Main Menu

Zullo plays for time

H/t to Sharon Rondeau at The Post & Email. Mike Zullo has finally, himself, filed a motion with the Federal Court in the Melendres case. The Jack Ryan collection at Scribd has the full text of the motion, brought by Zullo, pro se. Zullo wants 30 days in which to convince the County to pay for an attorney, but not the same attorneys who represent Arpaio, attorneys who, writes Zullo, “have violated my constitutional rights.”

Constitutional escalation appears as Zullo adds compromise of his 6th Amendment rights to his prior assertion of the 4th and 5th. Zullo says that an unnamed attorney is assisting him, and is deciding whether to represent him.

Zullo further states that since the County attorneys do not represent him, he does not consent for them to turn over a list of documents for which he claims privilege. No help for Zullo there, as the Court has ordered that the list be turned over, and reportedly this has already happened. Zullo cites US v. Hubbell, 530 U.S. 27 (2000) on the issue of self incrimination through the disclosure of existence of documents.

Zullo claims that “[th]he Plaintiffs and their counsel have threatened me, a witness in this case, with having committed crimes in their pleadings…,” but he does not specify what those crimes are, and I do not know what they are either.

One might reasonably ask why Zullo didn’t get an attorney already, having known about the subpoena for a long time. The answer is that he thought the County was representing him, but that answer is problematic since he says it is obvious that the County attorneys aren’t acting in his interests.

, , , , , ,

93 Responses to Zullo plays for time

  1. avatar
    Pete October 29, 2015 at 11:03 pm #

    Constitutional escalation appears as Zullo adds compromise of his 6th Amendment rights to his prior assertion of the 4th and 5th… Zullo further states that since the County attorneys do not represent him, he does not consent for them to turn over a list of documents for which he claims privilege. No help for Zullo there, as the Court has ordered that the list be turned over, and reportedly this has already happened.

    How long until Zullo invokes the 21st Amendment?

  2. avatar
    Rickey October 29, 2015 at 11:28 pm #

    I don’t see how the 6th Amendment applies, considering that this is still a civil matter, and no one has yet been charged with a crime.

    I also doubt that U.S. v Hubbell applies. In that case, SCOTUS essentially ruled that the subpoena which was served upon Hubbell was overly broad (the documents which were subpoenaed from Hubbell were not described with “reasonable particularity”). In addition, Hubbell was granted immunity.

    It seems to me that the revised subpoena which was served upon Zullo was reasonably particular, and of course he has not been granted immunity.

    There is some irony in the fact that Zullo is trying to make legal claims which were used by a Whitewater defendant. Also, it does not appear to me that his motion was written by an attorney (although parts of it likely were).

  3. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 30, 2015 at 12:15 am #

    It certainly seems to me that Arpaio’s attorneys were representing Zullo when the tried to quash the subpoena on the grounds that it was too burdensome for Zullo.

    I presume that if Judge Snow doesn’t rule on the motion immediately that the ACLU will file a response, and it would be interesting to see whether they deny accusing Zullo of a crime.

  4. avatar
    bgansel9 October 30, 2015 at 12:45 am #

    So what happens if motion is denied?

  5. avatar
    Curious George October 30, 2015 at 1:49 am #

    bgansel9:
    So what happens if motion is denied?

    My guess is that the Plaintiffs will issue a subpoena for Zullo’s prompt deposition to occur as soon as possible. All of the Zullo documents held by the Defense will be turned over to the Plaintiffs. And Zullo will be on the stand late next week of his own free will or with the assistance of the U.S. Marshal Service. (IANAL but I can pretend.)

  6. avatar
    Rickey October 30, 2015 at 2:07 am #

    I certainly can understand how Zullo could have believed that he was being represented by Arpaio’s attorneys. It must have come as a shock to him to discover that he is being hung out to dry.

    This affair could end up bringing down the entire posse system in Maricopa County. Imagine acting as a volunteer posse member and being charged with police brutality for killing or injuring someone, while now knowing that if you are charged or sued Maricopa County will not provide you with a defense or indemnification. That would give me pause.

  7. avatar
    bovril October 30, 2015 at 4:33 am #

    The really insane piece is in this sad little piece of puffery, he STILL doesn’t get that he is and always has been a prop of Arpaio’s, a throw away piece and is currently slap bang in the middle of the bus lane.

    Right now, he appears to be compounding stupidity, with credulity with purblind faith in his Big Daddy.

    This “motion” seems crafted to purposely p*ss off Judge Snow and one wonders who had it crafted…..

    As far as I can see, Zullo The Klowns only possible way through is to, in effect, throw himself on the mercy of the court.

    Do full, open and truthful statements about everything he is asked about and push an “undue influence” stance for any misdeeds he may have performed under the direction of Arpaio.

    But he won’t, he’s too damn stupid so he will reap what he has been a part of sowing

  8. avatar
    Notorial Dissent October 30, 2015 at 4:46 am #

    Kommandant Zullo was living in a land of delusion to start with, most of it of his own manufacture, the rest provided by the good Shurf. It has been mentioned previously that posse members are NOT covered by the county in any way shape or form, witness the posse deputy who was helpign out in a situation and got shot and got to pay all his hospital bills, that does not sound to me like the county will step in. I don’t think Zullo is in any better position than that individual was. I have a feeling that he is right in that the Shurf’s lawyers led him a long to a degree to try and minimize the damage he might inflict, but that is just supposition, but I don’t think they could legally represent him and the Shurf both under any stretch of the imagination or legal allowances. The other factor is that Zullo is a self inflated buffoon and idiot, and really doesn’t have a clue about what he has gotten himself in to. I keep wondering when or even if he will finally figure out that there is a bus out there with his name on it being aimed by his bestest buddy, and it keeps coming back to my thinking he just isn’t that smart. Zullo has shown a remarkable amount of stupid through out this entire farce, he doesn’t to show any likelihood of wising up. I don’t think the county will touch him with a ten foot pole for fear of acquiring any more liability than what the Shurf has already handed them, which to all appearances is a great deal at this point, adn rising daily.

  9. avatar
    roadburner October 30, 2015 at 6:12 am #

    bovril:

    As far as I can see, Zullo The Klowns only possible way through is to, in effect, throw himself on the mercy of the court.

    Do full, open and truthful statements about everything he is asked about and push an “undue influence” stance for any misdeeds he may have performed under the direction of Arpaio.

    But he won’t, he’s too damn stupid so he will reap what he has been a part of sowing

    i don’t know about that. i’m starting to get the impression that reality is sinking in and he’s realising that arpaio will dump on him without a second thought if it’ll save his biggotted old hide.

    if rear admiral zullo decides to try and extract himself from this mess by laying out EVERYTHING, we’ll need a bucket for the birther tears.

  10. avatar
    Lupin October 30, 2015 at 6:30 am #

    roadburner: i don’t know about that. i’m starting to get the impression that reality is sinking in and he’s realising that arpaio will dump on him without a second thought if it’ll save his biggotted old hide.

    if rear admiral zullo decides to try and extract himself from this mess by laying out EVERYTHING, we’ll need a bucket for the birther tears.

    I’m really not an expert on all this, and it’s way beyond my fields of expertise, but it seems to me (please correct me if I’m wrong) that Zullo did not commit any actual crime; at worse may have unwittingly assisted Arpaio in the commission of said crimes.

    His best bet IMHO would be to be completely transparent, tell the whole truth etc. and be straightforward with the Court. It’s the lying and the obfuscation that may do him in, not what he really did do.

    I wouldn’t say this if people who had donated money to his cause came out & sued him, but that is not the case, is it? The gullible birthers are all happy to be fleeced and bleat about Evilbama.

  11. avatar
    Sam the Centipede October 30, 2015 at 6:54 am #

    Lupin, as always, gets to the point calmlynand clearly. What has Zullo the Klown done that is criminal? Being a bigoted, racist, gullible birther isn’t a crime. Nor is being the victim of a con. Defaming the President isn’t a crime (although it would be in some countries). Puffing up his resume on Lyin’ Carl Gallups radio rants isn’t a crime. The might be some financial and/or tax mismanagement (in fact, the lack of public records and the ambiguity of the Cold Custard Pussy’s status makes that highly probable), but that’s small potatoes.

    Zullo’s best bet is to climb onto the bus, grab a seat near the front, and reveal all, without annoying the judge further. His general line should be “hey, I’m an idiot birther suckered in by my racist hatred of the President, the general law enforcement side of the Sheriff’s office is nuthin’ to do with me. Oh yes, I’ll tell you all I know.”

    Pleading the Fifth will probably not prevent the judge from demanding answers, and will certainly make other arms of (real) law enforcement curious about what crimes Zullo the Klown commited which he wishes not to self-incriminate about.

  12. avatar
    Lupin October 30, 2015 at 7:27 am #

    On Gerbil Report, the poster known as “charlesmountain” who is just about the most stupid person there, just posted:

    “It’s pretty clear Zullo is now the new Edward Snowden times ten…”

    I am genuinely speechless as to the depth of their imbecility. To think that they walk among us like men, women (or gerbils) is dizzying.

  13. avatar
    Reality Check October 30, 2015 at 7:57 am #

    We certainly don’t have all the information but if there is a smoking gun in the recordings or emails that show Zullo was trying to dig up dirt on Judge Snow about being in cahoots with the DoJ to help Arpaio in Melendres case (or the case filed by the DoJ against Arpaio that everyone seems to have forgotten about since it settled) then there could be a case of obstruction of justice against both.

    Whether our timid DoJ would take on the conservative media by prosecuting Apraio and his favorite non-deputy remains to be seen.

    Lupin: I’m really not an expert on all this, and it’s way beyond my fields of expertise, but it seems to me (please correct me if I’m wrong) that Zullo did not commit any actual crime; at worse may have unwittingly assisted Arpaio in the commission of said crimes.

  14. avatar
    Andy October 30, 2015 at 8:35 am #

    Maybe I’m confused, but I see some issues with this motion:

    1) Zullo has had time to find a lawyer. It’s his fault for not securing one.
    2) Paying for the representation is a Zullo problem, not a judicial one.
    3) Does the Sixth Amendment apply to a witness in a civil case?

  15. avatar
    Curious George October 30, 2015 at 10:02 am #

    Rickey

    “This affair could end up bringing down the entire posse system in Maricopa County. Imagine acting as a volunteer posse member and being charged with police brutality for killing or injuring someone, while now knowing that if you are charged or sued Maricopa County will not provide you with a defense or indemnification. That would give me pause.”

    It’s my understanding that volunteers are covered by the county as long as they are working under the direction of the sheriff or a sworn deputy and not involved in a
    criminal act. With Zullo claiming the 5th during a civil action and possibly involved in a crime, the county would not be obligated, in my opinion to pay for Zullo’s criminal defense or his civil defense. (IANAL so take this with a grain of salt.)

    Notorial Dissent

    “It has been mentioned previously that posse members are NOT covered by the county in any way shape or form, witness the posse deputy who was helping out in a situation and got shot and got to pay all his hospital bills, that does not sound to me like the county will step in.”

    The posse member who was shot was not on duty and not acting under the direction of the sheriff or a sworn deputy sheriff and therefore would not be covered by the county. The posse member who was shot, was acting on his own decision and was not instructed or ordered to take action by law enfoircement authority at the MCSO . That is why the posse member was financially on his own and not covered by the county.

    If Zullo was working on a clandestine pet project in Seattle, not at the direction of the sheriff, or Detective Mackiewicz, or Sgt. Anglin, who are sworn MCSO deputies, or if Zullo was working contrary to their direct orders or the orders of Chief Sheridan, Zullo is sorry out of luck and can only blame himself for his predicament and his lack of legal coverage by the county.

  16. avatar
    Curious George October 30, 2015 at 10:09 am #

    Lupin,

    “On Gerbil Report, the poster known as “charlesmountain” who is just about the most stupid person there, just posted:

    “It’s pretty clear Zullo is now the new Edward Snowden times ten…”

    I am genuinely speechless as to the depth of their imbecility. To think that they walk among us like men, women (or gerbils) is dizzying.”

    They are delusional fools. They better wake up. Their volunteer posse man is in very big trouble, times ten!

  17. avatar
    Pete October 30, 2015 at 12:26 pm #

    Rickey: I certainly can understand how Zullo could have believed that he was being represented by Arpaio’s attorneys. It must have come as a shock to him to discover that he is being hung out to dry.

    This ain’t no *#&$@^ charity.

  18. avatar
    Pete October 30, 2015 at 1:03 pm #

    Lupin: On Gerbil Report, the poster known as “charlesmountain” who is just about the most stupid person there, just posted:

    “It’s pretty clear Zullo is now the new Edward Snowden times ten…”

    I am genuinely speechless as to the depth of their imbecility. To think that they walk among us like men, women (or gerbils) is dizzying.

    I often have a difficult time, to this day, considering that any human being could be so unfathomably, unbelievably stupid as many of these birthers.

    On the surface, it’s a very disappointing commentary on the intelligence of the human species. But you have to remember that dedicated birthers are an outlier. There are lots of people who “believe” that Obama’s ineligible because they hardly pay attention and just “believe” something they heard. There are only a very few idiots like charlesmountain. In fact, I’d say he might even make one of the top 3 birther morons.

    That would make him 1 in 100 million Americans.

    So that helps restore a bit of faith in the human race.

  19. avatar
    Dave B. October 30, 2015 at 1:29 pm #

    Perhaps he will seek refuge away from our shores.

    Lupin:
    On Gerbil Report, the poster known as “charlesmountain” who is just about the most stupid person there, just posted:

    “It’s pretty clear Zullo is now the new Edward Snowden times ten…”

    I am genuinely speechless as to the depth of their imbecility. To think that they walk among us like men, women (or gerbils) is dizzying.

  20. avatar
    Pete October 30, 2015 at 2:04 pm #

    Dave B.: Perhaps he will seek refuge away from our shores.

    john’s been mostly quiet here lately. He seems to be taking my advice that he could earn a fortune off of Zullo as a paid Legal Strategy & Defense (LSD) Consultant, with his brilliant legal defense proposals such as Zullo getting himself sprayed by a skunk in order to avoid a deposition.

    I’ll bet john is down in Zihuatanejo or somewhere right now arranging some living accommodations for Señor Zulho.

  21. avatar
    Pete October 30, 2015 at 2:26 pm #

    This holds the promise of a great new career for john. john’s next move (once he gets Zulho settled) might be to set himself up as a Sudden Criminal Invisibility Planning (SCIP) consultant for Sheriff Joe.

    That might get him into some really big money.

  22. avatar
    bob October 30, 2015 at 2:44 pm #

    Lupin: I’m really not an expert on all this, and it’s way beyond my fields of expertise, but it seems to me (please correct me if I’m wrong) that Zullo did not commit any actual crime; at worse may have unwittingly assisted Arpaio in the commission of said crimes.

    There is a lot of potential, (presently) theoretical criminal liability for Zullo. Either for things he may have done, or for (knowingly) helping someone else, like Arpaio or Montgomery, do.

    But no one really know the exact bases until someone asks Zullo a specific question. But it is easy enough of to speculate about possible bases.

    And, no, the Sixth Amendment doesn’t apply in this situation.

  23. avatar
    Rickey October 30, 2015 at 3:39 pm #

    Curious George:

    The posse member who was shot was not on duty and not acting under the direction of the sheriff or a sworn deputy sheriff and therefore would not be covered by the county.The posse member who was shot, was acting on his own decision and was not instructed or ordered to take action by law enfoircement authority at the MCSO .That is why the posse member was financially on his own and not covered by the county.

    Actually his workers’ compensation claim was denied because he was not an employee of Maricopa County. Workers’ compensation only covers employees. It doesn’t cover volunteers or independent contractors.

    Although Maricopa County is self-insured for workers’ compensation, it undoubtedly has excess insurance which kicks in for very serious claims which exceed a certain dollar threshold. Premiums for such insurance are based in part on the employer’s payroll, which means that if you aren’t on the payroll, you aren’t covered.

    If the Sheriff’s Department had truly cared about the well being of its posse members, it could have purchased medical insurance for them, but why pay if people are willing to work for free?

    Legal liability in a civil lawsuit could be a different matter. If a posse member were sued for actions committed while under the direction of a member of the Sheriff’s Department, those actions likely would create at least vicarious liability for the County, so it might be in the County’s best interests to provide a defense for the posse member. Whether it would be required to do so would depend upon the wording of the County’s liability insurance policy. Again, Maricopa County may be self-insured for liability claims, but it certainly has excess insurance to kick in on very serious claims. An excess insurer is not going to provide coverage or a defense for an individual who is not an insured under the terms of the policy.

  24. avatar
    Rickey October 30, 2015 at 3:50 pm #

    Lupin: I’m really not an expert on all this, and it’s way beyond my fields of expertise, but it seems to me (please correct me if I’m wrong) that Zullo did not commit any actual crime; at worse may have unwittingly assisted Arpaio in the commission of said crimes.

    His problem, as I see it, is that he could be charged as an accessory to a felony if it is determined that a crime was committed when Montgomery was paid to turn over classified information to Arpaio’s people.

  25. avatar
    Sef October 30, 2015 at 4:01 pm #

    Rickey: Whether it would be required to do so would depend upon the wording of the County’s liability insurance policy.

    Could you please explain how an insurance company gets to determine if one of its policy holders has legal liability.

  26. avatar
    Pete October 30, 2015 at 4:18 pm #

    New article from Lemons!

    JOE ARPAIO’S BIRTHER BUDDY SLAMS SHERIFF’S LAWYERS

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaios-birther-buddy-slams-sheriffs-lawyers-7786343

    “Plain and simple,” writes Zullo, “these lawyers have violated my constitutional rights.”

    I’m thinking one of these may come in handy:

    http://www.amazon.com/Presto-04820-PopLite-Hot-Popper/dp/B00006IUWA/

  27. avatar
    Yoda October 30, 2015 at 4:59 pm #

    I have always thought that he could be charged with fraud for soliciting donations for his phony investigation. I would love to see both he and Gallups tried for that.

  28. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 30, 2015 at 5:23 pm #

    The list of subpoenaed material being withheld includes a number of audio and video recordings. One might wonder what those were, but apparently Mike Zullo records people without their knowledge (legal in Arizona). I cite this report at The Fogbow from 2013 about Zullo recording Jill Nagamine with the State of Hawaii’s AG office, apparently without her knowledge. According to Chief Kessler, that recording was played at the secret session at the CPOSA meeting.

    http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3713&start=4950

    If Zullo does this all the time then perhaps Zullo has recording of the meetings with Dennis Montgomery that others have a hard time remembering. Zullo might be in deep doo with some people if they were recorded without their knowledge.

  29. avatar
    Jim October 30, 2015 at 5:35 pm #

    Especially if he was recording all those conversations he was having with the sheriff.

    SMOKING GUN!!! 😀

  30. avatar
    Curious George October 30, 2015 at 5:46 pm #

    I
    Rickey:

    “Workers’ compensation only covers employees. It doesn’t cover volunteers or independent contractors.”

    “On Thursday, CBS 5 News confirmed with Maricopa County that on June 20, the county formally denied Grigg’s claim for compensation. No reason was given on the denial form, but a spokeswoman for the county said Grigg was denied because he did not meet the statutory criteria for compensation.”

    “Grigg is a volunteer posse member and not on the county payroll.”

    That’s very interesting Rickey. I thought the posse member who was shot was trying to have his medical bills paid, not receive compensation for wage hours lost. Please explain to me how / why another MCSO, unpaid, volunteer posse member was covered by Maricopa County Risk Management for medical treatment for injuries he sustained while on duty as a posse member? This particular posse member was also not on the payroll of the county but all of his medical bills were picked up by the county. It all sounds pretty shady to me.

    Read more: http://www.kpho.com/story/25939522/workmans-comp-denied-to-critically-injured-mcso-posse-member#ixzz3q5aCZ9YA

  31. avatar
    bob October 30, 2015 at 5:46 pm #

    Sef: Could you please explain how an insurance company gets to determine if one of its policy holders has legal liability.

    It happens all the time. The insured submits a claim to the insurance company, and the company determines if, under the policy, it is obligated to pay the claim and/or defend the insured in court.

    If the insured is unhappy with the insurance company’s decision, the insured sues the company for breach of contract.

    So if Zullo was performing legal acts at the direction of the MCSO, and if Maricopa County has a legal duty to indemnify, then the county is obligated to provide for Zullo’s defense.

    But this is a Zullo/county problem, not a plaintiff/court problem. No need to hold up the show. These idiots’ emergency need not become other people’s problems.

  32. avatar
    Curious George October 30, 2015 at 5:51 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    “If Zullo does this all the time then perhaps Zullo has recording of the meetings with Dennis Montgomery that others have a hard time remembering. Zullo might be in deep doo with some people if they were recorded without their knowledge.”

    Especially if Zullo secretly recorded people in Washington state. If he recorded people in Washington state without them knowing, he may have violated state law. Oooops!

  33. avatar
    wrecking ball October 30, 2015 at 5:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    …but apparently Mike Zullo records people without their knowledge (legal in Arizona).

    i’ve always been under the belief that it’s only legal if the call is within that state or between another state with similar laws. is it legal to call someone and record them without their knowledge in a state where it is illegal?

  34. avatar
    wrecking ball October 30, 2015 at 7:13 pm #

    i loved this comment from BR:

    “This LFBC forgery case that was once a hot case, has obviously morphed into a ice cold case. So why not designate it as a cold case and immediately assign a brand new posse,…”

    genius!

  35. avatar
    Pete October 30, 2015 at 7:39 pm #

    wrecking ball: is it legal to call someone and record them without their knowledge in a state where it is illegal?

    No. But Arizona, Hawaii and Oregon are all one-party states. California and Washington are two-party states.

  36. avatar
    Gerry Cathcart October 30, 2015 at 7:53 pm #

    Is Zullo in peril from a civil standpoint that is related to his service to the county? Is he being sued or is the MCSO or county being sued over his actions? If any are yes, he deserves representation.

    The reasons he cites in his motion are related to his own peril from either a criminal standpoint of from the risk of civil violation of his own making. That does not deserve representation.

    Posse finances are his doing. Criminal acts are his doing. I don’t see Zullo at risk for what he was told to do unless he broke the law.

    I am not surprised that AARPaio’s lawyers filed a motion to quash for him as that could help the elderly Shurf.

    Zullo has been discarded under the bus. The old man does not need him, but Zullo could hurt him. I wonder if he was promised help from the legal assistance fund which seems to be slow in collecting money for anybody but the top two at MCSO.

  37. avatar
    bob October 30, 2015 at 8:40 pm #

    Maricopa County says “no thank you” to picking up the tab for Zullo’s legal woes.

  38. avatar
    bob October 30, 2015 at 8:48 pm #

    The judge also tells Zullo “no delay for you,” with this kicker:

    Nevertheless, in his motion to continue, Mr. Zullo cites to United States v. Hubbell, 530 U.S. 27 (2000), to assert that his Fifth Amendment rights might be infringed by the compelled production of the documents at issue. It seems to the Court that in light of the criminal issues that have been raised, Mr. Zullo may raise a credible case that the production of documents in his possession might implicate his Fifth Amendment protection against being “compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself.” U.S. Const. amend. V.

    Reading between lines: Zullo may have possessed (or currently continue to do) classified information that he’s not authorized to possess.

  39. avatar
    wrecking ball October 30, 2015 at 9:36 pm #

    Pete: California and Washington are two-party states.

    so any recording between AZ and seattle WA would have to have acknowledgement/permission from both parties, correct?

  40. avatar
    Pete October 30, 2015 at 9:53 pm #

    wrecking ball: so any recording between AZ and seattle WA would have to have acknowledgement/permission from both parties, correct?

    Yes, that’s correct. So if Zullo was recording phone conversations between himself in Arizona and Montgomery or others in Seattle, without permission of the other party, he’s guilty of a crime under Washington state law.

    Sorry, I should have noted that. Somehow I had a temporary brain freeze and was thinking Seattle was in Oregon.

  41. avatar
    gorefan October 30, 2015 at 10:03 pm #

    bob: Zullo

    Here is the quote of the day from Zullo’s short circuited deposition:

    “I want my lawyer. I need my lawyer.” Mike Zullo, October 23rd, 2015

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/287964100/1507-P-Opp-to-Zullo-Motion-w-Exhibits

  42. avatar
    Pete October 30, 2015 at 10:34 pm #

    gorefan: I want my lawyer. I need my lawyer.

    Looks like that should be: “I want my lawyer. I need a lawyer.”

  43. avatar
    Jim October 30, 2015 at 10:48 pm #

    Maybe he should claim poverty and see if the government would assign him counsel. All he needs to do is turn over the CCP’s financial records.

    Doc would like a copy too. 😀

  44. avatar
    gorefan October 30, 2015 at 11:02 pm #

    Pete: Looks like that should be: “I want my lawyer. I need a lawyer.”

    “Your” right

  45. avatar
    gorefan October 30, 2015 at 11:12 pm #

    There is also this exchange.

    The plaintiffs asked the MCSO for the CCP’s financial records (8/7/15) and the MCSO said they don’t have them because the don’t oversee the CCP.

    So they asked the CCP for the records and Zullo says the CCP doesn’t have any because they were not involved in the Seattle operation (8/15/15).

    Then MCSO submits a summary of expenses paid to Montgomery and there is a record of the CCP giving Monty $2100 apparently in November, 2013.

  46. avatar
    Rickey October 30, 2015 at 11:59 pm #

    Curious George:

    I thought the posse member who was shot was trying to have his medical bills paid, not receive compensation for wage hours lost.

    Workers’ Compensation covers both medical expenses and lost wages. In fact, most workers’ compensation claims are “medical only” claims because the employee who was injured didn’t miss any time from work.

    Please explain to me how / why another MCSO,unpaid, volunteer posse member was covered by Maricopa County Risk Management for medical treatment for injuries he sustained while on duty as a posse member? This particular posse member was also not on the payroll of the county but all of his medical bills were picked up by the county.It all sounds pretty shady to me.

    If you could provide me with some details about the incident which involved the other posse member I could try to figure it out. I have no knowledge of the other incident. It may have been a situation in which the County was at fault. A County employee who is injured on the job because of County negligence has no recourse except workers’ comp, but a volunteer in the same situation could sue the County.

    CarlOrcas mentions in another thread that Maricopa County does provides workers’ compensation to certified reserve officers who are also volunteer posse members. I do not believe that Mr. Grigg is a reserve officer, so perhaps that explains the difference.

    It would appear that Mr. Grigg lost his appeal to the Industrial Commission, because there is still a Facebook page which solicits donations to pay for his medical bills.

    Years ago I used to supervise catastrophic workers’ comp claims in Arizona, so I know a bit about how the system works.

  47. avatar
    Notorial Dissent October 31, 2015 at 12:30 am #

    This was discussed earlier, and IIRCC the county’s response was so sad too bad!!! And that he had to pay his own bills, somewhere in the $50K range I saw at one point.

  48. avatar
    gorefan October 31, 2015 at 1:02 am #

    Zullo was still working on the BC with Montgomery as late as May, 2015.

    “I still don’t have the birth certificate finished only you could control that.” e-mail Zullo to Montgomery May 22nd, 2015

    When Montgomery says that the MCSO should not have spent money on the judges court order in the Melendres case but instead spent on the DOJ involvement with Covington, Zullo answers “yep”.

  49. avatar
    RanTalbott October 31, 2015 at 2:28 am #

    Notorial Dissent: IIRCC the county’s response was so sad too bad!!!

    I’m pretty sure you’re right, but I’m also pretty sure I read that the Shurf passed the hat for him. Don’t recall reading how much he raised, but there was probably enough public sympathy to cover his bills.

    gorefan: e-mail Zullo to Montgomery May 22nd, 2015

    Wasn’t that a month to the day after Zullo’s no-really-we’re-serious-this-time-we’ll-fire-your-ass deadline?

    Pete: How long until Zullo invokes the 21st Amendment?

    I believe that schooner has sailed: remember the photo of Zullo in Seattle that Lemons uses in just about every story about him?

  50. avatar
    Notorial Dissent October 31, 2015 at 3:22 am #

    AS I recall, they ended up doing a begathon for him, but the county basically told him to pound sand. So I don’t really see the county coming to Zullo’s rescue.

  51. avatar
    Reality Check October 31, 2015 at 7:22 am #

    And that directly contradicts what Lyin’ Carl Gallups has been saying for months. He has said several times that the birth certificate investigation is done and it’s all wrapped up. He even said “put a bow on it”. I believe Zullo may have even said something like that.

    gorefan: Zullo was still working on the BC with Montgomery as late as May, 2015.

  52. avatar
    alg October 31, 2015 at 8:47 am #

    I am surprised Arpaio hasn’t demanded one of his underlings “get Zullo a **cking lawyer” and pay for it out of RICO funds.

    😉

  53. avatar
    Bob October 31, 2015 at 9:54 am #

    Another option for Commander Zullo is to forge some identity papers and go underground.

  54. avatar
    Reality Check October 31, 2015 at 10:11 am #

    He could become “Harrison Bounel”. 😆

    Bob:
    Another option for Commander Zullo is to forge some identity papers and go underground.

  55. avatar
    gorefan October 31, 2015 at 10:26 am #

    Reality Check:
    And that directly contradicts what Lyin’ Carl Gallups has been saying for months. He has said several times that the birth certificate investigation is done and it’s all wrapped up. He even said “put a bow on it”.I believe Zullo may have even said something like that.

    IMO, it also shows that Zullo still believes that the Monty stuff is real.

    In fact the more I read the email exchanges and other stuff, the more I think that the whole DOJ/Snow conspiracy was dreamed up by Monty and that A/Z thought it was real.

  56. avatar
    Pete October 31, 2015 at 10:42 am #

    RanTalbott: I believe that schooner has sailed: remember the photo of Zullo in Seattle that Lemons uses in just about every story about him?

    That was merely recreational. I’m talking about for serious medicinal purposes.

    Or, one could say, as part of his defense.

  57. avatar
    Curious George October 31, 2015 at 10:49 am #

    Rickey:

    “CarlOrcas mentions in another thread that Maricopa County does provides workers’ compensation to certified reserve officers who are also volunteer posse members. I do not believe that Mr. Grigg is a reserve officer, so perhaps that explains the difference.”

    The posse man injured while on duty as a volunteer posse man received compensation from the county risk management for his injuries and he was NOT a certified reserve officer with the MCSO. This is contrary to the state statute noted previously by CarlOrcas.

  58. avatar
    Curious George October 31, 2015 at 11:09 am #

    It really must suck to be Zullo. Mikey, here’s a song that may predict your future:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FPp4qb-phrA

  59. avatar
    gorefan October 31, 2015 at 11:43 am #

    Bob:
    Another option for Commander Zullo is to forge some identity papers and go underground.

    He should think about doing that before he gets “Armendarized”

  60. avatar
    Dave B. October 31, 2015 at 11:47 am #

    Without the mustache, he’d be unrecognizable. He would, of course, have to do something about that distinctive sotto voce whine.

    Reality Check: He could become “Harrison Bounel”. 😆

    Bob:
    Another option for Commander Zullo is to forge some identity papers and go underground.

  61. avatar
    gorefan October 31, 2015 at 11:47 am #

    Reality Check: Zullo

    The whole Montgomery escapade reminds me of the story Brian Reilly told about their trip to Washington.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2014/03/banned-birther-breaks-br-censorship-barrier/

    “We were in Washington to follow up on some leads. We were sitting in the black GMC rental vehicle when Zullo suddenly told us that we needed to turn off our cell-phones and put them in the vehicle glove box. We quickly complied. He shut the glove box door. Suddenly, Commander Zullo began to tell us in a seriously hushed tone how Lord Monckton said that he could arrange to have British Intelligence, MI-6 give the Cold Case Posse investigators protection.”

    Makes one wonder if he has ever sent money to Nigeria.

  62. avatar
    Pete October 31, 2015 at 11:53 am #

    The comments at Lemons’ latest article are entertaining.

    Looks like Arapio has left Zullo, um, swinging in the wind.

  63. avatar
    Reality Check October 31, 2015 at 11:57 am #

    I see Susan Daniels is not a fan of Zullo.

    Pete:
    The comments at Lemons’ latest article are entertaining.

  64. avatar
    Pete October 31, 2015 at 11:58 am #

    gorefan: “We were in Washington to follow up on some leads. We were sitting in the black GMC rental vehicle when Zullo suddenly told us that we needed to turn off our cell-phones and put them in the vehicle glove box. We quickly complied. He shut the glove box door. Suddenly, Commander Zullo began to tell us in a seriously hushed tone how Lord Monckton said that he could arrange to have British Intelligence, MI-6 give the Cold Case Posse investigators protection.”

    Rotfl.

  65. avatar
    Dave B. October 31, 2015 at 12:04 pm #

    Susan Daniels certainly seems miffed.

    Pete: http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaios-birther-buddy-slams-sheriffs-lawyers-7786343

  66. avatar
    Lupin October 31, 2015 at 12:15 pm #

    Dave B.:
    Susan Daniels certainly seems miffed.

    This is a quote from the last (chronologically) document seeming written by Zullo:

    “Having just been informed the firm and attorneys for Jones, Skelton & Hochuli now take the position of never having and are not representing me, despite their having said so in the past thereby misleading me in this regard, and are now in possession of documentation. erroneously obtained from me and therefore have no legal authority to possess it.

    I think he’s starting to write like Cody.

  67. avatar
    gorefan October 31, 2015 at 12:41 pm #

    Reality Check: I see Susan Daniels is not a fan of Zullo.

    Daniels started out working with Zullo but the CCP downplayed her big thing the social security number. She complained on one of the shows that Zullo was wrong and going in the wrong direct.

    Zullo said this about Daniels,

    “I received a call from Bill’s widow [Bill Wolf who gave Zullo $10,000] and I can’t begin to tell you the pain that is been inflicted upon this woman who is still wrestling with the death of her husband. I’ve come to learn that it was Susan Daniels that was the one who contacted Mrs. Wolff to make the inquiry. It is apparent to me that Brian Reilly and Susan Daniels, and one other person I know of, are now working in concert to try to bring discredit to me personally.”

    http://ppsimmons.blogspot.com/2014/11/cbs-5-phoenix-runs-seven-minute-hit.html#comment-form

    And Mark Gillar said this about her,

    “I’d be happy to explain. I ended my relationship with Susan Daniels well over a year ago. She was going on and on one day (during a phone conversation) about how Arpaio had pocketed $8 million dollars earned because of the birth certificate investigation. I told her that the money was donated for his political campaign and spent on his political campaign. She replied that I was naïve if I didn’t believe he could have found a way to put most of that money in his pocket. At that point, Susan turned on me for defending Arpaio and Zullo. It became very clear to me that staying friends with Susan Daniels was contingent upon my accepting her wild theory 100% without any wiggle room for disagreement even when she was admittedly spouting an uninformed, unproven theory . One had to either agree with her fully or encounter her verbal abuse along with the loss of her friendship. I chose to end the friendship. It is a decision I haven’t regretted. BTW, I was told by a member of the Wolf family that it was Susan Daniels who made the initial inquiry regarding the $10,000 gift. I’m not relying on rumors or opinions the way a certain CBS broadcaster does. There are a number of former associates of the Cold Case Posse with whom I choose to have nothing to do with. Susan Daniels is very high on that list.”

    http://www.obamareleaseyourrecords.com/2014/11/latest-sheriff-arpaios-lead-obama-id.html

  68. avatar
    Dave B. October 31, 2015 at 1:33 pm #

    Well now.

    gorefan:
    Gillar: “It became very clear to me that staying friends with Susan Daniels was contingent upon my accepting her wild theory 100% without any wiggle room for disagreement even when she was admittedly spouting an uninformed, unproven theory .”

  69. avatar
    Pete October 31, 2015 at 1:39 pm #

    gorefan: It became very clear to me that staying friends with Susan Daniels was contingent upon my accepting her wild theory 100% without any wiggle room for disagreement even when she was admittedly spouting an uninformed, unproven theory .

    Because Mark Gillar would never, ever have anything to do with spouting an uninformed, unproven theory.

  70. avatar
    Pete October 31, 2015 at 1:41 pm #

    I am just laughing and laughing over this. The whole thing is just so *#)@$ insane, from start to finish.

  71. avatar
    Pete October 31, 2015 at 1:55 pm #

    Just unbelievable, when you step back and take a look at it all.

    Because the President’s father was from Kenya, someone starts a rumor that the President of the United States was born in Kenya and is not eligible to be President.

    People demand documentation that the President was born in Hawaii as claimed, so he publicly releases it.

    People then demand more documentation, so the President gets and releases the long-form documentation, including posting a perfectly good image.

    Someone doesn’t understand the machine construction of the image file, so they idiotically claim that the image is a fake.

    Hundreds of people argue about it over the internet. Millions of Americans believe the false rumors.

    The sheriff of one of the largest urban counties in America calls an “investigation” and then a press conference, in which he solemnly declares that the President’s perfectly good birth certificate is a “forgery.”

    He then uses those bullsh*t claims to raise millions of dollars from gullible suckers, all quite openly and in broad daylight.

    He recruits a used-car salesman and lets him use ostentatious but meaningless titles to go on radio and publicly represent that all the bullsh*t is, in fact, true.

    Diehard supporters refuse to believe they’ve been taken.

    Meanwhile, the sheriff himself does illegal cr*p and in fact downright refuses to obey the law, including a federal court order.

    The sheriff also uses the used-car salesman to “investigate” a phony conspiracy involving the federal judge in the case.

    When the guano finally hits the rotating blades, the sheriff leaves the used-car salesman swinging in the wind. “Representing you? Hell, we ain’t paying for YOUR legal bills.”

    Former members of the same BS team turn on each other.

    One of them says he won’t associate with another because of her “unproven theories.”

    I mean, if you were writing a fictional farce, you couldn’t make this cr*p up.

  72. avatar
    gorefan October 31, 2015 at 3:18 pm #

    The ACLU requested from the MCSO the following (from Exhibit F):

    “Any and all records, notes, reports, memoranda, financial documents, audits, copies of financial checks, copies or records of cashier checks, records of electronic transfers, and similar accounting for any and all MCSO Posse funds – to include but not limited to 501(c)3 donations – which were directly, constructively or vicariously provided to Posse member Mike Zullo from January 1, 2012 to present which in any manner are associated with the Seattle investigation.”

    8/07/2015 response from Lee Ann Bohn, Chief of Administrations to Captain Russ Skinner, Court Implementation Division

    “Nothing in response to this request. All posse funds are managed by posse volunteers. The Sheriff’s Office has no knowledge, oversight, or access to financial reports, documents, audits or any other of the aforementioned documents for posses.”

    8/05/2015 response from Sgt. Romney, Enforcement Support Division to Captain Russ Skinner, Court Implementation Division

    “The Enforcement Support Division does not have any documents responsive to the listed request.”

    8/05/2015 response from Mike Zullo P6980 to Captain Russ Skinner, Court Implementation Division

    “It would be absolutely impossible for the Cold Case Posse or myself to have any involvement on any level with any activity regarding the “Seattle Operation” in calendar year 2012, for the very simple and well documented fact, undeniably confirming the “Seattle Operation” did not commence until October 2013, some 22 months later.”

    “Regarding calendar year 2013, it would be impossible for there to have been any involment on any level for the first 9 months of calendar year 2013, or any time prior to October 2013, for the very simple and well documented fact that the “Seattle Operation” did not commence until late October 2013, some 22 months later.”

    “Additionally, the subject, persons and related activities involving with the “Seattle Operation” were not known to either myself, the Cold Case Posse or the Maricopa Sheriff’s Office prior to October 2013.”

    “Cold Case posse members were not aware of the “Seattle Operation” investigation until such information was released by the Press.”

    “The “Seattle Operation” investigation was being conducted by the MCSO and not the Cold Case Posse.”

    The Cold Case Posse had NO involvement with the MCSO “Seattle Operation” nor did it provide any support on any level.

    “My participation was that of an “individual activation” separate from the branch known as The Cold Case Posse, as prescribed under the general MCSO Posse Program guidelines GJ-27. This activations (sic) was not a posse branch activation, therefor (sic) no member of the Cold Case Posse or the Cold Case Posse organization was authorized to assist in this manner on any level. No Cold Case Posse activities were conducted in this matter to date. I have no such records.”

    From Exhibit G

    “Items bought by the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office, Cold Case Posse

    “December 6th, 2014 – 2,100 for video processing card for computer”

    Total –
    8,100.00 MCSO Funds
    400.00 Personal Cash
    2,100.00 Posse Funds

  73. avatar
    Nancy R Owens October 31, 2015 at 3:44 pm #

    Dumb question: “I don’t suppose this info is available online anywhere, is it?”

    gorefan:
    The ACLU requested from the MCSO the following (from Exhibit F):

    [Quoted material deleted to save space. Doc.]

  74. avatar
    Pete October 31, 2015 at 4:43 pm #

    So, are we talking some species of perjury here?

  75. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 31, 2015 at 6:15 pm #

    Yes.

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/287983301/Melendres-1507-10-MCSO-Knight-Response-to-Monitor-Request-Re-Seattle-Op-Docs-Info

    Nancy R Owens: Dumb question: “I don’t suppose this info is available online anywhere, is it?”

  76. avatar
    Rickey October 31, 2015 at 11:41 pm #

    Curious George:

    The posse man injured while on duty as a volunteer posse man received compensation from the county risk management for his injuries and he was NOT a certified reserve officer with the MCSO.This is contrary to the state statute noted previously by CarlOrcas.

    As I said before, it you can provide me with some specifics about the incident involving the injured posse member who was granted compensation I’ll be happy to try to figure it out. What is the man’s name? What were the circumstances of his injury? Did the county handle it as a workers’ compensation claim, or something else?

    Without details all I can do is speculate. Do you have a link to a news story?

  77. avatar
    Curious George November 1, 2015 at 12:46 am #

    gorefan,

    Mike Zullo:

    “Additionally, the subject, persons and related activities involving with the “Seattle Operation” were not known to either myself, the Cold Case Posse or the Maricopa Sheriff’s Office prior to October 2013.”

    According to my understanding Tim Blixseth introduced Dennis Montgomery to CCP Commander Mike Zullo & MCSO law enforcement in October of 2013. Also detailed in one spreadsheet are various names including an individual by the name of “Flynn.”

    It looks like there may be a problem Houston. Doc C reported that a source had told him that Arpaio (MCSO) and Mike Zullo (CCP) met with Tim Blixseth and his attorney Michael Flynn in June of 2012. Was this the meeting that led to the Seattle Operation? Was this the meeting to determine if the marks were stupid enough to take the bait?

    One thing is certain. It would seem that we’re not getting the full story from Zullo.

  78. avatar
    Curious George November 1, 2015 at 12:52 am #

    Rickey,
    There was no news story and no link. The person really wasn’t interested in giving more details. But I trust the information that I was provided. It looks like things are pretty flexible in Maricopa County government.

  79. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) November 1, 2015 at 6:44 am #

    My take on the deposition:

    1. Arpaio’s counsel claims not to represent Zullo but tries to raise objections in his favour styled as “ethics issues” anyway. Fishy.

    2. Zullo appears to throw the county under the bus – does he think he can delay his deposition by claiming he first has to sue the county into representing him?

    3. Any other delay (“I couldn’t find a lawyer”) is childish; does he really think that will do more than delay the inevitable? Or does he think there’s still some “deal” to be reached that will make his deposition unnecessary?
    Or does he rather go to jail for contempt (and remain a birfer hero) than testify?

  80. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 1, 2015 at 7:28 am #

    I think that the simplest explanation is the best.

    Zullo still believes (as does Mackiewizc) that Montgomery had some real information.

    Zullo actually believes that his involvement with Montgomery could result in criminal prosecution because Montgomery had stolen government data.

    Zullo really did believe that the County was representing him (a not unreasonable position, by the way).

    Zullo is really looking for a lawyer (probably pro bono).

    Judge Snow has denied Zullo’s request for a 30-day delay, but is taking seriously Zullos’s 5th Amendment claims.

  81. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 1, 2015 at 7:39 am #

    Dennis Montgomery was not party to that meeting, and from what I know he was not a topic of discussion.

    Curious George: It looks like there may be a problem Houston. Doc C reported that a source had told him that Arpaio (MCSO) and Mike Zullo (CCP) met with Tim Blixseth and his attorney Michael Flynn in June of 2012. Was this the meeting that led to the Seattle Operation? Was this the meeting to determine if the marks were stupid enough to take the bait?

  82. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 1, 2015 at 7:49 am #

    I recall that there was an incident involving a posse member, Philip Grigg, who was shot while trying to assist an officer. See:

    http://archive.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/20131231phoenix-police-involved-shooting-abrk.html

    I also recall that there was some controversy at the time regarding whether his medical bills would be paid for by the County, and that in the end the County did not. See:

    https://www.facebook.com/Prayers-and-Donations-for-Maricopa-County-Posse-Member-Phillip-Grigg-1386590508232335/

    Rickey: As I said before, it you can provide me with some specifics about the incident involving the injured posse member who was granted compensation I’ll be happy to try to figure it out.

  83. avatar
    Notorial Dissent November 1, 2015 at 12:31 pm #

    I think that if we accept that Zullo is as really really stupid and gullible as he appears to be, then this makes perfect sense and explains a lot of his behavior. Must remember that at all times Zullo is an idiot.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I think that the simplest explanation is the best.

    Zullo still believes (as does Mackiewizc) that Montgomery had some real information.

    Zullo actually believes that his involvement with Montgomery could result in criminal prosecution because Montgomery had stolen government data.

    Zullo really did believe that the County was representing him (a not unreasonable position, by the way).

    Zullo is really looking for a lawyer (probably pro bono).

    Judge Snow has denied Zullo’s request for a 30-day delay, but is taking seriously Zullos’s 5th Amendment claims.

  84. avatar
    Rickey November 1, 2015 at 12:52 pm #

    Curious George:
    Rickey,
    There was no news story and no link. The person really wasn’t interested in giving more details. But I trust the information that I was provided.It looks like things are pretty flexible in Maricopa County government.

    If it involved a relatively minor injury, it’s possible that a lower-level claims employee in Risk Management mistakenly agreed to accept the claim. Mistakes do happen, and once a workers’ comp claim is accepted it is extremely difficult to rescind the acceptance.

    Also, in my time in Arizona (which admittedly was 35 years ago), it was common practice to “buy out” questionable minor claims in order to save on legal expenses. For example, the insurance company would tell the employee “We don’t believe that your claim in compensable. However, we will pay you $XX if you will agree to not challenge the denial.”

    I once reviewed a claim by an employee of the Colorado Spring Gazette who had a key to his office. One Saturday night he went to his office to retrieve a bottle of booze which he had stashed in his desk. He was so drunk that when he was leaving he fell down the stairs and was injured. For some inexplicable reason, the claims person accepted it as compensable, even though the employee clearly was not in the course of his employment when it happened. When we discovered the goof we tried to rescind the acceptance, but we lost.

    The point is that mistakes are made, but the law is quite clear that only employees are entitled to workers’ compensation. Maricopa County should have taken care of Mr. Grigg, but there was no legal obligation to do so. The fact that the county has been bleeding cash because of Arpaio may have had something to do with it.

  85. avatar
    Rickey November 1, 2015 at 1:05 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in):

    Or does he rather go to jail for contempt (and remain a birfer hero) than testify?

    Zullo can’t be jailed for contempt for taking the Fifth unless (a) he is granted immunity and still refuses to testify, or (b) Judge Snow rules that his testimony would not tend to incriminate him. Judge Snow has already indicated that he believes that Zullo probably has the right to take the Fifth.

    If I were Zullo and not represented by an attorney, I would take the Fifth. What does he have to lose? Judge Snow could then make all of the negative inferences in the world, but Zullo is a non-party witness. The negative inferences could be used against Arpaio and the other defendants, but not against Zullo. If Zullo were later to be charged with a criminal offense, the fact that he took the Fifth in the civil case could not be used against him.

  86. avatar
    Curious George November 1, 2015 at 4:51 pm #

    Rickey,
    Thank you very much for your reply. My thought is that posse members must be considered employees, otherwise Zullo would not have freaked out when he saw the footnote in Wang’s filing that listed possible criminal violations by MCSO personnel. Zullo must think that he is an employee.

  87. avatar
    RanTalbott November 1, 2015 at 5:55 pm #

    Curious George: Zullo must think that he is an employee.

    Not necessarily. Consider this scenario: your friend asks you for a lift to the liquor store. The next day, you read that someone (apparently him, based on the timing described in the news story) robbed the store and killed the owner while you were waiting for him in the car.

    Do you calmly think “Boy, it’s lucky I wasn’t in on it”? Or do you freak out and think “Holy 541t! Felony Murder Rule! I don’t wanna get executed! I need a lawyer!”?

    Being/not being an employee won’t matter if Zullo was helping them in something determined to be illegal. He needs a lawyer, with access to _all_ the facts, not just the tiny subset being given out to the public.

  88. avatar
    Rickey November 1, 2015 at 8:14 pm #

    Curious George:

    Thank you very much for your reply.My thought is that posse members must be considered employees, otherwise Zullo would not have freaked out when he saw the footnote in Wang’s filing that listed possible criminal violations by MCSO personnel.Zullo must think that he is an employee.

    That’s certainly a possibility. He is dumb enough to be a birther, so he could be dumb enough to not know the difference between being a volunteer or being an employee.

    I am certain of one thing – if posse member Grigg had been considered an employee, he would have won his appeal with the Industrial Commission. I don’t believe that the fact that he acted on his own had anything to do with it. He was responding to an emergency, and It wouldn’t be reasonable to expect him to wait for permission o4 instructions before getting involved.

    We don’t have anything comparable to posses here in New York, but we do have volunteer fire departments. My brother is a volunteer fireman, so I’m going to ask him what provisions they make for members who are injured while responding to fires and other emergencies.

  89. avatar
    Rickey November 1, 2015 at 8:26 pm #

    An example of someone who was jailed for contempt for taking the Fifth was Susan McDougal during the Whitewater investigation. Ken Starr granted her immunity if she testified about the Clintons’ involvement with Whitewater.

    The catch was that she had to testify truthfully, and she would have testified that the Clintons had not done anything wrong. She believed that Starr would charge her with perjury if she testified that the Clintons were innocent, so she opted to be jailed for civil contempt rather than face perjury charges. Subsequently she was indicted for criminal contempt but she was acquitted.

  90. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 1, 2015 at 8:31 pm #

    Zullo is not the only person with that problem. This is from a MCSO 2012 training manual:

    “Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office training provides clear direction to ensure all employees lawfully, effectively, and ethically carry out their duties as deputies, detention officers, civilians and posse volunteers. At every level from entry position to command staff, employees are trained and will continue to receive training and education to receive the knowledge and retain the skills needed to consistently carry out their duties as intended.”

    http://www.mcso.org/Multimedia/PDF/2012-Integrity_Accountability_Community.pdf

    Rickey: That’s certainly a possibility. He is dumb enough to be a birther, so he could be dumb enough to not know the difference between being a volunteer or being an employee.

  91. avatar
    Pete November 1, 2015 at 11:12 pm #

    The dumb is strong in the MCSO.

  92. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 2, 2015 at 11:26 am #

    This is from a Sheriff’s Office memorandum, dated 7-31-2012. It states:

    11. Benefits and Liability:

    A Posse member is covered under the County’s self-insured liability program while performing his duties at the direction of the Sheriff.

    A. As specified in Arizona Revised Statutes, and pursuant to the current Maricopa County Board of Supervisors’ Resolution, a Posse member is covered under the County’s self -insured program for Workers’ Compensation while performing
    duties at the direction of the Sheriff.

    B. The basis for computing compensation and premium payments can be obtained by contacting the Office Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) Coordinator.

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/216176661/GJ-27-Sheriff-s-Posse-Program-1

    Rickey: If it involved a relatively minor injury, it’s possible that a lower-level claims employee in Risk Management mistakenly agreed to accept the claim. Mistakes do happen, and once a workers’ comp claim is accepted it is extremely difficult to rescind the acceptance.

  93. avatar
    gorefan November 2, 2015 at 11:46 am #

    Isn’t this the document he cited as proof he was not working for the CCP on the Seattle Operation?

    It only lists two levels active member or inactive member. And this appears to be the only part about activation.

    “Posse members have no law enforcement authority. Since the Sheriff must summon the individual or Posse branch for assistance, the Posse carries no law enforcement authority until an individual is qualified to assist with law enforcement functions and is activated. Once activated, the authority is limited to the conditions of the call out. A Posse member is only vested with law enforcement powers of arrest when an Office deputy or reserve deputy car commander directs him to make an arrest.”

    FYI – WND article on the five member CCP team to investigate the birth certificate.

    http://www.wnd.com/2011/09/346201/