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Donald Trump: Hillary Clinton and John McCain were “birthers.”

Trump told Anderson Cooper:

Did you know that Hillary Clinton was a birther? She wanted those records and fought like hell…. Did you know that John McCain was a birther? He wanted those records.

By the way, if you didn’t catch the Trump immigration event in Phoenix with an introduction by Joe Arpaio, it’s on YouTube. Arpaio starts about 52:00. Arpaio said about Trump:

A quirk of fate brought him and me on the same platform. Think of that.  We had a couple things in common; I won’t talk much about it, the birth certificate. Well, he investigated it and I am, so that’s common….

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130 Responses to Donald Trump: Hillary Clinton and John McCain were “birthers.”

  1. avatar
    Steve July 18, 2015 at 2:26 am #

    I still don’t get how Hillary’s supposed birfing gives it credibility.

  2. avatar
    Lupin July 18, 2015 at 3:07 am #

    Steve:
    I still don’t get how Hillary’s supposed birfing gives it credibility.

    It’s that weird American thing, “if they both do it, it’s OK”.

  3. avatar
    Lupin July 18, 2015 at 5:35 am #

    Wasn’t Trump’s mother a scotswoman? How do the Gerbils reconcile that fact with their support of the Donald?

  4. avatar
    Yoda July 18, 2015 at 6:22 am #

    Steve, it is a subtle way of saying that they are not racists.

  5. avatar
    RanTalbott July 18, 2015 at 9:12 am #

    It’s also interesting to see how many birthers swear that they remember Clinton going birfoon.

    We need a legal requirement that Birthers donate their bodies to science. That way, we may get some insight into whether birfoonery really is a symptom of a physical disease.

  6. avatar
    Yoda July 18, 2015 at 9:45 am #

    RanTalbott:
    It’s also interesting to see how many birthers swear that they remember Clinton going birfoon.

    We need a legal requirement that Birthers donate their bodies to science. That way, we may get some insight into whether birfoonery really is a symptom of a physical disease.

    How about how many of them swear that they remember their own definition of “Natural Born Citizen” being taught to them when they were in school?

  7. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 18, 2015 at 9:51 am #

    RanTalbott: It’s also interesting to see how many birthers swear that they remember Clinton going birfoon.

    Same way some birthers swear they saw the Obama/Keyes debate where they claim Obama said it didn’t matter if he was not born in America because he wasn’t running for President. Despite the fact that it never actually happened.

    The funniest lately was a birther claiming that they saw a video with Sarah Obama waiving the kenyan BC like a flag

  8. avatar
    Yoda July 18, 2015 at 9:55 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Same way some birthers swear they saw the Obama/Keyes debate where they claim Obama said it didn’t matter if he was not born in America because he wasn’t running for President.Despite the fact that it never actually happened.

    The funniest lately was a birther claiming that they saw a video with Sarah Obama waiving the kenyan BC like a flag

    And even Keyes denies it.

  9. avatar
    Woodrowfan July 18, 2015 at 10:01 am #

    if you’re old enough you may remember the old “Proctor & Gamble donates their profits to the Church of Satan” rumor that kept spreading. Some fundies panicked over the company’s logo with a moon and stars and though ti was Satanic. This was pre-WWW and still the company had to put out an official notice saying it was nonsense. One interesting details was how many people swore they saw a company Prez make the claim on a popular talk show, Merv Griffin. it didn’t matter that both the company and Griffin denied that the company Prez had ever been on the show, they insisted that they had in fact had seen it themselves!

  10. avatar
    wrecking ball July 18, 2015 at 10:48 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Same way some birthers swear they saw the Obama/Keyes debate …..

    this is one of the claims that always gets the “scrubbed from the web” defense.

  11. avatar
    J.D. Reed July 18, 2015 at 10:50 am #

    Wow/ That Hillary Cl;inton is one clever dame. She fights like hell in ’08 to get Obama’s birth certificate, and leaves not a trace of evidence, such as newspaper articles, archived TV news videos, campagn press releases, etc.
    Yes, you really have to hand it to this lady.
    Come to think of it, if she can make her birtherism disappear down the memory hole (except for The Donald’s, of course) maybe this abilty is what we need at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

  12. avatar
    alg July 18, 2015 at 11:16 am #

    J.D. Reed:
    Wow/ That Hillary Clinton is one clever dame. She fights like hell in ’08 to get Obama’s birth certificate, and leaves not a trace of evidence, such as newspaper articles, archived TV newsvideos, campagn press releases, etc.
    Yes, you really have to hand it to this lady.
    Come to think of it, if she can make her birtherism disappear down the memory hole (except for The Donald’s, of course) maybe this abilty is what we need at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

    Hillary must have had all this stuff on her personal server. 😉

    Of course, what’s amusing about all of this is that President Obama’s COLB was publically available in 2008 and here we are seven years later and Donald Trump still can’t find it. What does that tell you about his capacity to run a country?

  13. avatar
    Steve July 18, 2015 at 11:55 am #

    Yoda:
    Steve, it is a subtle way of saying that they are not racists.

    Which explains the usefulness of Alan Keyes and Pastor Manning, I guess.

  14. avatar
    Dave B. July 18, 2015 at 3:07 pm #

    The way I heard it, this feller was looking for a brain transplant. So he goes brain-shopping, and looks at all the models they had available. They bring out some plain old doctor brains, and they’re going at a pretty good price, about $5000 a pound. He’s got a little money to spend, though, so he wants to see what they’ve got that’s really special. So they bring out some quantum physicist brains, and they’re going for about $10000 a pound. But he wants to see something really special, so they have a quick whispered consult among themselves, and take him into a special room to see the most expensive brains they have– birther brains. One million dollars an ounce, sitting there like little cue-balls. Now he’s pretty impressed by that figure, but he wants to know what’s so special about these birther brains. So they tell him-
    “You see, sir, unlike the others, these brains have never been used. And do you have any idea how many birthers it takes to come up with an ounce of brains?”

    RanTalbott: We need a legal requirement that Birthers donate their bodies to science. That way, we may get some insight into whether birfoonery really is a symptom of a physical disease.

  15. avatar
    OllieOxenFree July 18, 2015 at 7:24 pm #

    The Donald may have officially sunk his own ship today when he challenged calling McCain a war hero.

    “He is a war hero because he was captured,” Trump said. “I like people that weren’t captured, OK? I hate to tell you. He is a war hero because he was captured. OK, you can have — I believe perhaps he is a war hero.”

    His change in tone in the end there happened only because he was being booed by people in the audience.

    You can insult illegal immigrants and poll high with Fox/extreme right wing individuals.

    When you insult American PoW’s… not so much.

  16. avatar
    Yoda July 18, 2015 at 7:27 pm #

    Birdboy supports Trump

    ★FALCON★ 142p · 19 minutes ago

    Over the next few days you are going to hear the Elite Establishment in the Uniparty attempt to tear down Trump over his remarks about John McCain – personally, I don’t really care for Trump, but let’s set the record straight.

    John McCain’s father had a grudge with James Forrestal. Yes, the same person who had a ship named after him. In my opinion, McCain attempted to destroy the USS Forrestal in an act of revenge. How the hell he fired a missile while still on the flight deck is one of the greatest mysteries of the Vietnam war. Almost sunk the ship – and then when the firefighters arrived on deck – McCain ran – he jumped from the cockpit and that’s why you see pictures of him on crutches. He says he strained his ankle. Some war hero. Almost sunk his own ship – and gets a purple heart for twisting his own ankle after jumping and running away. The fire blazed for over 12 hours and McCain never once lifted a finger to help extinguish it. Burnt through the flight deck and asphalt down to concrete.

    James Forrestal was an original member of Majestic12. And yes, another of those crazy conspiracy theories that has been proven to be true. Forrestal was tossed out of a window at a Naval Hospital and guess what – he discovered he couldn’t fly. He didn’t have wings.

    John McCain, while in captivity at the Hanoi Hilton, delivered 32 tape recorded messages to our own troops in an attempt to derail our involvement in the fight against communism. John McCain also ratted out troop positions and got hundreds, if not thousands, of troops killed. In other words, he’s a traitor, not a hero, unless you consider Bergdahl a hero, and in that case, you’re a communist.

  17. avatar
    Kate July 19, 2015 at 8:11 am #

    Trump says, “I’m about jobs, the military, making this country great again. I’m through with all that (in reference to the b.c.)” When in reality, the only thing Trump is about is self-promotion. Just listen to him, if you can do so without becoming nauseous, he’ll tell you that he’s really, really rich and really, really smart. Trump has to promote himself because nobody else has wanted to do so. Now, of course, he has the extremists among the RW’ers, that 20 to 25% or so who continued to believe in Bush no matter what he did.

    Considering the history of those who are currently supporting him, it’s not likely he’ll pick up more than a few stragglers as other potential nominees drop out after the debates. They’ll be disbursed among Jeb, Rubio, Huckabee and even Cruz.

    During an interview over the weekend, Trump was asked by an audience member if he would promise not to run as a 3rd party candidate so as not to sink the GOP’s chances of winning the Presidency. The guy who’s all about “making America great again” mocked that suggestion. That’s supposedy not even a question that needs to be asked as Trump said he’ll not only get the nomination but he’s going to get the Hispanic vote, too, cause he loves the Hispanics and they love him.

    Can anyone recall a candidate with such a ridiculously overinflated ego that was expressed so publicly prior to Trump? In any election, presidential or otherwise?

  18. avatar
    Sluffy1 July 19, 2015 at 8:41 am #

    Kate: Can anyone recall a candidate with such a ridiculously overinflated ego that was expressed so publicly prior to Trump? In any election, presidential or otherwise?

    Trumps gestures remind me of those used by Mussolini.. that self satisfied smirk and nod…. and his use of superlatives, fantastic. awesome, tremendous,… he can’t even use a single “very”… with Trump it’s very very … the whack-jobs love that style.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 19, 2015 at 9:07 am #

    Trump’s clueless comments will, one by one, alienate everybody. He’s done for.

    Here’s my favorite from Obots.org:

    http://www.obots.org/archives/234

    OllieOxenFree: “He is a war hero because he was captured,” Trump said. “I like people that weren’t captured, OK? I hate to tell you. He is a war hero because he was captured. OK, you can have — I believe perhaps he is a war hero.”

  20. avatar
    Woodrowfan July 19, 2015 at 9:34 am #

    Yoda:
    Birdboy supports Trump

    ★FALCON★ 142p · 19 minutes ago

    Over the next few days you are going to hear the Elite Establishment in the Uniparty attempt to tear down Trump over his remarks about John McCain – personally, I don’t really care for Trump, but let’s set the record straight.

    John McCain’s father had a grudge with James Forrestal. Yes, the same person who had a ship named after him. In my opinion, McCain attempted to destroy the USS Forrestal in an act of revenge. How the hell he fired a missile while still on the flight deck is one of the greatest mysteries of the Vietnam war. Almost sunk the ship – and then when the firefighters arrived on deck – McCain ran – he jumped from the cockpit and that’s why you see pictures of him on crutches. He says he strained his ankle. Some war hero. Almost sunk his own ship – and gets a purple heart for twisting his own ankle after jumping and running away. The fire blazed for over 12 hours and McCain never once lifted a finger to help extinguish it. Burnt through the flight deck and asphalt down to concrete.

    James Forrestal was an original member of Majestic12. And yes, another of those crazy conspiracy theories that has been proven to be true. Forrestal was tossed out of a window at a Naval Hospital and guess what – he discovered he couldn’t fly. He didn’t have wings.

    John McCain, while in captivity at the Hanoi Hilton, delivered 32 tape recorded messages to our own troops in an attempt to derail our involvement in the fight against communism. John McCain also ratted out troop positions and got hundreds, if not thousands, of troops killed. In other words, he’s a traitor, not a hero, unless you consider Bergdahl a hero, and in that case, you’re a communist.

    I bet Falcon is a joy to be around in real life. wow. You just know his family debates even inviting him to family events. and then they argue who has to sit next to him this year… “I sat next to him last year! it’s you turn this time!!”

    side note: how in God’s name would a Navy pilot know enough about “troop positions” to tell the North Vietnamese, especially after being in prison???

  21. avatar
    Kate July 19, 2015 at 9:46 am #

    Woodrowfan:

    side note: how in God’s name would a Navy pilot know enough about “troop positions” to tell the North Vietnamese, especially after being in prison???

    You’re thinking rationally when you talk about how McCain couldn’t possibly have pertinent info for the Vietnamese after being in a POW camp for 5 years or so. That’s a state of mind with which birthers are not familiar. That’s why they’re birthers and Trump supporters, their inability to “think” is all too well known.

  22. avatar
    john July 19, 2015 at 10:40 am #

    I see Trump’s point but it came over very badly. If you are a Hero, you are killing the enemy not getting captured. Those who get captured do serve honorly as there is a strict code for POWs but I am really with Trump, I don’t think they really are War Heros. War Heros take down the enemy, Murphy, York, Rickenbacker. They don’t get captured. POWs have great honor for enduring hardship but I wouldn’t consider them War Heros in a sense.

    In fact the UCMJ actually considers it a Death Penalty offense for soldiers who cause their unit the be captured or become POWs.:

    § 899. Art. 99. Misbehavior before the enemy
    § 900. Art. 100. Subordinate compelling surrender

    Go Donald Trump for 2016!!!

    I’m still marking my money bills – Vote Donald Trump 2016!!!

    *Contrary to popular belief it is not illegal to deface or write on your money bills. It is only illegal if it YOUR INTENT to make the bill unfit for circulation.

  23. avatar
    bgansel9 July 19, 2015 at 10:58 am #

    john: Go Donald Trump for 2016!!!

    Yeah, I can see how you would support someone who didn’t even have the balls to go to Vietnam when John McCain actually did. Why am I not surprised?

    Oh, and if I see any “Vote for Donald 2016” currency, I’ll save it for you in my piggy bank. 😛

  24. avatar
    Benji Franklin July 19, 2015 at 11:04 am #

    john: War Heros take down the enemy,

    And Birther “heroes” fail interminably at ending, or even casting the slightest doubt upon the Constitutional Presidential eligibility of Obama, our current two term President of the United States of America. In their intent, Birther “heroes” are odious, anarchistic, Constitution-trampling lunatics, but based on the outcomes of their anti-Obama initiatives, they are Obot heroes!

  25. avatar
    JD Reed July 19, 2015 at 11:08 am #

    I find the implication that soldiers who get captured somehow lesser beings than those who don’t, to be offensive. Sometimes there’s nothing humanly possible a combat pilot can do to avoid being shot down. And once shot down the pilot may not find it humanly possible short of suicide to avoid capture. The heroism part lies in exposing himself to potentially fatal antiaircraft fire to carry out his mission.

  26. avatar
    Dave B. July 19, 2015 at 11:14 am #

    You idiot. You pure, simpering idiot. I’ll repeat what Colonel Drake said:
    “Let no man believe that there is a stigma attached to having been honorably taken captive in battle. Only the fighting man ever gets close enough to the enemy for that to happen. That he is not listed among the slain is due to the infinite care of providence. Be proud that you carried yourselves as men in battle and adversity. You will be enriched thereby.”
    You can read about how Drake was taken prisoner– and my father was right there with him– on pages 21-23, paragraphs 35 & 36, of this excellent history:

    http://www.34infdiv.org/history/168inf/4212-4303DrakeRpt.pdf

    You can read what their captor said:
    *I want to compliment your command for the splendid fight they put up. It was a hopeless thing from the start, but they fought like real soldiers.”

    Oh, and read what Major General Ryder wrote about the 168th in the very first page of that report.

    And then you can just shut the hell up, and not say another goddamn word about it.

    john: War Heros take down the enemy, Murphy, York, Rickenbacker. They don’t get captured.

  27. avatar
    Woodrowfan July 19, 2015 at 11:56 am #

    “Gabby” Gabreski shot down 28 German planes in WWII and another 6.5 in Korea. But in WWII he ended up flying “one more mission” even though he was supposed to go home that day. he’d finished his tour and was going to be married. He ended up crashing after his plane was damaged while attacking German aircraft on the ground. He was captured and spent the last year of the war in a POW camp. He was a jet ace in Korea. According to Trump, Gabreski is not a war hero.

  28. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile July 19, 2015 at 12:01 pm #

    Go eat a gun, john.

  29. avatar
    Dave B. July 19, 2015 at 12:08 pm #

    It’s beyond offensive. It’s a rationale the Japanese used for their treatment of prisoners in the Second World War. This moron thinks he’s Tojo or something.

    JD Reed: I find the implication that soldiers who get captured somehow lesser beings than those who don’t, to be offensive.

  30. avatar
    truxton spangler July 19, 2015 at 12:15 pm #

    Lupin:
    Wasn’t Trump’s mother a scotswoman? How do the Gerbils reconcile that fact with their support of the Donald?

    Ha, this is true, though I suppose it’s possible that she was naturalized before Donald was born. (Would that suffice for the birthers – a child born to a “natural born” citizen father and a naturalized mother? Probably depends on the candidate.)

  31. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 19, 2015 at 12:41 pm #

    john: § 899. Art. 99. Misbehavior before the enemy

    That doesn’t support your position of being captured somehow is a criminal offense.

    john: § 900. Art. 100. Subordinate compelling surrender

    Also doesn’t support your claim about being captured.

    So again you lied. You can’t read what it says and then claim it’s a death penalty offense. GFY John.

  32. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile July 19, 2015 at 12:45 pm #

    Im related to Richard Nott Antrim, on my mother’s side. He was a POW at a Japanese camp in WWII, and was given the Medal of Honor for his bravery, in stopping another prisoner from taking a savage beating. He also covertly signaled US airmen that American POWs were being held there, at great personal risk. So john can go f— himself.

  33. avatar
    J.D. Sue July 19, 2015 at 12:50 pm #

    Dave B.: You can read about how Drake was taken prisoner– and my father was right there with him– on pages 21-23, paragraphs 35 & 36, of this excellent history:

    —-
    What an incredibly moving story and testament to courage and endurance. I remember my father (artillery; medic) once told me that–more than death–he had feared being captured by the Germans.

  34. avatar
    john July 19, 2015 at 1:09 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: That doesn’t support your position of being captured somehow is a criminal offense.

    Also doesn’t support your claim about being captured.

    So again you lied.You can’t read what it says and then claim it’s a death penalty offense.GFY John.

    Becoming captured or a POW is sometimes unavoidable. But, any person who precipitates their own surrender could be guilty of crimes punishable by death. As a POW, there is a strict code that has to be followed. POWs who fail to follow the code can be severely punished if they survive and are released. The Military is very tough on the concept of surrender or being a POW. You don’t surrender and if you have no choice then you better be a good fiesty POW are you going to get it.

  35. avatar
    Kate July 19, 2015 at 1:10 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —-
    What an incredibly moving story and testament to courage and endurance.I remember my father (artillery; medic) once told me that–more than death–he had feared being captured by the Germans.

    I remember hearing the same from my father, J.D. Sue. His plane was shot down 6 days after D-Day and it was only due to the courage of other soldiers that he was not captured by the enemy but neither were any of the men who rescued him. He spent several months recuperating overseas but he gave thanks daily for those who risked their own lives to save his. He would be horrified to hear Trump, who used his wealthy father’s connections to receive several deferments, call out those who were captured as POW’s as somehow being lesser soldiers. As for John, his opinion is not worthy of anyone’s consideration.

    I’m watching MSNBC at the moment and they’re interviewing Bob Kerrey, former Governor and Senator of Nebraska, and I think he just hit the nail on the head with his assessment of Trump. He said Trump isn’t in the primaries to actually become President, he’s in it to increase the value of his brand. It’s certainly why he did it in 2012, pretending for a few months he was going to run and likely why he’s allegedly running for office now. It’s also why he’s spent a minimal amount of money and has said he doesn’t need to campaign in various states like Iowa and NH as other candidates do. If his net worth is really over $10B, does anyone think he would allow it to be put into the hands of others while he was President? Not a chance. His ego would never allow anyone else to make those decisions.

  36. avatar
    john July 19, 2015 at 1:12 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: That doesn’t support your position of being captured somehow is a criminal offense.

    Also doesn’t support your claim about being captured.

    So again you lied.You can’t read what it says and then claim it’s a death penalty offense.GFY John.

    Any member of the armed forces who before or in the presence of the enemy—
    shamefully abandons, surrenders, or delivers up any command, unit, place, or military property which it is his duty to defend;
    shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
    Any person subject to this chapter who compels or attempts to compel the commander of any place, vessel, aircraft, or other military property, or of any body of members of the armed forces, to give it up to an enemy or to abandon it, or who strikes the colors or flag to an enemy without proper authority, shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

  37. avatar
    Dave B. July 19, 2015 at 1:15 pm #

    You just don’t get it, do you? Every word you say just adds to the already considerable pile of evidence of what a contemptible cur you are.

    john: Becoming captured or a POW is sometimes unavoidable.But, any person who precipitates their own surrender could be guilty of crimes punishable by death.As a POW, there is a strict code that has to be followed. POWs who fail to follow the code can be severely punished if they survive and are released.The Military is very tough on the concept of surrender or being a POW.You don’t surrender and if you have no choice then you better be a good fiesty POW are you going to get it.

  38. avatar
    john July 19, 2015 at 1:17 pm #

    So my point is that POWs are honorable soldiers like any other solider but I would not necessarilly consider them War Heros. Being captured I do consider a demerit and there is difference between a solider who has not been captured versus soliders who have been captured. You of course, do have there record to also consider along with that.

  39. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile July 19, 2015 at 1:21 pm #

    john:
    So my point is that POWs are honorable soldiers like any other solider but I would not necessarilly consider them War Heros.Being captured I do consider a demerit and there is difference between a solider who has not been captured versus soliders who have been captured.You of course, do have there record to also consider along with that.

    And I say, die Birther scum!

  40. avatar
    elmo July 19, 2015 at 1:28 pm #

    A “birther” is someone who continues to question President Obama’s eligibility despite the factual evidence and legal precedent to the contrary. Neither Clinton or McCain are birthers.

  41. avatar
    Kate July 19, 2015 at 1:29 pm #

    john:
    So my point is that POWs are honorable soldiers like any other solider but I would not necessarilly consider them War Heros.Being captured I do consider a demerit and there is difference between a solider who has not been captured versus soliders who have been captured.You of course, do have there record to also consider along with that.

    Nobody cares what you think of them. You consider their having been captured a demerit? Really? How dare they allow themselves to be shot down, right? They were only flying over enemy territory due to their orders but somehow it’s their fault they were shot down and captured? B.S.! Instead, if they had done like your hero Trump did, they could have stayed stateside, receiving several deferments for schooling and then one for a supposed spur in his foot. What a f’ing hero he was!

    Can I ask how old you are, John? You come across as a young kid without knowledge of the real world, that’s why I ask. It seems to me you could easily be of an age to still qualify for military service. Did you volunteer to serve your country after 9/11 or are you an armchair patriot?

  42. avatar
    Dave B. July 19, 2015 at 1:30 pm #

    “Only the fighting man ever gets close enough to the enemy for that to happen.”

    john: Being captured I do consider a demerit and there is difference between a solider who has not been captured versus soliders who have been captured.

    You’re BENEATH contempt.

  43. avatar
    Rickey July 19, 2015 at 1:37 pm #

    Yoda:
    Birdboy supports Trump

    ★FALCON★ 142p · 19 minutes ago

    Over the next few days you are going to hear the Elite Establishment in the Uniparty attempt to tear down Trump over his remarks about John McCain – personally, I don’t really care for Trump, but let’s set the record straight.

    John McCain’s father had a grudge with James Forrestal. Yes, the same person who had a ship named after him. In my opinion, McCain attempted to destroy the USS Forrestal in an act of revenge. How the hell he fired a missile while still on the flight deck is one of the greatest mysteries of the Vietnam war. .

    Birdboy can’t even get the basic facts right. McCain didn’t fire a missile. His plane was hit by a missile which was accidentally fired by an F-4 fighter jet which was sitting on the flight deck approximately 100 feet behind McCain’s plane.

  44. avatar
    Dave B. July 19, 2015 at 1:40 pm #

    I knew several veterans of the New Mexico National Guard who’d been captured at Bataan. People who remember how they were treated as prisoners sometimes forget what a fight they’d put up for MONTHS, abandoned without supply or support. Was there some “demerit” in their conduct? Were they inferior to the soldiers who on a tide of victory retook Bataan nearly three years later?

    john: Being captured I do consider a demerit and there is difference between a solider who has not been captured versus soliders who have been captured.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 19, 2015 at 2:29 pm #

    I checked. She was naturalized according to the 1940 census.

    truxton spangler: I suppose it’s possible that she was naturalized before Donald was born.

  46. avatar
    JD Reed July 19, 2015 at 2:34 pm #

    In the chaos of combat, who dies, who gets captured and who gets away unscathed is often a matter of the merest chance, the luck of the draw.

  47. avatar
    Rickey July 19, 2015 at 2:42 pm #

    john:
    I see Trump’s point but it came over very badly.If you are a Hero, you are killing the enemy not getting captured.Those who get captured do serve honorly as there is a strict code for POWs but I am really with Trump, I don’t think they really are War Heros.War Heros take down the enemy, Murphy, York, Rickenbacker. They don’t get captured.POWs have great honor for enduring hardship but I wouldn’t consider them War Heros in a sense.

    There is nothing quite like listening to chickenhawks such as you and Trump pontificating on subjects about which you know nothing.

    John McCain was nearly killed in a horrendous fire aboard USS Forrestal in the summer of 1967. He could have returned home with his squadron when the ship had to return to Virginia for repairs. Instead, he volunteered to continue flying missions over North Vietnam and he was transferred to a squadron aboard USS Oriskany. He successfully flew 22 bombing missions and was awarded the Navy Commendation Medal and a Bronze Star.

    On his 23rd bombing mission, McCain’s plane was hit by a surface-to-air missile and was going to crash, so he ejected. He landed in a lake with two broken arms and a broken leg. He nearly drowned but was fished out of the lake by the North Vietnamese.

    Roughly six months after McCain was captured, your hero Trump graduated from the Wharton School of Business and lost his student deferment. He was classified 1-A, and he finally was required to appear for a pre-induction physical exam on September 17, 1968. A month after his physical he was reclassified 1-Y, meaning that he could be drafted only in the event of a declared war or a national emergency. He was reclassified for an unknown medical condition, which he now claims was a bone spur in one of his heels (but he has conveniently forgotten which heel it was).

    Compare and contrast:

    John McCain, nearly killed in a fire aboard an aircraft carrier, nevertheless volunteers to be assigned to another aircraft carrier, where he flies 22 successful bombing missions before being shot down and captured by the enemy after breaking both arms and a leg.

    Donald Trump, recipient of multiple student deferments so he can attend college and graduate school, fails to volunteer for anything, and when he finally appears for a pre-induction physical he is disqualified because of a bone spur.

    Now tell me which man is a hero.

  48. avatar
    Yoda July 19, 2015 at 3:01 pm #

    The primary issue I have with McCain is the fact that he inflicted Palin on this country.

  49. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 19, 2015 at 3:02 pm #

    john: Becoming captured or a POW is sometimes unavoidable. But, any person who precipitates their own surrender could be guilty of crimes punishable by death. As a POW, there is a strict code that has to be followed. POWs who fail to follow the code can be severely punished if they survive and are released. The Military is very tough on the concept of surrender or being a POW. You don’t surrender and if you have no choice then you better be a good fiesty POW are you going to get it.

    Nowhere in the sections you spoke of does it have to do with personally being captured being a crime punishable by death in the United States. You lied plain and simple.

    Please provide some cases where United States military personnel was captured by enemy forces and subsequently put to death by the United States.

    Anything short of that and you can GFY

  50. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 19, 2015 at 3:03 pm #

    john: So my point is that POWs are honorable soldiers like any other solider but I would not necessarilly consider them War Heros. Being captured I do consider a demerit and there is difference between a solider who has not been captured versus soliders who have been captured. You of course, do have there record to also consider along with that.

    Your point is that you’re a despicable piece of S*** with no morals whatsoever. You continue to prattle on about things you know nothing about and are nothing more than a coward who couldn’t serve in the uniform himself but is willing to denigrate those who do. You’re nothing more than an unamerican S***stain.

  51. avatar
    Reality Check July 19, 2015 at 3:12 pm #

    Yes, that was just unforgivable.

    Yoda:
    The primary issue I have with McCain is the fact that he inflicted Palin on this country.

  52. avatar
    Joey July 19, 2015 at 3:28 pm #

    john:
    So my point is that POWs are honorable soldiers like any other solider but I would not necessarilly consider them War Heros.Being captured I do consider a demerit and there is difference between a solider who has not been captured versus soliders who have been captured.You of course, do have there record to also consider along with that.

    John Sidney McCain III, Captain U.S. Navy (Retired)
    Awards and Commendations
    Naval Aviator badge
    Silver Star
    Legion of Merit with Combat Distinguishing Device and one star
    Distinguished Flying Cross
    Bronze Star with Combat Distinguishing Device and two stars
    Purple Heart with one Star
    Meritorious Service Medal
    Air Medal with One Star and Strike/Flight Numeral “2”
    Navy Commendation Medal with Combat Distinguishing Device and one star
    Combat Action Ribbon
    Prisoner of War Medal
    Navy Expeditionary Medal
    National Defense Service Medal with one star
    Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal
    Vietnam Service Medal with two stars
    Commander of the National Order of Vietnam
    Republic of Vietnam Meritorious Unit Citation

  53. avatar
    Arthur B. July 19, 2015 at 3:47 pm #

    Yoda: The primary issue I have with McCain is the fact that he inflicted Palin on this country.

    It does provide an interesting context for his complaint about Trump firing up the crazies.

  54. avatar
    J.D. Sue July 19, 2015 at 4:04 pm #

    Kate: I remember hearing the same from my father, J.D. Sue. His plane was shot down 6 days after D-Day and it was only due to the courage of other soldiers that he was not captured by the enemy

    —-
    May their names and deeds be remembered always.

    They were fighting fascism. Like the stuff John promotes. Our resident birther is a little fascist who enjoys cheering on the megalomaniac of the day, while denigrating everyone else, and while waiting with bated breath the punishment of his preferred scapegoats. His opinion matters to me only in the sense that he reminds me that fighting fascism takes vigilance in every generation.

  55. avatar
    Northland10 July 19, 2015 at 4:44 pm #

    John’s idea of a hero is somebody who refuses the orders of his Commanding Officer (a Medal of Honor recipient), forcing another doctor to deploy to a war zone in the “hero’s” place. For John, a hero will gladly risk the lives of their comrades in arms for their own benefit.

  56. avatar
    y_p_w July 19, 2015 at 5:57 pm #

    Kate:
    Can anyone recall a candidate with such a ridiculously overinflated ego that was expressed so publicly prior to Trump?In any election, presidential or otherwise?

    Ross Perot. Steve Forbes maybe?

    I’m pretty sure there were some perhaps over a hundred years ago, but there wouldn’t have been to the minute news coverage.

  57. avatar
    Dave B. July 19, 2015 at 6:08 pm #

    Another of John’s kindred spirits: Joseph Stalin. Under Stalin’s Order No. 270, not only were hundreds of thousands of returned Soviet prisoners of war sent to the gulag as traitors; families of soldiers who surrendered or were captured were subject to punishment as well.

    J.D. Sue: Our resident birther is a little fascist who enjoys cheering on the megalomaniac of the day, while denigrating everyone else, and while waiting with bated breath the punishment of his preferred scapegoats.

  58. avatar
    RanTalbott July 19, 2015 at 7:02 pm #

    Yoda: The primary issue I have with McCain is the fact that he inflicted Palin on this country.

    One of the best things he’s ever done: he opened an endless vein of comedy gold, and torpedoed his chances (which were still pretty good at the time) of becoming an awful president.

  59. avatar
    Yoda July 19, 2015 at 7:04 pm #

    RanTalbott: One of the best things he’s ever done: he opened an endless vein of comedy gold, and torpedoed his chances (which were still pretty good at the time) of becoming an awful president.

    Except she is like the “Man who came to Dinner”, she just never goes away.

  60. avatar
    OllieOxenFree July 19, 2015 at 8:45 pm #

    john: I see Trump’s point but it came over very badly. If you are a Hero, you are killing the enemy not getting captured.

    This is a stupid argument. It’s as if you believe McCain flew one mission, was shot down and that was it.

    Truth is, he flew many missions into enemy territory and led several missions that resulted in the destruction of enemy military targets, including the successful attack of the Phúc Yên Air Base for which he earned the Bronze Star. So by your own definition, McCain was a war hero, correct? Surely you cannot be so intellectually dishonest as to deny that fact.

  61. avatar
    RanTalbott July 19, 2015 at 9:05 pm #

    Arthur B.: It does provide an interesting context for his complaint about Trump firing up the crazies.

    “Don’t be a fool: learn from my mistakes”, perhaps? 😉

  62. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 19, 2015 at 10:08 pm #

    Of course he can.

    And stop calling him Shirley.

    Northland10 hit it on the head: someone who thinks convicted felon Lakin is a hero obviously has no idea what honor is. As if his behavior over the years has not made this patently obvious.

    OllieOxenFree: This is a stupid argument. It’s as if you believe McCain flew one mission, was shot down and that was it.

    Truth is, he flew many missions into enemy territory and led several missions that resulted in the destruction of enemy military targets, including the successful attack of the Phúc Yên Air Base for which he earned the Bronze Star. So by your own definition, McCain was a war hero, correct? Surely you cannot be so intellectually dishonest as to deny that fact.

  63. avatar
    John Reilly July 19, 2015 at 10:21 pm #

    Donald Trump.

    Disgraceful.

  64. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 19, 2015 at 11:10 pm #

    At this point, I won’t be at all surprised if birther john up and says something along the lines of “I’m not saying Hitler was right, but he had some pretty good ideas!”.
    To me it seems like Doc keeps him around, as a cautionary tale of what a hopelessly poisoned mind and soul look like.

  65. avatar
    Keith July 20, 2015 at 1:37 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    To me it seems like Doc keeps him around, as a cautionary tale of what a hopelessly poisoned mind and soul look like.

    World of difference between ‘keeps him around’ and ‘doesn’t burn his backside’.

  66. avatar
    Lupin July 20, 2015 at 2:25 am #

    Surely I’m not the first one to poi\nt that out, but where was the outrage when John Kerry was attacked?

    As was the case with the French Indochina or Algerian wars, I don’t consider the Vietnam war “moral” and while I respect the courage of the men who did their duty, even in a bad cause, I generally don’t like using the word “hero” in connection with their service.

    My dad served in the Algerian war (long military tradition in my family) — though in the medical corps — and I don’t recall any of his military buddies who’d served in either or both conflicts using the word either. They usually expressed sadness or regrets, not pride.

    I think it is jingoistic and leaves a bad taste, especially when applied to someone who was bombing civilian populations from high in the air.

  67. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) July 20, 2015 at 4:13 am #

    Kate: I remember hearing the same from my father, J.D. Sue. His plane was shot down 6 days after D-Day and it was only due to the courage of other soldiers that he was not captured by the enemy

    My father actually was the enemy (he was a bomber pilot in the Luftwaffe) but fortunately was shot down over the English Channel during his very first mission so he never killed anyone. He was a POW in England for a short time, then got transfered over to Canada where he spent the rest of the war (which was pretty much like summer camp from what he tells me).

  68. avatar
    Sluffy1 July 20, 2015 at 6:11 am #

    Hero. The title has been over used and diminished.
    A war hero is one who displays great courage and uncommon valor. He’s the guy that charges the machine gun, or dives on a grenade. He is the citizen that dives into frozen water to save survivors of plane crash while others stand by just watching.

    The lone act of serving in the military, or being involved in “action”, or being a POW
    doesn’t automatically qualify you as a “hero” in my eyes.
    It takes more than being brave or highly decorated to be a hero.

    Lupin: Surely I’m not the first one to poi\nt that out, but where was the outrage when John Kerry was attacked?
    As was the case with the French Indochina or Algerian wars, I don’t consider the Vietnam war “moral” and while I respect the courage of the men who did their duty, even in a bad cause, I generally don’t like using the word “hero” in connection with their service.

    My thoughts too.

  69. avatar
    Kate July 20, 2015 at 6:50 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): My father actually was the enemy (he was a bomber pilot in the Luftwaffe) but fortunately was shot down over the English Channel during his very first mission so he never killed anyone. He was a POW in England for a short time, then got transfered over to Canada where he spent the rest of the war (which was pretty much like summer camp from what he tells me).

    What a small world! Are you living in the U.S. now or still in Germany? Your father may have been considered the enemy then however, I’m happy to hear that we treated POW in the manner we wished ours to be treated. I’m embarrassed to say that after all I’ve read about WWII and heard from my father and uncles, I had no idea that there were POW camps in Canada.

  70. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) July 20, 2015 at 8:21 am #

    Kate: Are you living in the U.S. now or still in Germany?

    Still in Germany. If it weren’t for my job which I love, I’d move over in an instant. 😉

    Kate: I’m happy to hear that we treated POW in the manner we wished ours to be treated

    From what my father tells me, higher ranks (as he was) were treated better than lower ones (which is kinda ironic since it’s the higher ranks making the decisions and sending people off to kill other people).

    Kate: I had no idea that there were POW camps in Canada

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_prisoner-of-war_camps_in_Canada

    Would have to ask my father where exactly he was.
    But since he never fully rejected Nazi ideology, I’m usually happy if he does *not* talk about the war.

  71. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2015 at 9:08 am #

    BTW, I’ve ended my boycott of Macy’s.

  72. avatar
    Lupin July 20, 2015 at 9:09 am #

    As a member of the town council, I go every year (on D-Day and on November 11, Veterans’ day) to deposit a wreath at the war Memorial Monument, so obviously I have respect for those soldiers who paid the ultimate price.

    More controversial is the ceremony commemorating the battle of Camerone where an outpost of the French Foreign Legion was annihilated by the Mexican army, but fought bravely to the end. The head of the outpost Captain Danjou, was from our town, so we commemorate the memories of that defeat every year. We are occasionally joined by representatives from Mexico.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n

    The French had no business being in Mexico and this was a terrible waste of human lives. Although Camerone has become synonymous with bravery and fight-to-the-death in our military history, there is still a certain moral ambiguity amongst the locals (myself included) about “celebrating” it. There is a difference between “remembering” and “celebrating” and this illustrates it well, i think.

    Getting back to Viet-Nam, I do not doubt that McCain was brave; I certainly respect the fact he served with distinction, but calling him a “hero” for bombing civilians is IMHO a step too far.

    Of course none of this is what the idiot Trump meant.

  73. avatar
    alg July 20, 2015 at 9:13 am #

    Of course, this article isn’t really about Trump’s reprehensible comments about John McCain. It’s about Trump fallaciously perpetuating the birther meme that Clinton and McCain started the birther movement. That should raise questions about what Trump spends his free time on. It should also raise eyebrows about Trump’s tendency to repeat fictional claims as if they were true.

    That said, Trump’s inappropriate comments about McCain’s military record have pretty much ended his nascent campaign. It’s too bad it’s taken till now for the GOP candidates to get some balls and take him on.

  74. avatar
    john July 20, 2015 at 9:31 am #

    Donald Trump is really a Dream come true but I do realize he also a Pipe Dream. Trump is wonderful. He is a candidate that does not answer to the powers that be or the Washington establishment making him very unique. All the other candidates are trash. I really can’t wait to see Trump in the first debate as it is nearly certain he will make it unless they come up some way of keeping him out of it (Trump’s number gaurantee him a spot regardless of what happens.) It will be great to see Trump take apart each candidate piece by piece.

    As with MCcain, He did call veterans “Crazies” which is just as offensive. MCcain also turned his back on Lt. Col. Terry Lakin.

  75. avatar
    Bob July 20, 2015 at 9:54 am #

    I doubt that Fox/RNC will allow Trump near the debate.

  76. avatar
    john July 20, 2015 at 9:59 am #

    Bob:
    I doubt that Fox/RNC will allow Trump near the debate.

    Trump’s number gaurantee him a spot regardless of what happens now, even if Trump’s support were to disappear. Assuming they don’t “Invent” some other reason to keep him out, Trump is in. The GOP and RNC can kiss their chances goodbye if they keep Trump out of the debate. The response will enormous.

  77. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile July 20, 2015 at 10:09 am #

    john:
    As with MCcain, He did call veterans “Crazies” which is just as offensive.MCcain also turned his back on Lt. Col.Terry Lakin.

    McCain served his country, Lakin abandoned it.
    Lakin is an unamerican piece of garbage, that should have been lined up to a wall and shot dead. That’s what we used to do with deserters. I wouldn’t be against bringing that back.

  78. avatar
    Rickey July 20, 2015 at 10:13 am #

    john:

    As with MCcain, He did call veterans “Crazies” which is just as offensive.

    Wrong. When McCain accused Trump of “firing up the crazies,” he was referring to people such as you.

    MCcain also turned his back on Lt. Col.Terry Lakin.

    Wrong again. It was Lakin who turned his back on his country and on his fellow soldiers.

  79. avatar
    Rickey July 20, 2015 at 10:26 am #

    Bob:
    I doubt that Fox/RNC will allow Trump near the debate.

    According to NBC News, the RNC has no say in the matter. And if Fox News were to replace Trump with a candidate who doesn’t meet the criteria for inclusion, the action would be considered an illegal campaign contribution.

    Why Fox and GOP can’t dump Trump from that first debate

    Over the weekend, we heard lots of commentary that the Republican National Committee and/or Fox News should exclude Trump from that first GOP debate in August. But according to Federal Election Commission regulations, only a “bona fide staging organization” can host a debate — and in this case, it’s the media organization (Fox News). What’s more, if debate organizers tried to include/remove someone who didn’t meet stated criteria, the action would be considered an illegal political contribution.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/first-read-tipping-point-donald-trump-n394976

  80. avatar
    Reality Check July 20, 2015 at 10:28 am #

    McCain was in good company. So did 100% of the active duty military. That is if you call not supporting a criminal turning your back on him. Also, he is no longer Lt. COL Terry Lakin. It is just Terry Lakin. He does not get to use the rank designation.

    john: MCcain also turned his back on Lt. Col. Terry Lakin.

  81. avatar
    RanTalbott July 20, 2015 at 10:33 am #

    john: It will be great to see Trump take apart each candidate piece by piece.

    Sure it will: for Democrats, and perhaps for those of us who mourn what the GOP has become. It’ll be a huge embarrassment to the Republicans, that will harm them in 2016, but may knock some sense into them.

    Trump will almost certainly blunder through the debate with the same substance-free personal attacks and vague bumper-sticker “ideas” he’s been spouting for years. And get hammered for them. Unfortunately, probably not as thoroughly as he deserves, because the rest of the GOP can’t really afford to alienate the fringe of their base.

    Trump will be shown up as the arrogant, thoughtless, vindictive jerk he is, unfit to sit in the Oval Office.

    john: As with MCcain, He did call veterans “Crazies” which is just as offensive.

    No, he didn’t: he referred to the lunatic wing of the GOP as “crazies”. Who proved their lunacy by trying to twist what he said.

    john: MCcain also turned his back on Lt. Col. Terry Lakin.

    No, Lakin (who forfeited his right to be called by his former rank) turned his back on McCain, and on the rest of us.

  82. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 20, 2015 at 10:40 am #

    john: As with MCcain, He did call veterans “Crazies” which is just as offensive. MCcain also turned his back on Lt. Col. Terry Lakin.

    Where did McCain call veterans “Crazies”? Everyone with a brain turned their back on Lakin. He was stripped of that title and has no right to be called a Lt. Col any longer.

  83. avatar
    The Magic M July 20, 2015 at 10:44 am #

    RanTalbott: Trump will almost certainly blunder through the debate with the same substance-free personal attacks and vague bumper-sticker “ideas” he’s been spouting for years. And get hammered for them.

    Which will only convince his 20% base of crazy followers that he’s telling the truth and is being “silenced” by the “establishment”.
    No matter how this plays out, the GOP loses. Either they nominate Trump who has no chance with independents and moderate conservatives, or they nominate someone else in which case 20% of their electorate turns their back on them.
    If pushing Trump was any strategy to make Jeb Bush appear the sane choice, it has seriously backfired.

  84. avatar
    Lupin July 20, 2015 at 10:49 am #

    john: MCcain also turned his back on Lt. Col. Terry Lakin.

    And rightly so he did, as Lakin was either a deserter or a traitor, depending on semantics.

    That you approve of his behavior is not surprising, and only show your deep disloyalty to your country.

    To his credit McCain has never sought the label “hero.”

  85. avatar
    The Magic M July 20, 2015 at 10:50 am #

    john: Assuming they don’t “Invent” some other reason to keep him out, Trump is in.

    Who’s to say?
    In Germany, we have a TV debate of the bigger parties’ leaders right after the voting booths close (TV debates between candidates are very rare).
    This used to include all parties elected to the respective state parliament until an extremist right-wing party won some seats, then the rules were changed to only include parties sitting in federal parliament.
    When the Liberal Party (FDP) didn’t win any seats in federal parliament for the first time ever, the rules were changed again to include any party with any seat in any state parliament (said extremist right-wing party had already lost its seats by then).
    In other words, the rules were changed several times to guarantee an outcome preferred by the media.

  86. avatar
    Joey July 20, 2015 at 12:38 pm #

    A winner of the Medal of Honor Colonel Gordon Ray “Bird Dog” Roberts testified against Terry Lakin at his court-martial. Colonel Roberts was Lakin’s commanding officer.

    Three days after Roberts graduated from high school, he enlisted in the United States Army in May 1968. He went through training at Fort Benning, Georgia, and then attended infantry school. Roberts was placed in Company B, 1st Battalion, 506th Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, and deployed to the Republic of Vietnam in April 1969.

    By 11 July 1969, Roberts had already distinguished himself, being awarded both the Silver Star and the Bronze Star. On that day, Roberts single-handedly wiped out three machine gun nests, saving the lives of over 20 fellow soldiers. Roberts spent 14 months in Vietnam until he returned to the United States in June 1970.

    In 1971, he was awarded the Medal of Honor by President Richard M. Nixon for his actions on 11 July 1969. Roberts was the youngest living Medal of Honor recipient and the only one still on active duty until 2010, when Army Staff Sergeant Salvatore Giunta was awarded the medal by President Barack H. Obama.

  87. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 20, 2015 at 1:03 pm #

    Kate: Can I ask how old you are, John? You come across as a young kid without knowledge of the real world, that’s why I ask. It seems to me you could easily be of an age to still qualify for military service. Did you volunteer to serve your country after 9/11 or are you an armchair patriot?

    Sadly he’s near his 40s and should know better.

  88. avatar
    Kate July 20, 2015 at 1:24 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Still in Germany. If it weren’t for my job which I love, I’d move over in an instant. 😉

    From what my father tells me, higher ranks (as he was) were treated better than lower ones (which is kinda ironic since it’s the higher ranks making the decisions and sending people off to kill other people).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_prisoner-of-war_camps_in_Canada

    Would have to ask my father where exactly he was.
    But since he never fully rejected Nazi ideology, I’m usually happy if he does *not* talk about the war.

    My father passed away ten years ago. When it came to talking about WWII, he could go on for hours. My kids were interested but they knew if they asked Grandpop a question, they better be prepared to listen for awhile. It was really sad for me to realize that my father suffered from PTSD after the war. Of course, it was probably widespread but men didn’t talk about their feelings at the time. My Mom said that he came home a different person. Unfortunately, the war impacted his life in so many different ways for years. So many men were horribly changed by what they experienced but it just wasn’t a time where men could express their feelings. Thankfully, things have changed for today’s veterans.

    ==============================================================

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Sadly he’s near his 40s and should know better.

    Thanks, Ken. I was guessing mid-20’s but only because of the timing of the election. He comes across as a young kid, especially with his idolization of Trump. Wonder why this alleged patriot didn’t bother to serve his country?

  89. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile July 20, 2015 at 1:29 pm #

    John just called out. Expect a non sequitur then weeks of silence from the little coward.

  90. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 20, 2015 at 1:58 pm #

    Kate: Thanks, Ken. I was guessing mid-20’s but only because of the timing of the election. He comes across as a young kid, especially with his idolization of Trump. Wonder why this alleged patriot didn’t bother to serve his country?

    Probably profound mental illness

  91. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 20, 2015 at 2:55 pm #

    I don’t always read Huffpo, but they ran a good bit on what Trump was doing, while McCain was fighting for his life and sanity as a POW. Trump, for all his bluster, is a dandified little pussy. I wasn’t a fan of McCain as a presidential candidate, but the man survived crap no one should have endured!

  92. avatar
    ellen July 20, 2015 at 3:01 pm #

    John said: ” I don’t think they [people who got captured] really are War Heros.”

    Paul Revere got captured. Yes, the British let him go, but he still got captured.

  93. avatar
    donna July 20, 2015 at 3:47 pm #

    WAPO: What Donald Trump was up to while John McCain was a prisoner of war

    “When I graduated from college, I had a net worth of perhaps $200,000,” he said in his 1987 autobiography “Trump: The Art of the Deal,” written with Tony Schwartz. (That’s about $1.4 million in 2015 dollars.) “I had my eye on Manhattan.”

    More than 8,000 miles away, John McCain sat in a tiny, squalid North Vietnamese prison cell. The Navy pilot’s body was broken from a plane crash, starvation, botched operations and months of torture.

    As Trump was preparing to take Manhattan, McCain was trying to relearn how to walk.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/20/what-donald-trump-was-up-to-while-john-mccain-was-suffering-as-a-prisoner-of-war/

  94. avatar
    bgansel9 July 20, 2015 at 4:47 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): But since he never fully rejected Nazi ideology, I’m usually happy if he does *not* talk about the war.

    Hey Magic M:

    Out of curiosity, I have a question. I lived in Nuremberg for a while back in the early-mid 1980’s My now deceased ex was stationed at Merrell Barracks, which used to be the barracks for German soldiers closest to Soldier’s Field in Nuremberg (the barracks was about one to two miles away from Soldier’s Field – where Hitler used to hold the Nazi Party Rallies). When I lived there, I used to go up to Merrell Barracks on an almost daily basis and as we would walk the the street right outside of the barracks, I’d see Germans riding by on bicycles giving Hitler salutes quite often. Was that normal? I was always led to believe it was only a small crazy subset of the German population.

    This page has pictures and info about the building that became Merrell Barracks: http://www.reichsparteitagsgelaende.de/englisch/ss_kaserne.htm

  95. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 20, 2015 at 4:57 pm #

    ellen:
    John said: ” I don’t think they [people who got captured] really are War Heros.”

    Paul Revere got captured. Yes, the British let him go, but he still got captured.

    George Washington was captured when he was fighting for the british. Obviously not a hero according to John

  96. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 20, 2015 at 5:00 pm #

    Andrew Jackson was a 13 year old soldier when he was captured by the British. Also not a war hero according to John

  97. avatar
    bgansel9 July 20, 2015 at 5:09 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: John said: ” I don’t think they [people who got captured] really are War Heros.”

    I think John’s brain got captured long ago.

  98. avatar
    RanTalbott July 20, 2015 at 6:00 pm #

    The Magic M: Which will only convince his 20% base of crazy followers that he’s telling the truth and is being “silenced” by the “establishment”.

    Yup. But I think you’re wrong about the size of that base.

    I think much, probably most, of Trump’s “support” is a mix of greater name recognition (often cited by the pundits in their “Don’t make too much of this” columns) and frustration with the way “establishment” politicians are not addressing the real and perceived problems. People see the malfunctioning of the system, and are looking for someone/something that might make it “work”. They’re not real sure about who/what that is, but Trump says, with great and utterly unwarranted confidence, that he is/has it.

    As he gets more scrutiny, and more challenges from opponents to get specific, that part of his support will disappear, just as it did for Bachmann, Cain, and other recent demagogues.

    That’s when we’ll find out how big the “crazies” segment is, and I think it’ll be under 10%, and maybe even as low as 5%.

  99. avatar
    bgansel9 July 20, 2015 at 7:05 pm #

    RanTalbott: I think much, probably most, of Trump’s “support” is a mix of greater name recognition (often cited by the pundits in their “Don’t make too much of this” columns) and frustration with the way “establishment” politicians are not addressing the real and perceived problems.

    As a person who has been monitoring Free Republic for more than a decade, I don’t have to guess at who Trump’s base is, I can read their comments of support. The Tea Party is Trump’s base.

  100. avatar
    MN-Skeptic July 20, 2015 at 7:25 pm #

    Bob: I doubt that Fox/RNC will allow Trump near the debate.

    Trump is ratings gold. Unless he’s disqualified for not submitting his balance sheet or drops out before the debates, Trump will participate and Fox News will play that up as much as they can. It will bring viewers to the debate and to the follow up news programs.

  101. avatar
    MN-Skeptic July 20, 2015 at 7:34 pm #

    Re German POWs – my sister’s father-in-law was a German soldier who ended up in an American POW camp in somewhere like Kansas. The only story she mentioned to me was the fact that Max thought it was awful when they served them corn on the cob. In Germany, that was pig food!

  102. avatar
    bgansel9 July 20, 2015 at 8:45 pm #

    Although apparently Trump has recently said something that many in this Tea Party base are upset at now. He called the eucharist/communion meal “my little wine and my little cracker”. LOL

    http://www.redstate.com/2015/07/19/donald-trumps-big-mistake-wasnt-his-statement-on-john-mccain/

    Several Freepers are very upset: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3314405/posts

  103. avatar
    Rickey July 20, 2015 at 11:40 pm #

    Kate:

    Can I ask how old you are, John?You come across as a young kid without knowledge of the real world, that’s why I ask.It seems to me you could easily be of an age to still qualify for military service.Did you volunteer to serve your country after 9/11 or are you an armchair patriot?

    John was 24 years old on 9/11. The military would have gladly accepted him if he had enlisted, but apparently he had other priorities.

  104. avatar
    Dave B. July 21, 2015 at 12:29 am #

    They picked this up over at the International Skeptics forum:

    http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10775181

    Good one from JayUtah:
    “There was another missile from the USS Grassy Knoll, fired by McCain’s accomplice. McCain was just the patsy.”

    Yoda:
    Birdboy supports Trump

    ★FALCON★ 142p · 19 minutes ago

    Over the next few days you are going to hear the Elite Establishment in the Uniparty attempt to tear down Trump over his remarks about John McCain – personally, I don’t really care for Trump, but let’s set the record straight.

    John McCain’s father had a grudge with James Forrestal. Yes, the same person who had a ship named after him. In my opinion, McCain attempted to destroy the USS Forrestal in an act of revenge. How the hell he fired a missile while still on the flight deck is one of the greatest mysteries of the Vietnam war. Almost sunk the ship – and then when the firefighters arrived on deck – McCain ran – he jumped from the cockpit and that’s why you see pictures of him on crutches. He says he strained his ankle. Some war hero. Almost sunk his own ship – and gets a purple heart for twisting his own ankle after jumping and running away. The fire blazed for over 12 hours and McCain never once lifted a finger to help extinguish it. Burnt through the flight deck and asphalt down to concrete.

    James Forrestal was an original member of Majestic12. And yes, another of those crazy conspiracy theories that has been proven to be true. Forrestal was tossed out of a window at a Naval Hospital and guess what – he discovered he couldn’t fly. He didn’t have wings.

    John McCain, while in captivity at the Hanoi Hilton, delivered 32 tape recorded messages to our own troops in an attempt to derail our involvement in the fight against communism. John McCain also ratted out troop positions and got hundreds, if not thousands, of troops killed. In other words, he’s a traitor, not a hero, unless you consider Bergdahl a hero, and in that case, you’re a communist.

  105. avatar
    Keith July 21, 2015 at 2:48 am #

    Kate: My father passed away ten years ago. When it came to talking about WWII, he could go on for hours.

    My Father-in-law, Doug, passed away 10 years ago too. He would not talk about the war.

    He was a communications officer in Darwin and got bombed a fair bit. We introduced him to another friend, Vince, who was also in communications and who also spent the war in Darwin after being one of the last people evacuated from some little island near Bouganville.

    Both of them were so reticent to talk about their experiences that they couldn’t even agree where the others base was located, what street some mutually familiar pub was on, nothing.

    Both guys had exactly one war story.

    Doug’s story was about getting stranded halfway between Adelaide and Alice Springs when the train got bogged, they had to wait for the tracks to clear and they had nothing but canned peaches to eat for 10 days. Doug’s brother was a pilot and was shot down over the Coral Sea. He managed to get ashore somewhere but was captured and beheaded within an hour. Six months later they found his watch on a captured Japanese soldier and thus found out his fate. That is, I think, what turned off Doug’s willingness to talk about the war – can’t say I blame him.

    Vince’s story was about having to draw cards to see which of the three comms operators would stick around to watch the Japanese come ashore and try to hide out in the jungle reporting on their movements. He drew second and it was a 3. He was already shouldering his survival gear when the last guy drew a 2. Vince got the last seat on the last plane out. The guy that drew the 2 was dead within 2 hours of that plane taking off, along with every last man, women, and child of the village that tried to hide him.

  106. avatar
    RanTalbott July 21, 2015 at 3:15 am #

    bgansel9: He called the eucharist/communion meal “my little wine and my little cracker”

    The terminology probably isn’t all that damaging: Presbyterians have a different view of communion from Catholics and some other Protestants. They see the bread and wine/juice as merely symbolic, rather than the actual body and blood of Christ.

    What I think will be a bigger deal is the his “not asking for forgiveness” statement: the belief that “we’re all sinners who need to ask God’s forgiveness” is very strong in nearly all Christian faiths. To people with that belief, not asking for forgiveness is equivalent to denying that you’ve sinned. Catholics (and, doubtless, at least some others) would see that, in itself, as a serious sin of pride.

    It doesn’t take much spinning to use his remarks to portray him as someone who thinks he’s “right with God” because he goes to church and does a little ritual noshing. And the people who really care about that sort of thing have generally shown themselves to be highly susceptible to that kind of propaganda.

  107. avatar
    Kate July 21, 2015 at 3:49 am #

    Keith: My Father-in-law, Doug, passed away 10 years ago too. He would not talk about the war.

    He was a communications officer in Darwin and got bombed a fair bit. We introduced him to another friend, Vince, who was also in communications and who also spent the war in Darwin after being one of the last people evacuated from some little island near Bouganville.

    Both of them were so reticent to talk about their experiences that they couldn’t even agree where the others base was located, what street some mutually familiar pub was on, nothing.

    Both guys had exactly one war story.

    Those experiences are horrific although I think that they both would have been better off if they had been able to talk about them, to vent their anger. It’s really sad that the men of their time were never encouraged to discuss the war. Thankfully, PTSD is a recognized illness today and often responds to medications, a far cry from sweeping it under the rug as they did decades ago, although I don’t know if I’m really being fair in saying that as I don’t know how many men tried to complain about the way they felt or barring that, would have done so if given the opportunity.

  108. avatar
    The Magic M July 21, 2015 at 3:53 am #

    bgansel9: Out of curiosity, I have a question. I lived in Nuremberg for a while back in the early-mid 1980’s My now deceased ex was stationed at Merrell Barracks, which used to be the barracks for German soldiers closest to Soldier’s Field in Nuremberg (the barracks was about one to two miles away from Soldier’s Field – where Hitler used to hold the Nazi Party Rallies). When I lived there, I used to go up to Merrell Barracks on an almost daily basis and as we would walk the the street right outside of the barracks, I’d see Germans riding by on bicycles giving Hitler salutes quite often. Was that normal? I was always led to believe it was only a small crazy subset of the German population.

    It definitely wasn’t normal in the 1980’s, especially given that giving the Hitler salute has been punishable with up to three years in prison in Germany for decades (§86a II StGB, i.e. the Criminal Code).
    While we always had local groups of Neonazis and unteachable older people, it was not something you’d see on a regular basis.
    Is it possible these people were giving the salute towards the barracks, maybe as some kind of cynical protest? (I’m not assuming you were mistaking an innocent greeting gesture with the Hitler salute.)

  109. avatar
    Keith July 21, 2015 at 4:03 am #

    Kate: Those experiences are horrific although I think that they both would have been better off if they had been able to talk about them, to vent their anger.It’s really sad that the men of their time were never encouraged to discuss the war.Thankfully, PTSD is a recognized illness today and often responds to medications, a far cry from sweeping it under the rug as they did decades ago, although I don’t know if I’m really being fair in saying that as I don’t know how many men tried to complain about the way they felt or barring that, would have done so if given the opportunity.

    In my experience, there are two ‘camps’ in Australia. There are those who march in the parade every ANZAC day (or maybe get their grandkids to march for them) wearing their medals and all to honor their fallen comrades and to continue the tradition of remembrance, “Lest We Forget”. And there are those who refuse to go near the parades, thinking its a bunch of jingoistic hoo-hah that simply glorifies war and their part in it.

    But in both groups, the vast majority are very reluctant to talk about their war experiences. This seems to have been true of both WWI and WWII veterans. They just don’t think they have much to add to what has already been said, or they are too disgusted with what they see as lies told by others to bother correcting them, or whatever. I suspect that is true of most wars, but maybe that will change with the drone wars.

    Massive efforts to capture their stories as audio histories before the fighting generations died off altogether has had very limited success. Fortunately, I suppose, you don’t need every history of every participant to get a wide picture of went on.

  110. avatar
    Curious George July 21, 2015 at 7:04 pm #

    John,
    I’m not a big John McCain fan. But, I’d like you to watch a short video from 1967. John McCain was right in the middle of all this, and as I understand it, McCain helped one of his fellow pilots who was on fire. I would challenge you to put yourself in the same situation.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=chuiyXQKw3I

  111. avatar
    bgansel9 July 21, 2015 at 9:17 pm #

    The Magic M: Is it possible these people were giving the salute towards the barracks, maybe as some kind of cynical protest?

    They were definitely saluting towards the barracks. There was a rumor at that time (not very believable) that Hitler was in the basement. LOL I can’t attest to the motive of the people who were saluting. Thanks for your input. I had not realized the salute was illegal.

  112. avatar
    The Magic M July 22, 2015 at 3:55 am #

    bgansel9: I can’t attest to the motive of the people who were saluting

    There was a time where using the Hitler salute was equivalent to mockingly telling someone “I think you’re a Nazi”.
    (Up to not very long ago, there were cases of people being taken to court for distributing anti-Nazi propaganda materials that contained Nazi imagery, like a crossed-out swastika. I think our highest court put an end to that.)

  113. avatar
    Conway July 22, 2015 at 6:09 am #

    Really desperate now, aren’t you?

  114. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 22, 2015 at 8:14 am #

    Not really.

    Conway: Really desperate now, aren’t you?

  115. avatar
    bgansel9 July 22, 2015 at 10:37 am #

    Conway: Really desperate now, aren’t you?

    Desperate for what? To have what we’ve always had (no action in Congress to remove our president, little activity in the media which is only ridicule of those who think the birther story is an actual thing… not a single lawsuit that has proved the conspiracy is real….???) Ummm… which one would make Doc and/or his anti-birther cohorts (like me) desperate? LOL

    Desperate to quote those who actually believed (and those who never believed) in the birther crap? Why? We’ve had those quotes for ages.

    Desperate to make the birthers look like fools? They do that all so well on their own. They don’t need our help.

    What are we supposed to be desperate FOR? I can’t see anything that causes desperation for those who have been proven correct all along. Your post looks more like projection to me.

  116. avatar
    donna July 22, 2015 at 11:45 am #

    more from as the worm turns:

    Donald Trump’s UPenn classmates have ‘no memory of him,’ doubt his claims of being top in class

    “If he tries to claim he was first in the class, he should show his transcript.”

    “If he’s so proud of his accomplishments in school, he should back up his claims. Let’s see the record,”

    “I think he’s a racist blowhard,” Wilen said Tuesday. “And if you have to rely on something you did in the ’60s to validate what you’re saying today, you’ve lost your way.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-classmates-upenn-claim-no-remembers-article-1.2299753

    Trump is listed in the 1968 yearbook only as a student from Jamaica Estates, Queens, who didn’t have a senior photo.

    hmmm Did the Trump we know today REALLY graduate from Wharton?

  117. avatar
    Kate July 22, 2015 at 12:13 pm #

    donna:
    more from as the worm turns:

    Donald Trump’s UPenn classmates have ‘no memory of him,’ doubt his claims of being top in class

    “If he tries to claim he was first in the class, he should show his transcript.”

    “If he’s so proud of his accomplishments in school, he should back up his claims. Let’s see the record,”

    “I think he’s a racist blowhard,” Wilen said Tuesday. “And if you have to rely on something you did in the ’60s to validate what you’re saying today, you’ve lost your way.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-classmates-upenn-claim-no-remembers-article-1.2299753

    Trump is listed in the 1968 yearbook only as a student from Jamaica Estates, Queens, who didn’t have a senior photo.

    hmmm Did the Trump we know today REALLY graduate from Wharton?

    Have pity on the guy, those bone spurs are so painful, to the point where you have to block out the memory of which foot they were in! The Donald probably had to miss a lot of classes due to his recovery from surgery on his bone spur and wasn’t able to dazzle his Wharton classmates with the same brilliance he uses on his followers today. Otherwise, he surely would have been elected as Class President 🙂

  118. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 22, 2015 at 12:31 pm #

    donna: Trump is listed in the 1968 yearbook only as a student from Jamaica Estates, Queens, who didn’t have a senior photo.

    hmmm Did the Trump we know today REALLY graduate from Wharton?

    Are we not sure that Trump’s dad paid to get his name in the yearbook?

  119. avatar
    donna July 22, 2015 at 12:57 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Are we not sure that Trump’s dad paid to get his name in the yearbook?

    Ivanka Trump’s husband is Jared Kushner – how did he get accepted to Harvard?

    In 1998, according to two sources familiar with the gift, [New York real estate magnate Charles Kushner] pledged $2.5 million to Harvard, to be paid in annual installments of $250,000….

    Jared was not in the school’s highest academic track in all courses, and his test scores were well below Ivy League standards. Frisch officials were surprised when he applied to Harvard—and dismayed when he was admitted.

    http://gawker.com/5795893/donald-trump-thinks-his-son-in-law-is-a-lazy-bastard

  120. avatar
    Bob July 22, 2015 at 5:22 pm #

    Trump’s first wife, Ivana, was a Communist:

    http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biographies/ivana-trump/quotes.html;jsessionid=47FF07A426929451F76C65AD793EE269

  121. avatar
    RanTalbott July 22, 2015 at 7:20 pm #

    Bob: Trump’s first wife, Ivana, was a Communist

    Well, technically, that’s not necessarily true: she said was raised in a country where something they called “communism” was imposed on her. She doesn’t say whether she bought into it, herself. And the fact that she fled it suggests she didn’t.

    A better part of that page is the juxtaposition of her saying “Gorgeous hair is the best revenge.” with a picture of her that looks like she’s wearing a conglomeration of The Donald’s discarded toupees.

  122. avatar
    Rickey July 22, 2015 at 8:40 pm #

    RanTalbott: Well, technically, that’s not necessarily true: she said was raised in a country where something they called “communism” was imposed on her. She doesn’t say whether she bought into it, herself. And the fact that she fled it suggests she didn’t.

    A better part of that page is the juxtaposition of her saying “Gorgeous hair is the best revenge.” with a picture of her that looks like she’s wearing a conglomeration of The Donald’s discarded toupees.

    His current wife (#3) is from Slovenia. Her wedding dress reportedly cost $200,000.

  123. avatar
    Rickey July 22, 2015 at 8:47 pm #

    RanTalbott: The terminology probably isn’t all that damaging: Presbyterians have a different view of communion from Catholics and some other Protestants. They see the bread and wine/juice as merely symbolic, rather than the actual body and blood of Christ.

    What I think will be a bigger deal is the his “not asking for forgiveness” statement: the belief that “we’re all sinners who need to ask God’s forgiveness” is very strong in nearly all Christian faiths. To people with that belief, not asking for forgiveness is equivalent to denying that you’ve sinned. Catholics (and, doubtless, at least some others) would see that, in itself, as a serious sin of pride.

    It doesn’t take much spinning to use his remarks to portray him as someone who thinks he’s “right with God” because he goes to church and does a little ritual noshing. And the people who really care about that sort of thing have generally shown themselves to be highly susceptible to that kind of propaganda.

    Also, Trump has been divorced twice and he was having an affair with Marla Maples while he was still married to Ivanka.

    If he were a Democrat the religious right would ripping him for his moral failings.

  124. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 22, 2015 at 8:58 pm #

    Martin Luther and John Calvin never could see eye to eye on this issue.

    RanTalbott: Presbyterians have a different view of communion from Catholics and some other Protestants.

  125. avatar
    Notorial Dissent July 23, 2015 at 3:18 am #

    Let’s also remember that even if you lived in a communist country, party membership was a pretty limited deal, unless you had pull or were somehow a bigshot it wasn’t likely. Party membership was a very small intimate circle when it came right down to it. You voted communist, since they were the only party on the ballot, but that didn’t mean you were a party member or even really supported the party, but you voted if you didn’t want to be noticed, and not being noticed was a survival trait. i have no idea what the political affiliations of the present and former Mrs Trumps are, or that it even really matters, they seem to have fully adapted to our decadent capitalistic world quite well.

  126. avatar
    Bob July 23, 2015 at 7:46 am #

    Actually I was trying parody the Birthers with my accusation of Trump marrying a Communist but I should know already know that they’re impossible to parody.

  127. avatar
    RanTalbott July 23, 2015 at 8:24 am #

    Bob: Actually I was trying parody the Birthers

    Oh. Sorry for taking you literally.

    To imitate a birther, you need to add some loonification: scare quotes, excessive exclamation points, made-up words like “musloid”, and USING ALL CAPS FOR THE MOST RIDICULOUS PARTS.

    It also helps to be low-class and insulting, like calling her a “commie bitch” or “commie c__t”.

    You’re right about the (near-)impossibility of ramping up from “imitation” to “parody”, though. I usually just go for “I wonder what they’ll think when they find out that [insert revelation expressed in their style]”. That way, I don’t have to try to achieve a state of mind that could be dangerous for my blood pressure 😉

  128. avatar
    dunstvangeet July 23, 2015 at 8:24 pm #

    RanTalbott: The terminology probably isn’t all that damaging: Presbyterians have a different view of communion from Catholics and some other Protestants.

    Baptists have the same view. Just as Baptism (which the Baptists are famous for) doesn’t actually save you. That if someone accepts Jesus Christ as their personal lord and savior, they are saved from that moment on. If they get hit by a bus 1 minute later, they are still saved. It doesn’t matter that they were not dunked in water. The Baptism is just a symbol of that personal commitment.

  129. avatar
    Matt July 24, 2015 at 7:54 pm #

    This is my prediction of how the 2016 electoral vote map will look if Trump is the GOP nominee.

    http://electoralmap.net/2012/myPrediction.php?d=0r000000000000000

  130. avatar
    Keith July 25, 2015 at 9:25 am #

    Matt:
    This is my prediction of how the 2016 electoral vote map will look if Trump is the GOP nominee.

    http://electoralmap.net/2012/myPrediction.php?d=0r000000000000000

    Sorry, interesting take, but you give much too little credit to Arizona and much too much to Texas.