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Licenses and Certificates

How do you get a driver’s license? You show up with some documents, say a Social Security card and a birth certificate. You take an eye test. You take a written test. You take a driving test, and the tester more than likely signs a piece of paper with your score on it. All that goes to a clerk who types that information into a computer screen, takes your picture, and prints a drivers license with a computer-assigned number for you. I daresay none of the paperwork that went into the computer is kept.

My driver’s license doesn’t have my Social Security number on it; it doesn’t have my written test score; it doesn’t have the letters I read off the eye chart. It doesn’t have the signature, or even the name of the person who gave me my manual test. Nevertheless, when I have to prove that I’m licensed to drive a car no one seems to care about all that paperwork; they just want to know if the state says I’m a licensed and they tell that by looking at a document with the state seal and the governor’s signature on it.

A birth certificate is pretty much the same thing, especially now in the days of electronic health records. A baby is born and the time of birth and some medical findings are entered into a computer EHR. The attending physician might sign a signature pad to capture an electronic image, or he may just key in a password and swipe an access card. Later on the mother is interviewed, or given a worksheet to fill out. It all gets keyed, and transmitted from the hospital to the state vital statistics entry. They make sure everything is filled out and they mark the record as registered and assign a certificate number.

Your birth certificate is a dump of some of the birth registration data from that computer system onto a nicely formatted piece of security paper, with the state seal, and signed by some responsible authority. Nobody asks you for the mothers worksheet, your APGAR score,  the doctors dictation recording, the delivery room nurse’s name, or anything else. The process was followed in the past and now it’s the state who certifies the information.

Driver’s licenses and birth certificates are really very much alike. In both cases someone goes through a prescribed process to get the paperwork into the computer, and in both cases, the state issues a document certifying that the process was indeed followed, and the information they print on it follows the state regulations required to record it.

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85 Responses to Licenses and Certificates

  1. avatar
    SvenMagnussen July 4, 2009 at 5:23 am #

    Try showing your driver’s license to a cop with the number redacted and see what happens.

    “But … but … officer, everything else is correct. I blocked out the number to maintain my privacy.”

    “Alright! Alright, I’ll post a jpg of the driver’s license on my friend’s website. I can’t believe you’re being such a douche bag, officer. ”

    “See! It’s right there on my buddy’s website. And the Transportation Commissioner’s spokesmodel just issued a press release stating everybody’s driver’s license looks exactly like mine. Jackass!”

  2. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 4, 2009 at 6:48 am #

    Sven, you can see the certificate number on Obama’s COLB quite clearly here:
    http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg

  3. avatar
    misha July 4, 2009 at 7:02 am #

    Nonsense, they are in the conspiracy too – along with everyone else in the universe.

    Slightly off topic. Has anyone seen the latest semi-literate rant on Orly’s site:

    “GOD BLESS THE MILITARY AS I HAVE ALWAYS STATED AND BELEIVED, THEY ARE OUR ONLY HOPE AS THIS GOVERMENT HAS BEEN STOLEN FROM THE PEOPLE BY A TYRANT KING. AND THEY WILL BE THE ONES TO UNSEAT THIS NO GOODNICK AND HE WILL CEED HIS POWER IN DISGRACE AND SHAME FOR WHAT HE HAS PERPETRATED ON THE TRUE CITIZENS OF A NATION, WHICH HE COULD NEVER HOLD A CANDLE TO ITS GREATNESS, TO OVERCOME SUCH A DASTERDLY DEED WILL REQUIRE THE THRASHING OF ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS”

  4. avatar
    IzMeBee July 4, 2009 at 8:01 am #

    There will never be anything that will shut these people up. I would like to buy them all Adam’s T-shirt from Mythbusters.

  5. avatar
    kimba July 4, 2009 at 8:45 am #

    “Nobody asks you for the mothers worksheet, your APGAR score, the doctors dictation recording, the delivery room nurse’s name, or anything else.”

    Nobody but birthers. Another good one is Phil at RSOL asking for Barack Obama’s request for a copy of his birth certificate on or around June 6, 2007 and the receipt that he paid.

    You have explained very well Doc that the certified copy attests that all back-up information is in order. Unfortunately, I doubt the birthers would be satisfied.

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 4, 2009 at 8:46 am #

    (John 20:24-25 NRSV) But Thomas (who was called the Twin), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. {25} So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands, and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in his side, I will not believe.”

    St. Thomas wanted to believe but couldn’t. Someone returning from the dead was just too incredibly implausible, but then he didn’t have a jpg of the risen Jesus to look at.

    Sven, on the other hand, persists in believing in the possibility of something incredibly implausible, that the birth certificate is a fake, in spite of the jpg copy of it (some of which show the certificate number).

    As a practical matter, none of us will be handling the physical birth certificate; we rely on witnesses, in this case FactCheck.org.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 4, 2009 at 8:50 am #

    For the record, I have on occasion provided photocopies of my drivers license for security and identification purposes, when that had to be done remotely. Of course the FactCheck.org photos of the Obama COLB show the full certificate with the number intact. I think anyone who derides the COLB because the certificate number was redacted in one copy is intentionally injecting misleading information into the discussion given the ready availability of images with the number present.

  8. avatar
    Epectitus July 4, 2009 at 9:15 am #

    Essentially… all birth certificates begin exactly the same way. They begin with somebody testifying to some authority that a birth took place.

    That somebody may be a physician. It may be a midwife. It may be a paramedic or a police officer. It may be a parent. It may be a stranger just passing by. But every single birth certificate on the planet begins with somebody making a statement that a baby was born at a certain time and place, and the recording authority taking their word for it.

    Each state has established standards for accepting that testimony as true for the purpose of recording acts of birth. None of them ar as cavalier as Birthers pretend (i.e. a single parent just walking in and making a declaration). Departments of Health (or their equivalent) all have investigatory guidelines specifically designed to avoid the sort of fraud that Birthers speculate about. Even Hawaii.

    Vital records (like birth, marriage and death certificates) were established specifically to create a legal standard for proof of specific factual events. They establish legal proof. Since there is no such thing as absolute proof, we necessarily create standards for what is “good enough.”

    In a civil court, that standard for legal proof is “preponderance of evidence.” In a criminal court, it is a somewhat higher standard; “beyond reasonable doubt.” Neither of those standards offer the impossible absolute… they are, for their purposes, “good enough.” Neither of them is likely to satisfy everybody… but they are the standard and our system is able to function only because we have them.

    A state certified and sealed birth certificate is the established legal standard for proof of citizenship. Like any other legal standard, this will certainly not satisfy everybody… but it is our standard and our system is able to function only because we have it.

    Birthers are perfectly free to insist on more than the legal standard, but no legal authority has the obligation to satisfy them. Furthermore, most legal authorities have the good sense and judgment to not even try. If they are unsatisfied with the legal standard, then they have a powerful Constitutional avenue of recourse and response; they can withhold their vote.

    This, ultimately, is the tool our Constitution provides our citizens to exercise their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the legal standards we have in place. Their vote.

    Ain’t Democracy a beautiful thing?

  9. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 4, 2009 at 9:24 am #

    Obama’s birth was not a delayed registration, occurring 4 days after the event.

    That said, delayed births can be registered by a parent who just walks in and swears under oath to the facts of the birth. My father, born in 1916, has just such a delayed birth certificate, attested to by his mother.

    The problem with birthers is that they are unable to follow the fine lines of the law and the rigor of logic. They apply laws and regulations when they don’t apply.

  10. avatar
    Epectitus July 4, 2009 at 9:35 am #

    And of course… delayed certificates of birth do not meet the standard set by the US Department of State for proof of citizenship at birth (i.e. registration within one year of birth). So (as you point out) they are irrelevant to this entire issue.

  11. avatar
    Heidi July 4, 2009 at 10:06 am #

    None of this will satisfy the birthers. They are making new videos in Ytube still asking for Obama’s bc, and that he is not a nbc. I told them to go to Star Bulletin read the new article where Janice Okubo said that the short form is the official Hawaian bc.
    None of that.
    These birthers are brainless, really idiots, one birther even told me that Hillary new that Obama was not a nbc and she didn’t say anything because she was going to be accused of racism! Can you believe that?!

  12. avatar
    SvenMagnussen July 4, 2009 at 11:17 am #

    With a cursory look at your jpg link you can see the fold lines are not parallel. That in and of itself makes the document suspicious.

    Barry will have to respond to one of the many lawsuits challenging his eligibility and show his certified copy of his complete birth record to a Judge to end the speculation on his eligibility.

  13. avatar
    kimba July 4, 2009 at 11:35 am #

    Wow, just wow. Seriously, someone really has to explain this to you? The fold lines don’t look “straight” looking at the picture because the picture is taken at an angle. The folds are absolutely at a 90 degree angle to the paper itself. ( That means the folds are straight.) If you really think the folds aren’t straight you are very spacially unaware. But I think you’re just grasping at straws and doing your willful disruption schtick. Get used to being ignored by anyone who matters if this is the best you’ve got.

  14. avatar
    kimba July 4, 2009 at 11:38 am #

    Pres Obama will never be called to answer any of the lawsuits to a Judge. Look at Doc’s docket page. The suits are dwindling and will be gone by the end of next month.

    You’ve been told by the courts that your answer is not in the Judicial branch. But spin your wheels anyway. All it’s going to get you is left behind.

  15. avatar
    NBC July 4, 2009 at 1:47 pm #

    As expected, Sven is still in denial and is looking for any reason that would force Obama to show his document in court.
    Too bad that none of these lawsuits have gotten past Constitutional protections.

  16. avatar
    dunstvangeet July 4, 2009 at 2:04 pm #

    He already has shown his complete birth record, SvenMagnussen. You can view it here.

    http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_2.jpg

  17. avatar
    Cymraeg July 4, 2009 at 2:50 pm #

    A question. The photocopy of the Application for Obana to enter an Indonesian school is crossed through from the upper right hand corner to the lower left hand corner. Legally when a document is crossed through like this, it means that it is void. Could that be the case here? I have not seen in any of the blogs any reference to this.

    Any thoughts?

  18. avatar
    Bob Weber July 4, 2009 at 3:32 pm #

    “Sven, on the other hand, persists in believing in the possibility of something incredibly implausible, that the birth certificate is a fake”

    Not to mention the implausibility of the underlying story: That an impecunious Kenyan student, who was flown to the U.S. on scholarship, and his pregnant teen bride would take a long and very expensive trip to Kenya just to say hi to the folks. Getting the money for the 1961 air fare would require long saving of a substantial part of one’s disposable income for an average decently-paid U.S. worker. They didn’t have MasterCard and Visa in those days.

  19. avatar
    NBC July 4, 2009 at 3:44 pm #

    Exactly, not only do all the known facts show Obama clearly born on US soil, there is no evidence other than pure speculation and hearsay that Obama was NOT born on US soil. In order for Obama to not be a Natural Born Citizen, Sven and others require a sequence of increasingly improbable steps to have taken place.
    Occam’s Razor would shred any such claims, as would the lack of admissible evidence in the Courts.

  20. avatar
    misha July 4, 2009 at 5:34 pm #

    It gets better. The Boeing 707 was introduced in 1959. They would have flown on BOAC, and most likely a prop plane, which means a stop half way to refuel and change crew. A prop plane has a top speed of ~325mph. A woman who was almost due was going to take a two-day trip on a cramped prop job, to a country where electricity was only in Nairobi. That borders on science fiction.

    Also at the time, air fares were regulated by the CAB. There wasn’t price competition, so it would have taken them almost one year to save for both tickets. There wasn’t Visa or MC, so they would have paid cash up front.

    In 1964, when my half-sister flew from NYC, more than half the time it was a prop plane. The 707 had not yet replaced all the fleets.

    And I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you -cheap.

  21. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 4, 2009 at 6:17 pm #

    Sven…. I know you will never understand this but for the benefit of anybody else who is reading this, it is very simple.

    1). During the campaign a rumor started that Obama was a secret muslim and his real middle name was “Mohammed” and he was hiding his birth certificate. After that rumor persisted for a few weeks (meaning it wasn’t going away of its own accord), the Obama campaign posted a scanned copy of the his birth certificate online and also sent it to various journalists, including some that ran fact-checking projects and made it a point of checking the validity of various political statements and rumors.

    2) The Obama staffers who scanned the birth certificate didn’t know whether the certificate number was something that legally should be private, like a social security number or a credit card number. So after they scanned the document, but before the posted the image online, they used photoshop to block out the number. This did not “invalidate” the original document because they didn’t make changes to the paper; just to the image.

    3. One of the fact-checking projects that received the scan was Politifact, a project of the St. Petersburg Times. The day that Politifact received the digital scan, they immediately contacted the Hawaii Dept of Health and emailed their copy, asking whether it was real. They received confirmation back within a day that the scan was genuine, so they ran that story: Obama provides birth certificate, Hawaii confirms it is genuine article.

    4. Then the internet rumor started that the scan was fake, because the digital image was photoshopped (obviously), and the flat image didn’t show fold signs or a raised seal.

    5. So another fact-checking project, FactCheck.org, which is a primarily academic project affiliated with a major University (University of Pennsylvania) — made arrangements to go to Chicago and verify the existence of the actual document. So that they could demonstrate the validity of the document to their readers, the took photos both the front and back of the document from multiple angles and some variations of lighting conditions. This enabled artifacts such as the seal (on the back) to be more easily viewed from the front, and for the fold lines to be apparent, as well as documenting that the seal was raised.

    6. At about the same time, the last honest anti-Obama researcher on earth was digging in Hawaii library archives to check birth announcements from August 1961, and ran across the microfiche copies of the published newspaper birth announcements, published within a week of Obama’s birth. Realizing that this evidence of a contemporaneous, published birth announcement put the final nail in the coffin of any claim that the birth certificate was fraudulent, the researcher reported on the internet that Obama’s Hawaii birth had been established. Subsequently, other individuals confirmed the existence of that announcement as well as an identical one in a separate paper and posted both on the internet.

    7. At this point, since any rational human being would recognize that there was abundant and incontrovertible evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, the psuedolawyers emerged, with invented theories that Obama lost his American citizenship when living in Indonesia as a child (legally impossible under US law); that he was not a “natural born citizen” because of his father’s British and/or Kenyan citizenship (wholly invented and legally unsupportable assertion); and/or that the “natural born citizen” clause of the Constitution somehow requires both birth in America and that both parents be citizens at the time of birth (also wholly invented and legally unsuppportable). (By “legally unsupportable” I mean that there is not a single reported case decision since the passage of the 14th Amendment nor a single published law review article that supports that interpretation of the law).

    I’m sure that the birthers will continue to come up with fake law and fake facts as long as they can.

  22. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 4, 2009 at 6:23 pm #

    I would add that the once-every-other-day train that ran from Nairobi to Mombasa, and takes about 12 hours to complete the journey, was called “The Lunatic Express”.

    Obviously an apt name for a key element of the birther’s theory.

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 4, 2009 at 7:40 pm #

    Would you explain precisely why fold lines should be parallel on real versions and not on suspicious ones?

  24. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 4, 2009 at 7:44 pm #

    Perhaps they do that when the student leaves the school to indicate he’s no longer a student there?

  25. avatar
    Gordon July 4, 2009 at 9:36 pm #

    Sven thinks factcheck.org is an Obama front organization. You know these birthers have a fall back excuse to counter real evidence.

  26. avatar
    NBC July 4, 2009 at 9:45 pm #

    I believe that Sven is under the impression that merely ‘challenging’ the document is sufficient. Reason and logic need not be applied

  27. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 4, 2009 at 11:31 pm #

    Circumstantial ad hominem.

    Coupled with confirmation bias, it is the crux of the birther rationale:

    All “facts” or theories, no matter how poorly supported or how outlandish, that support the birthers’ theories are accepted as true.

    Any person or entity who offers a fact or legal assertion that contradicts birther-theory is assumed to be biased in some way, and therefore everything put forth is rejected without further examination or scrutiny.

  28. avatar
    BlackLion July 5, 2009 at 1:22 am #

    Remember Sven is the guy that came up with the special “diplomatic consular passport” and the “Indonesian refugee status” theories to explain how President Obama was able to get back in the US and travel on business as a Senator…So he will never believe any rational evidence about anything…

  29. avatar
    BlackLion July 5, 2009 at 1:27 am #

    Misha, you are absolutely right. When you explain that to the birthers they have no response so they will ignore you and make other claims and never address how ridiculous it would be in 1961 for someone with extreme limited means to travel anywhere. Especially to a country that had no running water, electricity, and current medicine while 8 months pregnant. Once you explain about the flights, nothing even comes close to making that Obama being born in Kenya scenario plausable…

  30. avatar
    Bob Weber July 5, 2009 at 2:29 pm #

    Misha – Actually, only domestic air fares were controlled by the CAB. International fares were controlled by a cartel of the big internationals. It was only in the mid-1970’s that the great Sir Freddie Laker and others broke the cartel. I never flew internationally until 1976 when I flew L.A. to London on Laker for the then-astonishingly low price of $450. At the time I was making a pretty good (for 1976) yearly income of about $15,000. Before that, international flight was beyond my means.

  31. avatar
    misha July 5, 2009 at 6:13 pm #

    “Before that, international flight was beyond my means.”

    Thank you. I did overlook the CAB/cartel. So casual air travel claimed by Berg and his coterie would have been out of the question for impecunious students.

    I did forget that no one discounted international air travel until Laker.

    But it doesn’t matter to Orly and her cultists. She has videos on YouTube, flatly stating that Obama can never be NBC because of his father, and even though it is not explicitly stated in the 14th Amendment, it is implied, because of de Vattel’s philosophy.

    I was out of breath by the time her spiel ended. She has a lot of nerve. I wrote her a private e-mail, and asked her what would happen if she tried similar bullshit on Putin. Also, when she left the Soviet Union, the only ones who were allowed to leave were Jews who stated they wanted to emigrate to Israel. As a refusenik, Israel gave her subsidised housing, mortgage and tuition – which is substantial for dental school.

    So she took whatever offered, and now belittles the vox populi, which has spoken for Obama.

    Kettle, pot.

  32. avatar
    SvenMagnussen July 5, 2009 at 7:56 pm #

    Hmmmmm, Stanley Ann couldn’t afford an international flight in 1961, but she could afford to fly Barry internationally in 1971 (when he was 10-years-old), alone. And the price breaks on international flights began in the mid-70’s?

    Curiouser and Curiouser.

  33. avatar
    NBC July 5, 2009 at 8:27 pm #

    You do know that Soetoro was relatively well off? What is curious is your inability to apply logic to your own statements.

    Remarkable…

  34. avatar
    Gordon July 5, 2009 at 8:49 pm #

    Sven would have never given that simple fact any consideration.

  35. avatar
    kimba July 5, 2009 at 9:31 pm #

    Wait, aren’t you the one who insisted that his mother and Soetoro abandoned him in Indonesia? That Barack was found wandering the streets of Indonesia and sent back to Hawaii by the Ford Foundation? You can’t keep your dirty lies straight can you Sven?

  36. avatar
    NBC July 5, 2009 at 10:56 pm #

    And yet his imagination leads him to far more esoteric conclusions.
    What’s up with that?

  37. avatar
    misha July 5, 2009 at 11:51 pm #

    “You do know that Soetoro was relatively well off?”

    IIRC, he worked for an oil company, which paid well. I, OTOH, was a tradesman until the stroke.

    “You can’t keep your dirty lies straight can you Sven?”

    When did logic apply to a birther trying to smear Obama? He’s a black man who doesn’t know his place – anything goes. Look at some of the comments on Stormfront, if you have an empty stomach.

  38. avatar
    dunstvangeet July 6, 2009 at 1:34 am #

    Wow. Talk about kooks. Apparently, someone in Florida just spent $140 to sue Obama for 42 cents, because he didn’t receive the birth certificate when he wrote Obama for it.

    You can see the documents here (if you can bother reading his handwriting).

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/17115554/Connerat-v-Obama-Appealed

  39. avatar
    misha July 6, 2009 at 1:51 am #

    I just showed it to my wife, and we were howling.

    Actually, I hope these people keep it up. It’s great entertainment. I think some of the birthers need lithium medication.

    Orly told her cultists that she has spent over $11K on her quixotic campaign. There’s a medical term for that.

  40. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 6, 2009 at 2:39 am #

    I love the part where he seeks “treble damages”. Lets see, 3 times 42 = $1.26.

    OK, right……

    (At least he’s figured a way past the standing issue. He clearly does have “standing” to sue for the recovery of HIS 42…. too bad that he didn’t get the jurisdiction or cause of action parts right.)

  41. avatar
    myson July 6, 2009 at 4:58 am #

    This must be one the most baffling conclusion i’ve seen a birther come up with — someone could fly in 1961 but could fly in 1971 & that means the person could afford it 10years previously !!!!!

    Based on his own comment there was a 10year gap.
    Sven pls reread your comment & see how absurd it is !!!!

  42. avatar
    Ian Gould July 6, 2009 at 5:36 am #

    h but you’re forgetting the millions they were being paid by the Soviets for spying on the US, the millions more they were getting from the Saudis and the millions MORE again they were making from their drug dealing, welfare fraud and illegal organ harvesting.

    (All these claims have in fact been made in all seriousness by assorted birthers. They aren’t just willing to believe anything negative about Obama they’re prepared to beleive EVERYTHING.)

  43. avatar
    Ian Gould July 6, 2009 at 6:01 am #

    Even curiouser is that you don’t bother asking how Dunham could afford to fly to Indoensia in 1966,

    Answer: Ger second husband presumably paid for the flight and did so again in 1971. Dunham and Sutoro didn’t divorce until 1980.

    Not to mention, that to this day flights to Africa are dramatically more expensive than flights to Indonesia.

    Best fare from LA to Mombasa – US$4136 (and there are still NO direct flights from the US to Mombasa.)

    http://www.wego.com/flights/search.html?instanceid=9cde3eb3803e3a13f8c9e864fd3b6fcfb35160a5a&to=MBA&from=LAX&tripType=roundtrip&outboundDate=2009-07-27&inboundDate=2009-07-31&adults=1&children=0&cabinClasses=Economy

    Lowest airfare LA to Jakarta – $1038

    http://www.wego.com/flights/search.html?instanceid=4b34dfdcf276eafd90169cdd2661c8898e421ee4a&to=JKT&from=LAX&tripType=roundtrip&outboundDate=2009-07-27&inboundDate=2009-07-31&adults=1&children=0&cabinClasses=Economy

  44. avatar
    misha July 6, 2009 at 7:53 am #

    “illegal organ harvesting”

    So THAT’S what happened to my kidney. I should have known ACORN was behind it.

    Hey, did you hear Obama’s physician in Chicago has brought back to life Alinsky? He did it in a castle on the outskirts of Cook County.

    Sven told me, and jtx confirmed it.

  45. avatar
    Ian Gould July 6, 2009 at 8:25 am #

    Are these doctors involved with Organ Harvesting/Trafficking???

    http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSMAN28233220070607
    June 7, 2007

    ““…He said trafficking for organs was on the rise in China and in many impoverished states in Southeast Asia, like Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Myanmar, the Philippines and Vietnam.”

    Are the people currently associated with the building that houses THE FORD FOUNDATION at 320 E. 43rd St. involved in another body organ trafficking ring?”

    http://mitchell-langbert.blogspot.com/2008/11/contrairimairi-raises-baffling.html

  46. avatar
    SvenMagnussen July 6, 2009 at 9:04 am #

    If Lolo was well off, why didn’t he spring for an escort to assist Barry (10-years-old) with his international flight on a turbo-prop and to get through U.S. Customs.

    Which brings me to a joke I thought of …

    A 10-year-old named Barry lands by himself in Hawaii after a 12 hour flight in 1971. A US Customs agent hands Barry a stake of forms to fill out before he can be cleared.

    Barry looks at the Agent and says, “I speak six different languages. Which language should I fill these forms out with?”

    The Customs Agent says, “English will be fine.”

    Barry winks at the Customs Agent and says, “Someday, I’m going to be President.”

    The Customs Agent says, “Which country?”

  47. avatar
    Black Lion July 6, 2009 at 9:11 am #

    Orly and her delusional followers are at it again. They have a top 10 posting on President Obama documenting why he is ineligible to be President. The amusing part is how as usual they are relying on universially discredited informatiion to support their delusionals. It goes to show you that no matter how many times you provide proof that their beliefs are wrong, they are still determined to believe in their delusions. The best part is how they footnote the information to make it look more believable. And some of the places they cite as a source. They should have just used WND, it would have been as credible.

    Top Ten Things That You Should Know About
    Barack H. Obama’s, (a/k/a Barry Soetoro) US Citizenship

    1. He may not be a natural born citizen qualified to serve as President under Article II of the Constitution

    2. He is a suspected illegal alien for two possible reasons

    3. He took elected office and was admitted to the Illinois Bar under an alias
    He admits he was born to an American mother and a British subject, suggesting dual citizenship at best. [1]If he was not born on U.S. soil, and his mother was a minor, she was ineligible to convey US citizenship.[2] Under the British Nationality Act of 1948, he was born a British Citizen.[3] His paternal grandmother claims to have attended his birth in Kenya.[4] Kenya memorializes his place of birth.[5]

    At age 3, his mother and father divorced. His mother remarried and his step-father enrolled him in school in Indonesia as “Barry Soetoro.”[6]

    At age 10, after his mother’s second divorce,[7]he reentered the US by casually and illegally assuming his birth name. Later still, he ran for and won elected office under his birth name without disclosing his legal name or his prior use of alternative names.[8]

    No record of any legal name change from Barry Soetoro’ to Barack Obama’ has ever been found.

    4. He probably lost his citizenship.
    An Indonesian citizen at age 6[9], having been adopted by a national, he may be in the US illegally.[10] USC §1481(a)(2) provides loss of nationality by natural born citizens upon “taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state … after having attained the age of eighteen years,” in violation of 8 U.S.C. §1401(a)(1). Indonesia did not allow for dual citizenship. If Obama got an Indonesian passport in 1981, when he was 20 years old, he effectively renounced any U.S. citizenship he may have had.

    5. He is suspected of secretly holding a foreign passport.
    When he traveled to Pakistan in college’,[11] Americans were not allowed into that country.[12] If he traveled on an Indonesian passport in 1981 at age 20, he was and remains an Indonesian citizen.

    6. He posted an illegitimate birth record to deflect questions and allegations.

    7. The Certification of Live Birth is a suspected forgery.
    The “Certification of Live Birth” shown on FightTheSmears.com is not a birth certificate, but an image of an abstract that was invalidated by alteration. As indicated on that same image, the blacked out certification number invalidates the document. Document analysis shows it to be a suspected forgery.

    The border is one that is used in 2007 COLBs. As a security measure, Hawaii changes their borders every year. This is when the Obama campaign claims the certificate was obtained. However, the seal and signature stamp are from a 2008 COLB. As revealed by a process called edging, the Hawaiian seal and signature stamp on the back of the document are revealed to be from the wrong year. Document experts have analyzed other aspects and find forgery.

    8. He refuses to release relevant records.
    Since matters available in the public domain raise these issues, the burden rests on Obama/Soetoro to explain. He declines to release college applications, transcripts, his birth record, or addresses of where he has lived.

    9. His selective service registration may be falsified.
    A FOIA document shows a 2008 sequence number for a supposed 1980 registration, an incorrect date of signature, an obsolete postal stamp and other discrepancies. Did he register at age 18 like everyone else?[13]

    10. Not a single cause of action has been won by Obama on the merits.
    All pending suits attempting to get Obama/Soetoro to produce simple documents have been dismissed on technical grounds such as the standing of the plaintiff. Therefore, the courts, including the Supreme Court of the United States have never ruled on the merits of his citizenship.

    ——————————————————————————–

    [1] “Dreams from my Father”

    [2] Section 301(a)(7) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952, 66 Stat. 163, 235, 8 U.S.C. §1401(b)

    [3] FightTheSmears.com admits: “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.s children. Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.” However, Obama should have reaffirmed allegiance under 8 USC 1401 et seq. upon turning 18. He did not.

    [4] http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/3074

    [5] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH4GX3Otf14

    [6][6] AP photo Image of registration shown at http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656

    [7] http://www.plainsradio.com/Home1/SOETORO%20DIVORCE%20P%201-5.pdf

    [8] 18 USC 1001: It is a federal crime punishable to lie to a federal official, which would include immigration and election.

    [9] The divorce decree confirms he was adopted by an Indonesian citizen.

    [10] Title 8 USCA 1401, 1481, & 1483

    [11] A new revelation made during a public campaign appearance in San Francisco in April of 2008 wherein his abilities in the arena of foreign relations was under discussion.

    [12] http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obamas-college.html

    [13] http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/11/exclusive_did_n.html

  48. avatar
    misha July 6, 2009 at 12:14 pm #

    “Which country?”

    Tralfamadore.

  49. avatar
    NBC July 6, 2009 at 1:27 pm #

    If Lolo was well off, why didn’t he spring for an escort to assist Barry (10-years-old) with his international flight on a turbo-prop and to get through U.S. Customs.

    Why do you believe an escort was needed. Barry returned on his US passport and was admitted.

    I am glad that you have come to realize that your original ‘argument’ was a bit, well, …foolish perhaps?

  50. avatar
    NBC July 6, 2009 at 1:32 pm #

    And of course, President Obama explains in his book

    Now the family was standing absolutely still, trying to will themselves
    invisible, their eyes silently following the hands that riffled through their passports and luggage with a menacing calm.
    The father reminded me of Lolo somehow, and I looked down at the wooden mask I was carrying in my hand. It was a gift from the Indonesian copilot, a friend of my mother’s who had led me away as she and Lolo and my new sister, Maya, stood by at the gate.

    followed by his arrival

    Someone shouted out my name. The mask dropped to my side, and with it my daydream, and I saw my grandparents again standing there, waving almost frantically now. This time I waved back; and then, without thinking, I brought the mask again up to my face, swaying my head in an odd little dance. My grandparents laughed and pointed at me and waved some more until the customs official finally tapped me on the shoulder and asked me if I was an American. I nodded and handed him my passport.
    “Go ahead,” he said, and told the Chinese family to step to one side.

    Cheers

  51. avatar
    JeffSF July 6, 2009 at 1:35 pm #

    Expelliarmus- best recap I have seen so far- Doc you should save this one out like a FAQ. Thanks for putting that together.

  52. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 6, 2009 at 2:09 pm #

    One problem the birthers have, which Sven repeats, is that they don’t seem to be able to read a map. If they did, of course, they would have known that Mombasa never made sense, given that the grandmother lived in western Kenya and Mombasa is on the eastern shore. (If Stanley had been stranded in Kenya, she would have given birth in Nairobi — especially given the claim that the grandmother from Kogelo village was present at the time. It would have been a 1 day journey from Kogelo by train to Nairobi, 2 days to Mombasa)

    Jakarta, Indonesia is 6700 miles from Honolulu; it is a straight line flight over the Pacific ocean. It is 10,760 miles from Honolulu to Nairobi — and as noted, would have involved multiple flights back in 1961, probably via New York, London & Cairo.

  53. avatar
    richCares July 6, 2009 at 3:05 pm #

    Sven brings up the “blanked out” number quite often as does his hero Polarik. So it is quite obvious that he does not read nor does he understand the responses that are given to him. That means he may actually be insane. To Polarik, the blanked out number voids the original in their universe and sven concurs.

  54. avatar
    Black Lion July 6, 2009 at 3:15 pm #

    Speaking of cases going nowhere it seems like Kerchner needs some more money….

    If the People want the usurper Obama out, they have to support people like me and Attorney Apuzzo at this point. I cannot do this all by myself. Attorney Apuzzo is donating his time for this case pro-bono. But there is still need for substantial amounts of funds to pursue efforts such as publicity for the case, now and going forward. Except for a few spontaneous donations in the last six months, I have carried the out of pocket cash financial load for this case’s legal service fees and court costs, etc., and the advertising, now for almost 6 months. The costs are now at a level that I need help. So I decided at this point to ask for help with the advertising part of the costs. Please spread the word of this new initiative. Thank you.

    When will the birthers wake up and see that they are being conned for more and more money. Between Berg, Orly, Kerchner, and others they are preying on these birthers for money….I guess the saying is true, “A fool and his money is soon parted”…

  55. avatar
    Black Lion July 6, 2009 at 3:34 pm #

    More money solicitations…It seems like good old boys Carl Swensson and Bob Campbell need some of the birthers “hard earned money”…

    “In order for this trip to become a reality, Patriot’s Heart Network would appreciate any donations you can contribute. You can donate at our website or through your paypal by using txliberty@patriotsheartnetwork.com. Donations are needed for travel, hotel, and miscellaneous expenses. No amount is too small, as every dollar is needed to be successful in taking back our country.”

    Even more funny is the way one of their followers signs the request…

    Chief Magistrate Judge of the U.S. District Court,
    Royce Lamberth
    202-354-3380 (Chambers)

    Chief Magistrate? Are you kidding me? They really take their phoney Grand Juries seriously. I guess that helps in the solictation of money from their brainwashed followers. It is hard to believe that these people can be so dimwitted that they don’t realize that they are being conned. Simply amazing.

  56. avatar
    Bob Weber July 6, 2009 at 3:45 pm #

    Dr. C: Off topic, but if your ears are burning today, it’s because you’re being talked about on Free Republic:
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2285946/

    As opposed to this site, which has been very informative, the birfer threads at Freep are getting ever more stupid. (Birfer debunkers are regularly banned.) One guy today is actually questioning whether Stanley Ann was really Obama’s mother:
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2286067/posts?page=197#197

    Sheesh!

  57. avatar
    kimba July 6, 2009 at 4:16 pm #

    According to Swennson, the District Court in DC is giving their papers a case number and the Judge Lamberth says he’ll make a decision. The birthers are saying this means ” the case is going to be heard.” Any opinion from the attorneys here what might happen next?
    http://www.riseupforamerica.com/

  58. avatar
    kimba July 6, 2009 at 4:17 pm #

    May I also comment what a mess Swennson’s site is.

  59. avatar
    kimba July 6, 2009 at 4:20 pm #

    http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/lamberth-bio.html

  60. avatar
    nbc July 6, 2009 at 4:28 pm #

    Denial?

  61. avatar
    kimba July 6, 2009 at 4:30 pm #

    Link them to this picture of Stanley Armour Dunham:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/30/stanley-dunhams-wwii-expe_n_209385.html
    or this one:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Armour_Dunham

    It is obvious where Barack got that chin, facial shape, his mouth, the eyes. Maybe even the ears.

    Idjits.

  62. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2009 at 4:36 pm #

    That thread that was supposed to mention me has been pulled. I’m banned at FreeRepublic, evidence that they are very unlike a real “Free Republic” where people are not muzzled because of their views.

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2009 at 4:40 pm #

    I’m sorry, what does one need “publicity” for in a lawsuit?

    If advertising is integral to the lawsuit, then it’s purpose is to smear, not to win.

  64. avatar
    Bob July 6, 2009 at 4:46 pm #

    Any opinion from the attorneys here what might happen next?

    The circular file.

    These “super” “grand jury” “presentments” are not legal documents, so they’ll either be returned or recycled.

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2009 at 4:49 pm #

    Expelliarmus has made several high quality remarks of late. Some of this may belong on the wiki (under construction).

  66. avatar
    Bob July 6, 2009 at 4:57 pm #

    The best-case scenario (for Swensson, et al) would be that the court treats the “presentments” as a complaint (i.e., a regular civil lawsuit), and it would up to the plaintiffs to serve the suit of the defendant(s) (presumably Obama), etc.

    I hear Orly Taitz has some expertise in service of federal lawsuits.

  67. avatar
    Bob Weber July 6, 2009 at 7:01 pm #

    A conspiracy “theorist” can explain away anything. (I use the scare quotes because real theories, even wrong ones, deal in facts – not something that someone squeezed out of his arse.) The photos of Grampa Dunham were obviously altered to show a resemblance to Obama. Or maybe Obama underwent plastic surgery to make him look like Grampa Dunham! See how easy that was?

    For an example, a “theory” was put forward on Freep by “Calpernia”, (who I believe is former Orly associate Lisa Ostella), which goes something like this: (1) The photos of Obama Sr., Obama, and Stanley Ann (http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08ZcdUO6KLd3S/610x.jpg and http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0cKn2mgeXleqN/610x.jpg) ostensibly taken in the early 1970’s were really taken in 1960 and the boy in the photo is really Obama’s older half brother, Roy. The photo was digitally altered to make him look like Barack, Jr. (2) Since ostensibly Roy would have been about two years old at the time, his year of birth was faked to make it 1958 when it was really about 1950. (3) Since Obama Sr. was ostensibly about 14 years old in 1950, his year of birth was faked to make in 1936 when he was actually born about 10 years earlier. (No, I’m not making this up!) (4)Obama Sr. paid for a very expensive round-trip ticket from Kenya to Hawaii for Roy so Roy could come to Hawaii all by himself to help them pack for the trip to Kenya! (5) All three then flew back to Kenya so Obama Sr. could legally marry Stanley Ann there. (6) Stanley Ann then spent 8 months happily sponging off the Kenyan in-laws as the junior wife in a Muslim polygamous marriage when she suddenly realized she was due and decided to head back for the U.S. to give birth. Instead of traveling to relatively nearby Nairobi (which had the only airport serviced by international carriers in 1961) she and the in-laws traveled all the way across Kenya to Mombasa (which didn’t have scheduled service at the airport – charters only in 1961). Alas, she couldn’t get a flight and she went into labor and gave birth at Coast Provincial hospital with the in-laws attending. And how did she deduce all this? By looking at the background in the photos!

    Whew! You can check it out for yourself at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2040486/ which has more than 8,200 (!!) responses. Calpernia’s fantasy is in the 1,000 to 3,000 range. Look for the airport pictures.

    If there is ever an award for craziest birth conspiracy fantasy, I nominate Calpernia’s.

    (Sorry for the length of this comment, but I just had to share this!)

  68. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2009 at 7:19 pm #

    Somehow “American Grand Jury” reminds me of “American Idol”.

  69. avatar
    Bob July 6, 2009 at 7:42 pm #

    “America’s Next Top Idiot”

  70. avatar
    Joyce July 6, 2009 at 8:23 pm #

    “I’m banned at FreeRepublic, evidence that they are very unlike a real “Free Republic” where people are not muzzled because of their views.”

    With all the banning at “conservative” websites I feel more secure in my First Amendment rights with the country in the hands of “liberals”.

  71. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2009 at 9:13 pm #

    Calpernia comments here on occasion. Ron Polarik (not a real person) has also claimed the images are fake.

  72. avatar
    thisoldhippie July 6, 2009 at 10:16 pm #

    I find it so ironic that the conservatives have been screaming about the “Fairness Doctrine” being a violation of their First Amendment rights, but then when Rachel Maddow had her say regarding Orly Taitz being crazy as a bedbug, those same people began screaming for equal time for their most hallowed savior to speak her piece.

  73. avatar
    Bob Weber July 6, 2009 at 10:34 pm #

    Black Lion: I wish I didn’t have to slog through all that but it does illustrate the dishonesty of the birfers. Take for example note 12 which is supposed be about a ban on Americans traveling to Pakistan. Click on the link and you get a story by Jake Tapper which doesn’t mention any Pakistan travel ban (which has been completely debunked).

    A birfer habit which bears mentioning is the extreme parsing of other people’s statements to read in meaning which isn’t there, or to deny the clear meaning of what is said. However, they use extremely loose language in their own statements to make misleading insinuations. For instance, they constantly repeat the meme that “Hawaii issues COLB’s to foreign-born”. Never mind that the law in question wasn’t passed until 1982. They are clearly insinuating that “Hawaii issues COLB’s to foreign-born which show place of birth as Honolulu” but they never actually come right out and say it.

  74. avatar
    BlackLion July 6, 2009 at 10:37 pm #

    Dr C., good point…Most rational people would see that…But the birthers are so delusional and hate Obama so much that they can’t see how it doesn’t make sense…

  75. avatar
    BlackLion July 6, 2009 at 11:02 pm #

    Dr. C, you are banned because you tell it like it is and they have no way to rebutt what you say because you back it up with proof…

  76. avatar
    Bob Weber July 6, 2009 at 11:10 pm #

    “Polarik” has even claimed that Obama’s school pictures are faked. Obama must be paying a fortune in hush money to keep thousands of unaltered originals suppressed! [:^)

    I’m not sure if “Polarik” has ever claimed this, but “Beckwith” of ObamaFiles has: The microfiche / microfilms of the newspaper birth listings are fakes, too! Imagine the enormous effort to get some unexposed 1960’s film stock, photograph an alteration of the original, track down all the library copies of the original, and replace them with the forgeries! Alleging superhuman competence at the same time as incredible stupidity is a hallmark of conspiracy fantasies.

  77. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2009 at 11:14 pm #

    Well, we know now what the advertising budget is for:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/17107553/

    While I’m all for free speech, public lies make me angry.

  78. avatar
    misha July 7, 2009 at 3:32 am #

    “If Stanley had been stranded in Kenya, she would have given birth in Nairobi”

    Also, Nairobi had electricity. She would never consent to give birth in stone age conditions.

    None of the birthers’ scenarios has a modicum of sense, which is why I concur they are clinically insane.

    Obama has nerves of steel to put up with the smears during his campaign.

  79. avatar
    misha July 7, 2009 at 3:35 am #

    “I hear Orly Taitz has some expertise in service of federal lawsuits.”

    Yeah, she knows how to drill holes in the paper.

  80. avatar
    SvenMagnussen July 7, 2009 at 6:25 am #

    “Someone shouted out my name. The mask dropped to my side, and with it my daydream, and I saw my grandparents again standing there, waving almost frantically now. This time I waved back; and then, without thinking, I brought the mask again up to my face, swaying my head in an odd little dance. My grandparents laughed and pointed at me and waved some more until the customs official finally tapped me on the shoulder and asked me if I was an American. I nodded and handed him my passport.

    “Go ahead,” he said, and told the Chinese family to step to one side.”

    Apparently, Bill Ayers is quite the fiction writer.

  81. avatar
    NBC July 7, 2009 at 9:20 am #

    Well, you’re not bad either.

    Funny though how everything in your world has to be a conspiracy since the truth is too hard to accept. Must be comforting when imagination can replace facts, logic and reason?

  82. avatar
    richCares July 7, 2009 at 9:33 am #

    Sven thinks global warming is a hoax, he doesn’t accept evolution (he says “I didn’t come from no monkey”), he swears that the earth is only 6000 yrs old plus he believes in talking snakes. So don’t expect him to make a logical argument, will never happen. When faced with facts his brain says “no compute”.

  83. avatar
    Black Lion July 7, 2009 at 10:42 am #

    Remember Sven was the birthers which came up with the fantasy theory called “diplomatic consular passport”, in which explains why President Obama was able to travel as a Senator and my personal favorite “Indonesian refugee status” theory which explained how a young Obama, abandoned by his mother, was able to leave Indonesia and go back to Hawaii. So he knows a lot about fantasy.

  84. avatar
    misha July 7, 2009 at 11:27 am #

    Sven would be a good science fiction writer. He would just need an editor to smooth out his turgid prose.

  85. avatar
    Black Lion July 7, 2009 at 3:56 pm #

    Also WND is making a big deal out of the fact that the hospital won’t at least confirm Obama’s birth…Of course that is why below….

    Protected Health Information. The Privacy Rule protects all “individually identifiable health information” held or transmitted by a covered entity or its business associate, in any form or media, whether electronic, paper, or oral. The Privacy Rule calls this information “protected health information (PHI).”12
    “Individually identifiable health information” is information, including demographic data, that relates to:
    the individual’s past, present or future physical or mental health or condition,
    the provision of health care to the individual, or
    the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to the individual,
    and that identifies the individual or for which there is a reasonable basis to believe it can be used to identify the individual.13 Individually identifiable health information includes many common identifiers (e.g., name, address, birth date, Social Security Number).
    The Privacy Rule excludes from protected health information employment records that a covered entity maintains in its capacity as an employer and education and certain other records

    http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/summary/index.html