Main Menu

The legal significance of Obama’s birth certificate PDF

Computer scientist David Kriesel concludes that using the PDF file of Obama’s birth certificate in court is problematic because the Xerox 7655 does pattern matching to replace parts of the image with similar things from other parts of the image, thereby not creating a 100% true copy. In fact, these machines have been known to replace one character with another!

Birthers, of course, conclude that human forgery is the cause of the quirks in the PDF document rather than an algorithmic process.

This fascinating story of how a corporate giant deals with errors in its software is seasoned with actual images from Obama’s birth certificate (and even a shout out to Reality Check’s blog).

, ,

235 Responses to The legal significance of Obama’s birth certificate PDF

  1. avatar
    Curious George August 25, 2015 at 9:45 am #

    Kriesel points out that to determine if their are errors created by the scanning process, one must be able to compare the PDF scan to the original paper document that was scanned. Absent the original document one cannot prove that the PDF is error free. This creates a problem for Mr. Zullo. How can Mr. Zullo claim that President Obama’s PDF image of his birth certificate is a forgery when he cannot compare the PDF image to the original document that was scanned? Absent the ability to compare the PDF to the original, Mr. Zullo has no way of determining whether his findings represent errors caused by the Xerox scanning process or by a deliberate forgery. Zullo cannot prove Obama’s PDF is a forgery, given Mr. Kriesel’s findings. The errors created in the scanning process have existed since 2006. Mr. Kriesel discovered errors created (character substitution) in the PDF scanning process back in 2013. The President’s birth certificate was scanned and posted as a PDF on the Internet in April of 2011.

    When will Mr. Zullo be issuing refunds?

  2. avatar
    Curious George August 25, 2015 at 10:07 am #

    Also, given the fact that the Hawaii Department of Health issued a certified Verification of Birth to the Arizona Secretary of State in May of 2012, verifying all of the birth information contained on the Obama PDF, Mr. Zullo’s conclusions about the President’s PDF depicted birth certificate are absurd.

    Again, when will Mr. Zullo be issuing refunds?

  3. avatar
    DaveH August 25, 2015 at 11:53 am #

    That was an interesting video. Thanks for posting it.

    As far as the hoopla around the scanned image of Obama’s BC, I never paid much attention to what birthers said. As Curious George pointed out, unless you have the original that the scan was created from, you can’t prove it is a forgery.

    For birthers to consider an image posted on the internet a legal document was absurd. If they thought it was a legal document then they would also believe that a scanned image of a one hundred dollar bill was also a legitimate document that they could print out and then spend.

    Nothing would matter to a birther anyway. You could provide them with the actual document and they would still claim it is a forgery. When they refuse to even look at the website of the Hawaii Department of Health with their information on the birth certificate and links directly to the scanned image on the White House website, there’s nothing that can be done to satisfy them. They are idiots.

  4. avatar
    donna August 25, 2015 at 12:02 pm #

    Kriesel’s article: Xerox scanners/photocopiers randomly alter numbers in scanned documents

    http://www.dkriesel.com/en/blog/2013/0802_xerox-workcentres_are_switching_written_numbers_when_scanning

  5. avatar
    Reality Check August 25, 2015 at 12:58 pm #

    I corresponded with Mr. Kriesel after his blog post on the JBIG2 character duplication errors came out. He was a nice fellow and wanted to know if he could use some of my scanned PDF’s in his presentations. I had not problem.

    He tried to get his contact at Xerox to comment on the LFBC PDF but they were not interested in getting involved in Birther idiocy.

  6. avatar
    Rickey August 25, 2015 at 6:27 pm #

    DaveH:

    For birthers to consider an image posted on the internet a legal document was absurd. If they thought it was a legal document then they would also believe that a scanned image of a one hundred dollar bill was also a legitimate document that they could print out and then spend.

    That reminds me of when birther John used to claim that Obama’s COLB wasn’t valid because it had been altered when the certificate number was redacted.

    Of course, the COLB was not altered, it was only the image of the COLB which was altered. The original, with the certificate number intact, was photographed by the folks at factcheck.org.

  7. avatar
    alg August 25, 2015 at 9:29 pm #

    Using Zullo’s criteria, every PDF ever made is a forgery.

  8. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 26, 2015 at 12:14 am #

    Just for my own curiosity, does the JBIG2 character duplication thingy happen on other types of machines or is it strictly a Xerox issue. I got to thinking, and over my career using copiers, I’m not sure we ever had a Xerox copier, ever, and I can’t remember ever actually using one.

  9. avatar
    y_p_w August 26, 2015 at 12:50 am #

    Notorial Dissent:
    Just for my own curiosity, does the JBIG2 character duplication thingy happen on other types of machines or is it strictly a Xerox issue. I got to thinking, and over my career using copiers, I’m not sure we ever had a Xerox copier, ever, and I can’t remember ever actually using one.

    Really? They’ve had over 55 years of making plain paper copiers commercially. And in that long history, most of that was the old fashioned exposure of the drum to a direct reflection of the image. I remember using several, and every copy required a single pass.

    There are a lot of companies that make these multifunction machines these days, but Xerox machines are still a pretty big presence. Here’s Canon touting that they’re #1, but Xerox is still top 5 in both color and B&W copiers.

    However, JBIG2 is an industry standard for generating PDF and FAX transmissions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JBIG2

    However, I don’t think that the copier function needs to use anything like this. These machines do a little of everything these days, so it’s the scanner portion that would attempt to apply compression since the file is likely to be stored, emailed, or archived. If you’re going to send it by FAX, then file size is going to affect how fast it gets transmitted. If you’re making a copy, it doesn’t really matter how big the image file is, since it’s only going to be kept long enough to make the copy.

  10. avatar
    Reality Check August 26, 2015 at 6:58 am #

    I think the character duplication/substitution might be a PDF related issue. The first thing a multifunction machine like these does is scan to make an uncompressed full bit mapped image of the document. If it is just a copy there is no need to compress anything. It just reproduces that image on a printed piece of paper. The compression of the huge bit mapped file is used when a document is scanned and then compressed to a PDF to be saved on a sever or emailed to a user.

  11. avatar
    Keith August 26, 2015 at 7:04 am #

    Reality Check: If it is just a copy there is no need to compress anything.

    That is a very important distinction to make, and IMHO, right up there with ‘my scanner ran out of toner’ in the thoughtless mistake stakes.

  12. avatar
    PAUL EDWARD IREY August 26, 2015 at 7:36 am #

    With this story … Dr. Con tries to say that all the problems with the PDF allow him to conclude that any findings of forgery are because of automatic … unavoidable changes made to the document.
    So he takes my finding of an extra row of hashmark art at the right side and says it was created by this PDF conversion problem.
    So we are to conclude that the PDF process shortened the width of the Obama birth certificate and conveniently added an extra row of artwork by error that just happened to make the document exactly 8.5″ wide … that just happens to be necessary because that is the exact width of the printed security paper.
    The huge problem with that is that since the security paper was a pre-printed sheet that the original document was allegedy printed to (it was not) how can the security paper be altered by the PDF copying process.?
    What Judy Corley was supposed to deliver to the White House was the birth certificate printed on this paper and then Savanna Guthrie took a pic of the document that shows the extra row. So how did her posted pic get altered by a Zerox copy machine?
    I suggest that mistakes like Dr. Con made when he claimed to me that the extra row on the hashmark background was caused by the Zerox is defending a felony with a lie that he surely knows can not be true … yet he posted it anyway.
    This is direct evidence of lying to support a crime and that’s what his website is all about. He and evey one of his gang of fools on this site may very well be guilty of accesories to treason. This is why not one person posting here dares to use his own real name. But as we know … Dr. Con is Kevin Davidson and I believe Kevin Davidson has proven he is guilty of accesory to treason many times. For all we know … all of the postings are one person … Kevin Davidson.
    As I already said … I am the only person … except for other birthers … posting my real name here.
    Kevin …are you willing to come along with me to the FBI and show us that you are not afraid to display your felony protecting posture directly to law enforcement?
    If Trump wins … the FBI will remember you and most likely prosecute you … when they get a new director appointed by President Trump.
    PAUL EDWARD IREY

  13. avatar
    Sef August 26, 2015 at 8:03 am #

    y_p_w: Really? They’ve had over 55 years of making plain paper copiers commercially. And in that long history, most of that was the old fashioned exposure of the drum to a direct reflection of the image. I remember using several, and every copy required a single pass.

    What? You never used a Model D? That’s what we used at Xerox U.

  14. avatar
    Curious George August 26, 2015 at 9:25 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY
    August 26, 2015

    “With this story … Dr. Con tries to say that all the problems with the PDF allow him to conclude that any findings of forgery are because of automatic … unavoidable changes made to the document.
    So he takes my finding of an extra row of hashmark art at the right side and says it was created by this PDF conversion problem.
    So we are to conclude that the PDF process shortened the width of the Obama birth certificate and conveniently added an extra row of artwork by error that just happened to make the document exactly 8.5″ wide … that just happens to be necessary because that is the exact width of the printed security paper.”

    Without the actual hard copy of the original scanned document to use for comparison, one would never know what errors were created in the conversion to PDF process. Watch David Kriesel’s video and learn from a computer scientist who discovered the errors that can be made in the conversion to PDF process. David Kriesel is the one who found the character substitution issue that is associated with pattern matching technology and is consulting with Xerox without remuneration. Unless you can come up with the original document that was scanned, you’re conclusions are just speculation. Watch the video.

    By the way, are you a computer scientist?

  15. avatar
    gorefan August 26, 2015 at 9:33 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    With this story …

    the FBI will remember you and most likely prosecute you …
    PAUL EDWARD IREY

    No they will not prosecute him no matter who is president.

    I have it on very good authority that the FBI have already been shown the EdgeErase feature of the Xerox.

  16. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 26, 2015 at 9:57 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: the FBI will remember you and most likely prosecute you … when they get a new director appointed by President Trump.

    Are they going to use Pyramid Power to track Doc down?

  17. avatar
    Curious George August 26, 2015 at 10:15 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY

    “Kevin …are you willing to come along with me to the FBI and show us that you are not afraid to display your felony protecting posture directly to law enforcement?”

    I also have it on good authority that the FEDs are aware of the PDF conversion issue as related to character substitution associated with pattern matching technology. The PDF errors created by this technology and unverifiable without the actual scanned document is the Armageddon moment for Birther’s and Shurf Joe’s phony investigation findings.

    Please, may we have a moment of silence?

  18. avatar
    Lupin August 26, 2015 at 10:21 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: As I already said … I am the only person … except for other birthers … posting my real name here.

    That is SO not true. I have posted my real name here plenty of times, including links to my professional site and my wikipedia page.

    Also it us utterly moronic to speak, as you do, of “direct evidence of lying to support a crime”. Ultimately the authenticity of the President;’s birth certificate was attested by the issuing authority itself, the State of Hawaii, multiple times.

    Therefore there is NO crime, and when you accuse someone of being a criminal, you are dangerously flirting with libel.

    Finally as far as Trump ever becoming president, I note with great interest that it is the combined forces of the Republican Party who are presently scheming to destroy his candidacy:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/state-gop-leaders-plot-to-tie-donald-trumps-hands-121696.html?hp=l3_4

    As far as i know, the democrats are perfectly content to let Trump compete fairly against their own nominee.

    If you want to be useful, instead of being a lying libelous a**hole (as you are here), go and campaign for Trump against the other GOP sock puppets — you may start with your fellow birthers at the BIRTHER REPORT site which is infested with anti-Trump posters.

    Good luck!

  19. avatar
    Pete August 26, 2015 at 10:58 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: With this story … Dr. Con tries to say that all the problems with the PDF allow him to conclude that any findings of forgery are because of automatic … unavoidable changes made to the document.

    Hey! Paul Irey is back! The expert to beat all experts!

    By the way, Paul, “Xerox” is spelled “Xerox.” Not “Zerox.”

    If you don’t correct your spelling on that, people who visit this blog might easily conclude that instead of being a big expert as you claim, your expertise is solely in your mind, and you don’t have a single d*mn clue what you’re talking about.

    I mean, really. If someone presenting himself as a technological expert can’t even spell the word “Xerox” correctly, that’s a pretty good indication that he doesn’t know a freaking d*mn thing, isn’t it?

    So be careful. There could be a danger here that the three people who still listen to your erroneous opinions might tune out.

    On the other hand, I guess there’s not much danger of that, since those three people don’t read anything except Birther Report.

  20. avatar
    John Reilly August 26, 2015 at 12:31 pm #

    Pete: By the way, Paul, “Xerox” is spelled “Xerox.” Not “Zerox.”

    Yet another example of the character substitution error.

  21. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund August 26, 2015 at 12:42 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    So he takes my finding of an extra row of hashmark art at the right side and says it was created by this PDF conversion problem.

    No, he doesn’t. Your alleged finding is fundamentally flawed, because it requires that all basketweave security paper ever made is the same scale as the modern brand you used. When I pointed out that there is at least one brand that has a different scale, your finding was refuted. As a bonus, the brand I picked is the right scale for the Guthrie photo.

    The huge problem with that is that since the security paper was a pre-printed sheet that the original document was allegedy printed to (it was not) how can the security paper be altered by the PDF copying process.?

    There is no problem, since I have proven that there is at least one brand of pre-printed security paper that doesn’t rrequire an extra row to be added to make the Guthrie photo exactly 8.5 inches wide. No alteration of the PDF required.

    And yes it was copied onto pre-printed security paper. That is the whole point of security paper! Do you seriously believe that all certified copies were made at the same time as the original record? Did they store them in a vault somewhere? How many did they make? What happens if someone needs more than they originally created?

    I have certified copies of my birth certificate that were ordered when I was born, when I was 6, and a bunch when I went to college. The basketweave pattern is different for the diffferent eras, as is the security paper – and the basketweave pattern is definitely part of the security paper.

    This is direct evidence of lying to support a crime and that’s what his website is all about.He and evey one of his gang of fools on this site may very well be guilty of accesories to treason.This is why not one person posting here dares to use his own real name.

    I post under my real name, which is unique in the United States. So yet another thing you’re wrong about.

  22. avatar
    roadburner August 26, 2015 at 12:48 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:

    a bunch of senseless whiffle……

    oh paul, paul, paul!

    after all this time, you still cannot get your head around the simple concept that is THE IMAGE OF THE BC ON THE WH WEBSITE IS JUST THAT- AN IMAGE – and it makes not one jot of difference if you can make it turn pink and dance a conga!

    all you are doing is flogging a long dead horse, and showing monumental stupidity.

    i realise you have a lot invested in this subject (but not any common sense invested it seems), but what you need to understand is that in just over a year your president leaves office. even if the LFBC was a forgery, your president cannot be arrested, and even if he was after his term was finished, he’ll still be remembered as the 44th president of the united states regardless of the outcome.

    you however will be remembered as a fool.

  23. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 26, 2015 at 12:55 pm #

    I see that Irey has now taken his delusions, of competency to start with, to whole new levels of the absurd. He is even becoming a bad caricature of himself, if that is even further possible. Paul get this through your thick skull, once and for all, a copy is a copy is a copy, and you are and have been arguing and making an even bigger fool of yourself over a copy of a copy of a copy, and one that was admittedly manipulated multiple times in the process. You are a fool, and not even an entertaining fool.

    You are further a fool, because the State of Hawaii has already, multiple times, verified that there is a record, that the information published matches what they have on file and have verified that they have it on file, and that they have the final say so. You are a fool because you manufacture a controversy where there is none, based soley on your prejudices and gross ignorance of just about everything, you are not the lone voice of reason shouting against the wind, you are the baying lunatic howling at the moon.

  24. avatar
    Joey August 26, 2015 at 1:19 pm #

    I don’t think Mr. Irey is aware of the Federal Rules of Evidence (FRE 902 & 1005) which state that a copy of a public record is admissible if it is signed, sealed or testified to being correct by someone who has compared it to the original. The Hawaii state Registrar, Alvin T. Onaka has signed, Sealed and issued Certified Letters of Verification for Barack Obama’s Certficate of Live Birth.
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_902
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_1005

    U.S. District Court Judge for the Southern District of Mississippi, Henry T. Wingate (a Reagan appointee) received a copy of the Obama Certificate of Live Birth submitted by defense attorneys and a Certified Letter of Verification for it from Dr. Onaka in Orly Taitz’s Mississippi eligibility challenge. Judge Wingate ruled for President Obama and the Mississippi Democratic Party in that lawsuit.
    https://www.scribd.com/book/260541637

  25. avatar
    bob August 26, 2015 at 1:38 pm #

    So Irey (or is it PAUL-EDWARD: IREY?) thinks if Doc doesn’t accept the double-dog dare to pester the FBI then that means Doc is guilty … of something.

    Whereas the rest of the United States will thank Doc for not wasting the FBI’s time, so it can focus on catching actual criminals.

    And, for Irey: pseudonyms are a reasonable precaution when dealing with birthers, who boast unstable felons in their ranks: Walter Fitzpatrick, Darren Huff, and Cody Judy, to name a few.

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2015 at 1:47 pm #

    I did not say, nor did I try to say that all artifacts that puzzle birthers in the PDF are the result of character substitution.

    As for the trip to the FBI, I will agree under two conditions. One is that the FBI office be in Spartanburg, South Carolina; and the other is that I get to wear a T-Shirt that says “I’m not with stupid.” (See: sample).

    You’re just lucky that being stupid is not a crime.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    With this story … Dr. Con tries to say that all the problems with the PDF allow him to conclude that any findings of forgery are because of automatic … unavoidable changes made to the document….
    Kevin …are you willing to come along with me to the FBI and show us that you are not afraid to display your felony protecting posture directly to law enforcement?

  27. avatar
    DaveH August 26, 2015 at 2:17 pm #

    ROFLMAOF!!!!!

    Good one, Doc!

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I did not say, nor did I try to say that all artifacts that puzzle birthers in the PDF are the result of character substitution.

    As for the trip to the FBI, I will agree under two conditions. One is that the FBI office be in Spartanburg, South Carolina; and the other is that I get to wear a T-Shirt that says “I’m not with stupid.” (See:sample).

  28. avatar
    RanTalbott August 26, 2015 at 2:36 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: As I already said … I am the only person … except for other birthers … posting my real name here.

    Wrong.

    You might as well give up on your dreams of bringing down Obama with your testimony and “evidence”: you’ve been caught pulling assumptions out of your ass, and using bad reasoning to reach loony conclusions, so many times that the only hearing you’ll ever be allowed to testify at will be brought to you by the number 5150 and the letters “N”, “U”, “T” and “S”.

  29. avatar
    Jim August 26, 2015 at 2:42 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: “If Trump wins … the FBI will remember you and most likely prosecute you … when they get a new director appointed by President Trump.”

    Ummmmm, Paul, why are you bothering Doc? Trump has already stated he’s sent his investigators to Hawaii and you won’t believe what they’ve found. Shouldn’t you be bothering Trump instead to release his evidence, or are you afraid it will be the same as all the other evidence you’ve tried…worthless.

    BTW Paul, while you’re at it you might also check out the 3 experts that WND hired…they say the President’s BC online is not a forgery. I think you’ll find they’re more believable than a used-copier salesman who claims that computer standards are a sign of forgery. (BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I STILL can’t believe you fell for that one!!!) Good luck, you’ll need it.

  30. avatar
    y_p_w August 26, 2015 at 2:46 pm #

    Reality Check: If it is just a copy there is no need to compress anything. It just reproduces that image on a printed piece of paper. The compression of the huge bit mapped file is used when a document is scanned and then compressed to a PDF to be saved on a sever or emailed to a user.

    I can’t say for certain, but it could be possible to apply a certain amount of compression even for copies. Some copy jobs can be huge with multiple copies, although that can be handled with more and more onboard memory. I was reading that for JBIG2 there are several levels of compression from lossless (can expand to a perfect bitmap) to lossy. It might make sense to some degree – especially if the copy job is just queued up while the machine is busy printing out something else. I’ve spent (or wasted) time waiting for a copier to finish a job while someone else was printing 1000 pages of some specification.

    However, if you’re making copies, of course the goal will probably be to have the highest quality possible, but there could still be some file size compression. However, when converting to another form, file size often becomes an issue such that a more aggressive lossy compression or interpolation is often considered acceptable.

  31. avatar
    Georgetown JD August 26, 2015 at 3:12 pm #

    I would be very interested in reading the criminal statute that Irey believes Doc will be prosecuted under. So, Paul: Cough up the citation.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2015 at 3:20 pm #

    Perhaps after Mr. Irey learns that he cannot post on the blog by replying to the comment subscription emails, we might hear his reply. Attempts to post via reply just result in emails to me, this being the latest:

    I am requesting an interview with the FBI to receive my evidence. Your stupid slander and hopeless replys do not change a thing. The Obama birth certificate is a forgery regardless of if I miss-spell a word or not. Don’t feed me that bullshit that there is a paper with an extra row of hashmark art in existance and Obama is the only one who got it … and meanwhile his bc matches the forgers width because she copied all her material on a defective copier.

    The FBI should be very interested in the felony Zulo holds from view … the forgers own document that matches the Obama bc in distortion and the bent to the right left vertical rule because slipping rollers never slip evenly. The tie ins are multiple and I don’t want e-mails from idiots that won’t use their real names.

    I just want to know if your brave leader wants to accompany me to defend. He won’t and neither will any of the rest of you because the FBI will want to see some ID.

    Busy … gotta go.

    Paul E. Irey

    Hey, I have an ID. I have a driver’s license and a passport. I have a birth certificate too, but that’s not an ID.

    Georgetown JD: I would be very interested in reading the criminal statute that Irey believes Doc will be prosecuted under.

  33. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2015 at 3:21 pm #

    Is that the Simpson, or something else?

    W. Kevin Vicklund: There is no problem, since I have proven that there is at least one brand of pre-printed security paper that doesn’t rrequire an extra row to be added to make the Guthrie photo exactly 8.5 inches wide. No alteration of the PDF required.

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2015 at 3:39 pm #

    OK, I shouldn’t have said that. Calling Irey stupid is not an argument. Perhaps the t-shirt should just have some disclaimer like “My presence here is in no way an endorsement of the views of the people I am with.”

    Dr. Conspiracy: “I’m not with stupid.”

  35. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2015 at 3:44 pm #

    I actually did report a crime to the FBI once. They had an office in the same building where I worked, and I got one of those 419 scam letters, only this was before email (it came by fax), and it was before I had ever heard of advance fee fraud. I just knew it had to be a scam. So I carried the fax down to the FBI office and they politely took it. That’s the end of the story.

    I don’t doubt Mr. Irey’s sincerity, but the FBI is not interested in birth certificate conspiracy theories. Only someone recently fallen off the turnip truck doesn’t already know about the birther views on the birth certificate. This is very old news. Mr. Irey apparently does not appreciate the fact that he’s not qualified as an expert on anything of interest in this story. From the point of view of the FBI (and me) Irey is just another crank among many they deal with every day.

    If Irey wants, at his own expense, to travel to Spartanburg to talk to the FBI, and he knows in advance that they agree to meet him, then I’ll be happy to go along for the purpose of getting a story for the blog: “My trip to the FBI with Paul Irey.” It’d be a great story. The gravity of the situation rests solely in Irey’s imagination. I haven’t the slightest hesitation about dealing with the FBI, who by the way have not contacted me on any matter.

    Paul Irey: I just want to know if your brave leader wants to accompany me to defend. He won’t and neither will any of the rest of you because the FBI will want to see some ID.

  36. avatar
    Joey August 26, 2015 at 3:50 pm #

    Paul Irey actually believes that there is a federal crime called “Accessory to Treason!”
    James Comey, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation was nominated to his position by the 44th President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama, II. Mr. Comey is in the second year of a ten year term.

  37. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2015 at 3:58 pm #

    So much for President Trump.

    Joey: Mr. Comey is in the second year of a ten year term.

  38. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund August 26, 2015 at 5:38 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Is that the Simpson, or something else?

    Yep, the Simpson, which you provided and RC confirmed matched the Guthrie photo.

  39. avatar
    Pete August 26, 2015 at 7:20 pm #

    roadburner: you [Paul Irey] however will be remembered as a fool.

    You forgot to add: “But only by a vanishingly small number of people.”

  40. avatar
    Pete August 26, 2015 at 7:24 pm #

    Notorial Dissent: you are not the lone voice of reason shouting against the wind, you are the baying lunatic howling at the moon.

    That about sums it up.

  41. avatar
    Pete August 26, 2015 at 7:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Perhaps after Mr. Irey learns that he cannot post on the blog by replying to the comment subscription emails, we might hear his reply. Attempts to post via reply just result in emails to me, this being the latest:

    What do you know? A technology expert who’s not only too clueless to spell “Xerox” correctly, he’s also too clueless even to know how to reply to comments in a WordPress blog.

    Sheesh.

  42. avatar
    Pete August 26, 2015 at 7:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Mr. Irey apparently does not appreciate the fact that he’s not qualified as an expert on anything of interest in this story.

    And even when you point out his OBVIOUS, totally blatant incompetence, he still trusts in his own judgment.

    It’s very difficult for incompetent people to accept the fact that they’re incompetent, for fairly obvious reasons.

    I’m sure there are areas that Mr. Irey is competent in. Technology is not one of them.

    If it’s any comfort, Paul, everyone has areas they’re incompetent in.

  43. avatar
    Reality Check August 26, 2015 at 8:37 pm #

    How amusingly stupid. Why don’t you go ahead and report me too while you are at it? You and Dougie are deluded morons. Ask Dougie how his criminal complaint worked out. What a pair of idiots.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: I suggest that mistakes like Dr. Con made when he claimed to me that the extra row on the hashmark background was caused by the Zerox is defending a felony with a lie that he surely knows can not be true … yet he posted it anyway.
    This is direct evidence of lying to support a crime and that’s what his website is all about. He and evey one of his gang of fools on this site may very well be guilty of accesories to treason. This is why not one person posting here dares to use his own real name. But as we know … Dr. Con is [Deleted] and I believe [Deleted] has proven he is guilty of accesory [sic] to treason many times. For all we know … all of the postings are one person … [Name deleted].
    As I already said … I am the only person … except for other birthers … posting my real name here.

  44. avatar
    Reality Check August 26, 2015 at 8:50 pm #

    I think Mr. Irey is confusing “Xerox” with “Zerex”. The former is a large manufacturer of office equipment. The latter is apparently his drink of choice.

    Pete: I mean, really. If someone presenting himself as a technological expert can’t even spell the word “Xerox” correctly, that’s a pretty good indication that he doesn’t know a freaking d*mn thing, isn’t it?

  45. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 26, 2015 at 9:03 pm #

    While the tale of the trip to the FBI office with Irey would be if nothing else entertaining and blogworthy, I rather doubt it will ever happen, since once he explains what he wants to unload on them they will most likely politely decline rather than waste any further time on a snipe fest, unless of course they have someone in the doghouse who needs some attitude adjustment.

  46. avatar
    Benji Franklin August 26, 2015 at 9:05 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Kevin …are you willing to come along with me to the FBI and show us that you are not afraid to display your felony protecting posture directly to law enforcement?

    Paul,

    The to-date and future failure of Birthers everywhere to get Obama officially charged, tried, and convicted of criminal document fraud, is elegantly explained by the fact that it is only by the fanciful extra-legal analysis of Birthers that SUCH CRIMES have BEEN COMMITTED.

    Birthers want Obama convicted of laws that THEY THINK should exist (there ought to be a law), like a law to keep a Presidential candidate from showing any member of the voting public, an informationally correct birth record unless, it is an official original seal bearing original copy from the state where they were born. There’s no such law, but Birthers insist Obama needed to send out, say, three hundred million of them at 50 bucks each, for example, to not commit a felony by displaying any other kind of likeness.

    Birthers can’t get ANY official charging authority to charge Obama with a real crime in this area; no real law was broken.

    You’re an important part of an inept plan, Paul!

    Birthers’ odds of getting Obama convicted of breaking laws which are either inapplicable, or exist only in a Birther mind, are about the same as the odds of John Dillinger bluffing his way out of that Crown Point Indiana jail in 1934, by brandishing a toothbrush carved out of soap.

  47. avatar
    PAUL EDWARD IREY August 26, 2015 at 9:24 pm #

    None of you are directly replying to my challenge.

    You just offer insults and that isn’t proof of anything.

    Two brith certificates … the forgers and Obama’s are distorted by way of both being exaclty the same width in reduction … but the height of both is the same as all the other Hawaiin birth certificates of the era.

    Let’s just stick to this one fact and see how you get by it.

    No make that two facts … the second being that the forgers bc is obviously forged because the typed letters all follow a perfectly straight line but the form is slightly curved and how can that be.

    The letters were pasted one by one along a straight line. She paid no attention to the curved horizontal rules on the form.

    I am sure that the original form had letters that followed the form … but they were erased and replaced with the forgers information. By the way her parents were born in Hawaii and so was she … so she has a real bc on file.

    Onaka must know that … but he impressed his perfectly round state of Hawaii seal on a already distorted birth certificate. Tell me how that happened. You people see no problem with that?

    The forgers bc is also squeezed. Why wasn’t the seal squeezed also? I know that none of you will admit the forgers birth certificate is a forgery.

    In fact you will refuse to offer any thing at all on the authenticity of her own bc and I find that strange and dishonest.

    Everyone should decide … is it or is it not a forgery?

    W. Kevin Vicklund … Hawaii has always used this one secrutiy paper design. If you know of another bc background … produce it. Scan it and post it somewhere for us all to see. Do you expect me to find it for myself?

    Are you saying that Obama got a special paper just for him and that makes it authentic?

    Be carefull Kevin … if you have set up any kind of process that makes it appear that you can go online and purchase a ream of this extra hash mark paper … and you can’t … the term your fellow fools want to know regarding what citation is used to prosecute is … 61782 … sedicious conspiracy.

    But that does not describe what I mean … and that is why I say “accessory to treason”… so you understand what not to do … and that is that you should not falsely defend a felony.

    So make sure you are honest. What ever you want to call it … make sure you do not lie to defend a felony and of course I should not lie to accuse felony.

    Now will someone accuse me so I can have a trial and prove the forgery?

    You should prove to us that this special extra hashmark security paper must be the exact same design and color to match what we see on the Gurhrie pic … but with only 1 hash mark extra … and I doubt you can do that.

    Prove me wrong. But as I said … don’t set up a false source. If I can prove your source is bogus … you could be accused of defending a felony crime with false evidence.

    This is what the gang of fools are basically saying … that I am using false evidence to expose a felony crime.

    No Kevin I don’t need a reporter in Spartenberg … I want you to maintain the same posture … defending a felony … in front of law enforcement and tell them why I am wrong … like you have been doing so far.

    Thanks for making it easy for me to reply ,,, Paul

  48. avatar
    Georgetown JD August 26, 2015 at 9:43 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    None of you are directly replying to my challenge.

    And you haven’t identified the statute that criminalizes disbelief of your nonsense.

    I’ll help you. I’ll begin the citation and you fill in the blank. 18 U.S.C. section ______.

  49. avatar
    Pete August 26, 2015 at 10:32 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: None of you are directly replying to my challenge.

    You just offer insults and that isn’t proof of anything.

    It’s certainly true that insults (if that’s what they are) aren’t proof of anything.

    That said, while I can’t speak for others, I’ll tell you why I personally have no desire to entertain your stupid “challenge.”

    While you masquerade as a technological expert, you’re nothing more than an incompetent, delusional quack.

    And furthermore, that fact is blatantly obvious to anyone with one eye and half sense.

    I’ve even given two obvious indicators of your quack-ness. You don’t even know how spell “Xerox” (LET ALONE even remotely understanding how one actually WORKS), and you obviously thought you could post to Dr. C’s blog by replying to the notification emails.

    I’m certain we could also come up with a list of points on which you’ve previously been PROVEN to be completely WRONG, but that’s not even necessary.

    I find it at least somewhat entertaining to see you posting here, but it’s just for the amusement value. I have no more wish to play your stupid little birther game than I do to debate Paris Hilton on the neurological science of phantom limb pain, or to debate Bozo the Clown on the long-term economic and sociological consequences of replacing the current Internal Revenue Code with a flat tax system.

    All of which are, in any event, completely useless wastes of time.

    I guess what I’m saying here is: you’ve successfully proven one thing.

    That no one with even half a brain should take you seriously, ever again.

  50. avatar
    Pete August 26, 2015 at 10:33 pm #

    PS: When I describe you as an incompetent, delusional quack, I’m NOT insulting you.

    That’s the sad thing.

    That’s not an insult, it’s an INFORMED EVALUATION. It’s a DIAGNOSIS, not an insult.

  51. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 26, 2015 at 10:45 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: sedicious conspiracy.

    Ummm you might want to get a dictionary.

  52. avatar
    Arthur B. August 26, 2015 at 11:10 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Now will someone accuse me so I can have a trial and prove the forgery?

    Do you understand, Paul, that if there ever were a trial at which the President had to prove when and where he was born, those representing him would present a paper document? Maybe the COLB, maybe the LFBC, maybe one of the verification letters…

    Do you realize that at no point would your nonsense about a PDEF ever be considered relevant? The question of its validity wouldn’t even come up. You can see it in the way Judge Masin schooled Mario Apuzzo on this point.

    Why don’t you prove that the COLB is fake? At least that could come in handy in a courtroom.

  53. avatar
    y_p_w August 26, 2015 at 11:44 pm #

    Arthur B.: Do you understand, Paul, that if there ever were a trial at which the President had to prove when and where he was born, those representing him would present a paper document? Maybe the COLB, maybe the LFBC, maybe one of the verification letters…

    Do you realize that at no point would your nonsense about a PDEF ever be considered relevant? The question of its validity wouldn’t even come up.

    Why don’t you prove that the COLB is fake? At least that could come in handy in a courtroom.

    Well – what court would require more than the common abstract form that Hawaii issues to be admitted as evidence? It would clearly meet Federal Rules of Evidence, Rule 902 as well as Rule 803. Of course being admitted as evidence doesn’t mean that a record can’t be questioned or argued as incorrect, but I’d think the bar is kind of high. And bringing up the curvature of a PDF (and I do see where the typing curves slightly) isn’t going to go well in court.

  54. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2015 at 12:49 am #

    It’s difficult to take seriously someone who misspells the word “misspell.”

    Of course, accusing Doc of a non-existent crime (“accessory to treason”) doesn’t enhance his credibility, either.

  55. avatar
    John Reilly August 27, 2015 at 1:07 am #

    Paul, no one is stopping you from reporting what crimes you think the President or anyone else has committed to the FBI or other law enforcement agency. Go for it. In most places in this country you can just dial 911. I’m confident that if you report these crimes as you see them, Doc, (also known as Kevin Davidson) will be pleased to write about what happened. Heck, Kevin has even offered to go with you to his local FBI office in Southern California.

    The following web site may be helpful. It shows you contact information for the FBI’s New York Office at 26 Federal Plaza.

    https://www.fbi.gov/newyork/

    Do let us know the results. While most of us here do not think much of your claims, why are you trying to persuade us when you have information about what you think is treason? If I had evidence of treason, I’d be contacting law enforcement, and not just post to Doc’s blog.

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 1:18 am #

    It should be rather obvious to everyone that you say “the forger” rather than naming the individual because if you did, you’d put yourself in jeopardy of being sued for defamation.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Two brith (sic) certificates … the forgers (sic) and Obama’s are distorted by way of both being exaclty (sic) the same width in reduction … but the height of both is the same as all the other Hawaiin (sic) birth certificates of the era.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 1:20 am #

    An original verification letter was presented to the court in the Taitz v. Mississippi Democrat Party case.

    Arthur B.: Do you understand, Paul, that if there ever were a trial at which the President had to prove when and where he was born, those representing him would present a paper document? Maybe the COLB, maybe the LFBC, maybe one of the verification letters

  58. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 1:22 am #

    South Carolina.

    John Reilly: Kevin has even offered to go with you to his local FBI office in Southern California.

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 1:53 am #

    You should realize that your statement makes no sense in support of your argument.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Two brith (sic) certificates … the forgers (sic) and Obama’s are distorted by way of both being exaclty (sic) the same width in reduction … but the height of both is the same as all the other Hawaiin (sic) birth certificates of the era.

  60. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 2:20 am #

    First of all, most of the horizontal rules on the form are not visibly curved. Only towards the bottom is this visible. Second, the text is too far to the right to show significant curvature. The ONLY place you might attempt to make the measurement is on the single word in block 13, and there is too much variation in the overall height of characters to make any conclusions based on those 7 letters, which to me don’t seem to be in a straight line anyway. For example, see the variation in the word “Honolulu” sloping upward in block 11.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: The letters were pasted one by one along a straight line. She paid no attention to the curved horizontal rules on the form.

  61. avatar
    Keith August 27, 2015 at 2:30 am #

    Jim: Trump has already stated he’s sent his investigators to Hawaii and you won’t believe what they’ve found.

    I have finally come to the conclusion that Trump’s ‘you won’t believe’ statement is probably 100% correct. Especially since he was talking to ‘the faithful’ i.e. his birther suckers audience.

    Since what he ‘found out’ was that President Obama was born in Honolulu, just like he (and the State of Hawai’i) says, the birthers really wouldn’t believe what he found out.

  62. avatar
    Lupin August 27, 2015 at 2:33 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Everyone should decide … is it or is it not a forgery?

    Good question.,

    Why don’t we ask the people who created the document — the State of Hawaii?

    Oops.

    Never mind.

    Seriously, you don’t really know anything about anything, do you? Because i worked with famous (now deceased) French artist Moebius for 15 years, I am from time to time asked to authenticate a piece of art as part of its provenance. (Yes, there are fakes around.) So I am a little familiar with provenance at least in the art world.

    There is not a shred of doubt in the real world (to which you obviously don’t belong) that Obama’s Birth Certificate as created by the State of HI and displayed by the WH is an original and authentic document.

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 2:40 am #

    Actually you just made that up. In 1991, for example, they used a bank note styled paper with “VOID” marks. See page 6 of this document:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20101209150222/http://hawaii.gov/dhs/quicklinks/peter_boy/pbkjr_vol5_p32.pdf

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Hawaii has always used this one secrutiy (sic) paper design.

  64. avatar
    bob August 27, 2015 at 2:43 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    An original verification letter was presented to the court in the Taitz v. Mississippi Democrat Party case.

    Of course, that doesn’t provide any legal protection, as it is clear from context (i.e., Vogt’s “sealed” declaration) who Irey thinks this “forger” is. That she hasn’t yet sued Irey (and Vogt) doesn’t mean they are correct. Rather, the more likely reason is her not even knowing that these two fools have falsely accused her of committing a crime.

    Moreover, Vogt falsely accused Doc of committing a crime. A rational person would conclude suing a nut over his inane wind-spitting isn’t worth the time or expense, but in Irey’s world, inaction implies agreement.

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 2:52 am #

    Statements made in legal briefs have absolute immunity from defamation claims. To my knowledge neither Irey nor Vogt were fool enough to name her outside of that immunity.

    But even if they did, lawsuits are a nasty business and can take years and lots of money to prosecute.

    bob: That she hasn’t yet sued Irey (and Vogt) doesn’t mean they are correct.

  66. avatar
    bob August 27, 2015 at 2:54 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: the term your fellow fools want to know regarding what citation is used to prosecute is … 61782 … sedicious conspiracy.

    Egregious misspelling aside, WTF does that even mean?

    Now will someone accuse me so I can have a trial and prove the forgery?

    Is this to what birthers have been reduced — trolling for lawsuits? How did this grand strategy work for Lakin?

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 2:56 am #

    Well the funny thing is that what Vogt accused me of doing, researching Hawaiian birth certificates and figuring out what belonged in each box, is something I did and did quite publicly. Doing that is, however, not a crime and I think one would be hard pressed to support “Vogt accused Doc of committing a crime” by what he actually put in his court action.

    bob: Moreover, Vogt falsely accused Doc of committing a crime.

  68. avatar
    Pete August 27, 2015 at 8:57 am #

    bob: Moreover, Vogt falsely accused Doc of committing a crime. A rational person would conclude suing a nut over his inane wind-spitting isn’t worth the time or expense, but in Irey’s world, inaction implies agreement.

    If Irey or Vogt accused me of forging the President’s birth certificate, or of “accessory to treason,” I’d… I’d… well, I’d go make another cup of coffee.

  69. avatar
    alg August 27, 2015 at 9:06 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    Onaka must know that … but he impressed his perfectly round state of Hawaii seal on a already distorted birth certificate. Tell me how that happened. You people see no problem with that?

    You do realize, Paul, that Dr. Onaka has, on three separate occasions, issued official Verifications pursuant to Hawaii State Law that the President’s long form birth certificate on Whitehouse.gov is authentic and accurate?

    It is noteworthy that birthers like Mr. Irey consistently fail to address this decisive little fact. Without an affirmative statement from Hawaii’s statutory custodian of birth certificate records that the President’s LFBC is a forgery, it doesn’t matter how many PDF “anomalies” birthers can trump up with their overactive imaginations. The forgery claims instantly evaporate with Onaka’s official Verification statement. End of story.

    Irey won’t address this point because he can’t. Nor will any other birther.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 9:57 am #

    Irey continues to attempt to post by email. I guess it works in a sense because I’m copying the stuff.

    U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 115 › § 2381

    18 U.S. Code § 2381 – Treason

    US Code
    Notes

    prev | next
    Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
    This applys to Obama more than to the Obots who obviously support him.
    I was qualified as an expert to testify at the Indianapolus, Indiana court before a judge who later rendered a decision that although I was qualified as an expert in typography … I was not an expert in the printed word.
    But since I had produced countless thousands of ads in print … how could I not be an expert in the printed word?
    Still no one here answers the critical questions I posted.
    Still everyone continues to insult.
    Seems like you lost if you can’t apply common scense and respond to the real questions.
    Find the extra row of hashmark art green security background paper.
    Post it somewhere and send the location for me to view.
    The burden of proof lies with you now … not me.
    I have shown you Savanna Guthrie’s pic with the extra row.
    I told you how it happened.
    Your best reply is that it was this unique extra hashmark version of security paper …
    Or it was all altered by a PDF coversion that automatically put in the extra row with some kind of “Edge effect”.
    This unique different background … Vicklund says … can be purchased somewhere.
    So post it. I am anxious to see it.
    One of you claims that WND has proof of the Obama bc’s authenticity … but WND neglects to inform us of such proof.
    They publish for a living so that’s strange.
    Zullo speaks of proof that perhaps he can’t publish.
    But I have published all my own proof on Scribd.
    As far as I can tell … one Obot claims to have used his real full name …
    I think I’ll just deal with him and Kevin.
    Actually one post knows exactly where I’m going … downtown Manhattan FBI offices.
    I’ll let you all know how that works out.
    Kevin Davidson and Vicklunds offer contradictions to me … and to each other.
    I have not seen anything posted on Scribd … or been informed of any real … contradicting evidence to my Scribd post …
    except nonsense from the Kevin Davidson site.
    I see Kevin’s best shot … it was the Xerox that did it.
    and Vicklunds best shot … it was “special” paper.
    And I note that they contradict each other.
    Or are they somehow both correct?
    I say the forger invented it … simply to make the paper 8.5″ wide to compensate for the short in width only result of her copiers slipping feed rollers.
    Can any other fully named person offer another possibility?
    The forger is fully and properly named at least … and offered her best shot … a forgery that no one on Kevins site offers an opinion on.
    Someone should give me their real name and say it is obviously a forgery or it is obviously a real bc from the Hawaiian 1960 era.
    Most likely the FBI will require Zullo to part with her forgery to end that debate.
    I can hardly present insults to me as evidence … and that is what the majority here present.
    If you like to chew on names to insult me more … I am a distant relative of Elmer Irey from the US Treasury … who was key to the Al Capone income tax evasion conviction.
    And John Brown … who tried to get guns to the slaves to free themselves at Harpers Ferry … was immediately hung for his own treason by Robert E. Lee.
    John Brown’s neice married into the Irey family … up the Ohio river in Columbiana country … before or during the Civil War era … according to our family records.
    All I started out to accomplish was proof of media control … and Obama’s relationship with the press offered good evidence for that when two gay members of his church were murdered within a month of each other in Chicago … each with a bullet in the head … prior to Obamas election … and the press ignored it.
    Then the first judge heard the first Obama elligibility challenge and declared the challenger had “no standing” to challenge Obama’s elligibility to be president …
    and the judge did not need to read the evidence.
    What was important to me was that FOX news then put these words on thier web site … “Proof Obama born in Hawaii … Judge throws out case.”
    And I was off and running.
    Paul Edward Irey

  71. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 10:17 am #

    So in response, I observe that Irey is accusing me of treason. Folks like Irey and other right-wing nut jobs have used that word so frivolously, that it has lost its meaning. If I sued him, his attorney could make a very good defense claiming that it was hyperbole. (More on point is that I am a limited-purpose public figure, and I would have to prove that Irey knew better or exhibited reckless regard for the truth, which would require him to be competent.)

    Irey was allowed to testify in Indiana as an “expert” on printing, but NOT an expert on anything we are discussing here. And indeed if this were an argument about typesetting, he would be entitled to special attention. But that’s not what the discussion is about.

    The proofs from Irey that I examined in the past fell apart (see for example http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2014/10/light-fuse-and-run-away/). The character substitution feature of the Xerox invalidates most of your early work. Over and over, he’s shown himself to be incompetent. Irey stated that he knew Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery BEFORE HE LOOKED AT IT. That proves bias. Because of his bias, he jumps to conclusions, sees things that aren’t there, makes methodological mistakes, and sometimes just makes stuff up to force the world to conform to his biases. So, for example, he told an outright lie when he claimed that Hawaii had never changed its security paper. He made an unsupportable assumption that Hawaii does not use custom security paper, when in fact many states do. Irey is largely useless as a source because he confuses his prejudices with facts.

    There is a parable from Jesus about the woman who pesters an unjust judge. In the end, the judge gives the woman what she wants–not out of a sense of justice, but just to shut her up. In this case I am reluctant to count basket weave on fuzzy images, but I might.

    Irey said: “Someone should give me their real name and say it is obviously a forgery or it is obviously a real bc from the Hawaiian 1960 era.” OK, is there a qualified forensic electronic document examiner in the house? No? Sorry, Paul.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Irey continues to attempt to post by email. I guess it works in a sense because I’m copying the stuff.

  72. avatar
    Curious George August 27, 2015 at 10:46 am #

    It looks like computer scientist David Kriesel’s video has hit a nerve with Paul Edward Irey.

  73. avatar
    Pete August 27, 2015 at 10:55 am #

    I was qualified as an expert to testify at the Indianapolus, Indiana court…

    This is just sad.

    As far as responding to Irey’s latest round of stupid assertions, I think I’ve explained my reasons for not doing so. Irey has demonstrated again and again that he’s a fool. All of the patient replies to every other idiotic point he’s made in the past are public record.

    It’s like, make me reply to your idiotic, baseless, delusional, nutjob, evidence-free assertions once, shame on you. If I continue replying for the rest of my life to your idiotic, baseless, delusional, nutjob, evidence-free assertions, then shame on me.

    It’s the same stupid birther game, Round #173. They make a bunch of bullsh*t claims that are patiently and factually shot down. Okay, but what about [new round of bullsh*t claims]?!! The game never ends, and if you refuse to play, they accuse you of “not having evidence” or “refusing to confront the facts” or “treason” or some other such stupid bullcrap.

  74. avatar
    Pete August 27, 2015 at 10:57 am #

    Responding to the bullsh*t also just perpetuates the illusion (or delusion) in the birther’s mind that they are “important,” or that they have something “important” or “relevant” to say.

    The truth is, the reality is, rational people only find birthers “relevant” for a bit of entertainment value.

    They are fools, in both the literal sense and the entertainment sense of the word.

  75. avatar
    Lupin August 27, 2015 at 11:16 am #

    How do we know there really is a “Paul Edward Irey” anyway?

    He could just as well be Dimitry Lenninov, a notorious KGB agent/infiltrator whose trace was lost by the FBI after he entered the US. They’re both around the same age, and judging from Irey’s facebook photo look kind of the same.

    Has anyone actually seen proof of Irey’s identity? How do we know he isn’t Lenninov?

  76. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 11:22 am #

    So it is looking like the Obama birth certificate is not printed on stock Simpson Design Secure paper. Here is an image I made comparing the two:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Simpson-Guthrie.jpg

    At the top is a photograph I took from my stock of Simpson Design secure, which includes some background to indicate where the paper ends. At the bottom is a zoomed in version of the Savannah Guthrie photo of Obama’s certificate. What I see is the patterns aligning on the left side, but progressively getting more out of alignment across the page. That is, the pattern is at a different scale–with the Guthrie image being slightly larger. (Please if anyone finds a methodology error, let me know.)

    That’s great as far as I am concerned because the use of off-the-shelf security paper that would make forging a Hawaiian birth certificate much easier has always bothered me.

  77. avatar
    bob August 27, 2015 at 11:22 am #

    There’s only one name Irey needs to concern himself with: Alvin Onaka, Hawaii’s Registrar of Vital Statistics. Onaka has duly certified the (actual, paper) birth certificates, and has officially verified that the information on the digital images is accurate. That’s enough for any court in the United States (and, I suspect, the FBI). That it isn’t enough for Irey is his problem alone.

    And, Doc, I would say Vogt accused you of a crime. Generally speaking, Vogt alleged (read: imagined) there is a conspiracy to destroy the United States that sought to install Obama as president, and did so in part by forging his birth certificate. Vogt alleged you were part of that conspiracy, and that you aided that conspiracy by providing technical assistance in field of birth certificates. Although Vogt does not cite specific code sections, it is clear he is referring to unlawfully overthrowing the United States government and forgery, that you agreed to conspire with others to commit these acts, and that you took acts in furtherance of that agreement. (Also, Vogt claimed he had a duty to report these “crimes” to avoid his own criminal liability under the misprision statutes.)

    Too bad that Vogt has disappeared; we could just ask him directly.

  78. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 11:28 am #

    Have you ever heard of hyperlinks or URLs?

    Paul Irey: But I have published all my own proof on Scribd.

  79. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 11:36 am #

    Remember those t-shirts with Obama birth certificate characters? What the Xerox information does is to invalidate pretty much all he ever said at the start.

    Curious George:
    It looks like computer scientist David Kriesel’s video has hit a nerve with Paul Edward Irey.

  80. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 27, 2015 at 11:45 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Remember those t-shirts with Obama birth certificate characters? What the Xerox information does is to invalidate pretty much all he ever said at the start.

    I think even Zullo realized this. It’s why he said in his last interview that they’re throwing out the old “evidence” and looking for new “evidence”

  81. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) August 27, 2015 at 11:46 am #

    bob: Vogt alleged (read: imagined) there is a conspiracy to destroy the United States that sought to install Obama as president

    Even if such a conspiracy existed and were powerful enough to control Congress, all states and SCOTUS, it wouldn’t make sense. With such power, “they” could’ve easily amended the Constitution to allow naturalized citizens to become Prez, or installed a lily-white Christian Southern “two citizen parent NBC” as their “puppet” if they wanted to.
    So even within the belief system of the conspiracy theorist, the theory doesn’t hold water. The conspiracy that’s all-powerful yet powerless, mightily cunning yet enormously stupid, all-silencing yet allowing birthers to make national headlines…

  82. avatar
    RanTalbott August 27, 2015 at 12:08 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    To my knowledge neither Irey nor Vogt were fool enough to name her outside of that immunity.

    When Irey did his “the rollers on the scanner go round and round” silliness, I suggested that the inadequate redaction of her BC image might constitute “naming her”, but I don’t think I ever got the opinion I asked for from the resident lawyers.

    But, as you say, unless there’s a lawyer willing to take it on as a hobby, a lawsuit is highly unlikely even if I’m right.

  83. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund August 27, 2015 at 1:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    So it is looking like the Obama birth certificate is not printed on stock Simpson Design Secure paper. Here is an image I made comparing the two:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Simpson-Guthrie.jpg

    At the top is a photograph I took from my stock of Simpson Design secure, which includes some background to indicate where the paper ends. At the bottom is a zoomed in version of the Savannah Guthrie photo of Obama’s certificate. What I see is the patterns aligning on the left side, but progressively getting more out of alignment across the page. That is, the pattern is at a different scale–with the Guthrie image being slightly larger. (Please if anyone finds a methodology error, let me know.)

    That’s great as far as I am concerned because the use of off-the-shelf security paper that would make forging a Hawaiian birth certificate much easier has always bothered me.

    Looking at the comparison, it is apparent that the paatern is skewed in your photo. This causes the pattern to appear smaller than it actually is. I can’t tell for sure, but it is possible that when unskewed, the patterns are the same scale. One question that will help: is the pattern skewed on the paper, or is it just your photo?

  84. avatar
    Crustacean August 27, 2015 at 1:26 pm #

    Same difference! 🙂

    Doc, are you gonna go see that movie about the famous hip hop group from your neck of the woods? I think it’s called “Straight Outta Hampton”…

    Dr. Conspiracy: South Carolina.

    John Reilly: Kevin has even offered to go with you to his local FBI office in Southern California.

  85. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 1:30 pm #

    If it were skewed, wouldn’t that result in the edge moving to the right also?

    That was a hand-held photo. I have a copy stand I could use and bubble level and such.

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Looking at the comparison, it is apparent that the paatern is skewed in your photo.

  86. avatar
    y_p_w August 27, 2015 at 1:40 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    So it is looking like the Obama birth certificate is not printed on stock Simpson Design Secure paper. Here is an image I made comparing the two:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Simpson-Guthrie.jpg

    At the top is a photograph I took from my stock of Simpson Design secure, which includes some background to indicate where the paper ends. At the bottom is a zoomed in version of the Savannah Guthrie photo of Obama’s certificate. What I see is the patterns aligning on the left side, but progressively getting more out of alignment across the page. That is, the pattern is at a different scale–with the Guthrie image being slightly larger. (Please if anyone finds a methodology error, let me know.)

    That’s great as far as I am concerned because the use of off-the-shelf security paper that would make forging a Hawaiian birth certificate much easier has always bothered me.

    It’s been noted already that there are different suppliers for green basketweave security paper. Even if it’s a different supplier or even a different product from the same supplier, there’s nothing particularly wrong with an off the shelf security paper. As far as I know, Hawaii doesn’t have particular requirements for vital records paper written into the law, such as what California has.

    I’ve seen images of a few other birth certificate copies that used a similar style of paper. While I suppose the paper might not be as counterfeit-proof if it’s readily available, I thought the primary reason for that kind of paper is to show evidence of tampering. The ink is not supposed to penetrate deeply and will show signs of an attempt to erase. They might use fluorescent fibers. And most importantly they likely have chemical erasure indicators (starbursts) from exposure to solvents.

    This company is selling a medical prescription paper with erasure protection. On an attempt to erase, the background will show evidence since the ink will rub off.

    http://www.rxsecurityfeatures.com

  87. avatar
    y_p_w August 27, 2015 at 1:45 pm #

    John Reilly:
    Heck, Kevin has even offered to go with you to his local FBI office in Southern California.

    I thought he said South Carolina, although the weather is pretty nice right about now in Southern California.

  88. avatar
    Arthur B. August 27, 2015 at 2:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: An original verification letter was presented to the court in the Taitz v. Mississippi Democrat Party case.

    Yes, good example.

    The point I was trying to make to Paul is that there are no circumstances under which a legal proceeding involving a challenge to the President’s eligibility would ever find consideration of the PDF to be relevant.

  89. avatar
    bob August 27, 2015 at 3:02 pm #

    RanTalbott: When Irey did his “the rollers on the scanner go round and round” silliness, I suggested that the inadequate redaction of her BC image might constitute “naming her”, but I don’t think I ever got the opinion I asked for from the resident lawyers.

    But, as you say, unless there’s a lawyer willing to take it on as a hobby, a lawsuit is highly unlikely even if I’m right.

    In the United States, a statement that does not expressly name someone can still be defamatory. (The legal term of art is “innuendo.”) IMO, Vogt (and Irey) have crossed that line.

    But you are correct: no lawyer is going to take it on, even as a hobby. Look, for example, at Taitz: She defames people all the time, and has assets. But her spewings simply don’t cause any measurable damages.

  90. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2015 at 3:13 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:

    Now will someone accuse me so I can have a trial and prove the forgery?

    What is that you want people to accuse you of?

    You realize, I hope, that people are free to express their opinions. I could call you ignorant, or obtuse, or biased, or a poor speller, but none of that would be actionable in any court in the country.

  91. avatar
    y_p_w August 27, 2015 at 3:13 pm #

    Arthur B.: Yes, good example.

    The point I was trying to make to Paul is that there are no circumstances under which a legal proceeding involving a challenge to the President’s eligibility would ever find consideration of the PDF to be relevant.

    There might be some convoluted use of Federal Rules of Evidence, Rule 901:

    (a) In General. To satisfy the requirement of authenticating or identifying an item of evidence, the proponent must produce evidence sufficient to support a finding that the item is what the proponent claims it is.

    (b) Examples. The following are examples only — not a complete list — of evidence that satisfies the requirement:

    (9) Evidence About a Process or System. Evidence describing a process or system and showing that it produces an accurate result.

    It would be a stretch however.

  92. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 27, 2015 at 3:59 pm #

    Since the certificate was perma bound, I would assume, in a book when it was photocopied that alone would produce some level of distortion, copying it onto the security paper would probably also have an effect. I know this for a fact since my own BC shows all that and would therefore by this fool’s lights therefor be a forgery. In fact, now that I think about it, my BC shows all the things that they are complaining about.

    Just out of curiosity, how many firms actually make the basket weave security paper, since I assume it is not a one company item?

  93. avatar
    HistorianDude August 27, 2015 at 4:01 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    Blah, blah, blah….

    Hey Paul. I never got your opinion on this:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/194384601/20-Shades-of-Vogt#scribd

    And yes, that’s my real name too.

  94. avatar
    Arthur B. August 27, 2015 at 4:02 pm #

    y_p_w: To satisfy the requirement of authenticating or identifying an item of evidence…

    I don’t understand. Doesn’t that presuppose that the PDF is introduced as evidence of the President’s birth data?

    My point was that Team Obama would surely rely on a paper document. Impeachment of the PDF would not be relevant.

    Am I somehow missing your point?

  95. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund August 27, 2015 at 4:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    If it were skewed, wouldn’t that result in the edge moving to the right also?

    That was a hand-held photo. I have a copy stand I could use and bubble level and such.

    It depends on whether it is skewed on the paper or by the camera.

  96. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 27, 2015 at 4:57 pm #

    The PDF is not and never was a legal document, it is a multi generation copy, so there is no reason it would ever be introduced in court when there is a certified BC or verification available. It is as the Zullo says, irrelevant!!!! Kinda sorta like Irey and Dougy, of no consequence.

  97. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2015 at 5:18 pm #

    Notorial Dissent:
    The PDF is not and never was a legal document, it is a multi generation copy, so there is no reason it would ever be introduced in court when there is a certified BC or verification available. It is as the Zullo says, irrelevant!!!!Kinda sorta like Irey and Dougy, of no consequence.

    Yes, Irey doesn’t seem to understand that it doesn’t matter if the PDF is a forgery. If Obama ever were to be ordered to produce his birth certificate, he would produce the signed and sealed document which he received from Hawaii in 2011. That document is self-authenticating in accordance with Rule 902:

    The following items of evidence are self-authenticating; they require no extrinsic evidence of authenticity in order to be admitted:

    (1) Domestic Public Documents That Are Sealed and Signed. A document that bears:

    (A) a seal purporting to be that of the United States; any state, district, commonwealth, territory, or insular possession of the United States; the former Panama Canal Zone; the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands; a political subdivision of any of these entities; or a department, agency, or officer of any entity named above.

    The authenticity of a self-authenticating document can be challenged, but the burden of proof is on the party making the challenge.

  98. avatar
    y_p_w August 27, 2015 at 6:25 pm #

    Arthur B.: I don’t understand. Doesn’t that presuppose that the PDF is introduced as evidence of the President’s birth data?

    My point was that Team Obama would surely rely on a paper document. Impeachment of the PDF would not be relevant.

    Am I somehow missing your point?

    Well – we have had cases (think the whole fiasco in Atlanta) where Obama’s team didn’t play ball and the state Democratic Party submitted a copy of the WH PDF with a link to the website. I don’t know if that would necessarily be accepted by the court as evidence. Someone might attempt to question that the “process” proves it can’t be real and thus shouldn’t be allowed as evidence. Of course I said it would be a stretch.

  99. avatar
    y_p_w August 27, 2015 at 6:28 pm #

    Rickey: Yes, Irey doesn’t seem to understand that it doesn’t matter if the PDF is a forgery. If Obama ever were to be ordered to produce his birth certificate, he would produce the signed and sealed document which he received from Hawaii in 2011.

    Nah – I would recommend a new copy of the abstract from the HDoH, just to mess with whoever is bringing this case. Also – that way the evidence could be filed with the court.

  100. avatar
    Joey August 27, 2015 at 7:33 pm #

    My understanding is that copies of the long form birth certificate were provided to Judge Michael Mahili in Georgia by defense attorney Michael Jablonski; also for Judge Henry Wingate in Mississippi by defense attorneys Sam Begley and Scott Tepper; and in an Amicus Brief submitted by the Alabama Democratic Party in the Alabama eligibility challenge before the Alabama Supreme Court, McInnish v Chapman.

  101. avatar
    Reality Check August 27, 2015 at 8:42 pm #

    I think one of the best debunking of Paul Irey’s nonsense was at the Raised on Hoecakes blog. Irey just sulked away from that spanking. (For some reason the Google search link gives a big virus warning).

  102. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 27, 2015 at 8:46 pm #

    Reality Check:
    I think one of the best debunking of Paul Irey’s nonsense was at the Raised on Hoecakes blog. Irey just sulked away from that spanking. (For some reason the Google search link gives a big virus warning).

    This one? http://raisedonhoecakes.com/ROH/2011/06/17/paul-irey-doesn%E2%80%99t-like-us-we-are-not-shedding-tears/

  103. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2015 at 8:57 pm #

    Ah, well the the design on my sample is skewed on the paper about 2 mm vertically from one side to the other. This was measured with a ruler on the paper.

    When I get in the mood, I’ll work on it some more.

    W. Kevin Vicklund: It depends on whether it is skewed on the paper or by the camera.

  104. avatar
    Reality Check August 27, 2015 at 9:33 pm #

    I found a slight skew in the pattern on the security paper that you sent me.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Ah, well the the design on my sample is skewed on the paper about 2 mm vertically from one side to the other. This was measured with a ruler on the paper.

  105. avatar
    Sef August 27, 2015 at 9:52 pm #

    Reality Check:
    I found a slight skew in the pattern on the security paper that you sent me.

    Sounds like a security feature to introduce a moire pattern in a copy/scan.

  106. avatar
    y_p_w August 27, 2015 at 10:03 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Simpson-Guthrie.jpg

    No thought that it might just be a difference in scale?

    Looking at the patterns lining up sort of reminds me of how one poker player and his associate managed to find a couple of casinos offering mini-Baccarat (Punto Banco) and found an “edge defect” in the back of the cards. It took a whole lot of convincing casino employees that they were just superstitious, but they managed to persuade the dealer to flip each card a certain way, not perform standard shuffle techniques (flipping half the cards before shuffling), and using the same set of cards the next day.

    A casino in London won a judgement against him after they withheld his winnings, but that’s under appeal. A casino in Atlantic City let him cash out his winnings but later sued him to get their money back.

    http://espn.go.com/espn/chalk/story/_/id/11665414/phil-ivey-loses-124m-battle-court-being-accused-improperly-withholding-winnings
    http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13308386/phil-ivey-countersues-borgata-casino-baccarat-winnings

    Sorry about going OT.

  107. avatar
    Thomas Lee Brown August 27, 2015 at 11:29 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    With this story … He and evey one of his gang of fools on this site may very well be guilty of accesories to treason.This is why not one person posting here dares to use his own real name.

    You have two modes, Paul: Lying and ignorant. I use my real name, and feel free to look me up with True Bill of Indictment for Treason in hand. I’m in Baltimore. Everybody in the Woodworking field knows me. Bring it, punk.

    I’m not afraid… because your idea that any of us has done anything criminal or even immoral is just horseshit. “…guilty of accessories[sic] to treason? What are you, five? Or so brain-damaged or lazy that you cannot discover there is no such charge? Or that treason has a specific meaning in law, and de-bunking birfer bullcrap isn’t included.

    You’re wrong about everything regarding the President’s natural-born status and the ample documentation and verification thereof. I’m sure you know you’re talking shit sometimes, but just vomit forth your pathetic partisan propaganda anyway, which makes you a liar. Sometimes you may actually have no idea what you’re talking about and don’t care to check, and then you are merely ignorant. But you are never right.

    We’re not going to jail, Obama isn’t either, and you will fail in your attempt to convince posterity that he was evil. Folks will be admiring our 44th President when not even Wikipedia remebers Paul Irey.

  108. avatar
    Thomas Lee Brown August 27, 2015 at 11:38 pm #

    “In Treason all are principals… there are no accessories in Treason.” –The American and English Encyclopedia of Law, Second Edition, Volume 1, edited by David Shephard Garland. London, 1898.

    It’s not good to be so dumb you think everyone is dumber than you, Paul.

  109. avatar
    John Reilly August 28, 2015 at 12:42 am #

    Paul Irey: Actually one post knows exactly where I’m going … downtown Manhattan FBI offices.
    I’ll let you all know how that works out.

    So Paul, you went to the cops today, right? I mean, after all, you claim to have evidence that the President has a forged birth certificate, which is, in your view treason. The rest of us are guilty, you say, of seditious conspiracy. Well, maybe not Lupin or the Magic M, but most of us. So what are you waiting for? You’ve got us cornered. We promise to wait around. Dial 911 or call the FBI. I gave you the number. Here it is again in case you misplaced it: (212) 384-1000.

  110. avatar
    gorefan August 28, 2015 at 12:51 am #

    Paul Irey: I’ll let you all know how that works out.

    I think everyone here has a pretty good idea of how that’s going to work out.

  111. avatar
    Pete August 28, 2015 at 4:14 am #

    Hey, Paul. What town are you in? I’ll help you find a phone number for the closest FBI office.

    Doofus.

  112. avatar
    Pete August 28, 2015 at 4:22 am #

    Okay, that was admittedly snarky. Let me try to do a bit better.

    Paul: I have a serious question for you. Or two.

    Would you trust the judgment of a man who has repeatedly been proven wrong?

    Would you trust the expertise of a man regarding matters involving the complex internal operations of computer-algorithm-driven Xerox machines, who doesn’t know anything about those internal operations, and who doesn’t even know how to spell “Xerox?”

    Would you consider a man who accuses people of nonexistent crimes to be well-informed in matters of law?

    And finally, would you consider a man who doesn’t know how to spell “Indianapolis” to be generally well-educated?

    If so, why?

  113. avatar
    roadburner August 28, 2015 at 6:02 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:

    more rubbish….

    lets make this simple…

    you are a fool who doesn’t seem to be able to grasp that one cannot legally prove forgery of a document from a multi-generation copy that was then posted as a PDF.

    any accredited document examiner who made such a claim in court would be committing a serious breach of ethics.

    you seem to be ignoring the elephant – nay! wooly mammoth! – in the room which is the verifications from the hawaii state registrar which state quite clearly that the information contained in the PDF match the archive BC.

    this is a major problem for your dreams of getting to court and presenting your so-called `evidence’, because those letters are prima facie evidence of fact in any court proceeding in the united states in accordance with the full faith and credit clause of the united states constitution.

    the other problem it presents for you is if the information in the PDF matches the archive BC, what possible reason would there be for forging a BC with the same information as the original? just that sends your arguement crashing to the ground in flames faster than the hindenberg!

    in my opinion which i am stating here publicly, you are a fool who at best is more interested in self-promotion than the truth, or at worst driven by darker reasons to attempt to question the legitimacy of your elected president.

    to be frank, your reluctance to face the facts i have posted here or even address them brings me to the conclusion that it is the former rather than the latter.

  114. avatar
    Yoda August 28, 2015 at 6:42 am #

    Mr. Irey’s problem is not that he is stupid or even delusional but that he is arrogant. I see this all the time.

    I have a niche legal practice. It is very specialized and there are very few people in the country who do what I do. Although not complicated, it is very nuanced and requires an understanding of insurance and construction principles. Sometimes I am opposed by attorneys who do not regularly defend these types of lawsuits. It says seems like we are speaking different languages because of their basic lack of understanding of the issues. They are, for lack of a less insulting term, completely ignorant of some of the basic principles of the cases. They often come to wrong conclusions and accuse my clients of fraud simply because they do not understand this area of law. Generally, these are not stupid people, they are simply not competent in this specific area of law, just as I would be if I attempted to handle a medical malpractice lawsuit.

    Further, to a person, they get highly insulted and believe that I am attacking their intelligence when I point out I do this kind of work everyday and their understanding of something is incorrect. Their arrogance leads them to believe that because they are intelligent they can just jump into any litigation with ease and be competent.

    Such is the case with Mr. Irey. I, like the Court in Indiana, will accept he is an expert in his limited field. But he believes that expertise can be extrapolated into areas that are all beyond his knowledge or understanding. Believing that a person who is an expert in typewriters is qualified to render an opinion with regard to computers is akin to believing that a person who repaired engines on Model Ts is automatically qualified to fix the engine on a Lamborgini. It is just not the case.

  115. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 28, 2015 at 7:36 am #

    Yoda, I will agree with most all of your sentiments regarding Mr Irey, with the exception that I still do not see that he is in any way shape or form qualified as an expert on typewriters simply because he once used one. Now if he had spent his career repairing and rebuilding them then I would concede he probably would know what he was talking about, however in this instance I question any presence of expertise, any more than I am an expert on copiers because I have used one once. Actually I’ve used a great number, far more than I care to remember, over the years, although not once a xerox. I can attest to their quirks and annoying habits, but really couldn’t tell you anything about the modern ones other than that you feed it a piece of paper, push a button, and you get a copy, fax, pdf, or whatever. I know in the generalest of terms what they do and how they do it, beyond that for all of me that I know or care it is magic. I do not believe however for even a second that Mr Irey’s understanding reaches that pinnacle of ignorance, but I do believe he is not a qualified expert in or at anything he has to date laid claim to. He has set himself up as an expert in fields of which he has no knowledge even at the anecdotal level, and his arguments all show this.

  116. avatar
    PAUL EDWARD IREY August 28, 2015 at 9:32 am #

    It should be obvious that anyone who had used a typewriter all day for 4 years … then ran a typesetting company … would know more that the usual person. For example I claim that typewritten copy should have the same size letters on the same document and exhibit the same letter spacing. Obama’s bc does not.
    One of my points of proof is that the Obama bc has 6 examples of the lower case “an” combination … and none of the spaces between those letters are the same … and sameness is what we should expect if those letters were really typed. I also took the time to ask older ladies in the retirement communities in Delray Beach … I lived in one at the time … that were typist prior to the IBM Selectric … and they all agreed that the spaces should be the same and also that the letters should all be the same size. Any older retired typist would claim the same thing.
    The kind of facts I brought to the court in Indiana should have been apparent to the 65 year old judge who also had been a typist in her past. These simple facts really do not require a forensic examiner to declare. Maybe an expert like Peter Tytel … who also refused to examine the Obama bc … would be required for finer details … as was evident when the Lindbergh baby kidnapper used his own typewriter to make the ransom note … and an expert testified that given the typed letters slight bends to the left … to the right and not bent … combined to identify the kidnapper’s typewriter exclusively.
    But as regards a forensic document examiner … we found that not one of the 225 we called would agree to examine … for pay … the Obama bc … so we had no choice but to use someone like me instead.
    In the case in Bakersfield, Calif. when Judge Edmunds agreed to allow me to testify … as soon as I got on the plane from Florida to California … he released an e-mail that he had decided not to allow me to testify.
    I brought my 30″ x 40″ inch briefcase into the courtroom with Orly Taitz anyway as she tried to change the judges mind. When he still refused … she used her last 10 minutes to pull out my 30″ x 40″ cards and presented it herself. The judge had no comment and looked embarased to me that he and the courtroom got to hear it anyway. Orly’s main repeated theme to the judge was that “you don’t have to be an expert” to agree with my evidence. On exiting the courtroom she got huge cheers from the spectators that heard the evidence and waited outside. Major media did not attend … but did report that we lost the case. No one heard anything about the evidence presented and I had allowed an Associated press photographer to photograph it outside before I entered the courthouse.
    Very common for media to cover Obama this way … and as you know … my complaint long before anyone heard of Obama was that the media is controlled daily by the editors … and the media owners know of this control.
    Now I suppose your gang will go crazy with that one … and I will see more insults and stories that media does not need to get involved in this “nonsense”. Be real Dr. Conspiracy. The media should have covered the simple … no expert required … evidence. The Indianapolas Star also refused to attend the trial there … but did report that we lost without reporting the evidence presented.
    We bought a full page ad that I made with many points of evidence that ran in the Washington Times more than once … but no editor in DC at the Wash. Post or the Wash. Times made any comment. I say they were not allowed to report it editorally. Deal with that issue if you like but try to put a hold on the insults. I am just telling you the facts here.
    Paul Irey

  117. avatar
    alg August 28, 2015 at 9:33 am #

    roadburner: you seem to be ignoring the elephant – nay! wooly mammoth! – in the room which is the verifications from the hawaii state registrar which state quite clearly that the information contained in the PDF match the archive BC.

    this is a major problem for your dreams of getting to court and presenting your so-called `evidence’, because those letters are prima facie evidence of fact in any court proceeding in the united states in accordance with the full faith and credit clause of the united states constitution.

    This remains only point that needs to be made. Only the State of Hawaii can verify an allegation that the President’s birth certificate is a forgery. Instead the State of Hawaii has verified exactly the opposite…on multiple occasions. End of story.

    Notably, Mr. Irey continues to ignore this unassailable fact. Mr. Irey could make a fine career out of counting angels on the heads of pins.

  118. avatar
    John Reilly August 28, 2015 at 9:41 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    It should be obvious that anyone who had used a typewriter all day for 4 years … then ran a typesetting company … would know more that the usual person.For example I claim that typewritten copy should have the same size letters on the same document and exhibit the same letter spacing. Obama’s bc does not.
    One of my points of proof is that the Obama bc has 6 examples of the lower case “an” combination … and none of the spaces between those letters are the same … and sameness is what we should expect if those letters were really typed.I also took the time to ask older ladies in the retirement communities in Delray Beach … I lived in one at the time … that were typist prior to the IBM Selectric … and they all agreed that the spaces should be the same and also that the letters should all be the same size.Any older retired typist would claim the same thing.
    The kind of facts I brought to the court in Indiana should have been apparent to the 65 year old judge who also had been a typist in her past.These simple facts really do not require a forensic examiner to declare.Maybe an expert like Peter Tytel … who also refused to examine the Obama bc … would be required for finer details … as was evident when the Lindbergh baby kidnapper used his own typewriter to make the ransom note … and an expert testified that given the typed letters slight bends to the left … to the right and not bent … combined to identify the kidnapper’s typewriter exclusively.
    But as regards a forensic document examiner … we found that not one of the 225 we called would agree to examine … for pay … the Obama bc … so we had no choice but to use someone like me instead.
    In the case in Bakersfield, Calif. when Judge Edmunds agreed to allow me to testify … as soon as I got on the plane from Florida to California … he released an e-mail that he had decided not to allow me to testify.
    I brought my 30″ x 40″ inch briefcase into the courtroom with Orly Taitz anyway as she tried to change the judges mind.When he still refused … she used her last 10 minutes to pull out my 30″ x 40″ cards and presented it herself.The judge had no comment and looked embarased to me that he and the courtroom got to hear it anyway.Orly’s main repeated theme to the judge was that “you don’t have to be an expert” to agree with my evidence.On exiting the courtroom she got huge cheers from the spectators that heard the evidence and waited outside. Major media did not attend … but did report that we lost the case. No one heard anything about the evidence presented and I had allowed an Associated press photographer to photograph it outside before I entered the courthouse.
    Very common for media to cover Obama this way … and as you know … my complaint long before anyone heard of Obama was that the media is controlled daily by the editors … and the media owners know of this control.
    Now I suppose your gang will go crazy with that one … and I will see more insults and stories that media does not need to get involved in this “nonsense”.Be real Dr. Conspiracy. The media should have covered the simple … no expert required … evidence.The Indianapolas Star also refused to attend the trial there … but did report that we lost without reporting the evidence presented.
    We bought a full page ad that I made with many points of evidence that ran in the Washington Times more than once … but no editor in DC at the Wash. Post or the Wash. Times made any comment. I say they were not allowed to report it editorally. Deal with that issue if you like but try to put a hold on the insults.I am just telling you the facts here.
    Paul Irey

    So you have not called the cops or FBI. Instead, you keep trying to persuade us, most of whom you think are in a seditious conspiracy with Pres. Obama. Where is the sense in that?

    Why don’t you just go to the FBI and let us all know how that worked out. You can bring your exhibits.

  119. avatar
    gorefan August 28, 2015 at 9:56 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: One of my points of proof is that the Obama bc has 6 examples of the lower case “an” combination

    You also said that two capital R s were different but Raisedonhoecakes showed you they were not. Remember this?

    http://raisedonhoecakes.com/ROH/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Irey-R-ROH2.jpg

    And remember how you failed with the same type of analysis on the copyright application?

    http://raisedonhoecakes.com/ROH/2014/06/08/more-on-blind-squirrels/

    No need for me to insult you as your work speaks for itself.

  120. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 28, 2015 at 10:04 am #

    Christ, Paul, how thick are you?

    1) THE IMAGE HAS BEEN PROCESSED BY COMPRESSION ALGORITHMS. Nothing you see is just as it left the typewriter.

    2) I have a number of old pre-electric typewriters laying around. THEY PRODUCE WEIRD SPACINGS. I’ve done it. Vertically as well as horizontally.

    3) Ergo YOU ARE TALKING SHIT. Not even your irrelevant arguments (in the face of repeated Verifications) are correct.

    YOU HAVE LOST. Give it up. Get over it. Take up playing chess or something. Do volunteer work. Make yourself useful.

  121. avatar
    y_p_w August 28, 2015 at 10:06 am #

    roadburner: this is a major problem for your dreams of getting to court and presenting your so-called `evidence’, because those letters are prima facie evidence of fact in any court proceeding in the united states in accordance with the full faith and credit clause of the united states constitution.

    While yes it probably is prima facie evidence in most courts, it would be admitted as evidence by various rules of evidence. It would be because most courts admit records that bear a government seal.

    I don’t think most courts ever get to the point where they worry about the Full Faith and Credit Clause.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1738
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1739

    Judicial proceedings require “a certificate of a judge of the court that the said attestation is in proper form.” Nonjudicial records require a certification by a judge or by certain state officials.

    I’m not saying it wouldn’t be admissible as evidence, but from a practical point of view FF&CC doesn’t typically become an issue because most courts don’t need to be compelled to accept prima facie evidence.

  122. avatar
    Keith August 28, 2015 at 10:14 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: For example I claim that typewritten copy should have the same size letters on the same document and exhibit the same letter spacing.

    And that claim is demonstrably incorrect.

    And any so-called ‘typewriter expert’ would know that.

    And it doesn’t matter one way or the other.

    What matters is the INFORMATION that is on the document – specifically the date and location of birth.

    Both pieces of INFORMATION are identical on every example of the Presidents birth certificate ever seen. Every single one, long or short.

    And the State of Hawai’i has stated many times, in the press, on their websites, and under oath, that the INFORMATION displayed on every example of the Presidents birth certificate matches (which means “is the same as”) the INFORMATION contained in their archived documents held by the DoH since 1961.

    The paper, the layout, the fonts, and the ink used are absolutely irrelevant beyond the use that is made of them to transmit INFORMATION to the reader.

    Exactly which piece of information on the document do you claim has been falsified?

    If no piece of information has been falsified, exactly what is the point of the forgery (or more accurately – what is the point of imagining that a forgery has taken place)?

  123. avatar
    bovril August 28, 2015 at 10:14 am #

    Paul, Paul, Paul

    You betray your own fundamental ignorance in the very words you use as faux rebuttal.

    You used a typewriter every day for 4 years then ran a typesetting company.

    Wonderful, good for you and exactly how much relevance to electronic documents, scanning, PDF’s, compression algorithms, network bandwidth optimisation etc does this provide you..?

    The answer is none

    Have you or any other member of the birther tendency ever had access to any of the original hard copy documents from the HDoH…?

    The answer is no

    Once every single one of the 225 people that you had selected as ‘experts’ in the what you personally believed was “the field” rejected your thesis did you think for one moment it was because there was no reality to your beliefs…?

    That would plainly be no

    When judges are quite plain in denoting that your personal beliefs do not an expert opinion make, do you accept and understand that their professional view actually has relevance where yours does not..?

    Plainly that would be no

    When Orly as a supposed lawyer, in Judge Malihi’s court suddenly took a sarcastic remark from the judge as instruction and decided she wanted to not only be a lawyer but to take the stand and interrogate herself, did you not think maybe she wasn’t actually a competent or even particularly bright advocate of your cause..?

    Obviously not

    The facts, as opposed to your sad little screed of bile is that the President of the USA is Obama, he holds the office by all constitutional and legal rights, he has had the facts of his birth sworn too in manners wholly and fully constitutional and legal on a number of occasions and you and your ilk are and remain incompetent, impotent and ineffectual with a big old bag of fail on top.

    Now, why don’t you trot off and repost your babble on over at sites such as Birfoon Report, Breitbart, WND or StormFront, I’m sure they will sup it up. Here we tend to focus on the reality based universe

  124. avatar
    PAUL EDWARD IREY August 28, 2015 at 10:24 am #

    I should have added to the above that the editors are controlled by the gov. as was confessed to me by one editor and also one owner … who were both long time friends. I don’t just guess and make things up as you may think. This is a fact. One editor from a major news source in Manhattan… and one owner of a major daily newspaper in New Jersey … both told me that the gov. contols and censors media daily on any story they don’t like.
    This has been going on even before the JFK assassination that … could never have happened in a country with a free media … that would have exposed that the gov. itself killed JFK … and one should see that simply by looking at the Zapruder film that exhibits alteration. I have two exhibits for that and am quite willing to let your crew see them and then explain thier own views. Since it ties in with the censorship of the media that to this day protects Obama … I’m pretty sure your gang would take the position that Oswald alone killed JFK and the Zapruder film has not been altered. By the way media will never show these photographs … not allowed to. Post it on your site … devote a new section to it and I think you will get a lot of attention with my claims that deserve a look … not just words … and you can claim … “Now look at what that idiot Irey also claims. He is a wild conspiracy theorist!” But you see … I use the Obama forgery to prove the media censorship that so many still doubt. It’s not the other way around.

    I know there are a few miss-spells. Sorry I’m in a rush.

  125. avatar
    gorefan August 28, 2015 at 10:36 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: By the way media will never show these photographs … not allowed to. Post it on your site

    But there are plenty of other sites that will gladly post them for you.

    Try “Above Top Secret”. They like conspiracy theories.

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

  126. avatar
    John Reilly August 28, 2015 at 10:39 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: I know there are a few miss-spells. Sorry I’m in a rush.

    Yes. There are.

    So again, you have not called the police or FBI.

    Rather, we’ve moved on to the JFK conspiracy theories.

  127. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 28, 2015 at 10:42 am #

    There is no Obama forgery. And you are a rhetorical coward. You say none of us use our real names, you are answered by at least two people who do, and you ignore it. “Never mind,” you seem to be saying. “I know I’m just a pathetic blowhard who tries to intimidate people, accuses them of crimes they haven’t committed, and then continues to talk to them as if nothing’s happened.”

    Well, nothing hasn’t happened. Apologize, admit you were wrong about that “no-real-names” BS at the very least, or FOAD.

  128. avatar
    roadburner August 28, 2015 at 10:50 am #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:

    But as regards a forensic document examiner … we found that not one of the 225 we called would agree to examine … for pay … the Obama bc … so we had no choice but to use someone like me instead.

    are you being deliberately stupid?

    you did NOT get any one of the 225 forensic document examiners to agree to examine your presidents BC because YOU DID NOT HAVE YOUR PRESIDENTS BC TO EXAMINE, ONLY A COPY OF AN IMAGE GENERATIONS REMOVED FROM THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT AND TAKEN FROM A PDF! how could they possibly examine a document you don’t have? and quite rightly and ethically, they turned you fools down

    even if one of them had taken the job, they could not say under oath that they had examined your president’s BC – does that somehow not compute with you?

    so they relied on you, and look where that went ROTFL!

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: In the case in Bakersfield, Calif. when Judge Edmunds agreed to allow me to testify … as soon as I got on the plane from Florida to California … he released an e-mail that he had decided not to allow me to testify.
    I brought my 30″ x 40″ inch briefcase into the courtroom with Orly Taitz anyway as she tried to change the judges mind.When he still refused … she used her last 10 minutes to pull out my 30″ x 40″ cards and presented it herself.The judge had no comment and looked embarased to me that he and the courtroom got to hear it anyway.

    judges have a habit of looking embarased in court when oily is in front of them, as her incompetence and reliance on non-experts like yourself is much akin to watching someone wet their pants publicly

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Orly’s main repeated theme to the judge was that “you don’t have to be an expert” to agree with my evidence.On exiting the courtroom she got huge cheers from the spectators that heard the evidence and waited outside. Major media did not attend … but did report that we lost the case. No one heard anything about the evidence presented and I had allowed an Associated press photographer to photograph it outside before I entered the courthouse.

    that’s the point – to give expert testimony in court on a given subject, you have to be recognised and accredited as an expert in the field in which you are giving testimony, which is why you were bitchslapped by the judge and told you could not be called as an expert

    as for the `crowds’ outside, i really don’t think a handful of oily’s flying monkeys count as a crowd to be honest

    the media didn’t attend the dog and pony show, because they have better things to do than sit in a courtroom and make notes of the regurgitated conspiracy theories of the birfoons that have been heard, debunked, and dismissed many times before, including in courtrooms.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Very common for media to cover Obama this way … and as you know … my complaint long before anyone heard of Obama was that the media is controlled daily by the editors … and the media owners know of this control.
    Now I suppose your gang will go crazy with that one … and I will see more insults and stories that media does not need to get involved in this “nonsense”.Be real Dr. Conspiracy. The media should have covered the simple … no expert required … evidence.The Indianapolas Star also refused to attend the trial there … but did report that we lost without reporting the evidence presented.

    stories about small bunches of cranks doing the same things over and over don’t interest the mainstream media because it’s not news. it has some entertainment quality at first (hence why you don’t see oily on FOX news anymore – even her insane ramblings have lost their entertaiment quality and are now boring), but when the same rubbish is trotted out time and again, its no longer news nor entertainment, its just staring at someone with wet trousers who is known to be incontinent.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    We bought a full page ad that I made with many points of evidence that ran in the Washington Times more than once … but no editor in DC at the Wash. Post or the Wash. Times made any comment. I say they were not allowed to report it editorally.

    you’re trying to tell us that they accepted the full page ad full of drivel and printed them on various occasions, but then were not allowed to report on it?

    really?

    if there had been some conspiratorial news blackout on the whole subject, you wouldn’t have got the ads in there in the first place!

    that, like the subject of the verifications from the hawaii state registrar, seem to be things that you cannot get your head around and are facts you ignore because you don’t like facing reality

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Deal with that issue if you like but try to put a hold on the insults.I am just telling you the facts here.
    Paul Irey

    as has been said here numerous times, if you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t be ridiculous.

    and deal with the issue of the verifications from the hawaii state registrars office, because you seem to be running around avoiding it like the plague.

    feel free to tidy this up doc

  129. avatar
    Gerry Cathcart August 28, 2015 at 11:17 am #

    As I understand things, Mike Zullo, a detective for many years in New Jersey and additionally with at least 19,000 hours of experience with the elite Maricopa County Sheriffs Office Cold Case Posse, 5,000 of that spent creating evidence regarding the birth certificate. he has since discarded all of that copyrighted evidence and has created a completely new set of evidence that is universe shattering in importance. Detective Commander Zullo says the Xerox study does not hold water and assures that the pdf is not the original of the birth certificate. Therefore, the White House has not posted the original birth certificate from the state of Hawaii. It must be fraudulently created with the intent to deceive. Zullo’s evidence is strong and compelling and has been submitted to the Alabama Supreme Court which is testament to its validity. Not just at a lower court, but the big one. Reed Hayes said the psd had a lot of problems.

    With a resume like Zullo has, you can take it to the bank when he makes a conclusion. Don’t forget that Zullo was tasked by Sheriff Joe Arpaio to clear the president. Zullo had the integrity and personal grit to stand up to Americas Toughest Sheriff, telling him that he could not clear the President. The evidence that Zullo created prevented him from telling the Sheriff what he wanted to hear.

    This is my assessment from listening to what Zullo has to say. If I listen to others, I reserve the right to change my mind.

  130. avatar
    bob August 28, 2015 at 12:09 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    In the case in Bakersfield, Calif. when Judge Edmunds agreed to allow me to testify

    Judge England. In Sacramento. Your inattention to detail is noted.

    And the judge never said that witnesses could testify. Taitz in fact wasted much of her time arguing with the judge about whether he had permitted witnesses at the hearing, and he expressly stated that he never gave such permission. So your aversion to the truth is also noted.

    You make the extraordinary claim that the media is controlled by the government, yet your “evidence” is … hearsay from two unnamed “friends.” That might be sufficient over at WND, but readers here are going to want something a little more verifiable. (The hypocrisy of you demanding that people here use their full names while not providing the names of your sources is also noted.)

  131. avatar
    Curious George August 28, 2015 at 1:06 pm #

    I think Mr. Irey has missed his true calling. He and Doug Vogt should do a sequel of the comedy show “Seinfeld.” Wasn’t it a show about nothing? Mr. Irey has proven once and for all that he knows absolutely nothing about computer science. But he has shown that he and Joe Arpaio have a love for the antiquated typewriter. I think we all appreciate your exhibition of nothingness. You have convinced us that your expertise is in nothingness.

    Now when are you going to make the trek to the local office of the FBI and make your report? Be sure to tell us when they tell you, “there’s nothing to see here.”

  132. avatar
    Crustacean August 28, 2015 at 1:09 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: we found that not one of the 225 we called would agree to examine … for pay … the Obama bc … so we had no choice but to use someone like me instead.

    Oh, NOW I get it! You’re not an idiot; you’re a comedian! I’m really kicking myself for not getting the joke sooner. Duh, went right over my head. Nice work, though. Pure comedy gold.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: I also took the time to ask older ladies in the retirement communities in Delray Beach …

    Well, that settles it, don’t it? Ethel and Beatrice say it’s a forgery, ergo, ipso facto, quod erat demonstrandum, carpe diem, case closed!

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: The judge had no comment and looked embarased (sic) to me

    I’d bet you an ice cold beer that what you really saw was the judge looking embarrassed *for* you. But that’s only because he didn’t know it was all just comedic performance art. I won’t make that mistake again.

  133. avatar
    roadburner August 28, 2015 at 1:12 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:
    I should have added to the above that the editors are controlled by the gov. as was confessed to me by one editor and also one owner … who were both long time friends.I don’t just guess and make things up as you may think.This is a fact.One editor from a major news source in Manhattan… and one owner of a major daily newspaper in New Jersey … both told me that the gov. contols and censors media daily on any story they don’t like.

    (irrelivent bollocks edited)

    … I use the Obama forgery to prove the media censorship that so many still doubt.It’s not the other way around.

    this is utterly ridiculous

    you are claiming that the MSM is censoring the birther issue in the press, and yet YOU HAVE HAD VARIOUS FULL PAGE ADVERTS PRINTED IN THE WASHINGTON TIMES!

    if it was truly being censored, your adverts would NOT have run – period!

    this leads me to believe that your `sources’ are quite simply the voices in your head, because having your full page ads printed in a major newspaper contradicts the claim.

    yes, the government can and has told news outlets to hold a story due to issues of for example national security when a news report could jepordise an operation or investigation, but likewise, if that was the case with your birther ads, they would not have been published!

    don’t you get it? your own adverts disprove your censorship claim!

    and BTW, your failure to address the issue of the verifications sent out by the hawaii state registrar seems to indicate this is something you find too difficult to explain……well, unless you use the standard birfoon fallbacks of `he was threatened, paid off’ or something along those lines.

  134. avatar
    Whatever4 August 28, 2015 at 1:15 pm #

    Mr. Irey, have you ever done a similar analysis on a control document? Such as an image of a different Hawaii birth certificate? Seems to me any “expert” analysis must establish was is normal and how the suspected document differs from that.

    As it is, you are just analyzing your own assumptions without any basis in reality.

  135. avatar
    bob August 28, 2015 at 1:38 pm #

    It is amusing that Irey claims the media is censoring birthers, yet in the same post he acknowledges there was an AP photographer at the hearing. (The Sacramento Bee also sent a reporter.)

  136. avatar
    RanTalbott August 28, 2015 at 1:42 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: But as regards a forensic document examiner … we found that not one of the 225 we called would agree to examine … for pay … the Obama bc … so we had no choice but to use someone like me instead.

    Wrong: you also had the choice of listening to what those experts told you: that your notion of determining the authenticity of the BC by examining a heavily-processed DIGITAL PICTURE of it was just plain stupid, and would produce nonsense results.

    But you chose to do it, anyway, and made a complete ass of yourself.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: Orly’s main repeated theme to the judge was that “you don’t have to be an expert” to agree with my evidence.

    More correct would have been “You can’t be an expert and agree with your “evidence”.

  137. avatar
    Jim August 28, 2015 at 2:29 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: “But as regards a forensic document examiner … we found that not one of the 225 we called would agree to examine … for pay … the Obama bc … so we had no choice but to use someone like me instead.”

    Now that’s an outright lie, WND hired 3 experts and all 3 found no signs of forgery in the President’s BC PDF. Since Corsi was a member of your team and also the lead writer for WND on the Obama BC, either Corsi lied to you or you are lying to us now. Which is it Paul?

  138. avatar
    Curious George August 28, 2015 at 2:33 pm #

    Mr. Irey,
    As has been stated above, you and your associates are pure comedy gold. Humor can be discovered in nothingness. Thanks for the laughs this morning.

  139. avatar
    Rickey August 28, 2015 at 2:39 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY:

    I know there are a few miss-spells.Sorry I’m in a rush.

    “Misspell” is not a hyphenated word. It is spelled “misspell.” If you learn nothing else here, at least learn that.

  140. avatar
    Curious George August 28, 2015 at 2:47 pm #

    Mr. Irey,
    Please tell us what proof you have the Hawaii Verification of Birth for Obama is a forgery.

  141. avatar
    Pete August 28, 2015 at 3:23 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: But as regards a forensic document examiner … we found that not one of the 225 we called would agree to examine … for pay … the Obama bc … so we had no choice but to use someone like me instead.

    As others have done before me, sir, I call BULLSHIT!

    What you mean is this: World Nut Daily, ahem, I mean World Net Daily, HIRED (this means that a transaction involving the payment of money took place) not one but THREE different professional document examiners… not one of whom would give them the results they wanted.

    Because they couldn’t find a real forensic document examiner anywhere on the planet who would say anything other than, “Sorry, but I don’t see any evidence of forgery here,” THEN they had “no choice” but to “use someone like [you] instead.”

    That is to say, a man who is totally out of his expertise, but who will still believe unwaveringly in his own supposedly infallible competence even when he’s been publicly disproven about a dozen times already.

    Moreover, one who isn’t even bright enough to spell “Xerox,” “Indianapolis,” or “misspell.”

    You may say I’m nitpicking, but being able to spell common words correctly IS a sign of general intelligence. And when someone lacks that ability, and demonstrates that repeatedly, it’s an indication that they may not really know what they’re talking about.

    As someone else has said, if you learn nothing else here [which given your level of self-arrogance is darn likely], then, please, at least learn how to spell “misspell.”

  142. avatar
    Pete August 28, 2015 at 3:36 pm #

    Let me add something more to my last comment (which is currently in moderation).

    I think people have really been pretty nice to you, on the whole. In return, you have falsely accused innocent people of serious crimes.

    It’s just sad that you would do that.

  143. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 28, 2015 at 4:29 pm #

    Irey and Vogt did analyze other Hawaiian birth certificates and found striking similarities to the Obama certificate, and so, therefore, they concluded that they were all forgeries.

    Professionals compare a questioned document with an unquestioned document to see whether forgery can be proven. Vogt and Irey don’t use professional procedures because they don’t start with an unquestioned document; they start with a document and then decide on whether to question it or not based on whether it helps their case or not.

    It is a doomed methodology, and it explains why Vogt and Irey got it wrong, and have no chance of ever getting it right.

    Whatever4: Mr. Irey, have you ever done a similar analysis on a control document? Such as an image of a different Hawaii birth certificate?

  144. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 28, 2015 at 4:33 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Irey and Vogt did analyze other Hawaiian birth certificates and found striking similarities to the Obama certificate, and so, therefore, they concluded that they were all forgeries.

    Professionals compare a questioned document with an unquestioned document to see whether forgery can be proven. Vogt and Irey don’t use professional procedures because they don’t start with an unquestioned document; they start with a document and then decide on whether to question it or not based on whether it helps their case or not.

    It is a doomed methodology, and it explains why Vogt and Irey got it wrong, and have no chance of ever getting it right.

    That was always the funny thing. Irey and Vogt pretty much decided they would destroy birther claims by claiming all Hawaii documents that were public during that time were forged. This included the Nordyke certificates which are the basis for the numbering claims.

  145. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 28, 2015 at 4:33 pm #

    First, I am deeply skeptical about the truth of that statement. It sounds just like all the other made up stuff from birthers. (It sounds like Irey’s outright lie that Hawaii had never changed its security paper.) If it is true, then all it says is that a professional document examiner will tell you that one cannot tell the authenticity of an original document from a scan of it.

    Birthers race ahead and do what the professional tells them cannot be reliably done. That, plus bias and incompetence, lead them to spurious results.

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: But as regards a forensic document examiner … we found that not one of the 225 we called would agree to examine … for pay … the Obama bc

  146. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 28, 2015 at 4:36 pm #

    PAUL EDWARD IREY: I should have added to the above that the editors are controlled by the gov. as was confessed to me by one editor and also one owner … who were both long time friends. I don’t just guess and make things up as you may think. This is a fact. One editor from a major news source in Manhattan… and one owner of a major daily newspaper in New Jersey … both told me that the gov. contols and censors media daily on any story they don’t like.

    Hmm anonymous editors from anonymous papers owned by an anonymous government. Pretty paranoid.

  147. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 28, 2015 at 4:43 pm #

    I have Google alerts set on birthers. natural born citizen and Obama’s birth certificate. There have been pretty much one or more articles every day for the past 7 years. Today’s entry is:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/252086-donald-trump-dumps-the-constitution

    What you’re really saying is that the press is not friendly to birther nonsense; they tell the stories without your bias.

    roadburner: if it was truly being censored, your adverts would NOT have run – period!

  148. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 28, 2015 at 4:48 pm #

    That was a joke, right?

    Gerry Cathcart: This is my assessment from listening to what Zullo has to say.

  149. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 28, 2015 at 4:51 pm #

    Gerry Cathcart:
    As I understand things, Mike Zullo, a detective for many years in New Jersey and additionally with at least 19,000 hours of experience with the elite Maricopa County Sheriffs Office Cold Case Posse, 5,000 of that spent creating evidence regarding the birth certificate. he has since discarded all of that copyrighted evidence and has created a completely new set of evidence that is universe shattering in importance. Detective Commander Zullo says the Xerox study does not hold water and assures that the pdf is not the original of the birth certificate. Therefore, the White House has not posted the original birth certificate from the state of Hawaii. It must be fraudulently created with the intent to deceive. Zullo’s evidence is strong and compelling and has been submitted to the Alabama Supreme Court which is testament to its validity. Not just at a lower court, but the big one. Reed Hayes said the psd had a lot of problems.

    With a resume like Zullo has, you can take it to the bank when he makes a conclusion. Don’t forget that Zullo was tasked by Sheriff Joe Arpaio to clear the president. Zullo had the integrity and personal grit to stand up to Americas Toughest Sheriff, telling him that he could not clear the President. The evidence that Zullo created prevented him from telling the Sheriff what he wanted to hear.

    This is my assessment from listening to what Zullo has to say. If I listen to others, I reserve the right to change my mind.

    What? Your post is full of false statements. Zullo never worked as a detective. He worked for a small town that had more crossing guards than police officers and had no detectives. When he failed out of that he spent a few years as a private investigator. When he failed out of that he spent 20 years working for his family’s used car business.

    There is no proof he spent thousands of hours on this for the CCP. According to Mark Gillar, Zullo spent at least 40 hours a week as a mall security guard while spending a little time on the CCP stuff. You said he created evidence? Well that much is clear since most of what he claimed as “evidence” has long been disproved. You don’t copyright evidence. Yes he discarded all the “old evidence” because he realized every one of his previous claims was destroyed by the Xerox workflow. So now without having an answer to the Xerox workflow he has no other choice but to find new claims since his old claims were BS. “Detective Commander”? What? He holds no police rank.

    You do know that the affidavit he submitted was during an appeal of a case that has since been dismissed. You can’t present new claims during an appeal and his affidavit pretty much got tossed in the waste bin since it had no relevance to the case. Further his affidavit was filled with claims he made from personal experience that weren’t actually his but pulled from other people. This has been torn apart quite thoroughly by Frank Arduini: https://www.scribd.com/doc/116752480/The-Annotated-Zullo

    Of course the PDF isn’t the original BC no one ever said it was. It’s a scan of the certified copy of the birth certificate. No real expert is going to claim something is a forgery based on their analysis of a digital scan of the copy. Hayes has yet to provide his supposed report which has since been buried by Zullo and tossed.

    Are you really claiming Zullo spent 40 hours a week for 2 and a half years on this nonsense while also working a full time job as a mall cop? When did the guy sleep?

    There’s also the problem that the birther claims is what Joe wanted to hear. How can you enter into an “investigation” where you have already concluded that the President needed to be cleared? That assumes already that the president committed a crime. That’s backwards logic. That’s guilty before proven innocent and the opposite of the American idea of justice. Joe started with a conclusion and fit the data around it. It’s why he ignored any evidence that didn’t fit his conclusion and only drew from birther claims. It’s why he told people that he went birther to make money for his campaign. Arpaio used you and now his lackeys are going to pay the price of his abuse of power.

  150. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 28, 2015 at 5:09 pm #

    Pretty sure Gerry’s comment is satire.

  151. avatar
    Yoda August 28, 2015 at 5:17 pm #

    Gerry Cathcart:
    As I understand things, Mike Zullo, a detective for many years in New Jersey and additionally with at least 19,000 hours of experience with the elite Maricopa County Sheriffs Office Cold Case Posse, 5,000 of that spent creating evidence regarding the birth certificate. he has since discarded all of that copyrighted evidence and has created a completely new set of evidence that is universe shattering in importance. Detective Commander Zullo says the Xerox study does not hold water and assures that the pdf is not the original of the birth certificate. Therefore, the White House has not posted the original birth certificate from the state of Hawaii. It must be fraudulently created with the intent to deceive. Zullo’s evidence is strong and compelling and has been submitted to the Alabama Supreme Court which is testament to its validity. Not just at a lower court, but the big one. Reed Hayes said the psd had a lot of problems.

    With a resume like Zullo has, you can take it to the bank when he makes a conclusion. Don’t forget that Zullo was tasked by Sheriff Joe Arpaio to clear the president. Zullo had the integrity and personal grit to stand up to Americas Toughest Sheriff, telling him that he could not clear the President. The evidence that Zullo created prevented him from telling the Sheriff what he wanted to hear.

    This is my assessment from listening to what Zullo has to say. If I listen to others, I reserve the right to change my mind.

    Since I am not familiar with you, I sincerely hope that you are joking. Zullo was a cop in upstate New Jersey for about 5 years well over 20 years ago. He is not a detective and has no legal authority whatsoever.

    The only thing you said that was accurate was that he “created” what he calls evidence. FYI, evidence is not “created” it is uncovered. Zullo is a used car salesman and a con man. Nothing more, nothing less.

  152. avatar
    Crustacean August 28, 2015 at 5:32 pm #

    Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that Gerry Cathcart’s e-mail address might be 1tick@earthlink.net

    Gerry Cathcart: With a resume like Zullo has, you can take it to the bank when he makes a conclusion.

  153. avatar
    Northland10 August 28, 2015 at 5:35 pm #

    Thomas Brown:
    Pretty sure Gerry’s comment is satire.

    Okay, Which one of you is Gerry.

  154. avatar
    Dave B. August 28, 2015 at 5:53 pm #

    David Farrar’s been spreading his usual idiocy over there, with a bit of a twist: he’s proclaiming that citizenship by jus soli only applies to persons who would otherwise be stateless.
    He did the Marseillaise thing, too.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I have Google alerts set on birthers. natural born citizen and Obama’s birth certificate. There have been pretty much one or more articles every day for the past 7 years. Today’s entry is:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/252086-donald-trump-dumps-the-constitution

    What you’re really saying is that the press is not friendly to birther nonsense; they tell the stories without your bias.

  155. avatar
    Curious George August 28, 2015 at 6:24 pm #

    Gerry Cathcart

    “As I understand things, Mike Zullo, a detective for many years in New Jersey and additionally with at least 19,000 hours of experience with the elite Maricopa County Sheriffs Office Cold Case Posse, 5,000 of that spent creating evidence regarding the birth certificate. he has since discarded all of that copyrighted evidence and has created a completely new set of evidence that is universe shattering in importance. Zullo had the integrity and personal grit to stand up to Americas Toughest Sheriff, telling him that he could not clear the President. The evidence that Zullo created prevented him from telling the Sheriff what he wanted to hear. Therefore, the White House has not posted the original birth certificate from the state of Hawaii. It must be fraudulently created with the intent to deceive. Zullo’s evidence is strong and compelling and has been submitted to the Alabama Supreme Court which is testament to its validity. Not just at a lower court, but the big one. Reed Hayes said the psd had a lot of problems.

    With a resume like Zullo has, you can take it to the bank when he makes a conclusion. Don’t forget that Zullo was tasked by Sheriff Joe Arpaio to clear the president. Zullo had the integrity and personal grit to stand up to Americas Toughest Sheriff, telling him that he could not clear the President. The evidence that Zullo created prevented him from telling the Sheriff what he wanted to hear.

    This is my assessment from listening to what Zullo has to say. If I listen to others, I reserve the right to change my mind.”

    Gerry,

    Are you aware that the “Elite” Cold Case Posse is an Arizona not for profit corporation? Are you aware that the Cold Case Posse is not a law enforcement organization?

    “With a resume like Zullo has, you can take it to the bank when he makes a conclusion.”

    Speaking about banks, many people are still wondering about the total amount this so called not for profit corporation received in donations. Care to make a guess?

    “Zullo had the integrity and personal grit to stand up to Americas Toughest Sheriff, telling him that he could not clear the President. The evidence that Zullo created prevented him from telling the Sheriff what he wanted to hear.”

    Zullo had so much integrity that he ignored the Hawaii Verification of Birth for President Obama that was sent to his own Arizona Secretary of State in 2012. That evidence “clears” the President. But, the self anointed “Toughest Sheriff in America” continues to talk about his investigation of the President.

    “[Zullo] has since discarded all of that copyrighted evidence and has created a completely new set of evidence that is universe shattering in importance.”

    You mean all the old evidence that was originally used for the March 1, 2012 announcement that the President’s PDF was a forgery?

    “Zullo’s evidence is strong and compelling and has been submitted to the Alabama Supreme Court which is testament to its validity.”

    How could it be strong and compelling evidence when the old evidence submitted to the Alabama Supreme Court was, as you have written, eventually discarded?

    ” Reed Hayes said the psd had a lot of problems.” Do you mean PDF? Is Reed Hayes a computer scientist? Did Reed Hayes have access to the actual long form birth certificate or the two certified copies that were provided to Obama’s personal counsel, Judith Corley? And where is the Reed Hayes’ report? Has it too been discarded?

    “This is my assessment from listening to what Zullo has to say.”

    Listening to Mike Zullo was your first mistake.

    “… and [Zullo] has created a completely new set of evidence that is universe shattering in importance.”

    Could that be the questionable “evidence” that was reportedly used to show a bogus conspiracy theory to discredit a Federal U.S. District Court, where Arpaio has been accused of racial profiling and has admitted to being in civil contempt of court? That evidence?

    Gerry, you’re just another blind follower. Enjoy your walk in the dark.

  156. avatar
    Bonsall Obot August 28, 2015 at 6:29 pm #

    I’m not Gerry but I will subscribe to his newsletter.

  157. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 28, 2015 at 7:07 pm #

    Paul, I call full bullshit on you and your claims. So you hunted and pecked at a military typewriter for 4 years, big whoop. My cat has done longer than that and he still can’t type for beans. I on the other hand, have. I spent over half my working life actually really using a typewriter to fill out forms and type documents in various types of offices, and I have used everything from the most dog awful of poorly maintained manuals imaginable to some of the state of the art versions while I was at it. I can’t tell you how thrilled I was when word processing software came along and made it all so very pointless. The incomparable joy of mail merged forms and documents printed out clearly, beautifully, and let’s not forget cleanly on a state of the art laser jet printer. I’ve also done it the other way, and contrary to what you claim it is next to impossible to fill in a preprinted form, particularly if you have to change machines multiple times, and keep anything even remotely even or sort of consistent. The other thing being, that since the original affidavit was done at a hospital, unless they were different from any of the ones I have volunteered at, the machines they had were never in proper maintenance, and were inconsistent in kerning and spacing from machine to machine. If you really were an expert, you would know that EVERY typewriter has its own unique characteristics and that they will vary from machine to machine even in the same model. True forensic techs used to have to be able to tell what type of a typewriter a document came from and if it was a specific typewriter that did it. They do it with printers now, it’s just more techy and complicated, but real forensic examiners can and do do it. It is blindingly obvious to anyone with any experience, that the affidavit was worked on at several different times, most likely by several different hands. I base this on the sizable collection of birth and death certificates I have in my possession that all show nearly identical issues. If you were a real typist, and expert, you wold know and recognize this. You aren’t!!! The fact that other certs from that period all show the same characteristics should have been a clue to you as well that it was a consistent pattern of manufacture and not of forgery, but then that wasn’t what you wanted to see, was it?

    I will make one further point that seems to equally eluded you, well actually that you are pointedly ignoring. The fact that NO real document examiner would touch your nonsense should have told you something, like you are a fool, this is a pointless waste of time and effort, or more importantly you can’t prove validity from a multi generational copied copy. Or else you are just lying again. I’m not sure which is a better position for you, both do you no credit, but it is at least consistent.

    You keep ranting, and yes ranting is what you are doing now, that a crime has been committed, yet you have not reported it, or have you, and have been laughed at and told to run along like your good buddy Dougy?

  158. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 28, 2015 at 7:18 pm #

    Dave B.:
    David Farrar’s been spreading his usual idiocy over there, with a bit of a twist:he’s proclaiming that citizenship by jus soli only applies to persons who would otherwise be stateless.
    He did the Marseillaise thing, too.

    He avoids every time he is asked about Romney and how he claimed he’d file suit against Romney if he was the nominee but then failed to do so.

  159. avatar
    Reality Check August 28, 2015 at 8:21 pm #

    If you recall Irey touted the Ah’nee birth certificate as the real thing when WND published a redacted version before he and Vogt decided she was the forger.

    Whatever4: Mr. Irey, have you ever done a similar analysis on a control document? Such as an image of a different Hawaii birth certificate? Seems to me any “expert” analysis must establish was is normal and how the suspected document differs from that.

    As it is, you are just analyzing your own assumptions without any basis in reality.

  160. avatar
    Arthur B. August 28, 2015 at 8:29 pm #

    Dave B.: David Farrar’s been spreading his usual idiocy over there

    Hey, don’t pick on David. He’s one of my favorites.

    He belongs to a very special breed of Birthers. He loudly proclaims ex anima that the President couldn’t possibly be eligible to hold office because his lineage fails to comport with L’Esprit de la Révolution.

    But should he be cornered for the moment on that point, he’s prepared to turn on a dime and tell you why the BC is fake.

    That’s commitment to an ideal.

  161. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 28, 2015 at 8:38 pm #

    Crustacean: Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that Gerry Cathcart’s e-mail address might be …

    Nope.

  162. avatar
    Dave B. August 28, 2015 at 9:36 pm #

    That’s the Marseillaise thing I was talking about. I hear a really bad version playing in my head every time he says that. I think he’s got a fixation about “sang impur.”

    Arthur B.: He loudly proclaims ex anima that the President couldn’t possibly be eligible to hold office because his lineage fails to comport with L’Esprit de la Révolution.

  163. avatar
    Dave B. August 28, 2015 at 9:49 pm #

    It always cracks me up when birthers suggest that a typewritten document won’t show certain inconsistencies like they claim show up in the COLB. That sure ain’t the way I remember it. I figure if you’ve got a perfect typist typing perfectly, using a perfect ribbon, perfect paper and a perfect machine, you’re likely to have something kinda sorta like perfect consistency. For that typist and that machine. That time.

    Notorial Dissent: If you really were an expert, you would know that EVERY typewriter has its own unique characteristics and that they will vary from machine to machine even in the same model.

  164. avatar
    Pete August 28, 2015 at 9:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Irey and Vogt did analyze other Hawaiian birth certificates and found striking similarities to the Obama certificate, and so, therefore, they concluded that they were all forgeries.

    Professionals compare a questioned document with an unquestioned document to see whether forgery can be proven. Vogt and Irey don’t use professional procedures because they don’t start with an unquestioned document; they start with a document and then decide on whether to question it or not based on whether it helps their case or not.

    It is a doomed methodology, and it explains why Vogt and Irey got it wrong, and have no chance of ever getting it right.

    This is so well put, and so spot-on, that the full quotation deserves to be repeated.

  165. avatar
    Pete August 28, 2015 at 10:01 pm #

    Notorial Dissent: I spent over half my working life actually really using a typewriter to fill out forms and type documents in various types of offices, and I have used everything from the most dog awful of poorly maintained manuals imaginable to some of the state of the art versions while I was at it. I can’t tell you how thrilled I was when word processing software came along and made it all so very pointless

    So Paul, there you have it. Notorial Dissent has typewriter qualifications far superior to yours, and says you’re totally full of crap.

    Now will you finally admit you’re totally full of crap?

  166. avatar
    Pete August 28, 2015 at 10:02 pm #

    Reality Check: If you recall Irey touted the Ah’nee birth certificate as the real thing when WND published a redacted version before he and Vogt decided she was the forger.

    That’s one of the hilarious things about Irey.

  167. avatar
    Fuzz T Was August 28, 2015 at 10:52 pm #

    Why doesn’t the President produce one of the certified copies (he has 2 allegedly) of his BC from Hawaii and then a comparison can be conducted by any and all qualified to do so.

    Oh, I forgot, his White House Communication Director won’t allow him to mention it or have his picture taken with it or even be in the same room with it. Never mind!

  168. avatar
    Pete August 28, 2015 at 11:05 pm #

    In one of the earlier threads, I actually mentioned Irey’s earlier stating the Ah’nee certificate was genuine, and then later proclaiming it a forgery.

    I then pointed out that that gave us two Paul Ireys. One of them was (by his own characterization) a highly-qualified document expert whose opinion can be trusted on documents, and the other was a fool.

    I asked Mr. Irey which was which, but (oddly) I don’t think I ever received a reply.

  169. avatar
    Bonsall Obot August 28, 2015 at 11:28 pm #

    Fuzz T Was:
    Why doesn’t the President produce one of the certified copies (he has 2 allegedly) of his BC from Hawaii and then a comparison can be conducted by any and all qualified to do so.

    Because the President is not your jester, who leaps to perform tricks at the command of every racist in the country?
    Seriously, nothing will ever satisfy you, so why would anyone try?

  170. avatar
    bob August 28, 2015 at 11:41 pm #

    Fuzz T Was:
    Why doesn’t the President produce one of the certified copies (he has 2 allegedly) of his BC from Hawaii and then a comparison can be conducted by any and all qualified to do so.

    And what will you do if President Obama doesn’t dance to your tune? Not vote for him in 2016?

  171. avatar
    Joey August 29, 2015 at 12:10 am #

    Fuzz T Was:
    Why doesn’t the President produce one of the certified copies (he has 2 allegedly) of his BC from Hawaii and then a comparison can be conducted by any and all qualified to do so.

    Oh, I forgot, his White House Communication Director won’t allow him to mention it or have his picture taken with it or even be in the same room with it.Never mind!

    No serious birther would trust ANY document that has been in the personal possession of Barack Obama. A better suggestion is to use Hawaii Revised Statute 338-18(b) (9) whch permits inspection of a birth certificate “by a person whose right to inspect or receive a copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction.”
    In other words, get a conservative, Obama-hating judge to issue a court order for the original document and inspect it.
    That leaves Barack Obama completely out of the chain of custody.

  172. avatar
    John Reilly August 29, 2015 at 12:25 am #

    Fuzz T Was:
    Why doesn’t the President produce one of the certified copies (he has 2 allegedly) of his BC from Hawaii and then a comparison can be conducted by any and all qualified to do so.

    Oh, I forgot, his White House Communication Director won’t allow him to mention it or have his picture taken with it or even be in the same room with it.Never mind!

    The COLB was available for inspection in Chicago? Did you go look?

    Then WND ran a campaign demanding the “long form.” The President obtained two and at least one original was available for inspection by the press corps. WND’s reporter (I’m tempted to call him Les Nesman but that would be an insult to Les Nesman) said the birth certificate issue was over. And three experts hired by WND said the PDF was genuine.

    The Hawaii Department of Health has verified that the long form is genuine. They are, after all, the folks who would know.

    Two Republican secretaries of state asked for verification from Hawaii, got it, and pronounced themselves satisfied. Did you ask them to see the documents they got?

    No Representative or Senator, despite receiving endless complaining from the likes of Dr. Taitz, objected to President Obama’s election when the time came. Not even the guy from South Carolina who called the President a liar. In contrast, there were objections to George W. Bush, so it is not like objecting to the election of a President is rare. Not even Ted Cruz who single handidly stopped Congress in its tracks.

    No judge confronted with the issue in over 200 cases has had any doubt. The closest the Birthers got were a couple of judges in Alabama who thought the secretary of state had a legal obligation to ask Hawaii to certify Pres. Obama was born there. Hawaii would have done so, if asked. After all, Hawaii promptly responded when Arizona and Kansas came calling. You know Alabama, right? That’s the state that invented the concept of asking Black people, but not white people, for their papers.

    Other than there is a Black guy in the White House, exactly what is your problem?

  173. avatar
    John Reilly August 29, 2015 at 12:31 am #

    Joey: In other words, get a conservative, Obama-hating judge to issue a court order for the original document and inspect it.

    You would need a case where the requester had standing and the court had jurisdiction over the State of Hawaii. Not even Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore tried to do what you suggest. Judge Moore would have taken Hawaii’s word for it if Hawaii told the Alabama secretary of state that the President was born in Hawaii. Not even Judge Hanen who stopped the President’s immigration policy in its tracks.

    But why don’t you tell us of all the times you requested such evidence from a white person.

  174. avatar
    John Reilly August 29, 2015 at 12:35 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: He avoids every time he is asked about Romney and how he claimed he’d file suit against Romney if he was the nominee but then failed to do so.

    Because, Dr. Ken, Romney is white. Only reason. Maybe this time around he will sue Rubio, Jindahl, Cruz or Santorum. Or Trump or Bush for being married to foreigners and thus have divided loyalty.

  175. avatar
    Joey August 29, 2015 at 12:42 am #

    John Reilly: You would need a case where the requester had standing and the court had jurisdiction over the State of Hawaii.Not even Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore tried to do what you suggest.Judge Moore would have taken Hawaii’s word for it if Hawaii told the Alabama secretary of state that the President was born in Hawaii.Not even Judge Hanen who stopped the President’s immigration policy in its tracks.

    But why don’t you tell us of all the times you requested such evidence from a white person.

    I’m not a birther, so I could care less about the president’s birth certificate. I was calling a birther’s bluff. “A court of competent jurisdiction” can be a court from a different state requesting that Hawaii honor a court order. It would be up to Hawaii to decide whether they will honor an out of state court order or not.

  176. avatar
    John Reilly August 29, 2015 at 12:54 am #

    Joey: I’m not a birther, so I could care less about the president’s birth certificate. I was calling a birther’s bluff. “A court of competent jurisdiction” can be a court from a different state requesting that Hawaii honor a court order. It would be up to Hawaii to decide whether they will honor an out of state court order or not.

    My apologies, Joey. I know you are not a Birther and I could have worded that better. Nevertheless, if you could actually construct a case where the details of the President’s birth were at issue, Hawaii would issue a document which I understand is prima facie evidence. The other side would need to persuade a judge that Hawaii is lying for there to be any inspection. And Hawaii might well say no.

    I’ve written here before that the sole judge of a candidate’s bona fides is Congress. Maybe there’s an exception for a candidate who does not claim to be 35 or born here, and some states have thrown such candidates off the ballot. But it is tough to figure a scenario short of impeachment where President Obama’s nativity will ever be a legal issue. I suppose impeachment is a possible forum, but conviction is not, and certainly not on the Birther nonsense. For Pres. Obama to be impeached, I would think he’d need to be caught having an affair with Huma Abedin while selling nuclear technology to Iran.

  177. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 29, 2015 at 3:19 am #

    If you want variance in a document just have two or more people work on it taking it in and out of various typewriters in the process. Even if they are all the same model bought at the same time, which in a hospital of the era would be highly unlikely. I would suspect that the hospital documents were handled on an average three times if not more before they were finished and signed off on, and most likely by different hands each time, and I don’t say typists here, since unless things have changed markedly it was hunt and peck at best, the only typists were in the administrative offices. The documents would have been worked on and passed around as events progressed until there had been a delivery, and then could be presented to the delivering doctor to sign off on, and then would probably have gone to hospital records before being sent to the registrar as law required and they got around to it. that’s just how things got done in the times of true paper shuffling, it was called that for a reason.

    Dave B.:
    It always cracks me up when birthers suggest that a typewritten document won’t show certain inconsistencies like they claim show up in the COLB.That sure ain’t the way I remember it.I figure if you’ve got a perfect typist typing perfectly, using a perfect ribbon, perfect paper and a perfect machine, you’re likely to have something kinda sorta like perfect consistency.For that typist and that machine.That time.

  178. avatar
    Slartibartfast August 29, 2015 at 3:25 am #

    Mr. Irey,

    My name is Kevin Kesseler.

    I think you are a fool and an idiot.

    If you can prove that the Hawai’i Department of Health is not the final authority on who was or was not born in the state as well as demonstrating evidence that either the LFBC or the COLB is a “forgery”* using a scientifically sound methodology (a sine qua non for an expert) I will publicly apologize and accompany you to the FBI at a time an a place of your choosing and tell them everything they wish to know about my association with and knowledge of anti-birthers. I know all of the top anti-birthers. I’ve met both Doc C. and Foggy in person and I was involved in the OARPA birther research project. I was speaking with a lawyer who has personally litigated against Orly Taitz last weekend. I am friends with a former Congressional Research Service legislative attorney who is a personal friend of Jack Maskell. I think it is fair to say that I would be the highest ranking obot that birthers have ever had access to, let alone cooperation. If you would like to contact me to check on my bona fides Doc C will connect us (Doc, would you please send me an email and blind copy Mr. Irey on it so that he has my address but I don’t have his). I am willing to sign an affidavit swearing that I will honor that offer and that everything I just said is true under penalty of perjury.

    Will you take me up on my offer or explain to me why you choose not to?

    * Can you even explain what the term “forgery” means in this instance?

  179. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) August 29, 2015 at 4:58 am #

    Dave B.: It always cracks me up when birthers suggest that a typewritten document won’t show certain inconsistencies like they claim show up in the COLB. That sure ain’t the way I remember it. I figure if you’ve got a perfect typist typing perfectly, using a perfect ribbon, perfect paper and a perfect machine, you’re likely to have something kinda sorta like perfect consistency. For that typist and that machine. That time.

    It’s Catch-22. Had the typing somehow have been “perfect”, they would have claimed “it’s impossible for a typewriter to be perfect, therefore forgery”.

    People like Irey think because typing an “a” 1,000 times on a typewriter does not produce letters looking different, it must be the same on an old document written on one or more typewriters by one or more persons in one or more iterations, then photocopied from a curved binder (then scanned and converted to PDF), and if it isn’t, “FOGETY!”.

  180. avatar
    Yoda August 29, 2015 at 5:08 am #

    @ Kevin Kesseler-we have ranks?

  181. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 29, 2015 at 6:51 am #

    It appears that Paul Irey was up all night wasting his time, which summarizes the last few years of his life vis-a-vis birtrherism. He wrote no fewer than 19 comments for the blog, but instead of posting them as he is free to do, he replied to subscription notices in email, which does nothing more than come as an email to me, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to to continue to clean up his mistakes.

    One theme in those emails (which I only glanced at) is to ask everybody’s real name. If he keeps doing that, I’ll ban him. We have a policy here about disclosing personal information, and using the right to private speech as tool to attack someone is simply out of bounds.

    Irey also wrote something saying he is a Photoshop expert. However, the video above proves that Irey, Photoshop expert or not, was completely and utterly wrong about things he concluded. So any claim to competence was destroyed.

    I replied to each and every one of Irey’s 19 emails telling him that posting by email doesn’t work (and I have done this before). He is so oblivious to facts, that even that might not help.

  182. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 29, 2015 at 9:35 am #

    Fuzz T Was:
    Why doesn’t the President produce one of the certified copies (he has 2 allegedly) of his BC from Hawaii and then a comparison can be conducted by any and all qualified to do so.

    Oh, I forgot, his White House Communication Director won’t allow him to mention it or have his picture taken with it or even be in the same room with it.Never mind!

    He already showed the press pool. What do you expect him to do get on a bus and personally visit every American?

  183. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 29, 2015 at 9:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Irey also wrote something saying he is a Photoshop expert. However, the video above proves that Irey, Photoshop expert or not, was completely and utterly wrong about things he concluded. So any claim to competence was destroyed.

    lol a photoshop expert? He can hardly figure out how to reply to comments on a blog.

  184. avatar
    alg August 29, 2015 at 9:51 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It appears that Paul Irey was up all night wasting his time, which summarizes the last few years of his life vis-a-vis birtrherism….

    Ain’t it the truth? This is a common malady for conspiracy nuts. They get so completely possessed by their beliefs it overwhelms everything they do. It becomes an essential part of their self-worth without which they have nothing else.

    Of course, I’ve yet to see Mr. Irey, or any birther for that matter, explain away the official verifications from the State of Hawaii that attest to the authenticity and accuracy of the President’s LFBC. Even if Mr. Irey were the world’s leading expert on electronically produced documents, he’d be completely unable to address that irreconcilable contradiction to the birther meme.

  185. avatar
    Pete August 29, 2015 at 10:26 am #

    That’s the thing about Paul Irey.

    You tell him he can’t post to a blog by replying to the notification email, he doesn’t get it.

    You tell him how to properly spell “misspell,” he doesn’t get it.

    Either he’s just not reading replies, or he’s paying no attention to them, or he’s simply incapable of learning anything.

    And yet, in his own mind, the guy still thinks he’s a genius.

    The other thing is, he demands that people reply to his total BS (and if they don’t, that supposedly implies his BS is real), and yet — when you ask the guy to answer perfectly valid criticisms of his own qualifications, all you get is the sound of crickets chirping.

    Chirp. Chirp. Chirp.

  186. avatar
    Lupin August 29, 2015 at 10:55 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It appears that Paul Irey was up all night wasting his time, which summarizes the last few years of his life vis-a-vis birtrherism. He wrote no fewer than 19 comments for the blog, but instead of posting them as he is free to do, he replied to subscription notices in email, which does nothing more than come as an email to me, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to to continue to clean up his mistakes.

    One theme in those emails (which I only glanced at) is to ask everybody’s real name. If he keeps doing that, I’ll ban him. We have a policy here about disclosing personal information, and using the right to private speech as tool to attack someone is simply out of bounds.

    Irey also wrote something saying he is a Photoshop expert. However, the video above proves that Irey, Photoshop expert or not, was completely and utterly wrong about things he concluded. So any claim to competence was destroyed.

    I replied to each and every one of Irey’s 19 emails telling him that posting by email doesn’t work (and I have done this before). He is so oblivious to facts, that even that might not help.

    Does he do this because he is a total idiot, or because he’s afraid of getting his *ss handed over to him here?

  187. avatar
    Bonsall Obot August 29, 2015 at 10:56 am #

    How does a person’s name affect the truth value of her or his statements? Not the reliability, the truth value? Answer that question, Irey.
    See, what you say isn’t wrong because Paul Irey is A Idiot; its wrong because it’s demonstrably false.

  188. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 29, 2015 at 10:57 am #

    It’s not that Irey wants you to reply to his BS, he wants you to agree with it. There is a subtle but distinct difference there. He isn’t looking for discussion or criticism, he wants absolute unconditional agreement and adulation, which he IS NEVER GOING TO GET!!!! And he’s real butthurt that it isn’t happening here, or anywhere else for that matter.

  189. avatar
    Northland10 August 29, 2015 at 11:23 am #

    Bonsall Obot:
    I’m not Gerry but I will subscribe to his newsletter.

    Funny you should mention that it’s not you.

  190. avatar
    Pete August 29, 2015 at 11:32 am #

    To Notorial Dissent:

    Au contraire: Irey gets agreement from the mindless birther stooges over at some place like Birther Report.

    The only problem is, such agreement isn’t what we might call real. While Irey may not be smart enough to spell “Indianapolis” correctly, he’s probably smart enough to know that a brain-damaged chicken would be hailed as a “expert” over at BR, if the chicken claimed to have expertise that showed Obama’s birth certificate was a fake.

    That being the case, the agreement of the people over at BR doesn’t mean anything. It’s useless. It provides no validation whatsoever to Mr. Irey’s hoped-for status as an expert.

    So it seems to me that Mr. Irey is likely on a futile quest to somehow convince about the only real people who aren’t automatic-agreers, who are actually interested enough to follow the conversation. That would be us, here, at this blog.

    In order to do that, though, Irey would have to actually have some decent evidence that his claims are true. I for one would be happy enough to believe Irey’s claims, if there was good evidence of them being true. From what I’ve seen of Dr. Conspiracy, I think he would be willing to acknowledge solid claims as well. Kevin Kesseler, above, sounds willing to believe solid claims. And I’m sure these aren’t the only ones.

    Irey probably realizes, at some level, that there are people here (and maybe quite a few people) who might be persuaded by good evidence… and he imagines that he has it.

    Irey’s problem, though, is that he’s not an expert, and there’s not the slightest indication of any truth to his claims, except for his own sincerity in believing them…

    Which to someone who’s looking for actual evidence, is precisely worthless.

    Irey thus appears to be caught in an irresistible but hopeless quest, which he can’t abandon because of his false but unshakable belief in his own rightness and expertise.

  191. avatar
    Joey August 29, 2015 at 12:29 pm #

    John Reilly: My apologies, Joey.I know you are not a Birther and I could have worded that better. Nevertheless, if you could actually construct a case where the details of the President’s birth were at issue, Hawaii would issue a document which I understand is prima facie evidence.The other side would need to persuade a judge that Hawaii is lying for there to be any inspection.And Hawaii might well say no.

    I’ve written here before that the sole judge of a candidate’s bona fides is Congress. Maybe there’s an exception for a candidate who does not claim to be 35 or born here, and some states have thrown such candidates off the ballot.But it is tough to figure a scenario short of impeachment where President Obama’s nativity will ever be a legal issue.I suppose impeachment is a possible forum, but conviction is not, and certainly not on the Birther nonsense.For Pres. Obama to be impeached, I would think he’d need to be caught having an affair with Huma Abedin while selling nuclear technology to Iran.

    No problem, John.
    Yeah, my other “bluff call” for birthers is to point out that the congressional Republicans who investigate and hold hearings on everything Obama have never even held a sub-committee hearing on the President’s natural born citizenship. Congressional committee chairpersons have congressional subpoena power and, as I understand it, a congressional subpoena has the force of a court order.
    I could see Hawaii responding favorably to a congressional subpoena for a copy of the president’s Certificate of Live Birth.
    The other venue where eligibility challenges can pllay out is the state ballot eligibility challenges, either in state courts or through state election boards. I had no problem with birthers filing those challenges. They were all adjudicated in the president’s favor. I believe that there were eligibility challenges heard in 22 states in 2012. Conceivably, state courts/boards could rule a candidate ineligible in enough states to make it impossible to reach 270 electoral votes.
    For example, Roger Calero of the Socialist Workers Party was born in Nicaragua to non-American parents. He was allowed on the ballot in about five states and there needed to be a substitute candidate on the ballot for that Party in about five other states.

  192. avatar
    Bonsall Obot August 29, 2015 at 12:40 pm #

    Northland10: Funny you should mention that it’s not you.

    Was I suspected?

  193. avatar
    Rickey August 29, 2015 at 1:43 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: He avoids every time he is asked about Romney and how he claimed he’d file suit against Romney if he was the nominee but then failed to do so.

    He also failed to respond in the older thread where he claimed that Obama ordered that Judge Schmidt in Brooklyn be fired because he was going to order a trial (presumably in one of Strunk’s cases).

    I pointed out to him that Supreme Court judges in New York are elected and cannot be fired, whether by the president or anyone else. In fact, Judge Schmidt retired and took a lucrative job as a mediator.

    And Strunk was never going to get a trial. Strunk has filed at least 14 different lawsuits in New York State over the years and not one of them ever went to trial. Strunk is to lawsuits what Irey is to PDFs – incompetent.

  194. avatar
    bob August 29, 2015 at 2:35 pm #

    alg: Of course, I’ve yet to see Mr. Irey, or any birther for that matter, explain away the official verifications from the State of Hawaii that attest to the authenticity and accuracy of the President’s LFBC.Even if Mr. Irey were the world’s leading expert on electronically produced documents, he’d be completely unable to address that irreconcilable contradiction to the birther meme.

    There are birthers out there who do do that (Edge919 springs to mind). Essentially, their argument is a convoluted deconstruction of the verbiage contained in the verification — that it doesn’t really state what it plainly states.

    Others argue that the verification only verifies the existence of the data in Hawaii’s records, and not its accuracy. And, duh: that is true for every single birth certificate; it is, in fact, the purpose of a birth certificate: to record the existence of someone else certifying that the birth occurred. Otherwise, obstetricians would be hauled into courts, the DMV, bars, etc., on a continual basis.

  195. avatar
    Arthur B. August 29, 2015 at 2:40 pm #

    bob: Otherwise, obstetricians would be hauled into courts, the DMV, bars, etc., on a continual basis.

    Not to mention the fact that by the time an individual is ready for a presidential run, there’s a good chance that there’s not a single living individual with personal knowledge of the candidate’s birth data.

  196. avatar
    Northland10 August 29, 2015 at 3:23 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Was I suspected?

    I could not possibly comment. 🙂

  197. avatar
    Slartibartfast August 29, 2015 at 3:40 pm #

    You are always suspect.

    We’re watching you, Family Liberty Patriot.

    *point to my eyes*

    *glare*

    *point to your eyes*

    Bonsall Obot: Was I suspected?

  198. avatar
    Bonsall Obot August 29, 2015 at 3:41 pm #

    Northland10: I could not possibly comment.

    Dude, give me some credit; my satire is not nearly as subtle and and is much ruder. And for all my faults, I’ve never tried to post here or at TFB under a name that doesn’t obviously tie back to this one.
    EDIT: as Slarti demonstrated while I was posting…

  199. avatar
    Slartibartfast August 29, 2015 at 3:54 pm #

    If you don’t know, then you don’t need to know.

    Don’t worry, the Bio-monitoring tracking device I implanted when we shook hands in Philly should be kicking in right about now…

    What were you asking?

    Yoda:
    @ Kevin Kesseler-we have ranks?

    Bonsall Obot aka Family Liberty Patriot,

    Is your sarcasm foundation avatar at the Fogbow meant to be ironic?

    [you can decide for yourself whether that sentence is meant to be sarcastic or ironic—I’m just trying to sew confusion on the meta level since Mr. Irey seems unlikely to learn how to behave like a decent, honest individual anytime soon.]

  200. avatar
    bob August 29, 2015 at 4:09 pm #

    Arthur B.: Not to mention the fact that by the time an individual is ready for a presidential run, there’s a good chance that there’s not a single living individual with personal knowledge of the candidate’s birth data.

    Much of birtherdom relies on defaming the dead.

  201. avatar
    Slartibartfast August 29, 2015 at 4:17 pm #

    If Mr. Irey could convince me that the opinion of the Hawai’i DoH is not controlling and that there was scientific evidence of an actual crime (such as forgery) I would gladly do everything I could to bring the perpetrators to justice. My offer is entirely sincere and I am offering the type of verifications that birthers in general (affidavit) and Mr. Irey in particular (my real name) have demanded. If he is unwilling to take me up on it, it begs the question of “why?”

    And my name is “Slarti”. The other is just a meat space sock puppet of mine. Otherwise it would get confusing as Doc and I share the same first name.

    Pete: In order to do that, though, Irey would have to actually have some decent evidence that his claims are true. I for one would be happy enough to believe Irey’s claims, if there was good evidence of them being true. From what I’ve seen of Dr. Conspiracy, I think he would be willing to acknowledge solid claims as well. Kevin Kesseler, above, sounds willing to believe solid claims. And I’m sure these aren’t the only ones.

    Doc,

    Thanks for providing Mr. Irey with my email address. A couple of small points I wanted to correct if Mr. Irey hasn’t already run away. My name is spelled with an “E” before the “L” (you misspelled it in the body of the email) and my salutation is “Dr.” not “Mr.”. I wouldn’t want Mr. Irey to be confused.

  202. avatar
    Northland10 August 29, 2015 at 4:33 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Dude, give me some credit; my satire is not nearly as subtle and and is much ruder.

    Point taken…

  203. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 29, 2015 at 4:43 pm #

    Did you miss-spell that?

    Slartibartfast: sew

  204. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 29, 2015 at 4:45 pm #

    Sorry about that. I failed to pay close attention to detail.

    Slartibartfast: My name is spelled with an “E” before the “L” (you misspelled it in the body of the email) and my salutation is “Dr.” not “Mr.”. I wouldn’t want Mr. Irey to be confused.

  205. avatar
    Slartibartfast August 29, 2015 at 4:48 pm #

    Eye spill prefect.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Did you miss-spell that?

  206. avatar
    y_p_w August 29, 2015 at 5:51 pm #

    Dave B.:
    It always cracks me up when birthers suggest that a typewritten document won’t show certain inconsistencies like they claim show up in the COLB.That sure ain’t the way I remember it.I figure if you’ve got a perfect typist typing perfectly, using a perfect ribbon, perfect paper and a perfect machine, you’re likely to have something kinda sorta like perfect consistency.For that typist and that machine.That time.

    Sure wasn’t my manual typewriter. One of the bigger problems was the fabric ribbon. I remember looking close up and I could see the effect of the fabric texture on the type imprint. Good luck trying every last detail perfect, but that’s of course not possible.

  207. avatar
    Bonsall Obot August 29, 2015 at 6:08 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    Is your sarcasm foundation avatar at the Fogbow meant to be ironic?

    If I ever knew, I’ve forgotten.

  208. avatar
    y_p_w August 29, 2015 at 8:21 pm #

    bob: There are birthers out there who do do that (Edge919 springs to mind). Essentially, their argument is a convoluted deconstruction of the verbiage contained in the verification — that it doesn’t really state what it plainly states.

    Others argue that the verification only verifies the existence of the data in Hawaii’s records, and not its accuracy. And, duh: that is true for every single birth certificate; it is, in fact, the purpose of a birth certificate: to record the existence of someone else certifying that the birth occurred. Otherwise, obstetricians would be hauled into courts, the DMV, bars, etc., on a continual basis.

    Certainly isolated cases exist where birth records have been compromised. We have that unique case of Sun Yat-Sen getting a suspect birth certificate over 100 years ago. There’s those cases of the Texas birth records filed by fraudulent midwives who didn’t actually attend the births. There was a case in New Jersey where some county clerk employees faked records on official forms.

    However, the default isn’t to assume that there’s something faulty about a birth records. The State Dept doesn’t automatically assume that a birth certificate they receive is faulty. They have specific known cases where they have reason to suspect a problem. That hasn’t been the case for Hawaii – certainly not since it became a state.

    Besides that – the OB who delivered my kid was in his late 60s. I’m not even sure he’ll be around by the time my kid is an adult.

  209. avatar
    bob August 29, 2015 at 9:10 pm #

    Exactly: Birth certificate fraud is possible, even inevitable. But previous instances of birth certificate fraud does not show that any given birth certificate is, in fact, fraudulent.

  210. avatar
    y_p_w August 29, 2015 at 9:48 pm #

    bob:
    Exactly: Birth certificate fraud is possible, even inevitable. But previous instances of birth certificate fraud does not show that any given birth certificate is, in fact, fraudulent.

    It kind of defeats the purpose of a government-recorded birth record and certificate if it doesn’t stand on its own. I’m sure that medical professionals don’t particularly want to answer whether or not they were present at a birth decades ago. And what doctor would have the perfect memory to remember everything. In that case it would depend on the medical records, and couldn’t those theoretically be suspect, tampered, damaged, or destroyed (typical after several years)?

    A governmental record of birth is supposed to be part of a stable, secure, and accurate repository of information. In general it will be recorded and filed quickly. We rely on them as documentary evidence because it’s a heck of a lot better than any alternative.

  211. avatar
    Slartibartfast August 30, 2015 at 1:51 am #

    I’ve completely lost track of whether my response is supposed to be sarcastic, snarky or dryly sardonic.

    I guess Mr. Irey doesn’t have enough integrity to admit that he can’t take me up on my offer. What were the odds? (That probably qualifies as dryly sardonic.)

    Bonsall Obot: If I ever knew, I’ve forgotten.

  212. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 30, 2015 at 5:06 am #

    I find myself, not oddly, in the same position as Pete and Slarti on this, in that I would be more than willing, happy even to review and “real” evidence that Mr Irey, or anyone else for that matter, happened to come up with. The problem is that anyone who starts from the premise that a document is a forgery, and as a publicly stated premise mind you, specifically that a multi-generational copy is a forgery hasn’t got any. A copy is a copy is a copy, and while you can infer things from that copy, you can make NO definitive statements of validity or authenticity, there is just no way. Mr Irey never said he wondered, since I think deep down he knew, why the real document examiners slammed the literal or figurative doors in their faces, but what they were asking to be discerned from the aforesaid multi-generational copy just isn’t within their CV, maybe a fortune teller next time would be more appropriate. The rest of his claims are as equally thin on reality as are his claims to expertise. Four years as probably a hunt and peck typist in the AF decades ago, and a copier salesman who can’t spell the name of one of the biggest manufacturers, or that a copier could create a PDF, doesn’t speak of competence or knowledge. So, sorry, no Mr Irey, I, nor more importantly it appears anyone else whose opinion matters take your “opinions” and “musings” seriously. The problem facing you is that you have to come up with something that rises above the level of fantasy or outright fabrication, and your really really wishing or believing it is so doesn’t cut it. It doesn’t cut it as far as I am concerned, and more importantly it doesn’t cut it in a court of law, where it really counts.

  213. avatar
    Reality Check August 30, 2015 at 8:01 am #

    I laugh every time I read a Birther claim to be a Photoshop expert as if it had anything to do with determining the validity of President Obama’s birth certificate. That was pretty much Mara Zebest’s entire resume.There is no evidence that the PDF was ever touched by any Adobe product. As a matter of fact there are three images of the LFBC and there is no explanation for them that holds water other than the fact that there was an original paper document and that they were images of an original as in the case of the PDF image and Guthrie’s cell phone photo or a photograph of a copy as in the case of J.Scott Applewhite’s photo.

    This was the principle conclusion of John Woodman’s book before he knew anything about Xerox WorkCentre’s. Any theory of a forgery would have to account for three independent images of the same paper document.

    Irey’s typography arguments have been thoroughly discredited. He doesn’t even come close to using scientifically sound methodology in his analyses. Nothing he has produced is even worthy of discussion.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Irey also wrote something saying he is a Photoshop expert. However, the video above proves that Irey, Photoshop expert or not, was completely and utterly wrong about things he concluded. So any claim to competence was destroyed.

  214. avatar
    Reality Check August 30, 2015 at 8:28 am #

    Irey can’t figure out how to post a comment on a WordPress blog? What a maroon. 😆

  215. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 30, 2015 at 10:16 am #

    He doesn’t seem to know how copiers work either, so why should this be a great surprise.

  216. avatar
    alg August 30, 2015 at 10:34 am #

    Reality Check:
    I laugh every time I read a Birther claim to be a Photoshop expert as if it had anything to do with determining the validity of President Obama’s birth certificate.

    So I have my doctorate degree in Photoshop Analysis and have successfully completed the International Photoshop certification exam. My doctoral dissertation was on “Remote Analysis of Electronic Document Imagery – Examining PDFs from a Distance After Consuming Large Quantities of Italian Grappa.” It was published in the AJAIA (American Journal of Anomalous Image Artifacts). Armed with my official certifications, I am now qualified to be an “expert.” Look out world!

    🙂

  217. avatar
    Pete August 30, 2015 at 2:30 pm #

    alg: It was published in the AJAIA (American Journal of Anomalous Image Artifacts). Armed with my official certifications, I am now qualified to be an “expert.” Look out world!

    Ahem. Please allow me to point out that still owe your $550 bri… I mean, publication fee, to my illustrious websi… I mean journal, for publishing your claptr…, er, your thought-leading peer-reviewed work.

    Please remit payment at once, or I shall have to 404 the page and publicly badmouth you on Birther Report.

  218. avatar
    Keith August 30, 2015 at 3:01 pm #

    Pete: Please remit payment at once, or I shall have to 404 the page and publicly badmouth you on Birther Report.

    I’m his literary agent. Can you accept payment from my his some random hacked Ashley Madison account?

  219. avatar
    Pete August 30, 2015 at 6:23 pm #

    Sir, we accept payment from any source. Cash, however, is preferred.

  220. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 30, 2015 at 8:44 pm #

    From Paul Irey (via email):

    Midnight Sat 12:02 am… Dr. Con … I’m up to my neck right now with a sick person who needs constant care with her heart failure.

    Can I get in my e-mail only … any discussion about how the extra row happened … I’ll feel lucky if I get too busy with that one.

    But I can’t just stay online all day like I did beginning at 6 am this morning and debate while I read mostly insults.

    The bottom line about me is that I am a 26 year user of Adobe Photoshop since it was in beta test in Dec. …1989 and the manual was only ten pages typed on one side.

    I am a 30 year user of Macintosh … and got my first copy of Adobe Illustrator in the summer of 1987 … the week it was released.

    I have done nothing else but use Macs and Adobe software every day to create graphic pages and can get customers to testify to that fact.

    The smoking gun evidence is my work also.

    I have worked constantly using Macintosh for graphic jobs for the last 30 years … after a 25 year history of doing everything on drawing boards and owning my own company with 60 employees on a 24 hours service … in it’s peak.

    Montgomery Ward … Acme Markets … Hearst publishing … etc. … my company produced thousands of pages of advertising.

    All the Adobe users know what the “Unsharp Mask” filter looks like and how it’s used.

    This filter is the one that put the white halo on the Obama bc … because the forger flattened the image and then used the filer. That filter should have been used only on the layer where she placed her letters. Huge mistake … because it was combined with the hash mark background that is supposed to show only green paper … and no white.

    There is absolutely no doubt of that … and many thousands of Adobe Photoshop users could testify to that hard fact.

    The Obama birth certificate was artificially condensed by a photocopier and mistakenly used as is to accomplish the forgery.

    The forger added the extra vertical row of hash mark art on the right side to allow the final document size to reach the 8 1/2″ wide to match all the other bc’s.

    She could have easily just stretched the document in Photoshop … but did not realize that it was distorted … so the extra row was her answer.

    She would have used the existing condensed pages to measure for her grid … red guidelines any spacing you want in Photoshop … placed vertically on the screen as a guide to use to see where to place the typed letters.

    The smoking gun proof on Scribt tells it all.

    All Obama got was 2 copies of a bad forgery … full of errors … that was the wrong size in width and has the hashmark background included … on a plain computer paper print-out that is white on the back … not green.

    There is no long form bc for Obama that is actually printed on security paper.

    There never has been and never will be.

    Alvin Onaka and Lorretta fuddy lied when they signed that they witnessed the copy being made.

    I say that the Obama long form is a completely created Adobe Photoshop job … and you don’t have to be an expert using this software to realize that fact.

    This so called document never existed as a 1961 paper file of birth certificate information typed on paper.

    Other actual real birth certificates of the era … probably in a single binder … were copied to provide material for the forgery.

    The documents are locked in and can not be removed.

    All of that material was distorted while being copied on an 11″ x 17″ photo copier with slipping feed rollers … and those condensed copies were scanned and entered into a computer and manipulated by eye … mouse or pen tablet manipulation … to piece together this fake document.

    Because the forger also made one forgery for herself and gave it to Corsi … I was able to confirm that her sources of material were also condensed to the same degree as Obama’s bc … but instead of including a hash mark background in her page like she did for Obama … she took it to the Hawaiian dept. of health to be copied to security paper and got the official seal impressed on it. But the official perfectly round seal was impressed on a condensed document … meaning that the stamped original was not from 1961 … in that era it could not have ever touched a photocopier to be condensed that way.

    Both documents are condensed.

    You guys are toast.

    In a sane world Obama would be toast also. Don’t get excited Secret Service … it’s a common phrase.

    And please take note Secret Service … the rumor that Obama had no birth certificate in 2007 started with a bet … and then a leak from your fine organization.

    So when I first heard that one now existed in 2011 … I knew this had to be a forgery … before I even looked at it.

    I know you love that story Dr. Con … so I repeated it for you.

    You know what I mean …

    At least I gave you guys a shot to explain the extra row of hash marks … but even if you had … the document is still proven to be a Photoshop job. It’s just that the forger made so many serious mistakes and got Obama, Abercrombie, Fuddy and Onaka … and herself … in big trouble … and even poor Savanna who got her shot at fame … because of a little bitty lie that she felt the seal all by herself. Well Abercrombie may be OK … because the lynchpin in the plot … Loretta Fuddy may be the only one who could testify that he ordered the birth certificate made for his friend … Barack Obama.

    On your site I was just directly asking a question that I knew no one could answer but at least I tried.

    The only thing I want sent to me from now until I go to the FBI … is a damn good reason for the extra hash mark along the right side of Obama’s bc.

    I really don’t expect you to send me anything … and I will not be visiting your fake website to talk about the Obama fake birth certificate again.

    You all think like little soldiers from the same army.

    Try Cuba … they need more disinformation experts there now … and you will still have something to do … as a team I mean.

    Disinformation works better there … because you can get the police to arrest your dissenters.

    Goodbye.

    Paul Edward Irey

  221. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 30, 2015 at 8:49 pm #

    But birthers do not know how the Xerox machines separate foreground from background images, and how that works. Their lack of knowledge leads them to erroneous conclusions. Now riddle me this:

    Why does Adobe Acrobat have a setting for “halo removal” from their Optimize PDF function (that also does a form of MRC compression)? It’s because the process creates halos. Did you know that? If you had been reading my in 2012 blog you would.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/12/california-electoral-vote-certification-forged/

    Paul Irey: All the Adobe users know what the “Unsharp Mask” filter looks like and how it’s used.

  222. avatar
    Pete August 30, 2015 at 10:41 pm #

    Wow.

    Irey is just pathetically delusional and self-deceived. That’s it, period.

    Just like he doesn’t get that he can’t post to this blog by replying to the notification email (which should be a pretty d*mn simple concept to grasp), he doesn’t get that using Photoshop for decades doesn’t mean he has the SLIGHTEST understanding of how a program-driven Xerox WorkCentre produces an image, and whether or not it’s capable of producing Obama’s PDF.

    As I said earlier, when I call Irey an incompetent, delusional quack, that’s not an insult. It’s an informed, and in this case, accurate evaluation.

    It’s almost like saying the sky is blue.

  223. avatar
    Joey August 30, 2015 at 11:31 pm #

    Has anybody noticed President Obama, former Governor Abercrombie, the deceased Loretta Fuddy, Hawaii Registrar Onaka or Savannah Guthrie of NBC being in “big trouble?”
    Paul Irey seems to believe that they are, from four years ago!

  224. avatar
    Bonsall Obot August 30, 2015 at 11:50 pm #

    I will not be visiting your fake website to talk about the Obama fake birth certificate again

    Liar.

  225. avatar
    RanTalbott August 31, 2015 at 12:43 am #

    Notorial Dissent: Just for my own curiosity, does the JBIG2 character duplication thingy happen on other types of machines or is it strictly a Xerox issue.

    Xerox is the only company I’ve heard about having it, but it’s not my specialty, so it’s quite possible that it’s hit others without my knowledge.

    It’s crucial to understand that, although it’s a “standard”, JBIG2 is not as rigidly defined as, say, an encryption mechanism or the format of data on an interchangeable tape or diskette. In particular, the standard says that, for lossy compression of symbols (which are roughly, but not exactly, the same as text characters), “It is up to the encoder to decide when when two bitmaps are essentially the same or essentially different”.

    That means that the people writing the software for each particular implementation of JBIG2 have the freedom to choose how close a match is “close enough”, and it’s virtually certain that they’ll make some choices different from other implementers’.

    There’s a compression advantage to be gained from allowing “looser” matches (you wind up with fewer symbols for each character), so the implementers have to balance that against the risk of character substitution of the sort that hit Xerox. My guess is that you’ll find similar errors in everybody’s implementations, but with lower frequency because others set their “match” threshold a little higher. They might also have included some special-case code to handle situations like lower-case “l” vs numeral “1”, and upper-case “O” vs numeral “0” more stringently. Or some may have left that out because it would slow down the analysis.

    Trade-offs are as essential as breathing to engineers, and occasionally we make them just as thoughtlessly 😉

  226. avatar
    bob August 31, 2015 at 12:50 am #

    Alvin Onaka and Loretta Faddy lied! So says Paul Irey (who?).

    No further proof needed — Irey said it, that settles it.

    Welcome, President Biden!

  227. avatar
    Notorial Dissent August 31, 2015 at 1:12 am #

    I don’t know, and don’t care for that matter, if Irey is or isn’t an “expert” using Photowhatever, personally I doubt it, given his general incompetence in all the other fields he has claimed expertise at.

    I have to agree with Pete here, pathetically delusional is the best and only appropriate description. Just total flip out from reality.

    When he runs out of anything else crazy, he just starts making it up out of whole cloth, which really adds to his claims of veracity.

    He totally ignores that the state of Hawaii has repeatedly “officially” verified the information, that there was an original signed and sealed copy presented at the White House press conference, that was examined, touched, and photographed by the people there, yet he claims an electronic multi generational copy was actually created by Photoshop, when in fact it was and has been provably, as well as verified by the actual creators, shown to have been created by a (specific)Xerox copier process and sequence. To him, known and provable copier artifacts are not what they seem, but evidence of forgery. This says a great deal about his scientific method.

    Several very talented people proved by actual experimentation and knowledge of process how the copier artifacts got there, if Mr Irey is such an accomplished master of Photoshop, then let him produce his own copy to show how it was really done. Theories are all nice and wonderful, but until you can prove that is how it was done, you, like Mr Irey, gots nada.

  228. avatar
    Curious George August 31, 2015 at 1:16 am #

    Paul Edward Irey,

    “The only thing I want sent to me from now until I go to the FBI … is a damn good reason for the extra hash mark along the right side of Obama’s bc.”

    When you finally go to the FBI to tell them your yarn, make sure that you also take a copy of the certified Hawaii Verification of Birth that was sent the Arizona Secretary of State (and to other states) and have them define for you what the term prima facie evidence means. All of the birth certificate forgery nonsense that you and Vogt and Volin and Gillar and Zullo and Birther Report promote is just that…NONSENSE! You reached the end of the trail way back in 2012. You’re just too consumed with your agenda to realize that it was over 3 years ago.

    Mr. Irey, I think it’s time for you to dedicate more of your time to those who are important to you and admit that you have nothing that will trump the Hawaii Verification of Birth. Your cause has come to an end. You tried and you failed. Move on with your life.

  229. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) August 31, 2015 at 4:17 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy (quoting Irey): the rumor that Obama had no birth certificate in 2007 started with a bet … and then a leak from your fine organization.

    So when I first heard that one now existed in 2011 … I knew this had to be a forgery … before I even looked at it.

    There. He admits it himself. He believed a “rumor” so firmly that he “knew” the BC had to be a forgery.
    Defendant admits to confirmation bias, no further questions, your honour.

  230. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 31, 2015 at 7:51 am #

    He’s always said that. Early on Mr. Irey was interviewed on the RC Radio show (I was a caller on that show) and he told the Secret Service story. Around that time there was a rumor going around the the Secret Service vetted presidential candidates. I think he tied this vetting rumor to what someone told him about their not supporting Obama and then some kind of silence as proof that Obama wasn’t born in the US. It reminds me of Michael Shrimpton’s lunch with the CIA where he suggested they check Obama’s DNA. The fact that they didn’t get back with him indicated to him that they had done the test and that the results said Obama wasn’t related to his parents.

    The Magic M (not logged in): There. He admits it himself. He believed a “rumor” so firmly that he “knew” the BC had to be a forgery.

  231. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 31, 2015 at 8:00 am #

    Mr. Irey is off the rational playing field. He thinks the Secret Service knows Obama is ineligible, he thinks the media is in on it, he thinks courts are in on the conspiracy and he holds everyone who doesn’t believe in his ideas guilty of conspiracy. The fact that Hawaii backs the certificate doesn’t mean anything to someone who thinks that everyone is in on the conspiracy.

    Notorial Dissent: He totally ignores that the state of Hawaii has repeatedly “officially” verified the information,

  232. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 31, 2015 at 8:02 am #

    Hmm this is a fake website? I didn’t know this site didn’t exist. If irey is still reading this what’s taking you so long to go to the FBI sh*t or get off the pot already.

  233. avatar
    alg August 31, 2015 at 8:41 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater:
    Hmm this is a fake website? I didn’t know this site didn’t exist. If irey is still reading this what’s taking you so long to go to the FBI sh*t or get off the pot already.

    Yes, this is a fake website. I know because I photoshopped it! I used my graduate education in photoshop to forge this blog. Don’t believe me? Count the number of green lines on the security paper background and you’ll see. It’s really rather obvious. Just don’t tell Doc!

    Come to think of it – Doc doesn’t exist either. I photoshopped him as well!
    🙂

  234. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 31, 2015 at 9:36 am #

    For those of you who don’t already know, the background on this web site is fake. This is what it really looks like:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/BasketWeave2.jpg

    alg: Yes, this is a fake website. I know because I photoshopped it! I used my graduate education in photoshop to forge this blog. Don’t believe me? Count the number of green lines on the security paper background and you’ll see.

  235. avatar
    The Magic M August 31, 2015 at 10:32 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Around that time there was a rumor going around the the Secret Service vetted presidential candidates.

    Must’ve missed that one. I guess it quickly was stricken from birther lore because complaining “nobody vets the candidates!” was a better propaganda shtick. Besides, it would not make sense to claim there’s a “secret” vetting process and that those responsible for it are somehow “in on it”, too.