right to walk in (or browse through) anyone’s medical record just because I felt like it. Doing so would have resulted in a quick trip out the door, at the very least.

  11. avatar
    Thomas Brown December 28, 2012 at 12:53 pm #

    Look, john. This is getting old.

    Orly Taitz is nobody. She has no authority. She and you can “demand” all you want, but everybody can simply laugh. Congress, the Courts, and the Majority of Citizens have decided Obama is legitimate. That’s all that counts. If you don’t like it, tough bananas.

    Got that? You can drop the haughty tone, like the President hasn’t personally satisfied you or Orly. Who give’s a rat’s rear? The courts and everyone else can tell you both, and every other birther, to FOAD, without fear. Nobody’s afraid of treason or aiding and abetting charges. It’s all bullguano.

    And by the way, that will never change. There is not going to be a day when the world discovers you have been right all along. That’s what your sub-text is: you think that’s gonna happen. Only it ain’t. Ever. History will record birthers as nutcases. End of story.

    Stick a fork someplace; you’re done.

  12. avatar
    Paper December 28, 2012 at 12:55 pm #

    They do have standards, you know.

    john:

    Orly Taitz will be employed by the Hawaii DOH as a worker.

  13. avatar
    Rickey December 28, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

    john:

    I would have suggested to Nagamine make this proposal to Orly Taitz.

    Orly Taitz will be employed by the Hawaii DOH as a worker. Under the law, Orly, as an employee of the Hawaii DOH, will be allowed to see and view Obama’s original BC, but no more. After Orly has seen Obama’s BC, Orly’s employment with the Hawaii DOH will be terminated.

    Wow. You have said a lot of stupid things on this blog, but that takes the cake.

    In addition to what others here have said, what makes you think that Orly would be satisfied with merely seeing the birth certificate? She’d want to have it carbon dated, at least.

  14. avatar
    Joe Acerbic December 28, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

    It would be fun though to let Orly get her hands on a reproduction of the original, videotape her eating it and then laugh her out. Too bad civil servants aren’t allowed pranks like that.

  15. avatar
    Reality Check December 28, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    John must be jy. The idea that the DoH hire Taitz sounds like vintage jy nuttiness. He also thinks Terry Lakin is a hero.

  16. avatar
    Majority Will December 28, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    Rickey: In addition to what others here have said, what makes you think that Orly would be satisfied with merely seeing the birth certificate? She’d want to have it carbon dated, at least.

    Actually, it’s a safe bet that the raving lunatic and disgraceful POS would do everything and anything possible to destroy the President’s records to cover up the truth of his Hawaiian birth.

  17. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 28, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    john:
    If Orly really wants to perfect service, she should gather a few individuals to track Onaka’s movements.Onaka has to leave the building sometime, and when he does, he will be served.

    That’s called stalking.

  18. avatar
    misha marinsky December 28, 2012 at 2:22 pm #

    I suggest john read Civilization and Its Discontents, and then do a lot of introspection.

    I read it twice: It was required reading in college, and I re-read it after 9/11.

  19. avatar
    misha marinsky December 28, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: That’s called stalking.

    Denialists: felons and fascists.

  20. avatar
    RetiredLawyer December 28, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    What I can not fathom, as a former attorney who routinely had people served, is that Orly and the other birther attorneys use ordinary people to attempt service. There are professional process servers everywhere, especially in a major city like Honolulu, their fees are reasonable, and they do the job correctly the first time.

  21. avatar
    realist December 28, 2012 at 3:18 pm #

    john:
    Orly’s process server should have had photos and video ready so Orly could use that as evidence of service in court.

    LOL…

    It’s not evidence of anything but nonsense.

    When speaking of service one must include the word “proper” service… in other words, according to the rules.

    Even if there had been an agent authorized to accept service, the subpoena is invalid and unenforceable and Orly’s already been told by the courts, more than once, that she’s not entitled to anything she’s asking for. Even if Onaka lost his mind and showed for a deposition or in court, he would not be able, by law, to produce any of them. without a court order from a court of competent jurisdiciton.

    Not. Gonna. Happen.

  22. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 28, 2012 at 3:43 pm #

    I expect John to grow more crazed and desperate, the closer we get to January 6th.(4th according to some unverifiable things I read online, so take that it a grain of salt.)
    I suspect he’ll go completely unglued and become one of the morons screaming for an armed march on DC on Inauguration Day. The more hopeless a birther gets, the more they show their true colors.

  23. avatar
    SluggoJD December 28, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

    Reality Check:
    John must be jy. The idea that the DoH hire Taitz sounds like vintage jy nuttiness. He also thinks Terry Lakin is a hero.

    JY???

  24. avatar
    JPotter December 28, 2012 at 4:05 pm #

    misha marinsky: I suggest john read

    I suggest pigs try flying. ;)

  25. avatar
    Daniel December 28, 2012 at 4:09 pm #

    john:

    I would have suggested to Nagamine make this proposal to Orly Taitz.

    Orly Taitz will be employed by the Hawaii DOH as a worker. Under the law, Orly, as an employee of the Hawaii DOH, will be allowed to see and view Obama’s original BC, but no more. After Orly has seen Obama’s BC, Orly’s employment with the Hawaii DOH will be terminated.

    Really John? Really?

    Are you seriously suggesting that Hawaii fraudulenty hire Taitz as a pretense to circumventing the state’s privacy laws? That’s a felony… several actually.

    Not to mention that you counselling Nagamine to commit this felony, is in itself a felony.

    Congratulations John, you’ve just proven you’re willing to commit a felony to promote your delusions and foment sedition. What’s it like to be a criminal, John?

  26. avatar
    Joe Acerbic December 28, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    RetiredLawyer:
    There are professional process servers everywhere, especially in a major city like Honolulu, their fees are reasonable, and they do the job correctly the first time.

    …which would reduce opportunities for the usual “Waahh!! I served them but they won’t respond and nobody cares because they’re all corrupt traitors!” drama.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 28, 2012 at 4:39 pm #

    JY22077 is a commenter who appears in chat during Reality Check Radio programs and on various Internet forums. His writing certainly resembles that of our commenter here, John. And please remember, we don’t publish real names associated with screen names on this forum unless the commenter chooses to make it public.

    SluggoJD: JY???

  28. avatar
    Rickey December 28, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    RetiredLawyer:
    What I cannot fathom, as a former attorney who routinely had people served, is that Orly and the other birther attorneys use ordinary people to attempt service.There are professional process servers everywhere, especially in a major city like Honolulu, their fees are reasonable, and they do the job correctly the first time.

    Orly would rather have a volunteer try for free than pay a real process server. She has even used Christopher Earl-Strunk in esse! I wouldn’t trust Strunk to pick up my dry cleaning.

    Orly tried to serve Governor Brown of California by serving the state’s Attorney General. The state has pointed out that the governor cannot be served through the Attorney General.

  29. avatar
    Thomas Brown December 28, 2012 at 5:52 pm #

    misha marinsky:
    I suggest john read Civilization and Its Discontents, and then do a lot of introspection.

    I read it twice: It was required reading in college, and I re-read it after 9/11.

    Thanks Misha. You prodded me to finally read that. I just ordered a first US printing (1930). I have a vexing malady that causes me to read any work in the oldest edition I can afford.

  30. avatar
    Rickey December 28, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    JY22077 is a commenter who appears in chat during Reality Check Radio programs and on various Internet forums. His writing certainly resembles that of our commenter here, John. And please remember, we don’t publish real names associated with screen names on this forum unless the commenter chooses to make it public.

    I would say that there is a high probability of a match. JY22077 has been touting some of the same things as John, including an objection during the joint session of Congress. He even was pushing the ridiculous idea of marking dollar bills.

    JY22077 lives in Lady Lake, Florida and John has mentioned attending Tea Party meetings at The Villages, which is part of Lady Lake. Coincidence?

  31. avatar
    ObiWanCannoli December 28, 2012 at 6:15 pm #

    I don’t think any professional service providers want to be associated with the deranged and crazy orly taitz. Even the toughest Sheeruf in the country, Joe Arpiao, doesn’t want her anywhere near him. This is why she is resorting to her FMs to effect service or lack thereof.

  32. avatar
    Daniel December 28, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    I can imagine some professional Process Servers looking at what she gives them and telling her they can’t legally serve that.

    Of course that’s just speculation on my part, but I would imagine Process Services rely on reputation to some extent? Can anyone comment on that?

  33. avatar
    AlCum December 29, 2012 at 12:50 am #

    john:
    Orly’s process server should have had photos and video ready so Orly could use that as evidence of service in court.

    Makes no difference. She has no right to the document. She will be thrown out of court yet again. Hawaii already certified the fact of Obama’s natural born citizenship. Case is closed.

  34. avatar
    gorefan December 29, 2012 at 1:32 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: 4th according to some unverifiable things I read online, so take that it a grain of salt.)

    Actually Congress passed a Resolution changing the date to the 4th.

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hjres122enr/pdf/BILLS-112hjres122enr.pdf

  35. avatar
    Northland10 December 29, 2012 at 1:48 am #

    RetiredLawyer:
    What I cannot fathom, as a former attorney who routinely had people served, is that Orly and the other birther attorneys use ordinary people to attempt service.There are professional process servers everywhere, especially in a major city like Honolulu, their fees are reasonable, and they do the job correctly the first time.

    She may have used a professional server once before. Unfortunately, all I know of this is from the affidavit of service for her Indiana case she submitted as evidence for her default request in her Mississippi case. Even the best process servers would be truly incapable of anticipating the myriad of new and original ways Orly will find the screw up service.

  36. avatar
    roadburner December 29, 2012 at 6:36 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:

    I suspect he’ll go completely unglued and become one of the morons screaming for an armed march on DC on Inauguration Day.

    theyre trying to organise it now, but theres doubts as one of the minibusses has problems and wont start.

    still, theyll all fit in a short bus

  37. avatar
    jayHG December 29, 2012 at 7:32 am #

    john:
    “This time it’s just a subpoena, but she’s trying to get the same records, to which she is not entitled, as always.”

    Actually this not true.Jill Nagamine could have attempted to compromise with Orly by allowing Orly access to records but chose to dive into what she called frivilous litigation.How could Nagamine allow Orly access to the records?…. it’s actaully very very simple.

    Hawaii law does allow Hawaii DOH employees access to vital records under the law.

    I would have suggested to Nagamine make this proposal to Orly Taitz.

    Orly Taitz will be employed by the Hawaii DOH as a worker. Under the law, Orly, as an employee of the Hawaii DOH, will be allowed to see and view Obama’s original BC, but no more. After Orly has seen Obama’s BC, Orly’s employment with the Hawaii DOH will be terminated.

    You guys, John is a troll who with this post has convinced me that he’s just fooling around to see if he can get a rise out of you. Saying that Orly should be hired so she can see private birth records is so completely stupid that he has to be joking.

    I stopped responding to John some time ago. He come here and makes one or two ridiculous posts and that’s it. He’s a silly man…or woman…and this post proves it.

  38. avatar
    jayHG December 29, 2012 at 7:41 am #

    Northland10: Being employed does not give an employee the right to look at every record contained by the organization.They may only view those records if it is part of a normal business process.Therefore, the only way Orly could see it, as an employee, would be if a request was made to copy the record or if she was doing some entry work that required looking at various records.

    In short, even your crazy idea would be a fail.It is a perfect example of fractal wrongness.

    And not even then would she have access. Those are sensitive records that only certain folks would have access to, like for example my personnel records. Those types of records would never be handed over to a copy room person to copy.

    So no way would oily titz have access to those types of records just cause she works there, and John knows this. He’s just a silly troll. This post of his/hers proves it.

  39. avatar
    y_p_w December 29, 2012 at 11:39 am #

    Norbrook: Not to mention opening her up to various criminal charges and lawsuits against her.I used to work in a hospital, as a systems admin for a big chunk of the electronic medical records.That didn’t give me the right to walk in (or browse through) anyone’s medical record just because I felt like it. Doing so would have resulted in a quick trip out the door, at the very least.

    I do recall that there have been several cases where hospital workers were fired for accessing records of celebrities. These workers weren’t selling the info or otherwise profiting from the info; they just did it out of curiosity. That still got them fired.

    As for Orly accessing the records – what would it achieve. Disclosing the contents of a record outside of the normal employment practices would open one up to assorted lawsuits. Even if there aren’t criminal penalties per se, wouldn’t a birth record still be considered a medical record (especially with all the additional medical info not seen in a certified birth record)?

  40. avatar
    y_p_w December 29, 2012 at 11:54 am #

    Daniel:
    I can imagine some professional Process Servers looking at what she gives them and telling her they can’t legally serve that.

    Of course that’s just speculation on my part, but I would imagine Process Services rely on reputation to some extent? Can anyone comment on that?

    Only had one direct experience with a process server. I’m guessing quite a few have long-standing relationships with law firms. Other than that professional process servers are typically chosen randomly in DIY civil cases such as evictions.

    I’ve also served on a jury in a civil trial. One of the defendants getting served came up during the trial. The girlfriend of one of the plaintiffs served the papers. That defendant indicated that she came up to him (he didn’t know her) asked him if he was “Mr. X” and then dropped an envelope at his feet. That’s all that’s required in California.

    At least in California anyone who is at least 18 and “not part of the case” can serve papers up to 10 times in a calendar year without registering as a licensed process server. I think technically an apartment manager can serve an unlawful detainer since the manager technically wouldn’t be a party to the case, since the landlord(s) are the actual plaintiffs.

  41. avatar
    y_p_w December 29, 2012 at 12:13 pm #

    RetiredLawyer:
    What I cannot fathom, as a former attorney who routinely had people served, is that Orly and the other birther attorneys use ordinary people to attempt service.There are professional process servers everywhere, especially in a major city like Honolulu, their fees are reasonable, and they do the job correctly the first time.

    I mentioned a civil jury case where I was on the jury. The plaintiffs had attorneys, but one had his girlfriend serve the claim to a defendant.

    I’ve dealt with one process server. He was very professional and was willing to personally pick up the papers within a few hours. Quite a few had second day service or required that the papers be mailed in or otherwise delivered to their offices. As we were handing him a check, I asked how he did it. He said that he’s straightforward, knocks or rings the doorbell, asks if someone is “Mr. X”, hands the envelope (or drops it at their feet it they refuse to take it), says “You’ve been served”, and walks away. In reading about the process, some servers go to great lengths to disguise their intentions, including pretending to be delivering a package. The box either contains the papers or is brought out from under the box.

    I’ve seen that most servers in California say they’ll make three attempts, which is what’s prescribed by California law before there can be some sort of substituted service (leaving it with another adult or leaving a copy at the door and mailing a separate copy). I think that’s essentially what it comes down to once someone starts actively avoiding a process server. I also understand that in California the maximum fee for a process server is set by law. If a plaintiff prevails, the defendant is typically liable for all process serving fees. I don’t know how this might work for serving a subpoena.

  42. avatar
    RetiredLawyer December 29, 2012 at 12:31 pm #

    Not to digress too far from the point of the blog, but what Orly is trying and failing at is service of an application for a TRO on either an individual in his personal capacity or on an individual in his representative capacity, when that individual is not, actually, the person being handed the papers. For fairly obvious reasons, when trying to serve the POTUS by serving someone else, one has to follow the rules. In the case of trying to serve the POTUS or the US in general, the rules are quite specific as to how this can be done. Professional process servers know these rules, or can easily look them up, non-professionals flounder about and get it wrong.

    Simplest rules are that not everyone who works for the US, or a corporation, is authorized by the US, or corporation, or law, to accept service of process. Orly just does not understand this.

  43. avatar
    Rickey December 29, 2012 at 2:25 pm #

    jayHG: You guys, John is a troll who with this post has convinced me that he’s just fooling around to see if he can get a rise out of you. Saying that Orly should be hired so she can see private birth records is so completely stupid that he has to be joking.

    I stopped responding to John some time ago. He come hereand makes one or two ridiculous posts and that’s it. He’s a silly man…or woman…and this post proves it.

    I disagree with you on that. I believe that John is serious, albeit horribly misguided and deluded. If he is who I think he is, he posts the same idiocy on his Facebook page.

  44. avatar
    Dave December 29, 2012 at 2:48 pm #

    I agree, John is no troll. He’s just posting what he thinks. I disagree with him — but I don’t think he’s a troll.

    Inciidentally — if he’s the same John who posts over at ORYR — his comments there are not as crazy as most of what gets posted. And he doesn’t get a lot of respect from the other birthers. Probably for that reason.

  45. avatar
    Daniel December 29, 2012 at 4:44 pm #

    I agree. While John is obviously reality challenged. I believe he is sincere… which makes it all the more pathetic, in the classic sense of the word.

  46. avatar
    Rickey December 29, 2012 at 8:19 pm #

    Dave:

    Inciidentally — if he’s the same John who posts over at ORYR — his comments there are not as crazy as most of what gets posted. And he doesn’t get a lot of respect from the other birthers. Probably for that reason.

    John needs to become overtly racist if he wants respect at ORYR.

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