Main Menu

Here’s the birth certificate!

One of the dumbest questions asked by birthers is “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” Amid unfounded rumors that candidate Obama’s middle name was “Mohammed,” his campaign released his birth certificate in June of 2008. Perhaps you’ve seen it?

Obama Certification of Live Birth

Birthers have tried to deny this simple document ever since. First, they denied that the document even existed in paper form, and that it didn’t have the seal of the State of Hawaii. Staff from FactCheck.org actually took photos of the original paper document, but those were denied too.

The State of Hawaii, peppered with questions, spurious claims of sealed records and allegations of forgery, found it necessary to make an official statement supporting their document. By law birth records are private in Hawaii, but the Director of the Department of Health is authorized to release “index data” (basic fact of birth information) to the public from which, for example, newspapers get birth announcements, such as this one:

BirthAnnouncementClip

Here’s first of two official statements from the Department about Obama’s birth from Republican appointee Chiyome Fukino.

There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. “No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.

Effort shifted from denying the birth certificate to finding secret messages in the preceding statement. The State of Hawaii decided to say it again, more emphatically, and created an Obama FAQ web page. The birthers literally went wild when they saw those words “natural-born American citizen.”

I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‘i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.

In addition, index data for Hawaii births is available for public inspection at the State Health Department office in Honolulu. The following photo is from the Associated Press and reported by USA Today:

1961 Hawaii birth index

Then the Internet tabloid WorldNetDaily came up with a brilliant advertising scheme; they got their own readers to pay for billboards that said “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” and advertised WorldNetDaily’s web site (WND.COM). Of course everybody already knew where the birth certificate was, in a bound volume at the Hawaii State Department of Health, but that didn’t seem to matter. (I reported on one of the first of these billboards in Ball, Louisiana in May of 2009.)

Where's the Birth Certificate? WND.COM BIllboard

And with this, a new phase of asking an already-answered question began, with signs, bumper stickers and a book of the same title by Jerome Corsi.

Probably if not for the national media attention given to Donald Trump, this is where the story would have ended; however, Trump got so much airtime asking open-ended questions and making ludicrous accusations, that the Obama campaign once again felt compelled to obtain the 1961 birth registration called the Certificate of Live Birth, and to put it on the White House web site after an April 2011 press conference, where Obama called the birthers “carnival barkers” (with much offense taken by legitimate carnival barkers).  So here is the Birth Certificate (AGAIN!) proving that Obama was born in a Honolulu hospital, attended by a physician, and not in Africa with a birth certificate somehow derived from a report from his grandmother of a home birth.

Obama original Certificate of Live Birth

Of course the birthers went back to their 2009 playbook, denying that this document exists in paper form, despite a photograph of it taken by NBC News White House correspondent Savannah Guthrie.

Guthrie Photo of Obama original Certificate of Live Birth

Birthers, who are programmatic deniers of anything from Barack Obama, continued to shout forgery and raise bogus objections to the document, creating so much furor that Secretaries of State in two states made an end run around the White House and contacted the Hawaii Department of Health directly to get verification of the documents. First Ken Bennett in Arizona:

Verification of Birth for Arizona

Then Kris Kobach in Kansas. This one that actually references the White House document:

Verification of Birth for Kansas

And a verification even showed up in federal lawsuit in Mississippi and here the Department of Health made darned sure that the State Seal was visible (I can imagine the effort that went into applying it).

Verification of Birth Mississippi federal court

So if anybody asks “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” you can tell them where to go.

, , , , , ,

296 Responses to Here’s the birth certificate!

  1. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG January 1, 2013 at 9:34 am #

    Birther mindset: “If you deny the truth hard enough, people will think it is a lie.”

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 1, 2013 at 9:41 am #

    With some people, it works.

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Birther mindset: “If you deny the truth hard enough, people will think it is a lie.”

  3. avatar
    donna January 1, 2013 at 9:43 am #

    and may i add that ONLY the COLB “serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding” HRS 338-13(b), 338-19

    338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

    (b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

    (c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, 17; RL 1955, 57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, 19; HRS 338-13; am L 1978, c 49, 1]

    338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, 23; RL 1955, 57-22; am L 1957, c 8, 1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, 19; HRS 338-19]

  4. avatar
    American Mzungu January 1, 2013 at 9:55 am #

    Great start in the New Year, Doc. It’s always helpful to refresh our memory of the basic documents that birthers like to ignore or distort.

  5. avatar
    Bob January 1, 2013 at 10:38 am #

    I still don’t understand what’s so difficult about admitting that Obama is eligible to be president. It doesn’t mean you agree with him politically or want him to be president. I understand the “smear factor” involved but it was never even a good smear and made adherents look ridiculous.

  6. avatar
    aarrgghh January 1, 2013 at 11:20 am #

    Bob: I still don’t understand what’s so difficult about admitting that Obama is eligible to be president.It doesn’t mean you agree with him politically or want him to be president.I understand the “smear factor” involved but it was never even a good smear and made adherents look ridiculous.

    what’s so difficult about admitting that obama is eligible is having protested for four years that he’s not.

  7. avatar
    poutine January 1, 2013 at 1:06 pm #

    The legacy of birthers will go down in history as being racist at its core. No white president ever faced such a steady drumbeat of doubt as to whether he was even American, especially in the face of such mundane and uninteresting facts proving his American birth. That Obama ever had to so much as acknowledge these carnival barkers is a shameful stain on our nation’s reaction to having our first black president.

  8. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG January 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

    Well, when this is all over. I thought up a perfect career move for birthers, who suddenly find themselves with nothing to do!

    Got a brand new football field, but want to keep your old goal posts? No sweat! Birthers have had four years of experience in moving them. Whether you just need one set moved from point A to point B, or have several to move all over creation, they’ve got you covered!

  9. avatar
    donna January 1, 2013 at 1:19 pm #

    poutine”

    let’s SEE how vehemently they oppose “brown” people like rubio, jindal, etc

    in birtherstan, they are ineligible

  10. avatar
    Joey January 1, 2013 at 1:20 pm #

    I’ve been debating with a birther on another blog who believes that any birth certificate can have erroneous information on it and therefore all the Seals, stamps, letters of verification and state of Hawai’i press releases in the world can’t authenticate “misinformation.” He maintains that 51 years later, the state of Hawai’i can’t vouch for the accuracy of the original birth data.
    This birther even quotes from a federal government Department of Health and Human Services Office of the Inspector General report on birth certificate fraud to bolster his arguments.

  11. avatar
    Hawaiiborn January 1, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

    Joey:

    This birther even quotes from a federal government Department of Health and Human Services Office of the Inspector General report on birth certificate fraud to bolster his arguments.

    same with a birther on Amazon forums.

    Just simply ask him, where;s the birth certificate fraud specifically for Honolulu.

  12. avatar
    donna January 1, 2013 at 1:39 pm #

    Joey:

    if you look at the POS mitt released:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/29/us-usa-campaign-romney-birth-certificate-idUSBRE84S1GF20120529

    a COLB which trump said couldn’t be used to obtain a driver’s license & passport

    NO seal

    cut off at the bottom

    no title for person who certified it

    no hospital

    no doctor

    in 1947, his mother’s age was listed as “36” but her DOB is 1908

  13. avatar
    diskiss January 1, 2013 at 2:18 pm #

    Doc, as usual your documentation and presentation is bullseye. But I think you know that you’re preaching to the choir. The Birthers who could have been persuaded by this kind of evidence slinked (slank?) away from the movement after the release of long form in April 2011. The remaining true believers are suffering from hobbled logic and chronic confirmation bias. Many Birthers have been socialized with an irrational fear of The Other. To these folks, Barack Obama’s eligibility has nothing to do with the facts that you so ably present – for them, Obama’s “ineligibility” is now a matter of Faith. Faith responds not to documentation nor to legal precedent nor to constitutional law. Faith responds to epiphany only, and this we cannot provide.

  14. avatar
    MattR January 1, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

    Joey:
    I’ve been debating with a birther on another blog who believes that any birth certificate can have erroneous information on it and therefore all the Seals, stamps, letters of verification and state of Hawai’i press releases in the world can’t authenticate “misinformation.” He maintains that 51 years later, the state of Hawai’i can’t vouch for the accuracy of the original birth data.
    This birther even quotes from a federal government Department of Health and Human Services Office of the Inspector General report on birth certificate fraud to bolster his arguments.

    David Farrar by chance? He is a big proponent of the idea that even if the info on the BC matches what Hawaii has in its records, all that proves is that the state of Hawaii thinks he was born on that date. It doesn’t actually prove the information was accurate. The followup question he never answers is why a cop should accept his driver’s license as ID when he gets pulled over. After all it does not prove that he is David Farrar, only that the state that issued the license believes that he is David Farrar.

    Does your birther believe this is a problem specific to the state of Hawaii or with all birth certificates from that era? If the latter, how does he expect any person born during that time period to prove the details of his birth? Or is everyone born during that time frame ineligible for president? (In my experience the birthers who have pushed the unreliability of BC’s are so concerned with “getting” Obama that they never actually think through the full consequences of that claim)

  15. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 1, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    Joey:
    I’ve been debating with a birther on another blog who believes that any birth certificate can have erroneous information on it and therefore all the Seals, stamps, letters of verification and state of Hawai’i press releases in the world can’t authenticate “misinformation.” He maintains that 51 years later, the state of Hawai’i can’t vouch for the accuracy of the original birth data.
    This birther even quotes from a federal government Department of Health and Human Services Office of the Inspector General report on birth certificate fraud to bolster his arguments.

    That’s our buddy trolljack or trader jack as he was known here. The ig report never makes claims that Hawaii was involved in any fraud it also doesn’t mention fraud by the states department of health

  16. avatar
    LW January 1, 2013 at 2:39 pm #

    I note with intense interest that the AP photo of the index data page clearly shows that the name highlighted is OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN OBANION. This cannot be an accident. Orly, please include this name in all future emissions.

  17. avatar
    bgansel9 January 1, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

    donna: in 1947, his mother’s age was listed as “36″ but her DOB is 1908

    That’s because he was really born in France to the evil Illuminati Merovingian Rene Sinclair and a mistress, and could never qualify to be the first Mormon President unless he was whisked away to America and taken in by the Romneys.

    Just kidding, of course! :P

  18. avatar
    americantaxpayer January 1, 2013 at 2:50 pm #

    If I have read the document correctly, it says the father was born in kenya. Whats a natural-born citizen again?

  19. avatar
    MattR January 1, 2013 at 2:55 pm #

    americantaxpayer:
    If I have read the document correctly, it says the father was born in kenya. Whats a natural-born citizen again?

    A natural born citizen is a person who becomes a citizen at birth, rather than through naturalization. This includes, but is not limited to, anyone born on United States soil while subject to its jurisdiction (ie. not the child of a foreign diplomat or a soldier in an invading army) regardless of the citizenship of their parents. Any questions?

  20. avatar
    Paper January 1, 2013 at 2:58 pm #

    When you are born in America, it doesn’t matter who your parents are (with very few exceptions).

    Anything else we can help you learn today?

    americantaxpayer:
    If I have read the document correctly, it says the father was born in kenya. Whats a natural-born citizen again?

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 1, 2013 at 3:04 pm #

    Fraud is virtually unheard of in hospital births. Most vital records fraud is somebody using a real birth certificate that isn’t theirs.

    Joey: This birther even quotes from a federal government Department of Health and Human Services Office of the Inspector General report on birth certificate fraud to bolster his arguments

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 1, 2013 at 3:06 pm #

    Even the choir needs handy references when refuting birther nonsense. But birthers sometimes read this site too.

    diskiss: But I think you know that you’re preaching to the choir.

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 1, 2013 at 3:11 pm #

    Most constitutional authorities say that it is anyone who was a US Citizen from birth. A minority would add a requirement for birth with the US or its territories.

    I get from your question that you don’t agree with that, but that’s where the scholarship is at this time.

    americantaxpayer: Whats a natural-born citizen again?

  24. avatar
    poutine January 1, 2013 at 3:13 pm #

    Yep, the choir is grateful. I’m a long time birther expert like many of your readers, and I saved and clipped this post for its concise and fully updated narrative that I can use as needed.

  25. avatar
    LW January 1, 2013 at 3:19 pm #

    diskiss: But I think you know that you’re preaching to the choir.

    I always figured that articles like this were aimed at the “birther curious” (as well as being a handy compendium for those of us on the front lines, of course).

  26. avatar
    LW January 1, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

    bgansel9: That’s because he was really born in France to the evil Illuminati Merovingian Rene Sinclair and a mistress, and could never qualify to be the first Mormon President unless he was whisked away to America and taken in by the Romneys.

    That sounds totally plausible, so I’m going to stop reading right there! Please copy and post everywhere!

  27. avatar
    Sef January 1, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

    americantaxpayer:
    If I have read the document correctly, it says the father was born in kenya. Whats a natural-born citizen again?

    If you are not already aware you might wish to peruse this CRS report: [ http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42097.pdf ]

  28. avatar
    Joey January 1, 2013 at 3:27 pm #

    americantaxpayer:
    If I have read the document correctly, it says the father was born in kenya. Whats a natural-born citizen again?

    Specifically with regard to the natural born citizenship of Barack Hussein Obama, II, back in 2009, the Indiana Court of Appeals ruled that Barack Obama was indeed eligible to receive Indiana’s Electoral votes as a natural born citizen. The lawsuit was Ankeny v Daniels and the REPUBLICAN Governor of Indiana, Mitch Daniels defended Barack Obama’s eligibility. The Court ruled: “…we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born citizens” for Article 2, Section 1 purposes, REGARDLESS OF THE CITIZENSHIP OF THEIR PARENTS.”

  29. avatar
    GLaB January 1, 2013 at 3:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Most constitutional authorities say that it is anyone who was a US Citizen from birth. A minority would add a requirement for birth with the US or its territories.I get from your question that you don’t agree with that, but that’s where the scholarship is at this time.

    Add another authority from that Romney’s BC article cited above by donna:

    “George Romney himself was unequivocal.

    “”I am a natural born citizen. My parents were American citizens. I was a citizen at
    birth,”” he said, according to a typewritten statement found in his archives.”

  30. avatar
    LW January 1, 2013 at 3:33 pm #

    americantaxpayer:
    If I have read the document correctly, it says the father was born in kenya. Whats a natural-born citizen again?

    You also might want to check out the results of the 2012 election, where over 51% of the voting public said–and I’m admittedly paraphrasing a bit: “Birthers, including Vattelists, are raving nutters.”

    This is not to preclude much of the other 47% from holding the same opinion, mind you.

  31. avatar
    Northland10 January 1, 2013 at 3:33 pm #

    poutine:
    Yep, the choir is grateful. I’m a long time birther expert like many of your readers, and I saved and clipped this post for its concise and fully updated narrative that I can use as needed.

    I’m always preaching to the choir, though I am not sure my choir is as fulfilled by the experience.

  32. avatar
    Scientist January 1, 2013 at 3:43 pm #

    LW: You also might want to check out the results of the 2012 election, where over 51% of the voting public said–and I’m admittedly paraphrasing a bit: “Birthers, including Vattelists, are raving nutters.”This is not to preclude much of the other 47% from holding the same opinion, mind you.

    I have believed from the start that the question of who is eligible to be President is one on which the voters are the final authority. If they elect you President, then you ARE a natural born citizen, even if you were born in Kazakhstan to a French mother and a Chinese father. vox populi, vox dei.

  33. avatar
    Joey January 1, 2013 at 3:45 pm #

    MattR: David Farrar by chance?He is a big proponent of the idea that even if the info on the BC matches what Hawaii has in its records, all that proves is that the state of Hawaii thinks he was born on that date.It doesn’t actually prove the information was accurate.The followup question he never answers is why a cop should accept his driver’s license as ID when he gets pulled over.After all it does not prove that he is David Farrar, only that the state that issued the license believes that he is David Farrar.

    Does your birther believe this is a problem specific to the state of Hawaii or with all birth certificates from that era? If the latter, how does he expect any person born during that time period to prove the details of his birth?Or is everyone born during that time frame ineligible for president?(In my experience the birthers who have pushed the unreliability of BC’s are so concerned with “getting” Obama that they never actually think through the full consequences of that claim)

    This birther believes that because birth certificate CAN occur in any state, that means that it DID occur in Hawaii. Birthers have long used the Sun YatSen, Territory of Hawaii story.

  34. avatar
    Joey January 1, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: That’s our buddy trolljack or trader jack as he was known here.The ig report never makes claims that Hawaii was involved in any fraud it also doesn’t mention fraud by the states department of health

    Yep, that’s the Senior Citizen!

  35. avatar
    Sef January 1, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

    Joey: This birther believes that because birth certificate CAN occur in any state, that means that it DID occur in Hawaii. Birthers have long used the Sun Yates Sen, Territory of Hawaii story.

    Which is why the Territory of Hawaii took extra care to design their systems to eliminate these fraud possibilities before becoming a state.

  36. avatar
    GLaB January 1, 2013 at 3:53 pm #

    Scientist: I have believed from the start that the question of who is eligible to be President is one on which the voters are the final authority. If they elect you President, then you ARE a natural born citizen, even if you were born in Kazakhstan to a French mother and a Chinese father. vox populi, vox dei.

    I’m afraid I disagree. The Constitution was written by a handful of landed gentry who believed they were privileged to be “vox dei” and intentionally put chains on “vox populi.”

    If someone truly not a natural born citizen were to run and gather major support, I think we could count on a constitutional crisis.

  37. avatar
    Joey January 1, 2013 at 3:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Fraud is virtually unheard of in hospital births. Most vital records fraud is somebody using a real birth certificate that isn’t theirs.

    You’re not “thinking” like a birther, Doc!

  38. avatar
    Joey January 1, 2013 at 3:58 pm #

    Sef: Which is why the Territory of Hawaii took extra care to design their systems to eliminate these fraud possibilities before becoming a state.

    Do you think any birther worth his or her salt is going to buy that? Hawaii is the bluest of states, that means its automatically corrupt, or how else could it have produced a communist Muslim like Barry Soebarkah Soetoro! :-)

  39. avatar
    Scientist January 1, 2013 at 3:59 pm #

    What difference does it make at this point what some birther believes or claims to believe? Prior to the election, one could perhaps argue that they could possibly influence some low information voter against Obama (I would say that in reality the birthers probably drove turnout of pro-Obama voters if they had any impact at all). But, as of Nov 6, birthers, at least those concerned with birth certificates, became completely irrelevant. I suppose the Vattellists could possibly try to obstruct the 2016 nomination, but since the candidates affected are all Tea Party nuts like Jindal, Rubio and Cruz, while the leading Dems, like Hillary and Biden, are unaffected, I say go for it guys.

  40. avatar
    Joey January 1, 2013 at 4:02 pm #

    donna:
    Joey:

    if you look at the POS mitt released:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/29/us-usa-campaign-romney-birth-certificate-idUSBRE84S1GF20120529

    a COLB which trump said couldn’t be used to obtain a driver’s license & passport

    NO seal

    cut off at the bottom

    no title for person who certified it

    no hospital

    no doctor

    in 1947, his mother’s age was listed as “36″ but her DOB is 1908

    You forgot my favorite part of Mitt’s COLB: the word “VOID” on both the left and right edges!

  41. avatar
    LW January 1, 2013 at 4:05 pm #

    Joey: …a communist Muslim like Barry Soebarkah Soetoro Obanion

    FIFY

  42. avatar
    Sef January 1, 2013 at 4:08 pm #

    Joey: Do you think any birther worth his or her salt is going to buy that? Hawaii is the bluest of states, that means its automatically corrupt, or how else could it have produced a communist Muslim like Barry Soebarkah Soetoro!

    I don’t expect birthers to “buy” anything. I have long since given up hope of any rationality. That doesn’t prevent me from trying, though. I just try to put the truth out there. Whether “those people” accept it is another question.

  43. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 1, 2013 at 4:15 pm #

    Thank you!

    Joey: You’re not “thinking” like a birther, Doc!

  44. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 1, 2013 at 4:17 pm #

    americantaxpayer

    Let’s see what a Supreme Court Justice said about it on a case that actually had to do with citizenship, rather than voting rights…

    “All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England. . . . We find no warrant for the opinion that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States. It has always obtained here with the same vigor, and subject only to the same exceptions, since as before the Revolution.”

    United States v. Rhodes, as quoted in United States v. Wong Kim Ark. Those two cases were actually about citizenship, both written by then sitting U.S. Supreme Court Justices.

  45. avatar
    Scientist January 1, 2013 at 4:25 pm #

    GLaB: I’m afraid I disagree. The Constitution was written by a handful of landed gentry who believed they were privileged to be “vox dei” and intentionally put chains on “vox populi.”

    And that, my friend, was a grievous flaw, which has hurt the country down to this day. Take slavery (please), which the landed gentry of the South got rich on. What do you think would have been the result of a national up or down vote on slavery in 1830 or 1840? It would have been massively rejected by the bulk of the population in the North. It might well have lost even in many southern states, where only small minorities owned slaves. Remember, the Briitish Empire abolished slavery decades previously by a simple majority vote in Parliament, despite the opposition of the planters in Jamaica and some of the other islands. Segregation in 1950 would also have lost a national referendum and abolishing it wouldn’t have necessitated the wrenching strugges that it did because minorities were able to stymie progress.

    Today, the nation is held hostage by gerrymandered minorities in Congress. Less egregious than slavery, but still evil. The great thing about the popular will is that it can change. It can correct errors. It can reject same-sex marriage in one election and approve it at the next. But, codify the errors in a Constitution o rcourt rulings and they become entrenched. So, I would sooner trust in the people than in any ossified elite.

  46. avatar
    Sef January 1, 2013 at 4:42 pm #

    Joey: You forgot my favorite part of Mitt’s COLB: the word “VOID” on both the left and right edges!

    And I have always wondered why the BCs from HI do not use security paper which have this feature. A lot of the birther hokum could have been avoided if it were obvious that the only meaningful document was the original.

  47. avatar
    Hermitian January 1, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

    Barack Obama has never produced a certified paper copy of his original birth certificate to any court or election official. Instead he has saddled the taxpayers with millions in legal fees and lost taxes to pay for attorneys to fight against releasing even one certified paper copy.

    He has done so in spite of having stipulated to a Federal District Court that he had requested and received two certified copies of his original paper birth certificate from Loretta Fuddy, the Hawaii State Health Director, on Apr. 25, 2011. The cost of these two certified copies was $14.00.

    In spite of the negligible cost for these two copies, Obama has never released either of these certified copies to the public or produced one in a court of competent jurisdiction.

    After the passage of the 911 laws in 2004, any citizen who presents a birth certificate to any federal agency must present a certified copy. The certified copy must bear the seal impression of the issuing state and the state registrar’s signature.

    Also, INS regulations now require that any citizen who provides a birth certificate to apply for a passport must provide a certified copy.

    We are a country of laws and not men.

    Why does Obama think he should get a pass?

  48. avatar
    G January 1, 2013 at 5:08 pm #

    AGREED! Well said.

    Bob:
    I still don’t understand what’s so difficult about admitting that Obama is eligible to be president. It doesn’t mean you agree with him politically or want him to be president.I understand the “smear factor” involved but it was never even a good smear and made adherents look ridiculous.

  49. avatar
    G January 1, 2013 at 5:19 pm #

    Well put. I agree.

    Most of us have learned that hard lesson over these past four years. Yes, this site exists to debunk and inform.

    However, we also understand that the hard core faith-based reality deniers will not listen to reason and will bitterly cling to their delusions, regardless.

    That doesn’t take away at all from the value and import of this site in monitoring, reporting and commenting upon the cult phenomenon of ODS crazy that is out there.

    It matters not that the brainwashed Birthers cling to their hate-based delusions. Reality goes on despite their protestations and there is nothing “sane” that they can do to stop that. Their misery and willful ignorance is their own damn fault at this point and they have no one but themselves to blame for their own failures and becoming a source of endless mockery and cheap entertainment.

    diskiss:
    Doc, as usual your documentation and presentation is bullseye. But I think you know that you’re preaching to the choir. The Birthers who could have been persuaded by this kind of evidence slinked (slank?) away from the movement after the release of long form in April 2011. The remaining true believers are suffering from hobbled logic and chronic confirmation bias. Many Birthers have been socialized with an irrational fear of The Other. To these folks, Barack Obama’s eligibility has nothing to do with the facts that you so ably present – for them, Obama’s “ineligibility” is now a matter of Faith.Faith responds not to documentation nor to legal precedent nor to constitutional law. Faith responds to epiphany only, and this we cannot provide.

  50. avatar
    G January 1, 2013 at 5:27 pm #

    Doc, might I suggest that this particularly excellent compilation article get its own high-profile entry under the “Features” section of the website menu?

    That way, it can easily be always found again and referenced at a moments notice…

    Thanks.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Even the choir needs handy references when refuting birther nonsense. But birthers sometimes read this site too.

  51. avatar
    Yoda January 1, 2013 at 5:49 pm #

    Joey:
    I’ve been debating with a birther on another blog who believes that any birth certificate can have erroneous information on it and therefore all the Seals, stamps, letters of verification and state of Hawai’i press releases in the world can’t authenticate “misinformation.” He maintains that 51 years later, the state of Hawai’i can’t vouch for the accuracy of the original birth data.
    This birther even quotes from a federal government Department of Health and Human Services Office of the Inspector General report on birth certificate fraud to bolster his arguments.

    Technically, this is correct. Birth certificates, to a large extent are based on information provided by the parents and often the information on the BC cannot be independently verified because of the death or lack of memory of people providing information. And no head of any health department can attest to the validity of the information in any BC based on lack of personal knowledge and hearsay. The most that any department can swear is that the information is on file and that something is a genuine copy of a BC.
    However, as we all know, once the head of DOH does certify the information, this is entitled to full faith and credit.

    Further, despite the fact that the information on a BC cannot be independently verified. or perhaps because of it, Courts have generally accepted a BC as an exception to the hearsay rule as prima facie evidence of the information contained therein. We all know that any other rule would lead to a breakdown of the entire system, as per the example of the driver’s license.

  52. avatar
    bgansel9 January 1, 2013 at 6:01 pm #

    LW: That sounds totally plausible, so I’m going to stop reading right there! Please copy and post everywhere!

    How long do you think before the other birther sites pick this up and run with it after being pissed at the Rich Loser.

  53. avatar
    Hermitian January 1, 2013 at 6:18 pm #

    English Common Law was imposed on the Colonies by King George III. Thus the law of the land after the Colonies declared their independence from the Crown in 1776 was the English Common Law. After the Revolutionary War King George deeded the land to the citizens of the Colonies who were living on the land. Each citizen became a sovereign land owner.

    The lie that the Obots continue to spread is that the English Common Law was adopted as the prevailing U.S. National Law after ratification of the U.S. Constitution. That was never the case.

  54. avatar
    Hermitian January 1, 2013 at 6:31 pm #

    Mr. C. could do the Nation a service if he would ask Obama to allow him to post a photographic image of both certified paper copies on his blog site. I challenge him to do so. Additionally, I challenge him to post front and back photographs of both certified copies. These photocopies should be produced on a macrocopy stand by a professional photographer.

  55. avatar
    Megastar January 1, 2013 at 6:34 pm #

    Sorry to say that opposition to the blog owner who pedantically speaks and lures through deceptions many of the “useful idiots” that live in America into a false belief of eligibility for a POTUS. Putin of Russia said that the current Potus was elected by America’s illiterates that do not permit any fact analysis to occur in a Socratic method used by Socrates to bring the truths of any issues from his students.

    View the facts about the “illegal”, who trashed law and order, as they exist throughout the world, in Kenya, in Saudi Arabia, and with the Communist and or Socialist ‘trash’ existing in America.

    Political parties appear to be totally devoid of what America’s “republic” is supposed to be, and having someone in the White House that has too many blemishes on his record is a “dire” threat to the American way… which is as a “republic” that defies the ineptness of any other form of government.

    The first governor of the American colonies and De Tocqueville made it abundantly clear a hundred or more years ago that…America has shunned America’s enemies by providing the written law to allow American citizens to preserve and defend their “REPUBLICAN” form of governance. True Americans are duty bound to weed out the fraud in the White House. Therefore, this person agrees with all who decry this blog’s corrupt practices of presenting ‘fraudulent’ documents as proofs to be “Potus”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxB0FlYayGA

  56. avatar
    Arthur January 1, 2013 at 6:47 pm #

    Megastar,

    Maybe it’s just me, but your style seems intentionally idiotic . . . more like a parody than the real thing. ‘Course, if you are legitimate, you have my sympathies.

  57. avatar
    Scientist January 1, 2013 at 6:47 pm #

    Megastar: Putin of Russia said that the current Potus was elected by America’s illiterates

    He was elected by Russian illiterates, was he not? Bu if you consider him your hero, good luck to you.

    Megastar: The first governor of the American colonies and De Tocqueville made it abundantly clear a hundred or more years ago that…America has shunned America’s enemies by providing the written law to allow American citizens to preserve and defend their “REPUBLICAN” form of governance

    Who was “the first governor of the American colonies” and why should anyone care what he thought? As the representative of the King, what would he have known about Republican government?

    Really, you don’t make much sense…

  58. avatar
    brygenon January 1, 2013 at 6:49 pm #

    Scientist: I have believed from the start that the question of who is eligible to be President is one on which the voters are the final authority. If they elect you President, then you ARE a natural born citizen, even if you were born in Kazakhstan to a French mother and a Chinese father.

    Cases we’ve followed provide evidence to the contrary. The dominant opinion of courts that wrote on the question is that Congress has the final authority, even while some courts voiced respect for the voters’ efforts in vetting the issue.

    Furthermore, election is not the only path. When Madeleine Albright was Secretary of State under President Clinton, the published order of succession skipped her because she is not a natural-born citizen. Same with Henry Kissinger.

  59. avatar
    Scientist January 1, 2013 at 7:02 pm #

    brygenon: The dominant opinion of courts that wrote on the question is that Congress has the final authority, even while some courts voiced respect for the voters’ efforts in vetting the issue.

    The courts ought to stick to narrowly deciding actual cases, not mixing in to questions that belong rightfully to the people. As for Congress, seriously, have you been following what’s been going on there? To call it a madhouse would be a gross insult to the insane. No, all those clowns should do is count the votes and certify them as they stand. On a good day they could possibly avoid mucking that up. Maybe.

  60. avatar
    RoadScholar January 1, 2013 at 7:04 pm #

    “He just CAN’T be President! I mean, he’s not… He COULDN’T have won! It can’t be! With that name, and… I mean… LOOK at him! Something must be wrong! He’s gotta be ineligible, or a fake, or stole the election, or SOMETHING! We’re the majority, dammit! No way he won fair and square! It JUST CAN’T BE!” –Joe and Josephine Birfer.

  61. avatar
    JPotter January 1, 2013 at 7:20 pm #

    “So if anybody asks ‘Where’s the Birth Certificate?’ you can tell them where to go.”

    Straight to Hell. Check!

  62. avatar
    JPotter January 1, 2013 at 7:26 pm #

    Joey: He maintains that 51 years later, the state of Hawai’i can’t vouch for the accuracy of the original birth data.

    Hawaiiborn: same with a birther on Amazon forums.

    Yeah, good old Trolljack and his existential nihilism. According to such ‘logic’, nothing can ever be known. That must be exhausting ;). Maybe he’s really that crazy, maybe he’s just another birfer on a Say Anything campaign. He certainly meshed well with Hermitian.

  63. avatar
    JPotter January 1, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

    LW: This is not to preclude much of the other 47% from holding the same opinion, mind you.

    One of the greatest hilarities of American political history … a candidate verbally writes off 47% of the electorate, gets busted for it, and ultimately receives 47%* of the vote!
    __________

    * That is, if the decimal is dropped.

  64. avatar
    Keith January 1, 2013 at 7:35 pm #

    Joey:
    I’ve been debating with a birther on another blog who believes that any birth certificate can have erroneous information on it and therefore all the Seals, stamps, letters of verification and state of Hawai’i press releases in the world can’t authenticate “misinformation.” He maintains that 51 years later, the state of Hawai’i can’t vouch for the accuracy of the original birth data.
    This birther even quotes from a federal government Department of Health and Human Services Office of the Inspector General report on birth certificate fraud to bolster his arguments.

    My response to this guy, or another with views so close that it makes no difference (no one alive was there, so no one can tell for sure), was to point out that in fact the parents are telling me directly, with zero degrees of separation, about the facts of the birth event. The State is merely the custodian of that message.

    In other words, it isn’t the State of Hawai’i that is saying that the the event took place as recorded on the Birth Certificate, it is Stanley and her Doctor that are saying it. The State is only the legal custodian of that direct eye-witness affirmation.

  65. avatar
    JPotter January 1, 2013 at 7:47 pm #

    Megastar: Putin of Russia

    Glad you have such a high regard for the opinions of Putin. Just how much influence has he on your political thought? Do you suppose he might have an incentive for undermining the American President?

    Megastar: The first governor of the American colonies

    Please provide a list of persons holding this title.

    _______________

    The icons randomly (? hmmm) assigned here are a source of constant amusement. :D

  66. avatar
    JPotter January 1, 2013 at 7:50 pm #

    Keith: The State is only the legal custodian of that direct eye-witness affirmation.

    Only to a point. All states have rules governing the filing and issuance of certificates.

  67. avatar
    SluggoJD January 1, 2013 at 8:29 pm #

    Megastar:
    Sorry to say that opposition to the blog owner who pedantically speaks and lures through deceptions many of the “useful idiots” that live in America into a false belief of eligibility for a POTUS.Putin of Russia said that the current Potus was elected by America’s illiterates that do not permit any fact analysis to occur in a Socratic method used by Socrates to bring the truths of any issues from his students.

    View the facts about the “illegal”, who trashed law and order, as they exist throughout the world, in Kenya, in Saudi Arabia, and with the Communist and or Socialist ‘trash’ existing in America.

    Political parties appear to be totally devoid of what America’s “republic” is supposed to be, and having someone in the White House that has too many blemishes on his record is a “dire” threat to the American way… which is as a “republic” that defies the ineptness of any other form of government.

    The first governor of the American colonies and De Tocqueville made it abundantly clear a hundred or more years ago that…America has shunned America’s enemies by providing the written law to allow American citizens to preserve and defend their “REPUBLICAN” form of governance.True Americans are duty bound to weed out the fraud in the White House. Therefore, this person agrees with all who decry this blog’s corrupt practices of presenting ‘fraudulent’ documents as proofs to be “Potus”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxB0FlYayGA

    I LMAO when a person with an IQ of a turnip tries to sound like an intellectual.

  68. avatar
    G January 1, 2013 at 8:34 pm #

    Agreed.

    SluggoJD: I LMAO when a person with an IQ of a turnip tries to sound like an intellectual.

  69. avatar
    Hermitian January 1, 2013 at 9:37 pm #

    The last sentence in SOS Bennett’s request for verification was:

    “Additionally, please verify that the attached copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Mr. Obama is a true and accurate representation of the original record in your files.”

    Onaka was unable to verify this as fact. Instead he responded as follows:

    “Additionally, i verify that the information in the copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for
    Mr. Obama that you attached with your request matches the original record in our files.”

    Hence we know that neither of the two LFCOLB PDF images that Obama has produced to the same Federal District Court is a photocopy or duplicate image of his original birth certificate.

    Additionally we know by comparing them that these two LFCOLB PDF images are not duplicate copies of each other.

    Mr. Onaka also did not separately verify any of the purported facts contained in the HDOH request form that Bennett had filled out and signed. He was required to do so under Hawaii law as these were also facts that Bennett had requested to be verified.

    Thus Onaka did not specifically verify the following purported facts contained in the request form

    Date of Birth: August 4, 1961

    Place of Birth: Honolulu Oahu

    Father’s Name: Barack Hussein Obama

    Mother’s Name: Stanley Ann Dunham

    These facts were omitted in the facts list contained in Bennett’s letter. Onaka verified the 10 facts contained in Bennett’s facts list and added Barack Hussein Obama as the Name of Person.

    Neither the SOS Kobach of Kansas (nor Obama’s MDEC attorneys) filled out, signed, and attached the HDOH request form to their letter requesting verification.

    Nether requested that Onaka verify that the WH LFCOLB is a true and accurate representation of the original certificate.

    Bennett was the only one who made that request.

    Bennett is also the only requester who had to wait over seven weeks while the HDOH and the Hawaii AG dithered before Onaka finally provided him a verification letter.

  70. avatar
    Rickey January 1, 2013 at 9:38 pm #

    Megastar:

    The first governor of the American colonies and De Tocqueville made it abundantly clear a hundred or more years ago that…America has shunned America’s enemies by providing the written law to allow American citizens to preserve and defend their “REPUBLICAN” form of governance.

    A hundred years ago was 1912. De Tocqueville’s “Democracy in America” was published in 1835, 177 years ago.

    I didn’t know that there was a governor of the American colonies. What was his name?

  71. avatar
    aarrgghh January 1, 2013 at 9:57 pm #

    JPotter: Yeah, good old Trolljack and his existential nihilism. According to such ‘logic’, nothing can ever be known. That must be exhausting . Maybe he’s really that crazy, maybe he’s just another birfer on a Say Anything campaign. He certainly meshed well with Hermitian.

    at the end of my 2001 post “waiting for OMGodot” i liken birfers in their existential “crisis” to the astronaut in ray bradbury’s “no particular night or morning” who loses his confidence in evidence or memory, his sense of object permanence, his belief in his own existence and, ultimately, his life:

    i don’t believe in anything i can’t see or hear or touch. i can’t see earth, so why should i believe in it?

    … when i’m in boston, new york is dead. when i’m in new york, boston is dead. when i don’t see a man for a day, he’s dead. when he comes walking down the street, my god, it’s a resurrection. i do a dance, almost, i’m so glad to see him. i used to, anyway. i don’t dance any more.

    … you have no mental evidence. that’s what i want, a mental evidence i can feel. i don’t want physical evidence, proof you have to go out and drag in. i want evidence that you can carry in your mind and always touch and smell and feel. but there’s no way to do that. in order to believe in a thing you’ve got to carry it with you. you can’t carry the earth. or a man, in your pocket. i want a way to do that, carry things with me always, so i can believe in them.

    … there was always that gap of proof. that gap between doing and having done. what is done is dead and is not proof, for it is not an action. only actions are important. and pieces of paper were remains of actions done and over and now unseen. the proof of doing was over and done. nothing but memory remained, and i didn’t trust my memory. could i actually prove i’d written these stories? no. can any author?

    but while the astronaut is sincerely troubled, birthers are merely being petulant — they are simply hiding behind their endless demands for evidence so they can deny the results of the 2008 election (and now also too the even more shocking — to them — 2012 election), to themselves if no one else.

  72. avatar
    misha marinsky January 1, 2013 at 10:07 pm #

    Megastar: True Americans are duty bound to weed

    You’re 420 friendly – glad to have you here. I like Alice Toklas brownies, myself.

  73. avatar
    misha marinsky January 1, 2013 at 10:30 pm #

    americantaxpayer: Whats a natural-born citizen again?

    It was first described by William Shakespeare, in MacBeth.

    Be bloody, bold, and resolute; laugh to scorn
    The power of man, for none of woman born
    Shall harm Macbeth.

    However, MacDuff was NOT a natural born citizen:

    Tell thee, Macduff was from his mother’s womb
    Untimely ripp’d.

    This of course was confirmed by George Bernard Shaw, in The Doctor’s Dilemma. It has something to do with the phagocytes.

  74. avatar
    brygenon January 1, 2013 at 10:34 pm #

    Scientist: The courts ought to stick to narrowly deciding actual cases, not mixing in to questions that belong rightfully to the people. As for Congress, seriously, have you been following what’s been going on there? To call it a madhouse would be a gross insult to the insane. No, all those clowns should do is count the votes and certify them as they stand. On a good day they could possibly avoid mucking that up. Maybe.

    Dissatisfaction is good reason to try to change how things are, but not good reason to believe things are otherwise.

  75. avatar
    brygenon January 1, 2013 at 11:20 pm #

    Joey: I’ve been debating with a birther on another blog who believes that any birth certificate can have erroneous information on it and therefore all the Seals, stamps, letters of verification and state of Hawai’i press releases in the world can’t authenticate “misinformation.” He maintains that 51 years later, the state of Hawai’i can’t vouch for the accuracy of the original birth data.

    So how much faith should we have in Hawaii’s records and how much credit should we give them?

    This is one of the easiest points on which to stomp birthers. See: US Constitution, Article IV, Section 1, and possibly 28 USC 1739 and Federal Rule of Evidence 902(1).

  76. avatar
    Arthur January 1, 2013 at 11:25 pm #

    misha marinsky: You’re 420 friendly – glad to have you here. I like Alice Toklas brownies, myself.

    Hey Misha,

    Here’s a video to celebrate 4:20

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anQWKDvwfj4

    And here’s the original Beyonce video on which the parody was based

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XY3AvVgDns

    Hope you enjoy them as much as I have.

  77. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 1, 2013 at 11:37 pm #

    Obama and I aren’t that close.

    Hermitian: Mr. C. could do the Nation a service if he would ask Obama to allow him to post a photographic image of both certified paper copies on his blog site. I challenge him to do so.

  78. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 1, 2013 at 11:39 pm #

    Onaka verified all the information on the form to Secretary of State Kobach, referencing the White House PDF file by URL.

    Hermitian: Thus Onaka did not specifically verify the following purported facts contained in the request form

    Date of Birth: August 4, 1961

    Place of Birth: Honolulu Oahu

    Father’s Name: Barack Hussein Obama

    Mother’s Name: Stanley Ann Dunham

  79. avatar
    gorefan January 2, 2013 at 12:47 am #

    Hermitian: Hence we know that neither of the two LFCOLB PDF images that Obama has produced to the same Federal District Court is a photocopy or duplicate image of his original birth certificate.

    We also know that the White House pdf has the following information:

    Box 5a – August 4, 1961

    Box 6a – Honolulu

    Box 6b – Oahu

    Box 8 – Barack Hussein Obama

    Box 13 – Stanley Ann Dunham

    And we know that the original birth record on file at the Hawaii DOH contains the following:

    Box 5a – August 4, 1961

    Box 6a – Honolulu

    Box 6b – Oahu

    Box 8 – Barack Hussein Obama

    Box 13 – Stanley Ann Dunham

    We know this because Dr. Onaka has produced three certified verifications that specifically say this is the information on the original Certificate of Live Birth.

    And per Hawaii Rev, Stat. 338-14.3 (b) – A verification shall be considered for all purposes certification that the vital event did occur and that the facts of the event are as stated by the applicant.

    Unless of course it is your contention that when Dr. Onaka certifies that Box 6b on the White House pdf matches Box 6b on the original Certificate of Live Birth, he means that they have different entries.

  80. avatar
    Onaka January 2, 2013 at 1:06 am #

    when will the birfoons realized obama produced it, and couldn’t be expected to produce it, until, of course, he produced it again, when he didn’t really produce it at all, just kind of waved it around and posted something else, which is more than enough for all of us, because we were with him when he first produced it, and couldn’t be expected to produce it until he produced it again by not really producing it at all.

    give me an o, ladies.

  81. avatar
    Onaka January 2, 2013 at 1:08 am #

    and I don’t think it’s nice when the birfoons call us all Obama’s simpering bitches, either.

  82. avatar
    BillTheCat January 2, 2013 at 3:01 am #

    Hermitian and Megastar – you lost the election, go cry us a river. Oh never mind, you are. And regurgitating failed birther talking points gets you nowhere, just like in the over 100 cases your ilk have lost in court. Some legal record you got there on your side!

  83. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 2, 2013 at 5:07 am #

    Hermitian: The lie that the Obots continue to spread is that the English Common Law was adopted as the prevailing U.S. National Law after ratification of the U.S. Constitution. That was never the case.

    Actually, that is exactly what the Supreme Court has said. The Constitution is written in the language of the English Common Law, and should be read in light of it’s HIstory (Smith v. Alabama).

    Not to mention that every one of the 13 colonies explicitly adopted English Common Law as the basis of their laws. In fact, the only state that hasn’t adopted the Common Law is Louisiana.

  84. avatar
    Joe Acerbic January 2, 2013 at 5:19 am #

    Hermitian:
    Barack Obama has never produced a certified paper copy of his original birth certificate to any court or election official.

    He has produced a certified paper copy of his original birth certificate without a moment’s hesitation to every single court or election official who has asked for it.

  85. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 2, 2013 at 5:35 am #

    Hermitian:
    Barack Obama has never produced a certified paper copy of his original birth certificate to any court or election official.Instead he has saddled the taxpayers with millions in legal fees and lost taxes to pay for attorneys to fight against releasing even one certified paper copy.

    Actually, he has released a certified copy. He scanned it into his scanner, and posted an image of it on his website. He then allowed the pre-eminent fact-checking organization to take photographs of it (they published 9 different photographs of it) and then allowed the Hawaii Department of Health to say “it’s a valid Hawaii State Birth Certificate” on at least 3 separate occasions (Janice Okubo in an interview, and then 2 different press releases).

    He has done so in spite of having stipulated to a Federal District Court that he had requested and received two certified copies of his original paper birth certificate from Loretta Fuddy, the Hawaii State Health Director, on Apr. 25, 2011.The cost of these two certified copies was $14.00.

    You do realize that no court has ever required to see his birth certificate. And if they did, Obama would not present the two certified copies that he recieved, he’d present the copy that he released back in June of 2008.

    In spite of the negligible cost for these two copies, Obama has never released either of these certified copies to the public or produced one in a court of competent jurisdiction.

    You don’t consider standing in front of TV cameras, showing it to the TV camera, giving each person in the White House Press Corps their own photocopy, allowing the White House Press Corps to photograph it, and then scanning it into the website, and putting it on the White House Website to be releasing it?

    After the passage of the 911 laws in 2004, any citizen who presents a birth certificate to any federal agency must present a certified copy.The certified copy must bear the seal impression of the issuing state and the state registrar’s signature.

    Yeah, you mean like the one that he released on his website and allowed the Press to photograph in 2008? You do realize that if any governmental agency actually required to see it, that’s the one that they’d require, don’t you?

    Also, INS regulations now require that any citizen who provides a birth certificate to apply for a passport must provide a certified copy.

    I got a passport with a birth certificate that had no more information on it than Obama’s COLB, the one that he released back in 2008. Guess what, it was a computer printout, not any sort of “photocopy” of the original. In fact, my state hasn’t used photocopies of the original for over 20 years. Much more economical to do a computer printout database.

    We are a country of laws and not men. Why does Obama think he should get a pass?

    Why do you think that Obama should be held to laws that don’t exist. Mind showing me the law that says that the President, upon the asking of anybody, must present his original birth certificate to a court that doesn’t have jurisdiction even over hearing the matter? As you say, we are a nation of laws, not men. Show me the law that requires Obama to specifically produce a birth certificate as a requirement for being President. Show me exactly who he is required to present it to, and at what time. Please show this to me. I have yet to find it.

  86. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny January 2, 2013 at 5:47 am #

    dunstvangeet: Actually, that is exactly what the Supreme Court has said.

    Most external sources debating the US constitution and the US legal system start by saying that the United States inherited English Common Law,

    “The due process clause of the Constitution was partly based on common law and on Magna Carta (1215) which had become a foundation of English liberty against arbitrary power wielded by a tyrant.

    Both the influence of Edward Coke and William Blackstone were evident at the Convention. In his Institutes of the Laws of England, Edward Coke interpreted Magna Carta protections and rights to apply not just to nobles, but to all British subjects. In writing the Virginia Charter of 1606, he enabled the King in Parliament to give those to be born in the colonies all rights and liberties as though they were born in England. William Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England were the most influential books on law in the new republic.”

    Now google that, flying monkeys, instead of basing your legal fantasies on the blogs of Taitz and Apuzzo.

    Чрезмерное употребление Тайца вредит вашему здоровью – as one Russian blogger put it. And the health of your computer as well.

  87. avatar
    Ben P. January 2, 2013 at 6:12 am #

    americantaxpayer:
    If I have read the document correctly, it says the father was born in kenya. Whats a natural-born citizen again?

    Even, arguendo, if you twofers are right, and you decidedly are not, *then there’s nothing on the birth certificate that you haven’t already seen that you need to see again*, so the birth certificate no longer has anything to do with it, and asking where it is, is just absurd.

    And, again, you’re not right on that, regardless. But still.

  88. avatar
    JPotter January 2, 2013 at 6:20 am #

    dunstvangeet: Not to mention that every one of the 13 colonies explicitly adopted English Common Law as the basis of their laws. In fact, the only state that hasn’t adopted the Common Law is Louisiana.

    This willful foolishness of de birfers continues to amaze me. Any student of the period can tell you the Founding generation had more than enough to sort out without attempting to enforce a complete reboot of the entire legal system, and the top-to-bottom civil chaos that would have ensued. And at what point would the very independent minded new states been inclined to accept such a mandatory reboot? At the time of the Declaration? At the adoption of the Articles? At their respective ratification of the Constitution? Yeah right! Each state had been operating as an English entity for 44 – 169 years at the time of the Declaration. Generations of precedent were in place. The landed class which held nearly all the political power would have no interest in a potential upset in deeds, titles, and charters, nor would the mercantile class have been crazy about any rewrite of customs, duties, monopolies, tariffs.

    Why is Louisiana the exception? Because it had in place a century of precedent rooted in pre-Napoleonic French civil law.

    Why do birfers bag on English common law so? Other than that pesky birthright citizenship, they would love English law ca. 1750. Various classes of citizenship, aliens taxed heavier than subjects, naturalization nearly impossible, a subclass of denizens to look down on, aliens denied property rights or inheritance … it’s a sweet, xenophobic birfer paradise. Best of all for birfers …. no written constitution! Law can be made on the fly! Just give the right Lord a reason to sign on to your crazy and your off!

  89. avatar
    JPotter January 2, 2013 at 6:46 am #

    Hermitian: Instead he has saddled the taxpayers with millions in legal fees and lost taxes to pay for attorneys

    Yeah, those empty chairs are so very expensive.

    Hermitian: English Common Law was imposed on the Colonies by King George III.

    LOL! Hardly. Each colony passed a reception statute, as did every British possession, from Hong Kong to Canada, as one of their first legislative acts. It’s a necessary first step to establish a legal tradition … unless you expected them to have started from scratch at tribalism.

    When each state establishes a constitution at statehood, as did each of the colonies in the years following 1776, each incorporates a reception statute. The colonies, in order to preserve their pre-statehood colonial precendent, backdated their reception of English common law to the date of the colonies founding (Virginia, 1607, MS, 1620, etc.). Thus when tracing precedence in Virginia, American law trumps Virginia colonial law trumps English law. If going back farther, it’s English law.

    As much as I’d love to beat you over the head with every single reception statute (here’s Maine’s, which is really interesting as it receives the law of its parent (Massachusetts) and England): http://www.mainelaw.maine.edu/academics/maine-law-review/pdf/vol30_1/vol30_me_l_rev_274.pdf) …. here’s a pretty darn good writeup that saves me the time …. from RedState.com! LOL!

    English Common Law and American Law (A Digression)
    By: Jake (Diary) | May 24th, 2012 at 03:25 AM
    http://www.redstate.com/2012/05/24/english-common-law-and-american-law-a-digression/

  90. avatar
    Northland10 January 2, 2013 at 7:26 am #

    Hermitian: Barack Obama has never produced a certified paper copy of his original birth certificate to any court or election official.

    Remind me which court or election official actually asked for it. Remind me, how many other Presidents or candidates produced a certified paper copy of his original birth certificate to any court or election official. Remind me why you have different rules for this one.

  91. avatar
    Scientist January 2, 2013 at 7:41 am #

    Hermitian: After the Revolutionary War King George deeded the land to the citizens of the Colonies who were living on the land. Each citizen became a sovereign land owner.

    Really? Most citizens in fact owned no land in the early days of the US. Even amongst the free white population, the majority lived in cities or towns or were tenant farmers or indentured servants.

    Could you possibly make even one factually correct statement?

  92. avatar
    ASK Esq January 2, 2013 at 7:43 am #

    Hermitian: The last sentence in SOS Bennett’s request for verification was:
    “Additionally, please verify that the attached copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Mr. Obama is a true and accurate representation of the original record in your files.”
    Onaka was unable to verify this as fact. Instead he responded as follows:
    “Additionally, i verify that the information in the copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for
    Mr. Obama that you attached with your request matches the original record in our files.”
    Hence we know that neither of the two LFCOLB PDF images that Obama has produced to the same Federal District Court is a photocopy or duplicate image of his original birth certificate.

    Actually no, we don’t know that. What we know is that the State of Hawaii didn’t make the photocopy or scan that they were asked to confirm as a true and accurate representation, so they could not do so. For all they knew, the White House hired someone to painstakingly copy the BC by hand, for no apparent reason. But there was no way Onaka could legally verify it as a true and accurate representation, since his department didn’t make the copy. However, since he verified that all of the information matched what is in their records, that is all that matters.

  93. avatar
    Northland10 January 2, 2013 at 8:11 am #

    Scientist: Really?Most citizens in fact owned no land in the early days of the US.Even amongst the free white population, the majority lived in cities or towns or were tenant farmers or indentured servants.

    Could you possibly make even one factually correct statement?

    Hermie teaches me something new everyday. I have seen the land warrant for my ancestors when they left being tenant farmers in Virginia and moved west (a gift for his service in the war). I just did not realize until today that King George signed his name, Patrick Henry.

  94. avatar
    Thomas Brown January 2, 2013 at 9:17 am #

    BillTheCat: Hermitian and Megastar – you lost the election, go cry us a river.

    Mmmmmm. Birther tears.

    Good thing you’ve already got the nuts and crackers to go with that whine!

  95. avatar
    Yoda January 2, 2013 at 9:29 am #

    Hermitian: Barack Obama has never produced a certified paper copy of his original birth certificate to any court or election official. Instead he has saddled the taxpayers with millions in legal fees and lost taxes to pay for attorneys to fight against releasing even one certified paper copy.

    Not exactly. Others have concentrated on the BC. I will concentrate on the money. Birthers have pushed this lie in a couple of different forms, that he spent over two million dollars “hiding” the documents (or more depending on the website) and that he has improperly used taxpayer money to fight these lawsuits. Since you focused on the second, that is what I will respond to.

    Birthers have filed ill advised and frivolous lawsuits all over the country. They have repeated asked for things that they are not entitled to under the law. More specifically, they have demanded proof of something to their subjective satisfaction and, in doing so, have demanded that several entities, including the HDOH violate privacy laws in order to accommodate them. They have, at various times, attempted to unconstitutionally use the Court system to remove a sitting President. You expect the not only this President, but the Office of the President of the United States to capitulate to your childish demands instead of fighting for the dignity of the Office. You expect the President to weaken his office by giving into blackmail in order to appease seditionists. I do not.

    The President provided a COLB and a LFBC, both of which have been certified themselves and the content attested to and verified on multiple occasions. That is, or at least, should be enough. But we all know that it isn’t because nothing will satisfy birthers.

    One poster on another pager said that as long as one person was not satisfied, the President still had something to prove. Aside from the fact that the President has nothing to prove, we are tired of the goal posts being moved. Seeing the original document will not be enough because people will claim that it was faked. I have heard calls for DNA results and body exhumation.

    The President didn’t spend taxpayer money to fight letting you see his BC. You have seen his BC. He spent taxpayer money, to the extent he did, to protect the Presidency from domestic terrorists and seditionists.

  96. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 2, 2013 at 9:30 am #

    The empty chair was paid for by the Obama campaign, not the taxpayers.

    JPotter: Yeah, those empty chairs are so very expensive.

  97. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 2, 2013 at 9:43 am #

    Not really.

    Birth certificates have always been certified copies; this is nothing new after 9/11. Also a birth certificate is NOT required to apply for a passport. A valid expired passport can also be used as proof of citizenship for a passport application. That’s certainly what I used last time.

    When Obama obtained his new passport as a Senator, and then as President, he most reasonably would have used a prior passport as proof of citizenship.

    Hermitian: After the passage of the 911 laws in 2004, any citizen who presents a birth certificate to any federal agency must present a certified copy. The certified copy must bear the seal impression of the issuing state and the state registrar’s signature.

    Also, INS regulations now require that any citizen who provides a birth certificate to apply for a passport must provide a certified copy.

  98. avatar
    INCREDIBLE January 2, 2013 at 9:43 am #

    All the geniuses on this board have not accounted for the “illegal alien’s” non-American parent since the beginning of the eligibility issue.

    The content on the board reeks of bovine scatological unsupported forgeries.

    The illegal alien playing the game will eventually be taken down because the idiot can’t validate his documents to be in conformance to American laws.

    The illegal alien’s father was never an American citizen, so take all of the fantasied scribbling on this board and burn it, it’s worthless.

    There are enough plausible arguments made about this illegal alien in the WH that require investigation. Other presidential candidates that would’ve had the same or similar discrepancies in their history would’ve been equally challenged to prove who they were.
    Goldwater, McCain, Rubio, Jindle, and more will be or have been challenged.

    This board is loaded with racist… they want a black president, so they broke the laws to get one. On the other hand candidates like; Keyes, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Ward Cornelly, Colonel West, Senator Brooks from Ma. all would have enhanced the minority communities image in America. As it turns out you racist have demeaned and damaged the minority communities image in America and around the world… you cretins who voted color, not law, and will suffer the consequences of your ignorant racist ideology.

  99. avatar
    Arthur January 2, 2013 at 9:52 am #

    INCREDIBLE: The illegal alien’s father was never an American citizen, so take all of the fantasied scribbling on this board and burn it, it’s worthless.

    You’re right: Obama Sr. was never an American citizen–and that has nothing to do with Obama Jr.’s status as a natural born citizen. You can read more about this under “Quick Reference: Recent court rulings on presidential eligibility” located at the bottom left of this page. However, my experience suggests that as a birther, you will deny the very existence of these decisions and hold to what you want to believe.

  100. avatar
    JPotter January 2, 2013 at 9:59 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The empty chair was paid for by the Obama campaign, not the taxpayers.

    Of course, these are political cases, they are handled by political, not governmental entities, and thus ultimately paid for by donors, not taxpayers. Voluntary funds, not compulsory assessments.

  101. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 2, 2013 at 10:02 am #

    I do use a pedantic style for many of the articles here, including this one. However, I do not engage in deception–I leave that to the birthers. I would not characterize the judges in 190 lost birther lawsuits as “idiots”–I leave that to the birthers too.

    Megastar: Sorry to say that opposition to the blog owner who pedantically speaks and lures through deceptions many of the “useful idiots” that live in America into a false belief of eligibility for a POTUS.

  102. avatar
    Rickey January 2, 2013 at 10:03 am #

    INCREDIBLE:
    Other presidential candidates that would’ve had the same or similar discrepancies in their history would’ve been equally challenged to prove who they were.
    Goldwater, McCain, Rubio, Jindle, and more will be or have been challenged.

    This board is loaded with racist… they want a black president, so they broke the laws to get one.On the other hand candidates like; Keyes, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Ward Cornelly, Colonel West, Senator Brooks from Ma.all would have enhanced the minority communities image in America.As it turns out you racist have demeaned and damaged the minority communities image in America and around the world… you cretins who voted color, not law, and will suffer the consequences of your ignorant racist ideology.

    I love the delicious irony of a racist ignoramus accusing others of racism and ignorance.

    Barry Goldwater’s eligibility was never challenged.

    The name is Bobby Jindal, not Jindle.

    The name is Ward Connerly, not Cornelly.

    The name was Edward Brooke, not Brooks.

    Please specify what laws were broken in order to elect President Obama. Identify the specific statutes and provide us with the specific criminal acts which were committed.

  103. avatar
    Yoda January 2, 2013 at 10:04 am #

    INCREDIBLE: All the geniuses on this board have not accounted for the “illegal alien’s” non-American parent since the beginning of the eligibility issue.The content on the board reeks of bovine scatological unsupported forgeries.The illegal alien playing the game will eventually be taken down because the idiot can’t validate his documents to be in conformance to American laws.The illegal alien’s father was never an American citizen, so take all of the fantasied scribbling on this board and burn it, it’s worthless.There are enough plausible arguments made about this illegal alien in the WH that require investigation. Other presidential candidates that would’ve had the same or similar discrepancies in their history would’ve been equally challenged to prove who they were.Goldwater, McCain, Rubio, Jindle, and more will be or have been challenged. This board is loaded with racist… they want a black president, so they broke the laws to get one. On the other hand candidates like; Keyes, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Ward Cornelly, Colonel West, Senator Brooks from Ma. all would have enhanced the minority communities image in America. As it turns out you racist have demeaned and damaged the minority communities image in America and around the world… you cretins who voted color, not law, and will suffer the consequences of your ignorant racist ideology.

    We all know the citizenship status of the President despite the fact that you claim we ignore it. Speaking for myself, I have analyzed the law, and the twofer argument does not stand up to any legal analysis. There is no legal support for your position. Even Minor v. Happersett, which birthers contend is binding precedent on the twofer position, not only does not support your position, it hurts it, destroys it even.

    Aside from the fact that the famous passage in Minor is dicta, aside from the fact that the Court expressly indicated that it was not ruling on the citizenship status of children born on US soil to alien parents, and aside from the fact that the Court never said this class, and only this class, of people are NBC, the Court NEVER said that the children of citizen parents (which does not necessarily mean two citizen parents) born on US soil are NBC. Rather, the Court said that the children of citizen parents born on US soil are themselves, citizens upon their birth. The next sentence is key, THESE are natives or natural born citizens. The these refers to citizens upon their birth, not the children of citizens parents born on US soil. The Courts were saying that citizens at birth are natives or natural born citizens, thus equating citizens at birth, native citizens and natural born citizens. They are synonyms as every court which has ever looked at this issue has stated.

    I, for one, do not care what color skin the President has. I am glad that I live in a country that will elect a minority president, but the only thing I want is a competent president.

  104. avatar
    Scientist January 2, 2013 at 10:06 am #

    INCREDIBLE: The illegal alien

    In truth, all whites, blacks and Asians in the US are illegal aliens living on stolen land. Just sayin’…

  105. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 2, 2013 at 10:11 am #

    I just wanted to take this opportunity to say what has come to mind dozens of times before. We get a visitor who makes a comment like the one below that characterizes the content or lack of content on the site.

    The comment says “you never cover,” “you have ignored,” “you have not accounted for,” or “why are you afraid to talk about” some topic of another, when there are a dozen articles on the topic in the blog.

    I have gone to some considerable effort to make information easy to find. First, I have optimized the site for search engines, and added alternate text to images. I’ve even provided tutorial articles on how to use search engines more effectively. I categorize and tag articles.

    Then I have put a topic selection drop down list in the sidebar called “Conspiracies.” There is a search box that works quite well. There is also a tag cloud to find commonly used tags, like “natural born citizen.” Menus have many references, and finally I wrote the Debunker’s Guide to Obama Conspiracy Theories that indexes the main articles on important topics.

    There is simply no excuse for someone to come here and say that I am ignoring a topic that I am clearly not ignoring.

    See also:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/74176180/Qualifications-for-President-and-the-%E2%80%9CNatural-Born%E2%80%9D-Citizenship-Eligibility-Requirement

    INCREDIBLE: All the geniuses on this board have not accounted for the “illegal alien’s” non-American parent since the beginning of the eligibility issue.

  106. avatar
    donna January 2, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    INCREDIBLE (incroyable):

    since you speak of “geniuses”, how would you translate this french phrase into english:

    j’ai des parents en italie mais mes parents sont ici en amérique”

    those who endorse vattel don’t know the correct english translation of the french “les parents”

    a 1st year french student would

  107. avatar
    Hermitian January 2, 2013 at 10:24 am #

    “dunstvangeetJanuary 2, 2013 at 5:35 am 1. (Quote)#

    “Hermitian:

    “Barack Obama has never produced a certified paper copy of his original birth certificate to any court or election official.Instead he has saddled the taxpayers with millions in legal fees and lost taxes to pay for attorneys to fight against releasing even one certified paper copy.

    “Actually, he has released a certified copy. He scanned it into his scanner, and posted an image of it on his website. He then allowed the pre-eminent fact-checking organization to take photographs of it (they published 9 different photographs of it) and then allowed the Hawaii Department of Health to say “it’s a valid Hawaii State Birth Certificate” on at least 3 separate occasions (Janice Okubo in an interview, and then 2 different press releases).”

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    The WH LFCOLB PDF image cannot be a scanned image of a paper document. Instead it is an image that was assembled from multiple other images on a computer by means of Adobe software. This forged PDF image file was proffered by Obama’s attorneys to a Federal District Judge and associated with the letter correspondence that stipulates that Obama requested and received two certified copies of his original birth certificate from the HDOH on Apr. 25, 2011. That act by Obama’s attorneys propagated a fraud upon the court. The fraud was that Obama’s attorneys represented this forged PDF image as a duplicate copy of his original birth certificate.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    “He has done so in spite of having stipulated to a Federal District Court that he had requested and received two certified copies of his original paper birth certificate from Loretta Fuddy, the Hawaii State Health Director, on Apr. 25, 2011.The cost of these two certified copies was $14.00.

    “You do realize that no court has ever required to see his birth certificate. And if they did, Obama would not present the two certified copies that he recieved, he’d present the copy that he released back in June of 2008.”

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    Too bad for you Dunst ! — Obama doesn’t get a do-over in a Federal District Court. You don’t get to retract an ECF filing after the fact. The forged WH LFCOLB will be in the court record and available for all future Obama eligibility cases.

    Why don’t you call up Obama’s MDEC attorneys and suggest that they retract the WH LFCOLB forgery and replace it with the WH COLB forgery. You know that’s the COLB with the redacted BC number. The COLB that no member of the public has every seen the back side of. The one with the 2007 bleed-thru date. Sure they will — when pigs can fly!
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    “We are a country of laws and not men. Why does Obama think he should get a pass?

    “Why do you think that Obama should be held to laws that don’t exist. Mind showing me the law that says that the President, upon the asking of anybody, must present his original birth certificate to a court that doesn’t have jurisdiction even over hearing the matter? As you say, we are a nation of laws, not men. Show me the law that requires Obama to specifically produce a birth certificate as a requirement for being President. Show me exactly who he is required to present it to, and at what time. Please show this to me. I have yet to find it.”

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    Obama produced a forgery in-lieu of an original document to a Federal District Court. The forgery is not a duplicate copy of an original document. There are Federal rules of evidence that control the production of duplicate copies in lieu of original documents. There are no Federal rules of evidence that permit production of a forgery in lieu of an original document.

    So let’s see the two certified paper copies for which Obama provided the letter correspondence to the Federal District court. These two copies would have been produced on green basket-weave security paper. They would bear the Hawaii State seal impression and the State Registrar’s date and signature stamps in black ink.

    These two copies should satisfy the requirements of the 2004 Federal law regarding production of birth certificates to all Federal agencies.

    Obama has stipulated to the Federal District Court that he has these two certified copies and that his cost for these copies was only $14.00.

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  108. avatar
    Rickey January 2, 2013 at 10:32 am #

    Hermitian:

    The lie that the Obots continue to spread is that the English Common Law was adopted as the prevailing U.S. National Law after ratification of the U.S. Constitution.That was never the case.

    Actually, the English common law had already been adopted by the first Continental Congress in 1776,

    The common law was also the birthright of free men, a precious inheritance, perverted by the British under George III, but still a vital reality. One rhetorical pillar of the men of 1776 was that the common law embodied fundamental norms of natural law. The first Continental Congress, in 1776, adopted a Declaration of Rights; it declared that the colonies were “entitled to the common law of England.” – “A History of American Law” by Lawrence Friedman (1973), p. 95

  109. avatar
    Andy January 2, 2013 at 11:26 am #

    The WHLFCOLB PDF image cannot be a scanned image of a paper document.Instead it is an image that was assembled from multiple other images on a computer by means of Adobe software.This forged PDF image file was proffered by Obama’s attorneys to a Federal District Judge andassociated with the letter correspondence that stipulates that Obama requested and received two certified copies of his original birth certificate from the HDOH on Apr. 25, 2011.That act by Obama’s attorneys propagated a fraud upon the court.The fraud was that Obama’s attorneys represented this forged PDF image as a duplicate copy of his original birth certificate.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Why can’t it be a scan of an original. There is no proof offered that it was created in any other way.

    And no. The attorneys in Mississippi didn’t proffer anything. They did provide a more clear copy of something that was ALREADY IN THE RECORD, submitted by the PLAINTIFF.

    Too bad for you Dunst ! — Obama doesn’t get a do-over in a Federal District Court.You don’t get to retract an ECF filing after the fact.The forged WH LFCOLB will be in the court record and available for all future Obama eligibility cases.

    Why don’t you call up Obama’s MDEC attorneys and suggest that they retract the WH LFCOLB forgery and replace it with the WH COLB forgery.You know that’s the COLB with the redacted BC number.The COLB that no member of the public has every seen the back side of.The one with the 2007 bleed-thru date.Sure they will — when pigs can fly!
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    They don’t need a do-over. The submission was already in the record. But they also got a Verification from Onaka, which means more to the court than your screeching. :-D

    Obama produced a forgery in-lieu of an original document to a Federal District Court.The forgery is not a duplicate copy of an original document.There are Federal rules of evidence that control the production of duplicate copies in lieu of original documents.There are no Federal rules of evidence that permit production of a forgery in lieu of an original document.

    So let’s see the two certified paper copies for which Obama provided the letter correspondence to the Federal District court.These two copies would have been produced on green basket-weave security paper.They would bear the Hawaii State seal impression and the State Registrar’s date and signature stamps in black ink.

    These two copies should satisfy the requirements of the 2004 Federal law regarding production of birth certificates to all Federal agencies.

    Obama has stipulated to the Federal District Court that he has these two certified copies and that his cost for these copies was only $14.00.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Which federal agency is requesting his birth certificate? None that I know of.

  110. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 2, 2013 at 11:34 am #

    Link to the original (1774):

    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=lljc&fileName=001/lljc001.db&recNum=71&itemLink=?%230010072&linkText=1

    Rickey: The first Continental Congress, in 1776, adopted a Declaration of Rights; it declared that the colonies were “entitled to the common law of England.” –

  111. avatar
    JPotter January 2, 2013 at 11:37 am #

    INCREDIBLE: This board is loaded with racist…

    Until homo stultus is recognized as a ‘race’, I am merely an elitist.

    INCREDIBLE: they want a black president,

    ‘they’ who? AlI wanted was a President that would keeps the Reds from doing what comes naturally to them. And I got it. Twice now.

    INCREDIBLE: Keyes, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Ward Cornelly, Colonel West, Senator Brooks from Ma. all would have enhanced the minority communities image in America.

    Whew … I’ll just note that is a subjective statement and leave it at that. (Col.? Even West doesn’t refer to himself as Colonel (that I have heard)).

    INCREDIBLE: As it turns out you racist have demeaned and damaged the minority communities image in America and around the world…

    You need to get out more. You has passport?

  112. avatar
    NBC IS FACT January 2, 2013 at 1:16 pm #

    THE ELIGIBILITY ISSUE NEEDS TO BE HEARD IN A COURT OF LAW…PERIOD.

    If the NBC requirement is invalid as some, who claim to be experts, on this site attempt to postulate, then why would pathetic congressman make attempts to re-write the NBC clause contained in America’s Constitution?

    The fact that there were 8 attempts to modify the NBC requirements surely points out that the NBC requirements means what is written in the NBC requirement.

    Someone labeled this blog as a racist blog… he/she got it right, it is a racist blog.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H3aCfR8rmrw#

    This one is taken from this blog, it is a timeline showing the corrupt being’s that is in America’s

    That guy in America’s house is worst than Al Capone, or other criminal types. Can anyone deny that the highest form of corruption in America’s history is now sitting in America’s leaders chair?

    What a fraud he is, and he got elected by the “useful idiots” in America. Here’s the fraud’s history. YUK!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxB0FlYayGA

    Someone else on this blog questioned the comment about the 1st governor of the American colonies. Well the first governor died after one year and was replaced by governor Bradford who is considered to be the first governor of the colonies. Bradford initiated what America calls “capitalism”. Go find out why Bradford changed the colonial governance from a collective to capitalism.

    Any American who is ignorant of the reasons why Bradford created capitalism needs to be removed from America.

    Don’t ask for any specific details just do your own ‘accurate’ research on Bradford.

  113. avatar
    Tom January 2, 2013 at 1:39 pm #

    The only reason people who doubt the validity of obama’s birth certificate are called “birthers” is so we might forget the word FRAUD! IMPEACH OBAMA!

  114. avatar
    Tom January 2, 2013 at 1:41 pm #

    i am not racist: IMPEACH OBAMA, ELECT CLARENCE THOMAS!

  115. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 2, 2013 at 1:50 pm #

    Why don’t you call up Obama’s MDEC attorneys and suggest that they retract the WH LFCOLB forgery and replace it with the WH COLB forgery.You know that’s the COLB with the redacted BC number.The COLB that no member of the public has every seen the back side of.The one with the 2007 bleed-thru date.Sure they will — when pigs can fly!

    Actually, people have. I told you that Factcheck.org published 9 photos of the Birth Certificate on their website. 3 of them are of the back of the document.

    http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_9.jpg
    http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_8.jpg
    http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_7.jpg

    Are all of the back of the COLB. So, for something that you say that no member of the public has seen, there sure does seem to be a lot of photographs of it.

    If you’d like to see the other photographs (including the actual birth certificate number), replace the number at the end of the link with the numbers 1-9.

  116. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 2, 2013 at 1:54 pm #

    Tom:
    The only reason people who doubt the validity of obama’s birth certificate are called “birthers” is so we might forget the word FRAUD! IMPEACH OBAMA!

    No, they’re called birthers, because they are completely nuts, and want to completely destroy the constitution. The Constitution require that we accept the documents of Hawaii with the Full Faith and Credit of the Constitution. Why do you hate the Constitution?

  117. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 2, 2013 at 1:54 pm #

    Tom:
    i am not racist: IMPEACH OBAMA, ELECT CLARENCE THOMAS!

    Name one white President that you’ve done this to. Then I’ll believe that you’re not Racist.

  118. avatar
    Scientist January 2, 2013 at 1:56 pm #

    Tom: i am not racist: IMPEACH OBAMA, ELECT CLARENCE THOMAS!

    There is no provision in the Constitution by which Justice Thomas becomes President. If Obama were impeached, you get Joe Biden. Thomas could resign from the Court and run in 2016, but it will be a crowded field and I wouldn’t put money on his chances.

  119. avatar
    JPotter January 2, 2013 at 2:11 pm #

    Hermitian: The WH LFCOLB PDF image cannot be a scanned image of a paper document.

    Oh, I’ll play. “Why not?” he asks with feigned interest in any possible answer to the very tired question. Yawn.

    Hermitian: by means of Adobe software.

    Why is it always ‘Adobe software’? The particular software brand has no bearing whatsoever on the crank assertions being made. It’s completely irrelevant to the deception being shilled. Admitting that there is no discoverable trace of Adobe, and believe you me, there isn’t, in no way undermines the birf. (Sure as hell doesn’t improve it either!)

    Yet the birfers always insist it was Adobe. What’s the point to this point?

    Or, right. Birfer Law: Just say anything to avoid acknowledging the tiniest of errors. And yes, we mean anything.

    This Birfer Law is based on this Birfer Truth: Perceived infallibility is the basis of credibility.

    Reality: the primary effect of this approach is to reveal the adherent as a lying sack of the first order … consistently, immediately, and universally.

  120. avatar
    Thomas Brown January 2, 2013 at 2:21 pm #

    At a quick read, any visitor to this page would observe:

    1) The Birfers can’t spell or punctuate, are bellicose, and have no knowledge of American history.

    2) The Obots write well, show patience with the Birfers, and have a good grasp of American history.

    Guess who this visitor would believe?

  121. avatar
    Saint James January 2, 2013 at 2:50 pm #

    americantaxpayer: If I have read the document correctly, it says the father was born in kenya. Whats a natural-born citizen again?

    “The weight of legal and historical authority indicates that the term “natural born” citizen would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship “by birth” or “at birth,” either by being born “in” the United States and under its jurisdiction, even those born to alien parents; by being born abroad to U.S. citizen-parents; or by being born in other situations meeting legal requirements for U.S. citizenship “at birth.” Such term, however, would not include a person who was not a U.S. citizen by birth or at birth, and who was thus born an “alien” required to go through the legal process of “naturalization” to become a U.S. citizen.”… Qualifications for President and the “Natural
    Born” Citizenship Eligibility Requirement
    Jack Maskell
    Legislative Attorney
    Congressional Research Service
    November 14, 2011

    The following are also Natural Born Citizens…

    8 USC 1401 – Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
    The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

    (a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

    (b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;

    (c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

    (d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

    (e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;

    (f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;

    (g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person

    (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or

    (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and

    (h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

  122. avatar
    Arthur January 2, 2013 at 3:20 pm #

    Tom: ELECT CLARENCE THOMAS!

    For Clarence Thomas to be elected, he’d first have to participate in the primaries, and in primary debates, and that would mean Justice Thomas would have to speak–something he seems loath to do. Unfortunately for you, a president is not elected by the ejaculations of a solitary birther–although, sometimes you’ll find a crop of mandrakes where they fall.

    (I doubt Tom will get that joke, but others will)

  123. avatar
    Saint James January 2, 2013 at 3:22 pm #

    Tom: The only reason people who doubt the validity of obama’s birth certificate are called “birthers” is so we might forget the word FRAUD! IMPEACH OBAMA!

    How is Obama a FRAUD? On what offense will you impeach him?

  124. avatar
    Saint James January 2, 2013 at 3:48 pm #

    Megastar: and having someone in the White House that has too many blemishes on his record is a “dire” threat to the American way…

    Please cite and quote your answer!

    You’re full of rhetorics…why don’t you quantify “too many blemishes on his record” that is a dire threat to the American way? What is the American way?

  125. avatar
    sfjeff January 2, 2013 at 3:54 pm #

    Saint James: How is Obama a FRAUD? On what offense will you impeach him?

    Clearly for being Obama.

    Or maybe for having a Kenyan daddy.

    It would never be about race….never…..

  126. avatar
    Dave B. January 2, 2013 at 4:28 pm #

    Oh, come on now– this mess of birther goofiness can’t be genuine!

    Megastar: Sorry to say that opposition to the blog owner who pedantically speaks and lures through deceptions many of the “useful idiots” that live in America into a false belief of eligibility for a POTUS.

  127. avatar
    Dave B. January 2, 2013 at 4:35 pm #

    I believe I’ve seen the report you refer to. It doesn’t have anything to do with the records actually held by the responsible agencies, but with forged documents being presented by individuals for fraudulent purposes, which would not be verified as authentic by the responsible agency. Comparison to the actual records would reveal the forgery.
    President Obama’s birth records, on the other hand, were acquired from the Hawaii State Department of Health, which verified their accuracy and authenticity. That’s a whole different kettle of fish.

    Joey: This birther even quotes from a federal government Department of Health and Human Services Office of the Inspector General report on birth certificate fraud to bolster his arguments

  128. avatar
    G January 2, 2013 at 10:52 pm #

    Wow. The sad little birthers really have their panties in a bunch over this blog post…

    What pathetic little bitter losers they remain…

  129. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 3, 2013 at 12:52 am #

    This comment came in the spam queue. I suspect that it’s being posted all over the place and reported as spam. Here it’s on topic (although not on this article).

    The YouTube video has comments moderated. I see one by ppsimmons. I left this comment:

    The video has its facts wrong. Those attempts, largely by Republicans, to amend the constitution, were not “just before” Obama ran for President. They stretch back decades and they were made for the purpose of allowing foreign-born adoptees of US Citizens to become President. Obama is not a foreign-born adoptee. None of these proposals even got out of committee.

    NBC IS FACT: If the NBC requirement is invalid as some, who claim to be experts, on this site attempt to postulate, then why would pathetic congressman make attempts to re-write the NBC clause contained in America’s Constitution?

    The fact that there were 8 attempts to modify the NBC requirements surely points out that the NBC requirements means what is written in the NBC requirement.

    Someone labeled this blog as a racist blog… he/she got it right, it is a racist blog.

  130. avatar
    Saint James January 3, 2013 at 1:18 am #

    NBC IS FACT: THE ELIGIBILITY ISSUE NEEDS TO BE HEARD IN A COURT OF LAW…PERIOD.

    That’s why you already lost 198 times! PERIOD!

    NBC IS FACT: Can anyone deny that the highest form of corruption in America’s history is now sitting in America’s leaders chair?

    Yes, by MAJORITY of Americans who re-elected the President of the United States of America Barack Hussein Obama.

    You need to show proof/evidence that the “highest form of corruption in America’s history” is the POTUS! Let me remind….you already lost 198 cases is court.

  131. avatar
    John Reilly January 3, 2013 at 1:31 am #

    They hope the President will be impeached for a variant of something familiar in the African American community:

    PWB

    Presidenting While Black

  132. avatar
    misha marinsky January 3, 2013 at 3:16 am #

    NBC IS FACT: That guy in America’s house is worst than Al Capone

    Obama is bootlegging? That’s news to me.

    NBC IS FACT: Can anyone deny that the highest form of corruption in America’s history is now sitting in America’s leaders chair?

    Sorry, Cheney and his Halliburton coterie are gone. You’ll have to do better to impress us.

  133. avatar
    bovril January 3, 2013 at 3:48 am #

    Lets see,

    Is he evading paying his taxes…….nope, we even gets to see his tax return…..FAIL

    Is he engaged in violations of the Volstead Act…..Nope……FAIL

    Was he kicked out of school at 14……Nope….FAIL

    Has he been a known memebr of various gangs in NY….Nope…..FAIL

    Has he spent time in prison….Nope….FAIL

    So come along Noodle Facts, tell us how (paraphrasing in the words of the Sesame Street song) how “One of these things is not like the other”

  134. avatar
    Northland10 January 3, 2013 at 7:16 am #

    NBC IS FACT: Someone else on this blog questioned the comment about the 1st governor of the American colonies. Well the first governor died after one year and was replaced by governor Bradford who is considered to be the first governor of the colonies.

    That would be the governor of the Plymouth colony in its early days. He was not the governor of the “colonies.” You really have not a clue about American history, do you. Putting modern economic labels on a small group of colonists who just arrived on a foreign shore is nearing the height of stupidity.

  135. avatar
    The Magic M January 3, 2013 at 10:34 am #

    Tom: i am not racist: IMPEACH OBAMA, ELECT CLARENCE THOMAS!

    Funny how Obama-haters always feel the need to state that there allegedly is a black guy they’d be comfortable with as President. Psychologically, the need to defend before being attacked usually comes from existing guilt – in this case, the knowledge the guy is racist and feels to deflect any mention of it before it even is made.
    Which is why I hope the 2016 elections will see a black GOP candidate. I’d love to see how birthers will handle the dissonance between a white liberal-commie and a black conservative. ;)

  136. avatar
    Saint James January 3, 2013 at 11:23 am #

    The Magic M: I’d love to see how birthers will handle the dissonance between a white liberal-commie and a black conservative.

    How about a black liberal-commie vs a black conservative?… Birthers will boycott the election!

  137. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    The problem with Dr. C’s analysis is the “birther nonsense” originiated with the Clinton campaign. It was not a right-wing conspiracy. If rumours are true, Bill was absolutely certain the facts would rise to the surface and insure a Clinton victory. When this did not happen, attorney Philip Berg filed a suit that went to SCOTUS. They did not hear the case.

    Berg’s arguments went beyond birth nationality to his time in Indonesia. He makes a convincing argument that Indonesia did not accept foreign students at that time and that Obama had to have given up US citizenship to even be enrolled in school. This leads to the contention that Obama enrolled as a foreign student at OC College and most probably every other school he attended. When did he renew his US citizenship? This question has never been answered. A copy of Obama’s OC application surfaced on the internet showing that he enrolled as a foreign student at OC. As with everything else concerning Obama’s b.g. he has used every legal means at his disposal to shut down the release of his records from all the colleges he attended, and his immigration records, and of course the very strange CT SSN # that was used on his Selective Service card.

    Even his defenders have to admit, Obama acts like a man with something to hide. He’s anything but transparant, and only released a certificate after Trump was doing serious damage to his credibility. When evaluating the sequence of events, you have to take human behavior into account, and Obama’s behavior doesn’t make any rational sense, unless he does in fact have something about his past to hide.

    The real issue here is that there is a very strong possibility that Obama is a thoroughly compromised President that has skeletons that could sink his Presidency. He knows it, and so do the people who control him. The birther issue is only the beginning. This man is, after all, a product of the most corrupt political machine that still exists in the nation, and you have to explain how a man can rise through those ranks without selling out to the machine in exchange for their support. It defies logic and reason to suggest he is an honest and honorable man.

  138. avatar
    JPotter January 3, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

    Brook: The problem with Dr. C’s analysis is yaddayaddayadda bait-and-switch

    What does any of your sincerely insincere (yet more eloquent than usual, thanks) birfy firf have to do with the simple question posed, and answered by, this article…

    that 21st-century classic…

    the intellectual heir to such gems of yesteryear as “Who shot JR?” and “Where’s the beef?” (tho not nearly as funny) ….

    “Where’s the birth certificate?”

    In all of your faux concern drivel, you manage to forgot to address this simple question.

  139. avatar
    Rickey January 3, 2013 at 12:43 pm #

    Brook:
    The problem with Dr. C’s analysis is the “birther nonsense” originiated with the Clinton campaign.It was not a right-wing conspiracy.If rumours are true, Bill was absolutely certain the facts would rise to the surface and insure a Clinton victory.When this did not happen, attorney Philip Berg filed a suit that went to SCOTUS. They did not hear the case.

    Berg’s arguments went beyond birth nationality to his time in Indonesia.He makes a convincing argument that Indonesia did not accept foreign students at that time and that Obama had to have given up US citizenship to even be enrolled in school. This leads to the contention that Obama enrolled as a foreign student at OC College and most probably every other school he attended. When did he renew his US citizenship?This question has never been answered.A copy of Obama’s OC application surfaced on the internet showing that he enrolled as a foreign student at OC. As with everything else concerning Obama’s b.g.he has used every legal means at his disposal to shut down the release of his records from all the colleges he attended, and his immigration records, and of course the very strange CT SSN # that was used on his Selective Service card.

    Everything you claim has been thoroughly debunked.

    There is no evidence that the Clinton campaign “originated” birtherism. There is no evidence that the Clinton campaign ever had anything to do with it.

    The claim that schools in Indonesia did not accept foreign students is a lie.

    There are no circumstances under which Obama could have renounced his U.S. citizenship while he was in Indonesia. He was too young to renounce his citizenship, and there is nothing that his mother or stepfather could have done to cause him to lose his U.S. citizenship. Since Obama never lost his U.S. citizenship, he never had to renew it.

    Obama has not “shut down” anything regarding his records. His school records are protected by Federal and state privacy laws, just as the school records of every other person in the United States are protected. Since Obama is and always has been a U.S citizen, there are no immigration records. And his Social Security Number is a red herring. As the Social Security Administration’s website states:

    One should not make too much of the “geographical code.” It is not meant to be any kind of useable geographical information. The numbering scheme was designed in 1936 (before computers) to make it easier for SSA to store the applications in our files in Baltimore since the files were organized by regions as well as alphabetically. It was really just a bookkeeping device for our own internal use and was never intended to be anything more than that.

  140. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 3, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    Sorry, I deal with facts, not rumors? Got any facts? No? What value is there in spamming the Internet with rumors?

    Brook: The problem with Dr. C’s analysis is the “birther nonsense” originiated with the Clinton campaign. It was not a right-wing conspiracy. If rumours are true, Bill was absolutely certain the facts would rise to the surface and insure a Clinton victory. When this did not happen, attorney Philip Berg filed a suit that went to SCOTUS. They did not hear the case.

  141. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 1:05 pm #

    Philip Berg was a Clinton supporter. FACT

    Indonesia allowed dual citizenship during the 60’s? Is this what you are saying?

    The OC College application viewed on the internet is a forgery? Yes?

    You believe the certificate presented by Obama is a valid legal document that would hold up in a court of law?

    Why wasn’t Obama’s friend and governor Ambercrombie able to find his birth certificate to disprove the birther nonsense — then it shows up 2 years later at the White House?

    The SSN # Obama used did not previously belong to a citizen of CT origin who died in Hawaii? You’re saying that was the original SSN # assigned to Obama?

    I’m interested in facts here, please. I’m not interested in your opinions.

  142. avatar
    Rickey January 3, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

    Northland10: That would be the governor of the Plymouth colony in its early days.He was not the governor of the “colonies.”You really have not a clue about American history, do you.Putting modern economic labels on a small group of colonists who just arrived on a foreign shore is nearing the height of stupidity.

    And of course the Plymouth colony was founded thirteen years after the founding of the Jamestown colony. Virginia had its own governor and its own assembly before the Plymouth colony was founded, so there is no possibility that anyone considered William Bradford to be the governor of the “colonies.”

  143. avatar
    Rickey January 3, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

    Brook:
    Philip Berg was a Clinton supporter. FACT

    So what? Did he have anything to do with the Clinton campaign? No, he did not.

    Indonesia allowed dual citizenship during the 60′s?Is this what you are saying?

    Dual citizenship has nothing to do with it. Obama was never, ever a citizen of Indonesia.

    The OC College application viewed on the internet is a forgery?Yes?

    What OC application on the Internet? Please provide a link to it.

    You believe the certificate presented by Obama is a valid legal document that would hold up in a court of law?

    You mean the certificate which has been certified by the State of Hawaii and which has been vouched for multiple times by officials in Hawaii? Yes, it is a valid legal document.

    Why wasn’t Obama’s friend and governor Ambercrombie able to find his birth certificate to disprove the birther nonsense — then it shows up 2 years later at the White House?

    Abercrombie was never looking for the birth certificate. He was looking for other records which he thought that Hawaii might have which would prove that Obama was born there. However, after he took office his was advised that none of the records which Hawaii has could be released by the state to the public.

    The SSN # Obama used did not previously belong to a citizen of CT origin who died in Hawaii?You’re saying that was the original SSN # assigned to Obama?

    There is no record that the SSN was ever assigned to anyone other than Barack Obama. What was the name of the person who supposedly had the number and died in Hawaii? What is your evidence that the SSN was issued to a person who died in Hawaii? There is no such evidence.

    I’m interested in facts here, please.I’m not interested in your opinions.

    We are interested in facts, too. The problem is that the birthers have no facts to support their allegations.

  144. avatar
    Scientist January 3, 2013 at 1:25 pm #

    Brook: Philip Berg was a Clinton supporter. FACT

    So what? If I declare that I am a Michelle Bachman suppporter, then anything I say comes from her right? Besides, suppose it came personally from Bill Clinton, does that make it true? Are you saying Clinton never lied? He campaigned pretty hard for Obama (perhaps you heard his convention speech) so he obviously doesn’t care. Nor do I

    Brook: Indonesia allowed dual citizenship during the 60′s? Is this what you are saying?

    No. But they did not forbid non-citizens from attending their schools, they only gave priority to citizens if the school was full. The FACT is that parents lie on school applications all time (using the address of a relative in a better school district, for example). Happens every day.

    Brook: The OC College application viewed on the internet is a forgery? Yes?

    There is no application viewed on the internet. Only a story dated April 1. Do you know what day that is?

    Brook: You believe the certificate presented by Obama is a valid legal document that would hold up in a court of law?

    Not only would it hold up, it would be accepted without question as it was when he got his passport, driver’s licence, etc

    Brook: Why wasn’t Obama’s friend and governor Ambercrombie able to find his birth certificate to disprove the birther nonsense — then it shows up 2 years later at the White House?

    He never said he couldn’t find it, he said he couldn’t legally release it. Do you think Govenors should follow the laws of their state?

    Brook: The SSN # Obama used did not previously belong to a citizen of CT origin who died in Hawaii? You’re saying that was the original SSN # assigned to Obama?

    The answers would be “no” and “yes” respectively.

    Brook: I’m interested in facts here, please. I’m not interested in your opinions

    I will accept your thanks written on the back of a $100 bill

  145. avatar
    Arthur January 3, 2013 at 1:25 pm #

    Brook: The problem with Dr. C’s analysis is the “birther nonsense” originiated with the Clinton campaign. It was not a right-wing conspiracy. If rumours are true, Bill was absolutely certain the facts would rise to the surface and insure a Clinton victory. When this did not happen, attorney Philip Berg filed a suit that went to SCOTUS. They did not hear the case.

    Here’s a link to rather extensive research into the origin of birtherism. It contradicts your belief that the Clinton campaign was the origin of “birther nonsense,” but you may want to read it nonetheless, if only to have a clear idea of what you’re trying to refute.

    http://birthofanotion.com/home/the-secret-origin-of-the-birthers

  146. avatar
    Saint James January 3, 2013 at 1:29 pm #

    Brook: Even his defenders have to admit, Obama acts like a man with something to hide. He’s anything but transparant, and only released a certificate after Trump was doing serious damage to his credibility.

    Who are these defenders? What is it in Obama’s actions that says he is hiding something? Obama released the COLB which is a certified copy from Hawaii…but you Birthers will never be satisfied.

    Brook: When evaluating the sequence of events, you have to take human behavior into account, and Obama’s behavior doesn’t make any rational sense, unless he does in fact have something about his past to hide.

    So you’re one of them “forensic expert on human behavior”? That’s something new! What’s irrational about Obama’s behavior? Ohhh I know! He can’t be president because he only graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard while being black. Because he is black, he must be hiding something about his past like being born in Hawaii?

    Brook: The real issue here is that there is a very strong possibility that Obama is a thoroughly compromised President that has skeletons that could sink his Presidency.

    Yes yes yes…Obama is a very compromised President that’s why he was re-elected with a dual mandate from the people and the electoral college since FDR. His handlers have done a superb job of hiding his true color. You see? Obama is not Black!

    Brook: The birther issue is only the beginning.

    I know…but Obama already admitted that he is related to superman!

    Brook: This man is, after all, a product of the most corrupt political machine that still exists in the nation,

    Which political machine are you referring to? Let’s see…the birthers is not even considered a machine and far from being political at that.

    Brook: It defies logic and reason to suggest he is an honest and honorable man.

    I know… illogical and unreasonable birthers think that Obama is far from being honest and honorable

    My sympathy!

  147. avatar
    Majority Will January 3, 2013 at 1:46 pm #

    Some fun facts on Birther and Truther Berg:

    In October 2004, Berg filed Rodriguez v. Bush, accusing the President of the United States and 155 other parties of complicity in the 9/11 attacks.

    This 237-page civil lawsuit included allegations pursuant to the RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) against The United States Of America, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Department of Homeland Security, George Herbert Walker Bush, George Walker Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald H. Rumsfeld,and numerous others, totaling 156 defendants in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.

    This lawsuit made hundreds of allegations including allegations that the Twin Towers were destroyed by means of “controlled demolitions;” that members of the FDNY were ordered, on instructions of the CIA, not to talk about it; that the FDNY conspired with Larry Silverstein to deliberately destroy 7WTC; that projectiles were fired at the Twin Towers from “pods” affixed to the underside of the planes that struck them; that FEMA is working with the US government to create “American Gulag” concentration camps which FEMA will run once the federal government’s plan to impose martial law is in place; that phone calls made by some of the victims, as reported by their family members, were not actually made but were “faked” by the government using “voice morphing” technology; that a missile, not American Airlines Flight 77, struck the Pentagon; that United Airlines Flight 93 was shot down by the U.S. military; that the defendants had foreknowledge of the attacks and actively conspired to bring them about; that the defendants engaged in kidnapping, arson, murder, treason, conspiracy, trafficking in narcotics, embezzlement, securities fraud, insider trading, identity and credit card theft, blackmail, trafficking in humans, and the abduction and sale of women and children for sex.

    Many birthers conveniently ignore that Berg was a 9/11 truther if it doesn’t jibe with their Obama bigotry.

  148. avatar
    Dave B. January 3, 2013 at 1:48 pm #

    NBC IS FACT: Someone else on this blog questioned the comment about the 1st governor of the American colonies.

    Well, here it is, all by itself, in all its glory:
    “The first governor of the American colonies and De Tocqueville made it abundantly clear a hundred or more years ago that…America has shunned America’s enemies by providing the written law to allow American citizens to preserve and defend their “REPUBLICAN” form of governance.”
    I guess the first question that pops into my mind when I read that is… what?

  149. avatar
    JPotter January 3, 2013 at 1:59 pm #

    Brook: I’m interested in facts here, please.

    Really? So the fountain spray of lies was a distraction meant to provide cover for your stealthy, fact-filled follow-up?

    Brook: I’m not interested in your opinions.

    Nor I yours. Now please, get back to be entertaining.

  150. avatar
    Dave B. January 3, 2013 at 2:04 pm #

    Brook: If rumours are true

    And if frogs had pockets, they’d carry switchblades and wear snakeskin hatbands.

  151. avatar
    Majority Will January 3, 2013 at 2:04 pm #

    Brook: “I’m interested in facts here, please.”

    We’re losing too many perfectly good irony meters today.

  152. avatar
    Dave B. January 3, 2013 at 2:08 pm #

    Brook: He makes a convincing argument that Indonesia did not accept foreign students at that time and that Obama had to have given up US citizenship to even be enrolled in school.

    No, he doesn’t. No such convincing argument exists, because the fact that the U.S. citizenship of minor children is inviolable and cannot be renounced contradicts and absolutely overwhelms it. That argument doesn’t “convince” anybody. It only encourages those who need no convincing in the first place. Like…”Brook”.

  153. avatar
    Saint James January 3, 2013 at 2:10 pm #

    Brook: I’m interested in facts here, please. I’m not interested in your opinions.

    How can you be interested in facts if your mind is already set. You’ve posted something that’s devoid of facts…. for example…

    1.

    Brook: Even his defenders have to admit, Obama acts like a man with something to hide. He’s anything but transparant,

    2.

    Brook: When evaluating the sequence of events, you have to take human behavior into account, and Obama’s behavior doesn’t make any rational sense, unless he does in fact have something about his past to hide.

    3.

    Brook: The real issue here is that there is a very strong possibility that Obama is a thoroughly compromised President that has skeletons that could sink his Presidency. He knows it, and so do the people who control him.

    4.

    Brook: The birther issue is only the beginning. This man is, after all, a product of the most corrupt political machine that still exists in the nation,

    5.

    Brook: It defies logic and reason to suggest he is an honest and honorable man.

    You’re far from being honest. Your post shall be dissected and parsed like a minsed meat.

    Let me reiterate my sympathy!

  154. avatar
    Dave B. January 3, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

    Brook: Philip Berg was a Clinton supporter. FACT

    So was Mara Zebest. What’s your point?

    Brook: Indonesia allowed dual citizenship during the 60′s? Is this what you are saying?

    Not me. I don’t give a hoot about what Indonesia did back then.

    Brook: The OC College application viewed on the internet is a forgery? Yes

    That one was easy to fix!

    Brook: You believe the certificate presented by Obama is a valid legal document that would hold up in a court of law?

    The actual paper document? Sure. Why not?

    Brook: Why wasn’t Obama’s friend and governor Ambercrombie able to find his birth certificate to disprove the birther nonsense — then it shows up 2 years later at the White House?

    Perhaps you’d better carefully review the actual sequence of events about Governor Abercrombie and the President’s acquisition of the copies of his birth certificate. I’d suggest a review of Hawaii’s statutes regarding access to its vital records, as well.

    Brook: The SSN # Obama used did not previously belong to a citizen of CT origin who died in Hawaii

    That one was easy to fix, too!

    Brook: I’m interested in facts here, please. I’m not interested in your opinions.
    Well, I’d love to see you substantiate some of your “facts”. I’ll spot you the one about Berg being a PUMA. What else you got?

  155. avatar
    donna January 3, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

    Brook:

    did you just fall off a turnip truck?

    ALL of your assertions have been addressed and re-addressed for over 4 years

    nearly 200 birther LOSSES ……… ZERO WINS

  156. avatar
    misha marinsky January 3, 2013 at 4:03 pm #

    Brook: Obama’s behavior doesn’t make any rational sense, unless he does in fact have something about his past to hide.

    I agree. I found Obama’s Kenya birth certificate. Fireworks!! Check this out:

    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2009/09/another-kenyan-birth-certificate.html

  157. avatar
    Hermitian January 3, 2013 at 4:16 pm #

    “Author: ASK Esq
    Comment:

    “Actually no, we don’t know that. What we know is that the State of Hawaii didn’t make the photocopy or scan that they were asked to confirm as a true and accurate representation, so they could not do so. For all they knew, the White House hired someone to painstakingly copy the BC by hand, for no apparent reason. But there was no way Onaka could legally verify it as a true and accurate representation, since his department didn’t make the copy. However, since he verified that all of the information matched what is in their records, that is all that matters.”

    Only the HDOH can make certified copies of original Hawaii birth certificates. It is illegal for anyone else to create a copy of a Hawaii birth certificate and falsely represent it as a certified copy. There are separate penalties for falsifying the certifying elements.

    By associating the WH LFCOLB PDF image with the letter correspondence which establish that Obama requested and received two certified copies of his original birth certificate from the HDOH and by representing this image as a duplicate copy of a certified copy, the MDEC attorneys propagated a fraud upon the court.

    There are federal rules of evidence that regulate the production of a duplicate copy (of an original document) in lieu of the original document to the court. There are no federal rules of evidence that permit the production of a non-duplicate copy when the party making the production has possession of a certified copy but withholds it from the court. This is a clear violation of the best evidence rule.

  158. avatar
    Hermitian January 3, 2013 at 4:34 pm #

    “Author: Yoda
    Comment:

    “Birthers have pushed this lie in a couple of different forms, that he spent over two million dollars “hiding” the documents (or more depending on the website) and that he has improperly used taxpayer money to fight these lawsuits. Since you focused on the second, that is what I will respond to.”

    The president has stipulated to a Federal District court that he requested and received two certified copies of his original long-form birth certificate from the HDOH on Apr 25, 2011. He has voluntarily produced two different forged LFCOLB PDF images to this same Federal District and associated both of these images with the letter correspondence supporting his request and acquisition of the two certified copies. He did so in spite of the fact that his cost for the two certified copies was only $14.00. Obama could stop this ongoing court case by simply producing the two copies to the Federal District Court. Nevertheless he continues to provide additional LFCOLB PDF images which have no chain of custody to the HDOH.

    In approximately 30 min. a U.S. Attorney will stand up in the Eastern District Federal Court of California to represent (at no cost to him) Obama in an eligibility hearing. Obama is being sued in his personal capacity as a candidate for President and not in his capacity as sitting President. Obama could end this court case by simply presenting his two certified copies that he is withholding from the court. His cost would be $14.00. This would save the taxpayers the cost of the legal representation provided to Obama by the DOJ.

  159. avatar
    Hermitian January 3, 2013 at 4:39 pm #

    “Author: INCREDIBLE

    Well said !!!

    Please don’t go away !!!

  160. avatar
    HKL (Keith away from home) January 3, 2013 at 4:43 pm #

    Brook: Indonesia allowed dual citizenship during the 60′s? Is this what you are saying?

    No that is not what anyone is saying. I do not believe that Indonesia does allows dual citizenship then or now.

    What we ARE saying is that it was (and probably still is) NOT LEGALLY POSSIBLE for a foreign child of Obama’s age to be granted citizenship in Indonesia.

    AND we are saying that it was and is NOT LEGALLY POSSIBLE for a child of Obama’s age to renounce, give up, or lose in anyway his U.S. Citizenship, especially when it would leave him stateless.

    AND we are saying that Obama went to school in Indonesia.

    THEREFORE: the assertion that Indonesia didn’t allow foreigners to attend school is WRONG.

    In fact the assertion is based on a misreading of Indonesia law that guarantees education to every Indonesian citizen but is silent on foreign citizens. It doesn’t say that foreigners are denied schooling, it just doesn’t guarantee them schooling like its own citizens.

  161. avatar
    Hermitian January 3, 2013 at 5:21 pm #

    Author: Andy
    Comment:

    “Why can’t it be a scan of an original. There is no proof offered that it was created in any other way.”

    If the WH LFCOLB PDF image was produced by scanning one of the two certified copies then why did they produce the final PDF file using Apple Preview to erase the Metadata which would prove that it was scanned? I’ll tell you why. The forger did that to cover his tracks because it was actually a digital cut and paste job.

    Of course the ultimate explanation that the Obots offer to explain all the obvious signs of forgery in the WH LFCOLB image is the imaginary file-size optimization step that they claim was applied to the PDF file. However these same Obots have never identified any optimization software product that produces one 8-Bit color background layer with grayscale and anti-aliased text and six 1-Bit monochrome layers with binary and aliased text. And then there’s that little problem that the pixel size is different between the background layer and all the other layers. The Obots will surely produce this “state-of-the-art-optimization package” when pigs can fly.

    And then there were the two white spot layers on the WH LFCOLB PDF image that was initially produced to the Federal District court before the MDEC attorneys substituted another LFCOLB image to the same court which does not have the white spots. This same new LFCOLB PDF image also did not have the white halos surrounding the text or the background image beneath each text character of the six text layers.

    Maybe the new LFCOLB PDF image was not produced using the same scanner as was used for the WH LFCOLB PDF image. That would be the one with the X-ray vision.

  162. avatar
    Hermitian January 3, 2013 at 6:07 pm #

    “Author: dunstvangeet
    Comment:

    “Actually, people have. I told you that Factcheck.org published 9 photos of the Birth Certificate on their website. 3 of them are of the back of the document.”

    Let’s just test Dunce’s logic here. That is the WH obtained the said COLB from FactCheck.org.

    Now FC’s COLB images are the only COLB images which show the unredacted certificate number.
    The COLB posted on the WH server has a redacted certificate number.

    The FactCheck.org photographs are in color.
    The WH COLB image is in Black & White.

    The FactCheck.org images include the basket-weave safety paper.
    The basket-weave background is missing on the WH COLB.

    The FactCheck.org images show both sides of the certificate.
    The WH COLB image shows only the front side.

    So you are asking any rational person to believe that the WH had the very COLB that FactCheck.org photographed in color on both siides.

    And then there is the matter of the chain of custody of the WH COLB which is non-existent.

    There are zero COLB images with 2008 creation dates in existence. The only creation date is in 2007. HDOH does not keep COLB copies on file. They can only produce COLBs upon request and cannot keep spare copies on hand for future issue.

    The claim that the WH requested and received the COLB in June of 2008 is therefore bogus. It would be wise if someone would remove this lie from the WH web site.

    If I were an Obot, I would hope that everyone forgets that the COLB images ever existed.

    Just some unsolicited advice for all you Obots.

  163. avatar
    The Magic M January 3, 2013 at 6:07 pm #

    Saint James: How about a black liberal-commie vs a black conservative?… Birthers will boycott the election!

    Which is why that would be too easy. The fun comes when you watch them tie themselves in a knot to keep their interpretation of reality (which disallows Obama but nobody else) up.

  164. avatar
    gorefan January 3, 2013 at 6:52 pm #

    Hermitian: And then there’s that little problem that the pixel size is different between the background layer and all the other layers.

    As you well know the pixel size difference is explained by Mixed Raster Content compression. The text masks (1-bit layers to you) were compressed using a lossless compression algorithms and the background color layer was compressed using a lossy compression algorithm.

  165. avatar
    Rickey January 3, 2013 at 7:20 pm #

    Hermitian:

    In approximately 30 min. a U.S. Attorney will stand up in the Eastern District Federal Court of California to represent (at no cost to him) Obama in an eligibility hearing.Obama is being sued in his personal capacity as a candidate for President and not in his capacity as sitting President.Obama could end this court case by simply presenting his two certified copies that he is withholding from the court.His cost would be $14.00.This would save the taxpayers the cost of the legal representation provided to Obama by the DOJ.

    Wrong again.

    First of all, Orly’s request for a temporary restraining order has been denied, and Obama’s attorneys did not have to produce anything other than legal arguments.

    Second, Obama has not “withheld” anything from the court in California. He was not served with any legal court order or subpoena which would require him to produce anything.

    Third, as you well know the birthers are claiming that Obama is ineligible even if he was born in Hawaii. His birth certificate would put nothing to rest, so spare us this “just show us the birth certificate and we will go away” nonsense.

  166. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 7:41 pm #

    Well, here is the question, Ladies… did Barry Soetero give up his US citizenship to attend school in Indonesia — yes or no? All we have to this point is speculation. We’re looking for facts.

    Did he use the SSN of a man that was born in 1890 — yes or no?

    Did he use the alias of Harrison J Buenel — a man who has used the same SSN # originating from Chicago IL? Why did Buenel use the same address as Obama and SSN?

    Why did Barry Soetero change his name to Barack Hussein Obama — and what does that name really mean?

    Why was Donald Young — an openly gay choir director of Trinity Church shot in the head Nov 2007 and killed along with Larry Bland and Nate Spencer (also members of Trinity) — all within a 30 day period when one Barry Soetero aka… Barack Hussein Obama was running for President.

    We wait for answers and facts from the Obots but we get nothing…..

  167. avatar
    Scientist January 3, 2013 at 7:53 pm #

    Brook: We wait for answers and facts from the Obots but we get nothing…..

    Brook: did Barry Soetero give up his US citizenship to attend school in Indonesia — yes or no?

    No

    Brook: Did he use the SSN of a man that was born in 1890 — yes or no?

    No.

    Brook: Did he use the alias of Harrison J Buenel — a man who has used the same SSN # originating from Chicago IL?

    No

    Brook: I am glad to have my questions answered. Sorry for bothering everybody. I really feel foolish

    OK. Now scram..

  168. avatar
    Rickey January 3, 2013 at 7:58 pm #

    Brook:
    Well, here is the question, Ladies… did Barry Soetero give up his US citizenship to attend school in Indonesia— yes or no?All we have to this point is speculation.We’re looking for facts.

    The answer is no. As has already been pointed out to you, it would have been impossible for Obama to give up his U.S. citizenship at his young age, and U.S. law is quite clear that there is nothing that his parents could have done to require him to give up his citizenship. Furthermore, under Indonesian law Obama was too young to acquire Indonesian citizenship. Those are the facts, but probably not the facts you are looking for.

    Did he use the SSN of a man that was born in 1890 — yes or no?

    The answer is no.

    Did he use the alias of Harrison J Buenel — a man who has used the same SSN # originating from Chicago IL?Why did Buenel use the same address as Obama and SSN?

    The answer is no. The birthers can’t even get the mythical man’s name correct. Sometimes it is “Harrison Buenel,” sometimes it is “Harrison Bunel,” sometimes it is “Harrison Bounel.” In reality, no one other than Barack Obama has used that SSN.

    Why did Barry Soetero change his name to Barack Hussein Obama — and what does that name really mean?

    Show me some proof that he ever changed his name to Barry Soetoro and I’ll search for proof that he changed it back to Barack Obama.

    Why was Donald Young — an openly gay choir director of Trinity Church shot in the head Nov 2007 and killed along with Larry Bland and Nate Spencer (also members of Trinity) — all within a 30 day period when one Barry Soetero aka… Barack Hussein Obama was running for President.

    Perhaps because they lived in one of the most dangerous cities in the country? By the way, even World Net Daily says that Spencer wasn’t killed – he died of septicemia, pneumonia and AIDS.

    We wait for answers and facts from the Obots but we get nothing…..

    We wait for rational thought from Brook but all we get are long-debunked conspiracy theories

  169. avatar
    Yoda January 3, 2013 at 7:58 pm #

    Hermitian:
    “Author: Yoda
    Comment:

    “Birthers have pushed this lie in a couple of different forms, that he spent over two million dollars “hiding” the documents (or more depending on the website) and that he has improperly used taxpayer money to fight these lawsuits.Since you focused on the second, that is what I will respond to.”

    The president has stipulated to a Federal District court that he requested and received two certified copies of his original long-form birth certificate from the HDOH on Apr 25, 2011.He has voluntarily produced two different forged LFCOLB PDF images to this same Federal District and associated both of these images with the letter correspondence supporting his request and acquisition of the two certified copies.He did so in spite of the fact that his cost for the two certified copies was only $14.00.Obama could stop this ongoing court case by simply producing the two copies to the Federal District Court.Nevertheless he continues to provide additional LFCOLB PDF images which have no chain of custody to the HDOH.

    In approximately 30 min. a U.S. Attorney will stand up in the Eastern District Federal Court of California to represent (at no cost to him) Obama in an eligibility hearing.Obama is being sued in his personal capacity as a candidate for President and not in his capacity as sitting President.Obama could end this court case by simply presenting his two certified copies that he is withholding from the court.His cost would be $14.00.This would save the taxpayers the cost of the legal representation provided to Obama by the DOJ.

    Why should the President give in to blackmail only to have birfers move the goalposts again?

  170. avatar
    gorefan January 3, 2013 at 7:59 pm #

    Hermitian: In approximately 30 min. a U.S. Attorney will stand up in the Eastern District Federal Court of California to represent (at no cost to him) Obama in an eligibility hearing.

    Blame Orly for that – she subpoenaed the President through the US Attorney when she should have subpoened him in person.

    Rule 45. Subpoena (b) Service. (1) By Whom; Tendering Fees; Serving a Copy of Certain Subpoenas.

    “Serving a subpoena requires delivering a copy to the named person and, if the subpoena requires that person’s attendance, tendering the fees for 1 day’s attendance and the mileage allowed by law.”

  171. avatar
    Arthur January 3, 2013 at 8:01 pm #

    Brook: did Barry Soetero give up his US citizenship to attend school in Indonesia — yes or no? All we have to this point is speculation. We’re looking for facts.

    When you find something other than speculation or misinformation I’ll be all ears. As it now stands, a child cannot give up his U.S. citizenship, and the same was true when Obama was child in Indonesia.

  172. avatar
    gorefan January 3, 2013 at 8:13 pm #

    Brook: Well, here is the question, Ladies… did Barry Soetero give up his US citizenship to attend school in Indonesia — yes or no? All we have to this point is speculation. We’re looking for facts.

    Fact – there was no law in Indonesia that required Indonesian citizenship to attend school. Please provide proof that such a law existed.

    Brook: Did he use the SSN of a man that was born in 1890 — yes or no?

    Fact – the same database that shows a DOB of 1890 also lists a DOB of 1990 for a SSN issued in 1977. Fact – the database has errors in it.

    Brook: Did he use the alias of Harrison J Buenel — a man who has used the same SSN # originating from Chicago IL? Why did Buenel use the same address as Obama and SSN?

    Fact – the Bounel name first appeared in the public database in 2010.

    Brook: Why did Barry Soetero change his name to Barack Hussein Obama — and what does that name really mean?

    Please provide proof his name was ever legally chnged in the first place.

    Brook: Why was Donald Young — an openly gay choir director of Trinity Church shot in the head Nov 2007 and killed along with Larry Bland and Nate Spencer (also members of Trinity) — all within a 30 day period when one Barry Soetero aka… Barack Hussein Obama was running for President.

    Fact – Trinity United Church of Christ of Chicago has a congregation of 9000 members. Please provide proof that the three deaths are first erlated and second related specifically to President Obama.

    Will wait for your facts but doubt that you will produce any.

  173. avatar
    donna January 3, 2013 at 8:27 pm #

    gorefan:

    my question is where have these people been for over 4 years?

    these BOGUS assertions were debunked/refuted ages ago

    there’s a term for them “uneducable”

    i would like to check to see if they have velcro on their shoes

  174. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 3, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

    Hermitian: “Author: Yoda
    Comment:

    Look at you! Making an effort to clarify who you’re responding to. A big step, Herms … tho I still can’t fathom your inability to master the ‘quote’ function here. Have you manage to get a Commodore 64 to run a web browser?

    Hermitian: “Author: INCREDIBLE

    Well said !!!

    Please don’t go away !!!

    Keee-rist, Herms, how pathetic. You know, you don’t have to be so lonely.

    Hermitian: Obama could end this court case by simply presenting his two certified copies that he is withholding from the court. His cost would be $14.00. This would save the taxpayers the cost of the legal representation provided to Obama by the DOJ.

    Ever the sanctimonious / disingenuous one, eh, Herms? All of the brifer memes are wisp of smoke meant to conceal the simple, central winger gospel: Obama is unacceptable and he must be erased at any cost. The sufferers of ODS aren’t prepared to see the light and admit error when once again proven wrong. Obama could presents his BCs, and the birfers would claim all manner of nuttiness to deny they were the same. “Bait and switch! Fraud!” they would cry. There wouldn’t even be a change of memes.

    Obama could load up all the birfers, and a few sane witnesses for posteriority’s sake, time warp the whole lot back to his conception, and then fast forward them all to the present a la A Christmas Carol, thereby witnessing his entire life …. and you know what? De Birfers would then become one unified, fauxVattelist chorus … like a barbershop quartet. :P

    As nothing can erase an entire Presidency, the birfers will never be satisfied. (Nor should they be!) As Christ said of the children and the poor, we shall have de birfers with us … always.

  175. avatar
    Dave B. January 3, 2013 at 8:52 pm #

    Brook: Well, here is the question, Ladies… did Barry Soetero give up his US citizenship to attend school in Indonesia — yes or no? All we have to this point is speculation. We’re looking for facts

    No, you have the facts. He didn’t, because he couldn’t. Little children can’t do that. Why that’s just silly. The rest of your allegations, thinly disguised as questions, have the same quality.

    Brook: We wait for answers and facts from the Obots but we get nothing…..

    Oh you do not. That’s just silly too. Not having your goofy lies affirmed doesn’t mean you “get nothing”. You get those facts you say you long for so. You reject them, because it’s not really facts you want. What you want is affirmation of your lies.

  176. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 3, 2013 at 9:02 pm #

    Brook:
    Well, here is the question, Ladies… did Barry Soetero give up his US citizenship to attend school in Indonesia— yes or no?All we have to this point is speculation.We’re looking for facts.

    No and he wouldn’t have needed to as there is no requirement even to this day that you have to be an indonesian citizen to attend school there.

    Brook:
    Did he use the SSN of a man that was born in 1890 — yes or no?

    No. There is no proof the social was assigned to anyone but Obama in 1977.

    Brook:
    Did he use the alias of Harrison J Buenel — a man who has used the same SSN # originating from Chicago IL?Why did Buenel use the same address as Obama and SSN?

    No Harrison J Bounel was the manager of the Trust that Obama had his house in. Harrison didn’t use the social as his own. Trusts are set up with a manager of the trust and the social of the person who pays the taxes assigned to the account. If you ever had your own financial adviser you would know this.

    Brook:
    Why did Barry Soetero change his name to Barack Hussein Obama — and what does that name really mean?

    His name was always legally Barack Hussein Obama there is no proof he legally changed it to anything else.

    Brook:
    Why was Donald Young — an openly gay choir director of Trinity Church shot in the head Nov 2007 and killed along with Larry Bland and Nate Spencer (also members of Trinity) — all within a 30 day period when one Barry Soetero aka… Barack Hussein Obama was running for President.

    How do you know any of those people even existed or went to that church? You’re basing it off some rumor you read on the internet. No proof any of them had ties to Obama.

    It’s funny how you claim to want facts but you brought none.

  177. avatar
    misha marinsky January 3, 2013 at 9:04 pm #

    Brook: Did he use the alias of Harrison J Buenel

    You are correct about that, but the name is actually Luis Buñuel. Google it, and you’ll find out the whole story.

  178. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 3, 2013 at 9:04 pm #

    Hermitian: The Obots will surely produce this “state-of-the-art-optimization package” when pigs can fly.

    They don’t need to, Xerox did it for them, years ago. I have a customer that send us identical compressed PDFs on a weekly basis. They are produced on a Xerox WorkCentre. Pretty sweet machines. Maybe you should try one out?

  179. avatar
    G January 3, 2013 at 9:29 pm #

    Yes. Simple as that.

    Your bizarre twisting of simple and completely normal phenomenon in order to serve your unhealthy paranoia is both fascinating and boring at the same time…

    Hermitian: So you are asking any rational person to believe that the WH had the very COLB that FactCheck.org photographed in color on both siides.

  180. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 9:32 pm #

    Well, well, we do have a tiny few on this board who actually know something — namely that Harrison Buenel and Luis Buemel are the same individual. Keep going, my friend. You are young in your studies, but you are getting there.

    As for Donald Young — well — the Obots of the world have to explain why 3 openly gay members of the Trinity Church turn up dead within a 30 day period Nov 2007 — just when our dear Messiah was running for Prez? These men met their unfortunate deaths just after Larry Sinclair stepped forward and openly accused Obama of gay sex and illicit drug use. This would not do for a Presidential candidate, of course, but as long as it was relegated to one man, you could just paint him as a lone nut. If any other former lovers stepped foward, however, now you have a John Travolta problem on your hands. This is why (Donald Young, Nate Spencer, Larry Bland) all had to die in Nov of 2007.

    We’re waiting for the anti-conspiracy nuts to provide us with proof to disprove our allegations backed up by police and coroners reports. Unless it’s common for church choir directors to be shot in the head execution-style, we have a clear assassination on our hands, and the only question now is — who did it?

  181. avatar
    G January 3, 2013 at 9:34 pm #

    As usual, you spout off foolish claims…and yet this site and its extensive archives, which have addressed these issues endlessly and in extensive detail, are right here in front of your face.

    …So you only “get nothing”, because you refuse to see, hear or read anything that doesn’t conform to your preconceived hate-based fantasy madness.

    Wow, what must life be for you sad bitter little sacks, so high-strung on your own lazy denial and unable to cope with the real world around you?

    And you wonder why we treat you all with deserved disdain and mocking….

    Brook: We wait for answers and facts from the Obots but we get nothing…..

  182. avatar
    G January 3, 2013 at 9:40 pm #

    What “coronors reports”?

    And Larry Sinclair is a long debunked and discredited scam artist starved for attention.

    You sir are a gullible tool.

    We don’t have to “disprove” your silly little stories as you have done nothing to “prove” them in the first place. The onus is on you.

    Any sad little sack can make up spurious stories and spread them on the internet…and that is all you little Birther lapdogs ever do… No one has to waste their time paying attention to your sick little works of fantasy fiction.

    Brook: We’re waiting for the anti-conspiracy nuts to provide us with proof to disprove our allegations backed up by police and coroners reports. Unless it’s common for church choir directors to be shot in the head execution-style, we have a clear assassination on our hands, and the only question now is — who did it?

  183. avatar
    Rickey January 3, 2013 at 9:41 pm #

    Brook:
    As for Donald Young — well — the Obots of the world have to explain why 3 openly gay members of the Trinity Church turn up dead within a 30 day period Nov 2007 — just when our dear Messiah was running for Prez?

    For all of your claims that you are just looking for facts, you have now revealed your true colors because only dedicated birthers refer to President Obama as “Messiah.”

    So you are just another concern troll who is deserving of all the ridicule which can be heaped upon you.

  184. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 3, 2013 at 9:45 pm #

    Brook: anti-conspiracy nuts

    You’re identifying yourself as a “conspiracy nut”?

  185. avatar
    misha marinsky January 3, 2013 at 9:49 pm #

    Brook: Did he use the alias of Harrison J Buenel

    misha marinsky: You are correct about that, but the name is actually Luis Buñuel. Google it, and you’ll find out the whole story.

    Brook: Well, well, we do have a tiny few on this board who actually know something — namely that Harrison Buenel and Luis Buemel are the same individual. Keep going, my friend. You are young in your studies, but you are getting there.

    SMH

    Our educational system is really falling apart. American culture: guns and Cheez Whiz, in a spray can.

  186. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 9:53 pm #

    Here is the coroner’s report for Donald Young for those who are interested in actual facts…

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/22344930/DOC-90-3-KEYES-v-OBAMA-Coroners-Report-Re-Donald-Young

    Now, church choir directors’s don’t get shot and killed in their own homes that often, except when a former lover of theirs happens to be running for President of the US. That’s when the campaign goes into panic mode and phone records that link Mr. Young to Mr. Sinclair prior to the incident…..

    The Obamaphiles can keep coming out here and screaming for more proof, but their voices become more and more pathetic as the thinking public understands the real truth of what is going on. We are dealing with a politician from Chicago, the most corrupt city in America. A city so corrupt, 500 young men have died to gun violence this year, and nothing is done. These are progressives, after all. Sociopathic, hive-minded people who have no interest in truth or facts. The conspiracy Docs of the world can run, but they can’t hide.

  187. avatar
    misha marinsky January 3, 2013 at 9:54 pm #

    Brook: we have a clear assassination on our hands, and the only question now is — who did it?

    I’d tell you, but then I’d have to kill you.

  188. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 3, 2013 at 9:58 pm #

    Brook:
    Here is the coroner’s report for Donald Young for those who are interested in actual facts…

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/22344930/DOC-90-3-KEYES-v-OBAMA-Coroners-Report-Re-Donald-Young

    Now, church choir directors’s don’t get shot and killed in their own homes that often, except when a former lover of theirs happens to be running for President of the US. That’s when the campaign goes into panic mode and phone records that link Mr. Young to Mr. Sinclair prior to the incident…..

    The Obamaphiles can keep coming out here and screaming for more proof, but their voices become more and more pathetic as the thinking public understands the real truth of what is going on.We are dealing with a politician from Chicago, the most corrupt city in America.A city so corrupt, 500 young men have died to gun violence this year, and nothing is done.These are progressives, after all.Sociopathic, hive-minded people who have no interest in truth or facts.The conspiracy Docs of the world can run, but they can’t hide.

    Do you have anything linking this to Obama other than your fevered imagination?

  189. avatar
    Dave B. January 3, 2013 at 10:06 pm #

    misha marinsky: misha marinsky: You are correct about that, but the name is actually Luis Buñuel. Google it, and you’ll find out the whole story.

    Brook: Well, well, we do have a tiny few on this board who actually know something — namely that Harrison Buenel and Luis Buemel are the same individual. Keep going, my friend. You are young in your studies, but you are getting there.

    Do we have another Marx Brothers fan here?

  190. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth, I will not be doing your research for you. There are plenty of links proving that B. Hussein Obama is a closet homosexual. It is an open secret in the Chicago gay community, specifically in Man’s Country. Rahm Emanuel has the same baggage attached btw….

    Here is a link from a Chicago-based reporter…

    http://hillbuzz.org/is-barack-obama-gay

    Really, Doc, you know what Chicago is. You know how utterly bankrupt that state is. Are you suggesting that a politician could rise through the ranks of that cesspool and not get any on him? Of course, Obama is gay. This is an open secret in Chicago. Do your research on Obama’s body man, Reggie Love. Fevered imagination my a___. I deal in truth, my friend.

  191. avatar
    misha marinsky January 3, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

    Brook: Chicago, the most corrupt city in America.

    Youngstown, Ohio is the most corrupt city. Google it.

  192. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 10:10 pm #

    Misha, Youngstown is the home of the finishing school for Presidential models… I assume you know what I am talking about.

  193. avatar
    Dave B. January 3, 2013 at 10:15 pm #

    Brook: I deal in truth, my friend.

    You are one spectacularly gullible individual!
    (or you’re just putting us on)

  194. avatar
    misha marinsky January 3, 2013 at 10:15 pm #

    Brook: There are plenty of links proving that B. Hussein Obama is a closet homosexual.

    Here’s a link proving Jerome Corsi is a closet homosexual:

    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2012/09/claim-corsi-hid-gay-life-to-write-pulp.html

  195. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 10:16 pm #

    Dave B — prove me wrong. We’re waiting….

  196. avatar
    G January 3, 2013 at 10:17 pm #

    Yeah, but all of your links, including the one you just showed are from ODS suffering crank sites.

    Face it – you folks have nothing credible. Just a self-referencing circle jerk of websites full of made up stories by crazy and bitter people. You live in a made up virtual reality of your own warped mental demons.

    Back in reality, ZERO connection between the autopsy you showed and Obama.

    …But hey, keep bitterly clinging to your delusions…sadly, it seems to be all you’ve got going for you in life…

    Brook:
    Dr. Kenneth, I will not be doing your research for you.There are plenty of links proving that B. Hussein Obama is a closet homosexual.It is an open secret in the Chicago gay community, specifically in Man’s Country.Rahm Emanuel has the same baggage attached btw….

    Here is a link from a Chicago-based reporter…

    http://hillbuzz.org/is-barack-obama-gay

    Really, Doc, you know what Chicago is.You know how utterly bankrupt that state is.Are you suggesting that a politician could rise through the ranks of that cesspool and not get any on him?Of course, Obama is gay.This is an open secret in Chicago.Do your research on Obama’s body man, Reggie Love.Fevered imagination my a___.I deal in truth, my friend.

  197. avatar
    G January 3, 2013 at 10:20 pm #

    Brook – You’ve yet to prove yourself credible or right on anything…

    …so why does anyone have to waste time proving you wrong, when you can’t even establish any credibility in the first place?

    YOU came here and started shooting off your mouth like any fool drunk at a bar. The onus is on YOU to back up what you say.

    Until then, we can continue to laugh and mock the crazy and stupid things your petty little gullible mind spews forth…

    Face it, you are only bringing upon yourself.

    Brook:
    Dave B — prove me wrong.We’re waiting….

  198. avatar
    Dave B. January 3, 2013 at 10:20 pm #

    Brook:
    Dave B — prove me wrong.We’re waiting….

    Sorry, champ, you haven’t provided a scrap of proof that you’re right yet!
    And we know better than to wait.

  199. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 10:33 pm #

    Okay, so if 3 people you were associated with turned up dead in a 30-day period — the cops wouldn’t suspect a thing would they? Donald Young was a church choir director. Dave B., please provide us with a list of choir director’s that have been shot in their own home in the past oh… let’s say 100 years. Mr. Young was shot in the forehead execution-style Nov 2007. His murder is unsolved to this day, but there are plenty of links between Mr. Young an Mr. Obama. Do you really want to know the truth, Dr. , or are we getting way to uncomfortable for you? Could it be that you don’t want to admit you voted for a fraud? You don’t want to admit that you got suckered in like millions of others. Well, it’s okay. The path to truth is long. I have believed a lot of official lies myself, so I know where you stand.

  200. avatar
    Majority Will January 3, 2013 at 10:37 pm #

    This birther drivel reads like the posts of the same bitter troll who posted the exact same crap a few months back.

    Evidently, a few small minded birther bigots are obsessed with homosexuality.

  201. avatar
    Majority Will January 3, 2013 at 10:38 pm #

    Ignore the troll.

  202. avatar
    misha marinsky January 3, 2013 at 10:39 pm #

    Dave B.: Do we have another Marx Brothers fan here?

    Someone got it – whew!

  203. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 10:47 pm #

    Link to Mr. Obama’s first real gay love Mohammed Chandoo at Occidental College with photos. Sorry, Dave B — you continue to be on the losing end of this debate. You offer nothing, and i mean NOTHING in the way of credible defense of this fraud in our White House.

    http://lgstarr.blogspot.com/2012/08/former-radical-activist-from-occidental.html

  204. avatar
    G January 3, 2013 at 11:07 pm #

    *yawn*

    Again…all you have are crazy blog posts written by random nobodies.

    Sorry, you gullible twit, but REAL sources are things like police and their reports and actual official institutions.

    Not random rumour mills of paranoia.

    *sheesh* No wonder your easily influenced pea-brain is so diseased… you are incapable of separating fantasy from fiction…

    Brook:
    Link to Mr. Obama’s first real gay love Mohammed Chandoo at Occidental College with photos.Sorry, Dave B — you continue to be on the losing end of this debate.You offer nothing, and i mean NOTHING in the way of credible defense of this fraud in our White House.

    http://lgstarr.blogspot.com/2012/08/former-radical-activist-from-occidental.html

  205. avatar
    G January 3, 2013 at 11:08 pm #

    Clearly. That says a lot about THEM. Obsessed being the key word.

    Majority Will: Evidently, a few small minded birther bigots are obsessed with homosexuality.

  206. avatar
    Brook January 3, 2013 at 11:11 pm #

    Yes, because heterosexual men are so comfortable sitting so close to an obviously effeminate gay man as we see in this photograph. LOL, Obama voters — I am getting through to some of them here. It’s not an easy thing to realize the fraud that has been perpetrated on our nation. It goes way beyond Obama. Mitt Romney had plenty of things in his past that should have destroyed his credibility, but these were never brought to light. We are dealing with a deception on a global and grand scale.

  207. avatar
    Arthur January 3, 2013 at 11:21 pm #

    Brook: We are dealing with a deception on a global and grand scale.

    I’m sure you’ll expose every deception you find, and I wish you good luck in your quest.

  208. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 3, 2013 at 11:23 pm #

    Brook:
    Yes, because heterosexual men are so comfortable sitting so close to an obviously effeminate gay man as we see in this photograph.LOL, Obama voters — I am getting through to some of them here.It’s not an easy thing to realize the fraud that has been perpetrated on our nation.It goes way beyond Obama.Mitt Romney had plenty of things in his past that should have destroyed his credibility, but these were never brought to light.We are dealing with a deception on a global and grand scale.

    Your gaydar must be so finely tuned that you can tell other gay men based on how they sit. How long have you been in the club?

  209. avatar
    Rickey January 3, 2013 at 11:24 pm #

    “Brook” has proven himself to be just another homophobic concern troll who has zero interest in the truth. Ignore him and he will crawl back under his rock.

  210. avatar
    G January 3, 2013 at 11:28 pm #

    Gee…you sure have issues with being comfortable with your own sexuality, don’t you?

    Why would any confident heterosexual man have a problem sitting close to someone different then them, gay or not?

    What are you, like 5 years old and afraid of getting “cooties” or something?

    …Sounds more like you fear losing control of yourself due to some sort of “closet” tendencies you must harbor…

    Brook: Yes, because heterosexual men are so comfortable sitting so close to an obviously effeminate gay man as we see in this photograph.

  211. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 3, 2013 at 11:30 pm #

    Rickey: Ignore him and he will crawl back under his rock.

    Or he might phone in the support of his thought-daddy John Drew … if they aren’t one and the same. Writing style and delusional attitude are similar.

  212. avatar
    Arthur January 3, 2013 at 11:33 pm #

    G: Why would any confident heterosexual man have a problem sitting close to someone different then them, gay or not?

    Exactly. This homophobia on the part of birthers is archaic and silly. In another couple of decades I hope such things will have the impact of calling a woman a “vamp”–a historical curiosity and nothing more.

  213. avatar
    Dave B. January 4, 2013 at 12:11 am #

    But have you nothing at all of any substance to present?

    Brook:
    Okay, so if 3 people you were associated with turned up dead in a 30-day period — the cops wouldn’t suspect a thing would they?Donald Young was a church choir director.Dave B., please provide us with a list of choir director’s that have been shot in their own home in the past oh… let’s say 100 years.Mr. Young was shot in the forehead execution-style Nov 2007.His murder is unsolved to this day, but there are plenty of links between Mr. Young an Mr. Obama. Do you really want to know the truth, Dr. , or are we getting way to uncomfortable for you?Could it be that you don’t want to admit you voted for a fraud?You don’t want to admit that you got suckered in like millions of others.Well, it’s okay.The path to truth is long.I have believed a lot of official lies myself, so I know where you stand.

  214. avatar
    Dave B. January 4, 2013 at 12:14 am #

    This is really, really starting to remind me of somebody.

    Brook: Sorry, Dave B — you continue to be on the losing end of this debate. You offer nothing, and i mean NOTHING in the way of credible defense of this fraud in our White House.

  215. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 4, 2013 at 1:41 am #

    Hermitian:
    “Now FC’s COLB images are the only COLB images which show the unredacted certificate number.
    The COLB posted on the WH server has a redacted certificate number.

    Completely easy to do, especially when they saved it as a JPEG. They opened up the image after they scanned it, and put a black rectangle over the certificate number. Would take me no more than 5 minutes to do.

    The FactCheck.org photographs are in color.
    The WH COLB image is in Black & White.

    Funny, the actual birth certificate photograph that I’ve seen with the redacted number is in color. You can see it here: http://s305.beta.photobucket.com/user/Polarik/media/BObirthcert.jpg.html

    That’s in color!

    The FactCheck.org images include the basket-weave safety paper.
    The basket-weave background is missing on the WH COLB.

    I can see it quite clearly.

    The FactCheck.org images show both sides of the certificate.
    The WH COLB image shows only the front side.

    The only information on the back side is the certification and the date. You can see the bleedthrough of the date from the back. They never bothered to scan the back.

    So you are asking any rational person to believe that the WH had the very COLB that FactCheck.org photographed in color on both siides.

    I just disproved 2 of your arguments. Your other two arguments are based upon a misrepresentation of what happened.

    And then there is the matter of the chain of custody of the WH COLB which is non-existent.

    Chain of Custody is not necessary for these documents. Read the Federal Rules of Evidence 902:

    The following items of evidence are self-authenticating; they require no extrinsic evidence of authenticity in order to be admitted:

    (1) A document that bears: (A) a seal purporting to be that of the United States; any state … of the United States; the former Panama Canal Zone; the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands; a political subdivision of any of these entities; or a department, agency, or officer of any entity named above and (B) a signature purporting to be an execution or attestation.

    Chain of Custody is for the purposes of authenticating the evidence. COLBs require no further authentication, so the chain of custody is actually worthless.

    There are zero COLB images with 2008 creation dates in existence.The only creation date is in 2007. The claim that the WH requested and received the COLB in June of 2008 is therefore bogus.It would be wise if someone would remove this lie from the WH web site.

    That’s not what I claimed. I said that the Obama Campaign scanned the COLB in June of 2008, not that they obtained it from the Hawaii Department of Health in 2008.

    I destroyed two of your arguments by actually linking you to an image of it. You can see that the original image is in color, and that there is a basketweave pattern clearly visible on it. The other two were based upon your misinterpretations of what I actually said.

  216. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 3:33 am #

    I’m late to the party, but I have facts and links. Here goes:

    Brook:
    Well, here is the question, Ladies… did Barry Soetero give up his US citizenship to attend school in Indonesia— yes or no?All we have to this point is speculation.We’re looking for facts.

    This question has 2 parts and an assumption. 1) Did Barry Soetero give up his US citizenship? No, as this wasn’t possible. Minors could not lose their US citizenship under the law in effect in at the time, and parents could not relinquish the natural born citizenship of their minor children. http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/adopted-in-indonesia/#obamalost

    2) Was Obama/Soetoro an Indonesian citizen? No, Indonesia didn’t allow dual citizenship. Obama’s mother never became an Indonesian citizen as she kept her US citizenship (as evidence by her US Passport applications) her entire life. http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/adopted-in-indonesia/#momandbarry Obama couldn’t have been adopted in Indonesia. http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/adopted-in-indonesia/#adopted

    Assumption: That Indonesian citizenship was required in order to attend Indonesian schools. FALSE. Both citizens and foreigners over eight years old were required to attend schools if they were available. In addition, Indonesians were banned from alien schools, but foreigners were not banned from Indonesian schools. http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/adopted-in-indonesia/#attend

    Did he use the SSN of a man that was born in 1890 — yes or no?

    No. This claim arose from raw data from a database inquiry by Birther Susan Daniels. Images are at the link. From 1988 to 1991, Barack Obama attended Harvard Law School and lived in a basement apartment at 365 Broadway in Somerville, MA. There are NINE entries for this Somerville address. All are the SSN number ending in 4425. DOB: 4 are 8/4/1961, 1 for 4/8/1961, 2 have no DOB, 1 has 1990, 1 has 1890. Note the numbers 1890 and 1990 do not have a day or month attached. Birthers latched onto the 1890 date, ignoring the clearly erroneous 1990 and 4/8/1961 dates. http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/social-security-number/#2

    Birthers further claim that the man born in 1890 was Jean Paul Ludwig. But Ludwig had his own number, issued in 1951. Obama’s was issued in 1977. http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/social-security-number/#2b

    Did he use the alias of Harrison J Buenel — a man who has used the same SSN # originating from Chicago IL?Why did Buenel use the same address as Obama and SSN?

    The name is actually Harrison J Bounel. A collections agent named Albert Hendershot ran a skip-trace report on Obama that showed an association between the name “Harrison J Bounel” and the address of the Obama house. The SSN was associated with the house as the Obamas own it via a grantor trust. The only place this name ever appeared was in that report, with a single date of 11/2009. Hendershot did no further research to find out what the association was.

    Why did Barry Soetero change his name to Barack Hussein Obama — and what does that name really mean?

    Obama was born Barack Hussein Obama II, named after his father. There’s an extensive immigration file on Barack Hussein Obama the elder. Obama the younger used the name Barry Soetero while living with his stepfather in Indonesia. This isn’t unusual in blended families. Other presidents have gone by other names in their youths. Leslie Lynch King, Jr (Gerald Ford) and William Jefferson Blythe III (Bill Clinton) both changed their names legally as adults but went by other names in their childhoods. http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/adopted-in-indonesia/#soetoro

    Why was Donald Young — an openly gay choir director of Trinity Church shot in the head Nov 2007 and killed along with Larry Bland and Nate Spencer (also members of Trinity) — all within a 30 day period when one Barry Soetero aka… Barack Hussein Obama was running for President.

    Nate Spencer died of a long illness. Larry Bland may have been the victim of a serial killer who murdered other gay men. Bland wasn’t a member of Trinity Church and there’s no evidence he knew Young or Spencer, he just happened to die at the correct time. David Young was mentioned by Larry Sinclair months after Young’s death, and hours after someone left a note on Sinclair’s blog about young. http://mpandgs.blogspot.com/2008/05/more-on-nate-spencer.html (I haven’t investigated this conspiracy theory in depth as it’s not really a birther CT.)

    We wait for answers and facts from the Obots but we get nothing…..

    Your definition of “nothing” needs work.

  217. avatar
    Keith January 4, 2013 at 3:47 am #

    Hermitian: Now FC’s COLB images are the only COLB images which show the unredacted certificate number.
    The COLB posted on the WH server has a redacted certificate number.

    All images, official statements, and extra really official confirmations show the same birth date and birth location which are the only thing about the birth certificate that is relevant in any way to eligibility.

    The FactCheck.org photographs are in color.
    The WH COLB image is in Black & White.

    All images, official statements, and extra really official confirmations show the same birth date and birth location which are the only thing about the birth certificate that is relevant in any way to eligibility.

    The FactCheck.org images include the basket-weave safety paper.
    The basket-weave background is missing on the WH COLB.

    All images, official statements, and extra really official confirmations show the same birth date and birth location which are the only thing about the birth certificate that is relevant in any way to eligibility.

    The FactCheck.org images show both sides of the certificate.
    The WH COLB image shows only the front side.

    All images, official statements, and extra really official confirmations show the same birth date and birth location which are the only thing about the birth certificate that is relevant in any way to eligibility.

    So you are asking any rational person to believe that the WH had the very COLB that FactCheck.org photographed in color on both siides.

    What we are asking is that you demonstrate that you have some semblance of rationality and recognize that all images, official statements, and extra really official confirmations show the same birth date and birth location which are the only thing about the birth certificate that is relevant in any way to eligibility.

  218. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 4:32 am #

    Brook:
    The problem with Dr. C’s analysis is the “birther nonsense” originiated with the Clinton campaign.It was not a right-wing conspiracy.If rumours are true, Bill was absolutely certain the facts would rise to the surface and insure a Clinton victory.When this did not happen, attorney Philip Berg filed a suit that went to SCOTUS. They did not hear the case.

    The birther nonsense did NOT originate with the Clinton Campaign. Extensive history from Loren at Barackryphal here: http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2011/06/secret-origin-of-birthers.html Many of the early birthers were “PUMAs” (ardent Hillary supporters), but there’s no evidence the Clintons thought Obama was born in Kenya. If Bill Clinton DID think that, he had far more effective ways of leaking such info rather than using a 911-truther. Berg’s case was filed August 21, 2008, Hillary conceded and endorsed Obama June 7th. Birtherism as we know it was born June 9th with the article in the National Review Online, and Obama released his COLB on June 12th. If the Clintons were behind birtherism, they were uncharacteristically inept.

    Berg’s arguments went beyond birth nationality to his time in Indonesia.He makes a convincing argument that Indonesia did not accept foreign students at that time and that Obama had to have given up US citizenship to even be enrolled in school.

    Wrong, as I linked to in my previous post. Indonesia did accept foreign students and Obama could not have given up his US citizenship.

    This leads to the contention that Obama enrolled as a foreign student at OC College and most probably every other school he attended.

    Obama had no reason to enroll anywhere as a foreign student. We know he had US student loans as people were convicted of accessing his records. http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/foreign-aid/#loans He easily qualified for US student loans. http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/foreign-aid/#need As a US citizen, he was not eligible to attend US colleges as a foreign student and wasn’t eligible for either US or foreign student aid as a foreign student. http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/foreign-aid/#student

    When did he renew his US citizenship?This question has never been answered.

    As Obama couldn’t have given up his US citizenship, he couldn’t have renewed it. http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/three-theories/adopted-in-indonesia/#oath

    A copy of Obama’s OC application surfaced on the internet showing that he enrolled as a foreign student at OC.

    Not true, there is no such application on the internet. There IS an April Fool’s Day spoof article claiming that transcripts were released showing Obama was registered as a foreign student at Occidental. That spoof has been debunked at Snopes, Factcheck, etc. http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/foreign-aid/#where

    Occidental College has said that no records have ever been released, and recently blocked a subpoena from Orly Taitz demanding access to the records (which cost Orly $4K in sanctions for legal fees). http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/11/taitz-phone-conference-in-mississippi/

    As with everything else concerning Obama’s b.g.he has used every legal means at his disposal to shut down the release of his records from all the colleges he attended, and his immigration records, and of course the very strange CT SSN # that was used on his Selective Service card.

    The same legal means are available to everyone. http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/other-stuff/#seal

    Even his defenders have to admit, Obama acts like a man with something to hide.He’s anything but transparant, and only released a certificate after Trump was doing serious damage to his credibility.When evaluating the sequence of events, you have to take human behavior into account, and Obama’s behavior doesn’t make any rational sense, unless he does in fact have something about his past to hide.

    Obama released his birth certificate in June 2008, in the only format Hawaii has issued since 2001 (COLB), 3 days after a major publication asked for it in an op-ed piece. Hawaiian officials have repeatedly said Obama was born there. After Trump started dominating the news cycle, Obama sought and received special permission to get a certified copy of his long form birth certificate and released it to the press in April 2011. What more should he have done?

    The real issue here is that there is a very strong possibility that Obama is a thoroughly compromised President that has skeletons that could sink his Presidency.He knows it, and so do the people who control him.The birther issue is only the beginning.This man is, after all, a product of the most corrupt political machine that still exists in the nation, and you have to explain how a man can rise through those ranks without selling out to the machine in exchange for their support.It defies logic and reason to suggest he is an honest and honorable man.

    Logic and reason says that Obama was born in Hawaii, attended colleges using US student loans, and has had a varied and interesting life. Logic and reason say that no one could reach the US presidency without a few skeletons in his closet, but no one could achieve it and be as evil as many birthers claim. BTW — not all anti-birthers are staunch Obama supporters. Some of us are Libertarians, Republicans, and Independents and supported other candidates.

  219. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 4:55 am #

    Brook:
    Philip Berg was a Clinton supporter.FACT

    Yes, but so were many other birthers.

    Indonesia allowed dual citizenship during the 60′s?Is this what you are saying?

    NO. We’re saying that Obama didn’t need to have Indonesian citizenship to go to school, and that it wasn’t possible for him to have had Indonesian citizenship.

    The OC College application viewed on the internet is a forgery?Yes?

    No, it’s not on the internet at all. Occidental never released it, no one has ever leaked it, and no one has ever linked to it. As of today, it doesn’t exist in any form that’s available to the public.

    You believe the certificate presented by Obama is a valid legal document that would hold up in a court of law?

    The PAPER version, the one Factcheck photographed and held, would certainly hold up in court. The PDF file wouldn’t, nor would a printout of it, but the actual certified document would. So said the judge in Purpura et al v. Obama. Also the official verifications sent from the State of Hawaii to the Secretaries of State in AZ and (IIRC)NE were accepted as fact.

    Why wasn’t Obama’s friend and governor Ambercrombie able to find his birth certificate to disprove the birther nonsense — then it shows up 2 years later at the White House?

    Abercrombie never looked for the birth certificate. He was looking for information he could legally release. Here’s everything Abercrombie has ever said on the topic. http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/abercrombie/

    The SSN # Obama used did not previously belong to a citizen of CT origin who died in Hawaii?You’re saying that was the original SSN # assigned to Obama?

    Correct. http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/social-security-number/#2

    I’m interested in facts here, please.I’m not interested in your opinions.

    These are the facts, with links.

  220. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 5:52 am #

    Brook:

    As for Donald Young — well — the Obots of the world have to explain why 3 openly gay members of the Trinity Church turn up dead within a 30 day period Nov 2007 — just when our dear Messiah was running for Prez?

    One died of a long illness, one doesn’t seem to have been a member of the Trinity Church. Obama is no one’s Messiah. He announced he was running for President in February 2007.

    These men met their unfortunate deaths just after Larry Sinclair stepped forward and openly accused Obama of gay sex and illicit drug use.This would not do for a Presidential candidate, of course, but as long as it was relegated to one man, you could just paint him as a lone nut.If any other former lovers stepped foward, however, now you have a John Travolta problem on your hands.This is why (Donald Young, Nate Spencer, Larry Bland) all had to die in Nov of 2007.

    Sinclair says he contacted Obama (by email) in the Fall of 2007 but was ignored. He contacted various media outlets in January 2008. Bland was murdered on November 17, 2007, Young on December 23, 2007. Sinclair posted his first Youtube video on January 8, 2008. Sinclair filed a lawsuit against Obama on Feb 11, 2008, and flunked a lie detector test in February 2008. NOTE — Young was killed BEFORE Sinclair went public with his claims. Sinclair didn’t mention Young at all in his lawsuit, the lie detector test, a video, his blog, or anywhere else until March 10, 2008 — hours after someone mentioned Young on Sinclair’s blog. http://sinclairwatch.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/debunking-larry-sinclair-in-a-nutshell/

    We’re waiting for the anti-conspiracy nuts to provide us with proof to disprove our allegations backed up by police and coroners reports.Unless it’s common for church choir directors to be shot in the head execution-style, we have a clear assassination on our hands, and the only question now is — who did it?

    It may not be common for choir directors to be shot execution-style, but it’s apparently fairly common for young gay African American men who were members of Adam 4 Adam to be victims of crime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam4Adam#Crime . Sinclairwatch is the in-depth resource for debunking the Young/Sinclair/Obama CTs. The bloggers has interviewed local people in the gay community who believe Young and Bland were victims of a serial killer they may have met through Adam4Adam. http://sinclairwatch.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/the-dog-that-didnt-bark-the-donald-young-lie/

    If Obama wanted to keep his alleged gayness quiet, why not just kill Sinclair?

  221. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 6:00 am #

    Brook:
    Mr. Young was shot in the forehead execution-style Nov 2007.His murder is unsolved to this day, but there are plenty of links between Mr. Young an Mr. Obama.

    Can you point us to any links between Young and Obama that don’t originate with Larry Sinclair?

  222. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 6:36 am #

    Brook:
    Here is the coroner’s report for Donald Young for those who are interested in actual facts…

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/22344930/DOC-90-3-KEYES-v-OBAMA-Coroners-Report-Re-Donald-Young

    Actually, that’s just a death certificate, not a Coroner’s report. The death certificate says “Multiple gunshot wounds”, nothing about execution-style. A Coroner’s report would have more details about the gun, location of the wounds, etc.

    Now, church choir directors’s don’t get shot and killed in their own homes that often, except when a former lover of theirs happens to be running for President of the US. That’s when the campaign goes into panic mode and phone records that link Mr. Young to Mr. Sinclair prior to the incident…..

    Choir directors don’t have a monopoly on virtuous lives. Here’s a Chicago choir director who brutally murdered his male ex-lover. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-12-17/news/0412170184_1_mentally-disabled-man-murder-found . Here’s a priest and his choir member lover, murdered and sensationalized. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall%E2%80%93Mills_murder_case How about Kim Scott, church treasurer — killed December 22, 2012 as she decorated her rural Geeseytown PA church for a children’s party, shot to death by a spree killer. http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/567065/Geeseytown-rampage-claims-three-victims–injures-three-state-troopers.html?nav=742 That’s just a quick Google search.

    Focusing on Young’s position as choir director is ridiculous. He was also a teacher (several were recently killed in CT, you know), a gay male, and lived in Chicago. There’s no evidence that any of those facts were the reason he was killed.

    The Obamaphiles can keep coming out here and screaming for more proof, but their voices become more and more pathetic as the thinking public understands the real truth of what is going on.We are dealing with a politician from Chicago, the most corrupt city in America.A city so corrupt, 500 young men have died to gun violence this year, and nothing is done.These are progressives, after all.Sociopathic, hive-minded people who have no interest in truth or facts.The conspiracy Docs of the world can run, but they can’t hide.

    I don’t think it’s the Obamaphiles that come across as pathetic. Also, Doc C, Loren, I and many others here have a huge interest in facts and the truth. Hence the extensive research to find original documents, contemporaneous reports, statutes and precedents. That’s all been somewhat lacking in your posts, btw.

  223. avatar
    Scientist January 4, 2013 at 6:50 am #

    The “Obama is gay” campaign seems destined to be as effective as all the other smear campaigns have been. That is, totally ineffective and in fact more likely to help Obama by motivating his supporters than to harm him. As usual, the American right continues in its blissful ignorance of where the country is today. Several states just voted for same-sex marriage. An openly gay Senator and an openly bisexual Rpresentative were elected (the latter from Arizona, of all places). I fully expect to see an openly gay President in the next 20 years. So, Brook, you just keep right on claiming the President is gay and watch his approval numbers go even higher. And speaking of approval #s, what are those for do-nothing out-of-touch Republicants in the House?

  224. avatar
    Yoda January 4, 2013 at 7:03 am #

    Brook: We’re waiting for the anti-conspiracy nuts to provide us with proof to disprove our allegations backed up by police and coroners reports. Unless it’s common for church choir directors to be shot in the head execution-style, we have a clear assassination on our hands, and the only question now is — who did it?

    Birfer logic at its finest. You make a wild accusation with no factual support, only speculation and innuendo, and then you expect us to provide you with proof to disprove the allegation, It doesn’t work that way. Based on your thought process I could simply say that you, Brook, are a crossing dressing nazi pedophile who does child porn on the side and then demand that you prove me wrong.

    In this Country, the accuser has the burden of proof. You have accused the President of murder, now go find the evidence to back it up and bring it to the police.

  225. avatar
    roadburner January 4, 2013 at 8:23 am #

    Brook:
    Mr. Young was shot in the forehead execution-style Nov 2007.His murder is unsolved to this day, but there are plenty of links between Mr. Young an Mr. Obama.

    brook, `execution style is considered to be being shot in the back of the head where the brain stem meets the brain, as damage to that area is in the vast majority of cases instantly fatal.

    shooting someone in the forehead is less likely to be as efficient, as the heavy bones at the front of the skull can (not always) deflect bullets, and damage to the frontal lobes is not certain to cause death.

    a gunshot wound to the face area at close range is normally the result of a threat to shoot someone being carried out, not an execution.

    executions are by design meant to be instantly fatal

  226. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 9:00 am #

    “gorefan
    comment

    “Unless of course it is your contention that when Dr. Onaka certifies that Box 6b on the White House pdf matches Box 6b on the original Certificate of Live Birth, he means that they have different entries.”

    He means that they are neither “identical to” or “is a true and accurate representation of the original record in your files”.

    He was asked to verify both and refused to do so.

  227. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 9:09 am #

    Are reading Onaka’s mind now, because that’s what it sounds like you are doing.

    We are presented with two options:

    1. Onaka says something plainly with the purpose of hiding information.

    2, Onaka used the language of the statute enabling him to perform the verification.

    I would say the first is an irrational, nut-case, overcomplicated twisting of what he said, and the second is pretty much what every government official does when performing their official duties: follow the regulations.

    Only someone desperately trying to deny the evidence grasps as straws such as you do.

    Hermitian: He means that they are neither “identical to” or “is a true and accurate representation of the original record in your files”.

    He was asked to verify both and refused to do so.

  228. avatar
    misha marinsky January 4, 2013 at 9:10 am #

    Brook: This is why (Donald Young, Nate Spencer, Larry Bland) all had to die in Nov of 2007.

    I did it. I killed them because they were all cheating at Solitaire.

  229. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 9:11 am #

    And why should I believe your rumors? Why do you believe them? Why would any rational person base anything on rumors?

    Brook: If rumours (sic) are true, Bill was absolutely certain the facts would rise to the surface and insure a Clinton victory.

  230. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 9:13 am #

    Why do you believe this?

    Brook: A copy of Obama’s OC application surfaced on the internet showing that he enrolled as a foreign student at OC.

  231. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 9:14 am #

    ASK Esq
    Comment

    “Actually no, we don’t know that. What we know is that the State of Hawaii didn’t make the photocopy or scan that they were asked to confirm as a true and accurate representation, so they could not do so. For all they knew, the White House hired someone to painstakingly copy the BC by hand, for no apparent reason. But there was no way Onaka could legally verify it as a true and accurate representation, since his department didn’t make the copy. However, since he verified that all of the information matched what is in their records, that is all that matters.”

    You just admitted that the WH LFCOLB is a forged document. Only the HDOH is authorized to create a Hawaii birth certificate copy and place the certifying elements on same. The WH LFCOLB purports to have the Hawaii state seal impression and the state registrar’s date and signature stamps. To falsely create these certifying elements is a Federal felony. There are separate crimes and punishments for forging the certifying elements in addition to forging the certificate.

  232. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 9:15 am #

    No Berg’s “arguments” were total and absolute junk based on misrepresentations of Indonesian law. I debunked this years ago in :

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/hollister-v-indonesian-citizenship-law/

    Brook: Berg’s arguments went beyond birth nationality to his time in Indonesia. He makes a convincing argument that Indonesia did not accept foreign students at that time and that Obama had to have given up US citizenship to even be enrolled in school.

  233. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 9:19 am #

    Nonsense. There’s nothing illegal about scanning your birth certificate. Federal felony? Bah. You’re just making stuff up.

    Hermitian: You just admitted that the WH LFCOLB is a forged document. Only the HDOH is authorized to create a Hawaii birth certificate copy and place the certifying elements on same. The WH LFCOLB purports to have the Hawaii state seal impression and the state registrar’s date and signature stamps. To falsely create these certifying elements is a Federal felony. There are separate crimes and punishments for forging the certifying elements in addition to forging the certificate.

  234. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 4, 2013 at 9:46 am #

    Hermitian: To falsely create these certifying elements is a Federal felony

    Forging a state‘s doument is a federal felony?

    Heh. You owe this board a case of TP. Someone has to wipe up your leakage. May as well be you.

  235. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 10:02 am #

    Hermitian:
    You just admitted that the WH LFCOLB is a forged document.Only the HDOH is authorized to create a Hawaii birth certificate copy and place the certifying elements on same.The WH LFCOLB purports to have the Hawaii state seal impression and the state registrar’s date and signature stamps.To falsely create these certifying elements is a Federal felony.There are separate crimes and punishments for forging the certifying elements in addition to forging the certificate.

    The White House LFCOLB is a PICTURE of an actual official birth certificate. It isn’t an actual certified document, it is bits in an electronic file. The seal and signature stamp are pixels on the image. The image isn’t admissible in court as it’s just an image. It’s not a forgery though, it’s a scan of a legal document. The White House didn’t forge the elements or the certificate.

    Onaka can’t say that what’s on the screen is what he sent to the White House as he sent paper and the image isn’t paper. He could say by law that the INFORMATION on the screen matched what was on the original record. So he did. Trying to claim Onaka is indirectly saying that Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii is a flat out lie.

  236. avatar
    Thomas Brown January 4, 2013 at 10:32 am #

    Yoda: …you, Brook, are a crossing dressing nazi pedophile who does child porn on the side…

    I am absolutely certain that you are correct that Brook is a complete pervert. How do I know?

    I heard a rumor. I read it on the internet.

  237. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 10:34 am #

    gorefan
    Comment

    “As you well know the pixel size difference is explained by Mixed Raster Content compression. The text masks (1-bit layers to you) were compressed using a lossless compression algorithms and the background color layer was compressed using a lossy compression algorithm.”

    Oh of course ! It’s got to be that MRC optimization again. The mystery one without a software product identity.

    How many MRC algotithms out of the 1200 trials done by the CCP forensic experts were MRC algorithms? I don’t know exactly how many but if the answer is only one then that is one more than any Obot has tried. You Obot forensic experts are going to look pretty silly on the witness stand when you have to testify that you have done exactly zero trials using MRC compression to recreate the WH LFCOLB PDF image.

    And I’m sure you can find the very one used by the forger which automatically set the nine rectangular object boundaries in the WH LFCOLB nine-layer PDF image. You know — It’s the one where at least the left and bottom edges of each rectangle coincide exactly with the outermost edge of at least one pixel of at least one outermost text character or white spot. And also the one where the top edge of each object boundary never touches a pixel.
    And this automatic object boundary definition was done on the fly during the image scan.

    And then there is that other little problem that the background layer has variable color image data beneath each monochrome binary text character of the text layers. So your humdinger of an optimizer would have to create the actual data read from these text covered background regions.

    Goooooooooooood Luck !

    No wonder the MDEC attorneys produced their new Obama LFCOLB PDF image to the same Federal District Court where they had previously produced the WH LFCOLB PDF image.

  238. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 10:40 am #

    Rickey
    Comment

    “First of all, Orly’s request for a temporary restraining order has been denied, and Obama’s attorneys did not have to produce anything other than legal arguments.”

    So you are claiming that the cost to the taxpayers for three DOJ attorneys to represent Obama was less than $14.00?

  239. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 10:51 am #

    Are you still babbling insensibly?

    Your comment “without a software product identity” is nonsense. Try:

    Autobahn DX
    LuraDocument PDF Compressor
    OmniPage – PDF Creator
    Nuance PDF Converter 5
    DjVu
    Xerox WorkCentre 5325 / 5330 / 5335 Copier/Printer/Scanner
    Abbyy FineReader

    Adaptive Optimization in Adobe Acrobat 6 and later is an implementation of 3-Layer MRC compression. This is why early tests I did with Acrobat yielded many of the same artifacts such as are seen on the White House PDF (such as parts of signatures on different layers).

    I personally have done several trials with MRC compression, just showing that you are making up facts without any regard for reality.

    What one should understand, however, is that MRC compression is a technology, not a software package nor an algorithm. Various Software and hardware implement MRC in different ways. Not all MRC implementations will give the same results; however, one of the foremost experts on MRC compression says that’s the compression technology that it looks to him was used on the White House PDF (See Woodman link below).

    See my article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/08/counting-crows/

    and John Woodman’s article:

    http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obamabirthbook.com/2012/09/genuine-world-class-computer-expert-evaluates-obamas-birth-certificate-pdf/

    People who know more than I do suggest that the White House PDF was scanned and compressed by a high-end photocopy/scanner such as the Xerox model listed above. How how many MRC enabled photocopiers did the Cold Case Posse try? I don’t recall any on Garrett Papit’s list. Would you like to make up an answer that suits you better?

    Hermitian: Oh of course ! It’s got to be that MRC optimization again. The mystery one without a software product identity.

    How many MRC algotithms out of the 1200 trials done by the CCP forensic experts were MRC algorithms? I don’t know exactly how many but if the answer is only one then that is one more than any Obot has tried. You Obot forensic experts are going to look pretty silly on the witness stand when you have to testify that you have done exactly zero trials using MRC compression to recreate the WH LFCOLB PDF image.

  240. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 10:56 am #

    Yoda
    Comment

    “Why should the President give in to blackmail only to have birfers move the goalposts again?”

    Because it would cost him exactly $14.00 to produce his two certified copies whereas it will cost millions more to continue to fight the release of same.

    Now Obama’s MDEC attorneys have stipulated to a Federal District Court that Obama requested and received two certified copies of his original birth certificate from the HDOH at a total cost of $14.00.

    The MDEC attorneys have since produced two different LFCOLB PDF images purported to be certified copies of Obama’s LFCOLB to the same Federal District Court while he withheld the two certified copies.

  241. avatar
    Rickey January 4, 2013 at 10:56 am #

    Hermitian:

    You just admitted that the WH LFCOLB is a forged document.Only the HDOH is authorized to create a Hawaii birth certificate copy and place the certifying elements on same.The WH LFCOLB purports to have the Hawaii state seal impression and the state registrar’s date and signature stamps.To falsely create these certifying elements is a Federal felony.There are separate crimes and punishments for forging the certifying elements in addition to forging the certificate.

    Of all the stupid, ignorant things you have said about the birth certificate, that may, be the most egregious. I work with photocopied birth certificates and death certificates all the time.

    So far no one who was involved in copying them has done any jail time.

  242. avatar
    roadburner January 4, 2013 at 11:01 am #

    Hermitian: gorefanComment“How many MRC algotithms out of the 1200 trials done by the CCP forensic experts were MRC algorithms? .

    which accredited forensics experts would they be? dont recall the CCCP actually having any.

    oh, and if youre thinking of who i think you are, read her opinion on trying to verify a document from a copy and digest that one.

    just trying to save you some (more) embarrasment.

  243. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 11:02 am #

    $14 is closer than the MILLIONS you claim.

    Hermitian: So you are claiming that the cost to the taxpayers for three DOJ attorneys to represent Obama was less than $14.00?

  244. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 11:03 am #

    gorefan
    Comment

    “Blame Orly for that – she subpoenaed the President through the US Attorney when she should have subpoened him in person.”

    Judge England gave her one to two weeks to serve him properly. Then we won’t have an empty chair anymore.

  245. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 11:04 am #

    Miracles do happen.

    Hermitian: Judge England gave her one to two weeks to serve him properly.

  246. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 11:14 am #

    “aesthetocyst

    Comment

    “Obama could presents his BCs, and the birfers would claim all manner of nuttiness to deny they were the same. “Bait and switch! Fraud!” they would cry. There wouldn’t even be a change of memes.”

    Well Aes you are operating under the fatal assumption that the two different Obama LFCOLB PDF images are both duplicate copies of one of the two certified copies.

    However it is a proven fact that the two LFCOLB PDF images are not duplicate copies of each other.

    Therefore it is impossible that both LFCOLB PDF images are both duplicate copies of a certified copy.

    And these two different Obama LFCOLB images were produced to and are in the custody of the same Federal District Court.

    Concentrate real hard Aes! You may be able to figure it out.

  247. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 4, 2013 at 11:15 am #

    Hermitian: hfcrstsgttbthtMRCptmztngnThmystrynwthtsftwrprdctdntty
    HwmnyMRClgtthmstfth1200trlsdnbythCCPfrnscxprtswrMR
    Clgrthmsdntknwxctlyhwmnybtfthnswrsnlynthnthtsnmrthn
    nybthstrdYbtfrnscxprtsrgngtlkprttysllynthwtnssstndwhny
    hvttstfythtyhvdnxctlyzrtrlssngMRCcmprssntrcrtthWHLFCL
    BPDFmgndmsrycnfndthvrynsdbythfrgrwhchtmtcllystthnnr
    ctnglrbjctbndrsnthWHLFCLBnnlyrPDFmgYknwsthnwhrtlstt
    hlftndbttmdgsfchrctnglcncdxctlywththtrmstdgftlstnpxlftl
    stntrmsttxtchrctrrwhtsptndlsthnwhrthtpdgfchbjctbndrynv
    rtchspxlndthstmtcbjctbndrydfntnwsdnnthflydrngthmgscn
    ndthnthrsthtthrlttlprblmthtthbckgrndlyrhsvrblclrmgdtbnth
    chmnchrmbnrytxtchrctrfthtxtlyrsSyrhmdngrfnptmzrwldhvt
    crtthctldtrdfrmthstxtcvrdbckgrndrgnsGdLckNwndrthMDCt
    trnysprdcdthrnwbmLFCLBPDFmgtthsmFdrlDstrctCrtwhrthy
    hdprvslyprdcdthWHLFCLBPDFmg

    You’ve been told very precisely how the file was created. But today is a new day, isn’t it?

    Revealing near total, willful ignorance of computer science while using interwebs is brazen irony.

    Here’s a start on what you don’t know: edge detection. You won’t understand it, will make an intentional effort to not understand it. Perhaps someday, when you’re ready, look it up.

    This tidbit is just a start. It’s the hardest part of the compression algorithm. What you’re hung up on here in your latest comment is mere cropping…of 1-bit images! That’s cake. All the algorithm has to do is determine the the coordinates of the 1’s and resioze to eliminate the ‘empty rows and columns of 0’s.

    Here, this will blow your mind: http://cropp.me/ …. a web app that ‘intelligently’, automatically crops full-color images. This is a simple process included in every image processing application. Smartphones can do this for you.

    Check the date. We’re not in the 1970s anymore. This is digital image processing we’re talking about here. Get your mind out of the analog gutter!

  248. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 11:18 am #

    “aesthetocyst”
    Comment

    Then it should be no trouble for you to re-create the WH LFCOLB image.

    Put up or shut up Aes.

  249. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 11:18 am #

    This is why Hermitian is in moderation (and why I may have banned him in the past). He just makes stuff up, and when he does he provokes lots of comments from others, generating lots of noise, wasting time, and adding nothing to the information on the topics discussed.

    One always has to ask whether we’re dealing with a hopelessly blind birther, or a wise-ass troll.

    Hermitian: However it is a proven fact that the two LFCOLB PDF images are not duplicate copies of each other.

  250. avatar
    Saint James January 4, 2013 at 11:30 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: One always has to ask whether we’re dealing with a hopelessly blind birther, or a wise-ass troll.

    I’d go for the second choice! Ban him!

  251. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 11:30 am #

    “Brook
    Comment

    “Here is the coroner’s report for Donald Young for those who are interested in actual facts…

    “http://www.scribd.com/doc/22344930/DOC-90-3-KEYES-v-OBAMA-Coroners-Report-Re-Donald-Young

    “Now, church choir directors’s don’t get shot and killed in their own homes that often, except when a former lover of theirs happens to be running for President of the US. That’s when the campaign goes into panic mode and phone records that link Mr. Young to Mr. Sinclair prior to the incident…..

    Right on Brook!

    And don’t forget Andrew Breitbart.

    The LBM swore that breitbart collapsed and died on the sidewalk in front of his home in Westwood when he actually collapsed and died on the sidewalk just outside the entrance to Starbucks in Brentwood. These two locations are only 1.5 miles apart and separated by the 405 freeway.

    And don’t forget Michael Cormier the Coroner’s Technician who died of Arsenic poisoning. His autopsy report has never been released.

    And don’t forget …

    And don’t forget …

    Just saying…

  252. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 4, 2013 at 11:34 am #

    Hermitian: Concentrate real hard Aes! You may be able to figure it out.

    If your rambling began to sound sensible to me, I would go home and sleep it off.

    I don’t want to assume which two images you have in mind. Provide links to what you’re confusing yourself with.

  253. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 4, 2013 at 11:45 am #

    [Real name redacted. Doc] you do know there are 10s of thousands of different MRC algorithms and Pappet a non-expert trying just a few thousand barely scratches the surface.

    Your fake experts look awfully silly trying to make claims on a digital document when the DOH has already confirmed the content of the certificate.

  254. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 11:55 am #

    “dunstvangeet
    Comment

    “Funny, the actual birth certificate photograph that I’ve seen with the redacted number is in color. You can see it here: http://s305.beta.photobucket.com/user/Polarik/media/BObirthcert.jpg.html

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    Way to go Ace! Your link is to Dr. Ronald Poland’s photobucket account. He re-created the Obama COLB from scratch and his forgery was so good it completely fooled Snopes.com. Please Please Pretty Please advise Obama to produce this copy to any court.

    You probably totally missed that I was referring to the WH COLB PDF image. You know that’s the one posted on the WH server.

    Dunstski !!! Just another clueless Obot.!
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    “That’s not what I claimed. I said that the Obama Campaign scanned the COLB in June of 2008, not that they obtained it from the Hawaii Department of Health in 2008.”

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    Well here’s the WH statement currently residing on the WH web site:

    “In 2008, in response to media inquiries, the President’s campaign requested his birth certificate from the state of Hawaii. The state sent the campaign the President’s birth certificate, the same legal documentation provided to all Hawaiians as proof of birth in state, and the campaign immediately posted it on the internet. That birth certificate can be seen here (PDF).”

    This links to the aforementioned B&W copy produced on plain white paper.

    Funny that the WH produced all of the letter correspondance supporting their claim that Obama requested and receive two certified copies of his LFCOLB but released nada proving that they requested and received a certified copy of his COLB in 2008.

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Nothing about Obama adds up.

  255. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 4, 2013 at 11:59 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Henry you do know there are 10s of thousands of different MRC algorithms and Pappet a non-expert trying just a few thousand barely scratches the surface.

    Your fake experts look awfully silly trying to make claims on a digital document when the DOH has already confirmed the content of the certificate.

    You’re giving them way too much credit.

    I can picture it now. A couple of boobs mindlessly scanning … something? (Pretty sure the WH didn’t loan out a copy of the LFBC. What were they using for an analog?) over and over again, on the same scanner (whatever they just happened to have), playing with the settings on the scanner, and then opening the scanned files and resaving them in various formats from various apps. And keeping a tally on the wall. Just trying whatever at random—”Gosh, that’s not it.”—Making no effort to identify what they should be trying, having no clue how to go about that, having no incentive to do so. They had their desired conclusion in mind. A sincere effort would have been less effort, but would have run the risk of being proven wrong.

    I suspect this scenario also gives them way too much credit.

    This is what children do, when they don’t want to do an assigned task, something new that requires them to puzzle something out. Parents will now what I’m talking about. You’ve got to take them by the hand, and show them, eliminating their excuses.

  256. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 11:59 am #

    Since you have been extremely negligent in specifying which documents you are talking about, it is no wonder that people don’t know what documents you are talking about.

    Hermitian: You probably totally missed that I was referring to the WH COLB PDF image. You know that’s the one posted on the WH server.

  257. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

    I may have to. I hate doing that. Extra work for me.

    Saint James: I’d go for the second choice! Ban him!

  258. avatar
    Arthur January 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm #

    Hermitian: And don’t forget Michael Cormier the Coroner’s Technician who died of Arsenic poisoning. His autopsy report has never been released.

    If the autopsy report was never released, how do you know he died of arsenic poisoning?

    I don’t know who Michael Cormier is; some kind of Horst Wessel look-a-like in the birther book of martyrs?

  259. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm #

    I distinctly recall Mike Zullo saying that none was willing to work with them.

    roadburner: which accredited forensics experts would they be? dont recall the CCCP actually having any.

  260. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm #

    Hermitian: Then it should be no trouble for you to re-create the WH LFCOLB image.

    Put up or shut up Aes.

    Assuming you are responding to my comment at 11:15am, I take that as yet another white flag for my collection. Too easy, Herms.

    C’mon, man, all you have to do is make stuff up. That’s easy. It should be impossible to make you accept reality. You have to choose to.

    Care to try again? Dance, Herms, dance!

  261. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 4, 2013 at 12:05 pm #

    Here we go again Hermy went on and on Amazon about his conflicting conspiracy theories around Breitbart’s natural heart attack ranging from a Klingon Death Ray, CIA Heart attack gun, jagged street lamps of doom and access cover plates in conjunction with starbucks workers wetting the sidewalk

  262. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 12:08 pm #

    “Keith
    Comment

    “All images, official statements, and extra really official confirmations show the same birth date and birth location which are the only thing about the birth certificate that is relevant in any way to eligibility.”

    So what you are saying is that any old COLB image will do and it doesn’t even have to be a certified copy. And we don’t really need a chain of custody or certifying elements on the image like the WH COLB PDF image which has neither the raised seal impression nor the state registrar’s signature and date stamps.

    And then we are supposed to just buy that WH baloney (bologna) that the Campaign requested and received this very COLB in June 2008. Even though there is no COLB image with a 2008 creation date in existence anywhere on the internet.

    Just checking to see what you are asking the public to believe.

    What was that that Reagan said? Trust but Verify… Hmmmmmmmmm…

  263. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 4, 2013 at 12:08 pm #

    Arthur: I don’t know who Michael Cormier is; some kind of Horst Wessel look-a-like in the birther book of martyrs?

    Oh, please don’t ask, it’s off-topic. He rambled on Amazon for weeks about this.

  264. avatar
    Arthur January 4, 2013 at 12:15 pm #

    aesthetocyst: Oh, please don’t ask, it’s off-topic. He rambled on Amazon for weeks about this.

    Listen Hermitian, never mind about arsenic man–it’s not that important.

  265. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

    Mr. Conspiracy
    Comment

    “Are reading Onaka’s mind now, because that’s what it sounds like you are doing.

    “We are presented with two options:

    “1. Onaka says something plainly with the purpose of hiding information.

    “2, Onaka used the language of the statute enabling him to perform the verification.

    “I would say the first is an irrational, nut-case, overcomplicated twisting of what he said, and the second is pretty much what every government official does when performing their official duties: follow the regulations.”

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    But you left out:

    3. Onanka is using carefully chosen weasel words to avoid verifying what was requested.

    His behavior is totally consistent with the past pattern of behavior of the HDOH and Hawaii AG personnel which is to dodge every legitimate request for the facts and circumstances of Obama’s birth.

    What part of the phrase “is identical to” do you not grasp?
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  266. avatar
    Arthur January 4, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    Speaking of slippery conspiracy theories . . . remember in “Red October” when Capt. Ramius concocts a ruse using spilled coffee to make it seem like Ivan Putin (Putin!!??), the ships political officer, had slipped and accidentally suffered a fatal head injury?

    Doesn’t this sound like something that could explain Hillary Clinton’s recent fall and concusion? Who was trying to do her in, and why???!!! Certainly there must be a connection to birth certificates . . . somehow.

    john? Hermitian?

  267. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 4, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

    On the day Breitbart died of a heart attack thousands of others all over the world died of a heart attack obviously this was the result of a miscalibration of the CIA heart attack gun.

  268. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 12:36 pm #

    No, that’s my number 1 rephrased using nastier language.

    Hermitian: But you left out:

    3. Onanka is using carefully chosen weasel words to avoid verifying what was requested.

  269. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 12:48 pm #

    Garrett Papit used several software packages to create PDF’s. One problem with his methodology is that he mostly used public domain software or software that offered a downloadable trial version. The real high-end commercial stuff and the high-end scanner copiers were not tested.

    It’s like I pointed out in my article, Counting Crows. Just because you count a bunch of crows that are black doesn’t mean that none are white, and indeed there are white crows. And the birthers ignore the fact that many of the artifacts that the have claimed to be conclusive proof of forgery have actually been reproduced. This doesn’t prove the White House PDF is authentic, but it proves that birther image gurus don’t know what they are talking about.

    aesthetocyst: You’re giving them way too much credit.

    I can picture it now. A couple of boobs mindlessly scanning … something?

  270. avatar
    aesthetocyst January 4, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Where did the President say the COLB was “requested” in 2008?

    It would have been needed for basic campaign prep. Candidates have to get everything squared away with Party, and be prepared to meet state party primary / caucus filing requirements.

    Now when did he start campaigning for nomination …. 2007. What date is on the certificate? Well, golly, 2007. He also vacationed in Hawaii that year. How convenient.

    I would guess that Obama request a copy for the campaign’s use. Only an idiot would turn over his personal copy of a vital document.

  271. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 12:56 pm #

    Both the Certificate of Live Birth (long form), and the Certification of Live Birth (short form) are “COLBs” and they are both equally “prima facie evidence of the fact of birth.”

    Hawaii no longer issues either the long form or the short form titled “Certification”. The short form now says “Certificate” for which I believe we may “thank” the birthers.

    donna: and may i add that ONLY the COLB “serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding” HRS 338-13(b), 338-19

  272. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 1:06 pm #

    Hermitian:
    You probably totally missed that I was referring to the WH COLB PDF image.You know that’s the one posted on the WH server.

    The PDF posted on the White House server is at http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate.pdf
    It is indeed black and white. HOWEVER, at the top is printed Page 1 of 1, at the bottom is printed the date 4/25/2011 and the link http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg. (This format is similar to how I have my own printer set.) The Snopes link is a color version.

    The long form is posted at http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf Note the exact same format in the file name.

    My theory on the work flow: Someone asked a flunky in the Press Office to make packets for the Press Conference on April 27. Flunky found the Snopes JPG online, printed it, copied the actual certificate from Hawaii when it arrived, then put the two pieces of paper together and hit the copy/collate/staple buttons for 50 copies. Also created the PDF files at nearly the same time. The Web Flunky then uploaded the files and linked them in the blog post.

    The B&W version isn’t the same version as the one posted on Fight the Smears or Daily Kos, or anywhere I could find before 4/25/2011. Wikimedia has the DailyKos version here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BarackObamaCertificationOfLiveBirthHawaii.jpg as the FTS site is no longer active.

  273. avatar
    Sudoku January 4, 2013 at 1:11 pm #

    Remind me, what were the certifying elements, chain of custody, etc., for the birth certificate of Reagan (or ANY other US president or presidential candidate).

    What part of the phrase “in accordance with statute” do you not grasp?

    Hermitian: What was that that Reagan said? Trust but Verify… Hmmmmmmmmm…

    Hermitian: What part of the phrase “is identical to” do you not grasp?

  274. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:: Where did the President say the COLB was “requested” in 2008?

    The President never said that. Dan Pfeiffer did (or more probably Pfeiffer’s web monkey) on his April 27, 2011 blog post that featured the press conference and the two birth certificates. http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

  275. avatar
    Whatever4 January 4, 2013 at 1:39 pm #

    Sudoku:
    Remind me, what were the certifying elements, chain of custody, etc., for the birth certificate of Reagan (or ANY other US president or presidential candidate).

    What part of the phrase “in accordance with statute” do you not grasp?

    Why is the chain of custody needed when the originator of the document verifies that the information on an image of the document matches what’s in the original record? If the President needed to produce a certified copy of a document with a formal chain of custody (like the verifications sent to AZ and KS), it would happen.

  276. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 1:53 pm #

    “Dr. Conspiracy
    Comment

    “Hawaii no longer issues either the long form or the short form titled “Certification”. The short form now says “Certificate” for which I believe we may “thank” the birthers.”

    So you are saying that a HDOH change of policy that you claim was invoked by the HDOH in 2001 (without public comment) and that was actually enforced in 2011 for Obama’s benefit should be blamed on the birthers?

    It figures.

  277. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 2:51 pm #

    I investigated the claim that Snopes pointed to a certificate created by Polland. Polland, at one time, had an authentic Obama campaign-released COLB in his Photobucket account, and then changed it for something else, at least once and possibly twice.

    I spent quite a lot of research on this topic and concluded that there is no credible evidence that the COLB in the 2011 White House Packet was a Polland-created image. One can clearly see, however, from the file name at the bottom of the White House screen print was to a file at Snopes, not at Polland’s Photobucket account.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/08/polarik-punks-white-house/

    Hermitian: Way to go Ace! Your link is to Dr. Ronald Poland’s photobucket account. He re-created the Obama COLB from scratch and his forgery was so good it completely fooled Snopes.com. Please Please Pretty Please advise Obama to produce this copy to any court.

  278. avatar
    Sudoku January 4, 2013 at 3:12 pm #

    Exactly. I just like the irony of Hermy quoting Reagan’s “trust but verify” with regard to Obama’s BC, yet he never saw Reagan’s, or any other president’s BC.

    Ah, those birthers and their Alice in Wonderland, inside out, bass ackwards attempts at logic.

    Whatever4: Why is the chain of custody needed when the originator of the document verifies that the information on an image of the document matches what’s in the original record? If the President needed to produce a certified copy of a document with a formal chain of custody (like the verifications sent to AZ and KS), it would happen.

  279. avatar
    Daniel January 4, 2013 at 3:19 pm #

    I wonder how many times Hermitan can be shown wrong in one thread before he manages to catch that most elusive of social insects…. a clue…

  280. avatar
    Dave January 4, 2013 at 3:35 pm #

    I will turn a deaf ear to those who are sick of this story and plead to not hear it again, for the benefit of anyone who might want to know.

    Michael Cormier was a forensic technician working for LA County. Breitbart died in LA County. Michael Cormier died a couple months later. Media accounts said it was of arsenic poisoning (I mean credible media). Cormier had nothing to do with the Breitbart case.

    Naturnally, all the wingnut blogs grabbed their tin-foil hats and had a collective fit.

    Hermitian:

    And don’t forget Michael Cormier the Coroner’s Technician who died of Arsenic poisoning.His autopsy report has never been released.

  281. avatar
    LW January 4, 2013 at 3:36 pm #

    Hermitian: why did they produce the final PDF file using Apple Preview

    Because the most likely process involved someone in the WH using a copier with built-in MRC capabilities to send a scanned image in PDF format via email.

    On a Mac, opening a PDF attachment in email will open it in Preview. When Preview opens a PDF document, it automatically refactors it. There’s no way to not have that happen.

  282. avatar
    gorefan January 4, 2013 at 3:48 pm #

    Hermitian:
    gorefan
    Comment

    “As you well know the pixel size difference is explained by Mixed Raster Content compression. The text masks (1-bit layers to you) were compressed using a lossless compression algorithms and the background color layer was compressed using a lossy compression algorithm.”

    Oh of course ! It’s got to be that MRC optimization again.The mystery one without a software product identity.

    How many MRC algotithms out of the 1200 trials done by the CCP forensic experts were MRC algorithms?I don’t know exactly how many but if the answer is only one then that is one more than any Obot has tried.You Obot forensic experts are going to look pretty silly on the witness stand when you have to testify that you have done exactly zero trials using MRC compression to recreate the WH LFCOLB PDF image.

    And I’m sure you can find the very one used by the forger which automatically set the nine rectangular object boundaries in the WH LFCOLB nine-layer PDF image.You know — It’s the one where at least the left and bottom edges of each rectangle coincide exactly with the outermost edge of at least one pixel of at least one outermost text character or white spot.And also the one where the top edge of each object boundary never touches a pixel.
    And this automatic object boundary definition was done on the fly during the image scan.

    And then there is that other little problem that the background layer has variable color image data beneath each monochrome binary text character of the text layers.So your humdinger of an optimizer would have to create the actual data read from these text covered background regions.

    Goooooooooooood Luck !

    No wonder the MDEC attorneys produced their new Obama LFCOLB PDF image to the same Federal District Court where they had previously produced the WH LFCOLB PDF image.

    OMG, that was debunked by GSGS,

    “The left and bottom borders of the layer-boxes are always touched by pixels and the right
    border is touched in img1 and img7. If you calculate (x,y) of the position, where that layer
    fits into the whole picture and add to it the size of the layer-pic, then you get 0 (mod 8 )
    in all 16 cases. So this choice was also likely done by a computer, not a human.

    Apparently the program selected the letters/components that did match some color-range
    and grouped them into a layer.
    The borders of those layers were always aligned to the 8×8-grid of the whole picture.
    Then the empty lines at the left and bottom (bottom and right before rotating – all the
    pics were rotated for some reason) were deleted to save space.
    This was independent of the 8×8 blocks used for the DCT compression, though. To match that alignment we would need 16×16-blocks for the text-layers because of the double-resolution, but it doesn’t align to 16×16″

    http://letsrollforums.com/birth-certificate-analysis-t28401p2.html

  283. avatar
    Horus January 4, 2013 at 3:49 pm #

    Brook:
    Yes, because heterosexual men are so comfortable sitting so close to an obviously effeminate gay man as we see in this photograph.LOL, Obama voters — I am getting through to some of them here.It’s not an easy thing to realize the fraud that has been perpetrated on our nation.It goes way beyond Obama.Mitt Romney had plenty of things in his past that should have destroyed his credibility, but these were never brought to light.We are dealing with a deception on a global and grand scale.

    I happen to have several gay friends and have no problem sitting next to them, even hugging them.
    Just because they are gay does not make them contagious.
    You’re delusional if you think anyone here who voted for Obama agrees with your ranting.

  284. avatar
    Majority Will January 4, 2013 at 3:58 pm #

    Horus: I happen to have several gay friends and have no problem sitting next to them, even hugging them.
    Just because they are gay does not make them contagious.
    You’re delusional if you think anyone here who voted for Obama agrees with your ranting.

    Or anyone rational and mentally stable who didn’t vote for Obama.

    This birther bigot has serious issues.

  285. avatar
    Daniel January 4, 2013 at 3:59 pm #

    Horus: I happen to have several gay friends and have no problem sitting next to them, even hugging them.
    Just because they are gay does not make them contagious.
    You’re delusional if you think anyone here who voted for Obama agrees with your ranting.

    I didn’t vote for Obama…. but I also disagree vehemently with Brook’s ranting.

  286. avatar
    Sudoku January 4, 2013 at 3:59 pm #

    Love that. It reminds me of the old commercial for Tootsie Roll Pops, with the owl.

    “The world may never know…”

    Daniel:
    I wonder how many times Hermitan can be shown wrong in one thread before he manages to catch that most elusive of social insects…. a clue…

  287. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

    Gorefan
    Comment

    “The borders of those layers were always aligned to the 8×8-grid of the whole picture.
    Then the empty lines at the left and bottom (bottom and right before rotating – all the
    pics were rotated for some reason) were deleted to save space.
    This was independent of the 8×8 blocks used for the DCT compression, though. To match that alignment we would need 16×16-blocks for the text-layers because of the double-resolution, but it doesn’t align to 16×16″”

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    Just more Obot recycle from way back.

    GSGS himself admitted that his MOD 16 X 16 blocks theory doesn’t work for the six binary text layers which are 300 PPI resolution.

    You must try harder Gore.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  288. avatar
    Hermitian January 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm #

    “Sudoku
    Comment

    “The world may never know…”

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    But the world will know that Obama claims to have in his possession two certified copies of his original birth certificate but has withheld these while his MDEC attorneys substituted two different forged LFCOLB PDF images in filings to the same Federal District Court.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  289. avatar
    SluggoJD January 4, 2013 at 4:26 pm #

    Hermitian:
    “Keith
    Comment

    “All images, official statements, and extra really official confirmations show the same birth date and birth location which are the only thing about the birth certificate that is relevant in any way to eligibility.”

    So what you are saying is that any old COLB image will do and it doesn’t even have to be a certified copy.And we don’t really need a chain of custody or certifying elements on the image like the WH COLB PDF image which has neither the raised seal impression nor the state registrar’s signature and date stamps.

    And then we are supposed to just buy that WH baloney (bologna) that the Campaign requested and received this very COLB in June 2008.Even though there is no COLB image with a 2008 creation date in existence anywhere on the internet.

    Just checking to see what you are asking the public to believe.

    What was that that Reagan said?Trust but Verify… Hmmmmmmmmm…

    Eat poop!

  290. avatar
    SluggoJD January 4, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

    Hermitian:
    “dunstvangeet
    Comment

    “Funny……

    Hey Dope!

    Obama is President! And you are an anonymous racist turnip.

    Put your head in a noose if you can’t deal with it.

  291. avatar
    SluggoJD January 4, 2013 at 4:33 pm #

    Brook:
    Yes, because heterosexual men are so comfortable sitting so close to an obviously effeminate gay man as we see in this photograph.LOL, Obama voters — I am getting through to some of them here.It’s not an easy thing to realize the fraud that has been perpetrated on our nation.It goes way beyond Obama.Mitt Romney had plenty of things in his past that should have destroyed his credibility, but these were never brought to light.We are dealing with a deception on a global and grand scale.

    Well actually, YOUR deception is severely limited by George Soros and his wonderful team.

    Try more pills. If that doesn’t help, try 115V AC.

  292. avatar
    Daniel January 4, 2013 at 4:35 pm #

    Hermitian:
    Gorefan
    Comment

    “The borders of those layers were always aligned to the 8×8-grid of the whole picture.Then the empty lines at the left and bottom (bottom and right before rotating – all thepics were rotated for some reason) were deleted to save space.This was independent of the 8×8 blocks used for the DCT compression, though. To match that alignment we would need 16×16-blocks for the text-layers because of the double-resolution, but it doesn’t align to 16×16″”

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    Just more Obot recycle from way back.

    GSGS himself admitted that his MOD 16 X 16 blocks theory doesn’t work for the six binary text layers which are 300 PPI resolution.

    You must try harder Gore.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Just for the record, can you please show us a copy of your membership card to the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners?

  293. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 5:06 pm #

    At the time those document were submitted the attorneys in Mississippi were not representing Barack Obama. The first one was submitted because Orly Taitz had submitted an unreadable copy. The second, along with the Hawaii verification was to counter Orly’s demand for sanctions against the defendants’ attorneys because they had asked the court to take judicial notice of a forged document. They had not, in fact, asked the court to take judicial notice of it, and it wasn’t forged.

    The case has not reached the point where evidence is presented or witnesses heard, and I daresay it never will.

    Hermitian: But the world will know that Obama claims to have in his possession two certified copies of his original birth certificate but has withheld these while his MDEC attorneys substituted two different forged LFCOLB PDF images in filings to the same Federal District Court.

  294. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 5:19 pm #

    It’s hard to know where to start with a comment such as yours that is so completely and utterly wrong. I guess I need to take it slow, start from the beginning and give some context.

    In 2001 the Hawaii Department of Health began issuing a short-form birth certificate, called a “Certification of Live Birth” which is a document computer generated from a database of births, and manually certified. At the same time they phased out issuing certified photocopies. Many states have done the same. I wrote a system like this for the Appalachia II District Health Department in South Carolina in 1978!

    In 2007, the Hawaii Department of Health issued one or more of these new-style birth certificates to Barack Obama, a copy of which was subsequently made public in 2008.

    Birthers raised a nonsense argument that “a certification is not a certificate.” Thanks to this birther nonsense causing confusion among the public, or for some other reason, the title at the top of the Hawaiian standard birth certification was changed from “certification” to “certificate” sometime in the 2009-2010 time frame.

    Nothing the Hawaii Department of Health changed helps Obama.

    Hermitian: So you are saying that a HDOH change of policy that you claim was invoked by the HDOH in 2001 (without public comment) and that was actually enforced in 2011 for Obama’s benefit should be blamed on the birthers?

  295. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 4, 2013 at 5:22 pm #

    Or the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners.

    http://www.asqde.org/

    Daniel: Just for the record, can you please show us a copy of your membership card to the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners?

  296. avatar
    Keith January 4, 2013 at 7:28 pm #

    Hermitian: So what you are saying is that any old COLB image will do and it doesn’t even have to be a certified copy.

    Absolutely correct. That is exactly what I am saying.

    We have absolute agreement of the relevant information from every source in existence. From contemporary newspaper reports to official replies for verification from the AZ SoS.

    The relevant information on every birth certificate image the President has made available has been verified by every act of confirmation possible. The relevant information is NOT IN DOUBT.

    It doesn’t matter if the Birth Certificate image is drawn on toilet paper with crayons as long as the relevant information is correct – and the Hawai’i DoH has verified that the relevant information is correct on numerous occasions.

    This of course begs the question that if all the information on the document is correct, and the HDoH verifies it as correct and that it matches exactly what the birth event documentation in their file (i.e. the ultimate original birth record) shows, then what could be the possible motivation to ‘forge’ such a document? But I digress.

    I am sure you will agree, being a strong upholder of the Constitution that I know you are, that the ultimate goal, as far as Constitutional eligibility is concerned, is that he is old enough and is a natural born citizen and has been a resident for at least 14 years and that there is no Constitutional requirement for a birth certificate or a Social Security number or Draft registration. None. Period. We just need to know that he is old enough and is a natural born citizen and has lived in the country for 14 years.

    We need to look elsewhere to verify that he has been a resident for 14 years, but if he was born in 1961 he is old enough and if he was born in Honolulu he is a natural born citizen. That is all we need to know from his Birth Certificate.

    Now Birth certificates are a convenient way to verify that he is old enough and is a natural born citizen. They are not the only way, however, and most Presidents have not possessed a Birth Certificate, and none, except our current President has ever released an image of his Birth Certificate. But even without the Birth Certificate we know that information from multiple other sources. And all sources confirm both the date and the location.