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Truth and Transparency

I must admit: this one was a shock.

Ball, LA

Ball, LA

WorldNetDaily, a front organization for a few right-wing millionaires trying to build mind share through manipulation of the news, has launched what it calls its “truth and transparency” campaign. “Lies and smears” is what it really is, as WorldNetDaily has been associated time and time again with publishing outright lies (such as the infamous “travel ban” to Pakistan).

The sign disturbs me because it is promoting class warfare–not class warfare between the rich and poor, not class warfare between liberals and conservatives, but class warfare between people with common sense and the stupid.

Some commenters have suggested that the billboard image is fake. It is real. I called the Ball city Police Department and the dispatcher remembered seeing the sign. The sign is one of the new electronic signs, which I suppose accounts for its odd appearance. The following one is definitely fake, because I made it myself:

wnd-needle

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244 Responses to Truth and Transparency

  1. avatar
    Black Lion May 21, 2009 at 9:37 am #

    I would not take World Net Daily seriously. They have been exposed as liars on numerous occasions. Go to ConWebWatch.com and you will see how they use innuendo and made up facts to promote their agenda, which is hatred of Obama. As a matter of fact they back in August of 2008 had certified that the copy of Obama’s BC was real and did show that he was born in the US. They then did a 180 and now claim that it is not to pull in the current sheep that believe that it is not. Joesph Farrah despises Obama and all of his writers will make up stories to discredit him. They even still support the discredited claims of the convicted criminal Larry Sinclair. Also WND wanted all of their readers to “donate” to the cause. It is interesting how all of these anti-Obama and birhter sites always want you to give them money or donations. That should be the first hint that their is some sort of other agenda. However the people that read this sites and believe that crap are easy prey.

  2. avatar
    SvenMagnussen May 21, 2009 at 9:46 am #

    Why doesn’t Obama have an aide of an Adviser order several copies of his BC and send it to the NYT, WaPo, Fox News and WND?

    That would end the controversy over NBC.

  3. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 10:02 am #

    It wouldn’t. And the copies of his COLB are still freely available.
    So why would he? As there is no real controversy, other than a manufactroversy created by some who oppose the President for various reasons.

  4. avatar
    Black Lion May 21, 2009 at 10:14 am #

    Why should he give in? Until a legitimate government agency requests the document, he should not provide it. And the US State department has already decided that President Obama is a US citizen by issuing him a US passport. And as for World Net Daily, that rag behind the billboards, here is a quote from an article written by their writer Drew Zahn on August 23, 2008…

    “A separate WND investigation into Obama’s birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren’t originally there.”

    I think that pretty much sums it up…It is curious that a so call news website would write that and then less than a year later claim “Where’s that Birth Certificate” Besides even if he did allow people like Orly, Fox, and WMD to look at his actual COLB, how many of you want to bet that they would then claim that it was forged using a 1960’s printing press from Canada….It is a no win situation for him because the disbelievers don’t want to believe him.

  5. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 10:28 am #

    Remember, while WND and others are wasting resources and expenses on this non-issue, they are not working on opposing immediate policy decisions by the new Administration.

    Let’s move forward on the environment, healthcare and the economy. So far things are going quite according to plan. Was it not just the other day that our President brought together the various relevant players to agree on new emission standards and efficiency standards for automobiles?

  6. avatar
    Kevin Bellas May 21, 2009 at 10:48 am #

    I was just about to post the link to this WND statement.

  7. avatar
    misha May 21, 2009 at 11:01 am #

    Glad you mentioned cars. Norquist is now calling Obama a fascist for imposing the new standards: “Fascism allows individuals to own the means of production but the government will tell them what to produce.”

    Here’s the link:

    http://www.politico.com/arena/bio/grover_norquist.html

  8. avatar
    Heavy May 21, 2009 at 11:04 am #

    Sven, it’ll NEVER happen. He knows what he is hiding. It is up to us to make it public.

  9. avatar
    Heavy May 21, 2009 at 11:05 am #

    Yes, doc. You are correct. It is warfare and it has only just begun.

  10. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 11:19 am #

    Even to it is not hidden? After all, all the known facts indicate that President Obama was born in Honolulu Hawaii.
    Perhaps, it’s up to you to accept this?

  11. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 11:21 am #

    Through surrender? Wow… The goal posts keep on moving… Any time soon now, we will hear about the ‘smoking gun’, the lawsuit that will end all lawsuits. In the mean time we have all the evidence that strongly suggests that President Obama was born on US soil.

    Not much of a fight really.

  12. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 11:26 am #

    Cool, with support from Norquist, we now know that Obama is doing the right thing. Great things lie ahead for our Country. I am proud to be a citizen of this ‘great Country’.

  13. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 11:30 am #

    Does anyone remember Monty Python’s black knight


    Arthur shrugs his shoulders and, with a mighty swing, removes the Black Knight's last limb. The Knight falls to the ground. He looks about, realizing he can't move.

    Black Knight: Okay, we'll call it a draw.
    Arthur: Come, Pasty! (they "ride" away)

    Black Knight: (calling after them) Oh! Had enough, eh? Come back and take what's coming to you, you yellow bastards!! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!

  14. avatar
    HistorianDude May 21, 2009 at 11:46 am #

    It would make no difference whatsoever. At least two of these have already come out and declared the currently available COLB authentic… Fox News and WND. What did that change?

    There is no more genuine a controversy over NBC than there is over the perpetrators of 9/11, biologic evolution or the sphericity of the earth.

  15. avatar
    SvenMagnussen May 21, 2009 at 11:59 am #

    In 1992, Barack and Michelle Obama attended a Rose Garden Ceremony at the White House with President Bill Clinton and First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton. The Obama’s were participating in a celebration of the success of community organization successes throughout the country.

    A hard drive with a terabyte of data (millions of books worth) missing from the National Archives. A backup copy is still under control of the National Archives.

    Certainly, a background investigation was conducted on the Obamas in 1992. I think Obama would want to get out in front of his “truth” in 2009 before the 1992 truth sees the light of day.

  16. avatar
    SvenMagnussen May 21, 2009 at 12:30 pm #

    I really butchered my last comment. As Lisa Lubner would say, “Nevermind.”

    1993: Public Allies Chicago with 30 Allies is launched by founding Executive Director Michelle Obama. President Clinton names Public Allies a model for national service. First Lady Hilary Clinton hosts Rose Garden reception for Public Allies at the White House.

    Barack escorted his wife to the Rose Garden Ceremony. So I’m sure his background, as well as Michelle’s background, was investigated and archived.

  17. avatar
    misha May 21, 2009 at 12:58 pm #

    My favorite is when they trot up to a castle:

    “We have ridden across all England, in search of the Holy Grail.”

    “You ain’t ridin’. Those are coconuts.”

    “Oh, never mind.”

  18. avatar
    Heavy May 21, 2009 at 1:03 pm #

    Actually, you will hear less and less in the coming months. Now the REAL work begins. Justice will be swift and complete.

  19. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 1:09 pm #

    Conspiracies everywhere. But as usual, low on any facts.

    Typical

  20. avatar
    kimba May 21, 2009 at 1:21 pm #

    The idea that top secret Obama info might be on the loose makes birthers all tingly doesn’t it? I can already tell this one’s going to become birther lore: a missing Clinton-era hard drive contains the Holy Grail of Obama ineligibility.

    By the way, Background checks, (actually it’s a posssible criminal check), ID, etc. to enter the White House is a post-9/11 phenomena.

  21. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 1:38 pm #

    Justice has already been swift and complete. What more do you expect?

  22. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 1:42 pm #

    How did the coconuts reach the Island though? European or African swallow? I don’t know. Arghhhhhhhhhh

  23. avatar
    TRUTH May 21, 2009 at 2:02 pm #

    I heard something amazing this morning. William (Bill) Gates was recognized by Mr. Obama as Secretary of Defense, while reading his teleprompter. No wonder Bill quit Microsoft, he had to run the nations…oops, wait a moment.. Teleprompter Typo. That was supposed to say Robert Gates. SORRY about that Mr. “O”, we’ll get it right next time. ONE for the Tele. Change you can Laugh At.

    I just had an epiphany – COLB = Change Only Liars Believe. Hmmm. DON’T take it personally, its a joke, I’m not calling anyone a liar here. It just hit me and I had to share that.

  24. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 2:11 pm #

    Lacking content, truth is hiding behind trivialities.

    How sad to see truth become a victim here.

  25. avatar
    Black Lion May 21, 2009 at 2:12 pm #

    Sven’s comments are strainght from Orly’s birther talking points….They are so desparate for some sort of “smoking gun” that they would think that this had something to do with Obama…According to their thinking Obama wanted the World Trade Center destroyed (9/11) because it contained his real birth certificate and he wanted to hide it from the American people because 7 years later he would be President….These people are delusional…

  26. avatar
    kimba May 21, 2009 at 2:24 pm #

    Now why would Obama’s birth certificate be in the World Trade Center? Wait, didn’t Heavy tell us the Birth Certificate didn’t matter because both parents must be citizens? Gah, I wish the birthers would make up their minds! I thought the blind cleric was going to give Corsi the BC but then Ed Hale found it at the port of entry. How could that be if it was destroyed in 9/11? Did Steve Pidgeon and Ed Hale rip us off?

  27. avatar
    JeffSF May 21, 2009 at 2:56 pm #

    The very funny part is- I bet most people- even those in Ball, LA read that and go ‘huh’? ‘wonder what that means’?

    Nobody outside of the conspiracists and those of us finding amusement in them knows or cares about this so called conspiracy. I have never actually talked with anyone who has heard of this.

    So avid readers of WND, all 120 of them, will understand and take comfort in the billboard. Everyone else will be as confused by the question as much as they don’t know or care who WND is.

    Oh just a moment’s reflection on WND. I look at it occasionally just to see what the article of the day is on each of their subjects- you know: Obama, abortion, christianity under attack and how Israel is being sold out- all mixed in between and interchangeable with offers to sell books that will cure anything and tell you the ‘real’ truth about this or that.

  28. avatar
    Heavy May 21, 2009 at 3:14 pm #

    No kimba, hon. I never said that. Wrong “Birther”. But what do you care about accuracy and truth?

  29. avatar
    richCares May 21, 2009 at 3:25 pm #

    here’s an important link for heavy:
    Finding a Mental Health Specialist
    http://www.psycheducation.org/FAQ/find.htm

  30. avatar
    JeffSF May 21, 2009 at 3:27 pm #

    A statement and a question:
    IF, against all current evidence, at some point in time there is solid proof, that is validated through the court system that Barrack Obama does not, and did not meet the “natural born citizen” requirements of the Constitution, I would in that case support his impeachment. That is because I truely do support the Constitution.

    My question to Heavy, Sven and TRUTH- is there any point where the total lack of evidence and validation in the justice system where you could possibly believe that President Obama was and is legally qualified to be President? If the mysterious holy grail of the BC is pulled out and authenticated by the Pope and Rush Limbaugh will you stop and go “guess he really is qualified and my calling him an Ursurper was wrong”? I am really curious, because reading Heavy’s bizarre paranoid posts, and Sven’s mangled evidence trails…I just can’t imagine you letting go of this regardless of any evidence.

  31. avatar
    TRUTH May 21, 2009 at 3:39 pm #

    Its Trivial your President is such an Idiot he READs from a Teleprompter and Calls our SECDEF William Gates? OK, thats YOUR opinion. Was it me or did he seem a bit Miffed today because everyone was against bringing Terrorist Prisoners into the U.S.? SURE BarOck, just allocate $80million with NO plan, hell you did $700billion in stimulus with no plan, why not this?

  32. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 3:42 pm #

    Oh the irony of it all. It’s killing me

  33. avatar
    richCares May 21, 2009 at 3:42 pm #

    the June issue of Scientific American just named the 10 most influential people in science, Obama was among those 10, not bad for a telepromping usurper!

  34. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 3:45 pm #

    Anyone makes mistakes. It’s the larger policy matters and his abilities to bring together the interest groups which makes him such a successful President.

    But I understand, we have not been exposed to much of a leadership in the last decades, so I understand why you are somewhat reluctant.

    Fine with me, while you focus on trivialities, Obama is focusing on the large picture, inspite of a few detractors who’d rather return to the ‘old days’ of torture and ever reducing constitutional rights.

  35. avatar
    TRUTH May 21, 2009 at 3:47 pm #

    That is EXACTLY Right. You can’t imagine it, because it’s your opinion, not a Factual thing, as you all keep insisting is NEEDED, Opinions aren’t sufficient…Unless your Democrat I guess.

    And had your read LONG ago, you’d known I long ago stated I believe he Probably Is(as far as a B.C.) Qualified. ALL I ever said was if the damn thing exists, like they SAY it does, show it and stop all this Senseless Bickering. BUT NO!, for SOME odd reason they prefer to leave concerned citizens in the dark. NBC and everyone like him can only say “it won’t make a difference”, again…their Opinions…worth squat. Show me a FACT NBC, Keep your opinion AND the Change, I don’t need it.

  36. avatar
    jtx May 21, 2009 at 3:57 pm #

    “Lack of evidence”???

    Hardly – you merely do not wish to accept any of the evidence that is available and there will be more made available when the first court of law decides to hear one of the 40 or so cases upon the merits rather than dodging.

    Even the O-borters own website admits he was a Brit at birth. Sorry fanboys, that’s not the same thing as a natural born citizen.

  37. avatar
    TRUTH May 21, 2009 at 3:59 pm #

    Reluctant to what NBC? I’m not sure if your naive or just arrogant.
    Lack of Leadership? HA!! One minute you all cry “He has only been in office a few months, you have to give him more time to prove himself”…which is same as saying he’s done nothing so far. Then the next minute you want to say “hes a Leader with abilities that make him a successful President”. NBC, is that No Bloody Clue?

  38. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 4:10 pm #

    Show me a FACT NBC, Keep your opinion AND the Change, I don’t need it.

    I show you the facts, it’s just that your beliefs cause you to insist that Obama somehow goes out of his way to provide additional evidence where the available evidence is sufficient.

    Simple really. And the facts include that noone has managed to show standing in obtaining the documents that they believe would somehow contradict the facts.
    You certainly have the right to complain, however Obama has the right to ignore you.

  39. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 4:12 pm #

    Even the O-borters own website admits he was a Brit at birth. Sorry fanboys, that’s not the same thing as a natural born citizen.

    He was a british citizen and a US natural born citizen at birth. What’s so hard to understand here, that children born to foreign nationals may have dual nationalities during their childhood?
    It happens and it does nothing to undermine the fact that anyone born in the US is a natural born citizen.

  40. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 4:13 pm #

    Nice of you putting words in my mouth but I notice little facts and much sputtering.
    As to your question, I am probably naive and arrogant at the same time for believing that those poorly informed about the facts can change their ways.

  41. avatar
    JeffSF May 21, 2009 at 4:54 pm #

    JTX- let us seperate the issues so I can respond distinctly
    Natural Born Citizen
    Claim #1: Obama was not born in U.S.- please note any actual evidence- evidence that would be allowable in court- that shows he was not born in the U.S.. There are two solid pieces of evidence that show he was born in the U.S.
    Claim #2: Obama is ineligible because he had dual citizenship at birth. The problem with this claim is that no credible authority agrees with the Birthers that this is a disqualifier. The host of this website has detailed this several times using actual historical references. This is a matter of your opinion, not a matter of established law. But if you want to provide evidence that this is established law, feel free- I am willing to look at any credible source.

    “when the first court of law decides to hear one of the 40 or so cases upon the merits rather than dodging.”

    Are you really arguing that Courts should ignore the law in order to enforce the law? These cases are being dismissed because they do not have a legal basis. I know it is frustrating that no courts will listen to you, just as it is frustrating for the courts to have these frivolous(as in without merit, besides having no standing) cases filed over and over. Multiple filings doesn’t make an accusation stronger, it just means Orly is finding more fellow travellers.

  42. avatar
    JeffSF May 21, 2009 at 5:01 pm #

    Truth-
    “ALL I ever said was if the damn thing exists, like they SAY it does, show it and stop all this Senseless Bickering. BUT NO!”

    So Truth- are you saying that if he did produce a birth certificate vetted by the Pope, Rush Limbaugh and Kenneth Star you would be satisfied- thats the only concern you have regarding his potential qualification? My exagerations excused- who should he be presenting this BC to? Who is qualified to confirm it?

    “for SOME odd reason they prefer to leave concerned citizens in the dark”

    Are you implying that all elected officials must respond to the demands of any concerned citizen? Are there any limits? If one citizen demands DNA evidence to show that the President is indeed human, should that citizen be responded to?

  43. avatar
    mimi May 21, 2009 at 5:03 pm #

    WingNutDaily previously said the Birth Certificate was genuine.

    Now… they peddle the lies.

    That’s credible.

  44. avatar
    JeffSF May 21, 2009 at 5:08 pm #

    Its Trivial your President is such an Idiot “he READs from a Teleprompter and Calls our SECDEF William Gates?”

    It is trivial- but then again I often laughed at Bush’s repeated verbal gaffes so its all fair game. I know that I am appreciating having an articulate President after 8 years of a Harvard grad who spoke like he hadn’t graduated 8th grade just to ingratiate himself with the undereducated.

    “OK, thats YOUR opinion. Was it me or did he seem a bit Miffed today because everyone was against bringing Terrorist Prisoners into the U.S.?”

    I thought he was trying to sell his program. He said during his campaign that he would close down the base(and McCain did so too) and he was voted in on that platform, so yes I think he is rather miffed that everyone is suddenly acting shocked”

    “SURE BarOck, just allocate $80million with NO plan, hell you did $700billion in stimulus with no plan, why not this?”

    I do hope you felt the same way when the Bush administration went to war and basically told Congress “trust me”. Don’t misunderstand- I think President Obama should present Congress with a plan, and I think Congress should be involved. However, after 8 years of an administration that balked at any attempt by Congress to question any of its assumed perogatives, I find it rather hypocritical of the Republicans to assume some high moral ground now.

  45. avatar
    Mary Brown May 21, 2009 at 5:27 pm #

    Now they really have gone back in time. Perhaps some folks my age might remember the Impeach Earl Warren billboards that were common in a certain part of this country after Brown vs. The Board of Education.

  46. avatar
    Patriot1776 May 21, 2009 at 5:32 pm #

    I like (not) the way Farah thinks his is a “news agency”. LOL!

    I just wish I would have thought of milking the ignorant like that!

  47. avatar
    TRUTH May 21, 2009 at 6:24 pm #

    JSF, unlike NBC I dont need you to repeat everything I say to remember what I said. But LIKE NBC, you need to read better. I said, (as far as the B.C.). I will never think Barrack Obama is qualified to be the Commander in Chief. He is poor at best to fill the position. AND also a reading error on your part, I believe the man is Probably Qualified, More than likely born in HI. I SAID, just show it and move on, which will NEVER happen if its up to democrats.

    Now if your going to continue to build on your questions in an attempt to make some lame point, asking one question after another, just give it a rest. I made myself clear, if you can’t understand it I don’t know what else to say to you. You guys luv it to death saying words like “birthers” and “usurpers”. I’m reallly not that into this horsecrap. I’m a black and white kind of person. It’s not like 15 people are asking to see the article, so save your sarcasm. And Limbaugh has more knowledge and heart than Obama will ever have. You and Yours just hate him because he calls Obama to the carpet Every single Day. It just pisses you off to no end to hear your boy called out. If you want to real quality entertainment, tune into Mark Levins radio show. Then read his book, if you dare, if you can read.

  48. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion May 21, 2009 at 6:48 pm #

    “No kimba, hon. I never said that. Wrong “Birther”. But what do you care about accuracy and truth?”

    Rather more than you do it seems.

  49. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion May 21, 2009 at 6:52 pm #

    You know, it amazes me how some people who claim to be such uberpatriots love to act tough and talk treason simply because they lost an election.

    Of course, the fact that they’re no credible evidence to support their wild-eyed claims doesn’t help their behaviour much either. Instead they whine and pout and stamp their feel and call people names that better describe their words and behaviour (can we say “projection much”).

    I suspect strongly you’re simply another internet tough guy, a member of the 101st Fighting Keyboards. All talk, no action.

  50. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 6:53 pm #

    And Limbaugh has more knowledge and heart than Obama will ever have.

    Now I get it, a troll…

    Then read his book, if you dare, if you can read.

    Yup. Well done, the use of the name TRUTH should have given it away. I feel a bit foolish for not having considered this option earlier.

  51. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion May 21, 2009 at 6:55 pm #

    Is it my imagination, or does that look like a poor photoshop job?

  52. avatar
    aarrgghh May 21, 2009 at 6:59 pm #

    i took a short tour through some of those goal posts on monday:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/18/732069/-certifigate:-all-we-need

    … good times.

  53. avatar
    meson May 21, 2009 at 7:03 pm #

    I was thinking the same thing, looks like one of those automatic sign generators like this one. There are others in which you can use a photo of your own.

  54. avatar
    meson May 21, 2009 at 7:12 pm #

    Indeed, it looks like something produced by one of those automatic sign generators software!

  55. avatar
    Kevin Bellas May 21, 2009 at 7:46 pm #

    That’s exactly what it is.

  56. avatar
    TollandRCR May 21, 2009 at 8:02 pm #

    There is an unusual jagged and colored edge at the lower left of the “sign.” This could, I suppose, be the fault of a camera, but it also looks much more to me like an image that has been altered with PhotoShop.

    There is no current news from Ball, LA, about such a billboard. That may be because the news media are slow there or are ignoring it, or it may be because there is nothing there.

    The exact site in Ball ought to be easily identified. Does anyone on this forum live near the Ball area who could check it out?

    Remember this item from FR?

    “Our friends at The Patriot Depot just received a call from Rosemarie in Ball, Louisiana alerting Patriot Depot that her brother-in-law was stopped by small town Louisiana police and detained by the roadside for half an hour. A background check was conducted to determine whether he was a member of an “extremist” group. Why? Her brother-in-law (name not disclosed for privacy) had purchased and displayed a conservative “Don’t Tread on Me” bumper sticker on his car.”

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2009 at 8:09 pm #

    No, it wouldn’t end anything.

  58. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2009 at 8:17 pm #

    Actually WND has a huge readership. They are in the top 3,000 web sites on the Internet (see alexa.com).

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2009 at 8:18 pm #

    It’s better than what Jimmy Carter called Hubert Humphrey.

  60. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2009 at 8:20 pm #

    And jtx demonstrates the futility of producing a birth certificate in addition to the birth certificate already produced.

    jtx, like others from his tribe have this fantasy that US Presidents must have citizen parents and as jtx correctly points out Obama doesn’t have two citizen parents.

  61. avatar
    Jim Buzzell May 21, 2009 at 8:35 pm #

    If you take as fact that Obama was born in Hawaii. It still does not make him a “natural born citizen” since his father was not a citizen of the United States and owed his alegence to The United Kingdon.

    The US Constitution requires both parents be US citizens to be able to bestow natual born status on their child.

    That said, even if the child is born out of wedlock, it still requires both parents must be US citizens.

  62. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 8:47 pm #

    The US Constitution requires both parents be US citizens to be able to bestow natual born status on their child.

    No it does not.

    If you take as fact that Obama was born in Hawaii. It still does not make him a “natural born citizen” since his father was not a citizen of the United States and owed his alegence to The United Kingdon.

    It’s not something I take as a fact, it is what the facts show. As to not making him an NBC, you are wrong again. I notice once again that you are making assertions which could have been resolved with some minimal independent research.

    too bad you chose to air your ignorance.

  63. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 8:50 pm #

    Oh and just in case you want to support your case, tell us where the Constitution requires the two parents to be US citizens…

    Good luck

  64. avatar
    NBC May 21, 2009 at 8:53 pm #

    Oh and

    In United States v. Rhodes (1866), Mr. Justice Swayne, sitting in the Circuit Court, said:

    All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England. . . . We find no warrant for the opinion [p663] that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States. It has always obtained here with the same vigor, and subject only to the same exceptions, since as before the Revolution.

    As quoted in US v Wong Kim Ark 169 U.S. 649

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2009 at 9:08 pm #

    I have a book on my shelf: Ronald Reagan’s Reign of Error.

  66. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2009 at 9:15 pm #

    I prefer Al Franken’s book: Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot.

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2009 at 9:32 pm #

    The first time I saw it, I did wonder if it was real. No matter how much I think WND is unreliable, I’m willing to trust them on this one, especially because it is so plausible.

    Or not.

    WND is just sloppy enough in their fact checking to have swallowed a fake photo like this, although I doubt that they fabricated it themselves.

  68. avatar
    Heidi May 21, 2009 at 9:47 pm #

    OMG! You still with this stupid idea of the NBC. Obama was born in Hawaii (jus soli) his mom is American(jus sanguini) The Constitution does not define the term NBC.
    Tell me then how Chester Arthur was president? his father was Irish! Another one:
    Perkins v Elg Case(1939) and the last one:
    Anchor babies are considered NBC!

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2009 at 10:02 pm #

    I’m no image expert. At higher magnification, the “defect” at lower left looks like part of a safety rail. If anything, that bit rather adds to the credibility of the image. The program tag on the image says: “MediaOne 2.10” rather than Photoshop. The image looks dodgy, no question.

  70. avatar
    misha May 21, 2009 at 10:03 pm #

    This is amusing to watch. The birthers keep adding conditions to deny Obama is a NBC. This is the latest. No matter what, the Birthers will never accept Obama, and they will keep trying to hound him out of office.

    Jim Buzzell – ‘The US Constitution requires both parents be US citizens to be able to bestow natual born status on their child.’

    ” United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), regarding children of non-citizen Chinese immigrants born in United States. The court ruled that the children were U.S. citizens.”

    And

    “The Civil Rights Act of 1866 had already granted U.S. citizenship to all people born in the United States; the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment added this principle into the Constitution”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    This will be going on for the next 100 years. They’re already starting on Jindal.

  71. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2009 at 10:12 pm #

    Jim, where did you come by such a fantastic concoction?

  72. avatar
    Gordon May 21, 2009 at 11:47 pm #

    I saw this on Team Sarah a few days ago. Those twits were sending donations to help get the sign done.

  73. avatar
    Gordon May 21, 2009 at 11:48 pm #

    Were does it say that in the Constitution? We’ll give you a week to research it.

  74. avatar
    Gordon May 21, 2009 at 11:51 pm #

    Common rule in dealing with the delusional is not to feed the delusion. Obama is done with this as is the majority of Americans. No time to feed the Trolls.

  75. avatar
    Gordon May 21, 2009 at 11:53 pm #

    Heavy is having a revolution in his neurons.

  76. avatar
    Gordon May 21, 2009 at 11:55 pm #

    No one is bickering, the country and Obama has moved on. You poor self deluded individuals are left to your own devices. Game, set and match.

  77. avatar
    Gordon May 21, 2009 at 11:56 pm #

    What’s any of that got to do with anything?

  78. avatar
    Gordon May 21, 2009 at 11:59 pm #

    I honestly don’t think Obama gives any of this a moments thought.

  79. avatar
    Gordon May 22, 2009 at 12:02 am #

    I think Obama feels he has addressed this and has moved on. He can’t worry about the delicate sensibilities of the bitter and delusional.

  80. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 22, 2009 at 12:13 am #

    Jim, no, it doesn’t. Do a little research into the birth of one of our Presidents, Chester A. Arthur. Check the birth status of his parents before you start believing everything that you hear on a right-wing website. He was President over 100 years ago, his father was known to be at the time a citizen of Ireland and not the United States, and that doesn’t seem to be a problem for anybody electing him.

    There has never been that requirement in the constitution that someone has to be born to two citizens to be considered “Natural-Born”. It’s basically a lawyer making up the law as he’s going on, and citing it as fact.

  81. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 22, 2009 at 12:22 am #

    Nah. It was 2 swallows working together to bring the coconut to England!

    And it’s:

    “What’s the average velocity of the unladen swallow?”

    “African or European?”

    “I don’t know that. Arghhhhhhhhh!”

  82. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 22, 2009 at 12:23 am #

    Um, that wasn’t Obama. That was some commander in Iraq introducing the Secretary of Defense to the troops.

    It was on 60 minutes last week.

  83. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 22, 2009 at 12:29 am #

    1. Barack Obama didn’t actually, as far as I know, call Bob Gates, Bill Gates. That was a military commander in Iraq, as shown on 60 minutes. It’s a little too convienent that the 60 minutes interview comes out (with that quote on it), and now all the Conservatives are claiming Barack Obama did it.

    2. Actually provide some evidence if you want us to take you seriously. No more shifting the burden of proof. Actually prove yourself correct.

  84. avatar
    NBC May 22, 2009 at 1:16 am #

    I believe it is all over the news. Did you check?

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama sees his secretary of defense just about every day, but he still flubbed Robert Gates’ name on Thursday.

    Gates was in the crowd for Obama’s national security speech. Pointing him out, the president said “William Gates” was on hand. Perhaps Obama was thinking of Bill Gates, the Microsoft billionaire.

    Simple research

  85. avatar
    misha May 22, 2009 at 4:58 am #

    I remember the invective leveled at Warren after Brown.

    I benefited from the 1964 Civil Rights Act. These wingers never give up.

  86. avatar
    Black Lion May 22, 2009 at 8:45 am #

    Gordon is correct…Most of the country has accepted that Obama is President. It is the ignorant few like Limbaugh (a man that could not even finish college and was/is additcted to painkillers) that they follow blindly. To say that this man has “more knowledge and heart than Obama” shows the delusional nature of Truth. Limbaugh wants “Obama to fail”, so he wants the US to be attacked and for our economy to tank even further. That sure is the actions of a true “patriot”. These “dittoheads” don’t realize that they are being exploited by a man that gets paid over $40,000,000 a year to spew hatred. Amazing.

  87. avatar
    Black Lion May 22, 2009 at 8:57 am #

    Truth…If I recall the 700 billion stimulus was under your hero Bush’s watch…I love how all of the Obama haters call that out but fail to realize that the TARP was a Republican and Bush spending plan…And as for Obama reading from a Teleprompter…Again a Limbaugh/Hannity talking point. These guys pick on trivial issues to get on Obama because they can’t find any real issues….I would rather a teleprompter than the butchered speeches of GW Bush…

  88. avatar
    ScottKnick May 22, 2009 at 9:16 am #

    Of course it’s a poor PS job. There’s no ambient lighting on the sign at all. It doesn’t even appear to follow the perspective of the “real” billboard.

    I’m sure WND will be placing thousands of these imaginary signs across the nation. Which will rouse an angered public to demand, “What the hell is that sign about?”

  89. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 22, 2009 at 9:53 am #

    It just sounded a little too convinent.

    About a week ago, 60 minutes published an interview with Bob Gates. You can see it here:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/14/60minutes/main5014588.shtml

    One of the lines was: “We flew with him to three U.S. bases in southern Afghanistan. Our access was unprecedented. He usually avoids the spotlight, and he’s so low-key that ‘Bob Gates’ is hardly a household name. At Camp Leatherneck, he was even misintroduced to the troops as ‘Bill Gates.'”

  90. avatar
    Jez May 22, 2009 at 9:54 am #

    TRUTH – Repeating a misconception does not make it real.
    President Obama did not introduce Secretary Gates as “Bill Gates”. That was done in Afghanistan. Read the story.

    If you are so interested in the truth, as your name suggests, I am sure you would like to know when you have incorrect information.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/14/60minutes/main5014588.shtml

  91. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion May 22, 2009 at 10:03 am #

    “The US Constitution requires both parents be US citizens to be able to bestow natual born status on their child.”

    Oh really? Exactly what part of the US Constitution says that? Because I’ve looked over it from end to end and I can’t find anything in the US Constitution that says “A Natural-Born citizen is the offspring of US Citizen parents”.

  92. avatar
    kimba May 22, 2009 at 10:04 am #

    Do we know anyone near Ball, LA who can go look? It would be at the intersection of LA 623 and US 165 south of Ball. Population 3700.
    The whole thing is fishy. The story says the billboard is electronic, then it goes on to describe that it costs $2000 to print each vinyl sign. The pic above is definitely not an electronic sign.
    The whole thing is pretty silly, but I’d love to know if it’s a real sign or a photoshop job.

  93. avatar
    Jez May 22, 2009 at 10:08 am #

    My apologies Truth. Seems I was incorrect. That was the first incident that I heard of. I guess there was another one a couple of days ago.

  94. avatar
    thisoldhippie May 22, 2009 at 12:04 pm #

    I thought it looked like a PS (or BS) job and tried to research it. I’m thinking they created this to “show” their faithful followers what the billboard will look like if they raise enough $$$$

  95. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 22, 2009 at 1:25 pm #

    I personally spoke to the Ball city Police Department and they confirmed that the sign is real. It is an electronic sign (not a vinyl one), which may account for its “unreal” appearance in the photo.

    From the conversation, I inferred that the person I talked to didn’t know what the sign meant.

  96. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 22, 2009 at 1:45 pm #

    The sign is legit. I called the local PD and asked. It’s an electronic sign, which is why it looks odd.

  97. avatar
    thisoldhippie May 22, 2009 at 1:49 pm #

    What a waste of electricity. The money they are collecting for this type of subversive advertising could be spent, oh I don’t know, doing something Christian like feeding the hungry.

  98. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion May 22, 2009 at 3:36 pm #

    Be funny if it bluescreened or something like that.

  99. avatar
    jtx May 22, 2009 at 5:41 pm #

    To dunstvangeet:

    Arthur was never elected as President (he assumed the office on the death of Garfield) but he still should have met the same natural born citizen requirements.

    It was not known at the time of his VP election that his father was not an American citizen … that fact did not come to light until 2008 … and Arthur was careful to NOT make the information available at the time.

    In the case of the present office holder he has stated that he was a Brit at birth. As to that disqualifying him what most reasonable people wish to see is that “run through” our legal system and decided under the laws of the country in a fair manner.

    This man’s actions in resisting making this sort of information (or other related data) available is what is making millions of citiens VERY suspicious about the matter.

    Keep in mind that he has just stated:
    “I will never hide the truth because it is uncomfortable.”. Do you think he’s lying about that???

    I believe, however, that there is ample evidence to show what the NBC clause means (and, if a Brit at birth, he does not qualify). That will all be argued – with evidence – eventually in front of SCOTUS and we’ll see what they decide … and note that I did not say it was defined in the Constitution (it isn’t – like many other things). It’s not worth debating on Dr. C’s blog since it is mostly filled with O-borter lovers. You’d be welcome to appear before SCOTUS and try your tricks there, though, I’m sure.

  100. avatar
    jtx May 22, 2009 at 5:47 pm #

    NBC:

    You see unaware the Wond Kim Ark is a slender reed indeed upon which to base your argument – and you are not quoting from the decision which studiously avoided making such a NBC claim – but merely dicta (chit chat).

    I’m willing to see what actual law tells us when heard on the merits (not tossed around by those of questionable knowledge on blogs like this). Aren’t you??

  101. avatar
    NBC May 22, 2009 at 5:56 pm #

    I believe, however, that there is ample evidence to show what the NBC clause means (and, if a Brit at birth, he does not qualify). That will all be argued – with evidence – eventually in front of SCOTUS and we’ll see what they decide …

    It was already decided by SCOTUS. Natural born is any child born in the US, regardless the nationality of the parents.

    What now?

  102. avatar
    NBC May 22, 2009 at 5:59 pm #

    Not really. The case is quite strong from a historical perspective, the Supreme Court is unlikely to hear the case due to lack of standing. In other words, we have a strong case based on history, legislative as well as judicial.

    Sorry, but these are the facts.

    Keep hoping…

  103. avatar
    jtx May 22, 2009 at 6:02 pm #

    To misha:

    Actually, the issue in fact is that without a valid, legally substantiated original birth certificate, NO ONE (quite possibly including the man himself) can be certain where he was born. If arguendo he was born in HI, that MAY only make him a citizen, but not necessarily a NBC.

    If not born in HI (or another US state) he may not even have been eligible to be a Senator per Constitutional requirements. And even if born in HI he could still end up being an illegal alien under some conditions.

    In fact, his father may not even be Obama the elder at all, but the Communist pornorgrapher/poet Frank Marshall Davie which whom both Barry and his mom’s dad had lots of contact with and both of those guys hated the US.

    None of the above can be factually determined without the starting point of a valid BC (not COLB) and some of his college records, but in the meantime we can ALL have our beliefs.

    So the issue is not really “citizenship” but whether or not he meets Constitutional muster. I for one am not willing to take his word for it but many of the O-borters seem willing to believe him to be completely honest and forthright. I think I’ve detected a lie or two that make me no longer gullible.

    You can make your own decision of course but consider what a monstrous fraud has been perpetrated upon ALL americans if he is not eligible (or for that matter if his daddy was a hard-core Communist).

  104. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 22, 2009 at 6:14 pm #

    jtk, the original birth certificate has never been a problem, in fact, it’s not required by any form of government to prove anything. A COLB can be used to prove to the Federal Government where you were born, and that’s the only thing that matters.

    Every single government accepts what Obama has produced to FactCheck, would be sufficient to prove the place of birth to the Federal Government.

    So, my question is the following: If this document (original, produced by the state) is enough to convince the Federal Government that someone where someone was born, then why do you say that it isn’t enough to prove to the Federal Government where someone was born?

  105. avatar
    NBC May 22, 2009 at 6:28 pm #

    You can make your own decision of course but consider what a monstrous fraud has been perpetrated upon ALL americans if he is not eligible (or for that matter if his daddy was a hard-core Communist).

    Are you seriously suggesting that having a hard core communist father makes one ineligible?

    How un-american, how anti-constitutional. Is that really your position?
    If so, wow

  106. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 22, 2009 at 6:49 pm #

    1. jtk, read the 12th Amendment: “But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.” That means that if Chester A. Arthur was not eligible to be President, he also wasn’t eligible to be Vice President.

    2. Your point of Chester A. Arthur’s father not being known doesn’t contrive with the facts. Dr. Conspiracy actually addressed this issue more than once. It’s really addressed here: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/04/chester-a-arthur-rest-in-peace/

    3. Paragraph 3 is more of the same: “He won’t prove me wrong, so I must be right!”

    4. The Natural-Born Citizen clause doesn’t show that. Read the case of Perkins v. Elg. Marie Elizabeth Elg held the citizenship of both the U.S. and Sweden during her childhood (Born in the U.S., went to Sweeden, and obtained citizenship there). Despite this, she was declared a “Natural Born Citizen” by the court.

  107. avatar
    Cee Cee May 22, 2009 at 7:29 pm #

    The don’t ever address the message to President Obama. So all in all President Obama still doesn’t need to address it.

    Damn just damn.

  108. avatar
    misha May 22, 2009 at 11:45 pm #

    “If arguendo he was born in HI, that MAY only make him a citizen, but not necessarily a NBC… And even if born in HI he could still end up being an illegal alien under some conditions.”

    Specifically, what conditions? How could he have violated the 14th Amendment? Are you a constitutional lawyer?

    “In fact, his father may not even be Obama the elder at all, but the Communist pornorgrapher/poet Frank Marshall Davie”

    I thought you guys had decided his father was really Malcolm X. Make up your minds.

    BTW, are you clinically insane?

  109. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 8:31 am #

    jtx says: “I believe, however, that there is ample evidence to show what the NBC clause means”

    I’m not interested in what you believe, but what your evidence is. So far, you don’t seem to have any.

  110. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 8:44 am #

    The powerful and historically sweeping arguments made by the Wong court cite the same material that would be used should any future court decide specifically on the question of presidential eligibility. Spin language (“slender reed”, “studiously avoided”, “questionable”, and “chit chat”) aside, the substance of the arguments in Wong and on this web site are solid and compelling.

    Whether it’s a legal dictionary, attorney general opinions, Colonial laws, legislation or court decisions, the answer is consistent and inescapable. Those born in the United States (excepting the children of ambassadors) are natural born citizens.

  111. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 8:54 am #

    jtx, continues to share his unsubstantiated beliefs by saying that the birth certificate, supplied by the State of Hawaii, sealed with the State Seal and signed (stamped) by the head of Vital Statistics for the State of Hawaii is not “valid, legally substantiated.” Next jtx will be telling us that black is white and cats are dogs.

    The Supreme Court in Wong decided that folks like Obama are citizens not “MAY only make him a citizen.”

    Are you saying that black communists impregnate white women just by their visiting the family, because your suggestion that Frank Marshall Davis is Obama’s father has nothing else go to on. This, as much as anything, points out how much jtx is in fantasy land. Rather than concluding that Obama’s father is the one married to his mother and named on his birth certificate, he picks the only other black man whose name he knows.

    And in any case, Frank Marshall Davis, was not a “hard core communist”. You don’t know your history. Lots of intellectuals dallied with the communist party in the 1940’s. For more on Davis, check out this article: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/Kaleokualoha/gGxdvX

  112. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 9:11 am #

    When jtx says “questionable knowledge on blogs like this” I wonder if jtx has actually looked at this blog. The comment was added to an inconsequential article about a billboard and not to one of the many substantial articles specifically about birth certificates and natural born citizenship.

    The interplay that makes up the comments on this blog varies from nonsense to well-reasoned and factual. However, the comments by their very nature are ad hoc and not as researched and edited as the main articles.

    If someone wants to know what this blog really says on birth certificates or citizenship, click on the links at the top of the right side bar. What you will find there is carefully documented argument and not “questionable knowledge.”

    On the other hand, if you don’t want facts to get in the way of your beliefs, then don’t read the articles because they will surely depress you. Perhaps I should put up a warning to nObamas: “abandon hope all ye who enter here.”

  113. avatar
    TollandRCR May 23, 2009 at 11:51 am #

    It’s doubtful that President Obama spends a moment thinking about the rants and ravings from Birthers. That is because they are meaningless — until they become calls for secession, armed revolt, or a military coup. Then it’s not President Obama who thinks about that; it is men and women with the authority, power, and legitimacy to bring charges of sedition and treason.

    It seems as if many Birthers oppose one or more of President Obama’s policies. Why are they wasting time on the birth certificate issue when they could, instead, be criticizing those policies? Could it be that they know that they would lose in their attacks on the policies as well?

    The American people have left you so far behind that you cannot even see them, while you are stuck in the echo chamber of conspiracy theories, plots, lies, and deceptions. Losers, losers, losers.

    Bring on the threats of your next ploy, losers. That must be so much fun: doing nothing while proclaiming that victory is just around the corner. Why not try actually participating in the American political system through dialogue? It worked for Ronald Reagan.

  114. avatar
    jtx May 23, 2009 at 1:22 pm #

    No, Dr. C.:

    I have “read this blog” as well as most of the links … and I do not find it convincing at all but merely hot air for the most part with even a good bit of the links off topic.

    Having said that, it’s not something I wish to wast my time and energy “debating” on this (or any other) blog. Instead I wish to see the issue brought before a legally constituted court of law – preferably with a jury – and heard on the merits.

    Whewn that happens (and I believe that it will) we will be able to discern the truth and we may all go back to earning a living – or whatever.

    AFAIC the sooner that happens the better off we’ll all be and that is the reason I find it so peculiar that those struggling to convince themselves that the man is eligible refuse to NOT join with the millions who wish to have the issue correctly determined under the laws of the country.

    I think I know what the man himself is afraid of, but what are the rest of you afraid of? The money he is spending to prevent any information (Not just the BC) from being made public is excessive – probably on the order of $1M and now taxpayer funds are being used, too. I think that’s a lousy use of my money … but perhaps you’d all like to have your taxes higher for that purpose???

  115. avatar
    jtx May 23, 2009 at 1:31 pm #

    NBC:

    I’m not sure just which “the case” you might be talking about since there are many presently still active with more to come.

    You still haven’t explained why you don’t support a proper trial on the merits to settle the eligibility issue. It’d be both historic and interesting and would save the whole country a lot of grief.

    Perhaps you don’t think so, but there are millions of Americans from all different political perspectives that are realizing more and more that there may indeed be a “reason” why $1 million or more is being spent on legal fees opposing the release of any information … and you don’t think that’s a tad odd??? Check some of the lawsuits (they are numerous) for this opposition since it is publicly-availagble knowledge.

  116. avatar
    jtx May 23, 2009 at 1:34 pm #

    NBC:

    No it was never decided by SCOTUS. Neither they nor any other court have ever heard the case on the merits. SCOTUS merely punted to duck out.

    Why don’t you join with millions of others in getting the issue of eligibility decided correctly in a court of law?

  117. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 1:38 pm #

    In other words, lacking any evidence that can be used to argue that Obama is not eligible, I prefer to present the hearsay and innuendo to a jury, in the hope of having a legally elected President removed, in violation of our Constitution.

    I notice once again that your arguments are easily rebutted, and you have made no effort to support your ignorant claims.

    I also notice that you have failed to debunk the simple fact that Obama is a natural born citizen as the evidence strongly suggest that he was born in Honolulu and there exists no evidence to the contrary.

  118. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 1:43 pm #

    I’m not sure just which “the case” you might be talking about since there are many presently still active with more to come.

    At best a handful are still pending, most of them have already been rejected by the legal system and are slowly making their way up the legal ladder to be ultimately rejected. I believe that over 30-40 lawsuits have been rejected, each rejection becoming legal precedent for future lawsuits, making their rejection more and more likely as well.

    You still haven’t explained why you don’t support a proper trial on the merits to settle the eligibility issue.

    Because it lacks in merit, will unnecessarily impair President Obama’s presidency and is anti-Constitutional as it fails to preserve the separation of powers. The Founders were very clear that other than Impeachment through the legislative branch, a sitting President could not be removed.

    I understand that a few people are still upset that they lost the elections and are seeking to overthrow President Obama’s administration at all cost, including the cost of ignoring the Constitution. The fact that there are still a few such lawsuits pending, is of little relevance really, they all suffer from the same problems.

    And in the end we all know that the legal evidence strongly, and overwhelmingly suggest that President Obama was born in Honolulu and thus a natural born citizen per previous judicial rulings.

    Such are the simple facts.

  119. avatar
    jtx May 23, 2009 at 1:46 pm #

    dunstvangeet:

    The issue with Arthur that was raised was that he was born in non-US soil; not that his father was not a citizen … that was not known at the time and was only unearther in 2008.

    Certainly Arthur knew he WAS born in the US so encouraged the furor about that fact, but never let anyone know that his father was not a US citizen at the time of his birth.

    And, yes, I’ve read the material Dr. C. has linked about the matter. The fact that Arthur took pains to destroy his papers after he left the office is, I think, especially telling since no one with an inflated enough ego to run for President or Vice-President would certainly be concerned with having his legacy be as favorable as possible. Arthur chose secrecy for that reason I believe.

    To the present time, Obama has told everyone that his father was a Brit, not a US citizen, nor – as he just recently seemed to imply – was his father an immigrant since he was never took up permanent residence here.

    Of course, that (also) may not be true and no one will ever know until the court action, will they?

  120. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 1:56 pm #

    Because as I have stated, and so has DrC, the vast amount of legal, judicial, historical evidence all support the position that anyone born on US soil is a natural born citizen regardless of the status of the parents.

    The ruling in Wong Kim Ark have clearly established Supreme Court precedents.

    Of course, in order for the case to be heard, other Constitutional barriers need to be overcome and none of the lawsuits so far seems to have been able to achieve standing.

    Wong Kim Ark decided the following

    The question presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution

    Such is the Constitutional protection.

    At the time of his birth…

    In exploring the meaning of citizen, the court observes

    The Constitution of the United States, as originally adopted, uses the words “citizen of the United States,” and “natural-born citizen of the United States.” By the original Constitution, every representative in Congress is required to have been “seven years a citizen of the United States,” and every Senator to have been “nine years a citizen of the United States.” and “no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President.”

    Observing that the Constitution fails to define the meaning of the terms, the court explores the common law history

    The Constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words, either by way of inclusion or of exclusion, except insofar as this is done by the affirmative declaration that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.” In this as in other respects, it must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the Constitution.

    The court takes notice that

    Children, born in England, of such aliens were therefore natural-born subjects. But the children, born within the realm, of foreign ambassadors, or the children of alien enemies, born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the King’s dominions, were not natural-born subjects because not born within the allegiance, the obedience, or the power, or, as would be said at this day, within the jurisdiction, of the King.

    In other word, any child born on the King’s soil is a natural born citizen, except when the parents are foreign ambassadors, or the father is an invading military. By virtue of being born subject to the laws of the King, the child is born under allegiance of the King.

    The court could not have stated it more clearly

    “Natural-born British subject” means a British subject who has become a British subject at the moment of his birth.” “Subject to the exceptions hereinafter mentioned, any person who (whatever the nationality of his parents) is born within the British dominions is a natural-born British subject. This rule contains the leading principle of English law on the subject of British nationality.

    And thus concludes

    The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: the Fourteenth Amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. The Amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born, within the territory of the United States, of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States. Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States. His allegiance to the United States is direct and immediate, and, although but local and temporary, continuing only so long as he remains within our territory, is yet, in the words of Lord Coke in Calvin’s Case, 7 Rep. 6a, “strong enough to make a natural subject, for if he hath issue here, that issue is a natural-born subject;” and his child, as said by Mr. Binney in his essay before quoted, “if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle.”

    What now?

  121. avatar
    kimba May 23, 2009 at 1:56 pm #

    There will never be a court action. Obama IS legally the President. The only way to remove a sitting President is by Impeachment by a majority of the House and Conviction by 2/3 of the Senate. Why don’t you and your “millions” work on that? Another way to remove him is to run a candidate against him in 2012 who can get more votes. And then when all that fails, on Jan 20, 2017, he’ll be ineligible under the 22nd amendment. Imagine, eventually you folks will be able to say he’s ineligible and be correct!

  122. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 2:00 pm #

    To the present time, Obama has told everyone that his father was a Brit, not a US citizen, nor – as he just recently seemed to imply – was his father an immigrant since he was never took up permanent residence here.

    And this was known during the election cycle and yet the people, the electoral college and the Congress did not object to his eligibility. Of course, since Obama was born on US soil, the status of his father had no impact on the natural born status of the child.

    Such is the conclusion of law.

    Given these facts, the lack of standing, the lack of evidence, and the lack of legal and judicial support all lead to the simple conclusion…

    What now?

  123. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 2:04 pm #

    More legal precedent

    Lynch v. Clarke, 1 Sandf. Ch. 584,

    “Upon principle, therefore, I can entertain no doubt but that, by the law of the United States, every person born within the dominion and allegiance of the United States, whatever were the situation of his parents, is a natural-born citizen

    McKay v. Campbell, 2 Sawy. 118, it is said:

    “By the common law a child born within the allegiance of the United States is born a subject thereof, without reference to the political status or condition of its parents.”

    In 2 Kent, Cornm. (9th Ed.,) it is said that

    “natives are all persons bom within the jurisdiction and allegiance of the United States.” To the text is subjoined the following note:

    “This is the rule of the common law, without any regard or reference to the political condition or allegiance of their parents, with tho exception of the children of embassadors, who are in theory born within the allegiance of the foreign power they represent” Calvin’s Case, 7 Coke, 1; Lynch v. Clarke, 1 Sandf. Ch. 584, 639.

  124. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 2:18 pm #

    but perhaps you’d all like to have your taxes higher for that purpose???

    To defend the Constitution? Sure. No taxes too high really.
    Of course, I’d rather prefer my taxes being used to improve healthcare in this country, as well as the middle class. Then again, what is 1 million really… (Assuming that this is the cost. The defendants in California have so far filed only court costs and show no entry for attorney fees in their filings against Keyes and Orly.)
    So perhaps, the 1 million dollars went to other costs for Obama’s Campaign and not to these lawsuits after all?…

    In the end it does not matter, President Obama has the Constitutional right to defend himself against these meritless lawsuits. Imagine the precedent by giving in to these lawsuits… The damages to law and the Constitution would be immense, potentially undermining any future President by allowing anyone to file lawsuits for discovery. Which is why the Congress was so clear that for instance Quo Warranto against an elected president was counter to the Constitution.

  125. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 2:34 pm #

    Error Detection Algorithms show no evidence of manipulation

  126. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 2:47 pm #

    jtx: “Having said that, it’s not something I wish to wast my time and energy “debating” on this (or any other) blog.”

    Well if you had no intention of offering debate or rational rgument, why have you been wasting our time with your insults and unsupported assertions?

    Talk about “hot air”!

  127. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 2:48 pm #

    Did you just make up that $1M number, or did someone else make it up for you?

  128. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 2:54 pm #

    jtx: I have shown from contemporary newspaper clippings (that said Arthur was a “born Irishman”) and from the correspondence of his opponents, that the fact that Arthur’s father was not a naturalized citizen was known. I have also shown that the Supreme Court of New York (Arthur was from New York) said that it was the universal public opinion that those born in the United States are natural born citizens without regard for the status of their parents.

    In the case of contemporary Obama, there is no question that the facts of his parentage were widely known, and no one in the Congress, the Court or the state secretaries of state seemed to have any thought that this was an issue.

    Of course, jtx in monumental arrogance claims to know more than all of them. Phooey!

  129. avatar
    HistorianDude May 23, 2009 at 2:58 pm #

    As of day 4, Farah boasts of $40,000 in donations, at an average donation size of $25. If these numbers are correct, the total number of donations to this point is an underwhelming 1,600.

    The elephant hath labored mightily and delivered unto us… a mouse.

  130. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 2:58 pm #

    If every nut case conspiracy theorist could drag the president around in court, it would be a total mess. Good thing the courts are required to dismiss lawsuits where they lack jurisdiction, where the plaintiffs lack standing, and where the question is political and not judicial.

  131. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 5:03 pm #

    Seems that Gates is relatively unknown and the confusions with Bill or William are relatively common.

    Of course, nothing of real substance here.

  132. avatar
    jtx May 23, 2009 at 5:50 pm #

    NBC:

    You seem to have missed the fact that I’m not interested in this form of “debate” dince it is not that at all and means nothing until it has the force of law behind it. I have a substantial set of links on all sides of the eligibility issue but still wish to see SCOTUS define the NBC term and rule on the eligibility.

    Here’s a link you may have missed:

    http://federalistblog.us/2008/11/natural-born_citizen_defined.html

    I see nothing wrong for a legal determination on the matter … do you??? And don’t give me the guff about “… he’s already shown himself to be eligible …”, etc. There has been no such definitive determination notwithstanding the many hours that you, Dr. C. and others have devoted to claiming there is no issue.

    Clearly there IS an issue and for the good of the country it needs to be formally and properly resolved. This man will never go down in history with this issue hanging over his legacy and I would think that all the O-borter fans here and Obama himself would recognize that. It will not be kept hidden forever; better to clarify it now. If he’s found (formally and legally with appropriate evidence in a court of law) to be eligible – fine! If not, it’s better to determine that now before his ineligibility wrecks the country since many of his actions would be invalid.

    The fact that he publicly stated his father was a Brit is not the issue since no one picked up on that fact (except Leo Donofrio) soon enough but there were several suits in front of SCOTUS pointing this out but the court chose not to hear them on merit. Are you claiming that since “no one” (your words, basically) noticed it’s OK that he may not be eligible??? And please don’t quote inapplicable cases/courts who don’t get to interpret the Constitution. Itr seems as though you are saying a fraud is just fine so long as it isn’t recognized soon enough. Are you sure that’s what you really mean??

  133. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 6:01 pm #

    Clearly there IS an issue and for the good of the country it needs to be formally and properly resolved. This man will never go down in history with this issue hanging over his legacy and I would think that all the O-borter fans here and Obama himself would recognize that.

    First of all, as I have outlined, there is no issue, which is also why courts refuse to grant discovery to plaintiffs. Second of all, your ‘fears’ that Obama will ‘never go down in history with this issue over his legacy’, seems to be rather more wishful thinking than actual. In fact, I doubt that the issue will have much of any effect on the legacy of President Obama.

    It will not be kept hidden forever; better to clarify it now. If he’s found (formally and legally with appropriate evidence in a court of law) to be eligible – fine! If not, it’s better to determine that now before his ineligibility wrecks the country since many of his actions would be invalid.

    Again, you are incorrect. The actions of a de facto President would still be valid.

    The fact that he publicly stated his father was a Brit is not the issue since no one picked up on that fact (except Leo Donofrio) soon enough but there were several suits in front of SCOTUS pointing this out but the court chose not to hear them on merit. Are you claiming that since “no one” (your words, basically) noticed it’s OK that he may not be eligible??? And please don’t quote inapplicable cases/courts who don’t get to interpret the Constitution.

    Of course not. I am saying that people were well aware of the issues and realized that all that matters is the location of birth. As such Obama clearly meets the requirements.

    As to ‘inapplicable court rulings’, you seem to forget that these cases provide, combined with the Supreme Court’s own rulings evidence how natural born should be interpreted.

    Itr seems as though you are saying a fraud is just fine so long as it isn’t recognized soon enough. Are you sure that’s what you really mean??

    Have you stopped beating your spouse?

  134. avatar
    jtx May 23, 2009 at 6:08 pm #

    Dr. C.:

    “monumental arrogance”, indeed!! The pot calls the kettle black. The presentations you make are heresay and the NU SC opinion, unfortunately for them, does not get to interpret the U. S. Constitution.

    That’s the job of SCOTUS and that’s where this issue will certainly end up. It will satisfy me completely to have a SCOTUS ruling of the meaning of “natural born citizen” as used in the US Constitution and a ruling on the current occupant of the office as to his eligibility.

    In the meantime, please stop your red herrings and straw men. They are a waste of time. Please join with millions of other Americans to have this issue formally decided since if eligible it will help the man’s legacy and if not then the sooner that is determined the better.

    It will not remain hidden as at present.

  135. avatar
    aarrgghh May 23, 2009 at 6:29 pm #

    “It will satisfy me completely to have a SCOTUS ruling of the meaning of “natural born citizen” as used in the US Constitution and a ruling on the current occupant of the office as to his eligibility.”

    toss another goal post on the fire, jethro! it’s getting damn cold out here in these woods …

  136. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 23, 2009 at 7:12 pm #

    He hasn’t proved that he’s stopped beating his spouse, NBC, so he must not have.

  137. avatar
    kimba May 23, 2009 at 7:13 pm #

    But, But, jtx insists there’s “millions, millions I tell you”.

    $40,000 so far and only one (free) billboard up in BF Lousiana. The best part is going to be the splaining why there aren’t billboards up anywhere else. “Oh, it takes 2 weeks to print the vinyl and we’re negotiating in BIG cities right now! These things must be done delicately…” how many weeks from now will there still be only one billboard and these fools will never challenge Farah as to where their money went.

  138. avatar
    misha May 23, 2009 at 7:45 pm #

    “Have you stopped beating your spouse?”

    Bada bing!

    “the total number of donations to this point is an underwhelming 1,600”

    Quite apart from “millions.”

    “these fools will never challenge Farah as to where their money went”

    It’s a racket. They’re so blinded by hatred, it’s affected their judgement. Barnum would be laughing. Remember Mencken: No one ever went broke underestimating the public’s taste.

    These birthers should just be ignored. They make a lot of noise disproportionate to their numbers. Millions turns out to be around 1,600. That’s not even 1% of the population.

    As I wrote before, they just can’t stand that a black family is in the White House. The same crowd is starting on Jindal: He’s not natural born, because his parents were here on student visas.

    Yeah, and I was born on Mars. Know why they call it the Red planet? ‘Cause it’s communist.

  139. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 7:57 pm #

    You seem to have missed the fact that I’m not interested in this form of “debate” dince it is not that at all and means nothing until it has the force of law behind it.

    And there is no reason that the debate requires the ‘force of law’ behind it because the Courts so far have unanimously decided that the plaintiffs lack standing.

    Bummer

  140. avatar
    NBC May 23, 2009 at 8:01 pm #

    In the meantime, please stop your red herrings and straw men. They are a waste of time. Please join with millions of other Americans to have this issue formally decided since if eligible it will help the man’s legacy and if not then the sooner that is determined the better.

    Translation: Since I have nothing to show that Obama is not a natural born citizen and since Dr C has shown how legislative, judicial history and the opinion of many well informed people all support that someone born on US soil is a “natural born citizen” regardless of the status of the parents, I am not interested in a real debate since I cannot possibly win. However, I may be able to disrupt the Presidency of someone with whose policies I disagree by expecting him to provide further evidence that he is natural born, even though he has presented such evidence.
    All because a few ‘Americans’ claim to doubt his eligibility.

    Fascinating.
    And of course it will not remain hidden since at present it is not even hidden.
    But that requires one to look at the facts of the case, and you seem to be far less interested in the facts than you are in hypotheticals. Thank God, the Constitution protects us here.

  141. avatar
    kimba May 23, 2009 at 8:09 pm #

    If the Republican Party decides Jindal is a good President or VP candidate, they will grow a pair and explain that, yes, Jindal is eligible, to these fools. Once corrected, said fools will claim they never had a doubt about Jindal and never said a thing about both parents having to be citizens. Or they’ll stay home and not vote because their heads will be so f’ed up that their choice is between a black man and a brown man.
    It is sad what they are missing because the Obama family is as American as Apple pie. Barack is a soccer dad!

    1% of the population would be 3 million. But 1600 is a little less than 1/2 the population of Ball, LA!

  142. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 23, 2009 at 9:53 pm #

    Why don’t you join with millions of others in getting the issue of eligibility decided correctly in a court of law?

    For one thing, that would be unconstitutional. The Constitution clearly gives Congress the ultimate authority to determine the issue of presidential qualifications, following determination through the electoral process.

  143. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 10:08 pm #

    I see you’ve trotted out P. A. Madison. I know his paper, although there was not a link to it here that I know of. I have amended that.

    P. A. Madison puts forth a few citations from legislators, none of which carries authority, and fails to address the bulk of the material on the other side from law and court decisions. It’s fairly easy to make an argument if you just pick evidence from one side and I can see how someone could fall for Madison’s argument if they trusted him to be giving a fair summary of the evidence, which he most definitely is not.

    Madison’s very first sentence is contradicted by Smith v. Alabama. Probably the most comprehensive refutation available (apart from US v. Wong Kim Ark), which points out pretty well the fallacy in the argument, is the Supreme Court of NY decision in Lynch v. Clarke. P. A. Madison also fails to reckon with the testimony of his namesake, President James Madison, considered to be the Father of the Constitution, who said:

    It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/05/james-madison-on-birth-and-allegiance/

    You won’t find anyone who was a founder of this country on the other side.

    Just as the claims that Chester A. Arthur was born in Canada warrant a short paragraph in a 500 page biography of Arthur, the conspiracy theories about Barack Obama will likely be all but lost 100 years from now.

  144. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2009 at 10:38 pm #

    I found that the Wikipedia had been changed to say that Jindal’s parents became citizens during the year between their arrival and his birth. Of course no immigrant can be come a citizen of the US without 5 years residence. I fixed the Wikipedia.

  145. avatar
    NBC May 24, 2009 at 2:27 am #

    Always ready to defend the truth. Great job Dr C.

  146. avatar
    thisoldhippie May 24, 2009 at 7:55 am #

    So, I wonder how many more “unauthorized” biographies of Jindal will begin to make this claim. It’s scary how these people will manipulate the truth to reach their end.

  147. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 24, 2009 at 8:20 am #

    I don’t think Jindal has a chance, but if is considering a run, he would be foolish to let people put out false and easily disproved information about his parents’ citizenship — certainly his primary opponents would be aware of the true facts.

  148. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 24, 2009 at 8:47 am #

    The crisis is not judicial. It can only be resolved through remedial Civics education.

  149. avatar
    kimba May 24, 2009 at 8:49 am #

    My thinking was that there will be no Democratic primaries in 2012 because Obama will run for re-election unchallenged in his party unless something unforeseen happens. We won’t see his name on a ballot until the general election. But it’s possible if Jindal decides to run we will see his name on primary ballots in late 2011. Then Republicans will have to correct the “both parents have to be citizens” made-up rule long before anyone revives the question about Obama. Even the Republican Party still has some grown ups that won’t allow that kind of stupidity to dictate who the candidates are. I think Jindal would correct false stories about his parents. He’s proud of his heritage just like Obama. He and the Repubs know he’s eligible and I think it would be delicious for the Republicans to be the ones to have to straighten out their little pocket of birther craziness. He may not have a chance, but this is the reason I hope he runs.

  150. avatar
    bogus info May 24, 2009 at 9:02 am #

    Did you guys see where Orly got a letter from Suter? Too funny.

  151. avatar
    TRUTH May 24, 2009 at 10:18 am #

    WOW! has anyone ever heard of someone so conceited they think their candidate should/will run unchallenged within their own party? THAT is the very proof of the many that think this Man is like some Messiah. How many of your are onboard with the way kimba is thinking and already feel Obama should be the only Dem. that runs in 2012?

  152. avatar
    kimba May 24, 2009 at 10:49 am #

    Bush faced no major challengers in 2003-04. Conveniently forget? The only place he didn’t win more than 95% of the primary vote was Oklahoma where Bill Wyatt won 10%. Do you even know who Bill Wyatt is? Obama is a wildly popular President. Suck it up. Like Jon Stewart said, ” you’re the minority now, it’s supposed to taste like a sh!t taco.” Crawl back in your hole Obama denier.

  153. avatar
    TRUTH May 24, 2009 at 11:24 am #

    Actually I tend to think your correct. Well, it will be one of two things. Either Obama unveils his true intentions to early of his idiotic ideas, and his many followers realize they had the wool pulled over their faces, OR he’ll fly under the radar for 4 years with his infamous rhetoric and the same 60 million voters that are ashamed to admit they screwed up will do it again. So yes, there is that chance of him being hardly challenged.
    And your damn right Im an Obama denier. I don’t like it when someone is taking our country down the road of destruction. At least I have the foresight to see it.

  154. avatar
    Kevin Bellas May 24, 2009 at 11:37 am #

    Truth,

    Did your senses warn you about GWB?

  155. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 24, 2009 at 12:00 pm #

    She really should hire a lawyer because she’s clearly playing beyond her competence.

  156. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion May 24, 2009 at 12:45 pm #

    Well, she’s having her cavity creeps do her research, which is bad enough.

  157. avatar
    NBC May 24, 2009 at 1:02 pm #

    And your damn right Im an Obama denier. I don’t like it when someone is taking our country down the road of destruction. At least I have the foresight to see it.

    I believe the term ‘foresight’ does not quite accurately describe your dislike of Obama and his policies.

    Or were you talking about Bush?

  158. avatar
    NBC May 24, 2009 at 1:08 pm #

    That is surely quite clear.
    It’s almost painful to see her ‘thought’ processes on the blog…
    My prediction is that she will re-submit and Suter will reject it.
    But they will give her all the opportunity to make her case… Oh the pressure.

  159. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion May 24, 2009 at 1:09 pm #

    “Having said that, it’s not something I wish to wast my time and energy “debating” on this (or any other) blog. Instead I wish to see the issue brought before a legally constituted court of law – preferably with a jury – and heard on the merits.”

    Translation – My mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts.

  160. avatar
    NBC May 24, 2009 at 1:17 pm #

    Exactly… How after all does one defend the indefensible. The goal is not to win but rather to distract and disrupt.

    Ain’t gonna work, not without at least some legal foundation and evidence.

  161. avatar
    NBC May 24, 2009 at 2:51 pm #

    I’d say that the US rules for subpoenas of foreign entities, combined with the FSIA statement about immunities will make the success of a suit which only indirectly involves ambassadors and where no law guides the release of information will make any chances of success close to non-existent. Even if the USC accepts the pleadings, there is no chance of success.

  162. avatar
    Mark May 24, 2009 at 4:24 pm #

    There are other hucksters with the illegal to travel to Pakistan in 1981 scam.

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter159.htm

    It is almost funny that the Bible-Thumper sites are the most dishonest.

    Don’t waste your time asking the source of their lies. Been there, done that.

    But the Thumpers always want donations…

  163. avatar
    Gordon May 24, 2009 at 4:51 pm #

    “The fact that he publicly stated his father was a Brit is not the issue since no one picked up on that fact (except Leo Donofrio) soon enough”,

    I have never heard a more naive comment from a birther. Obama was a rising star in 2004, wrote two best selling books about his life, and you think the great legal mind as Donifrio is the first person to pick up on that fact. Never mind Obama was running for President almost two years before the election. Are you really under the impression that the multi million dollar campaign of HRC did not know his father was not a citizen. They did not publicly explore this because they knew it had no legal traction.

  164. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 24, 2009 at 5:33 pm #

    jtx: “The fact that he publicly stated his father was a Brit is not the issue since no one picked up on that fact (except Leo Donofrio) soon enough but there were several suits in front of SCOTUS pointing this out but the court chose not to hear them on merit.”

    Not only publicly stated, but put it on his web site. The early lawsuits were all about the “born in Kenya” myth. There’s not a word from lawyer Philip J. Berg in Berg v. Obama, and to this day Berg says there is no “two citizen parent” requirement.

    It wasn’t that Donofrio recognized the implications of Obama’s parentage, it was that Donofrio recognized that he could promote the novel theory that citizen parents were required. Before Donfrio, I do not know of anyone who made the claim that citizen parents were required of a president. I know of plenty that said the opposite.

    I continue to be amazed at the false memories exhibited by the nObamas who remember their high school civics class discussing the citizen parent requirement, and who believe “everybody knew about it” when in fact you cannot find a word in any Civics text book that says this, nor contemporary evidence of such a belief discussed before June, 2008

  165. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 24, 2009 at 6:57 pm #

    I continue to be amazed at the false memories exhibited by the nObamas

    It’s called “confabulation” — see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation

  166. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 24, 2009 at 7:10 pm #

    Kimba, Obama won’t face major opposition in the primaries in 2012, but that doesn’t mean that there won’t be primaries. It just means that he will run essentially unopposed and in theory won’t spend money on them. (In practice, if he stays true to his community organizing sensibilities, he will recognize the value of rallying his base in 50 states well before the election – he won in part because the highly contested primaries of 2008 gave him the opportunity to create strong grassroots organizations in virtually every state.).

    He will have some ‘fringe’ opposition — I would predict coming from the left, especially if we are still at war in Afghanistan. (If we are still in Iraq… all bets are off). But it won’t amount to much. In states that allow crossover primary voting, there will be a lot of dems & independents voting in the Republican party, which probably will hurt the chances of any far-right candidates who choose to run. They’ll get the 2012 equivalent of Bob Dole.

  167. avatar
    Shreiking wombat May 24, 2009 at 7:15 pm #

    It’s hilarious. It’s legalese for “explain to us again why we should hear your pathetic stinkin’ case.”

  168. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion May 24, 2009 at 7:49 pm #

    Lynn Stuter is a long-time birther. And yes it’s funny how many fundamentalists seem to ignore that whole part about not bearing false witnesses……..

  169. avatar
    TollandRCR May 24, 2009 at 8:02 pm #

    Lying for god is OK, sometimes even a virtue. After all, god lies, even to his prophets. Not that atheists are the final authority on what god likes and dislikes, but this is a pretty interesting article:
    http://freethought.mbdojo.com/lyingforgod.html

    We’re having a nice thunderstorm in New England. No strikes here ye…

  170. avatar
    Gordon May 24, 2009 at 10:23 pm #

    I was on Team Sarah today, the birthers over there have this same sign up in conjunction with H.R bill 985, Federal Whistle Blowers Act. Some how they’ve got it under their tinfoil hats that the bill is a stealth bill to keep Obama from having to disclose information, like his B.C. I was trying to explain that the bill relates to contract Federal employees, not elected officials. I’m sure I’ll be banned tomorrow.

  171. avatar
    Shreiking wombat May 24, 2009 at 11:43 pm #

    You should wear your prospective banning from Team Sara with pride.

  172. avatar
    kupuna May 25, 2009 at 1:59 am #

    Sorry to interrupt the discussion on broader issues here but I want to comment on how WND plans to make Honolulu an early target for their billboards. As usual, the pseudo-journalists at WND don’t spend a nanosecond on research. Won’t they be surprised when they learn that sign sizes & locations have been tightly regulated since the Territorial days, & those huge billboards are illegal? Read more here about our Outdoor Circle & their work since 1912 to protect the beauty of our islands
    http://www.outdoorcircle.org/education/sign-ordinances
    When WND learns this, I predict we’ll next see an outraged article about how “Lingle Mandates Emergency Law Blocking Billboards” or some similar BS.

    I love how Martin & the Birthers all think Lingle is just “in on it too.” Her constituents here remain PO’d about her conduct re the election, off campaigning in the Mainland for McCain but snubbing Obama’s first Governors’ meeting. Even the local GOP is angry that she didn’t stay here to help the handful of lonely souls on the “R” ballot here. Good thing this is her second term. She’ll probably move back to the Mainland when it ends, hoping for a job on Faux News.

  173. avatar
    kupuna May 25, 2009 at 2:17 am #

    And now I’ll go off topic but since I’m here, I need to point out how Berg is a total hypocrit, again. I’ll give Kudos for obamacrimes posting those moving pics of Veterans’ Cemeteries. You’ll note though, that he left out the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific called Punchbowl, in Honolulu. The resting place of so many who died on that “Day of Infamy” at Pearl Harbor. Inconveniently, for Berg, Punchbowl is also the resting place of Stanley Dunham, the grandfather of our President. Let us all say a prayer tomorrow for all ofour veterans.

  174. avatar
    SvenMagnussen May 25, 2009 at 6:35 am #

    Soetoro must have been on Advance Parole in 1981 …

    The differences between Advance Parole and Re-entry Permit are:

    Advance Parole is issued to a foreign national who does not have permanent resident status. A Re-entry Permit is issued to a permanent resident of the U.S.

    On the appearance, an Advance Parole document is a piece of paper with the foreign national’s photograph whereas a Re-entry Permit looks like a passport

    Advance Parole is like a visa to the U.S. while a Re-entry Permit is like a passport

    Advance Parole is valid for one year whereas a Re-entry Permit is valid for two years

  175. avatar
    myson May 25, 2009 at 8:30 am #

    Any evidence leading to this possibility ? or is it just a guess or hoping ?

  176. avatar
    Gordon May 25, 2009 at 9:14 am #

    Sven doesn’t need any evidence, he has a book called “Pure Conjecture”.

  177. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 25, 2009 at 9:44 am #

    You want the impossible: you’re asking a birfer for evidence. Meanwhile, Orly has been asking her minions whether they know anything about Obama visiting Russia in 2005 and being “marooned for a couple of hours in customs because of some passport issues”. Good grief, it took me a few minutes to google the truth:
    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-64153.html
    I even found a picture by Kommersant of the happy ending:
    http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.aspx?PicsID=276485&stpid=63 It seems Lugar could appreciate the 3 hour delay better than Obama. Yes, I needed some knowledge of Russian to find the picture – but surely Orly still has a good command of it? Oh, and how does Sven explain that you can land in Russia on your way to Ukraine from the US without a proper passport? Surely, the CIA would not like anyone in Russia to know that a US senator who is a member of a Foreign relations Committee is not even a US citizen? Interesting how la Orly will spin herself out of that one.

  178. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 25, 2009 at 11:05 am #

    Rough translation (ala Google with a touch of Babelfish):

    Moscow hopes that a new U.S. president Barack Obama (center), remembers the hospitality that he and his colleague, Senator Richard Lugar (left) had in Russia (photo: Gentlemen Obama and Lugar while away time in the Permian airport in 2005)

    Note: a straight Google search translation doesn’t work – Google translates коротают as “cheat”, but Bablefish translates that word as meaning “they while away” — but Bablefish generally garbles the rest, translating ‘арак Обама as “the barracks Of [obama].”

  179. avatar
    HistorianDude May 25, 2009 at 12:08 pm #

    Speaking as a vet… I gotta tell you, I am offended by Berg’s cynical use of Memorial Day to push his less than honorable agenda. And I don’t offend easily.

  180. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 1:04 pm #

    Soetoro must have been on Advance Parole in 1981 …

    Still making up facts without supporting evidence.

    What a crock.

  181. avatar
    SvenMagnussen May 25, 2009 at 1:08 pm #

    Soetoro was abandoned by his mother in Indonesia, so he went to live with his grandmother in Hawaii. As a citizen of Indonesia, that makes him a refugee with status.

    This would explain the assertion by Soetoro that a detailed examination of his birth records would lead to embarrassment, not to mention his ineligibility to be President.

  182. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 1:12 pm #

    Soetoro was abandoned by his mother in Indonesia, so he went to live with his grandmother in Hawaii. As a citizen of Indonesia, that makes him a refugee with status.

    You seem to have no problems with making up facts, don’t you?

    Lacking any evidence, your speculations will have to, as usual, be rejected, as fanciful imaginations.

  183. avatar
    SvenMagnussen May 25, 2009 at 1:15 pm #

    Tell me, NBC, how does a minor obtain a US Passport without both parents presenting and swearing an oath before an US Government Official?

  184. avatar
    TollandRCR May 25, 2009 at 1:18 pm #

    These photographs are all copied from the Web site of the American Battle Monuments Commission.
    http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries.php

    It is a shame that this accessible collection is on Berg’s Web site, although he seems to have violated no copyright laws. (He did fail to provide the requested citation: “We welcome links to this American Battle Monuments Commission (ABMC) web site. Unless a copyright is indicated information on this ABMC web site is in the public domain and may be copied and distributed without permission. Citation of the ABMC as source of the information is appreciated.”) The pictures are shown by individual cemetery on the ABMC Web site, with explanatory notes such as history and directions. The impact is greater when they are all on one page.

    Anyone interested in posting this collection on a site that would not reek of Berg’s hatred of President Obama?

  185. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 1:27 pm #

    Through a birth certificate combined with the court decision about Dunham’s divorce which granted her custody and control over Obama Jr.

    What did you think?

  186. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 1:31 pm #

    PS: Have you even spent the necessary effort on looking at the regulations, such as DS-11, in case of a single custodian?

    Geez, no wonder you come to such fanciful, and unsupported conclusions.
    Before you try imagination, try doing some research to lay a foundation for your claims.

    PS: How can a minor lose his natural born citizenship of the US?

  187. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 1:52 pm #

    Berg is getting desperate. No progress, only set-backs and his financial situation is not getting better either.

    Bummer…

  188. avatar
    Gordon May 25, 2009 at 2:02 pm #

    Your desperation is pathetic. You just made that up about Obama’s mother. You have no shame at all when trying to tie together your sad little narrative.

  189. avatar
    Gordon May 25, 2009 at 2:03 pm #

    I got my oldest son a passport without his mom. It’s not an issue.

  190. avatar
    Gordon May 25, 2009 at 2:09 pm #

    He does plenty of research, only it comes from Right Wing tinfoil land. Sven has no use for research from reputable sources.

  191. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 25, 2009 at 2:46 pm #

    Read Perkins v. Elg. A minor cannot give up a claim to U.S. Citizenship, SvenMagnussen, no matter what his parents do. Whether or not he was a Indonesian citizen or not has no bearing on anything. He was born a citizen of the United States, and therefore retained his citizenship until he was of an age to renounce it for another citizenship.

    Saying that he was an Indoneasian Citizen is roughly akin to saying, “A banana is a fruit, and therefore, I will be able to land the plane on time.”

  192. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 3:04 pm #

    Well done, at least some seem to be able to do the research necessary.
    And then we have those who make up stories without ANY evidence.
    No wonder, the courts refuse to hear such nonsense. And even if they would get past the standing issue, the case would be summarily dismissed.

  193. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 25, 2009 at 3:11 pm #

    I know, NBC. Their big evidence is Obama’s grandmother saying that she was present when Obama was born. I could get that tape dismissed without any legal training. It’s a rule of evidence called Hearsay.

    Most of their other arguments are along the line of, “I won’t believe any of the evidence disproving my theory, so my theory must be true!”

  194. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 3:19 pm #

    It was a recorded message in possible violation of US law, in which an unknown person claiming to be Obama’s grandmother was asked questions in English, translated into Luo and translated back where the questions were ambiguous and the interpretation strongly objected to.
    Indeed, the phone call stands no chance in court and in fact there is NO evidence supporting the assertions by those who want to have a President removed from office via un-constitutional procedures.

  195. avatar
    kimba May 25, 2009 at 3:30 pm #

    This took me 4 seconds to google:

    http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/minors/minors_834.html

    Step 5: Provide Parental Consent.
    See rules for One Parent with sole legal custody.

    Typical birther, you read something somewhere, believe it completely and are too lazy to type “how to get a passport for a minor” into google and verify for yourself. So much more comforting to take the word of people who aim to deceive you because it’s what you want to hear. These people are counting on you not doing any verifying of your own. Just push paypal

  196. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 25, 2009 at 3:34 pm #

    How would examination of Obama’s birth information shed any light on his return to the United States from Indonesia 10 years later?

    And exactly when did President Obama assert that : “a detailed examination of his birth records would lead to embarrassment, not to mention his ineligibility to be President”? In your dreams?

  197. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 25, 2009 at 3:35 pm #

    That’s absurd.

  198. avatar
    thisoldhippie May 25, 2009 at 4:12 pm #

    Seems to me this bill just proves that Obama is a natural born citizen and should end the discussion.

    http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=64551&catid=175

  199. avatar
    jtx May 25, 2009 at 6:41 pm #

    NBC:

    Don’t fret, my friend … it will all come out in the courts where we can ALL determine the truth of the matter.

    In the meantime why not save your breath since none of the stuff on this site has any evidentialy merit for court purposes.

  200. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 25, 2009 at 6:43 pm #

    I’d say the bill was unconstitutional, but a nice juicy court case along the lines of US v. Wong Kim Ark would be entertaining.

  201. avatar
    jtx May 25, 2009 at 6:44 pm #

    I think that such a comment came from a member of his legal minions trying to keep all of his records out of the hands of the public. He may not be foolish enough to make such a statement (but he’s said some other very foolish statements so who knows?).

    I thought you were the great researcher, Doc.

  202. avatar
    jtx May 25, 2009 at 6:55 pm #

    You’re presuming that “the minor” actually HAD a natural born citizenship (Constitutional definition). That certainly assumes facts not in evidence and many people (millions in fact) thing that there was no such nbc, NBC.

    Why don’t we all just stop wastime time and effort and have this properly settled in court. That would clear the decks for the ascendency to heaven of the O-borter which we could all get to witness. Such a hearing would either endorse his legacy for all time or help him be treated to the tender mercies of the law to the full extent possible.

    OK by me either way. Why don’t you assist in the effort???

  203. avatar
    kimba May 25, 2009 at 6:55 pm #

    This will never be in any court. It’s not just that you have no facts or evidence that would be admissible in court. No individual could show they have been harmed and no court could deliver the remedy you seek. The decision in the Keyes case generously instructed the proper avenue to pursue: the 12th amendment and the Congress. But by all means, keep flopping around in your death throes with billboards, and presentments and Orly suits. The entertainment value is superb.

  204. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 25, 2009 at 7:03 pm #

    Hmmm.

    Of course the web site only has copies of documents, and so is not itself evidence. The citations from history, legislation and law here would of course be the material a court would use in deciding that citizen parents are not required of a US president. The paper COLB is prima facie evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, and in fact all the evidence necessary to prove the case in court (without some powerful refutation from the other side, none of which exists).

    Why don’t you save your breath, since you have no evidence of your own.

  205. avatar
    thisoldhippie May 25, 2009 at 7:41 pm #

    I agree that the bill is unconstitutional – but considering they are trying to change the requirements for being a natural born citizen, just verifies that President Obama is a natural born citizen.

  206. avatar
    SvenMagnussen May 25, 2009 at 7:57 pm #

    Any mother who sends her child to live with another person, even the grandmother, has abandoned that child. I’m not making anything up. That’s a fact.

    Stanley Ann probably had a reason for abandoning Barry and I can only speculate because Obama refuses to release his complete birth record and passport data.

    I noticed you ignored the question about a divorced mother being incapable of obtaining a passport for her minor child without the permission of the birth father, even if the birth father has abandoned the child.

    Consequently, the only way Stanley Ann could take Barry with her to live with Lolo Soetoro in Indonesia would be for Lolo to adopt or acknowledge Barry has his son and obtain travel docs in that method.

    The problem occurred when Stanley Ann’s marriage to Lolo began to deteriorate. Barry didn’t have a US passport. So, it’s likely Stanley Ann had Barry reported as abandoned in Indonesia. Barry’s grandmother went to the US Embassy and filed for custody. Barry was identified as a refugee and provided transportation to his grandmother.

    If Barry has not filed naturalization papers to regain US citizenship, then he is still an Indonesian citizen with refugee status.

  207. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 7:58 pm #

    Don’t fret, my friend … it will all come out in the courts where we can ALL determine the truth of the matter.

    Sadly enough for your case, the courts have and will continue to reject to hear the case for Constitutional reasons.

    In the meantime why not save your breath since none of the stuff on this site has any evidentialy merit for court purposes.

    Since it is based on a legally valid document called the COLB, I have to once again reject your claims. Of course, if you are describing the case on the side of the plaintiffs, then you have a point. There is no evidence on that side that will make it into the record. For obvious reasons.

    That you continue to ignore the evidence that President Obama showed his legally binding document, the Certification of Live Birth, which shows him born on US soil, combined with the birth announcements and other evidence, which show him born on US soil.

    Simple facts.

  208. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 8:03 pm #

    I noticed you ignored the question about a divorced mother being incapable of obtaining a passport for her minor child without the permission of the birth father, even if the birth father has abandoned the child.

    That is incorrect, as long as the mother has a court document that states that she is the guardian of the child. Seems that you need to do some research my friend.

    Any mother who sends her child to live with another person, even the grandmother, has abandoned that child. I’m not making anything up. That’s a fact.

    That is not what you suggested happened. You suggested that the mother had abandoned the child who then returned on some refugee visa. In fact, the mother sent back her child to live with her grand parents where he could enjoy a better childhood and education. In fact, by doing so, she weakened your position since Obama returned to live in the US long before he gained the age of majority.

    Consequently, the only way Stanley Ann could take Barry with her to live with Lolo Soetoro in Indonesia would be for Lolo to adopt or acknowledge Barry has his son and obtain travel docs in that method.

    Adoption was an impossibility. He may have acknowledged Obama as his ‘son’ but that has no impact on Obama’s status as a natural born US citizen. You do realize that a US born child cannot lose his natural born citizenship status through the actions of his parent(s)?

    The problem occurred when Stanley Ann’s marriage to Lolo began to deteriorate. Barry didn’t have a US passport.

    Contradicted by the facts, unsupported by any evidence. Why do you insist on making up facts my friend? Does reality not suit you? I can understand your desperation but not your methods.

  209. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 8:05 pm #

    I think that such a comment came from a member of his legal minions trying to keep all of his records out of the hands of the public. He may not be foolish enough to make such a statement (but he’s said some other very foolish statements so who knows?).

    I thought you were the great researcher, Doc

    Translation: I have no evidence and once again Doc has called someone’s bluff and won.

    Seems that Doc is quite an expert at exposing lies and manufactroversies.

    Have you no shame to make assertions without any backing evidence other than ‘I believe that…’?

    Wow.

  210. avatar
    brygenon May 25, 2009 at 8:29 pm #

    ‘Exactly when did President Obama assert that : “a detailed examination of his birth records would lead to embarrassment, not to mention his ineligibility to be President”?’

    This particular birther lie traces to a defense motion in Berg v. Obama, which quotes from FRCP Rule 26(c)(1), in which protecting a party from “embarrassment” is among the several valid motivations for a protective order.

    http://www.obamacrimes.info/100608Obama,%20Defense%20request%20for%20Protective%20Order%20re%20Discovery.pdf

    Contrary to SvenMagnussen’s reporting, there was never any statement by Obama, nor his attorney, that embarrassment was the motivation for requesting the order.

  211. avatar
    NBC May 25, 2009 at 8:44 pm #

    More frivolous ‘arguments’ it seems, resulting not from a careful research but rather from jumping to conclusions based on hearsay.

  212. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 25, 2009 at 8:48 pm #

    Sven: Any mother who sends her child to live with another person, even the grandmother, has abandoned that child….

    You’re entitled to your opinion, but it is not a widely held one. Sending a child to another country for school, particularly by an expatriot is not at all unusual.

    And again, how do you think any facts about Obama’s birth would have any relevance to Obama’s school choice ten years later? That’s nonsense. The rest is fantasy with no evidence. You have a nasty mind, I think.

  213. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 25, 2009 at 8:51 pm #

    NBC: “Seems that Doc is quite an expert at exposing lies and manufactroversies”

    Nah, refuting nObamas is like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Really all one has to do is stay honest, read carefully, listen to smarter people, and write it down.

  214. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 25, 2009 at 8:52 pm #

    Thanks very much for that information.

  215. avatar
    Brian May 25, 2009 at 11:58 pm #

    He’s as illegal as the Mexicans running around Phoenix killing people. Open your eyes.

    And WND has more integrity than MSNBC, NBC, DailyKos, ABC, CBS, NPR, HuffPo and moveon.orgasm combined. Oh, and the LEFT doesn’t have the backing of “millionaires”? I’m sure George Soros would beg to differ, idiots.

  216. avatar
    NBC May 26, 2009 at 12:03 am #

    I assume this means you have not seen his COLB which shows him born in the US.

    That you consider WND to have more integrity than the other sites, explains your follies.

    4 more years 🙂 Sucks doesn’t it…

  217. avatar
    aarrgghh May 26, 2009 at 1:26 am #

    exhibit a) joe farah, wnd owner/ceo, may 24 2009, “where’s the birth certifigate”:

    obama’s promises of transparency have become a bad joke as he continues to hide simple, innocuous documents like his birth certificate and his student records.

    the idea behind the billboard campaign is to make sure obama cannot avoid this question any longer. he must be asked to produce it at every turn, farah says.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99035

    exhibit b) wnd, aug 23 2008, “dem sues sen obama over ‘fraudulent candidacy'”:

    a separate WND investigation into obama’s birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

    i guess amnesia must be one of the side effects of emptying the pockets of birthers.

  218. avatar
    aarrgghh May 26, 2009 at 1:28 am #

    please excuse the formatting on that last comment; my blockquotes seem to have imploded.

    any way we can get preview capability for comments?

  219. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 26, 2009 at 3:13 am #

    You are talking about the Russian text on the right, of course. It is a typical Kommersant joke: only the incrowd liberals and communists and people who still remember the episode know that is “black humour”. Note that under Communism, even under Khrutshov, no paper would have been able to get away with even that. As for the expression that Google could not translate, I did not even notice, since in German (and Dutch) it is the same: “Zeit kürzen”. It is probably an expression borrowed from German. Both Dutch and Russian also have an expression which looks borrowed from the English “to kill time” (which is how I would have translated this passage in English).

  220. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 26, 2009 at 3:29 am #

    To stay on thread, I should have added that, in my view, Orly scored a nice own goal here. The two birth announcements, in two competing newspapers, with all the births in the same order, prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii. The 2005 Russia episode proves beyond any reasonable doubt that Obama is a US citizen (whatever silliness may have happened in Indonesia or elsewhere). Conclusion: Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States. If Orly gets that, she will now add the Russian Federation ambassador to her extaordinary “Mandamus Writ of Quo Warranto for Stay of Tenure”, of course.

  221. avatar
    myson May 26, 2009 at 4:23 am #

    Jtx, no-one is against a court case if the right plaintiff can be convinced to bring the case, the right plaintiff include Mccain, palin & Biden. This whole site is about examining the possible legal issues if it ever gets there & the most likely outcome (though the site isnt expressly a lawyers site). Get the right plaintiff before a court then it will get interesting.
    But have you noticed the parties bringing these suits cant persuade the right parties to fill the suits, if the right parties cant be persuaded that they have a case why should Obama use up his good time fighting the wrong parties ??
    Should i be able to bring a suit against you for an accident i or anyone known to me insnt involved in ? wont you asks a court to dismiss such a suit if the right parties are wrongly suing you especially when the right parties are easily identifiable ? That is what Obama’s lawyers are simply doing as any good lawyer would, you dont waste time answering questions asked by the wrong parties, you get it tossed.
    As a lawyer i cant tell you that 90% of these cases will get tossed out even if no lawyer appeared for Obama as the parties would have to establish that they are the right parties & they cant do that.
    So Jtx, get the right parties in court then we’ll see if the position stated by this site isnt upheld by the courts.

  222. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 26, 2009 at 4:33 am #

    Why don’t we all just stop wastime time and effort and have this properly settled in court.

    Because (1) The burden of proof in court would lie with those who challenge Obama’s citizenship, and they have as yet not been able to produce any shred of evidence to support that claim., and (2) such a “court” action would violate the US Constitution – both via Article III which limits the power of the courts, and via the provisions of the Constitution which put the power to both seat and unseat a President solely in the hands of Congress.

  223. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 26, 2009 at 6:57 am #

    George Soros isn’t running a news web site, but the conservative millionaire investors do fund WND. There are web sites with extensive catalogs of the lies told by WND. I mention a few here: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/public-enemy-number-one/

  224. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 26, 2009 at 6:59 am #

    I’ll have to look into it. It’s not part of the standard package.

  225. avatar
    NBC May 26, 2009 at 10:44 am #

    the idea behind the billboard campaign is to make sure obama cannot avoid this question any longer. he must be asked to produce it at every turn, farah says.

    He released his COLB which WND considered to be valid. Are they now retreating? and why?

  226. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 26, 2009 at 1:25 pm #

    The Preview feature has been enabled. Instead of clicking Submit, click the Preview button below. The post will be previewed exactly as it would appear on the page, but be sure to click Submit after previewing or all your hard work will go away.

  227. avatar
    aarrgghh May 26, 2009 at 1:28 pm #

    here’s something i found via google:

    wordpress live comment preview plugin

    http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/live-comment-preview/

    i’m not on wordpress so i can’t play with it (nor do i need to with blogger) but it looks very plug-and-play.

  228. avatar
    aarrgghh May 26, 2009 at 1:29 pm #

    talk about timing! thanks!!!

    works for me!

  229. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 9:35 am #

    All Barry would have to do is show his ORIGINAL VAULT BC and his College Transcripts and AAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL this arguing would cease.

    unless…

    …unless he has something to hide…

  230. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 28, 2009 at 9:51 am #

    Back before June of 2008 people said “just show us a birth certificate and all this arguing will cease”. So Obama posted his birth certificate on his web site and let a fact checking organization look at it and photograph it. Then they said “just show us the long form (vault) copy of the birth certificate and all this arguing will cease”. Then as time went on, they said “just show us the long form (vault) copy of the birth certificate and his College Transcripts and all this arguing will cease”. And of course, no argument would cease. That idea is the biggest delusion of them all. There will be demands the Income tax forms for the last 20 years, passport records, entry and exit records, Indonesian records, Kenyan records, law firm client lists, and 5th grade school essays.

    It’s a smear campaign, not a search for the truth.

  231. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 9:53 am #

    Interesting…Saetoro is a Constitutional Attorney, so why would he NOT go through proper vetting channels like McCain did?

    *BTW, I don’t support either side, they’re both owned by Wall Street*

    Why does his COLB in Hawai’i rate a 24 hour armed security guard? His COLB part of national security now?

    What a joke!

    If new readers can’t see through these obvious smoking guns I feel for you all.

    His mentor at Columbia was Zbigniew Brzezinski (you know Carter’s NSA advisor whom, with Robert Gates invented Al Qaeda-1st called the Mujahideen?) The same Brzezinski who in his book the Grand Chessboard BRAGS about how he funded Pol Pott in the 60’s to kill over a million Cambodians!

    And this is Obama-er sorry, Saetoro’s mentor?

    Pop quiz: what does Al Qaeda translate to?

    Time’s up!

    It means the database, as in the database Brzezinski and our current SECDEF invented to be quote, “…the Great Bulwark against Soviet Communism…”

    These evildoers invented Islamic Fundamentalism!

    Does anyone in their right mind truly believe that some people in a cave with walkie talkies could make NORAD stand down for the first time in its 50 year history?

  232. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 28, 2009 at 9:58 am #

    Precisely what vetting die McCain get that Obama did not get? Documentation please.

    Al Qaeda means “base”, not “database”.

  233. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 10:00 am #

    manufactroversies? Are you for real? Nope.

    These folks like NBC and the crock-o-shite doc make up words like they make up ‘facts’.

    Pitiable really. Trading pseudo-intellectualism for reality in an effort (a failing 1 I add) to dissuade any truth seekers out there and all for a gov’t paycheck.

  234. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 10:01 am #

    McCain’s BC

  235. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 10:13 am #

    Here’s the skinny on Obamaton’s COLB: It would be, say again would be sufficient evidence of Barry’s birthplace if it had THE OFFICIAL STATE SEAL (that puffy circular raised kind) and a (Real) Doc’s signature; of which, it has NEITHER ONE!

    That’s why folks weren’t satisfied with it. Plus the fact that underneath his name you can legibly see the name “Maya”.

    Just like 9/11: there are just TOO MANY SIMPLE QUESTIONS that cannot be or refuse to be answered.

    That’s why places like this exist.

    I call them Side Track Sites.

    Tata children and trolls…

    [Obscene comment removed, Doc. C.]

  236. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 10:28 am #

    Here’s the skinny on Obamaton’s COLB: It would be, say again would be sufficient evidence of Barry’s birthplace if it had THE OFFICIAL STATE SEAL (that puffy circular raised kind) and a (Real) Doc’s signature; of which, it has NEITHER ONE!

    Another lie, it has both. In fact, the seal can be seen on the scans and photographs taken of the document show both the seal and the signature (not the Doc’s but rather the administator of Hawaii Birth Records).

    Sigh… Are you really going to continue your reign of error?

  237. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 10:30 am #

    These folks like NBC and the crock-o-shite doc make up words like they make up facts’.

    So far you have not shown any examples of me making up facts. In fact, I have shown many of your so called facts to be made up.

    It’s called projecting my dear friend.

  238. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 10:31 am #

    Obama presented his legally equivalent, the COLB.

    Next…

  239. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 10:33 am #

    He has presented his COLB which is sufficient. There is no reason to present the college transcripts as they do not establish his birth place which is sufficient.

    Them are the facts my dear friend. That you do not like the facts is something you will have to deal with yourself, as it is unlikely that any court cases will succeed. Thank God for the Constitution which protects defendants from legal harassments.

  240. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 10:35 am #

    Interesting…Saetoro is a Constitutional Attorney, so why would he NOT go through proper vetting channels like McCain did?

    He did go through the same proper vetting channels. Your ignorance is becoming a bit tiring. Do you really intend to be a showcase of ignorance and its effects on one’s reasoning skills and attention to facts?

  241. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 28, 2009 at 11:11 am #

    Promethius11 says falsely:

    Here’s the skinny on Obamaton’s COLB: It would be, say again would be sufficient evidence of Barry’s birthplace if it had THE OFFICIAL STATE SEAL (that puffy circular raised kind) and a (Real) Doc’s signature; of which, it has NEITHER ONE!

    Here are photos of the stamp and seal (stamp is on the back)

    http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg
    http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_9.jpg

    That’s why folks weren’t satisfied with it. Plus the fact that underneath his name you can legibly see the name “Maya”.

    Well you seem to see all sorts of things that aren’t really there. But of course Maya wasn’t born in Hawaii, and doesn’t have a Hawaiian birth certificate, so it would be really strange for her name to be on one.

    Knowing what I know, you seem an utter and complete flake. The only question is whether it’s worth the trouble to reply. Certainly not worth it for your benefit (you’re too far gone), and probably not for anybody else’s either.

  242. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 11:15 am #

    Thanks Doc, educating people is something you do so well. I wonder if Prometheus realizes that he was a willing toy in the hands of those who are unable to present the facts. What is truly amazing is that you exposed these issues quite some time ago and yet, people are still repeating them.

    Fascinating really as to how ignorance has its way to perpetuate through mere repetition of the same old lie.

  243. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 28, 2009 at 11:26 am #

    Conspiracy theorists don’t see cause and effect the same way as normal people. I don’t have a clue how to effect change in people like that.

  244. avatar
    smrstrauss June 7, 2009 at 6:54 pm #

    Re: “Any mother who sends her child to live with another person, even the grandmother, has abandoned that child. I’m not making anything up. That’s a fact.”

    Hundreds, if not thousands do it. In addition to the ones who allow their children to live with their relatives, there are the ones who send them to Andover, Choate, Deerfield, Exeter, Groton, and in another country, Eaton and Harrow.