The occasional open thread: waiting for the other shoe to drop

Posted on October 19, 2012 by Dr. Conspiracy

Post your Obama conspiracy comments here not related to the other current articles. Comments will close after two weeks.

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152 Responses to The occasional open thread: waiting for the other shoe to drop

  1. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 19, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Birther legal losses now 165. Wins 0.

  3. Majority Will says:
    October 19, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    I voted today for the reelection of President Obama.

    Advance voting rocks.

    I only wish I lived in a swing state so my vote would make more of a difference.

  5. donna says:
    October 19, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    Salt Lake Tribune Endorses Obama

    The PRESIDENT HAS EARNED A SECOND TERM.

    ROMNEY, IN WHATEVER GUISE, DOES NOT DESERVE A FIRST.

    The Salt Lake Tribune endorses President Obama over Mitt Romney, the candidate “we knew, or thought we knew, as one of us.”

    “Sadly, it is not the only Romney, as his campaign for the White House has made abundantly clear, first in his servile courtship of the tea party in order to win the nomination, and now as the party’s shape-shifting nominee. From his embrace of the party’s radical right wing, to subsequent portrayals of himself as a moderate champion of the middle class, Romney has raised the most frequently asked question of the campaign: ‘Who is this guy, really, and what in the world does he truly believe?’

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/romney-obama-state-president.html.csp

  6. Joey says:
    October 19, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    It looks like Maricopa County Cold Case Posse’ Lead Investigator Mike Zullo is not impressed with Dr. Conspiracy and the debunking that goes on here.
    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/10/joe_arpaio_birther_obama_mike_zullo_orly_taitz.php

  7. donna says:
    October 19, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    Joey: It looks like Maricopa County Cold Case Posse’ Lead Investigator Mike Zullo is not impressed with Dr. Conspiracy and the debunking that goes on here.

    ALWAYS consider the source!!!!!!

  8. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    October 19, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    I’m loving all of the birther-on-birther hate that’s going on.
    It’s like watching a special needs edition of Street Fighter II.

  9. Northland10 says:
    October 19, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    I’m loving all of the birther-on-birther hate that’s going on.
    It’s like watching a special needs edition of Street Fighter II.

    I thoroughly disliked the Jerry Springer show, but I might have watched if it had a birther on birther cat fight. The idea of Orly and Sheriff Joe ending up shirtless does frighten me.

  10. RuhRoh says:
    October 19, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    One of Orly’s supporters, James Whelan, purchased a banner ad on Drudge Report to advertise her IN hearing Monday.

  11. ASK Esq says:
    October 19, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    Not Obama related, but was anyone else not surprised to find out that the voter registration cards in Maricopa County had the wrong election date on the Spanish side? I’m sure it was just an accident.

    http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/10/18/arizona-county-lists-wrong-election-date-on-spanish-language-voter-documents/?xid=rss-topstories

  12. JPotter says:
    October 20, 2012 at 12:37 am

    Joey: It looks like Maricopa County Cold Case Posse’ Lead Investigator Mike Zullo is not impressed with Dr. Conspiracy and the debunking that goes on here.

    So… the Cold Cut Posse isn’t interested in court action, they want a Congressional investigation. Good for tham, as that is probably the right direction …. if something were actually amiss. I’d love to hear all about their earnest efforts to get such an investigation going ….. ! It would only take one well-placed Senator or Rep …. juuussssst one! 😉

  13. richCares says:
    October 20, 2012 at 1:17 am

    the Salt Lake Tribune Endorses Obama: Too Many Mitts, can’t decide who he is
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/endorsement-romney-obama-president.html.csp

  14. misha marinsky says:
    October 20, 2012 at 1:41 am

    richCares: the Salt Lake Tribune Endorses Obama: Too Many Mitts, can’t decide who he is

    Which way is the wind blowing?

  15. Keith says:
    October 20, 2012 at 3:07 am

    ASK Esq:
    Not Obama related, but was anyone else not surprised to find out that the voter registration cards in Maricopa County had the wrong election date on the Spanish side? I’m sure it was just an accident.

    http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/10/18/arizona-county-lists-wrong-election-date-on-spanish-language-voter-documents/?xid=rss-topstories

    I expect it was an innocent mistake.

    As much as I despise the Maricopa County Neanderthals, I can’t believe they would do this as a calculated ploy.

    What I am interested in is how are they going to fix it with causing a shit fight in the courts over the process for the next 3 years.

  16. American Mzungu says:
    October 20, 2012 at 8:48 am

    I’m trying to catch up on the news of the week. One thing that surpised me is that Dinesh D’Souza has been fired as the head of King’s College.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/19/us-usa-people-dsouza-idUSBRE89I12G20121019

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/18/dinesh-d-souza-resigns-presidency-of-the-king-s-college.html

    There are many more results about this scandal with a Google search D’ Souza or the “other woman” in this case. In this case, not only has the other shoe dropped—it’s now raining shoes.

  17. ASK Esq says:
    October 20, 2012 at 9:49 am

    Keith: I expect it was an innocent mistake.

    As much as I despise the Maricopa County Neanderthals, I can’t believe they would do this as a calculated ploy.

    What I am interested in is how are they going to fix it with causing a shit fight in the courts over the process for the next 3 years.

    If it had been any other county, or if the error had shown up on the English side as well, I’d be a lot more willing to assume incompetence in this case as I usually do as a default. Yes, it probably was a simple unintentional error, but the anti-Latino sentiment in certain corners of Maricopa’s government makes this seem awfully suspicious.

  18. Joe Acerbic says:
    October 20, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    Keith: I expect it was an innocent mistake.

    As much as I despise the Maricopa County Neanderthals, I can’t believe they would do this as a calculated ploy.

    A simple test: has there ever been a “mistake” like this in any election, any county, anywhere that had a potential negative effect on the white/republican vote?

  19. JPotter says:
    October 20, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    American Mzungu: I’m trying to catch up on the news of the week. One thing that surpised me is that Dinesh D’Souza has been fired as the head of King’s College.

    It was a hilarious surprise that he got busted at this time, not that he had something to be busted about. Guess where mudslingers get the mud?

  20. Keith says:
    October 20, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Joe Acerbic: A simple test: has there ever been a “mistake” like this in any election, any county, anywhere that had a potential negative effect on the white/republican vote?

    I dunno. Why does it matter? Are we talking Gamblers Fallacy here?

    Or are you postulating that it is linked to the voter suppression going on back east?

  21. misha marinsky says:
    October 20, 2012 at 9:14 pm

    American Mzungu: One thing that surpised me is that Dinesh D’Souza has been fired as the head of King’s College.

    I’m not. All those evangelicals are hypocrites. Remember George Rekkers, an evangelical minister? He was caught with a rent boy.

  22. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 20, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    In December of 2011, 60% of commenters here said that Mitt Romney would be the Republican Nominee.

  23. LW says:
    October 20, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    Does it count that I’ve said for several years that the GOP nominee will be a white guy with great hair?

    And of course, I was especially tickled when he picked Ryan as his running mate.

  24. American Mzungu says:
    October 20, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    Dinesh D’ Souza is facile with words. If you can sell the notion that Obama is controlled by the anti-colonialist ideas of a father he never met, it should be a piece of cake to sell the notion that you are repentant for your sin and ask for an opportunity to demonstrate your redemption. I’d bet that D’ Souza studied the rich history of evangelicals caught in compromising situations who managed to survive.

    From the press reports he did not appear ready to prostrate himself before the board asking for forgiveness; he seemed ready to take the money he made from the movie and run. Again, from the press reports it seems there was great dissatisfaction with the job he had been doing and the direction he wanted to take the school. That’s what really did him in, IMO.

    However, I don’t think we’ve heard the last of D’ Souza. He’s so full of himself that a failed marriage, a girl-friend problem, and a failed college presidency is just material for his next book.

  25. LW says:
    October 21, 2012 at 12:18 am

    Pretty much. If there’s anything we’ve learned from the last couple of years, it’s that the latest crop of crapslingers carry a strain of hubris far beyond anything heretofore syntheisized in the labs; they will proudly tell and retell their story (“Obamacare raided $716B from Medicare!”) even when they’ve been called out, and it’s crystal clear there’s not even a shred of doubt that what they’re selling is unmitigated and utter balderdash.

  26. misha marinsky says:
    October 21, 2012 at 12:38 am

    American Mzungu: I’d bet that D’ Souza studied the rich history of evangelicals caught in compromising situations who managed to survive.

    Yeah, like Jimmy Swaggart. He thought PTL stood for ‘pay the lady.’

    “I have sinned.” [Said in a Louisiana accent.]

  27. Joe Acerbic says:
    October 21, 2012 at 1:08 am

    Keith: I dunno. Why does it matter? Are we talking Gamblers Fallacy here?

    Or are you postulating that it is linked to the voter suppression going on back east?

    I’m saying that somehow these kind of “mistakes” always seem to affect demographics so that it’s likely to reduce Democratic votes..

    “Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action.”

  28. JPotter says:
    October 21, 2012 at 1:26 am

    Mister Romney’s Neighborhood

    Catching up with my DVR, just watched the 10/9/12 episode of Late Night with Jimmy Fallon. If you haven’t seen this clip, it’s a must! Fallon knocks it out of the park!

    The sketch was followed by a segment with Christopher Walken, in which he and Fallon reminisced about “Cowbell”. Had me in tears!

    Full episode

  29. misha marinsky says:
    October 21, 2012 at 1:37 am

    Joe Acerbic: “Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action.”

    One Russian is a revolution.
    Two Russians is the Red Army.
    Three Russians is the Kremlin.
    Four Russians is the Budapest String Quartet.

  30. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 21, 2012 at 8:41 am

    If you would like to collect some data, BlackBoxVoting.org is a great source of information on elections fraud, although it’s not comprehensive. See also.

    The greater temptation to cheat is on the side that can’t win without it.

    Joe Acerbic: I’m saying that somehow these kind of “mistakes” always seem to affect demographics so that it’s likely to reduce Democratic votes.

  31. JPotter says:
    October 21, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Education about the Electoral College

    Fun cutesy piece by Mo Rocca about the Electoral Collage ran this morning on CBS Sunday Morning. Rigorous and academic, no, but fun … and raising the specter of doing away with the electoral college. I have mixed feelings about that. The EC is one of the most little ‘r’ republican things about our Republic.

    It also suggests the possibility that Obama could lose popularly but win electorally—making this in yet one more way an echo of 2004—and suggests such an occurrence would be the death the EC. That’s mere hyperbole …. but imagine the renewed howlings from the ODS afflicted.

    It does also update on the National Popular Vote Movement, an attempt to circumvent the amendment process by gathering state commitments to dedicate electors to the popular vote winner. Perfectly constitutional, but seems a bit weaselly.

    I wonder how the national parties and community of election operatives feels about it? It seems to me the EC makes their job simpler in Presidential elections. I’d like to know my vote was more effectual. Imagine a wide open race. It could take a few cycles to adjust to a new paradigm. Until then, campaigns could be scattershot and a little schizo. Eventually, state-based efforts and tracking would shift over to focus on population centers and regions.

    Definitely a more little ‘d’ democratic vision.

    OK, it’s big ‘D’ Democratic as well. Here’s the Republican Party position, taken from their 2012 platform:

    The Continuing Importance of Protecting the Electoral College
    We oppose the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact or any other scheme to abolish or distort the procedures of the Electoral College. We recognize that an unconstitutional effort to impose “national popular vote” would be a mortal threat to our federal system and a guarantee of corruption as every ballot box in every state would become a chance to steal the presidency.

  32. JPotter says:
    October 21, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    JPotter: impose “national popular vote” would be a mortal threat to our federal system and a guarantee of corruption as every ballot box in every state would become a chance to steal the presidency.

    Taste the paranoia!

    Impose popular vote … it’s mob rule, people! The unwashed masses can’t be trusted to know what’s good for them!

    In the Founder’s day, conservatives favored property over people. At least they’re consistent.

  33. JPotter says:
    October 21, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    A certain mug is on sale …..

    One of the penultimate pieces of anti-birfer swag can be had at a steep discount and ships free. End of campaign sale.

    Finally ordered one. It will look great sitting on my copy of WTBC?

    It’s an often imitated and parodied item on Cafe Press … I had no idea people got so nasty over there … sigh.

  34. US Citizen says:
    October 21, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Where do you find notices of anti-birther deaths?

    In the Obotuaries.

    😉

  35. Majority Will says:
    October 21, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    Romney Family Investment Ties To Voting Machine Company That Could Decide The Election Causing Concern

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/10/20/romney-family-investment-ties-to-voting-machine-company-that-could-decide-the-election-causes-concern/

    JPotter: Taste the paranoia!

    Impose popular vote … it’s mob rule, people! The unwashed masses can’t be trusted to know what’s good for them!

    In the Founder’s day, conservatives favored property over people. At least they’re consistent.

  36. richCares says:
    October 21, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    last night I woke up screaming and in a cold sweat, it was scarry. I dreamt I voted for Romney, what a nightmare!

  37. Kupuna says:
    October 21, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    I worry that Rmoney will win. Mostly because his failed-Reagan-era theories won’t help the majority of us in our country prosper. I am also ashamed to admit that I’ve gotten so many great laughs reading about Birthers these past years. One of the reasons I hope for an Obama win is because I hope I’ll get 4 more years of laughs from Birrters.

  38. Keith says:
    October 21, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    RIP George.

    Your quite wisdom is missed.

    So it goes.

  39. ZixiOfIx says:
    October 22, 2012 at 1:28 am

    Kupuna:
    I worry that Rmoney will win. Mostly because his failed-Reagan-era theories won’t help the majority of us in our country prosper. I am also ashamed to admit that I’ve gotten so many great laughs reading about Birthers these past years. One of the reasons I hope for an Obama win is because I hope I’ll get 4 more years of laughs from Birrters.

    I worry for a number of reasons. I worry for the economy. I don’t think that Obama has all the answers, or even most of them, but I think that anyone who can steer a steady course is capable of helping the economy a great deal. The economy is starting to recover; if Romney is elected, I fear that we’ll be plunged deeper into recession or worse.

    Also, if Romney wins, I think that it will seal the fate of the Republican Party – it’ll be the end.

    I say that for a couple of reasons. Primarily economic (see above), but also because the birthers and other kooks will feel that they’ve “won” and will energetically take over what’s left of the sane wing of the party.

    At this point, I think that Romney has a better-than-expected chance of winning. I live in a swing state (Colorado), which Obama needs to win. Romney, Ryan, and their stand-ins are here every day doing speeches, making appearances, and holding rallies. Obama and Biden have been here, certainly, but not as often, and you don’t see many of their stand-ins. I count campaign signs every day. Some days, I don’t see a single Obama sign at all.

    I’m conservative, not a Democrat, and at this point, I’m sort of pulling for Obama because of what I think a Romney win will do to the GOP; also because Romney’s embrace of birthers and birtherism. It rubs me the wrong way in more ways than I can count. Ugh.

  40. The Magic M says:
    October 22, 2012 at 7:20 am

    ZixiOfIx: but also because the birthers and other kooks will feel that they’ve “won” and will energetically take over what’s left of the sane wing of the party.

    Birthers predicted that would happen after the 2010 Senate elections. It didn’t. I somehow doubt a Romney win would be any different.
    On the contrary, a successful GOP might have no problems fending off the wingnuts, whereas an Obama win might empower the loons (as in “you sane people had your chance and you blew it”).

  41. The Magic M says:
    October 22, 2012 at 7:23 am

    JPotter: It also suggests the possibility that Obama could lose popularly but win electorally

    If that happens, my money is on “birthers will dig up some ‘authoritative’ source from 1780 that this was never the Founders’ intention and therefore Obama is not simply ineligible but doubly so”.

  42. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 22, 2012 at 10:24 am

    The site’s menus have been redesigned to accommodate tablet devices. Now, when you tap on any of the menu higher-level categories, the drop-down list will stay visible for you to make a choice.

  43. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 22, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Not to be partisan here, but I don’t know what a Romney presidency would be like. There are just too many contradicting positions to get a clear picture.

    First, this myth of bi-partisan Romney working with Democrats in Massachusetts should be discarded. He vetoed over 800 bills in Massachusetts, and the overwhelmingly Democratic legislature overturned most of them. The only bi-partisan thing he did was Obamacare RomneyCare. With RomneyCare, they brought in the best experts in the field and arrived at a pragmatic solution. When Obama tacked the issue, he brought in the best experts in the field (including some of the same ones Romney used), looked for best practices (and found RomneyCare) and adopted that.

    My point here is that Obama and Romney worked the same way. The difference was that Democrats in Massachusetts where more cooperative than Republicans in Washington, and this is where I give Obama the edge. Obama has had 4 years to figure out how Washington works and to get over the illusion of bipartisanship. He’s now able to move forward in a pragmatic way to get the best deals he can. Romney starts with a vision of Massachusetts and will have to unlearn all of that.

    ZixiOfIx: I’m conservative, not a Democrat, and at this point, I’m sort of pulling for Obama because of what I think a Romney win will do to the GOP; also because Romney’s embrace of birthers and birtherism. It rubs me the wrong way in more ways than I can count. Ugh.

  44. donna says:
    October 22, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Donald Trump claims Barack Obama bombshell

    Donald Trump said Monday that he will reveal “very big” news about President Barack Obama by Wednesday but declined to give any hints about his plan, he said on “Fox & Friends.”

    “Something very, very big concerning the president of the United States,” he said. “It’s going to be very big. I know one thing — you will cover it in a very big fashion.”

    Trump, who said he will announce the news on Twitter “sometime probably Wednesday,” suggested it could “possibly” impact the election. The businessman, who considered a run for the White House but endorsed former Gov. Mitt Romney, has long been a high-profile Obama birther conspiracy theorist.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82701.html#ixzz2A2Ylp6cC

  45. El Diablo Negro says:
    October 22, 2012 at 11:20 am

    An October Surprise That Will Change the 2012 Election?????

    http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/

    Don’t hold your breath, you might turn blue or pass out.

    5:30 will come but I will have more important matters to attend to, like killing orcs, goblins, and trolls in Lord of The Rings Online.

    any day now….

  46. JPotter says:
    October 22, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    donna: It’s going to be very big. I know one thing —

    …. I know that sound like Trump’s typically vapid, rambling hyperbole.

    Have I missed whatever it is yet? Monday’s is slightly more than half over, so odds are it should have been announced by now.*

    ______

    * a nod to the ridiculous statistcs, predictions, and handicapping going on around OCT recently!)

  47. Joe Acerbic says:
    October 22, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    donna:
    Donald Trump claims Barack Obama bombshell

    Knowing the Combover Con Man’s track record of amazing discoveries of old, old birfoon droppings, it’ll be the Bomford certificate.

  48. misha marinsky says:
    October 22, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Race has nothing to do with this? From the Washington Post:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/how-the-administration-got-in-trouble-on-libya/2012/10/20/11634974-1a57-11e2-aa6f-3b636fecb829_blog.html

    “I pray that the Affirmative Action President won’t do too much more damage before he is retired on January 20th.”

  49. misha marinsky says:
    October 22, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    ZixiOfIx: I’m conservative, not a Democrat

    – Why do you agree reproductive freedom should be criminalized?
    – Why are you opposed to equal pay for equal work?
    – Why do believe science and evolution is a lie?
    – Why do you support affirmative action for the wealthy, but not for the ordinary?
    – Why do you believe the less fortunate should fend for themselves, or just live in abject poverty and hunger?
    – Why do you believe health care is only for those who can earn it? “Non-productive” people should just be tossed aside, right?
    – Why are you opposed to a wall between church and state?
    – Why do you believe the marketplace will create clean air and water?
    – Why do you believe non-Christians should have their civil rights taken away?

  50. misha marinsky says:
    October 22, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    ZixiOfIx: I’m conservative, not a Democrat

    Google “McCain Palin clinic violence.”

    They tolerate clinic violence, and have voted showing sympathy to clinic violence.

  51. LW says:
    October 22, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    JPotter: Have I missed whatever it is yet?

    Trump says he’s going to lay it on us via “the Twitter” (yes, that’s what he said) on Wednesday.

    I’m sure it will be Huge!

  52. Northland10 says:
    October 22, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    Works well on an Android using the standard browser and Chrome. Thanks Doc.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The site’s menus have been redesigned to accommodate tablet devices. Now, when you tap on any of the menu higher-level categories, the drop-down list will stay visible for you to make a choice.

  53. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 22, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    More like 140 characters.

    LW: I’m sure it will be Huge!

  54. JPotter says:
    October 22, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    Dr. Conspiracy: More like 140 characters.

    Said huge-ness will be device, and user-setting, dependent.

    On my flat screen and with browser magnification cranked, every post here is EPIC. 😉

  55. Wile says:
    October 22, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    The Onion tweets…

    “Obama seems suspiciously knowledgeable about foreign affairs for someone born here.”

  56. misha marinsky says:
    October 22, 2012 at 11:13 pm

    LW: Trump says he’s going to lay it on us via “the Twitter”…on Wednesday. I’m sure it will be Huge!

    I know already: “Badger on head had litter”

  58. The Magic M says:
    October 23, 2012 at 6:51 am

    LW: I’m sure it will be Huge!

    Trump is the personified rick-roll. Just not as funny.

  59. donna says:
    October 23, 2012 at 9:56 am

    the trumpster was on cnbc this am and again spoke about the “huge” news tomorrow about obama

    he was asked could it change the election? possibly

    he will release the “news” around noon

  60. The Magic M says:
    October 23, 2012 at 11:06 am

    After I stayed up until 0:30 a.m. local time to see what octsurprise.com was all about, I’m not holding my breath for this one.

    My money is on “another ‘you’re fired’ video”. I don’t think the Donald will have anything substantial (as in “OMG this is it, birthers will finally win”) to release, or he would’ve provided that to the Romney campaign already.

    I’ll rather take the time to watch the third debate (which I had to miss since it started after 2:00 a.m. local time).

  61. Xyxox says:
    October 23, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Trump’s super secret revelation coming on Wednesday, looks like he’s got another Larry Sinclair type who is going to claim Obama sold cocaine in college:

    http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/10/president-obama-sold-cocaine-college-trump-charges-republicans-reject

  62. RuhRoh says:
    October 23, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Xyxox:
    Trump’s super secret revelation coming on Wednesday, looks like he’s got another Larry Sinclair type who is going to claim Obama sold cocaine in college:

    Trump’s camp is denying that it has anything to do with collegiate misadventures in recreational drugs. http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/23/trump-adviser-knocks-down-speculation-that-obama-revelation-is-about-cocaine/

  63. RuhRoh says:
    October 23, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Recall Orly’s bar complaint against Scott Tepper? The MS Bar dismissed it. http://www.scribd.com/doc/110906948/MS-Bar-Letter-Dismissing-Taitz-Complaint-2012-10-18

  64. misha marinsky says:
    October 23, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    ZixiOfIx: I’m conservative, not a Democrat

    Google “pharmacist refuse to fill prescription.” Conservatives fully support refusal.

    Note: When I worked as a licensed optician, I could not refuse to wait on anyone. Prisoners were brought in with leg irons and handcuffs, and I had to fit them with eyeglasses. Aids patients came in with vouchers from the Whitman-Walker Clinic, and I could not refuse to fit them.

    Of course, I’m just some bleeding heart liberal.

  65. misha marinsky says:
    October 23, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    ZixiOfIx: I’m conservative, not a Democrat

    In Anchorage, a minister and a parishioner from the Anchorage AoG (Palin belongs to the Wasilla AoG), told me “Jewish people deserve to suffer.”

    I will remember that every time I go into the voting booth. Romney’s magic underpants will not help him win. He can go back to baptizing us after we die.

    When I was in the hospital in a coma from the aneursym, I heard a missionary say to my wife he wanted to baptize me in case I did not wake up. She asked him to leave.

  66. Scientist says:
    October 23, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    RuhRoh: Trump’s camp is denying that it has anything to do with collegiate misadventures in recreational drugs. http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/23/trump-adviser-knocks-down-speculation-that-obama-revelation-is-about-cocaine/

    It may have to do with rumors that Michelle was so mad at Barack over his losing run for Congress in 2000, which she had not wanted him to do, that she prepared divorce papers. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2222070/Donald-Trump-reveal-divorce-papers-Michelle-Barack-Obama–claims-respected-financial-pundit.html

    I give this some credibility, because, while Trump is a moron, the source of this, Doug Kass is actually one of the very few market gurus that is worth paying attention to. He is not a birther, nor an Obama hater.

    As for its effect on the election, my guess is zero. Even if it were true, what difference would it make? Many (perhaps most marriages) go through rough patches here and there. It doesn’t even involve infidelity, just Michelle’s doubts over whether she wanted to be a political wife. Anyway, if true, it seems she forgave him. I could see it making a kind of heart-warming story and working to the President’s benefit.

  67. misha marinsky says:
    October 23, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    Scientist: It may have to do with rumors that Michelle was so mad at Barack over his losing run for Congress in 2000, which she had not wanted him to do, that she prepared divorce papers.

    From the mouth of a man who divorced twice, and married three times. Gingrich too, plus adultery twice. Bob “Family Values” Livingston, had a affair with an underage page. Henry “No Abortion Ever” Hyde had an affair with a married woman. BFD

    Mittens won’t go through a divorce, because he has sister wives, and it would be too complicated.

  68. donna says:
    October 23, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    tweet of the day:

    What difference does it make who won debate? Donald Trump is going to decide the election in 2 days…

    — @JosephFarah via web

  70. gorefan says:
    October 23, 2012 at 6:04 pm

    Scientist: It may have to do with rumors that Michelle was so mad at Barack over his losing run for Congress in 2000, which she had not wanted him to do, that she prepared divorce papers.

    Trumps spokesman denied that it involved cocaine dealing and use. He said that what Trump has is important to Americans.

    “Mr. Trump’s announcement is substantially more important to the American people than these allegations made against the president,”

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/23/trump-adviser-knocks-down-speculation-that-obama-revelation-is-about-cocaine/#ixzz2AA4NxIVO

    It makes me think it is not the divorce thing, how substantially important is that to Americans? I vote for the Marxist stuff. That’s seems to be the big thing Breitbart and other conservative sites have been pushing. So that’s my 2 cents.

  71. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 23, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    The only thing I have to say about Donald Trump’s “October Surprise” is that I have nothing to say about Donald Trump’s “October Surprise.”

  72. donna says:
    October 23, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    awwww doc

    i purchased extra caramel corn for tomorrow at noon

    i might wear a gown

  73. donna says:
    October 23, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    Trump Promises ‘Very Big’ Political Bombshell Wednesday

    VIDEO

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49515813

  74. JPotter says:
    October 23, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    All stuff and nonsense … overpromise and underdeliver. Sell, Trump, sell! Shuck that jive!

    The Marxist stuff? Stale, generic, w/o substance, and desperate.

    If they really want to avoid taking their chances on the ballot box, if they really want to derail Obama at this late stage, they need something detailed and specifc that involves a betrayal of the people’s trust.

    Not anything too sensational … if it’s ridiculously unbelievable (like most OCT’s!) or completely insubstantial (like tossing worn-out labels such as ‘Marxist’), it will have no impact, could even backfire.

    No, they need a subtle, insidious whopper. A nice bitter poison in the pool of public conscious, something that will be filtered out eventually, but not in a mere two weeks. Something to make the ill-informed decided they can’t chance voting for a guy who might have _________ed the ____________.

    Whatever that might be. I’ll make no suggestions. 😉

    These knuckleheads have been trying for nearly 5 years and haven’t managed it yet ….!

  75. JPotter says:
    October 23, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    donna: Trump Promises ‘Very Big’ Political Bombshell Wednesday

    Thanks for that, what a crackup LOL

    Trump insists Romney “wants him” and that he’ll be campaigning in “about a week” LOL … Let’s pitch in and send him a calendar.

    He got so defensive re: his birferism. Whatever it is, if it’s anything, it’s going to be birfer-related. Maybe those invisible “investigators” finally made it back to the mainland. Perhaps it took them a year to start believing what they were seeing.

  76. LW says:
    October 23, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    “Will it make any more sense than birtherism?” Shrum asked about tomorrow’s announcement.

    “I think it’s going to make a lot of sense. I think birtherism makes a lot of sense to a lot of people to be honest with you,” Trump replied. “A lot of people agree with it and a lot of people like me very much because of that. All we want is the truth, Bob.”

    Hully cats, did someone take his sled away when he was a kid? “A lot of people like me very much.”

  77. aarrgghh says:
    October 23, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    the god of mischief has but one question for birfers everywhere …

  78. misha marinsky says:
    October 24, 2012 at 1:30 am

    Scientist: It may have to do with rumors that Michelle was so mad at Barack over his losing run for Congress in 2000, which she had not wanted him to do, that she prepared divorce papers.

    Has anyone seen this?

    Mitt Romney was heavily involved in the extremely messy divorce of one of his key supporters…and the Boston Globe is going to court first thing Wednesday morning in an attempt to unseal the court file as well as lift a gag order.

    The divorce was between Staples co-founder Tom Stemberg and his first wife Maureen. We’re told the divorce battle lasted for years and was extremely ugly.

    Sources tell us Romney gave both a deposition in the divorce and testified in the trial. According to our sources, the Boston Globe got a tip that there was “juicy information about Romney” in the sealed documents.

    Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2012/10/23/mitt-romney-divorce-thomas-stemberg-maureen-staples-gloria-allred-boston-globe/#ixzz2ABviJog9

  79. Keith says:
    October 24, 2012 at 1:51 am

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The only thing I have to say about Donald Trump’s “October Surprise” is that I have nothing to say aboutDonald Trump’s “October Surprise.”

    I’ll halve that.

  80. The Magic M says:
    October 24, 2012 at 4:29 am

    gorefan: I vote for the Marxist stuff.

    Possible given Trump’s idiocy, but how is that going to be a game changer for the elections? 99% of sane people know that what Obama does is as far away from Marxism as Havana is from winning the World Series.

    Maybe it’s something much less sinister, like “a list of all his broken promises” or “a list of all his failures” etc.

  81. The Magic M says:
    October 24, 2012 at 7:34 am

    I had to share this, my favourite dumbest conspiracy claim ever, just found it:

    “ALUMINON OXIDE SPRAYING IS TO STOP PRAYERS GETTING TO GOD”

    Reminds me of a real-life West German tabloid headline from the 1950’s that said “Ostzonen-Suppenwürfel bringen Krebs!” (“Instant soup from Eastern Germany gives you cancer!”).

    And this person’s god must be so weak that some chemical can block his senses…

  82. JPotter says:
    October 24, 2012 at 9:15 am

    The Magic M: And this person’s god must be so weak that some chemical can block his senses…

    Hey, M man, even god aliens have their weaknesses. They couldn’t (wouldn’t?) speak to the Levites in stereo on anything less than a pair of gold-plated cherubim. After all, they’re only human. Just ask the History channel.

    That said, that is a pretty awesome parallel to the wearing of tinfoil to block out gov’t mind-control beams. How do nuts filter between telepathic communiqués from god and those from the gov’t? 😉

  83. Majority Will says:
    October 24, 2012 at 9:25 am

    JPotter: Hey, M man, even god aliens have their weaknesses. They couldn’t (wouldn’t?) speak to the Levites in stereo on anything less than a pair of gold-plated cherubim. After all, they’re only human. Just ask the History channel.

    That said, that is a pretty awesome parallel to the wearing of tinfoil to block out gov’t mind-control beams. How do nuts filter between telepathic communiqués from god and those from the gov’t?

    Coffee filters for some. Tea bags for others.

  84. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 24, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    New item, Site Statistics, added under the Visitor Guide menu

  85. donna says:
    October 24, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    birthers eat roadkill

    to them, a pile of merde tastes like chicken

    when will trump campaign for mitt?

    any day now

    “They actually want me to very badly, and I will be doing that starting probably in about a week,” Trump said.

  86. JPotter says:
    October 24, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Now this would have been more creative….

    Obama Divorce Papers Could Be Donald Trump’s Announcement For Wednesday

    http://www.ibtimes.com/obama-divorce-papers-could-be-donald-trumps-announcement-wednesday-852964

    Oh, what might have been. Some cleverly forgeries could have gone a long way 😉

  87. donna says:
    October 24, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    Stay classy, Frank Luntz

    The spinmeister got paid by conservatives to test an anti-Obama film that features lurid stories about his mother

    The official pollster of Fox News, Frank Luntz, is the man who renamed the estate tax the “death tax” and told Republicans to lie and call healthcare reform a “government takeover” of the medical system. It turns out he’s also the guy who tested anti-Obama films, including one that features nude photos of President Obama’s mother and depicts her as a prostitute, for a shadowy GOP donor. Now DVDs of the scurrilous film, “Dreams from My Real Father,” are finding their way into mailboxes in swing states.

    Luntz won’t say who commissioned his anti-Obama focus group, and he reportedly counseled his client to go with a milder anti-Obama film by conservative Stephen K. Bannon. That’s showing up on cable television stations in swing states soon. Another film screened was Dinesh D’Souza’s fantasy “Obama: 2016,” which Luntz said didn’t test well with voters.

    That Luntz would take money to test such garbage shows the depths to which mainstream Republicans are going in their effort to defeat Obama.

    more

    http://www.salon.com/2012/10/24/stay_classy_frank_luntz/

  88. RuhRoh says:
    October 24, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Someone ought to tell that Salon author that there are not actually any nude photos of Obama’s mother in the film. There are thoroughly debunked CLAIMS that the nude photos are of Obama’s mother, but not actually any nude photos of her. Repeating the lies of the RWNJs isn’t exactly helping.

  89. US Citizen says:
    October 24, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    Is there a spreadsheet or other column oriented compilation of the prominent birthers and their beliefs, exploits, etc?
    It would be good to see something that showed what beliefs they share or espouse.
    Check boxes for DeVattelist? Two parent theory? FMD son? Born in Kenya?
    Also what cases they’ve brought or testified in, other conspiracy theories they believe in (chemtrails, et al), exhibited racist statements or actions, etc.
    I’d really love to see something like this. Does it exist?
    At Fogbow perhaps?

  90. JPotter says:
    October 25, 2012 at 12:06 am

    US Citizen: Does it exist?

    As wonderful as such ‘dossiers’ would be, it would be quite an effort. You couldn’t simply ask the nutters to deny or affirm (cue The Godfather, “Michael Corleone, do you renounce the works of Satan?”) …. you would have to dredge up cited quotes from each nut on each topic. Could take awhile.

    Some nuts are in for a penny, in for a pound, swallowing any insanity in sight. So mundane. The true gems are the nuts who will hold forth on some spectacular stupidity (say, Moon Nazis), and then, in the same breath, decry some other, equally stupid nuttery as “ridiculous”, “ludicrous”, or “just plain silly”. So tasty!

  91. Andrew Vrba, PmG says:
    October 25, 2012 at 1:49 am

    Had a hilarious run in with a birther online.
    So he tells me to get out of HIS country, and go to Cuba, where I would be with my own kind.
    Now, call me crazy, but I’m not so sure that there are very many, if any, hillbillies of Czech-Irish decent in Cuba.

  92. bovril says:
    October 25, 2012 at 3:58 am

    USC,

    Once upon a time i thought of trying this and gave up when i started to attempt to apply a taxonomy of birthers on the muppets over at Dr K(H)ates.

    If you want a consolidated melange of insanity there’s the place to go… 😎

  93. RuhRoh says:
    October 25, 2012 at 6:20 am

    Corsi now claims that Obama had a nose job. His source? Joel Gilbert.

    What’s next? Lifts in his shoes?

  94. The Magic M says:
    October 25, 2012 at 6:52 am

    RuhRoh: Corsi now claims that Obama had a nose job.

    Of course. First it was “he looks just like FMD, therefore FMD is his daddy”. Now it’s “he doesn’t look like FMD because he had a nose job to hide he looked like FMD, therefore FMD is his daddy”.

    Next up: “Obama had sex change to cover up FMD was really his mother” – or something.

  95. RuhRoh says:
    October 25, 2012 at 6:58 am

    @Magic M: in the comments over at WND, there are posters saying that the nose job was a mistake because now you can more clearly see the resemblance between Obama and FMD, cementing that FMD is his father.

    The mind, it boggles.

  96. The Magic M says:
    October 25, 2012 at 8:15 am

    RuhRoh: saying that the nose job was a mistake because now you can more clearly see the resemblance between Obama and FMD, cementing that FMD is his father

    No, obviously the nose job was done on purpose to claim any similarity between him and FMD was due to the surgeon’s incompetence. 😉

    Next up: “Michael Jackson doc helped Obama look ‘whiter'”

    And while Trump’s follies remind me of Austin Powers (“I’ll offer him $5 trillion – no, wait, $5 MILLION DOLLARS”), Corsi is obviously going the “Face/Off” route.
    Next he’ll claim Bin Laden surgically swapped his face with Obama’s while Obama did the opposite – so now the President is dead and the al-Quaeda leader is sitting in the WH.

    Hey, I don’t think anything can surprise me after this year…

  97. JPotter says:
    October 25, 2012 at 8:37 am

    The Magic M: now the President is dead and the al-Quaeda leader is sitting in the WH.

    Hey, that’s a good one! How can we get the nuts to adopt it? I wish Trump had gone with your suggestion … “Are you gonna take a chance on voting Al Qaeda? Well, are ya?!?”

    _________

    At least Romney hasn’t started styling himself “W. M. Romney, American” …. or whippped out a slogan like “Vote American. Vote Romney” or “Romney and Ryan. American candidates for the American Presidency”.

    C’mon, guys, it isn’t too late for some last-second, flag-draped birtherism!

  98. The Magic M says:
    October 25, 2012 at 11:17 am

    JPotter: How can we get the nuts to adopt it?

    Actually, on WND you will find at least a dozen birthers who believe they are one and the same person.

  99. pcbbeachgirl52 says:
    October 25, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    So, tell me…what was Trumps annoucement…that he was going to give 5 mil to the first person who came up with college transcripts? People BELIEVE this stuff…I need facts to combat them!

  100. Zixi of Ix says:
    October 25, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    misha marinsky: – Why do you agree reproductive freedom should be criminalized?

    I don’t. I should have more correctly said that I am a fiscal conservative and social libertarian. Above all, I am a realist. I live in this world, and don’t want to see anyone suffer or starve. But I am deeply bothered by the fact that Democrats are all about what the government can do for us collectively, but never want to talk about the individual or societal costs of these services. The power to give you everything is the power to take everything away.

    As for abortion: I would not personally have an abortion, and don’t think it is the place of government to pay for them in most cases, but would never stop any other woman from exercising complete control over her body. Period. There is nothing to add.

    – Why are you opposed to equal pay for equal work?

    I am not opposed to equal pay for equal work, but am not in favor of the government deciding what “equal” is.

    – Why do believe science and evolution is a lie?

    I teach science to kids, and Charles Darwin is much admired in my professional and personal life. There is nothing in my faith which disagrees with evolution. Evolution explains the ‘how”, not the “why”. The earth is billions of years old. Dinosaurs once walked the earth. My favorite Mesozoic critter is Sauropterygia.

    – Why do you support affirmative action for the wealthy, but not for the ordinary?

    I don’t think I fully understand the question, but I don’t support affirmative action for anyone. It is not the government’s job to pick favorites.

    – Why do you believe the less fortunate should fend for themselves, or just live in abject poverty and hunger?

    I believe that people should take personal responsibility as much as possible, and that welfare programs can be crippling to the individual. I accept the need for a social safety net. No one should be hungry or sick if there is food or treatment, but I wish that the conversation about assistance included more discussion about how to make better choices in the future.

    – Why do you believe health care is only for those who can earn it?

    I believe that we (collectively) will give up certain freedoms to have socialized medicine, and I believe that the Democrats have glossed over this. If the government can “give” you health care, they can take it away. This is a conversation which we, collectively, have not had. In the UK, for example, there are certain expensive (but effective) breast cancer treatments which are not available. Waits for treatments are longer. I’m deeply concerned and disappointed that this is not part of the conversation.
    So, I don’t think that health care is only for those who can earn it, but I also do not believe that everyone will get everything at no cost; or that anyone will get even the basics with no costs. Universal health care means government control. Perhaps this is something society wants. If it is, I would accept it. But to never have the conversation, or to say it’s not a conversation that will be needed is deeply dishonest.

    “Non-productive” people should just be tossed aside, right?

    I don’t understand the question, exactly, but I don’t think anyone should be thrown away. I also don’t agree that it is the place of the government to decide value, worth, or preference.

    – Why are you opposed to a wall between church and state?

    I am not opposed to a wall between church and state. I don’t want to see churches get special privileges any more than I wish to see any group get special privileges. Part of giving the government so much power (see above re: health care), is allowing the government to decide that some institutions can flourish while others won’t be allowed to survive at all. The government should never be allowed to be so big or so powerful that this is a concern.

    – Why do you believe the marketplace will create clean air and water?

    In places where the government has had total control (China, the USSR before it dissolved), the outcome was much worse than what the marketplace has wrought. I don’t know the answer, but know that it isn’t simply government control.

    – Why do you believe non-Christians should have their civil rights taken away?

    Which civil rights are those? Marriage? Voting? The right to association? I’m in favor of gay marriage and have no problem with anything that anyone wants to do as long as they are adults exercising their free will.

    I don’t think you will find me ever criticizing anyone for their positive stance on gay marriage, any other sort of adult marriage, voting rights. I simply do not care what other adults do with their time, in their bedrooms, or in their relationships. I’m fine with adults ordering their lives in ways that make them happy.

    If, by “civil rights”, you mean “voting rights”, I would answer that everyone has the right to vote, and everyone should be able to exercise that right, and that one of the legitimate actions of government is to protect and equally enforce voting rights.

  101. Zixi of Ix says:
    October 25, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    Now, Misha, I have a few questions for you, since I answered all of yours as completely and honestly as possible.

    1. Why do you seek to paint me as anti-science or anti-evolution? Just a week or so ago, I criticized a birther on this site, saying that he or she was like a creationist, always asking for more evidence, never accepting any evidence.

    I clearly and succinctly made the argument that followed the scientific path, not the path denying science. Why did you ignore what I wrote in favor of what you would like to think conservatives think?

    Further, I believe that I have commented in favor of gay marriage and other civil right issues here, and have said that one of the problems I have with the GOP is their ignorant world view.

    I would like to suggest that you pull your head out of the sand that realize that not all conservatives are nuts, any more than all liberals are bastions of logic and reason.

    2. Why do you seek to belittle with questions like “Why do you believe non-Christians should have their civil rights taken away”? Is the word “conservative” so bad that you have to ignore what I’ve written in favor of your fantasies?

    I defy you to find anything I have written here that implies or states in any way, shape, or form that anyone should have their civil rights taken away.

    I strive to live a logical, reasonable life. I do not make wild accusations of the type you have made against me. Your flailing is sort of pitiful, but is illustrative when anyone asks why I don’t want a bigger government. Look at the type of people who do. If you can’t be honest here, how could the product of your political aspirations be any better than what you have managed so far?

    3. What makes you think that you or your beliefs will prevail when you have proven that you are willing to take limited information (I called myself conservative), reject all evidence (what I have written here previously) that doesn’t fit your narrow view? Preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience are prejudices, and your comment was full of them. They don’t look any better on a liberal than they do on a conservative.

    If you have any hope of your world view prevailing, do yourself a true favor and pay attention to what people say instead of what you think they might say, or what they call themselves. There is a word for people who prejudge. It’s not a very nice word at all.

    You owe me an unqualified apology, but I seriously doubt you will offer one. I have done absolutely not one single thing to be attacked with such sleazy questions.

    misha marinsky: – Why do you agree reproductive freedom should be criminalized?
    – Why are you opposed to equal pay for equal work?
    – Why do believe science and evolution is a lie?
    – Why do you support affirmative action for the wealthy, but not for the ordinary?
    – Why do you believe the less fortunate should fend for themselves, or just live in abject poverty and hunger?
    – Why do you believe health care is only for those who can earn it? “Non-productive” people should just be tossed aside, right?
    – Why are you opposed to a wall between church and state?
    – Why do you believe the marketplace will create clean air and water?
    – Why do you believe non-Christians should have their civil rights taken away?

  102. Scientist says:
    October 25, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Zixi of Ix: I believe that we (collectively) will give up certain freedoms to have socialized medicine, and I believe that the Democrats have glossed over this. If the government can “give” you health care, they can take it away. This is a conversation which we, collectively, have not had. In the UK, for example, there are certain expensive (but effective) breast cancer treatments which are not available. Waits for treatments are longer. I’m deeply concerned and disappointed that this is not part of the conversation.

    Of course it’s part of the conversation. Look, the efficacy of those breast cancer treatments is questionable. The clinical studies show the average treated patient lives 15 months vs 12 for untreated. At some point, it is reasonable to say, if we could vaccinate 1,000 kids for the cost of extending one person’s life for a few months (often with a low QOL) is that worth it? Besides, an individual could always go outside the national system and pay for that treatment themselves or buy supplemental insurance to cover it. But let’s make sure everyone has basic health care. And every other country spends 50% less and lives longer. The US system is filled with waste, from all the hands in the till.

    As for waits, my wife has to wait until January for a procedure that her doctor recommended in August. There is a very small, but non-zero chance that the wait could be fatal. But, we have to realize that a doctor can do only so many procedures in a day, under any system. By the way, when we lived in France, we could call in the AM and see the doctor in the PM. And not for an emergency, but a kid’s sore throat or minor stuff like that. Just try that here.

  103. donna says:
    October 25, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    speaking about “waiting for the other shoe to drop”, let’s look at ohio

    over 800,000 absentee ballots have not been returned yet – if they aren’t returned and the voters instead turn up on election day to vote, they will be given a provisional ballot

    (and voters can request absentee ballots until nov 3rd)

    by law, provisional and absentee ballots won’t begin to be counted until at least nov 17th

    if ohio is close and the deciding number of electoral votes, expect a nightmare

    http://www.thenews-messenger.com/article/20121025/NEWS01/121025001/Absentee-ballots-could-hang-up-Ohio-s-results

  104. Zixi of Ix says:
    October 25, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    Scientist: Of course it’s part of the conversation. Look, the efficacy of those breast cancer treatments is questionable.The clinical studies show the average treated patient lives 15 months vs 12 for untreated.At some point, it is reasonable to say, if we could vaccinate 1,000 kids for the cost of extending one person’s life for a few months (often with a low QOL) is that worth it?

    It depends. I can’t answer for anyone other than myself, but in the US, at the moment, I have the choice. In the UK, there is no choice under the government program. Some drugs are simply out of the question due to cost.

    You have recognized that we may need to ask, “Couldn’t we vaccinate 1,000 children?” for this money, and in my opinion, this is a debate we should have. But that isn’t the type of question we have ever asked before. Currently, the questions in the United States are about the individual. His treatment. Her care plan. His drug therapy. Her surgery. Not the group – the individual.

    Your question requires a huge change. When I lost my mother last year, the focus of everyone – the doctors, nurses, therapists; and the focus of the organizations – hospital and hospice – was all about the individual. It was not geared toward cost savings. It has never been geared toward cost savings. Some of it (treatment for someone who had a 0% chance of getting at all better) was ludicrous to the point of being painful to watch. But it was standard treatment. My mother was terminally ill and entirely non-responsive, with a clear directive, and I had to fight to stop active treatment. It was like a bad nightmare – I really cannot describe it in any other terms.

    So, I disagree that it is part of the conversation here in the United States. At no point have I seen anyone anywhere say, “Look, we’re going to have to limit drugs and treatment”.

    Besides, an individual could always go outside the national system and pay for that treatment themselves or buy supplemental insurance to cover it.But let’s make sure everyone has basic health care. And every other country spends 50% less and lives longer.The US system is filled with waste, from all the hands in the till.

    That leaves two standards of care again. People who can afford lifesaving drugs or better treatment times outside the system, and those who cannot.

    As for waits, my wife has to wait until January for a procedure that her doctor recommended in August.There is a very small, but non-zero chance that the wait could be fatal.But, we have to realize that a doctor can do only so many procedures in a day, under any system.

    I sincerely hope that your wife gets a clean bill of health when her procedure is done.

    My closest friend has been fighting breast cancer for about seven years. She would not have been seen in a few days in the UK, even though she needed to be. It would have been a few months, and those months would have ended her life. As it is, with immediate care, she barely made it.

    She was (optimistically) diagnosed with aggressive stage 3C when her cancer was found, and it would have almost certainly progressed beyond the point of being saved if she had lived elsewhere. She was young, she had no family history, she had no prior cancer. She was healthy and active. All she had was a slightly uncomfortable feeling in her arm. Her doctor thought it may have been a pulled muscle. Nothing that would have triggered a race to the imaging center. It was only because she’s a such a worrier that the doctor agreed to do the diagnostic test. Probably because he didn’t want to be sued, just in case. That’s part of our system, too. We sue at the drop of a hat in the US for less-than-optimal outcomes.

    Her cancer resulted in the loss of both breasts, and more surgery (a hysterectomy and both ovaries removed). She had no clean nodes (they could not find a lymph node which did not have cancer), and it was elsewhere in her chest. She had the maximum amount of chemotherapy and a couple of types of radiation; Statistically, she was not a good candidate for survival. She will always be on expensive medicine, some of which is not covered in the UK, according to what she has read.

    But she’s here. She’s beat the odds.

    By the way, when we lived in France, we could call in the AM and see the doctor in the PM.And not for an emergency, but a kid’s sore throat or minor stuff like that. Just try that here.

    In spite of vastly different types of medical systems France, the US, and Japan lead the world in cancer survival rates. The concern is that, as seriously messed up as our system is, the government will make it worse.
    http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20080716/cancer-survival-rates-vary-by-country

    I live in the US and as long as I call my personal physician before say, 10:00 am or so, I will get an appointment that day. Same with our pediatrician and dentist.

    The problem, of course, is that for people without insurance, the story is far different. They may wait in an emergency room for many hours or even a day or more in large cities. This is unacceptable, inhumane, and really expensive.

    When Romney said that no one dies in the US due to lack of insurance, he’s wrong. They do, with grim regularity. And you are right – we pay more for less.

    As I said, I do not know the answer. All I know is that I want my best friend here, and the treatment she’s had in the US saved her life. There is value in that, and before we move away from that system, we need to discuss the alternatives in depth at every level, starting with patients and caregivers.

  105. Scientist says:
    October 25, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    Zixi of Ix: So, I disagree that it is part of the conversation here in the United States. At no point have I seen anyone anywhere say, “Look, we’re going to have to limit drugs and treatment”.

    Well, you must have missed the whole “Death Panel” discussion, which was about that exact thing. Personaly, having gone through a terminal illness with my mother, where her will and ours was respected and antibiotics were not given when she got pneumonia, the old person’s friend, I can say that the terminally ill should be made as comfortable as possible but NOTgiven heroic treatments that at best can extend life hooked to machines for a month or 2. When the time comes for me, please, please give me a Death Panel. And it isn’t “government bureaucrats” who will make the guidelines, but doctors and scientists. Right now, a lot of treatments are done that have little in the way of evidence for efficacy (procedures, unlike drugs and devices are not regulated by FDA). Why should we, whether government or private iinsurance pay for procedures that bring no benefit and sometimes do harm.

    I am sorry about your friend. Treating young people aggressively is not the issue-it’s the cost for the last 2 months of life in elderly patients with multiple systemic illnesses. It’s the unnecessary and duplicative tests. There are always exceptional cases and situations,but I don’t think we should build a health care system around them. We could make every building able to withstand a 9.0 earthquake and an F5 tornado, but then a 2 bedroom house might cost $1 million. So we compromise. And some people die because of that. The same, regretably may be true in health care. Maybe we do have to forgo the heroics now and then to provide basic care to all.

    By the way, very few people have suggesed the UK as the best model for the US to adopt. More like Switzerland, Germany, Holland or some of the Scandinavian countries. Or perhaps Taiwan or Japan, which get good results also.

    I certainly have never gotten a same day appointment with any doctor in the US (I did once or twice with my dentist) and I have gold-plated insurance. So if you do, congratulations.

  106. donna says:
    October 25, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    Scientist: “I certainly have never gotten a same day appointment with any doctor in the US (I did once or twice with my dentist) and I have gold-plated insurance. ”

    i have – about a year ago, i felt a lump in my abdominal area which did not go away – i finally bit the bullet and phoned my medical group – my regular doctor was not in that day but i was immediately given an appointment with an equally qualified physician who followed me through the testing and results over the course of a couple of weeks

  108. Sudoku says:
    October 25, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    Is that real? Please, please, please say it is! I want to see him speed crawfish out that…

    donna:
    tweet of the day:

    What difference does it make who won debate? Donald Trump is going to decide the election in 2 days…

    — @JosephFarah via web

  109. Sudoku says:
    October 25, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    Well said.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The only thing I have to say about Donald Trump’s “October Surprise” is that I have nothing to say aboutDonald Trump’s “October Surprise.”

  110. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 25, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    I contacted the author of the Salon.com article. She apparently thought it was obvious from the context of the article that the pictures weren’t really of Ann Dunham. She based this on an unusual concept of what the word “depict” meant. She said she would update the article to make this clear. It now says:

    It turns out he’s also the guy who tested anti-Obama films, including one that features photoshopped “nude” photos of President Obama’s mother and depicts her as possibly a prostitute,

    Still wrong, but different.

    RuhRoh: Someone ought to tell that Salon author that there are not actually any nude photos of Obama’s mother in the film. There are thoroughly debunked CLAIMS that the nude photos are of Obama’s mother, but not actually any nude photos of her. Repeating the lies of the RWNJs isn’t exactly helping

  111. Wile says:
    October 25, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I contacted the author of the Salon.com article. She apparently thought it was obvious from the context of the article that the pictures weren’t really of Ann Dunham. She based this on an unusual concept of what the word “depict” meant. She said she would update the article to make this clear. It now says:

    Still wrong, but different.

    Well, that’s a mighty weak correction.

    Can it even be called a correction?

  112. donna says:
    October 26, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Sudoku October 25, 2012 at 8:22 pm (Quote) #

    Is that real? Please, please, please say it is! I want to see him speed crawfish out that…

    re: tweet of the day:

    What difference does it make who won debate? Donald Trump is going to decide the election in 2 days…

    — @JosephFarah via web

    here it is

    https://twitter.com/JosephFarah/status/260581417224916992

  114. RuhRoh says:
    October 27, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Doc, thanks for doing your best with salon.com.

  115. LW says:
    October 27, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    QOTD nominee, from the talk page for teh WP article about Dreams From My Real Father:

    WND is, of course, the fleabag hotel where sad-sack wingnut reporting goes to drink itself to death.

  116. misha marinsky says:
    October 27, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    LW: WND is, of course, the fleabag hotel where sad-sack wingnut reporting goes to drink itself to death.

    I opened a roach motel, and got reservations from Farah and Corsi.

  118. bgansel9 says:
    October 27, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    LOL LW, I forgot to h/t her. 😛

  120. misha marinsky says:
    October 27, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Dr. Conspiracy: Birther rent-a-car?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/26/buffalo-thrifty-car-rental-birther_n_2025021.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012

    As I wrote before, both of my degrees are from schools in Buffalo.

    Did anyone read the comments? My favorite: “No biggie. Buffalo died 40 years ago.”

  121. LW says:
    October 27, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Dr. Conspiracy: Birther rent-a-car?

    This particular Thrifty franchise is owned by Carl Paladino. I’ve been wondering if he’s been sending Anne Romney emails on their mutual interest.

  122. donna says:
    October 27, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    paladino? lol he only lost to cuomo by 58 to 37%

    in italian, we have an expression for people like paladino (and christie) “cafone”

  123. Scientist says:
    October 27, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    It appears to me that things are settting up for a scenario in which Obama wins the electoral vote and Romney wins the popular vote. This isn’t set in stone, but may have close to a 50:50 chance of occurring as of today. Let’s pretend that some individual states are close, but none are Florida 2000 and clear winners can be determined in all cases.

    What do people think will happen? Personally, I can envisage several things

    1. The Republicans will not be the good sports that the Dems were in 2000, when they folded up their tents after the Supreme Court ruled and will simply not accept the legitimacy of Obama’s win (all the while protesting their love of the very Constutution that decrees the Electoral College).

    2. If this occurs, we will see the mother of all birthings. I would expect at a minimum a congressional challenge on eligibility, since that only requires one Rep and one Senator and there are certainly enough birther-lite/Tea mob types to get that. I would expect that a paper b.c. will be provided direct from Hawaii and the congresscritters will reluctantly, and after some delay, accept it (given no real option to do otherwise). The birther howls will be heard in several nearby solar systems. A popular vote loss would provide cover to the birthier members of the GOP to take positions that they were unwilling to take in 2008 when the electoral result was indisputable.

    3. While this wiill be a circus, there will be serious implications because of the likely regional split in the vote-Obama will win by a healthy margin in the Northeast (assuming we aren’t all wiped out by Sandy) and the West (where the population is mostly in the coastal states and will win the Midwest by a lesser, but still decent, margin. He will, however, be absolutely obliterated in the South, except for Florida, where he will likely lose narrowly and Virginia (which is almost a Northeastern state these days). This likely explains the split we are seeing between national and state polls. I believe Gallup, which has Romney up by 4 or 5 % nationally has Obama leading in the Northeast, Midwest and West, but trailing by 20% or more in the South.

    I am quite concerned about this scenario, as I think it would be bad for the country, bad for the economy and frankly bad for the global situation in general. I sincerely hope that Obama ekes out a PV win, however narrow.

  124. misha marinsky says:
    October 27, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Scientist: The Republicans will not be the good sports that the Dems were in 2000, when they folded up their tents after the Supreme Court ruled and will simply not accept the legitimacy of Obama’s win (all the while protesting their love of the very Constutution that decrees the Electoral College).

    Mark my words: no matter how Obama wins, EV, popular vote, or both – there WILL be worse than OK City. It will start with GOOPers in Congress, then GOOPer talking heads… Orly will say on TV, ‘Obama’s brown shirts fixed the election.’

    Obama: 65.4 %
    Romney: 34.8 %
    http://www.predictwise.com/politics/2012presidentindividual

    Obama: 74.4%
    Romney: 25.6%
    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

    Fasten your seat belts…

  125. Majority Will says:
    October 27, 2012 at 5:48 pm

    “President Obama Inserts ‘Birther’ Joke Into Stump Speech In N.H.”

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/president-obama-inserts-birther-joke-into-stump-speech-in-n-h/

  126. Tomas Agent says:
    October 28, 2012 at 2:18 am

    Sorry if this has been posted already…I saw this today…More birther talk

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/10/are_obamas_1961_newspaper_birth_announcements_fake.html

    Are Obama’s 1961 Birth Announcements Fake?
    By Shawn Glasco

    What a long, strange journey it has been for the records of Barack Obama’s birth.

    Couldn’t the Obama camp just “release a copy of his birth certificate”?

    So asked Jim Geraghty of the National Review on June 9, 2008. Geraghty posed this question in response to an item in Politifact, the Tampa Bay Times fact-checking service, which seemed to dispel internet rumors that Obama’s full name was in fact “Barack Hussein Muhammed Obama.”

    Politifact researchers could find no public record of Obama’s with the name “Muhammed” in it. But that was not all they failed to find. They also proved unable “to obtain a copy of Obama’s birth certificate,” finally conceding that Obama’s “campaign would not release it and the state of Hawaii does not make such records public.”

    On June 12, 2008, just three days after Geraghty’s inquiry, a simple-looking Obama birth certificate mysteriously appeared on the website Daily Kos. The website’s founder Markos Moulitsas, author of the Saul Alinsky-inspired Taking On the System: Rules for Radical Change in a Digital Era, emphatically stated, “[H]ere is Obama’s birth certificate.”

    Moulitsas noted that the edges of the scan were trimmed, so any attempts to “debunk” the birth certificate based on its dimensions would be futile, and the precise date and time of Obama’s birth was an added “bonus” with which “astrologers” could work their calculations. Moulitsas boldly concluded that “the latest batch of crazy internet rumors” are now “debunked.”

    On the same day of the Daily Kos posting, PolitiFact received in their e-mail a copy of the same birth certificate from the previously unhelpful Obama campaign. Any and all pesky “Muhammed” middle name rumors were officially squelched.

    On June 28, 2008, Honolulu resident Thelma Lefforge Young passed away. Mrs. Lefforge’s address of 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy would soon appear on the web in a August 13, 1961 Honolulu Sunday Advertiser birth announcement: ‘Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, August 4.’

    Best evidence (hat tip: Butterdezillion) is that an image of the August 13 Honolulu Sunday Advertiser (with twenty-five birth listings) was first posted on the web sometime around July 23, 2008 by a documentary filmmaker named Lori Starfelt on a TexasDarlin blog. Starfelt’s heroes include Malcolm X, and her political writings include “More Americans Killed By Right Wing Terrorists In The 90s Than Foreign Terrorists.” Starfelt claimed that while working on a film titled The Audacity of Democracy, she received her copy from a nameless research librarian at the Hawaii State Library. Starfelt’s film was eventually released in 2009 to little or no fanfare.

    In addition, Starfelt said she “talked” to Department of Vital Records and the Honolulu Advertiser. She learned that in 1961, hospitals would take their birth records to Vital Records, which would post a sheet at the end of the week for the Honolulu Advertiser to pick up. The Advertiser would then “routinely” print this information in their Sunday edition.

    Starfelt calculated that since Obama was born on Friday, August 4, 1961, and since hospitals didn’t take birth certificate information for the first few days after a birth, Obama’s birth records would then be taken to Vital Records on the following Friday (August 11, 1961). Hence, Obama’s birth announcement appeared in the 8/13 Honolulu Sunday Advertiser.

    In fact, however, a ten-day sample of birth lists from the August 1961 Honolulu Advertiser, collected by blogger “Ladyforest,” shows that births were posted not just on Sunday, but throughout the week.

    8/8 Tuesday – 50 births
    8/9 Wednesday – 76 births
    8/10 Thursday – 82 births
    8/11 Friday – 0 births
    8/12 Saturday – 0 births
    8/13 Sunday – 25 births – Obama’s birth announcement
    8/14 Monday – 49 births
    8/15 Tuesday – 0 (?) births

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/10/are_obamas_1961_newspaper_birth_announcements_fake.html#ixzz2AZVJLdyw

  127. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 28, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Remarkably, all this time has passed and I never put The American Thinker on the blog’s “Ugly” list — now remedied.

    The full article is a good example of Anomaly Hunting, and argument by open-ended question.

    Yes, how likely is it that the newspaper announcements appeared in just exactly the order that they did?

    Tomas Agent: Sorry if this has been posted already…I saw this today…More birther talk

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/10/are_obamas_1961_newspaper_birth_announcements_fake.html

    Are Obama’s 1961 Birth Announcements Fake?
    By Shawn Glasco

  128. donna says:
    October 28, 2012 at 9:37 am

    4/23/2011

    Lost in the renewed scrutiny into President Barack Obama’s birth records is the fact that anyone can walk into a Hawaii vital records office, wait in line behind couples getting marriage licenses and open a baby-blue government binder containing basic information about his birth.

    Highlighted in yellow on page 1,218 of the thick binder is the computer-generated listing for a boy named Barack Hussein Obama II born in Hawaii, surrounded by the alphabetized last names of all other children born in-state between 1960 and 1964. This is the only government birth information, called “index data,” available to the public.

    So far this month, only The Associated Press and one other person had looked at the binder, according to a sign-in sheet viewed Wednesday in the state Department of Health building. The sheet showed about 25 names of people who have seen the document since March 2010, when the sign-in sheet begins.

    Those documents complement newspaper birth announcements published soon after Obama’s Aug. 4, 1961, birth and a “certification of live birth” released by the Obama campaign three years ago, the only type of birth certificate the state issues.

    So-called “birthers” claim there’s no proof Obama was born in the United States, and he is therefore ineligible to be president. Many of the skeptics suggest he was actually born in Kenya, his father’s home country, or Indonesia, where he spent a few years of his childhood.

    “Nobody has come in and said they’re investigating for Donald Trump,” said Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo, who acknowledged they could’ve come in without identifying themselves as representing Trump.

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/Obamas_birth_is_easily_verified_but_few_choose_to_do_so.html?id=120561054

  129. bgansel9 says:
    October 28, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Tomas Agent: Sorry if this has been posted already…I saw this today…More birther talk

    Thanks Tomas, I posted it yesterday, but it kind of got lost in the mix with the Rehnquist video. I’m glad your post got attention. 🙂

  130. Dr. Conspiracy says:
    October 28, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Pretty funny.

    Majority Will: “President Obama Inserts ‘Birther’ Joke Into Stump Speech In N.H.”

  131. Northland10 says:
    October 29, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    The other shoe dropped on Michael Jackson’s Illinois complaint to the Office of the Inspector General:

    http://obamaballotchallenge.com/michael-jackson-il-ig-complaint-denied

    I think his original complaint is here:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/90853036/IL-Inspector-General-Ethics-Complaint

  132. misha marinsky says:
    October 29, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Northland10: The other shoe dropped on Michael Jackson’s Illinois complaint to the Office of the Inspector General:

    Jackson’s e-mail addy is jesuschristsbloodsaves@gmail.com. Sounds about right.

  133. misha marinsky says:
    October 30, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    Zixi of Ix: – Why do you support affirmative action for the wealthy, but not for the ordinary?

    I don’t think I fully understand the question, but I don’t support affirmative action for anyone. It is not the government’s job to pick favorites.

    Affirmative action for the wealthy: I worked in New York for an optometrist, who wanted his son to go to optometry school. Unfortunately, his son had a C average. He told me the exact amount of the donation he made to the school’s endowment, and his son was admitted. The kid failed out the first semester. Same for my step-brother. He placed in the LSAT top 10%, but he had a C average. He found a law school around San Francisco, and he told me the breathtaking donation he made to their endowment.

    Conservatives are perfectly fine with affirmative action for the wealthy, like Shrub, but they become apoplectic over affirmative action for the ordinary.

    “It is not the government’s job to pick favorites.” Nixon started federal loan guarantees, for Lockheed.

  134. misha marinsky says:
    October 30, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    Zixi of Ix: But I am deeply bothered by the fact that Democrats are all about what the government can do for us collectively, but never want to talk about the individual or societal costs of these services.

    A week ago, I had life threatening asthma. I called the collectivist rescue squad, which took me to the city collectivist owned hospital, on streets built with confiscated earnings taxes. I spent three days there, one in the ICU.

    Israel, where I was a kibbutznik for a year, has socialized, universal health care. Please list the freedoms Israelis have given up.

    I guess I should have just called my local Libertarian Party headquarters, and asked them to help me. Or maybe just dropped dead, and saved the government the cost of my care.

    “Democrats are all about what the government can do for us collectively, but never want to talk about the individual or societal costs of these services.”

    Republicans don’t have any problem with welfare for the wealthy. Michele Bachmann took $250K in farm subsidies, while denouncing Obama and the road to socialism. Cattle ranchers do not pay market rates to graze on public land. Oil companies have the US military protect their sources, free of charge.

    See Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

    Cheney’s Halliburton had no-bid contracts lavished on them.

    “But I am deeply bothered…” Are you deeply bothered by any of the above?

  135. misha marinsky says:
    October 30, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    Zixi of Ix: I wish that the conversation about assistance included more discussion about how to make better choices in the future.

    Tell that to Sheldon Adelson, or Sarah Palin, or Willard Mitt Romney and Seamus.

  136. misha marinsky says:
    October 30, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    Zixi of Ix: 1. Why do you seek to paint me as anti-science or anti-evolution?

    99.9% of conservatives are. I challenge you to name one conservative, other than Gary Johnson, who is not anti-science and anti-progress. Actually, Johnson is a libertarian, and successful 2-term NM governor.

    Zixi of Ix: 2. Why do you seek to belittle with questions like “Why do you believe non-Christians should have their civil rights taken away”? Is the word “conservative” so bad

    Yes, “conservative” is offensive to me. Conservatives pander to the lowest common denominator. Disagree? Name one who does not.

    I don’t seek to belittle; conservatives walk right into it.

    Here’s Rick Sanctorum’s BFF: At a Baton Rouge revival yesterday, a pastor introducing Santorum told non-Christians to “get out” of America. Jay Michaelson wonders if there’s anything Santorum won’t tolerate.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/20/get-out-says-ethnic-cleansing-pastor-does-rick-santorum-agree.html

    Zixi of Ix: You owe me an unqualified apology, but I seriously doubt you will offer one. I have done absolutely not one single thing to be attacked with such sleazy questions.

    If you are above all of that, why do you associate with that vile crowd? I’m sorry you took umbrage, but you said you were a conservative, and I listed what conservatives believe.

    I will apologize when Coulter, Limbaugh, Beck, Palin and the rest apologize for the filth that comes from their mouths.

    Warning: if Magic Pants Mittens is elected, reproductive freedom will be criminalized and the wall between church and state will be torn down.

    Not every liberal spokesman is brilliant, but Bill Maher never sunk to level of pond scum like Coulter, or Bachmann.

    Bill Maher’s Mitt Romney Warning: ‘When You Elect Mitt You’re Electing Every Right-Wing Nut He’s Pandered To In The Last 10 Years’

    “When you elect Mitt you’re electing every right wing nut he’s pandered to in the last 10 years. If the Mitt-mobile does roll into Washington it’ll be towing behind it the whole anti-intellectual, anti-science freakshow.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/27/bill-maher-mitt-romney-warning_n_2030187.html

  137. misha marinsky says:
    October 30, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    The GOP and their evangelical amen chorus are the ones who are sleazy.

  138. misha marinsky says:
    October 30, 2012 at 10:14 pm

    Zixi of Ix: I wish that the conversation about assistance included more discussion about how to make better choices in the future.

    I completely agree:

    Huckabee Squashed Charges Against His Son For Stoning, Hanging Dog

    (Miller County, Arkansas) Two boy scout counselors, 17 year old Clayton Frady and 18 year old David litickabee [sic], the son of Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, have admitted to catching a stray dog during their summer session at Camp Pioneer in Hatfield, AR, and hanging the dog by his neck, slitting his throat and stoning him to death.

    http://crooksandliars.com/2007/12/16/huckabee-squashed-charges-against-his-son-for-stoning-hanging-dog

    Nice crowd you associate with.

  139. misha marinsky says:
    October 30, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    Zixi: I challenge you to name one liberal/progressive, who has done any of the above.

  140. misha marinsky says:
    October 30, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    “Democrats are all about what the government can do for us collectively, but never want to talk about the individual or societal costs of these services.”

    Like Iraq and ‘Stan, which we will be paying for, over the next 50 years.

    When Shrub walked through the door, there was a ~$212M surplus. When Obama walked through the door, there was a $1T deficit.

    If you listen to Mittens, the Democrats are responsible for that. Republicans only care about deficits when there is a liberal president.

  141. Joe Acerbic says:
    October 31, 2012 at 2:07 am

    For general amusement, here’s a real conspiracy theory classic adapted to Obama Derangement Syndrome:

    http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/10/29/conspiracy-theorists-say-obama-engineered-hurricane-sandy

  142. Scientist says:
    October 31, 2012 at 9:04 am

    misha marinsky: “Democrats are all about what the government can do for us collectively, but never want to talk about the individual or societal costs of these services.”

    In the last few days we have seen, very graphically, the limits of what individuals can do for themselves. Individuals cannot forecast when a storm will arise in the Carribbean and come up the coast and merge with a jet stream dip. They cannot tell where and when and with what consequences such a storm will slam into the coast (yes, I am aware that there are private companies who do weather forecasts, but they are dependent for their raw data, without which they are toast, on NOAA and its sattelites and buoys and aircraft).

    Nor can individuals bear the costs of massive rebuilding efforts, mostly not covered by private insurance Nor can they, in the nation’s and the world’s financial center, get to work or generate electricity. Nor can even very large private companies do the job without government assistance.

    So what is Romney’s response? Let’s donate canned goods in Ohio. Well, whoop-de-do, as Archie Bunker used to say. Sorry, but by the time the canned beans get from Ohio to NYC or New Jersey, they will not be needed and if they got there today, there is no power to heat them. A nice gesture, but, frankly, useless,

    And he says, get rid of FEMA. Let the states do it. Perhaps he ought to ask his friend Chris Christie if New Jersey maybe could use a bit of help For a businessman, Mitt seems strangely ignorant of the #1 principle of risk management, which is SPREAD THE RISK AS BROADLY AS POSSIBLE. You see, the great advantage of having a huge country spread over a continent, is that even the greatest disaster will only affect a part of the country So, we in the Northeast send our tax dollars when tornadoes or hurricanes hit the South or wildfires hit the West or earthquakes hit the Pacific Rim or drought hits the Midwest, and when we get flooded out, you help with yours. Not canned beans, but actual assistance to rebuild critical infrastructure. By the way, the blue states in the Northeast have been sending more to Washington than they have gotten back for decades now. How about some elemental fairness, Mitt?

    Not to mention the mentionable to conservatives- climate change. Irene last year was a 500 year event in the interior. Now, only 14 months later, a 500 year event at the coast. Two 500 year events in a year. Do you think maybe something is going on? But let’s not have any collective action. Nosiree. No, let’s even scrap the fuel efficiency standards already agreed to. Why? Why is a businessman against efficiency?

    So I ask my conservative friends, what are you “conserving” if you will not conserve the planet we live on? Why do you even need a country if we are simply a collection of individuals and states unable to take collectiive action to save our collective necks? Apparently collective action in some godforsaken outpost in the Midde East is OK, but not to shore up coastal barriers so the city where your retirement funds and mine sit can survive rising sea levels, let alone actually try to slow that sea level rise.

    Sorry for the rant, but this whole “I am a rugged individual” Tea Party crap makes me sick to my stomach right about now.

  143. misha marinsky says:
    October 31, 2012 at 9:40 am

    Hey, Zixi: Here’s another gem from the Huckster:

    Huckabee Says Christians Will Go to Hell If They Vote Obama

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/10/30/mike_huckabee_to_christians_vote_for_obama_and_face_the_fires_of_hell.html

    “Many issues are at stake, but some issues are not negotiable: The right to life from conception to natural death. Marriage should be reinforced, not redefined. It is an egregious violation of our cherished principle of religious liberty for the government to force the Church to buy the kind of insurance that leads to the taking of innocent human life.

    Your vote will affect the future and be recorded in eternity. Will you vote the values that will stand the test of fire? This is Mike Huckabee asking you to join me November 6th and vote based on values that will stand the test of fire.”

    Yeah, like that dog his son tortured to death.

    Civil rights are for Christians only. WND, Sanctorum and the Huckster say so.

    Remember? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/21/1076576/-Dennis-Terry-trying-to-scrub-GET-OUT-speech-from-Web

    Dennis Terry trying to scrub “GET OUT” speech from Web – For the last two days, Baton Rouge pastor Dennis Terry has been trying–and not too convincingly–to claim that he didn’t really tell liberals and anyone else who doesn’t by the “Christian Nation” myth to “GET OUT!” Today, he and his cohorts at Greenwell Springs Baptist Church proved just how hollow that claim was. They’re actively trying to scrub all reference to it from the Web.

    People for the American Way’s Kyle Mantyla reports that all videos of Sunday night’s event with Rick Santorum have been removed from the church Website. Not only that, but the church’s minister of music, Jeremy Dailey, asked “all GSBC members and friends of GSBC” to remove all reference to the message from their Facebook feeds.

  144. The Magic M says:
    October 31, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Scientist: Sorry for the rant, but this whole “I am a rugged individual” Tea Party crap makes me sick to my stomach right about now.

    Well said!

  145. Paper says:
    October 31, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Hear, hear!

    Scientist: In the last few days we have seen, very graphically, the limits of what individuals can do for themselves.

    </blockquote

  146. Rickey says:
    October 31, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Speaking of conspiracy theories:

    http://current.com/1d120kc

  147. misha marinsky says:
    October 31, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Hey Zixi, here’s another Christian telling non-Christians to get out:

    “…it does not matter that you are a Jew. What you fail to understand is that this Country was founded on Christianity from our Fathers before us and if you dont like it then go somewhere else and stop trying to conform this Nation to your Godless ways.”

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/10/30/mike_huckabee_to_christians_vote_for_obama_and_face_the_fires_of_hell.html

  148. Keith says:
    October 31, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    Reality… there IS an app for that!

    zFacts: the Reality App

  149. Majority Will says:
    October 31, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    Donald Trump To Make Robo-Calls, Campaign Stops For Mitt Romney Before Election

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/31/donald-trump-mitt-romney_n_2050866.html

  150. Scientist says:
    November 1, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    According to Rush Limbaugh, Colin Powell only endorsed Obama because he is black. So, now that Bloomberg has endorsed him as well, does that make Obama Jewish?

  151. JPotter says:
    November 1, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Scientist: And he says, get rid of FEMA. Let the states do it. Perhaps he ought to ask his friend Chris Christie if New Jersey maybe could use a bit of help

    Well said, and I would chime in with a suggestion to inquire with the governor of Florida ….. how many times has FEMA cleaned up Florida now? It could be called “FEMAstan, the State That FEMA (Re)Built.”

    Speaking of … compare the Clinton-era FEMA to the Bush version. FEMA is a case-study in conservative demolition-by-dumb-down of government.

    And, hey, let’s hear it for Federal Flood Insurance. I’m sure all the Republicans on the waterfront are more than happy to let the other guys hang, but let’s see them put their money where their house is and just shrug while the deluge dissolves their home. What they worry? They have their precious (misguided) principles for consolation!

  152. misha marinsky says:
    November 1, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    Scientist: According to Rush Limbaugh, Colin Powell only endorsed Obama because he is black.So, now that Bloomberg has endorsed him as well, does that make Obama Jewish?

    Of course. True story:
    Louis Armstrong was an honorary Jew http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_armstrong

    He also worked for a Lithuanian-Jewish immigrant family, the Karnofskys, who had a junk hauling business and gave him odd jobs. They took him in and treated him as almost a family member, knowing he lived without a father, and would feed and nurture him. He later wrote a memoir of his relationship with the Karnofskys titled, Louis Armstrong + the Jewish Family in New Orleans, La., the Year of 1907. In it he describes his discovery that this family was also subject to discrimination by “other white folks’ nationalities who felt that they were better than the Jewish race… I was only seven years old but I could easily see the ungodly treatment that the White Folks were handing the poor Jewish family whom I worked for.” Armstrong wore a Star of David pendant for the rest of his life and wrote about what he learned from them: “how to live—real life and determination.” The influence of Karnofsky is remembered in New Orleans by the Karnofsky Project, a non-profit organization dedicated to accepting donated musical instruments to “put them into the hands of an eager child who could not otherwise take part in a wonderful learning experience.”

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