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No immunity for Zullo

Stephen Lemons is on hand for the resumption of hearings in the contempt of court proceeding against Joe Arpaio and some of his employees in the Melendres v. Arpaio lawsuit. You can follow Lemons’ updates on Twitter via the hash tag #ArpaioContempt. Two tweets appeared in the last few minutes:

Snow also got hot w/Arpaio attny Michele Iafrate dragging heels on document production. Ordered her2turn over remaining docs

and

Zullo won’t go on any time soon. refusing 2b deposed without attorney. Defense attnyMcDonald said USAO won’t grant immunity

As the day progressed, it became apparent that the US Attorney’s Office decided that immunity wasn’t “in the cards” for Mike Zullo, and that Judge Snow said was not inclined to grant use immunity for Zullo’s testimony. Further, the County is not going to pay for a lawyer for Mike Zullo. He is on his own.

The Maricopa County Sheriff’s posses have long been in a gray area. Posse members were told in training that they were unpaid employees of the County, but when it came to insurance and posse-related injuries, they were not covered. This may explain why the number of posse members has dropped precipitously. The number of posse members was once reported at 3,000, but today it is below 1,000.

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110 Responses to No immunity for Zullo

  1. avatar
    Jim October 27, 2015 at 2:33 pm #

    I’m wondering how long Judge Snow will put up with Zullo’s nonsense. Zullo’s known he needed a lawyer since at least August (and should have figured it out from the April hearings). What are some of the tools the judge has at his disposal?

  2. avatar
    CRJ October 27, 2015 at 3:28 pm #

    I wonder if Judge Snow’s fuse is getting short because of the burden on the National Debt?

    Wasn’t there an “Offer” to settle that actually involved a surplus rather than a spike in the NATIONAL Debt?

    I’m mean it’s a Misdeameanor that probably won’t look good for Sheriff’s Election. Case Closed.

    What’s he going for?

    How much is all of this costing tax payers?

    Has Judge Snow lost balance in a personal motivation? I’m just a little confused I guess. Is this a FELONY CONVICTION Trial or small claims-misdeameanor costing Americans millions ?

    What are the cost of this in Federal Court so far? It’s got to be approaching multi million $ Court Fees.

    Guess it’s just interesting to see the rabid insidous responses for a Cert forma pauperis Case Judy v. Obama 14-9396 here, but not a wimper from the Cost of this massive Crane Expedition to swat a nat.

  3. avatar
    Pete October 27, 2015 at 3:35 pm #

    Jim:
    I’m wondering how long Judge Snow will put up with Zullo’s nonsense.Zullo’s known he needed a lawyer since at least August (and should have figured it out from the April hearings).What are some of the tools the judge has at his disposal?

    Unfortunately a club is not one of them. But perhaps the judge can produce a legal equivalent.

  4. avatar
    Pete October 27, 2015 at 3:40 pm #

    CRJ: Is this a FELONY CONVICTION Trial or small claims-misdeameanor costing Americans millions ?

    What are the cost of this in Federal Court so far? It’s got to be approaching multi million $ Court Fees.

    Right now it’s a civil case, not criminal. It may be referred for prosecution as criminal contempt of court.

    Arpaio’s civil cases have so far, during his tenure as sheriff, cost Maricopa County taxpayers something like $150 million plus in settlements, attorneys’ fees, and court costs. And the meter is definitely running. Someone else will undoubtedly produce a more accurate figure.

  5. avatar
    Curious George October 27, 2015 at 3:49 pm #

    Zullo is in deep trouble.

  6. avatar
    CRJ October 27, 2015 at 3:54 pm #

    Well, the longer it goes, the more Trump will benefit for sure, as immigration has been his bully pulpit.

    They are just begging for the sympathy of American’s to come raining down on the poor sheriff exasperated for “trying to do his job”.

    If Judge Snow has a lick of sense he’d get his pink panties out of that Court Room a.s.a.p. .. But he keeps it-a-going. Trumps loving it.

  7. avatar
    Nancy R Owens October 27, 2015 at 4:01 pm #

    CRJ:

    If Judge Snow has a lick of sense he’d get his pink panties out of that Court Room a.s.a.p. .. But he keeps it-a-going. Trumps loving it.

    Hilarious!

    I’m glad I wasn’t drinking coke or coffee just then because my nostrils would have surely spewed like a whale’s blowhole!

    As the saying goes, “Be careful who you kick on the way up. They’re the same ones you’ll meet on the way back down.”

    You are talking about Arpaio, right?

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 27, 2015 at 4:01 pm #

    Someone who was in court today commented: “Judge Snow was not pleased.”

    It appears now based on comments in today’s hearing that the “Atlanta attorney” is only advising Zullo. One BOTG reported:

    “Atlanta attorney told Zullo he had to get counsel”

    Jim: I’m wondering how long Judge Snow will put up with Zullo’s nonsense.

  9. avatar
    bob October 27, 2015 at 4:02 pm #

    CRJ:
    If Judge Snow has a lick of sense he’d get his pink panties out of that Court Room a.s.a.p. ..

    So the (pink-panty wearing?) judge should stop doing his job … because? Because Judy doesn’t think the plaintiffs in this case deserve justice?

    Judy yet again proudly displays his ignorance, instead of focusing on something that might improve his life.

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 27, 2015 at 4:04 pm #

    The longer this goes, the more important Zullo seems to be, more what one commenter called him: “Arpaio’s G. Gordon Liddy.” The Zullo appearance in Georgia stands out in my mind, as well as his trips to Seattle, and finally the 5th Amendment claims.

    Curious George:
    Zullo is in deep trouble.

  11. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 27, 2015 at 4:10 pm #

    Attorney fees, borne by the County are in the multi-millions. But this is not just Judge Snow’s case to drop; there are plaintiffs. I’m not sure what you mean by “Court Fees.” Certainly there are costs in salaries for the Judge and his staff. There was a settlement offer from Arpaio, but it was rejected by Plaintiffs.

    Blame, however, for all of this rests squarely on Joe Arpaio, who ran rough-shod over the rights of persons in Maricopa County, and for his admitted defiance of a court order.

    CRJ: What are the cost of this in Federal Court so far? It’s got to be approaching multi million $ Court Fees.

  12. avatar
    Curious George October 27, 2015 at 4:10 pm #

    From the Fogbow:

    “Defense attorney Richard Walker said that Attorney Masterson spoke with DOJ lawyers and were told to speak to U.S. Attorney’s Office about immunity for Michael Zullo. Walker said that a “Grant of immunity [for Zullo] is not in the cards.”

    Plaintiffs’ attorney Young said that Zullo thought he had counsel, tried to get counsel but failed. He was told Zullo would get counsel this past weekend.

    Defense attorney McDonald contacted the Atlanta attorney with Judge Snow’s order from yesterday. The Atlanta attorney told Zullo he had to get counsel and Defense attorney Popolizio would not represent Zullo. Defense attorney McDonald has not heard from Zullo as of today.

    Defense attorney Popolizio sent Judge’s Order to Zullo with deadlines set for Zullo.

    Plaintiffs can’t finish their case until Zullo issue is resolved.

    Judge Snow was not pleased”

  13. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 27, 2015 at 4:36 pm #

    Lemons tweeted: “In Monday meeting Snow says 5th “has not yet been invoked” apparently because it doesn’t apply to document production?”

    I don’t think so. The 5th CAN be invoked for document production in certain circumstances. I think rather that it has not been invoked because Zullo has not filed anything with the Court invoking it. His second-hand demands to the Defense don’t count.

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 27, 2015 at 4:39 pm #

    Lemons tweeted:

    “the fear of Zullo is potential criminal liability re: his relationship w/Montgomery”

    Uhh, what exactly was their relationship?

  15. avatar
    Sudoku October 27, 2015 at 5:20 pm #

    👏this has to be fattening! Too good to be true!👏

  16. avatar
    roadburner October 27, 2015 at 5:23 pm #

    funny, but BR bob isn’t reporting any of this

    i wonder why?

    😉

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 27, 2015 at 7:15 pm #

    Arpaio lawyer McDonald was arguing today for “use immunity” for Zullo. Use immunity basically says that something given in testimony cannot be used against the testifier in a criminal proceeding. It does not mean they’re immune from prosecution–it only means that their testimony cannot be used. Evidence would have to come from elsewhere.

    See:

    http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/immunity-exchange-testimony.html

  18. avatar
    Jim October 27, 2015 at 7:23 pm #

    roadburner:
    funny, but BR bob isn’t reporting any of this
    i wonder why?

    They’re still busy crucifying O’Brien…unlike Hillary, they can’t multi-task. 😀

  19. avatar
    alg October 27, 2015 at 10:17 pm #

    What is just stunning is that our favorite birther shill is now showing up in national headlines for invoking his 5th amendment rights in a federal court case that could result in sending America’s toughest Sheriff to jail. Talk about over expending your allotted fifteen minutes of infamy.

  20. avatar
    Rickey October 27, 2015 at 11:29 pm #

    CRJ:

    How much is all of this costing tax payers?

    Arpaio is costing the taxpayers of Maricopa County millions. The rest of us, an infinitesimal amount.

    The salaries of Judge Snow and his employees are essentially fixed costs – even if the Melendres case settled tomorrow, they would continue to receive their salaries.

    But Maricopa County taxpayers are going to take a huge hit when they have to pony up the damages to the plaintiffs and pay their attorney fees. But that is the price they pay for repeatedly re-electing a Sheriff who demonstrated time and again that he believes that he is above the law.

    What are the cost of this in Federal Court so far? It’s got to be approaching multi million $ Court Fees.

    Guess it’s just interesting to see the rabid insidous responses for a Cert forma pauperis Case Judy v. Obama 14-9396 here, but not a wimper from the Cost of this massive Crane Expedition to swat a nat.

    I’m not sure what you mean by “court fees.” However, I can assure you that the thousands of people who had their Constitutional rights violated by Arpaio do not consider him a mere gnat.

  21. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 28, 2015 at 12:23 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Uhh, what exactly was their relationship?

    They’re both crooks?

    In the end I think they were both in this for the money. We know enough about Montgomery to be sure of that and we’ll know for sure about Zullo when we see the Cold Case Posse’s books.

  22. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 28, 2015 at 12:34 am #

    CRJ: Guess it’s just interesting to see the rabid insidous responses for a Cert forma pauperis Case Judy v. Obama 14-9396 here, but not a wimper from the Cost of this massive Crane Expedition to swat a nat.

    Big difference: Your case isn’t worth a pile of gnat (correct spelling) poop while Arpaio has perpetrated a 20-year fraud and crime on the people of Maricopa County that has cost them several hundreds of millions of dollars.

  23. avatar
    John Reilly October 28, 2015 at 12:40 am #

    CarlOrcas: They’re both crooks?

    In the end I think they were both in this for the money. We know enough about Montgomery to be sure of that and we’ll know for sure about Zullo when we see the Cold Case Posse’s books.

    Hate to break it to you Carl but there are no books.

  24. avatar
    Pete October 28, 2015 at 12:49 am #

    Half the money the Cold Case Posse raised from the public, they spent on whiskey and wh*res.

    And the rest of it, they wasted.

  25. avatar
    John Reilly October 28, 2015 at 1:04 am #

    Pete:
    Half the money the Cold Case Posse raised from the public, they spent on whiskey and wh*res.

    And the rest of it, they wasted.

    But it is possible that the real reason to take the 5th is that Zullo cannot account for the money, and has a legitimate fear that prosecution could follow.

    It is not just the spending on foolishness, like whiskey and women of the night, but the failure to get receipts. From what we have learned so far, there is no guy with a green eye shade asking for expense reports in Arpaio’s office. And it may be that some money paid Zullo’s mortgage.

  26. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 28, 2015 at 1:14 am #

    John Reilly: Hate to break it to you Carl but there are no books.

    Oh, I wouldn’t be so sure. Whatever they have is probably a mess but there are records they can’t make disappear like bank accounts, deposits, payments, credit card charges, etc.

    There have been a handful of people who have served as officers/members of the LLC that may have access to some history….especially if they put stuff away to cover themselves in case the whole thing blew up.

  27. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 28, 2015 at 1:26 am #

    John Reilly: From what we have learned so far, there is no guy with a green eye shade asking for expense reports in Arpaio’s office. And it may be that some money paid Zullo’s mortgage.

    The posses don’t report to the SO. They all handle their own finances because they are private non-profit corporations. Most of them file complete IRS 990’s that you can find on Guidestar and similar non-profit monitoring operations.

    The Cold Case Posse has said it doesn’t have to because it’s affiliated with a government agency. None of the other posses make that claim and the SO has said they have no role in their finances and do not oversee their operations because they are independent corporations.

    Arpaio has managed to have it both ways for two decades. When he wants them to be part of the SO he’s there with the media. When he doesn’t….he can’t remember anything about them.

    Keep going at this and you’ll find yourself chasing your tail.

  28. avatar
    John Reilly October 28, 2015 at 1:34 am #

    Exactly my point Carl. What we know from Doc’s investigation is that required financial reports were not filed. That wasn’t an oversight. They have no books. Sure, someone can find a receipt for an airline ticket or hotel room, but if there is a detailed investigation there will substantial checks written to cash.

  29. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 28, 2015 at 1:46 am #

    John Reilly:
    Exactly my point Carl.What we know from Doc’s investigation is that required financial reports were not filed.That wasn’t an oversight.They have no books.Sure, someone can find a receipt for an airline ticket or hotel room, but if there is a detailed investigation there will substantial checks written to cash.

    Again, there are records…..even if they are shoe boxes full of bank statements and receipts. It’s time consuming but even if there are no books (and I doubt that’s the case) a pretty clear picture of how much money ran through the entity, where it came from and where it went, can be put together.

    And, of course, much of the information is in the hands of other people….like the bank(s) they used for the posse…..plus all of Zullo’s personal finances.

    I’ve always thought he probably had some major exposure on the money side with the posse’s operations but now I’m beginning to think whatever he was up to with Montgomery was also a con to generate money for both of them.

  30. avatar
    ArthurWankspittle October 28, 2015 at 5:20 am #

    Here’s a thought: the only way Zullo could get an immunity deal is by admitting the whole CCP was BS and only existed for Joe to milk public donations plus he was looking for stuff on Snow via Montgomery.

  31. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 28, 2015 at 8:12 am #

    Why would they give him immunity to say that? It’s not incriminating. They can force him to answer questions like those without immunity.

    ArthurWankspittle: Here’s a thought: the only way Zullo could get an immunity deal is by admitting the whole CCP was BS and only existed for Joe to milk public donations plus he was looking for stuff on Snow via Montgomery.

  32. avatar
    ArthurWankspittle October 28, 2015 at 8:43 am #

    It’s not incriminating for Zullo to say Arpaio wanted him to find some dirt on Judge Snow?

    As several people, myself included, have said, this will come down to finger pointing at the other party. Zullo will say it was all done on Arpaio’s orders. Arpaio will say Zullo was going off on his own and doing his own thing which was nothing to do with MCSO.

  33. avatar
    RanTalbott October 28, 2015 at 9:30 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It’s not incriminating.

    If it’s decided that the “investigation” was intended to influence the court, it would be: that would make him a party to “obstruction of justice”.

    I think there’s some possibility of raising “reasonable doubt” if they really, really believed that there was a conspiracy that involved the DOJ: how do you “take it to the authorities” if the authorities are the suspects? That’s not where my doubts are, but I’m not willing to mess with the protections in the system just because I think they’re guilty.

    Another way it might be incriminating is that A/Z have said “official law enforcement investigation” so many times a layman could find the synaptic connections that trigger the phrase on a CAT scan. Since they’re soliciting donations on that basis, I think it could be considered “mail fraud”.

    Finally, if they call it a campaign gimmick, and were using county funds, that would be a state felony.

    I don’t know if there’s a good spin they can put on this, but that definitely looks like a bad one.

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 28, 2015 at 9:46 am #

    It doesn’t incriminate Zullo.

    This whole Arpaio/Montgomery business is not an investigation of an obstruction charge. It is a contempt charge, and what is being determined is Sheriff Joe’s state of mind when he disobeyed the court order.

    Obstruction of justice generally comes about when someone lies to an investigator, or destroys evidence. Investigating a judge is not obstruction.

    ArthurWankspittle: It’s not incriminating for Zullo to say Arpaio wanted him to find some dirt on Judge Snow?

  35. avatar
    ArthurWankspittle October 28, 2015 at 11:02 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It doesn’t incriminate Zullo.

    I maybe fast forwarding to a criminal set of charges, but I can now see why Zullo wants to withhold info or plead the 5th. He won’t be incriminated as far as the issue being addressed in this court hearing but he doesn’t want to provide evidence against himself for any criminal court hearing that follows.

  36. avatar
    bob October 28, 2015 at 11:21 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    This whole Arpaio/Montgomery business is not an investigation of an obstruction charge. It is a contempt charge, and what is being determined is Sheriff Joe’s state of mind when he disobeyed the court order.

    The Fifth Amendment invocation does not have to relate to the proceedings before the court. If a question calls for an answer that would require the witness to admit that he or she committed a crime — any crime, any jurisdiction — then the witness may invoke.

    There are many possible crimes and many theories of liability in play here. A competent lawyer (should Zullo hire one) could probably make a successful argument. But it would depend on the question asked or the contents of the document.

  37. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 28, 2015 at 12:01 pm #

    I want to reiterate the context of my remark that Zullo didn’t need immunity.

    “It was if Zullo were to say “Here’s a thought: the only way Zullo could get an immunity deal is by admitting the whole CCP was BS and only existed for Joe to milk public donations plus he was looking for stuff on Snow via Montgomery.”

    I don’t find anything incriminating against Zullo in THAT hypothetical admission, and that the government and the Court have no reason to give him immunity in exchange for such testimony.

    bob: The Fifth Amendment invocation does not have to relate to the proceedings before the court.

  38. avatar
    Pete October 28, 2015 at 12:25 pm #

    RanTalbott: Another way it might be incriminating is that A/Z have said “official law enforcement investigation” so many times a layman could find the synaptic connections that trigger the phrase on a CAT scan. Since they’re soliciting donations on that basis, I think it could be considered “mail fraud”.

    Given that the CCP actively presented known false evidence to the public as part of their “official law enforcement investigation” into Obama’s birth certificate, and given that they raised a large amount of money in donations from people supporting that “investigation,” you can sort of smell the mail fraud from here.

  39. avatar
    Benji Franklin October 28, 2015 at 12:30 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I don’t find anything incriminating against Zullo in THAT hypothetical admission

    But are we agreed that if Zullo admits that the Obama identity ‘investigation’ was a instrument of the donation appeal to Birthers, and to maximize the take from them, he stated that an official investigation had determined that the BC and SS Registration were ‘forgeries’, that would have been fraud, even if unrelated to the focus on the judge or other subjects of the contempt hearing?

    What I’m getting at, is that if Zullo thinks in hiss hard of hearts that he committed fraud with respect to getting money from Birthers, as circumstances surrounding the contempt proceeding place him in the position of being officially questioned about the contempt related topics in a way that possibly exposes what HE THINKS is fraud on the Birthers, then that would explain his seemingly selective apprehension about the court proceeding shining light on what he and Arpaio would have then been REALLY doing by trumpeting the concept of Obama’s ID documents being what Birthers could be convinced were ‘forgeries’ used to commit fraud, or at the very least, the ‘Crime Of This Young Century.’

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 28, 2015 at 12:36 pm #

    Everything we know tells us that Zullo believes that the birth certificate is a fake, and that Arpaio believes it too. If that is the case, then using the investigation as a fundraiser doesn’t seem like fraud.

    I don’t mean to say that Zullo isn’t being dishonest in some sense. He probably knows things that would hurt his case that he is not talking about, and he may well have painted his likelihood of success in a more favorable light than it deserves.

    What I’m trying to get at is that I don’t see any evidence of a specific crime yet, and that if Zullo has a legitimate concern about self incrimination, then I don’t know what that concern is, based on the information available right now.

    Advice I read on the Internet suggests that someone who is going to be deposed, or is considering offering testimony, should consult a criminal attorney first. That may be good advice, but that’s not something my instincts would tell me to do if I got called before Judge Snow. That’s because I am confident in my own mind that I’ve acted entirely above the law.

    While it is improper to infer guilt from someone pleading the 5th in a criminal proceeding, the Court or a jury may draw conclusions from someone pleading the 5th in a civil matter.

    Benji Franklin: What I’m getting at, is that if Zullo knows that he committed fraud with respect to getting money from Birthers, as circumstances surrounding the contempt proceeding place him in the position of being officially questioned about the contempt related topics in a way that possibly exposes what HE THINKS is fraud on the Birthers, then that would explain his seemingly selective apprehension about the court proceeding shining light on what he and Arpaio were doing by trumpeting the concept of Obama’s ID documents being ‘forgeries’.

  41. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 28, 2015 at 1:23 pm #

    Pete: Given that the CCP actively presented known false evidence to the public as part of their “official law enforcement investigation” into Obama’s birth certificate, and given that they raised a large amount of money in donations from people supporting that “investigation,” you can sort of smell the mail fraud from here.

    I’ve always felt that Zullo was leaving himself open to a charge of impersonating a peace officer under Arizona law but like most of this he and the sheriff have so muddied the waters that I doubt any charges will be filed and a conviction is even less likely.

    Until he gets caught lying under oath I think his real problem is the money and not necessarily how he raised it but what he did with it. I suspect that’s what he’s terrified of right now…..questions about how the Cold Case Posse operated.

  42. avatar
    Pete October 28, 2015 at 1:45 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Everything we know tells us that Zullo believes that the birth certificate is a fake, and that Arpaio believes it too.

    Does it? I’ve seen absolutely nothing that convinces me that either Zullo or Arpaio really believes Obama’s birth certificate is a fake.

    They both say that they believe the birth certificate is a fake, and they may make that claim consistently, but that is far, far from being the same thing.

    You’re an honest person, Doc, and so you tend to assume the best of people. I do as well. But sometimes this is a mistake.

  43. avatar
    bgansel9 October 28, 2015 at 2:19 pm #

    CRJ: Guess it’s just interesting to see the rabid insidous responses for a Cert forma pauperis Case Judy v. Obama 14-9396 here, but not a wimper from the Cost of this massive Crane Expedition to swat a nat.

    Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong? And, at least this judge is attached to a District Court, so you don’t have to feel sorry for yourself that the judge is taking the time to look at this case. Your case was rejected by SCOTUS, not the same jurisdiction, but, I can obviously tell you are jealous. Poor Judy wants to be Judged. Go fly a kite, it will do you much more good than sitting online stewing over why you aren’t able to get a day in a courtroom.

  44. avatar
    bgansel9 October 28, 2015 at 2:45 pm #

    Is it possible that Zullo’s advisor is not certified to defend cases in Arizona or at the Federal level? Apparently, it seems, Zullo found someone who he likes and is getting advise, but the person can’t actually represent him? That would cost money. Why is Zullo’s lawyer from Atlanta? I wouldn’t be surprised if this Atlanta Lawyer is a family friend or cousin or something. I wonder why Zullo can’t afford to pay a qualified Arizona lawyer with all of the funds he took in? Hmmmm!

  45. avatar
    Krosis October 28, 2015 at 3:12 pm #

    Mr. Zullo, Mr. Zullo, Mr. Zullo!
    Oh no, oh no, oh no!
    You will now be deposed and persecuted
    By this horrible Obamabot Judge Snow!

    Pastor Gallups, Pastor Gallups, Pastor Gallups!
    With promises you your listeners enticed!
    Will you now tell us all that Zullo told you?
    You promised, you promised, you promised!

  46. avatar
    J.D. Sue October 28, 2015 at 3:28 pm #

    there it is — investigating Snow:

    Stephen Lemons ‏just tweeted:
    Questioned by Snow as 2Montgomery’s allegations that Snow ordered some wiretaps, Mac admitted those #s shown 2 Lamberth also

  47. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 28, 2015 at 3:47 pm #

    Apparently Mr. Apuzzo never gets tired of being wrong:

    See comments here:

    http://www.newstalkflorida.com/should-the-birthers-go-after-ted-cruz

    bgansel9: Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong?

  48. avatar
    Pete October 28, 2015 at 3:51 pm #

    Mackiewicz playedgood soldier, backedup Arpaio and Sheridans contention Seattle operation wasabout CIAharvesting bankinfo #ArpaioContempt

    Mac claimed 2believe some ofMontgomery’s bull: “I still think to this day there was a little bit of credibility to…Mont.” #ArpaioContempt

  49. avatar
    J.D. Sue October 28, 2015 at 4:02 pm #

    contradiction in Mac’s story: he said hedidn’t investigate wiretap allegations, tho he took Montgomery2Lamberth re wiretaps #ArpaioContempt

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 28, 2015 at 4:28 pm #

    It looks like Barr, as a favor to Arpaio/Klayman talked to Zullo and told him he needed a lawyer. It’s unlikely Barr is admitted to the Arizona bar. And even if Barr did apply to represent Zullo pro hac vice, Zullo would still need a local attorney to sponsor him, and somebody would have to pay for a travel and lodging–and what about the attorney’s OTHER cases That’s untenable. Zullo will need a local attorney. He has exactly 2 more days to get one and file with the Court.

    bgansel9: Is it possible that Zullo’s advisor is not certified to defend cases in Arizona or at the Federal level?

  51. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 28, 2015 at 4:57 pm #

    A room illuminated by a flashing neon sign.
    Zull-on, Zull-off.
    A room so small that it can never be empty.
    The wind doesn’t care.
    Panic wings, wrings, sings.
    Oh, the jail-bird sings.
    Oh! The jail-bird always sings,
    And it’s in his nestling’s nature
    As it will mature
    When it sees its reflection in the roadside puddle
    And recognizes something it hadn’t imagined before.
    The stooge sings. The minion sings.
    The olive branch is silent,
    No peace offered
    Only bitter fruit.

    Cancel tomorrow if you cannot bear
    Its dawning light?
    Crouch in your hole?
    Thoughts of Argentina?
    Thoughts of Majorka?
    Go North? Go South.?
    Go anywhere but here?
    No, you cannot cancel tomorrow
    If it does not agree with you.
    Seek the Advocate.
    Seek the Oracle.
    Seek the one who speaks truth to power.
    Seek your own salvation in the Truth
    That will set you free.
    Someday.
    Eventually.
    Until then, “your next.”

  52. avatar
    Pete October 28, 2015 at 6:22 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Apparently Mr. Apuzzo never gets tired of being wrong:

    See comments here:

    http://www.newstalkflorida.com/should-the-birthers-go-after-ted-cruz

    I posted a couple of comments over there, but they promptly disappeared. I guess I wasn’t polite enough for them.

    I haven’t decided whether Mario is insane, or just a bad guy in a petty, ambulance-chaser, stupid egotistical little way.

  53. avatar
    Northland10 October 28, 2015 at 8:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It’s unlikely Barr is admitted to the Arizona bar.

    He’s not, nor is his son.

  54. avatar
    Dave B. October 28, 2015 at 9:03 pm #

    I got one of them in my e-mail notifications. It was splen-did.
    I think Mario might just be a bit dim.

    Pete: I posted a couple of comments over there, but they promptly disappeared. I guess I wasn’t polite enough for them.

    I haven’t decided whether Mario is insane, or just a bad guy in a petty, ambulance-chaser, stupid egotistical little way.

  55. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 28, 2015 at 9:15 pm #

    BOTG report:

    Brian Mackiewicz on the stand:
    Many new exhibits were introduced today.

    Dennis Montgomery was introduced to Mackiewicz through Tim Blixseth. Mike Zullo knew Tim Blixseth. The question was not asked how Mike Zullo met or knew Tim Blixseth. [Note: Jerome Corsi wrote about Blixseth at WND June 2012. Doc.]

    There were several meetings with Judge Lamberth in D.C. beginning the end of August early September 2014. The meetings were arranged by Larry Klayman, who was also representing Sheriff Arpaio in different matters at about that time. Attendees included Larry Klayman and his assistant Deana James, Mike Zullo, at the first meeting. Meeting was seeking immunity for Dennis Montgomery’s claims. Meeting was short. Second meeting occurred about two weeks later and attendees included Dennis Montgomery, Larry Klayman, Dennis Montgomery’s son-in-law, Brian Mackiewicz and Mike Zullo. Dennis Montgomery told his story to Judge Lamberth, telling why he needed federal immunity as a whistle blower. Third meeting happened in about two weeks. Attendees included Mackiewicz, Zullo, Klayman and his assistant Deana James. Klayman asked about Montgomery’s options. Lamberth suggested go to the F.B.I. or the C.I.A. or wait until after the 2014 election and go to the Senate Intelligence Committee.

    Judge snow asked about Mackiewicz what Judge Lamberth said about the numbers that would indicate a wire tap was in place. Mackiewicz said “Lamberth didn’t say anything about the numbers.” This contradicts Chief Sheridan’s earlier testimony when he said that the judge confirmed the numbers were wire tap numbers and this gave Dennis Montgomery some credibility.

    Mackiewicz said that Dennis Montgomery had several computers in his office in Seattle and 1/2 of Montgomery’s 4 car garage was an elaborate computer see up.

    Mackiewicz did not stand by his original testimony that Mike Zullo googled Judge Snows name. Mackiwicz said that it was Mike Zullo’s idea but Montgomery googled Snow’s name.

  56. avatar
    Dave B. October 28, 2015 at 9:20 pm #

    I don’t recognize that from anywhere, but it’s a peach.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    A room illuminated by a flashing neon sign.
    Zull-on, Zull-off.
    A room so small that it can never be empty.
    The wind doesn’t care.
    Panic wings, wrings, sings.
    Oh, the jail-bird sings.
    Oh! The jail-bird always sings,
    And it’s in his nestling’s nature
    As it will mature
    When it sees its reflection in the roadside puddle
    And recognizes something it hadn’t imagined before.
    The stooge sings. The minion sings.
    The olive branch is silent,
    No peace offered
    Only bitter fruit.

    Cancel tomorrow if you cannot bear
    Its dawning light?
    Crouch in your hole?
    Thoughts of Argentina?
    Thoughts of Majorka?
    Go North? Go South.?
    Go anywhere but here?
    No, you cannot cancel tomorrow
    If it does not agree with you.
    Seek the Advocate.
    Seek the Oracle.
    Seek the one who speaks truth to power.
    Seek your own salvation in the Truth
    That will set you free.
    Someday.
    Eventually.
    Until then, “your next.”

  57. avatar
    Rickey October 28, 2015 at 9:30 pm #

    Dr. And even if Barr did apply to represent Zullo pro hac vice, Zullo would still need a local attorney to sponsor him, and somebody would have to pay for a travel and lodging–and what about the attorney’s OTHER cases That’s untenable. Zullo will need a local attorney. He has exactly 2 more days to get one and file with the Court.

    I agree. Barr, with his connections, probably could find a local attorney to sponsor him, but he almost certainly has no other business in Arizona and time spent there would take him away from his clients in Georgia.

    I suspect that any Phoenix attorneys who have been approached by Zullo (whether directly or indirectly) have concluded that taking on Zullo as a client is a lose-lose proposition.

  58. avatar
    RanTalbott October 28, 2015 at 11:13 pm #

    The gerbils are getting the news (sort of). Hilarity is ensuing.

    Part of which is, due to some sloppy wording by Rondeau, some of them think that Judge Snow is Eric Holder’s brother-in-law.

    Kerchner appears to be trying to invent a new theory of causality, in which current events can cause things to happen in the past:

    Is this case all about the ACLU doing Obama’s bidding and filing a lawsuit targeting Arpaio and picking a federal judge closely connected to Obama insiders, past and present, because Sheriff Arpaio dared to investigate Obama’s forged PDF file online birth document and forged draft registration card?

    Even the quantum entanglement folks are only claiming simultaneity.

  59. avatar
    CRJ October 29, 2015 at 12:12 am #

    @bengansel Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong? ] Yes!, but wrong is open to interpretation. Now if you said , “Losing”, I could agree wholly. (smile). SHE KNOWS believes in my Debate with Trump being Ratings Gold though!
    http://www.sheknows.com/living/articles/1095545/presidential-debates-wed-like-to-see

    @Dr. Conspiracy: Everything we know tells us that Zullo believes that the birth certificate is a fake, and that Arpaio believes it too.

    Wouldn’t that be something! In the process of Prosecution for collecting $ for the CCP, in Zullo & Sheriff Joe, the State Department actually is forced to prove Obama’s L.F. is legit with an Official Investigation!

    “Holy Backfire Conspiracy”, Batman!”

    As the State Department gets closer, and gets dragged in.. We’ll probably see the WHOLE THING go up in Smoke.

    Obama’s own guilt, gets the Justice Department off the Case and Judge Snow gets…” patsied” similar to Gov. Abercrombie?

    “Holy Sponge Bob Square Pants!, Batman!”

  60. avatar
    bgansel9 October 29, 2015 at 12:13 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Apparently Mr. Apuzzo never gets tired of being wrong:

    He never gets tired of being dumb either:

    “KevinDavidson is known as Dr. Conspiracy on the internet. That is why he sees everything as a conspiracy. The court decisions that he cites are noted. Now let’s get to my legal arguments which Dr. Conspiracy cannot touch.”

    Bwhahahahahahahaha! You see everything as a conspiracy, Doc? Ummmm… is he really this stupid?

  61. avatar
    bgansel9 October 29, 2015 at 12:17 am #

    CRJ: @bengansel Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong? ] Yes!, but wrong is open to interpretation. Now if you said , “Losing”, I could agree wholly. (smile).

    You’re losing because you’ve been wrong all along. Your interpretation doesn’t change the truth. If you would see clearly to understand why you are wrong and turn your ship around so it’s headed in the correct direction (Obama was born in Hawaii, Hawaii is a state of the U.S., Obama is eligible, your lawsuit is moot, etc…), you could concentrate on something really worthwhile in your life and you would start winning.

    By the way, Ben is a funny name for a female. 😛 Thanks for that laugh.

    P.S. (to Doc) – I’m in moderation on my last comment. Thanks in advance.

  62. avatar
    bgansel9 October 29, 2015 at 12:20 am #

    CRJ: Wouldn’t that be something! In the process of Prosecution for collecting $ for the CCP, in Zullo & Sheriff Joe, the State Department actually is forced to prove Obama’s L.F. is legit with an Official Investigation!

    You really do like going down rabbit holes, don’t you? There is nothing to investigate. Hawaii has verified that Obama was born in that state and is an American Citizen.

  63. avatar
    bgansel9 October 29, 2015 at 12:41 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Judge snow asked about Mackiewicz what Judge Lamberth said about the numbers that would indicate a wire tap was in place. Mackiewicz said “Lamberth didn’t say anything about the numbers.” This contradicts Chief Sheridan’s earlier testimony when he said that the judge confirmed the numbers were wire tap numbers and this gave Dennis Montgomery some credibility.

    This keeps getting deeper and deeper. How many decades is it going to take to untangle this mess and see some kind of sanctions? Is Arpaio going to be able to stay in his position until he decides to retire and walk away scott free? What can we expect to happen next? Does anyone know?

  64. avatar
    CRJ October 29, 2015 at 1:05 am #

    @begansel9 [You really do like going down rabbit holes, don’t you? There is nothing to investigate. Hawaii has verified that Obama was born in that state and is an American [C]itizen.] emphasis added.

    Are you talking Hawaii or the Dead Mrs. Loretta Fuddy, or are they one and the same to you? Just seeking clarification.

    You do recall the qualification for the Office of President is [ natural born Citizen ] it was[ citizen ] at the time of the Adoption of the Constitution.

    [This keeps getting deeper and deeper] Seems the rabbit hole is a good explanation for your queary.

  65. avatar
    bgansel9 October 29, 2015 at 1:14 am #

    CRJ: Are you talking Hawaii or the Dead Mrs. Loretta Fuddy, or are they one and the same to you? Just seeking clarification.

    Loretta Fuddy was acting in accordance with state laws. She was not a separate entity, she was a clerk for the state. The states certifies, not a person in the position that Loretta Fuddy once held.

    Your suggestion that a person born in the United States isn’t a natural born citizen is just idiotic.

    I’m done with you, you are incapable of thinking clearly. Your desire to believe in conspiracies is hindering your mental capacities. I’m sure you have some, but, I’ll be damned it I can see them.

  66. avatar
    bgansel9 October 29, 2015 at 1:17 am #

    CRJ: [This keeps getting deeper and deeper] Seems the rabbit hole is a good explanation for your queary.

    Wrong, Arpaio’s deputy is contradicted in testimony. That is not a rabbit hole. As a Maricopa County resident, I want my officials to be held accountable when they lie.

  67. avatar
    Rickey October 29, 2015 at 1:26 am #

    CRJ:

    Wouldn’t that be something! In the process of Prosecution for collecting $ for the CCP, in Zullo & Sheriff Joe, the State Department actually is forced to prove Obama’s L.F. is legit with an Official Investigation!

    You haven’t been paying attention, I see.

    The State Department has no involvement in the Melendres case. It is a civil lawsuit against Arpaio filed by people who were racially profiled by his department in direct violation of a court order. Obama’s birth certificate is entirely irrelevant to the lawsuit.

    Once again you demonstrate that you have no understanding about how our legal system works.

  68. avatar
    Pete October 29, 2015 at 2:02 am #

    CRJ: Are you talking Hawaii or the Dead Mrs. Loretta Fuddy, or are they one and the same to you? Just seeking clarification.

    He’s talking about the State of Hawaii, not only through Loretta Fuddy acting in her official capacity, but also through two Governors, one from each party, other officials including Dr. Chiyome Fukino acting in official capacity, and the State of Hawaii’s official web site, which continues to this day to point to the scanned PDF copy of Obama’s birth certificate posted on the White House web site in connection with their report that they sent Obama a copy of his original long-form birth certificate:

    http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/faq-obama/

    The State of Hawaii additionally verified to Arizona’s Secretary of State that Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born US citizen. The Secretary of State of Arizona said he was satisfied with that verification.

    The quantity and quality of evidence showing that a) Obama was born in Hawaii, and b) it doesn’t take citizen parents to be a natural born citizen, combined with the complete, total and absolute absence of any genuine evidence to the contrary, combined with the thorough and absolute debunking of every single bullshirt claim ever made by birthers, is plenty sufficient to convince any rational, honest, informed person.

    And in that, I include ANY rational, honest, informed person who may have at any time in the past been skeptical about Obama’s eligibility.

    So if you don’t accept those two things, you are either not rational, not sufficiently informed, or not honest. Or you’re just being an ass.

    So Cody, which of the above is it?

  69. avatar
    Keith October 29, 2015 at 3:47 am #

    bgansel9: What can we expect to happen next? Does anyone know?

    Who knows…

  70. avatar
    roadburner October 29, 2015 at 5:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Everything we know tells us that Zullo believes that the birth certificate is a fake, and that Arpaio believes it too. If that is the case, then using the investigation as a fundraiser doesn’t seem like fraud.

    but his comments made in the famous snippet from `the joe show’ could come back and bite him on the ass and make it difficult to say it was purely an investigation he believed in and nothing more.

  71. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) October 29, 2015 at 7:38 am #

    CRJ: Wouldn’t that be something! In the process of Prosecution for collecting $ for the CCP, in Zullo & Sheriff Joe, the State Department actually is forced to prove Obama’s L.F. is legit with an Official Investigation!

    The proof is the self-authenticating birth certificate. If A/Z want to impeach that, they would have to come up with evidence. And I mean real evidence, not birther speculation and “worshipping the pile” and “this is not enough for me”.
    So far, no birther has succeeded providing such real evidence, and you are delusional if you believe A/Z actually have such evidence in their possession.

  72. avatar
    Pete October 29, 2015 at 9:45 am #

    To reiterate what I said above:

    At this point, anyone who does not accept that President Obama was born in Hawaii and is eligible to be President, regardless of the fact that his father was not a US citizen, is either:

    * not informed,
    * not rational,
    * dishonest,
    * or simply a total ass.

    There’s no other option. The state of the existing evidence is such that you cannot be a fully informed, rational, honest person, and believe this crap. It’s not possible.

    You can be an ass, and pretend that you believe it, but you can’t actually believe it. Because the claims that Obama is ineligible are clearly, plainly and proven bullsh*t.

  73. avatar
    Curious George October 29, 2015 at 10:53 am #

    From The Fogbow 10/28/15:

    “…Zullo true believers who worship the ground the all mighty Zullo walks on, with his numerous titles and ranks and his awesome pretend police powers would do well to review Detective Brian Mackiewicz’ testimony in response to questioning by defense attorney Popolizio. Mackiewicz was asked about the Seattle investigation and who was in charge in Seattle. Mackiewicz responded that he was in charge and out ranked Zullo, a volunteer posse member. By mid January 2014, Sergeant Anglin arrived in Seattle and assumed control of the stolen personal information investigation, overseeing Mackiewicz and Zullo. Mackiewicz claimed they were investigating 150,000 victims of ID theft in Maricopa county and 400,000 victims of ID theft in Arizona, while in Seattle. Mackiewicz made it clear that volunteer posse member Mike Zullo was support staff only and as a posse member could do nothing unless told to do something by Detective Mackiewicz or Sgt. Anglin. Mackiewicz made it very clear that when Chief Deputy Sheridan told them that they were not to investigate the birth certificate, the Department of Justice, Montgomery conspiracies, Eric Holder, Lanny Breuer, the law firm of Covington & Burling and under no circumstances, Judge G. Murray Snow, Posse member Mike Zullo was present on at least one occasion to hear Sheridan’s order. Did the order apply to all three? Yes.”

    Birthers, did you get that? “Mackiewicz made it clear that volunteer posse member Mike Zullo was support staff only and as a posse member could do nothing unless told to do something by Detective Mackiewicz or Sgt. Anglin.”

    Zullo was a glorified water boy.

  74. avatar
    Pete October 29, 2015 at 10:59 am #

    No, no! He’s Chief Inspector Commander Lieutenant Vice Admiral Captain America Zullo! As such he was in total, complete authoritable charge of the important investimigations foisted upon him by Sheriff and Grand Marshal Joe Arpaio and We the American Peoples!

    I refusal to believe anything to the contrary.

  75. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) October 29, 2015 at 11:16 am #

    Curious George: Sergeant Anglin arrived in Seattle and assumed control of the stolen personal information investigation, overseeing Mackiewicz and Zullo. Mackiewicz claimed they were investigating 150,000 victims of ID theft in Maricopa county and 400,000 victims of ID theft in Arizona

    Still hard to believe such a massive investigation would even in part rely on volunteers who were part of a group originally intended to look at cold cases. This alleged identity theft case must’ve been one of the hottest they had, if it actually exists.

    Curious George: Zullo was a glorified water boy.

    I can already hear Birdboy croaking “His operation was super top sekrit and the ID theft operation was just a cover to mislead the Obama regime” or something.

  76. avatar
    Curious George October 29, 2015 at 1:50 pm #

    Pete:
    No, no! He’s Chief Inspector Commander Lieutenant Vice Admiral Captain America Zullo! As such he was in total, complete authoritable charge of the important investimigations foisted upon him by Sheriff and Grand Marshal Joe Arpaio and We the American Peoples!

    I refusal to believe anything to the contrary.

    Pete,
    It sounds like you’ve been around one too many birthers. That’s really a great impersonation of a birther. It would really play well over at BR. 🙂 You may become Bird Boy’s new hero.

  77. avatar
    Pete October 29, 2015 at 2:13 pm #

    Thanks… I think?

  78. avatar
    J.D. Sue October 29, 2015 at 2:17 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Advice I read on the Internet suggests that someone who is going to be deposed, or is considering offering testimony, should consult a criminal attorney first. That may be good advice, but that’s not something my instincts would tell me to do if I got called before Judge Snow. That’s because I am confident in my own mind that I’ve acted entirely above the law.

    —-
    Seems to me, any competent civil attorney will prepare for any possible dep questions that could potentially touch upon criminal behavior and, if necessary, that attorney will consult with a criminal attorney. Why should a deponent first go to a criminal attorney who may have no experience with depositions or other civil procedure?

  79. avatar
    J.D. Sue October 29, 2015 at 2:31 pm #

    With a caveat that I have no idea what is in Zullo’s withheld docs… My suspicion is the following: Zullo has talked to multiple lawyers, but he just can’t find one who assesses his docs as supporting a good faith argument that production of such docs implicates the 4th or 5th Amendment. In my daydreams, Zullo tomorrow files a POS motion for order of protection that reads like something that Klayman wrote.

    Of course, this is just my imagination, runnin’ away with me.

  80. avatar
    Curious George October 29, 2015 at 2:41 pm #

    Pete:
    I was just having fun with you. I hope you didn’t take me seriously. 🙂

  81. avatar
    Joey October 29, 2015 at 2:56 pm #

    CRJ:
    @begansel9 [You really do like going down rabbit holes, don’t you? There is nothing to investigate. Hawaii has verified that Obama was born in that state and is an American [C]itizen.] emphasis added.

    Are you talking Hawaii or the Dead Mrs. Loretta Fuddy, or are they one and the same to you? Just seeking clarification.

    You do recall the qualification for the Office of President is [ natural born Citizen ] it was[ citizen ] at the time of the Adoption of the Constitution.

    [This keeps getting deeper and deeper] Seems the rabbit hole is a good explanation for your queary.

    Mr. Judy is obviously unaware of the fact that the Republican Governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle’s Director of the Hawaii Department of Health, Dr. Chiyome Fukino (who was in that position years before Loretta Fuddy) officially verified the authenticity of the birth certificate of Barack Hussein Obama,II in October of 2008 and again in July of 2009.
    http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/files/2013/05/08-93.pdf
    http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/files/2013/05/09-063.pdf

    Here’s a link to a youtube video of a CNN interview with Dr. Fukino about the authenticity of the Obama birth certificate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9D4n6_Uifk

    When the Republican former governor was interviewed on the radio about the Obama birth certificate, she said the following:
    ‘You know, during the campaign of 2008, I was actually in the mainland campaigning for Sen. McCain. This issue kept coming up so much in the campaign, and again I think it’s one of those issues that is simply a distraction from the more critical issues that are facing the country. And so I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go personally view the birth certificate in the birth records of the Department of Health, and we issued a news release at that time saying that the president was, in fact, born at Kapi’olani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And that’s just a fact. And yet people continue to call up and e-mail and want to make it an issue. And I think it’s, again, a horrible distraction for the country by those people who continue this. … It’s been established. He was born here.”
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/05/hawaii_gov_lingle_answers_the.html

  82. avatar
    Jim October 29, 2015 at 3:10 pm #

    J.D. Sue:
    With a caveat that I have no idea what is in Zullo’s withheld docs… My suspicion is the following:Zullo has talked to multiple lawyers, but he just can’t find one who assesses his docs as supporting a good faith argument that production of such docs implicates the 4th or 5th Amendment.In my daydreams, Zullo tomorrow files a POS motion for order of protection that reads like something that Klayman wrote.

    From Lemons’ tweet: “Plaintiffs attny said they have received log of withheld docs from defense, describing 87 items, incl. audio & video files”

    Sounds like a lot of Zullo running off his mouth is in there!

  83. avatar
    Northland10 October 29, 2015 at 3:38 pm #

    Joey: Mr. Judy is obviously unaware…

    Unaware and doesn’t care.

  84. avatar
    Pete October 29, 2015 at 3:54 pm #

    Curious George:
    Pete:
    I was just having fun with you.I hope you didn’t take me seriously.

    Not to worry, CG! We’re all good! 🙂

  85. avatar
    Curious George October 29, 2015 at 4:34 pm #

    Pete,

    Curious George:
    Pete:
    “I was just having fun with you.I hope you didn’t take me seriously.”

    “Not to worry, CG! We’re all good!”

    Very good. Thanks. I think it would have been funny to see how many thumbs up you would have gotten over at BR from the faithful. A funny post Pete. Loved it.

  86. avatar
    Dave B. October 29, 2015 at 4:47 pm #

    Yeah, pretty much.

    bgansel9: He never gets tired of being dumb either:

    Bwhahahahahahahaha!You see everything as a conspiracy, Doc?Ummmm… is he really this stupid?

  87. avatar
    J.D. Sue October 29, 2015 at 5:28 pm #

    Jim: 87 items, incl. audio & video files

    —-
    Wow, I gotta say, that’s a lot more than I had daydreamed about.. What are the odds that all (or any) of them can be withheld with good faith….? If I could get a legit bet, I would take those odds and retire….

  88. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 29, 2015 at 5:51 pm #

    Lemons’ latest article:

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaios-boat-torpedoed-in-testimony-by-mcso-captain-7781729

    BTW: I get quite a lot of background email, including the BOTG reports, but I am also building all day for Habitat today thru Saturday, so commenters here posting the BOTG from The Fogbow will probably have the latest. Also follow Lemons on Twitter, as noted in the article.

  89. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 29, 2015 at 5:55 pm #

    Porn?

    Jim: From Lemons’ tweet: “Plaintiffs attny said they have received log of withheld docs from defense, describing 87 items, incl. audio & video files”

  90. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 29, 2015 at 5:58 pm #

    The advice was stated in a general way, but the article was about immunity. I’m thinking the idea was to make sure you don’t incriminate yourself if you are going to testify.

    J.D. Sue: Why should a deponent first go to a criminal attorney who may have no experience with depositions or other civil procedure?

  91. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 29, 2015 at 6:03 pm #

    That’s the question: why Zullo?

    I can think of two reasons. Zullo was running an off-the-books project with Montgomery for Arpaio. Mackiewicz said that Zullo had a “direct line” to Arpaio. The only other reason I can think of was that there was some way to funnel money to Zullo for his work–and there’s no evidence of that.

    The Magic M (not logged in): Still hard to believe such a massive investigation would even in part rely on volunteers who were part of a group originally intended to look at cold cases. This alleged identity theft case must’ve been one of the hottest they had, if it actually exists.

  92. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 29, 2015 at 6:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Porn?

    I don’t know about the dates but Zullo was posting videos of the “press conferences: and, I think, some of the public meetings on the Cold Case Posse website for a while.

    http://www.mcsoccp.org/joomla/

    That may be it…..or porn.

  93. avatar
    bob October 29, 2015 at 6:42 pm #

    CRJ:
    SHE KNOWS believes in my Debate with Trump being Ratings Gold though!
    http://www.sheknows.com/living/articles/1095545/presidential-debates-wed-like-to-see

    Judy so craves attention that he’s proud that he’s a punchline to sheknows.com’s joke.

  94. avatar
    Crustacean October 29, 2015 at 7:48 pm #

    I thought they were originally intended to shuttle misbehavin’ bar flies to the drunk tank. But that was back in the days before Zullo found his MCSO feathers and glued them to his arms with Arpaio’s special Birther Hubris Wax (guaranteed not to melt under the sun, but not recommended for Snow).

    The Magic M (not logged in): Still hard to believe such a massive investigation would even in part rely on volunteers who were part of a group originally intended to look at cold cases.

  95. avatar
    Curious George October 29, 2015 at 8:07 pm #

    Commander volunteer Posse Man, fights back. Files motion with federal court.

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2015/10/29/exclusive-maricopa-county-cold-case-posse-lead-investigator-files-motion-asking-for-more-time-to-retain-representation/

  96. avatar
    bob October 29, 2015 at 8:42 pm #

    Curious George:
    Commander volunteer Posse Man, fights back.Files motion with federal court.

    Zullo asks for 30 days to convince the county it should hire him his own lawyer.

  97. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 29, 2015 at 9:18 pm #

    But that’s public stuff. In order for self-incrimination protection to be involved, disclosing the existence of the document or knowledge of its existence has to be incriminating. Everybody knows that these meetings happened and that Zullo knows about them. Of course, Zullo might not know how the 5th Amendment works in relationship to subpoenas for documents.

    My guess is that they are not incriminating for Zullo, but perhaps damning for Arpaio.

    CarlOrcas: That may be it…..or porn.

  98. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 29, 2015 at 10:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    But that’s public stuff. In order for self-incrimination protection to be involved, disclosing the existence of the document or knowledge of its existence has to be incriminating. Everybody knows that these meetings happened and that Zullo knows about them. Of course, Zullo might not know how the 5th Amendment works in relationship to subpoenas for documents.

    My guess is that they are not incriminating for Zullo, but perhaps damning for Arpaio.

    First, it’s clear from reading his filing of today that he has NO idea how the system works. Hell he may have sent along his kid’s Mickey Mouse videos.

    I agree about the material being a problem for Arpaio more than Zullo. That would probably involve outs (unpublished material) from the original shoots.

    It could also be a ploy by Zullo to put pressure on the county to take care of his legal expenses. Notice that’s what he talks about needing the time for and unless there’s something in it for the county I can’t imagine them ponying up money for his expenses.

  99. avatar
    RanTalbott October 29, 2015 at 10:26 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The only other reason I can think of was that there was some way to funnel money to Zullo for his work–and there’s no evidence of that.

    iirc, there has been either testimony or a released document stating that Zullo had a vendor number with the county.

    So it might be that both of your hypothetical reasons are real: Arpaio was paying Zullo with county money for the BC snipe hunt, the Snow smear job, or both. And using the “hacking” investigation as a plausible explanation of why Zullo was there and they were showering Monty in cash.

    If there’s any truth to that, the documents in question might reveal that Arpaio was using county money for political dirty tricks.

    Or maybe the joke about porn is accidentally true: Zullo was using county money to pay a hooker, and sending videos of it to Arpaio so he’d sign off on the invoices.

    But my real guess about the videos is that they’re of Monty the Python demonstrating his “technology that most people don’t even know exists” to keep A/Z on the hook.

  100. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 30, 2015 at 12:18 am #

    That’s correct, but the only money mentioned that I know of was just travel expenses.

    RanTalbott: iirc, there has been either testimony or a released document stating that Zullo had a vendor number with the county.

  101. avatar
    bgansel9 October 30, 2015 at 1:04 am #

    CarlOrcas: It could also be a ploy by Zullo to put pressure on the county to take care of his legal expenses. Notice that’s what he talks about needing the time for and unless there’s something in it for the county I can’t imagine them ponying up money for his expenses.

    If Zullo is a volunteer, that means he’s not financially covered either, correct (despite that whole ‘posse gets MCSO police car’ thing?)

  102. avatar
    bgansel9 October 30, 2015 at 1:08 am #

    RanTalbott: If there’s any truth to that, the documents in question might reveal that Arpaio was using county money for political dirty tricks.

    It certainly wouldn’t be the first time.

  103. avatar
    Rickey October 30, 2015 at 2:17 am #

    bob: Judy so craves attention that he’s proud that he’s a punchline to sheknows.com’s joke.

    He is so unaware that he doesn’t realize that she is mocking him.

  104. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 30, 2015 at 4:09 am #

    bgansel9: If Zullo is a volunteer, that means he’s not financially covered either, correct (despite that whole ‘posse gets MCSO police car’ thing?)

    The posses pay for their own cars, from what I’ve always understood. Now whether the county gives them the official markings, etc., I don’t know.

    As far as insurance coverage is concerned I have posted the Arizona rules on workers comp (maybe Doc can find that info) and, as I recall certified reserve officers who are unpaid volunteers ARE covered but posse members EXCEPT members of “search and rescue” units (like the mounted parade units and the city posses (Sun City, etc.) are not.

    If nothing else I would expect this whole episode to prompt a thorough review of the posse system and a rethinking of how wise it is to have untrained folks running around looking and acting just like sworn officers…..like the Sun City posse does.

  105. avatar
    gorefan October 30, 2015 at 1:40 pm #

    Can some one explain what the “wiretapping numbers” are that they showed to Judge Lamberth in Washington D.C.

  106. avatar
    bovril October 30, 2015 at 1:48 pm #

    IIRC in one of the deposition dumps there was a document showing the “wiretapping numbers”

    Basically they are a set of telephone numbers with a date, time from, to, duration and tracking number.

    They APPEAR to be in a specific format and layout structure which may be a standard convention and as such when shown to Judge Lamberth may have been sufficient to say “These appear to be wiretap numbers”

  107. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 30, 2015 at 4:25 pm #

    It’s not clear to me whether Request #2 of the subpoena covers work products prior to September 1, 2013. If not, then the Cold Case Posse videos are not included.

    CarlOrcas: I agree about the material being a problem for Arpaio more than Zullo. That would probably involve outs (unpublished material) from the original shoots.

  108. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 30, 2015 at 4:34 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It’s not clear to me whether Request #2 of the subpoena covers work products prior to September 1, 2013. If not, then the Cold Case Posse videos are not included.

    If that’s the case then it will be really interesting to see what it is!