Main Menu

Unresponsive

I’m not talking about how the emergency medical technician describes a body found at the scene of an accident, but how the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Cold Case Posse’s fails to respond to some pretty serious charges leveled against them.

Photo of Mike Zullo holding enlarged Obama Long Form birth certificateThe latest in a string of charges of Posse misconduct is the disclosure that Xerox WorkCentre machines account for pretty much all Posse claims of forgery in the President’s birth certificate PDF file, at least all attributed to artifacts in the file (other Posse mistakes are shown in other ways). This information proves that a string of “expert reports” from the Posse were indeed not really “expert” at all. To highlight their silence, I even added a Cold Case Posse silence timer in the right sidebar and wrote an article: “Cold Case Posse: The clock is ticking.” That was added to exert a little pressure, to goad them into a response, but it hasn’t worked. The Cold Case Posse remains unresponsive, and I should have known this is how it would be.

The 73 days of silence indicated by my timer today pales in comparison to their silence on an even more damning issue. While the Xerox evidence proves that the Posse’s imaging experts are incompetent, an earlier report on this blog proved that they lied when Zullo claimed to have a 1961 vital statistics manual that said the coding on the Long Form was wrong (he used a 1968 manual with different codes and called it 1961). Lying and fabricating evidence is a much more serious charge than incompetence, and yet Mike Zullo and the Cold Case Posse remain unresponsive regarding this serious misconduct that I reported back on July 18, 2012, in my article: “Code ‘9’: The Cold Case Posse’s big lie.” In fact, we’ve been waiting for:

[countup date=2012/07/18-15:50:00][dhmstimer][/countup]

,

127 Responses to Unresponsive

  1. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 6, 2013 at 10:34 am #

    Oh, I’m sure John will be by with a fresh batch of excuses.
    …And by fresh batch, I mean the same old stale ones.

  2. avatar
    The Magic M September 6, 2013 at 10:46 am #

    Lying and fabricating evidence is a much more serious charge than incompetence

    Obviously, to them “it is of no concern”. They’re trying their best to clear the President, y’know? 😉

  3. avatar
    alg September 6, 2013 at 11:07 am #

    It is of no concern 🙂

  4. avatar
    bamalaw September 6, 2013 at 11:07 am #

    Can we get one of those clocks for the Alabama Supreme Court?

  5. avatar
    john September 6, 2013 at 11:19 am #

    “That was added to exert a little pressure, to goad them into a response, but it hasn’t worked. The Cold Case Posse remains unresponsive, and I should have known this is how it would be.”

    Doc, havn’t you been listening to Gallup on last few radio shows?

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2013 at 11:21 am #

    No, I have a hard time stomaching Gallups. All I heard was “it’s of no concern,” hardly a credible response.

    Gallups is not an official spokesman for the Cold Case Posse in the first place, so even if he had said something, it wouldn’t be a CCP response. And since Gallups is not part of the CCP (which by charter must be citizens of Maricopa County), what he says is hearsay, of no more validity than anybody else who claims to talk to Zullo.

    john: Doc, havn’t you been listening to Gallup on last few radio shows?

  7. avatar
    john September 6, 2013 at 11:22 am #

    Didn’t Mark Gallar already respond. Apparently, they are testing and the findings DON’T support NBC’s findings.

  8. avatar
    Curious George September 6, 2013 at 11:26 am #

    The other question they fail to answer is about their finances and the expenditures made keeping the Cold Case Posse Clown Car on the road. How many taxpayer dollars have been used? When will Chief Chef Z dish up some answers?

  9. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2013 at 11:29 am #

    Is Mark Gillar an official spokesperson for the Cold Case Posse? And a comment at YouTube by anyone isn’t a response. Whatever Gillar says is hearsay.

    john: Didn’t Mark Gallar already respond. Apparently, they are testing and the findings DON’T support NBC’s findings.

  10. avatar
    John Reilly September 6, 2013 at 11:32 am #

    I see John is back.

    John, you have not explained why the Nordyke birth certificates show “Caucasian.” Last I heard, not a country.

    Time to stop ducking the issue John.

    Be a man (or whatever you are) and admit that the point you tried to make about “African” was a lie.

  11. avatar
    American Mzungu September 6, 2013 at 11:37 am #

    John, you also owe nbc an answer to the question(s) he asked you in the “Cold Case Posse tests Xerox (or not)” thread..

  12. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater September 6, 2013 at 11:40 am #

    john: “That was added to exert a little pressure, to goad them into a response, but it hasn’t worked. The Cold Case Posse remains unresponsive, and I should have known this is how it would be.”Doc, havn’t you been listening to Gallup on last few radio shows?

    Has the Cold case posse Deputized Gallups? Not once have they actually addressed it.

  13. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater September 6, 2013 at 11:41 am #

    john: Didn’t Mark Gallar already respond. Apparently, they are testing and the findings DON’T support NBC’s findings.

    Did the Cold Case Posse deputize Mark Gillar?

  14. avatar
    justlw September 6, 2013 at 11:48 am #

    john:
    Didn’t Mark Gallar already respond.Apparently, they are testing and the findings DON’T support NBC’s findings.

    Huh. It’s almost like they’ve come to a conclusion before they’ve completed gathering evidence to support it. That’s some good law-enforcin’, there.

  15. avatar
    Curious George September 6, 2013 at 11:51 am #

    John:

    Doc, havn’t you been listening to Gallup on last few radio shows?

    Once again, the Lie-O-Meter needle went off the scale and needed re-calibration when Gal-loops again spoke about Corporal Z’s “decades” of law enforcement experience. Talk about disinformation. Things must not be going so well. Gal-loops spoke about the claims the investigation is a “SHAM” and now the critics are persons of interest. That was a brilliant move to openly talk about the “sham investigation” on the air Rev. Gal-loops. Those who didn’t know about the sham now know.

    Are you still a believer, John?

  16. avatar
    JPotter September 6, 2013 at 11:55 am #

    A radio blogger from one end of the country is the spokesman for a … uh … volunteer auxiliary of county sheriff’s dept at the other end of the country?

    This is the arrangement that brings down Presidents? *snicker*

    Could you ratchet up the silly another notch, please, john?

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2013 at 12:11 pm #

    The Phoenix New Times characterizes Gallups response as:

    “Gallups responds by crapping his pants for a solid 15 minutes on his radio show,”

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/09/joe_arpaios_birther_mouthpiece.php

    john: Doc, havn’t you been listening to Gallup on last few radio shows?

  18. avatar
    Lupin September 6, 2013 at 12:14 pm #

    In my experience, liars and conmen never ever admit to their offenses, even when faced with absolutely incontrovertible evidence. At best, they fake repentance, hiding behind lame excuses. But fessing up? Never.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

    You would know better than I would. Is the Alabama Supreme Court taking an inordinately long time with this appeal?

    bamalaw: Can we get one of those clocks for the Alabama Supreme Court?

  20. avatar
    JPotter September 6, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    Doc, you could repost this “Unresponsive” article everyday, perhaps in a survey form, with all date reference updating automatically. Hell, it could be its own blog, the Daily Birther Dally.

    Just a imagine, a whole sidebar of timers, counting away to —infinity—.

    Throw in the Nat’l Debt Clock for good measure! 😉

  21. avatar
    Sactosintolerant September 6, 2013 at 12:38 pm #

    This may already exist, but I think it’d be helpful to have a single page somewhere that lists all CCP claims of proof of forgery along with any proofs that the claims are BS… and rebuttals by the CCP, if they’ve made any on specific debunkings.

    Unfortunately, I don’t even know which claims the CCP still accept and which claims they have abandoned.

  22. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 12:54 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: “Gallups responds by crapping his pants for a solid 15 minutes on his radio show,”

    Crap is the operative word for the entire operation.

  23. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 6, 2013 at 12:56 pm #

    john:
    Apparently, they are testing and the findings DON’T support NBC’s findings.

    According to whom?
    Any time I see a birth use qualifiers like “Apparently” or “Obviously”, I know they are lying.
    Actually strike that! Any time I see a birther say ANYTHING, I know they are lying.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The Phoenix New Times characterizes Gallups response as:

    “Gallups responds by crapping his pants for a solid 15 minutes on his radio show,”

    Which is sadly STILL more enjoyable than most pop music on the airwaves today.

  24. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 6, 2013 at 1:14 pm #

    I do like the comment section on that link to the Phoenix New Times story. The same scotte who frequently gets pointed at laughed at here, gets his butt owned there as well.

  25. avatar
    AROD September 6, 2013 at 1:23 pm #

    In the Times article is @scotte5 the same scotte here? If yes, Doc can you go ahead and ban him for life from this site? His ranting is so unorginal and idiotic that we should have a higher standard for birthers to post here. I pasted his remark below:

    “this site is pretty wild, but for now is a sort of neutral arena for we birthers whom are usually always banned at antibirther sites, and vice versa, is my understanding. but consider this. the obots (internet warriors for obamjevich) have been proclaiming this a dead or non issue for five years now.

    my focus in this caper has always been the behavior surround the “president” who proclaimed a new era of transparency, which is in itself to me a red flag.

    to their credit, and with the aid of alinsky political tactical skills, the obot have employed ridicule and character assassination brilliantly. they have executed smart campaign devices that come in the form of distraction, miss information and even censorship in various internet venues.

    at the top of the entire heap of information out there today remains, the original obvious question. why doesn’t Obama simply show the original birth certificate in-the-vault-in Hawaii ??

    my conclusion is, he can’t. either it doesn’t exist, or it won’t match up with the virtual pdf on the white house website right now.

    then there is the singular example of the draft registration, an anomaly that exists as a sole example to this date, the only one with a two digit stamp.

    the obots have managed to explain away anything that is out of place, contrived or syndicated, to protect the identity of the residents in the white house.

    why then, if there has never been a question, do the obots continue to escalate their defense, rather than just walking away.why would they be so interested in stopping the relatively benign process of vetting their elected leader, even within the advent of his reelection.

    there are still more questions than answers, but the antibirthers have shown a nervousness I haven’t seen in the close to three years I have been engaged in this. the purposefull bag of obot tricks and antics is becoming empty, and the average citizen previously persuaded by groupthink, are just now becoming aware that this may not just be a topic of silliness as the “president” has told.

    there are a fantastic amount of coincidences and holes in the provenance of the American president now. the people dissuaded before, are no longer afraid to ask the questions to which they are entitled to as Americans. the very same people who used to “question authority” are now the liberals in the way of finding the entire truth. people should have paid more attention from the beginning. and there is the tenet of “beware of the person that says, “trust us, we’re your government, and we know what’s best for you”. in today’s world, maybe not so much anymore.”

  26. avatar
    misha marinsky September 6, 2013 at 1:31 pm #

    john: Doc, havn’t you been listening to Gallup on last few radio shows?

    I don’t know about Dr C, but Gallup’s show keeps me regular.

  27. avatar
    misha marinsky September 6, 2013 at 1:35 pm #

    Lupin: In my experience, liars and conmen never ever admit to their offenses, even when faced with absolutely incontrovertible evidence.

    Spiro Agnew, ‘nolo contendere.’

  28. avatar
    misha marinsky September 6, 2013 at 1:40 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Which is sadly STILL more enjoyable than most pop music on the airwaves today.

    Pop music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEfFOd8TDZA

  29. avatar
    alg September 6, 2013 at 2:08 pm #

    “john: Doc, haven’t you been listening to Gallup on last few radio shows?”

    It is of no concern 🙂

  30. avatar
    Publius September 6, 2013 at 2:22 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Is Mark Gillar an official spokesperson for the Cold Case Posse?

    He has been in the past, sort of, at least to the extent that he produced their official video.

    Doc, I would like to see you add that second timer – the one that’s up to almost 415 days now – to the sidebar as well.

  31. avatar
    Publius September 6, 2013 at 2:24 pm #

    Lupin: In my experience, liars and conmen never ever admit to their offenses, even when faced with absolutely incontrovertible evidence. At best, they fake repentance, hiding behind lame excuses. But fessing up? Never.

    Yep.

  32. avatar
    Jim September 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm #

    10 ways to tell if Someone is Lying
    http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/22/lies-trust-relationships-opinions-trust_slide_3.html

    3. Seek Details – Liars stories often lack details…or in Zullo’s case, avoid any inquiry that might ask for details that he can’t provide.

    6. Signs of stress – Look for dilated pupils and a rise in vocal pitch. Can’t you just see those dilated pupils while listening to Gallops voice rise in pitch? 😀

    9. Beware Those Who Protest Too Much – Someone who consciously is trying to make you think he’s honest–for instance, by injecting the phrase “to be honest”–may be lying. Most people assume they will be trusted most of the time. If someone expects otherwise, take a moment to ask yourself why. In Zullo’s case, we know why.

    10. Know Thyself – One reason liars succeed is that listeners don’t really want to know the truth, says psychologist Feldman. So be honest with yourself about what it is you want to hear. You may wish to believe…
    JOHN! That’s identifying you!!! 😀

    Wonder how well Zullo and Gallops would do if we hooked up their radio program to a Voice Stress Analyzer…couldn’t do any more harm than all those irony meters they’ve already destroyed! 😆

  33. avatar
    Publius September 6, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

    I listened to some of Gallups’ pants-crap-fest. He sounds stressed.

    He went on and on about how he reaches millions and millions of people.

    Well, I guess he has some radio station at his disposal. But the video I viewed on their “mega-viral YouTube site,” even with the publicity from the Phoenix New Times’ site and from Dr. C’s, has fewer than 5,000 views, more than a week after being posted.

  34. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 6, 2013 at 3:18 pm #

    misha marinsky: Pop music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEfFOd8TDZA

    Mmmm New Wave…

  35. avatar
    Sef September 6, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

    Sactosintolerant:
    This may already exist, but I think it’d be helpful to have a single page somewhere that lists all CCP claims of proof of forgery along with any proofs that the claims are BS… and rebuttals by the CCP, if they’ve made any on specific debunkings.

    Unfortunately, I don’t even know which claims the CCP still accept and which claims they have abandoned.

    You could check NBC’s site: https://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/xerox-workflow/the-xerox-workcentre-workflow-successes .

  36. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2013 at 4:58 pm #

    The CCP makes contradictory claims, but never admits that any of them are wrong. So it’s difficult to say what claims they support and which they do not. The best source I can suggest is the Zullo affidavit filed in Alabama, in which many prior claims do not appear.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/141557773/05-14-2013-AFFIDAVIT-OF-MICHAEL-ZULLO-HUGH-McINNISH-et-al-vs-BETH-CHAPMAN-in-her-capacity-as-Secretary-of-State-SUPREME-COURT-OF-ALABAMA-Case

    Sactosintolerant: This may already exist, but I think it’d be helpful to have a single page somewhere that lists all CCP claims of proof of forgery along with any proofs that the claims are BS… and rebuttals by the CCP, if they’ve made any on specific debunkings.

    Unfortunately, I don’t even know which claims the CCP still accept and which claims they have abandoned.

  37. avatar
    Publius September 6, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

    It would be amusing for someone to create a master list of “claims of proof of forgery” put forth by the Clown Cars Posse, along with really clear and complete documentation of where each and every one of them has been debunked, including links to the debunking articles or sources.

    And then take that list of debunked claims to Carl Gallups and ask him to cover it on his radio show.

    And watch him refuse, of course.

  38. avatar
    JPotter September 6, 2013 at 5:12 pm #

    C’mon, guys, they’re just asking questions.

    Doesn’t mean they actually want answers LOL

    I thought Gallups was just another online radio blogger … does he have access to actual, honest to goodness over-the-air broadcasting at a brick-and-mortar radio station?

    If, so …. why?

  39. avatar
    JPotter September 6, 2013 at 5:32 pm #

    Publius: It would be amusing for someone to create a master list of “claims of proof of forgery” put forth by the Clown Cars Posse, along with really clear and complete documentation of where each and every one of them has been debunked, including links to the debunking articles or sources.

    I suggest a matrix.
    Claims in horizontal rows, listed in chronological order.
    Columns for each CCCP outburst (presser, ebook, laffidavit).
    Could lead to interesting results. Tracking claims made over time. Reboots. Evolutions. Conflicts.
    Perhaps a final column for “Current Status” of each claim 😉

    This would require watching their crap, and reading their crap, too much for my sensitive digestion.

  40. avatar
    Jim September 6, 2013 at 5:35 pm #

    Sactosintolerant: “Unfortunately, I don’t even know which claims the CCP still accept and which claims they have abandoned.”

    Claims CCP Accept
    Secret VIP’s
    Congresspeople who cannot talk about it
    Any day now
    Send Money

    Claims CCP abandoned
    Everything else…they just can’t admit it lest they lose the birthers.

  41. avatar
    justlw September 6, 2013 at 5:54 pm #

    JPotter: I suggest a matrix.

    Doesn’t the Fogbow have a wiki somewhere? We could all pitch in.

    Susie could make costumes, and I’ll bring some folding chairs…

  42. avatar
    Curious George September 6, 2013 at 6:04 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The CCP makes contradictory claims, but never admits that any of them are wrong. So it’s difficult to say what claims they support and which they do not. The best source I can suggest is the Zullo affidavit filed in Alabama, in which many prior claims do not appear.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/141557773/05-14-2013-AFFIDAVIT-OF-MICHAEL-ZULLO-HUGH-McINNISH-et-al-vs-BETH-CHAPMAN-in-her-capacity-as-Secretary-of-State-SUPREME-COURT-OF-ALABAMA-Case

    And not a mention in his affidavit about the 1968 race codes deceptively called 1961 race codes. John, are you getting any of this?

    Speaking about evidence, here’s more to consider about the MCSO’s integrity.

    “AZ: Prosecutors in Capital Case Sit on Evidence of Detective’s Serial Lying Under Oath | The Open File”

    Wow! Serial Lying? Who would have thought? Is this part of the formal evidence training at the MCSO?

    http://www.prosecutorialaccountability.com/serial-lying-under-oath/

  43. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 6:08 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The best source I can suggest is the Zullo affidavit filed in Alabama, in which many prior claims do not appear.

    In addition to all his nonsensical “claims of forgery” Zullo makes a bunch of statements about his authority, the posse’s authority and the Sheriff’s authority that can best be described as baloney. (Paragraphs 6 thru 8.) Only one, paragraph 6, contains a grain of truth but it dates from territorial days when the sheriff often did call a posse to help with a situation requiring more manpower than he had but it was a temporary solution.

    The sheriff has no authority to confer peace officer powers on anyone. Only the state can do that through Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training and the authority is for individuals who are employed as peace officers. That includes paid officers and reserve officers but not posse members.

    Bottom line: Zullo and his posse have no police authority…..of any kind.

  44. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 6:14 pm #

    Curious George: Is this part of the formal evidence training at the MCSO?

    The detective worked for the Phoenix Police Department not the MCSO. But other than that the story, and others, are right on target: Saldate deserves to have gone to prison rather than retire with a pension.

  45. avatar
    Curious George September 6, 2013 at 6:31 pm #

    CarlOrcas: The detective worked for the Phoenix Police Department not the MCSO. But other than that the story, and others, are right on target: Saldate deserves to have gone to prison rather than retire with a pension.

    Good catch Carl. Thanks. Apparently there are issues with the Phoenix P.D.

    “The Phoenix Police Department and Saldate’s supervisors there should be ashamed of having given free rein to a lawless cop to misbehave again and again, undermining the integrity of the system of justice they were sworn to uphold. As should the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office, which continued to prosecute Saldate’s cases without bothering to disclose his pattern of misconduct.”

  46. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

    Curious George: Apparently there are issues with the Phoenix P.D.

    It looks like a pretty old case but I’m not sure. Here is more info on him:

    http://arizona-death-penalty-injustice-schurz.org/saldate-perjury.html#.UipZmT_9xOQ

  47. avatar
    Sactosintolerant September 6, 2013 at 7:04 pm #

    Publius:
    It would be amusing for someone to create a master list of “claims of proof of forgery” put forth by the Clown Cars Posse, along with really clear and complete documentation of where each and every one of them has been debunked, including links to the debunking articles or sources.

    That’s exactly what I was thinking. If someone had money to waste, it could even be placed as an ad in the Washington Times!

  48. avatar
    Curious George September 6, 2013 at 7:32 pm #

    CarlOrcas: It looks like a pretty old case but I’m not sure. Here is more info on him:

    http://arizona-death-penalty-injustice-schurz.org/saldate-perjury.html#.UipZmT_9xOQ

    A good quote from the link you provided, Carl.

    This applies to all law enforcement:

    “Perhaps most importantly,
    police lying intended to convict someone,
    whether thought to be guilty or innocent,
    is wrong because once it is discovered,
    it diminishes one of our most crucial “social goods”‑‑
    trust in government”

    Christopher Slobogin

  49. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2013 at 7:36 pm #

    Yes, it’s the same scott, and he is already banned. I don’t have standards for the quality of posts here, and ignorance is not a criterion. Disruptive commenting is mostly what concerns me. People who stay on topic, and engage in the give and take of discussion, even if they are liars and idiots, can post.

    AROD: If yes, Doc can you go ahead and ban him for life from this site? His ranting is so unorginal and idiotic that we should have a higher standard for birthers to post here.

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2013 at 8:05 pm #

    Gallups does have a real on-the-air radio slot for his “Freedom Friday” program. The station is WEBY 1330 AM, “Northwest Florida’s Talk Radio” in Milton, Florida.

    I heard somewhere that Freedom Friday is paid programming, but I don’t know for sure.

    If you saw the earlier version of this comment, ignore the part about broadcast power. His 4-6PM slot would be low power only in the Winter.

    JPotter: I thought Gallups was just another online radio blogger … does he have access to actual, honest to goodness over-the-air broadcasting at a brick-and-mortar radio station?

  51. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 8:31 pm #

    Curious George: This applies to all law enforcement:

    “Perhaps most importantly,
    police lying intended to convict someone,
    whether thought to be guilty or innocent,
    is wrong because once it is discovered,
    it diminishes one of our most crucial “social goods”‑‑
    trust in government”

    Christopher Slobogin

    Indeed. To the Maricopa County Attorney’s credit they now maintain a list of officers who have done this sort of stuff and it is public so defense lawyers can use it to impeach an officer’s from the get go.

  52. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 8:34 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I heard somewhere that Freedom Friday is paid programming, but I don’t know for sure.

    Given it’s location – both geographical and on the dial – that would certainly make sense.

    I am fascinated by the 79 watts of nighttime power. I’ve never seen anything under a couple hundred watts.

  53. avatar
    Curious George September 6, 2013 at 9:48 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Indeed. To the Maricopa County Attorney’s credit they now maintain a list of officers who have done this sort of stuff and it is public so defense lawyers can use it to impeach an officer’s from the get go.

    The police officers who have violated the public trust need to be put on an unemployed list.

  54. avatar
    Slartibartfast September 6, 2013 at 9:49 pm #

    Doc,

    I think that ultimately your policy forces you to eventually ban any birther who actually engages in discussion. Since the one thing that they cannot do is debate in good faith they never truly engage in the “give” of the discussion and they generally try to “take” what they have not earned. Eventually they either cross the line and you ban them or they become like the Maricopa CCCP—unresponsive.

    Not that there is any policy that would get the birthers to engage in honest debate…

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Yes, it’s the same scott, and he is already banned here. I don’t have standards for the quality of posts here, and ignorance is not a criterion. Disruptive commenting is mostly what concerns me. People who stay on topic, and engage in the give and take of discussion, even if they are liars and idiots, can post.

  55. avatar
    RanTalbott September 6, 2013 at 10:20 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I am fascinated by the 79 watts of nighttime power.

    Well, it _was_ 80, but the intern got careless with the cage doors, and one of the hamsters is on maternity leave.

  56. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 10:39 pm #

    Curious George: The police officers who have violated the public trust need to be put on an unemployed list.

    I agree. I would like to see POST (the state agency that licenses peace officers) get more aggressive about this sort of thing. If they revoke an officer’s certification they are finished.

  57. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 10:40 pm #

    RanTalbott: Well, it _was_ 80, but the intern got careless with the cage doors, and one of the hamsters is on maternity leave.

    LOL! Even at 80 watts the signal would only get across the parking lot. Very strange.

  58. avatar
    Slartibartfast September 6, 2013 at 10:48 pm #

    I know that AM stations all have to significantly reduce their power at sunset—it might be that 79 watts will go a lot farther than you think at night.

    CarlOrcas: LOL! Even at 80 watts the signal would only get across the parking lot. Very strange.

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2013 at 11:24 pm #

    Speaking of AM radio, I was working on a Habitat house yesterday, and come paid workmen were installing insulation. They brought a radio tuned to some AM station. It wasn’t right-wing talk radio or anything, but talk about dumbed down! I can see someone being seriously damaged by such daily fare.

    CarlOrcas: OL! Even at 80 watts the signal would only get across the parking lot. Very strange.

  60. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 11:29 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    I know that AM stations all have to significantly reduce their power at sunset—it might be that 79 watts will go a lot farther than you think at night.

    Actually not all AM stations have to reduce power at night. Depending on their class of service they can run at full power 24 hours. Then you get into reduced power, patterned signals, etc., to avoid interfering with other stations on the same frequency.

    I really don’t think the 79 watts figure is correct so I’ll do some looking when I get a chance.

  61. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2013 at 11:30 pm #

    Gallups is on from 4-6 CST, so it’s before sunset most of the year.

    CarlOrcas: LOL! Even at 80 watts the signal would only get across the parking lot. Very strange.

  62. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 6, 2013 at 11:34 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Speaking of AM radio, I was working on a Habitat house yesterday, and come paid workmen were installing insulation. They brought a radio tuned to some AM station. It wasn’t right-wing talk radio or anything, but talk about dumbed down! I can see someone being seriously damaged by such daily fare.

    LOL!! The theory is Rush saved AM. I’m not so sure. I don’t listen very often but when I do it is pretty depressing.

    FWIW……I remember when a man I worked for gave away his FM station to the local college because he didn’t see any future there. An AM station I worked for sold their half of the TV channel they shared for the same reason.

  63. avatar
    Slartibartfast September 6, 2013 at 11:40 pm #

    Wikipedia says that US stations are licensed for between 250W to 50kW (with some pre-WWII 500kW stations).

    According to this page WEBY is 25kW daytime and 79W nighttime—a reasonably sized AM station.

    CarlOrcas: Actually not all AM stations have to reduce power at night. Depending on their class of service they can run at full power 24 hours. Then you get into reduced power, patterned signals, etc., to avoid interfering with other stations on the same frequency.

    I really don’t think the 79 watts figure is correct so I’ll do some looking when I get a chance.

  64. avatar
    JPotter September 7, 2013 at 12:10 am #

    One guy’s interesting list of day/night broadcasting power of stations he can receive, and their distance from his receiver. Several well below 250W, one down to 66W!

    http://www.smeter.net/slc/stations/mf-am-broadcast.php

    AM carries well at night, but that does sound crazy weak, doesn’t it?

    FCC article about night AM:
    http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/why-am-radio-stations-must-reduce-power-change-operations-or-cease-broadcasting-night

    Using their query page, I found a station in Okieland that drops down to 32W!
    It’s 200 miles away … nope, not coming in 😉
    http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/am-query-broadcast-station-search

  65. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 7, 2013 at 12:15 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Gallups is on from 4-6 CST, so it’s before sunset most of the year.

    The station is licensed to Milton, east of Pensacola, so I presume they’re in the Pensacola market and there are probably a couple dozen radio stations in the market. Tough business these days.

  66. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 7, 2013 at 12:20 am #

    Slartibartfast: According to this page WEBY is 25kW daytime and 79W nighttime—a reasonably sized AM station.

    Power is relative: First station I worked at was at 550 khz with 5,000 watts daytime and, as I recall, 1,000 at night. It was in Phoenix and I could listen to it all the way to the top of the hill going into Indio during the day. At night I could hear it in L.A.

    There was another station in Phoenix at 1580 khz with 50,000 watts that you couldn’t hear halfway to Tucson.

  67. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 7, 2013 at 12:31 am #

    JPotter: Using their query page,

    Thanks for the link. I checked it for WEBY and got this

    http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?state=&call=WEBY&arn=&city=&freq=530&fre2=1700&type=0&facid=&class=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9

    And, indeed, they are licensed at .079 kilowatts at night. You learn something new every day!!

    I haven’t thought this much about AM radio in a long time!!

  68. avatar
    Slartibartfast September 7, 2013 at 12:35 am #

    WJR in Detroit has an unlimited 50kW license—you can hear it across the state (well, maybe not in the UP) after sundown.

    CarlOrcas: Power is relative: First station I worked at was at 550 khz with 5,000 watts daytime and, as I recall, 1,000 at night. It was in Phoenix and I could listen to it all the way to the top of the hill going into Indio during the day. At night I could hear it in L.A.

    There was another station in Phoenix at 1580 khz with 50,000 watts that you couldn’t hear halfway to Tucson.

  69. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater September 7, 2013 at 12:41 am #

    JPotter:
    C’mon, guys, they’re just asking questions.

    Doesn’t mean they actually want answers LOL

    I thought Gallups was just another online radio blogger … does he have access to actual, honest to goodness over-the-air broadcasting at a brick-and-mortar radio station?

    If, so …. why?

    He pays money for the time slot. Anyone who had the extra money can fill the timeslot

  70. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 7, 2013 at 12:57 am #

    Slartibartfast: WJR in Detroit has an unlimited 50kW license—you can hear it across the state (well, maybe not in the UP) after sundown.

    I’m not sure how many clear channel stations there are now but, in their day, they were the blow torches of AM radio.

    They were popular with long haul truckers but with satellite radio I suspect there aren’t a lot of them listening to AM any more.

  71. avatar
    Lupin September 7, 2013 at 3:04 am #

    misha marinsky: Spiro Agnew, ‘nolo contendere.’

    Indeed!

  72. avatar
    Publius September 7, 2013 at 4:35 pm #

    Curious George: And not a mention in his affidavit about the 1968 race codes deceptively called 1961 race codes. John, are you getting any of this?

    This is known as, “We got caught lying about the 1961 Vital Statistics manual.”

  73. avatar
    scott e September 7, 2013 at 5:38 pm #

    those guys don’t dance to your tune.

    they simply don’t care about your countdown clock or antibirther orange alerts, or obot defcon 5…

    they proceed with quiet confidence, which I admire.

    but I would say your clock is the antithesis of the birther “any day now”… which is fair… and funny… touche’

    it is a great hobby, we all agree on that.

  74. avatar
    Hektor September 7, 2013 at 5:40 pm #

    scott e:

    they proceed with quiet confidence, which I admire.

    And yet President Obama continues to be President… At this rate, the CCCP will be able to prove he’s ineligible by January of 2017.

  75. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 7, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

    Scott is mistaking “hiding under a desk somewhere” for “quiet confidence”.
    Stop trying to play Baghdad Bob, Scott. You’ll find to echo chamber for your tripe here.

  76. avatar
    scott e September 7, 2013 at 6:15 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Scott is mistaking “hiding under a desk somewhere” for “quiet confidence”.
    Stop trying to play Baghdad Bob, Scott. You’ll find to echo chamber for your tripe here.

    ******

    look man, if it was nothing, you guys wouldn’t here… there wouldn’t even be this.

    maybe you guys are right, in the end, I hope you are, but I don’t think it would play out this way. too many layers.

    “You’ll find to echo chamber for your tripe here”. i’m not sure what this means… sorry.

    I don’t know your “Baghdad bob”, does he comment here ? chemical ali ??

    I work alone, you all know that.

  77. avatar
    scott e September 7, 2013 at 6:25 pm #

    Hektor: And yet President Obama continues to be President… At this rate, the CCCP will be able to prove he’s ineligible by January of 2017.

    &&&

    it’s irrelevant to my quest. almost. listen, there are some things I think he does very well. don’t forget i’m a half liberal musician type. you may be stunned/suprised to hear that I think he has handled Syria well. Benghazi, not so much. but in the case of Syria, I think the red line was a risk worth taking.

    right before or after the first election, joe biden said “he will be tested soon” something to that effect. I like that he’s checking with congress. and he is thoughtful about not rushing in. we don’t know what they know. we can all try to be loungechair executives, but that’s a futile exercise. we have to defer to and trust their ability. this is how I feel about the supreme court. there has to be an end of the road for policy and legislation, administration of justice.

    what I don’t understand, is the difference between the saddam’s kids killed by chemical weapons and the assad kids wasted young innocents of Syria. I think bathist Hussein even made a play for Syria at one time.
    for mr. Obama, Syria is damned If he does or doesn’t, and he has risen to the challenge. I respect that.

  78. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 7, 2013 at 6:32 pm #

    scott e: those guys don’t dance to your tune.

    Indeed. Here is some secretly recorded video of the posse dancing to its own tune:

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bad+dancing&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=E46ACD16AFC0567F609DE46ACD16AFC0567F609D

  79. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 7, 2013 at 7:19 pm #

    OK. I admit it. I believe birthers are real. Birthers are not an internet rumor. Birthers are not just a chain email. There are actual living birthers.

    I hope I got the ban filter updated OK.

    scott e: look man, if it was nothing, you guys wouldn’t here… there wouldn’t even be this.

  80. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 7, 2013 at 7:28 pm #

    Do you know anywhere I can document that?

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: He pays money for the time slot. Anyone who had the extra money can fill the timeslot

  81. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 7, 2013 at 7:32 pm #

    I guess “quiet confidence” is a euphemism for “stonewalling.”

    scott e: they proceed with quiet confidence, which I admire.

  82. avatar
    JPotter September 7, 2013 at 7:49 pm #

    Hektor: At this rate, the CCCP will be able to prove he’s ineligible by January of 2017.

    Yep, it’s all set. Jan 20, 2017, according to the SuperConspiracy Master Plan Zeta, Sleeper Agent 151-61-10641 will flee the White House at high noon, in understated terror, escaping the onslaught of SuperConspiracy Front Operation Zullo pre-planned triumph by mere minutes.

    All is proceeding according to plan.

  83. avatar
    Publius September 7, 2013 at 8:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Speaking of AM radio… I can see someone being seriously damaged by such daily fare.

    Here’s the question:

    Have birthers suffered some form of damage to their intelligence because they listen to the likes of Gallups, or do they listen to the likes of Gallups because they were already mentally impaired?

    Chicken, egg.

    Reminds one though of this, the official evaluation of Billy’s debate performance from the judge at the Academic Decathlon:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

  84. avatar
    Publius September 7, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

    Hektor: And yet President Obama continues to be President… At this rate, the CCCP will be able to prove he’s ineligible by January of 2017.

    Uh… no. At this rate, the CCCP MAY be able to prove he’s ineligible by January of 32017.

    But almost certainly not.

  85. avatar
    Publius September 7, 2013 at 8:23 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Scott is mistaking “hiding under a desk somewhere” for “quiet confidence”.

    Actually, Scott is mistaking “willing to continue slinging complete bulls**t” for “quiet confidence.”

    Or, actually… since they are nothing more than confidence men, I suppose “quiet confidence” might not be so far off the mark after all.

  86. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 7, 2013 at 8:25 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Do you know anywhere I can document that?

    I’ve looked and don’t find any rate information for WEBY. I do notice that they have a Donation button on their site and I believe most of the syndicated programs they carry are barter….meaning the programmer gets the revenue for most of the spots in them and the local station gets a couple slots an hour they can sell and they don’t pay any fees to air the program.

    All that makes me think any local programming – like Gallups’ – is probably paid programming or purchased time. I’ve never listened to his program enough to know if there are spots in it for others. Even if there are many stations sell the time period and let the purchaser do with it what they want….including selling spots.

    It’s cross promoted on all of Gallups’ sites….including the church he heads…..Hickory Hammock Baptist Church in Milton.

    There are two interesting notes on the bottom of the church splash page:

    NOTE – There is no email contact here for the PPSIMMONS ministry. You will need to contact the PPSIMMONS staff through the PPSIMMONS YouTube channel personal message center or at ppsimmons@live.com

    NOTE – all of Pastor Gallups’ emails, mail and phone calls are screened. If there is inappropriate communication,Pastor Gallups never gets it or knows about it.

  87. avatar
    Publius September 7, 2013 at 8:28 pm #

    scott e: look man, if it was nothing, you guys wouldn’t here… there wouldn’t even be this.

    Wrong.

    There are two reasons for people who aren’t birthers to follow birtherism.

    One is that exposing con men is a noble pursuit.

    The other is that a train wreck (which is exactly what birtherism is) can be kind of interesting.

  88. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 7, 2013 at 8:41 pm #

    Publius: The other is that a train wreck (which is exactly what birtherism is) can be kind of interesting.

    Yes indeed. Notice the large crowd assembled to watch this one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BwwzqNb3g

    That’s Zullo’s grandfather jumping off the locomotive approaching from the left.

  89. avatar
    Curious George September 7, 2013 at 9:42 pm #

    J Potter,
    “All is proceeding according to plan.”

    Would that be Plan A or Plan B?

  90. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 7, 2013 at 9:43 pm #

    Curious George: Would that be Plan A or Plan B?

    Plan Z.

  91. avatar
    Curious George September 7, 2013 at 10:00 pm #

    Publius…
    “Have birthers suffered some form of damage to their intelligence because they listen to the likes of Gallups, or do they listen to the likes of Gallups because they were already mentally impaired?”

    They have a very peculiar affliction that causes extreme cognitive dissonance for those who observe their behavior and deal in facts. The birthers aversion to facts is impossible to overcome. Sad. No cure has yet been discovered for the birther malady.

  92. avatar
    JPotter September 7, 2013 at 10:19 pm #

    scott e: look man, if it was nothing, you guys wouldn’t here… there wouldn’t even be this.

    This is a modern interpretation of which Carroll character? Caterpillar maybe? No, he was odd but sane. This has to be Chesire Cat or Mad Hatter.

    “I say there is something. Something is there because I say it is. If something wasn’t there, I wouldn’t have said there was, and you wouldn’t want to ask me what the hell I am talking about!” 😉

  93. avatar
    Publius September 7, 2013 at 10:39 pm #

    Scott’s claim is roughly the same as, “Hitler must have been right about the Jews taking over Europe and must have been doing good work, because look at all the people who opposed him.”

    It’s similar to the saying, “If you’re taking flak, you must be right over the target.”

    Both are fallacies. It’s possible that you might be getting shot at because you’ve stumbled across a remote stronghold of some evil enemy. But it’s probably far more likely that the reason you’re getting shot at is because you’re a dumbass who’s making gobble-gobble noises in the woods during turkey season.

  94. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 7, 2013 at 10:43 pm #

    scott e: look man, if it was nothing, you guys wouldn’t here… there wouldn’t even be this.

    And if we weren’t here, you’d be saying, “There must be something here. If it was nothing, someone would be refuting us.”

  95. avatar
    Publius September 7, 2013 at 10:48 pm #

    That’s actually true. Birthers and other conspiracy theorists contrive a world in which all possible circumstances “confirm” whatever it is they want to believe.

    The ultimate in dumbass self deception.

    “If A, then my conspiracy theory is true.”

    “On the other hand, if not-A, then my conspiracy theory is true.”

  96. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater September 7, 2013 at 10:59 pm #

    scott e: look man, if it was nothing, you guys wouldn’t here… there wouldn’t even be this.

    maybe you guys are right, in the end, I hope you are, but I don’t think it would play out this way. too many layers.

    “You’ll find to echo chamber for your tripe here”. i’m not sure what this means… sorry.

    I don’t know your “Baghdad bob”, does he comment here ? chemical ali ??

    I work alone, you all know that.

    Stupidest line of logic ever. This is akin to claiming 9/11 truthers were right because Popular Mechanics took the time to write articles debunking their claims. By the same logic Scott if you didn’t think Obama was eligible you wouldn’t be here trying to tell us he’s not. So obviously using Scott logic you must think he is eligible. Except we are right

  97. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater September 7, 2013 at 11:01 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Do you know anywhere I can document that?

    I think RC did some digging a while back on this.

  98. avatar
    JPotter September 8, 2013 at 12:53 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Do you know anywhere I can document that?

    Short of calling the station, no, but here’s something weird (to me at least) … the WEBY AM website has a PayPal button. To me that implies it’s some variation of non-profit / public access.

    Clicking on the button, you’re told you’re donating to “Spinnaker Communications Corp., DBA WEBY-AM”

    Spinnaker’s website is beyond generic / non-informative … if that is even the right company … who can tell? The Twitter page (which is 100% Tweet-free) describes Spinnaker as “DC PR firm specializing in reputation management through rapid response communications.”

    Spinnaker Communications of Milton, FL is incorporated as a for-profit! A for-profit corp. pimping a PayPal button???

  99. avatar
    Curious George September 8, 2013 at 1:17 am #

    CarlOrcas: Plan Z.

    You’re right! Plan Z as in, Zatt’s it! Zatt’s enough! Zatt’s a fact! Zatt’s a 110% forgery!

  100. avatar
    Lupin September 8, 2013 at 3:00 am #

    Publius: Scott’s claim is roughly the same as, “Hitler must have been right about the Jews taking over Europe and must have been doing good work, because look at all the people who opposed him.”

    While intending to be satirical,you may have adequately paraphrased a belief dear to many in the far right, including birthers.

    The connections between the US far right and the Europeans Neo-Nazis are well-documented.

  101. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 8, 2013 at 8:27 am #

    This is essentially the argument that got scott banned. He formed arguments in such a way that they were both nonsense, and demanding a response. That’s troll, whether he believes it or not.

    Publius: “If A, then my conspiracy theory is true.”

    “On the other hand, if not-A, then my conspiracy theory is true.”

  102. avatar
    Reality Check September 8, 2013 at 9:43 am #

    How about the one Carl Gallups made on his show. “RC called Mike Zullo because he is worried about being named person of interest'”.

    No, RC called Mike Zullo to confirm whether the “person of interest” nonsense was something Gallups alone pulled out of his ass or if they pulled it out together. I got the answer to my question “indirectly confirmed”. 😆

  103. avatar
    Curious George September 8, 2013 at 10:32 am #

    Reality Check:
    How about the one Carl Gallups made on his show. “RC called Mike Zullo because he is worried about being named person of interest’”.

    No, RC called Mike Zullo alone pulled out of his ass or if they pulled it out together. I got the answer to my question “indirectly confirmed”.

    RC, would you please tell us a little more about the conversation with Sergeant Major Z? I thought Gallups sounded overwhelmed with a peculiar joy about the call.

  104. avatar
    Suranis September 8, 2013 at 11:04 am #

    Ahh yes, Scott here slides in a lie thats making the rounds abong the right wing srapheads at the moment. Basicly the left wingers are liberals because they support Obama’s war in Syria, but didnt support Bushes war in Iraq, just becasue they didn’t like Bush I’m sure he things since no-one noticed he is now celebrating that we all admittied that we were hypocryts.

    HOWEVER, to quote a myself from a post to a friend on Facebook – Well, I suppose looking for international agreement to punish a country for actually using chemical weapons by using some air strikes is EXACTLY the same as ignoring international agreement to INVADE a country that MIGHT have chemical weapons that you sold them and therefore MIGHT use them someday MAYBE despite you not actually having any proof of that the country had them at all, nor had any intention of creating or using any.

    Oh yeah and lying that the country is getting NUUUKES and YELLOWCAKE URANIUM from Uganda despite the fact that you know that there’s 600 metric tonnes of the stuff sitting 20 miles from Baghdad and had been there since 1981 after the Israelis bombed that nuclear facility (Much like is being talked about now actually). And of course the seals on that stuff hadn’t been touched in 10 years. And of course outing a CIA spy as punishment for her husband actually pointing out that country was not actually looking for Uranium and Jeprodising an entire swath of US counter terrorism efforts. Which is actual treason, not imaginary treason with imaginary fake birth certificates, scott.

    So yeah, totally the same. Oh yeah and John McCain is apperently against it now because he wants boots on the ground ergo yet another invasion and this specificly prohibits putting boots on the ground at all. So yeah, totally the same as Golf war II: The Revenge of Bush the lesser.

    Oh yeah, when Saddam used Chemical weapons he was “our ally” and Bush the greater said the photos of chemical weapons attacks were fakes. And Donald Rumsfield sold those very chemical weapons.

    Really Scott, your thinking abilities haven’t gotten much better, have they.

    scott e: what I don’t understand, is the difference between the saddam’s kids killed by chemical weapons and the assad kids wasted young innocents of Syria. I think bathist Hussein even made a play for Syria at one time.

  105. avatar
    Publius September 8, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    This is essentially the argument that got scott banned. He formed arguments in such a way that they were both nonsense, and demanding a response. That’s troll, whether he believes it or not.

    It’s also reflective of the basic nature of the birthers.

    They attach themselves to a claim because they wish to believe it and promote it. They like the idea, so they proclaim that it’s “true.”

    The evidence is not a compelling factor for them in their belief. Neither is reason; and neither is logic. These things are only window dressing, decorations. The desired belief is what is important; whether it actually matches reality – well, that can be made up.

    In that sense they are people who have no desire to distinguish fantasy from reality. If the fantasy is sexier than the reality, then the fantasy is “true,” and the reality is “false.”

    Whether he will admit it or not, Scott is not a normal person. He is someone who indulges in fantasy and pretends that it’s reality. And he goes so far as to murder reason and evidence in order to do so.

  106. avatar
    aarrgghh September 8, 2013 at 1:37 pm #

    Publius: “If A, then my conspiracy theory is true. On the other hand, if not-A, then my conspiracy theory is true.”

    to be precise, birfer pseudologic takes the form:

    “If A, then my conspiracy theory is true.

    If not-A, then my conspiracy theory is even truer.”

  107. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 8, 2013 at 2:10 pm #

    aarrgghh: to be precise, birfer pseudologic takes the form:

    “If A, then my conspiracy theory is true.

    If not-A, then my conspiracy theory is even truer.”

    Yup! Ranks right up there with:
    “That’s what they want you to think!”
    “Of course they ruled against us! The judge was threatened/bribed!”
    “-Random Latin Phrase-“

  108. avatar
    Suranis September 8, 2013 at 2:21 pm #

    I find it goes like this

    “Since its A then this conspiracy is true”

    “Its actually B”

    “Since its now proven that it is J then my conspiracy is true”

    “That’s actually H”

    “Since it’s A, so that proves this conspiracy is true.

    Hah, since you are walking away shaking your head/since you are continuing to argue with me/since you are punching my face into a bloody mess/since you have conspired with my family to have me committed to a mental home that proves you cant beat my arguments”

    aarrgghh: to be precise, birfer pseudologic takes the form:

    “If A, then my conspiracy theory is true.

    If not-A, then my conspiracy theory is even truer.”

  109. avatar
    Reality Check September 8, 2013 at 4:50 pm #

    In due time I will reveal more.

    I called with one simple question: Did Carl Gallups speak for him when Gallups said on Mike Volin’s Blog Talk Radio program that blogger NBC and I were “persons of interest” in a criminal investigation?

    Rather than answer that simple question Mr. Zullo behaved in a completely unprofessional manner, tried unsuccessfully to intimidate me into revealing my identity, and apparently let Carl Gallups surreptitiously listen to our conversation. He certainly did not behave as someone would expect a law enforcement professional to behave. That was no surprise because he isn’t.

    I just put up a blog post about it but I can tell you that is not the end of the story. Mike Zullo is trying to intimidate private citizens who happen to think he is wrong and conducting an investigation that is a complete joke. He is hiding behind spokespersons like Mark Gillar and Carl Gallups without actually owning up to those views. His behavior is cowardly and unprofessional. To repeat, that is not surprising since he is in no way a law enforcement professional.

    You can read the email I just sent Zullo on my blog. We Accept Your Challenge Mr. Zullo

    Curious George: RC, would you please tell us a little more about the conversation with Sergeant Major Z? I thought Gallups sounded overwhelmed with a peculiar joy about the call.

  110. avatar
    JPotter September 8, 2013 at 5:21 pm #

    Reality Check: You can read the email I just sent Zullo on my blog. We Accept Your Challenge Mr. Zullo

    Nice effort, RC! Every time I read this, it gets me every time:

    “THE POST & EMAIL: I imagine you know who the major Obot players have been and the kind of trouble they have caused.”

    😀

  111. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 8, 2013 at 6:56 pm #

    JPotter: Nice effort, RC! Every time I read this, it gets me every time:

    “THE POST & EMAIL: I imagine you know who the major Obot players have been and the kind of trouble they have caused.”

    That “trouble” being “completely shooting Zullo’s lies to hell.” I’ll wager!

  112. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 8, 2013 at 8:10 pm #

    Reality Check: Rather than answer that simple question Mr. Zullo behaved in a completely unprofessional manner, tried unsuccessfully to intimidate me into revealing my identity, and apparently let Carl Gallups surreptitiously listen to our conversation. He certainly did not behave as someone would expect a law enforcement professional to behave. That was no surprise because he isn’t.

    As you note he isn’t a law enforcement professional so nothing he does even remotely resembles a professional investigation.

    That said….let me ask you if you think he recorded your conversation? If he did, and depending on where you and he were at the time he could be in trouble regarding consent. Different states require different levels of consent. If Gallups was involved Florida requires all parties to consent.

    If you were in three different states it gets complicated.

    If you suspect the conversation was recorded you may want to consult a lawyer and/or prosecutors.

  113. avatar
    Rickey September 8, 2013 at 10:20 pm #

    Reality Check:

    I just put up a blog post about it but I can tell you that is not the end of the story. Mike Zullo is trying to intimidate private citizens who happen to think he is wrong and conducting an investigation that is a complete joke. He is hiding behind spokespersons like Mark Gillar and Carl Gallups without actually owning up to those views. His behavior is cowardly and unprofessional. To repeat, that is not surprising since he is in no way a law enforcement professional.

    If you have any reason to believe that Zullo has learned your identify, I would recommend that you order your credit reports from the major credit bureaus (you’re entitled to one free copy per year from each credit bureau) and see if there have been any suspicious inquiries recently. I wouldnt put it past Zullo to try to dredge up some information about you to try to discredit you.

    http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/consumer/news/cnwin0203/three.html

  114. avatar
    Kiwiwriter September 9, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

    scott e:
    those guys don’t dance to your tune.

    they simply don’t care about your countdown clock or antibirther orange alerts, or obot defcon 5…

    they proceed with quiet confidence, which I admire.

    but I would say your clock is the antithesis of the birther “any day now”… which is fair… and funny… touche’

    it is a great hobby, we all agree on that.

    No, Scott…this is not a “hobby.” The birthers are a collection of crackpots, con men, cynics, ideologues and liars, united by an idiotic theory that flies in the face of facts and truth, along with political penknives and racial hatreds.

    They are trying to further corrode and damage an already weakened political process and public discourse by making lies into truth, inflamed rhetoric into statecraft, and hatreds into public policy.

    And beneath the sheen of “respectability” are angry and combustible people, spouting racist and violent rhetoric, calling for insurrection, sedition, revolution, and lynchings. This is not a “hobby.” This is rank treason, incitement to rebellion, and incitement to murder.

    All men and women of honor, decency, civility, and patriotism must work to oppose “birthers” and their lies, both to preserve the nation that the Founding Fathers created and generations of Americans have served or fought to defend, as well as to uphold core moral values that define our society.

    “Birthers” may think this is a “hobby,” and probably do, as they know they will never haul President Obama out of the White House and lynch him from a lamppost on Pennsylvania Avenue. But the appalling public behavior, lies, and tone of the “birthers” is a blot on this nation that must be opposed at every turn.

    Liars must be exposed, otherwise the liars and criminals take over the country. That is what happened in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

    This is not a “hobby” or a “game.”

  115. avatar
    Publius September 9, 2013 at 1:03 pm #

    This is basically how I feel about it as well.

    Birtherism is nothing less than evil.

    I’m not saying the rank and file birther who doesn’t know much and has been sucked in by the rhetoric is personally evil, but they, including Scott, are supporting an evil movement that at its core is run by evil people.

  116. avatar
    JD Reed September 9, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

    Kiwiwriter: No, Scott…this is not a “hobby.” The birthers are a collection of crackpots, con men, cynics, ideologues and liars, united by an idiotic theory that flies in the face of facts and truth, along with political penknives and racial hatreds.They are trying to further corrode and damage an already weakened political process and public discourse by making lies into truth, inflamed rhetoric into statecraft, and hatreds into public policy.And beneath the sheen of “respectability” are angry and combustible people, spouting racist and violent rhetoric, calling for insurrection, sedition, revolution, and lynchings. This is not a “hobby.” This is rank treason, incitement to rebellion, and incitement to murder.All men and women of honor, decency, civility, and patriotism must work to oppose “birthers” and their lies, both to preserve the nation that the Founding Fathers created and generations of Americans have served or fought to defend, as well as to uphold core moral values that define our society.“Birthers” may think this is a “hobby,” and probably do, as they know they will never haul President Obama out of the White House and lynch him from a lamppost on Pennsylvania Avenue. But the appalling public behavior, lies, and tone of the “birthers” is a blot on this nation that must be opposed at every turn.Liars must be exposed, otherwise the liars and criminals take over the country. That is what happened in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.This is not a “hobby” or a “game.”

    Hear, hear!

  117. avatar
    Curious George September 9, 2013 at 4:01 pm #

    JPotter: Nice effort, RC! Every time I read this, it gets me every time:

    “THE POST & EMAIL: I imagine you know who the major Obot players have been and the kind of trouble they have caused.”

    From The Post & Email, September 8, 2013:

    “Mike Zullo is a retired homicide detective from New Jersey who led the Maricopa County, AZ Cold Case Posse in a criminal investigation of the long-form birth certificate image posted on the White House website more than two years ago.”

    Carl Gallups has repeatedly said that Group Leader Z has “decades” of professional law enforcement experience. When interviewed Zullo has admitted to 5 years a law enforcement experience. How does a rookie cop become a homicide detective and retire all in 5 years? I think the CCCP is stuck in the spin cycle.

  118. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 9, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

    Curious George: When interviewed Zullo has admitted to 5 years a law enforcement experience. How does a rookie cop become a homicide detective and retire all in 5 years?

    He doesn’t….that’s the answer. It’s all nonsense. Check the crime statistics for Demarest from 2001 to 2011: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Demarest-New-Jersey.html

    No homicides. One rape, one robbery. There’s a reason Demarest has no detectives and more school crossing guards than sworn officers.

  119. avatar
    Publius September 9, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

    ROTFL. A grand total of 1 homicide in 11 years. 1 rape. And 1 robbery.

    And I think someone said there were a grand total of 9 or 10 cops for the town.

    A police career lasting a grand total of 5 years that encompassed “homicide detective” in a town that gets 1 homicide in 11 years.

    I did some further research and actually managed to turn up an official photo of Rear Admiral Zullo back in his Homicide Detective days.

    He looked a lot younger back then. Young and handsome!

  120. avatar
    G September 9, 2013 at 7:08 pm #

    Very apt descriptions of their behavior and thinking…

    Publius: It’s also reflective of the basic nature of the birthers.

    They attach themselves to a claim because they wish to believe it and promote it. They like the idea, so they proclaim that it’s “true.”

    The evidence is not a compelling factor for them in their belief. Neither is reason; and neither is logic. These things are only window dressing, decorations. The desired belief is what is important; whether it actually matches reality – well, that can be made up.

    In that sense they are people who have no desire to distinguish fantasy from reality. If the fantasy is sexier than the reality, then the fantasy is “true,” and the reality is “false.”

    Whether he will admit it or not, Scott is not a normal person. He is someone who indulges in fantasy and pretends that it’s reality. And he goes so far as to murder reason and evidence in order to do so.

  121. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm #

    Publius: A police career lasting a grand total of 5 years that encompassed “homicide detective” in a town that gets 1 homicide in 11 years.

    It’s just silly…no doubt about it. More probable is that if there was a murder when Zullo was on the department it was investigated by county or state police. He may have been on the scene…..directing traffic, but that was it.

  122. avatar
    Black Lion September 9, 2013 at 8:58 pm #

    CarlOrcas: He doesn’t….that’s the answer. It’s all nonsense. Check the crime statistics for Demarest from 2001 to 2011: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Demarest-New-Jersey.htmlNo homicides. One rape, one robbery. There’s a reason Demarest has no detectives and more school crossing guards than sworn officers.

    Demarest is a joke in Bergen County….Most crime is handled by the Bergen County Prosecutor’s Office and their detectives.

  123. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 9, 2013 at 9:14 pm #

    CarlOrcas: He may have been on the scene…..directing traffic, but that was it.

    I found another interesting bit of information about Demarest…..the hot bed of crime in in northeast New Jersey from whence Mr. Zullo came:

    http://www.cityrating.com/crime-statistics/new-jersey/demarest.html#.Ui5vzj_9xOQ

    In each chart Demarest is the green bar. Note that by every measure crime there is just a fraction of what it is in New Jersey and the rest of the country.

    Notice that on the violent crime chart four of the six years show no green bar which means no violent crime in Demarest.those years.

    Now…..it’s always possible that in the years before the data here and in the other chart things were really bad and Mr. Zullo was responsible for fighting crime to a standstill and bringing to bucolic Demarest the peace and tranquility we see now.

    Sure. That’s it……right, john….scott?

  124. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 9, 2013 at 9:27 pm #

    Black Lion: Demarest is a joke in Bergen County….Most crime is handled by the Bergen County Prosecutor’s Office and their detectives.

    I’m sure that’s absolutely correct. I’m used to how things work in western states but I know in older eastern states there are various classes of cities and their departments have limited powers and prosecutors also handle more of the investigations.

    Frankly I doubt a small department like Demarest handles any felonies. Not too long ago when I was looking for information on the city there was a story about the department being dissolved and Bergen County taking over policing duties in the city.

  125. avatar
    justlw September 9, 2013 at 10:41 pm #

    I wanted to learn more about the teeming metropolis of Demarest (population: 4881) and its Extremely Thin Blue Line (CarlOrcas wasn’t kidding when he said they had more crossing guards than patrolmen…)

    However, if you go from the city page to the “Demarest Police Department Website,” you find that currently, it’s… blank.

    So, off to the Wayback Machine, which is entertaining. I’m assuming this is all after Duke Z left, but still… .

    • First capture, April 2009: A budding website designer weaves his or her magic

    • Phase 2, July 2009: Crime doesn’t pay–so have you considered going back to school?

    • Phase 3, February 2011 – present: Oh, you have to keep paying to keep a domain? Like, every year?

  126. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 10, 2013 at 1:16 am #

    justlw: I wanted to learn more about the teeming metropolis of Demarest (population: 4881) and its Extremely Thin Blue Line (CarlOrcas wasn’t kidding when he said they had more crossing guards than patrolmen…)

    The borough’s demographics are also interesting: Median household income in the 2010 census was just under $150,000….about three times the national figure.In other words it is a well to do, wealthy in fact, little enclave with all the benefits that involves…..like very little crime.

  127. avatar
    misha marinsky September 10, 2013 at 9:11 am #

    Black Lion: Demarest is a joke in Bergen County

    I can see Camden from my window, at night – it glows. And that’s no joke.