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Straw men and other lies from Mark Gillar

In a new article at Birther Report, “Doc Dump: CCP Researcher Unloads; Multiple Counts of Document Fraud,” Mark Gillar proves that the Cold Case Posse lied. The article refers to some National Center for Health Statistics documents from 1960, and has an image of an old birth certificate.

While the article makes it sound as if something were happening:

Gillar said he is in contact with the Cold Case Posse almost daily and never has there been so much enthusiasm and confidence as there is right now regarding the Obama document fraud investigation.

What he presents is the same old stuff labeled “new” a long time ago. Indeed I could have just pointed to my June 2 article, “Zullo tries to pull off a fast one on sheriffs,” as a full response to this latest rerun.

The old birth certificate shows a person whose Father’s race was written “Colored” then crossed out and written “Negro.” Then Gillar says:

For years, the Sycophant Obots demanded “Birthers” show any other Hawaiian birth certificate listing negro as the race of a parent.

He’s lying. I challenge Gillar to provide so much as a single example of such a thing being said. The entry of “Negro” is perfectly reasonable and no one would have had any reason to question it, or to demand someone produce an example.

Gillar then makes an argument based on a 1960 Vital Statistics manual. While the article doesn’t show the image of the race codes in that manual, its linked document does. Here’s what they don’t show:

image

That proves that the race code manual that the Cold Case Posse showed in its own press conference was a fake. Here’s the fake one:

The article then tries to mislead by saying:

The 1961 edition of the Vital Statistics Coding Manual, often quoted by Obots, was published 6 days after Obama’s birth certificate was accepted by the local registrar and therefore is not applicable to this discussion. See boxes 20 and 22 of Obama’s purported LFBC below.

It is true that the 1961 edition of the manual has been cited by me and others, but the race codes that we focused on are the same in both manuals. There is a significant but irrelevant difference in the instructions between the manuals and I’ll note that later.

Gillar then says:

Obots have for some time quoted a current Hawaiian official as saying that parents are allowed to self-report their race and that it is reasonable that Barack Obama Sr. would have represented himself that way (African).

While a current Hawaiian Official, Kurt Tsue said this, I have always relied on the National Center for Health Statistics documents to prove that race is self-reported. Gillar demands:

Perhaps now Obots might be willing to show us a 1961 LFBC other than Barack Obama’s on which a black parent is listed by the HDOH as anything other than negro?

There weren’t many black people in Hawaii in 1961, so sufficient samples to check just aren’t available. But we do know that race coding was open ended from entries such as this:

Gillar then tries verbal confusion (and this kind of thing works very well on birthers) to try to make the phrase “consider the parent’s race as Negro” be understood as “change the parent’s race to Negro” and this trick works very well alongside the altered birth certificate shown with the article. The difference in wording between the 1960 and 1961 manuals is significant. Here are both with the 1961 additions highlighted:

1960:

If the racial entry is “C,” “Col.,” “Black,” “Brown,” or “A.A,” “Afro-American,” consider the parent’s race as Negro.

1961

If the racial entry is “C,” “Col.,” “Black,” “Brown,” or “A.A,” “Afro-American,” and the birthplace is the United States, consider the parent’s race as Negro. If birthplace of parent is not in the United States, code as other nonwhite.

What Gillar expects a birther to fail to notice is that the race entered for Barack Obama’s father (“African”) is none of those listed. “African” and “Afro-American” are very different things. The rule doesn’t apply! And even if the rule did apply, it’s about how race is considered in deriving the race of the child, nothing about changing a legal record signed by the parent. And further, these coding rules were for the NCHS staff in Washington who keyed the data, not for hospitals filling out forms. The race of the parent wasn’t part of the NCHS data set in 1961 in the first place; it was only used to derive the race of the child (which was in the data set).

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89 Responses to Straw men and other lies from Mark Gillar

  1. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 9:58 am #

    Under Gillar’s standard he would say the [redacted. Doc.] certificate is a fake since it doesn’t meet part one’s “requirement” 1. If the racial entry is a mixture of any other races consider the parent Part-Hawaiian

  2. avatar
    john December 7, 2013 at 9:58 am #

    It should be noted that Barack Obama Sr. listed his race as “Kenya” (Kenyan) in his University of Hawaii Documents. So at BEST, Obama would have been declared “Kenyan” and at Worst, “NEGRO”. But “African”, No Way! http://www.scribd.com/doc/54015762/Barack-Hussein

    It should also be noted that EVERY Hawaii birth certificate that has been seen to date lists the race by country or region of origin, never by continent of origin. eg. Japanese for Japan not Asian, German for Germany not European.

    I have also looked a lot of other birth certificates from other states and have never seen any that would have a race of “African” today or from any other time.

    If the race “African” is really true, the race designation would be highly, highly highly highly highly highly highly highly unusual for the time.

  3. avatar
    john December 7, 2013 at 10:01 am #

    “Gillar then says:

    Obots have for some time quoted a current Hawaiian official as saying that parents are allowed to self-report their race and that it is reasonable that Barack Obama Sr. would have represented himself that way (African).

    I have never heard any current Hawaiian official say this, and it is curious that if it’s true why Gillar doesn’t name the official.”

    LOL!!! Doc, any trying to lead us into believing you don’t as much about the birther movement as we think you do????

    Please Doc, don’t try to play dumb. Every last birther and obots knows about this.

  4. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 10:05 am #

    Oops doc can you edit out the name before letting my last comment goes live. Gillar said a lot of other goofy things last night like his belief in the pakistan travel ban. Or that it was law that it had to say negro.

  5. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2013 at 10:06 am #

    If this is so obviously true, provide an example.

    john: LOL!!! Doc, any trying to lead us into believing you don’t as much about the birther movement as we think you do????

    Please Doc, don’t try to play dumb. Every last birther and obots knows about this.

  6. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 10:12 am #

    john:
    It should be noted that Barack Obama Sr. listed his race as “Kenya” (Kenyan) in his University of Hawaii Documents. So at BEST, Obama would have been declared “Kenyan” and at Worst, “NEGRO”. But “African”, No Way! http://www.scribd.com/doc/54015762/Barack-Hussein

    It should also be noted that EVERY Hawaii birth certificate that has been seen to date lists the race by country or region of origin, never by continent of origin. eg. Japanese for Japan not Asian, German for Germany not European.

    I have also looked a lot of other birth certificates from other states and have never seen any that would have a race of “African” today or from any other time.

    If the race “African” is really true, the race designation would be highly, highly highly highly highly highly highly highly unusual for the time.

    This is just an assumption by you. How many other people from the African continent visited Hawaii? Your small sample of certificates isn’t enough to make the claims that Gillar and others have made.

  7. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 10:13 am #

    john: LOL!!! Doc, any trying to lead us into believing you don’t as much about the birther movement as we think you do????

    Please Doc, don’t try to play dumb. Every last birther and obots knows about this.

    Provide an example where you think Doc wasn’t being truthful

  8. avatar
    Curious George December 7, 2013 at 10:30 am #

    I love it when birthers show that what they present is not truthful. The smoking gun…..the July 17, 2012 CCCP press conference. Great job Mark Gillar. Open mouth, insert foot.

    Doc,
    “That proves that the race code manual that the Cold Case Posse showed in its own press conference was a fake. Here’s the fake one:”

  9. avatar
    JPotter December 7, 2013 at 10:31 am #

    Classic Pin-My-Claim-On-My-Opposition move by MEG! Let’s see …

    “For years, the Sycophant [birthers] demanded “[obots]” show any other Hawaiian birth certificate listing [African] as the race of a parent.”

    Yep, FIFH.

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Provide an example where you think Doc wasn’t being truthful

    John … umm … ‘reports’, you decide. I decided he’s being Desperately Objectionable again ;)

  10. avatar
    gorefan December 7, 2013 at 11:47 am #

    “I have never heard any current Hawaiian official say this, and it is curious that if it’s true why Gillar doesn’t name the official.”

    He is referring to a FactCheck article.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

    “Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn’t tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama’s father’s race listed as “African”? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father’s race and mother’s race are supplied by the parents, and that “we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be.” We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as “African.” It’s certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.”

  11. avatar
    gorefan December 7, 2013 at 11:56 am #

    john: It should be noted that Barack Obama Sr. listed his race as “Kenya” (Kenyan) in his University of Hawaii Documents. So at BEST, Obama would have been declared “Kenyan” and at Worst, “NEGRO”. But “African”, No Way! http://www.scribd.com/doc/54015762/Barack-Hussein…

    What page of the Immigration file does he list his race as “Kenyan”? There are several pages where he lists his nationality as “Kenya”. But I haven’t seen one where he lists his race as Kenyan.

    Please point to the specific page number.

    Have you seen this Texas 1985 BC?

    http://blog.angryasianman.com/2010/08/race-yellow.html

  12. avatar
    john December 7, 2013 at 11:58 am #

    Yes, you are correct Gorefan. It’s unbelievable Doc C didn’t know that. At this point, its really hard to believe anything the State of Hawaii says regarding Obama and his birth certificate. They are are involved in this cover up just as much Obama and his administration is. That’s why I support and independent entity to look into the Obama birth certificate scandal as mike McFarlin has suggested. At this point, you simply cannot trust Hawaii. Their credibility had all been reduced to zero regrading this issue.

  13. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2013 at 12:17 pm #

    Sorry, I don’t know everything, but I’m glad to learn this detail.

    What the official said is exactly what the NCHS instructions say, so it is certainly true.

    john: It’s unbelievable Doc C didn’t know that. At this point, its really hard to believe anything the State of Hawaii says regarding Obama and his birth certificate.

  14. avatar
    john December 7, 2013 at 12:20 pm #

    It’s one the final pages in the immigration file. Here a link to that capture. http://www.wnd.com/2011/04/293113/

    Notice his race says “Kenya”. I would take that to mean “Kenyan”. So why wasn’t Obama Sr. reporting his race as “African”? In fact, all of his documents either says Kenya or British of his nationality and the best race indication we have is “Kenya”. No “African” designation is ever mentioned except on the birth certificate which is inconsistent.

    Also notice the birth date – June 18, 1934. This would make him 27 but he lists 25 on the birth certificate, again another inconsistency. Obama Sr. Started lying about his age about a year later when he trying to get into Havard. At the time of Obama’s birth, all official documents list Obama Sr. birth date as June 18, 1934 which would make him 27.

  15. avatar
    JPotter December 7, 2013 at 12:27 pm #

    john: That’s why I support and independent entity

    Ohhh, hoping for an official version of “we only invent the controversy, it’s up to you to disprove it.” Note to ‘john’: the CCCP is neither independent nor objective.

  16. avatar
    gorefan December 7, 2013 at 12:41 pm #

    john: It’s one the final pages in the immigration file. Here a link to that capture. http://www.wnd.com/2011/04/293113/

    There is a form that says Nationality – British, one that says Birthplace – Kenya and one (w/finger prints) that says Nationality – Kenya.

    Where is the one that says Race – Kenya?

    BTW, his headstone on his grave says he was born in 1936. Who do you believe his mother or a government form?

  17. avatar
    gorefan December 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: What the official said is exactly what the NCHS instructions say, so it is certainly true.

    On the Hawaiian BC that Gillar points to for the struck out race of father, the mother’s race is listed as Hawaiian but the coding looks like a “2″ which according to the 1960 manual means she was a “negro”

    BTW, in the BR article, Gillar redacted the place of birth of the father. The coward was afraid to show that the father was born in Virginia. Here is a better copy that John gave us sometime ago:

    http://obamabc.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/pdf-text-fails-grid-test.jpg

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2013 at 12:59 pm #

    Reminds me of my college days. I wrote to a publisher in the Soviet Union complaining about bias in a dictionary they had published. I said that a definition in the book was biased because it defined a generally used term in a Marxist way. I said they should be more objective.

    They replied that only Marxism is objective.

    JPotter: the CCCP is neither independent nor objective.

  19. avatar
    john December 7, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

    gorefan: What page of the Immigration file does he list his race as “Kenyan”?There are several pages where he lists his nationality as “Kenya”.But I haven’t seen one where he lists his race as Kenyan.

    Please point to the specific page number.

    Have you seen this Texas 1985 BC?

    http://blog.angryasianman.com/2010/08/race-yellow.html

    It’s there. one the final document related to University of Hawaii. Obama Sr’s race is listed as “Kenya”. (They meant Kenyan, perhaps a typo, the left the N, in any event it doesn’t say “African”) Regardless of the Obots produce regarding the race designations, this inconsistency cannot escape scrutinity.

  20. avatar
    john December 7, 2013 at 1:04 pm #

    john:
    It’s one the final pages in the immigration file.Here a link to that capture.http://www.wnd.com/2011/04/293113/

    Notice his race says “Kenya”.I would take that to mean “Kenyan”.So why wasn’t Obama Sr. reporting his race as “African”?In fact, all of his documents either says Kenya or British of his nationality and the best race indication we have is “Kenya”.No “African” designation is ever mentioned except on the birth certificate which is inconsistent.

    Also notice the birth date – June 18, 1934.This would make him 27 but he lists 25 on the birth certificate, again another inconsistency.Obama Sr. Started lying about his age about a year later when he trying to get into Havard.At the time of Obama’s birth, all official documents list Obama Sr. birth date as June 18, 1934 which would make him 27.

    The Age Discreptency is one of Doug Voygt’s 20 points of forgery.

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

    Proving Vogt’s incompetence.

    john: The Age Discreptency is one of Doug Voygt’s 20 points of forgery.

  22. avatar
    Joey December 7, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

    Gillar used a weasel word that no one would pick up: “current.” Since 2008 when factcheck.org interviewed him, Mr. Tsue is no longer employed by the Hawaii Department of Health. The last time I checked, he was working for the Honolulu Water District. But he is still alive and he could be subpoenaed to testify about what he said concerning racial designations on birth certificates.
    However since no state in the Union nor the federal government requires a birth certificate to prove Article II, Section 1 eligibility (federal law 42CFR 435.407 makes a U.S. Passport the primary evidence of citizenship and identity) the issue is moot to all but the few remaining birthers.
    Even the Republican-controlled House of Representatives has shown absolutely no interest in this (phony) issue. The House has never held a single second of hearings on President Obama’s eligibility.

  23. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 7, 2013 at 1:16 pm #

    Look, John is back, spouting his usual brand of disproved misinformation.
    It’s a Chrimbus miracle.

  24. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 1:26 pm #

    gorefan: There is a form that says Nationality – British, one that says Birthplace – Kenya and one (w/finger prints) that says Nationality – Kenya.

    Where is the one that says Race – Kenya?

    BTW, his headstone on his grave says he was born in 1936.Who do you believe his mother or a government form?

    Page 52 where the fingerprints are it says Race, Kenya. But do we know if this was filled out by Obama Sr or rather the person taking the biometrics?

  25. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 1:31 pm #

    gorefan: On the Hawaiian BC that Gillar points to for the struck out race of father, the mother’s race is listed as Hawaiian but the coding looks like a “2″ which according to the 1960 manual means she was a “negro”

    BTW, in the BR article, Gillar redacted the place of birth of the father.The coward was afraid to show that the father was born in Virginia.Here is a better copy that John gave us sometime ago:

    http://obamabc.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/pdf-text-fails-grid-test.jpg

    I notice he also redacted the certificate number perhaps because the number doesn’t fit their conclusions about the numbering system

  26. avatar
    Joey December 7, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

    As Doc. C. Pointed out back in 2009, the instructions for the 1962 Kenyan census race question listed the following suggested choices: “European, Somali, Arab or AFRICAN. Asians must write Pakistani or Indian.”
    http://www.hist.umn.edu/~rmccaa/IPUMSI/CensusForms/Africa/ke1962ef_kenya_enumeration_forms.en.pdf

    It should also be noted that “birther princess” Miki Booth listed her race as “Japanese Caucasian” and her husband is listed as “Hawaiian Caucasian” on Miki’s son Allan’s Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth.
    http://www.kerchner.com/images/protectourliberty/alanbooth1981hawaiianlongformbc.jpg

    The above provides further corroboration of Kurt Tsue’s statement that “we accept what the parents self-identify themselves to be.”
    In a state that is as multi-racial as Hawaii, that makes sense to me.

  27. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 7, 2013 at 1:36 pm #

    john: That’s why I support and independent entity to look into the Obama birth certificate scandal as mike McFarlin has suggested.

    An “independent entity” formed and appointed by whom? Responsible to whom?

  28. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    CarlOrcas: An “independent entity” formed and appointed by whom? Responsible to whom?

    As was pointed out to Mr McFarlin what point would an independent team have? They aren’t the issuing authority they have no say over birth records and wouldn’t be able to validate anything they look at.

  29. avatar
    Northland10 December 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm #

    john: That’s why I support and independent entity to look into the Obama birth certificate scandal

    Have you considered changing your name to Mark?

  30. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

    gorefan: On the Hawaiian BC that Gillar points to for the struck out race of father, the mother’s race is listed as Hawaiian but the coding looks like a “2″ which according to the 1960 manual means she was a “negro”

    BTW, in the BR article, Gillar redacted the place of birth of the father.The coward was afraid to show that the father was born in Virginia.Here is a better copy that John gave us sometime ago:

    http://obamabc.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/pdf-text-fails-grid-test.jpg

    Looks like they already purged your comments.

  31. avatar
    Jim December 7, 2013 at 2:20 pm #

    john: “That’s why I support and independent entity to look into the Obama birth certificate scandal”

    That’s IT!!! That entity must have a cross-section of the entire country, representing all the citizenry. And, they must be UNANIMOUS in deciding that the President is eligible. No county sheriffs or fake posses, a true representative of our society, chosen by our society, just to make these kinds of decisions!

    The Constitution calls it the Legislative branch, or Congress…and they were unanimous that he is eligible..

  32. avatar
    gorefan December 7, 2013 at 2:31 pm #

    john: It’s there. one the final document related to University of Hawaii. Obama Sr’s race is listed as “Kenya”.

    No, John it is not there. You keeping saying it is but you cannot point to the actual form. There are three forms in the WND article none of them list “Race”. and there is no listing for “Race” in any of the forms in the scribd documents that you linked.

  33. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 2:33 pm #

    gorefan: No, John it is not there.You keeping saying it is but you cannot point to the actual form.There are three forms in the WND article none of them list “Race”.and there is no listing for “Race” in any of the forms in the scribd documents that you linked.

    on the original link it’s on page 52 where the biometrics are. On the wnd link it’s the one with all the fingerprints on it. Upper right says Race: Kenya. This has nothing to do with Hawaii’s department of health or birth certicates. Biometric information may not use the same coding as the vital records. So again it’s a misdirect from John

  34. avatar
    gorefan December 7, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: on the original link it’s on page 52 where the biometrics are.

    Thanks – I retract my previous comment and apologize to John for doubting him.

  35. avatar
    gorefan December 7, 2013 at 2:45 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Looks like they already purged your comments.

    I wonder why they would do that?

    And not also delete the response to the comments.

  36. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 2:47 pm #

    lol Doc birthers can’t seem to take a joke recent comment on that page talking about you I guess: “by the way, why the same person brags about being in Moscow Russia apparently recent, as if a badge of honor, is beyond me. Well, not really beyond me, its certainly understandable.”

  37. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 2:55 pm #

    gorefan: Thanks – I retract my previous comment and apologize to John for doubting him.

    It still has no relevance. What they do on biometric forms has nothing to do with what is done on Vital records such as birth certificates.

  38. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 2:57 pm #

    gorefan: I wonder why they would do that?

    And not also delete the response to the comments.

    No idea because they’re incompetent? I see many birthers still believe the Alan Keyes exchange happened. First they claim it was on TV during the debate, then they claim it was backstage, some now claim they heard it on the radio and that a birther texasdarlin posted video of the exchange.

  39. avatar
    john December 7, 2013 at 3:04 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: I notice he also redacted the certificate number perhaps because the number doesn’t fit their conclusions about the numbering system

    Also notice the Doc’s signature. He signs his name and adds “M.D.” designation even the doctor box is checked. On Obama’s birth certificate, Dr. Sinclair doesn’t add the “M.D.”. Even though 2 different doctors, Dr. Sinclair did add his “M.D.” designation on Miki Booth’s BC which is an inconsistency.

    So far Obots can’t explain the 3 major inconsistencies:

    1. Age – Should have been 27 but listed as 25. Obama Sr. didn’t lie about his age until he tried to get into Harvard.

    2. Race – Should have been “Kenya(Kenyan)” but is listed as “African”. Obama Sr. Should told the folks at the University of Hawaii he was “African” but didn’t

    3. Dr. Sinclair – “M.D.” should be there but isn’t but it’s on Miki Booth’s certificate.

  40. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 7, 2013 at 3:04 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: As was pointed out to Mr McFarlin what point would an independent team have?They aren’t the issuing authority they have no say over birth records and wouldn’t be able to validate anything they look at.

    You know that. I know that. Most rational people know that.

    john does not appear to understand it.

  41. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2013 at 3:11 pm #

    DIdn’t Vogt say that Booth’s certificate was a fake?

    john: 3. Dr. Sinclair – “M.D.” should be there but isn’t but it’s on Miki Booth’s certificate.

  42. avatar
    OllieOxenFree December 7, 2013 at 3:14 pm #

    Isn’t it an assumption that BO sr. was even present at the time when the documentation was being filled out for the birth certificate? He was a student after all and may have been attending classes at the time or left to study, or any number of things that would have resulted in his absence.

    Wouldn’t it be entirely possible that all the information regarding the father was supplied by BO’s mother and that information may have been provided only to the best of her knowledge, including the age?

    Certainly seems reasonable, considering the course of study as an anthropologist that she was taking, that she would have identified the father as “From Africa,” or, “he is African,” when asked about the race of the father and his birthplace.

    I mean, we only have her signature on the certificate so we can’t say with any confidence that he was even there.

  43. avatar
    Slartibartfast December 7, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

    John,

    You say that a continent cannot be used as a racial identifier. If this is true, then I’m sure you will have no problem explaining why the contemporary Kenyan census had “African” as a choice for race as well as demonstrating that there aren’t any birth certificates which list a parent’s race as “Asian”.

    Can you do that?

  44. avatar
    Bonsall Obot December 7, 2013 at 3:42 pm #

    Lest it be forgot: even if the BC said BO Sr. was a Martian (an inconsistency,) if the DOH of Hawaii says the BC is valid, then the BC is valid. And they have. And it is. The matter is settled.

  45. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 7, 2013 at 3:42 pm #

    john: So far Obots can’t explain the 3 major inconsistencies:

    Something is seriously amiss here, john.

    I have seen numerous explanations of these “inconsistencies” right here on this blog.

    It seems clear that someone is messing with your blog profile and/or computer in order to keep you from seeing them.

  46. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 7, 2013 at 3:53 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Something is seriously amiss here, john.

    I have seen numerous explanations of these “inconsistencies” right here on this blog.

    It seems clear that someone is messing with your blog profile and/or computer in order to keep you from seeing them.

    John suffers from a combination of adult onset mental retardation, and Optical-aversion syndrome.

  47. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich December 7, 2013 at 4:00 pm #

    Doc, at the urging of Cdr. Kerchner I wrote a letter to my congressman asking for a full public congressional investigation of every birther claim. I was able to list 60 separate lies the birthers tell about the President and those close to him. I’d like the birthers to know just how afraid we are of a congressional investigation.

    :mrgreen:

  48. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 7, 2013 at 4:08 pm #

    john: Also notice the Doc’s signature.He signs his name and adds “M.D.” designation even the doctor box is checked.On Obama’s birth certificate, Dr. Sinclair doesn’t add the “M.D.”.Even though 2 different doctors, Dr. Sinclair did add his “M.D.” designation on Miki Booth’s BC which is an inconsistency.

    So far Obots can’t explain the 3 major inconsistencies:

    1.Age – Should have been 27 but listed as 25.Obama Sr. didn’t lie about his age until he tried to get into Harvard.

    2.Race – Should have been “Kenya(Kenyan)” but is listed as “African”.Obama Sr. Should told the folks at the University of Hawaii he was “African” but didn’t

    3.Dr. Sinclair – “M.D.” should be there but isn’t but it’s on Miki Booth’s certificate.

    You’ve made this claim before about the Dr Signature it has no meaning. The doctor on the Nordyke twins certificate doesn’t sign MD neither does the Edith Coats doctor that’s what the checkbox is for.

    Your claims about the biometrics sheet has nothing to do with self-reporting. Nor does it have to do with vital records.

  49. avatar
    RanTalbott December 7, 2013 at 4:22 pm #

    It’s interesting that he’s identified as a “CCP Researcher”. Does that mean he can be included in the fraud indictment?

  50. avatar
    Loren December 7, 2013 at 4:25 pm #

    john:
    It should also be noted that EVERY Hawaii birth certificate that has been seen to date lists the race by country or region of origin, never by continent of origin. eg. Japanese for Japan not Asian, German for Germany not European.

    Funny thing about Africa that distinguishes if from other continents: from the 1800s up to the mid-20th century, it was largely colonized by Europe. As of 1959, the total list of independent countries in Africa was: Liberia, Ethiopia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco, Ghana, and Guinea. And of *those*, only THREE (Liberia, Ethiopia, and Egypt) were independent countries prior to 1950.

    By contrast, the list of countries that didn’t gain independence until after Obama was born includes Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, Algeria, Uganda, Kenya, Malawi, Zambia, Gambia, Botswana, Lesotho, Namibia, Equitorial Guinea, Mozambique, Angola, Djibouti, Zimbabwe, and several others.

    So when your average American circa 1961 thought of Europe, they thought of the culturally-distinct European nations that had been there for centuries. They know where Germany and Japan are (they’d have to be idiots not to, post-WWII). Whereas when they thought of Africa, they likely thought of a dark continent colonized by European powers. Not a continent of unique cultures and distinct nations.

    Heck, it’s not like Americans CURRENTLY have a fantastic understanding of the distinctions between African countries. Most of us could probably do a pretty good job of labeling a blank European map, especially west Europe; but if given a blank AFRICAN map, how many Americans could get past Egypt, South Africa, and Congo?

  51. avatar
    Arthur December 7, 2013 at 4:28 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: No idea because they’re incompetent? I see many birthers still believe the Alan Keyes exchange happened.

    Yup. I’ve posted links to Keyes clearly stating that what the birthers say happened didn’t happen. I also posted links to video of the debate (and to transcripts), demonstrating that what Obama actually said has been twisted into something he didn’t say. Doesn’t do any good.

    As Paul Simon observed,

    “All lies and jests
    Still a man hears what he wants to hear
    And disregards the rest”

  52. avatar
    sactosintolerant December 7, 2013 at 5:26 pm #

    John,

    Please direct me to the Federal or Hawaiian law, rule, or regulation that would have prohibited “African” from appearin on the BC or go sit in the corner over there with the truthers.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2013 at 5:36 pm #

    JimBot will be over tonight to give you a stern talking to.

    Comrade Fogovich: Doc, at the urging of Cdr. Kerchner I wrote a letter to my congressman asking for a full public congressional investigation of every birther claim. I was able to list 60 separate lies the birthers tell about the President and those close to him. I’d like the birthers to know just how afraid we are of a congressional investigation.

  54. avatar
    gorefan December 7, 2013 at 7:25 pm #

    Comrade Fogovich:
    Doc, at the urging of Cdr. Kerchner I wrote a letter to my congressman asking for a full public congressional investigation of every birther claim. I was able to list 60 separate lies the birthers tell about the President and those close to him. I’d like the birthers to know just how afraid we are of a congressional investigation.

    Have RC scan it to e-mail on a Xerox 7535 and save it in Preview on a Mac.

  55. avatar
    Rickey December 7, 2013 at 7:37 pm #

    john: Also notice the Doc’s signature.He signs his name and adds “M.D.” designation even the doctor box is checked.On Obama’s birth certificate, Dr. Sinclair doesn’t add the “M.D.”.Even though 2 different doctors, Dr. Sinclair did add his “M.D.” designation on Miki Booth’s BC which is an inconsistency.

    My father was a doctor. Sometimes he added “M.D.” to his signature and sometimes he didn’t. Just like sometimes I sign my full name and sometimes I just sign my first initial and last name. I do that because I am a human being and not an autopen.

    Unfortunately, your brain is on autopilot.

  56. avatar
    Rickey December 7, 2013 at 7:43 pm #

    gorefan: On the Hawaiian BC that Gillar points to for the struck out race of father, the mother’s race is listed as Hawaiian but the coding looks like a “2″ which according to the 1960 manual means she was a “negro”

    Not only that, what is the coding for the father? It looks more like a 9 than a 2.

  57. avatar
    Curious George December 7, 2013 at 9:26 pm #

    John:

    “That’s why I support and independent entity to look into the Obama birth certificate scandal as mike McFarlin has suggested. At this point, you simply cannot trust Hawaii. Their credibility had all been reduced to zero regrading this issue.”

    John, didn’t you mean the CCCP cannot be trusted and their credibility has been reduced to ZERO? Take your blinders off before you get too deep into their deceptive quagmire.

  58. avatar
    Curious George December 7, 2013 at 9:37 pm #

    Rickey: Not only that, what is the coding for the father? It looks more like a 9 than a 2.

    It looks like Gillar’s torn BC shows the Race of Father as “7.” Using Gillar’s 1960 Vital Statistics Coding would mean the father was an “Eskimo.” But turning up the brightness on the screen seems to indicate a 9.

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2013 at 10:01 pm #

    If it is a “7″ then it is crossed, and another obvious “7″ in block 12-a is not crossed. We generally don’t see inconsistency in the symbols for the codes. I can see a “9″ though, particularly when I play with sharp operators, contrast and stuff. However, that “9″ would be very different from the one on Obama’s form. I’m wondering if it could be an “8″.

    Curious George: It looks like Gillar’s torn BC shows the Race of Father as “7.” Using Gillar’s 1960 Vital Statistics Coding would mean the father was an “Eskimo.” But turning up the brightness on the screen seems to indicate a 9.

  60. avatar
    Keith December 7, 2013 at 10:49 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Reminds me of my college days. I wrote to a publisher in the Soviet Union complaining about bias in a dictionary they had published. I said that a definition in the book was biased because it defined a generally used term in a Marxist way. I said they should be more objective.

    They replied that only Marxism is objective.

    When I was in grade school, an article in ‘My Weekly Reader’ described the results of a track meet between USA and the CCCP. I think they were using the Pravda sourced article for effect. It went something like

    “[The Soviet Runner] finished second, while [the American Runner] finished second last”.

    There were only two runners in the race.

  61. avatar
    Keith December 7, 2013 at 10:53 pm #

    CarlOrcas: An “independent entity” formed and appointed by whom? Responsible to whom?

    Its deja vu all over again!

  62. avatar
    RanTalbott December 7, 2013 at 11:13 pm #

    CarlOrcas: An “independent entity” formed and appointed by whom?

    I think we should ask the Organians: their status as figments of the imagination make them ideally suited for dealing with birthers.

  63. avatar
    RanTalbott December 8, 2013 at 1:16 am #

    john: It should also be noted that EVERY Hawaii birth certificate that has been seen to date lists the race by country or region of origin, never by continent of origin. eg. Japanese for Japan not Asian

    What should be noted is that millions of people have seen Hawaiian birth certificates, and it’s literally impossible for you to know what all of them saw. And I think it’s highly unlikely that you’ve seen any belonging to people whose parents were born in, say, Cambodia, India, Indonesia, or Pakistan.

    : If the race “African” is really true, the race designation would be highly, highly highly highly highly highly highly highly unusual for the time.

    Well, no, it wouldn’t: as has been repeatedly pointed out by many people, it was used officially by tens (hundreds??) of millions of people in Eurpean-colonized Africa. And, informally, by people around the world, to distinguish the indigenous folks from the colonizers.

  64. avatar
    Curious George December 8, 2013 at 7:21 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: If it is a “7″ then it is crossed, and another obvious “7″ in block 12-a is not crossed. We generally don’t see inconsistency in the symbols for the codes. I can see a “9″ though, particularly when I play with sharp operators, contrast and stuff. However, that “9″ would be very different from the one on Obama’s form. I’m wondering if it could be an “8″.

    Yes I saw the inconsistency in block 12 a. That’s why I speculated that the 7 in the Race of Father block could be possibly another number. John would call the two different handwritten 7 codes an inconsistency as well and he would also call it an indicator of a forgery according to his previous statements. Knowing the history of the CCCP lies and their disinformation campaign, there is no reason to believe the Monckton document is legitimate, absent a Verification of Birth from the state of Hawaii.

  65. avatar
    Reality Check December 8, 2013 at 9:44 am #

    Who doesn’t trust Hawaii? They are producing thousands of vital documents every year and no one except a handful of nut jobs has questioned any of them. Give me one example of a document that has been questioned not related to the Birther BS?

    john: That’s why I support and independent entity to look into the Obama birth certificate scandal as mike McFarlin has suggested. At this point, you simply cannot trust Hawaii. Their credibility had all been reduced to zero regrading this issue.

  66. avatar
    Reality Check December 8, 2013 at 9:52 am #

    I have always maintained that it is more likely that Ann Dunham provided the information on Barack Obama, Sr. I can imagine a nurse stopping by Ann’s room to gather the info to put on the birth certificate.

    I don’t remember giving any information to the hospital when my children were born. Mrs. RC provided that. I probably signed some papers but I don’t recall.

  67. avatar
    HistorianDude December 8, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

    The birther theory that certificates would have been changed to conform to federal coding standards is disproved by every Hawaiian BC we have seen that includes the race label “Caucasian” yet fails to show it having been corrected to “White.”

  68. avatar
    gorefan December 8, 2013 at 12:10 pm #

    HistorianDude: the race label “Caucasian” yet fails to show it having been corrected to “White.”

    Anyone ever see a birth certificate with a parent’s race listed as “Other non white”.

  69. avatar
    Joey December 8, 2013 at 1:20 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Who doesn’t trust Hawaii? They are producing thousands of vital documents every year and no one except a handful of nut jobs has questioned any of them. Give me one example of a document that has been questioned not related to the Birther BS?

    Specifically, why haven’t the birthers been able to produce a single birth certificate of a person who was not born in Hawaii but has a birth certificate that says that they were born in that state?

  70. avatar
    Rickey December 8, 2013 at 6:00 pm #

    Joey: Specifically, why haven’t the birthers been able to produce a single birth certificate of a person who was not born in Hawaii but has a birth certificate that says that they were born in that state?

    Yeah, we’ve been asking that question for years and they have yet to come up one, unless you count Sun Yat-Sen.

  71. avatar
    RanTalbott December 8, 2013 at 7:04 pm #

    Maybe those were the records Obama paid 14 bazillion dollars to seal.

  72. avatar
    Suranis December 8, 2013 at 9:22 pm #

    john
    So far Obots can’t explain the 3 major inconsistencies:

    1.Age – Should have been 27 but listed as 25.Obama Sr. didn’t lie about his age until he tried to get into Harvard.

    I am shocked, shocked, that a man would lie about his age to get a woman into bed. And when talking to the said girls parents who are generally very happy when an older man gets their daughter pregnant. And who marries a woman despite being already married.

    Barack Obama senior was a bit of a jackass. News at 11.

    2.Race – Should have been “Kenya(Kenyan)” but is listed as “African”.Obama Sr. Should told the folks at the University of Hawaii he was “African” but didn’t

    I am shocked that Ann Dunham used the general term for Africans when answering questions about her husband when she was in labour or in post natal shock.

    3.Dr. Sinclair – “M.D.” should be there but isn’t but it’s on Miki Booth’s certificate.

    I am shocked that Dr. Sinclair was not 100% totally consistent with his signature when signing 1000s of forms across a period of years.

  73. avatar
    Thinker December 8, 2013 at 9:53 pm #

    John: Regarding BHO Sr’s age…Vogt claimed that the age is incorrect on Jr’s BC. He made the observation that, based on his immigration file, Sr said he was born in 1934 before and during his time in Hawaii, but then changed it to 1936 during his time at Harvard. Since there is nothing definitive on the actual year he was born, Vogt cooked up a BS story saying that Sr. would have lied to Harvard because he had to be 26 or under for some “foreign student status”, implying that it was an immigration requirement. But it wasn’t. It was just something he found on a website about a particular ‘study abroad’ program that had nothing at all to do with BHO Sr. If a reliable source existed stating what year BHO Sr was born, why would Vogt have been dishonest about it? He wouldn’t have. The fact is, we don’t know what year Sr was born. In the biography “The Other Barack,” the author Sally Jacobs says this:

    “Barack Obama’s date of birth is unclear. His earliest school records bear no birth date. His University of Hawaii transcript records his birthdate as 18 June 1934. His marriage certificate and résumés indicate he was born in 1936. U.S. immigration records show his year of birth as both 1934 and 1936. Family members say they believe he was born in 1936, so I have used that date.”

    We don’t know for sure what year he was born. And even if we did and his age was incorrect, it would only mean that his age was incorrect. It wouldn’t mean the birth certificate is fake.

  74. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 8, 2013 at 10:48 pm #

    Thinker:
    We don’t know for sure what year he was born. And even if we did and his age was incorrect, it would only mean that his age was incorrect. It wouldn’t mean the birth certificate is fake.

    Exactly. If “mistake” meant forgery, then I am of the opinion that John’s entire existence has been forged.

  75. avatar
    justlw December 9, 2013 at 2:34 am #

    john: If the race “African” is really true, the race designation would be highly, highly highly highly highly highly highly highly unusual for the time.

    As I’ve mentioned here before: when my great grandfather and grandfather came to America in 1907, their arrival was recorded on form 500-B, from the US Department of Labor and Commerce. One of the columns on this form was to list the immigrant’s “Race or People”, and is footnoted, “List of races will be found on back of this sheet.”

    Turning to the back of the sheet, we find that the first of the “races” to choose from is:

    African (black)

    To repeat, that was in 1907. So I guess it wouldn’t be highly, highly highly highly highly highly highly highly unusual for 1961 after all.

  76. avatar
    JPotter December 9, 2013 at 9:28 am #

    I think I finally get what les birfers have been trying to tell me all this time. For calendar year 1961, retroactively known as Year of the Birf 0, there were no Africans.

    I have seen the light. His name is Robert Paulson, and 2+2=5.

    Birf-birf, birf-birf ….. birfity, birfity, birf-birf …

  77. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 9, 2013 at 10:11 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Exactly. If “mistake” meant forgery, then I am of the opinion that ____’s entire existence has been forged.

    well you know according to birthers if you redact certain information it ceases to exist thus… he no longer exists.

  78. avatar
    JPotter December 9, 2013 at 10:54 am #

    RanTalbott:
    Maybe those were the records Obama paid 14 bazillion dollars to seal.

    Are Obama’s Records futures up or down this month? Perhaps they are tied to the sunspot cycle…

  79. avatar
    Matt December 10, 2013 at 12:41 am #

    justlw: One of the columns on this form was to list the immigrant’s “Race or People”, and is footnoted, “List of races will be found on back of this sheet.”

    As also seen in this example:

    http://media.nara.gov/media/images/51/1/carp50a.jpg

  80. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 10, 2013 at 12:02 pm #

    Matt: As also seen in this example:http://media.nara.gov/media/images/51/1/carp50a.jpg

    Look what’s missing on this no “Negro” race. Are there other pages to this document? This is the race information for the survivors from titanic? Picked up by the Carpathia correct?

  81. avatar
    justlw December 10, 2013 at 12:23 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Look what’s missing on this no “Negro” race.

    The conspiracy goes all the way to the bottom!

    Are there other pages to this document?This is the race information for the survivors from titanic?Picked up by the Carpathia correct?

    Looks like the index page for the manifest is:

    http://www.archives.gov/research/immigration/titanic-survivors-to-ny.html

  82. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 10, 2013 at 12:40 pm #

    justlw: The conspiracy goes all the way to the bottom!Looks like the index page for the manifest is:http://www.archives.gov/research/immigration/titanic-survivors-to-ny.html

    This page is interesting: http://media.nara.gov/media/images/51/1/carp13a.jpg
    African (Black)
    “African (Black) refers to the African Negro, whether coming from Cuba or other islands of the west indies, North or South America, Europe or Africa. Any alien whose appearance indicates a mixture of Negro blood should be classified under this heading”

    This is basically saying any black person not born in the US would have been considered African no matter which other country they came from.

  83. avatar
    Keith December 10, 2013 at 8:16 pm #

    RanTalbott: I think we should ask the Organians: their status as figments of the imagination make them ideally suited for dealing with birthers.

    Organians, perhaps. However Tralfamadorians would be the perfect choice.

    They would have no higher calling – their entire existence would be dedicated to dealing with birthers in exactly the way birthers deserve to be dealt with.

  84. avatar
    Keith December 10, 2013 at 8:19 pm #

    Reality Check:
    I have always maintained that it is more likely that Ann Dunham provided the information on Barack Obama, Sr. I can imagine a nurse stopping by Ann’s room to gather the info to put on the birth certificate.

    I don’t remember giving any information to the hospital when my children were born. Mrs. RC provided that. I probably signed some papers but I don’t recall.

    It was probably you. Typically, the father is so traumatized that he can’t remember anything that goes on for about 16 or 17 years. 8-)

  85. avatar
    Reality Check December 10, 2013 at 11:04 pm #

    Well you have a point. Mrs. RC still brings up things that happened or were said in the delivery room that I cannot remember.

    Keith: It was probably you. Typically, the father is so traumatized that he can’t remember anything that goes on for about 16 or 17 years.

  86. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 10, 2013 at 11:26 pm #

    Somewhere in the back of my mind I have a statistic that the mother is the informant for 70% of births, followed by the father, and a lesser number of grandparents. But I know that most of the time it is the mother.

    Reality Check: I have always maintained that it is more likely that Ann Dunham provided the information on Barack Obama, Sr. I can imagine a nurse stopping by Ann’s room to gather the info to put on the birth certificate.

  87. avatar
    JPotter December 11, 2013 at 1:13 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Somewhere in the back of my mind I have a statistic that the mother is the informant for 70% of births, followed by the father, and a lesser number of grandparents. But I know that most of the time it is the mother.

    I’ve only been through the process once, but I too would concur that it’s all about mother. In our case, the hospital gave all paperwork to her, and she roped me in from there.

    Hospital staff are service professionals, not there to get involved in patients personal relationships or ta put themselves in position of making judgments. They don’t need to know whether the birth was planned, expected, or seen as a joy or a burden, or the nature of the mother’s relationship with the baby’d father, or if any male around actually is the father. What they can be sure of, is that a baby came out of that lady, it belongs to her, and she’s responsible for it. Thus, the father is almost entirely unnecessary, humored, relegated to the status of amateur assistant.

  88. avatar
    Kate December 11, 2013 at 7:03 am #

    john:
    It should be noted that Barack Obama Sr. listed his race as “Kenya” (Kenyan) in his University of Hawaii Documents. So at BEST, Obama would have been declared “Kenyan” and at Worst, “NEGRO”. But “African”, No Way! http://www.scribd.com/doc/54015762/Barack-Hussein

    It should also be noted that EVERY Hawaii birth certificate that has been seen to date lists the race by country or region of origin, never by continent of origin. eg. Japanese for Japan not Asian, German for Germany not European.

    I have also looked a lot of other birth certificates from other states and have never seen any that would have a race of “African” today or from any other time.

    If the race “African” is really true, the race designation would be highly, highly highly highly highly highly highly highly unusual for the time.

    In 1990, Nelson Mandela in an interview with Ted Koppel was asked about how the different races were treated at the Robben Island prison where he was incarcerated. Koppel specifically said races and in his reply, Mandela talked about how the whites, coloreds and/or Indians were treated well while the Africans, like himself, were given lesser quality foods. He referred to himself as a member of the African race because that is how he and other blacks in Africa identified themselves racially.

    In the movie, Red Tails, about the all black Tuskegee Airmen, an exception group of pilots from WWII, there is a very enlightening scene that debunks your idea of the term “African” being used for race as highly unusual. When referring to a pilot who cruises at an altitude low enough to be seen, the German squadron leader upon seeing him for the first time says, “My God! Those pilots are African.” He clearly wasn’t referring to their country of origin as pilots because they were flying planes that were marked with the American flag. He knew they were pilots from the U.S. He was talking about their race. While one incident took place in 1945 and the other in 1990, President Obama’s original birth certificate was clearly filled out sometime in between those two dates with a term that was quite normal for his father to use when it came to his racial description. Despite your illogical depiction of it being an extremely unusual term to be used, it would have been unusual for Barack Obama, Sr. to refer to himself in any other manner when asked about race.

    Birthers have a hard time dealing with reality but in several history books I’ve found that it was a typical terminology used by blacks in Africa when referring to their race. You are wrong. Deal with it!

  89. avatar
    Kate December 11, 2013 at 7:15 am #

    john:
    It’s one the final pages in the immigration file.Here a link to that capture.http://www.wnd.com/2011/04/293113/

    Notice his race says “Kenya”.I would take that to mean “Kenyan”.So why wasn’t Obama Sr. reporting his race as “African”?In fact, all of his documents either says Kenya or British of his nationality and the best race indication we have is “Kenya”.No “African” designation is ever mentioned except on the birth certificate which is inconsistent.

    Also notice the birth date – June 18, 1934.This would make him 27 but he lists 25 on the birth certificate, again another inconsistency.Obama Sr. Started lying about his age about a year later when he trying to get into Havard.At the time of Obama’s birth, all official documents list Obama Sr. birth date as June 18, 1934 which would make him 27.

    There is no reason to believe that Barack Obama, Sr. gave that info regarding race to the person who filled out the form or are you trying to say he typed it out himself? He could easily have said “African” for race and whoever typed up the form changed it to Kenya, meaning Kenyan, thinking it was more specific despite it not being accurate. You are truly clueless when it comes to determining that Obama, Sr. identified himself racially as anything other than “African” despite many proven examples of why he did so and why others at the time did, also. Your smattering of a dozen or so birth certificates is meaningless when compared to the millions of birth certificates filled out annually. Just a typical birther fail.