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Reverse engineering Dr. Onaka

Birther blogger Butterdezillion has a reputation for, how shall I say it, “non-linear thinking.” She’s a pretty good researcher, persistent and I think accurate. The problem with her writing is that the conclusions typically turn out the opposite of what one gets with the usual rules of logic.

The latest example of BZ’ discovery of hidden meaning in plain text is a letter purportedly faxed to every member of Congress in which she says, in part:

Hawaii state registrar Alvin Onaka has publicly certified to AZ SOS Ken Bennett that Barack Obama’s HI birth certificate is legally non-valid and the White House image is a forgery. He also confirmed to KS SOS Kris Kobach that the information contained in the White House image is NOT “identical to” that in the official record.

Cat staring off into spaceI had read that paragraph before without attribution at various web sites, and it frankly made no sense. Now with Butterdezillion’s name attached, the explanation is no longer a mystery. You see, what you don’t say is more important to Butterdezillion than what you do say, and in this case apparently only some special magic formulation can convey Obama’s eligibility, and any failure to use the magic words means the opposite is true. BZ reminds me of the cat in a Kliban cartoon captioned: “Cats see things we don’t.”

What Onaka actually said to Bennett was:

Additionally, I verify that the information in the copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Mr. Obama that you attached with your request matches the original record in our files.

What Onaka actually said to Kobach was:

  1. The original Certificate of Live Birth for Barack Hussein Obama, II, is on file with the State of Hawaii Department of Health.
  2. The file number for the Certificate of live Birth for Barack Hussein Obama, II, is 151 61 10641.
  3. The information contained in the “Certificate of Live Birth” published at http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate and reviewed by me on the date of this verification, a copy of which is attached with your request, matches the information contained in the original Certificate of Live Birth for Barack Hussein Obama, II on file with the State of Hawaii Department of Health.

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73 Responses to Reverse engineering Dr. Onaka

  1. avatar
    gorefan December 29, 2012 at 10:27 pm #

    She actually only faxed it to Republican members of Congress. Here is her side of things.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2972710/posts

  2. avatar
    ASK Esq December 29, 2012 at 11:26 pm #

    The Hawaii verifications have caused the birthers to tie themselves up in knots so intricate that a squad of boy scouts, working day and night, would take years to disentangle them. After all, they could no longer really say that there was no legal proof of Obama’s birth in Hawaii, so they would only be left with Vattel. Thus, they had no choice but to try to figure out a way to make three legally valid and binding verifications go away. Butter’s is simply a prime example of twisting words to make them say something other than what they clearly and undeniably say.

  3. avatar
    Joey December 30, 2012 at 12:38 am #

    Federal Rule of Evidence 1005

    RULE 1005. COPIES OF PUBLIC RECORDS TO PROVE CONTENT

    “The proponent may use a copy to prove the content of an official record — or of a document that was recorded or filed in a public office as authorized by law — if these conditions are met: the record or document is otherwise admissible; and the copy is certified as correct in accordance with Rule 902(4) or is testified to be correct by a witness who has COMPARED it with the original. If no such copy can be obtained by reasonable diligence, then the proponent may use other evidence to prove the content.”

    Obviously Nellie (Butterdezillion) isn’t acquainted with the concept of comparing things and finding out that sometimes they MATCH. Nellie takes “one of these things is not like the other” to an obsessive-compulsive extreme; a complication of her Obama Derangement Syndrome Disorder.

  4. avatar
    BillTheCat December 30, 2012 at 1:58 am #

    Reading that screed just confirms the woman is a complete lunatic.

    No one in congress or anyone else in the real world cares about her mentally ill theories or cracked view of reality.

    gorefan:
    She actually only faxed it to Republican members of Congress. Here is her side of things.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2972710/posts

  5. avatar
    gorefan December 30, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

    BillTheCat: anyone else in the real world cares about her mentally ill theories or cracked view of reality.

    That’s what fascinates me about her. The absolute total belief in the delusions. Her stuff isn’t just a theory or belief, it is an absolute fact for her. Whatever the motives of other guys like Corsi and Arpaio, I believe she is the real deal.

    The affidavit she wrote must be quite the tour de force.

  6. avatar
    Mary Brown December 30, 2012 at 12:24 pm #

    I am a member of the same Lutheran Synod. While many members view this as crazy there are enough folks who really believe as she does to give pause.

  7. avatar
    scott e. December 30, 2012 at 4:06 pm #

    could be another hoax.

  8. avatar
    euphgeek December 30, 2012 at 4:20 pm #

    The scary thing about butterdezillion is that she teaches kids. Let that sink in for a minute. This obviously mentally ill person has access to young minds to shape and mold in whatever way she sees fit.

  9. avatar
    Dianne December 30, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    The links are for old statements. Yes, it’s odd that there is no proof that he actually made the claim but you havent proved anything either. Guess we need to just wait and see if any official statements are released. It may very well be that Dr Onaka decided to finally speak the truth given the scary turn of events since election day

  10. avatar
    Majority Will December 30, 2012 at 6:12 pm #

    Dianne:
    The links are for old statements. Yes, it’s odd that there is no proof that he actually made the claim but you havent proved anything either. Guess we need to just wait and see if any official statements are released. It may very well be that Dr Onaka decided to finally speak the truth given the scary turn of events since election day

    What proof do you personally require?
    Obviously, that’s all that matters.
    If Dr. Onaka came to your home and supplied all of the documentation that satisfies you, would that change your mind?

    The country awaits your decision.

  11. avatar
    gorefan December 30, 2012 at 6:15 pm #

    Dianne: The links are for old statements

    You consider May, 2012 and September, 2012 as old statements?

  12. avatar
    Arthur December 30, 2012 at 6:17 pm #

    Dianne:
    It may very well be that Dr Onaka decided to finally speak the truth given the scary turn of events since election day

    Whatever you need to keep your hopes and dreams alive.

  13. avatar
    gorefan December 30, 2012 at 6:30 pm #

    Dianne: scary turn of events

    Does that include the white guy didn’t win?

  14. avatar
    donna December 30, 2012 at 6:32 pm #

    Diane:

    have you filed your objections with your elected officials?

    “If any objections to the Electoral College vote are made, they must be submitted in writing and be signed by at least one member of the House and one Senator. If objections are presented, the House and Senate withdraw to their respective chambers to consider their merits under procedures set out in federal law.”

  15. avatar
    Dianne December 30, 2012 at 6:35 pm #

    All I’m saying is that the latest claims have no supporting evidence . My initial gut feeling was that the image on the WH website is a forgery and intentially obvious one too. Has anyone ever heard a WH official say that they believe it’s authentic? I havent but do hear them say they believe he was born in the US, which I also can say. I think it was forged because Frank Marshall Davis is his real dad.
    Anyhoo, if it makes u happy, go ahead and gaslight me and others who question the authenticity of the “birth certificate” on white
    house site – I can take it

  16. avatar
    euphgeek December 30, 2012 at 6:42 pm #

    Dianne:
    All I’m saying is that the latest claims have no supporting evidence .

    No claim by any birther has ever had any supporting evidence. Why should this time be any different? The supporting evidence on Obama’s side has always been ironclad. The state of Hawaii verified that he was born there. In case you weren’t aware, they get the final say on who is or is not a natural born citizen for all people they issue a birth certificate for.

    My initial gut feeling

    …is irrelevant in a court of law or anywhere else other than inside your own head.

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 30, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    Would you like to flesh that out, state an opinion, or add something to the discussion?

    scott e.: could be another hoax.

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 30, 2012 at 8:03 pm #

    Following my gut feeling makes me fat.

    If the White House long form birth certificate were a forgery, and an obvious one, then qualified forensic experts would be writing journal articles about it instead of email and blog entries saying they don’t see anything wrong.

    I admit that I have never looked at the long form trying to find anything wrong with it, but I have spent a lot of time examining things claimed by others, and finding no valid objection to its authenticity in them.

    Dianne: My initial gut feeling was that the image on the WH website is a forgery and intentially obvious one too.

  19. avatar
    Daniel December 30, 2012 at 8:16 pm #

    Dianne:
    All I’m saying is that the latest claims have no supporting evidence . My initial gut feeling was that the image on the WH website is a forgery and intentially obvious one too.

    What was your initial gut feeling for Ronald Reagan’s BC, or either of the Bush’s, or for any previous President in the history of the USA?

    Oh right, you didn’t see their BC, in fact you didn’t even ask to see it…. in fact you didn’t even think to question their eligibility for even a second, you just took it for granted without even a thought.

    So what is different about this President that you choose to pick him out for special scrutiny that you never even considered for any other President in history?

    Hmmm……

  20. avatar
    gorefan December 30, 2012 at 8:39 pm #

    Dianne: All I’m saying is that the latest claims have no supporting evidence .

    So you don’t believe that three different certified verifications that say that all the information on the whitehouse pdf matches all the information on the original birth certificate on file at the DOH in Hawaii is supporting evidence?

    Do you believe that someone created a forged BC pdf and put all the same information on it that was on the original BC?

  21. avatar
    JPotter December 30, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

    I keep wondering how my former cat found her way into this article. Guinevere, is that you?

  22. avatar
    Keith December 30, 2012 at 10:02 pm #

    gorefan: Do you believe that someone created a forged BC pdf and put all the same information on it that was on the original BC?

    That’s my pet peeve.

    Birth Certificate Document Analysis for Dummies: It’s the INFORMATION, not the medium

  23. avatar
    euphgeek December 30, 2012 at 10:14 pm #

    Keith: That’s my pet peeve.

    Birth Certificate Document Analysis for Dummies: It’s the INFORMATION, not the medium

    Birthers always think they’ve found the next Killian documents.

  24. avatar
    gorefan December 30, 2012 at 10:20 pm #

    Keith: That’s my pet peeve.

    Mine too. My other one is that Dr. Onaka specifically verified to Secretary of State Bennett that the entry for Box 6c of both the pdf and the original LFBC is “Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecolological Hospital” and there is no scenario that can be dreamed up to explain that entry other than birth at “Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecolological Hospital”. No grandparents registering the birth, no amended birth certificate, nothing else makes logical sense.

  25. avatar
    Arthur December 30, 2012 at 10:35 pm #

    Dianne: Anyhoo, if it makes u happy, go ahead and gaslight me and others who question the authenticity of the “birth certificate” on white
    house site – I can take it

    Gaslight–that’s a new term to me. Anyway . . . if you enjoy doing so, continue to question the authenticity of President Obama’s birth certificate. People have been doing that for over four years and you can see what the result has been. You’ll be able to share your doubts with a small group of enthusiasts, but you’ll find the people empowered to actually do something about eligibility, whether Republican or Democrat, will take you as a vexatious kook.

    I wish you well in your endeavors and hope that your questions lead you to the truth.

  26. avatar
    gorefan December 30, 2012 at 10:39 pm #

    Arthur: Gaslight–that’s a new term to me.

    Never see the movie “Gaslight”?

  27. avatar
    donna December 30, 2012 at 10:50 pm #

    Keith:

    i like the “someone” part

    who is that?

    Arpaio said he SUSPECTS the birth certificate President Obama released last year is a “computer-generated forgery”

    his investigators said they have identified “a person of interest” in the birth certificate matter.

    who is that “person of interest”?

  28. avatar
    Arthur December 30, 2012 at 10:53 pm #

    gorefan: Never see the movie “Gaslight”?

    Sure. I’ve also directed the play upon which the movie was based. If I take your point correctly, you’re saying that to “gaslight” someone is use subterfuge to make the subject doubt his or her sanity?

    Hmmm. I, for one, would never try to make birthers crazier than they already are.

  29. avatar
    Arthur December 30, 2012 at 10:59 pm #

    donna: his investigators said they have identified “a person of interest” in the birth certificate matter.

    who is that “person of interest”?

    Why are you Obots always so ready to believe objective facts freely available to everyone, yet you question the existence of a mysterious “person of interest” whose identity has never been revealed.

    Don’t you understand how conspiracies work??!!

  30. avatar
    gorefan December 30, 2012 at 11:34 pm #

    Arthur: If I take your point correctly

    Well, that’s the usual meaning for the term to “gaslight” someone. Of course it’s posible that Dianne has her own meaning in mind.

  31. avatar
    gorefan December 30, 2012 at 11:38 pm #

    donna: Arpaio said he SUSPECTS the birth certificate President Obama released last year is a “computer-generated forgery”

    He also said the certifcate number was out of sequence, that the handwritten codes were wrong and that the layers could only be caused by a forger. All of those were not true. So, why believe anything else he says?

  32. avatar
    Thomas Brown December 30, 2012 at 11:41 pm #

    Arthur: Sure. I’ve also directed the play upon which the movie was based. If I take your point correctly, you’re saying that to “gaslight” someone is use subterfuge to make the subject doubt his or her sanity?

    Hmmm. I, for one, would never try to make birthers crazier than they already are.

    Party pooper.

  33. avatar
    Dianne December 30, 2012 at 11:51 pm #

    Arthur , you’ll remember in the play/movie the murderous husband’s initial goal was to get the maid to believe the wife was crazy so he’d have an ally and leverage for his accusations . That’s what I believe Obama Admin does regularly whether it’s the birth cert or Osama Bin Laden killing doubters—or anyone who believes differently than him.

  34. avatar
    euphgeek December 30, 2012 at 11:55 pm #

    Dianne:
    Arthur , you’ll remember in the play/movie the murderous husband’s initial goal was to get the maid to believe the wife was crazy so he’d have an ally and leverage for his accusations . That’s what I believe Obama Admin does regularly whether it’s the birth cert or Osama Bin Laden killing doubters—or anyone who believes differently than him.

    Yeah, how dare Obama make people who deny facts and reality look crazy!

  35. avatar
    Arthur December 31, 2012 at 12:31 am #

    Dianne:
    Arthur , you’ll remember in the play/movie the murderous husband’s initial goal was to get the maid to believe the wife was crazy so he’d have an ally and leverage for his accusations . That’s what I believe Obama Admin does regularly whether it’s the birth cert or Osama Bin Laden killing doubters—or anyone who believes differently than him.

    I’m not sure what you’re suggesting, but it appears that you believe Obama (i.e. the murderous husband Jack Manningham) is using people like me (i.e., the naughty maid Nancy) to make you (i.e.,Bella Manningham) think you’re crazy for doubting the veracity of Obama’s birth certificate and the killing of bin Laden.

    I’ve seen Martha Trowbridge and her associates make similar claims.

    Anyway, if what I’ve described accurately characterizes your fears, then I have a simple solution: don’t visit websites that you believe are out to get you. Just keep to birther sites. There are lots of them! That way, you can avoid mockery and ridicule and your beliefs can flower under the warm attention of like-minded people. Of course, the fantastical blooms that flourish in a birther hothouse don’t do well in the cold light of reason, but neither does paranoia.

  36. avatar
    Majority Will December 31, 2012 at 12:51 am #

    The tiny hate filled world of birther paranoia is a pathetic and dark fantasy land.

  37. avatar
    gorefan December 31, 2012 at 1:11 am #

    Dianne: in the play/movie the murderous husband’s initial goal was to get the maid to believe the wife was crazy so he’d have an ally and leverage for his accusations .

    Be careful Dianne, if you stretch an analogy to far, it will break.

  38. avatar
    SluggoJD December 31, 2012 at 2:45 am #

    Mary Brown:
    I am a member of the same Lutheran Synod. While many members view this as crazy there are enough folks who really believe as she does to give pause.

    In other words, there are lots of crazy people.

  39. avatar
    SluggoJD December 31, 2012 at 2:48 am #

    Dianne:
    The links are for old statements. Yes, it’s odd that there is no proof that he actually made the claim but you havent proved anything either. Guess we need to just wait and see if any official statements are released. It may very well be that Dr Onaka decided to finally speak the truth given the scary turn of events since election day

    LOL, and there’s no proof that little fairies ride Bigfoots on Venus, but it hasn’t been disproved yet!! I guess we should wait and see if anyone goes to Venus and proves it isn’t true.

    You fool no one.

  40. avatar
    SluggoJD December 31, 2012 at 2:50 am #

    Dianne:
    All I’m saying is that the latest claims have no supporting evidence . My initial gut feeling was that the image on the WH website is a forgery and intentially obvious one too. Has anyone ever heard a WH official say that they believe it’s authentic? I havent but do hear them say they believe he was born in the US, which I also can say. I think it was forged because Frank Marshall Davis is his real dad.
    Anyhoo, if it makes u happy, go ahead and gaslight me and others who question the authenticity of the “birth certificate” on whitehouse site – I can take it

    Well of course you can take it, because you’re an evil racist piece of dog doodoo.

  41. avatar
    SluggoJD December 31, 2012 at 2:53 am #

    Dianne:
    Arthur , you’ll remember in the play/movie the murderous husband’s initial goal was to get the maid to believe the wife was crazy so he’d have an ally and leverage for his accusations . That’s what I believe Obama Admin does regularly whether it’s the birth cert or Osama Bin Laden killing doubters—or anyone who believes differently than him.

    And yet you, and hundreds of other crazy racist evil birthers, are still alive.

    Amazing.

  42. avatar
    dunstvangeet December 31, 2012 at 4:06 am #

    Dianne:
    Yes, it’s odd that there is no proof that he actually made the claim but you havent proved anything either.

    You do realize that the entirity of the proof offered by the birthers that Obama’s real father is Frank Marshall Davis is the following.

    1. Obama’s grandfather knew Frank Marshall Davis 10 years after Obama was born.
    2. Frank Marshall Davis is black.
    3. Frank Marshall Davis was living in Hawaii.

    Yet, with that evidence, you believe that Obama’s real father is Frank Marshall Davis, and not the person who Alvin T. Onaka has said is on the birth certificate multiple times?

    I’ll give them this. It’s more evidence than they presented when they floated the theory that Malcolm X was Obama’s real father (who never lived in Hawaii).

    As far as actual proof, guess what. All Obama would need to do is present the birth certificate he release 4 and 1/2 years ago, and the court would say, “Obama was born to Barack Hussein Obama I and Stanley Ann Dunham on August 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii” and that would be that.

    Alvin T. Onaka, not only though that, but also through his certifications of the birth certificate, has said that all the information on the birth certificate matches what the Hawaii Department of Health has on file.

    So, we’re left with the following two scenarios.

    1. Either Obama took all the information on the birth certificate, and then forged another birth certificate with all the same information that the Hawaii Department of Health has on file. Seems like a lot of work for someone who had original copies both the short-form and long-form birth certificates.

    2. The birthers are full of crap, and Obama’s birth certificate is real.

  43. avatar
    roadburner December 31, 2012 at 6:12 am #

    Dianne: All I’m saying is that the latest claims have no supporting evidence . My initial gut feeling was that the image on the WH website is a forgery and intentially obvious one too. Has anyone ever heard a WH official say that they believe it’s authentic? I havent but do hear them say they believe he was born in the US, which I also can say. I think it was forged because Frank Marshall Davis is his real dad.Anyhoo, if it makes u happy, go ahead and gaslight me and others who question the authenticity of the “birth certificate” on whitehouse site – I can take it

    dianne,
    something to consider and question.

    at the atlanta hearing (where taitz turned down a default judgement, preferring to publicly screw the pooch) a copy of the WH PDF was presented as evidence of fact and accepted into evidence by the court.

    there were no objections from ANY of the birfoons there. taitz didnt make a peep, and the empty chair just sat there. its now a matter of court record and evidence.

    and yet, to date no birfoon has tried to make a claim of perjury or any accusations of that type.

    now why do you think that could be?

  44. avatar
    bgansel9 December 31, 2012 at 8:41 am #

    To Dianne:
    Bithers have gaslighted themselves. Take responsibility for your own actions, isn’t that what the rightwingers say?

  45. avatar
    Scientist December 31, 2012 at 8:58 am #

    bgansel9: To Dianne:
    Bithers have gaslighted themselves. Take responsibility for your own actions, isn’t that what the rightwingers say?

    If the White House is really engaged in a clever strategy to mess with the birthers’ “minds” by posting documents that appear phony (to birthers) but are actually quite real, then the smartest counter strategy for the birthers is to simply accept the documents as genuine and move on. By admitting the birth certificate’s reality, the birthers frustrate the President’s evil schemes and, therefore, win.

  46. avatar
    scott e. December 31, 2012 at 9:01 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Would you like to flesh that out, state an opinion, or add something to the discussion?

    would you post it ? it’s all or nothing man, not just selective. but no, i haven’t been able to confirm the obama shuffle story, at this time i don;t know any more than you do. but we’ve all seen these kinds of things before, my position hasn’t changed. i don’t expect much during the holidays, but i’ve been wrong before. it’s still a great caper, for sure.

  47. avatar
    Reality Check December 31, 2012 at 9:24 am #

    That is a a classic understatement.

    scott e.: but i’ve been wrong before

  48. avatar
    donna December 31, 2012 at 9:26 am #

    from the ditz:

    False information

    Someone is spreading false information.

    Alvin Onaka never issued any statement admitting to forgery. PP simmons posted an article, where he said that it might be related to my subpoenas. This is not correct.

    The only thing I got was a fax from Jill Nagamine, deputy attorney general of Hawaii, where she objected to subpoena. Among the objections is that $975 received by Onaka with the subpoena is not enough, that the court (Judge England and the plaintiffs, presidential electors and Presidential Candidates do not have a tangible interest) and so on. I am dealing with it an a number of other issues, such as filing proofs of service of process and buying tickets for witnesses. there are a number of other things.

    At any rate a report by Albert Hendershott that Onaka admitted to forgery is flagrantly wrong, there is no such admission.

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=372569

  49. avatar
    JPotter December 31, 2012 at 10:00 am #

    Keith: It’s the INFORMATION, not the medium

    But, Keith, They Are All Fake. They Are All In On It. Yadda.

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 31, 2012 at 10:37 am #

    Orly proves that there are different flavors of crazy.

    donna: At any rate a report by Albert Hendershott that Onaka admitted to forgery is flagrantly wrong, there is no such admission.

  51. avatar
    donna December 31, 2012 at 10:44 am #

    doc: Orly proves that there are different flavors of crazy.

    ROCKY ROAD?

  52. avatar
    scott e. December 31, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    Reality Check:
    That is a a classic understatement.

    i guess that’s a birther flaw, being open minded, admitting imperfection. i see it’s nellie not hendershott. i’ve never spoken to either of them. maybe you could have them on your show.
    has anyone spoken to onaka yet ? how come no one else spoke to verna k ? that would seem logical to me. is she too old ??

  53. avatar
    LW December 31, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

    Dianne: The links are for old statements.

    Just to be clear: those are the statements butter is referring to.

    Yes, it’s odd that there is no proof that he actually made the claim

    No, it’s odd that she thinks she has given proof. It’s an abomination that people are reading her headline and not grokking that the whole story (or lack thereof) is right there in her article, and that it utterly contradicts the headline. Dr. C. explains what she’s trying to say above.

    If it makes you feel any better, the fact that you think there must be more to the story is proof that you’re less crazy than butter. Just be aware that this is a very, very low hurdle to clear.

    Guess we need to just wait and see if any official statements are released.

    Why do you not find the plethora of official statements, including the two documented in this article and the ones linked to here, to be sufficient?

  54. avatar
    LW December 31, 2012 at 12:26 pm #

    Correction: it wasn’t her headline/article, it was “PP Simmons”‘s headline/article. But she gets full credit for the underlying crazy.

  55. avatar
    ObiWanCannoli December 31, 2012 at 12:48 pm #

    JPotter:
    I keep wondering how my former cat found her way into this article. Guinevere, is that you?

    The one at the bottom of the article has crossed eyes.

  56. avatar
    aarrgghh December 31, 2012 at 2:49 pm #

    Arthur: If I take your point correctly, you’re saying that to “gaslight” someone is use subterfuge to make the subject doubt his or her sanity?

    to “gaslight” a birfer, or any deranged person in general, would be to use facts and evidence to make them doubt their own insanity.

  57. avatar
    Wile December 31, 2012 at 3:31 pm #

    ObiWanCannoli: The one at the bottom of the article has crossed eyes.

    And his own Facebook page…
    https://www.facebook.com/spangles09

  58. avatar
    Tarrant December 31, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

    In butter’s world, if I ask you if A is the same as B, and you reply that yes, A equals B, then there must be a grand conspiracy and A must not be the same as B after all, because if it was you’d have used my words and not your words despite the meanings being identical.

    That’s really all this is. Kobach asked “Is the information on the posted BC identical to that in your files?” Onaka replied “Yes, all the fields and the information within matches exactly.” Kobach accepted that. Butternutter, however, looks at it and says “If he says it matches exactly, then it cannot be identical, therefore it doesn’t match at all, and therefore the statement ‘The information matches my record’ must instead be interpreted as a CERTIFICATION UNDER OATH that the record is fake.”

    Makes perfect sense in butter’s world, but not in any other.

  59. avatar
    scott e. December 31, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

    you let me back in so you could take shots at me… no, i appreciate it.

    look doc, i think we might all be friends if we gathered around something other than this issue. and i’m sorry i called you an asshole, you didn’t deserve that from me.

    i think we all are interested in this, is that a fair thing to say ? now we just have to figure out why.

    you work hard at this, and you are always on the google front page (obama birth certificate)

    even sometimes tense dialog is better than no dialog. happy new year and best wishes to you all.

    this is a great country because of people like all of us, who aren’t afraid to take chances, and put themselves out there to be examined, ridiculed or offended. and those who follow.

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn”.
    Benjamin Franklin
    Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benjamin_franklin.html#VKFmsW0jZ9QTu0W0.99

    thanks for doing this doc. all the best mate, scott e.

  60. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 31, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    Yes, I think she is too old. She is in an assisted living facility. In my view, Corsi got through to her, lifted a few bits from her conversation and then used her credentials to bolster a number of claims that she never supported.

    Since neither Zullo nor Corsi will release the telephone transcript, and specifically because claims were made that she endorsed the faked code book, I don’t put any stock in these claims. For all I know, Corsi could have asked her if she remembers signing Obama’s birth certificate, and she should have answered yes.

    My expectation is that the facility staff where she is now will be screening her calls; they didn’t let Zullo in when he tried to visit in person. And frankly, I wouldn’t want to bother a nice lady who didn’t chose to become a controversial figure.

    scott e.: has anyone spoken to onaka yet ? how come no one else spoke to verna k ? that would seem logical to me. is she too old ??

  61. avatar
    misha marinsky December 31, 2012 at 9:40 pm #

    scott e.: how come no one else spoke to verna k ?

    Dr. Conspiracy: Corsi got through to her, lifted a few bits from her conversation and then used her credentials to bolster a number of claims that she never supported.

    What Corsi did is elder abuse, and her children could have him prosecuted. Corsi is a vile character assassin.

  62. avatar
    JPotter December 31, 2012 at 10:17 pm #

    ObiWanCannoli: The one at the bottom of the article has crossed eyes.

    I meant the first cat. Guinevere was special … but not that special.

  63. avatar
    Rickey December 31, 2012 at 11:42 pm #

    scott e.: how come no one else spoke to verna k ? that would seem logical to me. is she too old ??

    Verna Lee is 95 years old. Why you believe that she would have any recollection about one of thousands of birth certificates which she signed 51 years ago is a question which only you can answer.

  64. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 1, 2013 at 12:58 am #

    scott e.: i guess that’s a birther flaw, being open minded, admitting imperfection. i see it’s nellie not hendershott. i’ve never spoken to either of them. maybe you could have them on your show.has anyone spoken to onaka yet ? how come no one else spoke to verna k ? that would seem logical to me. is she too old ??

    There’s no proof Arpiao even spoke to Verna Lee let alone Used Car Salesman Zullo. Them making up the story would explain why when Zullo tried to stalk her the cops were called. Why is it that it took over a year for birthers to be aware that Verna Lee was “Ukelele” when the “obots” figured it out long before. There’s no proof that anyone actually spoke to Verna Lee but why would you think a 95 year old would have perfect memory?

  65. avatar
    Thinker January 1, 2013 at 2:01 am #

    Verna Lee was first identified by birfers–the nutters at WTPOTUS–in July of 2011. Nobody claims to have contacted her until Corsi (allegedly) interviewed her a year or so later. My guess is that most people just assumed that she was dead.

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Why is it that it took over a year for birthers to be aware that Verna Lee was “Ukelele” when the “obots” figured it out long before.

  66. avatar
    MattR January 1, 2013 at 3:36 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: There’s no proof that anyone actually spoke to Verna Lee but why would you think a 95 year old would have perfect memory?

    Whether or not Verna Lee has perfect memory depends on whether or not her statements support the birther position.

  67. avatar
    Keith January 1, 2013 at 4:59 am #

    Rickey: Verna Lee is 95 years old. Why you believe that she would have any recollection about one of thousands of birth certificates which she signed 51 years ago is a question which only you can answer.

    A good friend of mine died last month. He was 97. He worked at Bletchley Park during WW2 on code breaking. He could remember everything quite clearly – including exactly what was still classified and what was declassified – right to the end.

    That does not mean that I am saying that Ms. Lee has the same mental acuity at this time – only that it is not unreasonable that she might.

    I’m with Doc on this. I imagine that she was probably a bit flattered by the attention when she was first contacted, and then after being burned by the birther brigade asked the staff to rebuff any future contact attempts.

  68. avatar
    Hawaiiborn January 1, 2013 at 5:48 am #

    my grandfather turns 98 in 3 days. He has the mental acuity of a goldfish. His dementia is so bad that he doesn’t recognize anyone that he doesn’t see on a daily basis. My last visit, he kept on asking me if I was my mother (that was nearly 1 1/yyears ago). Today, he doesn’t even remember if he had any kids, and barely remembers that he had a wife.

    I keep on thinking about my grandfather every time Verna Lee comes up, and to think that Corsi, or Zullo would talk to someone who is probably like my grandfather. I could make my grandfather say yes to anything at this point. It infuriates me that this happened to her.

  69. avatar
    The Magic M January 1, 2013 at 7:45 am #

    I suppose one of the reasons WND never published an actual interview with Verna Lee was that they didn’t ask her any specific questions (or if they did, they didn’t like the answers).

    All they could wrangle out of her was a response to the loaded question “some people (i.e. Obots) claim the pencil marks are wrong, is that possible” to which she replied “not on my watch”. (After all, this is *all* that ever was reported about the interview with specificity, if it ever happened at all.) But since nobody claims the pencil marks are wrong but that the CCCP used the wrong code book, that answer is meaningless.

    Don’t you think if WND reaped some propaganda points from talking to a demented old woman (and I’m in no way saying Ms Lee is one), they would’ve screamed about it in 72 point print on the front page? “HAWAII REGISTRAR FROM 1961 CONFIRMS OBAMA’S BC MUST BE FAKE”?
    Since they don’t, you can be sure that Ms Lee had no weak mind to exploit.

    Hawaiiborn: my grandfather turns 98 in 3 days. He has the mental acuity of a goldfish.

    My dad will turn 90 this year and is mentally among the top 1% in his age group. My maternal grandparents lived to see 97 and 95, respectively, and never showed any significant sign of mental decay. So I don’t think it’s fair to allude Verna Lee might suffer from dementia in the absence of any indication birthers might have abused her in any way.

  70. avatar
    G January 1, 2013 at 4:29 pm #

    Careful here. You just acknowledged that your dad is in the top 1% mentally for his age group…and then critique as unfair alluding to the possibility of dementia in a nonagenarian, even though loss of mental clarity is a fairly common symptom in advanced ageing.

    What is reasonable is to point out that suggestions of dementia and abuse are only mere speculation. Yet it is also reasonable to note that these are actually plausible speculations, with a rational basis to support those concerns being realistically possible.

    The fact remains that we have no actual evidence to the state of her current mental health; nor the explicit details of that conversation with Zullo.

    What we do know, at least from Zullo’s statements on the matter, is that he was not welcome back afterwards. Assuming that part of his tale has some ring of truth to it, then it is reasonable to conclude that the place where she resides decided that Zullo’s return visits constituted some form of unwelcome harassment. Potential or existing harassment can be viewed as a form of “abuse”, especially when applied to someone who is living in a non-fully independent state.

    But the bottom line here in regards to Verna is that we know she is of advanced age, that the incident in question happened many decades ago and that she herself has not demonstrated any self-made attempts to “push” this same line of pursuit as Zullo is attempting. So yeah, let’s all leave the poor old woman alone.

    The Magic M: My dad will turn 90 this year and is mentally among the top 1% in his age group. My maternal grandparents lived to see 97 and 95, respectively, and never showed any significant sign of mental decay. So I don’t think it’s fair to allude Verna Lee might suffer from dementia in the absence of any indication birthers might have abused her in any way.

  71. avatar
    DonnaLS January 5, 2013 at 8:01 pm #

    Hello from Arizona – re: the articles, that were going around that Onaka had sent ‘certain’ information to the SOS of Arizona – I emailed the SOS and here’s the reply that I received – - – - -From: SOS, Admin
    Date: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:52 AM
    To: Donna L – - – -
    Subject: RE: Web Contact Message – Contact Secretary Bennett
    Dear Ms. S- – - -:

    Contrary to the recent blog, we have NOT had any further correspondence from the state of Hawaii regarding this matter.

    Regards,

    Kim Crawford

    Communications Specialist

    Arizona Office of the Secretary of State

    Public Disclosure Notice: This message and any messages in response to the sender of this message may be subject to a public records request.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I believe it was May 22, 2012 that Hawaii sent ‘verification’ to SOS Bennett that Obama was born in Hawaii.

  72. avatar
    DonnaLS January 5, 2013 at 8:06 pm #

    - – I’ll try again – - I wrote to the SOS of Arizona in regards to the articles that were recently written about HI verifying (To Bennett) that Obama’s BC was ‘invalid’ – - response that I rec’d -
    From: SOS, Admin
    Date: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:52 AM
    To: Donna L. Subject:
    RE: Web Contact Message – Contact Secretary Bennett

    Dear Ms. S:

    Contrary to the recent blog, we have NOT had any further correspondence from the state of Hawaii regarding this matter.

    Regards,

    Kim Crawford

    Communications Specialist

    Arizona Office of the Secretary of State

    Public Disclosure Notice: This message and any messages in response to the sender of this message may be subject to a public records request.

  73. avatar
    Rickey January 6, 2013 at 12:05 am #

    DonnaLS:
    - – I’ll try again – – I wrote to the SOS of Arizona in regards to the articles that were recently written about HI verifying (To Bennett) that Obama’s BC was ‘invalid’ – – response that I rec’d -
    From:SOS, Admin
    Date:Monday, December 31, 2012 11:52 AM
    To:Donna L.Subject:
    RE: Web Contact Message – Contact Secretary Bennett

    Dear Ms. S:

    Contrary to the recent blog, we have NOT had any further correspondence from the state of Hawaii regarding this matter.

    Regards,

    Kim Crawford

    Communications Specialist

    Arizona Office of the Secretary of State

    Public Disclosure Notice:This message and any messages in response to the sender of this message may be subject to a public records request.

    You received that response because the story that Hawaii had admitted that Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery is the figment of a birther’s overheated imagination.

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