The Cold Case Posse hasn’t achieved anything in the “real world”—there are no indictments, there is no Congressional investigation, and there is no interest from the Media. It has been a total bust. However, stepping back to take the broad view, they never had a chance.
One notes immediately that the Cold Case Posse never had any resources. While the CCP has a loose association with the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office, the resources of the Office were not made available to the CCP. Public funding was not provided and the CCP had to rely totally on volunteers and private donations. You never see any “crime lab” staff in the CCP reports, nor any expertise borrowed from the MCSO. The most they got was one Deputy who got a free vacation in Hawaii to babysit Mile Zullo.
The second major handicap was lack of expertise. While the actual membership in the Cold Case Posse has never been disclosed, its leader Mike Zullo was a low-level member of a small-town police force, and that a long time ago. The CCP has relied on volunteers who know a little about computers (promoted to forensic document examiners). Only after a year and a half of embarrassing reports did they hire someone with real certification, and that report was not released.
The most serious problem, though, was that what the CCP was trying to prove was false. We already have certifications from the State of Hawaii, and the Selective Service System that the documents they are trying to prove fake are really legitimate. One simply cannot find real proof of a fake premise.
From the beginning, the Cold Case Posse was doomed.
But so long as there are bigoted suckers, who want Obama out of the White House at any cost, Mike Zullo won’t have to go back to eating cat food any time soon.
“Only after a year and a half of embarrassing reports did they hire someone with real certification, and that report was not released.”
His only certification/expertise is in pseudoscience. From his own bio he has no expertise in forensic document examination, digital or otherwise, which qualifies him in the proper discipline to opine in court on the so-called “forgery”.
Must be quite the comedown for Corsi, since the heady days of Swiftboating. “But my lies were just as awful and blatant and reprehensible! What am I missing?” Every bit the one-hit wonder, soon it’s the county fair circuit for him, lying to ever smaller and smaller crowds.
PUPPET SHOW
AND JEROME CORSI
I didn’t read the ASDE certification that way.
What a legacy Zullo is leaving, Zullo the Clown, head of the Clown Posse, he must love that!
charade
SHəˈrād/
noun
noun: charade; plural noun: charades
1. an absurd pretense intended to create a pleasant or respectable appearance.
You are absolutely right…..the whole charade was doomed from the very beginning and Arpaio knew it but for those of us who have followed his 21 years as sheriff of Maricopa County it isn’t even remotely surprising.
Reed Hayes is more than qualified. He has made a living at it. He has experience in forensic handwriting and computer-generated document attestations. His professional credentials are impeccable in his field. He is trained to see things the average person can’t detect when it comes to forensic handwriting attestations, whether it is on paper or computer generated. To ridicule the man’s record for his work for someone you do not agree with is down right unethical and morally wrong.
Great movie!
hey Steve, what is unethical and morally wrong is Reed claiming forgery on a legally verified document.
Hi, are you the same guy who comments at ORYR as Joe Mannix? Just asking.
The Reed Hayes report is problematic for two reasons. The biggest reason is that it is being kept secret. It is, in my opinion, irrational for anyone to rely on a report they haven’t seen. It is, however, reasonable to discount the report for reasons given below.
Because the report has not been published, one cannot know upon what basis Hayes reached his conclusions. He is credentialed in certain disciplines, but we do not know if he used credentialed disciplines to reach his conclusions, or whether he used “graphology” that he also dabbles in and, is generally recognized as a pseudoscience.
We know that while handwriting analysis can be done scientifically, it is not 100% conclusive. Hayes himself in an article was quoted as saying it was 80-90% accurate, and in this case he is further handicapped by having only copies to work from. There is simply no way any handwriting expert acting according to the canons of his profession would ever say that a document is a 100% forgery. The discipline simply cannot support such a conclusion.
That leaves us with two possibilities: either Zullo is fundamentally misrepresenting the Hayes report, or the report is not written using the expertise Hayes has, Hayes is off the reservation, and he is a crank insofar as this report. Because we already know that the birth certificate is authentic, having been verified on numerous occasions by the Hawaii Department of Health, what Zullo says that Hayes says is simply wrong. Given that it is wrong, the conclusion cannot be competent.
Since Zullo’s mission in life is to prove Obama ineligible, I can see no reason to suppress the Hayes report unless it is fatally flawed.
Your remark “He has experience in forensic handwriting and computer-generated document attestations” is bullshit. There is noting in Hayes’ bio or credentials to support any experience whatever in “computer-generated document attestations.” The organization that credentials Hayes doesn’t even offer such a certification.
What “computer-generated document” did Reed Hayes examine? At best he was provided with a copy of a copy of a document.
Why won’t Zullo allow anyone to see Hayes’ report? Inquiring minds want to know.
Really I’ve heard this claim before about “computer-generated document” experience but gleamed nothing from his CV attesting to that. Do you have any proof of that? How many actual forensic document examiner’s CVs have you looked at to gauge what would be considered “impeccable” in his field. His field is graphology. That’s what his competence is in, a field even he described as a pseudoscience. But hey I’m sure Miss Cleo’s credentials were impeccable in her field of “bullshitology”.
Mr. McGarrett,
To add to Doc C’s point about Mr.* Zullo having overstated his claims, exactly what is there for a handwriting expert to attest to in the case of the LFBC? The birther claim is that the LFBC was electronically assembled from other sources, so the signatures of Dr. Dunham, Dr. Sinclair, and Ms. Lee are all presumably electronic images of legitimate signatures (either from President Obama’s valid BC or elsewhere) and the rest of the information is typed.
Also, what is the basis for Mr. Hayes’s expertise in “computer-generated document attestation”? Exactly what does that mean, anyway? Is there an organization who certifies people as computer-generated document examiners? Is Mr. Hayes a member? I think it’s just something that you (or your pal Mr.* Zullo) made up because you thought that it sounded impressive and relevant.
* This is probably the only title that Zullo merits, and we don’t even have proof of that.
Rickey: Why won’t Zullo allow anyone to see Hayes’ report? Inquiring minds want to know.
won’t the “report” be in the NEW book? i want to give it for a secret santa present ($10 limit) & purchase it from the wing nuts daily IMPEACHMENT store
http://superstore.wnd.com/sales/Impeachment-Store
Since no one here has so much as suggested doing that, your comment bears false witness against us. Isn’t that downright unethical and morally wrong?
On the other hand, examining Mr. Hayes’s acknowledged expertise and determining what sort of claims he can legitimately make is the kind of thing that must be done with ANY expert before their testimony can be accepted. Why do you have a problem with this?
Didn’t Zullo go from investigating the president, to invesitgating the president’s forger, to investigating … a host of a BTR show?
Will his next task be to investigate who stole the cookie from the cookie jar? (I’ll save Zullo the time: It was Obama!)
You’re WRONG!!! It was O.J.!
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/o-j-simpson-gets-busted-prison-trying-sneak-154732738–nfl.html
Have you seen the report he prepared for Zullo? Has he told you what it contains?
If Mr. Hayes is ever proffered as an expert witness in an actual legal proceeding (something I highly doubt will ever happen) the questions raised here about both his areas of expertise and his analytical methods will be asked directly of Mr. Hayes on cross-examination, under oath, by President Obama’s attorneys.
Since Mr. Hayes has only seen internet scanned images of the president’s birth certificate and not the original paper version, I doubt that his analysis has any probative value.
I wonder how much Zullo spent sealing the report. I heard that sealing records can be expensive.
I think it funny. You people rip someone apart, for trying to do something.
At the same time, you’re happy with someone in the white house, that you know nothing about, and he spent a lot of money to seal all his records. LOL..that in it’s self
should tell you something.
That’s my vote: I still think it’s unlikely that a professional, accustomed to testifying and writing affidavits, would say he had examined “the Long Form Birth Certificate” when had actually examined a PDF image.
And, if we’re going to use legally niceties, we shouldn’t say we “know” he’s wrong: we “conclude, based on the extremely high odds against the conspiracy theory being true, that Zullo’s claims about his findings are false”. 😉
There’s a rumor that it didn’t cost him anything: he just used an old stamp that he got for free from the MCSO because it was missing the “20” from the year.
yep. he used to also post at the city-data forum as “steve mcgarrett” ( and a multitude of other names ).
we miss you over there steve but your “joe mannix” posts have been entertaining.
….and what does “steve mcgarrett” have to say about the good doctor on the city-data forum?
“Also Dr. Conspiracy is a wacko nutcase extremist Obama supporter who is into UFO’s, ESP and radical religion. He has no credibility.”
His core purpose has never changed, to grift the gullible. It is only the method that has changed.
Zullo could put an end to our doubts by just releasing the records of his investigation.
Any day now.
For those who care… Steve McGarrett is also the late, great “Cold Case Posse Supporter” recently zotted at Freep.
Ouch. Zotted twice at Freep in just about a month? Some people are just slow learners.
Obama has spent the same amount of money as I have to seal his records.
Namely, $0.00
Go ahead and try to gain access to my records. I post under my real name, which is unique in the United States (and as near as I can tell, the world). Nothing buys you an awful lot these days…
We knew more about President Obama when he was elected than we know about most presidential candidates. Furthermore, a majority of the voters felt they knew enough to vote for him. Twice. On the other hand, Zullo is making claims that Mr. Hayes’s report, regardless of what is in it, cannot possibly support (a “science” which is only 80-90% percent accurate cannot possibly provide 100% proof of fraud, for starters) and you yourself are telling bald faced lies—President Obama hasn’t spent any money to “seal” any of his records. His records, like yours and mine, are sealed by laws that he had nothing to do with and were in place long before he ran for the presidency.
Why do you think that dishonest people shouldn’t be called out for bearing false witness?
Isn’t Doc a Lutheran? Can you get more protestant that that?
I guess Steve doesn’t have any problem with bearing false witness against people…
oof. do you understand the concepts of public and private records?
Well, I have looked critically at all sorts of crank views, but I don’t believe we are being visited by space aliens, nor that ESP works.
Trying to do what?
What don’t you know about President Obama? Fire away with any questions you have.
And, exactly what records did he have sealed?
I think I just figured out the whole Congress debt ceiling strategy!
If Congress says the country isn’t going to pay anymore bills, then all those bribes that are keeping Obama’s records sealed, all the 9/11 victims witness protection programs, all the secret hidey holes where the disappeared are being hidden will be defunded and all those thousands of people will START TALKING!
Then we can have some of those VIP’s holding Congressional hearings for the next 5 election cycles!
OH! Those sneaky Rethuglians! Trying to undo 100 years of work by the star chambers, and ensure Demothugs are sent back to the unAmerican tundra where they belong!.
Not to worry, the Vatican Bank slash funds ($400 trapanillion or more) can finance the bribes and cover-ups for another 250 billion years. After that, though, we’re really in trouble. (Though of course the heat death of the universe will be the ultimate cover-up. Or do you remember any of Obama’s impeachable offenses from before the Big Bang? See?)
You don’t pay taxes?
I think its funny that birthers believe tired memes that have been disproved by multiple fact checking sites.
I think it’s funny that all the birthers have left is to tout a report they’ve never seen and stand behind a make-believe cop who has lied to them multiple times. What’s even more interesting is how much anti-birthers miss debunking them and are so ready to jump on any little statement. Must be BDWS…Birther Debunking Withdrawal Syndrome. 😀
It’s time to start a new blog site: “Zullo Release Your Records” (ZRYR). I want to see his Hayes Report. I want to see his employment records from Demarest. I want to see his kindergarten transcripts, And, I want to see his last colonoscopy exam. Why is he hiding these from us? What’s he afraid of?
Conspiracy believers love anything “secret”, especially if that “secret knowledge” is on their site. They love the idea that for once, “they” (the conspirators) are the ones who are “shaking in their boots because they have no idea what we have in store for them”. It gives them a feeling of power (a fake feeling of real power or a real feeling of fake power? ;)) and that provides the rush they need to recover from their helplessness hangover.
Of course. To put it not nicely: in a way, the 20th posting about “how the Cold Case Posse is wrong” is no better than the 20th posting about “how Obama laughs at us with his fake BC”. Both sides are trying to make do with the little that is still going on.
“I think it funny. You people rip someone apart, for trying to do something.
At the same time, you’re happy with someone in the white house, that you know nothing about, and he spent a lot of money to seal all his records. LOL..that in it’s self should tell you something.”
Few things…
1) We know more about this President and his history than any other President in living memory.
2) This President has provided, or we have seen, more documentation about who he is than any other sitting President has done in history. Name just one other President who has released his BC records. Name one other President who you have seen his selective service card, know his social security number, and have had confirmation of his documentation by both state and federal officials. Name… just… one.
3) No records of Obama’s have been “sealed.” This is a birther myth. His records are protected by the same privacy laws that you, I, and every American in this country are protected by.
You are a sniveling, whiny troll who never answers a direct question.
Where is your evidence that Obama spent as much as a dime sealing his records?
When are you going to ask your pal Zullo to tell us what law was broken when Obama released the PDF of his birth certificate?
Scott has been told that dozens of times, but he can’t hear us.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdHAcw88ZNdXhTimEqfkNehEKQc45kNizwJWtsiD2ULZ73klde
So Steve, I heard Reed Hayes took one look at your handwriting and knew all about the bedwetting and what you keep under your pillow. Is that what convinced you of his expertise?
The ones that prove he’s an illegal alien Muslim Communist, of course.
You’ve never seen anything that proves that, have you?
I rest my case.
I find it funny Scott that you can never answer direct questions when asked. You run every single time. You know more about Obama than you knew about say the previous president but you didn’t seem to complain when Bush showed you no birth certificate. He spent no money his records aren’t sealed. Yes it tells me that you have a mental disability since you can’t take in information and retain it.
“Also Dr. Conspiracy is a wacko nutcase extremist Obama supporter who is into UFO’s, ESP and radical religion. He has no credibility.”
Dr. C deals in facts. This is a foreign concept to Grand Master Z. Dr. C’s research that exposed the shoddy work of Zullo and his associates as revealed at the July 17, 2012 press conference was a masterpiece. Using 1968 race codes instead of 1961 codes was Zullo’s downfall.
Damn skippy. And debunking Cruz-birtherism just ain’t the same, because all it mostly is is gleeful repetitions of “It’s payback time, boys!” Hardly any tinge of mainline crazy to it a tall.
So are the threads here going to devolve into some kind of BDWS support group?
*shuffles in*
Hi. I’m Slarty and its been over a day since I debunked a birther…
Fortunately for my BDWS, Hermie showed up at his Amazon discussion page today. Smackdown delivered.
Nice.
Hi Slarty…it takes 2 US citizen parents to be considered a “natural born” Citizen.
That’s okay, I found a longwinded birther going by the unlikely pseudonym of “Mario Apuzzo” over here.
W. Kevin VicklundSeptember 27, 2013 at 5:54 pm (Quote)#
“Fortunately for my BDWS, Hermie showed up at his Amazon discussion page today. Smackdown delivered.”
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Right ACE !!!
Smackdown delivered by Hermitian to Vicklund again !
The readers on my forum are getting a real dose of the truth.
Like for instance — you have never posted a single LFCOLB image to back up any of your false claims that OCR created the redactions and strikeouts that are observed when the Tepper LFCOLB is opened in Adobe Illustrator CS6 and CC.
So either put up or shut up ACE ! All of my images have been posted on Scribd for months. Where are yours? You don’t have any ? It figures.
I still find it amusing that birthers believe records can be sealed by paying a lawyer and somehow Obama has to keep paying them more and more as time goes on.
I’ve seen the amount continually go up, but never a consideration for how records could be sealed in the first place or why he has to pay more and more.
The concept of continually paying someone to keep records sealed is ludicrous.
Do they think the seals expire? That they pop up like a magic toaster?
Maybe a pit is dug somewhere and they’re moved around regularly?
when every event, ancestor, relative, friend, girlfriend, teacher, pastor, coworker, teammate, hospital, home, school, camp, club, job, church, trip, photo, video, tape, purchase, gift … every record of every little datapoint intersecting the entire life of a manchurian candidate must be hunted down like the first born of egypt’s hebrews and sunk with chains to the bottom of the nile, such a massive and desperate undertaking of course cannot happen overnight, even with the full resources of the federal gov’t at one’s disposal (bribery and blackmail nonwithstanding), especially with the nation’s bravest and tireless defenders of the constitution this country has ever seen dogging one’s heels.
Point taken.
My remarks did not ridicule the man. I stated that from his own bio (what part of that do you not get?) he does not have the expertise required to opine in court in the proper discipline.
That said, one way to know he is not qualified is that (purportedly) he has opined on the authenticity of a digital representation of an original document which he’s never seen. That in itself is complete BS. The pdf of Obama’s BC is completely and totally irrelevant to any court proceeding.
Birthers are also regaling Hayes’ opinion based on hearsay from Zullo. A source which is less than trustworthy, based on his track record in this so-called investigation.
And I can neither agree nor disagree with anything Hayes has purportedly done as an investigation because I have (and neither does anyone else besides Zullo, supposedly) no idea what he did, how he did it nor what his opinions are. I do know, based on his own bio, that he’s not qualified in the proper discipline to opine on the alleged forgery in any meaningful way. If he has expertise that he’s not listed, I’d love to know about it.
There’s also the problem of a handwriting analyst speaking to the issues that Zullo raises about the file’s legitimacy. None of those issues has the slightest thing to do with handwriting.
Even more notable is the fact that Hayes appears to have completely ignored the fact that the owner of the document, the State of Hawaii, has verified its authenticity and accuracy on several occasions. Shouldn’t that have been the first place to look? Frankly, only the State of Hawaii would have the legal standing to assert and confirm that the document was faked.
His main expertise is in Graphology. He thinks that by seeing a handwriting sample, you can see certain aspects of a person’s personality. This is a pseudo-science, and you can read about it here: http://www.skepdic.com/graphol.html
He may be a handwriting expert. However, there is nothing in his expertise that relates anything to electronic documents. There is nothing to indicate that he’s had any training in anything other than questioned documents, which has nothing to do with the things that Zullo claims about the document. He, with other handwriting samples, may be able to determine whether or not the signatures of David Sinclair, Stanley Ann Obama, or Verna Lee are authentic. However, he’d have to have a contemporary handwriting sample (as people’s handwriting changes over time). And that would be difficult, as he couldn’t determine pressure points on this as he could on the original document.
So, yes, we’re saying that his questioned document examiner expertise, does not translate to computer forensics. It would be like us saying that an expert in Literature does not have expertise in Physics. It’s two completely different fields.
The burning question I have is if Reed Hayes examined Mike Zullo’s handwriting, would he still buy a used car from him?
He might buy the new book just to see if his report morphed into something other than what he originally wrote.
Isn’t that cute? Hermie thinks he’s people.
Hermie,
What you and the rest of the birther techno-cargo cult don’t seem to understand is that, even if you were able to utterly destroy the arguments of Kevin and nbc and RealityCheck (which, let’s be clear, you are completely incapable of doing), your arguments are rendered completely moot by something that your pseudo-technical examination of third or fourth generation images cannot possibly do: impeach the veracity of the Hawai’ian Department of Health. Absent that, every court in the country MUST accept their word on who was or was not born in Hawai’i as final. If they are willing to stand behind a forgery (and they must be if you are correct), then why would they not generate the document themselves? Since they are the authority on Hawai’ian birth records, anything they produce and certify would, necessarily, be considered valid by the courts (or any other relevant authority). Since they are willing to say that they produced a document with information matching that on the White House pdf, it would seem that there could be no possible motive for creating an image that is an electronic forgery which the issuing agency says is accurate.
Do you think that a prosecutor would go to trial with no motive for the crime (not to mention all of the “means” evidence favoring the defendant)? Face it, the birther case boils down to: “President Obama is guilty of something because I hate him.”
Orly’s latest gem proves that way of thinking, she basically said Obama can be impeached because his approval rating is down.
Hermitian: Right ACE !!!
Smackdown delivered by Hermitian to Vicklund again !
The readers on my forum are getting a real dose of the truth.
Like for instance — you have never posted a single LFCOLB image to back up any of your false claims that OCR created the redactions and strikeouts that are observed when the Tepper LFCOLB is opened in Adobe Illustrator CS6 and CC.
So either put up or shut up ACE ! All of my images have been posted on Scribd for months. Where are yours? You don’t have any ? It figures.
Your forum? You think Amazon is yours? The readers on Amazon are laughing at you as they always have. Why is it you disappeared from Amazon after the election only now to return?
Why don’t you tell people about your new theory Hermy? That Zullo is on speed dial of every sheriff’s cell phone in the nation and that there is a BOLO out on Obama and this is why he hasn’t been campaigning as much.
Don’t make be YOLO your BOLO! LOLO!
But this doesn’t explain why the DHS is buying bullets when Obama is sweating them more each minute.
Maybe Zullo holds a sekrit meeting with KKKlayman on how to establish a “Citizen Congress” to impeach and convict Obama.
Also new on ZRYR (Zullo Release Your Records): How the CCP demands Obots show how to produce the anomalies on the WH PDF without even pressing a single button on the Xexxerexx WorkCent(er|re) 74/75.
I also read in breaking news from 1813 (relayed via Twitter and pony express) that the Alabama SC is supposed to hand down the frogmarching verdict *next* Friday, not last Friday (silly us, “any day now” is *always* next week, no matter what week it is). This time, not just Roy Moore, but also Roger Moore and Arnold Moorenegger will preside to ensure the black guy doesn’t get any more presidenting to do.
And if that fails, birthers will fauxlibuster the internets until all those lolcats have been defunded and Kenyacare shuts down the Keystone pipeline, though I may have misunderstood my non-existing anonymous sources high up in the atmosphere slightly here, the voices in my head were screaming too loud.
The Magic M: Don’t make be YOLO your BOLO! LOLO!
TROLOLO?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTSA_sWGM44
Oh bother the flowers of spring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Otla5157c I like that one better
I enjoyed rereading this oldie but goodie article. It’s more true today than ever.