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100% verified

Mike Zullo, head of the Maricopa County, Arizona, volunteer Cold Case Posse, has made all sorts of claims about his activities arising from his attempts to discredit Barack Obama’s citizenship. Now in a recent interview, he say that all of the Cold Case Posse findings have been “verified.” He never says how they were verified, nor who verified them, leaving it to a matter of trusting Zullo’s word.

Around here, Mike Zullo’s credibility stands at somewhere to the south of zero after he was caught fabricating evidence in the form of a fake vital records coding manual and then lying about it. Has Zullo gotten any better?

In the same broadcast [link to podcast] where Zullo said he had “verified” the Cold Case Posse findings, he also related a story of a visit to George Washington’s home at Mount Vernon, and a tour guide telling him that Barack Obama was the only President who had not visited Mt. Vernon. In a fine piece of investigative journalism, Reality Check has found that this isn’t true at all; lots of President’s haven’t visited there. (Good job, Rick!)

We don’t know if Zullo made up the story of the tour guide, whether he altered the story, or whether he just passed on information as fact that he didn’t check out. The end result is the same: It has been 100% verified that Mike Zullo is not a trustworthy source of information.

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168 Responses to 100% verified

  1. avatar
    richCares April 11, 2013 at 9:11 am #

    What is Zullo’s source for his claims? If you want to guess, I will give you a hint, most of it is bile colored.

  2. avatar
    alg April 11, 2013 at 9:12 am #

    That was a nice bit of research on RC’s part. And your point about its implications for Mr. Zullo’s credibility and reliability is right on target.

    Zullo is a sad case of a man who has had a taste of his of fifteen minutes of fame (or infamy) and he’s desperate to steal additional, but undeserved minutes. Unfortunately, there are too many of those kinds of characters floating around and too many radio talk show hosts willing to pander to their obsessions and too many gullible fools searching for stuff like that to suck on.

  3. avatar
    john April 11, 2013 at 9:26 am #

    As RC pointed out, Zullo based his comment on a credibility of a Mount Vernon Tour Guide. So, it is the tour guide’s mistake not Zullo’s. One has to wonder if a Mount Vernon tour guide made that kind of a mistake, then why is he or she still a tour guide.

    As for not revealing his sources, RC fails to understand that this a criminal investigation and persons are not privy to certain information.

    Regarding John Woodman, As Zullo indicated, Woodman’s book was checked out and found to be NOT CREDIBLE.

    In addition, most “experts” (John Woodman claims to be one too) have not found to Woodman’s book to be credible. This was evident when Woodman interviewed on Mark Gillar’s show a while back.

  4. avatar
    john April 11, 2013 at 9:29 am #

    RC makes the following claim:

    “Woodman called again when the CCP used the incorrect vital statistics code to try to claim that the wrong code had been used for Barack Obama’s father’s race on the LFBC. John asked for a copy of the source for the codes that were displayed in the presentation last July at a CCP press conference run by Mike Zullo.”

    Despite how Woodman may feel about the evidence, he is and was not part of the CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. Therefore, he not PRIVY to such information.

  5. avatar
    Thinker April 11, 2013 at 9:41 am #

    I believe Zullo and Gallups when they say that someone at Mount Vernon told them the thing about Obama being the only President to never have visited Mount Vernon. It was probably some 70-something retired local yokel volunteer sitting at the information desk, wearing some crappy polyester dusty blue Ted Baxter-esque jacket who misses the good ol’ days and the good ol’ boys. What I find strange about the story, though, is that they even shared it. What a stupid story. Even if it were true, BFD. Seriously, who cares? Remember a couple of years ago when teabaggers got all worked up about that photo of Obama with his feet up on his desk in the Oval Office? They thought it showed how arrogant Obama was, but a photo of Bush doing the same thing just showed him to be hard-workin’ guy.

    Losers and hypocrites.

  6. avatar
    alg April 11, 2013 at 9:54 am #

    Thinker:
    I believe Zullo and Gallups when they say that someone at Mount Vernon told them the thing about Obama being the only President to never have visited Mount Vernon. It was probably some 70-something retired local yokel volunteer sitting at the information desk, wearing some crappy polyester dusty blue Ted Baxter-esque jacket who misses the good ol’ days and the good ol’ boys. What I find strange about the story, though, is that they even shared it. What a stupid story. Even if it were true, BFD. Seriously, who cares?

    I suspect you’re right about the origin of the story.

    Of course, the idea that we expect our Presidents to make a pilgrimage to Mt. Vernon to deify and pay homage a very mortal Mr. Washington, is entirely contradictory to the humanist principles underlying the creation of our Republic.

  7. avatar
    john April 11, 2013 at 9:57 am #

    I listened to the clip again. This is another classic example where RC takes something “Out of Context”

    Doc C and RC make the claim that there a numerous Presidents who have not visited Mount Vernon including Barack Obama and that Zullo and Gallup’s claim is not credible. RC attempts to back up his claims with information he received from a Mount Vernon Historian.

    However, the claim Gallup and Zullo is NOT what Doc C and RC is claiming.

    Gallup said that Obama is the only President who has not “Set Foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

    The information RC has only contains information about the President who actually registered their visit. However, even if other Presidents had not registered their visit, that does not mean they “Didn’t set foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

    The information RC cites is really not credible.

    Apparently, the Tour Guide that spoke to Gallup and Zullo know for a sure that Obama is the ONLY President “who has not set foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

  8. avatar
    Bob April 11, 2013 at 10:08 am #

    Here is a preview of the Cold Case Posse’s next announcement: “the evidence has now been super-duper verified.”

  9. avatar
    misha marinsky April 11, 2013 at 10:16 am #

    Zullo gives credence to the theory that carbon based life forms are inherently inferior.

  10. avatar
    Reality Check April 11, 2013 at 11:24 am #

    Thanks alg. You have to check out our friend John’s defense of Gallups and Zullo in the comments on the article at my blog. It is a hoot.

    alg: That was a nice bit of research on RC’s part. And your point about its implications for Mr. Zullo’s credibility and reliability is right on target.

  11. avatar
    Rickey April 11, 2013 at 11:48 am #

    My guess is that Zullo and Gallups made it up. The clincher, to me, is the part about the guide being “almost in tears.” That is just too melodramatic to be true. Besides, Obama has just begun his fifth year in office. George W. Bush didn’t visit Mount Vernon until his seventh year in office. Eisenhower didn’t visit Mount Vernon until his sixth year in office.

    The only part that I believe is that they may have asked a guide if Obama had ever been there and the guide said “no.” My experience with historical sites is that the guides are generally well-trained and knowledgeable, so it is hard to imagine that a guide would make such an obviously erroneous statement.

  12. avatar
    Paul April 11, 2013 at 12:46 pm #

    Thing is, he can make a claim like that, and if the Guide comes forward and denies he said it, all that proves is that “Obama’s Thugs” got to him.

  13. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 11, 2013 at 12:51 pm #

    Those late night low-budget penis-enlargement pill ads have more credibility than Zullo.

  14. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 11, 2013 at 1:23 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Thanks alg. You have to check out our friendJohn’s defense of Gallups and Zullo in the comments on the article at my blog. It is a hoot.

    Poor John. He really is sputtering.

  15. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 11, 2013 at 1:23 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Those late night low-budget penis-enlargement pill ads have more credibility than Zullo.

    You mean…..uh……oh, never mind!

  16. avatar
    richCares April 11, 2013 at 1:27 pm #

    “… penis-enlargement pill ads have more credibility than Zullo.”
    that means john will rush out to buy some, poor guy

  17. avatar
    nbc April 11, 2013 at 2:06 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Thanks alg. You have to check out our friendJohn’s defense of Gallups and Zullo in the comments on the article at my blog. It is a hoot.

    Anytime John opens his mouth, he loses more credibility. I had no idea that one could actually go negative on that scale 🙂

    Poor poor John, how much he hates our President and our Constitution…

  18. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 11, 2013 at 2:33 pm #

    richCares:
    “… penis-enlargement pill ads have more credibility than Zullo.”
    that means john will rush out to buy some, poor guy

    John is probably the very sucker that those commercials are aimed at.
    Low self-esteem, gullible, and easily parted from his money.

  19. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 11, 2013 at 2:51 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: John is probably the very sucker that those commercials are aimed at.
    Low self-esteem, gullible, and easily parted from his money.

    …and hard-wired to conclude that something he wants to happen is actually happening despite any and all evidence to the contrary.

  20. avatar
    Mary Brown April 11, 2013 at 3:36 pm #

    My read on these people is that they see an easy way to raise money. Look at a well known Sheriff who raised money and then used it to finance his election.

  21. avatar
    donna April 11, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

    Mary Brown: My read on these people is that they see an easy way to raise money. Look at a well known Sheriff who raised money and then used it to finance his election.

    or to finance the opposition to his recall – can we assume that he’s birther-quiet because of the recall?

    Respect Arizona obtained a letter — signed by Arpaio and paid for by the Elect Sheriff Joe Arpaio campaign — that was e-mailed to conservative supporters urging financial donations to help fight the recall.

    with a republican governor, republican AG, republican sec of state, TWO republican senators and republican representatives, why aren’t they supporting his birther efforts?

  22. avatar
    richCares April 11, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

    :…why aren’t they supporting his birther efforts?”
    I don’t think Joe is involved anymore, notice his no comments on Zullo

  23. avatar
    richCares April 11, 2013 at 5:22 pm #

    Zullo and crew downloaded a PDF from Obama’s web site and are using it in their forgery charges. They made no effort to check with the reporters that saw the original nor did they contact Savannah Guthrie who snapped a photo of it. They even refused contact with the Arizona AG who was given a certification. And they expect us to fall for their crap, that’s mental illness. Only someone like john would fall for the scam, So we all laughed at him.

  24. avatar
    Rickey April 11, 2013 at 5:24 pm #

    richCares:
    :…why aren’t they supporting his birther efforts?”
    I don’t think Joe is involved anymore, notice his no comments on Zullo

    I suspect that Joe thought that going birther might help to defeat Obama. When that didn’t happen, he lost interest.

  25. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 11, 2013 at 5:56 pm #

    Rickey: I suspect that Joe thought that going birther might help to defeat Obama. When that didn’t happen, he lost interest.

    It looks like these guys are too “fringey” even for Arpaio and (be still my heart) World Net Daily these days. When was the last time you saw anything from WND and/or Jerome Corsi?

  26. avatar
    Sactosintolerant April 11, 2013 at 6:56 pm #

    CarlOrcas: It looks like these guys are too “fringey” even for Arpaio and (be still my heart) World Net Daily these days. When was the last time you saw anything from WND and/or Jerome Corsi?

    WND dropped birtherism like a hot turd after the election. Have I missed the birther outrage over this?

  27. avatar
    Yoda April 11, 2013 at 7:02 pm #

    My take on the story is two fold. Obviously, either the story was related to them or it was fabricated. If it is fabricated then obviously it is reflective of Zullo’s credibility. Alternatively, if the story was related to him, it is reflective of both his poor skills as a detective and his bias. Either way, he comes across looking bad.

  28. avatar
    Bob April 11, 2013 at 8:44 pm #

    CarlOrcas:When was the last time you saw anything from WND and/or Jerome Corsi?

    Birther-related paraphernalia must have stopped selling.

  29. avatar
    JD Reed April 11, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

    Yoda:
    My take on the story is two fold.Obviously, either the story was related to them or it was fabricated.If it is fabricated then obviously it is reflective of Zullo’s credibility.Alternatively, if the story was related to him, it is reflective of both his poor skills as a detective and his bias.Either way, he comes across looking bad.

    Hear, hear!

  30. avatar
    Deborah April 11, 2013 at 10:01 pm #

    Why is the race chart missing number eight? It goes from seven to nine.

  31. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 11, 2013 at 10:03 pm #

    Bob: Birther-related paraphernalia must have stopped selling.

    I suspect you are absolutely correct.

  32. avatar
    justlw April 12, 2013 at 1:24 am #

    Deborah:
    Why is the race chart missing number eight? It goes from seven to nine.

    I would guess it’s because they only had seven specific options, and they then jumped to “9” for “none of the above / not stated”. So if there had been only three specific options, it would have gone from three to nine.

  33. avatar
    The Magic M April 12, 2013 at 4:55 am #

    Rickey: My guess is that Zullo and Gallups made it up. The clincher, to me, is the part about the guide being “almost in tears.” That is just too melodramatic to be true.

    I was just about to write the same thing.
    While it may be true there’s a guide who’s just so disappointed he never gets to meet the President he admires so much, I doubt he’d take a chit-chat with Zullo to have this emotional outburst for the first time.

  34. avatar
    The Magic M April 12, 2013 at 5:06 am #

    justlw: I would guess it’s because they only had seven specific options, and they then jumped to “9″ for “none of the above / not stated”. So if there had been only three specific options, it would have gone from three to nine.

    Yup, that’s how it’s done. I usually reserve 0 in the database for that, given that “magic numbers” are always a little dangerous and you can’t know if you’ll need more than 9 codes (0-8) and it would be bad practice to have the representation of “other/unknown” right in the middle of the others (it took me years to understand the *-555-* numbers in movies are fakes). Also, somebody would have to understand what “race_id, default 9” means whereas 0 is a natural placeholder for “unknown” (unless it’s a yes/no/unknown column, then I use -1 for unknown).

  35. avatar
    Thinker April 12, 2013 at 11:04 am #

    How would the tour guide know whether or not a particular 19th century US President “set foot on Mount Vernon property” except by looking at Mount Vernon’s records?

    My guess is that the statement was made by some teabagger volunteer who believes all the crazy anti-Obama venom BS spewed by Corsi, Beck, Bachmann, and other liars like them who think education is for snobs and that wearing flag pins equals patriotism. He probably said it as an off-hand remark in the context of a fact-free conversation with Zullo about how “un-American” Obama is.

    Regardless of the origin of the assertion, it is wrong. The facts don’t back up the statement. The fact that Zullo even shared this silly anecdote, with the clear implication that it somehow reflects poorly on Obama, is just more evidence of his motivated reasoning. It’s just more evidence that he is not doing anything even resembling a real law enforcement investigation.

    They are playing you birfers for suckers, John. They are lying to you. They are dishonest. You have been conned. Send them money.

    john:
    Apparently, the Tour Guide that spoke to Gallup and Zullo know for a sure that Obama is the ONLY President “who has not set foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

  36. avatar
    HistorianDude April 12, 2013 at 11:31 am #

    When was the last time you saw anything from WND and/or Jerome Corsi?

    As far as I can tell, the last WND article on the Cold Cuts Posse is dated 1/24/2013. Contrast this with, oh, March and April of last year when they published, on average, one Zullo related article a day.

  37. avatar
    Palamas April 12, 2013 at 11:33 am #

    Guys,

    There is no doubt that the Zullo precedent has been set that just makes “birthers” wait for more and more. It is indeed healthy to say I’ll believe it when I see it. I think that you guys should also just wait and judge whatever the findings are based on their merits.

    What I’ve never understood about your general objection to questioning Obama is the manifold reasons to be suspicious. Who withholds so much information for so long and has countless irregularities? The ones that you have done the worst job of explaining away (I’ll give you credit on many explanations of seeming irregularities) are basically these two:

    1. Abercrombie’s absolutely boastful announcements of setting the record straight only to immediately hit the ejection button once he found out more details. I just think you aren’t being honest with yourselves if you don’t think that looked super shady (even if you don’t believe that there is anything wrong with the records at DOH).

    2. The Connecticut SSN. Amidst all the irregularities this one is by far the worst. Some here have claimed that a clerical error was made, hitting 0 instead of 9. That is way more of a faith statement than anything even the most audacious birthers have made. The retrospective analysis that SSA can do whatever they want with numbers, while possible, is an overwhelming exception/herring.

    Again, it’s not any 1 thing per se, it’s that there are so many things weird about the guy AND there are countless irregularities, hidden documents, late releases, and people trying to “help” that eventually just make it all look that much worse.

  38. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 12, 2013 at 11:36 am #

    john: As RC pointed out, Zullo based his comment on a credibility of a Mount Vernon Tour Guide. So, it is the tour guide’s mistake not Zullo’s. One has to wonder if a Mount Vernon tour guide made that kind of a mistake, then why is he or she still a tour guide.

    Good point, John. Given your level of confidence in what the “Mount Vernon Tour Guide” said we must assume you know his/his identity. Please give us the name so we can alert Mount Vernon.

  39. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 12, 2013 at 11:38 am #

    john: Despite how Woodman may feel about the evidence, he is and was not part of the CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. Therefore, he not PRIVY to such information.

    Setting aside for a moment the fact that there is no real, legitimate “CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION” the notion that Zullo won’t respond to a query about something he said at a public news conference is, as usual for you, just laughable.

  40. avatar
    Hermitian April 12, 2013 at 11:46 am #

    “lots of presidents haven’t visited there” – including Barack Obama. “lots” is hardly quantitative. If he really did check then he would have the numbers.

    [The number is 21. Doc]

  41. avatar
    Yoda April 12, 2013 at 11:51 am #

    John’s position on this is actually a microcosm of the entire birther movement. John is willing rather believe that some unidentified “tour guide” knows more about the daily happenings of Mt. Vernon than does an identified official Mt. Vernon historian simply because it supports his hatred for the President.

  42. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 12, 2013 at 12:12 pm #

    HistorianDude: As far as I can tell, the last WND article on the Cold Cuts Posse is dated 1/24/2013. Contrast this with, oh, March and April of last year when they published, on average, one Zullo related article a day.

    I couldn’t get their search function to display the hits properly and the most recent stuff I found was late last year but, no matter, your comment is right on the mark.

  43. avatar
    richCares April 12, 2013 at 12:32 pm #

    Zullo was deposed on this last year, he failed the deposition, it was recorded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jnzj-hs0Z_s

  44. avatar
    Dave B. April 12, 2013 at 12:42 pm #

    john:
    As RC pointed out, Zullo based his comment on a credibility of a Mount Vernon Tour Guide.So, it is the tour guide’s mistake not Zullo’s.One has to wonder if a Mount Vernon tour guide made that kind of a mistake, then why is he or she still a tour guide.

    So if Misha tries to sell you Brooklyn Bridge and you buy it it’s all his fault?

    john: As for not revealing his sources, RC fails to understand that this a criminal investigation and persons are not privy to certain information.

    No, you fail to understand that this is anything but a criminal investigation.

    john: Regarding John Woodman, As Zullo indicated, Woodman’s book was checked out and found to be NOT CREDIBLE.

    Considering Zullo’s been checked out and found to be NOT CREDIBLE, I’d take that with a grain of salt.

    john: In addition, most “experts” (John Woodman claims to be one too) have not found to Woodman’s book to be credible. This was evident when Woodman interviewed on Mark Gillar’s show a while back.

    I refer you to my point about Zullo. You’re not calling Gillar an expert, are you?

  45. avatar
    Dave B. April 12, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

    If you can’t see the hole you dug for yourself in that one, you better start leaving your wallet at home.

    john: Gallup said that Obama is the only President who has not “Set Foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

    The information RC has only contains information about the President who actually registered their visit. However, even if other Presidents had not registered their visit, that does not mean they “Didn’t set foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

    The information RC cites is really not credible.

    Apparently, the Tour Guide that spoke to Gallup and Zullo know for a sure that Obama is the ONLY President “who has not set foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

  46. avatar
    Dave B. April 12, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    John, do you know what “gossip” is?

    john: Gallup said that Obama is the only President who has not “Set Foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

  47. avatar
    JD Reed April 12, 2013 at 12:53 pm #

    John, exactly how would one know if any particular past president visited Mount Vernon but did not register his visit? Obviously for what Gallup and Zullo said to be proven true, there would have to be some way of knowing for sure about these supposed unregistered presidential visits.

    So the burden of proof is on Zullo, Gallups and, as their acolyte, you. Enlighten us: where’s the evidence?

    This is not new for you, but you’re equating your pure conjecture with actual evidence. In the real world, it doesn’t work that way.

  48. avatar
    JD Reed April 12, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    Yoda:
    John’s position on this is actually a microcosm of the entire birther movement.John is willing rather believe that some unidentified “tour guide” knows more about the daily happenings of Mt. Vernon than does an identified official Mt. Vernon historian simply because it supports his hatred for the President.

    That there was an actual tour guide who said what Zullo and Gallups claimed, and John repeated, is certainly entitled to a great deal of doubt. Zullo’s and Gallups’ reputations for truth and veracity only magnify what would be a doubt in any rational person’s mind, given the second-hand nature of the report.

  49. avatar
    Yoda April 12, 2013 at 1:06 pm #

    JD Reed: That there was an actual tour guide who said what Zullo and Gallups claimed, and John repeated, is certainly entitled to a great deal of doubt. Zullo’s and Gallups’ reputations for truth and veracity only magnify what would be a doubt in any rational person’s mind, given the second-hand nature of the report.

    For the purposes of my post, I assumed that the conversation took place. Honestly, I seriously doubt that it did. I have yet to hear anything out of Zullo that remotely resembles the truth.

  50. avatar
    Rickey April 12, 2013 at 1:14 pm #

    john:

    Gallup said that Obama is the only President who has not “Set Foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

    The information RC has only contains information about the President who actually registered their visit.However, even if other Presidents had not registered their visit, that does not mean they “Didn’t set foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

    Apparently, the Tour Guide that spoke to Gallup and Zullo know for a sure that Obama is the ONLY President “who has not set foot on Mount Vernon Property”.

    If other Presidents visited Mount Vernon but didn’t register their visits, how would the tour guide know this? And why would the research historian at Mount Vernon not know about it?

    For once, try to apply some logic to your arguments.

  51. avatar
    Yoda April 12, 2013 at 1:26 pm #

    Rickey: If other Presidents visited Mount Vernon but didn’t register their visits, how would the tour guide know this? And why would the research historian at Mount Vernon not know about it?

    For once, try to apply some logic to your arguments.

    Come on, you know as well as I do that there is no such thing as birfer logic.

  52. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 12, 2013 at 2:08 pm #

    richCares:
    Zullo was deposed on this last year, he failed the deposition, it was recorded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jnzj-hs0Z_s

    Clearly a forgery….or whatever. Zullo doesn’t wear glasses.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 12, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    I might easily understand a tour guide missing the fact that Chester A. Arthur didn’t visit Mt. Vernon, but not Bill Clinton.

    JD Reed: That there was an actual tour guide who said what Zullo and Gallups claimed, and John repeated, is certainly entitled to a great deal of doubt.

  54. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 12, 2013 at 2:57 pm #

    Palamas: Again, it’s not any 1 thing per se, it’s that there are so many things weird about the guy AND there are countless irregularities, hidden documents, late releases, and people trying to “help” that eventually just make it all look that much worse.

    Of course….nothing “per se”…..not one thing, but just all those “weird” things that other “people” just make “much worse”.

    Are you just coming to this point five years into the……weirdness?

  55. avatar
    Kate1230 April 12, 2013 at 10:57 pm #

    Palamas: 2. The Connecticut SSN. Amidst all the irregularities this one is by far the worst. Some here have claimed that a clerical error was made, hitting 0 instead of 9. That is way more of a faith statement than anything even the most audacious birthers have made. The retrospective analysis that SSA can do whatever they want with numbers, while possible, is an overwhelming exception/herring.

    Again, it’s not any 1 thing per se, it’s that there are so many things weird about the guy AND there are countless irregularities, hidden documents, late releases, and people trying to “help” that eventually just make it all look that much worse.

    Birther logic at work again? So you find the idea that a clerk would hit “0” instead of “9” on a keyboard while entering info for a SS# less plausible than the explanation floated by birthers for a SS# that has been used for 30+ years?

    Taitz explains the reasoning for the SS# assigned to PBO as being due to theft, either on his part or his grandmother’s. However, she’s been proven wrong about his grandmother working in the probate department and the timing of her alleged work there. The first known use of the SS# that PBO uses is in 1980 on his draft registration. Madelyn Dunham didn’t do any volunteer work until 1986 and despite Taitz being aware of this, she still lies about her work in the probate department. The 1890 number is just that, a number, it doesn’t indicate a year of birth or a date, that’s pure conjecture on the part of Taitz. There is documented proof that PBO used the same SS# for 30 years without difficulty, including his IRS filings. The database that this info was obtained from are known to be wrought with numerous mistakes. The majority of the SS#’s that Taitz claims were used by PBO, despite there being no evidence of use, were almost all reported after 2007 when he became a national candidate. Taitz recently found a Harrison Bounel who happened to be born in 1890 and she claims that he’s the original owner of a SS# issued in 1977, when he would have been 87 years old without any proof of this being true. What is more likely, that Bounel never obtained a SS# or needed access to any medical care via Medicare until he was 87 years old or that the most common of errors, a typo was made, substituting a “0” for a “9”, allowing a number usually assigned to CT to be assigned to a young boy in Hawaii for his first job? President Obama’s b.c. has been verified by the state of HI so there was no reason for him to be unable to legally obtain a SS#. He’s used it for over 30 years without difficulty and yet birthers would rather believe a story filled with holes and lies touted by a lunatic who is obsessed with finding anything she can on President Obama and turning it into something defamatory, no matter how innocent it may be.

    There isn’t anything unusual or weird about mistakes being found in a national database, my own recent pull of my credit proved to have over a dozen errors in it. What documents were hidden? None that I’m aware of and as far as late releases goes, PBO released a B.C. in ’08 in order to prove that his middle name was not Mohammed. He released a form that was verified by several state officials in HI. Nothing will ever be to the satisfaction of birthers.

  56. avatar
    SluggoJD April 12, 2013 at 11:29 pm #

    Palamas:
    Guys,

    There is no doubt that the Zullo precedent has been set that just makes “birthers” wait for more and more. It is indeed healthy to say I’ll believe it when I see it. I think that you guys should also just wait and judge whatever the findings are based on their merits.

    What I’ve never understood about your general objection to questioning Obama is the manifold reasons to be suspicious. Who withholds so much information for so long and has countless irregularities? The ones that you have done the worst job of explaining away (I’ll give you credit on many explanations of seeming irregularities) are basically these two:

    1. Abercrombie’s absolutely boastful announcements of setting the record straight only to immediately hit the ejection button once he found out more details. I just think you aren’t being honest with yourselves if you don’t think that looked super shady (even if you don’t believe that there is anything wrong with the records at DOH).

    2. The Connecticut SSN. Amidst all the irregularities this one is by far the worst. Some here have claimed that a clerical error was made, hitting 0 instead of 9. That is way more of a faith statement than anything even the most audacious birthers have made. The retrospective analysis that SSA can do whatever they want with numbers, while possible, is an overwhelming exception/herring.

    Again, it’s not any 1 thing per se, it’s that there are so many things weird about the guy AND there are countless irregularities, hidden documents, late releases, and people trying to “help” that eventually just make it all look that much worse.

    You’re an idiot. Seek mental health professionals immediately, before you’re so stupid you can’t even read this great advice.

  57. avatar
    Butterfly Bilderberg April 12, 2013 at 11:36 pm #

    Palamas:
    2. The Connecticut SSN. Amidst all the irregularities this one is by far the worst. Some here have claimed that a clerical error was made, hitting 0 instead of 9. That is way more of a faith statement than anything even the most audacious birthers have made. The retrospective analysis that SSA can do whatever they want with numbers, while possible, is an overwhelming exception/herring.

    A question for you, Palamas. Why has the IRS not picked up on the misuse of this SSN? The IRS database (“Integrated Data Retrieval System”) interfaces with the SSA database for a number of purposes, including a cross-check of assigned Social Security Numbers. The name to whom the SSN was issued and the name on the tax return must match — actually, every name and SSN on a return (taxpayer, taxpayer’s spouse, and all dependents) must match the number reflected in the SSA’s database.

    We would be interested in YOUR explanation how Obama’s use of another person’s SSN for more than 30 years has gone unnoticed by the IRS.

  58. avatar
    Dave B. April 12, 2013 at 11:58 pm #

    Palamas: I think that you guys should also just wait and judge whatever the findings are based on their merits.

    Why wait? If you can’t tell it’s garbage by now, you’re never going to believe it is.

    Palamas: Who withholds so much information for so long and has countless irregularities?

    Beats me. Who?

    Palamas: I just think you aren’t being honest with yourselves if you don’t think that looked super shady (even if you don’t believe that there is anything wrong with the records at DOH).

    Now that’s ironic.
    Palamas: The Connecticut SSN. Amidst all the irregularities this one is by far the worst.

    Why that’s just downright silly.

    Palamas: Again, it’s not any 1 thing per se, it’s that there are so many things weird about the guy AND there are countless irregularities, hidden documents, late releases, and people trying to “help” that eventually just make it all look that much worse.

    That sounds more like Zullo.

  59. avatar
    Palamas April 13, 2013 at 9:27 am #

    I don’t understand the point of a blog with commentary if someone, not having called anyone names, arrives to ask questions and gets labeled/insulted/dismissed.

    For the record, the reason I’m here is to see what your answers to some questions would be.

    SluggoJD and DaveB are totally counterproductive. If people are “stupid” and need “mental help” who ask questions about this issue, why are you bothering to even look at this site or post on it? It seems like an even crazier waste of time.

    Butterfly, I appreciate your response and question. My answer is that it’s not hard to use a fake SSN for a number of things, even filing taxes. A simple google search of the FBI both posing as a fraud and/or other criminal elements doing such things is easy and immediately available on many news stories. Beyond that, once you get governmental influence (now we’re getting into conspiracy territory but this happens all the time in politics) you can do all manner of things “average” people can’t. Especially if you know hotshots like John Brennan.

    I wonder why no one will admit that the Abercrombie situation looked horrible, guilty, shady, and gave immediate credit to “birthers”. If you don’t see that then you just aren’t looking at the situation clearly, regardless of your conclusions on these issues. Abercrombie went from “shutting down” the birthers to making them look that much stronger in their ideas. Let’s be honest.

  60. avatar
    Majority Will April 13, 2013 at 9:45 am #

    Palamas: I wonder why no one will admit that the Abercrombie situation looked horrible, guilty, shady, and gave immediate credit to “birthers”.

    What are your sources for these astounding birther discoveries and revelations?

    What are their personal and political motives?

    I wonder why birthers won’t admit the astounding lack of credibility of sworn political enemies, smear artists, convicted forgers, paid propaganda peddlers and proven liars when it comes to fabricated evidence of fraud or malfeasance?

    Why is that?

    “We’re not nearly as far away as you might think. While the media and the failed Washington political establishment would like it to just go away, that will never happen. Not as long as I am around to sit on Obama’s birthday cake.” – Joseph Farah, editor-in-chief, WND

  61. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 9:54 am #

    You then might try researching what has already been said in The Debunkers Guide above, and use that generally in-depth discussion (as a whole) as your starting point.

    Palamas:

    For the record, the reason I’m here is to see what your answers to some questions would be.

  62. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 10:04 am #

    First, this falls under Fallacy # 34: it is a waste of time to talk about crime being possible, as if that means anything. Yes, crime is possible. I am shocked to find that out, but apparently it is true. But, the existence of crime does not mean a crime was committed in any specific instance.

    Beyond that, there seems to be some typical misunderstanding going on here. Social security fraud is not the same as identity theft. You can fake someone’s identity and file false taxes and collect an improper refund. But you will not get away with writing someone else’s social security number ion a tax form with your own name, or a name that does not match that number.

    And yes, having a position in the government could open certain doors for abuse of power (depending on the position). And you could be stealing my credit card information when you pump the gas into my car? I believe you should be investigated at least, even if you do not work at a gas station. Who is to know how you may have abused your actual position in life? Are you going to deny it is impossible that you could have abused your power, to whatever extent you have had any?

    This is why some people feel the need to just jump straight to insults. Because these are ridiculous points or “questions.”

    You could try asking better questions?

    Palamas: Butterfly, I appreciate your response and question. My answer is that it’s not hard to use a fake SSN for a number of things, even filing taxes. A simple google search of the FBI both posing as a fraud and/or other criminal elements doing such things is easy and immediately available on many news stories. Beyond that, once you get governmental influence (now we’re getting into conspiracy territory but this happens all the time in politics) you can do all manner of things “average” people can’t. Especially if you know hotshots like John Brennan.

  63. avatar
    Majority Will April 13, 2013 at 10:06 am #

    Paper:
    You then might try researching what has already been said in The Debunkers Guide above, and use that generally in-depth discussion (as a whole) as your starting point.

    And Palamas ignored the link I previously provided to the Doc’s debunking of the birthers’ ridiculous fairy tale and asinine assertions concerning Governor Neil Abercrombie.

  64. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 10:29 am #

    Why don’t you ask Mike Evans? You might be able to take your own advice then, and start looking at the situation clearly, and maybe, as you say, be honest about it?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/mike-evans-hawaii-gov-neil-abercrombie-told-obama-birth-certificate-article-1.152025

    Palamas:
    I wonder why no one will admit that the Abercrombie situation looked horrible, guilty, shady, and gave immediate credit to “birthers”. If you don’t see that then you just aren’t looking at the situation clearly, regardless of your conclusions on these issues. Abercrombie went from “shutting down” the birthers to making them look that much stronger in their ideas. Let’s be honest.

  65. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 10:29 am #

    Indeed.

    Majority Will: And Palamas ignored the link I previously provided to the Doc’s debunking of the birthers’ ridiculous fairy tale and asinine assertions concerning Governor Neil Abercrombie.

  66. avatar
    Majority Will April 13, 2013 at 10:50 am #

    Paper:
    Why don’t you ask Mike Evans?You might be able to take your own advice then, and start looking at the situation clearly, and maybe, as you say, be honest about it?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/mike-evans-hawaii-gov-neil-abercrombie-told-obama-birth-certificate-article-1.152025

    Adams and Evans LIED? I’m shocked.

  67. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 11:00 am #

    Well, I’m not sure that it is clear that Evans “lied.” Here’s his apology:

    “Only this I can you tell you is 100 percent fact: that Neil never told me there was no birth certificate. I never talked to him. I was on 34 radio stations that morning. That was the only station where I said, instead of saying ‘the hospital said there’s no birth certificate’ I misspoke and said Neil said that. I misspoke and I apologize for that. I apologize to Neil.”

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/mike-evans-says-that-oops-he-never-actually-spoke-to-hawaiis-governor-about-barack-obamas-birth-certificate/

    Majority Will: Adams and Evans LIED? I’m shocked.

  68. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 11:03 am #

    Of course, we then have Fallacy #66, birther generated not Evans generated, that the hospital itself says they never issued a birth certificate. (With the requisite inability, willful or incompetent, to understand what the hospital actually meant, records get destroyed over time, as no need to keep them. )

  69. avatar
    Majority Will April 13, 2013 at 11:41 am #

    Paper: Well, I’m not sure that it is clear that Evans “lied.”

    Po-tay-toh, po-tah-toh.

  70. avatar
    Kate1230 April 13, 2013 at 11:54 am #

    Palamas: Butterfly, I appreciate your response and question. My answer is that it’s not hard to use a fake SSN for a number of things, even filing taxes. A simple google search of the FBI both posing as a fraud and/or other criminal elements doing such things is easy and immediately available on many news stories. Beyond that, once you get governmental influence (now we’re getting into conspiracy territory but this happens all the time in politics) you can do all manner of things “average” people can’t. Especially if you know hotshots like John Brennan.

    I wonder why no one will admit that the Abercrombie situation looked horrible, guilty, shady, and gave immediate credit to “birthers”. If you don’t see that then you just aren’t looking at the situation clearly, regardless of your conclusions on these issues. Abercrombie went from “shutting down” the birthers to making them look that much stronger in their ideas. Let’s be honest.

    I wonder why you ignored a question regarding the story Taitz made up about the SS# and pretend that is a seemingly rational explanation in comparison to a typo that is frequently made?

    The Abercrombie situation only looks as if there is a cover-up of some type when it comes to birthers. If you look at the entire story, not just the parts the birthers print, you’ll see that the Governor was not entitled to release the b.c. We already knew there was a b.c. there prior to him looking into releasing a copy because the previous Republican Governor of Hawaii vouched for it and the information it contained.

  71. avatar
    gorefan April 13, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

    Palamas: Who withholds so much information for so long and has countless irregularities?

    You are probably gone now and won’t get the chance to read my response to your question. But here it is anyway.

    Every President ever elected in the United States and every candidate ever running for President in the United States.

    Now I have a question for you. How many “irregularities” are there on President Reagan’s birth certificate? They are not countless but they are significant.

  72. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 12:24 pm #

    I don’t know. He apologized. The second it got picked up.

    The liars are the ones who refuse to take notice.

    How many apologies about material details can you count from actual birthers?

    Majority Will: Po-tay-toh, po-tah-toh.

  73. avatar
    Northland10 April 13, 2013 at 12:35 pm #

    Palamas: it’s that there are so many things weird about the guy AND there are countless irregularities, hidden documents, late releases, and people trying to “help” that eventually just make it all look that much worse.

    How many other Birth Certificates have you inspected to determine a definition of irregularities? How many President’s have you researched to find irregularities, hidden documents and late releases? How many SSN listings did you look at before Orly started her quest? Do you even know what normal is?

    When you have no baseline for regular, everything is irregular.

  74. avatar
    Dave B. April 13, 2013 at 12:37 pm #

    Palamas: SluggoJD and DaveB are totally counterproductive. If people are “stupid” and need “mental help” who ask questions about this issue, why are you bothering to even look at this site or post on it?

    Look, I never said you were stupid or needed mental help. Or anything remotely resembling that. And no birther has any business calling any of us “counterproductive.”

    Palamas: I wonder why no one will admit that the Abercrombie situation looked horrible, guilty, shady, and gave immediate credit to “birthers”. If you don’t see that then you just aren’t looking at the situation clearly, regardless of your conclusions on these issues.

    No birther has any business saying any of us aren’t looking at the situation clearly.

    Palamas: Let’s be honest.

    And no birther has any business at all saying “Let’s be honest.” If you were honest, you couldn’t still be a birther. Your lies and gossip have been too thoroughly discredited.

  75. avatar
    Yoda April 13, 2013 at 1:43 pm #

    Let me throw my two cents in here. I have been know to call birthers stupid and mentally. when I have it was out of frustration and because, you know, birthers tend to be stupid and/or mentally ill. I tend not to deal directly with birthers anymore because the stupidity and/or mental illness prevent them from learning.

    It becomes very frustrating to deal with the exact same birther talking points that were debunked years ago. Birthers not only show intellectual dishonesty, but intellectual laziness. I accept the fact that birthers will not believe what anti birthers say, but they will not even check. For example, why did Zullo say recently that the President sealed his records with his first executive order? The order is available on line and clearly has nothing to do with private records. (Yet more proof of the boy detective’s skills) Why is it STILL a birther talking point? There are many other examples of this.

    There is a great quote I saw on the Fogbow that aptly describes birthers–They demand proof of the obvious but accept the preposterous without evidence (not sure I got it quite right, but that is the gist).

    You want to know why people call you stupid for asking questions? It is because the questions you ask were answered thousands of times. It reminds me of the scene in the Caine Mutiny were Bogart’s Captain Queeg advanced a paranoid, complex theory about missing strawberries even after some sailors had confessed to stealing them.

    Birthers are always looking for zebras when they hear hoof beats in Central Park and never question how unreasonable and irrational their beliefs are.

  76. avatar
    Palamas April 13, 2013 at 1:52 pm #

    To act as though a Reagan/Obama comparison is legitimate is questioning mental faculties. Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national. No other president knowingly stated this even from the beginning (Arthur hid it, which is its own proof). Then he spent substantial time in other countries while growing up. The assertion that these are comparable in the least is at best ignorant and at worst, stupid. Again, be honest.

  77. avatar
    Scientist April 13, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

    Palamas:
    To act as though a Reagan/Obama comparison is legitimate is questioning mental faculties. Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national. No other president knowingly stated this even from the beginning (Arthur hid it, which is its own proof). Then he spent substantial time in other countries while growing up. The assertion that these are comparable in the least is at best ignorant and at worst, stupid. Again, be honest.

    Both were twice elected and both have served/will serve 2 terms. They are absolutely identical in that. Obama seems like he will be effective in his second term and not hampered by Alzheimers. They are different in that regard. Both will go down as significant Presidents with important accomplishments and also some failures.

  78. avatar
    Yoda April 13, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

    Palamas:
    To act as though a Reagan/Obama comparison is legitimate is questioning mental faculties. Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national. No other president knowingly stated this even from the beginning (Arthur hid it, which is its own proof). Then he spent substantial time in other countries while growing up. The assertion that these are comparable in the least is at best ignorant and at worst, stupid. Again, be honest.

    Yes, let’s be honest. Parental citizenship is not a requirement for NBC. Plus the Constitution requires residency in the Country for only 14 years to be eligible to be president. So exactly what is your point?

  79. avatar
    Deborah April 13, 2013 at 2:04 pm #

    Yoda April 13, 2013 at 1:43 pm (Quote) #

    It reminds me of the scene in the Caine Mutiny were Bogart’s Captain Queeg advanced a paranoid, complex theory about missing strawberries even after some sailors had confessed to stealing them.

    LMAO!!

    I gotta say there are a few good reasons to read this site, one is for hilarious entertainment, and the other is for sound reasoning and healthy intellect.

  80. avatar
    Yoda April 13, 2013 at 2:11 pm #

    Deborah:
    Yoda April 13, 2013 at 1:43 pm(Quote) #

    It reminds me of the scene in the Caine Mutiny were Bogart’s Captain Queeg advanced a paranoid, complex theory about missing strawberries even after some sailors had confessed to stealing them.

    LMAO!!

    I gotta say there are a few good reasons to read this site, one is for hilarious entertainment, and the other is for sound reasoning and healthy intellect.

    Thank you, thank you very much. I appear nightly.

  81. avatar
    SluggoJD April 13, 2013 at 2:17 pm #

    Palamas:
    I don’t understand the point of a blog with commentary if someone, not having called anyone names, arrives to ask questions and gets labeled/insulted/dismissed.

    For the record, the reason I’m here is to see what your answers to some questions would be.

    SluggoJD and DaveB are totally counterproductive. If people are “stupid” and need “mental help” who ask questions about this issue, why are you bothering to even look at this site or post on it? It seems like an even crazier waste of time.

    Butterfly, I appreciate your response and question. My answer is that it’s not hard to use a fake SSN for a number of things, even filing taxes. A simple google search of the FBI both posing as a fraud and/or other criminal elements doing such things is easy and immediately available on many news stories. Beyond that, once you get governmental influence (now we’re getting into conspiracy territory but this happens all the time in politics) you can do all manner of things “average” people can’t. Especially if you know hotshots like John Brennan.

    I wonder why no one will admit that the Abercrombie situation looked horrible, guilty, shady, and gave immediate credit to “birthers”. If you don’t see that then you just aren’t looking at the situation clearly, regardless of your conclusions on these issues. Abercrombie went from “shutting down” the birthers to making them look that much stronger in their ideas. Let’s be honest.

    I have no time for racist idiots, who keep repeating the same crap over and over for years.

    If I hurt your feelings, stop being a racist idiot, and you will start feeling better.

  82. avatar
    Scientist April 13, 2013 at 2:27 pm #

    Palamas: My answer is that it’s not hard to use a fake SSN for a number of things, even filing taxes.

    Who would use a fake SSN to owe over $1 million in taxes, as Obama did in several years? People who file with fake SSNs do so to collect large refunds through the EITC and other credits. I have never heard of someone committing a fraud in order to fork over a large chunk of change. it makes no sense.

  83. avatar
    gorefan April 13, 2013 at 4:22 pm #

    Palamas:
    To act as though a Reagan/Obama comparison is legitimate is questioning mental faculties. Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national. No other president knowingly stated this even from the beginning (Arthur hid it, which is its own proof). Then he spent substantial time in other countries while growing up. The assertion that these are comparable in the least is at best ignorant and at worst, stupid. Again, be honest.

    Well now you are contradicting yourself. You say President Obama is hiding his information yet we know about his father and his time in Indonesia by President Obama’s own admissions.

    BTW, spending five years (age 6 to 10) in Indonesia is not “substantial time in other countries while growing up.” Indonesia is one country not plural (countries) and we know for a fact that he spent from the fifth grade through college years living in the United States. So he grew up in the United States.

    My use of President Reagan’s BC was to show you that BCs can have significant discrepancies without being suspicious.

  84. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 4:26 pm #

    Why are you getting in a tizzy when you are the one discussing irrelevancies? One point in bringing up Reagan, if you care, is that his birth certificate was a delayed birth certificate, issued thirty-one years after his birth. If you are worried about possible discrepancies, there you go, get to work. I think it is a waste of time trying to say Reagan was faking his birth certificate, but you are the one concerned about this kind of thing. I mean, Reagan was in government, and while he didn’t know John Brennan, I hear that “once you get governmental influence…you can do all manner of things ‘average’ people can’t.”

    But you are right, why compare these two, when, as unlikely as it is, it is far more likely that Reagan cheated on his birthplace than Obama did. You should really start proving Reagan was on the up and up. Otherwise, his legacy may be tarnished by such *important* issues.

    Palamas:
    To act as though a Reagan/Obama comparison is legitimate is questioning mental faculties. Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national. No other president knowingly stated this even from the beginning (Arthur hid it, which is its own proof). Then he spent substantial time in other countries while growing up. The assertion that these are comparable in the least is at best ignorant and at worst, stupid. Again, be honest.

  85. avatar
    Majority Will April 13, 2013 at 5:07 pm #

    Yoda:
    Let me throw my two cents in here.I have been know to call birthers stupid and mentally.when I have it was out of frustration and because, you know, birthers tend to be stupid and/or mentally ill.I tend not to deal directly with birthers anymore because the stupidity and/or mental illness prevent them from learning.

    It becomes very frustrating to deal with the exact same birther talking points that were debunked years ago.Birthers not only show intellectual dishonesty, but intellectual laziness.I accept the fact that birthers will not believe what anti birthers say, but they will not even check.For example, why did Zullo say recently that the President sealed his records with his first executive order?The order is available on line and clearly has nothing to do with private records.(Yet more proof of the boy detective’s skills) Why is it STILL a birther talking point? There are many other examples of this.

    There is a great quote I saw on the Fogbow that aptly describes birthers–They demand proof of the obvious but accept the preposterous without evidence (not sure I got it quite right, but that is the gist).

    You want to know why people call you stupid for asking questions?It is because the questions you ask were answered thousands of times.It reminds me of the scene in the Caine Mutiny were Bogart’s Captain Queeg advanced a paranoid, complex theory about missing strawberries even after some sailors had confessed to stealing them.

    Birthers are always looking for zebras when they hear hoof beats in Central Park and never question how unreasonable and irrational their beliefs are.

    Hear, hear.

  86. avatar
    Thinker April 13, 2013 at 6:38 pm #

    Even Evans’ apology contains a lie. He said that on two stations that day–KQRS in Minneapolis and KLBJ in Austin, Texas. In his KLBJ interview, he said that Abercrombie had a search warrant to look for Obama’s birth certificate in the hospitals, which is absurd since hospitals don’t keep birth certificates.

    Paper:
    Well, I’m not sure that it is clear that Evans “lied.”Here’s his apology:

    “Only this I can you tell you is 100 percent fact: that Neil never told me there was no birth certificate. I never talked to him.I was on 34 radio stations that morning. That was the only station where I said, instead of saying ‘the hospital said there’s no birth certificate’ I misspoke and said Neil said that. I misspoke and I apologize for that. I apologize to Neil.”

  87. avatar
    Dave B. April 13, 2013 at 6:47 pm #

    Palamas: To act as though a Reagan/Obama comparison is legitimate is questioning mental faculties. Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national.

    So?

    Palamas: No other president knowingly stated this even from the beginning (Arthur hid it, which is its own proof). Then he spent substantial time in other countries while growing up.

    So? He sure wasn’t hiding any of that, was he? Still got elected twice, didn’t he?

    Palamas: The assertion that these are comparable in the least is at best ignorant and at worst, stupid. Again, be honest.

    Yeah, give that a try. I thought you didn’t like that “ignorant and stupid” business.

  88. avatar
    Butterfly Bilderberg April 13, 2013 at 7:07 pm #

    Palamas:
    I don’t understand the point of a blog with commentary if someone, not having called anyone names, arrives to ask questions and gets labeled/insulted/dismissed.

    For the record, the reason I’m here is to see what your answers to some questions would be.

    * * *

    Butterfly, I appreciate your response and question. My answer is that it’s not hard to use a fake SSN for a number of things, even filing taxes. A simple google search of the FBI both posing as a fraud and/or other criminal elements doing such things is easy and immediately available on many news stories. Beyond that, once you get governmental influence (now we’re getting into conspiracy territory but this happens all the time in politics) you can do all manner of things “average” people can’t. Especially if you know hotshots like John Brennan.

    * * *

    Let’s be honest.

    Yes, I agree, let’s be honest. Let’s start with your contention that “it’s not hard to use a fake SSN for a number of things, even filing taxes.” What is your evidence of this?

    I explained to you, IN DETAIL, how the IRS database (“IDRS”) retrieves the name of the person to whom any SSN was assigned by the Social Security Administration. The IRS gets the information directly from the SSA. Do you have evidence that this is not the case?

    Next, I explained to you, IN DETAIL, that the IRS computer matches the name and SSN on the return with the name and SSN in the Social Security Administration’s records. This is important, so pay close attention: The name and the SSN MUST MATCH WHAT THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION AND THE IRS HAVE ON FILE. Do you have evidence that this not the case? If so, I would be very interested and would be willing to take the evidence to the programmers at the agency.

    What this means is that it is not possible to “fake” a SSN on a tax filing. Obama’s name
    and SSN match.

    You refer to return filing fraud, but it does not work the way you think it does. A return with a name and SSN that match can be fraudulently filed by a person who does not have that name and that SSN. There are schemes that the IRS investigates that involve prisoners selling the use of their name and SSN to others (also the use of their children’s and nieces’ and nephews’ names and SSNs) so that a false return can be filed with fraudulent income information — in each case the fraudster files a return claiming that he/she is self employed in a low-income, usually all-cash business, and claims the children as dependents in order to receive a refundable credit such as the Earned Income Credit or Child Tax Credit. The essential element in carrying out such a scheme, however, is that THE FRAUDSTER MUST USE A NAME AND SSN THAT MATCH WHAT IS IN THE SSA’S DATABASE, because the IDRS kicks out any return (that is, the return is not processed and refund is “frozen”) when the name and SSN do not match.

    But the scenario I posed did not involve the filing of a fraudulent return. It involved the Obamas’ legitimate returns. The question I posed to you, which you dodged, is how has Barack Obama been able to file returns for more than 30 years using his name and a SSN assigned to another person? If his name does not match the SSN in the database maintained by SSA and interfaced by IDRS, then how did he escape being investigated by the IRS’s Inspector General or the Criminal Tax Division for filing false returns?

    The fact is, the SSN that he uses is the number that was assigned to him in 1977. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

  89. avatar
    Butterfly Bilderberg April 13, 2013 at 7:25 pm #

    Scientist: Who would use a fake SSN to owe over $1 million in taxes, as Obama did in several years?People who file with fake SSNs do so to collect large refunds through the EITC and other credits.I have never heard of someone committing a fraud in order to fork over a large chunk of change.it makes no sense.

    Exactly. If anything, it is reverse-fraud. Obama has, year after year, voluntarily and generously donated six- and seven-figure tax payments to the government, as well as credited the Social Security account of an unidentified person with 30-plus years of earnings that can be collected by the “real” owner of the SSN upon his/her retirement (or escheat to the government, since it is doubtful that anyone born in 1890 is still living and collecting his monthly benefits).

    Scientist, I would not hold my breath waiting for a response from Palamas.

  90. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    Not trying to defend Evans, but he did admit it wasn’t true, even if he made excuses. Never does a birther do that.

    Thinker:
    Even Evans’ apology contains a lie. He said that on two stations that day–KQRS in Minneapolis and KLBJ in Austin, Texas. In his KLBJ interview, he said that Abercrombie had a search warrant to look for Obama’s birth certificate in the hospitals, which is absurd since hospitals don’t keep birth certificates.

  91. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 13, 2013 at 8:26 pm #

    I don’t understand the point of someone commenting on a polarizing political issue on a public forum if they are too thin-skinned to get past a little criticism.

    Sorry, the victim card is not honored on this site.

    I more or less let you say what you want to say, and other folks say what they want to say in response. But you really cannot expect a respectful response when you dump long-discredited nonsense as if it were something worth discussing (again).

    Palamas: I don’t understand the point of a blog with commentary if someone, not having called anyone names, arrives to ask questions and gets labeled/insulted/dismissed.

  92. avatar
    Palamas April 13, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

    Doc,

    Calling someone a mentally unstable, racist idiot is “a little criticism”? Apart from it being totally irrelevant and impossible to know, it’s utter foolishness.

    Most of the guys here did a good job of asking legitimate questions. Your allowing SluggoJD posts which contain useless filth totally unrelated to the topic of a discussion is a disgrace.

    Yes, it’s your site. It seems you are a decent guy. That’s why I’m surprised you allow stuff totally unbecoming of a classy individual.

  93. avatar
    Rickey April 13, 2013 at 9:45 pm #

    Palamas:
    To act as though a Reagan/Obama comparison is legitimate is questioning mental faculties. Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national. No other president knowingly stated this even from the beginning (Arthur hid it, which is its own proof). Then he spent substantial time in other countries while growing up. The assertion that these are comparable in the least is at best ignorant and at worst, stupid. Again, be honest.

    You want honest?

    Honest is that Obama moved to Indonesia in October, 1967 (at age 6) and he moved back to Hawaii for good in the summer of 1971 (at age 9 going on 10). In between he had an extended visit with his grandparents in Honolulu in 1970. This means that his “substantial time in other countries” amounted to approximately 3 1/2 years. He is now 51 years old, so he spent all of 6.8% of his life in foreign countries and 19.4% of his childhood in foreign countries. .

    By way on contrast, John Quincy Adams spent most of the years from 1777 to 1785 living in foreign countries. This mean that during his first 51 years he spent 15.6 % of his life in foreign countries and 44% of his childhood in foreign countries.

  94. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater April 13, 2013 at 9:52 pm #

    Palamas:
    Doc,

    Calling someone a mentally unstable, racist idiot is “a little criticism”? Apart from it being totally irrelevant and impossible to know, it’s utter foolishness.

    Most of the guys here did a good job of asking legitimate questions. Your allowing SluggoJD posts which contain useless filth totally unrelated to the topic of a discussion is a disgrace.

    Yes, it’s your site. It seems you are a decent guy. That’s why I’m surprised you allow stuff totally unbecoming of a classy individual.

    Grow up. If you don’t like being ridiculed then don’t act ridiculous. Did you ever have this ever changing completely absurd level of scrutiny about a president’s background before Obama came along? How long have you been obsessed with personal documents of a President?

  95. avatar
    Rickey April 13, 2013 at 9:53 pm #

    Palamas:

    2. The Connecticut SSN. Amidst all the irregularities this one is by far the worst. Some here have claimed that a clerical error was made, hitting 0 instead of 9. That is way more of a faith statement than anything even the most audacious birthers have made. The retrospective analysis that SSA can do whatever they want with numbers, while possible, is an overwhelming exception/herring.

    Not overwhelming at all.

    My ex-wife was born in New York and lived most her life in New York, yet when she was a teenager she was issued a SSN with prefix 210 (Pennsylvania). She has never in her life either lived or worked in Pennsylvania, yet there it is.

    My theory is that she was supposed to receive a number with prefix 120 (a New York prefix) and someone transposed the first two numbers.

    Things like that happen.

  96. avatar
    Rickey April 13, 2013 at 10:07 pm #

    Palamas:

    Calling someone a mentally unstable, racist idiot is “a little criticism”? Apart from it being totally irrelevant and impossible to know, it’s utter foolishness.

    Most of the guys here did a good job of asking legitimate questions. Your allowing SluggoJD posts which contain useless filth totally unrelated to the topic of a discussion is a disgrace.

    Yes, it’s your site. It seems you are a decent guy. That’s why I’m surprised you allow stuff totally unbecoming of a classy individual.

    If you want to be taken seriously, you could start by responding to Butterfly Bilderberg’s 7:25 p.m. post and explain how Barack Obama could have been filing Federal Income Tax returns for at least thirty years with someone else’s Social Security Number without anyone at the IRS or the Social Security Administration noticing.

    And if Obama has been using someone else’s Social Security Number, why have birther investigators and the Cold Case Posse been unable to identify the person from whom the number was stolen? That’s a question which I have been asking birthers for several years, and I never, ever received a response.

  97. avatar
    donna April 13, 2013 at 10:11 pm #

    perhaps JD Sue can help with this one since she practices law in illinois – before sitting for the bar (in areas i know of), applicants, who use their SSNs, are fingerprinted and have to pass a background check – obama took the bar exam in 1991- why weren’t anomalies discovered then? why were they only “discovered” in the past 5 years?

  98. avatar
    SluggoJD April 13, 2013 at 10:35 pm #

    Doc,

    Calling someone a mentally unstable, racist idiot is “a little criticism”? Apart from it being totally irrelevant and impossible to know, it’s utter foolishness.

    Most of the guys here did a good job of asking legitimate questions. Your allowing SluggoJD posts which contain useless filth totally unrelated to the topic of a discussion is a disgrace.

    Yes, it’s your site. It seems you are a decent guy. That’s why I’m surprised you allow stuff totally unbecoming of a classy individual.

    Palamas: Slugg

    Truth normally hurts. None of us have time for you and your ilk, we’re sick of the same stuff over and over. Like Yoda said, you guys are both intellectually dishonest AND intellectually lazy.

    Change the truth, change yourself, and maybe you’ll grow up, and man up as well to being a wuss, and then move forward in life.

  99. avatar
    misha marinsky April 13, 2013 at 11:09 pm #

    Palamas: Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident

    Cheney is supposedly a war criminal.

    Palamas: he was a foreign national.

    Cheney’s first loyalty is to Halliburton, which has no allegiance.

  100. avatar
    Paper April 13, 2013 at 11:40 pm #

    Leaving aside people insulting you, my question is, why do you propose such nonsense then? There is no doubt about the silliness of your points. You may be a multifaceted human being, but your arguments are ridiculous. So, why?

    Palamas:
    Calling someone a mentally unstable, racist idiot is “a little criticism”? Apart from it being totally irrelevant and impossible to know, it’s utter foolishness.

  101. avatar
    Keith April 14, 2013 at 12:12 am #

    Yoda: It reminds me of the scene in the Caine Mutiny were Bogart’s Captain Queeg advanced a paranoid, complex theory about missing strawberries even after some sailors had confessed to stealing them.

    The Case of the Missing Strawberries


    The Trial

  102. avatar
    Majority Will April 14, 2013 at 12:20 am #

    Palamas: Most of the guys here did a good job of asking legitimate questions. Your allowing SluggoJD posts which contain useless filth totally unrelated to the topic of a discussion is a disgrace.

    Who appointed you judge? Your arrogance is laughable and pathetic. Do you lick little gold stars and post them on your screen or do you keep scathing notes in one of those secret notebooks with a special code only you understand?

    Your obstinate avoidance of common sense debunking and replies is typical of many birthers.

    You prefer to believe sworn political enemies, smear artists, convicted forgers, paid propaganda peddlers and proven liars. It’s a comforting fountain of truth for paranoid, delusional, fear mongering bigots.

    “Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national.” Your xenophobia and disgusting bigotry is not a surprise.

    That brand of stupidity and ODS is not new here. You’re not special.

  103. avatar
    Keith April 14, 2013 at 12:27 am #

    donna:
    perhaps JD Sue can help with this one since she practices law in illinois – before sitting for the bar (in areas i know of), applicants, who use their SSNs, are fingerprinted and have to pass a background check – obama took the bar exam in 1991- why weren’t anomalies discovered then? why were they only “discovered” in the past 5 years?

    Interesting, but since it has been demonstrated that State Bar Exams can be scammed (refer to Orly Taitz), by Birther logic that all State Bar Exam processes and procedures are not just suspect, but positively corruptly compromised.

  104. avatar
    Majority Will April 14, 2013 at 12:28 am #

    misha marinsky: Cheney is supposedly a war criminal.

    Cheney’s first loyalty is to Halliburton, which has no allegiance.

    Cheney’s Halliburton Made $39.5 Billion on Iraq War

    By Angelo Young, International Business Times
    March 20th, 2013

    (excerpt) The accounting of the financial cost of the nearly decade-long Iraq War will go on for years, but a recent analysis has shed light on the companies that made money off the war by providing support services as the privatization of what were former U.S. military operations rose to unprecedented levels.

    Private or publicly listed firms received at least $138 billion of U.S. taxpayer money for government contracts for services that included providing private security, building infrastructure and feeding the troops.

    Ten contractors received 52 percent of the funds, according to an analysis by the Financial Times that was published Tuesday.

    The No. 1 recipient?

    Houston-based energy-focused engineering and construction firm KBR, Inc. (NYSE:KBR), which was spun off from its parent, oilfield services provider Halliburton Co. (NYSE:HAL), in 2007.

    The company was given $39.5 billion in Iraq-related contracts over the past decade, with many of the deals given without any bidding from competing firms, such as a $568-million contract renewal in 2010 to provide housing, meals, water and bathroom services to soldiers, a deal that led to a Justice Department lawsuit over alleged kickbacks, as reported by Bloomberg.

  105. avatar
    Lupin April 14, 2013 at 2:41 am #

    Palamas: Calling someone a mentally unstable, racist idiot is “a little criticism”?

    I don’t know about “mentally unstable”, that does seem a bit unfair, but “racist” and especially “idiot”, you have earned based on your postings here.

  106. avatar
    SluggoJD April 14, 2013 at 3:20 am #

    Majority Will: Who appointed you judge? Your arrogance is laughable and pathetic. Do you lick little gold stars and post them on your screen or do you keep scathing notes in one of those secret notebooks with a special code only you understand?

    Your obstinate avoidance of common sense debunking and replies is typical of many birthers.

    You prefer to believe sworn political enemies, smear artists, convicted forgers, paid propaganda peddlers and proven liars. It’s a comforting fountain of truth for paranoid, delusional, fear mongering bigots.

    “Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national.” Your xenophobia and disgusting bigotry is not a surprise.

    That brand of stupidity and ODS is not new here. You’re not special.

    Yeah, but he sure wants to feel special…special and loved, and he wants to be the one who finally cracks the case wide open. He just can’t bear facing the truth – that there is no case, there never was a case, and his bigotry and racism is cleverly exploited by those who couldn’t care less about truth…

    and it’s our fault.

    LOL

  107. avatar
    TruthandFreedom April 14, 2013 at 7:21 pm #

    I say let all the crap be aired on public tv, all channels… and if its true obama and his regime be handcuffed and walked into gitmo. If innocent… those bringing the case be walked into gitmo… Let’s get this crap done!! Let’s make it TRANSPARENT and make all media cover it with no editing! ALL LIVE and OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR VIEWING!

  108. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 14, 2013 at 8:27 pm #

    It sounds good, but in practice, this wouldn’t accomplish anything.

    Remember the Warren Commission that met for ages, took testimony under oath and filed an extensive report. Later commissions reviewed it too, and yet 51% of Americans believe that they got the JFK assassination wrong.

    So what if you saw Obama’s long-form birth certificate on live TV, even in the bound volume in Hawaii and on microfilm. The birthers have already said Hawaii has made a fake certificate for Obama.

    No, evidence is not effective in resolving conspiracy theories. The more evidence, the bigger the conspiracy is to them.

    TruthandFreedom: I say let all the crap be aired on public tv, all channels… and if its true obama and his regime be handcuffed and walked into gitmo. If innocent… those bringing the case be walked into gitmo… Let’s get this crap done!! Let’s make it TRANSPARENT and make all media cover it with no editing! ALL LIVE and OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR VIEWING!

  109. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 14, 2013 at 8:31 pm #

    Cheer up. Nobody called you the antichrist yet.

    Palamas: Calling someone a mentally unstable, racist idiot is “a little criticism”? Apart from it being totally irrelevant and impossible to know, it’s utter foolishness.

  110. avatar
    misha marinsky April 14, 2013 at 8:35 pm #

    TruthandFreedom: and if its true obama and his regime be handcuffed and walked into gitmo

    I share your concerns. In fact, I found a Kenya birth certificate (Obama’s?) that will cause fireworks! See for yourself:

    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2009/09/another-kenyan-birth-certificate.html

  111. avatar
    misha marinsky April 14, 2013 at 8:38 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Cheer up. Nobody called you the antichrist yet.

    Only if Palamas is Jewish. If he is, I’ll be the first.

  112. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 14, 2013 at 9:08 pm #

    TruthandFreedom:
    I say let all the crap be aired on public tv, all channels… and if its true obama and his regime be handcuffed and walked into gitmo.If innocent… those bringing the case be walked into gitmo… Let’s get this crap done!!Let’s make it TRANSPARENT and make all media cover it with no editing!ALL LIVE and OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR VIEWING!

    As Doc says it “sounds good” but – setting aside the impracticality of it – just what would the PUBLIC be seeing that hasn’t been available for years? What would you expect to see that you haven’t seen already?

    And who would you have decide what’s true or not?

  113. avatar
    misha marinsky April 14, 2013 at 9:13 pm #

    CarlOrcas: And who would you have decide what’s true or not?

    Orly Taitz and Joseph Farah.

  114. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 14, 2013 at 9:41 pm #

    misha marinsky: Orly Taitz and Joseph Farah.

    Executioner too? Cool.

  115. avatar
    e.vattel April 14, 2013 at 9:43 pm #

    Executive Power and The Law of Nations in the Washington Administration

    “What constitutional source of power did the administration actually rely upon?”

    “Washington acted on the authority of the Take Care Clause, and the specific law he
    sought to execute was the law of nations.”

    http://lawreview.richmond.edu/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/reinstein-462-master.pdf

  116. avatar
    SluggoJD April 14, 2013 at 9:54 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Cheer up. Nobody called you the antichrist yet.

    Well he does have the sign of the beast coded into his name.

    PaLaMaS

    PA = 16+1 = 17, it’s the first letter so subtract 1, and drop the first digit = 17-1 = 16 = 6

    LA = 12+1 = 13, add 1+3 = 4, and add 2 because it’s the 2nd letter = 6

    MA = 13+1 = 14, multiply by 3 because it’s the 3rd letter = 14×3 = 42, then add 4+2 = 6

    And the S stands for SATAN

    So his name is coded 666 SATAN, and that seems pretty close to me.

  117. avatar
    gorefan April 14, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

    e.vattel:
    Executive Power and The Law of Nations in the Washington Administration

    “What constitutional source of power did the administration actually rely upon?”

    “Washington acted on the authority of the Take Care Clause, and the specific law he
    sought to execute was the law of nations.”

    http://lawreview.richmond.edu/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/reinstein-462-master.pdf

    “In 1797, the same question was brought before the Circuit Court of the United States for the district of Connecticut, in the case of Isaac Williams, and Ch.J. Ellsworth ruled, that the common law of this country remained as it was before the revolution.” James Kent, Commentaries on American Law.

  118. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater April 14, 2013 at 10:11 pm #

    gorefan: “In 1797, the same question was brought before the Circuit Court of the United States for the district of Connecticut, in the case of Isaac Williams, and Ch.J. Ellsworth ruled, that the common law of this country remained as it was before the revolution.”James Kent, Commentaries on American Law.

    I see Garrett Pappit is bored

  119. avatar
    Butterfly Bilderberg April 14, 2013 at 10:44 pm #

    TruthandFreedom:
    I say let all the crap be aired on public tv, all channels… and if its true obama and his regime be handcuffed and walked into gitmo.If innocent… those bringing the case be walked into gitmo… Let’s get this crap done!!Let’s make it TRANSPARENT and make all media cover it with no editing!ALL LIVE and OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR VIEWING!

    Allow me to introduce you to the concept of due process — a concept completely foreign to birthers:

    “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, NOR BE DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY OR PROPERTY WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

    Constitution of the United States, Amendment V.

  120. avatar
    Paper April 14, 2013 at 10:48 pm #

    Besides the point Dr. C makes about evidence not resolving anything for conspiracy theorists, this particular matter does not deserve such respect. It is not worthy of being aired in such a way, much less requiring all media cover it, with or without editing. Such a public farce in this matter would have nothing to do with truth. Find some actual evidence that Hawaii itself has committed fraud or that it has been defrauded in this matter, then you probably wouldn’t even have to force media to cover it anyway; it would be everywhere. Some real evidence is all the birthers need. Then people would listen. Unfortunately, they may need to travel to a parallel universe to find any such evidence.

    TruthandFreedom:
    I say let all the crap be aired on public tv, all channels… and if its true obama and his regime be handcuffed and walked into gitmo.If innocent… those bringing the case be walked into gitmo… Let’s get this crap done!!Let’s make it TRANSPARENT and make all media cover it with no editing!ALL LIVE and OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR VIEWING!

  121. avatar
    misha marinsky April 14, 2013 at 10:51 pm #

    e.vattel: “Washington acted on the authority of the Take Care Clause, and the specific law he sought to execute was the law of nations.”

    Your point is…?

  122. avatar
    Rickey April 15, 2013 at 1:06 am #

    e.vattel:
    Executive Power and The Law of Nations in the Washington Administration

    “What constitutional source of power did the administration actually rely upon?”

    “Washington acted on the authority of the Take Care Clause, and the specific law he
    sought to execute was the law of nations.”

    Which is in reference to international relations and has absolutely nothing to do with domestic matters. As the article notes, “Moreover, every nation, according to Vattel, has the sovereign right to determine its own form of government…” (p. 407)

  123. avatar
    e.vattel April 15, 2013 at 3:20 am #

    Vattel consists of 4 parts. The 1st are forming a country and a constitution. The last are Embassies and War.

    Wish you all would get your head out the sand. Vattel’s book is law in this country. Obama as President violates it.

    The Supreme Court does not limit Vattel to 1758 and 1773. The court uses his name in later editions.

    These later editions have natural born citizens are born to citizen parents. Just like the 1758 and 1773.

    The US used Vattel in the War of 1812.

    Washington received a degree from Harvard College in Vattel’s Law of Nations.

    Why doesn’t obama visit Mt. Vernon maybe he’s afraid of the Vattel Ghost.

    Bet the lost library book is in Washington’s crypt.

    No Vattel no United States.

  124. avatar
    The Magic M April 15, 2013 at 4:11 am #

    e.vattel: Vattel’s book is law in this country.

    No, it’s not. You might try to make a case that his book influenced lawmakers drafting laws (which ones exactly?), but Vattel’s book is not “law” by any definition of the word, just like the Bible isn’t law, or “Lord of the Rings”.

    e.vattel: Washington received a degree from Harvard College in Vattel’s Law of Nations.

    And if he received a degree on the Nordic Edda, does that make the Edda law?

    e.vattel: Why doesn’t obama visit Mt. Vernon maybe he’s afraid of the Vattel Ghost.

    Get lost, troll.

    e.vattel: Bet the lost library book is in Washington’s crypt.

    Sure it is, he needs it in the afterlife to tell God he isn’t really God because he wasn’t born of two God parents.

    e.vattel: No Vattel no United States

    Sure, that’s why you learned about Vattel in school. Or at least your father did. Or your grandfather. No? Well, I wonder why that is…

    Say, is there a special version of Mt. Rushmore in your little bizarro world that includes Vattel’s head?

  125. avatar
    The Magic M April 15, 2013 at 4:28 am #

    Butterfly Bilderberg: Obama’s name
    and SSN match.

    Which the e-Verify result that birthers love to toss around proves, too, since neither “never issued” nor “does not match” are checked. Although birthers, including Orly in court filings, like to claim the e-Verify result means “does not match”.
    And while it’s sometimes funny to watch birthers trying to claim somebody saying “A” actually means he said “not A” in a convoluted way, watching them claim “[ ] does not match” actually means “[x] does not match” is outright painful.

  126. avatar
    Kate1230 April 15, 2013 at 4:43 am #

    e.vattel: Vattel consists of 4 parts. The 1st are forming a country and a constitution. The last are Embassies and War.

    Wish you all would get your head out the sand. Vattel’s book is law in this country. Obama as President violates it.

    How do you apply Vattel’s writings on the state and religion to the United States? Or do you just ignore the things that don’t corroborate your statement?

  127. avatar
    Scientist April 15, 2013 at 6:12 am #

    e.vattel: Washington received a degree from Harvard College in Vattel’s Law of Nations.

    George Washington never got a college degree. He had to stop his education when his father died. He never attended Harvard. He got a surveyor’s certificate from William and Mary. He had no legal training.

  128. avatar
    Majority Will April 15, 2013 at 6:19 am #

    Gee. Another pathetic, lying birther jackass. Big surprise.

  129. avatar
    misha marinsky April 15, 2013 at 6:20 am #

    e.vattel: Vattel’s book is law in this country. Obama as President violates it.

    You are clinically insane. Get help.

  130. avatar
    Northland10 April 15, 2013 at 7:34 am #

    e.vattel: Vattel’s book is law in this country.

    Do you have some proof of this claim or is it law for those of your kind?

    You may need to research and respond quickly before the Doc decides to ban you again DancingRabbit/DraggingCanoe/Bushpilot1

  131. avatar
    Paper April 15, 2013 at 7:46 am #

    Don’t waste time with us. You have a whole country to try and convince.

    e.vattel:
    Wish you all would get your head out the sand. Vattel’s book is law in this country.

  132. avatar
    The Magic M April 15, 2013 at 7:50 am #

    Northland10: Do you have some proof of this claim or is it law for those of your kind?

    Well, he can always rehash the old birfer claim of “The Constitution references “The Law of Nations””… 😉

  133. avatar
    Dave B. April 15, 2013 at 10:06 am #

    Washington received an honorary LLD from Harvard during the Revolution. He was always too busy for much schooling.
    Other recipients of the same degree include Washington Irving, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Ralph Waldo Emerson, the Shah of Iran, Desmond Tutu, Mother Theresa and the King of Spain. Oh, and Al Gore’s got one. Reckon he agrees with you?

    e.vattel: Washington received a degree from Harvard College in Vattel’s Law of Nations.

  134. avatar
    misha marinsky April 15, 2013 at 10:17 am #

    Northland10: DancingRabbit/DraggingCanoe/Bushpilot1

    Schmuck1987

  135. avatar
    misha marinsky April 15, 2013 at 10:19 am #

    Paper: You have a whole country to try and convince.

    Start with the Supreme Court.

  136. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 15, 2013 at 1:40 pm #

    You know, the far-right used to make similar complaints, saying that the only American presidents that failed to visit the D-Day beaches in Normandy were Clinton and Obama.

    Then the media noted that very few presidents, left, right, or center, have been to the D-Day beaches. So they’ve shifted the lie to Mt. Vernon.

    I guess next they’ll rip Obama for not visiting Ford’s Theater.

  137. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 15, 2013 at 2:07 pm #

    Kiwiwriter: I guess next they’ll rip Obama for not visiting Ford’s Theater.

    Another good story ruined by overchecking!! It looks like Obama has been there several times. Tricky devil!

  138. avatar
    Rickey April 15, 2013 at 4:04 pm #

    e.vattel:
    Vattel’s book is law in this country. .

    Really? If that’s the case, it’s time for us to invade a country and help ourselves to some women.

    How many people in the history of the U.S. have been charged with violating Vattel’s book?

  139. avatar
    misha marinsky April 15, 2013 at 4:55 pm #

    e.vattel: Wish you all would get your head out the sand. Vattel’s book is law in this country.

    Do the walls talk to you?

  140. avatar
    misha marinsky April 15, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Those late night low-budget penis-enlargement pill ads have more credibility than Zullo.

    I’m addicted to placebos.

  141. avatar
    misha marinsky April 15, 2013 at 5:04 pm #

    john: This is another classic example where RC takes something “Out of Context”

    I like how you use “quotes,” even if they are not “necessary.” Like “this.”

  142. avatar
    richCares April 15, 2013 at 5:41 pm #

    ‘Vattel’s book is law in this country.’
    then why are we discussing gun regulations, Vattel believes in banning them.

  143. avatar
    donna April 15, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

    e.vattel: Vattel’s book is law in this country. .

    really? until the birthers 2-parent erroneous french translation, how many heard of vattel?

    from larousse for the french “parent”:

    relative, relation

    un proche parent …… a close relative ou relation
    un lointain parent, un parent éloigné ……. a distant relative ou relation
    un parent du c’té paternel/maternel ……. a relation on the father’s/mother’s side
    nous sommes parents par ma femme …….we’re related through my wife
    ce sont des parents en ligne directe/par alliance ………they’re blood relations/related by marriage

    vattel wrote “parens” to mean RELATIVES – birthers took the word “parens/parents” and translated it to mean 2 PARENTS

  144. avatar
    Plantmaster April 15, 2013 at 6:11 pm #

    Yoda: It reminds me of the scene in the Caine Mutiny were Bogart’s Captain Queeg advanced a paranoid, complex theory about missing strawberries even after some sailors had confessed to stealing them.
    *************
    Capt. Queeg: according to my wife, the ultimate nut job. Though I’ve seen enough birthers on this site who could give him a run for his money…

  145. avatar
    Plantmaster April 15, 2013 at 6:22 pm #

    e.vattel:
    Executive Power and The Law of Nations in the Washington Administration

    “What constitutional source of power did the administration actually rely upon?”

    “Washington acted on the authority of the Take Care Clause, and the specific law he
    sought to execute was the law of nations.”
    *******
    e.vattel April 15, 2013 at 3:20 am e.vattel(Quote) #
    Vattel consists of 4 parts. The 1st are forming a country and a constitution. The last are Embassies and War.

    Wish you all would get your head out the sand. Vattel’s book is law in this country. Obama as President violates it.

    The Supreme Court does not limit Vattel to 1758 and 1773. The court uses his name in later editions.

    These later editions have natural born citizens are born to citizen parents. Just like the 1758 and 1773.

    The US used Vattel in the War of 1812.

    Washington received a degree from Harvard College in Vattel’s Law of Nations.

    Why doesn’t obama visit Mt. Vernon maybe he’s afraid of the Vattel Ghost.

    Bet the lost library book is in Washington’s crypt.

    No Vattel no United States.
    *************

    Excuse me, oh clueless am ha’aretz–but where did you dig up this twaddle? On this matter, you are no more intelligent than Bob Gard/Obobma. Did your parents have any children who graduated from kindergarten?

  146. avatar
    Dave B. April 15, 2013 at 6:32 pm #

    Haven’t you heard? Some guy invited this other guy to dinner a couple hundred years ago– we don’t even know if the other guy even showed up, but since then it hasn’t mattered what Vattel really said.

    e.vattel: Wish you all would get your head out the sand. Vattel’s book is law in this country.

  147. avatar
    misha marinsky April 15, 2013 at 6:57 pm #

    Plantmaster: am ha’aretz

    Emmie is a schmuck.

  148. avatar
    Keith April 15, 2013 at 7:15 pm #

    misha marinsky: I’m addicted to placebos.

    I like the genuine ersatz placebos myself.

  149. avatar
    Paper April 15, 2013 at 10:58 pm #

    Oh, I don’t know. Maybe he should start small, say, with traffic court?

    misha marinsky: Start with the Supreme Court.

  150. avatar
    The Magic M April 16, 2013 at 4:50 am #

    Rickey: How many people in the history of the U.S. have been charged with violating Vattel’s book?

    Don’t you know that SCOTUS really stands for “Séance Club of the Undead Souls”? They’re talking to Vattel’s ghost before rendering any decision. They just covered up how their ouija board broke when they were debating Obamacare. Einstein told me Vattel was furious, but the Afterlife Appeals Agency rejected his complaint, stating “nah I just don’t feel you here, bro” (Jesus H. Christ, concurring opinion).

  151. avatar
    Paper April 16, 2013 at 6:08 am #

    I beat it on Judge Judy. The things she said to the plaintiff!

    Rickey:

    How many people in the history of the U.S. have been charged with violating Vattel’s book?

  152. avatar
    Lupin April 16, 2013 at 6:44 am #

    e.vattel:
    Vattel consists of 4 parts. The 1st are forming a country and a constitution. The last are Embassies and War.

    Wish you all would get your head out the sand. Vattel’s book is law in this country. Obama as President violates it.

    The Supreme Court does not limit Vattel to 1758 and 1773. The court uses his name in later editions.

    These later editions have natural born citizens are born to citizen parents. Just like the 1758 and 1773.

    The US used Vattel in the War of 1812.

    Washington received a degree from Harvard College in Vattel’s Law of Nations.

    Why doesn’t obama visit Mt. Vernon maybe he’s afraid of the Vattel Ghost.

    Bet the lost library book is in Washington’s crypt.

    No Vattel no United States.

    I, a French jurist, (& others), have conclusively (& repeatedly) proved on this site that there is absolutely nothing in Vattel’s writings (even if they were relevant) that would disqualify President Obama.

    Bithers have purposefully mistranslated, misused and misapplied Vattel’s treatise. You are an ignoramus quoting a foreign language law book that you obviously do not understand.

  153. avatar
    misha marinsky April 16, 2013 at 8:19 am #

    The Magic M: Don’t you know that SCOTUS really stands for “Séance Club of the Undead Souls”? They’re talking to Vattel’s ghost before rendering any decision. They just covered up how their ouija board broke when they were debating Obamacare. Einstein told me Vattel was furious, but the Afterlife Appeals Agency rejected his complaint, stating “nah I just don’t feel you here, bro” (Jesus H. Christ, concurring opinion).

    I want to confirm the Magic M’s experience. It happened to me, too. Thanks, M!

  154. avatar
    misha marinsky April 16, 2013 at 8:22 am #

    Lupin: You are an ignoramus quoting a foreign language law book that you obviously do not understand.

    Emmieway isway away oolfay.

  155. avatar
    JD Reed April 16, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

    E.Vattel:
    “The US used Vattel in the War of 1812.”
    Pray tell how, and cite specific proof in the form of contemperaneous accounts, such as newspapers, letters, etc.

    “Washington received a degree from Harvard College in Vattel’s Law of Nations”
    Washington indeed received an HONORARY degree from Harvard in 1776, doctor of laws. Please cite proof, again using contemperaneous documentation, that Harvard or any other entity even mentioned Vattek in warding Washington this honorary degree.

  156. avatar
    JD Reed April 16, 2013 at 12:43 pm #

    Palamas:
    To act as though a Reagan/Obama comparison is legitimate is questioning mental faculties. Obama was supposedly born of a father who was never even a permanent resident, he was a foreign national. No other president knowingly stated this even from the beginning (Arthur hid it, which is its own proof). Then he spent substantial time in other countries while growing up. The assertion that these are comparable in the least is at best ignorant and at worst, stupid. Again, be honest.

    First of all, wasn’t Reagan’s BC created after he became a mature adult? My understanding is that he never had a BC nor was one required of him until he joined the military in WWII and Uncle Sam insisted. His BC was then created by relying on affidavits of people who could attest to young Ronnie’s birth. When you say substantial time growing up in other “countries,” you are not being accurate. No one can show that he spent his childhood in any foreign country other than Indonesia, so to be perfectly accurate you should have used the singular, not the plural. If you wanted to be 100 percent honest, you would have said country, not countries. Also, since the information is available, you should have said “four years” spent abroad — the specific, rather than “substantial time,” the general, which invites the hyperpartisan to imagine a much longer period than four years.

  157. avatar
    Plantmaster April 17, 2013 at 3:18 pm #

    misha marinsky

    Plantmaster: am ha’aretz

    Emmie is a schmuck.

    *************
    I was trying to be polite. I actually think he’s a putzel; he’s not mature enough to be a schmuck.

  158. avatar
    gorefan April 17, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

    JD Reed: First of all, wasn’t Reagan’s BC created after he became a mature adult? My understanding is that he never had a BC nor was one required of him until he joined the military in WWII and Uncle Sam insisted.

    Possibly, here is a picture of it:

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/voterid.asp

    Both the attending physician and the state registrar signed it in 1942. The BC itself has an unusual penmanship.

    President Reagan joined the Army Reserve in 1937.

    “Ronald Wilson Reagan enrolled in a series of home-study Army Extension Courses on 18 March 1935. After completing 14 of the courses, he enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve on 29 April 1937, as a Private assigned to Troop B, 322nd Cavalry at Des Moines, Iowa. He was appointed Second Lieutenant in the Officers Reserve Corps of the Cavalry on 25 May 1937. On June 18 of that year Reagan, who had just moved to Los Angeles to begin his film career, accepted his Officer’s Commission and was assigned to the 323rd Cavalry.”

    http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/reference/military.html

  159. avatar
    gorefan April 17, 2013 at 3:31 pm #

    Mike Zullo is interviewed on Mark Gillar’s show – the misinformation is absolutely astonishing.

    Zullo – I believe most other Presidential candidates released their BCs.

    Gillar – Dr. Fukino says BC is half written and half typed but the pdf isn’t.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/markgillar/2013/04/17/obama-eligbility-probe-prepares-to-enter-next-phase

    It also sounds like Zullo is taking his talking points from Butterdezillion. I’m betting she is the source of their “new” information.

  160. avatar
    Thinker April 17, 2013 at 4:03 pm #

    That interview is hilarious! You can follow Zullo and Gillar as they fall into all the usual cognitive traps that lead conspiracy theorists to be chronically and spectacularly wrong. It would be beyond absurd if Zullo’s new irrefutable evidence is Butterdezillion’s five-part Grand Unified Theory of Birferism, but I think you might be right.

    gorefan:
    It also sounds like Zullo is taking his talking points from Butterdezillion.I’m betting she is the source of their “new” information.

  161. avatar
    gorefan April 17, 2013 at 4:14 pm #

    Thinker: Zullo and Gillar as they fall into all the usual cognitive traps

    I’m pretty sure Gillar has been told about most of his misstatements (especially about both the short form and long form missing raised seals), so he is either stupid or intentional being misleading.

    And in discussing which came first the Guthrie photo or the pdf, they completely ignore the AP copy. More just ignoring the evidence.

  162. avatar
    Majority Will April 17, 2013 at 4:51 pm #

    gorefan: I’m pretty sure Gillar has been told about most of his misstatements (especially about both the short form and long form missing raised seals), so he is either stupid or intentional being misleading.

    And in discussing which came first the Guthrie photo or the pdf, they completely ignore the AP copy.More just ignoring the evidence.

    “he is either stupid or intentional being misleading”

    It can be both. The fear mongering birther morons posting here are proof.

  163. avatar
    JPotter April 18, 2013 at 1:00 am #

    Having corresponded briefly with him, I say Gillar is a shill. It may be doublethink, but I don’t think so. It’s the usual “As we all know … *wink, wink, nudge, nudge” routine that attempts to take advantage of social norms: default nonconfrontation and desire for recognition and acceptance.
    If it wasn’t so laughable, it’d be condescending.

  164. avatar
    The Magic M April 18, 2013 at 5:54 am #

    gorefan: I’m pretty sure Gillar has been told about most of his misstatements (especially about both the short form and long form missing raised seals), so he is either stupid or intentional being misleading.

    Gillar is a snake-oil salesman. Whenever I confronted him on Twitter, he fell into a meth-binge like frenzy (posting like a dozen answers to a single tweet, creating my own “the dumb Magic M page” on his website etc.), not of the Orly-crazy kind but the “whenever someone doubts me in public, I must lash back as hard and often as I can kind” that I’ve come to love from professional quack medicine proponents whenever someone calls them out on their pseudo-scientific crap.
    He’s not a true believer, he’s one of the propaganda artists that try to push the issue forward.

  165. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater April 18, 2013 at 12:23 pm #

    gorefan: Mike Zullo is interviewed on Mark Gillar’s show – the misinformation is absolutely astonishing.Zullo – I believe most other Presidential candidates released their BCs.Gillar – Dr. Fukino says BC is half written and half typed but the pdf isn’t.http://www.blogtalkradio.com/markgillar/2013/04/17/obama-eligbility-probe-prepares-to-enter-next-phaseIt also sounds like Zullo is taking his talking points from Butterdezillion. I’m betting she is the source of their “new” information.

    So what exactly was new that Zullo revealed that stopped Mark Gillar from debating Frank Arduini?

  166. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater April 18, 2013 at 12:26 pm #

    gorefan: I’m pretty sure Gillar has been told about most of his misstatements (especially about both the short form and long form missing raised seals), so he is either stupid or intentional being misleading.And in discussing which came first the Guthrie photo or the pdf, they completely ignore the AP copy. More just ignoring the evidence.

    I’ve pointed out many of the problems in Gillar’s logic. His response was to block me from contacting him through email, twitter and youtube. I think he gets a cut of the birther bucks from Zullo.

  167. avatar
    donna April 18, 2013 at 1:41 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: His response was to block me from contacting him through email, twitter and youtube.

    ANOTHER first amendment, free speech, constitutional “patriot”

  168. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 18, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: His response was to block me from contacting him through email, twitter and youtube.

    When you’re doing God’s work you don’t want to be distracted by facts and rational thinking.